SH Archive Ancient WW2 airplanes discovered in Greenland

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KorbenDallas
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2020-02-16 03:15:11
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KD Archive

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How Old is the Ice Sheet?
This is not really about them airplanes, but they did contribute. On 15 July 1942, due to poor weather and limited visibility, six P-38 fighters of 94th Fighter Squadron/1st FG and two B-17 bombers of a bombardment squadron were forced to return to Greenland en route to the British Isles during Operation Bolero. The aircraft were forced to make emergency landings on the ice field. All the crew members were subsequently rescued. However, Glacier Girl, along with the unit's five other fighters and the two B-17s, were eventually buried under 268 feet (82 m) of snow and ice that had built up over the ensuing decades.

I was gonna add this info to our Greenland under-ice Canals thread, but figured it was worthy of its own thread. After all people need to know the scale of lies hey consume. Whoever e-mailed me the below links, thank you very much. I think stuff like that puts a serious dent into all this ice dating, and exposes our pseudo-scientists for who they truly are.


In July 1942, the "Lost Squadron," a unit consisting of two B-17 bomber planes and six P-38 fighters, landed on a remote Greenlandic glacier. Over the decades, the ever-shifting ice sheets of Greenland buried the aircraft, known as the Lost Squadron, under between 250 and 300 feet of ice.

ice-greenland.jpg

Fifty years later, in 1992, one of the P-38s was extracted from the ice and restored to flying condition: the infamous Glacier Girl.
airplanes-1.jpg

A little bit of Googling brought me to the below webpage published in 1992. It contains some information which I think could be relative to our forum research.
It is not uncommon to read that ice cores from the polar regions contain records of climatic change from the distant past. Research teams from the United States, the Soviet Union, Denmark, and France have bored holes over a mile deep into the ice near the poles and removed samples for analysis in their laboratories.
  • Based on flow models, the variation of oxygen isotopes, the concentration of carbon dioxide in trapped air bubbles, the presence of oxygen isotopes, acid concentrations, and particulates, they believe the lowest layers of the ice sheets were laid down over 160,000 years ago. Annual oscillations of such quantities are often evident in the record.
  • Are these records in the ice legitimate? Do they cause a problem for the recent-creation model of earth history? What are we to make of these data? This article will show that the great ages reported for the bottom layers of ice sheets depend on assumed models of past climate and are not the result of direct counting of layers.
  • Continue reading...


KD: Based on the information provided in the above Ice Core link we end up with some rather interesting mathematics. And these mathematics allow for some major questioning of the narrative.

Ice-core-samples-age-a-problem-for-evolution.jpg
  • Planes were discovered in 1988 under ~250 feet of ice
  • Planes landed 46 years prior to being found
  • 250 feet / 46 years = 5.4 feet of ice per year
  • 4,000 or 5,000 feet of average Greenland Ice thickness / 5.4 feet per year = 740 to 925 years old
So basically we end up with this approximation where the age of the ice sheet in Greenland is between 740 and 925 years old. It is obviously a rough estimate, for the rate of ice accumulation could be much greater during the so-called Little Ice Age.
  • The Little Ice Age was a period of cooling that occurred after the Medieval Warm Period. Although it was not a true ice age, the term was introduced into scientific literature by François E. Matthes in 1939. It has been conventionally defined as a period extending from the 16th to the 19th centuries, but some experts prefer an alternative timespan from about 1300 to about 1850.
From this perspective, should we really be surprised seeing maps similar to the ones shown in the thread below?
Note: This OP was recovered from the Maxine archive.
Note: Archived SH.org replies to this OP: Ancient WW2 airplanes discovered in Greenland
 

luddite

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That is a lot of weight on top of this poor plane.

Assuming that the plane wingspan and length are correct in Lockheed P-38 Lightning - Wikipedia (
  • Length: 37 ft 10 in (11.53 m)
  • Wingspan: 52 ft 0 in (15.85 m)
And a cubit foot of ice weighs 57.2 pounds and we have 268 ft of ice.... well let's do the math.

Plane area = L x W = 1924ft
Ice sheet weight = A x 57.2 = 110,052.8 pounds or 55 tons.

I think that this plane would be flattened into a pancake...

NaueNueSPuGNdlYRIZVH.gif
 

TatarKhan

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(1) There is a process called summer ice at the polar caps, meaning the ice who lasts from the winter well into the summer months. As KD in the old post said: "On 15 July 1942, due to poor weather and limited visibility, six P-38 fighters of 94th Fighter Squadron/1st FG and two B-17 bombers of a bombardment squadron were forced to return to Greenland en route to the British Isles during Operation Bolero."

So the aircraft landed in the summer (meaning less ice / melted winter ice), then winter struck and the plane got frozen over by the new freezing ice. Through this process it probably would have been crushed because it would have been already been frozen (inside and outside) becoming a part of the shelf (instead of being full of air and being crushed).

The summer/winter freezing process can be seen in some reconstructions by National Geographic: NG

(2) A glacier is usually moving (google glacier sliding). That means the ice masses regenerate themselves over time and therefore the timing/age confirmation of a glacier (at least in terms of depth) is not accurately possible. The movement/melting/gains/loss of ice is also very variable in a glacier, the non-moving ice cap on the other hand doesn't move, so one can guess based on mathematical models for temperature/net melting/net gain the chronological time of several ice sheets.

Short: not-moving ice cap ≠ a glacier

I quote: "Glaciers can slide because ice melts under pressure, resulting in a film of water at the ice-bed interface. This can facilitate decoupling and enhance fast ice flow. If the glacier bed is rough, with many bumps and obstacles, this increases melting and ice flow. This process is known as regelation. (...)

Glaciers do not just flow in a steady state, however. We have cold-based glaciers, which have little flow velocity; polythermal glaciers, which are partly frozen to their bed; wet-based glaciers which have sheet flow (as is described in the above sections); ice streams, which have very rapid flow velocities; and surging glaciers, which have periods of rapid flow separated by quiescent periods of slow flow. The key differences in temperate glacier flow is summarised in the table below. Each of these different flow regimes results in a set of different and diagnostic glacial landforms."

Source: antarcticglaciers.org

fs20093046_fig03.png

Source: antarticglaciers

So my thesis: The plane got completely frozen inside out becoming a part of the shelf instead of a obstacle. Finally over the time the glacier moved (with which velocity I don't know, but if you look at the glacier website, there are several types of moving archetypes) and the planes disappeared under the newly frozen ice masses, the old ice masses from behind and the newly frozen ice masses from the source/beginning of the glacier. In the winter of 1942 (or a few winters later) the planes would have been completely disappeared.
 
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