Cannibalism in humans, Great Apes, Prion diseases, and mRNA therapy

usselo

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Here is an interesting angle called Bicameralism that might dovetail connecting the cannibalistic murky past. Huge numbers of people in many cultures around 700 BC and earlier lived as high capacity schizophrenics (Jaynes theory). Controlling political/social whisperings originated the right hemisphere and transmitted into the conscious/sentient everyday left hemisphere.


I'm keen to hear arguments for and against the "humans-as-product/Church-as-Original-Butcher" propositions. For example, in Mud Flood - Hidden History of the Church, Obsidian Kate's Youtube channel shows the word 'church' as meaning 'a gathering of people'. That - and the rest of that fascinating video - offers a view of the older church as a technological marvel - and benign.

Which, obviously, is not aligned with my proposition that the word 'church' is derived from 'charcuterie'.

However, in Words, buried in Time, the channel notes the mainstream derivation of the word 'church' from 'kirk', then links 'kirk' with the goddess Kirke/Circe. Who is:
skilled in the magic of transmutation, illusion and necromancy... famed for turning her enemies into animals, notably pigs.
I'll take that as evidence in favour of the 'Church as butcher of long-pig' proposition. :)

In the post you quoted, I referenced the US TV series 'Westworld' because it very plausibly depicts us. The biggest difference seemingly being that neither Westworld's guests nor its management eat the hosts. (And, arguably, both are more decent than ours.) A Westworld reviewer claimed the series was primarily about bicameralism: https://www.thecut.com/2016/12/how-bicameralism-helps-explain-westworld.html.

Perhaps bicameralism is some aspect of the "loyalty-loop" programmed into humans. I could go on about how bicameralism fits with that and how it doesn't. But I don't want to wear my fingers out - you can't get replacement parts for my model.

So, having identified a possible bicameralism angle, I'm interested in where you take it. What is the evidence? What thoughts spring from thinking through possible implications of the bicameralism angle?
 
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push4more

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I'm keen to hear arguments for and against the "humans-as-product/Church-as-Original-Butcher" propositions. For example, in Mud Flood - Hidden History of the Church, Obsidian Kate's Youtube channel shows the word 'church' as meaning 'a gathering of people'. That - and the rest of that fascinating video - offers a view of the older church as benign and a technological marvel.

Which, obviously, is not aligned with my proposition that the word 'church' is derived from 'charcuterie'.

However, in Words, buried in Time, the channel notes the mainstream derivation of the word 'church' from 'kirk', then links 'kirk' with the goddess Kirke/Circe. Who is:


I'll take that as evidence in favour of the 'Church as butcher of long-pig' proposition. :)

In the post you quoted, I referenced the US TV series 'Westworld' because it very plausibly depicts us. The biggest difference seemingly being that neither Westworld's guests nor its management eat the hosts. (And, arguably, both are more decent than ours.) A Westworld reviewer claimed the series was primarily about bicameralism: https://www.thecut.com/2016/12/how-bicameralism-helps-explain-westworld.html.

Perhaps bicameralism is some aspect of the "loyalty-loop" programmed into humans. I could go on about how bicameralism fits with that and how it doesn't. But I don't want to wear my fingers out - you can't get replacement parts for my model.

So, having identified a possible bicameralism angle, I'm interested in where you take it. What is the evidence? What thoughts spring from thinking through possible implications of the bicameralism angle?

I will angle more a couple of days.
 

push4more

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I will angle more a couple of days.
My take is bicameralism is a continuum from near automatons in prehistory to today where many people seek their "shoulder angel" when times get tough. Maybe bicameralism still resides dormant inside our evanescent highly localized invisible brain cells (100,000 or so). Most of the time our "executive" corrals our shoulder angel if our angel gets out of line.

Pre-800BC or so the shoulder angel was an omnipresent taskmaster (priestly/royal castes) creating innumerable ghastly tasks. Religions were created to vanquish bicameralism. It might have taken thousands of years.
 

usselo

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My take is bicameralism is a continuum from near automatons in prehistory to today where many people seek their "shoulder angel" when times get tough.
That seems a very reasonable conjecture to me. Ie that bicameralism is a waypoint on the way from being automata to being independently intelligent (or perhaps 'capable of free thought').

We can try to figure out where we are on that continuum. My impression that we are still more or less at the bicameralism stage. Not, unfortunately, much beyond it.

What do others think?

Today's 'angels' AKA 'messengers of God' might be the media. God is the government, or WHO-like supra-national organizations, and media-messengers whisper the sayings of its various public servants/experts into the ears of the hoi polloi.

This scenarios explains why so much of what seems to be people's thoughts is actually just repetition of what people saw on TV, heard on the radio, or read in the paper or the Internet.

Religions were created to vanquish bicameralism.
Could be, couldn't it. How would religion work as a mechanism for vanquishing bicameralism?

My current guess at what religion is for, is slightly different. It's that religions were created partly to:

1. Manage the physical structures in which prey were reared, corralled, butchered and usually eaten.

2. Manage the processes required to keep operations running smoothly. And,

3. To identify new profit opportunities.

For example, line managers were needed to detect and patch over the cognitive disonnance experienced by increasingly aware prey. The prey needed plausible explanations for why their playmates were disappearing. And for why they were being 'anchored' in cells near or beneath marketplaces three days before market day. Three days that would give prey time to purge bowel and bladder and emerge ready-to-rinse-and-eat.

Perhaps the cells were marked by a cross or blocked with a heavy, round stone - a stone fitted with a cross to help move it out of the way on market day.

Perhaps the prey were rinsed ready for sale and sometimes even bound in cloth, the invention of paper still being centuries away.

Perhaps the way you explain the sight of this to an uneducated child would be as a story of sin and redemption...

Perhaps that is why the first link says 'iconoclasts' destroyed around 10,000 of 12,000 or so crosses.

But this whole notion is ludicrous unless management were also breeding replacement prey. Some of them would have had to 'go forth and multiply'. How would religion play a part in that?

Perhaps by running breeding centres.

That would explain the look, and ecclesiastic locations, of sheela-na-gigs.

Think as the cannibalistic Morlocks ruling the Eloi fodder, creating H.G. Wells book, "The Time Machine".

The Time Machine
Yes indeed. And there is evidence of Eloi. The image below is from page 9 of Images of Lust - Sexual Carvings on Medieval Churches by Anthony Weir and James Jerman.

sheela-na-gig-page-9-images-of-lust.png
Its caption says:
A sheela-na-gig from Easthorpe Church, Essex (now in Colchester Museum); about 30cm (12in) high by 23cm (9in) broad. The word 'ELUI' defies explanation.
 
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push4more

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That seems a very reasonable conjecture to me. Ie that bicameralism is a waypoint on the way from being automata to being independently intelligent (or perhaps 'capable of free thought').

We can try to figure out where we are on that continuum. My impression that we are still more or less at the bicameralism stage. Not, unfortunately, much beyond it.

What do others think?

Today's 'angels' AKA 'messengers of God' might be the media. Where God is the government or supra-national organization and its media-messengers whisper the sayings of its various public servants/experts into the ears of the hoi polloi.

That would explain why so much of what seems to be people's thoughts is actually just repetition of what people saw on TV, heard on the radio, or read in the paper, or the Internet.



Could be, couldn't it. How would religion work as a mechanism for vanquishing bicameralism?

My current guess at what religion is for, is slightly different. It's that religions were created partly to:

1. Manage the physical structures in which prey were reared, corralled, and likely butchered.

2. Manage the processes required to keep operations running smoothly. And,

3. To identify new profit opportunities.

For example, line managers were needed to detect and patch over the cognitive disonnance experienced by increasingly aware prey. The prey needed plausible explanations for why their playmates were disappearing. And for why they were being 'anchored' in cells near or beneath marketplaces three days before market day. Three days that would give prey time to purge bowel and bladder and emerge ready-to-rinse-and-eat.

Perhaps the cells were marked by a cross or blocked with a heavy, round stone - a stone fitted with a cross to help move it out of the way on market day.

Perhaps the prey were rinsed ready for sale and sometimes even bound in cloth, the invention of paper still being centuries away.

Perhaps the way you explain the sight of this to an uneducated child would be as a story of sin and redemption...

Perhaps that is why the first link says 'iconoclasts' destroyed around 10,000 of them.

But this whole notion is ludicrous unless management were also breeding replacement prey. Some of them would have had to 'go forth and multiply'. How would religion play a part in that?

Perhaps by running breeding centres.

That would explain the look and ecclesiastic locations of sheela-na-gigs.



Yes indeed. And there is evidence of Eloi. The image below is from page 9 of Images of Lust - Sexual Carvings on Medieval Churches by Anthony Weir and James Jerman.
Its caption says:
Isn't one of the main cannibalistic traces being scratched and sliced "bone". Are there significant archeological digs? Where?
 

usselo

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Isn't one of the main cannibalistic traces being scratched and sliced "bone". Are there significant archeological digs? Where?
I understand cut marks are interpreted as signs of butchery. Simon May has described evidence of cut marks in infants at Hambledon, UK: https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/42131908.pdf

Though if you take a journey through the Internet's images of cannibalism, you often find babies/young children being eaten whole and starting with their fingers being sucked/chewed off first. So, no cut marks because no cutlery. Savages!

I once asked an archaeologist who specialises in infanticide if there was a lot of it and what were the reasons for it. They said there is tons of evidence of infanticide, and that unwanted pregnancy was the main theory but that this theory was controversial for gender politics reasons and that some aspects of the finds didn't seem to fit. Eg many baby/infant remains are found in clusters in sewers/culverts, which seems a poor fit for the theory of the occasional unwanted birth being hidden.

If you go searching for 'infanticide in roman britain' and its variants, you do find archaeologists seem caught up interpreting it all from a very modern perspective. Perhaps this explains why the potential for a bigger picture is being missed.

At the time I asked these questions, I was still in the 'Duh, there were comets' paradigm so I didn't think to raise the two taboo questions:

1. Could these babies have been cannibalised?

2. Could these babies have been eaten by non-human entities?

One can imagine the fuse-blowing potential of posing such out of the box questions to mainstream archaeologists. :)

Perhaps I could squeeze them into modern sensibilities by asking:

1. Could males have cannibalised these babies during domestic violence rituals?

2. Could these babies have been eaten by toxic male, non-human entities?

Anyway, joking aside... anyone who investigates this area encounters taboos. One taboo could be that that some sites seem to be more or less excavation-proof. Also, anyone who suspects the church of toxic charcuterie may have also noticed that in Britain, the religious sites likely to have been associated with it have often been quite thoroughly destroyed. So much so that you have to wonder what destroyed them and if they were replaced by some other system. But these are taboo thoughts. Don't go there.

If you know of specific sites where evidence has been found, please do share.
 
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push4more

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I understand cut marks are interpreted as signs of butchery. Simon May has described evidence of cut marks in infants at Hambledon, UK: https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/42131908.pdf

Though if you take a journey through the Internet's images of cannibalism, you often find babies/young children being eaten whole and starting with their fingers being sucked/chewed off first. So, no cutlery. Savages!

I once asked an archaeologist who specialises in infanticide if there was a lot of it and what were the reasons for it. They said there is tons of evidence of infanticide, and that unwanted pregnancy was the main theory but that this theory was controversial for gender politics reasons and that some aspects of the finds didn't seem to fit. Eg many baby/infant remains are found in clusters in sewers/culverts, which seems a poor fit for the theory of the occasional unwanted birth being hidden.

If you go searching for 'infanticide in roman britain', and its variants, you do find the archaeologists seem caught up interpreting it all from a very modern perspective. Perhaps this explains why the potential for the bigger picture is being missed.

At the time I asked these questions, I was still in the 'Duh, there were comets' paradigm so I didn't think to raise the two taboo questions:

1. Could these babies have been cannibalised?

2. Could these babies have been eaten by non-human entities?

One can imagine the fuse-blowing potential of posing such out of the box questions to mainstream archaeologists. :)

Perhaps I could squeeze them into modern sensibilities by asking:

1. Could males have cannibalised these babies during domestic violence rituals?

2. Could these babies have been eaten by toxic male, non-human entities?

Anyway, joking aside... anyone who investigates this area encounters taboos. One taboo could be that that some sites seem to be more or less excavation-proof. Another anyone who suspects the church of toxic charcuterie is likely to have noticed that British sites likely to have been associated with it have largely been quite thoroughly destroyed. So much so that you have to wonder what destroyed them and if they were replaced by some other system. But those are taboo thoughts. Don't go there.

If you know of specific sites where evidence has been found, please do share.

Perhaps many pagan bone shrines over the millennia were very effectively deboned and enshrined and enveloped by Christian and Islamic and Buddhist and Hindu and..... shrines.
 
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