Evidence humans were created and traded as slaves, food, entertainment and material resources (IHASFEMR)

[usselo]

Splitting this discussion from Vagabond's Cannibalism in humans, Great Apes, Prion diseases, and mRNA therapy so that thread can recover its original focus on: cannibalism/covid vaccines -> prions -> zombies.

This thread will focus on helping people identify, present and discuss evidence that humans were created - and traded - as intelligent slaves, food, entertainment and as bio-factories to produce raw and refined materials.

As the concept is <cough> a bit of a mouthful, I've labelled it 'IHASFEMR', short for 'Intelligent Humans as Slaves, Food, Entertainment, and Material Resources'.

IHASFEMR is memorably close to 'I Has Femur' - femurs apparently having been a popular SKU - judging by the quantities of them warehoused in crypts and ossuaries.

And the DevOps folks will like it.

To get the pre-split background to this thread, read the posts from Vagabond's thread. They introduce images, evidence, interpretations of the evidence from a IHASFEMR perspective.

Reply to Sapiot:

I just realized this, and it ties in with the terminology of the nunneries being for growing the next batch for harvest: The nuns are called "sister", and the priests are called "father". Let that sink in. Maybe the cherub was also because some cattle couldn't live past a few years old due to genetic defects caused by inbreeding.

Another good catch! Can you be more explicit about what you are thinking with regard to cherubs? Are you thinking perhaps they were automatically selected into the food market if born deformed or looked unlikely to grow up fit for slave work, entertainment? As opposed to being bred for food or bred to supply famine markets? Or other?

It is a useful idea to follow up on. There are clues that this sort of product selection may have been so normal that it was codified. Specific examples that come to mind are:

1. Babies born in a marriage versus babies born outside of marriage (the latter being taken into various forms of 'care', as discussed earlier)

2. Sheela-na-gig imagery. I don't want to get into the details just here because there is a lot to sort out with the thread-split. But Sheela-na-gig images are worth looking at with the IHASFEMR model in mind and an awareness of the practice of 'placentophagy'.

3. In farm management as it is conventionally understood, farmers select out male poultry for slaughtering ASAP after birth. That's the job of 'chicken sexers'. I think cattle farmers may do something similar with beef. But I'm not sure.

Picking up the unaddressed question in the Cannibalism in humans, Great Apes, Prion diseases, and mRNA therapy post about crypts as depots for bone consumers:

How did so many bones come to be stacked in orderly piles in three known English church crypts, and perhaps another 65 or more lost crypts?

Specifically, how did human bones come to be stacked under churches without people realising or at least remembering the extent of it?

To explore answers to this question we need a chronology, though a chronology is difficult to establish because the issue we're investigating is apparently kept secret. But let's give it a go...

As far as I can tell so far, humans started out being openly slaughtered - usually as infants or children - wherever it was expedient to do so. In the field and on the building site. However, there were also special purpose facilities with better arrangements for collecting blood. I suspect blood may be more useful in electrical/magnetic technology than we know but that is mere intuition at this stage. Regardless, we know those facilities as 'communal toilets'. Again, this was open slaughter. Your hands were tied together in the prey/prayer position and you began your journey to 'Elysia' or Heaven' or whatever.

It's a shame Pavel Verkhov AKA Alexander Alekseev AKA kbogam chose to demonstrate a human slaughter using curvaceous, near-naked young women. In my opinion, he might better have caught the head-trapping functionality of communal toilets' design if he had modelled it using three to 12 year olds. Regardless, the images in his page show how communal toilets might have been used as the halal human slaughterhouses some of us suspect they really were.

​

When that started I can't say. But as the market for human products developed into a demand for human slaves, so developed a demand for controlled human sentience. Ie, reasoning abilities coupled with automatic safety circuits, such as credulity towards authority and obedience. These are hard-coded as the 'loyalty loop'. We see them operating all around us.

This new product offer was people like us, created for a market that could use people and products like us. IHASFEMR. My guess is that IHASFEMR hit the market more or less around what we call 1,000 AD.

Seemingly, these people - people like us - did realise what was being done to them and during the period from around 1100 to around 1530 were unhappy about it (see under-documented "Peasant's Revolts"). Around 1530, reforming events occurred. Perhaps these events followed an unsatisfactory facilities inspection by customer representatives or 'higher ups'. The events seem to have been one or more mudfloods, at which time the crypts were largely covered up, and the whole thing later re-labelled as 'The Reformation'.

However, the trade in human food and human parts carried on in secret. Crypt archaeology shows it was already physically underground to some extent, but it seems to have diversified from a village phenomenon into an extensive, secret underground - and therefore expensive to build - urban phenomenon. Possibly it was extended from 1790 or so onwards. The original rural infrastructure also seems to have been secretly extended, though whether that was before 1790-ish, or after, or throughout the process, is difficult to assess.

The key point of this chronology is that we are looking at phased expansion over many centuries of a secret physical infrastructure. That means we cannot be entirely sure of date of construction or date of usage. However, there is ample evidence of usage and of attempts to dismiss efforts to expose this infrastructure. We can interpret the politics of the situation - which is our situation - accordingly.

So, returning to the question: How was it hidden? We started with former Lincoln Cathedral Dean, the Rev Brandon Jackson, who wasn't alone in believing (quoting The Biblical ‘Abomination of Desolation’ Prophecy Enacted at Lincoln Cathedral? - World Mysteries Blog):

a battle of good and evil centred on the ancient Minster and then went on to ask that he close the Cathedral for six months for it to be exorcised by prayers.

Jackson wasn't alone because:

The Telegraph carrying a report of a ‘swirling evil’ theory that had been repeated by Deans and Provosts at their annual April conference that year (1995), and also told of a Dean of another Cathedral who said that Lincoln Cathedral was one of the most evil places he had been in.

And here's a quote from Susanna O'Neill's Lincolnshire Folklore:

The Devil must have been a regular visitor to the cathedral, as there is a legend connected to the tomb of St Hugh. The belief was that when you closed your eyes to pray, you were in danger of the Devil coming up behind you, unseen, and so when you knelt to pray at St Hugh’s shrine there was a shallow dip containing salt which you could take and throw over your left shoulder to blind his approach

Odd to worry about the Devil while being prey praying to the saint at that very saint's own cathedral. Unless the Church was hiding something.

Here's an elevation and plan of the crypt beneath the east end of St Mary's Church, Burwell, Cambridgeshire:

Crypt of St Mary's Church, Burwell, Cambridgeshire
​

A vestry (dressing room) or an anchorite cell? No-one knows. No-one knows why this sub-structure was built and who - or what - lived down there. But per https://www.british-history.ac.uk/rchme/cambs/vol2/pp18-47, it's got a fireplace and its own stone 'altar'. Scaled from the plan by me, using a cheap plastic vernier gauge, that altar measures nearly 7 feet by 4 feet.

Quite the mortuary slab.

This next image is ripped from an archaeologist's report - Charnel practices in medieval England: new perspectives - on Holy Trinity Church, Rothwell, Northamptonshire, which an earlier post highlighted as an example of a bone depot possibly supplying mills like the Narborough bone mill.

Cutaway view of Holy Trinity Church showing slot that links the altar to the bone crypt​

Modern archaeologists - equipped with excellent reasoning abilities coupled with equally excellent automatic safety circuits - interpret the slot as the means by which old timers enabled orderly stacks of bones to listen, along with the living, to masses.

Sounds a bit far-fetched to me.

The above examples are of infrastructure that has been hidden, or at least discretely explained away, since around 1530. Now we turn to examples from Britain's later urban expansion. These examples blend old - such as the above - with an expansion into distribution tunnels hidden beneath urban settings, possibly from around 1790. There is so much of it, I will switch primarily to links. Starting with evidence that existing church tunnels and crypts were:

1. Blocked up, and
2. Denied.

There are tunnels under Stamford (England). See Secrets of Stamford School and Secret tunnels.

"No", says a poster: "just basements"

From: Ecclesiastical Buildings | British History Online about All Saints Church, Stamford:

In 1857, a subterranean compartment, 9 ft. 6 ins. wide and 12 ft. high, with a quadripartite vault, and passages on S. and W., 6 ft. wide and 7 ft. high, was found within the churchyard on the N. side of the church, but the precise location is not known.

From the same https://www.british-history.ac.uk/rchme/stamford/pp6-36, this time about St Michael's Church, Stamford:

Beneath the E. end of the church a narrow crypt running N. and S., and reached by the N.E. stair, has eight segmental vaults on the E. and three on the W., each constructed of stone and brick; the central opening on the W. has a modern blocking and may have led to a passage axial with the church.

A crypt under the tower, contemporary with the church, has stone walls. On the E. a round-headed archway with circular responds and stiff-leaf capitals is blocked by a later brick apse (apse = curved/angled wall).

Moving a few miles north to Newark (England)... From: Lead or Rumour info - - Newark tunnel 'legend' to be investigated | Leads, Rumours and News:

There's always a tunnel between the church, the manor and the pub, even if there was no reason, and suitable roads.

And, quoting historian Jim Wishart from Newark tunnel 'legend' to be investigated:

They could possibly link the castle, the church and the old chantry.

And:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5AOt92FXpE

and
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPZvI_K2UhM

But no, there are no tunnels under Newark. See Radar searches fail to find town tunnel evidence.

They are just 'extended cellars'. See Newark tunnels search will continue.

There are tunnels under Gainsborough (England). See Gainsborough Lincolnshire and carefully read the comments by poster LincsRanger64, whose real name - I think - was Paul Kemp.

One comment in that Gainsborough link is:

there was a tunnel between the Old Hall and Parish Church... the first cenotaph seems to have fallen into it

which brings to mind an earlier discussion about monuments having been removed from Grant's Park, Everton, Liverpool in The Williamson Tunnels, Liverpool, UK. The fear was they would fall into caverns beneath.

"But no", say several posters: "they're just cellars".

In Bury St Edmunds, tunnels cause road collapses. See Gaping 12ft hole in road could be underground tunnel.

Just a folk myth, counters Bury historian Clive Paine:

There is a prevailing folk myth that Bury is filled with tunnels that were used by monks to get from one place to another

There are tunnels under Taunton (England). See Underground mystery: Do you know about Taunton's tunnels?

But a very confident-sounding commenter says:

It's just relief and drainage, nothing more.

Drainage? Presumably just like the very well documented 'drainage' tunnels under Exeter: Exeter’s Underground Passages: A Hidden World of Medieval Engineering

There are tunnels under Hull (England). See Mysterious crates from the "Land of Green Ginger" found buried in secret cavern.

And tunnels under Nottingham (England):
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu_Ef7g8yOE

And there are tunnels under Derby (England). See The secret tunnels under a city that council bosses don't want you to see:

...the Dolphin pub's landlord Richard Felix... discovered a tunnel in 2009... It is thought that through that passage grave robbers would deliver bodies to a doctor who once lived in the building, which dates back to 1530.

And there are tunnels under Grantham, (England). See Grantham underground - more pictures - Grantham Matters.

Says a commenter:

tunnels no; cellars yes

That's right, confirms a local historian in ‘Are there tunnels under Grantham?’ asks Civic Society’s Ruth Crook:

Not tunnels, just cellars,

...with meat hooks.

...and stone stairs that go nowhere.

(If the original disappears, see this post's attached file: 'www-granthamjournal...' PDF)

I would have liked to include links to tunnels under Hertford. However, people who publicise Hertford's tunnels receive death threats like this:

Those responsible had no business publicising any of the Templar tunnels, disused or otherwise. They will be dealt with. Anybody intending to find out more, let alone discover hidden areas of the labyrinth, should check their life insurance policy very carefully indeed.

So we won't discuss Hertford's tunnels - even though Hertford is the original source of Britain's finest bone china - due to its very high bone content.

Two of the guys cited in this post - Pavel Verkhov and Paul Kemp - died unexpectedly and young, shortly after publicising their parts of this story. Although we can't know if there was a link, as a nod to them, this clip is from the film version of David Mitchell's Cloud Atlas:

Download Video​

 

[Citezenship]

Thanks usselo, or should I say uccella.

Many things to think about here, none of them palatable.

Thanks for the kbogam links.

When re-furbing a basement in the oldest part of Bristol we knocked in one of the arches at the end of the cellar only to discover that the tunnels extended far longer than our courage would allow us to wander, very dark, not only in lack of lighting but also mood.

These tunnels ran from underneath the aptly named "hatchet" pub) oldest in Bristol to at least the hippodrome and beyond and it is rumoured that they were the quarters for the slaves brought in through Bristol harbour, maybe it is where they were quartered.

There are also many tunnels with the same construction techniques as the Williamson tunnels underneath the Bristol downs, they are very big and just as it happens there is an old public convenience at it's entrance, the old ceramic art deco type...

Also in the downs is the St Vincents cave, or giants cave, sat right on top of the cave is the Clifton observatory, affectionately know as "snuff mils", it used to mean something different back then but as we know it is also slang for death.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clifton_Observatory
I am sure these are just mere coincidences.

By the way i am never going into a public convenience ever again.

Oh and the vid has no sound in the browser on mac os but it has when downloaded.

 

[solarbard]

Yeah, this feels TOO true. I might need to take a break from this site.

 

[Oracle]

I think cattle farmers may do something similar with beef. But I'm not sure.

The Steers (castrated males) are the ones kept for beef production in the breeds grown for meat,the females are generally kept for breeders.
In Dairy of course, the reverse holds true for importance in food production.
Edit to add: As an aside,something that has changed over the last twenty years with regard to meat production is the age at which beasts are slaughtered.Try to buy beef that's from an animal over two years now. And mutton has completely disappeared ( In Australia anyway) as sheep slaughtered for domestic consumption nowadays rarely are beyond 12 months old and most chicken sold in the shops is less than 12 weeks old. I assume this is done for economical reasons i.e. Less feed and higher turnover.

It's a shame Pavel Verkhov AKA Alexander Alekseev AKA kbogam chose to demonstrate a human slaughter using curvaceous, near-naked young women.

Heavens, that was some visual journey ( I didn't translate the text). I haven't come across that theory before.

But as the market for human products developed into a demand for human slaves, so developed a demand for controlled human sentience. Ie, reasoning abilities coupled with automatic safety circuits, such as credulity towards authority and obedience. These are hard-coded as the 'loyalty loop'. We see them operating all around us.

I came across this theory the other day about a subset of incarnations termed "backfill people" which would fill the bill for your loyalty loop aka NPCs.

What are backfill people?​

Needler has described how every entity within the multiverse has two roles to play:

1. To experience, learn and evolve through all the different universal environments.
2. To perpetuate the underlying structure of the multiverse from a local perspective.

Most (92%) humans belong to the higher energetic genre. Our job is to explore and ascend the frequencies and to become self-aware, while we incarnate in the physical universe. Most of us have had hundreds or thousands of lifetimes in a human vehicle to evolve on Earth.

• About 8% of the human population used to be made of “backfill people,” who don’t usually incarnate on Earth, because their soul has a lesser content of sentient energies (1.5% sentience per a backfill person vs. 2.5% sentience per most humans).
• In May 2020, Needler said that about 41% of the population are backfill people (mostly in the western world).
• They are biologically identical to other human beings. They use the same vehicle we do.

But typically this is their first lifetime on Earth. It’s also the first time they have been given individualized free will, not collective will. They can decide things for themselves.

What Are Backfill People? - Big Picture Questions

the crypt beneath the east end of St Mary's Church, Burwell, Cambridgeshire:

While agreeing with your suspicions with regard to the uses over the centuries of the tunnel networks,these rooms under towers may have originally been part of an atmospheric energy capture system.
Excellent thread, and you've unearthed some amazing articles. I don't think this was our original reason for creation though,but one used and continued by the dark entities of our world and their minions for centuries. Thanks for continuing this worthy discussion here.

quarters for the slaves brought in through Bristol harbour, maybe it is where they were quartered.

You've put a whole new view of the term slave quarters in front of me!

Yeah, this feels TOO true. I might need to take a break from this site

ha,ha. Yes I have to do that every now and then.Sometimes there's just too much information to be gained here!

*edited in two left out words.

 

[usselo]

Yeah, this feels TOO true. I might need to take a break from this site.

I know.

I think the visible part of our roadmap looks something like this:

Stage 1. Seeing the evidence
Stage 2. Understanding the evidence
Stage 3. Grief (which has its own stages)
Stage 4. Gratitude

Gratitude is there because if you make this horror story go away, we go away.

We exist because of it.

Once you get to gratitude, you have reached a rare form of maturity. My guess is that discovery of stage five starts somewhere around there.

If IHASFEMR is even close to correct, then we are being watched as we go through this process. Not, I think, with hunger (though that may still be there) but with curiousity and perhaps compassion.

I hope you don't leave the site. If you do take a break, it might be worth using some of the time to watch the British TV series Humans if you can access it, or the US TV series Westworld.

I'm sure those show and tells shows were made for a reason. As, I'm sure, was Cloud Atlas.

I've got quite a bit more evidence to post but I'm taking care about what I post and what I hold back. This because one needs time to digest the evidence. I want to see how that is going. Also, various groups may take offence. I don't have a clear picture of how that aspect of the situation looks.

I really appreciate your replies for what they are and because they give me a chance to separate new posts from previous posts.

Thanks usselo, or should I say uccella.

Many things to think about here, none of them palatable.

Thanks for the kbogam links.

When re-furbing a basement in the oldest part of Bristol we knocked in one of the arches at the end of the cellar only to discover that the tunnels extended far longer than our courage would allow us to wander, very dark, not only in lack of lighting but also mood.

These tunnels ran from underneath the aptly named "hatchet" pub) oldest in Bristol to at least the hippodrome and beyond and it is rumoured that they were the quarters for the slaves brought in through Bristol harbour, maybe it is where they were quartered.

There are also many tunnels with the same construction techniques as the Williamson tunnels underneath the Bristol downs, they are very big and just as it happens there is an old public convenience at it's entrance, the old ceramic art deco type...

Also in the downs is the St Vincents cave, or giants cave, sat right on top of the cave is the Clifton observatory, affectionately know as "snuff mils", it used to mean something different back then but as we know it is also slang for death.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clifton_Observatory
I am sure these are just mere coincidences.

By the way i am never going into a public convenience ever again.

Oh and the vid has no sound in the browser on mac os but it has when downloaded.

An evening spent with kbogam is never wasted.

Thanks so much for your additions. That pattern is seen over and over again around England (and I dare say the UK). It is the 'major port' variant of the pattern. Your 'discovered it while refurbing' is also a pattern.

Public conveniences are also part of an urban distribution pattern. As are coaching inns/hotels/pubs, assembly rooms, guildhalls, corn exchanges, general post offices, banks. As are 1960s ugly Arndale shopping centres.

Heavens, that was some visual journey ( I didn't translate the text). I haven't come across that theory before.

I came across this theory the other day about a subset of incarnations termed "backfill people" which would fill the bill for your loyalty loop aka NPCs.

What Are Backfill People? - Big Picture Questions

While agreeing with your suspicions with regard to the uses over the centuries of the tunnel networks,these rooms under towers may have originally been part of an atmospheric energy capture system.
Excellent thread, and you've unearthed some amazing articles. I don't think this was our original reason for creation though,but one used and continued by the dark entities of our world and their minions for centuries. Thanks for continuing this worthy discussion here.

Thanks Oracle! Yes, that is a visual journey for sure.

I think it is us who have loyalty loops, though anyone 'genuine' who is registered on SH.net is likely to be somewhere in the process of breaking out of theirs.

What I mean by 'loyalty loop' is - as an example - genuine people (ie not NPCs) who cannot see evidence of a problem with this or that authority. Instead, they tell those who can see a problem: "You're a conspiracy theorist." That is their loyalty loop in action. It is not related to their intelligence or reasoning ability. It is a trip-switch, a circuit breaker.

That said, I do wonder if there are NPCs. I speculate about characters I've known in my life and whether they are 'complete' or not, or there to provoke specific responses.

Church towers and non-church towers are fascinating. I agree with you that there is evidence for an electrical (or magnetic or etheric) function. However, I also found evidence this power supply function may have been one component among a wider range of uses. It is one of those areas where a researcher goes to examine the evidence and - almost immediately - encounters attempts to suppress the evidence. Which, while it makes the original evidence harder to interpret, simultaneously provides more evidence that the original evidence does contain a mystery worth looking for. It is always helpful when attempts to suppress evidence actually help identify evidence.

I suspect the story of the attempted removal of Lincoln Cathedral's spires in 1809? and their actual removal in the 1860s? is evidence they were a utility for the ordinary people of that time. It needs investigating. But already, this spires story gives us clues as to what period the benefits of being (partially) freed from the original stock pen were being removed (by - possibly - members of our own species). I'll post a little more on this but really I'm describing an investigation technique rather than a solution to the mystery of etheric power plants.

Hopefully we will see useful results from experiments in the cement battery thread.

 

[Sapioit]

Another good catch! Can you be more explicit about what you are thinking with regard to cherubs? Are you thinking perhaps they were automatically selected into the food market if born deformed or looked unlikely to grow up fit for slave work, entertainment? As opposed to being bred for food or bred to supply famine markets? Or other?

Maybe all of the above. I mean, if all the nuns call eachother "sister", and all the priests are called "father", then in most cases they wouldn't know who is whose father, for reasons which I will leave to your imagination.

Yeah, this feels TOO true. I might need to take a break from this site.

I know the feeling. Very relatable.

What are backfill people?​

Needler has described how every entity within the multiverse has two roles to play:

1. To experience, learn and evolve through all the different universal environments.
2. To perpetuate the underlying structure of the multiverse from a local perspective.

Most (92%) humans belong to the higher energetic genre. Our job is to explore and ascend the frequencies and to become self-aware, while we incarnate in the physical universe. Most of us have had hundreds or thousands of lifetimes in a human vehicle to evolve on Earth.

• About 8% of the human population used to be made of “backfill people,” who don’t usually incarnate on Earth, because their soul has a lesser content of sentient energies (1.5% sentience per a backfill person vs. 2.5% sentience per most humans).
• In May 2020, Needler said that about 41% of the population are backfill people (mostly in the western world).
• They are biologically identical to other human beings. They use the same vehicle we do.

But typically this is their first lifetime on Earth. It’s also the first time they have been given individualized free will, not collective will. They can decide things for themselves.

That's an interesting find. It does check out, sandly, with the west being plagued with people being very... influenceable, to say the least. Basically, most of the people in the western world feel like mere automatons, which aren't really used to dealing with real life properly.

I also wonder if that percentage of backfill people is used to stress-test, to either filter out those who are not close enough to being perfect, and/or show those people/souls what they need to take care of next, and/or getting those people/souls ready for the next level of complexity or the next world their journey leads them to move into (like a flight simulator being used to train flight pilots, for example).

I suspect the story of the attempted removal of Lincoln Cathedral's spires in 1809? and their actual removal in the 1860s? is evidence they were a utility for the ordinary people of that time. It needs investigating. But already, this spires story gives us clues as to what period the benefits of being (partially) freed from the original stock pen were being removed (by - possibly - members of our own species). I'll post a little more on this but really I'm describing an investigation technique rather than a solution to the mystery of etheric power plants.

Hopefully we will see useful results from experiments in the cement battery thread.

It does seem to me, too, that a lot of the infrastructure used for harvesting humans might have had prior uses which helped humans. And it does somewhat link with the biblical story of creation. People lived in a place where they had everything they needed, then some members of the groups were corrupted, which caused everyone to be kicked out (i.e. by invading enemies), and after the story of creation, we delve into the story of the times around when Jesus supposedly lived, which is quite a big time skip.

Anyone starting to think the prohibition on "Pork" in Judaism and Islam wasn't referring to the flesh of pigs? Those faiths also started preaching against human sacrifice. Connection?

Now that you mention it, it does sound plausible. I wonder what the words for pork and pig were, in the texts officially attributed to those times. We might see a connection there, too, like we saw with cherub, for example. The reasoning given as to why pork and other animals should not be eaten is also relevant, in my opinion, since it could explain some things, and it could even lead to the next discovery on the topic. From what I vaguely remember, it does mention not eating animals which eat other animals, or something like that.

Now that I said that, could the veganism and vegetarianism movements have been caused so those humans can be eaten by (some) islamists and judaists?

 

[usselo]

Maybe all of the above. I mean, if all the nuns call eachother "sister", and all the priests are called "father", then in most cases they wouldn't know who is whose father, for reasons which I will leave to your imagination.

A feature of many English tunnel legends is they were "built so the monks could visit the nuns".

The modern mind - corrupted by sexualised music and 'glamourised' TV/Internet, along with reports of pedo-ecclesiasticism - hears that and thinks: "Ooh-er. Naughty nuns, flirty friars!".

The mind that has followed Oracle's link to Paul Budde's amazing flood-followed-by-famine chronology hears it and thinks: "The Church is in the business of 'hatches, matches, dispatches'. Perhaps it responded to the cycle of flood-followed-by-famine. Perhaps it refocused its business model to meet surging market demand for 'hatches'."

That last explanation fits in well with the idea that things started out well for humanity before deteriorating. It also fits in nicely with the idea that things started out badly and had to be hidden once the sentience feature was added to humans.

Of course, the idea that humans were created, and that sentience was a feature added later doesn't sound very reasonable unless you have read Eugene McCarthy's macro-evolution theory. His theory that we are a chimpig hybrid is a shock but seems well researched and well reasoned (to me). When you hear McCarthy interviewed about how the hybridisation could have happened, then the notion humans were the accidental outcome of an iridium encounter comes up. That seems less rational to me. Given the secrecy around the physical evidence and the folklore about sacrifices, and slavery, etc, it seems more rational (to me) that we were the result of product managers responding to original market demand. Hence, from the available explanations for England's post-mudflood tunnels, I pick the "Church refocused on hatches" explanation.

It does seem to me, too, that a lot of the infrastructure used for harvesting humans might have had prior uses which helped humans. And it does somewhat link with the biblical story of creation. People lived in a place where they had everything they needed, then some members of the groups were corrupted, which caused everyone to be kicked out (i.e. by invading enemies), and after the story of creation, we delve into the story of the times around when Jesus supposedly lived, which is quite a big time skip.

It would be good to present and discuss evidence that things started out well for humans.

Resolving that question is critical to understanding why such an extensive tunnel network was built, why it was hidden and why resources are still deployed to derail fabricant our analysis of it.

I haven't presented all the evidence for the existence of the tunnel network (there's so much of it). Instead, I tried to show how to find the easily available examples - and how the denial of them looks - so people can review the available facts for themselves.

Did I select for towns that I already knew had rumours of tunnels (and tunnel deniers)? No. I picked towns/places I visited as a kid (Dad being a delivery driver, holidays involved a simple transfer from classroom seat to passenger seat, followed by tours of the towns between the rivers Witham and Trent).

Once you start to see the characteristics of the tunnel evidence, it is really easy to find new examples. So, until the search algorithms change, research should be a simple case of typing "tunnels under <name of preferred town/village>" followed by some reading time.

Just to highlight two examples of how true it is that there are 'secret/hidden tunnels under English towns and villages':

1. You can post the 'tunnels hidden beneath English pubs/churches/halls' proposition - along with supporting links - on a history forum and someone from a big British town like Bristol will say: "Yep, found one under a pub; been in it".

2. A few months ago, I drove through Corby Glen, Lincolnshire, England. Population: 1,000. A big village, that's all.

Back then, out of the corner of the eye, I saw this hollowish-looking way (Laxton Lane: (Google Maps) (Google Street View)) and thought "Looks odd. Hollow way? Ghostly hunt? Extension of High Dyke/Byards Leap? Parallel to High Dyke? Check map."

Driving back through Corby Glen I saw this building (Willoughby Memorial Art Gallery: (Google Maps) (Google Street View) and thought: "Ashlar construction. Posh. Commanding position. Lord/Duke/Earl? Shy? Philanphropist?"

A little Corby Glen research turns up its village water pump. Preserved and/or culverted springs, wells, and pumps are often connected with legends about England's underground infrastructure. Luckily enough, a relative knows someone from Corby Glen. Last week I got a moment to interrogate the poor person:

1. Know any legends about the posh buildings and churches in Corby Glen?
2. Know any legends about tunnels in Corby Glen?

Here are their answers (including my spelling mistakes). I've changed their name to 'witness' and neutered their gender. I never got to asking question two because 'witness' self-segued into tunnels while still answering question one:

Earnham Hall (cut: who worked for who and when, what they were like, what they were interested in)

Tunnels:
Earnham Hall to Corby Glen Methodist church (now a dance school)
access between hall and Earnham church in driveway. Now concreted over
witness taken down it as a child about 42 years ago; went several yards in.
This tunnel partially collapsed in a field under a tractor and was shored up with a concrete lintel. Its existing props were very thick 18" or so thick oak beams harvested from the Earlham estate.

Their grandfather walked the length of it. Well built.

Another tunnel ran from the methodist church out into a field.

Another ran from St John's Church, Corby Glen into a field. Their father was one of workers contracted to fill the field holes in. They described that the non-building entrances were iron or steel rings on a hinged flaps in a frame. They were pulled up to open them.
They were were sealed by pouring gravel down them, then capping it with soil.

Fighting Cocks pub had fighting cocks. Knows because xx Cocks was owner. From his name: Cocks.

Three priest holes were found in Earlham Hall, one with the priest's robes still hanging from a hook. Been in them.

Witness convinced tunnels were priest runs.

Comments about various people omitted.

If a historian wrote up Corby Glen, they'd say 'legends of tunnels' and that would be the end of it.

Side-note for English people: Ironically, reading Wakipedia's Corby Glen 'Notable Residents' section brought back events I had forgotten and had not connected with this research. It was very spooky to see it, given earlier speculation in these threads

Summary: you can put the tunnels proposition to someone from a big British town or a little English village and there is a high probability they will say:

There's one from this pub/hall/church to that church/hall/pub. Been in it.

That's because the tunnels are everywhere. Everywhere. They were resource-heavy to build yet they were built. Why? Because they mattered. Everywhere. And that suggests they were not simply priests' holes.

What is also important is that, as the links showed, for some reason even now - years later, centuries later - some institution(s) don't want us to analyse them.

Any thoughts on alternative explanations for all this?

 

[Oracle]

References to a new Era, a Golden Age characterised by harmony, stability and prosperity, do not just belong to the Native Americans, but can be found in myths and legends from all over the world. It is known as Chryson Genos in Greek mythology, the Kali yuga in Vedic and Hindu culture, and gullaldr in Norse mythology. One aspect that is common among many legends of the Golden era is the return of beings or gods that will aid in the restoration of the Earth.

In classical Greek mythology the Golden Age was presided over by the leading Titan Cronus. In some version of the myth Astraea, also ruled. She lived with men until the end of the Silver Age, but in the Bronze Age, when men became violent and greedy, fled to the stars, where she appears as the constellation Virgo, holding the scales of Justice, or Libra.

Source

It would be good to present and discuss evidence that things started out well for humans.

Well we know there's many cultures around the world believed in a former golden age but my thoughts are that after every reset ( Grand Cycle not parasite resets) we have to start again from scratch in a primitive fashion as if it's the point of our existance.
So I think ( and it's late here so I won't research now) at the very beginning things were good, i.e our needs were provided for just as a babies are when first born, and we were taught what we needed to know and took it from there ourselves in advancement.
Then the malicious entities lurking in our world slowly take over and we know the rest. They're like a virus ultimately ending up bluescreening the computer and corrupting the OS. I think when we run recovery, and reinstall, we are happy at these times as we will have recovered our free will and autonomy before it all gets corrupted again by the next infiltration.
I think I may have wandered off my point there, but I'll leave it and go to sleep for now.

As for alternatives, I will play devil's advocate and say perhaps they were for food storage,cellars, normal communication in climatic or uncertain times and some for smugglers.

 

[usselo]

As for alternatives, I will play devil's advocate and say perhaps they were for food storage,cellars, normal communication in climatic or uncertain times and some for smugglers.

Thanks for picking up the challenge Oracle. Especially while tired - that's beyond the call of duty.

Devil's advocate is helpful. It lets people weigh up the evidence and the reasoning in an open way. I'm keen to hear what people think of the options we each see and to add their own.

Perhaps unexpectedly, I agree with your Devil's advocate points. I've taken them point by point. I've also trowelled on the detail like wet cement because many board users may not be familiar with England, its culture, its opportunities for, and culture around, smuggling. That may not be necessary for you but I wanted to make sure other readers had context:

1. food storage. Yep. Normal for food storage, like bags of potatoes, turnips, parsnips, salt, flour, etc. But why deny this today? Why deny tunnels at all if they were only about food storage? Why build tunnels for food storage? Ruth Crook mentioned 'meathooks'. She's not the only writer to comment on meathooks in England's secret places.

The unpleasant photograph below is from Capela dos Ossos, Evora, Portugal - not England. Nevertheless, perhaps it can help us overcome our taboos about how business might have looked.

Meathook merchandise​

I suspect the problem about food storage is to do with salted meat and smoked meat, preserved and sold 'on the bone'. Tunnel legends' termination points (meaning: tunnel entrances and exits) of urban English tunnels sometimes say the tunnel terminated in the 'marketplace' or the market square. In a few cases, you find specific references to tunnels terminating under "Butcher's Row".

Butcher's Row, Grantham: (Google maps), (Google Streetview)

Butcher's Baulk, Royston: (Google maps), (Google Streetview)

I haven't tested the Royston coordinates' 'Streetview' link but if you swing the orange figurine around you should get a sense of the area today. Royston is in Hertfordshire and we're discouraged from talking about tunnels in Hertfordshire. Except Royston Cave. Even then, we follow guidelines. Because there is nothing to see here, move along.

In three other locations, tunnels allegedly terminate in buildings owned - or previously owned - by existing butchers. One of them is also on a rumoured tunnel line that runs from a town's central church past the butcher's shop and on to that butcher's former meat preparation facility about 400 yards away. They still have a meat-prep facility 15 yards or so from the old meat-prep facility. Because those three butchers still trade, I won't name them.

In two other locations there are 'Butcher's Rows' that I haven't looked into yet. I don't have tunnel legends for them and haven't had time to look for tunnel legends. They are:

Butcher's Row, Beverley, West Yorkshire
and
Butcher's Row, Shrewsbury, Shropshire

Summary: Food storage. Yes, agreed. The secrecy is about the meat. (I think about live trade too but that is for another day).

3. cellars. Agreed again. The tunnel legends often terminate them in cellars (and 'vaults'). We moderns tend to think something like: "a tunnel is linear and cannot be a cellar". And: "a cellar is under one building and not linear, so it is nothing to do with tunnels". I need a lot of space to deal with our usage of underground spaces versus other entities' usage of underground spaces. I think the easiest way to begin to see one of the big differences is that we perceive property as having stringent property boundaries. I don't think they did. So their cellars and vaults could extend into 'common spaces' under the street. Read Ruth Crook on this. She gives it away. Another clue is that if you go searching for tunnel legends you will find things like: "There was a tunnel going out from our cellar. It went towards the pub/church/hall/monastery, but the landowners bricked it up in the early 1960s".

Summary: Tunnels versus cellars is an issue of semantics and former physical integration that is now blocked off.

4. normal communication in climatic or uncertain times. This one is really interesting. Wish I had the resources to investigate. We have a cycle of floods and possibly those floods included mudfloods. It is possible folks prepared for them (and there is evidence that the farmers of us did prepare for them). However, tunnels don't really help preserve you and your stored stock/harvest in a flood unless you can seal them (see Congham, Norfolk, England) That said, there are linear structures that are rumoured to be tunnels that are half above ground. Eg: Binham, Norfolk, England. There are several narrative-defying dykes in East Anglia but Binham's green bank is the only one I've found so far with a findable tunnel legend. Perhaps Binham was an attempt to create a flood/fire-resistant 'tunnel'.

Summary: There's something in this. It is complex and under-researched, though the engineering described in most tunnel legends doesn't support this use-case.

5. and some for smugglers. This one is fascinating. Given that for most of us, the initial explanation for tunnels is 'smugglers', you would think that any parts of England near the coast would likely have smuggling legends. You would think that any English coast that is a short sea journey from another country (with the product, price and tax differences that make smuggling profitable) would most likely have had smugglers. So, in England you would look at the south coast and lower (southern) east coast because both coasts face Europe (wine, tobacco, perfumes, drugs, etc). Possibly England's west coast because it faces Ireland. But Ireland was for a long time under British rule and so presumably there weren't the tax and product differences that smugglers' profits rely on.

In theory, we might expect more tunnels in the Europe-facing coastal areas than elsewhere. And we might expect their tunnel terminations would bring them out at coasts and rivers that enable boat access to the sea. And not so much at churches. Except, possibly, for 'the parson's brandy'. Even then, the parson would be wise to avoid having smuggling's physical infrastructure being discovered on his premises.

Unfortunately there's no (public) national survey of Britain's smugglers' tunnels, let alone all its secret tunnels. So we don't have nationwide data we can examine.

However, we do have one regional data-set. In the 70s and 80s, Mike Burgess published The Lantern - a fanzine about mysteries in East Anglia. Then a website called Hidden East Anglia. Which has a section on East Anglia's tunnel legends.

Perfect for us. We are looking for details of tunnels in a coastal area facing Europe. East Anglia is perfect for smugglers in that respect. Not only that, but this is the coastal area of England closest to Holland and Belgium, where we have Paul Budde's evidence of floods-followed-by-famine. An area of Europe with demand for food and an inability to produce it themselves. So, this part of England ticks all the boxes:

1. It is ideal for smugglers
2. It is ideal for our specific purpose (finding infrastructure associated with a secret body parts trade into Europe)

Burgess conveniently made his tunnels index page easy to analyse by tunnel termination types. I've separated out the methodology into a later section to add below because I have laboured this response already.

Burgess listed 228 individual tunnel legends outside of East Anglian towns.

If they were built for smuggling, the majority will have a termination point on the coast, on a river, at a dock. For folks unfamiliar with Europe, the proposition is smugglers would want to blend in with freight traffic crossing the North Sea).

But that is not what we find.

Of the 228 East Anglian tunnel legends Burgess listed, 17 of them claimed the tunnel terminated at "smuggler's" locations like: 'river', 'beach', 'cliff', 'dock', 'rock', 'shore'. That is: 8% of tunnels terminated at a location useful for smuggling.

122 tunnel legends claimed tunnel terminations at ecclesiastical locations like: 'abbey|cathedral|chapel|church|friary|minster|nun|priory|rectory|temple|vicar'. That is 54%.

Summary: By far the majority of East Anglian tunnel legends involve religious buildings. Relatively few involve smugglers' locations. Even in a coastal area of England that favours smuggling.

Just for completeness, let's add in the other termination types that often appear in tunnel legends:

Add in 'manor and hall' and the 122 ecclesiastical tunnel terminations rises to 149. 149 / 228 * 100 = 65%

Add in 'castle and mound' and the 149 tunnel terminations becomes 157. 157 / 228 * 100 = 69%

Add in 'inn, pub and hotel' and the 157 tunnel terminations becomes 170. 170 / 228 * 100 = 75%

I'd argue that 'manor' and 'hall' are really 'ecclesiastical' origins to a not widely advertised quirk of English architectural history called 'moated manor houses' but I have separated 'manor' and 'hall' out to stick with a modern understanding of them. The point still holds: tunnel legends suggest they served Homo ecclesiasticus more than Homo smuggliens.

I hope this response doesn't come over as overwhelming come-back on your Devilish Advocacy. I did this analysis weeks ago and planned to post it later on. However, your smugglers question gave me the kick in the pants I needed to bring it forward.

It's taken longer to format than I expected. I will check for mistakes and update in the morning. And add in the Linux 'grep|wc -l' parts of the methodology if anyone wants it.

Edit: various, plus unpleasant photograph

 

[Citezenship]

That's because the tunnels are everywhere. Everywhere. They were resource-heavy to build yet they were built. Why? Because they mattered. Everywhere. And that suggests they were not simply priests' holes.

Not only why but by whom and when and did we build them or find them.

I haven't tested the Royston coordinates' 'Streetview' link but if you swing the orange figurine around you should get a sense of the area today. Royston is in Hertfordshire and we're discouraged from talking about tunnels in Hertfordshire. Except Royston Cave. Even then, we follow guidelines. Because there is nothing to see here, move along.

There are some parallels to the Clifton cave and the Royston cave, both have a giants folklore, both discovered by chance, both inhabited by saints.

http://dersu4krvz7v7.cloudfront.net...in-Royston-surrounding-area-A1_final-copy.pdf

Goram and Vincent - Wikipedia

What peaked my interest was the similarity of the names of the giants, Ghyston and Royston.

 

[davtash]

I know.

I think the visible part of our roadmap looks something like this:

Stage 1. Seeing the evidence
Stage 2. Understanding the evidence
Stage 3. Grief (which has its own stages)
Stage 4. Gratitude

Gratitude is there because if you make this horror story go away, we go away.

We exist because of it.

Once you get to gratitude, you have reached a rare form of maturity. My guess is that discovery of stage five starts somewhere around there.

If IHASFEMR is even close to correct, then we are being watched as we go through this process. Not, I think, with hunger (though that may still be there) but with curiousity and perhaps compassion.

I hope you don't leave the site. If you do take a break, it might be worth using some of the time to watch the British TV series Humans if you can access it, or the US TV series Westworld.

I'm sure those show and tells shows were made for a reason. As, I'm sure, was Cloud Atlas.

I've got quite a bit more evidence to post but I'm taking care about what I post and what I hold back. This because one needs time to digest the evidence. I want to see how that is going. Also, various groups may take offence. I don't have a clear picture of how that aspect of the situation looks.

I really appreciate your replies for what they are and because they give me a chance to separate new posts from previous posts.

An evening spent with kbogam is never wasted.

Thanks so much for your additions. That pattern is seen over and over again around England (and I dare say the UK). It is the 'major port' variant of the pattern. Your 'discovered it while refurbing' is also a pattern.

Public conveniences are also part of an urban distribution pattern. As are coaching inns/hotels/pubs, assembly rooms, guildhalls, corn exchanges, general post offices, banks. As are 1960s ugly Arndale shopping centres.

Thanks Oracle! Yes, that is a visual journey for sure.

I think it is us who have loyalty loops, though anyone 'genuine' who is registered on SH.net is likely to be somewhere in the process of breaking out of theirs.

What I mean by 'loyalty loop' is - as an example - genuine people (ie not NPCs) who cannot see evidence of a problem with this or that authority. Instead, they tell those who can see a problem: "You're a conspiracy theorist." That is their loyalty loop in action. It is not related to their intelligence or reasoning ability. It is a trip-switch, a circuit breaker.

That said, I do wonder if there are NPCs. I speculate about characters I've known in my life and whether they are 'complete' or not, or there to provoke specific responses.

Church towers and non-church towers are fascinating. I agree with you that there is evidence for an electrical (or magnetic or etheric) function. However, I also found evidence this power supply function may have been one component among a wider range of uses. It is one of those areas where a researcher goes to examine the evidence and - almost immediately - encounters attempts to suppress the evidence. Which, while it makes the original evidence harder to interpret, simultaneously provides more evidence that the original evidence does contain a mystery worth looking for. It is always helpful when attempts to suppress evidence actually help identify evidence.

I suspect the story of the attempted removal of Lincoln Cathedral's spires in 1809? and their actual removal in the 1860s? is evidence they were a utility for the ordinary people of that time. It needs investigating. But already, this spires story gives us clues as to what period the benefits of being (partially) freed from the original stock pen were being removed (by - possibly - members of our own species). I'll post a little more on this but really I'm describing an investigation technique rather than a solution to the mystery of etheric power plants.

Hopefully we will see useful results from experiments in the cement battery thread.

Love the idea of the trip switch as in "The Truman Show" and "Serenity."

 

[usselo]

Not only why but by whom and when and did we build them or find them.


There are some parallels to the Clifton cave and the Royston cave, both have a giants folklore, both discovered by chance, both inhabited by saints.

http://dersu4krvz7v7.cloudfront.net...in-Royston-surrounding-area-A1_final-copy.pdf

Goram and Vincent - Wikipedia

What peaked my interest was the similarity of the names of the giants, Ghyston and Royston.

Thank you so much for the PDF. I haven't finished reading it but one quote in particular:

Beliefs
Within Hertfordshire and Cambridgeshire there are some strange beliefs when it comes to generalising events, here are just a few of them:

If a church bell is rung after a wedding it is a bad omen for the couple.

Yes! Why? What were 'bells' before they were sugar-coated into tinkly tonkly musical instruments? Why are there so many accounts of monks hiding bells underground and of enraged villagers hating them, throwing them down wells?

How do the many accounts of 'peasant' rage with ecclesiasts tie in with the many, many records of English churches being dilapidated by around 1830? (See individual church's repair histories online and the Victoria County History collections).

I haven't untangled it all but the options seem to be:

1. Because peasants are ignorant, irreligious, pagan thugs.
2. Because bells = 'curfew bells' = slavery (seemingly that is white slavery in this English context, though 'moors' move in and out of the picture too)
3. Because - in some way - bells were part of church electrical appliances per Victor Mamzerev's series starting at https://pro-vladimir.livejournal.com/994.html (Russian), (English translation)
4. Because bells are re-branded mortars, as in mortar and pestle, not as in the alleged weaponry that was clearly unusable for military purposes. Why would church mortars enrage villagers? Why would they be particularly upsetting for newly-weds? Why do sacrifice stories contain a meme about 'give up the first born'? Why Cambridgeshire and Hertfordshire? What is Hertford famous for? Why does controversy follow discussion of certain Hertfordshire towns' histories?
5. Other (please feel free to add)

As you can see, I got excited when I read your PDF!

Vincent and St Vincent comes up in the context of caves/tunnels/churches/giants. Haven't had time to collate it all.

Ghyston and Royston. Thanks. First time I've come across Ghyston. Try saying each of them with a Dutch-sounding initial 'H'. Dutch takes us into 'Ghent' and Gilbert de Gaunt, John O'Gaunt (their origin in Ghent is academically accepted, for what that is worth). And thence to Belgium's giants carnivals. And thence back to the possibility that flooding and famine triggered migration out of now-lost parts of Holland, Belgium, Doggerland by giants into what is now England. Which might explain the seemingly sudden arrival of Dukes and Duchies (think 'Dutchies') and the very odd stories that hang around 'Dukes' living in eastern England. Plus 'Dutch' funded 'politicians' like Cromwell ('Chrome' 'Well' = 'Poisoned' 'Well'?) and how mainstream's dominant narratives for eastern England's tunnels are "Priest's Hole" and "Civil War escape route".

Love the idea of the trip switch as in "The Truman Show" and "Serenity."

I want to watch The Truman Show again. I'm halfway through first viewing of Serenity. (I switched it off when his ex-wife came on to him, thinking: "Go on then, get on with it. I'm going to sleep." But I will come back to it. )

 

[Sapioit]

http://dersu4krvz7v7.cloudfront.net...in-Royston-surrounding-area-A1_final-copy.pdf
I uploaded the PDF, for safekeeping.

If a church bell is rung after a wedding it is a bad omen for the couple.

Yes! Why? What were 'bells' before they were sugar-coated into tinkly tonkly musical instruments? Why are there so many accounts of monks hiding bells underground and of enraged villagers hating them, throwing them down wells?

How do the many accounts of 'peasant' rage with ecclesiasts tie in with the many, many records of English churches being dilapidated by around 1830? (See individual church's repair histories online and the Victoria County History collections).

I haven't untangled it all but the options seem to be:

1. Because peasants are ignorant, irreligious, pagan thugs.
2. Because bells = 'curfew bells' = slavery (seemingly that is white slavery in this English context, though 'moors' move in and out of the picture too)
3. Because - in some way - bells were part of church electrical appliances per Victor Mamzerev's series starting at https://pro-vladimir.livejournal.com/994.html (Russian), (English translation)
4. Because bells are re-branded mortars, as in mortar and pestle, not as in the alleged weaponry that was clearly unusable for military purposes. Why would church mortars enrage villagers? Why would they be particularly upsetting for newly-weds? Why do sacrifice stories contain a meme about 'give up the first born'? Why Cambridgeshire and Hertfordshire? What is Hertford famous for? Why does controversy follow discussion of certain Hertfordshire towns' histories?
5. Other (please feel free to add)

6. They could be used to stun the humans, kind of like how a flashbang stuns humans using both sound and a blinding light, but without the blinding light. And since weddings are often gatherings of people and their families, then the food is already crowded together and ready for the picking.
7. Brainwashing used by the secret services of today often uses catch phrases and certain words as triggers, for different behaviours. For a period of time, the armies used flags, and then fireworks when there was no visibility for flags, to communicate. The same could have been done with the bells, to activate infiltrators to attack from the inside. Even just opening the city gates for the invaders/attackers on someone's wedding date to would turn that day from a happy day into a bad day.
8. In mainstream history, bells were often rang when the settlement was attacked, so you can imagine that would turn a happy day possibly followed by the first night of the two into a sad day possibly without the wife or with the wife's first taken by someone else by force or without the husband.
9. Those could be used to heal humans or to damage humans. In many cultures, the night of the marriage is expected to be the first night of the newlyweds, so a bell which rang could lead to health defects for the newborns, or could somehow damage the link between the newlyweds in ways which might seem more esoteric than scientific.
10. It might be a case of using the number of bells to signify the price, or the quantity, or both (with a break in between). In binary, every second on-or-off signal given is double the value of the last, so taking into account two bell ringings to signal the frequency of the ringing and when to start counting, one could easily calculate numbers. Different frequencies could be used to switch from counting produce to counting price, or the other way around. The values of each ringing in binary would be like this, for example: 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, etc.
11. It could signal the arrival of clients, for the scattered employees to start bringing in the produce, which would lead to produce being consumed, which would lead to more produce needing processing to fill up the space.
12. If weddings were done in the nature, possibly with wild animals around (like in the "elven" fantasy stories of today), then a loud ringing bell would create a bit of problems, most likely scattering some if not all of those animals.
13. It could also sound like the dwarven smithies being in use by enough smiths to work in sync to make such a sound, which could spell troubles. I wonder if there are legends about that.

Speaking of dwarfs, what are the relevant myths about them, and how different are they from the modern understanding of dwarves?

Speaking of blacksmiths, aside for being known to make tools for managing cattle (like the iconic branding iron), what other relevant legends can you find about smiths? I mean, aside from working near flames all day. I know children (and I think particularly red-headed children) were made to piss into the foundry where metal was made, and the mainstream media promotes that as a truth. I wonder what the usefulness of that would be. And would those kids be human kids, or kids of giants, or giant kids of giants?

 

[wise]

This is not a subject in which I am an expert. However, I have words to say on this subject based on my general life knowledge, and I think it may contribute.

Humans are not physically different from other animals. Man is physically an animal. But when we bring the subject to intellectual, spiritual and intelligence, we see that there is a great gap among man and animal.

This situation is against the rules of mind and physics and the ordinary flow of life. The following situations are more likely; Man was created by either choosing between ready-made animal bodies and adding intelligence to it, or by the animal-inspired incarnation of an already existing intelligent being. These two are more or less the same thing.

However, life is more likely to be a Truman show than anything else. In this case, it makes sense that everyone here is trolling me, which is not nice.

 

[Citezenship]

View: https://youtu.be/0NBrce-ZHi0

 

[usselo]

View: https://youtu.be/0NBrce-ZHi0

More like a Konzentrationslager.

However, life is more likely to be a Truman show than anything else. In this case, it makes sense that everyone here is trolling me, which is not nice.

There's so much trolling, it's part of what makes the board fun. Over time, you get to see if your troll-detection skills are developing (or not). There's a lot to notice but pointing it out potentially influences it, so why do that? Outside of the board I notice how easily evidence comes my way and ponder how that is. Is my event model becoming more accurate? Or is it just sophisticated 3D trolling? Dunno. To try to escape from it is to pretend there is a place where you have similar quality puzzles to work on, along with more control over the environment. However, in my experience, pretty much every environment is filled with trolls. The only difference is that in other environments there was a pretence of a financial or other benefit from engaging with it.

A positive way to look at trolling here, and the strange - possibly trolled - coincidences that occur outside of here, is that it is like a flight simulator. You think you are landing a 737 but really you are playing against computers. Regardless, you are developing your skillset. That may be useful at some time in some way. If you take offence because it isn't 'real', what else are you going to do? Watch the computer-generated faces reporting fake news on the TV and pretend you are engaging with a troll-free version of the 'truth'?

Treat it all as a simulator and use it as simulator, as an exercise machine.

Heads up: the next part of this post contains a forensic assessment of biology and butchery scenarios. If you're squeamish, you may want to skip this.

Picking up on taboos as obstacles that disrupt our ability to process evidence... Some taboos are universal, such as "authority's statements are always correct, regardless of the evidence". That's because these taboos are not cultural. They are programmed into humans.

Other taboos are cultural, local or even domestic. They still get in the way of understanding, but they can be overcome. When me and some mates visited the communal toilet at Ephesus, we struggled with the practicalities. Especially the men. We stood facing them, we sat on them, we squatted on them... We went through the motions and they just didn't make sense.

But we couldn't figure out what they were actually for.

We knew something was wrong because their dimensions were wrong and because the way we were told they were used was wrong. If you have never seen these things in real life, your taboos may inhibit your envisioning capabilities. There isn't much I can do about that but - in case it helps - here's a quick guide to communal toilets and their usage as archaeologists see it.

A communal toilet. Key features holes, slots, gutter. And the remains of what was possibly a tiled wall to rear and above


Much easier to check your tersorium since they took out the end wall, don't you agree Coprolitus?


The basic usage proposition. Take your time; study it
​

You find this image in various papers, with one captioning it: 'Conjectural'. I am desperate for a database of dimensions taken from known communal toilet facilities around the world. I presume archaeologists are too. Then they could reconstruct communal toilets and do the kind of 'Living History' that produces usable data and a career in television.

But absent dimensional data, we work with what we've got. What we've got is how archaeologists say communal toilets were used:

Note the toilet seat holes have been enlarged so they look more practical; and the narrative-challenging slots have gone​

There is so much to say about about this picture. From proto-scout uniforms to the depicted activities; to the idea that you drop in for a crap, finish up and then spend 30 minutes discussing last weekend's Circus Maximus races amid the noises and the stink. It's an insult to believe it: a form of trolling. Rather than parse the entire scene, and the variety of events that take place in toilets, ponder one label in this image: the tersorium.

That's a bunch of tersoriums - sponge-sticks - sitting in a dish of water. Apparently, these sponge-sticks were rinsed during use and re-used - as can be seen front-left in the image. Take that scene and run with it. Gallantus is telling you about some Coritani wench he's got his eye on while you lift up and go at your bum with a sponge-stick. Occasionally, you peer at the sponge to see how clean you are. Now imagine this in the slotted version of communal toilets. Are you supposed to prod the stick through the front slot that is provided in slotted communal toilets, while avoiding smearing your manhood? Do you keep moving this crap-smeared thing back and forth past your dangly bits each time you inspect and rinse it?

And when you are done? Chuck it down the toilet hole or give it a rinse and toss it back into the tersorium dish? If not, they are presumably being replaced periodically? Or did you bring your personal sponge-stick in with you, perhaps stowed away in a natty tersorium pouch?

It's ridiculous.

But there is a clue to the mystery - at least to the sponge-sticks part of the mystery. It's in the image below:

"Well known from literary sources"​

A lot of our 'facts' are from 'literary sources'. That's why, collectively, they're called 'his-story'.

My guess is that butchers used sponge-sticks to sop up blood from the gutter. Then offered them to their customers' fascinated kids.

'Penny blood sticks' - the toffee apple of their day.

If you think that conjecture is ridiculous, consider the image below:

Anus scraper. Apparently, these were used when sponge sticks were unavailable​

Yes.

However, if you looked closely at the human skull shown in the Narborough Bone Mill post, you may have noticed it had been prepared. It had been sliced away from the lower half of the skull. It looks to have been separated along the sphenofrontal suture, the sphenoparietal suture, the squamousal suture and then - revealingly - through both parietal bones.

A clean cut, marred by subsequent edge-fractures and wear​

Sutures may separate through decomposition, although they usually don't, which is why archaeologists find complete skulls and why tourists see a complete skull hanging from a meathook in Portugal's Evora ossuary. However, parietal plates are strong: they don't self-separate where there is no suture.

So, the scenario seems to have been: dead (hopefully) prey lying on its back, then a single chop downwards, aimed at the bridge of the nose, down along the three named sutures, and then down through both parietal bones. It was likely a sharp blade, a big blade, and wielded by someone - or some thing - that was very strong.

And when we remember that the chambers in communal toilet abbatoirs would have accumulated heads, we can plausibly model a scenario in which the heads were collected, opened in the manner the Narborough skull suggests, and the whole bowl of brains handed to the customer along with a convenient scallop scraper. Could have been a holiday treat; could have been the day to day. The dictionary definition of 'scullery' suggests it was the day to day.

Sounds implausible, but the first time I ate mussels, they arrived on the breakfast table in a huge tureen. With a napkin. No knife or fork. The proprietor gestured we should use one mussel's hinged shell to extract the meat from the other mussels. It works; there's nothing unwieldy about using a shell to scrape soft meat out of another shell. I admit I haven't seen it done with human brains. Though I've seen TV shows do something similar.

In contrast, there's nothing wieldy about using a scallop shell to scrape your bum clean. Personally, I wouldn't do it with a mussel shell, let alone a scallop shell. As always, different opinions are welcome.

Scallop shells have another sinister aspect. They have an odd way of becoming symbols of institutions and corporations that profit from encouraging people to travel. Even to travel a heck of a long way from home while not giving their full name to other pilgrims along the way. Which I imagine makes the occasional disappearance that bit easier to manage.

Even after dmitrij_an and pro_vladimir openly stated communal toilets were slaughterhouses, I struggled with it. It took kbogam's imagery to drive the point home.

That said, his choice of curvy, near-naked girls puzzled me. Why not model it with children?

Eventually, the penny dropped. Russia has taboos against depicting child cruelty. In contrast, child cruelty is mandatory in Britain. Or, as a Polish friend commented:

In Britain, dogs get more love, more respect and have more legal rights than children.

And bladed weapons? In Russia, it is perfectly normal to see glamorous women swinging bladed weapons.

You think I'm making this up?

In Britain, it is a discretionary criminal offence to carry - in public - a bladed tool longer than three inches (75mm).

In contrast, if kbogam popped into his local wine bar, he would likely have encountered this:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aqn7Umb-_Yh

So, Russians can play with swords in public but depicting child slaughter in communal toilets is taboo. In contrast, the average Brit can't carry a usable knife, let alone a sword. And they don't need to model human slaughterhouses because, beneath their feet, Britain's many authorities have already built them.

To lighten things up a bit. It's fun to accuracy-check the drawings in academic papers about communal toilets. The image above showing a woman in sandals flushing a toilet floor with a well-aimed jug of water was a laugh. If you've ever cleaned public toilets, you'll know why. So was this one, which while obviously not about communal toilets, does put the finger on problems with the accuracy of archaeologists' illustrations:

Watch that left hand, lady​

Hope she washed it before preparing dinner in the scullery.

Edit: clarifies trolling comment, removes gratuitous taunt

 

[Sapioit]

Hope she washed it before preparing dinner in the scullery.

Even the name skullery should raise an eyebrow.

 

[usselo]

Not only why but by whom and when and did we build them or find them.

I just came across a comment relevant to these great questions. From Martin Smith's Stamford Myths and Legends, 1998, p51:

In the many religious houses the inmates were engaged in removing their sacred vessels and relics into their secret chambers, or building them up in subterranean passages which undermined the town.
E. Bentley Wood, 1461, An Epilogue in the History of Stamford, 1889

Many ancient towns in England were originally built with a network of underground tunnels connecting the churches, guildhalls, monasteries and nunneries. These were used as retreat in times of attack and for clandestine communication between the religious houses.

I think E Bentley Wood was writing about ecclesiastic preparations under Stamford during the War of the Roses alleged events. Have not seen a copy to confirm.

Smith quotes E Bentley Wood and then starts the chapter with his own comment - 'Many ancient towns in England were originally built with a network of underground tunnels' - as though he knows for sure. If so, how does he know? How does he know the tunnels were built at the same time as the towns? (Which is what he and Bentley Smith seem to imply.) Why does Smith deny tunnels and - further in - call them impracticable - after first saying what the tunnels were built for?

So Smith, like Mike Burgess of Hidden East Anglia fame, and Ruth Crook of Grantham meat-hook fame, was dismissive of England's tunnels.

From 1776 and the Airports according to Trump

Much "truth" is presented to those with eyes to see and ears to hear.

'Did we build them or find them' is another great question. Maybe the answer depends on how you define 'we'. Where does 'other' begin?

Even the name skullery should raise an eyebrow.

Yes, indeed!

Your additions to the earlier 'buried bells' comment helped me find more reports about that phenomenon. That led me to another connection. Formatting that now for a post hopefully in the next couple of days.

 

[Citezenship]

I guess it would be prudent to mention the word skull-duggery.

This stuff almost writes it self.

Definition of SKULDUGGERY

Interesting that it has no etymology.

Here is the ngram chart

Google Books Ngram Viewer

Maybe a little clue as to when.

 

[Starman]

It's a shame Pavel Verkhov AKA Alexander Alekseev AKA kbogam chose to demonstrate a human slaughter using curvaceous, near-naked young women. In my opinion, he might better have caught the head-trapping functionality of communal toilets' design if he had modelled it using three to 12 year olds. Regardless, the images in his page show how communal toilets might have been used as the halal human slaughterhouses some of us suspect they really were.

​

Though appreciated, the two naked ladies didn't use the facilities properly. You're supposed to kneel and put your head all the way through the hole and downwards into the U shaped niche. A heavy stone goes on top of the loo above your head and locks you into place. The meat cleaver obviously chops down outside the loo, between it and your shoulders. Your head conveniently stays inside the loo and there's less gore to clean up. The cartoon was inaccurate. Why is that?