As with most rabbitholes, it started off on something completely different. It began with a monument:
They had quite the engineering task, getting that thing put together. There is a detailed photo album of the work done found here, it is very impressive - for something that is essentially a sculpture to dedicate the Battle of Stalingrad. But that was only the beginning of this rabbithole...
Well, Tartarian/Scythian burial grounds happen to look awful familiar...
If you ask me, I'd say those look fairly similar to the mounds we find here in North America. But more on that later.
As I tend to do when I have a bit of string to tug - I'll do some keyword searches and see if I get some interesting book results. Interesting results like this one, from The Young Folk's History of Russia:
This particular book tells the tale of Mamai and his battle against the Christians in 1380 (whenever that actually was). However, if you noticed it says that Mamai Kan was standing on an ancient burial mound in the midst of the plain. According to this book, the mound was already ancient when Mamai was fighting there. So as per usual, we have multiple contradicting origins for this particular spot. It seems it has been an important place for a long time in that area - closer to the mysterious Scythians of the steppe.
But there's another thing that stood out to me on that page, in the next paragraph. It reads:
These words for white man, caucasian, and giant cannibals could be a relative to the Kuman of the steppes. This language is attributed to the Menomini Indians - a tribe that according to history settled in Wisconsin and the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.
Perhaps kuman in their language is a fragment of this same Kuman culture/race that is mentioned in Russian history.
From Journal of a Voyage to North America in Two Volumes, Vol 2 (find volume 1 here):
Its tempting to call this connection overreaching, but then I found a book which brought some very illuminating information to light. I will post some of my favorite relevant highlights from American Antiquities and Discoveries in the West, 1834:
-The Scythians are descendants from the original Tribes of Israel
-Scythians initially settled what became Independent Tartary, and eventually made their way to North America, likely around the same time the "mongol horde" (more accurately, the military arm of the interior civilization of what is now Russia) was making a mess of things.
-Tartars eventually assimilated with the natives of NA (becoming indistinguishable from "Native Americans" by the time colonization began)
-The stone fortresses mentioned in the book (possibly the starforts we find in NA) existed before the arrival of the Tartars - but are not explicitly attributed to a particular native race - simply a global mound/fortress building race.
I realize this post jumps around quite a bit, keeping the discussion focused may be difficult - but I think this is a great opportunity for the english and russian communities to come together to fill in some connections that still need to be made definitively.
They had quite the engineering task, getting that thing put together. There is a detailed photo album of the work done found here, it is very impressive - for something that is essentially a sculpture to dedicate the Battle of Stalingrad. But that was only the beginning of this rabbithole...
Kurgans/Курганы
Mamayev Kurgan means Hill of Mamai, or a burial ground for Mamai (attributed as a 14th century Tartar commander. Information about him on the english speaking internet is sparse - hopefully some fellow Russians/balkans/etc can verify this). The only depiction of Cmdr. Mamai is attributed on his wiki to this statue
Well, Tartarian/Scythian burial grounds happen to look awful familiar...
Kurgan also means a mound or barrow in Turkic and is associated with the Pit Grave Culture (whatever that means)Burial mounds are complex structures with internal chambers. Within the burial chamber at the heart of the kurgan, elite individuals were buried with grave goods and sacrificial offerings, sometimes including horses and chariots. The structures of the earlier Neolithic period from the 4th to the 3rd millenniums BC, and Bronze Age until the 1st millennium BC, display continuity of the archaic forming methods. They were inspired by common ritual-mythological ideas.
If you ask me, I'd say those look fairly similar to the mounds we find here in North America. But more on that later.
As I tend to do when I have a bit of string to tug - I'll do some keyword searches and see if I get some interesting book results. Interesting results like this one, from The Young Folk's History of Russia:
This particular book tells the tale of Mamai and his battle against the Christians in 1380 (whenever that actually was). However, if you noticed it says that Mamai Kan was standing on an ancient burial mound in the midst of the plain. According to this book, the mound was already ancient when Mamai was fighting there. So as per usual, we have multiple contradicting origins for this particular spot. It seems it has been an important place for a long time in that area - closer to the mysterious Scythians of the steppe.
But there's another thing that stood out to me on that page, in the next paragraph. It reads:
Now we have a tribe or race of giants involved in this battle? The rabbithole pulls me further down....Among the fallen were the two monks of Trinity, one of them fast clasped in the mighty arms of a Kuman giant who had perished with him in a hand-to-hand fight
The Kuman connection
Similar to Mamai, there is little english material on Kuman - some translated resources in other languages would be very helpful to fill this theory out. I did, however, find the next piece of the puzzle. Unsurprisingly, it comes from the Smithsonian:
These words for white man, caucasian, and giant cannibals could be a relative to the Kuman of the steppes. This language is attributed to the Menomini Indians - a tribe that according to history settled in Wisconsin and the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.
Perhaps kuman in their language is a fragment of this same Kuman culture/race that is mentioned in Russian history.
From Journal of a Voyage to North America in Two Volumes, Vol 2 (find volume 1 here):
Certainly a familiar style of dress to a certain culture, wouldn't you say? Bit reminiscent of the other side of the pacific, if you ask me.After we had advanced five or six leagues, we found our-
selves abreast of a little island, which lies near the west-
ern side of the bay,^ and which concealed from our view,
the mouth of a river, on which stands the village of the
Malhomines Indians,' called by our French. Folks j^voines
or Wild Oat Indians, probably from their living chiefly on
this sort of grain."* The whole nation consists only of this
village, and that too not very numerous. 'Tis really great
pity, they being the finest and handsomest men in all
Canada. They are even of a larger stature than the Pou-
tewatamies. I have been assured that they had the same
original and nearly the same languages with the Noquets,
and the Indians at the Falls."
Its tempting to call this connection overreaching, but then I found a book which brought some very illuminating information to light. I will post some of my favorite relevant highlights from American Antiquities and Discoveries in the West, 1834:
-The Scythians are descendants from the original Tribes of Israel
-Scythians initially settled what became Independent Tartary, and eventually made their way to North America, likely around the same time the "mongol horde" (more accurately, the military arm of the interior civilization of what is now Russia) was making a mess of things.
-Tartars eventually assimilated with the natives of NA (becoming indistinguishable from "Native Americans" by the time colonization began)
-The stone fortresses mentioned in the book (possibly the starforts we find in NA) existed before the arrival of the Tartars - but are not explicitly attributed to a particular native race - simply a global mound/fortress building race.
I realize this post jumps around quite a bit, keeping the discussion focused may be difficult - but I think this is a great opportunity for the english and russian communities to come together to fill in some connections that still need to be made definitively.