Origin of Homer's Illiad

zlax

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Admin note: This discussion has been split off from this thread.

Angelo Poliziano - italian humanist, philologist, poet, historian and cabbalist. First translator of the Homer's Iliad into Latin. Primary publisher of the new "ancient" authors.
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Angelo Ambrogini was born in Tuscany in Monte Pulciano (Mons Politianus) on 14 July 1454. The Ambrogini family were from a merchant family, but Angelo's father was a lawyer, but he died in 1454, leaving Angelo without means or custody.
Ambrogini moved to Florence, where he studied Latin and Greek, and attended the university ("lo Studio") from 1469-1474 under the humanists John Argiropoulo, Cristoforo Landino and Andronicus Callista. He earned his nickname Policiano by his birthplace. He was close to Ficino and his Platonic Academy. He translated the three songs of Homer's Iliad into Latin and presented them to Lorenzo de' Medici, tyrant of Florence, in 1472. In gratitude he made Poliziano his secretary, and in 1475 he entrusted him sons Piero and Giovanni, the future Pope Leo X, to tutor them. At court Lorenzo tutored the young Michelangelo Buonarroti.
But the wife of Lorenzo de' Medici - Clarice Orsini did not support the methods of education of the young humanist teacher, and Poliziano took up scientific work. From 1480 he was professor of Greek and Latin rhetoric at the University of Florence (Studio), lecturing on philosophy and a course on ancient writers: Homer, Virgil, Hesiod and the Italian poets: Dante and Lorenzo de Medici.
Poliziano did not complete his translation of Homer and it is thought that he later wrote poetry only in Greek and Italian. It is known, however, that he contributed to the printing of "ancient" Latin authors and commented on them.
 

Silveryou

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Thank you. We are talking about the Greek original though. Any comment about the content of the thread?
 

zlax

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Thank you. We are talking about the Greek original though. Any comment about the content of the thread?
This was about the content of the thread. In Western Europe, people learned about Iliad precisely from the Latin translation, which first appeared, as stated about 500 years ago.
Please pay attention to the frequency of mentioning this words in English, you can see uneven peaks characteristic of falsification, and a uniform increase in mentions only for the last 300 years.
Also noteworthy is the reference in Italian (Both these versions, English and Italian, tend to include early Latin editions):
 

Silveryou

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This was about the content of the thread. In Western Europe, people learned about Iliad precisely from the Latin translation, which first appeared, as stated about 500 years ago.
And in Eastern Europe? I repeat. This is the Greek original.
Please pay attention to the frequency of mentioning this words in English, you can see uneven peaks characteristic of falsification, and a uniform increase in mentions only for the last 300 years.
We are talking about the Greek original.
From this graph it is clear that the Odyssey seems to have been a later development than the Iliad.
There is no need of graphs. This is common knowledge between historians. They even say that the authors were two different people. And if historians say it... it's probably false!

By the way, since we are talking about the Greek original, I would like a comment on the ACTUAL CONTENT of the thread.
 

zlax

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And in Eastern Europe? I repeat. This is the Greek original.
You are quoting the Latin version in English. So it seemed logical to me to make this addition.
Anyway it would be interesting to look at these Greek originals, or at least see direct references to it.
We are talking about the Greek original.
Hmm.
(where Calypso held Ulysses before allowing him to return to Ithaca)
Starting from here, the route eastwards, which Ulysses follows (Book V of the Odyssey)
From here the Phaeacians took Ulysses to Ithaca
(the Odyssey claims that Ulysses was fair-haired; XIII, 399; XIII, 431)
For example, in Ulysses’s palace in Ithaca,
etc
Odysseus (/oʊˈdɪsiəs, oʊˈdɪsjuːs/;[1] Greek: Ὀδυσσεύς, Ὀδυσεύς, translit. Odysseús, Odyseús [o.dy(s).sěu̯s]), also known by the Latin variant Ulysses
There is no need of graphs. This is common knowledge between historians. They even say that the authors were two different people. And if historians say it... it's probably false!
I assume that both of these books are a collective work, and perhaps Angelo Poliziano was the original author of the project itself, launching the poem itself rather than the translation.
By the way, since we are talking about the Greek original, I would like a comment on the ACTUAL CONTENT of the thread.
Ok. Little is known about this in the West, but most of the original Greek manuscripts are translations from Arabic.
I looked up the text of this book in English:
I couldn't find it, although it is available in Russian here:
I will translate two paragraphs in this context:
Arabs are not the only ones with poets: foreigners have them too. There were poets in Persia and Greece too. For example, Aristotle in his "Logic" praises a certain Umatirash (Homer).
Ibn Khaldun, "Ukaddima"
...
Ordinary readers are not as strict judges as scholars and critics. When they open a book, they simply give their imagination free rein to conduct a dialogue with everything they have read before, allowing meanings, allegories, and images to enrich and complement each other. In the reader's mind, plots, characters and even authors merge; and their union is so close that whether this or that deed was done by Arsilaus or Achilles, where the adventures of Ulysses described by Homer end and those of Sinbad described by the Arab author begin, is no longer important.
I should add that the Russian translation of this Canadian researcher's book looks very "politically correct" and he does not make direct statements, painfully perceived by the proud heirs of the great Western culture. His text hints, as it were, by interchanging quotations and parallels - this is because the book is aimed at the Western reader.
But this forum is called "stolen history", not another "reconstructed history", so, i'll allow myself to be more blunt:
It is very likely that the Greek Ulysses you wrote about in this post is simply a Western poetic adaptation of the story of Sinbad the Sailor, begun by an Italian named Angelus Politianus.
 
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Silveryou

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You are quoting the Latin version in English. So it seemed logical to me to make this addition.
I am not quoting anything. This is the summary of the author himself. If you read the thread you can see that all the words are greek.
Sorry but I cannot read the mind of people.
I assume that both of these books are a collective work, and perhaps Angelo Poliziano was the original author of the project himself, launching the poem itself rather than the translation.
It's a very bold statement. Backed by what?
Ok. Little is known about this in the West, but most of the original Greek manuscripts are translations from Arabic.
I would say that the Greeks brought their literarture with them when they escaped to Italy from the falling Eastern Roman Empire. Other then that the Trojan War was known through various poems in various languages (Matter of Rome - Wikipedia).
It is very likely that the Greek Ulysses you wrote about in this post is simply a Western poetic adaptation of the story of Sinbad the Sailor, begun by an Italian named Angelus Politianus.
You should teach your Russian revisionism to the Eastern Anna Komnene (Anna Komnene - Wikipedia), who in her Alexiad (Alexiad - Wikipedia) speaks about Homer 22 times (http://www.yorku.ca/inpar/alexiad_dawes.pdf).
 

zlax

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I am not quoting anything. This is the summary of the author himself. If you read the thread you can see that all the words are greek.
Ok, then: You are mention the Latin version in English. So it seemed logical to me to make this addition.
Ulysses is the Latin name of Odysseus.
It's a very bold statement. Backed by what?
This is my unsubstantiated speculation. I would not like to go into detail to substantiate this claim more than i have already done. At least until you show me the link to the Greek original of Ulysses, which you have mentioned many times before.
I would say that the Greeks brought their literarture with them when they escaped to Italy from the falling Eastern Roman Empire.
Oh, those Roman Greeks, the fundamental creators of everything.
You should teach your Russian revisionism to the Eastern Anna Komnene (Anna Komnene - Wikipedia), who in her Alexiad (Alexiad - Wikipedia) speaks about Homer 22 times (http://www.yorku.ca/inpar/alexiad_dawes.pdf).
Ok, it is easy:

Anyway, since this is a thread strictly about the Greek original Ulysses, please clarify - which original are you talking about exactly?
 

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You are mention the Latin version in English
Nope. The author talks about the Greek version. How many times I have to tell you?
This is my unsubstantiated speculation. I would not like to go into detail to substantiate this claim more than i have already done. At least not until you show me the link to the Greek original of Ulysses, which you have mentioned many times before.
I know these petty arguments very well. You should show the Arabic originals. It's a loss of time. Every person with a little bit of understanding can see how the dates you give are all after the invention of printing (Movable type - Wikipedia). Are you going to tell me that books didn't exist before 1455? That would be another bold statement. Backed by what?
Oh, those Roman Greeks, the fundamental creators of everything.
That's hilarious, coming from a Russian sectarian nationalist (Evidence of the adoption of Islam by the Rus).
Ok, it is easy:
It's easy for people who have never opened a book in their life. I see that you are very good with petty arguments. Do you have the ultimate proof that Arabs invented everything? Do you have proof about anything that you write? The answer is NO. Google books Ngram Viewer must be used with a grain of salt. I see a lot of envy in your words. And anyway you have not read the thread.
Anyway, since this is a thread strictly about the Greek original Ulysses, please clarify - which original are you talking about exactly?
You have to clarify why you should even be taken seriously. The thread is NOT about the original book by Homer, probably written 800-900 years ago and therefore, as anyone with a bit of intelligence should comprehend, not anymore around.

152_chronology_trojan_war.jpg

Please, try to understand that you cannot prove the existence of the pair of shoes you wore when 5 years old.
This thread is about the content of the ancient works of Homer called the Iliad and the Odissey. Enough with these petty arguments. Please don't derail the thread anymore.
Thank you
 

zlax

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Nope. The author talks about the Greek version. How many times I have to tell you?
Ok, please clarify: which Greek version the author talking about exactly?
Are you going to tell me that books didn't exist before 1455?
I haven't seen any more or less reliable books older than 400 years. That said, i have seen many forgeries dated older than they were actually written. I have seen a great many such forgeries, about some significant ones i have published here some posts and i hope i will do more later such posts about another ones.
That would be another bold statement. Backed by what?
Only because i have been interested in this topic for several years and so far i have not come across any reliably verifiable written source older than 400 years. Unfortunately, the writings that is claimed to be older turns out to be either fake or a completely unverifiable statement that is simply supposed to be believed, based on the authority of those who claim it. Because of my religion, i am not supposed to believe such claims, so i have to check it every time.
That's hilarious, coming from a Russian sectarian nationalist (Evidence of the adoption of Islam by the Rus).
Please specify who are you talking about? Who exactly do you consider to be a Russian sectarian nationalist?
Do you have the ultimate proof that Arabs invented everything?
I have no such evidence, nor did i imply that the Arabs invented everything.
Do you have proof about anything that you write?
Of course, i try to provide a source of information for every statement i make.
You have to clarify why you should even be taken seriously.
I can't. On the contrary, i would recommend treating my posts with humour. If my posts are taken seriously, it is likely to cause intolerable deep mental anguish (especially to heirs to colonial privileges). But if my posts are taken with a modicum of humour, that anguish can be avoided.
This thread is about the content of the ancient works of Homer called the Iliad and the Odissey.
I merely added some related info to your post that this ancient works probably is a relative novelty, as is much of the rest of the ancient Western cultural foundation.
Enough with these petty arguments. Please don't derail the thread anymore.
No problem. I have answered all your questions in detail and i hope for reciprocity on your part. I will highlight the two questions i am most interested related to your previous statements:
Please clarify: which Greek version the author talking about exactly?
Please specify who are you talking about: who exactly do you consider to be a Russian sectarian nationalist?
 

Silveryou

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Ok, please clarify: which Greek version the author talking about exactly?
How many Greek versions do you find in libraries?
I haven't seen any more or less reliable books older than 400 years.
I wonder what kind of methods you used and if it was you to determine what you are saying or if it's someone else's thought. Probably the last I said.
That said, i have seen many forgeries dated older than they were actually written.
Who are you to decide what is true and what is false. What kind of method do you use? Google books Ngram Viewer? It's not credible.
I have seen a great many such forgeries, about some significant ones i have published here some posts and i hope i will do more later such posts about another ones.
I am not going to reply to every single supposed forgery that you or your team have found. It's just ridiculous.
Only because i have been interested in this topic for several years and so far i have not come across any reliably verifiable written source older than 400 years. Unfortunately, the writings that is claimed to be older turns out to be either fake or a completely unverifiable statement that is simply supposed to be believed, based on the authority of those who claim it. Because of my religion, i am not supposed to believe such claims, so i have to check it every time.
I repeat the last question of the previous post: can you prove the existence of the pair of shoes you wore when 5 years old? And if not, that would mean you went around barefoot?
I have no such evidence, nor did i imply that the Arabs invented everything.
Or the Russians, or the Orthodox Erisians, or Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha or evrything that comes to your mind. You fail to understand that the lack of an original doesn't mean it never existed.
Of course, i try to provide a source of information for every statement i make.
I think you don't understand what is the meaning of source. I am not going further with explanations. It seems to me that you are driven by your faith more than logic.
I can't. On the contrary, i would recommend treating my posts with humour. If my posts are taken seriously, it is likely to cause intolerable deep mental anguish (especially to heirs to colonial privileges). But if my posts are taken with a modicum of humour, that anguish can be avoided.
OK you succeeded in your intent. This comment is really humourous. Anyway I want to clarify that the anguish derives from your stubborness in repeating petty arguments in a thread that deals with something totally different. It is YOU who should adapt to the theme of this thread. I am beggining to ask myself if you are derailing the thread on purpose. Your sect (Discordianism - Wikipedia) has discord as its objective. I would like that you stop with your pointless statements. You have opened a thousand threads with material copied from some obscure Russian websites, you can continue your fallacious reasonings there!
I merely added some related info to your post that this ancient works probably is a relative novelty, as is much of the rest of the ancient Western cultural foundation.
You added more then one time and I responded in a clear way that your reasoning is fallacious and your insistence brings me to think that you are doing it on purpose. I see a lot of envy towards the West. By the way, you have not read the thread because it is about the North, if you have any knowledge of cardinal points without consulting Google books Ngram Viewer.
No problem. I have answered all your questions in detail and i hope for reciprocity on your part. I will highlight the two questions i am most interested related to your previous statements:
You have covered yourself with shame.
Go to a library and ask for the Homeric poems, then return when you have read it.

By the way, it doesn't require a genius to see that the results of your lovely Google books Ngram Viewer are heavily conditioned by the invention of printing and the diffusion of encyclopedias (Encyclopedia - Wikipedia).

Please, don't disturb anymore. Go talk to yourself in one of your thousand threads.
Thank you
 

zlax

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How many Greek versions do you find in libraries?
What kind of method do you use? Google books Ngram Viewer?
I repeat the last question of the previous post: can you prove the existence of the pair of shoes you wore when 5 years old? And if not, that would mean you went around barefoot?
Earlier i answered all your questions in as much detail as possible, but you defiantly ignoring just two of my simple questions:
Please clarify: which Greek version the author talking about exactly?
Please specify who are you talking about: who exactly do you consider to be a Russian sectarian nationalist?

As i understand it you clearly seem to be trying to demonstrate your superiority and treat me as your slave. It is usually only the master in relation to his slave who takes no any responsibility and yet demands an explanation and answers.
If i correctly understood your communication style and demonstrative irresponsibility, you are a supporter of Western superiority, therefore you allow yourself such a dismissive style of communication in relation to the Slavs. I sincerely want to be wrong about this. Therefore, i ask you not to be irresponsible and answer my two simple questions for the purpose to support the peer-to-peer virtual communication protocol.
If you consider yourself a privileged Westerner who is not responsible for your statements to the Slavs, then, as i understand it, you will again ignore my questions, since go for peer-to-peer communication with your slaves should be offensive for you.
I don't rule out the possibility that my assumptions of your demonstrative irresponsibility towards some "barbaric Slav" have turned out to be correct (and you would proudly choose to confirm them with your irresponsibility, after i answered many of your questions in detail), given this information:
In the 1920s, Italian fascists targeted Yugoslavs, especially Serbs. They accused Serbs of having "atavistic impulses" and they also claimed that the Yugoslavs were conspiring together on behalf of "Grand Orient masonry and its funds".
Benito Mussolini viewed the Slavic race as inferior and barbaric. He identified the Yugoslavs (Croats) as a threat to Italy and he viewed them as competitors over the region of Dalmatia, which was claimed by Italy, and he claimed that the threat rallied Italians together at the end of World War I: "The danger of seeing the Jugo-Slavians settle along the whole Adriatic shore had caused a bringing together in Rome of the cream of our unhappy regions. Students, professors, workmen, citizens—representative men—were entreating the ministers and the professional politicians". These claims often tended to emphasize the "foreignness" of the Yugoslavs as newcomers to the area, unlike the ancient Italians, whose territories the Slavs occupied.
But i sincerely wish i was wrong in my assumption of the motives for such rhetoric and irresponsibility on your part.
Please answer my two simple questions to refute my assumptions. Or ignore them again to confirm my assumptions.
 

Silveryou

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As i understand it you clearly seem to be trying to demonstrate your superiority and treat me as your slave. It is usually only the master in relation to his slave who takes no any responsibility and yet demands an explanation and answers.
If i correctly understood your communication style and demonstrative irresponsibility, you are a supporter of Western superiority, therefore you allow yourself such a dismissive style of communication in relation to the Slavs. I sincerely want to be wrong about this. Therefore, i ask you not to be irresponsible and answer my two simple questions for the purpose to support the peer-to-peer virtual communication protocol.
If you consider yourself a privileged Westerner who is not responsible for your statements to the Slavs, then, as i understand it, you will again ignore my questions, since go for peer-to-peer communication with your slaves should be offensive for you.
I don't rule out the possibility that my assumptions of your demonstrative irresponsibility towards some "barbaric Slav" have turned out to be correct (and you would proudly choose to confirm them with your irresponsibility, after i answered many of your questions in detail), given this information:
HAHAHA! I will just say that I have Slavic blood in my veins. That shows how stupid you are. Enough of this nonsense. I don't like to call for admins but you are going way too far. THIS THREAD IS ABOUT THE SETTING OF HOMERIC POEMS IN NORTHERN REGIONS. I hope this is the last time I say it.
But i sincerely wish i was wrong in my assumption of the motives for such rhetoric and irresponsibility on your part.
Please answer my two simple questions to refute my assumptions. Or ignore them again to confirm my assumptions.
Your stupidity is without limits. I have written Langobardia under that Italian flag for obvious reasons. You should go to school and do something for your inferiority complex. THIS THREAD IS ABOUT THE SETTING OF HOMERIC POEMS IN NORTHERN REGIONS. This is the last time I talk to you about your stupidity. The next time I'll ask the admins to do something, even though I think they are looking at this thread being derailed on purpose by a rabid Russian sectarian...
 

zlax

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The next time I'll ask the admins to do something, even though I think they are looking at this thread being derailed on purpose by a rabid Russian sectarian...
Well, i doubted that my assumptions about your motives were correct. So it was important for me to get an exact answer from you as to who you were trying to call a "Russian sectarian nationalist" with reference to this post - Fomenko or me. I understood from those words that this was the label you were trying to put on me. I do not belong to any sect, i am not a nationalist, and especially not a Russian. Apparently this wording about nationalism and sectarian was your personal projection.
In any case, you have refused to take responsibility for what you are promoting by systematically ignoring my simple question:
Please clarify: which Greek version the author talking about exactly?
Perhaps my addition about the alleged author of Ulysses - Angelo Poliziano - has hurt your national feelings, and in an outburst of sentiment you had to demonstrate your inherited superiority towards your stupid interlocutor. In any case i thank you for unequivocally confirming my assumptions about your motives.
 

Silveryou

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who you were trying to call a "Russian sectarian nationalist" with reference to this post - Fomenko or me.
It's you, obviously.
In any case, you have refused to take responsibility for what you are promoting by systematically ignoring my simple question:
Please clarify: which Greek version the author talking about exactly?
Go to the library. You will finally learn something. Are you on drugs?
Perhaps my addition about the alleged author of Ulysses - Angelo Poliziano - has hurt your national feelings, and in an outburst of sentiment you had to demonstrate your inherited superiority towards your stupid interlocutor. In any case i thank you for unequivocally confirming my assumptions about your motives.
ok mr. Google books Ngram Viewer.
Good luck with your Google books Ngram Viewer!!! Everyone of your posts wants to invalidate Western literature with that tool. But it doesn't work. You should try better to promote your sectarian agenda!

The Homeric poems were written in the same period of the other Trojan literature, as Fomenko showed with simple reasonings.

152_chronology_trojan_war.jpg
 
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zlax

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Go to the library. You will finally learn something. Are you on drugs?
Earlier i answered all your questions in as much detail as possible, but you defiantly ignoring mine:
Please clarify: which Greek version the author talking about exactly?
Apparently you ask me new and new questions but systematically ignore mine, purely for sophistical purposes, to demonstrate your superiority. Given your iterative irresponsibility I will no longer answer your questions until you answer mine. I follow the principle of reciprocity, if someone is irresponsible to me, then i am irresponsible to him.
I doubt that you are capable of answering this simple question, as you seem to have simply believed in some hypothetical Greek originals and are missionizing your faith in forum dedicated to stolen history. If i understand your global motives correctly, you feel your inherited privileges in danger by a revising Western colonial history, and so you try to promote your own favourable historical reconstructions here, using sophistry to do so.
 

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Here I can give you an appropriate answer: GO TO THE LIBRARY. THE ILIAD AND ODISSEY IN GREEK ARE THE TEXTS USED BY THE AUTHOR. Good luck with your understanding of such a simple thing. I will not lose my time with you just to listen to your petty arguments based upon Google books Ngram Viewer!!! Youa are delusional my friend.

I REPEAT: GO TO THE LIBRARY AND ANSWER YOUR QUESTION BY YOURSELF. I AM NOT GOING TO DO IT FOR YOU. Even a child could do that.

And by the way, if you are going to say that everything is false or corrupted I am going to ask you a question: can you prove the existence of the pair of shoes you wore when 5 years old? And if not, that would mean you went around barefoot?

What you lack is good faith. You are envious and hateful towards what you call the WEST!!! You are brainwashed by your sectarian propaganda.

Google books Ngram Viewer should be used with a grain of salt, that is what you lack the most.
 
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zlax

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And by the way, if you are going to say that everything is false or corrupted I am going to ask you a question: can you prove the existence of the pair of shoes you wore when 5 years old? And if not, that would mean you went around barefoot?
Earlier i answered all your questions in as much detail as possible, but you defiantly ignoring mine:
Please clarify: which Greek version the author talking about exactly?
Apparently you ask me new and new questions but systematically ignore mine, purely for sophistical purposes, to demonstrate your superiority. Given your iterative irresponsibility I will no longer answer your questions until you answer mine. I follow the principle of reciprocity, if someone is irresponsible to me, then i am irresponsible to him.
I doubt that you are capable of answering this simple question, as you seem to have simply believed in some hypothetical Greek originals and are missionizing your faith in forum dedicated to stolen history. If i understand your global motives correctly, you feel your inherited privileges in danger by a revising Western colonial history, and so you try to promote your own favourable historical reconstructions here, using sophistry to do so.
 

dreamtime

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@zlax Last warning before ban. We have created a new thread and still you vandalize the OP. Your monologues aren't helpful.
 

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Admin note: This discussion has been split off from this thread.

Angelo Poliziano - italian humanist, philologist, poet, historian and cabbalist. First translator of the Homer's Iliad into Latin. Primary publisher of the new "ancient" authors.

Angelo Ambrogini was born in Tuscany in Monte Pulciano (Mons Politianus) on 14 July 1454. The Ambrogini family were from a merchant family, but Angelo's father was a lawyer, but he died in 1454, leaving Angelo without means or custody.
Ambrogini moved to Florence, where he studied Latin and Greek, and attended the university ("lo Studio") from 1469-1474 under the humanists John Argiropoulo, Cristoforo Landino and Andronicus Callista. He earned his nickname Policiano by his birthplace. He was close to Ficino and his Platonic Academy. He translated the three songs of Homer's Iliad into Latin and presented them to Lorenzo de' Medici, tyrant of Florence, in 1472. In gratitude he made Poliziano his secretary, and in 1475 he entrusted him sons Piero and Giovanni, the future Pope Leo X, to tutor them. At court Lorenzo tutored the young Michelangelo Buonarroti.
But the wife of Lorenzo de' Medici - Clarice Orsini did not support the methods of education of the young humanist teacher, and Poliziano took up scientific work. From 1480 he was professor of Greek and Latin rhetoric at the University of Florence (Studio), lecturing on philosophy and a course on ancient writers: Homer, Virgil, Hesiod and the Italian poets: Dante and Lorenzo de Medici.
Poliziano did not complete his translation of Homer and it is thought that he later wrote poetry only in Greek and Italian. It is known, however, that he contributed to the printing of "ancient" Latin authors and commented on them.
Oh the nose on the humanist is telling.
 

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Earlier i answered all your questions in as much detail as possible, but you defiantly ignoring mine:
Please clarify: which Greek version the author talking about exactly?
Go to the library and see what you can find. Don't act like you know everything. You have no clue about these two books.
Apparently you ask me new and new questions but systematically ignore mine, purely for sophistical purposes, to demonstrate your superiority.
You are embarassing.
Given your iterative irresponsibility I will no longer answer your questions until you answer mine. I follow the principle of reciprocity, if someone is irresponsible to me, then i am irresponsible to him.
I don't care about your answers. Your posts are all based on the irrational preaasumption that everything is false unless it's not approved by your sect or Google books Ngram Viewer, which is something that kills every dialogue from the start. Good luck confronting your dogmas with yourself
I doubt that you are capable of answering this simple question, as you seem to have simply believed in some hypothetical Greek originals and are missionizing your faith in forum dedicated to stolen history.
You cannot prove the existence of the pair of shoes you wore when 5 years old!!! I don't have to hide the fact that I believe the natural setting of Homeric Poems is the North. I DID IT ON PURPOSE!!! Are you crazy?
Instead you should explain your involvement with this sect (Evidence of the adoption of Islam by the Rus)!
If i understand your global motives correctly, you feel your inherited privileges in danger by a revising Western colonial history, and so you try to promote your own favourable historical reconstructions here, using sophistry to do so.
You don't understand anything. You can't distinguish between West and North! Do you miss a leg?
 

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