Some Criticisms and Questions I Have Regarding Alternative History Theories/Theorists

Whitewave

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antikythera machine

My thinking on "Ooparts" such as this one is that someone in power (blackmailed and disgruntled) decided to hand out some clues to our genuine historical narrative.
They could have easily destroyed this one or put it in an archive somewhere.
It's claimed its purpose was not even known for a long time after it's discovery. It was just a curiosity, a novel artifact. Probably true or it might well have been locked away or destroyed.
 

asatiger1966

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antikythera machine

My thinking on "Ooparts" such as this one is that someone in power (blackmailed and disgruntled) may have decided to hand out some clues to our genuine historical narrative. A balance of power move.
They could have easily destroyed this one or put it in an archive somewhere.
I think that nothing new can be envisioned or created. All discoveries were already here in some other form. Test name something "new" and explain how it does not connect to what we may know now?

That's why one of the creators of our atomic bomb said that, when a reporter asked him how it felt to create the first one, he answered we were the first to create one in the modern era.

I think that there are many that have more knowledge that reported. Some may think that releasing that knowledge would lead to another catastrophe as before. This is a very old planet.
 

Judy.Rugburn

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antikythera machine

My thinking on "Ooparts" such as this one is that someone in power (blackmailed and disgruntled) may have decided to hand out some clues to our genuine historical narrative. A balance of power move.
They could have easily destroyed this one or put it in an archive somewhere.
I think that nothing new can be envisioned or created. All discoveries were already here in some other form. Test name something "new" and explain how it does not connect to what we may know now?

That's why one of the creators of our atomic bomb said that, when a reporter asked him how it felt to create the first one, he answered we were the first to create one in the modern era.

I think that there are many that have more knowledge that reported. Some may think that releasing that knowledge would lead to another catastrophe as before. This is a very old planet.
I agree with you, but I also think that there are ways we can act & choose to behave that are different from what we have been taught & conditioned throughout our lives, micro & macro, to think & believe.

Uncertainty, for example, uncertainty is constant & we’ve built entire belief systems on the “certainty” of what comes after death, on history on science! But life is filled with uncertainty, & most of us cling to the egoic safety of needing to know or control or protect a story that really doesn’t serve us. Becoming comfortable with the uncertainty of life without constantly being re-triggered & acting from a place of fear, instead of sitting with it, listening to it & doing that which scares us, but is in our highest & best, anyway. The outcome of our actions does not always have be the same, but that terrifies a lot of people.

This is a very personal way to make change, but change always comes from within, first. I think those of us who have the privilege of free time, who have enough survive (even if only just barely) have a duty to the rest of the world’s population to make these personal changes.
 

asatiger1966

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To assume that something is being hidden based on the the assumption that "They built this using these flimsy looking things" is one thing, and i believe that it is wrong, but going from there and concluding that it couldn't have been another super advanced and hidden ancient civilisation that built the megaliths is ludicrous - the evidence being ignored to make such "discoveries" is all too apparent and a sign that there is a desired conclusion.

Rest easy. That was my last word in this thread. ?(y)
Alright then i'll close with this. My problem is not that people might entertain the possibiity of ancient super advanced civilization, it is that some people will attach themselves to that extreme conclusion, and use the lack of evidence to 100% prove the mainstream theory on the subject to declare that they must be correct, using rhetorical questions to imply their conclusions without actually having to defend them with real evidence.

I do agree that this thread has probably run its course and that i should probably start making actual evidence based arguments rather than whtever this has become. I am statisfied with the range of responses that i got.
I am very satisfied with your discourse. Just in a few days you have displayed large areas of knowledge and your input is much appreciated.
 
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Forrest

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Don't forget the foundation stones of the 3 great pyramids at Giza.
Pretty massive in themselves.

View attachment 1395

The basalt pavers of the patio of the Great Pyramid are an interesting case, something of a cross over from the understandable to the mysterious.

28. "The basalt pavement is a magnificent work, which covered more than a third of an acre. The blocks of basalt are all sawn and fitted together; they are laid upon a bed of limestone, which is of such a fine quality that the Arabs lately destroyed a large part of the work to extract the limestone for burning. I was assured that the limestone invariably occurs under every block, even though in only a thin layer. Only about a quarter of this pavement remains in situ, and none of it around the edges; the position of it can therefore only be settled by the edge of the rock-cut bed of it. This bed was traced by excavating around its N., E., and S. sides; but on the inner side, next to the Pyramid, no edge could be found; and considering how near it approached to the normal edge of the limestone pavement, and that it is within two inches of the same level as that, it seems most probable that it joined it, and hence the lack of any termination of its bed. "

Chris Dunn proposes that the saws that cut the pavers and the rest were giant circular saws mounted in the "Boat Pits". This is an end-on view of that concept-

1603166638052.png


Construction of the Saw
Instead of Dunn's pillow blocks, the bearings could be made of granite or diorite, with a shaft of the same. Lubrication could be tallow or lard. The bearings need not wrap completely around the shaft as shown. The weight of the circular saw, together with a careful control of the feed rate, could suffice to hold it down. The bearings in this case would be half-cylinders.

The greater part of the circular saw blade itself, the brown element in the image, could have been wooden, at least in its thicker sections. Only the last few feet of its radius need to be thin, probably metal.

A saw this size, say 30-50' diameter (37' in one of Dunn's estimates) , would be massive enough to act as its own flywheel. This rotational inertia reduces the jitter of the cut. The shaft might lead out to a belt drive or direct drive that was human or animal powered, since the major part of the power input is only going into the sawing action itself. Even turning slowly, the rim speed is quite high.

Evidence of the Circular Saw
Dunn has a photo of the bottom of one of these pits, which appears to show a circular cut, as if made from a saw that wore out its bearings and jumped downward, the feature marked as "D" in the photo montage below. There is another photo of this feature in close up somewhere. GizaPower:::Abu Rawash


1603168539455.png



Flinders Petrie proposed emerald, diamond, or sapphire for the teeth of the saws that cut the granite and basalt, set into saw blades made of copper or bronze. There is a very easy way to test these ideas, by sampling the detritus at the bottom of these Boat Pits. We would be looking for fragments of emerald, diamond, and sapphire, as well as basalt dust. The elemental and isotopic signatures of some of the dust should match the basalt pavers.
 
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JWW427

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My gut feeling tells me that iron, steel, and a host of other alloys have been around for hundreds of millions of years.
Somewhere, there is a locked room with some of these old tools.
The rest were melted down or rusted away.
The "Iron Age" and "Bronze Age" are just labels to festoon a jury-rigged archeo timeline.
 

asatiger1966

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but there's plenty of evidential ancient sites (which you seem to have some awareness of), which show a highly advanced level of stonework, by what must be previous civilisations, prior to even our oldest writings... who did them, if not a lost civilisation?
unless an alternative true history has been obfuscated or hidden?!?
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also, @Horstmatt it almost seems that you're arguing both sides here!?

you're saying an ancient advanced civilisation is not proven, yet admitting the ancient people who built these megalithic (and some monolithic) sites were advanced enough to build them.. :unsure:

surely that is precisely an ancient civilsation, with advanced stone cutting/moving/placing/carving technology?
The thing is that the advanced nature of some stonework is overestimated, and the versatility of the "primitive tools" is underestimated. As experimental archaeology has shown, much can be achieved with such tools and a good knowledge of mathematics and things like friction.

Yes, an advanced civilization is not proven, but my point is that these megalithic sites did not necessitate particularly advanced tools to create, it is more the way in which those tools were used that is the mystery, which is why we have experimental archeology, to try and help fill in the holes where no records exist (Though it is not remotely reliable enough to be the sole basis of a conclusion). My point is that the contradiction of MSH as you described it where megalithic structures are very advanced, but the people that are thought to have built them were not is not a contradiction at all, and is based on an exageration in pop-culture of both of these traits. The structures, while incredible marvels of architecture and engineering, especially for their time, are not impossibly advanced, and the people who built them, though limited in the materials they had available to them, were far less limited in the way they used those materials (they weren't just hitting things with copper and stone tools).

People say that mainstream hsitorians underestimate ancient peoples, but they are the ones underestimating the mainstream estimation of the abilities of ancient peoples.

Edit: I'd like to add that i'm not denying the possibility of undiscovered civilizations, it's incredibly likely that there are. Just that they were super-advanced mega-civilizations is very unlikely.

Where does the attached photos fix in with mainstream history. Found a few years ago by local boy tending livestock. I have read ages from 5,00- 12,000 years
 

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jojofelix

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Stone is crystal. The bigger it is the more piezoelectric / telluric energy it can store.
Thats why the ancients probably went to such lengths to keep it massively megalithic.
Otherwise the Trilithon (Temple of Jupiter) makes no sense. Many smaller stones would have sufficed.
makes no sense to you. but maybe they had reasons you're not aware of?
 

Horstmatt

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Where does the attached photos fix in with mainstream history. Found a few years ago by local boy tending livestock. I have read ages from 5,00- 12,000 years
Is there more conext for these images? All i see here is underground something in the northern Caucasus.
 

JWW427

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Stone is crystal. The bigger it is the more piezoelectric / telluric energy it can store.
Thats why the ancients probably went to such lengths to keep it massively megalithic.
Otherwise the Trilithon (Temple of Jupiter) makes no sense. Many smaller stones would have sufficed.
makes no sense to you. but maybe they had reasons you're not aware of?

My point was that it is far easier to build with smaller blocks. So why didn't they?
Whoever built the "Temple of Jupiter" had very good technological reasons for using the biggest blocks we know of at present for reasons we do not fully understand in the public sector. Unless you have access to a secret archive or USAP or SCIF somewhere that has those answers, we must speculate. Hence my guess of some sort of piezoelectric or electromagnetic telluric energy manipulation, storage, or amplification.
Not to mention one hell of a stable foundation.
What are your speculations?

Or are you here to join forces with "Hazmatt" in the fruitless search for the mainstream mundane, the endless pursuit of establishment mediocrity?
The production of "logical" Royal Society-style cement to smooth over the inconvenient cracks we are creating?
This forum is about pushing limits and breaking them, the destruction of outdated paradigms. And that only comes from wild speculation and unhinged suppositions. If we cant imagine new ideas there will be no new answers.
 
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Forrest

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Piezoelectricity - Infogalactic: the planetary knowledge core is a property of some materials, and to widely varying degrees..

"The first demonstration of the direct piezoelectric effect was in 1880 by the brothers Pierre Curie and Jacques Curie.[7] They combined their knowledge of pyroelectricity with their understanding of the underlying crystal structures that gave rise to pyroelectricity to predict crystal behavior, and demonstrated the effect using crystals of tourmaline, quartz, topaz, cane sugar, and Rochelle salt (sodium potassium tartrate tetrahydrate). Quartz and Rochelle salt exhibited the most piezoelectricity."

There is a list there of piezoelectric materials and some common uses.

In particular, it's not a source of energy, it's a storage mechanism, like a battery, or the water behind a dam. Squeeze a piezoelectric material and some of the resulting, stored strain energy is converted to an internal electric field (a reciprocating TEM wave, that is), which is measured as a voltage across the two faces of the applied stress.. When the external stress is removed, the voltage drops back to zero. No energy is being generated, only transduced.

One place that this effect becomes interesting is the granite beams above the King's Chamber in the Great Pyramid. These have no structural purpose at all- they don't hold the roof up or add any strength to it. The granite is high in quartz content, and the beams might be cut and tuned, as Chris Dunn suggests. If for example, an earthquake occurs, the mass of rock surrounding the beams exerts cyclical forces on them. They should then resonate at their tuned frequencies. If an electromagnetic wave, whether cyclical or pulsed, is applied, the beams would expand and contract at the same, tuned frequencies, an example of the reverse piezoelectric effect. The sound they make might even be audible.
 
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asatiger1966

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Where does the attached photos fix in with mainstream history. Found a few years ago by local boy tending livestock. I have read ages from 5,00- 12,000 years
Is there more conext for these images? All i see here is underground something in the northern Caucasus.
Syvil at New Earth and Megalith.o made videos of their trip to the site.
Where does the attached photos fix in with mainstream history. Found a few years ago by local boy tending livestock. I have read ages from 5,00- 12,000 years
Is there more conext for these images? All i see here is underground something in the northern Caucasus.
Sylvie at Ancient Megaliths and Historic sites went to the site and made a video,. The subject was brought up on SH in 2018.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWW1uLX3ClY
this is Sylvie video.

Searched for same and found this off the wall site, but it has some info. Ancient Underground City Found In Russia? (VIDEO)
 

jojofelix

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Stone is crystal. The bigger it is the more piezoelectric / telluric energy it can store.
Thats why the ancients probably went to such lengths to keep it massively megalithic.
Otherwise the Trilithon (Temple of Jupiter) makes no sense. Many smaller stones would have sufficed.
makes no sense to you. but maybe they had reasons you're not aware of?

My point was that it is far easier to build with smaller blocks. So why didn't they?
Whoever built the "Temple of Jupiter" had very good technological reasons for using the biggest blocks we know of at present for reasons we do not fully understand in the public sector. Unless you have access to a secret archive or USAP or SCIF somewhere that has those answers, we must speculate. Hence my guess of some sort of piezoelectric or electromagnetic telluric energy manipulation, storage, or amplification.
Not to mention one hell of a stable foundation.
What are your speculations?

Or are you here to join forces with "Hazmatt" in the fruitless search for the mainstream mundane, the endless pursuit of establishment mediocrity?
The production of "logical" Royal Society-style cement to smooth over the inconvenient cracks we are creating?
This forum is about pushing limits and breaking them, the destruction of outdated paradigms. And that only comes from wild speculation and unhinged suppositions. If we cant imagine new ideas there will be no new answers.
I'm all for speculation. I objected because it looked like you were saying "if they weren't using these giant stones because of their piezoelectric properties, these megalithic buildings make no sense".
 
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