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SH Archive Tartaria - Paganism, the Destruction of Gnosticism, and the Real Missing Civilization: Cathay

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Mabzynn
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2020-01-13 18:54:12
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Mabzynn

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Let's break the spell: On 25 April 1507, as a member of the Gymnasium Vosagense in the Duchy of Lorraine, Waldseemuller produced a globular world map and a large 12-panel world wall map using the information from Columbus and Vespucci's travels (Universalis Cosmographia), both bearing the first use of the name "America":

Universalis Cosmographia, Waldseemüller's - 1507
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SOURCE
It shows Tartaria under a different emblem than I've seen previously with the sand owl / gryphon / double eagle and that is this:

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On the map you also have your other notable symbols for the ruling class that evolved into more elaborate heraldry throughout Europe:

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Then you have your Christianity symbolism coming out of South East Asia (minus Southern India) and Africa:

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You have Islamic symbolism throughout North Africa and India:

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And then you have you these regions represented by no banner - Bactria, Scythia, and Chatay:

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You have the newly named "America's" represented as mostly unknown (Terra Incognita) outside of a few imperial foot prints which appear to be flags claiming territorial rights. It looks as if they're just beginning to name the rivers and haven't established anything that would be considered a city or town as there are no circles which would match the narrative.

It maps the North Eastern coast of what is labelled Chatay and India Superior as if the "Anian" Straight is visible. This would indicate to me that this map is post whatever event fractured/expanded the Asian continent with what is today called the Americas:
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The Vosges Gymnasium the ecclesiastical school was located on the roads connecting Paris to the cities of Strasbourg , Sélestat , Heidelberg and Friborg , the small town of Saint-Dié had created a school for the Brothers of common life under the protection of the Duchy of Lorraine and the Vatican . This ecclesiastical school came directly from Rome and not from a bishopric. It was founded in 1490 by Canon Vautrin Lud .

In addition to its Latin school the Vosges Gymnasium included an important printing press for the propagation of scientific work in all fields, ranging from geography to music through geometry. Or ya know the spread of propaganda.

Another major problem with the map:

The map sheets have been maintained separated—not joined, with each of the large maps composed of 12 separate sheets—and that is probably why they survived. The portfolio with its great treasure was uncovered and revealed to the world in 1901 by the Jesuit priest Josef Fischer, who was conducting research in the Waldburg collection.

So, with that lets look at a monk who lived in the period shortly following these dates:

Gilbert Génébrard was a French Benedictine monk who was critical of history and an "Orientalist."

In his early youth he entered the Cluniac monastery of Mozac near Riom, later continued his studies at the monastery of Saint-Allyre in Clermont, and completed them at the College de Navarre in Paris, where he obtained the doctorate in theology in 1562. A year later he was appointed professor of Hebrew and exegesis at the Collège Royal and at the same time held the office of prior at Saint-Denis de La Chartre in Paris.

The Cluniac Reforms, also called the Benedictine Reform, were a series of changes within medieval monasticism of the Western Church focused on restoring the traditional monastic life, encouraging art, and caring for the poor.

Génébrard was one of the most learned professors at the university and through his numerous and erudite exegetical works became famous throughout Europe.

About 1578 he went to Rome where he was honorably received by Pope Sixtus V and stood in close relation to Cardinal Allen, Baronius, Bosio, and other ecclesiastical celebrities. Upon his return, in 1588, he became one of the chief supporters of the Holy League in France. On 10 May 1591 he was appointed Archbishop of Aix by Pope Gregory XIII, but accepted this dignity only after the express command of the pope. He was consecrated by Archbishop Beaton of Glasgow on 10 April 1592. As archbishop he remained a zealous leaguer, even after Henry IV of France became reconciled with the Church in July, 1593.

The new king, however, became daily more popular and gained over to his side most of the Catholics. Génebrard saw that further opposition would be useless and, on 15 November 1593, sent his submission to the king. This, however, did not prevent the Provençal Parliament from banishing him on 26 September 1596. For a short time he stayed at Avignon, but being allowed by the king to return, he retired to the priory of Semur, which he held in commendam.

The Benedictines, officially the Order of Saint Benedict, are a monastic Catholic religious order of monks and nuns that follow the Rule of Saint Benedict. They are also sometimes called the Black Monks, in reference to the color of the members' religious habits.

Despite being called an order, the Benedictines do not operate under a single hierarchy but are instead organised as a collection of independent monastic communities, with each community (monastery, priory or abbey) within the order maintaining its autonomy. Unlike other religious orders, the Benedictines do not have a superior general or motherhouse with universal jurisdiction. Instead, the order is represented internationally by the Benedictine Confederation, an organization that was set up in 1893 to represent the order's shared interests.

Here's what he wrote: Chronographia libri quatuor. Subjuncti sunt libri Hebraeorum Chronologici: by Gilbertus Genebrand 1585
Summary: Hebrews were lost/defeated in the Orient. He's of the opinion that they spread out to the Septemtrionalioribus parts of the Orientis and Aquilonis. Bordering the Persian Empire, and ending at part of the Assyrian Empire and the Medes. Long unknown and hidden. Until around the year 1200. Hearing their name in Hebrew and Aramaic sounds like it is forsaken with that of the Tartarian desert. Many people retain the names Dan, Zebulon, Nephtali in the Septemtrionalioribus regions. Monuments between the kingdom of Tabor so it's no surprise that many Jews are in the Tartarian regions.

Similar threads:
The source goes on to discuss:
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Summary: It is probable that they are part of the population of the West Indies. First lost/defeated in the Orient. Second on the Island of St. Michael there's Ancient Hebrew in an underground tomb. On the Authority of 4 Ezra 13 it says they crossed the Euphrates, went through the Tartarian desert, and through Greenland and settled in the Asereth. As America is an island surrounded by water or a peninsula seperated by the Tartarian Sea, this matches with traditions in the Cabbala.

Now I've said it before and I'll say it again. I don't take dates in old books to mean very much. I see a statement that is very similar to the Hebrew origin story placing the Hebrews in the Tartarian Desert. He gives a pretty convincing account that Tartaria is synomous with varying tribes and language derivations of the original Hebrews.

What I also would like to add that despite his very specific expertise the amount of modern Hebrew he uses is very limited. Really only to translate a specific place/location/name into the modern Hebrew characters. Most of his ideas are extrapolated on in Latin or Greek. His writing style and spelling tells me his primary language may have Greek.


So let's see what some of the earliest maps available tell us:

1450
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1455 - Magnus Tartarus
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1457 - Genoese Map - Scythia, Catayum, Gog/Magog, Tartar Gryphon
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1559 - Lower right corner, Gran Can N'Tartaria
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1569 Mercator
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So it appears the nation known as Tartaria was confined to the region North of the Caucasus today in what is modern day Ukraine/Southern "Russia." Also establishing that the orientation on the maps is off. South was North in the earliest maps. As time passed what is present day West is North and East is South. Then it settles on our current day North / South orientation of maps. The styles of the maps are so different that I think it's hard to gather much and it's obvious some are later re-writes or copies. You should open those links though and look at how many of the maps have been destroyed where the "American" continent would have been.


To transition a bit, I'd like to introduce you to an old book. Here's my favorite little excerpt:

Natural history of the West Indies of America: by Mr. de Rochefort 1667
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A few Letters have been chosen from among several others, which were written from America in favor of this History.​

Strong last name: The Ancient Roche (Rosh) Empire - please be on the lookout

The book then goes on to describe the accepted version of history with the Columbus discovery of America (and a whole bunch of biology i.e. plants, wildlife). The only reason I ever found this book was because I stumbled across an old rare books list from the 1800's. I do like how candid he is in his disclosure though, greatly appreciative of him choosing which version of history he wanted to record.

So let me show you my version of history:

The world once looked much different and it wasn't that long ago:

There's an old globe that showed the earth the following way (dated 1535): (The globe also reveals - Australia was found in 1499, and puts giants in South America)

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Many of the regions named show in a lot of the exploration maps of the era. It also shows North America and Asia as one complete land mass.

My idea of what we've been stating Tartaria is : is a land that was diverse in people and beliefs. It has been a complete cluster of various information that has bled through in the attempt to remove the historical evidence. That has led to a lot of confusion on the matter but here's what the evidence shows me:

The area I want to focus on: is Cathay / Cathai / Chatai / Chatay / Chatayo / Chaityo / Chatai. That is the name provided for the North American region extending into Asia. You have the Gulf of Mexico labelled as the Mare Cathaium.

Here's a few other items:

1535
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1528 Globe - Cathay, Cingicole, Baccalaerum
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1535 Nancy Globe - Mare Cathayum, CAMBALA, Baccalum
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So you have - CATAY represented by a Velcuna. (Vicuna / Llama / Camel) in North America:

Here's the post connecting the Dalai Llama to Tartaria - Tartaria, a short history and dissection of its people

You have a comment on a city in Inca Empire capital - Cusco in 1530s. Did it look European?:

"The Amaru were there for roughly 8-10,000 years, since they admit that they are NOT the builders of Tiwanaku, but they claim that they knew the "old ones" who built that complex. In their language, one of the areas near the western entrance to Tiwanaku has a name that means "port" and it signifies that it was named when Tiwanaku was a port on the Lake Titicaca. But our scientists say that that must have been in the deep past due to the geography today. Another gate that they named translates to Camel gate, and camels died out in that area over 10k years ago. And no, this does not refer to the Llama, but the actual ancient camel, the bones of which have been uncovered as far west as Peru."
I don't agree with much of that comment but I'm very appreciative for that information. But, it is definitely referring to the Llama.
Also this: 1761 Zhe-hol: Poo-Ta-La Temple in Tartary
Let's provide a better representation of what Tartaria was in the 17th century. This is based on another author of the period:

Peter Heylyn was born in Burford, Oxfordshire, the son of Henry Heylyn and Elizabeth Clampard. He entered Merchant Taylors' School in March 1612. He lectured on historical geography at Magdalen. At college, where he was dubbed 'the perpetual dictator’, Heylin had been an outspoken controversialist. He subsequently became an outspoken preacher and one of Charles I's (King of Scotland) clerical followers. He became licensed Canon of Westminster in 1631. Also in 1633 he was licensed to preach.

He suffered for his loyalty to the king when, under the Commonwealth, he was deprived of his preferments.

Cosmographie in Four Books: Containing the Chorographie and
History
of the Whole World (1599 -1662) by Peter Heylin
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1) Tartaria is attached with China in the east (he's not sure if the Anian straight actually exists) which broke off from the Americas. There's Russia and Poland in the West. Scythia in the North. It is parted from China in the South by a Great Wall. The great Tartar wall in China

2) In contains all the great ancient provinces - Seves, Scythia, Imaum, Sace, Sogdiana, Sarmatia, Asiatica, Sarmatia Europa. At this point in history it is 5400 miles wide East to West, and 3600 miles North to South. (Larger than the Turkish Empire, not as hospitable)

3) No general character can be given to it due to the extent/size/difference in climates.

4) Yet - the people are pretty similar throughout it : Square stature, broad face, hollow eyes, thin beards, thick lips, flat noses, ugly faces, their complexion is darker (but not from the sun). They are barbarous especially in the Asiatic region and Antiqua. Strong, resilient, and fast.

5) They eat their enemies after they take them as an act of revenge. The let out of the blood and put it into chalices and use it on their food.

6) They ride oxen with bells and the music is delightful. Their speech sounds like a wining and their singing is like wolves howling:
Overtone singing was it Tartarian ?

7) They don't wash their hands. They use the dirt and grease as a sauce for their food (lol). They also drink horse milk.

8) Unlike other people around the world the Tartarians wear their clothes with the fur on the outside. They consider the Christians to be dogs and they're not worthy compared to their Cham.

9) Religions : Paganism and Mahometanism mostly. The pagans are considered the "gentleman" of the Tartars. The Mahometans were allowed to join in 1246.

10) They have not been successful in destroying Christianity. The Christian faith began with the Scythians through St. Andrew/Phillip. Prior to this date the Christians lived intermingled with the Pagans : Ancient Rome = Holy Roman Empire

11) Despite the Tartarian conquest of Christians - The Cathay have a metropolitan City of Cambala. They're honored by the great Cham as they've accepted no rule or crown accept his.

12) He addresses the Historian Genebrand (posted above) discussing the 10 tribes of Israel being dispersed throughout Tartaria.

13) He clarifies that the idea of "Tartarian" supersedes that of the Hebrew. As their name in Syriak and Hebrew signifies a "remnant."

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14) Explains that circumcision is not an indication of being Hebrew as the Aegyptians and Aethiopians practiced it prior to them. He says it cannot be proven that they circumcised themselves prior to Mahometanism.

15) When Tartar's first re-emerged on the world stage they were Idolaters, had no Law, had no Sabbath and no further evidence of being Jewish.

16) In the beginning essentially they were a group of Scythians under oppression by the King of Tenduc. In 1162 their chief captain Chingis united the Tartars with the Mahometans, the Arabia's, the tribes of the German Nation, The Franks, and the Alemans.

17) By 1212 they had created an Empire Larger than that of either the Roman or Macedonian ever was. They had a set back shortly after this period where the Muscovites and Polish forces recaptured the parts of their "Western Empire" in Europe. So after this they can be considered a group of five different people : Tartaria Precopensis, Asiatica, Antiqua, Zagathay, and Cathay.

Tartaria Precopensis (Tartaria Minor):

18) Mentions that at this point they've failed to maintain the Moscow towns that were built by their hands.

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19) They would mostly sell horses in fairs every year and lived in houses on wheels. The only buildings they still use are for trades and manufacturing.

20) 1475 Mahomet the Great destroyed the Christian Churches and all the lands built by the Genoan-Merchants in this region.

21) The Great Cham builds a moveable city on wheels every Summer and it's transported around called "Agara."

22) The original inhabitants of this area were Scythians - Darius of Persia waged war against these people. They forced him to chase them out into the desert. Some texts suggests the Scythians submitted and provided Darius with:

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However - the author suggests they forced continual skirmishes killing over 80,000 Persians and this was the only honorable act they ever did according to the Europeans.

23) Diana was the most respected God and they made many sacrifices to her:
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24) I feel bad for the author as he's doing his best job but he can't seem to fully figure it all out. He hadn't realized the cover up had already begun in this period with the invention of Rome and Greece.

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25) What the Persians, Greeks, and Romans failed to do the they were successful in subduing all the parts of the world of Chingis: As stated above they were previously ruled by a Great Cham from Cathala. Chingis caused a fracture which led to Lochtan Cham's as Princes in various regions of Chingis blood. These actions caused the Tartarians and the Turks to ally.

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26) This fractured Empire under Chingis (From Cathala with the capital of Cambala in the Americas) conquered Moscovia in 1571. Killing over 800,000 in just a few hours.

Tartaria Deserta/Circassia:

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27) They were previously called Zychi / Zinchi by Pliny (so late 1400's period).

28) Christianity came to the region in 860.

29) Scythia connected to a man named "Magog" - Son of Iaphet

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30) More comments on the utter lack of any Roman evidence

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31) This region was conquered in 1506 by a Basilius - A Duke of Muscovy.

32) The area to the North practiced magic (go look at the old maps again, you'll notice around the northern regions the comments of hic pygmies [dwarves, elves, faeries]

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33) There is a random story about an Aegyptian King getting a bunch of them drunk and slaying them but it's resolved with this comment. Again confirming that all of "Rome" was subdued by the Tartars.

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Zagathay

34) Succedded by an "Og" - "Zain-Cham" (Father of Tamerlane)

35) Placed as prince of the region and sacked Muscovia. Killed 25,000 on foot and 15,000 horses. Cino Cham then married his daughter to him and went on to conquer most of the known world outside of a few parts in India:

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36) After this the Great Cham in Cathay allowed all the former provinces to return to their former Governors by parcelling out the lands to his children. Notice how all the "remote" provinces from Cathay (In the Americas). Also "both" Asia's.

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37) Terra Incognita on a map can be referencing Tartaria

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38) Scythia were peopled by Noah in the areas North of the Caucasus. There's been a debate between who's the oldest even back then between Aegyptians/Scythians. The ark settled on the mountains North of Caucasus. These people then moved west and began to inhabit the known world with their "Colonies." The confusion of the languages is connected to the original Scythian language.

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39) Gives an old King's List

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On to Cathay:

40) Eastern Tartaria (Americas):

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41) They had agriculture and camels. (Too bad all those camels died in in like 10,000BC)

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42) Chinois definitely not Cathay. Also Cathay was equally pleasurable compared to that of Europe at this time.

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43) Modernized country, industrial, clothes were on point, and they had the best traded Cities in the world.

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44) Description of the main city and history (remember they resisted the initial Great Cham, i'll elaborate later)

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Maps showing derivations of Cambula in the the Americas, also Canada being called Cingicole doesn't sound like Cingis at all....

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45) The original Cathayan's were massacred and subdued during this period. Also "ancient" writers acknowledged a history of "America":

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46) The names of the cities:

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47) I'll let the author explain the history of Tartaria Antiqua:

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Here's a bit more:

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Part of Du Bartas
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SOURCE

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They populate Azasia, Tova, Topir, Mechi, Calicuza, Cossie, Florida, Avalcal, Canada, Bacalos.
Terlichi Mechi or derivations of it appear on the early maps of America. Similar to Cathai, they attempted to scrub this name off the maps.

Mechi Zone - Wikipedia - Nepal.

The Mechi River is a trans-boundary river flowing through Nepal and India. It is a tributary of the Mahananda River.

Mechi was one of the fourteen zones of Nepal until the restructuring of zones to provinces, comprising four districts; namely Ilam, Jhapa, Panchthar and Taplejung. Its headquarters are at Ilam. It comes under the Eastern Development Region of Nepal. The Indian state of Bihar is to the south, West Bengal and Sikkim in East and Tibet to the north. The largest town is Damak in the Terai. The majority of the population in Mechi are Kirantis (Limbu and Rai) and other ethnic groups like Koche and Meche, and hill castes like Bahun and Chhetris.

1632 - Lichi in South Eastern Asia.
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SOURCE

Venetian Life
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Venetian Life

It seems Lord Byron was inspired by these monks. 1816: Lord Byron's "Darkness" reveals what: war, catastrophe or nothing?

Here's the island:
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The monastery has a room called Lord Byron's that had an Aegyptian mummy shipped their in 1825.

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Alright so that's a lot. But what do we have?

We have a repeat of the Hebrew origin story coming out of the desert after being lost in the 13th/14th century through a group of Pagan Tartarians. These Tartarians conquered most of the known world. Throughout their conquest they added sects of Islam and Christianity to their ranks as is the nature of occupation and the destruction of religions. I find it oddly peculiar that these Pagans are constantly thought to have been Hebrews to many of the scholars of the period yet no one within the region is described as actually practicing the Jewish faith.

So...

What happened? Or the main question of WHY as everyone has been asking on this forum?

It's simple really, the destruction of Hermeticism/Gnosticism (or whatever you prefer to call it). The confusion comes with the Mongolian rewrite and attempting to delete evidence of who the Tartar's really were. Let me show you:

Georgi Hornii De originibus
americanis libri quatuor

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SOURCE

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If Lescarbotus is to be trusted the Great Noah was born in America
I've commented on Noah in Tartary and my belief that he is actually representing the Pagan diety Janus/Ianus here: Noah is Janus

Georgi Horni - Noah's Arc
dated J666
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The Tartarians (Pagans) destroyed the NESTORIAN's (Gnostics) around Cathayum in Scythia. Led by a Zingischan.

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So I've made some claims about who I thought Tartarians were previously or what their beliefs are and I want to expunge those statements.

This appears to be the story of Pagans hunting down and enslaving free people who attempted to preserve their beliefs through religions and mystery schools.

The strangeness that is New Spain and the Moctezuma character. KD has a great thread on it. I also posted a source in their saying that he was the King of New Spain. Meaning part of the European world as indicated by his Hapsburg heraldy : LINK

I'd also like someone to resolve my "NEW" Hebrew problem as this explains how this level of deception could occur: LINK


In conclusion...
I don't think it's possible to assemble when this all actually occurred. The dates confuse everything. It could be much closer to the early 1800's than these dates provide. Unfortunately unless some of the mystery schools have preserved real Gnosticism then it is reserved for the controllers. But I feel as if I know what has happened now. Can anyone identify a group of people that are more notorious for hating ACTUAL Christians, drinking blood, and secretly practicing Paganism?


To answer that for you: Remember that map I posted in the beginning with the strange emblem that showed who was in control of Tartaria? We've come full circle:

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We have what people call "Schisms" throughout history with various sects of Hermeticism/Gnosticism being destroyed and eliminated by the Western Church/Catholicism/Vatican. The original term used was "Cate-Chism" and I'll let you decide why that term was used and why it's mostly referred to now as "Schism." I believe there is something magical about this realm we find ourselves in. For spells to work they need to be clearly visible and apparent for all to see. What better way to rewrite history than to corrupt their religion and steal their name as a way to seal the spell and remove any references to their original beliefs.
Note: This OP was recovered from the KeeperOfTheKnowledge archive.
 

TatarKhan

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Mainstream says Cathay is another name for China, that is wrong.
It is in my view a wrong transcription of the "Chagatai Khanate" (see Wikipedia), which spoken sound like "Cha-tai" (= Cathay?).
The same khanate which Timur/Tamerlane took over (at least in terms of land size)
and the same empire which gave the name to the Turki language (see my Golden Horde post).

That would explain the descriptions of Timur's father, but I would take every name there with a big scope of salt. Why you ask? Because the royal lines/ancestry documents have been rewritten countless times.

For example most documents about Scythia (which OP quoted) are from Herodotus:
"The most detailed western description is by Herodotus. He may not have travelled in Scythia and there is scholarly debate as to the accuracy of his knowledge, but modern archaeological finds have confirmed some of his ancient claims and he remains one of the most useful writers on ancient Scythia." Source: Wikipedia

I quote a smart guy from history.stackexchange:
"Essentially, the problem is that no totally complete manuscript of Herodotus' Histories survives. Furthermore, none of the early manuscripts that do survive completely agree on the text (mainly due to scribal copying errors and selective editing in medieval scriptoria). The earliest surviving copy, "called 'Codex A", is owned by the Biblioteca Medicea Laurenziana in Florence and forms the basis for all modern translations. (..) Florence, Laurentian 70, 3. - 10th Century CE"
Source: Primary source for Herodotus?

The rest of the old papyrus copies are from the 2. century AD are mere fragments (see Wikipedia), which themselves are written down around 400 years after Herodotus' death. Do we know Scythia existed? Maybe a priest in Florence in the 10th century sat down with a couple undefined fragments and filled in the gaps with a bit of imagination. Certainly possible.

The insignia/flag next to Tartaria/Cathay could be just a wrong copy of the Golden Horde flag:

Wikimedia (from the Dulcert's 1339 map)

You - in my honest opinion - cannot trust Europeon historians on empires/people that were unreachable to them, because you end up with weird transcribed dates/names/locations.

As in: Actual name of the city / name of the ruler => local native guide => couple adventurers/merchants => other people => actual historian/writer
End result: different names/dates/people/exaggerations

Still it's a great post and certainly a motivation for further research :unsure:
 
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