SH Archive Tartary - an Empire hidden in history. It was bigger than Russia once...

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TARTARY
"Tartary, a vast country in the northern parts of Asia, bounded by Siberia on the north and west: this is called Great Tartary. The Tartars who lie south of Muscovy and Siberia, are those of Astracan, Circassia, and Dagistan, situated north-west of the Caspian-sea; the Calmuc Tartars, who lie between Siberia and the Caspian-sea; the Usbec Tartars and Moguls, who lie north of Persia and India; and lastly, those of Tibet, who lie north-west of China." - Encyclopedia Britannica, Vol. III, Edinburgh, 1771, p. 887.

1754 I-e Carte de l’Asie-1.jpg
Now compare to the description given by Wikipedia, "Tartary (Latin: Tartaria) or Great Tartary (Latin: Tartaria Magna) was a name used from the Middle Ages until the twentieth century to designate the great tract of northern and central Asia stretching from the Caspian Sea and the Ural Mountains to the Pacific Ocean, settled mostly by Turko-Mongol peoples after the Mongol invasion and the subsequent Turkic migrations."

1701: A System of Geography
country_tartary.jpg
Empires, Kingdoms and States

Tartary was not a tract. It was a country.
And to add some credibility (or to take away some) to the story, below you can find an excerpt from the CIA document declassified in 1998, and created in 1957.

CIA_tartar.jpg

Link to the document on the CIA website: NATIONAL CULTURAL DEVELOPMENT UNDER COMMUNISM

Tartarian Cities.
tartary-mongolia.jpg
1855 Source

Today, we have certain appearance related stereotypes. I think we are very much off there. It looks like Tartary was multi-religious, and multi-cultural. One of the reasons I think so is the tremendous disparity between what leaders like Genghis Khan, Batu Khan, Timur aka Tamerlane looked like to the contemporary artists vs. the appearance attributed to them today.

Today: Genghis Khan - Batu Khan - Timur
Genghis-Batu-Timur.jpg

Here is how 15-18th century books saw these three

Genghis Khan

with wife here
ching_khun-and-wife.jpg
ching_khun_3-1.jpg
genghis-kahn4-1.jpg

Timur - Tamerlane
Tamerlane-11.jpg
timur_tartary_1-2.jpg
timur_tartary_1-3.jpg
timur_tartary_8.jpg

Batu Khan
Well, I could not find any 17th/18th century Batu Khan images, but apparently in Turkey we have a few busts of the following Gentlemen. Batu Khan is one of them.

Batu-statue-Sogut-Turkey-1.jpg

A few of them I do not know, but the ones I do look nothing like what I was taught at school. Also dates are super bizarre on those plaques. Do Turks know something we don't?


The other reason why I think Tartary had to be multi-religious, and multi-cultural is its vastness during various moments in time. For example in 1652 Tartary appears to have control over the North America.

1652 Nova Totius Terrarum Orbis geographica ac hydrographica tabula_1-1.jpg
Related thread: 16th century Tartarian King Tartarrax ruled Quivira Regnum in North America

The Coverup
The official history is hiding a major world power which existed as late as the 19th century. Tartary was a country with its own flag, its own government and its own place on the map. Its territory was huge, but somehow quietly incorporated into Russia, and some other countries. This country you can find on the maps predating the second half of the 19th century.

Ngram by Google Books shows how Tartary was quietly put away.
Tartary_Ngram.jpg

Yet, some time in the 18th century Tartary Muskovite was the biggest country in the world: 3,050,000 square miles.

Tartary_HUGE-13.jpg

tartaria_book_1.jpg tartaria_book_3.jpg tartaria_book_2.jpg tartaria_book_5.jpg tartaria_book_4.jpg Tartary_HUGE_1.jpg Tartary_HUGE.jpg

Some of the maps showing Tartary

1584 - ortelius-russland-tartaren-reich-nordwesten-usa.jpg 1680 -Tartary-China-Russia-Japan-De-Wit.jpg 1684_tartary.jpg 1707 guillaume de l'ile.jpg 1714 Mappe-Monde ou Carte Universelle.jpg 1753 Mappa Mundi generalis.jpg 1754 I-e Carte de l’Asie.jpg 1806-Herisson-37-grand-tartary.jpg 1820_tartary.jpg great_tartarie_1.jpg great_tartarie_2.jpg great_tartarie_3.jpg great_tartarie.jpg great_tartarie_4.jpg great_tartarie_5.jpg tartaria_map_x_1.jpg tartaria_map_x_2.jpg tartaria_map_x_3.jpg tartaria_map_x_4.jpg tartaria_map_x_5.jpg

Tartary had its own language, flag, crest, its own emperor, and of course its own people.

The Language

tartarianlang.jpg
Source

Tartarian_Language.jpg
Source

The Kings of Tartary
Genealogy Of The Former Tartar Emperors
tartarus.jpg
Descended From Genghiscan

Genealogie Des Anciens Empereurs Tartares, Descendus De Genghiscan-1.jpg
Genealogie Des Anciens Empereurs Tartares, Descendus De Genghiscan-2.jpg
Family tree of the descendants of Ghengis Khan, with a map showing the Tartar Empire.
Source - Source - Source

The people of Tartary.
tartary_people_1.jpg tartary_people_2.jpg tartary_people_3.jpg tartary_people_4.jpg
tartary_people_5.jpg tartary_people_6.jpg tartary_people_7.jpg

The flag and crest of Tartary had an owl depicted on it. The emperor's flag contained a griffin on a yellow background.

tartary_flags-11.jpg
There were multiple publications listing the country of Tartary and its flag/crest. Some of those publications came out as late as 1865.

Tartary was not China
tartary_flag_6.jpg
Flags_of_all_nations_1865_1.jpg Flags_of_all_nations_1865.jpg 1276px-Bowles's_naval_flags_of_the_world,_1783.jpg tartary_flag_1.jpg tartary_flag_3.jpg

What do we really know?
Flags_of_all_nations_1865-mongolian-1.jpg
It is also worth mentioning that in the British Flag Table of 1783, there are three different flags listed as a flag of the Tsar of Moscow. There is also an Imperial Flag of Russia as well as multiple naval flags. And all of them are proceeded by a flag of the Viceroy of Russia.

Significance of the Viceroy is in the definition of the term. A viceroy is a regal official who runs a country, colony, city, province, or sub-national state, in the name of and as the representative of the monarch of the territory. Our official history will probably say that it was the Tsar of Russia who would appoint a viceroy of Moscow. I have reasons to doubt that.

Why is the flag of the Viceroy of Moscow positioned prior to any other Russian flag? Could it be that the Viceroy of Moscow was superior to its Czar, and was "supervising" how this Tartarian possession was being run?

viceroymoscovie.jpg
large_moscovian.jpglarge_russianimperial_copy.jpg
large_russiamarine.jpglarge_russiamarine1.jpg
There is a growing opinion in Russia that French invasion of Russia played out according to a different scenario. The one where Tsar Alexander I, and Napoleon were on the same side. Together they fought against Tartary. Essentially France and Saint Petersburg against Moscow (Tartary). And there is a strong circumstantial evidence to support such a theory.

Questions to Answer
1. Saint Petersburg was the capitol of Russia. Yet Napoleon chose to attack Moscow. Why?

2. It appears that in 1912 there was a totally different recollection of the events of 1812. How else could you explain commemorative 1912 medals honoring Napoleon?

medal_1.gifmedal_2.gif
medal_3.gifmedal_4.gif

And specifically the one with Alexander I, and Napoleon on the same medal. The below medal says something similar to, "Strength is in the unity: will of God, firmness of royalty, love for homeland and people"

Napoleon_Alexander_medal.jpg
I have hard time imagining the below two guys on the same medal in "Love and Unity"...

hitler_stalin.jpg
3. Similarity between Russian and French uniforms. There are more different uniforms involved, but the idea remains, they were ridiculously similar.

How did they fight each other in the dark?
Russia: Regular Army
1_rus.jpg

France: Regular Army
1_fra.jpg

There was one additional combat asset officially available to Russians in the war of 1812. And that was the Militia. It does appear that this so-called Militia, was in reality the army of Tartary fighting against Napoleon and Alexander I.

Russian Volunteer/Militia Units... Tartarians?
1_rus_tart.jpg
More on uniforms: Uniforms: Old World Order vs. New World Order
4. Russian nobility in Saint Petersburg spoke French well into the second half of the 19th century. The general explanation was, that it was the trend of time and fashion. Google contains multiple opinions on the matter.
  • Following the same logic, USA, Britain and Russia should've picked up German after the victory in WW2.
5. This one I just ran into: 19th-century fans were totally into a Napoleon/Alexander romance

Treaties_of_Tilsit_miniature_(France,_1810s)_side_A.jpg
NapoleonxAlexander2.jpg
napoleon-alexander.jpg
kd_separator.jpg

American Tartary
The jury is still out on this one, but there are some indicators that Tartary was present on the North American continent as well. There obviously are no official historical accounts, but some bits and pieces of info suggest just that.
north-america-1.jpg


Related SH Discussions


Books and Publications


KD Summary
I think there is enough circumstantial evidence to justify a deeper look into who fought who, and why this Tartary country is so little known about.
  • And the main question out of this all should be what is the purpose of misleading generations of people? It appears there is something tremendously serious hidden in our recent history.
Note: This OP was recovered from the Sh.org archive.
 

MgvdT

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Thank you for your post!

Back when the old site was online, I've always wanted to reply to this thread but never got to it. Might as well place it now.

WHAT DO THE DUTCH THINK?

Who cares, right? Well this time you might, since we wrote some stuff about Tartary.

Source: Gedenkwaerdig bedryf der Nederlandsche Oost-Indische maetschappye, op de kuste en in het keizerrijk van Taising of Sina: behelzende het tweede gezandschap aen den onder-koning Singlamong en veldheer Taising Lipoui; door Jan van Kampen en Konstantyn Nobel. Vervolgt met een verhael van het voorgevallen des jaers zestien hondert drie ein vier en zestig, op de kust van Sina, en ontrent d'eilanden Tayowan, Formosa, Ay en Quemuy, onder 't gezag van Balthasar Bort: en het derde gezandschap aen Konchy, Tartarsche keizer van Sina en Oost-Tartarye: onder beleit van Zijne Ed. Pieter van Hoorn. Beneffens een beschryving van geheel Sina. Verciert doorgaens met verscheide kopere platen : Dapper, Olfert, 1639-1689 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

''Gedenkwaerdig bedryf der Nederlandche Oost-indische Maatschattpye etc.''

For the non Dutchies here: basicly we are sending an envoy to Konchy (the new emperor of Eastern Tartary and China) to get the following:

1) That the Dutch with as many ships as they deem nessacery, sail to and freely trade within Tayzing.

2) That the Dutch ships from Quantung, Singcheu, Hokfieuw, Ningpo and Hangkfieuw are allowed to trade.

3) That the Dutch are allowed to trade with whomever, without being forced to pay extra or having a chance it gets confestated.

4) That the silk and the silk fabrics will be allowed to be bought and sold by the Dutch to everyone, except to the specific ''enemies'' of the emperor. Of which the ambassador should inform the Dutch, for they want to completely abide the will of the emperor.

5) That whenever Dutch ships arrive, they can freely bargain and leave whenever desired.

6) That at any time all the Dutch are allowed to buy food and supplies, and transport them to their ships.

7) That the Dutch are always allowed to hire capable living stock, to stay at and safe their wares. Preferably in a fire proof area.

8) That the points mentioned have to be ratified with a letter and seal from the emperor himself


The book contains 3 envoys, as the first 2 never reached emperor Konchy himself.


The book also includes a description of the places visited, along with the lay out, animals, housing, religion etc.


I will update this post later on.

Have a great day!
M
 

chasm470

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Is it possible that Tartaria existed not to long ago. Many buildings we see in our country may have been already built before the pioneers and Christopher Columbus landed here on American soil. Ive heard some people say the Brooklyn Bridge and several manhatten buildings were already built. Many buildings and mansions built in California before anyone moved west in search for gold. Free energy transit systems and trolly's. Everything we have been told is a lie.
 

davtash

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Is it possible that Tartaria existed not to long ago. Many buildings we see in our country may have been already built before the pioneers and Christopher Columbus landed here on American soil. Ive heard some people say the Brooklyn Bridge and several manhatten buildings were already built. Many buildings and mansions built in California before anyone moved west in search for gold. Free energy transit systems and trolly's. Everything we have been told is a lie.
Yes agree entirely, everything I look at happened in the 1800s later rather than earlier.Today in class we were looking at Crystal Palace London, the visits of the russian Tsar to Victoria, everything. All the world fairs including my own in Bradford UK 1904 -any Bradfordians out there? Even the first Bradford has a 8 pointed star on its front. Looking at all the Royals Palaces in UK all my class know now they are Tartarian. Are the Historians asleep, or eyes wide shut (ews) with soma or similar? I walked around for the whole of my life reading the great history books, even teaching it, travelled to 47 countries but noticed nothing - ews. Currently showing in school Seven Years in Tibet and reading The tibet Lhasa thread on here at the same time as remembering that the current Dalai is said to be Muslim at birth? Orphan Trains. the works! What happened? Ass an aside to my rambling , soon a new series of All Creatures Great and Small going to be made in Little Germany, Bradford, Tartaria
 

Truth Lover

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I looked up Tartarian photographs and I see that the tall people fit right under the top of the door frames. And they are much closer to the ceilings that are so high. It becomes apparent that they were here, at least some of them, after cameras were discovered because they got photographed.

My maternal grandparents lived in a house with a huge, wide, very tall, thick, wooden front door. On Lake Erie near Cleveland. A deep red brick mansion supposedly built in 1925, but looking old to me when I was young in 1960.

I now think it was Tartarian, due to the architecture, the high doorways and ceilings, the copper Dormer, the woodwork with Gargoyles in the huge entrance room/foyer, chubby angelic paintings (?) on the 3rd floor curved ceiling, a very unusual underground air conditioning system and even a jail cell in the basement.

Having read earlier that iron might be an EMF deterrent of antiquity, perhaps what I perceived as a jail cell with iron bars was actually a safe spot. But it looked like a jail cell and I was horrified when I went down there and saw it. I asked my grandmother what it was for and she said to lock up the liquor so the servants wouldn't steal it. I did not believe her.
 

kd-755

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I looked up Tartarian photographs and I see that the tall people fit right under the top of the door frames. And they are much closer to the ceilings that are so high. It becomes apparent that they were here, at least some of them, after cameras were discovered because they got photographed.
I live in a house where the ceiling is 9 feet off of the floor. All doorways are 6 feet 6 inches by 2 feet 6 inches. The house was built in 1909 or 1910, it was first sold in 1910, I've read the deeds. This does not mean people them were taller than people today.
I have two sons one is five feet eleven inches tall the other is five feet six inches tall like me, their mother is five feet five inches tall.

My mother was born in 1933 in a brand new council house where the ceilings are 7 feet 6 inches off of the floor and the door openings are 6 feet 6 inches by 2 feet 6 inches wide. My mother was five feet three inches tall. My father was five feet 7 inches tall my brother is five feet ten inches tall.
Point being ceiling height is no indicator of the height of people who were alive prior to us.
 
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Will Scarlet

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Personally I think the whole Tartaria thing has now become a meme and a meaningless one at that. Sure there was a place called Tartaria once, well, according to old maps and it's referenced in various texts, but it wasn't the whole world. There were a great many ancient civilisations who are all now lumped together under the label 'Tartaria' just because they have... what? Buildings? Gosh, imagine that, they all have buildings so they must all be part of the same place. This is over-simplistic, in my personal view and also hides far more than it reveals.
 

kd-755

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In an earlier incarnation a chap known as sonoman and I both came to the same position independent of each other that Tartarian is nothing more than a label given to those outside of the Jesuit world view. Done so as Tartarus is said to be the lowest pit of Hell occupied by the worst demons imaginable so by association the newly indoctrinated come to believe like the truly indoctrinated that the demons of hell manifest as the people of Tartary and must be slain and dispossessed of their demons by the sword of the Jesuit to save their souls as they die and by happenstance transfer all the cleared land to the control of the Jesuit hierarchy.
Pure speculation of course but makes a lot of sense to me given the elusive nature of 'the greatest empire the world has ever seen' (aren't they all!).
 

Silveryou

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It is for Tartary as for any other nation on Earth. What is an American? Someone who is born on a continent in the Northern emisphere (even though we have South and Central America too) but more specifically in a state called U.S.A but sometimes U.S. but sometimes United States and so on. And inhabited by people of different races, with different religions and different habits that magically cohexist under some flag which changes from time to time with the changing of its values determined by people who don't show their faces. And Americans continue to believe to be Americans nonetheless. The same goes obviously for any other nation.
Being "ancient", the Tartars could have been at least in the beginning a unique people with its own culture and genetics, but after their success their name was used by everyone so claiming the Tartars did this or that without explanations is totally useless in my opinion
 

HELLBOY

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Personally I think the whole Tartaria thing has now become a meme and a meaningless one at that. Sure there was a place called Tartaria once, well, according to old maps and it's referenced in various texts, but it wasn't the whole world. There were a great many ancient civilisations who are all now lumped together under the label 'Tartaria' just because they have... what? Buildings? Gosh, imagine that, they all have buildings so they must all be part of the same place. This is over-simplistic, in my personal view and also hides far more than it reveals.

Today it could be said that there are 193 countries that are recognized members of the UN, but we all know well who pulls the strings of power worldwide, even forming two large blocs. I want to think that that's what they mean by Tartaria, as the country that moved the strings without having to occupy the whole world.
 

kd-755

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but we all know well who pulls the strings of power worldwide, even forming two large blocs.
Well I for one have no idea who pulls the strings. That there is a small group of sting pullers or even just one man pulling the strings or a family of string pullers seems pretty obvious to even the most blinded after the events of 2020 and current but who they are still anonymous and invisible, unless you know something and would care to let us in?
 

HELLBOY

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but we all know well who pulls the strings of power worldwide, even forming two large blocs.
Well I for one have no idea who pulls the strings. That there is a small group of sting pullers or even just one man pulling the strings or a family of string pullers seems pretty obvious to even the most blinded after the events of 2020 and current but who they are still anonymous and invisible, unless you know something and would care to let us in?
I mean who can print money out of thin air and generate inflation and lead to continuous war to get out of that inflation, what will be the next war is the question? Do you remember those of the last 20 years?
They tell us that they work for peace, but society works for war.
We go from one war to another, because it is the need of the economic system. The economic system inflates, explodes!
There is a crisis and to solve it a war is waged, all the products have gone and the companies are not doing business, the companies that continue to rise are those of arms sales.
In this way, how can you fight for peace? You can't change the world but maybe you can start to change it, how? starting to change the system.
It's possible? it seems very difficult as things are presenting themselves.
We are already immersed in a life very similar to the one posed 100 years ago in George Orwell's novel.
Orwell between 1947 and 1948 and published on June 8, 1949. The novel popularized the concepts of the omnipresent and vigilant Big Brother or Big Brother
Many analysts detect parallels between today's society and the 1984 world of the novel, the futuristic world is divided into three superpowers that live in a permanent state of war: Oceania, Eurasia and East Asia. Oceania.
1920px-1984_fictitious_world_map_v2_quad.svg.png

Orwell's novel brilliantly illustrates the ways in which an individual is affected by a repressive government or an autocratic figure and how this affects all aspects of their life, from their thoughts, desires, personal and family relationships, the way they you may or may not move your body and even your sexuality.
Every totalitarian government aims to control thinking: What do the propaganda and the media say? What can citizens comment in public? What opinion do citizens have of the dictator or monarch?
The consequences are devastating to the point that they destroy, perhaps, the only thing that distinguishes the human being: memory and memories, dreams and desires, personal tastes and opinions, and of course, the ability to question, criticize, think.
Winston the character:
Winston's work, rewriting history, shows how The Party destroys the past along with all the literature and documentation that may exist on it, and republishes it according to its current truth.
His work, rewriting the past, illustrates how memory is destroyed and with it, the only source of historical coherence that allows maintaining mental health: there is no external, objective source that accounts for what has happened in the past ( even if it is only a couple of days), and how this cannot be commented, it remains only in his memory and therefore, it may well not have happened.
Not only does the Party make Winston doubt himself, but it is he who must censor himself and engage in incoherent practices, such as doublethinking, which consists in thinking that two contradictory ideas are true at the same time. Doublethink is defined as:
Knowing and not knowing, being aware of what is really true while telling carefully crafted lies, simultaneously holding two opinions knowing that they are contradictory and yet believing in both; employ logic against logic.
The three great states are waging an "eternal" war. This war is characterized by the fact that there are always two nations that ally against the other and always some nation ends up betraying its ally to ally itself with its enemy. The three nations do not believe in victory and do not want the war to end, since the objective of the war is to keep the people poor, ignorant and transmit all the hatred they feel for their precariousness against foreign countries. Maintaining arms production, practically the only type of abundant production in this dystopia, also causes a continuous state of war between the three superstates, which must continue to maintain this industry at all costs. Nineteen Eighty-Four - Wikipedia

HB: No newspaper ever faithfully tells how things happen, I saw for the first time press reports that had no relation to the facts, history was being written not from the point of view of what had happened, but from the point of view of what had to have happened along the different "party lines." It is very likely that these lies, or in any case other equivalents, go down in history.
"Who controls the past, controls the future and who controls the future, will control the present."
The earliest records of monarchs declaring themselves gods, with the monarchs of Mesopotamia and Egypt. Today this type of leader cult can be found in North Korea, where Kim Jong-un, his late father, Kim Jong-il, and his grandfather, who established the regime, are worshiped. Government propaganda teaches that they have food, clothing, and any other benefit, only by the "grace" of their dictators. It is the only imperial cult still in force.

I have read here SH that the Tartars probably did not profess the cult of money, perhaps they did not need to eat in the absence of bathrooms in the houses, they built splendidly as if money were not a problem, there was abundant technology apparently. Do you think that the Tartars have also practiced the historical sense to other previous peoples? Do you think they had an ideal government system, better than ours? With all these advances, people never miss the question, if they were as technologically advanced as they were defeated? Certainly they have done everything possible to hide how it happened and who did it, we only have the small loose ends that arise from observing the inconsistencies of construction at the time, technology among the folklore of each country, civilizations that are not known, it turns out that they share similarities in symbols, legends, architecture, etc. I don't know who pulls those strings, but I do know the systems that rule the world. The country that has natural resources seems to be able to survive in this way a little better than those that do not have them, while those that develop technology have control, now imagine having the money that will be the world currency? That makes you the one who is closest to standing out from all the leaders and setting the tone. The funny thing is that countries that worked together to destroy Tartary now form two rival sides, that if it was like that. Both sides however worked together to rewrite history, doesn't that seem strange to you? Well it's just some thoughts that came to my mind at the time and I think I wrote a lot, maybe I'm wrong in many things, but that's the good thing about dialogue for me, seeing the different ways of thinking.
 

Will Scarlet

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Tartaria, as the country that moved the strings without having to occupy the whole world.

You could substitute the word "China" for Tartaria in that statement and change it to "pulls the strings".

Whatever Tartaria was, if representative of a worldwide culture, I would hope that it was beyond string pulling.
 

HELLBOY

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The truth is that this Korben thread touches on quite a few topics in a single topic, I provide some maps, texts, inconsistencies, but it is difficult to reach a conclusion since all we know about this region is that they were barbarians and China was the most technologically advanced to the rest of the world in the past, how is it that it is not running the world at this time says this thread https://stolenhistory.net/threads/why-is-china-not-centuries-ahead-of-the-world-in-technology.2308/
Today's geo-politicians say of the current great power of China, however, militarily Russia and the US are far ahead of them.
How curious a Geo-politician thinks of a possible conflict between India and China.
 

Silveryou

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The problem with Tartaria, whether the usual moralists may like it or not, is to determine their race. Their name and culture corresponds to a "Semitic" origin, making them akin to the modern Tatars and Turks more than anything else. Modern historians present them as Mongols and therefore "Chinese" looking. Now we are considering the possiility of a Northern Asian/Siberian or even Russian origin, making them "Caucasian". I bet the "Indian" Moghol version is on its way.
 

fabiorem

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Turks are not semitic, they are turanians, like the magyars and fino-ugric peoples.
 

Silveryou

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Turks are not semitic, they are turanians, like the magyars and fino-ugric peoples.
I can agree with you if you talk about origins. But Turks nowadays are clearly more semitic than anything else. I don't want to be too specific about this, but it's clear that they have lost the typical finno-ugric traits! And so they could easliy claim that Tartars are Semitic, also pointing to the fact that Muslim culture and habits adopted by the Tartars are clearly prevalent in the Middle-East and absent in northern regions. So I think the confusion stems by the overlapping of all these factors. According to Iranian tradition and images, Muhammad was a Chinese looking person. How is it possible?
Battle_of_Badr.jpg
 

Will Scarlet

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Turks nowadays are clearly more semitic than anything else.

Are you referring to the Donmeh who also became the House of Saud? They would be more of an elite than Turkish people in general wouldn't they?
 

Silveryou

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Turks nowadays are clearly more semitic than anything else.

Are you referring to the Donmeh who also became the House of Saud? They would be more of an elite than Turkish people in general wouldn't they?
Oh no, nothing too specific as I said. I was only remarking that the Islamic world is semitic in essence, and since there are many clues about a sort of "Persian look" to the Tartarian and Muscovite way of life, it seems to me that the semitic world (through Turks and Tatars) can claim Tartary to be essentially a land conquered/subjected by semitic Muslims. It is one side of the prism!
 
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