The Downfall of Classical Music

freygeist

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There are two major art forms of the lost culture. Performing arts and Visual arts. Now, one can argue forever which form is more profound in enlightening and raising the human soul. Being a musician myself, i have to say Music is the highest form of Art. Its the direct language of God.

We hear this, when we listen to the old european masters of Classical Music, we get a sense of ultimate glory, but also the opposite, ultimate despair.

Here are two examples form the great Ludwig van Beethoven, showing that dualism:

Glory

Despair

The classical age of music is commonly divided between the Baroque Era, the actual Classical Era (Wiener Klassik), and the Romantic Era, and the predecessor ages are rather obscure which is interesting, because we have this huge amount of musical literature of ca 300 years, but nothing substantial before that, and even of the remaining literature much manuscripts are lost, and we only have published first editions.
To this day this music is considered of the highest virtue, and one has to work deeply to understand and fully deliver this music. It is essentially a task for your whole life, as most old pianists age like fine wine, and delivered truly eternal performances, like music out of other spheres.

Now lets take the rabbit hole into consideration:

Composers like Mozart and Bach delivered not only music of the highest quality, but also quantity. While being stylistically different, they both excelled in every musical genre, from vocal to instrumental, and left a vast legacy behind, and every later composer is somehow influenced by these two. Bach was known for applying essential elements of nature in his music, like the "proportia divina", meaning that by 2/3 in the piece the culmination of the melodic and harmonic progression would happen.
Beethoven is considered the most important composer for the transition between the Classical and the Romantic Era. We see a great in shift in music traditions in the romantic time, as the form got shorter and the "Sonatenhaupsatzform" was more and more abandoned that meant, music got simpler, and this process was heavily intensified in the so called modern era of music, still going on to our time.

The classical era of music, like the architecture of the cathedrals and star forts, belong to the Old Realm, and the shift in the style of it, correlates to the timeframe of the reset, so here is a possible approach, to what might have occured:

The Baroque and partly classical age were pre Reset. Beethoven was the composer, living in the time of the transition from classical to romantic Era, that is the supposed time of the reset (1750-1850) . He actually lived through it, but went deaf during the events of the cataclysm/war/revolution. The romantic/modern era is post reset.

Let's back this up with a bit information about Beethoven and how his successors viewed him.
First of Beethoven is very distinct to Mozart and Bach, as he tried to outdo his predecessors very early on, in regards to technical mastery of the player, but was also considered, to be sometimes a bit rough and shocking.
But still every other composer after Beethoven, never got some things right, as he was a master in composing large 3-4 part pieces of the sonata form, essentially maintaining the pace and correlation of the contrasting thematic material. Even composers like Chopin, who scolded him for his roughness, and were more amazed of Bach and Mozart, could never repeat the feats he still possessed, and the romantic era devolved into what we know as "virtuosity" or technical showmanship. Meaning the divine element of music, got more and more replaced by superficiality and a drill mentality.

But that process happened slowly and the early and mid romantic is full of suffering pieces, longing for a past age, many pieces by Chopin reflect this.
Modern history says it was about the fall of the polish state in the official timeline, but these pieces reflect something much grander, and the hope to restore, what was lost, listen to the famous g-minor ballade, according to old lore, the saddest key.

There is so much to recover about our glorious lost culture, when you listen to classical music, so i like to conclude with the great eternal masterpiece of Mozart, pls enjoy:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lhjszZNZvk
 
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Akanah

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In my opinion classic music is typical for mythology ancient stories. Former natural music of simple humans are music with drums, didgeridoo and guitars which speaks to my heart. If I listening to classic music I ever had the bad Feeling of dramatic events. That´s the reason I believe classic music is too exaggerated.
 

freygeist

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In my opinion classic music is typical for mythology ancient stories. Former natural music of simple humans are music with drums, didgeridoo and guitars which speaks to my heart. If I listening to classic music I ever had the bad Feeling of dramatic events. That´s the reason I believe classic music is too exaggerated.

Yes, i would call the romantic era certainly exaggerated, but listen to Bach and Mozart, and its natural beauty, compared to for example the pompous Tschaikowsky, there is a big difference in style.
 

dreamtime

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In my opinion classic music is typical for mythology ancient stories. Former natural music of simple humans are music with drums, didgeridoo and guitars which speaks to my heart. If I listening to classic music I ever had the bad Feeling of dramatic events. That´s the reason I believe classic music is too exaggerated.
I would say the simple drum based music is the music of the shamans and primitive societies, it connects us with the underworld (or parts of our own subconscious)

The old classical music is the music of the gods, it elevates to higher realms.
 

wommak

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Being a musician myself, i have to say Music is the highest form of Art. Its the direct language of God.

We hear this, when we listen to the old european masters of Classical Music, we get a sense of ultimate glory, but also the opposite, ultimate despair.
I can very relate to that. I am no musician by all means but I play instruments and i feel 'it' the Sound. First thing comes to my mind when thinking classical music is this: Toccatta in D minor of Bach played on organs in those 'churches' and having to listen to that live in those buildings. Must have been magnificents to experience at those real times.
 
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freygeist

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What do you think of folk music?
That's a very good question. Folk music as we know consists mainly of short songs, and interestingly evolved in the romantic era, and has a direct connection to modern form of Pop music. But if we think in the sense of the word, they are a collective form of melodies and phrases, predating the classical era.
 

dreamtime

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It is well known that classical music is very prominent among the higher ups of society. They also like to dwell in the old world buildings. I think both the music as well as the architecture has a 'structuring' effect on humans (and on human cells). The basic concepts of biology are structure and energy (form and function), and how both relate to each other. The right structure supports energy, and energy is the foundation of life.
 

freygeist

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I can very relate to that. I am no musician by all means but I play instruments and i feel 'it' the Sound. First thing comes to my mind when thinking classical music is this: Toccatta in D minor of Beethoven played on organs in those 'churches' and having to listen to that live in those buildings. Must have been magnificents to experience at those real times.
Sorry but the music nerd has to correct you, its from Bach, and that isn't even really clear ^^ But a magnificent piece nonetheless.
It is well known that classical music is very prominent among the higher ups of society. They also like to dwell in the old world buildings. I think both the music as well as the architecture has a 'structuring' effect on humans (and on human cells). The basic concepts of biology are structure and energy (form and function), and how both relate to each other. The right structure supports energy, and energy is the foundation of life.

Yes, music still has this energy, and the fact that they raised the "Kammerton" (concert pitch) from ca 400 to 440 hertz after the second world war, was to diminish the effect of the divine music.
 
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Lightseeker

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This is the kind of thread I can contribute to, because like the OP, I am also a musician.

Classical music is no doubt the highest form of music. One has to be a musician to appreciate someone like J.S.Bach. As someone with a very fine-tuned ear, I find his music to be the closest there is to something divine in art. In my experience only Ravel can come close.

Bach wrote things that make me scratch my head, because of how difficult it would be for any modern musician to replicate such feats. Bach's "the musical offering" is proof of him having been a real master. Let us not forget that he was a virtuoso of the organ and was an excellent improviser as well.

Nowadays classical musicians are merely performers. Ask a classical musician to improvise or compose. Not going to happen. What made a Paganini or a Liszt so scary is that they were able to improvise and surprise.

Did classical music experience a certain downfall? Certainly. It is called modernism. Stravinsky is perhaps the only listenable one of the composers of the modern era. Schoenberg is unlistenable for the most part. Other modern composers, especially those of the "new classical complexity" movement, are literally writing garbage.

Music has a tremendous effect on people. I won't go on detail into how music moves us. It moves the body when it is danceable, but it can also energize us. Many times I have felt sad and powerless but then I heard a beautiful piece by Bach or by Ravel and my heart filled with joy, my eyes almost watery due to the sheer beauty that was coming into my brain through my ears. Or I was feeling tired and I heard a great song from one of my bands and I felt inspired to do something. This is why I despise most of the music nowadays. It is vulgar. It is overly focused on simplicity (it has to sell) but also on the beat, which means, it is not meant to move the soul, but the body's lower regions. Everything is about the ass. No complexity, no content. Four chords throughout all the song, give or take. The lyrics are uninspired, the artists are just puppets for a record label. It is no wonder so many teenagers and youngsters struggle with depression, drugs and promiscuity. The music they consume tells them that it is OK to be degenerate. The music itself is degenerate and void of meaning. If you want to piss me off, force me to listen to the radio for at least one hour.

I see OP is from Germany. I lived in Germany for a while. I remember that during my stay in that country I only ever met two Germans who were legit into classical music. Much to my chagrin, the rest preferred rap, hip-hop and other degenerate types of music. I saw it as yet another sign of the degeneration of the German nation. In the country where Bach, Beethoven, Telemann, Gluck, Purzell and other greats were born, the most popular types of music are rap and hip-hop. Of course, that is not a coincidence.

I am looking forward to others' opinion on this regard.
 

wommak

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Sorry but the music nerd has to correct you, its from Bach, and that isn't even really clear ^^ But a magnificent piece nonetheless.
Yes I stand corrected Bach it is oviously I am not dumb :D Thanks!
 

freygeist

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Theodor Adorno was behind Mozart, Beethoven and Bach though
Can you elaborate on that? I'm honestly suprised, you would mention him of all people with the three masters in one sentence. Not that i have taken any offense :D
 

SonofaBor

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I've written several times in threads such as these that Bach is unparalleled. I'm glad other know the same. But, I'll listen to hours to 19th century chamber music and jazz, circa 1900-1960. Some hymns deserve repeated listening, such as "Abide with Me," "Amazing Grace," and "The Mighty Fortress is Our God." Something of pre-parasite culture, no doubt.
 

freygeist

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Theodor Adorno was behind Mozart, Beethoven and Bach though
Can you elaborate on that? I'm honestly suprised, you would mention him of all people with the three masters in one sentence. Not that i have taken any offense :D
SH Archive - Welcome to the Machine - Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here
He says Adorno, (Frankfurt School!) gave Jethro Tull the idea to make a version of Bachs Bouree, and he further explains how several modern bands recycled classical themes, that's commonly known, but i didn't know Adorno was behind it, so thanks for the info. But still, what are you saying, how was he behind Bach, Mozart and Beethoven?
 

Silveryou

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Theodor Adorno was behind Mozart, Beethoven and Bach though
Can you elaborate on that? I'm honestly suprised, you would mention him of all people with the three masters in one sentence. Not that i have taken any offense :D
SH Archive - Welcome to the Machine - Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here
He says Adorno, (Frankfurt School!) gave Jethro Tull the idea to make a version of Bachs Bouree, and he further explains how several modern bands recycled classical themes, that's commonly known, but i didn't know Adorno was behind it, so thanks for the info. But still, what are you saying, how he was behind Bach, Mozart and Beethoven?
No no. Just continue the reading of that thread. I don't know anything of music, just reminded that thread because it became memorable. for me at least:LOL:
 

freygeist

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Theodor Adorno was behind Mozart, Beethoven and Bach though
Can you elaborate on that? I'm honestly suprised, you would mention him of all people with the three masters in one sentence. Not that i have taken any offense :D
SH Archive - Welcome to the Machine - Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here
He says Adorno, (Frankfurt School!) gave Jethro Tull the idea to make a version of Bachs Bouree, and he further explains how several modern bands recycled classical themes, that's commonly known, but i didn't know Adorno was behind it, so thanks for the info. But still, what are you saying, how he was behind Bach, Mozart and Beethoven?
No no. Just continue the reading of that thread. I don't know anything of music, just reminded that thread because it became memorable. for me at least:LOL:
Yeah i did that, and they go further on and on about modern bands recycled classical themes, but nothing about Adorno was behind the old masters. That doesn't make any sense. He surely may have exploited their works, but he didn't compose that stuff.
 
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Lightseeker

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Theodor Adorno was behind Mozart, Beethoven and Bach though
Can you elaborate on that? I'm honestly suprised, you would mention him of all people with the three masters in one sentence. Not that i have taken any offense :D
SH Archive - Welcome to the Machine - Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here
He says Adorno, (Frankfurt School!) gave Jethro Tull the idea to make a version of Bachs Bouree, and he further explains how several modern bands recycled classical themes, that's commonly known, but i didn't know Adorno was behind it, so thanks for the info. But still, what are you saying, how he was behind Bach, Mozart and Beethoven?
No no. Just continue the reading of that thread. I don't know anything of music, just reminded that thread because it became memorable. for me at least:LOL:
Yeah i did that, and they go further on and on about modern bands recycled classical themes, but nothing about Adorno was behind the old masters. That doesn't make any sense. He surely may have exploited their works, but he didn't compose that stuff.
The OP in that thread didn't make sense at all. I wrote a few counterarguments which he wasn't able to refute.

Anyways, who cares? Adorno was probably the mastermind behind ancient Sumerian chants, as well as the Popol Vuh.
 

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