SH Archive Tolkien and The Bock Saga OP Username
Paracelsus OP Date
2018-09-14 03:40:34 Reaction Score
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Archive Archive
Sep 8, 2020
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I didn't know where to put this thread exactly, I figure Tolkien's name has far more caché than Ior Bock's - so books it is!

J.R.R. Tolkien couldn't possibly require any introduction around here, but he may require a radical re-appraisal. As the "official" story goes Tolkien began forming and writing the cosmology of Middle-Earth in his tent during WWI. This is where he came up with the supreme God (Eru Ilúvatar/Aulé) and the lesser gods (Ainur/Valar) of Middle Earth (Eä/Arda). The book in which this mythos is brought to life is undoubtedly Tolkien's magnum opus, it is of course - The Silmarillion. It goes back to back to the point of primordial nothingness, where Eru Ilúvatar creates the Ainur to sing the song of creation.

Now, here's where reality gives Tolkien a run for his considerable posthumous estate.

The Bock Saga
Abstract: Ior Bock, the last of the Bock Family lineage is the official story keeper of humanity. His family line goes back thousands of years to the very origins of humanity's root races. This was when "We" could all access the Shamballa-like land around the central mountain of Earth.

This is where the speculation about Tolkien begins to tie in. In addition to being a prolific writer, Tolkien was also a prolific linguistics researcher who spent a fair amount of time in Scandinavia and Finland in particular. For those who aren't aware, the Finnish language is quite the conundrum. It is part of a larger language grouping called Finno-Ugaritic, Ugarit being an ancient port city in modern day Syria. Finno-Ugaritic is part of the Semitic language base that includes Akkadian, Chaldean, Babylonian, Assyrian, Phoenician, and the oldest of all Sumerian. Even more tantalizing is how modern Finnish allegedly has more in common with Sumerian syntactically than Akkadian did 5000 years ago.

Who would have known about these linguistic intricacies and subtleties?

There are many theories that he received a deeper, secret oral version of the Kalevala and the Eddas. The Kalevala being the foundational mythology of Finland.
The Kalevala Index

Even to the casual observer Gandalf is Väinämöinen, and I'd doubt Tolkien would refute it. He might even insultingly say something to the effect of "congratulations you can read." [As an aside; from Tolkien's private correspondences he seemed like a cranky dude]

There are many links here, but I'd recommend starting with the Bock Saga THC. As far as alternative research podcasts go it is really one of the best out there. I'm not shilling for it, I just respect the consistent quality. Here's the rest of what I have:
Väinämöinen: The Finnish Deity and Hero Who Inspired Tolkien to Create Gandalf and Tom Bombadil Tolkien's "The Lord of the Rings" - and Finland
The Bock Saga vs. the Lord of the Rings
Does The Bock Saga lead on to the Lord Of The Rings? - Page 5
Tolkien’s Middle-Earth, true History? - World Mysteries Blog
Note: This OP was recovered from the KeeperOfTheKnowledge archive.
Note: Archived replies to this OP: Tolkien and The Bock Saga


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Sep 16, 2020
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Virginia, USA

That is a really interesting story, I spent half of the day yesterday watching the flicks and reading. Plan to buy "Bock Saga" book...
Thank you for sharing.

Could it be considered a corroborative evidence (it was mentioned in one of the videos)?

The first president of Boston University, William Fairfield Warren (1833–1929), wrote a book promoting his belief that the original centre of mankind once sat at the North Pole entitled---Paradise Found: The Cradle of the Human Race at the North Pole (1885). In this work Warren, a professor of comparative theology and philosophy of religion, placed Atlantis at the North Pole, as well as the Garden of Eden, Mount Meru, Avalon and Hyperborea. Warren believed all these mythical lands were folk memories of a former inhabited far northern seat where man was originally created.

In introducing his book, Dr. Warren writes:

"The suggestion that primitive Eden was at the Arctic Pole seems at first sight the most incredible of all wild and willful paradoxes. And it is only within the lifetime of our own generation that the progress of geological discovery has relieved the hypothesis of fatal antecedent improbability. Moreover, when one considers the enormous variety and breadth of the fields from which its evidences of truth must be derived; when one remembers how recent are those comparative sciences on whose results the argument must chiefly depend;


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Sep 4, 2020
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I remember reading the OP on SH1.0, because the supposition of a Tolkien quote, ‘so you can read,’ stuck with me. It’s been twenty odd years since I read any Tolkien, but his prose are etched on my psyche. Anyway here is an interesting website I bookmarked at some point but haven’t had a chance to read yet. The premise of the site, from the homepage, is certainly intriguing:
Sarehole Mill, Birmingham, England, opposite which Tolkien lived as a child in the 1890s, became Sandyman’s Mill (the Old Mill) in The Lord of the Rings, and is the fixed reference point for our reconstruction of the true story of Middle-earth, as detailed below.

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