Translation of a French account of the St. Felix Flood w/ Exhortation of Why The World is Seeing so Many Calamities.

Joined
Jan 14, 2021
Messages
15
Reaction score
89
Site:
www.youtube.com
This french book from 1530 on Gallica.fr recounts stories from the devastating St. Felix flood with an additional separate section wondering why the world is going through so many fantastic events at the same time. This flood happened only one month after the flood of Rome, and killed between 100-400K! This flood effected a wide area that included England which I go through in the video, and is not in the text, FYI.

I produced a video on about my translation, and I will provide my pastebin link to the translated text.

View: https://youtu.be/t7iqiXNtTko


Pastebin Link:

View: https://pastebin.com/jX3tHQ35
 

OfTheBrave

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2020
Messages
13
Reaction score
47
This french book from 1530 on Gallica.fr recounts stories from the devastating St. Felix flood with an additional separate section wondering why the world is going through so many fantastic events at the same time. This flood happened only one month after the flood of Rome, and killed between 100-400K! This flood effected a wide area that included England which I go through in the video, and is not in the text, FYI.

I produced a video on about my translation, and I will provide my pastebin link to the translated text.

View: https://youtu.be/t7iqiXNtTko


Pastebin Link:

View: https://pastebin.com/jX3tHQ35
Thanks for the translation. Very interesting account with interesting small details in there.
I wanted to take a look for myself at the part about "that flying dragon that you can see over a few leagues making a lot of noise, darkening the sky "
I also checked the sentence you mentioned which ends abruptly.

Disclaimer, I do not speak french, however I do play at etymology quite a bit.
French account of the St. Felix Flood underlined.png

In Black: the sentence as it appears in the book (my best attempt)
In Blue: My literal translation
Below that is my figurative translation.

Uussi en Lombardie en la pleine de Bergame nest il pas tumber une greffe tenat
_______ -in----Lombardy---in the - plain---of --Bergamo, not did it pass, tumbled--a----graft----held
espesse de fer faict et carre a la manier dug de
the weight of iron made it square of the manner dug there.

(Also) in Lombardy in the plain of Bergamo, where it didn't pass, tumbled a graft of the weight of iron, square shaped, which is the way it was dug up.

My best guess is that, whatever fell to earth, resembled iron (though they weren't sure) and that it was square in shape when they dug it up.
Interesting stuff!

Let me know what you think of my translation and thanks again for the interesting document!
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2021
Messages
15
Reaction score
89
Site:
www.youtube.com
In Black: the sentence as it appears in the book (my best attempt)
In Blue: My literal translation
Below that is my figurative translation.

Uussi en Lombardie en la pleine de Bergame nest il pas tumber une greffe tenat
_______ -in----Lombardy---in the - plain---of --Bergamo, not did it pass, tumbled--a----graft----held
espesse de fer faict et carre a la manier dug de
the weight of iron made it square of the manner dug there.

(Also) in Lombardy in the plain of Bergamo, where it didn't pass, tumbled a graft of the weight of iron, square shaped, which is the way it was dug up.

My best guess is that, whatever fell to earth, resembled iron (though they weren't sure) and that it was square in shape when they dug it up.
Interesting stuff!

Let me know what you think of my translation and thanks again for the interesting document!
[/QUOTE]

A valiant attempt! The words we don't know are the "Dug de". The rest of the sentence is as translated the best we could. Translating some of these documents is actually much harder than people think, especially from that time period and before. The words are spelled different, the letters are different (as you obviously know), and the Gothic calligraphy is just a pain in the ass, lol. For not knowing French you did a decent job. A few corrections: tumber= tomber(modern french version)= fall/fell, and espesse = pieces.

As for the last two words we don't know, the grammatical accent above the "U" (from dug) indicates that this is probably a shortened word from a longer form. I wish it meant dug, but I highly doubt it. This is very common with older writings, where some words have shorthand for their suffixes. So one has to figure out the more common ones, otherwise, getting stuck on words, even when one knows the language is still crazy difficult. Even the sentence structure can be different, and often repetitive.

Either way, I appreciate your effort on this! Thank you for sharing!
 

OfTheBrave

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2020
Messages
13
Reaction score
47
In Black: the sentence as it appears in the book (my best attempt)
In Blue: My literal translation
Below that is my figurative translation.

Uussi en Lombardie en la pleine de Bergame nest il pas tumber une greffe tenat
_______ -in----Lombardy---in the - plain---of --Bergamo, not did it pass, tumbled--a----graft----held
espesse de fer faict et carre a la manier dug de
the weight of iron made it square of the manner dug there.

(Also) in Lombardy in the plain of Bergamo, where it didn't pass, tumbled a graft of the weight of iron, square shaped, which is the way it was dug up.

My best guess is that, whatever fell to earth, resembled iron (though they weren't sure) and that it was square in shape when they dug it up.
Interesting stuff!

Let me know what you think of my translation and thanks again for the interesting document!


A valiant attempt! The words we don't know are the "Dug de". The rest of the sentence is as translated the best we could. Translating some of these documents is actually much harder than people think, especially from that time period and before. The words are spelled different, the letters are different (as you obviously know), and the Gothic calligraphy is just a pain in the ass, lol. For not knowing French you did a decent job. A few corrections: tumber= tomber(modern french version)= fall/fell, and espesse = pieces.

As for the last two words we don't know, the grammatical accent above the "U" (from dug) indicates that this is probably a shortened word from a longer form. I wish it meant dug, but I highly doubt it. This is very common with older writings, where some words have shorthand for their suffixes. So one has to figure out the more common ones, otherwise, getting stuck on words, even when one knows the language is still crazy difficult. Even the sentence structure can be different, and often repetitive.

Either way, I appreciate your effort on this! Thank you for sharing!

[/QUOTE]
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Just realized that the first word is "Aussi" not Uussi which is where you got "also" from.
Yeah, that calligraphy is tough sometimes.

I have to say, I prefer literal translation generally as opposed to figurative.
Even in this very minor instance of "tomber" when you substitute "to fall" rather than "tumble" I feel like you lose something.
I get that if you ask someone how to say "fall" in french they will reply "tomber" but I would also submit that if you asked them how to say "tumble" in french they would say "tomber" which is quite plainly the same word in both languages.

Just for clarification, when someone says "I took a tumble" I don't envision that they "danced with contortions" as is suggested in the below screenshot, I imagine that they fell wildly or uncontrollably which is what I pictured the object doing when I translated the excerpt from the book you linked.
Tumble.png

Hope that doesn't all seem too pedantic.

Anyway, last thing of note, I should have recognized the word "espesse" as "pieces" or (es pesse) "this piece"!
It also brought to mind another word - Pesos which is currently defined etymologically as "weight" or "something weighed" (recall that i used "weight" for "espesse" incorrectly earlier.)
Look below
peso.png


I believe that the etymology at the top of the picture for "peso" is probably incorrect.
The lower half of the picture allows us to glean a bit of insight however.
"Peso" is more than likely shorthand for "piece of silver" or "silver piece".
Makes sense in both languages at that point, wouldn't you say?

Anyway, wanted to say again that I appreciate the insight, the book and the discussion.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2021
Messages
15
Reaction score
89
Site:
www.youtube.com
Very well presented in terms of the etymology. We do our best to translate exactly what is written, but the reality of translation is that some times writing it as it's written makes no sense. To add to that point, when you're translating older writing, there are grammatical differences, sentence structure, letters being totally different, and finally that older language is so different that we are often struck by the thought "who writes/talks like this?" LOL. I could give you countless examples if I had the time to go back and collect them all.

The word "Tomber" does also refer to stumbling, but it's generally used as the word fall in french. I guess if one saw small square discs falling out of the sky, I would imagine that it would be "tumbling" through the air due to it's shape, so I think we could both be right about how it's used.

As far as the Peso and espesse, goes, I think you're right. Spanish, French and Italian are very close to each other in terms of language. I love that you're bringing the etymology into this because I do think it's so important to understanding so much. I'm working on a huge project for my YT channel right now, and etymology certainly plays a role in navigating ancient languages, religions, concepts, and meanings. So it's very important to me as well, and I appreciate that you brought that to the conversation! As translators when we don't know something, or if we have to change a something to make more sense, we try and place a note there with an explanation.

It's been a real pleasure OfTheBrave! Thanks for your insight!
 

windmilljoe

Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2020
Messages
10
Reaction score
26
Location
The Low Lands
Interesting, thank you for the information. I live on one of the islands of Zeeland (Goerree Overflakkee, now part of Zuid-Holland/South-Holland) and the village I live in is one of the lowest points in the Netherlands, about 2 meters below sea-level. In the 80's the tide came up to the edge of the huge ring-dyke and when you looked down to the land side it looked scary as hell. Nowadays there are big water-locks so no more tide. There is a long list of flood-dates.
As for the flying dragon, I am a follower of the Electric Universe theory and their cataclysmic models fit well with your text, the dragon being an electric discharge.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 14, 2021
Messages
15
Reaction score
89
Site:
www.youtube.com
Interesting, thank you for the information. I live on one of the islands of Zeeland (Goerree Overflakkee, now part of Zuid-Holland/South-Holland) and the village I live in is one of the lowest points in the Netherlands, about 2 meters below sea-level. In the 80's the tide came up to the edge of the huge ring-dyke and when you looked down to the land side it looked scary as hell. Nowadays there are big water-locks so no more tide. There is a long list of flood-dates.
As for the flying dragon, I am a follower of the Electric Universe theory and their cataclysmic models fit well with your text, the dragon being an electric discharge.
I'm sure there is a lot buried under the sea. You may very well be right about the dragon, though would it be accompanied by sound? Thanks for your insight!
 

windmilljoe

Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2020
Messages
10
Reaction score
26
Location
The Low Lands
Interesting, thank you for the information. I live on one of the islands of Zeeland (Goerree Overflakkee, now part of Zuid-Holland/South-Holland) and the village I live in is one of the lowest points in the Netherlands, about 2 meters below sea-level. In the 80's the tide came up to the edge of the huge ring-dyke and when you looked down to the land side it looked scary as hell. Nowadays there are big water-locks so no more tide. There is a long list of flood-dates.
As for the flying dragon, I am a follower of the Electric Universe theory and their cataclysmic models fit well with your text, the dragon being an electric discharge.
I'm sure there is a lot buried under the sea. You may very well be right about the dragon, though would it be accompanied by sound? Thanks for your insight!
I don't know about sound, maybe it was far up in the sky? I did found a short list of floods.


Disasters
Throughout the centuries the Netherlands has repeatedly been confronted with storm surges. One of the first floods was in the year 838. On December 26 of that year a large part of the Northwest Netherlands was flooded due to the lack of proper dikes.

Earlier floods

Not much is known about the flood of 838. Bishop Prudentius of Troyes writes in his annals that the water was as high as the tops of the dunes. According to counts, the disaster claimed 2,437 victims.


The second known great flood is that of September 28, 1014. Not much is known about this flood either. The chronicle of the Abbey of Quedlinburg in Saxony mentions thousands of deaths as a result of the flood disaster.

First St. Elizabeth's Flood (1404).
On November 19, 1404, large parts of Flanders, Zeeland and Holland flooded. This storm surge is known as the first St. Elizabethsvloed. The damage is enormous. After earlier floods the polders are re-dyked and new parishes arise. All this was lost. The towns of IJzendijke and Hugevliet are swallowed up by the waves.

Second St. Elizabeth's Flood (1421)
On November 19, 1421, the Second St. Elizabeth's Flood caused death and destruction in Zeeland and Holland. The flood was caused by a very heavy northwestern storm combined with an extremely high storm surge. Noord-Beveland was hit hardest. So badly that Jan van Beieren - Count of Holland, Zeeland and Hainaut - exempts the area from part of the taxes to make repairs possible.




St Elizabeth’s Day vloed




Zuid-Beveland was also hit hard and the parishes on Schouwen-Duiveland were unable to pay their dues to the bishop in Utrecht in the years following the Second St. Elizabeth's Flood. This because they were busy with repairs. In the Second St. Elizabeth's Flood, 30 villages and about 2,000 lives are lost.
St Elizabeth's Day flood
St Elizabeth's flood



Sint-Felixvloed



St. Felix Flood (1530)
In 1530, the flood hit again. On November 5 of that year, large parts of Zeeland were inundated by the St. Felix Flood. Eighteen villages in the area east of Yerseke (then called East Waters) were completely swept away. The slightly higher town of Reimerswaal is left behind as a small island. Noord-Beveland and Schouwen-Duiveland are also badly hit by the Sint Felix Flood. On Noord-Beveland only the tower of Kortgene still rises above the water. Noord-Beveland can eventually be saved, but it changes into a salt marsh area. Almost 70 years after the Sint Felix flood, the first Noord-Beveland polder is re-diked.


All Saints' Flood (1570)
In 1570 the Netherlands was confronted with the All Saints' Flood. On 1 November of that year, a fierce storm raged. Numerous dikes along the Dutch coast fail. The coastal area from Flanders to Groningen and Northwestern Germany is flooded. Around Antwerp four villages disappear under a thick layer of silt, in Friesland more than 3,000 people die and Zeeland is also severely affected.
The first thing about the All Saints' Flood is that it was warned about. On the morning of the disaster, the Domains Council in Bergen op Zoom warns of "very high flooding". The warning was of little avail: the All Saints' Flood is recorded as the worst flood disaster in the history of the Netherlands.
In a letter to King Philip II the Duke of Alva writes that five sixths of Holland is under water. It is not known exactly how many people die in this flood, but it is estimated that at least 20,000 die. Tens of thousands of people become homeless and winter food supplies are destroyed.

Christmas flood (1717)
On Christmas night in 1717 a severe northwestern storm ravages the coastal area of the Netherlands, Germany and Scandinavia. An estimated 14,000 people perished. The Christmas flood is the largest flood in almost four centuries and the last major flood in the northern Netherlands. In the northern countryside the water is several meters high. The villages directly behind the sea dike are completely swept away and the city of Groningen is also flooded.


Kerstvloed




As a result of the Christmas floods there are 2,276 victims in Groningen. 1,455 houses are destroyed or severely damaged by the wild water. Water also flows into Amsterdam and Arnhem as well as the areas around Dokkum and Stavoren. In Friesland 150 people die. On the island of Vlieland, the village of West-Vlieland, which had been hit by floods before, falls victim to the water.

Storm surge of 1906
On March 12, 1906, a storm surge occurred that affected mainly Zeeland and Flanders. The flood occurred during the day so there were no casualties. However, the damage was great. Land was not lost. In Vlissingen, very high water levels were measured during this storm surge, which were not exceeded until the flood of 1953.

Zuiderzee flood
The Zuiderzee flood of 1916 is not as extensive as the earlier mentioned flood disasters, but it is the direct cause of the Zuiderzee works. On 14 January of that year a storm that had been going on for days grew into a heavy storm with wind speeds of over 100 kilometers per hour.

The Waterlandsche sea dike southwest of Marken is washed away over a length of one and a half kilometers, a dike near Edam breaks through and the same happens at the Anna Paulownapolder. The entire area around Edam, Purmerend, Broek in Waterland and Durgerdam is flooded. The lower part of the Gelderse Valley is also affected. The storm causes a great deal of damage and on Marken - protected only by low dikes - 16 people die.

The Zuiderzee flood is the reason for speeding up the decision-making process regarding the planned closure of the Zuiderzee. The plan to close off the Zuiderzee and partially reclaim the land from the sea originates with C. Lely. In his capacity as Minister of Waterways and Public Works, he calls in 1913 for the time to close off and reclaim the Zuiderzee. The First World War throws a spanner in the works and it is not until 13 June 1918 that the bill to partially reclaim the Zuiderzee is passed.
 

OfTheBrave

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2020
Messages
13
Reaction score
47
Interesting, thank you for the information. I live on one of the islands of Zeeland (Goerree Overflakkee, now part of Zuid-Holland/South-Holland) and the village I live in is one of the lowest points in the Netherlands, about 2 meters below sea-level. In the 80's the tide came up to the edge of the huge ring-dyke and when you looked down to the land side it looked scary as hell. Nowadays there are big water-locks so no more tide. There is a long list of flood-dates.
As for the flying dragon, I am a follower of the Electric Universe theory and their cataclysmic models fit well with your text, the dragon being an electric discharge.
I'm sure there is a lot buried under the sea. You may very well be right about the dragon, though would it be accompanied by sound? Thanks for your insight!
I don't know about sound, maybe it was far up in the sky? I did found a short list of floods.


Disasters
Throughout the centuries the Netherlands has repeatedly been confronted with storm surges. One of the first floods was in the year 838. On December 26 of that year a large part of the Northwest Netherlands was flooded due to the lack of proper dikes.

Earlier floods

Not much is known about the flood of 838. Bishop Prudentius of Troyes writes in his annals that the water was as high as the tops of the dunes. According to counts, the disaster claimed 2,437 victims.


The second known great flood is that of September 28, 1014. Not much is known about this flood either. The chronicle of the Abbey of Quedlinburg in Saxony mentions thousands of deaths as a result of the flood disaster.

First St. Elizabeth's Flood (1404).
On November 19, 1404, large parts of Flanders, Zeeland and Holland flooded. This storm surge is known as the first St. Elizabethsvloed. The damage is enormous. After earlier floods the polders are re-dyked and new parishes arise. All this was lost. The towns of IJzendijke and Hugevliet are swallowed up by the waves.

Second St. Elizabeth's Flood (1421)
On November 19, 1421, the Second St. Elizabeth's Flood caused death and destruction in Zeeland and Holland. The flood was caused by a very heavy northwestern storm combined with an extremely high storm surge. Noord-Beveland was hit hardest. So badly that Jan van Beieren - Count of Holland, Zeeland and Hainaut - exempts the area from part of the taxes to make repairs possible.




St Elizabeth’s Day vloed




Zuid-Beveland was also hit hard and the parishes on Schouwen-Duiveland were unable to pay their dues to the bishop in Utrecht in the years following the Second St. Elizabeth's Flood. This because they were busy with repairs. In the Second St. Elizabeth's Flood, 30 villages and about 2,000 lives are lost.
St Elizabeth's Day flood
St Elizabeth's flood



Sint-Felixvloed



St. Felix Flood (1530)
In 1530, the flood hit again. On November 5 of that year, large parts of Zeeland were inundated by the St. Felix Flood. Eighteen villages in the area east of Yerseke (then called East Waters) were completely swept away. The slightly higher town of Reimerswaal is left behind as a small island. Noord-Beveland and Schouwen-Duiveland are also badly hit by the Sint Felix Flood. On Noord-Beveland only the tower of Kortgene still rises above the water. Noord-Beveland can eventually be saved, but it changes into a salt marsh area. Almost 70 years after the Sint Felix flood, the first Noord-Beveland polder is re-diked.


All Saints' Flood (1570)
In 1570 the Netherlands was confronted with the All Saints' Flood. On 1 November of that year, a fierce storm raged. Numerous dikes along the Dutch coast fail. The coastal area from Flanders to Groningen and Northwestern Germany is flooded. Around Antwerp four villages disappear under a thick layer of silt, in Friesland more than 3,000 people die and Zeeland is also severely affected.
The first thing about the All Saints' Flood is that it was warned about. On the morning of the disaster, the Domains Council in Bergen op Zoom warns of "very high flooding". The warning was of little avail: the All Saints' Flood is recorded as the worst flood disaster in the history of the Netherlands.
In a letter to King Philip II the Duke of Alva writes that five sixths of Holland is under water. It is not known exactly how many people die in this flood, but it is estimated that at least 20,000 die. Tens of thousands of people become homeless and winter food supplies are destroyed.

Christmas flood (1717)
On Christmas night in 1717 a severe northwestern storm ravages the coastal area of the Netherlands, Germany and Scandinavia. An estimated 14,000 people perished. The Christmas flood is the largest flood in almost four centuries and the last major flood in the northern Netherlands. In the northern countryside the water is several meters high. The villages directly behind the sea dike are completely swept away and the city of Groningen is also flooded.


Kerstvloed




As a result of the Christmas floods there are 2,276 victims in Groningen. 1,455 houses are destroyed or severely damaged by the wild water. Water also flows into Amsterdam and Arnhem as well as the areas around Dokkum and Stavoren. In Friesland 150 people die. On the island of Vlieland, the village of West-Vlieland, which had been hit by floods before, falls victim to the water.

Storm surge of 1906
On March 12, 1906, a storm surge occurred that affected mainly Zeeland and Flanders. The flood occurred during the day so there were no casualties. However, the damage was great. Land was not lost. In Vlissingen, very high water levels were measured during this storm surge, which were not exceeded until the flood of 1953.

Zuiderzee flood
The Zuiderzee flood of 1916 is not as extensive as the earlier mentioned flood disasters, but it is the direct cause of the Zuiderzee works. On 14 January of that year a storm that had been going on for days grew into a heavy storm with wind speeds of over 100 kilometers per hour.

The Waterlandsche sea dike southwest of Marken is washed away over a length of one and a half kilometers, a dike near Edam breaks through and the same happens at the Anna Paulownapolder. The entire area around Edam, Purmerend, Broek in Waterland and Durgerdam is flooded. The lower part of the Gelderse Valley is also affected. The storm causes a great deal of damage and on Marken - protected only by low dikes - 16 people die.

The Zuiderzee flood is the reason for speeding up the decision-making process regarding the planned closure of the Zuiderzee. The plan to close off the Zuiderzee and partially reclaim the land from the sea originates with C. Lely. In his capacity as Minister of Waterways and Public Works, he calls in 1913 for the time to close off and reclaim the Zuiderzee. The First World War throws a spanner in the works and it is not until 13 June 1918 that the bill to partially reclaim the Zuiderzee is passed.
What's up with that Christmas day flood sketch dating?
Not to be too off topic but,
1717 then J7j8?

I don't get why someone would switch formats like that.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2021
Messages
15
Reaction score
89
Site:
www.youtube.com
What's up with that Christmas day flood sketch dating?
Not to be too off topic but,
1717 then J7j8?

I don't get why someone would switch formats like that.
[/QUOTE]

That is weird, good eye!
 

windmilljoe

Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2020
Messages
10
Reaction score
26
Location
The Low Lands
As for the dating, it could well be a reset thing in where they couldn't use the J/I dating anymore and had to switch to a 1. When something is so ingrained into using one format and switching to another, mistakes could be made...?
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2021
Messages
15
Reaction score
89
Site:
www.youtube.com
As for the dating, it could well be a reset thing in where they couldn't use the J/I dating anymore and had to switch to a 1. When something is so ingrained into using one format and switching to another, mistakes could be made...?

Actually guys, the letter "J" didn't exists until much later. "i" was used for the sound of "J" before "J" was introduced. I have a ton of old books from the early 1500s and earlier in older French that show this clearly.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top