Earliest Alphabets – depicted in „1583 Lexicon“ by Leonhart Thurneysser

[PuzzleBear]

The book named Melitstat Kai Hermen ONOMASTICUM is a kind of Lexicon with explanations of foreign (not german) words. Some of the explanations are most interesting !!! It was allegedly☆ printed in 1583 using old german Fraktur font and it’s written in an older german language.

☆ [I doubt this was printed 439 years ago, there are hints, but that’s for when I can proove it]

Foreign Languages that are listed per groups at the end of the preface can be found in this post.

A presentation of foreign alphabets is in the annexed table in the book. But there was not enough place, so the oldest ones, the „fundamental“ were depicted after explanations of words. These 2 are, according to Thurneysser the oldest Alphabets used in Europe. The words explained are in another language than the Alphabet with which they were written.

NOTE: For greek, hebrew, arabic, …letters & words, please watch on the pic, as I cannot reproduce them.

Scytian letters (p201)

Source Pic

Zmumechos : Diß ist ein alt Griechisch Wort / This is an old greek word / doch mit alt Scithischen Buchstaben geschriebenen / but written with old Scithian letters / und bedeut (see pic), Prudentia, Fürsichtigkeit/ and means (see pic), Prudentia, prudence / Es sol dieses eines der aller eltisten Schrift seyn / This shall be one of the eldest font (or letters) / die in Europa gebraucht sein sol / that shall have been used in Europe / und sol die Carmenta ein treffelichs/heriichs und hochverstendigs Weib / and shall [have been brought by] Carmenta an excellent imperious and very intelligent woman / samt ihrem Sohne dem Evandro (die aus Griechenlandt in Tuscania / with her son Evandro (who from Greece in Tuscania / lang zuvor ehe Cadmus die Phoenizischen Buchstaben / long before Cadmus the phoenician letters/ in Griechisch geliefert / delivered in Greek / oder die lateinische Schrift erdacht worden seye / or the latin font was imagined / gebracht haben / have brought. Das Alphabet haben wir zu mehrerm bericht hieher setzen wollen. / The alphabet has been set here for further rapport / Zu end steht die ander Sort / At the end stands the other sort.​

GREECE ??! „From Greece in Tuscania“ reads as if Greece was part of Tuscania. There was not yet a country called Greece in 1583, that was founded 1829 !

The other sort (p 202)

Source Pic

Zeitimab : Ist tartarisch / Is tartarian / ist so viel als in griechischer Sprach (see pic) vel Questio / is as much as in Greek language (see pic) vel Questio / das ist ein Frage / that is a question / möchte vielleicht vom nachgesetzten griechisch Wörtlein (see pic) sein ursprung haben / might have its origin from the greek word (see pic ) set thereafter / was aber die Schrifft belangen thut / but what concerns the font / soll diß das fundament / this shall be the fundament / und aller Dalmatischen / and of all Dalmatic / Rascier / Rascian / Bulgaren / Bulgarians / Schlawoner / Slavones / Roxalaner, Roxalanians , Circasier , Circasians / und anderer Völcker erste Schriefften urhab seyn / and other folcks first font … /Derhalben wir solches Alphabet (weil es in der folgenden Tafel nicht hat Raum gehabt) zum Beschluß hieher haben setzen wollen / therefor we wanted to put this alphabet (because it had no place in the following table) here at the end / hiermit wir den Leser / we herewith [command] the reader / dem Allmechtigen Gott / the Allmighty God / biß zu besserer gelegenheit befehlen / until better opportunity​

Here ends the „Ander Theil“, the second part, so there should be an earlier first part.

The following Table of Alphabets

Translation with Latin to English

Here follows 10 foreign Alphabets, of whom there is no mention in the Onomastico. ( 10? I count 13 )

The Theban alphabet of honor, in which the author Peter Aponius wrote the magitam in book 4

The alphabet of these ancient French born vath, (no idea – no result in my latin abbreviation lexicon.)

The secret alphabet of Jaimelis Megalopius, the wisest king

The Norwegian alphabet, by the author D.Bede the priest (Nordmann = Norvegian !)

The secret alphabet of John Tritenhemius, Abbot of Spanheim

Vtopinse the alphabet, as the witness of the learned man Thomas Mauro D.Erasmus Rot: especially to his English friend / Alphabetum Vtopinse, teste doctiss (?) viro Thoma Mauro D. Erasmi Rot : praecipue amico Anglo

The alphabet of Charlemagne, as witnessed by Alcinius, Gallus, Philosoph. book about the life of the King

The alphabet explored by Pharamund, king of the Franks, through Gaul

An easy alphabet, second anonymous, noting Trittenhemius

The alphabet of a certain high alchemist, the author of Sphanheim

The Golden Alphabet which the French have seen, authored by Hunibaldo the Historiographer

Vastualdi Alphabet ??? of Kings, Dukes, and Princes for the Years Seven Hundred and Fifty-Eight
???? in his first speech wrote the author Hunibaldo

Alphabet D. Otfridi Monk of Wissenburg, Pupil of Rabani of Fulda

Source Pics​

Then there are few other Alphabets after explanations of words, of which I have just translated until now the following

Old Gottic - Gothic Alphabet (p.198)

Source pic

Teebes or Taebes : Ist eben so viel / Is as much as / Dies ist alt Göttisch / This is old gothic / Wie dann die Cur und Lyfflender / As like the Cur and Lyfflender /noch heute zu tag / still today / in ihrer Sprach / in their language / das Tebes behalten. / kept the Tebes. Das alte Göttische Alphabet ist hier verzeichnet. The old Gothic Alphabet is presentet here
​

EDIT to add:

Circonian Alphabet

​

Source pic

Valknzar : Ist ein wunderbarer Stein / Is a wonderful stone / schwarßer farb / black color/ ist rauch / is smoke / und seind gemeiniglich formirt wie ein Herß / and are commonly formed like a heart / die Raben legen die in ihre Nester auff dem Gebirg Pseuaras / the ravens lay them in their nests on the mountain of Pseuara / welche Berg Pseuaras / which mountain Pseuara / beschliessen das eusserst ort der Troglodyter / finish the outermost place of the Troglodytes / Vide Apian. & Munsterum / See Apian. & Munsterum / Diß ist Circonisch geschrieben / This is written in Circonian / welchs Alphabet hierzu geseßt ist. / which alphabet is set for this.

Secret alphabet M. Tulln Ciceronis, which was also used by St.Cyprian of Carthage, witnessed by Trittenhemius

EDIT to add:

3 Cabalistic Alphabets

​

Mamama : Est (see pic) Diß ist recht alt Cabalistisch geredt / This is quite old Cabalistic spoken / von dreyen unterscheidenen Sprachen / of three distinct languages / als nemlich von Hebraisch / as namely, of Hebrew / Syrisch und Chaldaeisch oder Abyssanisch / Syrian and Chaldaean or Abyssan / und ist auß jeder Sprach ein Buchstab genommen. and a letter is taken from each language / Ist ein bedeutung aller volkommenheit / Is a meaning of all perfection / derhalb / Therefore / das im Gewicht /which in weight/ in der Maß / in the measure /und an der Zahl (wie Euclides und Pythagoras melden) alle Operationen stehen. and by the number (as Euclides and Pythagoras report) all operations are / Dann / Then

heb1 ist / is Numeravit heist /means Er hat gezehlt / He has counted
heb2 ist / is Mensuravit heist /means Er hat gemessen / He has measured
heb3 ist / is Ponderavit heist /means Er hat gewegen / He weighed

Besih / See Paracelsum de vera Magia, quae est plenitudo, consumatio philosophiae naturalis lib.15 Cap 21 / Paracelsus on true Magic, which is the fullness, the consummation of natural philosophy book 15 Chap.21. Wir haben dieselbigen Alphabet / We have these alphabet / dem Leser hiher verzeichnen wollen / put here for the reader / domit er desto besser daraus kommen könne . so that he could get out of it all the better. Von diesen Alphabeten und ihrem verstandt / Of these alphabets and their minds / besih/see Rab. Nathanem der sacra rer: arte. Ib 19 Cap 35. Item lib 52 Cap 41.53. und 61. Item von den Cabalistischen Alphabeten schreibt auch Rabi Kanahab im 5. Buch der Unterscheiden / Cap 32 Item of the Cabalistic alphabets, Rabi Kanahab also writes in the 5th Book of Distinctions /chapter 32

The three alphabets of the cabalists, as Agrippa testifies, the first alphabet, this is the heavenly saying, which he uses in the astrological

Second alphabet of the cabalists, is called Melachim, that is royal, as Agrippa testifies

The third alphabet of the Cabalists was said to be passed by SEE PIC, Agrippa and Gotfrido Bitaracunse as witnesses

EDIT to add - the last 2 examples of Thurneyssers Onomastico plus a pdf with 65 old alphabets

East Franconian

Thesauros : Ist mit alten Westfränkischen Buchtaben / Is with old West Franconian letters / doch eintweders auff Griechischen oder Lateinischen verstand geschrieben / yet written in either Greek or Latin mind / Dann Thesaurus (see pic) ist ein Schatz / Then thesaurus (see pic) is a treasure / ein verborgen gut / a hidden good / Wie man sagt / As is said / das zu Augst im Loch / such at Augst in the hole / Item zu Zürich auff dem Hoff. Item at Zürich at the court / Und zu Münster in Westphalen / And at Münster in Westphalia / an einem ort des Thümbs ? / in a place of thumb? / in der Maur oder einer Seulen / in the wall or a column / ein treffelicher Schatz von Goldt ligen sol. / an excellent treasure of Gold is said to lie / Damit aber der Leser der Buchstaben ursach wisse / But so that the reader of the letters knows the cause / so findet er zu Wien bey S. Stephan / so he finds in Vienna near S. Stephan / auff des alt Ostfrenkischen Herrn Rudolphi Begrebnuß / at the old East Franconian Herr Rudolphi's funeral (tomb) / etliche aus dem hiebey gesetzen Alphabeten verzeichnet. quite a few from the alphabet set here.

Alphabetum Ostrofrancorum, Viennae apud S. Stephanum, circa Sepulchrum Rudolphi lapidi incisum
East Franconian Alphabet, Vienna at St.Stephanus, cut in stone around Rudolphi tomb

Abreviations Ciceronis

​

Diß ist kein Schrifft / This is not a font (or writing) / sondern es sind Abbreviaturen Ciceronis, und bedeut jeder Character ein Wort / but they are abbreviations of Ciceroni, and each character means a word / als quenedendum homo, Commodus, Probitas, Sic, incommodus, improbitas. / as a man must be killed, convenient, Honesty , uncomfortable, dishonesty / Obwohl Trittenhemius schreibt / Although Trittenhemius writes / das M.T. Cicero diese erfunden / that M.T. Cicero invented these / haben doch etliche Rabini vermeint / some Rabini thought so / das der kunstliebende Kénig Ptolomaeus Philadelphus (welcher nicht allein mit grossem unkosten die Biblia hat transferieren lassen / that the art-loving King Ptolomaeus Philadelphus (who not only had the Biblia transferred at great expense / Sondern sonst unmessiglichem verlag / But otherwise immeasurable publishing / durch seinen Canzler Demetrium / through his chancellor Demetrium / umb das Jahr vor christ geburt 284. Viele tausend Bücher in ein Liberey versamelt) eintweders diese / around the year 284 before the birth of Christ. Many thousands of books gathered in one library) either these ones / oder aber andere denen gleich gebraucht habe. or others who were used the same / Besih See Aristeum in vita Ptolomaei, Item Ioseph. In antiqui. Lib. 12. Cap. 2 und Hedionem Cap. 2. Wir haben aber / But we have / domit dem Leser hierin gedient / thus serving the reader herein / derselbigen Abbreviaturen etliche / several abbreviations thereof / mit ihrem verstandt hieher seßen wollen. / wanted to put here with their minds.

Aliquot Abbreviaturae secretae M. Tulln Ciceronis, teste Trittenhemio.
Some secret abbreviations M.Tulln Ciceronis, witnessed by Trittenhemius.

When looking to find more info about "Vastualdi", one of the alphabets listed in the annexed table, I found this pdf named magia cryptographica depicting 65 different old alphabets … even an astrological one (which might interest @RangerLem ?)

File attached. Enjoy

 

[Laiqoepsio]

If you have any similar resources, I'd be curious to find anything on a language called Hanferit.

EDIT: As referenced here: Link to a Chapter of a Book called Sacred Symbols of Mu

 

[Bitbybit]

I just cut out the german in two of the parts, to make it more readable:

Zeitimab : Is tartarian is as much as in Greek language (see pic) that is a question might have its origin from the greek word (see pic ) set thereafter but what concerns the font this shall be the fundament and of all Dalmatic Rascian / Bulgarians / Slavones / Roxalanians , Circasians and other folks first font … therefor we wanted to put this alphabet (because it had no place in the following table) here at the end / we herewith [command] the reader the Allmighty God until better opportunity

and

This is not a font (or writing) but they are abbreviations of Ciceroni, and each character means a word as a man must be killed, convenient, Honesty , uncomfortable, dishonesty. Although Trittenhemius writes that M.T. Cicero invented these some Rabini thought so that the art-loving King Ptolomaeus Philadelphus (who not only had the Biblia transferred at great expense But otherwise immeasurable publishing through his chancellor Demetrium around the year 284 before the birth of Christ. Many thousands of books gathered in one library) either these ones or others who were used the same But we have thus serving the reader herein several abbreviations thereof wanted to put here with their minds.
Some secret abbreviations M.Tulln Ciceronis, witnessed by Trittenhemius.

 

[no_chill]

Interesting. So Tataria must have been an actual culture/ country. Rather than a Region, since I see this argument floating around too. Unless they would have attributed languages to regions too in this book. Like calling Chinese/ Mongolian etc Asiatic or Asian.

It also contains many elements of Sigils . Or better, probably served as the basis for Sigils.

Also, interestingly despite Tartaria being considered close to china, the Alphabet doesn't reflect that.
It doesn't look like it would transform into chinese and I mean only the way the letters are drawn, since Chinese is a symbolic language, similar to hieroglyphs where letters/ symbols rather represent an object/ thing/ mood etc than a word ( I learned some 1000 chinese characters, however this is considered elementary school level).

 

[_Raven_]

The book named Melitstat Kai Hermen ONOMASTICUM is a kind of Lexicon with explanations of foreign (not german) words. Some of the explanations are most interesting !!! It was allegedly☆ printed in 1583 using old german Fraktur font and it’s written in an older german language.

☆ [I doubt this was printed 439 years ago, there are hints, but that’s for when I can proove it]

Leonhard Thurneysser lived from 1531 to 1595 or 1596, which makes 1583 a credible year for this book (sometimes called Melisath). His reputation was that he was bad with languages (as well as a quack and fraud — “Thurneysser often invented the passages cited himself; and the Melisath contains citations of some eighty tracts by Paracelsus that never existed outside Thurneysser’s own mind”, per encyclopedia.com), so it’s not surprising that some of his Latin is unreadable.

... hiermit wir den Leser / we herewith [commend] the reader / dem Allmechtigen Gott / to the Almighty God...

Sohne dem Evandro (die aus Griechenlandt in Tuscania / with her son Evandro (who from Greece in Tuscania / lang zuvor ehe Cadmus die Phoenizischen Buchstaben / long before Cadmus the phoenician letters/ in Griechisch geliefert / delivered in Greek / oder die lateinische Schrift erdacht worden seye / or the latin font was imagined / gebracht haben / have brought. Das Alphabet haben wir zu mehrerm bericht hieher setzen wollen. / The alphabet has been set here for further rapport / Zu end steht die ander Sort / At the end stands the other sort.​

GREECE ??! „From Greece in Tuscania“ reads as if Greece was part of Tuscania. There was not yet a country called Greece in 1583, that was founded 1829 !

(1) It might help to know the German “in” also translates to English as “into”. And we call that second area “Tuscany”.

(2) Though it was under Ottoman rule from the mid-1400s to 1821, and not an independent nation, the territory (country) was still known as “Greece”… to non-Greeks.

The Theban alphabet of honor, in which the author Peter Aponius wrote the magitam in book 4​

No. “The Alphabet of Honorius of Thebes, who wrote of magic, according to Petrus de Apono in [his] fourth book.”

Those are Wikipedia links. See also Theban alphabet, there.

The secret alphabet of John Tritenhemius, Abbot of Spanheim​

You’ll find him on Wikipedia as Johannes Trithemius. He also published a version of the Theban alphabet first, in 1518’s Polygraphia, before either his student Agrippa or Honorius (though Agrippa credited Honorius, and Honorius credited Agrippa). “The only manuscript of Honorius which actually includes the alphabet is Sloane 3853, where it is clearly identified as having been taken from Trithemius’s student Agrippa, thus making a remarkable round-trip back to Honorius.” — Joseph H. Peterson, introduction p.13, The Sworn Book of Honorius: Liber Jurati Honorii (2016). [The illustration on p.14 shows the same chart as the 1613 reprint of Polygraphia.]

Vtopinse the alphabet, as the witness of the learned man Thomas Mauro D.Erasmus Rot: especially to his English friend / Alphabetum Vtopinse, teste doctiss (?) viro Thoma Mauro D. Erasmi Rot : praecipue amico Anglo​

In English today, we would say “the Utopian Alphabet” and credit (Sir and Saint) Thomas More, who wrote the book Utopia (1516), and was executed in 1535. The scholar, philosopher, and theologian Desiderius Erasmus Roterodamus [=of Rotterdam] is better remembered to us simply as Erasmus.

An easy alphabet, second anonymous, noting Trittenhemius​

Again, whom we call “Trithemius”.

Circonian Alphabet... Secret alphabet M. Tulln Ciceronis… witnessed by Trittenhemius

Ciceronian Alphabet… Secret alphabet of Marcus Tullius Cicero… witnessed by Trithemius

(Likewise for your “Abreviations [sic] Ciceronis” further on.)

You’ll find a number of these scripts, with English captions, in Francis Barrett’s 1801 book The Magus, e.g.:

 

[RangerLem]

The book named Melitstat Kai Hermen ONOMASTICUM is a kind of Lexicon with explanations of foreign (not german) words. Some of the explanations are most interesting !!! It was allegedly☆ printed in 1583 using old german Fraktur font and it’s written in an older german language.

☆ [I doubt this was printed 439 years ago, there are hints, but that’s for when I can proove it]

Foreign Languages that are listed per groups at the end of the preface can be found in this post.

A presentation of foreign alphabets is in the annexed table in the book. But there was not enough place, so the oldest ones, the „fundamental“ were depicted after explanations of words. These 2 are, according to Thurneysser the oldest Alphabets used in Europe. The words explained are in another language than the Alphabet with which they were written.

NOTE: For greek, hebrew, arabic, …letters & words, please watch on the pic, as I cannot reproduce them.

Scytian letters (p201)

View attachment 26081
Source Pic

Zmumechos : Diß ist ein alt Griechisch Wort / This is an old greek word / doch mit alt Scithischen Buchstaben geschriebenen / but written with old Scithian letters / und bedeut (see pic), Prudentia, Fürsichtigkeit/ and means (see pic), Prudentia, prudence / Es sol dieses eines der aller eltisten Schrift seyn / This shall be one of the eldest font (or letters) / die in Europa gebraucht sein sol / that shall have been used in Europe / und sol die Carmenta ein treffelichs/heriichs und hochverstendigs Weib / and shall [have been brought by] Carmenta an excellent imperious and very intelligent woman / samt ihrem Sohne dem Evandro (die aus Griechenlandt in Tuscania / with her son Evandro (who from Greece in Tuscania / lang zuvor ehe Cadmus die Phoenizischen Buchstaben / long before Cadmus the phoenician letters/ in Griechisch geliefert / delivered in Greek / oder die lateinische Schrift erdacht worden seye / or the latin font was imagined / gebracht haben / have brought. Das Alphabet haben wir zu mehrerm bericht hieher setzen wollen. / The alphabet has been set here for further rapport / Zu end steht die ander Sort / At the end stands the other sort.​

GREECE ??! „From Greece in Tuscania“ reads as if Greece was part of Tuscania. There was not yet a country called Greece in 1583, that was founded 1829 !

The other sort (p 202)

View attachment 26082​

Source Pic

Zeitimab : Ist tartarisch / Is tartarian / ist so viel als in griechischer Sprach (see pic) vel Questio / is as much as in Greek language (see pic) vel Questio / das ist ein Frage / that is a question / möchte vielleicht vom nachgesetzten griechisch Wörtlein (see pic) sein ursprung haben / might have its origin from the greek word (see pic ) set thereafter / was aber die Schrifft belangen thut / but what concerns the font / soll diß das fundament / this shall be the fundament / und aller Dalmatischen / and of all Dalmatic / Rascier / Rascian / Bulgaren / Bulgarians / Schlawoner / Slavones / Roxalaner, Roxalanians , Circasier , Circasians / und anderer Völcker erste Schriefften urhab seyn / and other folcks first font … /Derhalben wir solches Alphabet (weil es in der folgenden Tafel nicht hat Raum gehabt) zum Beschluß hieher haben setzen wollen / therefor we wanted to put this alphabet (because it had no place in the following table) here at the end / hiermit wir den Leser / we herewith [command] the reader / dem Allmechtigen Gott / the Allmighty God / biß zu besserer gelegenheit befehlen / until better opportunity​

Here ends the „Ander Theil“, the second part, so there should be an earlier first part.

The following Table of Alphabets

Translation with Latin to English

Here follows 10 foreign Alphabets, of whom there is no mention in the Onomastico. ( 10? I count 13 )

View attachment 26084

The Theban alphabet of honor, in which the author Peter Aponius wrote the magitam in book 4

The alphabet of these ancient French born vath, (no idea – no result in my latin abbreviation lexicon.)

The secret alphabet of Jaimelis Megalopius, the wisest king

The Norwegian alphabet, by the author D.Bede the priest (Nordmann = Norvegian !)

The secret alphabet of John Tritenhemius, Abbot of Spanheim

Vtopinse the alphabet, as the witness of the learned man Thomas Mauro D.Erasmus Rot: especially to his English friend / Alphabetum Vtopinse, teste doctiss (?) viro Thoma Mauro D. Erasmi Rot : praecipue amico Anglo

The alphabet of Charlemagne, as witnessed by Alcinius, Gallus, Philosoph. book about the life of the King

View attachment 26083
The alphabet explored by Pharamund, king of the Franks, through Gaul

An easy alphabet, second anonymous, noting Trittenhemius

The alphabet of a certain high alchemist, the author of Sphanheim

The Golden Alphabet which the French have seen, authored by Hunibaldo the Historiographer

Vastualdi Alphabet ??? of Kings, Dukes, and Princes for the Years Seven Hundred and Fifty-Eight
???? in his first speech wrote the author Hunibaldo

Alphabet D. Otfridi Monk of Wissenburg, Pupil of Rabani of Fulda

Source Pics​

Then there are few other Alphabets after explanations of words, of which I have just translated until now the following

Old Gottic - Gothic Alphabet (p.198)

View attachment 26085
Source pic

Teebes or Taebes : Ist eben so viel / Is as much as / Dies ist alt Göttisch / This is old gothic / Wie dann die Cur und Lyfflender / As like the Cur and Lyfflender /noch heute zu tag / still today / in ihrer Sprach / in their language / das Tebes behalten. / kept the Tebes. Das alte Göttische Alphabet ist hier verzeichnet. The old Gothic Alphabet is presentet here
​

EDIT to add:

Circonian Alphabet

View attachment 26086​

Source pic

Valknzar : Ist ein wunderbarer Stein / Is a wonderful stone / schwarßer farb / black color/ ist rauch / is smoke / und seind gemeiniglich formirt wie ein Herß / and are commonly formed like a heart / die Raben legen die in ihre Nester auff dem Gebirg Pseuaras / the ravens lay them in their nests on the mountain of Pseuara / welche Berg Pseuaras / which mountain Pseuara / beschliessen das eusserst ort der Troglodyter / finish the outermost place of the Troglodytes / Vide Apian. & Munsterum / See Apian. & Munsterum / Diß ist Circonisch geschrieben / This is written in Circonian / welchs Alphabet hierzu geseßt ist. / which alphabet is set for this.

Secret alphabet M. Tulln Ciceronis, which was also used by St.Cyprian of Carthage, witnessed by Trittenhemius

EDIT to add:

3 Cabalistic Alphabets

View attachment 26105
​

Mamama : Est (see pic) Diß ist recht alt Cabalistisch geredt / This is quite old Cabalistic spoken / von dreyen unterscheidenen Sprachen / of three distinct languages / als nemlich von Hebraisch / as namely, of Hebrew / Syrisch und Chaldaeisch oder Abyssanisch / Syrian and Chaldaean or Abyssan / und ist auß jeder Sprach ein Buchstab genommen. and a letter is taken from each language / Ist ein bedeutung aller volkommenheit / Is a meaning of all perfection / derhalb / Therefore / das im Gewicht /which in weight/ in der Maß / in the measure /und an der Zahl (wie Euclides und Pythagoras melden) alle Operationen stehen. and by the number (as Euclides and Pythagoras report) all operations are / Dann / Then

heb1 ist / is Numeravit heist /means Er hat gezehlt / He has counted
heb2 ist / is Mensuravit heist /means Er hat gemessen / He has measured
heb3 ist / is Ponderavit heist /means Er hat gewegen / He weighed

Besih / See Paracelsum de vera Magia, quae est plenitudo, consumatio philosophiae naturalis lib.15 Cap 21 / Paracelsus on true Magic, which is the fullness, the consummation of natural philosophy book 15 Chap.21. Wir haben dieselbigen Alphabet / We have these alphabet / dem Leser hiher verzeichnen wollen / put here for the reader / domit er desto besser daraus kommen könne . so that he could get out of it all the better. Von diesen Alphabeten und ihrem verstandt / Of these alphabets and their minds / besih/see Rab. Nathanem der sacra rer: arte. Ib 19 Cap 35. Item lib 52 Cap 41.53. und 61. Item von den Cabalistischen Alphabeten schreibt auch Rabi Kanahab im 5. Buch der Unterscheiden / Cap 32 Item of the Cabalistic alphabets, Rabi Kanahab also writes in the 5th Book of Distinctions /chapter 32

The three alphabets of the cabalists, as Agrippa testifies, the first alphabet, this is the heavenly saying, which he uses in the astrological

Second alphabet of the cabalists, is called Melachim, that is royal, as Agrippa testifies

The third alphabet of the Cabalists was said to be passed by SEE PIC, Agrippa and Gotfrido Bitaracunse as witnesses

EDIT to add - the last 2 examples of Thurneyssers Onomastico plus a pdf with 65 old alphabets

East Franconian

View attachment 26114
View attachment 26115​

Thesauros : Ist mit alten Westfränkischen Buchtaben / Is with old West Franconian letters / doch eintweders auff Griechischen oder Lateinischen verstand geschrieben / yet written in either Greek or Latin mind / Dann Thesaurus (see pic) ist ein Schatz / Then thesaurus (see pic) is a treasure / ein verborgen gut / a hidden good / Wie man sagt / As is said / das zu Augst im Loch / such at Augst in the hole / Item zu Zürich auff dem Hoff. Item at Zürich at the court / Und zu Münster in Westphalen / And at Münster in Westphalia / an einem ort des Thümbs ? / in a place of thumb? / in der Maur oder einer Seulen / in the wall or a column / ein treffelicher Schatz von Goldt ligen sol. / an excellent treasure of Gold is said to lie / Damit aber der Leser der Buchstaben ursach wisse / But so that the reader of the letters knows the cause / so findet er zu Wien bey S. Stephan / so he finds in Vienna near S. Stephan / auff des alt Ostfrenkischen Herrn Rudolphi Begrebnuß / at the old East Franconian Herr Rudolphi's funeral (tomb) / etliche aus dem hiebey gesetzen Alphabeten verzeichnet. quite a few from the alphabet set here.

Alphabetum Ostrofrancorum, Viennae apud S. Stephanum, circa Sepulchrum Rudolphi lapidi incisum
East Franconian Alphabet, Vienna at St.Stephanus, cut in stone around Rudolphi tomb

Abreviations Ciceronis

View attachment 26116
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Diß ist kein Schrifft / This is not a font (or writing) / sondern es sind Abbreviaturen Ciceronis, und bedeut jeder Character ein Wort / but they are abbreviations of Ciceroni, and each character means a word / als quenedendum homo, Commodus, Probitas, Sic, incommodus, improbitas. / as a man must be killed, convenient, Honesty , uncomfortable, dishonesty / Obwohl Trittenhemius schreibt / Although Trittenhemius writes / das M.T. Cicero diese erfunden / that M.T. Cicero invented these / haben doch etliche Rabini vermeint / some Rabini thought so / das der kunstliebende Kénig Ptolomaeus Philadelphus (welcher nicht allein mit grossem unkosten die Biblia hat transferieren lassen / that the art-loving King Ptolomaeus Philadelphus (who not only had the Biblia transferred at great expense / Sondern sonst unmessiglichem verlag / But otherwise immeasurable publishing / durch seinen Canzler Demetrium / through his chancellor Demetrium / umb das Jahr vor christ geburt 284. Viele tausend Bücher in ein Liberey versamelt) eintweders diese / around the year 284 before the birth of Christ. Many thousands of books gathered in one library) either these ones / oder aber andere denen gleich gebraucht habe. or others who were used the same / Besih See Aristeum in vita Ptolomaei, Item Ioseph. In antiqui. Lib. 12. Cap. 2 und Hedionem Cap. 2. Wir haben aber / But we have / domit dem Leser hierin gedient / thus serving the reader herein / derselbigen Abbreviaturen etliche / several abbreviations thereof / mit ihrem verstandt hieher seßen wollen. / wanted to put here with their minds.

Aliquot Abbreviaturae secretae M. Tulln Ciceronis, teste Trittenhemio.
Some secret abbreviations M.Tulln Ciceronis, witnessed by Trittenhemius.

When looking to find more info about "Vastualdi", one of the alphabets listed in the annexed table, I found this pdf named magia cryptographica depicting 65 different old alphabets … even an astrological one (which might interest @RangerLem ?)

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File attached. Enjoy

OH wow!

A Moon
B Aries
C Taurus
D Gemini
E Mercury
F Cancer
G Leo
H Virgo
l Venus
L Jupiter
M Libra
N Scorpio
O Sun
P Sagittarius
Q Capricorn
R Saturn
S ???
T Aquarius
U Mars
X Pisces

Whoever lined this up read Sanchunethion and understood how it is alleged that Thoth invented the alphabet, by making the vowels the planets. This author's break down shows the 12 zodiacal signs as 12 consonents and the 7 planets are the seven vowels, and S is marked with a symbol like a star but I do not know what it refers to, for 19 +1 = 20 symbols.

Interesting. So Tataria must have been an actual culture/ country. Rather than a Region, since I see this argument floating around too. Unless they would have attributed languages to regions too in this book. Like calling Chinese/ Mongolian etc Asiatic or Asian.

It also contains many elements of Sigils . Or better, probably served as the basis for Sigils.

Also, interestingly despite Tartaria being considered close to china, the Alphabet doesn't reflect that.
It doesn't look like it would transform into chinese and I mean only the way the letters are drawn, since Chinese is a symbolic language, similar to hieroglyphs where letters/ symbols rather represent an object/ thing/ mood etc than a word ( I learned some 1000 chinese characters, however this is considered elementary school level).

The Chinese Lunar Zodiac matches the Phoenician in style.

 

[Alexi]

Gods Alphabet.

When God was about to create the world by His word, the twenty-two letters of the alphabet descended from the terrible and august crown of God whereon they were engraved with a pen of flaming fire. They stood round about God, and one after the other spake and entreated, "Create the world through me!

After the claims of all these letters had been disposed of, Bet stepped before the Holy One, blessed be He, and pleaded before Him: "O Lord of the world! May it be Thy will to create Thy world through me, seeing that all the dwellers in the world give praise daily unto Thee through me, as it is said, 'Blessed be the Lord forever. Amen, and Amen.' " The Holy One, blessed be He, at once granted the petition of Bet. He said, "Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

The letter who won the day was 'B'

Be
Blessed
Born
Beginning
To Be or not to Be


https://www.swartzentrover.com/cotor/e-books/misc/Legends/Legends of the Jews.pdf