# The Downfall of Classical Music



## freygeist (Feb 7, 2021)

There are two major art forms of the lost culture. Performing arts and Visual arts. Now, one can argue forever which form is more profound in enlightening and raising the human soul. Being a musician myself, i have to say Music is the highest form of Art. Its the direct language of God.

We hear this, when we listen to the old european masters of Classical Music, we get a sense of ultimate glory, but also the opposite, ultimate despair.

Here are two examples form the great Ludwig van Beethoven, showing that dualism:

Glory

Despair

The classical age of music is commonly divided between the Baroque Era, the actual Classical Era (Wiener Klassik), and the Romantic Era, and the predecessor ages are rather obscure which is interesting, because we have this huge amount of musical literature of ca 300 years, but nothing substantial before that, and even of the remaining literature much manuscripts are lost, and we only have published first editions.
To this day this music is considered of the highest virtue, and one has to work deeply to understand and fully deliver this music. It is essentially a task for your whole life, as most old pianists age like fine wine, and delivered truly eternal performances, like music out of other spheres.

Now lets take the rabbit hole into consideration:

Composers like Mozart and Bach delivered not only music of the highest quality, but also quantity. While being stylistically different, they both excelled in every musical genre, from vocal to instrumental, and left a vast legacy behind, and every later composer is somehow influenced by these two. Bach was known for applying essential elements of nature in his music, like the "proportia divina", meaning that by 2/3 in the piece the culmination of the melodic and harmonic progression would happen.
Beethoven is considered the most important composer for the transition between the Classical and the Romantic Era. We see a great in shift in music traditions in the romantic time, as the form got shorter and the "Sonatenhaupsatzform" was more and more abandoned that meant, music got simpler, and this process was heavily intensified in the so called modern era of music, still going on to our time.

The classical era of music, like the architecture of the cathedrals and star forts, belong to the Old Realm, and the shift in the style of it, correlates to the timeframe of the reset, so here is a possible approach, to what might have occured:

The Baroque and partly classical age were pre Reset. Beethoven was the composer, living in the time of the transition from classical to romantic Era, that is the supposed time of the reset (1750-1850) . He actually lived through it, but went deaf during the events of the cataclysm/war/revolution. The romantic/modern era is post reset.

Let's back this up with a bit information about Beethoven and how his successors viewed him.
First of Beethoven is very distinct to Mozart and Bach, as he tried to outdo his predecessors very early on, in regards to technical mastery of the player, but was also considered, to be sometimes a bit rough and shocking.
But still every other composer after Beethoven, never got some things right, as he was a master in composing large 3-4 part pieces of the sonata form, essentially maintaining the pace and correlation of the contrasting thematic material. Even composers like Chopin, who scolded him for his roughness, and were more amazed of Bach and Mozart, could never repeat the feats he still possessed, and the romantic era devolved into what we know as "virtuosity" or technical showmanship. Meaning the divine element of music, got more and more replaced by superficiality and a drill mentality.

But that process happened slowly and the early and mid romantic is full of suffering pieces, longing for a past age, many pieces by Chopin reflect this.
Modern history says it was about the fall of the polish state in the official timeline, but these pieces reflect something much grander, and the hope to restore, what was lost, listen to the famous g-minor ballade, according to old lore, the saddest key.

There is so much to recover about our glorious lost culture, when you listen to classical music, so i like to conclude with the great eternal masterpiece of Mozart, pls enjoy:


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lhjszZNZvk_


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## Akanah (Feb 7, 2021)

In my opinion classic music is typical for mythology ancient stories. Former natural music of simple humans are music with drums, didgeridoo and guitars which speaks to my heart. If I listening to classic music I ever had the bad Feeling of dramatic events. That´s the reason I believe classic music is too exaggerated.


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## freygeist (Feb 7, 2021)

Akanah said:


> In my opinion classic music is typical for mythology ancient stories. Former natural music of simple humans are music with drums, didgeridoo and guitars which speaks to my heart. If I listening to classic music I ever had the bad Feeling of dramatic events. That´s the reason I believe classic music is too exaggerated.




Yes, i would call the romantic era certainly exaggerated, but listen to Bach and  Mozart, and its natural beauty, compared to for example the pompous Tschaikowsky, there is a big difference in style.


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## dreamtime (Feb 7, 2021)

Akanah said:


> In my opinion classic music is typical for mythology ancient stories. Former natural music of simple humans are music with drums, didgeridoo and guitars which speaks to my heart. If I listening to classic music I ever had the bad Feeling of dramatic events. That´s the reason I believe classic music is too exaggerated.



I would say the simple drum based music is the music of the shamans and primitive societies, it connects us with the underworld (or parts of our own subconscious)

The old classical music is the music of the gods, it elevates to higher realms.


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## solarbard (Feb 7, 2021)

What do you think of folk music?


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## wommak (Feb 7, 2021)

> Being a musician myself, i have to say Music is the highest form of Art. Its the direct language of God.
> 
> We hear this, when we listen to the old european masters of Classical Music, we get a sense of ultimate glory, but also the opposite, ultimate despair.


I can very relate to that. I am no musician by all means but I play instruments and i feel 'it' the Sound. First thing comes to my mind when thinking classical music is this: Toccatta in D minor of Bach played on organs in those 'churches' and having to listen to that live in those buildings. Must have been magnificents to experience at those real times.


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## freygeist (Feb 7, 2021)

solarbard said:


> What do you think of folk music?



That's a very good question. Folk music as we know consists mainly of short songs, and interestingly evolved in the romantic era, and has a direct connection to modern form of Pop music. But if we think in the sense of the word, they are a collective form of melodies and phrases, predating the classical era.


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## dreamtime (Feb 7, 2021)

It is well known that classical music is very prominent among the higher ups of society. They also like to dwell in the old world buildings. I think both the music as well as the architecture has a 'structuring' effect on humans (and on human cells). The basic concepts of biology are _structure _and _energy (form _and _function)_, and how both relate to each other. The right structure supports energy, and energy is the foundation of life.


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## freygeist (Feb 7, 2021)

wommak said:


> I can very relate to that. I am no musician by all means but I play instruments and i feel 'it' the Sound. First thing comes to my mind when thinking classical music is this: Toccatta in D minor of Beethoven played on organs in those 'churches' and having to listen to that live in those buildings. Must have been magnificents to experience at those real times.



Sorry but the music nerd has to correct you, its from Bach, and that isn't even really clear ^^ But a magnificent piece nonetheless.


dreamtime said:


> It is well known that classical music is very prominent among the higher ups of society. They also like to dwell in the old world buildings. I think both the music as well as the architecture has a 'structuring' effect on humans (and on human cells). The basic concepts of biology are _structure _and _energy (form _and _function)_, and how both relate to each other. The right structure supports energy, and energy is the foundation of life.




Yes, music still has this energy, and the fact that they raised the "Kammerton" (concert pitch) from ca 400 to 440 hertz after the second world war, was to diminish the effect of the divine music.


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## Lightseeker (Feb 7, 2021)

This is the kind of thread I can contribute to, because like the OP, I am also a musician.

Classical music is no doubt the highest form of music. One has to be a musician to appreciate someone like J.S.Bach. As someone with a very fine-tuned ear, I find his music to be the closest there is to something divine in art. In my experience only Ravel can come close.

Bach wrote things that make me scratch my head, because of how difficult it would be for any modern musician to replicate such feats. Bach's "the musical offering" is proof of him having been a real master. Let us not forget that he was a virtuoso of the organ and was an excellent improviser as well.

Nowadays classical musicians are merely performers. Ask a classical musician to improvise or compose. Not going to happen. What made a Paganini or a Liszt so scary is that they were able to improvise and surprise.

Did classical music experience a certain downfall? Certainly. It is called modernism. Stravinsky is perhaps the only listenable one of the composers of the modern era. Schoenberg is unlistenable for the most part. Other modern composers, especially those of the "new classical complexity" movement, are literally writing garbage.

Music has a tremendous effect on people. I won't go on detail into how music moves us. It moves the body when it is danceable, but it can also energize us. Many times I have felt sad and powerless but then I heard a beautiful piece by Bach or by Ravel and my heart filled with joy, my eyes almost watery due to the sheer beauty that was coming into my brain through my ears. Or I was feeling tired and I heard a great song from one of my bands and I felt inspired to do something. This is why I despise most of the music nowadays. It is vulgar. It is overly focused on simplicity (it has to sell) but also on the beat, which means, it is not meant to move the soul, but the body's lower regions. Everything is about the ass. No complexity, no content. Four chords throughout all the song, give or take. The lyrics are uninspired, the artists are just puppets for a record label. It is no wonder so many teenagers and youngsters struggle with depression, drugs and promiscuity. The music they consume tells them that it is OK to be degenerate. The music itself is degenerate and void of meaning. If you want to piss me off, force me to listen to the radio for at least one hour.

I see OP is from Germany. I lived in Germany for a while. I remember that during my stay in that country I only ever met two Germans who were legit into classical music. Much to my chagrin, the rest preferred rap, hip-hop and other degenerate types of music. I saw it as yet another sign of the degeneration of the German nation. In the country where Bach, Beethoven, Telemann, Gluck, Purzell and other greats were born, the most popular types of music are rap and hip-hop. Of course, that is not a coincidence.

I am looking forward to others' opinion on this regard.


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## wommak (Feb 7, 2021)

> Sorry but the music nerd has to correct you, its from Bach, and that isn't even really clear ^^ But a magnificent piece nonetheless.


 Yes I stand corrected Bach it is oviously I am not dumb  Thanks!


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## 6079SmithW (Feb 7, 2021)

I am forced to listen to the radio all day at work and it makes me fucking exhausted when i get home


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## Silveryou (Feb 7, 2021)

Theodor Adorno was behind Mozart, Beethoven and Bach though


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## freygeist (Feb 7, 2021)

Silveryou said:


> Theodor Adorno was behind Mozart, Beethoven and Bach though



Can you elaborate on that? I'm honestly suprised, you would mention him of all people with the three masters in one sentence. Not that i have taken any offense


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## Silveryou (Feb 7, 2021)

freygeist said:


> Silveryou said:
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> ...


SH Archive - Welcome to the Machine - Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here


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## SonofaBor (Feb 7, 2021)

I've written several times in threads such as these that Bach is unparalleled.  I'm glad other know the same. But, I'll listen to hours to 19th century chamber music and jazz, circa 1900-1960. Some hymns deserve repeated listening, such as "Abide with Me," "Amazing Grace," and "The Mighty Fortress is Our God."  Something of pre-parasite culture, no doubt.


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## freygeist (Feb 7, 2021)

Silveryou said:


> freygeist said:
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He says Adorno, (Frankfurt School!) gave Jethro Tull the idea to make a version of Bachs Bouree, and he further explains how several modern bands recycled classical themes, that's commonly known, but i didn't know Adorno was behind it, so thanks for the info. But still, what are you saying, how was he behind Bach, Mozart and Beethoven?


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## Silveryou (Feb 7, 2021)

freygeist said:


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No no. Just continue the reading of that thread. I don't know anything of music, just reminded that thread because it became memorable. for me at least


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## freygeist (Feb 7, 2021)

Silveryou said:


> freygeist said:
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Yeah i did that, and they go further on and on about modern bands recycled classical themes, but nothing about Adorno was behind the old masters. That doesn't make any sense. He surely may have exploited their works, but he didn't compose that stuff.


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## Lightseeker (Feb 7, 2021)

freygeist said:


> Silveryou said:
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The OP in that thread didn't make sense at all. I wrote a few counterarguments which he wasn't able to refute. 

Anyways, who cares? Adorno was probably the mastermind behind ancient Sumerian chants, as well as the Popol Vuh.


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## freygeist (Feb 7, 2021)

Lightseeker said:


> freygeist said:
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I just get angry, when i hear the name of that scumbag Adorno. The Frankfurt School was the foundation after the second world war, to destroy our nation even further. But anyway lets continue with the topic.

You made one important point before, how the art of improvisation was lost. That is very important.
Today musical education is divided into plenty subclasses. That wasn't the case with the old masters. They were trained in all forms of music, Improvisation, Composition and Interpretation. That system got lost around the late romantic and early modern era, and today improvisation is associated with jazz, blues, which is historically completely false, but fortunately there is an attempt in the recent years to revive the art of classical improvisation among musicians.


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## Silveryou (Feb 7, 2021)

freygeist said:


> but fortunately there is an attempt in the recent years to revive the art of classical improvisation among musicians.


...and once revived, they will say it stemmed from jazz and blues!


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## Lightseeker (Feb 7, 2021)

freygeist said:


> Lightseeker said:
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The ability to improvise is perhaps connected with the ability to compose. And it seems like most classical performers are not even interested in that. I cannot think of a single example of a modern classical performer who actually composes anything on their own. 

It is like being very eloquent and articulate but not being able to write an essay.


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## freygeist (Feb 7, 2021)

Silveryou said:


> ...and once revived, they will say it stemmed from jazz and blues!



That isn't too far fetched considering that many german musicians, who think they found the holy grail with these degenerated styles of music, want to implement the international system rather then the german system of naming our notes. Also consider how music became a product in the modern age, being available all the time, and the constant shift from natural sounds to more synthetic sounds!



Lightseeker said:


> The ability to improvise is perhaps connected with the ability to compose. And it seems like most classical performers are not even interested in that. I cannot think of a single example of a modern classical performer who actually composes anything on their own.
> 
> It is like being very eloquent and articulate but not being able to write an essay.



It is essentially connected to mathematics, if you will. They had this number system, called the "Generalbass", or "Partimenti", where they improvised on a given bassline. That means they had a holistic (*) way of learning the music, in a way an architect would think. That means music is connected to our whole existence. We have 12 tones like we have 12 months, also 7 natural tones and 7 days. We have major and minor like we have good and evil, day and night etc.

* tried to translate the german word "ganzheitlich"


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## Lightseeker (Feb 7, 2021)

freygeist said:


> Silveryou said:
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> > ...and once revived, they will say it stemmed from jazz and blues!
> ...



I spent some time living in Berlin. The amount of Jazz and blues maniacs was unbearable. Want to make it as a musician in Berlin? Play either of those two.

I have to read about Partimenti. Generally the way I was taught to improvise is to listen to what the chords say and then use it as an orientation. Most of the memorable melodies are basically outlining the harmony underneath. The beginning of Mozart's "Eine kleine Nachtmusik" is a good example.
Obviously a melody can play notes foreign to the harmony. This was done masterfully by Ravel and Debussy. 

Some people say that music is all about mathematics. Yes, all of music can be reduced to numbers. But it doesn't mean that a mathematically-minded individual can become a (good) musician. A musician is above everything an artist, and as such, he has to be sensitive and open to certain things. A classically trained musician nowadays will tell you that you cannot do certain things, like parallel octaves/fifths, or descending melodic minor scales, both of which Bach did quite often. 

Now I remember one video made by YouTuber Adam Neely, where he referred to classical music theory as "racist" because it was an European invention. Imagine that. 

It makes total sense to call a lot of jazz degenerate because in all objectiveness, when one stops wanting to be cultured and sophisticated by claiming that one "understands jazz", it becomes clear that it is basically random music played in a synchronized manner. A lot of it is in my opinion either the antithesis of classical music. Whereas classical music strives for order, beauty, aesthetics and a higher purpose, jazz is chaotic, frantic, ugly and not meant to lead to a spiritual experience. 

One last example that I would like to refer to before I go to sleep: the modern music in Latin countries. If you go to a party anywhere in Latin America you will hear pretty much the same sounds. The reggaeton-based rhythm coupled with lyrics about sex. Interestingly enough, this kind of music is most popular in the countries with the highest amount of single mothers and crime. Argentina, a country whose trademark genre is tango, doesn't seem to have that problem. Some might say that the low(er) IQ in certain countries delivers an explanation. I am still torn as to what can be the reason for the popularity of something as obscene and despicable as reggaeton or any of the genres so popular among the youth over there.


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## Huaqero (Feb 7, 2021)

I wrote it before...
I believe that Mozart is a fake personality, an equivalent for music of the 'architects' that are presented as being behind the impossible buildings.
We examine these buildings as they are big and obvious and everywhere and there is the technology gap to start the questions.
But what about things that are not that obvious? Like the high-tech pigments of the Mona Lisa?
I am convinced that _art is full of resurfaced items in all its forms_, drawn from the vaults and redesignated for protection and keeping the attention on them, until someone cracks their code.
(My personal favourite is the World Cup Jules Rimet Trophy, from my fruitful but unfinished SH1 thread.)

In this case, we may be talking about redesignated musical pieces from the Obscured World.
I guess there are more cases of other composers, but Mozart's one offers a few strong clues for a start:

Superhuman abilities
Enormous work volume for his death age.
Freemason and freemasonic themes
Continuous distractive discussions about the cause of his 'death'
Controversies about his portraits
No grave, a major indicator
My guess is that he was an ordinary freemason musician, usually drunk (the secret society history forgers like to leave some truth tidbits behind, to keep the truth disguised for the future historians), whom his brothers chose to present as a great composer.
His biographers compiled a 'biography' and Koechel compiled the list of 'his' works.
By creating an entertaining story about his life, the produced narrative helps the resurfaced music from the Obscured World be preserved and omnipresent in our civilization, too.


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## Citezenship (Feb 7, 2021)

Huaqero said:


> I wrote it before... I believe that Mozart is a fake personality, an equivalent for music of the 'architects' that are presented as being behind the impossible buildings. In this case, we may be talking about musical pieces from the Obscured World.
> 
> Superhuman abilities
> Enormous work volume for his death age.
> ...


Smells like team spirit!

Million Miles Mathis, the marathon man comes to mind!


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## AthroposRex (Feb 8, 2021)

What do you think of Chevalier de St George, the black Mozart? I've heard a theory that he was the real composer of Mozart's music. Figured I'd ask someone that may be more familiar with the music.


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## freygeist (Feb 8, 2021)

AthroposRex said:


> What do you think of Chevalier de St George, the black Mozart? I've heard a theory that he was the real composer of Mozart's music. Figured I'd ask someone that may be more familiar with the music.



Considering the vast cultural difference between Europe and Africa, even to this day, i don't think that's very likely. If it were the case, there would be more black classical composers or performers, especially today, but they are very rare, and mostly with a mixed background.

Also is he even black?, Doesn't look like it on some pics, and this whole "Black Mozart" thing has only surfaced in recent years and it is pushed by some questionable media, so honestly this sounds like the typical propaganda we've seen in recent years, that tries to attribute the achievements of our ancestors with other races....

But like Huaquero suggested, the person Mozart may be fake, and his work dates back earlier and was originally from different composers, might be the same case with Bach.


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## FAELAGUM (Feb 8, 2021)

I think I can contribute
Music, melody and tunes
Tunes are either light and dark
In order to create music you put together a melody composited by tunes and a bar notation i.e beats per se (percussion as well if you wish)
And the melody you have composited is the 'give or take'
whether it is harmonic or inharmonic

As a violinist I know the difference between a 'piece' and a 'fiddle'
The 'fiddle' is not a 'fiddle' if the rhythm of the melody is unnatural
The rhythm has to be synchronized with nature in order for the melody to be a 'fiddle'
While musical 'pieces' performed can be unnatural in rhythm


Music moves feelings
Either you get depressive of what you hear
Or you get joyful of it!


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## dreamtime (Feb 8, 2021)

Huaqero said:


> I wrote it before... I believe that Mozart is a fake personality, an equivalent for music of the 'architects' that are presented as being behind the impossible buildings. In this case, we may be talking about musical pieces from the Obscured World.
> 
> Superhuman abilities
> Enormous work volume for his death age.
> ...



I believe that as well.


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## freygeist (Feb 8, 2021)

Huaqero said:


> I wrote it before... I believe that Mozart is a fake personality, an equivalent for music of the 'architects' that are presented as being behind the impossible buildings. In this case, we may be talking about musical pieces from the Obscured World.
> 
> Superhuman abilities
> Enormous work volume for his death age.
> ...



I'd like to follow up on this idea with some facts on his opus, that could back this up.
First there is much confusion going on in his work, there are 6 editions of the Köchel catalogue, also the Neue-Mozart-Ausgabe (NMA) and a Breitkopf and Härtel revision of the Köchel catalogue, so there are obviously problems with sorting and numbering his works.
When you look at his Sonatas, Piano Concertos and Symphonies, the authorship of many pieces is unclear, and for his young age, he composed very fast. You have to consider, a large number of piano sonatas, or string quartets is not that unusual, but 41 Symphonies, and 21 piano concertos? These are complex, large scale works, just compare the amount to what later composers wrote:

Beethoven: 9 Symphonies, 5 Piano Concertos
Brahms: 4 Symphonies, 2 Piano Concertos
Schumann: 4(5) Symphonies, 1 Piano Concerto
Rachmaninoff: 3 Symphonies, 3 Piano Concertos
Prokofiev: 7 Symphonies, 5 Piano Concertos
Bruckner: 9 Symphonies
Mahler: 9 Symphonies
Chopin: 2 Piano Concertos

There is definitely something odd about Wolferl.


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## dreamtime (Feb 8, 2021)

Discussion about I.Q. moved to off-topic area. Please focus on the topic at hand.


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## Collapseinrealtime (Feb 8, 2021)

freygeist said:


> Huaqero said:
> 
> 
> > I wrote it before... I believe that Mozart is a fake personality, an equivalent for music of the 'architects' that are presented as being behind the impossible buildings. In this case, we may be talking about musical pieces from the Obscured World.
> ...


Yes, I would definitely agree that something very fishy is going on with the story of Mozart's voluminous contributions when compared to other composers' output.

On another note, nearly all modern classical composers are Jews and work either directly or indirectly with Hollywood. From my experience and research into this subject, this genre is completely dominated by this very small collective, as seems to have been the case with Beethoven and Mozart and perhaps many other classical composers of our recorded past. Just a look at their portraits show an obvious indication that they belonged to "the tribe".

Our famous jazz musicians, including the predominantly black artists, such as Miles Davis, Dizzy Gillespie, Charlie Parker, Wynton Marsalis, etc. seem to be crypto Jews, as are the majority of Rock, Heavy Metal, Grunge, rap and hip hop "artists". 

There is no doubt in my mind that the Jews have a very special connection with musicianship and musical artistry. It would make sense from the Biblical perspective, since the sons of Cain, particularly Tubal-Cain, excelled in the playing of musical instruments. There is a strong connection between modern so-called Jews and Cain and his offspring of the Old Testament. This connection ties in seamlessly with all things covert relating to mind control and crowd manipulation, since music has always been employed as a tool of manipulation by this cult, so it would make sense that the most brilliant composers of our recorded history belong to this group.

What is the connection between music, race, intelligence, and intuition? It would be dangerous to make sweeping statements, equating composership with intelligence without also including the other factors that go into musical composition. Each race has their own intuitive approach to making music. Each race is moved differently by the various aspects of musical craft. Generally speaking, the darker races tend to be more drawn to drum and bass rhythms with shouting and chanting. Rap and hip-hop emulate this trend, which is why it is so enormously popular. The same goes for Reggaeton, Salsa, Maringue, etc. of Latin American countries in that they are moved and driven firstly by rhythm with drum and bass accompanied by improvisational vocals and repeating choruses with instrumental, improvisational solos sandwiched in between. The lighter races tend to be moved more by melody, harmony, and chorus, carefully crafted around a percussive backbone, if there is percussion at all. Asian music of antiquity tends to combine drum and voice, leaving out the bass tones of western music. These are obviously generalizations and there will always be exceptions, especially in our modern multi-cultural societies where the races mix and share their unique intuitive musical inputs.

The complexity of Baroque era musical composition is a combination of applied mathematics with artistic intuition, requiring a certain amount of education, since it is both a left-brained and right-brained undertaking. Without this education, composers like Bach or Vivaldi would never have been capable to intuitively create the masterpieces they are known for. Could someone of the darker races compose Baroque style pieces with the right amount of musical theory education combined with their own musical intuition? Since we do not have many examples to draw from, we can at least conclude that this kind of undertaking has not been of sufficient interest, since they tend to prefer a more percussive, lusty approach to music making from a cultural, ethnocentric point of view. The appreciation of the Baroque contains elements of intellect and intuition, which is not everyone's cup of tea.

One thing that is absolutely certain is in the conspiracy to degrade music over time. The farther one goes back, the more beautiful and sophisticated music becomes. The culture destroyers are working overtime to distort our development in every way possible, especially regarding cultural musical development, since it is in music that contains the secrets of unity. It can be the universal unifying factor between young and old and between the races of the world, each contributing their own unique intuitive offering, creating the kind of harmony that is so noticeably absent in our modern era.


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## Lightseeker (Feb 8, 2021)

I submit for all you guys' approval this dramatization of a historical event: Bach meeting Friedrich the Great.


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdmcabpiGYU_


It is very likely that the things in the video took place in real life. So what is so impressive, mesmerizing, and perhaps downright scary about Bach's skill?

-Either perfect pitch or very fine-tuned ear: he is able to figure out the king's theme by ear on the spot, after one single listen.
-He is able to remember the theme
-He plays it without hesitation.
-He f*cking improvises a fugue, not in two voices, but in three (!) on the spot, just like that. Composing a fugue on paper, given a theme and enough time is already a challenge for the music student or trained musician. But improvising a fugue, not for two voices, but for three, is a tremendously impressive feat.

Generally that theme offered by the king is the basis for Bach's incredible "the musical offering" which is a collection of pieces in that style, some of which are fugues including several instruments and interesting concepts, such as the "crab" cannon (the same melody played backwards/forwards against itself).

As one of my professors at the university once said "Solche Männer werden nie wieder geboren" (such men aren't born anymore).


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## solarbard (Feb 8, 2021)

Personally, I believe orchestral/"classical" music was not designed as entertainment, but as healing sound waves to elevate the soul.


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## Lightseeker (Feb 8, 2021)

solarbard said:


> Personally, I believe orchestral/"classical" music was not designed as entertainment, but as healing sound waves to elevate the soul.



You do know that not all classical music is slow and peaceful?


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## dreamtime (Feb 8, 2021)

Lightseeker said:


> You do know that not all classical music is slow and peaceful?



Can you please stop being so passive-aggressive? Ask for clarification if you want to know more, or simply explain your own point of view, instead of asking rhetorical, manipulative questions.


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## Huaqero (Feb 8, 2021)

Collapseinrealtime said:


> is a combination of applied mathematics with artistic intuition, requiring a certain amount of education





Collapseinrealtime said:


> the conspiracy to degrade music over time



Let me haunt you a little...

One more year of lockdowns and distancing hysteria and

performance arts will lose the contact with their audience
artists will be forced to seek other jobs
they will not be interested to train themselves for performing on a master level
demand for musical education will diminish
those with the will to learn music will not find teachers to teach them

*In only a few years, the high levels of the Western Classical Music Art will-be-gone. Forever.*

They will only remain on digital form (that is, if we continue to have the privilege of electrical power).

We need both a critical mass of highly skilled performers/teachers and a critical mass of inspired newcomers to keep the art and pass it to the next generations with high level musical education. _This is a cultural product, it has to be cultured._
We will not be able to reach top levels of musical performances once this branch is broken. And that branch can be broken in only a few years.

Imagine trying to learn music alone; for a neighbourhood rock band that may be the norm, however, imagine trying to become a top level soprano or a virtuoso violinist. That would be impossible!

And, if you manage to become one, few will be there to listen...

"There"? Where? In the abandoned opera houses and theatres, either old or modern ones?
I can already read the discussions on StolenHistory, year 2080, with members wondering why old people used to like to build such huge impressive empty buildings, and how high was the IQ of the civilization that could create such music with those old wooden pieces.

And, even if we come back to our senses and ask the retired top level musicians to perform for us again, or educate us, they will not be in their best form; actually, they will be far from it.
Even they will not be able to recover to their maximum performance quality. This means, noone will ever be able to reach that again.

(The same with ballet, choreography on ice, gymnastics, ... you name it. You know, white people things...)


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## Lightseeker (Feb 8, 2021)

dreamtime said:


> Lightseeker said:
> 
> 
> > You do know that not all classical music is slow and peaceful?
> ...



I wasn't being passive-aggressive. I asked a legit question.


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## Silveryou (Feb 8, 2021)

Huaqero said:


> I can already read the discussions on StolenHistory, year 2080, with members wondering why old people used to like to build such huge empty buildings, and how high was the IQ of the civilization that could create such music with those old wooden pieces.


You are partailly wrong on this. A considerable part of them will say that those buildings were not built by people, but faked by someone to make them believe they are inferior... Nothing is true, everythng is false.


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## freygeist (Feb 8, 2021)

Huaqero said:


> Collapseinrealtime said:
> 
> 
> > is a combination of applied mathematics with artistic intuition, requiring a certain amount of education
> ...



Yes that is indeed a very haunting perspective, but also accurate. That sort of thing is happening to me right now. I didn't have a gig in almost a year, and you can only motivate yourself so far keeping your level, when nobody listens to you.


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## dreamtime (Feb 8, 2021)

Lightseeker said:


> dreamtime said:
> 
> 
> > Lightseeker said:
> ...



For what it's worth, I noticed multiple times that you were quite confrontative, so I ask you to be less confrontative in the future.

Imho, the idea that classical music was originally designed for healing does not imply all classical music to comply with being a certain way, it's just an idea of it's origin. Maybe that's why I assumed you just want to quarrel about irrelevant aspects.


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## solarbard (Feb 8, 2021)

Lightseeker said:


> dreamtime said:
> 
> 
> > Lightseeker said:
> ...


I am a trained flutist who has played with an orchestra, so, yes. Even the dramatic music can be purifying.


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## Huaqero (Feb 8, 2021)

Silveryou said:


> Huaqero said:
> 
> 
> > I can already read the discussions on StolenHistory, year 2080, with members wondering why old people used to like to build such huge empty buildings, and how high was the IQ of the civilization that could create such music with those old wooden pieces.
> ...


Or they will become Wild Party Halls, the Party Masters will find those fancy opera costumes and wear them day and night, and some Wakandian architects will be claimed as the 'builders' of these Halls.


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## Lightseeker (Feb 8, 2021)

dreamtime said:


> Lightseeker said:
> 
> 
> > dreamtime said:
> ...





solarbard said:


> Lightseeker said:
> 
> 
> > dreamtime said:
> ...



That was technically my point. That even a violent dance by Stravinsky or Ravel can have a purifying effect akin to what an adagio by Bach or a Nocturne by Chopin make us feel.


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## Collapseinrealtime (Feb 8, 2021)

Huaqero said:


> Collapseinrealtime said:
> 
> 
> > is a combination of applied mathematics with artistic intuition, requiring a certain amount of education
> ...


Very dark! But you paint a very accurate picture. Let's flip it in the other direction now. The lockdown flip flop continues into the summer. After a year plus of nothing new, regardless of mass protests, people start to wake up further, thinking: "Hey wait a minute! Mass protests don't work! They never do!" Once people finally reach this conclusion, and perhaps this year, they definitely will, they will begin to approach life from a higher minded point of view, pushing forward without regard to the police state apparatus. This is where live music becomes the tool of the populist. 

What if someone secretly organized a series of pop-up music festivals? In the music world, the opportunities are endless for the imaginative anarchist. The true sovereign personality begins to act outside of the box, creating their own box. This is the beginning of the great split, and the soundtrack will be true, grass roots folk. 

Being a musician myself, you better believe I will find reasons to play. Owning my own recording studio, I can produce and release music at my leisure, so long as we still have heat, lights, and internet. When and if that went away, the warm weather brings us musicians outside. Perhaps I'll step out onto my front lawn and have an impromptu show with my acoustic.

Never underestimate the power of well crafted, strategically executed pushback. It will take on many interesting forms, and artists and musicians will play key roles in its success, and succeed, we will.


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## AthroposRex (Feb 8, 2021)

freygeist said:


> AthroposRex said:
> 
> 
> > What do you think of Chevalier de St George, the black Mozart? I've heard a theory that he was the real composer of Mozart's music. Figured I'd ask someone that may be more familiar with the music.
> ...



He was French, I believe. I didn't think the term had to do with his skin color, but rather his getting pushed out of history. I could be wrong, though. His music is very Mozart like, and according to some, Mozart used one of his melodies in a ballet or something. Contemporary with him, anyway.


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## SonofaBor (Feb 9, 2021)

On SH1.0 and in this current manifestation, I can't recall a systematic and deeply insightful research presentation on classical music or romantic music or any music in relation to the official narratives and alternative history.  I lamented this elsewhere, long ago-- feeling responsible but not knowing where to start. What's more, my research preoccupations of late have been on American politics and history. I have yet to see anyone top or even attempt to emulate the work of Miles Mathis on Mozart; and no one here has performed the kind of analysis we see in the better threads on other topics. Because of this lack of material engagement, these musical threads devolve rapidly-- although I think we did a good job critiquing the notion that Adorno wrote all the Beatles songs. Music allows so much emotion and subjective interpretation that AI bots and agent provocateurs can do their dirty work.  I urge those musically inclined to do some digging. There are so many questions and a hungry audience.


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## JWW427 (Feb 9, 2021)

I know little about music other than I enjoy Mozart, Bach, and Vivaldi when I write my books. My art teacher in high school said it boosts creativity.
There are some good things happening creatively with New Age Deep House kinds of things like Ulrich Scnauss and the like.

If I remember correctly, there were attempts in the 20th century to change the harmonious 432 Hertz to a harsher 440 Hertz. I do know Josef Goebbels did this in 1930's Germany. Was it an agenda? I think yes. This applied to classical music for sure.
Hitler certainly loved his Wagner...

The cymatic images on classical music are amazing, especially in 432.


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU84ckD1AcA_

It's a damned star fort!

I believe that geniuses like Mozart may have been prodigies because of their many incarnated lifetimes as a musician honing their craft through history. This makes sense to me.

Classical music came from an age where there was little else but folk tunes sung by villagers, soldiers, and sailors. Complex classic tunes and opera were for the upper crust mainly, and it still has great appeal today. I live near the Kennedy Center for the arts in DC and its always packed for classical concerts. Yo-Yo Ma was amazing. The whole genre does uplift the soul. I think that's the point.

But classical has faded a lot from the sheer amount and variety of modern music over the last 150 years, much of which does not appeal to me, especially Rap and the horrible Death Metal stuff. There's definitely a dark agenda there. Perhaps a satanic one?

I read an account that said extraterrestrials only liked our soothing classical and soft jazz, but that's about it.
At least someone is listening out there!


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## Lightseeker (Feb 9, 2021)

JWW427 said:


> I know little about music other than I enjoy Mozart, Bach, and Vivaldi when I write my books. My art teacher in high school said it boosts creativity.
> There are some good things happening creatively with New Age Deep House kinds of things like Ulrich Scnauss and the like.
> 
> If I remember correctly, there were attempts in the 20th century to change the harmonious 432 Hertz to a harsher 440 Hertz. I do know Josef Goebbels did this in 1930's Germany. Was it an agenda? I think yes. This applied to classical music for sure.
> ...




Why would J. Goebbels, an ardent Germanic, wish to ruin the legacy of German/European composers by changing the concert pitch? Sounds like a Hollywood-tier lie.

Classical music was actually the pop music back then. Common folk would stand outside of concert halls just to hear a Paganini or a Liszt playing a concert. During Bach's times the surname Bach was associated with being a good musician. It was basically a wonderful time for art. 

The ugliness of modern music is not a coincidence. Notice how depressed the youth is. They don't have any beauty to look forward to. All they listen to is vulgar, empty music void of any meaning. Their hearts will never be set in fire when contemplating the work of a Renoir or the virtuosity of a concerto written by Brahms. Instead of wanting to fly across the air like the dancers in a ballet by Ravel or Tchaikovsky, they want to shake their ass to the beat of a rap tune.

We are devolving.


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## JWW427 (Feb 9, 2021)

LS
We are not devolving, we are evolving. But not everyone likes the direction.
When I was a teenager in the 1970's, my Dad yelled at us three "worthless" kids for listening to rock music and smoking pot.
By the time my sisters and I were around 30, we had a deep appreciation for art and classical music. All 3 of us were pen & pencil artists.
Just because young folks are just as clueless today as we once were doesn't mean they are devolving.
The Goebbels story is well-documented, look it up. He also loved modern art. Go figure.
It's a debate, but would you choose the mainstream view that it's a worthless conspiracy?

https://www.btrtoday.com/read/friday-music-and-medicine-week/
https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_consciousscience26.htm


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## Silveryou (Feb 9, 2021)

Lightseeker said:


> We are devolving.


They are devolving.


Huaqero said:


> Or they will become Wild Party Halls, the Party Masters will find those fancy opera costumes and wear them day and night, and some Wakandian architects will be claimed as the 'builders' of these Halls.


I bet _someone _in the future will say that the "Black Mozart" was the true Mozart and the Nazis transformed into a white one because they are evil.
This kind of bulls*it is confirmed by the Black Beethoven hipotesis: 'Beethoven was black': why a century-old idea still has power today. The Guardian, one of the tribes' Toiletpapers.

Black Bach is only the title of a modern _masterpiece._ For the moment...


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## freygeist (Feb 9, 2021)

SonofaBor said:


> On SH1.0 and in this current manifestation, I can't recall a systematic and deeply insightful research presentation on classical music or romantic music or any music in relation to the official narratives and alternative history.  I lamented this elsewhere, long ago-- feeling responsible but not knowing where to start. What's more, my research preoccupations of late have been on American politics and history. I have yet to see anyone top or even attempt to emulate the work of Miles Mathis on Mozart; and no one here has performed the kind of analysis we see in the better threads on other topics. Because of this lack of material engagement, these musical threads devolve rapidly-- although I think we did a good job critiquing the notion that Adorno wrote all the Beatles songs. Music allows so much emotion and subjective interpretation that AI bots and agent provocateurs can do their dirty work.  I urge those musically inclined to do some digging. There are so many questions and a hungry audience.



Yes it's a vast subject, even without taking e.g. the reset theory into consideration, but a clue where to start might be the baroque and early, mid classical era, as that would be probably pre-reset.
Take Bach as a famous example, it is known that his compositions, weren't widely known in his days, and only became later popular through Mendelssohn in the Romantic Era, but we also know, that every important composer after Bach used the Well-Tempered Clavier, which is to this day, the greatest book of musical education. So might Bach be a made up historical figure and this famous book and other works are much older?


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## SonofaBor (Feb 9, 2021)

I have that suspicion, too. He was born in (J)685, immediately in the aftermath of the probable catastrophe, which KD has pegged to 1666. His music is divine, imho. 

The cult of personality seems to have passed him by. Classical music, at least on the radio here, is incomplete without the 19th century soap opera-- which is akin to "the star" system in pop music today. Even into music as wonderful as jazz, the top figures seem fixed by the cabal. For example, the real name of Billie Holliday is Eleanor Fagan. Fagan = Kagan = Kahn = Cohen = Kabal.


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## gkelly (Feb 9, 2021)

I think listening to earlier era music requires more intellect and patience.  But we also are only exposed to the better stuff from that time period.  I am sure there was some really bad classical music that was out there too that didn't survive.


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## David Glenney (Feb 10, 2021)

freygeist said:


> So might Bach be a made up historical figure and this famous book and other works are much older?


Famous, hilarious deceased atheist Douglas Adams, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy author, wrote in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency a plot in which a Time Lord rescued the output of an ancient alien technology that translated EVERYTHING into amazing music and created a false history of a character named Bach under which to publish it for posterity.

Having enjoyed his and another hilarious deceased atheist Terry Pratchett's DISCWORLD books as a normie, I often reflect on a stolen history revelation angle of these works...


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## solarbard (Feb 10, 2021)

gkelly said:


> I think listening to earlier era music requires more intellect and patience.  But we also are only exposed to the better stuff from that time period.  I am sure there was some really bad classical music that was out there too that didn't survive.


That actually reminds me of a band which is completely unknown these days that claimed they would be bigger than the Beatles. I'm certain someone was composing junk in the 17th century.


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## freygeist (Feb 10, 2021)

Yes that is certainly true (Stamitz), and interestingly enough, even stuff by Mozart isn't that great, especially in the piano sonatas.
I always found these difference in quality very strange. With the Beethoven Sonatas or Chopin's piano compositions, it's a very consistent evolution from younger years to older years, but we don't really have that with Mozart. There isn't a clear line from his early works to his late works, it's all rather obscure. For example in Beethoven's music a smaller opus number is always an earlier work, but look at Mozart's piano sonatas, how diffusing everything is with the different numbers for one piece, and sometimes a earlier piece, has a later catalogue number etc....

So, here is a bold theory: Hob, BWV, KV etc. are all made up and pre reset, the authorship of the works listed up in these is unclear. The post reset opus system is authentic.


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## dreamtime (Feb 10, 2021)

solarbard said:


> What do you think of folk music?



Folk music seems to have some resemblance to classical music, imho, when it comes to the vibe I get from it.

But there's a lot of sadness in a lot of traditional folk music, so over time it probably evolved (or devolved) to be a way to process (traumatic) experiences and memories of a nation.

A friend of mine is Ukrainian, and she sent me some traditional slavic folk music.

It's full of sadness, but also of pride and beauty. Beauty in every sense, including the admiration of their women. Slavic folk music embodies the slavic soul. When I listen to it I can feel they went through the Time of Troubles.


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caf32C6Vg5w_


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPaz0KNqssc_​


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## freygeist (Feb 10, 2021)

> Folk music seems to have some resemblance to classical music, imho, when it comes to the vibe I get from it.
> 
> But there's a lot of sadness in a lot of traditional folk music, so over time it probably evolved (or devolved) to be a way to process (traumatic) experiences and memories of a nation.
> 
> ...



Yeah, check out Pelageya!


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## dreamtime (Feb 10, 2021)

freygeist said:


> Yeah, check out Pelageya!



Yeah, I love this song


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B980CAaEYLQ_​


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## freygeist (Feb 10, 2021)

dreamtime said:


> freygeist said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, check out Pelageya!
> ...




Cool, you already know her 

I see a different kind of sadness in Schubert's Winterreise, and this may relate to the longing for the golden past. He also has no opus numbering, he has the "Deutsch-Verzeichnis" (german catalogue) so we have to ask ourselves, where are songs like this really from?


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## dreamtime (Feb 10, 2021)

Another Ukrainian Folk Song dripping with melancholy  Украинская-народная-песня-Ой-там-на-горi - YouTube


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## push4more (Feb 13, 2021)

Lightseeker said:


> This is the kind of thread I can contribute to, because like the OP, I am also a musician.
> 
> Classical music is no doubt the highest form of music. One has to be a musician to appreciate someone like J.S.Bach. As someone with a very fine-tuned ear, I find his music to be the closest there is to something divine in art. In my experience only Ravel can come close.
> 
> ...





A movie trailer for Speed Cubers - 2019 world championship (Rubik's Cubers) - the "
_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wrTIWx_Z6k_
"

There are around 300 solving recipes memorized by expert cubers. A cuber will first check the 6 different cube panels then list a few initial algorithms that might be cube solves. After that they mad dash to use the optimum algorithms to solve. Rubik's is the perfect example of what to me is obviously things like music and also music improvisation. The artist will always use the core set of algorithms, first the initial set and then always more algorithms resulting the tiny number achieving - master level.  Its also obviously people "learn" but its useful to review something like a very "simple" core of algorithms with Rubick's.

All genres for me, there is always the master level artists creating very good music and sometimes exceptional art. Even random music pieces, there is always a composer similar to a speed cuber.

*Poème Symphonique For 100 Metronomes *

GYÖRGY LIGETI, 1962   youtube.com/watch?v=xAYGJmYKrI4

First minute to hurry up the start of the metronomes. The previous minute was also exceptionally artistically.

One day, I had this CD in my car player - was just to try out some Ligeti. Then I thought for sure my CD player was newly broken but there was a tiny glimmer that perhaps real music was more than just my player and waited. Then at around 3 minutes I knew in a flash, Ligeti had very subliminally merged with shock - my entire world stopped. I still have chills.  Its possible I was the only ever Ligeti listener due to my "broken" CD player. Perhaps though, Ligeti tried out quite a few times with others.

Maybe Ligeti also knew that 100 metronomes staged expertly would also know people surely sway always the same way, like his metronomes synchronize eventually.


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## Lightseeker (Feb 13, 2021)

push4more said:


> Lightseeker said:
> 
> 
> > This is the kind of thread I can contribute to, because like the OP, I am also a musician.
> ...




I actually expected this kind of comment from a fan of Ligeti. His music is unlistenable for the most part, just like Schoenberg's.


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## push4more (Feb 13, 2021)

Lightseeker said:


> push4more said:
> 
> 
> > Lightseeker said:
> ...




There is a much higher call for music. It is listenallable.


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## wommak (Feb 13, 2021)

I love how they sing Polka, beautiful language and voices. Bit disapointing that most people know this as a meme. And this is balm for my ears and eyes


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## Lightseeker (Feb 13, 2021)

wommak said:


> I love how they sing Polka, beautiful language and voices. Bit disapointing that most people know this as a meme. And this is balm for my ears and eyes




Interesting. I was browsing their Youtube channel just half an hour ago. I find the girls very beautiful and charming. The music doesn't do much for me, but I like the delivery. Makes me want to explore that country of them.

This is what I don't see in a video for a piece of "music" where 100 metronomes make noise for what seems to be an eternity. What does that "art" lead to? What does it inspire in a human being? Nothing.


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## Silveryou (May 6, 2021)

The fall continues...

Musical notation branded 'colonialist' by Oxford professor hoping to 'decolonise' the curriculum


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## Lightseeker (May 6, 2021)

Silveryou said:


> The fall continues...
> 
> Musical notation branded 'colonialist' by Oxford professor hoping to 'decolonise' the curriculum



I wonder what are the surnames of those professors...


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## Silveryou (May 6, 2021)

Lightseeker said:


> I wonder what are the surnames of those professors...


I wonder if this professor even exists. or is it _just _some fake news? Are these news created to implement a climate of terror?


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## TurpinHero (May 6, 2021)

freygeist said:


> Sorry but the music nerd has to correct you, its from Bach, and that isn't even really clear ^^ But a magnificent piece nonetheless.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, music still has this energy, and the fact that they raised the "Kammerton" (concert pitch) from ca 400 to 440 hertz after the second world war, was to diminish the effect of the divine music.


That change of pitch from 400 to 440 demands its own thread researched by the musicians amongst us. Unfortunately I can’t carry a tune in a bucket.


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## Lightseeker (May 7, 2021)

TurpinHero said:


> That change of pitch from 400 to 440 demands its own thread researched by the musicians amongst us. Unfortunately I can’t carry a tune in a bucket.



For that kidn of thread you will need musicians who are open to spirituality. Unfortunately, most musicians I have met (I am one myself) aren't even willing to consider the fact that the pitch they play in can have an impact upon human psyche.


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## Frodod (Oct 24, 2021)

Lightseeker said:


> Bach wrote things that make me scratch my head, because of how difficult it would be for any modern musician to replicate such feats. Bach's "the musical offering" is proof of him having been a real master.


The mathematical genius of JS Bach by Marcus Du Sautoy.
Music on a Clear Möbius Strip- Numberphile​here is some mindblowing proof of his genius.


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## alltheleaves (Oct 25, 2021)

6079SmithW said:


> I am forced to listen to the radio all day at work and it makes me fucking exhausted when i get home


Earplugs and noise cancellation headphones.

??Any suggestions for a book or video about the change in frequency 440 etc. https://www.google.com/search?q=youtube+music+frequency+change+to+440

One here

_View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NbTjAOaNUmM_


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