# Does the Black Sun mean different things in various occult and esoteric teachings or is the meaning universal?



## Ouroboros226 (May 1, 2022)

Just wondering if the black sun means different things in different cults, organizations, faiths etc. or if the meaning is universal. What does the black sun mean in occult and esoteric teachings?  

The reason I'm asking is a vivid lucid dream that felt so real that it's seared into my memory. A face with twin black suns as eyes and an incredible feeling of malevolence was gazing at me. Daring me to look at it for knowledge. In the dream I felt as if my mind - when I looked at it - was piercing through layers of knowledge of an infinite onion. But most was undecipherable, and the knowledge gained was more experiences, emotions and understanding of the human condition rather than some big secrets of the universe or w/e. There was a lot more but I'll stop there. 

I'm just trying to figure out how to interpret the dream. It was one of those extremely rare dreams you not only manage to remember, but is "burnt" into your mind. I can literally remember the dream visually with life-like accuracy. So yeah does this thing have a universal meaning in esoteric and occult teachings or does it vary a lot? It was as if a featureless and minimalistic replica of my own face was looking at me. The eyes themselves liquid pure "living" black. As if water. Radiating golden rays of light as a normal sun would. There were two pillars as well, and two stone staircases going nowhere (they just ended in mid-air) which didn't make sense. However I saw something similar in a freemason picture.   

Anyway, Thanks in advance for any help, just trying to figure out what the black sun (or two of them in my case) could mean based on its meaning in the occult and esoteric.


----------



## dreamtime (May 1, 2022)

Ouroboros226 said:


> What does the black sun mean in occult and esoteric teachings?



I don't know a lot about this, but it seems that it represents the Demiurge, Saturn, Satan.

I saw a video recently which mentioned that originally Saturn was considered the black sun. While the sun represents god, the black sun represents the material creator, which is basically Satan.

Saturn is also represented by a black cube, which symbolize the material creation.

For Satanists, the black light represents the "true light", as they consider Lucifer they true creator god.

In alchemy, we see a symbol that is referred to in Latin as Sol Niger, literally meaning “Black Sun”. It is a symbol of the process of nigredo, the first stage of the alchemical process denoting a putrefaction or dissolution that constitutes the first stage of a process of purification of matter that leads to the creation of the philosopher’s stone. In a more symbolic sense, the process of nigredo can represent something like the dark night of the soul, a sort of depressive distillation of the soul/psyche that is part of the journey to spiritual awakening or the realization of faith. In general, Sol Niger tends to be a symbol somewhat associated with death, albeit a death that precedes rebirth and renewal, far from the Aryanist fantasies about it being a power source for the “master race”. It is perhaps the association with death and decay that leads some to link the symbol of Sol Niger to Saturn, the Roman god of agriculture and the planet of the same name, and it is here where things get really interesting. (...)​​Saturn, or Saturnus, was also considered a god of dissolution, renewal, as well as liberation. In Rome he was even sometimes identified with Dis Pater, the god of the underworld. It is thus only natural that he might be associated with death and decay, to the extent that he probably ended up having some influences on the Grim Reaper, the popular personification of death, with his scythe or sickle (though the proper Hellenic personification of death was Thanatos, known as Mors in Rome). Some modern commentators of myth also link Saturn with Mahakala, a wrathful manifestation of the Hindu god Shiva and one of the main wrathful deities of esoteric Buddhism. Saturn and Mahakala do have some things in common; both are associated with the colour black, both have some association with time (denoted by Mahakala’s namesake), both can be thought of as chthonic deities to a certain extent (see Bernard Faure’s Protector’s and Predators on the broad chthonic character of Daikokuten, the Japanese transmission of Mahakala), and both have a fairly clear association with death, with Mahakala sometimes being identified with/as death itself (though the name Mahakala is sometimes interpreted as meaning “Beyond Death”). The planet Saturn was also, in some contexts, associated with the underworld in the specific sense that it was seen as the “sun of night”. In ancient Mesopotamian astronomy, Saturn was strangely associated with the Sun, but was also believed to be black in colour, hence in a way it was to them a black sun. This idea was also linked to a myth concerning Shamash, the Babylonian sun god known elsewhere as Utu, who somtimes travelled beneath the earth to the realm of Arallu, the kingdom of the underworld abundant with gold, to fulfill his function as the supreme judge of the dead. (...)​​The Black Sun or Sol Niger in alchemy is a sign that points to the light that awaits those who dive into darkness, into the underworld, in pursuit of spiritual enlightenment.​
The true meaning of the Black Sun

Since  the  late  19th  century  scholars  have  been  puzzled  by  a  conspicuous  peculiarity  in  the Babylonian nomenclature for the planet Saturn: a number of texts refer to Saturn as the “Sun” (dutu/20 or Šamaš), instead of its usual astronomical names (...)This curious practice was in vogue during the period c. 750-612 BC and is not known from earlier periods, with a single possible exception, discussed below. (...)​​As for Saturn’s standard colour, this is almost invariably black – both in Babylonian sources and derivative astrological traditions in the Hellenistic world, medieval Judaism and India. In Babylonian astronomy, as in its successors, each of the planets was associated with such a “canonical” colour: the Sun with gold, the Moon with silver, Mercury with pale red or brown, Venus with blue or green, Mars with red, Jupiter with white, and Saturn with black.​
This is especially clear in the following passage:​​The white star is Jupiter, the Red Star is Mars, the Green  star is Venus, the Black star is Saturn, variant: Mercury.​​(...) If Saturn was most commonly associated with black, rather than any brighter colour, it follows that it was not that colour that prompted an association with the Sun in the Babylonian mind, barring the exceptional case of solar eclipses, discussed below.  Of the factors reviewed above, the “steadiness” of Saturn and its synodic period emerge as the most likely to  have inspired a comparison  with the Sun. This leaves the outstanding question of why the yellowish planet Saturn was paradoxically portrayed as black.​​(PDF) Saturn as the 'Sun of Night' in Ancient Near Eastern Tradition​


----------



## Gladius (May 2, 2022)

While I can't best explain the black sun dream symbolism, I can share with you my own experience in relation to the one you described here. 
My dreams are quite vivid, and I too had this one-of-a-kind dream that is "burnt" to you as you said. 
The concept of receiving hidden knowledge and a look-beyond was there too, very life-like, however I was guided there by the Grim Reaper character, who was quite friendly and insisted to show me things while I was being skeptical to them, in-dream.
The reaper and the black sun are close in symbolism, and both represent knowledge. The knowledge that I had experienced can't be understood in a literal sense: the messages clearly mean something, but require something further to "unlock" them. Time, attention and experience. 

I hypothize that in such dreams, our mind has a way of "pre-programming" us. It points to things that we should be aware of, once we see them in the future, in reality. The messages I received, were meaningless to me for several years, until I started to connect them to new knowledge that I had learned later on. Since I began to see the connection, I'm aware that more pieces will be unlocked in the future. We understand when we're ready to.

Overall I believe that this knowledge+death+renewal symbolism (reaper, black sun, saturn) exists because it is deep knowledge that makes you "die" and "born again" under a new self who now knows things about the world and himself, that change the way you live. And it's probably because you must gain knowledge of the dark parts of the world, to be fully aware and immersed in it. You become aware to "the pain of the world" as I call it. This kind of awareness humbles you and strengthens you. I think many users on this site have experienced this because it is essential for being able to safely look into the wounds of humanity, such as its stolen past. There's a reason why not everyone can do it - it's not just about intellect or skepticism, it's about stomach for darkness.

My advise is to document this dream very well in writing, and see if future knowledge has anything to do with it. 
It will help you with the next dreams as well. The answers you look for are best received by personal conclusions that are relevant to you, and often can't be instantly interpretated by an online explanation.


----------



## moyal (May 2, 2022)

Ouroboros226 said:


> What does the black sun mean in occult and esoteric teachings?  ...





dreamtime said:


> ...it seems that it represents the Demiurge, Saturn, Satan. ...


To complement this, here is an astrological description of Saturn by Robert Hand from the book ”_Horoscope Symbols_” published by Whitford Press

"_Saturn is central to an understanding of the individual and his awareness, though its importance is of a different kind from that of the Sun, Moon, and other personal points. Since Saturn is so slow-moving, its position in the zodiac does not distinguish one individual very well from another. Yet Saturn is an energy that concerns collectives, and the relationship of an individual to the collective aspects of life is one of the most important things we can know about a person.
   One matter must be dealt with immediately. Saturn is undergoing a great rehabilitation nowadays, and most modern writers agree that it is not as malefic as was once thought. Just as Jupiter, once called the ”greater benefic,” can indicate difficult energies at times, it is also now recognized that Saturn can play a positive role. Yet its power for destruction is still great, not because it is intrinsically destructive, but because in many cases we do not know how to handle Saturn energy. Those who have studied planetary energies have learned to handle what is traditionally describes as ”Saturn's malefic effects,” but few have learned that Saturn's greatest threats to happiness come at precisely those times when it seems to be operating positively. In order to understand this, we must first understand Saturn's basic meanings.
   In the course of this text we shall see that Saturn can be seen as the opposite pole of several planetary energies. This stems from the all-pervasive nature of Saturn. Before we look at Saturn's polar relation to Jupiter, let us examine the concept of polarity.
   The experience of the universe that we share with each other is founded directly upon the principle of polarity: up-down, left-right, male-female, backward-forward, I-thou, I-it, good-evil, and so forth. In every pair of polar opposites, each member of the pair derives its meaning from the opposite member: each would be meaningless without the other. We all have noted that anything, no matter how pleasurable it might be at first, in excess becomes cloying and even unpleasant. We enjoy cooling off when it is too hot, warming up when it is too cold. And it is not just a matter of finding a balance. Most people need to go back and forth at least to some degree in order really to appreciate one or the other side of any polarity. This is true even of good and evil. At times, most of us enjoy doing what might be considered evil, but few appreciate unalloyed evil. Similarly, most people find those who are too good rather trying. I believe, along with the various schools of Eastern philosophy, that polarity is intrinsic to the nature of the universe, and that it is proper for humanity to follow the shifting paths between polar opposites. This is the path of the Tao.
   Reality itself gains its varied nature from the interweaving of polar opposites. Without them, there would be no reality that we could relate to, in fact, no existence. Even existence is polarized by nonexistence.
   In the Jupiter-Saturn polarity, the individual pursuing a Jupiterian path reaches out to incorporate as much of the universe as possible. But if this were carried to completion, all existence would be incorporated within the individual. And if the individual were to be everything, in experience as well as fact, there would be nothing to experience outside of the self. Yet one's awareness of oneself is with reference to that which is not part of one. Not-self creates awareness of self; awareness of self creates not-self. When there is only self, the game of existence comes to an end.
   For this reason, the universe resists the individual's reaching out. At some point, it says, ”No! You cannot come any further.” This is the energy of Saturn. It is the energy that maintains reality as we understand it. It makes the rules, sets the limits, creates the structure, and defines the nature of the game.
   Saturn energy affects collectives because it represents that aspect of reality which arises from a consensus among human beings. Saturn energy does not represent truth or absolute reality. It represents a reality that is created socially, operates within a social universe, and has its greatest effects upon an individual in a socially defined context. Those aspects of reality that are purely personal are not so strongly affected by the Saturn archetype.
   Saturn tends to direct the attention of an individual outside the self. It may represent others' opinions, others' needs, others' ideas of the truth, others' law, or more accurately, collective law, collective truth, and so forth.
   The difficulty with Saturn comes from two sources, only one of which is widely understood. That is the one that has given Saturn its reputation as the ”greater malefic.”
   It is not pleasant when reaching out to grasp something to be told it is not attainable. It is not pleasant to encounter one's limitations the first time (although it is pleasant to know them and live according to them without resistance). It is not pleasant to encounter rules that thwart one. Nor is it pleasant to encounter the natural but unlovely consequences of one's mistakes. Sometimes one's collisions with the rules of the game are so violent that they can kill, or at least destroy what one has painfully wrought over the years.
   These, the well-known difficulties with Saturn energy, result from not understanding either one's own limitations or the rules of the game. While Saturn permits and even strengthens certain aspects of personal reality, such reality cannot come into conflict with social, collective, or consensus reality. When it does, the rules of collective reality work with an almost automatic quality, such that one seems to be only suffering the consequences of one's actions. From this come the ideas that Saturn brings what one deserves, or that Saturn is the Lord of Karma. This side of Saturn can handled simply by becoming adequately conscious of the nature of the given situation. In fact, it is such encounters with situations that cause one to mature. Although Saturn here is often painful, it is actually quite creative and is necessary in human experience. This positive side of Saturn's energies has been brought out strongly in recent literature.
   The truly serious problem of Saturn lies in the ideal of reality itself: namely, the equation of reality with truth. Reality seems immutable, orderly, and eternal. Yet life is so short that we cannot see whether or not at some fundamental level the rules of the game are slowly changing. But they may be. What we with our limited perspective think of as reality is not necessarily truth.
   Nevertheless, we need this reality: the experience of living in a universe where everything is in flux, where no rule can be counted on, or where an understanding of yesterday provides no clue for understanding tomorrow, would be enough to send most of us to the madhouse. We depend on a reality system for support, and even if we are at times unfamiliar with its rules, we are grateful for its existence.
   Reality is structure, and so is Saturn. Reality is limitation, and so is Saturn, for everything is as much defined by what it is not as by what it is. If I took a chair and said ”Let the essence of this chair fill this room,” and it were to do so, we would lose the ability to perceive the chair. The chair is defined both by the fact that it occupies whatever space it occupies, and the fact that it does not occupy whatever space it does not occupy. Reality is created by a process of exclusion, of eliminating other possible realities. This aspect of exclusion is one of Saturn's most important attributes.
   The existence of reality as we have described it is not the problem, however. The problem is our addiction to reality. I believe that there are many possible realities and that the world we share is only one of them. Even if you do not agree, it is obvious that within this reality there are many situations where it is possible to define reality in several ways.
   Yet we cannot live with this: we create realities where there are none, simply for the sake of having structure. We exalt belief systems to the level of reality and then persecute others who do not share them. And even more important for ourselves as individuals, we needlessly limit our lives and our growth by excluding possibilities that might bring new life.
   This is why aging is ruled by Saturn. As we get older we actualize more and more and thus have less and less potential. We run the risk of rigidity and premature death. Death ultimately can be understood as the time when all is actualized (at least in this life) and there is no more potential. One can come very close to this state without actually undergoing physical death. This is the real and very serious danger of Saturn.
   Structure becomes rigidity, discipline becomes narrowness, order becomes a straitjacket, and too much patterning kills spontaneity. On another level, an individual's conformity to the consensus of any particular time in history comes to limit, define, and ultimately to strangle that person's creative potential. And this creative potential is the only hope for the future progress of culture. Every time we do what is untrue to our nature, acting not from a real necessity but rather to fulfill what others may expect of us, we commit a crime against ourselves that is peculiarly Saturnine. We move a bit more toward death, more of our potential becomes actual, and what is actual does not express what we are.
   Like all energies, Saturn energy has its time and place. But, because Saturn issues are so central to social existence, we are likely to apply Saturn principles to situations where they are inappropriate. Being mature and able to accept responsibility is Saturnine; so is being guilt-ridden about one's inadequacies. Having a clearly defined image of who and what one is is Saturnine; but so is being so isolated from others that one cannot relate successfully. Alienation and one's sense of having a separate self are the same energy in different degrees in different situations. Knowing one's limitations is Saturnine; so is settling for too little in life. Being realistic is Saturnine; but so is compromising one's integrity and denying one's self-expression for fear of seeing what is really possible in the world.
   As the planetary embodiment of the forces that shape our lives and give them form in the context of a social universe, Saturn is strongly connected to the symbolism of the father. Indeed, Saturn's symbolism is most clearly seen in myths about father-gods. The closest mythological representation of Saturn is not the Saturn-Kronos of Greco-Roman myth, but the Yahweh-Jehovah of the most ancient parts of the Old Testament. This god hands down commandments and demands obedience to them. He is just and righteous in a peculiarly rigid way that lacks mercy: to this god, obeying the letter of the law is more important than acting in gentleness or peace.
   A strong Saturn often indicates a particularly powerful experience of the father principle (sometimes, but not necessarily, embodied in one's biological father). This father principle is experienced in all situations that call for learning a discipline, growing into a social role, or learning the rules. School is Saturnine. So are teachers and guide figures, and often one's boss or employer.
   Saturn tends to focus one's concern on areas of life that need work - not only in the natal chart, but also as Saturn transits and progresses through the natal chart after birth, highlighting various areas of the chart and forcing growth in those directions. Many of the major crises of adulthood are represented at least in part by Saturn transits. These are times when one has to make decisions and pass up one path in favor of another. In this way Saturn energies actualize our lives and at the same time limit future possibilities. Such a process is necessary, though it can have dangerous consequences.
   Saturn only deals with normal, day-to-day kinds of consciousness. It cannot anticipate the unprecedented, nor can it deal with the energies through which new life and creative powers enter the universe. If Saturn is too strong, it will even deny the emergence of such energies. Herein lies another of the deadlier attributes of Saturn. It is the function of the next planet in the solar system, Uranus, to create disruptions in the orderly world of Saturn so that creative energies can flow._"


----------



## Ouroboros226 (May 2, 2022)

Thanks to all of you! Very interesting. And Dreamtime, when you say you don't know much about it you are being very humble here. 

What's been said matches kinda. With the malevolent force trying dissuade me from looking feeling more like a force meant to protect people from looking rather than intending harm. A metaphor could be a chest of gold over a fence of barbwire. You can get the gold, but the cost of blood is explicitly shown. In the dream the malevolent force felt more like a warning.  

When I woke up I could FEEL enlightened, I KNEW I had gotten knowledge I asked for. But it was impossible to state directly what it was. As if it was not surface level but subconscious. 

Not sure what this could mean if anything. But in the dream I first appeared in a light body surrounded by infinite darkness. And I saw someone else's light body. When the faced approached the other being, I knew in the dream if I wanted knowledge I had to gaze at it. So what happened in the dream was that I possessed the other entity, which were trying hard and desperately NOT to look at it. However in the dream I managed to wrestle for control - forcing them to look - so I could look - into the "infinite dark" of the twin black suns. I had a tremendous feeling of moving fast. But it wasn't physical movement we were standing still. I was moving through infinite layers, one being the feeling of a mother trying to save her dying child. One the emotions of a wrathful father punishing his son, etc. etc. I was learning life experiences, emotions and feelings of "every person". But all of this felt like the tip of the iceberg when waking up. There was a sensation of gaining a lot of knowledge which could not be deciphered or understood. As when you know something but it's on the tip of your tongue then disappearing constantly. When you have that loss of train of thought when you are thinking about something and suddenly you are blank. And no matter how much you try to recall what you were thinking of it's just gone. Maybe knowledge which can't be understood by the limitations of being human, or purposely blocked as being forbidden (just speculating here).  

Anyway thanks for sharing. It has given me solid footing to start interpreting at least.


----------



## BusyBaci (May 2, 2022)

Very interesting dream. I don't know much about esoteric and occult but I remember reading more than 12 years ago (somewhere on internet) that Thot was seeking knowledge in the underworld so he build some kind of teleporting gate/machine with green emeralds in Egypt to go there. There is a YouTube channel (Stergio) who explains creation by using masonic teachings and the black sun. Geometrically speaking his explanation doesn't really fit with observations of the luminaries and the flat earth to me, but it's really interesting. Here is the link. 

Here is a screenshot from the film "Pacific Rim" where the protagonist has to go down to the underworld where it shows a radiating black sun. Did it looks like this in your dream? 





_Pacific Rim screenshot_​*Off Topic:* I recall vivid dreams of mine with apocalyptic events. Many times I get to see the sky leaning towards one side with the stars becoming very bright and changing color into intense violet and blue and the whole sky being illuminated with bright red, purple and violet. The stars falling to the ground leaving a bright light trail as they fall, earthquakes and chaos on the streets. I knew during the dream that it was the end.
10 days ago I experienced a similar dream but this time the moon got bigger. It was a full bright moon and I was staring at it. Suddenly a big shadow of a man's hand started to cast shade on it and to rotate it. The hand got away and some black square appeared at the center of the moon, next the moon changed color illuminating in a full bright intense violet and the sky did the same also. The moon's illumination was making me feel sick, my eyes hurt and the headache was strong from it. I got inside and told people to lower the shades and not stare at the moon, but people I was trying to save were already hypothesized staring at the moon and couldn't listen to me. They were immobile and just staring with their eyes wide open towards the moon. Strange things indeed.
Hope it helps somehow.


----------



## Will Scarlet (May 2, 2022)

It may also be worth considering Rahu and Ketu - shadow planets from Vedic Astronomy - particularly as your dream featured two 'black suns'.

"These planets move in retrograde motion. They have malefic and detrimental effects. This is the significance of Rahu and Ketu in astrology. According to Vedic astrology, Rahu represents indulgence. Some of the negative aspects of Rahu are theft, mental illness, death of family members, losses and legal hassles. Rahu also represents diseases such as skin diseases, leprosy, ulcer and breathing problems. However, if Rahu is in the right position in your horoscope, it bestows courage and fame. Rahu also brings instant success and failure.

"Ketu represents diseases related to lungs, digestion issues, brain disorders and problems with hearing. It also represents mystic activities, sufferings, wounds, bad company and false pride. Some of the positive representations of Ketu are Moksha, interest in philosophical pursuits, spiritual pursuits and sudden gains." _Source_


----------



## GandalfTheGreen (May 2, 2022)

Ouroboros226 said:


> Just wondering if the black sun means different things in different cults, organizations, faiths etc. or if the meaning is universal. What does the black sun mean in occult and esoteric teachings?
> 
> The reason I'm asking is a vivid lucid dream that felt so real that it's seared into my memory. A face with twin black suns as eyes and an incredible feeling of malevolence was gazing at me. Daring me to look at it for knowledge. In the dream I felt as if my mind - when I looked at it - was piercing through layers of knowledge of an infinite onion. But most was undecipherable, and the knowledge gained was more experiences, emotions and understanding of the human condition rather than some big secrets of the universe or w/e. There was a lot more but I'll stop there.
> 
> ...


Firstly, *Congratulations on your dream*.   While many will simply disregard a "dream" as a "dream" and nothing more; it's important to remember the historical context of dreams and mankind.   Many "dreamers"  have changed the world today because of their experiences.  Most people are no longer in touch with their ability to dream, or lucid dream for that matter; so to still be able to do so and to do so quite vividly, is impressive.  (To me at least; so I feel that congratulations are in order)

If you were to type into any search engine, you will find a plethora of answers all bringing negative connotations to the Schwarze Sonne; while very little of them actually paying attention to the symbol itself.   Each "sig" rune on the Schwarze Sonne, (or the Sonnenrad) is a representation of each month of the year.  The outer ring of the center black circle, is a symbolic representation of the "firmament" while the outermost ring, where the (lightning) strikes, is the surface of Earth.    The Sonnenrad is an ancient representation of the celestial sphere, which has long since been twisted into being deemed as something foul.  (Exactly like the swastika)   The Ouroboros, (Serpent eating it's own tail)  is symbolic of the milkyway galaxy, the band across the celestial sphere.  (There are hadiths's that claim that the Milkyway is the "doors" to the heavens)

To comment on this: *"The eyes themselves liquid pure "living" black. As if water. Radiating golden rays of light as a normal sun would."*

In it's most natural form, before it is "created"  The is chaos before order.   In order for light to be seen, there first exists darkness.   Our entire existence is based upon the codependent principle that are 2 dimensions that exist in a perpetual dichotomy.  One of creating "space" and "volume" (If one has space, there must be volume to that space)  The other, of counterspace and energy. (Counterspace being the elimination of space, Energy being the thing that fills the volume) Creation from the Void of Chaos.  (This can be a terrifying, yet very wholesome experience)

Now, to touch on this:  *"here were two pillars as well, and two stone staircases going nowhere"*

This sounds like the pillars of Boaz and Jachin.  One pillar is depicted with Earth, a representation of Materia.  The other pillar is depicted with the Celestial Sphere, "The Heavens"  a representation of Spirit.   The stairway, typically depicted in the middle, is a symbolic depiction of ascension.  However in your case, you said there were 2 staircases, and I'm not familiar with that presentation. (Sorry I can't be more helpful)


Best I can explain your "light body" experience, is to point you towards kirlian photography, which demonstrates we exist first and foremost as light, before we are materia. In our dreams, (as well as astral projection)  we exist as energy, when we consciously perceive ourselves in our dreams, we "give" ourselves the sensation of a physical body.  However, we start out as light first; and etheric body. (Soul)

Etheric Body



If you are a follower of the heliocentric representation of reality, I understand that this may be very confusing for you.  Once the mental conditioning that has been placed upon us as children is shattered an inner awakening transpires; a search for truth amidst a world of lies is born.  It seems as if your search got a good "kickstart."

Not sure how far into the rabbit hole you already are, but Welcome!

(P.S. Check out Wewelsburg if you haven't already)

EDIT:   Didn't realize that this is "Ask an Expert"   I am by zero means an expert.   But I'm well on my way out of "the cave."


----------



## Gladius (May 3, 2022)

Ouroboros226 said:


> There was a sensation of gaining a lot of knowledge which could not be deciphered or understood. As when you know something but it's on the tip of your tongue then disappearing constantly. When you have that loss of train of thought when you are thinking about something and suddenly you are blank. And no matter how much you try to recall what you were thinking of it's just gone. Maybe knowledge which can't be understood by the limitations of being human, or purposely blocked as being forbidden (just speculating here).



I have experienced this feeling several times in my life. You can look at it as "limitations", but I prefer a different look. In the end, what we actually get from those dreams, is the acknowledgement of the existence of something beyond what we know. We don't have to know what it is, but we know it's there. It helps to see past our ordinary, known world, and realize this isn't all there is.

We must remember our dreams can't give us much other than ideas.
Similarly, everyone once had that dream where you get to be with your dream woman (heh), but then you wake up and feel as if you "almost" had her. So close.
Same goes for that "knowledge". It's not meant to be acquired in the dream, just like a woman or an item can't be acquired. Only ideas, or motivation for pursuing things. There's of course the whole section of lucid and astral, which may produce other results, but I didn't delve there much.

Interesting to wonder, whether those revalations of knowledge come purely from within us, or somehow from out of ourselves.
In my dream with the reaper, that I mentioned before, I was quite lucid, stubborn and dismissive of the reaper's presence - I was not interested in listening, and it was he who had to convince me to listen, in a friendly way, and every step he took me on, had to be with my vocal agreement. At some point, he took me to another, white layer, where he showed me objects from prehistory, in a place of worship.
From a stone altar, he extracted a certain beverage and told me I must drink to understand. I dismissed him and said he's wasting my time.
He literally had to "summon" the image of one of my good friends, who told me to trust the reaper. I drank, it tasted like carbonized whiskey. The drink made me fly in the air and get thrusted all around, uncontrollably, harder than any dream I had in my life. It was like a terrifying rollercoaster where you're very scared but end up wanting more.
That beverage had some distinct symbolism on it, I can still re-draw that entire bottle from memory.
It might be a real bottle or not, but it seems some entity wanted me to experience this, although I was very stubborn. Or maybe, there are "sides" within us that are divided in such a level that they can present such dream scenarios, where something "foreign" is taking "you" through something.


----------



## Seeker (May 3, 2022)

Is there actually any evidence to support the existence of a 'black sun'? Genuinely curious


----------



## GandalfTheGreen (May 3, 2022)

Seeker said:


> Is there actually any evidence to support the existence of a 'black sun'? Genuinely curious


Very much so!   But those who don't know what they're are looking for, rarely find it.


----------



## Seeker (May 3, 2022)

Well.... can you point me in the right direction?


----------



## GandalfTheGreen (May 3, 2022)

Seeker said:


> Well.... can you point me in the right direction?


Not sure if I'm going to be in trouble for this or not, but there is a "Inverse Earth/Concave Earth/Cellular Earth" thread that is utterly lacking in attention; while the FE thread has gotten over 1,400 replies.

The "Black Sun"  is the "Celestial Sphere"   It contains your zodiac, your "natal chart"  your "soul print."    Of course, all of that is just ignored today in favor of materialism.  In the Inverse Earth,  Earth is literally inside out; with a celestial sphere being contained inside of it.  The "curve" has been physically measured. (By FE core funnily enough, and the Koreshians in the 1800's!)   Old maps demonstrate that the lines of convergence and divergence are opposite with what they are today.  There is only one way to navigate earth, and that is to navigate it as if it was a globe. The only way to fake a shape, and maintain it's dimension, is to turn it inside out.   Just as usual... the jaw dropping truth of reality is right here in front of our faces, and most folks don't have a clue.

All in all, the "right direction"  has to do with your will, and what you want out of your life.  It's always been about the Triumph of the Will.  If you have any direct questions, I'll do my best to answer them.




From the book "Gods of Eden"





News paper from 1999.




Comparison of old maps, to newer maps.





Nasa's famous "Meatball"  which is just the Celestial Sphere.  (The "black" Sun)




The Celestial Sphere.   12 zodiacs, 12 sig runes on the black sun.    They used the nazi's in operation paperclip, because there's no better way to fake the lie, than to use the people who actually knew the truth.

I hope you find what you are looking for.


----------



## Seeker (May 3, 2022)

For a moment, I thought you were going to be cryptic and annoying   but this is actually very interesting to think about. Thank you for sharing it. 
If you have any further information or links I can follow up with, I'd be happy to have a look. If I get any questions, I will be sure to ask them.


----------



## GandalfTheGreen (May 3, 2022)

Seeker said:


> For a moment, I thought you were going to be cryptic and annoying   but this is actually very interesting to think about. Thank you for sharing it.
> If you have any further information or links I can follow up with, I'd be happy to have a look. If I get any questions, I will be sure to ask them.


Thank you for your honesty, it is much appreciated.






Taken from the "illuminatti" card game.   It's surprising how blatant they are about space fakery in the game.


----------



## Quiahuitl (May 3, 2022)

Ouroboros226 said:


> A face with twin black suns as eyes and an incredible feeling of malevolence was gazing at me. Daring me to look at it for knowledge. In the dream I felt as if my mind - when I looked at it - was piercing through layers of knowledge of an infinite onion.





Ouroboros226 said:


> It was as if a featureless and minimalistic replica of my own face was looking at me. The eyes themselves liquid pure "living" black. As if water. Radiating golden rays of light as a normal sun would. There were two pillars as well, and two stone staircases going nowhere (they just ended in mid-air) which didn't make sense.



My opinion - you ascended into the highest level of the Astral plane and came face to face with yourself.  That is your true power right there. Your energetic body, what Casteneda calls the Double.  If you've never experienced power before, you might well interpret it as malevolence, that is most likely a product of your repressed fear.

I am interpreting this via the Toltec system.

Layers of an onion - the Toltecs described reality as consisting of 13 layers, or heavens.  All manifestation originates in the topmost layer (The Black Eagle), and propagates downwards through the various layers until it manifests in our reality, which is called the first heaven in their system. This dream was, I think, in the 11th layer, the home of the four Tezcatlipocah.  These are analogous to archangels and are also called the 'Four pillars of the universe.'

The interesting part for me is you essentially saw four pillars, two of them appearing as stairs.  That's interesting because if you go upwards from this layer in the Astral plane you get to the next layer which is the home of Omecihuatl and Ometecuhtli , Mr and Mrs Two. That would be the light plane. The place of perfectly balanced male and female energies.


----------



## GandalfTheGreen (May 3, 2022)

Quiahuitl said:


> My opinion - you ascended into the highest level of the Astral plane and came face to face with yourself.  That is your true power right there. Your energetic body, what Casteneda calls the Double.  If you've never experienced power before, you might well interpret it as malevolence, that is most likely a product of your repressed fear.
> 
> I am interpreting this via the Toltec system.
> 
> ...


1. I don't believe I've ever heard of anyone who's not a educated practitioner in astral projection ever reaching the highest plane accidentally. Not that it's impossible, just that's is overwhelmingly rare, and I don't think he somehow skipped 10 layers to get to number 11 on pure accident.  But my mind is easily swayed with evidence demonstrating that this kind of thing does happen.

2. I've also never heard of anyone describing any kind of fear, after reaching the highest plane.   Typically, it's feelings of "love, joy, family"  etc  
3.I'm not entirely sure how you determine that pillars are stairs, because I assure you, that they are both optically, and physically different.

4. I don't think I've ever heard any toltec mention the Schwarzze Sonne before.  

While I am not an expert by any sense of the word, I am aware of the large cultural differences of mesoamerican peoples, and Aryans.   Judging from the amazing pyramids the toltecs built, they knew the difference between stairs, and pillars.


----------



## Ouroboros226 (May 3, 2022)

Thanks everyone. Overwhelmingly interesting stuff!  

I forgot one detail but not sure if it hold any relevance or importance. The way I woke up was that I caught myself shouting out my name IRL. I woke up in my bed instantly sitting up - and catched myself SHOUTING my own name out loud and THAT woke me. What was scary about that is that I catched myself shouting my name out loud, and I woke up in time for me to hear me do and say it. But it wasn't conscious. As in - I wasn't in control or choosing to. As if I was a puppet in my own body for a moment.   

I basically woke up because I shouted my own name out loud IRL in my sleep which woke me up abruptly, strangely in time to register myself shouting but witnessing it as an observer instead of deciding it.  



GandalfTheGreen said:


> I don't believe I've ever heard of anyone who's not a educated practitioner in astral projection ever reaching the highest plane accidentally.



I've been obsessed with dreams, the human condition, the mysteries of life, the truth behind everything - from I was 10-11 years old. 35 now. I also have Aspergergs so I'm on the autism spectrum. I will often obsessively run thought experiments in my head which is as disabling in every day life as maladaptive daydreaming. For example putting myself in other people's shoes and trying to understand every perspective of people in all situations to get a full understanding of human behavior. I've also always been obsessed with ancient history.  

The last 4 years I've had an ever increasing frequency of extremely vivid lucid dreams. But only very rarely do I remember them and rarer still do I remember them well or fully. Some of the dreams I do recall. In one of them I was a giant seeking a woman's love. But she sent scorpions after me to kill me, giant scorpions. I fought them off with my spear and my hands but eventually succumbed. In one dream I was in one of those yellow school busses from the US. Traversing through space when I felt drained of energy. Spotting a red fortress built of crystal I willed myself inside. There was a maze and I struggled until I realized I could just will myself to the middle.   

In the middle of this labyrinth was a naked woman with long black hair sitting infront of me cradling a child. Mirrors everywhere but none showed my reflection. I startled her when I touched her shoulder and she turned her face. Her eyes and mouth was sewn shut, and the baby had multiple rows of teeth and looked straight up more demonic than human. When the "child" saw me it screeched a high pitched screech which woke me up. And I had a hypnagogic sleep hallucination in that after I woke up I could still briefly hear the screech and saw colors on the wall with the text "synthesis error".  

In another dream I was dying of cold in a storm. I spotted a cabin, but also a woman in the snow lifeless. I felt drained and heavy. I knew that if I tried to save her we would both die, so the smart thing was to run for the cabin. But I lifted her up and tried carrying her with me anyway. When I lifted her up, my energy returned in my dream and made it easy to run over in time. Inside the cabin was several family and friends from IRL sitting around talking in a living room. But they seemed oblivious to my presence.   

I went to the bathroom inside the cabin and looked myself in the mirror. Green emerald glow around my pupils (the iris it's called in English I think). As I was pondering this a black cat walked past the bathroom door which was half-open. Then I woke up.  

In one dream my home city is in ruins. A glowing white sphere hovers over it. I walk up the mountain with other survivors to escape. In one dream I saw a woman with prismatic skin glowing. After having taken off her "fake flesh" which was like... skin but not her own. Pale and dry. But glowing underneath. Rivers flow against gravity and even in the air. She wants me to see her like this. I tell her she looks beautiful and smiles, but I was stupid and tried to couple with her in the dream. She flew away and I flew after her. I saw emerald gardens as far as the eye could see. But she was too fast.  

In one dream the God Apollo showed me how to communicate with him. I had to sacrifice an orange cat over a stone brazier, pull the insides out, and light it on fire. He told me I was stubborn, but if I wanted to "chat" with him I HAD to do this. I haven't though because... I love cats and don't want to hurt one. Didn't know Apollo wanted animal sacrifices.  

I could see how WW3 starts. An oil pipe blows up in Turkey. So if you see that on the news get out of major cities if you live in one  

I've always had a creative mind. I can create any scenario from earlier in life or any scenario I want to imagine. And I can see it as if real in my mind's eye. It's hard to explain, also I thought everyone was thinking like this. But a friend told me she can't see images in her head (really that isn't the norm?). I can create and see anything and everything in my minds eye and see it as if it was real. It's how I run most my thought experiments. By playing out an act in my head.    

Anyway! Mental Illness or enlightened. Take your pick. However I've always been fanatical in my desire to understand existence. Leading me to many existential crisises. I've run thought experiments all my life. Sometimes hours upon hours without end. I sometimes pray to various Gods before sleeping asking them to guide me or show me something incredible. The only ones who answered though was Apollo, but he showed me a ritual he wanted me to do but I won't. Also had the dream of the ancient workshop where I was supposed to look for Mangyr river in Turkey but the river dried out ages ago so where it lies now isn't easy to figure out.  

I hope I can share this without coming across as crazy  It's just that my lucid dream frequency have increased the last few years. And more often I can remember them now and see them in my mind. It's just interpreting them I struggle with.


----------



## Quiahuitl (May 3, 2022)

Saying your name out loud in dreaming is a benchmark of a very high level of attainment.  Most likely you've been trained in the dreaming arts in previous lives, and that training is surfacing in this one.

I did a dreaming training course and the teacher told me if I could say my name out loud in a dream, that would be a huge step forward.  Funny thing is, I did it the night before the course started.  So I guess you and I are similar.

To put that into context, I know a professional dreamer who can create anything he wants in lucid dreaming and everything is highly tactile for him with sound, smell and so on.  After many years of doing this, he says there are only two thing he can't do - say his name out loud and put water onto his face.


----------



## Ouroboros226 (May 3, 2022)

Quiahuitl said:


> Saying your name out loud in dreaming is a benchmark of a very high level of attainment.  Most likely you've been trained in the dreaming arts in previous lives, and that training is surfacing in this one.
> 
> I did a dreaming training course and the teacher told me if I could say my name out loud in a dream, that would be a huge step forward.  Funny thing is, I did it the night before the course started.  So I guess you and I are similar.
> 
> To put that into context, I know a professional dreamer who can create anything he wants in lucid dreaming and everything is highly tactile for him with sound, smell and so on.  After many years of doing this, he says there are only two thing he can't do - say his name out loud and put water onto his face.


Ohh cool! I can't smell or taste anything in my dreams. But I did manage to look at my hands in one. The issue I have with talking about this stuff is that I don't really want to come across as wanting to present myself as enlightened in any way. Because I think claiming such borders too much on being presumtious and arrogant.   

In any case - dreaming is wonderous and fun. I just wish I could lucid dream even more. My current ongoing dream experiment like I mentioned above is to pray to different gods and see if I get a dream with any insight or knowledge. Then I'd have to repeat it with the same God to rule out coincidence. I'm actually agnostic so I'm not sold on gods being real. Maybe they are simply spiritual entities of some kind. I don't know. Anyway sorry for ranting.   

And thanks again for all the input. Mahakala is very fascinating. I can imagine any entity trying to claim the power of the universe be frustrated in having time as their final opponent. An unwinnable battle. Permiating everything defeating it would be defeating yourself.    

I was inspired to make this tattoo from a dream I had.

IMGUR LINK


----------



## PatrickMPDonnelly (May 8, 2022)

The Romans celebrated Saturnalia at perihelion. It varies, but Epiphany is always close to that time, the 12th day of Christmas. We celebtrate birth of the Earth at that time, now disguised as the son of a carpenter. 
Saturn is the name for the planet that used to orbit Sirius and now forms the focus for the star we call Sol or Sun.

The Black Sun happens every time that the polarity of the filament connected to the Galactic centre changes polarity. It is roughly the square of the full cycle of polarity changes on the Sun, the so called sunspot cycle.
With the change of polarity, the alternating current reverses, but there is an hiatus. The photosphere disappears. The Corona remains. It takes the appearance of a dove, a phoenix, a rose or a cross or all of these and more. 
This is the time of the black Sun. Very little light is prrovided for two days, say Friday to Sunday morning.
I have no idea what happens 50 days later, except perhpas for enhanced 'mental' powers, maybe?


----------



## ThomasVonDerBosch (May 17, 2022)

I've heard and read a few things about the Black Sun. The most believable to me is the story of the "Smokey God". In short our plane of existence is shaped like an 800 mile thick record with a hole in the middle (North) and also some ways to get to the other side via the south. Now blocked by international treaty. Assuming we are on the A side, the B side has a Black Sun that provides a constant light and temperature that allows all beings to live an extremely long time and grow to extraordinary size. This sun does not rotate in giant circles but stays exactly in the middle. The five races of the B side live in harmony with each other, the flora, fauna and are telepathic. 

As a child I had a constantly reoccurring dream of Darth Vader chasing me through my grade school hallways. I have been attacked while dreaming (and while awake) many times in my early childhood.

Until the time I realized I am the most powerful being in my dreams.
I was riding my motorcycle trying to head north to a friends place in a neighbourhood I was unfamiliar with. When I made a turn in the North direction the street became dark and sinister feeling. Like an Adams family set. I wasn't afraid and figured I needed to go North and continued on until I got to a point where the road ended and there was a fence with an opening for pedestrians into a park where I could make out a German Shepherd dog listening to his owner who was out of my view due to a wall. I decided to turn around because I would have to ride my motorcycle through a public park to keep going North. Here's where it gets interesting. As Im about to get to where the dark sinister scene started. Someone flashes by me and slams a gate closed, effectively barring my exit. I feel he is the dog owner And a vampire bent on making me his victim. At this point I think no fing way and pull out my silver gun w silver bullets and turn 180deg in my seat to shoot not one but two dogs and then back to the owner who is running towards me. He gets one in the head. As soon as he is dead the scene changes to a nice sunny day and the gate is gone. Since this dream Ive had to defend myself a few times. I always get the feeling there is a darkness but I have no fear as where there is light darkness cannot enter Then I mess them up lol
The last time I was enjoying a nice sunny day on a park bench when five thugs decided to try and intimidate me into giving them money. Thug, "Hey do you know what time it is?" Me"Ja its time for you to die!" as I pull out my hand cannon and start shooting. lol I was actually more upset that I had to leave that nice spot because of the bodies. No remorse.... those that mess with me in MY dreams do so at their own peril!!

btw I am an animal lover, just not the demon possessed kind.


----------



## Seeker (May 18, 2022)

Ouroboros226 said:


> Ohh cool! I can't smell or taste anything in my dreams. But I did manage to look at my hands in one. The issue I have with talking about this stuff is that I don't really want to come across as wanting to present myself as enlightened in any way. Because I think claiming such borders too much on being presumtious and arrogant.
> 
> In any case - dreaming is wonderous and fun. I just wish I could lucid dream even more. My current ongoing dream experiment like I mentioned above is to pray to different gods and see if I get a dream with any insight or knowledge. Then I'd have to repeat it with the same God to rule out coincidence. I'm actually agnostic so I'm not sold on gods being real. Maybe they are simply spiritual entities of some kind. I don't know. Anyway sorry for ranting.
> 
> ...


@Ouroboros226
If you don't mind sharing, can I ask what you eat? What is your diet like? (in the real world, of course)
Also, what age are you, or if you dont want to be specific, what age range do you fall into?


----------



## Udjat (May 19, 2022)

Hello everyone!

I believe the planet Saturn is also connected with Stonehenge.  In some sci-fi movies, Saturn is the planet that supposedly is the planet that we humans go to when planet earth can not be habitable anymore. 

I know this seems weird, but there is a song called "Black Old Sun" by Soundgarden.  Now I have to go and listen to it well, and pay attention to the words.  Maybe there is some hidden connection or not.

Dreams can seem to be very real.  I myself have had many dreams that seem to be from past lives. I have even had one dream, that I could fly, and I just got up off the couch, walked over to the kitchen sink, opened the window that was above the sink, and climbed up and flew out of the window.  I have had dreams of living on another planet, and how I knew was because there happened to be two moons on the horizon.  There have been many more dreams, and even emotions, senses, seem to be in play in these dreams, which makes them all the more powerful and memorable.  There are many things that may contribute to these dreams, like for instance what Seeker had asked, what is your diet, what is your stress level, how much, television or screen time do you allow yourself to have, and what is going on in your everyday life.  

On the other hand, sometimes people have gifts that allow them to tap into different areas of the brain awake, or sleeping.  Remember Edgar Cayce, the sleeping prophet?  I don't know but wanted to share!  Thanks!! Be Well!


----------



## ThomasVonDerBosch (May 20, 2022)

As if on cue my friend sends me a link to an old video of a 33rd teaching the basics, and there's the black sun.......

Cosmology according to a 33rd


----------



## Apollonius (May 21, 2022)

ThomasVonDerBosch said:


> As if on cue my friend sends me a link to an old video of a 33rd teaching the basics, and there's the black sun.......
> 
> Cosmology according to a 33rd


It shouldn't be too hard to wear a black costume, claim to be a 33rd degree Freemason and present pseudo-evidence for Flat Earth.

Do you really believe these?


----------



## dreamtime (May 21, 2022)

From Fritz Springmeier:

_“Saturn is an important key to understanding the long heritage that this conspiracy has back to antiquity. The city of Rome was originally known as Saturnia or City of Saturn. The Roman Catholic church retains much of the Saturn worship in its rituals. Saturn also relates to Lucifer. In various occult dictionaries, Saturn is associated with evil.”_​
In Book VIII of the _Aeneid_, King Evander is pointing out the future site of Rome elaborates on the ruins of a town called Saturnia, located on the Capitoline Hill.

_“Tradition related that Saturn, the earliest god of agriculture worshipped in Italy . . . dwelt on the hill afterward called the Capitoline, and introduced the golden age into Italy whilst reigning there; whence [come the terms:] the Saturnian reign, mountain, land and city.” _​
Johann D. Fuss, _Roman Antiquities_, (Oxford: D. A. Talboys, 1840), p. 359.


----------



## ThomasVonDerBosch (May 21, 2022)

Hi Apollonius, my beliefs are based on what I can visibly observe. This fits into what is observable except for one thing. I observe the moon is lit by the Sun, not the black Sun as in the video. However I am open to different interpretations....

Whether the presentation is a masonic teaching or not is irrelevant. It fits observable facts.

The Black Sun being Saturn or Lucifer or some such nonsense sounds like the same Jesuit/Jewish deception to me. Completely unproovable and doesn't fit any observable fact imho.


----------



## FarewellAngelina (May 22, 2022)

It may be that the dark part of the moon is lit by the black sun hence the lunar phases. I don't understand why the visibly dark part of the moon shows no faint images of craters.

Darkness is just those parts of the electromagnetic spectrum that our eyes cannot register as a colour.

Liked the masonic video - much FE theory in there.


----------



## GandalfTheGreen (May 25, 2022)

ThomasVonDerBosch said:


> Hi Apollonius, my beliefs are based on what I can visibly observe. This fits into what is observable except for one thing. I observe the moon is lit by the Sun, not the black Sun as in the video. However I am open to different interpretations....
> 
> Whether the presentation is a masonic teaching or not is irrelevant. It fits observable facts.
> 
> The Black Sun being Saturn or Lucifer or some such nonsense sounds like the same Jesuit/Jewish deception to me. Completely unproovable and doesn't fit any observable fact imho.



Observation is the foundation for illusion.  All illusion starts with what you presume you see.

There is a Cellular Earth/Concave Earth/Inverse Earth thread for those who wish to understand intelligent design, and truly appreciate it for what it is.   There's also a thread for those who only believe what their eyes tell them. (flat earth)

The presentation being masonic is highly relevant, because they are literal masters of the Hegelian dialectic, providing you two sides to squabble over while they control a 3rd narrative unseen by those who were only looking at the two infront of them.  (Relying on the body instead of the mind)

The Black Sun, is the Celestial Sphere.  Complete with a firmament, 12 sig runes for each month, and the exterior circle Earth, the Heart of Creation.  The lie has always been the same.  Hiding you from yourself.  Hiding your Creator from you.  Hiding your history from you.

Any information freely accepted from freemasons is subject to severe scrutiny; because they are masters of giving you half truth in one hand, and half lie in the other, and then switching hands.

The same people who tell you what's evil, tell you what's good.


----------



## ThomasVonDerBosch (May 25, 2022)

Observation is the foundation of science unless wilful deception is involved. ie 5d hologram, jinn, demons, magik, paid off scientists and of course the old hegelian tricks you mention. Without observation, preferably of nature, we would learn nothing at all.

Keeping on topic. I have never heard of your concept. It sounds like your saying the firmament IS the Black Sun.

Another Interesting Story of getting to the other side via the south.


----------



## Udjat (May 27, 2022)

Sorry about my past post I just wanted to correct myself, the song is "Black Hole Sun" by Soundgarden, and I did look up the lyrics and they are pretty haunting.  It is definitely relative to this discussion but it is art and it is left up to interpretation.  

I would also like to point out that a reference to Black Sun might be a similar reference, Black Hole Sun which is a star that has imploded, and becomes a black hole.  But the good news is, that supposedly rebirth of a galaxy happens through this cosmic event.  The reason why I bring this up is because as far as I remember, most peoples or human, groups religiously revere the sun and see it as a God or the center of the peoples being.  

Are we talking about Nemesis?


----------



## BernaysSauce (Jun 15, 2022)

Here come's the sun! I've been looking without looking for a place like this for some time now and i finally found it.

I'm going to start by proposing that the black sun is actually Ultra Violet, not black. I think black is utilised for contrast, which is useful for the purpose's of symbology.

It's a long story, so I'll start with a little background. 



Spoiler: background



I was a teenage communist, right up until my 30th year. The world wasn't treating me as it should, i wanted life to care for me, to provide, and i was willing to offer the bare minimum (at most) in return. 2020, Lockdown 1 UK. I spent my time smoking copious amount's of cannabis and listening to music. I was listening to lot's of song's i'd not heard before and stack's of song's that had a place in my heart and mind. I was rueing my decision to discard my cassettes and cd's because i no longer needed them (i know), because spotify had them all. I started to remember in a Proustian way, memory access via melody's linked to memory's. They were vivid, i was there, only i saw my action's from other angles, from other people's perspective's. I remembered my intention's. I had been a shitbag. Duplicitous to the end. Taking ownership of this fact, i continued, other people had also been shitbag's. After a while i opened up to my housemate at the time about this, he is fairly open minded, the conversation's were fulfilling, if not always fruitful, and that's fine. My conclusion was that consciousness is the place in which we convince ourselves that we are fulfilling our sub-conscious desires for good, for the best. I'm not qualified to put that into print, that is my takeaway from that period of my life, along with the thought that 'art is the idea, all else is craft'. That's not to disparage craft, craft is something i've always shied away from, the work is necessary to bring the idea to fruition, perhaps thats not a revelation to most but it was to me at that time.

Looking at the world in a new way, my attempts to see beyond the many shop fronts, the facades, led me to start look for answer's as to what was happening, what was covid 19? I don't believe i found anything more substantial than anybody else. I looked in the usual place's, i saw the same as everybody else that was looking ; bill gates (theres an old monty python episode that has, if remember correctly, a british fish, eaten by a bigger american fish, eaten by bigger chinese fish, eaten by a bigger fish with the windows logo on it), kabal, q, shell companies in the US and china pinging money back and forth, freshly formed, in california and wuhan. lockstep (as boris said "rishi and i are working in complete lockstep" when rumours of a rift did abound. ENTRUST, the european vaccine passport developers owned by the quandt family of bmw and mr hess fame.

I was ready, or at least i thought i was for rebellion, uprising, revolution. They couldn't remove my right to consent or not, they would not maintain control over me. Eventually i stopped looking for a scapegoat, and decided to look at myself some more, and i realised, nobody has control of me, they only pretend to have control, "would you kindly?". I got into etymology and symbology, much the same when you get down to it.

June 2020, i was sat on the sofa, smoking again, no music, silence. I lifted my head toward the ceiling involuntarily and there it hung for about 10 seconds or so. My head dropped, my expression changed, my friend jokingly asked if i'd "seen god", and i replied with a real slow shrug and an i don't know what the fuck that was face. I then stared into the space occupied by the floor for about 40 minutes, trying to figure out what had happened. A few days later i opened up to my housemate about what i thought had happened, and what i had seen. He is a fairly good artist, he can draw, he suggested i scribble out what i saw and he would use the emphasised lines to sketch what he could. My sketch was a background of black, blue, red, and violet, front and centre 2 yellow sets of waves. What he extrapolated from that was the outline of what is now my avatar on this site. It was at this time that i suggested that perhaps i'd seen a black hole, remotely, or had a stroke. I also informed my friend that there would be war on the streets of europe when covid was old hat. He did not think that possible as it would be so expensive to rebuild (back better). My final prediction at this time was that the 3rd world war would take place around the world, all at once, on the streets, and that everybody would be where they needed to be, to do what they needed to do, and that we would all meet on the other side.

Not many days later i was suddenly convinced of vampires, not blood suckers but energy eating 'people'. This, my friend could not accept, i feel now, that that is because he is one of those people. He began to baby me, to condescend. I had to start smoking (cigarettes and cigarettes only at this point) outside to find some space. When smoking in the back garden, a small egg fell from the sky, breaking on my left shoe. Instantly, i epiphanied. This is what i was doing to my own son, in slow motion. I thought i could be a father 1 day out of every 7 and absolve myself of responsibilities, and therefore blame for the eventual outcome of my voluntary absenteeism. It was not possible for me to remain with his mother, though i could have been much more readily available.( I found jung and the shadow around this time.)I dove into the king james, i didn't eat for 4/5 days, drinking water when it was essentially forced on me. Many cigarettes and much silence later, i began to talk again, to eat, to drink. I flirted with christianity for a good while after this, on and off, but could never bring myself to submit.

 I began to be more involved in my sons life, regularly going to spend time with him at his mothers house. This abruptly stopped because after too long in each others company, his mother and i turn on each other, it cant be helped. Sensing that this was happening i decided to go home for a while to let things cool off.  His mother did not like this. She began screaming and shouting, i was stood near the top of the stairs, i would not move because i knew what was coming. His mother barged past me, and then made the accusation that i had tried to push her down the stairs, what i knew would happen, happened anyway. I left the house after explaining my position to my son and he appeared to understand. The police were called. I waited outside, away from the house until they arrived as i had nothing to hide. After a brief conversation, i was on my way.

I'd stopped masturbating, no porn for 4-6 weeks, no sexual partner. August 2020, i was woken in the night by the light of the full moon, framed by my open window. I felt compelled to lay down a towel and pay tribute to the beauty before my eyes. No imagination, no porn, just what was before my eyes, and i did achieve what felt like the most intense orgasm i've ever experienced. This is probably due to the lack of for what was quite a while, i know. I was seeking interior and exterior adventure, i had decided to get as feral as i could manage, i wanted to find the line, the edge. This particular incident was a one-off, but i sought drunkeness, sex, drugs, and shock value wherever i could for a while. This was my own 'testing the spirits' experiment. I wanted to pull down all of the architecture that lay before me to make way for the re-building of my own perception.

A short time later, i was startled out of my sleep by a high pitched ringing noise, not unpleasant, yet intense,that seemed to be coming from above the house. I turned on the light, checked the time 3:16am (witching hour oooooo). I looked outside the window, lights off all around, home security alarms ringing, nobody around. The noise wouldn't relent. I couldn't bring myself to leave the room, i waited, and waited, i picked up the bible, turned to 3:16 ; *“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life*. John 3:16, KJV: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. The ringing stopped, i fell back to sleep. This was the cue to leave behind the feral behaviour.

January 2021, i received a txt from my sons mother explaining that she needed help because she felt as though she could "do something stupid". I went to stay at their house to help as best i could, knowing full well the potential for more false allegations. Almost as soon as i had arrived his mother had compiled a collection of pills and stuffed them into her mouth, leaving a suicide note on the kitchen side. I wrestled her to the ground, removing the pills with my hand. I stayed with her, called an ambulance just incase, and the police because i didn't know where to turn. I had to become a mental health nurse, a carer, unqualified, and look after my son, and his little brother, who at 4 years of age was incapable of speech, understanding instruction, and was more feral than i ever could try to be. His brother was in this way through sheer neglect. Social services had signed them off at the start of the covid storyline, no mental health help was on offer.
I stayed for roughly 3 weeks. Another police call out was made to the police, by myself, as she had locked herself in the bathroom with razorblades,and was insisting the spirit of her deceased son was telling her to kill herself. There was no help, life had become a low budget horror movie. I was studying Constantine, the chi-rho, saint cecilia in an attempt to raise myself above my surroundings as best i could, and finding time to play my guitar here and there, during placid moments. Having read revelation over and over, i proclaimed jesus and lucifer, one and the same.



BLACK SUN

Early February 2021.

I rose in the morning, brewed up some coffee, rolled a cigarette, que'd up a patti smith song i'd never heard before "constantines dream".
I stepped out into the front garden, to my right, a couple of builders on a rooftop, looking in the direction of the sun. I looked to the left, the sun was masked by a vibrating circle, violet, i could look directly, it was semi-opaque. The sun still shone, daylight was all around, but the sun was covered. I felt an intense heat, not uncomfortable though, it ran through me, i felt my heart was on fire. The violet colour, moments later, was billowing through the clouds overhead and all around. I felt i was swaying in the air with the wind, though i know i wasn't. I fell to me knees, tears streaming down my face, humbled, and sorry, repeating the word "no" for a time as i came face to face with my previous arrogance, my 2 faces. Also, i did not feel worthy of the moment, this passed quickly, and i was calmed, as though id been touched by love itself. This lasted for approximately 20/25 minutes.

I was begged to stay longer and longer, each time his mother would feign improvement until i thought it time to leave. This could not continue, the house continued to fall apart, i continued to sacrifice myself for her. February 14th 2021, critical mass was reached, social services were called, the children came with me, their mother for psychiatric screening. Love has to be tough sometimes, realities have to be faced (yes, i realise how ludicrous that sounds amidst all of this). As we waited for the police to arrive to give the ok for this to happen and to see to their mother and my anxiety was hitting a crescendo, my head was raised to meet the chi-rho, huge, perfectly symmetrical, minus the handle, embossed in the clouds, above the shop across the road. I was told (or thought in a voice that wasn't my own) to "calm, remain calm, it is a matter of time, no matter how long it takes, only time". My head bowed, as the police pulled up, in the corner of my eye.

Some hours later, we got the ok to leave with the children. His mother still lives in her house, she is coping better with life generally but not together enough to house the kids. She has stopped accusing me of beating her younger son.  My son has lived with me since that day, in peace, with stability, some structure, and with plenty of room in which to discover himself. His brother resides in foster care, where he receives the love and nurture he sorely needs. He is toilet trained now, he is developing some vocabulary, he conducts himself with less aggression and less violence. All 3 are still in regular contact with each other, and life is lighter, revolution is internal, multiplied externally, eternally, in the motion of the cosmic ocean that is time itself.

I don't know if my collage avatar is positive or not. It is what it is, a monument to a moment, nestled amongst a million more.

I came across the association between the word 'pylon' and ancient egypt recently. weird.

 I know that i wrote a lot of stuff here,  i feel its important to give as full a picture as i can., though theres so much left unsaid in the spaces in between. Hopefully somebody has more than 'schizophrenia' or 'un/sub/conscious projection'. The more angles the better please.


----------



## KeithUK (Jun 18, 2022)

In the realm of the esoteric, in terms of 'great year cycles,' it is held that certain special planetary alignments trigger very exotic effects within the solar system. One of them being that the sun 'switches off' temporarily as a visible emitter of light. In some records, it is observed to change colour as this unfolds. Sometimes turning red first before going dark.


----------



## BernaysSauce (Jun 19, 2022)

KeithUK said:


> In the realm of the esoteric, in terms of 'great year cycles,' it is held that certain special planetary alignments trigger very exotic effects within the solar system. One of them being that the sun 'switches off' temporarily as a visible emitter of light. In some records, it is observed to change colour as this unfolds. Sometimes turning red first before going dark.


The issue there is that my son briefly saw a rainbow Corona and nothing more, his mother saw a sun brighter than she'd ever seen. I saw a purple vibrating disc and violet flow into the clouds.

The purple disc wouldn't need to be the size of the sun, but closer to us. I'm thinking solar flare. What I didn't mention is that like bono, and monet, I can see within the UV light range. I trace this back to looking directly at a solar eclipse in my youth (purely because I was told not to), however, I can't prove that.


----------

