# Oera Linda the Deluge Book



## WorldWar1812 (Dec 23, 2020)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oera_Linda_Book


> The Oera Linda Book is a manuscript written in a form of Old Frisian, purporting to cover historical, mythological, and religious themes of remote antiquity, from 2194 BCE to 803 CE. Among academics in Germanic philology, the document is widely considered to be a hoax or forgery.



So we deal here with the ancient deluge. It's an interesting time-rank covering "old world" (classical, greek -roman, etruscan, or whatever the name you want to use, Aryans, Tatar, etc, etc). The biblical flood.

*2193 BC - 1177 BC*

 ​
As you see official history shows they really don't know in detail what, when and where happened. For me it's interesting what has survived in myths, legends, and "forgeries". All these problems in Atlantic as a base for the Atlantis question.

One description talks about an area in the north sea (between denmark and shetland islands), we have another point related (Friesland Island), Greenland being depopulated. So for me I want to focus this, more than the ancient deluge, specifically a time around 1000 years ago.

  ​
Did Frisians came from Friesland Island?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frislandhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisia

​
Oere Linda is officially a fraud, a forgery.



> How to Deal with Holy Books in an Age of Emerging Science. The Oera Linda Book as a New Age Bible Goffe Jensma, Leeuwarden
> 
> Citation Information. Fabula. Volume 48, Issue 3-4, Pages 229–249, ISSN (Online) 1316-0464, ISSN (Print) 0014-6242, DOI: 10.1515/FABL.2007.019, /November/2007
> 
> ...




As I pointed I focus this specifically around 10th-Century, because the book comes from Frisians and Friesland Island we know it's not a myth, and was widely shown in maps until 1400s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisland
More than the atlantis thing, but maybe there are some clues mixed.



> Ch XXII: HOW THE BAD TIME CAME.
> 
> 2. In the midst of this stillness the Earth began to tremble as if she was dying. The mountains opened  to vomit forth fire and flames. Some sank into the bosom of the Earth, and in other places mountains rose  out of the plain.
> 
> ...



Really a forgery?. Now some people think it isn't.

https://becomingborealis.com/jan-ott-new-translation-of-the-frisian-oera-linda/https://redice.tv/red-ice-radio/oera-linda-book-an-ancient-frisian-manuscript
​
The book is officially set as far as 803 AC. So we talk probably around 1000 years ago (maybe even 12-13th Centuries).

​
This symbol it's similar to christian chi-rho (crismon), the book and Jan Ott interpretation talks about an age plenty of floods. It seems to me (taking modern greek alphabet), this is linked to Atlantis (Atelan-Aztlan - big land gone).

​
https://www.omniglot.com/writing/vinca.htm
These events forced people to great migrations by sea

 ​ 

We can set this piece, like a puzzle, besides another smaller pieces and see how it fits together.

​


> Circa the year 985, Erik the Red led 25 ships from Iceland to Greenland, launching a Norse settlement  there and giving the vast ice continent the name "Greenland." Within just a few decades, the Norse -- sometimes also dubbed Vikings -- would make it to Newfoundland as well. They maintained settlements of up to a few thousand people in southwest Greenland for several centuries, keeping livestock and hunting  seals, building churches whose ruins still stand today, and sending back valuable walrus tusks and other prizes for trade -- until, that is, these settlements were abandoned by the mid-1400s.
> 
> However, the colonies died out between about 1360 and 1460 AD at the onset of the Little Ice Age, leaving only
> ruins and a longstanding mystery as to what happened.




Thinking on:

1º-Climate abrupt changes (ice plate moving from Alaska to Greenland).

2º-Big catastrophe in northern areas with big floods (melting ice). Islands sunk (like Frisia -by the way I wonder if Frisons come from Freeze), and some other small islands (Saint Brandan, Borondon Island, in the north atlantic ocean (that served as secure points in the path linking europe and america by the atlantic sea), that were broken, leaving North America "isolated" -trading routes and maritime traffic recovered in 1600s-1700s.

Some alternative historicians and researchers talks really America repopulation was in fact in 1700s, as the ships, maritime skills and other factors evolved and enhanced.

We have here two options (Tatar in the "wild west"), or climate problems to explain how US West coast was not populated till 1800s.I think on both possibilities indeed.

I don't discard as well that America's maritime links were broken in north atlantic and north pacific, which explains late bering strait discovering (ice melted), and climate changes. So north america was really disconnected some centuries (Bering it comes to me related to northlands' sailors -Barangians/Varangians).


Turning back to Oere Linda book.
https://aldfryas.blogspot.com/2020/
​
There's another link, that Holland (Netherlands), was formed originally due to those floods (maybe after then it has been reformed or modified). It's curious to relate this, Friesland Island (Freeze), Frisians and Holland.




> It has written how the Lindaoorden and Liudgaarden were destroyed. Lindahem is still lost, the Lindaoorden partially, and the north Lindgaarden are still concealed by the salt sea. The foaming  sea washes the ramparts of the castle. As it has been mentioned, the people, being deprived of their harbour, went away and built houses inside the ramparts of the citadel; therefore that bastion is called Lindwerd. The sea-people say Linwerd is nonsense.
> 
> The name "Leeuwarden" (or old spelling variants) first came into use for Nijehove, the most important one of the three villages that later merged into one, in the early 9th century (Villa Lintarwrde' c. 825)



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeuwarden
Linden-Oorden (Order)
https://en.bab.la/dictionary/english-german/limehttps://en.bab.la/dictionary/german-english/lindehttps://en.bab.la/dictionary/german-english/linden

I think these sort of mixing probably provoked some problems as taking the north atlantic sea and frisons catastrophe being set into the cathegory of biblical flood, would let them to get an special consideration as "choosen people". So maybe the things came into a crash with church powers (who they really decided WHICH history, and WHO have privileges, and WHO writes the history). So real facts a bit distorted and a point (as usual) being set back in time to a legitimization focus.

By the way did you notice Faroese and Frisians, consonant frame (FRS), it's coincidental
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forsetihttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rulers_of_Frisiahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Frisian
Maybe going back really to old, old times could we here put in Pharisees?

​
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westeremden_yew-stick
"SURVIVORS"


> "luck (amluþ) stays (gibada) at home (op hæmu); and (ok) at the yew (iwi) may it grow (ale) on the hill (up duna); Wimœd has (æh) this (þusa)."



And taking this question of FREEZE and FRISIANS let me remind you, which story is behind on ICELAND (in some maps is simply ISLAND -the isle-), when "island" turned to be called "iceland"?.
And how that fits in a volcanic isle (hot water and microclimate) compared to a "GREEN" isle (Greenland) that is not green anymore. Can you see simply analysing words how the fairy tale of official his-tory gets down like castles in the air?.


​

You see it's very easy to play along with this, as in english and latin languages coincides Isle (Isla) Islanda, but it changed to Iceland.

I guess as alaska ice plate were moving to Greenland (provoking Greenland depopulation), changes in sea current streams by some time Island were in problems too, but around 1400s-1500s (through several volcanic eruptions), the isle got a better and hotter weather climate. In fact was the first destination from people coming from Greenland.

But you see a "GREEN" land iced. And an "ICE" land changed to be a better home.





https://sacred-texts.com/atl/olb/index.htm

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diBtSrgD85I_



_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK6syrYezLQ_​


I don't know if the manuscript is really a forgery, but it seems to me as I told before a little piece that it fits very finely with other puzzle's pieces.

​


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## WorldWar1812 (Dec 25, 2020)

Heyy !!. Merry Xmas Everybody !!!.

Oera Linda Book (some read this as Over the Linden) was delivered by Cornelius Over de Linden in 1867 a ship master carpenter in Helder (Netherlands), to the Leeuwarden library the manuscript to be copied. This manuscript comes to around 1256 and allegedly it's a copy of an older one (803 AC).

The story is suspicious, but being real or not, the book it's really very interesting, and I guess is a sort of compilation of other older stories.

https://frya.angelfire.com/Oera_Linda_Book.pdf
Oere Linda talks about an ancient deluge several millenia ago, and bring to us the idea of Atlantis. Friesland Island should be obviously closer to us, as it appears in some maps till 1400s-1500s.

It's very curious some maps showing both sides of America encircled by the Atlantic Ocean (Sanson Map 1694)


​
This has to me 2 explanations:

-Atlantis myth, has a real facts base and is located in or around America (from the western europeans classical culture).

-Atlantis myth, it's global and we focus this under the modern western civilization perspective.  Chinese for instance could talk about south pacific sunk islands of Lemuria (Mu'ur, Moorish people, sea people).  -Maorie, Mauri, Mauritania, etc, etc-.

Anyway as I explained on this thread
https://stolenhistory.net/threads/origins-of-the-name-of-america.983/(America as Meru, Amaruca or "MARY" land). There are some other persons thinking in fact AMERICA it's not the "new world" on the contrary the oldest one.

https://www.americaistheoldworld.com
Very soon the controversial affair took some people to sentence it was a forgery. As a prefabricated thing related to legitimization over north atlantic routes. The same question along this "phantom" island Frisia. As you see the link between both questions is evident (Oera Linda Book and Frisland Island).

​


> http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/20...an-italian-fabrication-in-the-north-atlantic/
> 62 – Frisland, an Italian Fabrication in the North Atlantic
> 
> The discovery of America was an Italian enterprise, but not to the credit of a Genoan named Columbus. In the 14th century, Venetian brothers Nicolo and Antonio Zeno sailed west on the Northern Atlantic, discovering places they called Frisland and Icaria (two islands near Greenland), Estotiland (on the North American mainland) and Drogio (an island close to the mainland, possibly Nova Scotia).
> ...



They came by the sea
  ​
But there's a very interesting thing considering Friesland Island as a fake history. How could several centuries ago map makers know about submarine floor?. No. They couldn't.

 ​
It's the same "echoe" like Doggerland.

​



All these north-atlantic small islands served as checkpoints or secure points in the atlantic path. We know that drakkars were really the F1 of the seas. On good sailing conditions you could get from norway's coasts to Greenland's coasts in around 1 month.

​
The problem with Friesland is sometimes is shown closer to greenland and sometimes more in the east closer to Ireland.




Ortelius 1570:


Coronelli 1592:
​


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## Oracle (Dec 26, 2020)

Really glad someone strarted a thread on this

I've been meaning to reread it so as I could do one and compare it to old maps.Thank you for taking the time ( which I currently don't have), and thanks for all the links .

Commenting so as I can download to read and come back to participate. ?


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## Safranek (Dec 30, 2020)

Here's a video describing some of the content of Oera Linda as it relates to resets/deluges.

*Oera Linde Manuscript: The Forbidden Record*


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyhQN1_zmPw_


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## matematik (Jan 2, 2021)

I recall reading that it's written very consistently and authentically in a dialect of Old Frisian, so if it's fake the author would have to have been an expert in Frisian/Germanic linguistics in addition to having an expert knowledge of history, mythology, etc.

I guess it's not impossible it's fake, but it seems far more plausible that it's real. If it's a recent fake as is usually claimed by academia, the author would have had to be some sort of genius, but it raises the question why would someone bother? As a joke?


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## Safranek (Jan 3, 2021)

I read the book a few years back and did considerable research at the time to determine it's authenticity.  I do recall that based upon that research, I pretty well concluded that its most likely that its what its claimed to be, original writing by people with a clear and distinct purpose of passing on a people's history.  

Unfortunately, when I read it, I didn't know much of what I now know, so I didn't put the appropriate effort into correlating it with any revisionist historical hypotheses.


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## Oracle (Jan 8, 2021)

Nice. I have never heard of the Pheonix reset. I have some quick research to do before I go to sleep it seems.
Edit: Looks like he's the only one using that terminology. Only relevance in a search was his site. Thanks for his link though,lots of interesting topics.
I wish he had a website with articles, he talks so fast the information is hard to absorb.
I turned him to .75 speed and I was able to finish a second video.



> Unfortunately, when I read it, I didn't know much of what I now know, so I didn't put the appropriate effort into correlating it with any revisionist historical hypotheses.



Yeah me too.Must make some time to reread it and do some more research.I keep getting distracted with other things at the moment.



matematik said:


> I recall reading that it's written very consistently and authentically in a dialect of Old Frisian, so if it's fake the author would have to have been an expert in Frisian/Germanic linguistics in addition to having an expert knowledge of history, mythology, etc.
> 
> I guess it's not impossible it's fake, but it seems far more plausible that it's real. If it's a recent fake as is usually claimed by academia, the author would have had to be some sort of genius, but it raises the question why would someone bother? As a joke?



I conversed with old dutch specialist user @MgvdT a bit about it last year. If I recall after examining some of it from a link I sent him, he felt it could well be authentic.
He might be worth talking to about it,or hopefully join in here about it now I have paged him.


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## Safranek (Jan 8, 2021)

Oracle said:


> I wish he had a website with articles



www.archaix.com


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## MgvdT (Feb 3, 2021)

Hi everyone, thank you for tagging me.

Let me start with some points of interest about the book:


It was discovered in time of a small crisis in the Netherlands, lots of local quarrels etc. The timing was very well for the Frisians, to say the least. (for me, it's much like Genhis Kahn's story)
The original pre-translated version is appearently in a safe at the Tresoar and not accessible. Except for the 3 foto's (also posted above in this thread). Only the translated version (in many languages) is available.
The way it is translated is very interesting. And very modern for the time. At the very least words and terms are added from the 19th century. From the original photo's I can't understand a word, and how they translated it is beyond me. It's certainly not written in runes anyone I know can make sense of.

However, I hope no one will be too blinded by my opinion alone. And last but least, van der Linden himself.




_''Vanwege zijn voorliefde voor de vrymetselaren, liet hij zich fotograferen, met een passer.''_​​_''Because of his love for the freemasons, he let himself be photographed, with a pair of compasses.''_​
Have a great day, M


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## Oracle (Feb 3, 2021)

Thank you for responding! So we can assume by that it is a  freemason agenda. ?
So have you any thoughts why they would bother to go to all that trouble,what could be the point of the exercise? Just another spoonful of confusion into the mix of human history distortion soup?
I understand you saying to take it as your opinion but your opinion holds weight. Sigh.
I really do appreciate your looking into this.


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## MgvdT (Feb 3, 2021)

All I can do is speculate ofcourse, but my guess is would be the confussion.

I was reading 'a corte cronike' the other day, from 1536. Interestingly, it also mentions (not as elaborate as the Oeral Linda) the same names as founders (Bruno, Saro, Fryso) and India as their origin. Of course it also refers to an older cronicle as it's source, which is lost to time.




**Here starts a story, from the origin of the Frisians and their freedom, collected from many lovely cronicles and histories.

After the birth and the sending to heaven from our lord, Jesu Christi, as men finds in the holy scriptures by Thomas the apostel, whom converted the lands of India. There was an there Island named Frysa. As also the old cronicles tell us.
In the land Frysa, lived 3 brothers, one named Saro the other named Fryso, and the third named Bruno. These 3 brothers where driven out of Frysia with all their companions, and build ships and went to sea.**

Forgive the translation. There is a few centuries  between the way of communicating via paper. I'd always imagine _parts _of _some _stories are true, but how further back you go (with history, as it was told to me) the best odds would be 8% accurate and 92% assumptions.

M


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## Oracle (Feb 5, 2021)

The three brothers similar reference is very interesting indeed. Also I just noticed from one of the maps in the op that it is placed exactly where ancient irish oral history places Tir na nOg the mythical Island of the Tuath de Danann. It was supposedly visible occasionally from the west coast of Ireland.


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## MgvdT (Feb 5, 2021)

Oracle said:


> The three brothers similar reference is very interesting indeed. Also I just noticed from one of the maps in the op that it is placed exactly where ancient irish oral history places Tir na nOg the mythical Island of the Tuath de Danann. It was supposedly visible occasionally from the west coast of Ireland.



Sharply spotted! It also mentions one of the brothers went to Albion to kill the giants there. The conversation is slowly starting here. It has some very interesting points, from both sides of the argument. Basicly put, the Tresoar has some very dodgy arguments presented as the truth (Red flag 1. We Dutch assume a lot and know very little. Always look for sources. These guys have pretty bad sources.)

However, I have yet to find a Frisian who has read and it and who believes the whole thing.

Could be this van der Linden just added a whole lot of information. Both sides of the coin do agree on the second part of the book being hastly written. When I have a better view and a more solid, complete story, I will share it here.

Have a great day, M


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## Oracle (Feb 5, 2021)

I just committed myself today to a very busy day tomorrow, otherwise I would spend it reading OLB to refresh and be ready for the discussion!
It will be top of my list to read as soon as I can. I am looking forward to hearing the results of your research very much.
Your skepticism combined with an open mind is very refreshing, a true researcher haha.


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## wayne osbjorn (Jul 14, 2021)

Oracle said:


> Nice. I have never heard of the Pheonix reset.



after reading  the archaix facebook  posts and watching  a few youtube videos  : its pretty obvious  that  the  "pheonix event" are asteroid/meteor impacts. But they are a flat earth/simulation  society  so they can't  have that


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## Safranek (Jul 14, 2021)

wayne osbjorn said:


> after reading  the archaix facebook  posts and watching  a few youtube videos  : its pretty obvious  that  the  "pheonix event" are asteroid/meteor impacts. But they are a flat earth/simulation  society  so they can't  have that



Not necessarily, if you consider the possible validity of this Russian video in this post:

Flat Earth


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## Oracle (Jul 29, 2021)

I've seen that video, certainly an interesting concept.


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## Mortal (Oct 29, 2021)

Are there any messages/values in the Oera Linda book that we can learn from? All I read is about the history, the fraud, the bs on wikipedia and so on.

One example from the Oera Linda book: usury is forbidden.

Thought about the book and what it tells. Had religious teachings in the past but the stories always 'felt' (I'm a man) fabricated.

After reading some information about the contents of the Oera Linda book I thought of this workflow:

*Grass in a field -> cow -> eats grass -> produces milk -> farmer -> truck -> store -> bought -> parents -> drink -> sperm/egg -> 9 months later you/me*

Apply that to the creation of the Earth or the cosmos. I can't deny that it came from somewhere. Right? So I understand/believe that there is something that created all but I'm too simple to capture the whole picture and will never know the source of all matter around me. Fine, really, it's fine (now).
The Oera Linda book gave the creator of all a name: Wralda or Wr.alda. Wr=Ur which is ancient. Alda means Elder which is old one.

Well, I'm changing my live, well, our live as I'm married, according to the values in the Oera Linda book. To name a view:
Righteous moral values
Help all creatures around me
Be good, do good, meet good.

Always did that but now see that as a foundation. And I look at other people according to these values.

Still changing life, get rid of all the nonsense around me, deleted facebook, twitter, said goodbye to some *cough* friends and the experience is that all is less cluttering now. Now to go out and meet some sane people.

Firm handshake!


Mortal said:


> Still changing life


About that text the following experiences:

1) My mother has a neighbor, an older nurse (which doesn't matter, just to give some description about the person) with terminal cancer. I like to bake bread so one day decided to bake some extra breads, go to the woman's house, ring and give the breads.
"How much for the breads?" she asked.
"Nothing, just wanted to give you something, enjoy!", turned around and went home.
Later heard from my mother that she was very happy that a 'stranger' thought of her, gave something without asking/accepting something back. Gave her strength, gave her hope and it made her happy. 

2) My wife recently visited an old lonely lady without relatives in her 90's. She said "I see nobody for days, I don't talk for days to anyone.". So my wife sat down, tea was made and just half an hour human contact. Priceless. Right?

Take care of each other, take care of your folk around you. Take care of your nation. There are many lonely people in elderly homes. Why not make some time (once a month?), take an elder for a walk and just talk.

All because of the Oera Linda book? I was like that from birth ('taught'/learned by the actions of my parents as they sent many food packages in the 80's to Poland while they were struggling themselves (financially)) but after reading the Oera Linda book and it hit home, I decided to project the contents of the book to the fundament of my life. So revisited the morals in my grey mass in the attic.

Why I post this: to get some morals back in society. Heavily censored on youtube so decided to spill my thoughts here.


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## Mortal (Nov 1, 2021)

Hope that this thread about the *content* and the *values* of the OLB gets some attention.

Firm handshake and remember, assumptions are the cause of most ...


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## JanOtt (Nov 25, 2021)

As @dreamtime suggested in the intro/welcome thread, it may be good to start a new Oera Linda thread altogether as this one is somewhat scattered. I lack time for that at the moment, but felt compelled to at least reply to this post of @MgvdT :



MgvdT said:


> 1) It was discovered in time of a small crisis in the Netherlands, lots of local quarrels etc. The timing was very well for the Frisians, to say the least.



Dutch history is full of internal conflicts and quarrels. If it had been meant to promote Frisian nationalism, it would have more fitted in the then popular ideas among nationalist Frisians, but much of the content was very different. Friso was not really a hero and the narrative does not end well. (It ends mid-sentence). In a blog post I have explained why the most scholarly hoax theory is not plausible.



MgvdT said:


> 2) The original pre-translated version is appearently in a safe at the Tresoar and not accessible. Except for the 3 foto's (also posted above in this thread). Only the translated version (in many languages) is available.



If "pre-translated version" refers to the manuscript; most of it is indeed kept in the Tresoar archives, and one part is on display in the Frisian Museum (Leeuwarden). Digital scans of the whole document have been available online since ca. 2005. I have created a PDF in which the (facsimile) manuscript is provided with line numbers and an introduction, accessible on archive.org as linked from my website (tab 'links'). A PDF with my transliteration (also made in 2016), provided with the same line numbers, is also available there.



MgvdT said:


> 3) The way it is translated is very interesting. And very modern for the time. At the very least words and terms are added from the 19th century. From the original photo's I can't understand a word, and how they translated it is beyond me. It's certainly not written in runes anyone I know can make sense of.



What words and terms from the 19th century? No one has ever been able to give me one good example of this. It is not that hard to make sense of the script and learn to read some it. This blogpost about the language allegedly being too modern may be of interest.



MgvdT said:


> And last but least, van der Linden himself. [...] ''Because of his love for the freemasons, he let himself be photographed, with a pair of compasses''



Over de (not 'van der') Linden was royal navy shipyard superintendent and ship builder. Two of his models are in the Rijksmuseum (here and here). A pair of compasses (drawing tool) is a normal tool for a ship builder. Some of his diary entries suggest a fascination for Freemason like groups, but it is unlikely that he was member of such group. The compasses may also be a reference to the (6 spoke) wheels in the Oera Linda book.


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## MgvdT (Nov 28, 2021)

Thank you for your post @JanOtt. I think I can safely say we are all hoping to see you make a thread regarding the OLB one day.

I would like to add some of the ''debunking evidence''. Not only for the missing details/assumptions at best, but also as a reminder to how any story can get labelled without allowing new evidence to change our way of thought.

Below is the response from Ottema to the arguments made against the OLB. I hope people find this useful.

---​
Ottema:
Now Mr. F. Muller and P. Smidt van Gelder, in Amsterdam, have examined the paper of the Manuscript as it is called, and claim in the Nederlandsche Spectator no. 32 From the 5 of August 1876, that the paper was made in this century and in the last 25 years, that the machined paper is vergé and comes from the factory of the Gentlemen Tielens and Schrammen in Maastricht.

Muller:
The paper in the 13th century was entirely made of cotton, thick, uneven, woolly, with very uneven unclear water lines,—this paper is thin, even, hard, translucent here and there, with regular clear water lines.

Ottema
The cotton paper from the 13th and earlier centuries [VII] had to be deliberately prepared by polishing before one could write on it. The Arabs and Goths did this in the same way that the Egyptians made their paper and the Romans shined the finer parchment varieties, namely through strong friction with the tusk of a wild boar, apri dente levigatur (Pliny). To an equal end, the bookbinders use an agate. Due to the strong friction, the paper fibers were pressed together more densely and therefore the paper smooth and smooth and slightly thinner than it was.

Muller:
The paper is traditionally thinner in the middle between the water lines until about 1800 than close to the water lines on either side,—this paper is even with the water lines, just as it is only the paper of this century.

Ottema:
I note that this expression traditionally does not go beyond the middle of the 14th century, when linen paper replaced cotton paper [VIII] and paper-making has already spread more and more across Europe. That comparison therefore does not relate to the cotton paper of the 13th century, and leads to no inference against the paper of the Manuscript, namely that it would be of the present. It distinguishes itself from today's paper in four very important points here.

Point 1: The width of the horizontal water lines. Because in a distance of 33 millimeters one counts 16 horizontal water lines, so that the width of each line is in full 2 m.M. The machine paper shall indicate such lines at that distance of 17 to 18, or for each line a width not exceeding 1.85 m.M. Heavy English stationery shall have 20 lines at that distance, each of which shall be 1.65 m.M.
Point 2: *The absence of chlorine*. A test, taken in my presence by the late Mr. A. P. H. Kuipers, has shown that the paper does not react in the least to silver and therefore contains absolutely no chlorine. While in this century no paper is produced or it has been treated with chlorine and leaves a white deposit on silver in the same test.
Point 3: *The absence of starch, amylum*. The test with a solution of iodium, which gives a pure and clear violet colour on machine paper, has no effect on this paper and leaves the brown colour of the iodium unchanged, at least no more than is observed in any substance made from pure plant fibres[IX], because in all plants fibrous matter there is some amylum as a natural component. This paper is therefore manufactured without the addition of starch and therefore not in the present century.*
Point 4: With regard to these waterlines, there is still a big difference between machine paper and that of the Manuscript. In the first, the lines of the yellowing are externally visible and immediately catch the eye. In the latter, the water lines are almost invisible from the outside, so much so that Dr. E. Refers in a letter, d.d. Leiden 1 Dec. 1870, (i.e. after the Manuscript had been in his hands for three years,) addressed to me, wrote: ''Furthermore the paper, which for the form and for the material looks suspicious to me. Apparently the paper that has hung in the smoke is the one who has hung.—If one tears the leaves, it appears much whiter on the crack. A watermark is nowhere to be found, and I've never seen medieval paper without a watermark and can't even think of it."

Ottema notes:
So Dr. Verwijs hasn't seen the waterlines in all that time, even when he was looking for a watermark. This would not have been possible if he had had machine paper in front of him.

Verwijs:
This paper is colored yellow and not naturally yellow, as many places prove.

Ottema:
If the paper was coloured, i.e. painted, then the dye must have penetrated into the paper, but this is not the case. On the fracture one can clearly see that of [X]within the fiber is white. The dirty yellowish-black color of the paper is only the result of time, and the effect of age over the course of more than six centuries. The fact that the paper is still so well preserved and has not suffered, especially from moisture or moth, is proof of the careful preservation of the book by the family, as if it was holy''

Verwijs:
This paper is cut off, immediately visible; the paper of the 13th century cannot be cut off or cut off without leaving fibres behind.

Ottema:
The latter may be true in some respects with unpolished paper, but proves nothing compared to polished and therefore densely pressed paper, and in all cases depends on the greater or lesser sharpness of knife or scissors.

Verwijs:
The cutting reminds me of machine paper, into which the perpendicular water lines (pontuseaux) can be inducted, but it is unknown to me whether there can be the horizontal lines of paper windows in it; if so, then I keep this for good machine paper, which therefore cannot be older than 25 or 30 years, in the past one could not make those lines in machine paper.

Ottema:
I have before me an authentic statement from Lords E. van Berk, P. Uurbanus, A. J. Leijer and T. Mooy aan den Helder living, in which they assure that between the years 1848 and 50 they were known [XI]the existence of the manuscript belonging to the family about the Linden, which was later published under the title of Thet Oera Linda Bok. This statement is included in its entirety in the Heldersche Courant from the 12 of March 1876.

Muller:
This paper has been sewn into a book, according to the holes; it's way too hard around those holes to be old; also the way of finishing is completely modern and completely different from old manuscripts; fewer holes and thicker rope or parchment were used than might have been used for this.

Ottema:
If Mr. Muller had seen the whole of H. S., he would have noticed that the back of the sections (or rather sexterns) nowhere shows a trace of glue or other adhesives. This proves that it was not sewn in [XII] in any modern way, neither on strings, nor on strips of parchment, nor on strips, but on the contrary in a very simple and primitive way, by immediate attachment with needle and thread in a parchment cover, as one still finds in the trade with small booklets, so to speak loosely hung together, as almanacs and the like.

Muller:
The writing is far too new for a high age; the ink is on the paper; has not affected the paper, which is necessary at high age of the ink. The ink is much too black for high age, which was lighter in the old days and became completely brown after a long time.

Ottema:
As a counter argument I present the words from Wattenbach, das Schriftwesen im Mittelalter (Leipzig 1871)
''In alten Handschriften ist die Dinte schwarz oder bräunlich, immer von ausgezeichnet guter Beschaffenheit. Nachdem aber von 13 Jahrhundert an immer massenhafter geschrieben wird, erscheint die Dinte häufig grau oder gelblich, und ist zuweilen ganz verblasst.”
»Als Bestandtheile des atramentum librarium giebt Plinius [XIII]Russ und Gummi an. Marcianus Capella erwähnt zuerst die Galläpfel: gallarum gummeosque commixtio.
»Eine Mischung von Kupfervitriol und Galläpfeln soll am häufigsten sein.”

English
''In old manuscripts, the dinte is black or brownish, always of excellent good quality. But since the 13th century onwards, writing became more and more massive, the Dinte often appears grey or yellowish, and is sometimes completely faded." "Pliny [XIII] lists soot and rubber as the members of the atramentum librarium. Marcianus Capella first mentions the gall apples: gallarum gummeosque commixtio." "A mixture of copper vitriol and gall apples is said to be the most common."

Ottema:
From which components the ink, with which the Oeral Linda is written, can be prepared, is unknown to me; but I attach great importance to Wattenbach's testimony for the good quality of ink up to the 13th century, as proof of the provenance of Oeral Linda  from the 13th century.

And as a bonus:
''With regard to that lettering, I must finally point out a very characteristic peculiarity: The alphabet does *not yet have q and z.* The connections *qu, sc, sch and c* at the beginning of a word are not yet known, proving that these writings are from the pre-Roman period.''

And as a personal note: the arguments presented by Ottema, as well as the modern research papers on the OLB are still kept from the public, my opinion on the OLB has completely changed. This book deserves more attention.

*present century in time of writing, 1876
All of these arguments are from the following link: Thet Oera Linda Bok

Thank you for reading, M


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## Zechariah_Murphy (Jan 4, 2022)

Here is something from my blog on the subject of evidence

In the chapter titled:

"This is inscribed on the Waraburgt by the Aldegamude"​It gives the historical account of a group who came out of the east who were named Finns around 4100 years ago. Two studies show that Finns (proto-Finns) come from the east around Asia and they arrived around 4000 years ago.


This study shows a direct link to the Mongolian population. “This distinctive pattern has suggested to some that the genetic composition of the Saami population arose from extensive admixture between Caucasoid and Mongoloid populations. Estimates of the relative contribution of each have varied from an equal input to ∼80% Caucasoid and 20% Mongoloid genes.” Guglielmino CR, Piazza A, Menozzi P, Cavalli-Sforza LL (1990) Uralic genes in Europe. Am J Phys Anthropol 83:57–68 Cavalli-Sforza LL, Menozzi P, Piazza A (1994) The history and geography of human genes. Princeton University Press, Princeton. (Ref 1)
This study shows that the Sami arrived around 4000 years ago. “These estimates are consistent with archeological data that suggest that the first settlers were Uralic speakers who arrived ∼4,000 years ago” I Fodor, A Czeizel The origins of the Hungarian population A Czeizel, H Benkmann, H Goedde (Eds.), Genetics of the Hungarian population, Springer-Verlag, Berlin (1991) (Ref 2) Dual Origins of Finns Revealed by Y Chromosome Haplotype Variation
“One of the oldest living cultures in Norway, and possibly the world is that of the Sami people, who have been surviving in the barren landscapes of Sami Land (the area commonly known as Lapland) for thousands of years, some findings suggest as long as 4,000 years.” (Ref 1)
“Finns have more in common with, for example, the Dutch or Russians living in the area of Murom, to the east of Moscow, than with their linguistic relations, the Hungarians;” Finns, genes and languages - Languages Of The World
1. They settled in the northern regions of Scandinavia.


In this chapter it gives an account about how the Finns took the upper regions of Scandinavia and how they were pushed by another group. We can see how this works geographically on this map used to demonstrate how the Finns had to go up North before they could get to Scandinavia or modern day Norway and Sweden. Even today the descendants of these people known as the Sami still live in the artic region. I want to point out that the Sami aren’t the original group genetically due to miscegenation with the Vikings. Today they are just carriers of what is left of the genetics of the original Finns. According to Ref 1 genetic study they are 80% Caucasian and 20% Mongoloid showing the majority of the original genetics of them has been wiped out.
​
2. Their ruling class was a priest class known as the Magyars with the ruling king as the high priest known as the Magi.
3. The Finn’s had stone weapons while the Magyar had copper.

4. They believed spirits were in every object like rocks.

5. The Finn’s we’re slaves to the Magyars and they Magyars cured them from evil spirits.

6. 80 years later in 2012 BCE they invaded.

7. A defense was made three hours from Godas Citadel (Gothenburg).

The invasion of the Magyars and their slaves is backed up genetic evidence. It says they occupied the upper regions of the land. Today we know the Sami still occupy the upper regions of the land by the Arctic Circle.

The findings show that they started out in our region around 4000 years ago. The genetic evidence shows that the Finn’s and the Sami were indeed from the same genetic group.



> “The new theory, using mitochondrial DNA testing, states that the Finns did not arrive in Samiland only a short 3,000 years ago but rather came out of the Sami themselves. When adding genetic evidence to the Baltic-Finnish and the Sami language relationship, it appears that the two groups did descend from one single genetic and linguistic population, with the Finns diverging because of Baltic and Germanic agricultural influences;” (Ref 2)



This also shows they share the same linguistic origin as well. In verse 3 it says they were driven to the upper regions by another group. Because of the drastic climate change most Fryans didn’t occupy the upper regions. It also says the Finn’s we’re ruled over by a oppressive priest class known as the Magyars.



> “Finns have more in common with, for example, the Dutch or Russians living in the area of Murom, to the east of Moscow, than with their linguistic relations, the Hungarians;”



What this shows is the Sami were the original Finns referred to in the OLB. Due to mixing in with Aryans you have a modern day Finnish population that is distinct from the Sami of today and yesterday. Genetically they most resemble Aryans due to mixing into a bigger genepool around 3000 years ago note (figure 1). This means to me the Finnish are Aryan. While the Sami are not.


_Figure 1_​
References:

Where Do Finn’s Come From?WHERE DO FINNS COME FROM
The Origin and Genetic Background of the SÃ¡mi Origin and Genetic Background of the Sámi


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## Zechariah_Murphy (Jan 5, 2022)

MgvdT said:


> Ottema:
> If the paper was coloured, i.e. painted, then the dye must have penetrated into the paper, but this is not the case. On the fracture one can clearly see that of [X]within the fiber is white. The dirty yellowish-black color of the paper is only the result of time, and the effect of age over the course of more than six centuries. The fact that the paper is still so well preserved and has not suffered, especially from moisture or moth, is proof of the careful preservation of the book by the family, as if it was holy''


The study Jensma did on the paper shows this as well. In the study he saw that the yellowing of the paper was only on the surface. He tries to say this proves the hoax though. But it makes no sense due to the absorption rate of the paper. It is almost like he tried to take Ottema's argument and twist it. Very slimy fellow I would say.


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## ViniB (Jan 7, 2022)

Zechariah_Murphy said:


> Here is something from my blog on the subject of evidence
> 
> In the chapter titled:
> 
> ...


So if i understand correctly, they somehow extracted mytochondrial DNA from bones buried supposed 4k years? I'd like to see a practical test where soft tissue can last that long


MgvdT said:


> Hi everyone, thank you for tagging me.
> 
> Let me start with some points of interest about the book:
> 
> ...


My God! I would add a 4 point to raise, where are the primary sources of this information?? Did any survived, or are we dealing with the forever problem of only copies/translations found in a basement/hidden library?? The freemason connection is a big red flag indeed.......
Edit: a quick comparisson between the stories of the bible and the oera linda are almost copies of each other, be it by the creation of the world to prophets/son(s) of god(s)


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## Zechariah_Murphy (Jan 7, 2022)

ViniB said:


> So if i understand correctly, they somehow extracted mytochondrial DNA from bones buried supposed 4k years? I'd like to see a practical test where soft tissue can last that long
> 
> My God! I would add a 4 point to raise, where are the primary sources of this information?? Did any survived, or are we dealing with the forever problem of only copies/translations found in a basement/hidden library?? The freemason connection is a big red flag indeed.......
> Edit: a quick comparisson between the stories of the bible and the oera linda are almost copies of each other, be it by the creation of the world to prophets/son(s) of god(s)


The method in which they abstracted and who they compared the genes too is in the study.


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## ViniB (Jan 7, 2022)

Zechariah_Murphy said:


> The method in which they abstracted and who they compared the genes too is in the study.


You believe this book to be legit? These studies are pretty much confirmation bias that everything in the questionable book is legit. 
Let's consider the following, the book is from the 1200s/1300s and was only discovered by a german neo pagan in 1867, deemed original because it must be true (????) Oh and himmler was a big fan of it too


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## Zechariah_Murphy (Jan 7, 2022)

ViniB said:


> You believe this book to be legit? These studies are pretty much confirmation bias that everything in the questionable book is legit.
> Let's consider the following, the book is from the 1200s/1300s and was only discovered by a german neo pagan in 1867, deemed original because it must be true (????) Oh and himmler was a big fan of it too


Unless you have evidence that the book was made up by a neo pagan you shouldn't throw accusations. The book has historical claims and artifacts in it. If the book was fake why is the historical claims and artifacts found to exist and be accurate even though it goes against conventional history?
In the following chapter

*This was inscribed upon the walls of Fryasburg in Tex-land, as well as at Stavia and Medeasblik.*

It gives the Historical account of a people who reform civilization in Texland or today called Texel in the Netherlands after a major natural disaster in 2194 BCE. This people then went on to spread to all of Europe. If this is true you would see cultural artifacts being spread and you would see a massive change in the genetics of Europe from this one group.

*The Bell Beaker People*

In a genetic study entitled "The Beaker Phenomenon and the Genomic Transformation of Northwest Europe" it shows around 2200 BCE there was a massive shift in genome of Europe starting in the Netherlands (Ref 1). This transformation of Europe went along the Atlantic Iberia coast (Figure 1). You also have a massive shift in art and pottery. The name Bell Beaker People comes from the style bell beaker vases found at the various beaker complexes or Citadels as described in the Oera Linda Book (Figure 2, 3) (Ref 2). Before this study it was believed that the Beaker people wasn’t a people but a culture spread by trade. They believed the vases were spread by trade to other people and not a spread of people into these areas. This study destroys this false narrative because the genetics proves it was a spread of a people out of the Netherlands. This proves that the historical narrative of the OLB is authentic. The Bell Beaker complexes and vases were not discovered until the 1960s over 90 years after the OLB was discovered. Then over a 140 years after the book was translated and published the dna evidence proves the book true.



Figure 1: Showing the different harbors of the Atlantic Iberia

Figure 2: Bell Beaker Vessel

Figure 3: Woodhenge in _Goseck_ Germany discovered in 1991
Reference:


The Beaker Phenomenon and the Genomic Transformation of Northwest Europe – The Beaker Phenomenon and the Genomic Transformation of Northwest Europe
Prehistoric pop culture: Deciphering the DNA of the Bell Beaker Complex – Prehistoric pop culture: Deciphering the DNA of the Bell Beaker Complex - Current Archaeology


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## ViniB (Jan 7, 2022)

Zechariah_Murphy said:


> Unless you have evidence that the book was made up by a neo pagan you shouldn't throw accusations. The book has historical claims and artifacts in it. If the book was fake why is the historical claims and artifacts found to exist and be accurate even though it goes against conventional history?
> In the following chapter
> 
> *This was inscribed upon the walls of Fryasburg in Tex-land, as well as at Stavia and Medeasblik.*
> ...


Here we go again, circunstancial evidence (the vases and cidadela, discovered recently btw) trust us is science for the pretty questionable date of 2194BCE (lol)
The entire validity of the book is on the shoulders of pottery, citadels. The bell beaker complex was discovered only in the 19th century (oh our beloved archeologists and their 1800s finds to validate 3+k of forgotten history), the bones studied by Cambridge (red flag) were carbon dated (red flag) with no conclusive evidence, the genetic study is assumed to be correct even tough there's a high probability of contamination of samples. But somehow all if this questionable evidence, with questionable aDNA tests proves the book true '-' we're back to the confirmation bias......


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## Zechariah_Murphy (Jan 7, 2022)

ViniB said:


> Here we go again, circunstancial evidence (the vases and cidadela, discovered recently btw) trust us is science for the pretty questionable date of 2194BCE (lol)
> The entire validity of the book is on the shoulders of pottery, citadels. The bell beaker complex was discovered only in the 19th century (oh our beloved archeologists and their 1800s finds to validate 3+k of forgotten history), the bones studied by Cambridge (red flag) were carbon dated (red flag) with no conclusive evidence, the genetic study is assumed to be correct even tough there's a high probability of contamination of samples. But somehow all if this questionable evidence, with questionable aDNA tests proves the book true '-' we're back to the confirmation bias......


The genetics from the burial sites proves the spread from the netherlands. you also have a direct carbon dating from the bodies. so we know when they died. you keep using the words confirmation bias, I don't think you know what that means. we are dealing with dna testing which is the most accurate testing we have on these bodies of who they were and who are their descendants. what we do know is White people are their direct descendants. If you are going to sit there and say methodical testing is bias then do tell us what standard to you that isn't bias?


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## ViniB (Jan 7, 2022)

Zechariah_Murphy said:


> The genetics from the burial sites proves the spread from the netherlands. you also have a direct carbon dating from the bodies. so we know when they died. you keep using the words confirmation bias, I don't think you know what that means. we are dealing with dna testing which is the most accurate testing we have on these bodies of who they were and who are their descendants. what we do know is White people are their direct descendants. If you are going to sit there and say methodical testing is bias then do tell us what standard to you that isn't bias?


On the link you provided it's stated crystal clear that there are is a high chance of contamination of the samples collected! I'm not saying this, the link of the study is!! About carbon dating, many alternative researchers, Novosky & Fomenko, to name two, and even some circles of the mainstream are asking questions and proving that carbon dating is pretty questionable, not the bulletproof tool that the mainstream makes it up to be. The purpose of SH is to question everything, aDNA tests and carbon dating included


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## Zechariah_Murphy (Jan 7, 2022)

ViniB said:


> On the link you provided it's stated crystal clear that there are is a high chance of contamination of the samples collected! I'm not saying this, the link of the study is!! About carbon dating, many alternative researchers, Novosky & Fomenko, to name two, and even some circles of the mainstream are asking questions and proving that carbon dating is pretty questionable, not the bulletproof tool that the mainstream makes it up to be. The purpose of SH is to question everything, aDNA tests and carbon dating included


It said it didn't use samples that was contaminated. "We filtered out libraries with low coverage (<10,000 SNPs) or evidence of contamination (Methods) to obtain a final set of 166 individuals:". Carbon dating within a 7000 years isn't questionable.


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## ViniB (Jan 7, 2022)

Zechariah_Murphy said:


> It said it didn't use samples that was contaminated. "We filtered out libraries with low coverage (<10,000 SNPs) or evidence of contamination (Methods) to obtain a final set of 166 individuals:". Carbon dating within a 7000 years isn't questionable.


Ah awesome article about how bunk carbon dating is and how corrupt the field of archeology really is Meta-historical conspiracies: Part 3


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## Zechariah_Murphy (Jan 8, 2022)

ViniB said:


> Ah awesome article about how bunk carbon dating is and how corrupt the field of archeology really is Meta-historical conspiracies: Part 3


The dna evidence isn't carbon dating. look you have to get over it. abrahamism is a lie always has been.


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## ViniB (Jan 8, 2022)

Zechariah_Murphy said:


> The dna evidence isn't carbon dating. look you have to get over it. abrahamism is a lie always has been.


Well both abrahanism and the oeda are lies, i'm not religious btw


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## Zechariah_Murphy (Jan 10, 2022)

ViniB said:


> Well both abrahanism and the oeda are lies, i'm not religious btw


where is the lie in the Oera Linda book?


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## dreamtime (Jan 15, 2022)

JanOtt said:


> As @dreamtime suggested in the intro/welcome thread, it may be good to start a new Oera Linda thread altogether as this one is somewhat scattered.



What do you think about the lack of technology described in the tanscript? The society described seems to be advanced in lots of ways, but technically is very primitive. The Hinduist Vedas explicitly speak about high technology in our ancient past, and even the bible implies some.

In the Oera Linda you could get the impression of a society of primitive ship builders and shepherds.

In the context of technology, the transcript does not give credence to most theories discussed in the alternative history community.


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## Zechariah_Murphy (Jan 16, 2022)

dreamtime said:


> What do you think about the lack of technology described in the tanscript? The society described seems to be advanced in lots of ways, but technically is very primitive. The Hinduist Vedas explicitly speak about high technology in our ancient past, and even the bible implies some.
> 
> In the Oera Linda you could get the impression of a society of primitive ship builders and shepherds.
> 
> In the context of technology, the transcript does not give credence to most theories discussed in the alternative history community.


The book starts after the destruction of Atland. So any technology that would be consider advance by today's measure would be lost. The artifacts like artificial mound building, etc is in fact pretty high tech for an ancient civilization. The fact that the Oera Linda Book describes accurately a people who restarted civilization and their customs and beliefs to means the Oera linda book is the primary source and the Vedas are secondary at best since there is no evidence to suggest the vedas are accurate. even the Yuga writings are completely inaccurate. Now that we have the Calendar system completely deciphered we know the Yuga timeline is wrong. This bring into question how accurate the vedas really are.


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## dreamtime (Jan 16, 2022)

Zechariah_Murphy said:


> The book starts after the destruction of Atland. So any technology that would be consider advance by today's measure would be lost. The artifacts like artificial mound building, etc is in fact pretty high tech for an ancient civilization. The fact that the Oera Linda Book describes accurately a people who restarted civilization and their customs and beliefs to means the Oera linda book is the primary source and the Vedas are secondary at best since there is no evidence to suggest the vedas are accurate. even the Yuga writings are completely inaccurate. Now that we have the Calendar system completely deciphered we know the Yuga timeline is wrong. This bring into question how accurate the vedas really are.



Whats your thoughts on the tech described in this article series?

The Lost Key: Part 1

There is a discrepancy between this kind of tech and the stories of the Oera Linda.

The Yuga timeline is definitely wrong, but it was added by translators, the original sources do not talk about human years, it was interpreted.


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## Zechariah_Murphy (Jan 17, 2022)

dreamtime said:


> Whats your thoughts on the tech described in this article series?
> 
> The Lost Key: Part 1
> 
> ...


let me go through it


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## Zechariah_Murphy (Jan 31, 2022)

This was missed by Alewyn Raubenheimer but goes with his research.

The Tarim Basin mummy is evidence of the olb being accurate. In the account about life before the destruction of Atland it discusses how criminals were tattooed to be banished forever.

“Britannia was the land of the banished, who were ‘brit’ away with the help of their burg maiden to spare their lives. In order that they could never come back, however, a ‘B’ was tattooed on their foreheads first; murderers with blood-red dye and other criminals with blue dye.)”

This mummy in the Tarim Basin lived around 1000 bce and she has the same marking as described in the olb.

This mummy dna matches with the same Mtdna haplogroup as the bell beaker people. Mtdna H.

Proving the oera linda book true. The book says they restarted civilization in the netherlands. Her dna matches with the bell beaker people aka the Aryans.

So we know she is from Europe and we know that she was banished from Europe.

https://ott-oeralinda.blogspot.com/2019/02/048_5.html?m=1

Here is a reputable site where you can clearly see the tattoo. This pic should suffice to prove the other pic is an accurate pic and not photoshopped. You can make out the tattoo even though the lighting is bad.




NOVA Online | Mysterious Mummies of China | The Takla Makan Mummies


Here is more pictures of the mummies with the one in question
maximus101 - Мумии Китая. (archive.ph)


here is a link showing the mtdna of each sample taken. The mummy in question is the only one with Mtdna H sample M12. This dna result matches with the dna results of the Bell beaker People proving she isn't from the tarim basin but from Europe or Fryasland.

Analysis of ancient human mitochondrial DNA from the Xiaohe cemetery: insights into prehistoric population movements in the Tarim Basin, China

Here is the genetic study showing the Mtdna of the Bell Beaker People proving it matches the Mummy in question.
The Beaker Phenomenon and the Genomic Transformation of Northwest Europe -The Beaker Phenomenon and the Genomic Transformation of Northwest Europe


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