# Kailasa Temple



## JWW427 (Oct 13, 2020)

This astonishing megalithic complex and the Ellora Caves has always intrigued and baffled me.
Here we are told that over dozens of years it was built by several rulers with presumably thousands of stone carvers and labor.
I've seen large amounts of work done by large amounts of people, and its possible to accomplish big constructions.
However, carving this wonder of the world raises some questions.

Like Giza, Im wondering if they used sonic drills and tools? We have them today.
Did it really take many years, or was it done much quicker?

Im of the mind that most gods and goddesses are based on extraterrestrial worship, both of positive and negative beings, but highly religious people and mainstream academics scoff at this with extreme vehemence, and sometimes violence. Why is that?
By many accounts in the Vedas, ancient people and extraterrestrials lived, interacted, married, and engaged in trade, but this is full-on forbidden history to be discounted at all costs.

To me, this is a sacred place of worship, meditation, and consciousness-based technology.
The interior temple has many columns and an ceiling that evoke a sense of spiritual and intensified earth energy. (Telluric).
The stone is probably piezoelectric in nature.

There are countless ancient constructions in India that––mostly––defy mainstream explanation. I encourage forum members to expand this thread.






*ELEPHANT SYMBOLISM *
Elephants hold significant meaning in many cultures and symbols of these majestic creatures have been depicted in mythology and religion for thousands of years. There are many meanings and interpretations behind elephant symbols, which are particularly significant in Indian and Asian faiths, including Hinduism and Buddhism.

*Strength & Power:* In the most general, universal meaning, the elephant symbolizes strength and power. This meaning refers to both the body and the mind. The elephant is also seen as a sort of spirit guide to help us along a journey that requires patience.

*Wisdom & Loyalty:* Elephant symbolism also represents sensitivity, wisdom, stability, loyalty, intelligence, peace, reliability and determination, which are all seen in the animal's nature when observed in the wild. Elephants are gentle giants, who show great care toward their herd, offspring and elders. This symbolizes responsibility, determination and loyalty.

*In Indian culture, elephants are a symbol of mental strength, earthiness and responsibility.* Hindus have worshiped elephants for centuries, and the large animals enjoy tremendous popularity and a charismatic status in other parts of South Asia. In Hinduism, the elephant is a sacred animal and is considered the representation or the living incarnation of Ganesh, the elephant-headed deity riding a mouse and one of the most important gods.

Hindus revere elephants not only because of their depiction of their god but also because of unique characteristics that represent the attributes of a perfect disciple. Each part of the deity Ganesh represents a symbolic function. The large ears mean he is a patient listener who does not use his mouth for naught. His small eyes are believed to behold the future, recognize truth and see not from the physical but through the spirit. The long narrow trunk allows him to smell what is good and evil, while the big belly symbolizes its ability to digest all the good and evil in life.

In Indian mythology, white elephants are associated with rain and are identified with rain-bearing clouds. In Indian society, elephants are believed to bring good luck and prosperity. Ganesh is the god of success and the destroyer of obstacles and evils. He is also a part of the five major Hindu deities together with Vishnu, Shiva, Druga and Brahma.



https://mymodernmet.com/kailasa-temple-ellora-caves/
"Formed from a single block of excavated stone, *Kailasa temple* is considered one of the most impressive cave temples in India. The enormous structure is one of 34 cave temples and monasteries that are collectively known as the Ellora Caves. Located in the western region of Maharashtra, the caves are a UNESCO World Heritage Site and include monuments dating between 600 and 1000 CE. While there are many impressive structures on-site, it's the megalithic Kailasa temple that is perhaps the most well known.

Renowned both for its size and impressive ornamentation, it's not entirely clear who had Kailasa temple built. While there are no written records, scholars generally attribute it to Rachtrakuta king Krishna I, who ruled from about 756 to 773 CE. This attribution is based on several epigraphs that connect the temple to “Krishnaraja,” though nothing written directly about the ruler contains information about the temple.

While scholars have yet to discover its true origins, a medieval legend paints a romantic picture behind the mammoth temple. According to a story written in _Katha-Kalpataru_ by Krishna Yajnavalki, when a king was severely ill, his queen prayed to the god Shiva that her husband would be cured. In return for his health, the queen vowed to construct a temple in Shiva's name and fast until the shikhara, or peak, of the temple was completed.

The king quickly got better and construction began on the temple, but to the couple's horror, they realized it would take years for the shikhara to emerge. Luckily, a clever engineer came along and explained that by starting from the top of the mountain, he could make the temple's shikhara appear within a week. This was much to the relief of the queen, who could quickly finish her fast and thus, the temple was constructed from the top down.

Though this is a legend and not fact, the truth is that Kailasa was built from the top. This unusual decision called for 200,000 tons of volcanic rock to be excavated from the rock. Standing at about three stories tall, a horseshoe-shaped courtyard has a _gopuram_—tower—at its entrance. Given the vast space and the ornate decorations of the temple, it's believed that the work may have started with Krishna I, but could have carried on for centuries, with different rulers adding their own flair.

Enormous stone carvings depict different Hindu deities with particular attention to Shiva. As one walks past the gopuram, panels on the left have followers of Shiva, while panels on the left show devotees of Vishnu.  At the base of the temple, a herd of carved elements appears to carry the load of the temple on their backs. It's thanks to these masterful sculptures, as well as the incredible engineering of the temple, that Kailasa is considered an outstanding example of Indian art and architecture."


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## trismegistus (Oct 13, 2020)

> The shamir was the seventh of the ten marvels created in the evening twilight of the first Friday (Ab. v. 6; comp. Pes. 54a; Sifre, Deut. 355; Mek., Beshallaḥ, 5 [ed. Weiss, p. 59b; ed. Friedmann, p. 51a]), and it was followed, significantly enough, by the creation of writing, the stylus, and the two tables of stone. Its size was that of a grain of barley; it was created after the six days of creation. *Nothing was sufficiently hard to withstand it; when it was placed on stones they split in the manner in which the leaves of a book open; and iron was broken by its mere presence. *The shamir was wrapped for preservation in spongy balls of wool and laid in a leaden box filled with barley bran..





> According to one legend, an eagle brought the shamir from paradise to Solomon at the latter's command (Yalḳ. ii. 182), while another tradition runs as follows: *When Solomon asked the Rabbis how he could build the Temple without using tools of iron, they called his attention to the Shamir* with which Moses had engraved the names of the tribes on the breastplate of the high priest, and advised him to command the demons under his sway to obtain it for him.



Source




_The shamir as depicted within the Rosslyn Missal (an Irish manuscript dating from the late 13th or early 14th Century) __Source_

Immanuel Velikovsky speculates that the Shamir could have been some type of radioactive rock or substance capable of melting and cutting stone.

I think that perhaps whatever is being described in the Old Testament is either real knowledge, a real creature, or a real piece of technology capable of creating works like we see here in India.


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## Citezenship (Oct 13, 2020)

This place is a fantastic piece of architecture and is a bit of a mind boggler, the region has a bit of a rich history, the stone is supposed to be a very hard type of rock and it has been hypothesised the the building was there and the mountain came second(mud flood)!

https://www.google.com/search?q=the...69i57j69i64.7031j1j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
There are many very big forts in the area, in less than a minute i found this one,

	Post automatically merged: Oct 13, 2020

Won't let me upload pics at the mo, they will follow.


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## Forrest (Oct 14, 2020)

The rock is basalt, pretty hard but fractures with a steel chisel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kailasa_Temple,_Ellora*4 ft³ excavated per day*, per worker, that doesn't sound unreasonable.
claims it took 5.5 years to excavate with 250 workers.
4 ft³/day * 365 day/yr * 5.5 yr = 8030 ft³ per worker, assuming no holidays
8030 ft³/worker * 250 worker = *2,007,000 ft³* excavated

 Check:
"200,000 tons of volcanic rock" was excavated
Density of  Basalt, solid = 3.011 g/cm³ = 187.97 lb/ft³
200,000 ton * 2000 lb/ton = 400,000,000 lb
400.000,000 lb/(187.97 lb/ft³) = *2,128,000 ft³*

Pretty close. Add more workers for the skilled sculptors, who only come in after the cavities are roughed in.
A book of these temples, somewhat facile-
http://www.aarhat.com/eiirj/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/VOLUME-NO-VII-SPECIAL-ISSUES-II-B.pdf


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## Citezenship (Oct 14, 2020)

Forrest said:


> The rock is basalt, pretty hard but fractures with a steel chisel.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kailasa_Temple,_Ellora*4 ft³ excavated per day*, per worker, that doesn't sound unreasonable.
> claims it took 5.5 years to excavate with 250 workers.
> 4 ft³/day * 365 day/yr * 5.5 yr = 8030 ft³ per worker, assuming no holidays
> ...


I have had a quick look through that pdf and there is not much mention of tools and technique which is what i am interested in as they can be tested and verified.

Also if these people are the original decedents of the people who did this and still use the same tech and techniques why are they not still doing so today, i mean if you know how to do that to rock why the hell would you stop!


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## JWW427 (Oct 14, 2020)

It's not exactly in the vein of the "Stone of the Pregnant Woman" in Baalbek, but it's close.
Something very fishy is going on with all these "amazing" megalithic structures. India is full of them.
Hard work with skilled labor probably got the job done, but what is the temple really for? Is it a temple at all?


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## Forrest (Oct 14, 2020)

We can estimate the level of tech by comparing it to present day sculpting, by testing on similar material, and by looking at the amount of weathering.

*The basics-*
http://www.visual-arts-cork.com/sculpture/stone.htm"Stone comes in many different varieties, giving artists plenty of choice in respect of colour, quality and hardness. The hardest and most weatherproof stone is igneous rock, formed by the cooling of molten rock, such as granite, diorite and basalt...
   In general, the softer the stone, the easier it is to carve. According to the MOHS Scale of Mineral Hardness... Soapstone, with a MOHS hardness of about 2, is one of the easiest stones to work. Next, comes Alabaster, and softer kinds of serpentine, all with a MOHS value of about 3. Stones that have a value of 4 include Limestone and sandstone. Harder stone, with a MOHS value of 6, includes travertine, marble, and onyx, with granite and ultimately basalt (both 8) being the most durable but the most difficult to carve.

_Stone Carving Techniques_
The carving begins with the chiseling away of large chunks of redundant rock (a process known as "roughing out", "pitching", or "knocking off"), using a point chisel and a wedge-shaped pitching chisel, together with a masons driving hammer."

*Carving a hard basalt-*
https://www.smithjournal.com.au/blogs/arts/3161-how-to-make-a-giant-skull-from-basalt-pt-2"I thought I'd up the ante and pick a really hard stone: a local basalt. It’s almost impossible to work with. It's dense and glassy, very sharp and hard, so it's really difficult to shape it. It breaks all the tools! But because it’s so glassy, it can be polished and that’s why I picked it.

_How did you create this particular skull?_
Most of the time I do it freehand; usually I get a rock and start using my chisel, shaping, chipping away. But because this particular stone is quite dense and hard, it's tended to shatter the tips of my chisels so I used a mixture of chisels and grinders to take the excess off...
  There’s also a misconception that it's impossible, working with this material. But it's so actually so basic. We've been playing with rocks since our days in the cave. It's within us all, that's how I see it."

He used a particularly hard and glassy basalt for the skull, which appears to be harder than the temple material.

*Making a stone axe for basalt-*
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/pal...o-work-basalt-either-carving-or-k-t16398.html"pecking and grinding is a great way to carve basalt. Find a good, hard pecking stone, hold the rock you plan to carve loosely in your hand and start pecking."
"The marina at Overton has some killer knappable quartzite cobbles. You have to hit a few to find a good one. I bashed out a hand axe in about 3 minutes one day."

The tools needed are not high tech- adzes, pickaxes, axes, and chisels of either steel or stone. Modern sculptors use diamond wheels and such for speed and precision, but these aren't needed for for what we have here.

*The Basalt of the Kailasa Temple-*
Look at the surface finishes, the cracks and spalling, and the weathering:



The features of the circular base are heavily weathered, spalled, etc. This tells us that this particular basalt is not too durable. It's probably easier to work than the skull example above. The stone is "tough" Toughness - Infogalactic: the planetary knowledge core, enough, witness the legs of the lions that hold up the mass of their bodies, but that is different from "hard". The elephant tusks broke off, so they were past the limits of this material.

All in all, this is "advanced Stone Age" tech with little supporting industry required.


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## Citezenship (Oct 14, 2020)

Forrest said:


> This tells us that this particular basalt is not too durable.


Or maybe much older than we think, yes you can tap away for endless years and whittle almost ant substance down to something beautiful or until it is merely sand, but we are trying to point out the anomalies here, one for me is why these carved surfaces are so ornate but they did not have time to make the surrounding surface(what it was cut out of) mirror smooth, if there were enough time and man power.

The rock in that pic behind looks like it has been cut with something much heavier like what is seen at places like Valletta,


_View: https://youtu.be/_WJjdDnTreE_


It is so much like the mystery in petra, that the why is just as important as the how!


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## Forrest (Oct 15, 2020)

Citezenship said:


> Forrest said:
> 
> 
> > This tells us that this particular basalt is not too durable.
> ...



There is so very much malarky in this field, which obfuscates and misdirects. I tried to have an irl convo on this topic today- how the temple was built- it lasted for exactly one sentence before turning to alien interdimensoional chrome dome laserheads. And that's just for the topic of how to carve a rock. Why is that?

One example, at 
_View: https://youtu.be/_WJjdDnTreE?t=283_
 on the cited YT video, narrator say the marks are circular, but they are not. The marks are also surrounded by other tool marks that are much more linear, yet still have similar lengths, widths, depths, and cross-sections. All of the tool marks, quasi-circular or otherwise, are uneven, suggesting they were made with hand tools.

The rock face behind the temple does indeed have a roughed-out appearance, as would be expected as a first step. Maybe they were going to continue the work there. Maybe they left it like that as artistic contrast. None of it look like anything that stone tools could not accomplish. It looks like a natural result of the process of making this structure.

In contrast, the most mysterious feature of the Aswan quarry isn't the Unfinished Obelisk, it's the rounded corner of the quarry, quite even, several stories tall. That doesn't look like hand tools and it doesn't look like the natural result of a quarrying operation.


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## Citezenship (Oct 15, 2020)

Forrest said:


> In contrast, the most mysterious feature of the Aswan quarry isn't the Unfinished Obelisk, it's the rounded corner of the quarry, quite even, several stories tall. That doesn't look like hand tools and it doesn't look like the natural result of a quarrying operation


And this is what raises suspicion here, Logical conclusion is that it was cut from the rock(rock left in untidied state), they must have cut a channel around a piece of rock and the started chipping away at what was left in the center.

But yet the top of the cut rock does not look cut, as in the image below.


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## Forrest (Oct 15, 2020)

The ways in which this structure is deteriorating give us clues as to how and when it was constructed.
The primary erosion is by spalling, by pieces of it breaking away along fracture surfaces.
(Notice on the wall, lower right, are tool marks much like the "circular saw" marks in the Malta video above.)

============
*General Principles*

Sharp edge = new.
Round edge = old.

Skinny thing = weak.
Thick thing = strong.

Vandals are lazy. (Vandals usually start with faces and heads- defacing.)
Water never sleeps.
============

*Erosion Styles*
Example 1. The elephant tusks in pic below are 100% eroded/broken, the trunks are 50% gone, say, an erosion ratio of 2:1. The tusks were thin, cantilever members, the trunks are thicker, vertical members supported at both ends. The tusks were subject to much higher stresses due to this geometry.

Example 2. The backs and sides of the four lions (pic above) are in better condition than the base they walk on. This suggests that rainwater sheds off the lions and stands on the base, there to permeate into the rock along its fissures. One freezing night can suffice to shatter a rock that has water in its cracks.

Example 3. The spalling appears to be greatest along edges where water drips off, and less in protected niches. If it were due to vandals, we'd expect to see the dancers in the niches defaced.

Example 4. The size and shapes of the missing chunks of the 'temple base' that the elephants are holding up. The two at the right corner are quite large, maybe a ton or more each, and penetrate along 3D fracture surfaces. This is a clue as to the construction method.

Example 5. The edges of the damaged surfaces vary in their degree of sharpness. Some are therefore older than others, so the erosion has taken place over a period of time at some average rate.

If all this damage had happened during construction, they might have considered abandoning the project.
The fractures extend through the native rock in three-dimensional planes at all visible scales, but weren't comprehensive enough to wreck the project at the time of construction.





*Construction Methods*
This particular basalt unit is shot through with partial fractures. The workers took advantage of this during the rough-in. Large pieces can be encouraged to break out by working along these fractures with chisels and wedges. Then the sharp-edged pieces get recycled as new tools.

The rock is not uniform, so the stronger pieces of basalt were turned against the weaker. A newly-broken piece can become a chisel, a wedge, or a hammer. Maybe there was a second "toolroom" crew on site who reworked the broken pieces to make new excavation tools from them. A broken chisel edge can be renewed by flaking. This might be faster than having to replace the tool by transporting from some offsite workshop.


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## _harris (Oct 16, 2020)

I'm not sure they get freezing nights in India 

Kailasa is truly amazing, but certainly not unfeasible by human hand... ancient humans had the same mental functions as we do, just applied differently. they had the same ability to imagine, plan and create with what was around them! obviously the stories can change etc so we really have no

however, i also do not doubt that some previous kind of technology has existed. not sure about Kailasa though, it doesn't involve a ridiculous amount of stone being transported 100s of miles. or giant block movement, ridiculously tight fitting masonry.. have the angles, etc been studied by engineers? are they high-tech in angular and planar etc tolerances?


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## Felix Noille (Oct 16, 2020)

Forrest said:


> All in all, this is "advanced Stone Age" tech with little supporting industry required.



You get all that from a blurry photograph? I'm afraid your conclusions don't convince me, but then I've heard them all before. Your comments display an extraordinarily mainstream perspective.  Are you sure you're in the right forum?


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## Forrest (Oct 16, 2020)

Felix Noille said:


> Forrest said:
> 
> 
> > All in all, this is "advanced Stone Age" tech with little supporting industry required.
> ...



Would you please be specific about what it is you are objecting to in my analysis above? For example, _harris specifically objects to the idea of freezing temperatures out on the Deccan, which I cannot address, since I don't have access to historical temperature records.

For background, some more of my 'extraordinarily mainstream perspective' can be found here-
http://www.castaliahouse.com/scapegoats-and-sky-monsters
"Most exciting post I’ve read on this site. Followed all the links in post and comments. Utterly convincing! Love it!"

or here-

http://forrestbishop.mysite.com/Megafaunal.html
"Your paper on the Ice Age Extinction was great! Intriguingly written and a convincing solution. It makes the other story presented in the top selling book 'Sapiens' become questionable (I.e. humans are to blame for the mega fauna extinction)"

and some of my 'extraordinarily mainstream contributions' to electromagnetic theory here-

_View: https://www.scribd.com/document/320890002/The-Forbidden-Equation-i-qc_


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## Whitewave (Oct 17, 2020)

Citezenship said:


> Forrest said:
> 
> 
> > In contrast, the most mysterious feature of the Aswan quarry isn't the Unfinished Obelisk, it's the rounded corner of the quarry, quite even, several stories tall. That doesn't look like hand tools and it doesn't look like the natural result of a quarrying operation
> ...



Does that area not get rain? What sort of drainage do they have in place?


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## Forrest (Oct 17, 2020)

Whitewave said:


> Citezenship said:
> 
> 
> > Forrest said:
> ...



Idk how much rain or drainage. This feature of the Aswan quarry does not appear to be due to water erosion nor is there much evidence of such in any part of the quarry. For sense of scale, notice the people standing above the excavated wall. It is several stories tall, fairly flat, and covered with tool marks not unlike those underneath the Unfinished Obelisk. To the right is the corner of this wall, hidden in this view.




In this view we can see the wall and some of the rounded corner. The problem with this, nobody does quarries like this, it's a pointless waste of resources. So why is there this nice wall and its rounded (filleted) corner? IIRC, Chris Dunn has a gouging machine that goes along and clears the work area. The idea would be more appealing if we had the measurements of 1) the radii of the tool marks along the wall and 2) the radius of the corner. If those two number match, the same large, guided, tool- mechanized or otherwise- may have done both the flat and the fillet.
It was several stories tall. Its cutter was several feet across. Hand tools would not be able to do this without adding another pointless element- texture the worthless side of a quarry like this at a scale beyond normal hand tool ranges.




The filleted corner looks pretty fair, but we don't have data. If it is more or less a true cylindrical surface, then the tool was probably of that radius and rotating in the horizontal plane. Maybe it was a circular saw, mounted on vertical ways and moved along the ground. Maybe it was more akin to a flycutter.
The undercut ledge might be the measure of the vertical travel of this tool. The upper part would be cut first, then then tool lowered down and moved in to cut the lower section.

	Post automatically merged: Oct 17, 2020

I just noticed another curious feature in the last image, upper right. There appears to be part of another filleted corner of about the same radius as the main one, cut into the outcropping.

	Post automatically merged: Oct 17, 2020



Forrest said:


> Whitewave said:
> 
> 
> > Citezenship said:
> ...




	Post automatically merged: Oct 17, 2020



Forrest said:


> Whitewave said:
> 
> 
> > Citezenship said:
> ...


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## Felix Noille (Oct 17, 2020)

Forrest said:


> Would you please be specific about what it is you are objecting to in my analysis above?





Forrest said:


> *Construction Methods*
> This particular . The workers took advantage of this during the rough-in. Large pieces can be encouraged to break out by working along these fractures with chisels and wedges. Then the sharp-edged pieces get recycled as new tools.
> 
> The rock is not uniform, so the stronger pieces of basalt were turned against the weaker. A newly-broken piece can become a chisel, a wedge, or a hammer. Maybe there was a second "toolroom" crew on site who reworked the broken pieces to make new excavation tools from them. A broken chisel edge can be renewed by flaking. This might be faster than having to replace the tool by transporting from some offsite workshop.



This is all supposition. If the "basalt unit is shot through with partial fractures" how did such small, delicate and detailed statuary result in the final product?



Forrest said:


> "Most exciting post I’ve read on this site. Followed all the links in post and comments. Utterly convincing! Love it!"



This kind of 'peacocking' *REALLY *doesn't convince me in any way... at least not with respect to your theory regarding Kailasa,  of other things yes.


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## Felix Noille (Oct 17, 2020)

Maharashtra has a typical tropical monsoon climate. Minimum temperatures 12°C-34°C. *It never freezes.*



Forrest said:


> *4 ft³ excavated per day*, per worker, that doesn't sound unreasonable.
> claims it took 5.5 years to excavate with 250 workers.
> 4 ft³/day * 365 day/yr * 5.5 yr = 8030 ft³ per worker, assuming no holidays
> 8030 ft³/worker * 250 worker = *2,007,000 ft³* excavated
> ...



These figures come from a Bulletin of the Deccan College Post-Graduate and Research Institute
Vol. 41 (*1982*), pp. 33-45 (23 pages.) "4 ft³/day * *365 day/yr * 5.5 yr* = 8030 ft³ per worker, *assuming no holidays... doesn't sound unreasonable*," Really?


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## Whitewave (Oct 18, 2020)

My question about rain/ drainage was in regards to lack of flooding of the structure. The way it sits now it's basically a fancy swimming pool ( or has the potential, depending on rainfall and/or drainage measures in place).
Did the earth just open and swallow a previously above ground structure? Looks a little too level for that explanation, imho.
Nothing about this site makes sense to me.
Are there any pics of the interior? Is it still in use? Are there stairs leading down to the temple or does one just fling oneself onto the courtyard altar?
What a strange bit of architecture.


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## Forrest (Oct 18, 2020)

Whitewave said:


> My question about rain/ drainage was in regards to lack of flooding of the structure. The way it sits now it's basically a fancy swimming pool ( or has the potential, depending on rainfall and/or drainage measures in place).
> Did the earth just open and swallow a previously above ground structure? Looks a little too level for that explanation, imho.
> Nothing about this site makes sense to me.
> Are there any pics of the interior? Is it still in use? Are there stairs leading down to the temple or does one just fling oneself onto the courtyard altar?
> What a strange bit of architecture.



Sorry, I thought you were referring to the off-topic Aswan Quarry. I'll bet the floor is slightly sloped toward the entrance for drainage, wich is standard and ancient practice everywhere, afaik. It appears to have been extensively repaired, along with the stairways. The lighter-colored material is probably concrete.

The interiors are up on platforms, so they can't get flooded.

Notice the remains of the elephant statue, lower right, and the spalling nature of its destruction..




https://www.ancient-code.com/ancien...0-mind-bending-images-temple-carved-mountain/


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## _harris (Oct 18, 2020)

Felix Noille said:


> These figures come from a Bulletin of the Deccan College Post-Graduate and Research Institute
> Vol. 41 (*1982*), pp. 33-45 (23 pages.) "4 ft³/day * *365 day/yr * 5.5 yr* = 8030 ft³ per worker, *assuming no holidays... doesn't sound unreasonable*," Really?


i'm not sure how easy it would be to smash out 4x4x4ft of solid rock in a day without power tools!!
i've done a lot of digging and groundwork by hand... even with a combination of sledgehammer a heavy steel spike, some (much softer) rock is almost impossible to smash!! these guys musta been super strong!
and is that considered working 24 hours a day, or a shift of 8-10 hours?
after a couple of 8-10 hour days of smashing rock, the workers would be absolutely ragged, let alone every day for a 5.5 years!!

idea- maybe the rock was not so hard when they cut out the temple? like hard clay or something...


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## Citezenship (Oct 18, 2020)

_harris said:


> i'm not sure how easy it would be to smash out 4x4x4ft of solid rock in a day without power tools!!
> i've done a lot of digging and groundwork by hand... even with a combination of sledgehammer a heavy steel spike, some (much softer) rock is almost impossible to smash!! these guys musta been super strong!
> and is that considered working 24 hours a day, or a shift of 8-10 hours?
> after a couple of 8-10 hour days of smashing rock, the workers would be absolutely ragged, let alone every day for a 5.5 years!!
> ...


That is what i was thinking when i put the image from the top, has a rounded edge, like it has flowed into place.

Would clay, softer soil turn into rock with time, or has the petrification process been accelerated.

There are also drainage channels cut into the top of the rock!


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## Forrest (Oct 18, 2020)

_harris said:


> Felix Noille said:
> 
> 
> > These figures come from a Bulletin of the Deccan College Post-Graduate and Research Institute
> ...



4x4x4 = 64 cubic feet
4 ft³ is 4 * 1 * 1 = 4  cubic feet
4 Cubic Feet = 0.11326739 Cubic Meters

The 4 ft³/day is one estimate. there are others with lower rates of removal, using more men over longer periods. For example, twice as many men over twice as much time would be one cubic foot per day each.


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## Oracle (Oct 18, 2020)

trismegistus said:
			
		

> > The shamir was the seventh of the ten marvels created in the evening twilight of the first Friday (Ab. v. 6; comp. Pes. 54a; Sifre, Deut. 355; Mek., Beshallaḥ, 5 [ed. Weiss, p. 59b; ed. Friedmann, p. 51a]), and it was followed, significantly enough, by the creation of writing, the stylus, and the two tables of stone. Its size was that of a grain of barley; it was created after the six days of creation. *Nothing was sufficiently hard to withstand it; when it was placed on stones they split in the manner in which the leaves of a book open; and iron was broken by its mere presence. *The shamir was wrapped for preservation in spongy balls of wool and laid in a leaden box filled with barley bran..
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	Post automatically merged: Oct 18, 2020



JWW427 said:


> This astonishing megalithic complex and the Ellora Caves has always intrigued and baffled me.
> Here we are told that over dozens of years it was built by several rulers with presumably thousands of stone carvers and labor.
> I've seen large amounts of work done by large amounts of people, and its possible to accomplish big constructions.
> However, carving this wonder of the world raises some questions.
> ...





> the caves are a UNESCO World Heritage Site


Uh oh,just like *Ancient Gandhara, Afghanistan: Bamiyan Valley famous for Large Buddha Statues



*

I hope it's still around in  one hundred years.


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## Citezenship (Oct 18, 2020)

Oracle said:


> trismegistus said:
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Unfortunately that particular buddha has gone!





Destroyed by the British army, sorry the Taliban!

Although it did leave behind some interesting holes, like what you would think were drilled to add supports to a wooden structure, nice big open for a cave at the bottom too!


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## Felix Noille (Oct 18, 2020)

Whitewave said:


> My question about rain/ drainage was in regards to lack of flooding of the structure.



_"The temple also has bridges, a rainwater irrigation network, an *elaborate drainage system with concealed underground tunnels,* secret peepholes that can be used to hide and then spy on trespassers, balconies as well as massive staircases that branch off into several levels of the building and note that it is built from the bedrock with no stone blocks attached. All of this had to be carefully planned before work even began so there are no mistakes along the way. It is a work of perfection." __Source_​​And it's all still working perfectly today.


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## Oracle (Oct 18, 2020)

Citezenship said:


> Oracle said:
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Yes, that was kinda the point of my post...that they are destroying overt signs of ancient history.
The link where I got the images from was all about the "terrorist" destruction but in the end I didn't add it as it was too depressing a thought  ?

	Post automatically merged: Oct 18, 2020



Citezenship said:


> Oracle said:
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> > trismegistus said:
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Yes, that was kinda the point of my post...that they are destroying overt signs of ancient history.
The link where I got the images from was all about the "terrorist" destruction but in the end I didn't add it as it was too depressing a thought  ?
Sorry that wasn't clearer,I was having lots of trouble posting last night,not getting previews etc,eventually got it posted on the third try but it ended up a bit scattered.


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## Citezenship (May 1, 2021)

Some really good pics of this place,

https://humus.livejournal.com/7287703.html


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## Mortal (Oct 30, 2021)

> Formed from a single block of excavated stone


That. So sit down, make plan, search mountain and make that structure the other way around: instead of adding material, create something by removing material. Wow.
Not looking at the work or time frame, that takes some serious planning as it is not easy "ahhh yeah just start there and go down and make the central structure there. oh wait, I'll get some chalk and draw the lines. want some tea?"
Some next level complexity in my opinion. Meta level.


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