# Aharonsohn House, Israel: A story of Espionage and Hidden Structures



## Gladius (Jun 5, 2021)

In this thread I'd like to present the story of the *Aharonsohn House*, named after the Aharonsohn family, which can be found in Zikhron Ya'akov, Israel. The house is claimed to have been built in the 1880's, when the family immigrated to Palestine. A formidable and well-made structure for the era, the house seems to have great secrets, protected by the PTB.

I will cover the background and origins of the town, the family, the espionage network they were part of, and eventually the secret tunnel discovered there.

It is rather a small, less-known area, but with a story that fully demonstrates the power of the authorities to manipulate and cover-up.





_Aharonsohn House_

Background​
Aharonsohn House is said to be the home of the Aharonsohn family, and during WW1 it served as the secret headquarters of the Jewish *espionage network* called NILI., led by Aaaron Aharonsohn, Sara Aharonsohn and Avshalom Feinberg. The organization operated in 1915-1917 Palestine, in the last days of the Ottoman rule, and assisted the United Kingdom in preparing the ground for its conquest of Palestine. The organization's fate was to be discovered by the Ottomans, and most of its members executed. Their work is renowned in Israel to this day.

The stories about their operations are, to be fair, seeming to resemble low-quality spy movies. I for one do not believe them, as they involve impossible situations. For example, it is said the Turks learned of the network's existence by intercepting a homing pigeon carrying an encrypted message. Feinberg, a notable member, is said to have been murdered in the middle of the desert, and his body wasn't found and identified until 50 years later.

How did they know its location? Well, Feinberg carried date fruits in his bag, and so a palm tree had grown in the place of his death. Amazing.

The NILI's fantasy stories could deserve a whole thread, but we're here to look at the family and their house. The family's head at the time is Aaron Aharonsohn:

*Aaron Aaronsohn* (Hebrew: אהרון אהרנסון‎) (21 May 1876 – 15 May 1919) was a Jewish agronomist, botanist, and Zionist activist, who was born in Romania and lived most of his life in the Land of Israel, then part of the Ottoman Empire. Aaronsohn was the discoverer of emmer (_Triticum dicoccoides_), believed to be "the mother of wheat."  (Wikipedia)​
Aaron lived with his family in Zikhron Ya'akov, one of the earliest Jewish settlements in Israel, which I believe was selected to cover for an old-world area.

The settlement is known to be personally funded by the Baron Rothschild. The Baron is also the one who had sent Aaron abroad to become an agronomist. Aaron is credited with the discovery of the emmer being the original ancestor of wheat. It is said he was 'respected all over the world' for it. However the wiki articles of wheat/emmer do not bother to mention him, nor do we find strong evidence for his global recognition at the time. Seems Aaron was used by the PTB as another character that can be attributed with a scientific achievement (perhaps as a 'reward' for his services elsewhere).

Not only Aaron Aharonsohn was a great scientist, he also led a spy-movie style network. Apparently, he was another tool to be disposed after. His death by wiki:

"After the war, Weizmann called on Aaronsohn to work on the Versailles Peace Conference. On 15 May 1919, under unclear circumstances, Aaronsohn was killed in an airplane crash over the English Channel while on his way to France.[14] Some blamed the British government.[15]​Aaronsohn died a bachelor and had no children. His research on Palestine and Transjordan flora, as well as part of his exploration diaries, were published posthumously. After Aaronsohn's death, the director of British Military Intelligence, confirmed that Allenby's victory would not have been possible without the information supplied by the Aaronsohn group"​
Our instincts tell us that Aharonsohn and his group were simply agents and tools of the PTB. Now we must understand why were they placed in the house called 'Aharonsohn House'.

Zikhron Ya'akov​
As we saw, the house is located in Zikhron Ya'akov, in its old part. The settlement was allegedly established in 1882 on a newly-purchased, uninhabited area. _(At the time, there were no Jewish/Arab violent takeovers, if you wondered)_

The settlement suffered greatly in its early decades, as the settlers had struggled with their agriculture practices. It was on the brink of being dissolved, until Rothschild saved it with additional support. At the time, Zikhron was an unsuccessful poor town.

The imagery available to us is quite limited.  For reference, this is Zikhron in 1910's-20's, many years after its creation. We do see some order, but the housing is rather simple, and infrastructure is scarce.






_Zikhron Ya'akov, early 1900's._





_Public shower house, built in 1910_​
*The Aharonsohn House, however, does not fit the town at all.*

It was built by Aaron's parents, two Jewish farmers from Romania, who were the pioneers of the settlement. They worked their new land by hand, and did not have any wealth in particular. They're told to have lived in harsh conditions, and lost a couple children to disease.

Apparently, it did not stop them from building one of the most impressive houses in Palestine of the time, which was one of the poorest lands in the region. The other houses in town pale in comparison to it. Even the old *Mayor's House* looks pretty simple. In general, a simple research of early Israeli settlements will show you none had any impressive houses.




_Mayor's House, built 1882, Zikhron Ya'akov._​
It has went through many renovations since, and was opened as a Museum in 1956.


_


Aharonsohn House, early 1900's._




_The 'poor' Aharonsohn family also enjoyed a beautiful backyard with a fountain_




_We also see an underground stair entrance at the back_




_And as we saw before, an interesting 'castle' vibe structure_​
Based on the region, and other buildings in the vicinity, I sense that the house's foundations are either Ottoman or something earlier, and that a 'modern' structure was built around, or above it. The stones resemble the Ottoman style often found in the old cities of Jerusalem and Jaffa.

A structure called "*Binyamin Pool*" is found near the house, сlaimed to be dedicated to Benjamin Rothschild, and used as a water source.
I could not find any images depicting it as an active water funnel. The structure reminds me of other ones I have seen in both Israel and worldwide. (Three 'doors'.)



This, for example, are the 'Catacombs' of Beit She'arim in Israel. Discovered in 1950's, we're told it is an old Jewish site from the 2-4th century A.D. It may not be identical, but it's fair to say the site is a lot newer and might've served a different purpose.





_Beit She'arim Catabombs Entrance_​
The site itself is interesting as well. You can view its contents on the wiki page. Among are found a jewish Menorah on a carved structure, and a Scrophagus featuring a carving that reminds me of Masonic symbolism. It's likely that the site contents were re-arranged by the authorities.

The Secret Tunnel of Aharonsohn House



 


_"Escape Tunnels", Aharohnson House_​
This was perhaps the motive for me to research the house.

In 2015, the town unearthed a secret underground tunnel that runs beneath the house. It is claimed that the tunnel had been blocked for many years, and was opened after a long renovation. The 'experts' claim this tunnel was dug by no other but the NILI members, who needed a place to hide weapons, and to use it as an escape route from the house. The tunnel is long and leads to the other side of town, which was then uninhabited. Visitors may only access the first part of the tunnel that we see in the photos. It is impossible to find technical details or a video of this tunnel. The thoughts that arise here are:


The tunnel is fairly long and large. For a small network of 20-30 people (in all of Israel), building such a tunnel would be way too much work.
NILI network was mostly engaged in espionage and not in armed fighting. Why would they need such a big weapon storage?
Note:  At the time, Jewish militias were very small and didn't engage in much combat.
How could a family of farmers afford to build such a tunnel, and in secret, and without being noticed by Ottoman authorities? Imagine the amounts of rock and sand they'd need to throw out somewhere.
NILI existed for merely two years, not a likely time frame for building such a project.


Today, the house is a known museum, visited by thousands of Israelis every year. A lot was invested in its renovation, and the propaganda around it.

I believe the Aharonsohn House is a *remain *from the old era, that sits above an important site. The authorities did not allow the tunnel to be discovered until they've applied their usual risk-management work on it, disposing of anything that doesn't fit the narrative. We have stories from the town about how the tunnel was a 'myth' for many years until it was unearthed.

Add the fact that nearly all of the Aharonsohn family members had died or disappeared, and you get a classic PTB coverup.

Israel in itself has many sites that were covered up or were attributed to mythical sources. There are many stories I have researched regarding the origin of sites and the aggressive man-made terraforming that was applied in 19th-20th century Israel. Imagine that while every region in the world had its share of reconstruction, Israel was 'crowned' to be the Holy land and home of the newly created Israeli nation, and had to go through even a more critical process, in order to fit the narrative.

Aharonsohn House is in fact just a small 'gem' in the great reconstruction of Israel. If you know of interesting sites in the regions that deserve attention, please feel free to post them here.


----------



## HollyHoly (Jun 6, 2021)

a spy network "working for good of course "they tried to aid the Armenians" but alas their efforts were in vain 


> During the Armenian genocide, the group opposed the Yishuv leadership at the time, and tried to intervene on behalf of the Armenians.[3]
> 
> The choice of siding with the British against the ruling power, the Ottomans, was eventually proven right by history, but in taking it the members of Nili went against the majority view of their fellow Jews from the Yishuv, who feared fierce persecution. These fears almost materialised when the spy ring was discovered, and the Jews of Palestine* escaped **the tragic fate of the Armenians* only due to the intervention of the* Vatican, the German government and General Erich von Falkenhayn, commander of the Ottoman-German troops in Palestine.[4]**[5]*


this story is loaded with fortunate sources of  help from the very forces that seemingly  they are opposed to,
umm seems  that's quite the  rabbit hole  oh and thats some tunnel.  When ever do we have a spy story without a tunnel  oh and a convenient  nearby spring./watercourse . Good thread


----------



## Gladius (Jun 6, 2021)

HollyHoly said:


> a spy network "working for good of course "they tried to aid the Armenians" but alas their efforts were in vain
> 
> this story is loaded with fortunate sources of  help from the very forces that seemingly  they are opposed to,
> umm seems  that's quite the  rabbit hole  oh and thats some tunnel.  When ever do we have a spy story without a tunnel  oh and a convenient  nearby spring./watercourse . Good thread


Thanks for this! It's my first thread here 

The network itself is indeed a rabbit hole, besides the building itself.
If I assume correctly, the Armenian genocide only became public knowledge many years after it was done. It's hard to believe this network actually knew and acted about it.

----------------------------------------------------

About the tunnel, and possibly more of them:

In 2012, prior to the reveal of the 'escape tunnel', an incident happened in the town of Zihron Ya'akov:
The town hall revealed a renovation plan for many of the old streets, as part of a bigger plan to expand neighborhoods.

Today, Zihron is not a poor town at all, but among the higher-income ones in Israel.
In a very exceptional and anti-constitutional move,  the town notified dozens of citizens that their yards, parking lots and other spaces, will be taken from them and annexed to the town's territory.
In a Hebrew magazine news-story, the towns folk express their rage against the planners.
One must understand Israel is a generally lawful country (within its borders), and just as you won't expect such a move in a German, or Canadian city, it will neither happen in Israel. This is a totally unprecedented case.

The interesting part is this (Translated):

_"Another claim that comes from the residents, is that on the plan's territory exists a vast network of historical tunnels and caves, which were never examined. The plan 'completely ignores their existence', they add, 'and prior to the plan's application, we must survey the tunnels and mark them as protected, historical sites'._

The town's people take the local heritage very seriously, for it's partly their source of income (tourism).
The plan was resisted for many years (and with lots of bureaucracy) until it was approved in 2020. During that time, we see the sudden reveal of the Aharonsohn tunnel, which leads into the old Mayor House, and ends up on the other side of town. No other tunnels were revealed, allegedly and suspiciously.

Another house, not far from Aharonsohn's, was also renovated in 2012. The owner found there a tunnel as well.




_Tunnel under Hornstein House, Zihron Ya'akov_

The tunnel was discovered by the town's contractor who was renovating the street.
The house owner said: _"I'm convinced it was used by the spy network, even though there's no proof!"._

The rear part of the house, in its ruined state, also does not correlate with the style of houses commonly built by the Jewish settlers.




_Hornstein House, rear view before renovation._


The owner in fact renovated the tunnel from his own pocket, as the state refused to help him with conversation of the site, and denied it has any importance. Typically the Israeli government quickly "hijacks" such sites and brags about them for propaganda or profit purposes. However it seems here they're not reluctant to help. In fact the town hall tried to blackmail the owner to pay for the tunnel, since he 'expanded his territory', and *even threatened to block it.*

What will they find if they keep digging?


----------



## Alexandra (Jun 6, 2021)

It is not the first time I see an alleged new house overgrown by ivy on an old photo.
Ivy grows quick ... But _that_ fast?


----------



## Gladius (Jun 6, 2021)

Alexandra said:


> It is not the first time I see an alleged new house overgrown by ivy on an old photo.
> Ivy grows quick ... But _that_ fast?



I also wondered about the ivy on the wall.
The photos we have are only 1900+, allegedly some 15+ years after the house was built.
Google says English Ivy grows some 2-3 meters per year. If that is a fixed rate which doesn't change, then it could be actually.
What has my attention is the "castle" design covered by that ivy. Couldn't find yet any photos that show us how it looked at the time. Could be a renovation or an original just as well.


----------



## Alexandra (Jun 6, 2021)

This is what the Russians say about him:
Ааронсон, Аарон — Википедия

Basically it comes to this:
- he was no friends of the Rothschilds because he found them corrupt 
- he was no friends with the yishuv settlers


Gladius said:


> I also wondered about the ivy on the wall.
> The photos we have are only 1900+, allegedly some 15+ years after the house was built.
> Google says English Ivy grows some 2-3 meters per year. If that is a fixed rate which doesn't change, then it could be actually.
> What has my attention is the "castle" design covered by that ivy. Couldn't find yet any photos that show us how it looked at the time. Could be a renovation or an original just as well.


Why would you let it grow? It is still believed (untrue) that it "kills" buildings, plants and trees.
It just doesn't fit in the botanic thing either.


----------



## Gladius (Jun 6, 2021)

Alexandra said:


> This is what the Russians say about him:
> Ааронсон, Аарон — Википедия
> 
> Basically it comes to this:
> ...



Russian wiki is always interesting, gives a different perspective.
Israel's narrative actually places him as directly connected to Rothschild.

With the Yishuv settlers it's probably a passive-aggressive story.
The settlements were often controlled by a corrupt 'council' made of clerks and governors unrelated to the settler families. The settlements that comprised of east european families (Russia, Poland, Romania etc.) were usually managed by groups of 'elitist' French or German jews, and those often made their lives bitter. Influence of Masonic and Christian characters was also common, in contrast to the settlers who were either orthodox or conservative jews. 
There were usually people who'd bee the 'connection' between the commoners and the elitists. Aharonsohn is a great example. The settlers were Romanian, and so were they. However, the Yishuv knew they were 'connected', an old version of "shills". Therefore you could speculate that the Aharonsohns' work benefited the settlers, but at the same time caused them trouble.

The Ivy indeed seems like there was simply nobody there to take care of it. Perhaps the House wasn't as 'occupied' as they'd present it.


----------



## Alexandra (Jun 6, 2021)

This whole family seems strange - his sister witnessed the Armenian genocide so for that she decides to spy for the _Brits_ ?  
Against the will of the controlling yeshuv?
So, if these people would have stayed alive they would have had tons of information about all that things going on over there.

https://www.haaretz.com/amp/israel-...e-israeli-legacy-of-aaron-aaronsohn-1.7252240

_"The Turkish authorities, who recognized his skills, sought to recruit him, and Aaronsohn told them about a way to make motor oil from vegetable oil. For that he received a permit to move freely around the Ottoman Empire. Using this permit he managed to travel to Denmark and from there, on an American boat, to cross the lines to the British side."_

This guy and his family just knew too much and seemed too dangerous or perhaps even too blunt on that zionist congress so the plane disappeared.
People disappear for less reasons.

It seems a - I have no word for that- a _thing_ to dig up "forgotten history" and rewrite it into some sort of fit- in narrative. And then the books come.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1385199.Lawrence_and_Aaronsohn

By the way, I see a fat farmer on the photo, I don't see this guy living in a castle- kind of house.


----------



## Alexandra (Jun 7, 2021)

Edit:
I found this book that reveals why the Aaronsohns were supposed to be buried in history. 
Every sentence is like: _wait, what?_ I can not even summarize it. 
Maybe this: they actually _liked_ the arabs. They worked together in Palestine and wanted to continue to work together in the later Israelian agriculture. 
Sarah allegedly had a romance with Lawrence of Arabia, which was considered as something terrible for the zionist vision.

Aaronsohn's Maps

This short story/ book allegedly written by the brother who managed to stay alive until 1948 tells about the palestinian / turkish conflicts and that he managed to escape via his logust 'permit' 

I also never knew that the Germans were expanding territory and were colonising Palestine in the 1915's 
They were also called "Teutons" ?
The nowaday story is about a handful of German religious settlers.

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/10338/10338-h/10338-h.htm
Here is even more information; they were seen as traitors and opponent and even dangerous to the zionist movement:
https://segulamag.com/en/articles/שובם-של-המרגלים/

That Benjamin water building looks a lot like the Pompeii roman water castellum so I would not be surprised that it was, indeed, a water building in ancient times. 
The first thing I notice on google maps street is some kind of ancient structured building and the place was first named Samaria or that kind.
They just stole the buildings and threw some lies around it, because nobody remembers anyway.


----------



## Gladius (Jun 7, 2021)

Great find @Alexandra 
It's indeed confusing in which side they were. Probably the reason they got rid of.
They're all revered as national heroes in Israel, which is a great tactic to make people overlook things that are difficult to bury.

Templers in Israel seem to got "buried" as well. The narrative was changing rapidly in those years, and they indeed didn't fit for someone. I believe it'd take a German speaker to actually get to the bottom of this.
Germany had a strong influence in Palestine, which decreased after WW1, and was gone after WW2. The German-Jews immigrants were the wealthiest and most educated of all immigration waves, and they tried to make the emerging Israeli culture to be German as well.

The *Technion* is one of the oldest and most successful universities of science in Israel. To this day, their degrees have the most value in the country. In 1913, a controversy rose in the country when the Technion decided to make German the official teaching language.
The War of the Languages broke out because of this move. Palestine was divided between Hebrew and German supporters. Eventually, Hebrew prevailed as the mandatory teaching language in all education.


Alexandra said:


> The first thing I notice on google maps street is some kind of ancient structured building and the place was first named Samaria or that kind.
> They just stole the buildings and threw some lies around it, because nobody remembers anyway.


Zihron Yaakov was first called "Samaria" because the settlers identifed the area with the biblical Israelite city. Later, modern archeology placed Samaria far east from there.

Interestingly, a children's book of bible stories from 19th century actually calls the city "Sumeria", a name later attributed to a newly discovered  culture by graverobber "archeologists" who worked on sites in Iraq.
(I need to find the source link again)


----------



## Alexandra (Jun 7, 2021)

Gladius said:


> Templers in Israel seem to got "buried" as well.


I have the feeling that the roman/ whatever history was shorter ago than x BC 
Why does Alexander Aaronsohn refer to "Teutons Germans" ?
And why are these sites so in plain sight while here (Netherlands) they keep digging in the mud for "ancient roman" acheologists finds?


----------



## Gladius (Jun 7, 2021)

Alexandra said:


> I have the feeling that the roman/ whatever history was shorter ago than x BC
> Why does Alexander Aaronsohn refer to "Teutons Germans" ?
> And why are these sites so in plain sight while here (Netherlands) they keep digging in the mud for "ancient roman" acheologists finds?


The crusaders Kingdom of Jerusalem is said to have been taken over by the German Teutonic Order in the 12th century. Did Palestine got "germanized" at some point?, and was it much later in history? (15th-18th century). The Ottomans did not seem to care for the continuous German-Christian influence in Palestine all throughout the years, even let them build churches and pilgrim homes in Jerusalem, which by the way, was not considered important for Muslims back in those days. Did the Turks simply "kept watch" of Palestine for the Germans?


----------



## Alexandra (Jun 7, 2021)

Gladius said:


> The Ottomans did not seem to care for the continuous German-Christian influence in Palestine all throughout the years, even let them build churches and pilgrim homes in Jerusalem,


Yes, check the diary of Alexander, 

"_Moreover, as if by magic, the whole country became Germanized. In all the mosques, Friday prayers were ended with an invocation for the welfare of the Sultan and "Hadji Wilhelm." The significance of this lies in the fact that the title "Hadji" can be properly applied only to a Moslem who has made the pilgrimage to Mecca and kissed the sacred stone of the Kaaba. Instant death is the penalty paid by any Christian who is found within that enclosure: yet Wilhelm II, head of the Lutheran faith, stepped forward as "Hadji Wilhelm." His pictures were sold everywhere; German officers appeared; and it seemed as if a wind of brutal mastery were blowing."_
The Ottoman empire as told in the Netherlands were known for their religious freedom:
"Better the Turks than the Spaniards" (catholics)
https://nl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liever_Turks_dan_paaps


----------



## Gladius (Jun 7, 2021)

Alexandra said:


> Yes, check the diary of Alexander,
> 
> "_Moreover, as if by magic, the whole country became Germanized. In all the mosques, Friday prayers were ended with an invocation for the welfare of the Sultan and "Hadji Wilhelm." The significance of this lies in the fact that the title "Hadji" can be properly applied only to a Moslem who has made the pilgrimage to Mecca and kissed the sacred stone of the Kaaba. Instant death is the penalty paid by any Christian who is found within that enclosure: yet Wilhelm II, head of the Lutheran faith, stepped forward as "Hadji Wilhelm." His pictures were sold everywhere; German officers appeared; and it seemed as if a wind of brutal mastery were blowing."_
> The Ottoman empire as told in the Netherlands were known for their religious freedom:
> ...


That's a mindblow.
What if he did perform the Mecca ritual?
We have disputes already from Fomenko about Mecca's identity.

Wilhelm visited the Levant extensively, but he never went to Arabia. He did visit Jerusalem and Istanbul - candidates for the real "meccas" of the time.
Of course, it could be he went to the Arabian Mecca, and that was omitted from history. And you could see why. However the PTB often "divert" such events and not "delete" them, so I tend to think it's the Constantinople visit which gave him the credit.

----
Edit:

Another find from Aharonsohn House:

This antique chair is found in the main room. We can see a Star of David in the middle part. The arrow points to what looks like a pentagram above a crescent. Clearly the family chose the chair for its jewish symbol, it was most likely custom designed. Why would those symbols appear there? The pentagram is foreign to judaism. It is however connected with some Christian, Occult, Masonic and Islamic circles. Gotta look further into the furniture, although it's all been tempered with already.


----------



## Alexandra (Jun 7, 2021)

Gladius said:


> Wilhelm visited the Levant extensively,


Mindblowing indeed because history is told different in different countrys.
As far as I have been told, Germany played a minor role both in colonising and the middle east (where the Brits and France were rivalrys) and the Germans went to the Turks when they needed allies for their nazi ideas.
So basically every single word here is new to me.

That pentagram is indeed also a thing. In WW2 the major of Rotterdam was photographed with this pentagram freemason symbol by the NSB (Dutch nazi), so it appears to be pro- Brits or anti German.
There is also a German propaganda film before the bombardement that says in German: "the Rotterdams prefer the tyranny of the Brits plutocrats ...."
According to the stories Aaron prefered the Brits and hated the Germans.
So the chair might fit this narrative.
Edit: the major of Rotterdam was a known freemason.


----------



## Gladius (Jun 7, 2021)

Alexandra said:


> Mindblowing indeed because history is told different in different countrys.
> As far as I have been told, Germany played a minor role both in colonising and the middle east (where the Brits and France were rivalrys) and the Germans went to the Turks when they needed allies for their nazi ideas.
> So basically every single word here is new to me.
> 
> ...


Palestine was infested with Masons and crypto-Masons in those times. Virtually all of Tel Aviv's founders, leaders and key characters were masons.

Back then they controlled the education system, which was mainly of French origin. The Alliance,  a Jewish-French, crypto-masonic organization, dominated the Palestine school system at the time.
It was very beneficial for one to have masonic connections in Palestine of the time. But they were also very private about it. They have an interesting role in that country, it is one of the few where the masonic principle is actually fulfilled, in which Jews, Muslims and Christians actively participate in the same lodge.


----------



## Alexandra (Jun 8, 2021)

Literally nothing of this (language thing)0 is available in Dutch (wiki)
The Dutch government always had a very pro-Israel stance (as if it was an "empty" country before) so if you don't know any of this, you also don't know what to search for.


----------



## Gladius (Jun 9, 2021)

Alexandra said:


> Literally nothing of this (language thing)0 is available in Dutch (wiki)
> The Dutch government always had a very pro-Israel stance (as if it was an "empty" country before) so if you don't know any of this, you also don't know what to search for.


Well, Amsterdam became an important Jewish hub in 17th-19th centuries. The Iberian bankers fled to Holland where they received many rights.
When the Frankist-Sabbatean movement gained influence in Judaism (Shabtai Zvi, Jacob Frank), Amsterdam was among the main embracers. The Sabbateans later "faded out" while cloaking themselves into the Zionist movement. Amsterdam bankers then became a major money funnel for the Palestine settlers.

Important fact is, that the Sabbateans were at open war with the Orthodox jews for centuries. The Orthodox opposed the Zionists as well. Orthodox often refused to assimilate or cooperate with authorities, and specially not to relocate (like many groups did in 1880-1945). They suffered the greatest damage among Jews in WW2, possibly being deliberately targeted by Zionists who played for all sides in the war.


----------



## Alexandra (Jun 9, 2021)

Gladius said:


> Well, Amsterdam became an important Jewish hub in 17th-19th centuries. The Iberian bankers


I do now know the history because I found it after very, very long research.
But they "hide" it and deny it in the mainstream narrative.

They say these wealthy men were "Portugese merchants" who came to Amsterdam and like to keep the story up, that the jews in Amsterdam were sometimes rich, but most of them very very poor creatures living in the jewish quarter under terrible circumstances.

The (random) jews here , don't even believe or know, about this. And their involvemend in the VOC , colony of Surinam etc.

every ("expensive") Canal House in Amsterdam had a jew living in there before ww2.

I'd even say that in Amsterdam it seemed like the French revolution: the Dutch (!) first stole everything from the rich jews like: oh we will hide you for exchange (houses, porcelain, fur coats, jewels) and then sent them to the camps; they hot 7,50 guilder reward per jew from the authorities (who ever that were)

I even found out via a 1915 +/- book (they wont tell you in school) about street lights, that the you know who jews (Montefiore Rothschilds etc, the usual suspects) controlled the whole gas supply via the _Imperial Continental Gas Association_
But mind you: English wiki said it was some random English guy.
The joke in newspapers was something like: "i control whole (gans) Amsterdam" thieves.


I did read about some rivalry too, but they deny it all. It is very hard to find if you don't know what to look for.

The sephardi jews were fanatic Orangists (loyal to the king, probably the biggest financer too) while the other (?) jews were socialist and communist and even planned an assault on the queen somewhere round 1915.
The queen did try to hide these sephardi jews but they were betrayed anyway, almost at the end of the war.
After the war she was like : huh, wat? Don't know anything?

Nowadays the mainstream narrative is: no, we were never rivals.

I was in Israël as an only 14 yo child in december 1987, the first Intifada broke out; I visited the jews that were put to the frontline (the not so white jews) against the exploding Palestines and I can tell: they kept discriminating and dividing even in the Holy land.


----------



## Gladius (Jun 10, 2021)

Alexandra said:


> I do now know the history because I found it after very, very long research.
> But they "hide" it and deny it in the mainstream narrative.



Great things you said here which I'd like to elaborate. It turned to be a bit long but I have much to add.

The Hebrew wiki in fact talks in great joy about the Jewish involvement in Holland which you say the Dutch one 'forgets'. (and local narrative in general does)
I now recall a thread here on SH which described how the Dutch-Jews helped sponsoring and installing William of Orange in England (as part of the process to establish the Bank of England). On that part actually, the Hebrew sources try to downplay the identity of the Jewish involvement. (unlike in more 'popular' events, where they take pride  in it)


> The (random) jews here , don't even believe or know, about this. And their involvemend in the VOC , colony of Surinam etc.
> When you visit the jewish museum they keep the "poor jews holocaust etc" narrative.



Jews in most of the world neither have any idea about their people's involvement in countries' affairs. They're usually taught this 'innocent' narrative, telling them they always but minded their own business, and it was the locals who scapegoated them. They believe that If some Jew was involved in a scheme, it's just by a matter of chance, or that Jews are 'naturally talented and educated', and simply end up in positions of power due to their hard work. Which is indeed partially true, Jews in foreign places tend to have great discipline, but obviously that's not the reason.

However it is true that most Jews, especially the ones from eastern Europe, lived a poor life - sometimes more than Christians. There are many stories and evidence of their disastrous sanitary conditions, epidemics, and reliance on donations by richer Jews. In Holland, the poor mostly made up of easterns who migrated there.
This has much to do with the role of Jews in the days of the 'united empire', and what has become of it. I could make a thread about it, but let's try:

----

If we go with our common SH narrative, we had a sort of decentralized but *united Empire*, stretching from 'Roman empire' borders and perhaps into every edge of the world. In the world of feudalism and caste systems, Jews were actually a *caste,* and were *officially *considered as one in the European 'caste' system. The authority gave them certain codes of behavior and practices, just like all castes had.
In both Muslim and Christian lands, the locals were denied practices of lending, banking, interest and such. All those were allowed for the Jews. Jews were often denied ownership of farming lands, or lands in general. Jews were more literate, due to their children learning to read scriptures early on, giving them a 'push' for learning arts such as medicine, law, finance and diplomacy. The empire in fact *made sure *the Jews would engage in the practices defined for them. Many also became involved with the art of brewing alcohol. In Morocco, the 'quality' Araq drink is still called "The Jews' Drink" and is very valued. In Ukraine, there's the old meme of the Jew who opens a bar in town and 'corrupts' the locals into becoming drunkards and gamblers.

Successful Jews were known to work at the King's Court, in any country they lived. Wherever their financial advise had influence, banks and debt systems were born, and were either used by a King to gain leverage over his subjects, or used to cripple the economy of a rival state, always resulting in the Jews being expelled from it. They always end up in new places, where the King 'welcomes them in open arms', since he actually 'needs' Jews to jumpstart his local economy, which within decades will actually lead to its 'restart', i.e the power takeover in Spain and the exile of its Jews.

Since we know most royals are *related *in bloodline, and that the rivalries between them aren't as presented to us, we then realize Jews were effectively "*traded*" between the royals, as its the nature of their caste in the system. They run the financial 'game', by advising, banking or collecting taxes, which 'alienates' them from the locals. Jews developed their religious system to *separate* themselves from the locals. Separate in a way that even having a dinner with a local wouldn't be possible due to food restrictions. (Orthodox jews may not eat food cooked by a non-Jew. Pork, Seafood - forbidden) They even made their own local dialects and Jewish script, used in Hebrew/Aramaic, to prevent locals from reading their scriptures and letters. Jews had their official protection from the local King, allowing them to maintain their network across the whole empire (in a time when a commoner couldn't cross a border so easily).

As we believe, the Empire dissolved at some point. We're unsure when exactly. The point is that Jews, like many groups, had lost their role in the system, their protection. And thus they became a 'lost people'. Same happened to the Gypsies, who had an imperial caste role, and even the Cossacks, who became an 'army without a king'. A vacuum was created.
I speculate the idea for a 'Jewish state' first sparked when the Empire dissolved. Perhaps the story attributing the Jews origin to Israel first began then as well. Acts of revenge by local populations begin everywhere, and many Jews are slaughtered all around the world.
The authorities respond by creating 'Jewish ghettos' everywhere, and deporting remote communities into them.
In *1791*,the Russian Empire creates the Pale of Settlement, a region stretching from Poland-Lithuania to Ukraine, in which Jews are only allowed to reside. Mass deportations and restrictions have caused millions of Jews to lose property and financial value, which most of them will not recover from until post-WW2, although the 'settlement' region dissolved in 1917.

In this era we see the creation of the 'modern', 'Orthodox' Jews, known as Haredim. The 'black-white' appearance we know is a creation of the 19th century, that came in response to the Haskalah, the movement of Jewish Enlightenment. The authorities sought to 'combat' Judaism by persuading them to become secular and blend in with the locals. They often used Christian infiltrators, who pretended to be Jewish, and spread such ideas. Many Jews became Christian, and influenced Jews to abandon their ways. Zionism is also a part of it, made to 'secularize' Judaism. Today most think that the 'Haredi' look is how Jews always looked like, but in old art we see them depicted in ways that wouldn't be appropriate in what we perceive as "Jew". _( + I believe some groups were later given a title of 'Jews' with implanted false origins)_
What I see is that both the Jews and the authorities, have been experimenting with how to 'save' the Jews from the loss of their imperial role, while *adapting *them to the emerging, new world order. It involved the breakdown of the Jews into rival factions who did not care to incite locals into killing Jews, or used psyops to cause a community to relocate.
Evidently, the Jews of the Maghreb (Morocco, Tunisia) and Iraq, did not lose their imperial status so fast. It coincides with the idea that those parts had kept their "Imperial" values longer than Europe. Even into the 1930's, many still served in the Kings courts.
[There is a meme about Moroccan Jews in Israel, who sometime say _"You know, My grandpa was the King's minister..."]_
In 1900's, Zionist agents had to use psyops of "pogroms" against Iraqi Jews, to push them into running for the Zionists' evacuations, who already waited with transport to take them to Palestine.



> (Montefiore Rothschilds etc, the usual suspects) controlled the whole gas supply via the _Imperial Continental Gas Association_



As you described Rothschild type of actions, you can now imagine how it works. The rich and powerful Jews keep an army of scapegoats, ready to receive the blame for their actions, and take damage. They'd then relocate and secure them a new home, still forever alienating them from locals - ensuring their dependence on the system. _"Wherever you'd go, they will hate you, because you're a Jew"._
Most Jews were and still *manipulated *into being involved in their leaders' schemes, and had no way out but to give up on their religious identity. So at the same time, they're '_parasites_', but also '_innocents_'. It's a contradiction which makes the 'game' so good.
In parallel, a ravaging 'Army' is made of young men who want to do good for their people, but end up being pawns who,
at worst - perform atrocities, and at best - simply waste the country's resources on an arms' race. The contradiction prevails.
_(note: I'm not saying armies aren't needed)_

--------------


> Nowadays the mainstream narrative is: no, we were never rivals.



The rivalry within Jews, mostly between 'orthodox' and 'Sabbateans', has been mostly silenced and is mainly discussed in two circles: conspiracy and pre-modern Rabbinical texts. The Sabbateans are related to the cult of Saturn which most of us are familiar with. (Shabtai = Saturn in Hebrew.) I believe Sabbatai Zvi, their legendary leader, is a phantom character serving as a basis for the actual leader,
Jacob Frank, who claimed to be his reincarnation.
_[Fun Fact_: The Sabbateans (secretly) control the gambling institution of Israel. I discovered that for many decades, the (rigged) lottery game is licensed to only be performed by the Saturn lottery machine. (_ See Saturnalia, the Roman gambling festival)]_

These days, some 'anti-mainstream' Rabbis talk extensively about how the Sabbateans corrupted and infiltrated characters to create the 'ungodly' state of Israel. Some even say they tricked *Rothschild *himself, and even edited his photographs of the time, to downplay his Orthodox appearance and pass him off as the 'enlightened, modern Jew'.
*Connecting with the original post*, the Sabbateans in fact waged war on religion in the early days of Zionist settlements. Families were ordered to dispose their Orthodox wear, and would be denied food (!) if caught wearing anything 'Jewish'. Families like *Aharonsohn *might have been one of those who 'set the example' for the new behaviors, making them despised by the settlers, who got stripped off their identity. Most settlers were persuaded to immigrate under the promise that they'd come to a land where they can freely practice the religion, but it was in fact - a *trap*.

---



> _I was in Israël as an only 14 yo child in december 1987, the first Intifada broke out; I visited the jews that were put to the frontline (the not so white jews) against the exploding Palestines and I can tell: they kept discriminating and dividing even in the Holy land._




It is so to this day, yet partially true. When it comes to 'combat' units, the Israeli army indeed has a higher ratio of Sephardic & African jews.
However it has to do with the structure of the Infantry forces. The Brigades each have a unique identity and style.
(It is detailed in Russian wiki: IDF Infantry Brigades)
Some Brigades have a more 'brown' identity, while the 'Paratroopers' and 'Nahal' for example are more 'white'.
While all Brigades experience all regions, the 'white' ones are specialized for the foreign borders. So you could say that, in a Palestinian uprising the 'brown' ones would do most of the dirty work, but in a war event the 'white' ones will.

Indeed, the rivalry stretches to the Ashkenazi vs. Sephardi area. The Sabbateans never managed to infiltrate the Sephardics so well, and only managed to takeover the Turkish community.


----------



## Alexandra (Jun 11, 2021)

Gladius said:


> So at the same time, they're '_parasites_', but also '_innocents_'. It's a contradiction which makes the 'game' so good.


Before anything else: I do everything on my phone so I have some problems with quoting, links, and autocorrect (Dutch)

BUT thanks for the extended answer.

Up until today I feel as if random jews are both used as bait (they are still subject to bombing by controlled opposition Hamas), and also as "labaratory animals" (look at the vaccine program for example) and if you mention only the slightest thing or question anything, they draw the "booooo! antisemitism" card.

As far as I know, the mizrahi jews were not only discriminated at arrival and then put to the frontline, like: "hey this is the promised land, its YOUR land and look what those Palestines do to you! They blow up your brothers and sisters!" 
What turned them now into the most fanatic settlers. It fits info what I saw in 1987. 
Just divide and conquer

According to what I found about the Aaronsohn family is that 
1. They put the whole community of new settlers in danger with their actions. The jews betrayed them to the Turks.
2. They didn't fit the socialist (almost communist) narrative because they believed in ownership of the land, self determination and working together with te Arabs/Palestines. 




Gladius said:


> The rivalry within Jews, mostly between 'orthodox' and 'Sabbateans


The thing that I once found (but can't find it anymore) is that the orthodox / zionist jews, were not so happy that in Germany and Holland the jews were assimilating, leaving the jewish entity behind. 
It is food for the nazi separation rules....

In Holland and Surinam colony there was most certain a divide between the (rich) sephardi and the poor askenazi.
At a time somewhere 1800 or so the costs of poor askenazi jews was so high in Amsterdam for the rich jews, they just put them on ships to, i don't know, "the colonys" just to get rid of the burden.

The sephardi jews sent a letter to the Nazis like:
 "We are not those jews that you're after! We are different from the askenazi! We are civilicized high educated people with great value! Please spare us"
They were betrayed just before the war ended and sent to the camps.


----------



## Gladius (Jun 11, 2021)

Alexandra said:


> BUT thanks for the extended answer.
> 
> Up until today I feel as if random jews are both used as bait (they are still subject to bombing by controlled opposition Hamas), and also as "labaratory animals" (look at the vaccine program for example) and if you mention only the slightest thing or question anything, they draw the "booooo! antisemitism" card.



You're welcome. I have a lot 'saved up' after a long SH lurking 

'Random Jews' in fact don't get any more actual damage than other groups. They are however subject to a very heavy manipulation, which puts them in a self-centered worldview. Most holidays, religious and secular events revolve around the 'attempts to destroy them', perhaps with the exception of jewish new year. For example:
Passover = Slavery and escape from Egypt (used to be the new year in old calendar, a stolen-history issue by itself)

Israel indeed was an experiment ground for the vaccine, but I think we tend to forget all the medical atrocities done in Africa and Asia for example, on such a larger scale.
'Antisemitism' is a bad joke indeed. I sense a reverse-psychology used to strengthen their relatively new claim of having originated for the Levant, a thing which I don't find proven at all.



Alexandra said:


> As far as I know, the mizrahi jews were not only discriminated at arrival and then put to the frontline, like: "hey this is the promised land, its YOUR land and look what those Palestines do to you! They blow up your brothers and sisters!"


I think Ashkenazi and Mizrahi soldiers suffered the same burden, in the first 50 years at least.


Alexandra said:


> What turned them now into the most fanatic settlers. It fits info what I saw in 1987.
> Just divide and conquer



 in fact you have some very fanatic 'white' settler groups that would give a good fight to that claim 
I'm sure your experience was genuine but you might have only seen just one side of things. Not far from reality though.



Alexandra said:


> According to what I found about the Aaronsohn family is that
> 1. They put the whole community of new settlers in danger with their actions. The jews betrayed them to the Turks.
> 2. They didn't fit the socialist (almost communist) narrative because they believed in ownership of the land, self determination and working together with te Arabs/Palestines.



Yes, it makes sense. Jews until WW2 had a tendency to always side with the authorities. It was even normal for Jews to serve on opposing armies in battle. Rabbis even allowed them to consume *pork *at the frontline. (shows you their dedication to support local armies)
It is also a very known concept among Jews of old times, that it's important to be at best terms with the local rulers, despite their political standing, to ensure the safety of the Jews. Participation in revolts was often prohibited by Rabbis, even for a just cause. It is always 'Zionists' who openly meddle with the non-Jews affairs or smuggle insurgents (like the Aharonsohns).

I'm not sure about Arab-cooperation. The Yishuv started from that stance of employing the trading with Arabs.


Alexandra said:


> The thing that I once found (but can't find it anymore) is that the orthodox / zionist jews, were not so happy that in Germany and Holland the jews were assimilating, leaving the jewish entity behind.
> It is food for the nazi separation rules....
> 
> In Holland and Surinam colony there was most certain a divide between the (rich) sephardi and the poor askenazi.
> At a time somewhere 1800 or so the costs of poor askenazi jews was so high in Amsterdam for the rich jews, they just put them on ships to, i don't know, "the colonys" just to get rid of the burden.



I think it also played to their favor, as they helped 'sacrifice' them, and perpetuated it into the story of the grand jewish massacre, a much needed "ammo" they needed for Israel. Not many know though, but that propaganda really kicked in by the 1960's, when Eichmann was trialed and executed in Israel. It was also the first time that Holocaust testimonials got to the "main stage" in Israeli media. Prior to that, there was this code of silence, a shame. Survivors 'disturbed' the image of the 'native', Jewish warrior settlers.

I think colonies were used to get rid of all kinds of people. But in the same way we could say that Ashkenazi were 'reassigned' to the colonies so that the financial game could extend to the 'new world'. In late 1800's thousands of Morocacn (Sephardi) Jew families immigrated to South America to specialize in the rubber industry, for example.



Alexandra said:


> The sephardi jews sent a letter to the Nazis like:
> "We are not those jews that you're after! We are different from the askenazi! We are civilicized high educated people with great value! Please spare us"
> They were betrayed just before the war ended and sent to the camps.



The Sephardi simply worked together with the 'enlightened' sect of the Ashkenazi to achieve the goals.
What backs your claim is the* Nazi occupation of Morocco*, which is so strange that Jewish history just doesn't discuss it.
Morocco's Jews are a very large community. 1940, Vichy France occupies Morocco. While the Jews do get counted and restricted, they get a very different treatment - no camps, no killings. Later, a story was invented about *150 Moroccan Jews that were sent all the way to Auschwitz* (_from Morocco...)_. Why would they be sent there, if there was actually a place much closer?:

20,000* French *Jews were deported to Morocco and placed in labor camps made only for them. Why no 'extermination'? And, why not send Moroccan Jew prisoners, to the Moroccan camp? What a waste would be, to transport them by trucks, ships and trains. sounds more expansive than a bullet. (which they claim g*s chambers were meant to save on)
Another issue: How could 150 Jews be sent and reported to die in Auschwitz, if killings haven't began there before *1942*, when the Allies had already landed in Morocco and seized it? Someone got lazy with the dates I guess.


Interestingly, the moment Morocco was captured by the Allies, pogroms against the Jews began. Were the French in fact protecting them all along?

Bonus fact: Berber Jews (Atlas Mountains)
Those Jews had the important role of being mediums between the tribes of the Atlas, who often engaged in war against each other.
Jews had a special permission to cross tribal borders and negotiate peace or trade.
This coincides with what I explained in the previous post, about the Jews being a caste with a role to play. In Europe they had lost that role, and all this continuous Jewish drama is simply them, working out their plan for the alternative. (Which started off by orthodox seclusion, and now by Zionism)


----------



## matematik (Jun 16, 2021)

Gladius said:


> The Hebrew wiki in fact talks in great joy about the Jewish involvement in Holland which you say the Dutch one 'forgets'. (and local narrative in general does)
> I now recall a thread here on SH which described how the Dutch-Jews helped sponsoring and installing William of Orange in England (as part of the process to establish the Bank of England). On that part actually, the Hebrew sources try to downplay the identity of the Jewish involvement. (unlike in more 'popular' events, where they take pride in it)



Why are Jews not so proud of their involvement in England in comparison to Holland? Is it because the British Empire, City of London and Britain generally are widely disliked and criticised, so they want to distance themselves from involvement in anything "British"?

Whereas the Dutch are seen as liberal, tolerant and "cool" so the Jews see it as beneficial to their image to emphasise their involvement in Dutch history/society?


----------



## Gladius (Jun 16, 2021)

matematik said:


> Why are Jews not so proud of their involvement in England in comparison to Holland? Is it because the British Empire, City of London and Britain generally are widely disliked and criticised, so they want to distance themselves from involvement in anything "British"?
> 
> Whereas the Dutch are seen as liberal, tolerant and "cool" so the Jews see it as beneficial to their image to emphasise their involvement in Dutch history/society?


I believe it's a bit more about "risk management" of the narrative, a calculated move of where there's less chance of dirty things to surface. 
Plus GB has more "presence" in the global view, as an empire. All the more reason to distance a Jewish connection.


----------



## pispasana (Oct 1, 2021)

Gladius said:


> That's a mindblow.
> What if he did perform the Mecca ritual?
> We have disputes already from Fomenko about Mecca's identity.
> 
> ...


'Inverted pentagram' not such a nice symbol, horns of the devil, Inverted Pentagram


----------

