# The Future of Stolenhistory



## akistoy (Dec 21, 2020)

I have been an observer of both versions of stolen history for some years. I was always impressed with the high quality of the majority of posts. The amount of time and effort that people have put in to the research and presentation was always obvious. Whether people agreed or not with the topics, they deserved and usually received respect.

With time and progressively this has changed. Now a well researched and presented post can be dismissed by just an unconsidered opinion with nothing to back it or without even having read the OP, which is normally obvious by the nature of the comment. This shows a lack of respect and disrupts the development and flow of ideas in the thread and the consequence is the killing of the thread. This is, in my opinion, sometimes deliberate.

In my opinion discussion should always be constructive not destructive. The attitude “you are wrong and I am right” is destructive. To reach an accord or to build new concepts is to compare different information of equal quality and to work in a team to find the truth. This is constructive cooperation, not destructive competition or the imposition of ideas.

It’s one thing to go to the internet and find a video clip, some photos or an article and then post it in a ‘copy and paste’ way and another is researching a topic from different angles, comparing data, finding links and then presenting something new. The danger is that we end with a ‘copy and paste’ forum. All the good research that has made stolen history unique will simply disappear. Members of the forum, moderators and admins need to think seriously about this and decide want we really want, because what we really want is what we are going to get.


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## dreamtime (Dec 21, 2020)

Remember that 80% or so of the threads on the old forum were created by KD, or the team behind KD, and that he formatted every OP by others so that it met basic formatting standards.

We can create rules for formatting and quality that need to be met in order for a thread not to be locked, but I won't go through every thread to format it. We can also make it so that every OP needs to be whitelisted by a moderator before being unlocked for publication on the forum. What do you guys think?

Also reporting a post is very easy. When you see a post that does not belong to the forum, simply report it.

When you look through other forums, you will see that the quality on the old forum was very unusual, and the result of probably multiple people working full time behind the scenes. The downside was that due to the control by the admin, KD basically decided what could be talked about and what not, in practice he dominated the entire conversation. In our case, there is no direction given where things should head towards.

So here's my suggestion for new posting rules:

when copying stuff from other websites, *always* put things in quotes. *Everything* that isn't written by you needs to be put in quotes.
OPs need to have a couple unique sentences, instead of only copying text and pictures from other websites
Centering images is mandatory
Resizing images so that they don't take up the entire screen is mandatory
Including images as previews is always better, except when you want to highlight something in your text
New OPs go into an approval queue. In case these requirements are not met, a new thread will not be approved of
*Update*: As a test, we now put every new thread by a member that does not have the trusted user-badge into approval queue. That means, all new threads need to be unlocked by a moderator before being published, except by those who have a trusted badge.

In case your thread does not meet the rules, you will be informed about the change you need to make in line with the rules.

The rules can be found here: Rules


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## JWW427 (Dec 21, 2020)

Agreed on all counts.


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## dreamtime (Dec 21, 2020)

Update: Now all new threads require approval, no matter whether a member is new or trusted. Will see how it goes.

We also have the following notice in place so that users posting a new thread will be aware of the rules:



> Attention: In order to preserve the high quality of discussion, we will start to enforce basic rules for posting new threads. *Be aware of the formatting rules before posting a new thread!* If you break one of the rules, your thread will be not be published until your post meets the criteria.


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## Safranek (Dec 21, 2020)

Great thread. I guess there are a few of us here who have had this cross our minds lately.

The best way to kill a forum is to overburden it with new users posting new content that is not on par with the quality of content of objective and studious researchers. Not every thread has to be a 6 part series but we should at least get a solid foundation in the first post. (Yes, the KD posts are a great example.)

I also agree that the rules should be STRICT and THOROUGH. I'm sure they will evolve to meet the forum's needs as long as we (admins and users) are diligent about it.


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## davtash (Dec 22, 2020)

Safranek said:


> Great thread. I guess there are a few of us here who have had this cross our minds lately.
> 
> The best way to kill a forum is to overburden it with new users posting new content that is not on par with the quality of content of objective and studious researchers. Not every thread has to be a 6 part series but we should at least get a solid foundation in the first post. (Yes, the KD posts are a great example.)
> 
> I also agree that the rules should be STRICT and THOROUGH. I'm sure they will evolve to meet the forum's needs as long as we (admins and users) are diligent about it.


Also no need for flippant comments like have a drink or a mulled wine dont help


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## luddite (Dec 22, 2020)

Safranek said:


> The best way to kill a forum is to overburden it with new users posting new content that is not on par with the quality of content of objective and studious researchers



Very informative link: COINTELPRO Techniques for Dilution, Misdirection and Control of an Internet Forum


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## akistoy (Dec 22, 2020)

@dreamtime I would like to express my deep respect for the creation of this new forum. I know by experience how difficult it can be bear the burden of responsibility when so many people are relying on you. The purpose of the OP was not to attack the rules and guidelines of the forum, but to call for the respect and common sense of all the members and staff of this great place.

The main point of my post was regarding the quality of the *content* and the *comments* rather than the appearance. However, as the OP has been deviated, I will go with the flow.



dreamtime said:


> OPs need to have a couple unique sentences, instead of only copying text and pictures from other websites



Do we assume that a ‘copy & paste’ OP with a couple of sentences is considered a well researched, quality topic for this forum? This is social media standard, so is that what stolenhistory is going to become?

There are many good quality posts in this forum that have been vandalised and deviated from the issues in the OP. I would respectfully ask for a review of these old posts and a clean-up because all of the irrelevant comments, personal agendas, attacks and vendettas get people bored and they then abandon the thread rather than go on with the research and making what could be a valuable contribution. All the offensive and disruptive posts that have deviated the flow of the OP by users who have been banned should be deleted or the damage they have done will be working against the forum forever.



dreamtime said:


> Also reporting a post is very easy. When you see a post that does not belong to the forum, simply report it.



I would have pressed the Report option every time I saw an abuse in a post, but seeing that the moderatorts allow it by doing nothing, I didn’t think that I was going to be listened to. As an example, this post
Scottish history, part of the persecution
which I think was the member’s first post, is just one that has been vandalised by a person who has only recently been banned. I cannot understand how it has taken so many weeks for the moderators to act when it was not only this post that was affected, but many others all around the forum. The longer these issues are allowed to go on, the less likely people are to Report them because they think the moderators are OK with it. I could have pressed Report about 9 times in this thread.

For that, this method of putting the responsibility for moderating posts and comments on to the users clearly hasn’t been working.


luddite said:


> Safranek said:
> 
> 
> > The best way to kill a forum is to overburden it with new users posting new content that is not on par with the quality of content of objective and studious researchers
> ...



I agree, I believe this forum has been and is being attacked in exactly this manner.


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## dreamtime (Dec 22, 2020)

@akistoy the rules set a minimum standard, not the ideal. No one is prevented from contributing well-researched posts, and those can be featured at the front-page for increased exposure. Naturally there are threads with lower quality, but a thread is not only defined by the quality of the OP, but also by the discussion.

The scotish thread looks ok to me. We may delete the posts by the banned users and it's replies, but it seems the discussion continued in a productive manner.


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## Felix Noille (Dec 22, 2020)

dreamtime said:


> Naturally there are threads with lower quality, but a thread is not only defined by the quality of the OP, but also by the discussion.



I think that was the main point of the OP actually, unless I'm reading it wrong.

I'm intrigued by the mention of "the team behind KD" and 



dreamtime said:


> the [result of] probably multiple people working full time behind the scenes. The downside was that due to the control by the admin, KD basically decided what could be talked about and what not, in practice he dominated the entire conversation. In our case, there is no direction given where things should head towards.



Not so long ago this was considered to be useless speculation and at least one thread was locked that tried to deal with the subject. Are we now to assume that the SH1/KD issue has gone beyond 'useless speculation' and we are now allowed to talk about it? Is there anything else we should know about the KD situation?


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## dreamtime (Dec 22, 2020)

Felix Noille said:


> Not so long ago this was considered to be useless speculation and at least one thread was locked that tried to deal with the subject. Are we now to assume that the SH1/KD issue has gone beyond 'useless speculation' and we are now allowed to talk about it? Is there anything else we should know about the KD situation?



There's still this thread open for discussing things: Is Korben Dallas Back?

With baseless speculation I didn't mean not speculating, but looking for facts before jumping to conclusions. I don't know more than you, but nowadays I tend to think there was a group involved. Note that above I said "probable".


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## Safranek (Dec 22, 2020)

Felix Noille said:


> dreamtime said:
> 
> 
> > Naturally there are threads with lower quality, but a thread is not only defined by the quality of the OP, but also by the discussion.
> ...



It sounds so.... discomforting, the way you stated that "_we are now *allowed* to talk about it_".

I always thought we were not only allowed but able to talk about it. See my various posts on it in the thread dreamtime posted. Nobody told me I can't talk about it (not one admin - publicly or privately), except for one comment saying I shouldn't talk about it, but I refuted that. The only reason I stopped talking about it was because I didn't see others show interest in investigating the matter further and although I'm very curious about the possibilities/probabilities, I wasn't inspired to hammer the point any further based on only a few likes on a couple of comments.

The reason I wanted to deal with the issue fully is not just out of curiosity but to get a grasp on exactly what methods were used, for what purpose, by whom, and most important of all, why it was ended the way it was.

It was either controlled opposition from the start, or taken over when it became too popular. In either case, nobody will come out and claim either. The KD_1.0 communication is highly suspicious, especially since it wasn't backed by any action or resolution.

Have we heard ANYTHING from 'KD' since 'he' last made that post and wrote to the admins? My guess would be no, because I assume at least the trusted users would have heard about it. Right guys? 

But,

The REAL issue we SHOULD talk about is this (since it concerns the future of this site);

My feeling is that this site is NOT controlled opposition, otherwise why take the trouble to put the site back up and organize it again?

However,

Given that many of credible former member and researchers are back and contributing content, its only a matter of time before various methods will be employed to disrupt the operation of this site.

The question is;

What are we going to do about it, how will we handle it? And I say WE, because most of us who are sincere in our search for truth (admins and users alike) like this place and we would like it to continue and be a shining light for truth and objectivity in a world slowly slipping into darkness.


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## 1TruthSeeker (Dec 22, 2020)

I am new to this forum, however, I have been a long time lurker of the .org site. I have been very busy lately and hadn’t looked at the site in a while. Recently I got some time and checked on the .org site only to discover it was now something else. Confused, I did a search and found it on .net. Now, I have no idea what happened to the .org site. From this post it sounds like something went down with the KD dude who was a heavy contributor. It also concerns me that I am getting the censored vibe going here. Am I wrong? I hope I am wrong.

Is there a post somewhere that I can be directed to that can give me the gist of what went down?

Thanks!


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## dreamtime (Dec 22, 2020)

1TruthSeeker said:


> Is there a post somewhere that I can be directed to that can give me the gist of what went down?



https://stolenhistory.net/threads/welcome-to-the-new-stolenhistory-forum.6/
People can write about whatever they want. We are mostly concerned with netiquette and formatting, and a basic standard for quality - we expext people to put some effort into how they present things when publishing a new article/OP.

Welcome, by the way!


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## 1TruthSeeker (Dec 22, 2020)

dreamtime said:


> 1TruthSeeker said:
> 
> 
> > Is there a post somewhere that I can be directed to that can give me the gist of what went down?
> ...



Wow! I had no idea that happened. How shockingly disappointing. I hope people save their awesome work in documents on their own computers, just in case. So much hard work went into the posts, this makes me sad. I didn't realize it had been that long since I checked in with the forum. 

I always wondered about the KD dude, he gave me the feeling that he was the forum controller. I guess he was too, just not how I thought. Thanks for the link to get me caught up.


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## Clown Of God (Dec 23, 2020)

Original SH lead and heavy moderated by KD ( for better or worse/to each one his own) had in my view,  more posts that where focused and geared toward presenting and sharing discoveries/anomaly’s.They usually most often lead to open discussion where members would and could speculate together about the anomaly’s and discoveries. Usually generating the feeling of seeking the forums participation in helping to unravel the mysteries or weirdness.Which probably to many members generated a general feeling of “we are all here in the same boat, looking for answers.”No of us have the whole picture..”

 While here, again for the better or worse/ up to the individual. There are more posts of the nature “I have read and studied so many texts, books and what not..I have figured it all out..Now let me teach you something...and I really do not like my conclusions to be questioned...”threads.

If it is a forum open for discussion, which it seems to be. Then individuals who presents their conclusions and assumptions, should at least be ready for criticism and having their assumptions and conclusions questioned.
Sure the criticism should be delivered in a respectful manner. But there will usually be an amount of friction in such endeavors.Many are the people who are not particularly fond of having their assumptions and conclusions questioned...


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## luddite (Jan 3, 2021)

Safranek said:


> Given that many of credible former member and researchers are back and contributing content, its only a matter of time before various methods will be employed to disrupt the operation of this site.
> 
> The question is;
> 
> What are we going to do about it, how will we handle it? And I say WE, because most of us who are sincere in our search for truth (admins and users alike) like this place and we would like it to continue and be a shining light for truth and objectivity in a world slowly slipping into darkness.


We now have a solid team and backups. The server can be rebuilt from scratch easily with next to zero data loss. It would only take a couple of hours.


Safranek said:


> controlled opposition,


I wish we were sometimes because at least they would have to pay us right? ?


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## akistoy (Jan 3, 2021)

This thread is a perfect example of all that is wrong with this forum, in my opinion and with respect.

To begin with, the OP was derailed and more or less hijacked by dreamtime. The emphasis was placed upon the correct formatting of posts rather than the nature and quality of subjects and discussions inside them. The issue of KD and SH1 being a team was introduced which has no relevance to the OP.

One user used this thread to make a personal complaint about one specific comment he took as ‘flippancy’ in an unrelated thread.

Then a new member posted a question that was totally unrelated to the OP. Dreamtime responded to it and that provoked another unrelated response. Who should this be reported to?

Another member took the opportunity to post another attack in a personal vendetta and even a moderator gave it a ‘Like’.



Clown Of God said:


> individuals who presents their conclusions and assumptions, should at least be ready for criticism and having their assumptions and conclusions questioned.



This works both ways. Individuals whose only contribution to the forum is the criticism of other peoples conclusions and assumptions should at least be ready to have their own preconceived conceptions challenged.

As for this “comment,” if it can even be dignified with that name:



WorldWar1812 said:


> The Man Machine, Machine, Machine, Machine, Machine, Machine, Machine, Machine.
> 
> 
> _View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvIg0pFYaSo_
> ...




This is disgraceful. Even an administrator, part of “the solid team”, has posted immediately after this without taking any action or even making any comment.



dreamtime said:


> People can write about whatever they want. We are mostly concerned with netiquette and formatting, and a basic standard for quality - we expext people to put some effort into how they present things when publishing a new article/OP.



This concern with ‘netiquette’, formatting and a basic 2 sentences for ‘copy & paste’ posts will not save this forum. Its important not to confuse freedom of expression with arrogance, sarcasm, lack of respect and flooding a thread with junk. Lately there is an epidemic of ego inside threads which is always destructive and never constructive because as dreamtime says “_a thread is not only defined by the quality of the OP, but also by the discussion._”

Random examples:

_"This post may require you to do a little research yourself, as I refuse to 'spoon-feed' people in this genre. That said, I will post a few 'instructions' so you can double-check what I am about to tell you." _From here

_"The answer to this question can be found in my previous comment. I will not repeat the answer, but only provide a link to that comment: The Great Tataria
The answer is contained in the first paragraph. Please re-read my answer more carefully."_ From here (please read thread to understand that the question was not answered).

_"as most people here already know I've run a thread for three years on another forum delving into the actual physics and materials used to create man made UFO's an have done nothing but tirelessly work to prove that fact and have spent countless hours writing on this very subject. So what you've done by saying that is more than insulting and is apparently an attempt to destroy the image I've worked tirelessly to create about myself" _From here

_"It turns out there is a very precise reason why December 2019 was chosen as the date to bring to the public's attention the Covid-19 epidemic.

It is your job to find out exactly why, because the answer will shine a light on everything you ever wanted to know about history and the universe."_ From here



Safranek said:


> The best way to kill a forum is to overburden it with new users posting new content that is not on par with the quality of content of objective and studious researchers.



The quantity and size of posts from newer members should be an indicator that is monitored.

Unless administrators/moderators have time to actually read all of the comments and posts then they will never be aware of whats happening. There is so much repetition of topics. Relying on members to report comments and posts obviously doesnt work. Even with the new rules of posting and the approval system in place, an OP was approved without containing one original sentence and another just days ago with images that are not centred. In other forums they assign moderators to specific sub-forums.



Safranek said:


> Given that many of credible former member and researchers are back and contributing content, its only a matter of time before various methods will be employed to disrupt the operation of this site.



I have found out that one “credible former member and researcher” *Felix Noille, has left the forum*. That is a great loss. Unless the issues above are addressed then Im sure more members will abandon ship, like Felix.

If this thread illustrates the future of Stolenhistory.net I dont want any part of it.


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## dreamtime (Jan 3, 2021)

akistoy said:


> an OP was approved without containing one original sentence and another just days ago with images that are not centred.



can you link to both threads, please?


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## akistoy (Jan 3, 2021)

dreamtime said:


> akistoy said:
> 
> 
> > an OP was approved without containing one original sentence and another just days ago with images that are not centred.
> ...



Reported and corrected:
https://stolenhistory.net/threads/h-g-wells-dystopic-vision-and-grand-reset.3871/post-37150
I think the other was this, but it was edited today so I cannot be 100% sure.
https://stolenhistory.net/threads/oera-linda-the-deluge-book.3856/


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## Safranek (Jan 4, 2021)

akistoy said:


> This thread is a perfect example of all that is wrong with this forum, in my opinion and with respect.
> 
> To begin with, the OP was derailed and more or less hijacked by dreamtime. The emphasis was placed upon the correct formatting of posts rather than the nature and quality of subjects and discussions inside them. The issue of KD and SH1 being a team was introduced which has no relevance to the OP.
> 
> ...




Firstly, let me say that the OP is great and has the most likes of any posted lately. Thereby, we can establish that MANY users find the future of this site important and will do their bit to try and ensure its integrity.

What you did well:
Brought up key points to consider and act upon to improve the forum content and user conduct.

What you didn't do:
Emphasize the key points you would like to discuss and specify guidelines regarding the discussion.

You see, its not enough just to state a purpose, as you can see without clear definitions of the conduct to get to that purpose, you leave the thread open to others' interpretation. (This is why contracts always start with 'Definitions', to avoid any misunderstanding.)

And here are some examples of interpretation:

As the past is unavoidably connected to the future, the comment you brought up by *Felix* regarding the past (KD) obviously didn't seem unrelated to the site's future, and had dreamtime or myself thought so, we would have responded differently.

The davtash post you're referring to also pertains to the site's future as you stated in the OP that _"In my opinion discussion should always be constructive not destructive. " _He was emphasizing that sarcastic humor is destructive.

Regarding dreamtime 'derailing' the thread, I think that in all fairness you should reconsider that statement. I read through the posts to try and get a fair assessment and I see the sequence as follows;

1. You make a post for the improvement of the forum. (Standards, etiquette, etc.) The post is welcomed by many.

2. A mod (dreamtime) responds with ideas to address some of the valid issues you brought up. The post is agreed on by many, including yourself. He also stated "_@akistoy the rules set a minimum standard, not the ideal." _indicating that its a start.

3. davtash comments regarding unnecessary sarcasm. (valid point)

4. You make another respectful post clarifying the main purpose of the OP:
_"The main point of my post was regarding the quality of the *content* and the *comments* rather than the appearance. However, as the OP has been deviated, I will go with the flow" _

The problem with this clarification is that it should have been in the OP, with some guidelines for responses added. Do you think having done this might have helped avoid this discussion?

5. 1TruthSeeker inquires about SH1, dreamtime directs to relevant thread.

6. ClownOfGod posts regarding user conduct (Relevant to topic)

7. WorldWar1812 post:  WTF ?

8. Luddite post (Server improvements - Free)

9. Your post prompting this reply.

While many of your examples are valid points, the following should be considered.

Its holiday season and many of us have family programs, don't have as much time as we'd like to read and research.

There is a considerably amount of work in building, maintaining, updating a site like this, and despite (as luddite mentioned) nobody being paid for doing any of this, everyone is doing what they can to continue to improve the site and make it better for all users.

Regarding reporting posts, this is an absolutely necessary task must be shared out of common interest. There are a lot of intelligent members here, I've seen many examples of users commenting on forum conduct to try and bring relevance and fairness to posts.




akistoy said:


> I have found out that one “credible former member and researcher” *Felix Noille, has left the forum*. That is a great loss. Unless the issues above are addressed then Im sure more members will abandon ship, like Felix.
> 
> If this thread illustrates the future of Stolenhistory.net I dont want any part of it.



Finally, I hope you stay a part of it.

A few of us (admins, mods) have reached out to Felix regarding his departure. We're still hoping for a change of heart on his behalf. We share your sentiment, he's not just one of* your* favorite posters.

I don't think this thread illustrated the future of this site in a negative sense. If we work together to resolve our 'differences' (which sometimes arise from thoughtlessness and misunderstanding) through tolerance and keeping respectful, civil discourse, there's no reason for any grudges to be held toward each other.

We may have disagreement on one topic but agree on another. We may change our mind anytime as we encounter new research. We may be less patient, more stressful, more tired, etc. on given days and make 'mistakes' in the way we conduct ourselves (not just on this forum but in life in general). Its not the mistakes we should be emphasizing but the overall conduct of the individual and the strive for improvement.

Having said all that, I wish everyone a Happy New Year! Let's see what the future brings and what we can do about it.


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## 6079SmithW (Jan 4, 2021)

I think a pay wall would help.

Not a big one, a dollar a month is affordable to anyone surely.

Would keep the cyber riffraff from posting and stop the wild derailing and trolls.

Anyone could read the site, but to post you have to purchase your membership


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## luddite (Jan 4, 2021)

6079SmithW said:


> I think a pay wall would help.
> 
> Not a big one, a dollar a month is affordable to anyone surely.
> 
> ...


Does anyone know if this path has been implemented on any site and what was the effect of it? Did the site prosper, implode? No change?


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## dreamtime (Jan 4, 2021)

I think a better option would be to start with a paid premium life-time membership for a one-time payment of something like 20$. Monthly payments would annoy me personally. Premium members get the trusted status automatically. And then for example we start a sub-forum for trusted members only, or one for Patrons only, or both. Afaik, Forum usually don't work if everyone has to pay. Many people won't pay simply because they want to stay anonymous.

*Edit*: See here for upgrade to premium: https://stolenhistory.net/account/upgrades


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## akistoy (Jan 4, 2021)

Before I reply to Safraneks forensic autopsy of my OP and get distracted by things that are trivial, I would like to make it clear that it does not matter who interpreted what in what way or if my OP should have included a legal contract for replies, *the issues are still there*.

The rest of this comment is just a distraction from what is written in the previous paragraph as it was meant to be.



Safranek said:


> What you didn't do:
> Emphasize the key points you would like to discuss and specify guidelines regarding the discussion.



Even so:



Safranek said:


> Great thread. I guess there are a few of us here who have had this cross our minds lately.
> 
> The best way to kill a forum is to overburden it with new users posting new content that is not on par with the quality of content of objective and studious researchers. Not every thread has to be a 6 part series but we should at least get a solid foundation in the first post.



You understood what I meant perfectly then, before you became a Moderator. ‘If You Want to Test a Man’s Character, Give Him Power’



Safranek said:


> You see, its not enough just to state a purpose, as you can see without clear definitions of the conduct to get to that purpose, you leave the thread open to others' interpretation. (This is why contracts always start with 'Definitions', to avoid any misunderstanding.)



(I dont understand what you are saying very well). But copy & paste videos with 2 sentences are fine? Show me a recent thread on SH that starts with these clearly defined ‘Definitions’. I hope there is someone left in this forum to remind you of this when you make your first post.



Safranek said:


> As the past is unavoidably connected to the future, the comment you brought up by *Felix* regarding the past (KD) obviously didn't seem unrelated to the site's future, and had dreamtime or myself thought so, we would have responded differently.



*It was not me *who brought up the comment by Felix. It was dreamtime here and then also *you* here. So, what would you have responded differently to? Yourselves?



Safranek said:


> He was emphasizing that sarcastic humor is destructive.



No. He was airing a personal grievance. I remember seeing the comment he made in the original thread here. I thought it was humorous as did many other people. But instead of telling people that he was offended and meant the comment seriously, he came to this thread to complain about it. As you said “without clear definitions of the conduct to get to that purpose, you leave the thread (or comment) open to others' interpretation.” Also, it has nothing to do with formatting or centring images, so at least he understood the OP.



Safranek said:


> He also stated "_@akistoy the rules set a minimum standard, not the ideal." _indicating that its a start.



Again, “without clear definitions of the conduct to get to that purpose, you leave the thread (or comment) open to others' interpretation.” How do you interpret that as meaning its a start?



Safranek said:


> 4. You make another respectful post clarifying the main purpose of the OP:
> _"The main point of my post was regarding the quality of the *content* and the *comments* rather than the appearance. However, as the OP has been deviated, I will go with the flow" _
> 
> The problem with this clarification is that it should have been in the OP, with some guidelines for responses added. Do you think having done this might have helped avoid this discussion?



It was in the OP. Even you saw it before you became a Moderator as demonstrated above.

Also:


Felix Noille said:


> dreamtime said:
> 
> 
> > Naturally there are threads with lower quality, but a thread is not only defined by the quality of the OP, but also by the discussion.
> ...



Do you think reading the OP and your own response more carefully might have avoided this discussion?



Safranek said:


> 5. 1TruthSeeker inquires about SH1, dreamtime directs to relevant thread.



How is that relevant to the OP? Mistakes are natural but it should have been rectified by moving those 3 comments to the Welcome Thread or Forum Help.



Safranek said:


> 6. ClownOfGod posts regarding user conduct (Relevant to topic)



Another personal issue. Also again it has nothing to do with formatting or centring images, so at least he understood the OP.



Safranek said:


> Its holiday season and many of us have family programs, don't have as much time as we'd like to read and research.



If a moderator approves a post it is reasonable to assume he has read it first.



Safranek said:


> Regarding reporting posts, this is an absolutely necessary task must be shared out of common interest. There are a lot of intelligent members here, I've seen many examples of users commenting on forum conduct to try and bring relevance and fairness to posts.



It doesnt work. It has not been working and will never work meanwhile “users commenting on forum conduct to try and bring relevance and fairness to posts” are usually the ones who get moderated and also abused by others. Its these “intelligent members” who are exactly the ones who will leave.



dreamtime said:


> akistoy said:
> 
> 
> > an OP was approved without containing one original sentence and another just days ago with images that are not centred.
> ...



What would have happened if I said to dreamtime


NigeWz said:


> do a little research yourself, as I refuse to 'spoon-feed' people



If some members feel “it is your job to find out” about their own posts, how will they do any reporting when its the moderators work?

The only solutions offered, relying on users to report posts, all being better human beings and paying money to be a Trusted Member, are again avoiding the issues and are not going to work but might be profitable and fix the complaint about the administrators and moderators not getting paid.

I am deleting my account today. It will take 14 days to be deleted and even if it looks like I am still a member during that time I am not going to put any more attention on this forum. I will not be replying to any more of this nonsense. I realise I have been wasting my time.


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## dreamtime (Jan 4, 2021)

akistoy said:


> I am deleting my account today. It will take 14 days to be deleted and even if it looks like I am still a member during that time I am not going to put any more attention on this forum. I will not be replying to any more of this nonsense. I realise I have been wasting my time.



Write me a PM and I will delete it immediately, if you want.

If you have anything constructive to add, you are free to start a new thread with a specific list of suggestions.

I don't see what you assert, in my view most of the discussions in this forum are constructive, and from all other forums I frequently participate in, this one is by far the most moderated one. I already said it before, you can't compare this forum with stolenhistory.org. The latter banned countlesss users from participating (many users who registered here reported they had been banned on the old forum without a reason provided), which means the forum was practically censored. I agree that the discussions were cleaner, but this is not an ideal in my view, since you overlook what was required to achive this apparent harmony.

What is happening in this forum is actually organic, and part of that will appear as a bit chaotic, and of course some things need to be deleted. But I think we are doing ok with this, and for those things that do slip through, people can click on the "Report" button. This takes 10 seconds for you. Reading through the entire content produced on the forum is a full-time job for a single person and you can't expect we immediately see everything. This is a community-driven project, and everyone including you is responsible for making it a great place.

Here's a list of things we have changed since the beginning of this thread:

- A new additional moderator
- formatting rules displayed more prominently
- threads need to be approved
- Reports are public for registered members which creates more transparancy on warnings and reports

I think these are very good steps towards making sure the forum stays a place where we can all come together to search for truth.

If you have anything else you want to see when it comes to moderation, please add a specific suggestion, not commonplace statements.


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## Safranek (Jan 4, 2021)

akistoy said:


> Before I reply to Safraneks forensic autopsy of my OP and get distracted by things that are trivial, I would like to make it clear that it does not matter who interpreted what in what way or if my OP should have included a legal contract for replies, *the issues are still there*.
> 
> The rest of this comment is just a distraction from what is written in the previous paragraph as it was meant to be.
> 
> ...



Well, that is a very angry post. You have fallen prey to the very things you have complained about others doing.

I gave you one suggestion, it wasn't even criticism - *define your purpose clearly* and *set guidelines* if you want *strict adherence* to your thread.

The reason others don't put guidelines is because they are more flexible regarding how loosely the posters stick to the OP. Its subjective and based on personal opinion.

Even on SH1 there were regular warnings to get back on topic. This is unavoidable as people get excited, have thoughts and ideas, the mind can stray off topic, the hand follows.  The owner of the thread can request mods to delete content accordingly.



akistoy said:


> You understood what I meant perfectly then, before you became a Moderator. ‘If You Want to Test a Man’s Character, Give Him Power’



That is uncalled-for. My views haven't changed. What you posted by me still stands. 

_More power_. This is truly what you think of when you think moderator or administrator? 

True, that this is the case when you are working in the corporations of the PTB, but here and at other REAL seeker sites, moderator/administrator means:

_guys dedicated to uncover truth while giving their time and effort freely without keeping count._

I didn't just become a moderator. I've been moderating all my life among acquaintances, friends and family trying to be objective without taking sides. I just accepted the role here to be formally 'classified' as such, but if you read my posts, I've always spoken up when things aren't on the up and up.

I'm disappointed that you've become unable to state your points, counter-arguments respectfully, and have gone against the very standards you proclaim to work toward. All things (almost) can be resolved with honesty, tolerance and respect, but lacking these, there's not much hope for a constructive resolution.

You can quit the forum as you stated in your last line or, you can sleep on it, think about it objectively with a clear head, and if you can entertain the thought even briefly that you could have handled this whole recourse better, steering it to a positive outcome, then you just may decide this is not such a bad place after all and you might want to stay, read, post and share. 

If you stand by your decision, I wish you good luck in your research and hope you find a place where you can share it according to your expectations.


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## Myrrinda (Jan 4, 2021)

A forum is as alive as people in it and some anecdote here and there helps the users to get to know each other better, they tell about their life and experiences and give advice, and I personally would not want to miss it!

What annoys me is things like _i would know more about this topic but you people don't roll out a red carpet for me so I keep it all to myself while bragging about how much I could have told you and now it's your fault that I don't post my information blablaba_

sorry I forgot the name of the user and even the thread it was in, because I can't stand this kind of attitude. THAT is something I as a not-so-often contributing member with a leaning to personal anecdotes find annoying in particular. I get the point of this discussion, yes, and I really hope everything gets solved to everyone's satisfaction, and I also hope you don't mind my little comments (believe me, I restrain myself, I could write more often but I don't) but I hope I brought attention to something that really fucks up threads, people who claim to know something and then don't tell it saying the other users don't deserve to know it. If I find it again I will report it.

Edit: Admins and mods doing a really good job here! Thank you all!


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## Herrschaft (Apr 22, 2021)

When the thread is under approval and waiting doing something else, and one returns to the website to see whether it was successful or not, will be this message "Oops! We ran into some problems. The requested thread (sic) could not be loaded" a token of moderation disapproval?


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## dreamtime (Apr 22, 2021)

Herrschaft said:


> When the thread is under approval and waiting doing something else, and one returns to the website to see whether it was successful or not, will be this message "Oops! We ran into some problems. The requested thread (sic) could not be loaded" a token of moderation disapproval?



Your thread doesnt meet our standards, I will message you later explaining the Details and what you need to change.


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