# The Carthaginian Settlement in the Americas



## Mabzynn (Apr 26, 2021)

*Description of the Ruins of an Ancient City: 
Discovered Near Palenque 1822*

_SOURCE_​
It discusses the transport of a Carthaginian colony to the Americas pre-dating the Columbus narrative.


A more complete story on the early travels to the Americas and the secret colony established there as a safe haven.




Who were the Moors?  (Medes, Persians, and Armenians that married Lybian women)


The first settlement "Atlantis" was on the island of Hispaniola.


First colony sent by Carthaginians happened prior to the 1st Punic War.  They learned of America from Votan.  The settlement was reinforced overtime by Carthaginians fleeing to the Americas after losses in war.  They then went on to gain influence in the Americas.  They forced an alliance with the locals to form the Kingdom of Amaquemecan.  The "Carthaginian" Senate made decrees attempting to call back subjects from the Americas.



Provides the date of Votan's arrival as 6 years before the 1st Punic War so the the first Carthaginian settlement to the Americas had to occur shortly after that.  It also discusses the Carthaginian Senate's decree where it attempted to recall its American subjects as happening 34 years before the destruction of Carthage.



So, it appears that there was a Carthaginian Empire in the Americas that became quite successful after abandoning the Old World.





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## BStankman (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: BStankmanDate: 2020-02-25 10:05:46Reaction Score: 16


@*Mabzynn*

You have been starting some really excellent threads lately.  I apologize for not contributing more to them.  They just lead me to really deep rabbit holes.

Have you read this book?  AmericanAntiquities1834JosiahPriest
On page 118 is a comparison of Palenque glyphs and Lybian. 



He also quotes the same Punic Calmet on page 295.




For me, I don't think it is a coincidence at all that the first US foreign war was on the shores of Tripoli. 
Carthage Moor had a claim to North America, and Jefferson refused to pay tribute.
There may be some clues there about the real struggle for independence.  For the new nation and possible a personal one for Jefferson.
A North American version of the reconquesta.


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## Mabzynn (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: MabzynnDate: 2020-02-25 10:25:32Reaction Score: 15


I had not but I will now... Makes Liberia much more interesting as well.

From a historical context I find it very hard to square away that Carthage and Rome were essentially the same utilizing a Senate.  There's old references to the incredible "stately" architecture of the Carthaginians.  Atilla sacking Italy and Venice being built during his reign in older sources speaks heavily to this.

A major difference was Carthage expanded it's empire through colonies of mercantilism with "protections" from abroad.  This description fits early America much more perfectly than the excepted version.  It just doesn't make sense that New Spain was conquered so quickly yet areas 5 hours from the Eastern coast in North America were not "colonized" heavily until the mid to late 1800s.  Whoever or whatever was in North America took a very long time to conquer and "re-educate." What really bums me out about it all is in the first book I posted they discuss going around and burning all the books related to Votan's history in the center of towns.

The Armenians need to be looked at much more heavily as well.  You have a group of Armenian Monks heading east to get to Cathay.  Now there's Armenians heading West to get to the Americas through Carthage.  Strangely enough a whole bunch of Armenians got culled at the turn of the 20th century by "Turkic" peoples.

From that book you posted....  Provides the names of the Americans that were descendants of Atlantis after the flood that derived from Taurics, Berbers, Shelluh, Showiah in North Africa including Cherokees.

_@BStankman_ it must also be a coincidence that the line preceding shores of Tripoli in the Marine Hymn is "From the Halls of Montezuma - To the shores of Tripoli."  It's like the Marines were telling us something all along...

*The Student's Cyclopaedia: A Ready Reference Library for School  - 1895*


SOURCE

*An universal history: from the earliest accounts to the present time, Volume 38*

SOURCE


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: thousandcutsDate: 2020-03-04 02:19:31Reaction Score: 1


Heres a map shot to ponder on. The blue glyph has Mediterranean features. Don't know what to think about the rest.


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## Felix Noille (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: FelixnoilleDate: 2020-03-10 10:27:38Reaction Score: 1


I really need to study and digest this information when I get enough time to do it justice.

Excellent thread, many thanks


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## Mabzynn (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: MabzynnDate: 2020-03-10 11:41:24Reaction Score: 10




Felixnoille said:


> I really need to study and digest this information when I get enough time to do it justice.
> 
> Excellent thread, many thanks


In case anyone missed it in the Columbus thread just adding this information here as well:

Well, I find it a bit strange that a guy named Christopher Colonus supposedly found "havens" similar to that of Carthage and "named" the first port, Portus Carthaginis in South America. 

*The First Three English Books on America (?1511)-1555 A.D.*
SOURCE
It's constantly spoken of as just Carthago though... All before the city of Cartagena, Columbia was founded in 1533 (or ya know sailed into to find an abandoned city).


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## N.D. Magoo (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: N.D. MagooDate: 2020-04-08 17:32:35Reaction Score: 1


*Excerpt from: **https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Votan*

This includes the association of Votan with Palenque by Ramon de Ordoñez y Aguilar, a priest who had lived near the site and wrote one of the earliest descriptions of the ruins in 1773. Ordoñez apparently incorporated some of the information that had been collected earlier by Bishop Núñez de la Vega into a document called the _Probanza de Votan_. "This strange work contained some fragments from Ximénez and a confused account of Votan, culture hero of the Tzeltal people, who, according to Ordoñez, had built Palenque. Fantastic details described Votan's four trips back to the Middle East."[4] The Tzeltal are an ethnic group that occupies the region that includes Teopisca, Chiapas, about 113 km southeast of Palenque. In the late 17th century, two hundred Tzeltal families "of Votan's ancestry" are said to have been living in Comitlan.[2]

Assertion of a relationship between Votan and Odin is found in the work of the distinguished geographer Alexander von Humboldt, who wrote in _Vues des Cordillères_ (1810):



> We have fixed the special attention of our readers upon this Votan, or Wodan, an American who appears in the same family with the Wods or Odins of the Goths and of the people of Celtic origins. Since, according to the learned researches of Sir William Jones, Odin and Buddha are probably the same person, it is curious to see the names of _Bondvar_, _Wodansdag_, and _Votan_ designating in India, Scandinavia, and in Mexico the day of a brief period.[5]


In _Histoire des nations civilisées du Mexique et de l'Amérique Centrale_ (1857), Charles Étienne Brasseur de Bourbourg claimed Votan was an ancient Phoenician _legislateur_ who had migrated from the Middle East to the Maya area, defeated a race called the Quiname, built the city of Palenque, and established an empire called Xibalba that was postulated by Brasseur de Bourbourg to have once covered all of Mexico and part of the United States.

*This is a great topic and a rabbit hole that I've just begun to look at, but what immediately jumps out to me are the parallels between the Votan story with the Bock Saga and its depiction of Odin as a mortal man whose followers spread civilization around the world. Note that chronological numbers in the Bock Saga are even crazier than the those of mainstream history. Much like the Old Testament, the further you go back in time, dates become exaggerated in a near exponential fashion. It's almost as if the authors were trying to encode something else to future readers who can interpret it.

From: **http://www.nomind.me/08/bocksaga.html*

The revival of original Hiden (perverted to "heathen) culture envisioned and undertaken at the the original site of Hel 10,011 years ago, did not ultimately succeed as planned. It was a shock, following 50,000,000 years of evolution, for various brown, yellow, red and black Vaner to 9,011 years ago begin meeting distinctly arctical blonde, white-skinned, blue- or green-eyed Vaner coming from the north, often leading strange domesticated arctical animals, which had also evolved under the ice and had never before been seen by tropicals. Some additional white Aser and later Vaner were breaking with the reconstructed system in Hel and, taking their supporters with them, going their separate ways, creating systems of leaders and followers (abandoning the guidance of a shared system wherein all are equal) and establishing very different roles and agenda concerning human harmonization with - or abandonment of - Nature's Law and the guidance of Oden, which became mispronounced and misunderstood variously as Odin, Woden, and other degenerations of the original, and even worshipped as some kind of "god".

On noteworthy occasions, a few of these, under faulty guidance, allowed themselves to become worshipped as "superior" or "divine" beings, "demi-gods" or "gods", concepts foreign to the Väinämöinen system but ones that, along with beliefs, humans will kill and die for to this day.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: RecognitionDate: 2020-04-10 19:53:26Reaction Score: 5


“Cartagena” sounds a lot like Carthage, and Coiba could stand in for Colombia. Barranquilla is also similar to Beragua.Cartagena also has some starfort aspects, right angles built intothe landmass. Here’s a postcard of a “Roman” bridge, as well. 

Some roman style structures, as well. 

Then there is also Santiago de Cartagena



The ocean between Santiago de Cartagena and Cartagena, Colombia, is literally scooped out. Did Carthage in _@Mabzynn_  ’s OP go with it? Maybe there is a reason for the name of the island Isla de Tierra Bomba -“bomb land island”?



Then there are the aquaducts in Mexico:


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: AztectruthDate: 2020-04-11 02:20:51Reaction Score: 6


I've been researching a bit, and I really think the Phoenicians (Canaanites) once "ruled" the whole world, I mean, there is a lot of exact same style architecture all over the world with signs of the same type of deterioration, (similar to that of their Roman buddies) can someone explain this please?, who copied who?, the romans had Phoenician Architects working for them?, or they just based their works on Phoenician buildings?)  Anyway, going a little back in time, I came across this picture on the 'Physica Sacra' book, I just want you to judge for yourselves, and help me understand the correlations, again, English is not my native language, so I apologize in advance for the spelling mistakes:

Here we have, what according to the Physica Sacra, a Mytilaenorum, build by the Canaanites in my opinion, the book is in latin, so I didn't really understand very much of it, and I don't have much time right now to dig into google translator because of home office. (yes, they have a latin translator)


This was supposed to be after the flood events I think, if anyone can correct me I'll appreciate it. Now, I want you to look at the statue in the far back and help me identify this deity or whatever king this is:


Ok, now, what I was really looking forward to post, this image from the "Greater Temple" build by the Aztecs, now modern México City downtown:


Inside this type of structure, we have according to narrative, this place here in the below image:

Ishtar?, Celtic? Baal? Satyr?... Help me!!!!


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## Whitewave (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: whitewaveDate: 2020-04-11 05:10:16Reaction Score: 5




Aztectruth said:


> I've been researching a bit, and I really think the Phoenicians (Canaanites) once "ruled" the whole world, I mean, there is a lot of exact same style architecture all over the world with signs of the same type of deterioration, (similar to that of their Roman buddies) can someone explain this please?, who copied who?, the romans had Phoenician Architects working for them?, or they just based their works on Phoenician buildings?)  Anyway, going a little back in time, I came across this picture on the 'Physica Sacra' book, I just want you to judge for yourselves, and help me understand the correlations, again, English is not my native language, so I apologize in advance for the spelling mistakes:
> 
> Here we have, what according to the Physica Sacra, a Mytilaenorum, build by the Canaanites in my opinion, the book is in latin, so I didn't really understand very much of it, and I don't have much time right now to dig into google translator because of home office. (yes, they have a latin translator)
> 
> ...


Can't really answer most of your questions but as to who the guy is in the bottom pic, his name is on the bottom of the picture. In the Aztec religion, Huitzilopochtli (Classical Nahuatl: Huītzilōpōchtli [wiːt͡siloːˈpoːt͡ʃt͡ɬi], modern Nahuatl pronunciation is a deity of war, sun, human sacrifice, and the patron of the city of Tenochtitlan. He was also the national god of the Mexicas, also known as Aztecs, of Tenochtitlan. (Wiki)


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: PairAllelesDate: 2020-04-11 08:06:01Reaction Score: 1




Aztectruth said:


> Ishtar?, Celtic? Baal? Satyr?... Help me!!!!


offering this to help solve

if the hooves are cloven it is a she-goat, which is Capricorn ... if it has hooves like a ram it is a perversion (see goat of Mendes, which was actually a ram - Aries - worshipped in the Levant as a ram housed in the temple and celebrated as deity, but the texts called it a goat?) and contributes to the confusion around baphomet. the statue is interesting, the headdress with the feathers refers to the air sign of Aquarius which allows for communication on a frequency with the constellations of the zodiac, the stars on the ecliptic and this would represent the coming golden age centered in both NA and SA.

the part that piques my interest is the wings on the back would be referring to the air sign of Libra, cardinal heavens ... (wisdom of the constellations above the ecliptic, beyond the zodiac). I am not sure where the age of Libra would have been centered, but possibly some of the knowledge of the people of that age survived at the time when the statue was crafted. as usual, most of the statues and iconography are speaking of ages transitioning, elements connecting or one of the three stellar crosses connecting. so this appears to have two heaven sign symbols and one earth sign as primary features. don't know much about the staff or the branch which probably have meaning too. would be great to see the entire face of the shield

the wizards, script-writers aka priests and controllers ascribe powers to symbolism of statuary and iconography et al that often have simple yet powerful meaning(s) that the subconscious mind would intuit ... and instead the masses are given words from the pulpits with language that the conscious mind can comprehend but covers (govern etymology) the mind (ment) and confounds the inherent understanding. also, looks to be snakes on the facades of the mezzanine, symbols for hidden wisdom


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: AztectruthDate: 2020-04-11 21:52:55Reaction Score: 3




whitewave said:


> Can't really answer most of your questions but as to who the guy is in the bottom pic, his name is on the bottom of the picture. In the Aztec religion, Huitzilopochtli (Classical Nahuatl: Huītzilōpōchtli [wiːt͡siloːˈpoːt͡ʃt͡ɬi], modern Nahuatl pronunciation is a deity of war, sun, human sacrifice, and the patron of the city of Tenochtitlan. He was also the national god of the Mexicas, also known as Aztecs, of Tenochtitlan. (Wiki)


I really appreciate the response, the thing is I already knew this Aztec deity, the thing that is "itching" my head it's the fact that the structure made in the first picture (Supposedly Canaan), is similar to the "Greater Temple" in México, I mean, just to add up on the whole settlement of the Carthaginians in the Americas.


PairAlleles said:


> offering this to help solve
> 
> if the hooves are cloven it is a she-goat, which is Capricorn ... if it has hooves like a ram it is a perversion (see goat of Mendes, which was actually a ram - Aries - worshipped in the Levant as a ram housed in the temple and celebrated as deity, but the texts called it a goat?) and contributes to the confusion around baphomet. the statue is interesting, the headdress with the feathers refers to the air sign of Aquarius which allows for communication on a frequency with the constellations of the zodiac, the stars on the ecliptic and this would represent the coming golden age centered in both NA and SA.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I mean, the symbolism is everywhere and I guess is  our job to connect the dots, interesting information you provide, got to look more into the whole zodiac sign thing.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: ShemTovDate: 2020-04-12 11:29:12Reaction Score: 1




Aztectruth said:


> I've been researching a bit, and I really think the Phoenicians (Canaanites) once "ruled" the whole world, I mean, there is a lot of exact same style architecture all over the world with signs of the same type of deterioration, (similar to that of their Roman buddies) can someone explain this please?, who copied who?, the romans had Phoenician Architects working for them?, or they just based their works on Phoenician buildings?)  Anyway, going a little back in time, I came across this picture on the 'Physica Sacra' book, I just want you to judge for yourselves, and help me understand the correlations, again, English is not my native language, so I apologize in advance for the spelling mistakes:
> 
> Here we have, what according to the Physica Sacra, a Mytilaenorum, build by the Canaanites in my opinion, the book is in latin, so I didn't really understand very much of it, and I don't have much time right now to dig into google translator because of home office. (yes, they have a latin translator)
> 
> View attachment 44069


there was a temple of nemesis in downtown mytilene, lesbos, greece. it was a real happening place.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: AztectruthDate: 2020-04-13 18:16:12Reaction Score: 0




ShemTov said:


> there was a temple of nemesis in downtown mytilene, lesbos, greece. it was a real happening place.


Actually, I was looking into Mytilene, but I don't know why I didn't keep searching, this whole thread i s so interesting! Thanks for your response.


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## hopesksefall (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: hopesksefallDate: 2020-07-25 20:03:57Reaction Score: 1


_@Recognition_ One thing about the translation of “Isla de Tierra Bomba”. If the land was actually bombed or destroyed, it would be “Isla de la Tierra Bombardeado”. “Isla de Tierra Bomba” would be more like “Island of the Bomb Earth/Land/Dirt” or “Island of the Earth/Land/Dirt Bomb”.


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## Mabzynn (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: MabzynnDate: 2020-08-03 01:02:40Reaction Score: 8


A bit more:

*Chronicles of Border Warfare, Or, A History of the Settlement by the Whites, of North-western Virginia, and of the Indian Wars and Massacres in that Section of the State by Alexander Scott Withers -1895*

SOURCEOther interesting information from this book:




Huron (Great Lakes area) slave taken in war and seen in Tartary.


Florida woman captured and wed to a Tartar.


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