# 1.5 million people appeared in 18th Century America 'out of nowhere'.



## Felix Noille (Apr 26, 2021)

Whilst researching a different subject I came across something quite remarkable in Wikipedia, of all places. I have decided to post it separately, otherwise it would end up buried in a thread that tries to cover too many topics (again . It's from the Wikipedia page entitled:

*Demographic history of the United States*

“_From 1700 to 1775 between 400-500,000 Europeans immigrated, 90% being Scots, Scots-Irish, Irish, Germans and Huguenots. Only 45,000 English supposedly immigrated in the period 1701 to 1775, The figure of 45,000 has been questioned as a "mystery". These numbers do not include the 50,000-120,000 convicts transported, 33,000 of whom were English. Even the very high birth rate may not account for all of the nine-fold increase from 230,000 to 2.1 million (1700 to 1775).”_ _Source_

If you do the maths, it’s clear that such a massive increase in population wasn’t possible even if the colonists were at it like rabbits 24 hours a day.
(All the population figures are taken from the census data in the Wikipedia _Source _link.)

In 1700 the population was 250,888.
Add 500,000 European immigrants between 1700 and 1775.
Which gives 750,888.
Add 45,000 English immigrants between 1700 and 1775. (Even though they may have been included in the European figure above.)
Which gives 795,000.
Add the greatest estimate of transported convicts, which was 120,000.
The total these figures gives is 915,888.
Estimate the 1775 population figure as (1770+1780)/2=2,464,223
This means that 2,464,223-915888=*1,548,335 extra people* appeared in the American Colonies between 1701 and 1775 *who were not immigrants*. That’s an 856% increase in 74 years or two and a bit generations.
I would suggest that these additional people were as native as the 'Native Americans' who weren’t included in the census until 1860. In other words, _*the extra population was assimilated into the American Colonies from the civilisation that was already there*_.

[I thought this section of the forum would be the most appropriate place for this, but I may be wrong.]





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## Bunnyman (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: BunnymanDate: 2020-03-13 14:56:57Reaction Score: 1




> In other words, _*the extra population was assimilated into the American Colonies from the civilisation that was already there*_.


Is it valid to question the statistics in the first place? It's not like anything in the past, and especially population #, is objectively verifiable.


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2020-03-13 15:01:13Reaction Score: 7




Bunnyman said:


> Is it valid to question the statistics in the first place? It's not like anything in the past, and especially population #, is objectively verifiable.


It is a valid question, because it is presented to us as fact. The narrative does not state that it does not know. It states that ot does.

Based on these initial numbers they are able to adjust their numbers going forward in time. Eventually we end up with non-sense like this:

_World Expositions: Phenomenal Attendance?_


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: DrPaul RuthDate: 2020-03-13 15:41:59Reaction Score: 1


Given the objective difficulty of living conditions at the time, this increase appears to be outside the norm.


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2020-03-13 15:52:37Reaction Score: 6




DrPaul Ruth said:


> Given the objective difficulty of living conditions at the time, this increase appears to be outside the norm.


What makes you think that living conditions have anything to do with procreation? Look at the poorest countries of Africa. They multiply in great numbers as it stands. Which is interesting in itself, because the official narrative falls apart when we do consider Africa.

I agree with _@Felixnoille_. How else do we explain cities like Chicago, SF, etc?


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## Bunnyman (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: BunnymanDate: 2020-03-13 15:52:37Reaction Score: 7




> Given the objective difficulty of living conditions at the time, this increase appears to be outside the norm.


Even as we would know what the living conditions would have been like, I would say that your observation is the opposite of what we can verify today. Where more offspring is produced in less economically developed cultures (difficulty of living conditions).

KD pulled the trigger quicker....



> It is a valid question, because it is presented to us as fact.


I meant my question rhetorically. I am starting to feel that about everything presented as our past is a feeble layer of fantastical stories that start rippling and morphing as soon as you touch it.


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2020-03-13 16:37:30Reaction Score: 0


Well, where do we think the extra 1.5 mil came from?

Just like I said above, imho, there were millions of people here already, but for the sake of the discussion, and giving the official numbers a temporary benefit of a doubt... what conditions would need to be met for the narrative mentioned numbers to make sense?


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## Mabzynn (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: MabzynnDate: 2020-03-13 16:38:14Reaction Score: 6


I don't see what's so confusing.  The math checks out:

250,000 people in 1700 at 3% growth rate will produce a population of 2,660,222 by 1780.

This is without all your added immigrants.  I'd be more concerned with finding what killed 700,000+ (at a minimum... because if any of them start having kids it gets crazy quick... let's say you start in 1700 with 915,800 people you'd be closer to 10,000,000 by 1780).


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: DrPaul RuthDate: 2020-03-13 23:06:06Reaction Score: 10




KorbenDallas said:


> What makes you think that living conditions have anything to do with procreation? Look at the poorest countries of Africa. They multiply in great numbers as it stands. Which is interesting in itself, because the official narrative falls apart when we do consider Africa.
> 
> I agree with _@Felixnoille_. How else do we explain cities like Chicago, SF, etc?


I made a parallel based on similar conditions in about the same period in Northern Italy, where I live.
There were very poor people, very many died in the age group between 0 and 2 years.
The cemetery near my house in the 70s was almost half full of children's graves.
We have never had a real increase in population, except from the 30s and then 60s of the last century, in conjunction with better living conditions.
Starting from this situation with a typically European population, as the settlers in America were, it seems strange to me that there is a similar increase.


Bunnyman said:


> Even as we would know what the living conditions would have been like, I would say that your observation is the opposite of what we can verify today. Where more offspring is produced in less economically developed cultures (difficulty of living conditions).
> 
> KD pulled the trigger quicker....
> 
> I meant my question rhetorically. I am starting to feel that about everything presented as our past is a feeble layer of fantastical stories that start rippling and morphing as soon as you touch it.


I began to have this impression as a child, when I was walking around the historical centre of the cities, it seemed to me that there were too many buildings compared to the inhabitants.
Many buildings were and are empty, this seemed to me and it seems strange.
I don't think the sources on pre 1900 demographics are very reliable.


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## Felix Noille (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: FelixnoilleDate: 2020-03-15 11:52:47Reaction Score: 8




Mabzynn said:


> I don't see what's so confusing.  The math checks out:
> 
> 250,000 people in 1700 at 3% growth rate will produce a population of 2,660,222 by 1780.
> 
> This is without all your added immigrants.  I'd be more concerned with finding what killed 700,000+ (at a minimum... because if any of them start having kids it gets crazy quick... let's say you start in 1700 with 915,800 people you'd be closer to 10,000,000 by 1780).


You may well be absolutely right, who really knows. However, there is another way of analysing these numbers rather than by using a financial compound interest type calculation:

By 1775 the vast majority of the 1700 population will no longer have been around. Therefore the original *250,888* population will have had to replace itself with *1,548,335 *new people by 1775.
Obviously only females within the original population will have been capable of producing new people. In the absence of any real data, let’s assume a *50/50* split (which is probably unrealistic, but still), so *125,444* females in *1700*.
Not all of those females would have been capable of childbirth, so let’s assume *10%* were children and *10%* were past childbearing age (again probably too generous, but let’s go with it.) This leaves *100,356* females capable of childbirth.
It’s not possible to factor in the contribution made by the 500,000 immigrants as they didn’t arrive all at once, but sporadically over the 75 years. However, the generosity of the assumed number of females should more than account for it.
In order to have created *1,548,335* new souls in *75* years, every single one of the *100,356* females would need to have had _*16*_ direct _*living*_ descendants in *1775*. (If you increase the number of female children and females beyond childbearing age to 15% respectively, then that figure increases to 18 direct living descendants.)  
When she was 75, my own grandmother had 6 direct living descendants and she wasn’t living in the supposedly harsh, pioneering conditions of 18th century America. Perhaps this is why even the Wikipedophile author himself states “_Even the very high birth rate may not account for all of the nine-fold increase from 230,000 to 2.1 million (1700 to 1775).”_ _Source_


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## Worsaae (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: WorsaaeDate: 2020-03-15 15:47:44Reaction Score: 0


250.888 start population, evenly distributed from 0-39 years old.
Everyone dies at age 40 (for simplicity)
A female gets on average 3.5 children before dying at age 40.  
665,000 immigrants evenly distributed across 75 years, a boost of ~8,867 people / year.
The population will be 2,388,710 after 75 years.


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## Felix Noille (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: FelixnoilleDate: 2020-03-16 09:33:55Reaction Score: 7


I don't quite understand what's going on here. For once Wikipedia illustrates and highlights an anomaly in the official narrative, but members of this forum are going out of their way to show that it's perfectly normal, nothing to see here, the official narrative is correct, move along. So now *Wikipedia can *edit their entry to say that the nine-fold increase in population is totally legitimate, perhaps even an underestimation and *quote StolenHistory.org as its reference source! *


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## Bunnyman (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: BunnymanDate: 2020-03-16 11:19:09Reaction Score: 2




> I don't quite understand what's going on here.


Irrationality.... one of those things if feel constantly about me. We seem to live in a weird realm indeed.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: DrPaul RuthDate: 2020-03-16 13:38:30Reaction Score: 3




Bunnyman said:


> Irrationality.... one of those things if feel constantly about me. We seem to live in a weird realm indeed.


Yep , i think that the effect of tv,internet, web and modern mass media in general ,is lose of logic and percption of the Real in mind of people .
Men  are losing the ability to perceive the real world and this lack of perception affects even the highest brain capacities.
In a forest modern man could find a bigfoot a foot behind him and not notice anything.
I doubt whether such a man can think of history or philosophy.


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## Worsaae (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: WorsaaeDate: 2020-03-16 13:43:31Reaction Score: 0




Felixnoille said:


> I don't quite understand what's going on here. For once Wikipedia illustrates and highlights an anomaly in the official narrative, but members of this forum are going out of their way to show that it's perfectly normal, nothing to see here, the official narrative is correct, move along. So now *Wikipedia can *edit their entry to say that the nine-fold increase in population is totally legitimate, perhaps even an underestimation and *quote StolenHistory.org as its reference source! *


I would like to know why they write that it couldn't happen. It seems with basic math and few assumptions that it's quite possible, because of the large influx of immigration.


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## mifletzet (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: MifletzDate: 2020-05-06 20:35:23Reaction Score: 1


If Colonel Tavington & his Redcoats had won the war & created a United Dominions of America, rather than a United States of America, , their would have been a *lot* more Amerindian populations around today.


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## Razor2299 (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Razor2299Date: 2020-05-07 02:14:59Reaction Score: 1




Felixnoille said:


> Whilst researching a different subject I came across something quite remarkable in Wikipedia, of all places. I have decided to post it separately, otherwise it would end up buried in a thread that tries to cover too many topics (again . It's from the Wikipedia page entitled:
> 
> *Demographic history of the United States*
> 
> ...


People back then had large families. It was common to have 5-10   or more children (long winters and no cable tv). So I am not surprised that the population increased exponentially.


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## Felix Noille (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: FelixnoilleDate: 2020-05-07 11:08:03Reaction Score: 0




Mifletz said:


> Colonel Tavington & his Redcoats


This was a movie right? The Patriot. Are you claiming that it's historically accurate?


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## codis (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: codisDate: 2020-05-07 11:21:12Reaction Score: 3




Felixnoille said:


> This was a movie right? The Patriot. Are you claiming that it's historically accurate?


Not specifically related to the "Patriot".
But some while ago, I came to the conclusion that almost all the "historical" movies were made to basically further a false narrative.
Rambo-style ...


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: MazakutemaniDate: 2020-05-07 12:37:21Reaction Score: 11


When we think of "native americans" were only told a fraction of the real history. Amerindians themselves were diverse in looks, language, religious beliefs, knowledge, technological abilities. Then there was non-amerindians here scattered all over as well. Asians, spanish, african, english, tatarian, the whole shebang! Our inability to accept this is due to our education system. Our education system taught us one "race" was superior or inferior to another and also they taught us a great technological superior civilization existed before but was flooded or destroyed, this fake theory was taught to all "races" and up and coming civilizations to make everyone think flying cars, high speed internet, robots that did the hard work for you was the "american dream" but what does any of it do to people? Watch wall-e and see what happens to people that live in atlantis. The "native americans" i mean all americans that were here before had it right all along. You can be civilized but up to a certain point. Whether kerosene lamps or electric light bulbs or candles depended on your belief in them. They were all used. Whether axes, arrows or guns depended on your courage or beliefs but they all were used. There was a lot of fruits, vegetables, medicines, herbs, spices, chocolate, meat to go around. They didnt create money they bartered and their word was their bond. Ppl had a understanding lying means you will die so dont lie. Every "tribe" or group had the freedom to build permanent homes, temporary homes, or follow the meat. There were no clocks, bills, appointments, traffic jams, smog, pollution just a freedom to do whatever the hell you want. They didnt build nukes or death rays out of common sense. This is the real atlantis or american dream, an understanding of the positive and negative effects of chasing and achieving "atlantis."

The motive for the destruction of the inhabitants, greed, revenge, manifest destiny all rolled up. Follow the historyof the great lakes, wisconsin, the ojibwe people, and the great sioux nation and youll see for yourself greed has brought enemies to american shores for centuries looking for "lac superior" "duluth" "chicago". 

The sioux had towns in minnesota and wisconsin, these towns had different names. After their defeat, the invaders moved in to these towns, then later burned them down. How could people justify this with the govt or president or general public and how could such a great cover up be kept hidden and why would a tribes history get erased?? The answer lies under duluth. Duluth will connect you to chicago. Chicago will connect you to lac superior. Then "tartaria" becomes clear as day.


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## wild heretic (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: wild hereticDate: 2020-05-07 13:26:06Reaction Score: 3




DrPaul Ruth said:


> I made a parallel based on similar conditions in about the same period in Northern Italy, where I live.
> There were very poor people, very many died in the age group between 0 and 2 years.
> The cemetery near my house in the 70s was almost half full of children's graves.
> We have never had a real increase in population, except from the 30s and then 60s of the last century, in conjunction with better living conditions.
> ...


I got that impression walking around Turin in 2019. I also got lost too and walked nearly half the way around the normal, non-touristy areas. I know most people would be out working, but the place felt quite under populated in comparison to the buildings I was seeing. Weird vibe. Sort of like the buildings were built for a bustling place in the 1700s.


codis said:


> Not specifically related to the "Patriot".
> But some while ago, I came to the conclusion that almost all the "historical" movies were made to basically further a false narrative.
> Rambo-style ...


Absolutely. Years ago I had my own rule that if a historical event was turned into a movie, then they were at best hiding something big they wanted covering up as TPTB know full well that people don't read books and get their information from the tv and movies mostly, especially where history is concerned.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: DrPaul RuthDate: 2020-05-07 14:25:07Reaction Score: 2




wild heretic said:


> I got that impression walking around Turin in 2019. I also got lost too and walked nearly half the way around the normal, non-touristy areas. I know most people would be out working, but the place felt quite under populated in comparison to the buildings I was seeing. Weird vibe. Sort of like the buildings were built for a bustling place in the 1700s.
> 
> Absolutely. Years ago I had my own rule that if a historical event was turned into a movie, then they were at best hiding something big they wanted covering up as TPTB know full well that people don't read books and get their information from the tv and movies mostly, especially where history is concerned.


I'm happy to read what you write, because I was in Turin years ago, and I had the impression of a city with something strange and now I know it's not just my impression.
I live in a small town, I thought maybe the effect was due to that.
It seems that the city had been divided into sectors, some made to welcome immigrants from southern Italy, others dedicated to Fiat and its automotive production.
Other sectors seemed to be kept on the sidelines.


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## trismegistus (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: trismegistusDate: 2020-05-07 18:04:31Reaction Score: 2




Mazakutemani said:


> The sioux had towns in minnesota and wisconsin, these towns had different names. After their defeat, the invaders moved in to these towns, then later burned them down. How could people justify this with the govt or president or general public and how could such a great cover up be kept hidden and why would a tribes history get erased?? The answer lies under duluth. Duluth will connect you to chicago. Chicago will connect you to lac superior. Then "tartaria" becomes clear as day.


I would love to see this idea expanded in its own post.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: StarmonkeyDate: 2020-05-07 20:01:23Reaction Score: 1




DrPaul Ruth said:


> I'm happy to read what you write, because I was in Turin years ago, and I had the impression of a city with something strange and now I know it's not just my impression.
> I live in a small town, I thought maybe the effect was due to that.
> It seems that the city had been divided into sectors, some made to welcome immigrants from southern Italy, others dedicated to Fiat and its automotive production.
> Other sectors seemed to be kept on the sidelines.


Well, there's the SHROUD and summer getaway for the papacy. And Damanhur is near there...


trismegistus said:


> I would love to see this idea expanded in its own post.


I grew up in the Midwest. Lots of old "Indian" names for places. Or slightly changed or bastardized versions, like IOWA.


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## Whitewave (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: whitewaveDate: 2020-05-07 23:48:25Reaction Score: 3




trismegistus said:


> I would love to see this idea expanded in its own post.


With documentation, please.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Red BirdDate: 2020-05-08 00:13:28Reaction Score: 3




Mazakutemani said:


> When we think of "native americans" were only told a fraction of the real history. Amerindians themselves were diverse in looks, language, religious beliefs, knowledge, technological abilities. Then there was non-amerindians here scattered all over as well. Asians, spanish, african, english, tatarian, the whole shebang! Our inability to accept this is due to our education system. Our education system taught us one "race" was superior or inferior to another and also they taught us a great technological superior civilization existed before but was flooded or destroyed, this fake theory was taught to all "races" and up and coming civilizations to make everyone think flying cars, high speed internet, robots that did the hard work for you was the "american dream" but what does any of it do to people? Watch wall-e and see what happens to people that live in atlantis. The "native americans" i mean all americans that were here before had it right all along. You can be civilized but up to a certain point. Whether kerosene lamps or electric light bulbs or candles depended on your belief in them. They were all used. Whether axes, arrows or guns depended on your courage or beliefs but they all were used. There was a lot of fruits, vegetables, medicines, herbs, spices, chocolate, meat to go around. They didnt create money they bartered and their word was their bond. Ppl had a understanding lying means you will die so dont lie. Every "tribe" or group had the freedom to build permanent homes, temporary homes, or follow the meat. There were no clocks, bills, appointments, traffic jams, smog, pollution just a freedom to do whatever the hell you want. They didnt build nukes or death rays out of common sense. This is the real atlantis or american dream, an understanding of the positive and negative effects of chasing and achieving "atlantis."
> 
> The motive for the destruction of the inhabitants, greed, revenge, manifest destiny all rolled up. Follow the historyof the great lakes, wisconsin, the ojibwe people, and the great sioux nation and youll see for yourself greed has brought enemies to american shores for centuries looking for "lac superior" "duluth" "chicago".
> 
> The sioux had towns in minnesota and wisconsin, these towns had different names. After their defeat, the invaders moved in to these towns, then later burned them down. How could people justify this with the govt or president or general public and how could such a great cover up be kept hidden and why would a tribes history get erased?? The answer lies under duluth. Duluth will connect you to chicago. Chicago will connect you to lac superior. Then "tartaria" becomes clear as day.


I agree some links would be appreciated. There’s quite a bit of evidence there were ancient visitors to the area for metals.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: MazakutemaniDate: 2020-05-08 04:09:40Reaction Score: 6




Red Bird said:


> I agree some links would be appreciated. There’s quite a bit of evidence there were ancient visitors to the area for metals.


I spent 2.5 years researching it. I know im on to something big because a lot of library or museum or historical pages wont let me view anything anymore, i always get a temporarily unavailable notice. I bought books. "A History of Louisiana or of the western parts of virginia and carolina" "the heart of everything that is" 4 books on the Siouan tribes of the east. 

Pdf file searches: exploration of the basin of the mississippi, exploration of kathio, massive military employment of the united states government on the ghost dance, complete history of duluth, spanish history of lake superior, french history of lake superior, portuguese history of lake superior, british history of lake superior, tartaria history of lake superior, chinese history of lake superior, german history of lake superior, italian history of lake superior, mexicana history of lake superior, dutch history of lake superior, checagou history, chikago, roman mining of the great lakes, nadassioux nation, aztec oglala sioux connection, tetonwan sioux tatarian connection, all 28 sioux siouan bands

Newspaper articles 1804-1807 lewis and clark letters

Heres one of the sioux towns that was destroyed. Im not sure about all the towns in the 1800s or 1900s that had great fires earthquakes or tornados with minimum casualties but ill bet my bottom dollar they pretended to live in them towns then burned them down, or maybe they burned up witnesses i dont know but according to the merriwether lewis letters it appears like a conspiracy to destroy something, then fabricate up to 50 years ahead of information with the motive being unlimited gold and silver from the sioux mines in duluth and the black hills.






Even the nice stone work had to go, wasnt good enough for mt rushmore i guess


They better blow this one up too below while theyre at it.


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## codis (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: codisDate: 2020-05-08 06:52:24Reaction Score: 3




DrPaul Ruth said:


> Given the objective difficulty of living conditions at the time, this increase appears to be outside the norm.


I made the same observation in the region I came from. A quite poor rural region as well.
In the late 19.th centure, several factories settled in the area, drawing mainly from natural resources (water, wood).
Population number increased significantly, and average arable land per farmer reduced. The children built houses on their parent's former acres, family livelihood not longer depended on agricultural yield.

IMHO Africa is not an appropriate example, because many of the poor subsist from Western handouts. If they had to rely fully on local food production, the population of many countries would reduce in a matter of a few years.


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## Felix Noille (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: FelixnoilleDate: 2020-05-08 09:11:02Reaction Score: 1




trismegistus said:


> I would love to see this idea expanded in its own post.





whitewave said:


> With documentation, please.


I think you may find a few such threads already exist. This one comes to mind:
Fou-Sang & 1870s board game: Voyage from New York to San Francisco upon the Union Pacific Railroad


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## Whitewave (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: whitewaveDate: 2020-05-08 09:53:46Reaction Score: 3




Felixnoille said:


> I think you may find a few such threads already exist. This one comes to mind:
> Fou-Sang & 1870s board game: Voyage from New York to San Francisco upon the Union Pacific Railroad


Yes, thank you, I've read both of those threads. Mazakutemani seems like he has something to say about stolen native history. 
Living in "Indian territory" (official name until statehood) and having my own native genealogical history hidden from me, I'd be interested in learning whatever truths he has to share. 
If you're suggesting he simply add to aforementioned threads, I'd be ok with that too if he is. Either way, learning more about the majority of inhabitants to this land before their conquest is a topic of vital relevance to the topic of stolen history in general, imho.

What I personally don't want to see/hear is an appeal to victim status... from any racial group. I think we all know that Indians were screwed over (ongoing, btw) and such has been the fate of every conquered people (of every ethnicity). Sweeping generalizations or opinionated claims regarding any topic without documentation add nothing to a discussion and only sow seeds of division and discontent. 
The history of these lands is an important topic and one in which I look forward to seeing discussed in a civil and emotionally detached manner.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: DrPaul RuthDate: 2020-05-08 12:27:39Reaction Score: 1




Starmonkey said:


> Well, there's the SHROUD and summer getaway for the papacy. And Damanhur is near there...
> 
> I grew up in the Midwest. Lots of old "Indian" names for places. Or slightly changed or bastardized versions, like IOWA.


Damanhur is one aspect of the esoteric character of of the Italian region called Piemonte.
Turin, together with London and San Francisco, is considered to be part of a triangle of cities, capitals of black magic .
San Francisco is a city that has already come up in other discussions on this site, not to mention London


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## wild heretic (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: wild hereticDate: 2020-05-08 19:15:51Reaction Score: 0




codis said:


> I made the same observation in the region I came from. A quite poor rural region as well.
> In the late 19.th centure, several factories settled in the area, drawing mainly from natural resources (water, wood).
> Population number increased significantly, and average arable land per farmer reduced. The children built houses on their parent's former acres, family livelihood not longer depended on agricultural yield.
> 
> IMHO Africa is not an appropriate example, because many of the poor subsist from Western handouts. If they had to rely fully on local food production, the population of many countries would reduce in a matter of a few years.


With this corona bullshit collapse of the economy, the western food supply may get so low that africa gets no food from the west anymore. Thatll be fun for them thats for sure.


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## Felix Noille (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: FelixnoilleDate: 2020-05-09 09:32:46Reaction Score: 0




wild heretic said:


> With this corona bullshit


There are plenty of other threads available for these type of comments.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: PathfinderDate: 2020-05-09 19:36:10Reaction Score: 2




Felixnoille said:


> Whilst researching a different subject I came across something quite remarkable in Wikipedia, of all places. I have decided to post it separately, otherwise it would end up buried in a thread that tries to cover too many topics (again . It's from the Wikipedia page entitled:
> 
> *Demographic history of the United States*
> 
> ...


That is a very mindblowing idea the so called white  Slaves where the Native Americans to .Great Job here...



Mazakutemani said:


> When we think of "native americans" were only told a fraction of the real history. Amerindians themselves were diverse in looks, language, religious beliefs, knowledge, technological abilities. Then there was non-amerindians here scattered all over as well. Asians, spanish, african, english, tatarian, the whole shebang! Our inability to accept this is due to our education system. Our education system taught us one "race" was superior or inferior to another and also they taught us a great technological superior civilization existed before but was flooded or destroyed, this fake theory was taught to all "races" and up and coming civilizations to make everyone think flying cars, high speed internet, robots that did the hard work for you was the "american dream" but what does any of it do to people? Watch wall-e and see what happens to people that live in atlantis. The "native americans" i mean all americans that were here before had it right all along. You can be civilized but up to a certain point. Whether kerosene lamps or electric light bulbs or candles depended on your belief in them. They were all used. Whether axes, arrows or guns depended on your courage or beliefs but they all were used. There was a lot of fruits, vegetables, medicines, herbs, spices, chocolate, meat to go around. They didnt create money they bartered and their word was their bond. Ppl had a understanding lying means you will die so dont lie. Every "tribe" or group had the freedom to build permanent homes, temporary homes, or follow the meat. There were no clocks, bills, appointments, traffic jams, smog, pollution just a freedom to do whatever the hell you want. They didnt build nukes or death rays out of common sense. This is the real atlantis or american dream, an understanding of the positive and negative effects of chasing and achieving "atlantis."
> 
> The motive for the destruction of the inhabitants, greed, revenge, manifest destiny all rolled up. Follow the historyof the great lakes, wisconsin, the ojibwe people, and the great sioux nation and youll see for yourself greed has brought enemies to american shores for centuries looking for "lac superior" "duluth" "chicago".
> 
> The sioux had towns in minnesota and wisconsin, these towns had different names. After their defeat, the invaders moved in to these towns, then later burned them down. How could people justify this with the govt or president or general public and how could such a great cover up be kept hidden and why would a tribes history get erased?? The answer lies under duluth. Duluth will connect you to chicago. Chicago will connect you to lac superior. Then "tartaria" becomes clear as day.


They 
killed all the so called Holy man ,Medicin Women und Men as They did in Europa and 
Russia to. This Holy men and Women were the Keeper of History and had heeling and 
Foreseeing PSI forces. The Education of these
 People began in the 50 ths and They had sometimes more as 10 initations. After the 
Genozid endet There were no people anymore who  had the Full Knowledge. The rest  in a Great Part Children had no or a little Memory as have you and I that is the cause of our quest. Deep in our  mind we know  what had happend then we and our parents great parents we're  the surviver of the tribes..Excuse my written English. It is time time to confront the truth. In my mind there are Pictures of the past Atomic like weapons great kataklysmen war's Genocide and pandemies.  All of the Land of our ancestors the so called tartarians.Thank You my People be well


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: BantaDate: 2020-05-14 04:07:02Reaction Score: 0




Felixnoille said:


> This was a movie right? The Patriot. Are you claiming that it's historically accurate?


"Historically accurate" is a tough standard to assess, but it appears the character has played the role of the mustache-twirling villain previously (name changed to protect the innocent?):



> (In the Patriot) There is a sadistic English Col Tavington who incinerates women and children in a church, torches homes, shoots and hangs rebels and enjoys his job.
> Tavington is based on a historical figure, Col Banastre Tarleton, who later ended up as an MP for Liverpool_._


Older Americans uncomfortable with Mel Gibson's playing of patriot game



> On 29 May 1780, Colonel Tarleton, with a force of 149 mounted soldiers, overtook a detachment of 350 to 380 Virginia Continentals, led by Colonel Abraham Buford, who refused to surrender or to stop his march. Only after sustaining many casualties did Buford order the American soldiers to surrender. Nonetheless, Tarleton's forces ignored the white flag and massacred the soldiers of Buford's detachment; 113 American soldiers were killed, 203 were captured, and 150 were severely-wounded. The British army casualties were 5 soldiers killed and 12 soldiers wounded. From the perspective of the British Army, the affair of the massacre is known as the Battle of Waxhaw Creek. *In that time, the American rebels used the phrase 'Tarleton's quarter' (shooting after surrender) as meaning 'no quarter offered'. In the 19th century, American historians represented Tarleton as a ruthless butcher, whilst the perspective of some contemporary historians has changed in this regard...*
> 
> ...*Regardless of the extent to which they were true or false, the reports of British atrocities motivated Whig-leaning colonials to support the American Revolution.* In the event, on 7 October 1780, at the Battle of Kings Mountain, South Carolina, soldiers of the Continental Army, having heard of the slaughter at Waxhaw Creek, killed surrendering American Loyalists, after a sniper killed their British commanding officer, Maj. Patrick Ferguson.


Banastre Tarleton - Wikipedia


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## wild heretic (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: wild hereticDate: 2020-05-17 08:51:56Reaction Score: 0




Felixnoille said:


> There are plenty of other threads available for these type of comments.


still very on point regarding africa. read somewhere ages ago about a banker alledegly saying that the economies of the west are so fragile that a contolled implosion would create great food shortages and africa would starve to death. and here we are, or nearly there at least. We are going to see heavy food inflation soon i think. Lets hope it doesnt take on Zimbabwe proportions in the future. Then its major war time imo.


Mabzynn said:


> I don't see what's so confusing.  The math checks out:
> 
> 250,000 people in 1700 at 3% growth rate will produce a population of 2,660,222 by 1780.
> 
> This is without all your added immigrants.  I'd be more concerned with finding what killed 700,000+ (at a minimum... because if any of them start having kids it gets crazy quick... let's say you start in 1700 with 915,800 people you'd be closer to 10,000,000 by 1780).


i read somewhere several hundred thousand irish came over from 1771 to 1775 i think. So those additions came late. However i think u are right in that we could have an underpopulation problem here. Tha amish growth rate is even higher than 3%. I cant remember it now. Is it 3.7%? The women have 7 kids on average.


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## Felix Noille (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: FelixnoilleDate: 2020-05-17 10:11:16Reaction Score: 0


How many women capable of childbearing do you think arrived on the convict ships?


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## Whitewave (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: whitewaveDate: 2020-06-04 12:57:41Reaction Score: 1




Felixnoille said:


> How many women capable of childbearing do you think arrived on the convict ships?


Alice Walker was only one of about 5,000 *women transported* to the *American* colonies the eighteenth century. (Varsity Tutors)

The ships departed with an estimated 775 *convicts* (582 men and 193 *women*), as well as officers, marines, their wives and children, and provisions and agricultural implements. (Wiki-first fleet sent to America)


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## Felix Noille (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: FelixnoilleDate: 2020-06-05 11:51:40Reaction Score: 0




whitewave said:


> Alice Walker was only one of about 5,000 *women transported* to the *American* colonies the eighteenth century. (Varsity Tutors)
> 
> The ships departed with an estimated 775 *convicts* (582 men and 193 *women*), as well as officers, marines, their wives and children, and provisions and agricultural implements. (Wiki-first fleet sent to America)


Does it say how many survived the trip?


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## Whitewave (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: whitewaveDate: 2020-06-05 16:27:02Reaction Score: 0




Felixnoille said:


> Does it say how many survived the trip?


No, the article didn't say but it was only the first fleet. I'm sure there were others. Plus the natives didn't have the same prudery as the Europeans.


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## Felix Noille (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: FelixnoilleDate: 2020-06-06 09:44:54Reaction Score: 1


OK, I surrender. Although Wikipedia for once admits that there is an anomaly in the official narrative, the members of this forum can show that it's perfectly normal, the phantom 1.5 million people were produced naturally by the colonists and the immigrants. It had nothing whatsoever to do with the assimilation of the population from the pre-existing American civilisation. So, that's one in the eye for the official narrative... oh no, wait a minute... that's one in the eye for the Alternative History Community.

Wikipedia can't even get its anomalies right.


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