# The Uniqueness of Lepenski Vir



## PantaOz (Oct 10, 2022)

Lepenski Vir, dates back to the Paleolithic era (6,000 years old) and is located on the shores of river Danube!

The architecture of the people who once lived in the area has been discovered as a result of the archaeological excavations that have been taking place at Lepenski Vir. In particular, seven stages have been identified across the 136 buildings. Despite their varying sizes, these houses were found to have a standard design. The smallest house was 16 square feet, while the largest house was approximately 320 square feet. There were two kinds of these houses: one that appeared to be a home, and the other that appeared to be a temple or shrine.








The incredible precision of the geometry in these structures has led some to believe that they may have been the beginning of modern architecture. Despite the fact that the houses have a trapezoid base, which may have been inspired by the mountains' trapezoid shape, the base structures are accurately measured at 60 degrees and are constructed as an equilateral triangle. Additionally, this trapezoid's tip points in the wind's direction. But, I would like to hear your opinion about it...  I feel something is missing!





The horseshoe-shaped walls are made of wood, which is the material used in their construction.It's possible that the wood referred to here was wattle rather than genuine wood. Even though there is evidence to suggest that the houses had roofs, it is impossible to tell if they were made of degradable materials or not. On the other hand, when it comes to finishing the interior, it was discovered that the floors were finished with something that sticks like concrete. The substance is thought to be a mixture of animal dung, ash, and red clay-lime that hardens over time. The availability of these materials and their current use in the villages that surround Lepenski Vir provide evidence that they were utilized in the construction of these houses.



 

 





Regarding the culture of those who lived in the Lepenski Vir region, not much has been reconstructed.However, the findings indicate a complicated social structure with elaborate burial grounds from which norms and rituals can be deduced. Even though the excavators discovered a large cemetery, they also discovered separate burial grounds.

Under the houses and floors, which had been exceptionally well preserved, some dead bodies were discovered. Children's skeletons were also found, and it was thought that these were elders or well-known people. Therefore, it is unknown what kind of formula was used to decide who should be buried in the cemetery or beneath the house.



 

 





However, the fact that the sculptures only depict heads suggests that the culture followed a religious cult of the head worshiping .Therefore, it is possible to argue that ritual burials may have included removing the skull from the head of the deceased person in order to bury it separately from the body.These male skulls would be buried among crushed stones and serve as the foundation for later homes.The skeleton that was dug shallowly from house 69 and excavated is the best preserved.It has been determined that this skull dates back to Vir I, also known as the Proto-Vir.

The skeletons of the people buried beneath the floor also demonstrate that the bodies were arranged so that the genitals were above the widening portions of the central installation of the house.The researchers have come to the conclusion that, regardless of the gender of the buried body, it could be a symbol of birth. Ash-filled ceramic vessels may have had a ritual significance, as they were also discovered.

The people who lived in the Lepenski Vir area are thought to be the descendants of early Europeans who came from the Czech Republic and lived solely off of hunting and gathering for food.These researchers point to evidence of temporary dwellings that may have been constructed with the intention of assisting in the process of hunting and gathering food and raw materials.This suggests that the inhabitants of the settlement may have been semi-nomadic and managed in some way in how they used the resources at their disposal, and that they may have come from a location far from the village.





 

 



However, this is debatable because another group of researchers asserts that fishing was the people's primary occupation. The river is where the idea of fishing comes from, and there are geographical factors that make fishes more plentiful around the settlement than in other locations along the river. In addition, the settlement's houses appear to be arranged in a way that suggests rapid movement toward the river, which could indicate that the river was used for food as well as water.

I found some connection between the "fish-head" looking sculptures in Lepenski Vir and others in France, but the official dating shows a huge gap of 2,000 to 3,000 years! Others claimed that there is a connection with the Phoenicians...








> Harald Haarmann
> 
> Over the last few decades, archaeologists and cultural scientists have come to a better understanding of the extent of Neolithic civilisation on the Balkan peninsula. This Danube Civilisation, thriving between the 6th and 4th millennia BCE, *was using a writing system long before the Mesopotamians* and is remarkable for its accomplishments in craftsmanship, art and urban development. In this book, Harald Haarmann provides the first comprehensive insight into this enigmatic Old European culture, which is still largely unknown to the greater public. He describes the trade routes, settlements, mythology and writing system of this people, traces the changes resulting from the arrival of the Indo-Europeans, and shows how this first advanced civilisation in Europe influenced its successors.





>


I think that his opinion includes the Vincha culture as well...


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## feralimal (Oct 11, 2022)

Maybe its me, but some of those stone figures seem like more subtle versions of Sheela na gigs.


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## Feck (Oct 11, 2022)

The Neolithic menfolks on Orkney were genetically the same as the Danube Gorgeans.
we could look at the catastrophe on the middle Danube plain as a source for both since the orknians went on the copy the destroyed landscape there (Stonehenge, cursus (s) etc etc). Lepenski vir houses look like they are a segment in a circle. This is indicative of the destroyed structure/culture in the middle Danube. The gorge was very important for the protection of the kikkar upriver.
i think you find the tanit because the middle Danube was very important to Egypt and the phoenicians Etc etc. It is the underworld. The duat. It was paradise but there was a flood. Note vinca black topped pottery in Egypt.
when you look at it, it is surprising who is descended from a Central European man. lots and lots of cultures/folks.

peace


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## PantaOz (Oct 12, 2022)

In the large study Mathieson et al. – The Genomic History of Southeastern Europe, we finally got the results of the first skeletons analyzed from the territory of Serbia, from three of the most famous archaeological cultures related to this area, Lepenski Vir, Starchevo and Vincha.

Indeed, of the 39 samples analyzed, only 1 belonged to the Starcevo culture, 3 were from the period of Vincha culture, from the site of Gomolava near Ruma, and as many as 35 samples were from four cultural sites of the Lepenski Vir: Vlasac, Padina, Hajdučka Vodenica and the eponymous site Lepenski Vir. The analysis covers the Y chromosome, which is inherited exclusively in the male line, mitochondrial DNA, which is inherited only along a woman's line, as well as the overall (autozomal) genetics, which includes analysis of all chromosomes except gender (_please, correct me if anything is wrong in these claims, I had to translate those from a report written in Serbian_).

Before switching to the results of the samples analyzed, it is worth remembering what the genetic picture of today's population of Serbia is.

Viewed along the male line (Y chromosome), Serbs are dominant descendants of Slavs. Y haplogroups representing the Slavic genetic signal, I2a-CTS10228 (also known as I2a-Dinarik), R1a-Z280 and R1a-M458 carry over half of Serbs (I2a-CTS10228 ~ 34%, R1a (Z280 + M458) ~ 17%).

Haplogroups that can be associated with the pre-Slavic population of the Balkans (Ilirian, Thracian, Celts, etc.) carry approximately 35% of the male population (E-V13, J2-M172, R1b-Z2103, R1b-P312, G2a-L497). About 10% of the male line's origins are drawn from various German tribes, primarily Goth, Norman and Sass (haplogroups I1-M 253, R1b-U106, I2a2a-M223), while the rest are made up of some less represented haplogroups (N2-Y6503, J1-M267, Q-M242), whose origins have not yet been fully clarified.

When it comes to mitochondrial haplogroups, the picture is much more colourful, as in most European countries, so we won't tire of those numbers too much. Looking at overall (autozomal) genetics, Serbs in roughly equal percentages (50-50) carry the genetics of the Pre-Slavic population of the Balkans on one side, and Slavs, Germans and some of the later newcomers on the other.

*Analysis of samples from four cultural sites of Lepenski Vir shows that its inhabitants carried epsilon (I + R1b = 100%) and mitochondrial haplogroups (U5 + U4 + U8 = 80%) previously found in Paleolithic and Mesolithic hunter-gatherers across Europe. *

What differed from them was the presence of some mitochondrial haplogroups (K1 + H + J2 = 20%) whose further origins are related to the Middle East, and thought to have come directly from the earliest Neolithic farmers from Anatolia, or that they were present among hunter-gatherers from the Southeast Balkans and Anatolia, who were among the first to be absorbed into the earliest Neolithic population upon their arrival in the Balkans.

Another theory supports the fact that haplogroup K1 was also found in two Greek Mesolithic samples from Thessaly. And according to autozomal genetics, the cultural bearers of Lepenski Vir were, especially in the older Mesolithic phase, very similar to hunter-gatherers from Western and Central Europe.

Two samples from Lepenski Vir (I4665 and I4666), dating back to the early Neolithic period – Lepenski Vir I-II, according to autozomal genetics, they are almost identical to the earliest Anatolian and Balkan farmers, and one sample from Padina (I5232) from the same period had almost equal share of the genetics of Mesolithic hunter-gatherers and Neolithic farmers.

(Just reminded me that the genetic claims for the builders of Stonehendge were similar, coming from Anatolia).

It is indicative that all three samples with a significant share of neolithic farmers' genetics were also carriers of Neolithic mitochondrial haplogroups that *are not present in hunter-gatherers from earlier periods*. All this tells us that the Djerdap Gorge was one of the regions where the earliest contacts were established, both cultural and genetic, between Mesolithic hunter-gatherers and early Neolithic farmers.

These findings support earlier archaeological evidence, which suggested that during the period of early Neolithic period, there were certain changes in material culture (the emergence of ceramics, the burial of the deceased in a cramped position), caused by an influx of new population. Analysis of strontium isotopes also showed that many individuals buried after 6100 E.G. in Lepenski Vir (including the I4665 sample) were of non-local origin, i.e. they were not original from the Djerdap Gorge region.

Another interesting fact that can be extracted from these results is that the initial contacts between the two populations were presumably one-way, i.e. that farming newcomers were largely or entirely female, because no Y haplogroups characteristic of the earliest Neolithic farmers were found in any sample (G2a2, H2, C1a2, I2c, J2, T1a)

We will now take a closer look at the Y haplogroups, as they are most useful for interpreting population movements in the distant past. Of the 17 male samples from this study, 10 belonged to Haplogroup I, whose holders were one of the earliest modern humans to inhabit Europe, and 7 haplogroups R1b-L754 (all but one xP297), meaning they did not represent the ancestral population for more than 99% of today's holders of this haplogroup in Europe, which belongs to the branch of the P297 > M2699.

Let's mention that one sample from the site of The Slope belongs to the branch of I2a1-P37, therefore the line which is, among others, ancestral for the branch of I2a-CTS10228, which is dominant among Serbs. Unfortunately, no deeper sub-branch has been established in this sample, and the branches of P37 and CTS10228 have been shared for more than 13,000 years, so we cannot draw any important conclusions based on it, and it's best to leave the speculations to someone else.

All other samples with established deeper sub-branches belong to the branch of I2a2a-M223, which in itself would not mean much to us, however the fact that several of its corresponding samples have been diagnosed with an even deeper sub-branch of the Z161 changes things significantly.

Today, in the form of its most numerous sub-branch, L801, is the most represented among German peoples, with the highest percentages recorded in Denmark, northern Germany, the Netherlands and Belgium, England and northwestern Sicily (as a result of Norman settlement), and is represented in almost all parts of Europe (the exception is the Western Balkans, northern Ukraine and southern Belarus.

The question is how this branch got among the Germans. Since this branch was found in some other samples from later periods and archaeological cultures, we will try to give an answer as to when and which way its bearers could have moved in the distant past. So, the oldest holders of this branch were discovered in the culture of Lepenski Vir.


I just noticed... Serbian President Vuchic looks like those sculptures?


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## Feck (Oct 12, 2022)

the historic flow of the danube

occupation levels


what was occupied when

catching on aren't they




peace

ps... there are no neolithic men in Britain who have middle eastern haplogroups. only chicks. there is a guy in Ireland in the big white mound... but neolithic haplogroups descend from European peoples from dolni vestonice etc. in the first place... and they are from Peștera cu Oase man.


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## Udjat (Oct 13, 2022)

I think this thread is very interesting.  One thing I noticed is that the structure above with the steppe looking area reminds me of the underwater megalith structures off the coast of Japan, the Yonaguni monument.


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