# Is Mexico-Tenochtitlan in reality the mythic Quinsay as described by Marco Polo?



## HELLBOY (Mar 5, 2021)

Many of us think that the city that *Cortes* is supposed to draw and send to *Carlos V* does not fit in with the *Tenochtitlan* that they show us today.





*Tenochtitlan Main Temple*​*HB: * That is why I wanted to introduce you to the proposal of a man who lived from 1447 to 1547, practically at the height of the discovery of America.

Called: *Johannes Schoner (1477-1547) *who claimed in 1523 that *Tenochtitlán*, the city conquered by *Hernán Cortés* two years earlier, was the Chinese metropolis of *Quinsay*, the "City of Heaven."

*These three points seem to me to be main:*
-America united to the Asian continent according to some old maps.
-A surprising architecture.
-Similarity between the statements of Marco Polo when he visited Quinsay and that of Hernan Cortes when he arrived at Temix-Titan.

*Johannes Schóner* had access to several testimonies, among them the second Kinship Letter of *Hernán Cortés* and also the Book of the wonders of the world, the famous Millione, by the Venetian *Marco Polo*. And of course Schóner was aware of what had been written about the trips of Columbus and those who later marched to those lands located to the west.

"These new lands (those of the western hemisphere) belong to the continent of Upper India, which is part of Asia ..."* (Schoner c.1523, 10.)*

In this interpretation of *Magellan's voyage*, *Schoner* followed the opinion of *Maximiliano Transilvano*,* Carlos V's* secretary, expressed in a letter written in Valladolid at the end of 1522. Addressing the Cardinal of Salzburg to *Transilvano*, he reported in it what he knew about the recent Magellan's journey, hinting that the union of the so-called New World with Asia could be concluded from him.




*Globe by Johannes Schöner of Weimar from 1533.*​*Schoner* identifies *Mexico-Tenochtitlan* with *Quinsay*, the "City of Heaven."
Let's see what he wrote about it.
*Mexico-Temistitan* in Upper India or, rather, in *Cathay, China*.
Without hesitation on this point, Schoner expresses it in his Opusculum Geographicum:

 "Following a long circuit, towards the west, starting from Spain, there is a land called Mexico and Themis-titan in Upper India, which the ancients called Quinsay, that is to say . to say the City of Heaven. " (Schoner, c. 1523, 12.)




Something similar to the thread SH Archive - Continent of North America does not exist... or could it be a part of Asia?​

*THIS IS THE PART OF MARCO POLO:*
*

*​
To know the location that was attributed to Quinsay we can go to Henricus Martellus's world map, drawn up in Nuremberg around 1490. In it the image of the world of Ptolemy is preserved, although already very enriched.
Quinsay appears at the eastern end of Asia, as one of the two largest cities on Earth and built precisely on a large lagoon. Both in the terrestrial globe of 1523, as in another of his of 1533, Schoner delineates such a union of America with Asia. Schoner, a native of Nuremberg, where he worked, knew that map of the world. Also, as it is true, it can be said that he had read at least the part of Marco Polo's book in which he talks about Quinsay, explaining that it was the "City of Heaven". In describing it, he points out that it was also given the name Hang-Tcheou, which endures to the present. Marco Polo reports that Hang-Tcheou, with another name from Quinsay, was the capital of Manzio in southern China. In describing its splendor, among other things, he comments that:
It is so big that it has a hundred miles per circuit and it has twelve thousand stone bridges ... Because you have to know that this city is built on the water that surrounds it from all sides. It is convenient, therefore, that there are so many bridges.
There are splendid palaces and rich houses belonging to the nobles of the city. Many idols are also kept, and numerous monasteries ...
There are more than three thousand baths in it ... Merchants arrive there loaded with various products ... Its inhabitants are excellent men of war ... When a child is born they write down the day and time of its birth and under what sign occurred. When [later] someone wants to travel, he consults an astrologer to see if he should take the trip or not ...
People burn the bodies of those who die ... The palace of the supreme ruler of Manzi is the largest in the world ... Inside there are very beautiful gardens ... The city receives immense tributes ..., forty times five one thousand six hundred gold pesos ... (Marco Polo 1988, 82-90.)

*THIS IS THE PART OF HERNAN CORTES: *
*

*​Regarding what was expressed by Hernán Cortés about Mexico-Tenochtitlán in his second Letter of Relationship, dated October 30, 1520.
This letter was published very early in Spain. It appeared in Seville. in the printing house of Jacobo Cromberger, in November 1522.
As it is possible that Schüner read the description of the metropolis that Cortés conquered in that Spanish edition, it is also possible to think that he had access to the printing of it in German, which was published in March 1524 and precisely in Nuremberg, where he worked. Schoner. The latter goes on to affirm that the Treaty where he identified the Mexican metropolis with the Chinese, was written and printed not in 1523, but a few years later.
Let's now look at Cortés de México-Tenochtitlan's description without losing sight of Marco Polo's description of Quinsay:
This great city of Temistitán is founded on this salty lagoon, and if you want to enter, there are two leagues. It has four entrances, all of hand-made carriageway, as wide as two spears put together ...
The city is as big as Seville and Córdoba. They are her streets, I mean the main ones, very wide and straight ...
There are bridges of very wide and very large beams together and all of them strong and well carved ... This city has many squares, where there are continuous markets and I try to buy and sell. It has another square as big as twice the city of Salamanca ...
In this city there are many mosques or houses of their idols, with very beautiful buildings ... and in the main ones there are religious people of their sect, who continuously reside in them ...
There are many very good and very large houses in this great city, and the reason for having so many main houses is that all the lords of these lands, are vassals of the said Muteczuma, have their houses in said city ... besides this there are many rich citizens who also have very good houses ...
The people of this city are in more manner and delicacy in their dress and service than there is in the other of these provinces and cities ...
In all the lordships of these lordships they had forces made [garrisons] and in them their own people and their governors and took their governors from the service and income that each province gave them, and there was an account and reason for what each one was obliged to give, because they have characters and figures written on the paper they make ...
[The sovereign] had a house a little less good than this one where he had a beautiful garden ... In this house he had ten pools of water ... (Cortés 1946, 31-34.)

In summary, the two descriptions converge on the following main points: greatness of the city, being built on water, having many bridges, large markets and merchants, there are also temples with idols and monasteries, large palaces, one in particular, residence of the sovereign, with a beautiful garden, sumptuous houses, as well as in the wealth of the metropolises to which tributes flowed.

*HB:* 
-I agree that both descriptions are very similar.
-To begin with, he is already confusing himself in Aguila de dos cabeza on the Cortes map.
-And in the Moctezuma crown, as well as in other places in Mexico.
-Do you realize all the changes that the American continent underwent? and it is until around 1850 that it takes the form that we know with the names that we know.
-Do you realize that we really don't know much about what happened in colonialism, as if it had been an added time, as Fomenko alleges?
-We have two events during which Tartary was attacked from the West first and from the East second.
1773-75 attack from the West: masquerading as the Pugachev rebellion.
1775-1783 attack from the east: masquerading as American Revolutionary War.
 -Then in 1810-12-etc. Great events happen simultaneously with the attack on Moscow in 1812 by Napoleon and the rest of Europe, the American Civil War, the independences in America, without forgetting that disaster that the caprice artists drew.

THREAD SOURCE: México Tenochtitlan: metrópoli de la China









​


----------



## Tribe Of Yahudah (Jan 26, 2022)

HELLBOY said:


> Many of us think that the city that *Cortes* is supposed to draw and send to *Carlos V* does not fit in with the *Tenochtitlan* that they show us today.
> View attachment 7260
> 
> *Tenochtitlan Main Temple*​*HB: * That is why I wanted to introduce you to the proposal of a man who lived from 1447 to 1547, practically at the height of the discovery of America.
> ...


I think this land was in Tartaria, which now China has claimed for themselves and covered up the true history. On the attached map of Tartaria, you see the city of Cathay, but when you head East towards the Strait of Anian, you will see the city Quinci, which I believe is Quinsay. Remember, Tartaria was a vast kingdom that covered most of Asia, the Americas, as well as the surrounding islands, and Russian Tartary and Chinese Tartary were part of it at one point. I truly believe that the Kingdom of Tartaria was the Kingdom of the 12 Tribes of Israel, and when the Israelites broke the covenant with the Most High, by following after the ways of the Gentile nations deep into idolatry, He allowed the land to be destroyed, and them to be conquered by their enemies, enslaved, scattered and oppressed. When Tartary was later conquered, Russia and China both swept in and claimed its lands for themselves, with Russia claiming the bulk of it. Then I found this, which shows Russian officials in bed with the CIA to coverup/falsify what really happened between Russia and Tartary.


----------



## HELLBOY (Jan 27, 2022)

Tribe Of Yahudah said:


> I think this land was in Tartaria, which now China has claimed for themselves and covered up the true history. On the attached map of Tartaria, you see the city of Cathay, but when you head East towards the Strait of Anian, you will see the city Quinci, which I believe is Quinsay. Remember, Tartaria was a vast kingdom that covered most of Asia, the Americas, as well as the surrounding islands, and Russian Tartary and Chinese Tartary were part of it at one point. I truly believe that the Kingdom of Tartaria was the Kingdom of the 12 Tribes of Israel, and when the Israelites broke the covenant with the Most High, by following after the ways of the Gentile nations deep into idolatry, He allowed the land to be destroyed, and them to be conquered by their enemies, enslaved, scattered and oppressed. When Tartary was later conquered, Russia and China both swept in and claimed its lands for themselves, with Russia claiming the bulk of it. Then I found this, which shows Russian officials in bed with the CIA to coverup/falsify what really happened between Russia and Tartary.View attachment 18924View attachment 18923


There are a number of interesting maps showing the American continent joined with Asia SH Archive - Continent of North America does not exist... or could it be a part of Asia?

Even if you investigate the mythical Zipango (Japan) you will find maps that do not show America but only islands. Cipango - Wikipedia

Something to add about Marco Polo, is that he speaks of a very important person before Genghis Khan and that was Prester John, the man who ruled over the three Indies.
This man was closely related to the apostle Thomas.

Genghis Kahn asks for the hand of Prester John's daughter:

"By common consent, they chose as king one of their own, a man of strength and prudence, whose name was Chinchis; this happened in the year of the Lord 1187. After his coronation, all the Tartars, who were scattered in other regions, came to him and willingly submitted to his rule. (...) Seeing himself exalted to such glory, he sent messengers to his king, requesting his daughter as his wife. This occurred in the year 1200 of our Lord. The latter received his request as a most grievous affront, and replied harshly, for he said that he would rather throw his daughter into the fire than give her as wife to a slave of his, and scandalously expelled the envoys of Chinchis from his sight, saying to them, "Tell your lord that, since he has dared to rise to such haughtiness as to ask in marriage the daughter of his lord, I will cause him to die a bitter death. "
("Il Millone "Chapter LII. Of the first king of the Tartars and the quarrel with their king). https://www.gutenberg.org/files/10636/10636-h/10636-h.htm

In this battle the Prestor John was defeated by the Tartars and from there started the lineage of the Tartars who took over the territories previously occupied by the Prestor John.

Read this post that talks a little about the Prestor John, a city called Argon founded by the apostle Thomas himself (which in itself contradicts the historical timeline). What event turned Scythia into Tartary?

One of the things that is sometimes heard around is that Quetzalcoatl was a white, blue-eyed individual. The friars of the XVI century tried to find the reason for the presence of the indigenous people in these lands by looking for the answer in the Bible, concluding that they were part of the dispersed tribes of Israel.
or the other hand, the image of Quetzalcoatl, a character that did not accept human sacrifices and who was chaste, came to the fingertips so that the friars began to consider that it was about some apostle. Fray Diego Durán says: "That venerable man, whom they call Topiltzin [...] was according to the indigenous traditions a chaste and penitent priest, of whom apparently miraculous episodes are remembered [...] this holy man was some apostle that God brought to this land" (Durán, 1967). López de Gómara adds about Quetzalcóatl that he was a virgin, penitent, honest, temperate, religious and holy man; for Fray Bartolomé de las Casas he was white, tall, with a big beard, while Fray Juan de Torquemada agrees that he was white, blond and bearded. In addition, he is credited with having brought the knowledge of agriculture and other contributions.
Don Carlos de Sigüenza y Góngora wrote in the second half of the XVII century (Sigüenza y Góngora, 1959) that Quetzalcóatl was the apostle Saint Thomas, who had come to preach the Gospel, which is supported by Eguiara y Eguren in his Biblioteca Mexicana when he says about Sigüenza's work: "...that Saint Thomas, one of the Twelve Apostles, had migrated to this land, whom they called Quetzalcoatl, finding the coincidence of both names by the clothing, the doctrine and the prophecies of the Apostle..." (Eguiara, 1986). But the most serious event happened in 1794, when Fray Servando Teresa de Mier was invited to give the sermon in honor of the Virgin of Guadalupe. Based on data from José Ignacio Borunda, who had written his Clave general de interpretación de los jeroglíficos mexicanos, in which he established that the tilma of Juan Diego where the guadalupana was depicted was none other than the garment of Santo Tomás/Quetzalcóatl, he lashed out against the Spaniards denying that they were the first to evangelize in New Spain, since that had been done centuries before by the apostle in the figure of Quetzalcóatl. Quetzalcóatl ¿blanco y de ojos azules?

If you go to this thread that I made some time ago, you will discover that there is a certain relationship between Jesus, Thomas, John the Baptist. The secret of the twins Quetzalcoatl and Xolotl

And twin brothers begin to appear, even Krishna had his brother. The secret of the twins Quetzalcoatl and Xolotl

In the West the Wheel of Dharma or Chrismon is guarded by lions, solar animals, in the East the Wheel of Dharma or Chrismon is guarded by deer, lunar animals.

The West, as a solar culture, has deepened in the conquest of the Outer and Material World, but the East, as a lunar culture, has deepened in the Inner and Spiritual World.

East and West thus stage the duality of our own Humanity, a Humanity that, like our own mind, is always torn between reason (sun) and faith (moon). The secret of the twins Quetzalcoatl and Xolotl

All Mongolian babies are born with a blue birthmark on their backs and it is known as the Mongolian spot all over the world. Mongolians have worshipped the eternal blue sky since ancient times and considered this birthmark as a heavenly seal only for Mongolians.
The spot usually fades three to five years after birth and disappears at puberty. The common color is blue, but it can sometimes be found as bluish gray, bluish black or deep brown. In fact, pigmented birthmarks are associated with health risks, but Mongolian blue spots are not.
This birthmark is common not only among Mongolians, but also among the peoples of East, South, Southeast, South, North and Central Asia, the indigenous people of Oceania (mainly Micronesians and Polynesians), certain populations of Africa, Amerindians, non-European Latin Americans, mixed-race descendants of the Caribbean, and Turks.
While the blue spot is found in almost 95% of Mongolians, in other Asians, especially Koreans, Japanese and Chinese, blue spots are observed in about 50-80% of their population.
According to a study conducted in several hospitals in Mexico City, 51.8% of Mexican newborns have the Mongolian spot on average.
The blue spot also appears in 5-10% of Caucasian descendants. Among Europeans, it is almost absent, accounting for only 1-10% of the population. But the interesting data is that of Hungarians, who account for 22.6% of the population.
Some cultures believe that the blue spot comes from the divine place where the baby was pricked or slapped by a spirit to come out of the "pre-life" and be born, while others say it is a sign of royalty.
The Mongols, since ancient times, believed that they were patronized by heavenly powers. That is why on the seal of the Great Khan of the Mongol Empire was the inscription "By the will of the eternal heaven". And the Mongols understood the birth of children with a blue spot as the patronage of the heavens over their descendants.
The mark is also common among the Maya of the Yucatan peninsula, where it is called Wa in Mayan, meaning "circle of heaven".
The Uyghurs name the blue spot as the mark of Tengri, the sky deity who also blesses the newborn. Many other Turkic peoples believe that the Tengri or Umai-ene deities help the child take its first breath by patting its buttocks with their own hands. This role is played by the goddess Aiyysyt among the Siberian Yakuts.
Why is the Mongolian spot widespread among the indigenous people of North and South America?
According to the latest research, the first wave of settlers arrived on the American continent from Siberia and Central Asia through the Bering Strait no earlier than 23,000 years ago, at the height of the last Ice Age. This may explain the presence of the Mongolian stain in most Native American babies.
Mongolian spot - Wikipedia

But I suspect they are not taking into account the Tartarian Empire present in America.

This whole blue skin thing is also very interesting, I think this whole mess comes from those Catara persecutions.

Who exactly were the Cathars?

As we have seen, it was a Christian religious movement considered heretical by the Church, which developed in Western Europe from the twelfth century, specifically in northern Italy and in the French Languedoc.
An apocryphal gospel called "The Secret Supper", the only known Cathar religious text of a sacred nature, exerted great influence on its doctrinal formulations, since the rest of the writings are prayers, reflections, discourses, commentaries, theological works.....


Also known as "John's Interrogation", this apocryphon records the dialogue between John and Jesus "at the Secret Supper of the Kingdom of Heaven about the organization of this world, the prince (Satan) and Adam".

The text begins:


"I, John, who am your brother and who have access to affliction in order to have access, also, to the Kingdom of Heaven, while I was resting on the breast of our Lord Jesus Christ, I said to him, "Lord, who is it that will betray you?" and he answered me, "He who puts his hand with me in the dish. Then Satan entered into him (Judas) and was already seeking to sell me."
 And I said to him, "Lord, before Satan fell, in what glory was he established near your Father?"
From this question, the following topics are discussed:

1) Satan before the fall.

2) Seduction of the angels by Satan.

3) Fall of Satan.

4) Creation of the World.

5) Creation of Man.

6) Sin of Adam and Eve.

7) The generation of souls.

8) Satan's reign on Earth.

9) The coming of Jesus Christ.

10) Baptism by water and baptism by the Spirit.

11) The meaning of the words "eat the flesh and drink the blood of Christ".

12) The Last Judgment.

13) Satan's punishment.

Documentos Cátaros

Summarizing its content, we can see that Catharism participated in the Gnostic vision of the existence of a Good and Unknown God, who lived in the World of Light and Perfection (Pléroma), accompanied by his good angels (Eons).


However, one of these Aeons....


"... observed the glory of Him who moves the heavens. And he dreamed of sitting upon the clouds of the heavens for he wished to resemble the Most High."

And he revolted.

This Evil Aeon, assimilated as Satan,"... ascended into the heavens, corrupting the angels of the invisible Father," but....


"Then the Father gave this command to his angels, "Withdraw their robes, their thrones and their crowns from all the angels who obey him." "

Thus came about the fall of Satan and the angels who followed him....

"And coming down from heaven into the firmament, neither he nor those who were with him could find a place to rest, and he called upon the Father and said, "I have sinned: be patient with me, and I will restore all to you." The Father had mercy on him and gave him time to do as he wished until the seventh day. "

This free will was taken advantage of by Satan to create the World and Man.


"And he had a design to make a man who would be at his service. He took slime from the earth and created him in his own likeness. Then he commanded the angel of the second heaven to enter into that body of slime. Then he took a piece of the same, with which he formed another body in the form of a woman; and into that woman's body he caused the angel of the first heaven to enter."

So Satan enclosed the angels who had followed them in bodies of flesh and blood, and....


"The angels wept greatly, seeing that they were clothed in mortal wrappings, and that, now, they existed under different forms."

Y...
"And Satan constrained them to do the work of the flesh in these bodies of clay, but they knew not how to do sin."

So Satan, "the creator of sin employing all his malice"....


"planted a Paradise, within which he placed men and forbade them to eat of the fruits therein."

... the fruits of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, and of the Tree of Eternal Life.

We see, therefore, that for the Cathars, the God of the Old Testament is Satan himself. It is he who imprisoned the true angelic and divine nature of men in bodies of flesh and blood.


This divine conception of man, gives meaning to the words of Jesus in John 10: 34, when he reminds the Jews that....


- Is it not written in your law: "I said, you are gods"?
.... and gives a new meaning to the mythological allegory of the story of Paradise in Genesis, since it is the very God of the Old Testament, who turned into a serpent seduces Eve to make her fall into sin.
"Then the evil Devil entering into the evil serpent, seduced the angel who was in the form of a woman and poured upon her head the lust of sin."

Thus, it is concluded that...

"That is why men are not called children of God, but children of the Devil and children of the serpent, for they do the devilish wills of their father, and will do them until the end of the ages."

And the fact is that after taking from the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, man acquired the ability to judge, to discern and therefore, to think, thus losing his original innocence. In this way he was not only bound in the world through his body, but also through his mind, a mind that, forgetting its spiritual part, turned man into the protagonist and co-author of the satanic creation.

Catharism, therefore, not only had a dualistic vision of the world based on the existence of a true and good God, creator of everything spiritual, and a false and evil God, creator of matter. He also believed in reincarnation.

But if Satan martyrized men through the tribulations of their numerous lives, gnosis, a superior and saving knowledge that came from God, reconnected man with his angelic part, allowing him to return to the World of Light and Perfection to which he belonged.

Thus, the mind or reason could not only motivate Man's perdition, but also his salvation, since by unveiling the true nature of the Whole, it also allowed access to the knowledge of the spiritual.

It is not surprising, therefore, that in other dualistic Gnostic systems, as for example the Sethtians and Omites of the second century, the serpent, symbol of knowledge, on the contrary, acted under the orders of the Good God, endowing man with reason and therefore, with the ability to discover his true dignity and divinity.


Why do I make this point? Well, because it is evident that in the painting-reflection of the "Last Supper" by Leonardo da Vinci, the serpent, rather than being considered as an evil or benevolent symbol, must be considered as the key that allows man to reach Eternal Life. Not in vain, in its mouth is the Gate of Paradise and the Holy Grail.

This..., it is very important to keep in mind. And it is important, because we usually tend to pigeonhole people in a creed or religion, and believe that they faithfully follow their dogmas. However, the true mystic cannot be pigeonholed into any doctrine, because as a seeker, he is in and out of any belief system.

So, from my point of view, it is not possible to be sure, as many do, that Leonardo was a Cathar because of the symbolism present in his painting "The Last Supper". No. Far from it. Leonardo was above all, a lover of knowledge, of a knowledge present in all belief systems that exist, have existed and will exist. For that reason, he wanted to represent in his painting-reflections, not only one, but all the religions of the world.

(We have already seen some examples, but we will see many more).

Believe it or not, this type of men have influenced the Church of Rome much more than we are able to imagine, much more, although it is true that their voice, although protected, was silenced for the benefit of a political-religious unity that had to be safeguarded at all costs.


And as the Apocalypse says, God put in the hearts of the kings....

"... to execute what he willed: to agree, and to give his kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled." (Rev 17:17)

In this way, Rome became by "divine design", in "the great city that reigns over the kings of the Earth" (Rev 17:18), the Great Harlot of the Apocalypse, the city from which the Beast or Antichrist, has ruled the World. And it has done so, according to the Prophecies of Saint Malachi, until the year 2013, that is, until the pontificate of the current Pope Francis I.

From now on we will discover something: that the Church was never as "fanatical" as many believe, since in the shadows it always protected..., what publicly burned the fire of the Inquisition. All..., to keep together an ignorant and fanatic people.












SAINT JOHN THE BAPTIST OR BACO AS VIRACOCHA


----------



## PantaOz (Sep 12, 2022)

HELLBOY said:


> Many of us think that the city that *Cortes* is supposed to draw and send to *Carlos V* does not fit in with the *Tenochtitlan* that they show us today.
> View attachment 7260
> 
> *Tenochtitlan Main Temple*​*HB: * That is why I wanted to introduce you to the proposal of a man who lived from 1447 to 1547, practically at the height of the discovery of America.
> ...


You could be right... Chinese "leaders" from Hangzhou (the current name for Quinsay) are pushing the City of Heaven image for so long... they even considered themselves the most beautiful city in China (not according to my standards - Suzhou will always be number 1 for me)! There is not a single record that Marco Polo was here... but they will forget to mention that!





*For your reference I am including the old map of Hangzhou... so, compare!



 

*


----------

