# The Third Reich - Part 1



## freygeist (Mar 3, 2021)

If there is one field of historic research, where the amount of contradicting data presented to us, surpasses any other event, it has to be the thematic complex of the Third Reich and Adolf Hitler.

There are roughly 4 narratives, that we know from literature. The medial or official narrative, paints Hitler as the ultimate evil, trying to conquer the world, and being responsible for terrible atrocities. The academic narrative tells essentially the same story, but is more differentiated and has many works with substantial sources.

Then there are two narratives in revisionist literature, Hitler was an agent funded by the PTB, to build up Germany for the next big war, and the second: Hitler fought against the PTB, and all kinds of mixes between these narratives.

The most famous example of this ambiguity is Dunkirchen, where Hitler let the British Army escape, which greatly angered his generals. You could argue in favor of Hitler, this act was a sign of good will, to open up the possibility for future peace negotiations.

Or you could argue, that he let the army escape on purpose, to strengthen the british position in the long run, thus sabotaging Germanys war effort.

Both are completely valid points, and you see just from this one example, how difficult it is, to paint a somewhat accurate picture, as there is truth in all narratives.
So how can one evaluate what really happened, is to look for events that coexist in both the academic and revisionist literature, and are backed up by evidence and thus we can try to sort out some of the myths and contradictions on this subject.


*The Rise of National Socialism*







_(National socialism, the organized will of the nation)_​
Historical Background


The First World War and the manifestation of communism through the Sovjet empire was the initial plan of the Illuminati to defeat the remaining parts of the Old World by installing a communist regime in Germany and Russia and ultimately the whole World.
They succeeded in Russia first with the moderate Menshevik takeover of Czarist Russia, or the March Revolution, and then the October Revolution with the radical Bolsheviks under Lenin, who immediately started applying ways of terrorizing the rural people, called Kulaks, by confiscating their food, and deporting and executing those who resist. It was common to shoot the eldest son in front of the parents, or raping the female family members, these being the harmless atrocities, as there are accounts of terrible torture being committed on nuns and priests.
Concentration camps, the later vast Gulag system, started in 1918. In the cities and villages Lenin used mainly a system of spies, who would pretend to be counterrevolutionary, only to reveal being of the Tscheka and immediately shooting all those willing to resist, and it took until 1922, the end of the civil war, to subdue the Russian people, but that was only the start of their suffering, with Stalin succeeding Lenin. Both committed terrible atrocities and genocides, being responsible for 3 major famines with together 20 million victims, destroying many cultures sites as churches, and murdering up to 60 million (Solschenizyn). The most famous crime is the murder of the Romanov Family including the children, to cover their involvement in the downfall of Tartaria.

​
The German Empire proved to be even more resilient, and despite all efforts, financing its enemies and vicious propaganda, it couldn't be brought down by force, so it was ensured parallel efforts were made in Germany within by a group of a marxist socialists called Spartacus League within the SPD, later USPD, consisting of Luxemburg and Liebknecht, who tried to sabotage Germanys war effort, as early from 1914, first with rising resistance in the parliament, then through call for dissertation and ultimately instigating strikes, which culminated in the November Revolution. Under these circumstances, being betrayed from within, the OHL had to accept terms of surrender, but they only agreed to the terms of the initial Wilson Plan, and then were again betrayed with the Versaille Treaty, and the majority of Germans, even in the political parties, protested against it, as the Reich was split up, put under Sea blockade and humiliated, to lay the seeds for a radical communist takeover like in Russia.

​
The Versaille Treaty, and the rising threat of Communism, are the catalyst for the emergence of several war veteran groups, opposing against the Versaille treaty and the communist uprisings, called the Freikorps, the Thule Society and political parties, mainly the DVP, DNVP and DAP, which is the predecessor of the NSDAP, whose members like Hitler and especially Goebbels, while being opposed to the concept of International Socialism, still admired certain propaganda techniques, so they started applying socialist/communist methods, and the National Socialist German Workers Party emerged, as the only real querfront party, in the history of the World.

​

Hitlers Financiers


In the early days of the NSDAP from 1919-23 funding was sparsely and mostly from personal friends of Hitler and a few industries, and besides Ford as the largest international source, the main income were donations by own members. From 1925-30 he tried to attain more support from german businesses but with moderate success as most didn't like their socialist stance, and according to them didn't want to finance their own demise.
So still most of the income came from donations and merchandising, through contracts with small businesses, where they sold cigarettes and other stuff, which brought them 1,7 m. combined with the income of mass events in 1930, and the members fees accounted for 3,3 mil.

​
These funds were sufficient to cover the expenses of the election campaign and they managed to establish themselves as a mass phenomen and a serious candidate for power around 1930, and after that he was being considered by german industry, but whose overall amounts remained small compared to their donation to other parties.
This is presented by the revisionists Kosiek and Rose in the "Große Wendig", who based their research on the academic Guenther F. Schmidt.
It is the same time the popular marxist myth emerged, that Hitler was funded by the Capital, which was proven false by another academic called Turner, who backed up the financing, presented by Schmidt of the NSDAP with substantial evidence. His book caused a controversy among modern Historians, as it disproved the marxist theory.


_(Meaning of the Hitler greeting: little man is asking for big gifts)_​
1930 is also the time period, where according to some literature, a secret meeting with international bankers took place, so is this account true or a modern revise of the old marxist myth, that Hitler was the Agent of the Capital or the finance cartel that many genuine researchers fell for?
The main proponents of this theory are Stutton and Preparata, and many others followed their research, like Lina in Architects of Deception:






The person(s) Sydney Warburg, or whatever maybe behind the pseudonym, mentions 3 meetings between Hitler and the bankers, and large sums from 30 million, sometimes up to 100 million were transferred to Hitler. The problem with this theory, there is largely any hard evidence, to back up many of the alleged transactions and sums of that amount, as even Stutton, one of the main proponents of the theory, fails to prove the amount of money, described in the Warburg meetings:











There is evidence of indirect and direct donations from industry and international financiers, which is backed up by Turner and Schmidt, but the amounts of money, Hitler supposedly received by Sydney Warburg is not proven, and Stutton, while arguing the accounts are correct, still considers the fact, that this book might be a forgery.

So Hitler was in any case financially supported around 1930 either by german industry according to Turner/Schmidt/Kosiek or by the international finance according to Stutton/Preparata/Lina, as he more and more emerged as a serious candidate for taking power in Germany, But both match on the early financing, and the literature presents clearly, there is no evidence indicating he was an agent of the Illuminati, that was financed from the start, as they originally funded Communism/Marxism, and the theory he was approached around 1930 and heavily funded, cannot be backed up substantially either.

Still, the possibility that Hitler came in some form of contact is, even if it has to remain speculation, very likely and the more interesting question will be to see if he acted according to their wishes, as in either narrative the heavy german businesses, mainly Thyssen supported by Hindenburg, or the international bankers tried to tame and control Hitler.


Struggle for Power


The Weimarer Republic was a failed state from the beginning that was immediately subject to the cabals initial plan of implementing a communist regime with the Spartacus uprising in 1919, ending with the March Week, these are aftermath of the November Revolution, but still many other attempts followed. (Deutscher Obtober)
In 1919 the KPD was an already established party, consisting of 100000 members and funding from Moscow and international bankers. They brought a type of brutality to the streets, unknown before in Germany, as uprisings were fought fiercely and need to brought down with artillery. The defense minister of the Reich, Noske (SPD) issued the following order to stop the uprising:

_"Every person, found armed with weapons and fighting against government troops, is to be executed on sight!" _(Rose, Kosiek)

This means the communists brutality conditioned an early radicalization of the counter forces like the Freikorps, who murdered Liebknecht und Luxemburg as revenge for the uprising, and later attempted to gain power, first with the Kapp-Putsch and then the Hitler-Putsch.

That is also the reason, most larger parties, attained paramilitaric arms, as the Weimarer Republic was in a constant state of almost civil war. While the communist were infamous for attacking institutions of the state, the national socialists radicalized against the communists.
But the NSDAP started as the smaller group, and so they could sell themselves as martyrs, as indeed many Nationalsocialists were attacked and murdered by communists groups, the most famous example being Horst Wessel, so a vicious cycle of violence evolved, when the NSDAP started attacking and murdering communists too, similar to the Freikorps killing Luxemburg and Liebknecht as retaliation for the uprising.




​_1931 were killed or injured: 4699 National socialists, Stahlhelm 625, Reichsbanner 1696, Communists 1228. Perpetrators were National socialists in 2589 cases, Stahlhelm in 320 cases, Reichsbanner in 1884 cases and communists in 4184 cases._ (Rose, Kosiek)

This is also backed up when looking at the evolution of member numbers, which collaborates with the funding of both parties, the NSDAP has a steady growth, while the KPD already had many members in the beginning:






Link Link​

And as the NSDAP was growing stronger, many germans starting to hope this party could achieve, what the Weimarer Republic was incapable to do, establishing law and order again.
But the international bankers were controlling, what was happening, and even if they didn't finance Hitler, they sure did ease his way to power, by ensuring with the Dawes and Young Plan the financial dependency of the Weimarer Republic, further creating the great depression and withholding credits in time of need, and thus steering more and more people into the arms of radical parties. (Höfelbernd)

So, we can conclude for now, Hitler wasn't financed as a marionette from the beginning, and the NSDAP emerged largely self-funded. but he might have been approached around 1930 by the Illuminati to control him, because he showed promise as a potential candidate for power in Germany.
But did he fulfill the wishes of the people who liked to tame him, or had Hitler something different planed?

There is also a Video of this text, narrated by Ponygirl.


Part 2: The Third Reich
Part 3: The Second World War


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## Lightseeker (Mar 3, 2021)

All I know about the WWII is that the truth is certainly far more complex, and in any case way different from what we are taught at schools and in the movies.


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## luddite (Mar 3, 2021)

Great thread. Looking forward to part 2.

NOTE: topics of this nature have a tendency to induce high emotions. Please don't sink to that level. Remain civil and on topic.

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freygeist said:


> If there is one field of historic research, where the amount of contradicting data presented to us, surpasses any other event, it has to be the thematic complex of the Third Reich and Adolf Hitler.


This is absolutely true. The difficulty we have as a community is to be narrative adjacent. All narratives have some truth and together we may be able to paint a more reasonably consistent one. As has been pointed out regularly on SH and other places, the newspapers and textbooks that are used by researchers should be taken as potentially accurate. An example is this https://stolenhistory.net/threads/dr-hitler.2784/ where we have a newspaper elevating Adolf Hitler to Doctor status. Most researchers can show that AH never received a doctorate but it was still printed and no doubt believed by many readers at the time. Be wary of misdirection.


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## Onijunbei (Mar 3, 2021)

"So, we can conclude for now, Hitler wasn't financed as a marionette from the beginning "

how does one come to that conclusion?  What jobs did he have?  What positions did he hold?  I believe the OP mentions the Thule Society...
How does he afford lodging and food?
How does a Jewish looking guy from the Hapsburg Empire, which included Austria, get into the German Army?
Can we even collaborate the story that he was even in the Army?


"The most famous crime is the murder of the Romanov Family including the children, to cover their involvement in the downfall of Tartaria."

How do you know they were murdered?  Wasnt that family related to the Aristocracy of England?  Would England then help to finance the Zionist Movement....help Communism when it goes against the economics of England and all surrounding countries?  Doesnt the downfall of Tartaria occur many centuries before WW2?  Did Tartaria even have a unified government?

Isnt the main enemy of Germany...Russia, or the Soviet Socialists Republics?  How does one push National Socialism?

 What about the members of the NSDAP themselves?  What were their ties?  Where did they come from?  Who was financing them?  Who were they tied to and what affiliations did they have?  Did they come from Jewish or Masonic families?


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## Oracle (Mar 4, 2021)

A great start for discussion of this topic. Considering English is not your first language as well I am even more impressed with the presentation.



> The most famous example of this ambiguity is Dunkirchen, where Hitler let the British Army escape, which greatly angered his generals.



This is something when I first learned of it years after my mainstream education that quite surprised me and made me question  official modern history.
If I remember correctly from my reading at the time, he also offered peace terms 3 times in that same period and was rejected, something that culminated in the destruction of Dresden which seems very much like that was a goal from the beginning.



> Historical Background



That was a very good summary of the influence and behaviour of Communism at that time.
It has seemed to me that the destruction or ownership of the Royal houses was happening all over Europe prior to  ww1 and in Germany in particular efforts were further made to destroy the international trade efforts of the Kaiser which threatened the status quo of the monopoly of other european powers ( by whom the hidden hand benefited greatly).

With regard to the later infiltration of communism,
Here are some quotes from a commentary on the book Weimar Republic ,Promise or Tragedy by Eric Weitz



> The period in Germany from the end of World War I to the Nazi seizure of power is known as the Weimar era, after the Weimar Republic that was set up to govern the country after the revolution at the end of World War I. With the Kaiser gone,a whole new form of political life was created nearly from scratch; while this volatile period opened up myriad new possibilities, it eventually ended in the Nazi takeover of the country.
> 
> ........Weitz prefers to use standard political and economic explanations for the Nazi takeover, particularly the persistence of anti-democratic tendencies in major institutions and the level of tension and conflict involved in Weimar politics.
> 
> ...


I disagree with Weitz's assessment of native culture being based on film and radio and the sexual revolution though, these are the trademark weapons of communism for destruction of cultures as we see worldwide today.

Thanks for the links and information re Hitler's financial backing, I will look further into the subject.





Onijunbei said:


> Wasnt that family related to the Aristocracy of England? Would England then help to finance the Zionist Movement....help Communism when it goes against the economics of England and all surrounding countries?


I think most of us are aware that English Royality and government have been owned by the Zionists since at least the napeolianic wars.



> The brothers helped coordinate Rothschild activities across the continent, and the family developed a network of agents, shippers, and couriers to transport gold across war-torn Europe. The family network was also to provide Nathan Rothschild time and again with political and financial information ahead of his peers, giving him an advantage in the markets and rendering the house of Rothschild still more invaluable to the British government.
> In one instance, the family network enabled Nathan to receive in London the news of Wellington’s victory at the Battle of Waterloo a full day ahead of the government’s official messengers.Rothschild’s first concern on this occasion was to the potential financial advantage on the market which the knowledge would have given him; he and his courier did not immediately take the news to the government. It was then repeated in later popular accounts, such as that of Morton.The basis for the Rothschild’s most famously profitable move was made after the news of British victory had been made public. Nathan Rothschild calculated that the future reduction in government borrowing brought about by the peace would create a bounce in British government bonds after a two year stabilisation, which would finalise the post-war restructuring of the domestic economy. In what has been described as one of the most audacious moves in financial history, Nathan immediately bought up the government bond market, for what at the time seemed an excessively high price, before waiting two years, then selling the bonds on the crest of short bounce in the market in 1817 for a 40% profit. Given the sheer power of leverage the Rothschild family had at their disposal, this profit was an enormous sum.
> .....He gained a position of such power in the City of London that by 1825–6 he was able to supply enough coin to the Bank of England to enable it to avert a market liquidity crisis


 from Rothschilds knew Napoleon lost at Waterloo a day before everyone else



Onijunbei said:


> "So, we can conclude for now, Hitler wasn't financed as a marionette from the beginning "
> 
> how does one come to that conclusion?  What jobs did he have?  What positions did he hold?  I believe the OP mentions the Thule Society...
> How does he afford lodging and food?
> ...


As always (it seems to me) you offer good questions to help further analysis and discussion.


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## Lightseeker (Mar 4, 2021)

Onijunbei said:


> "So, we can conclude for now, Hitler wasn't financed as a marionette from the beginning "
> 
> how does one come to that conclusion?  What jobs did he have?  What positions did he hold?  I believe the OP mentions the Thule Society...
> How does he afford lodging and food?
> ...



Jewish-looking? There was nothing in Hitler's features that suggested a semitic background. Look at Freud, Adler, Fromm, Frank if you want to see what a real Austrian or German Jew looks like.


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## freygeist (Mar 4, 2021)

Onijunbei said:


> "So, we can conclude for now, Hitler wasn't financed as a marionette from the beginning "
> 
> how does one come to that conclusion?  What jobs did he have?  What positions did he hold?  I believe the OP mentions the Thule Society...
> How does he afford lodging and food?
> ...



You are right, there are many more questions open, but as stated in the OP, i first want to show, what can be backed by the academic and revisionist literature, that is how i came to the conclusion, feel free to present any books or articles that show otherwise.
About him being jewish, there is uncertainty about his paternal grandfather, where such speculation derives from like the theory about a certain jewish Frankenberger from Graz being the father of Alois Hitler. But these remain speculation, and aren't backed up by anything, not even in the revisionist literature, that presents him as a marionette.
He joined the bavarian army voluntarily, an independent army from the rest of the Reich, this was his regiment.
Not everything about him is a mystery.  He was a regular soldier in WWI, and like every other regular soldier after the war, he probably paid for food and lodging with money.


Onijunbei said:


> "The most famous crime is the murder of the Romanov Family including the children, to cover their involvement in the downfall of Tartaria."
> 
> How do you know they were murdered?  Wasnt that family related to the Aristocracy of England?  Would England then help to finance the Zionist Movement....help Communism when it goes against the economics of England and all surrounding countries?  Doesnt the downfall of Tartaria occur many centuries before WW2?  Did Tartaria even have a unified government?



About the Romanovs: The bolsheviks admitted their murder, but hid the truth about the children and it fits the overall brutality of the bolsheviks. There were rumors about a child that survived though.
Tartaria in this context meant the eastern part of the Old World, according to Formenko.



Onijunbei said:


> Isnt the main enemy of Germany...Russia, or the Soviet Socialists Republics?  How does one push National Socialism?
> 
> What about the members of the NSDAP themselves?  What were their ties?  Where did they come from?  Who was financing them?  Who were they tied to and what affiliations did they have?  Did they come from Jewish or Masonic families?




Some background on other important members like Göring, Himmler, Göbbels and Schacht will be covered, the first 3 parts are planned as an overview from the Weimarer Republic to the second World War. Part 4 will be about the Occult roots of national socialism, so hopefully by then some of your questions can be explored.


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## veeall (Mar 4, 2021)

I'm sure these belong to this thread: russian rubles with swastikas, from the year 1917, after Menshevik takeover of Czarist Russia.


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## JWW427 (Mar 4, 2021)

Hoo-Boy, big important OP here. But I'll crack the old knuckles and shoot back a whiskey...



• People readily forget that the Weimar Republic was a failure. Germans had never taken a stab at Democratic republic before. How to do it literally overnight? Big loans and debt slavery was the goal. Was this an agenda by the 1919 Paris Accords?

• The big multinational banks printed tons of money and bankrupted Weimar Germany by inflation. People starved. It could be considered a form of attempted genocide to a degree. (The stories of German sausage-makers using dog and human flesh may be correct).

• Did the PTB want and unstable Germany that was ripe for National Socialism as a bulwark against the bogeyman of Communism? Both Fascism and Communism were implemented by design, which is a clue.

• Was Hitler secretly chosen by the Thule Society (And certain aristocrats that admired the Theosophists and mystics) as an occult messiah savior?

• Why were colorful Nazi rituals, pageantry, and visual imagery based on the Teutonic Knights and the Lords of The Black Stone?

https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/sociopol_vril07.htm
• Could it be true that Hitler may have been Kaiser Wilhelm's illegitimate son? (Or a relation of some sort) So the royal bloodlines could continue to rule in absolute secrecy?

• Why was Heinrich Himmler so interested in the occult and alternative German ancestry and history? Why did he create a Reich Tibet Institute for visiting Tibetans? Why did Himmler create an Atlantis Institute in Bremen?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantis_House
• Did the Versailles Treaty pave the way for Germany to rearm in 1930 with brand new high tech weapon designs unlike all the other nations?
(Simplified question, there is much debate here).



• Were non-linear and quantum physics a priority for new weapons and possible Tesla-style free energy? Inventions that would free Germany from coal and foreign oil?

• Why did the Nazi Party make the 1933 Reichsmark value to be based on a man's work hours? Did they want to flip off the gold standard big banks and Illuminati PTB?

• Why did American Banks via Prescott Bush and others invest so heavily in Nazi Germany? Even my own family was involved in that skullduggery during the 1930s, but why?

• Did the aftermath of WW2 and Project Paperclip set the stage for what some historians call the "Fourth Reich?" Why were ex-Nazis put in positions of power at corporations, banks, military contractors, and NASA?

• IF... the wild side rumors and "outlandish" stories of a breakaway German civilization that exists out in nearby star systems are true (Neuschwabenlanders?), could we blame them for quietly leaving Earth? The Germans have been picked on since the age of the Roman Empire versus the Goths, Visigoths, and the Vandals. (The Scandinavian migration).

• Was the official narrative of the Third Reich demonized further (out of context) so that other nations could whitewash their own bloody histories of genocide, injustice, racial wars, religious enforcement, and conquest?

I don't admire Hitler, the Nazis, their harsh racial warlord ethos nor their industrialization of genocide, but Im assured the official narrative concerning the Third Reich is wrong. Every nation has blood on its hands, those who tell the lies and those who choose to be willfully ignorant. Yes, the Nazis fought the international banks and the worldwide Illuminati cabal, but they ended up being just as bad or worse. It's genuinely sad that the normal German population and military suffered for the cruel Nazi agenda.

No matter what regime or political party attains power the PTB in the shadows sets the world stage very carefully so the play turns out the same time and again, but a person must be able to clearly see the patient status quo regain strength over an extended period of time, but that takes great SH-style effort.
I believe these are intriguing questions for us to contemplate...






Halmar Schacht

 Nuremberg Trial Defendants: Hjalmar Schacht


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## freygeist (Mar 4, 2021)

JWW427 said:


> Halmar Schacht
> 
> View attachment 7170 Nuremberg Trial Defendants: Hjalmar Schacht



The freemason Schacht is certainly one of the key figures, and he is very likely the agent by the Illuminati used to control the Nazis. But there is more to his story, because he was fired later, and also associated with the assassination attempt 1944, some of this will be covered in the next parts.


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## Magnetic (Mar 4, 2021)

WWII was a long term play on enslaving Europe by the Soviet Union by the international bankers and their accomplices.  Sutton shows how American technology for war such as tanks was transferred to Red Russia wholesale while the USA only had few outdated tanks in its army.  A good example of this was a factory, the largest in the world, that was built by Ford to build tractors and tanks.  This special design one could switch from building tractors to building tanks immediately.  This one factory out produced the entire German industrial production of tanks!  The elite planned for war and as Stalin said, "Hitler would be the Ice Breaker", to destroy Western Europe's military then Soviet forces would blitzkrieg across the German borders with tanks, American designed, which would drop their tracks and use the good German roads to move quickly to overwhelm resistance.  The failed world revolution from the Soviet Union's defeat in Poland, and the failure of the communist revolutions after WWI in Germany and other western countries led to the bankers rapidly industrializing Russia in the 1930s to a war footing as a plan B.   Stalin supported Hitler and supported him financially with 40,000 Gold reichsmarks as a German general confessed to western allies after the end of the war.  Also, Stalin had the German communists stand down to allow the rise of Hitler's party.  Stalin dismantled three massive defensive lines behind rivers that would have protected the Soviet Union against western force incursion and developed weapons, tactics, and forces to launch offensives of an extremely aggressive nature.  For instance there was a force of one million men in the parachute corps!  The aircraft were going to be used to bomb and strafe air fields, and troop concentrations with massive paratroop drops behind enemy lines.  The historians who contradict this narrative are obvious fakirs of history and hired hands to deceive.  The banking elite and their minions lost control over the flow of events leading up to WWII and nearly lost their Frankenstein creation of the Soviet Union, but they ended up dividing Europe


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## matematik (Mar 4, 2021)

Reviving the Soviet Union still seems to be a big part of the globalists' agenda. Russia is now ruled by an ideology of Neo-Sovietism, rebranded the "Eurasian Union" and Soviet motifs remain very popular in Russia and are becoming ever more so. Duginism is an important part of this and very influential to Putin.

It's also odd that Russia is not vaccinating its own people despite producing and exporting "Sputnik V" to other countries, same with China. It would appear that Russians and Chinese being injected with this poison is not part of the agenda.


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## Catalyst (Mar 5, 2021)

I've been trying to understand the events of the 20th for many years and the latest findings about the old world have certainly added some clarity to the overall understanding. Here is what I've come to:

When the major takeover of our civilization happened (I always say that it happened ~200 years ago, but some may disagree) not all people accepted the defeat. The remaining forces of the old world just went underground and started preparing for retaliation. Most probably, they acted selectively and secretly, to avoid being detected and destroyed by the new power (which, without any doubts, would target them immediately). This is the main reason we have almost no traces of these actions. But the events of the 20th century, particularly the 2nd world war, seems to be the peak of this confrontation. No matter who tried to control and finance Germany and when, the participation of the old world representatives and supporters seems absolutely clear to me. Moreover, even the powers that initially supported the new order could at some point change their mind and act towards the return of the old world and rules (when they eventually realized to what madness the new dark force pushes our civilization).


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## freygeist (Mar 5, 2021)

Catalyst said:


> I've been trying to understand the events of the 20th for many years and the latest findings about the old world have certainly added some clarity to the overall understanding. Here is what I've come to:
> 
> When the major takeover of our civilization happened (I always say that it happened ~200 years ago, but some may disagree) not all people accepted the defeat. The remaining forces of the old world just went underground and started preparing for retaliation. Most probably, they acted selectively and secretly, to avoid being detected and destroyed by the new power (which, without any doubts, would target them immediately). This is the main reason we have almost no traces of these actions. But the events of the 20th century, particularly the 2nd world war, seems to be the peak of this confrontation. No matter who tried to control and finance Germany and when, the participation of the old world representatives and supporters seems absolutely clear to me. Moreover, even the powers that initially supported the new order could at some point change their mind and act towards the return of the old world and rules (when they eventually realized to what madness the new dark force pushes our civilization).



Yes, you are on to something, this is exactly what we will explore in part 4!


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## Onijunbei (Mar 6, 2021)

freygeist said:


> If there is one field of historic research, where the amount of contradicting data presented to us, surpasses any other event, it has to be the thematic complex of the Third Reich and Adolf Hitler.
> 
> There are roughly 4 narratives, that we know from literature. The medial or official narrative, paints Hitler as the ultimate evil, trying to conquer the world, and being responsible for terrible atrocities. The academic narrative tells essentially the same story, but is more differentiated and has many works with substantial sources.
> 
> ...


just saw this today....maybe you will include it in your research....and, Im glad you have taken an interest in the subject matter...

http://mileswmathis.com/hiller.pdf


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## SonofaBor (Mar 7, 2021)

Catalyst said:


> No matter who tried to control and finance Germany and when, the participation of the old world representatives and supporters seems absolutely clear to me.




Can you elaborate on your evidence? This is most interesting.


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## freygeist (Mar 7, 2021)

Onijunbei said:


> just saw this today....maybe you will include it in your research....and, Im glad you have taken an interest in the subject matter...
> http://mileswmathis.com/hiller.pdf



Some parts are a bit suggestive and he is jumping to many conclusions, but he overall made some fair points on certain members! Eichmann and Göbbels are the most strongest candidates for being jewish, imho.



tobyahnah said:


> Hitler was just a shill for the Vatican.




I would be careful with such statements.
We see this pattern often:

Hitler made a deal with the Zionist -> He is a Zionist
Hitler had a freemason working for him -> He is a freemason
Hitler had jewish Friends -> He is a jew
Hitler made a deal with the Vatikan -> He works for the Vatican
He let the British army escape -> He is a british agent
Hitler made a pact with Sovjet Russia -> He is a communist
Hitler made a deal with Muslims -> He wants Sharia Law

This is of course exaggerated, and many proponents of the agent theory are still making fair points, i'm just saying it's often not so simple...


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## Catalyst (Mar 7, 2021)

SonofaBor said:


> Catalyst said:
> 
> 
> > No matter who tried to control and finance Germany and when, the participation of the old world representatives and supporters seems absolutely clear to me.
> ...



The most obvious argument would be the ideas and people behind Thule and Vril society as well as Ahnenerbe. Their main purpose was to resurrect the old culture, traditions and technologies. They were the only and the last organization that tried to do it (and almost succeeded in doing so). Nobody speaks about these things now. Moreover, nowadays it is forbidden to say anything publicly or do official research in the areas even partially related to the ideas examined by these Nazi organizations. Areas like the white culture and white civilization (as a single cultural unit with a common history).

The presence of Thule/Vril society and Ahnenerbe behind a seemingly ordinary political power inevitably provokes a suspicion that some people, being at the right place and time, just used this whole situation in order to bring their ideas and plans to the table. I don't think that people like Hitler or his closest generals knew about all this stuff before they started their political career. My guess is that they were at some point of time approached by representatives of Thule/Vril society, and they made a deal to cooperate. The members of these secret societies were people who kept the knowledge of the old world. And not just some tiny bits that we are dealing with on websites like this, but REAL and PRACTICAL knowledge. It also explains why Nazis were given secret knowledge in places like Tibet (I doubt that they would give their knowledge to someone they didn't trust).

Even though the shadow government had their own plans for everything throughout the last two centuries, I highly doubt that they ever wanted to see the old world symbology or ideas behind a political and military power that was capable of conquering the whole planet. That's why everything related to them is banned and prohibited since the end of the 2nd world war. Even though Germany lost the war, they undeniably made a big cultural and historical influence (not trying to give here any moral evaluations, just stating the neutral fact), and it happened mostly or partially because of the Thule/Vril/Ahnenerbe followers executing some secret plan from the very beginning. And my guess is that what we currently know is only a tip of the iceberg.


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## dreamtime (Mar 7, 2021)

Catalyst said:


> When the major takeover of our civilization happened (I always say that it happened ~200 years ago, but some may disagree) not all people accepted the defeat. The remaining forces of the old world just went underground and started preparing for retaliation. Most probably, they acted selectively and secretly, to avoid being detected and destroyed by the new power (which, without any doubts, would target them immediately). This is the main reason we have almost no traces of these actions. But the events of the 20th century, particularly the 2nd world war, seems to be the peak of this confrontation. No matter who tried to control and finance Germany and when, the participation of the old world representatives and supporters seems absolutely clear to me. Moreover, even the powers that initially supported the new order could at some point change their mind and act towards the return of the old world and rules (when they eventually realized to what madness the new dark force pushes our civilization).



G.I. Gurdjieff was one of those who tried to find the "old-world representatives" in his travels.

In early adulthood, according to his own account, Gurdjieff's curiosity led him to travel to Central Asia, Egypt, Iran, India, Tibet and Rome before he returned to Russia for a few years in 1912. He was never forthcoming about the source of his teachings. The only account of his wanderings appears in his book Meetings with Remarkable Men. Most commentators leave his background unexplained, and Meetings is not generally considered to be a reliable or straightforward autobiography. Each chapter is named after an individual "remarkable man"; many are putatively members of a society of "seekers of truth".​​https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Gurdjieff#Travels​
It is said that he met Hitler at one point to discuss cooperating on certain ideas to bring back the esoteric teachings into society. He also found previously unknown maps of Africa without deserts, but thought it was a long time ago.

The 19th century I think was the time when some members of the old-world were still secretly fighting against the degeneracy, this was after an open war destroyed the forces of light in the 17th or 18th Century, so the few parts that survived had to hide underground. After the events of the 19th century, we can conclude that evil has basically won, currently. We are now in the clean-up phase, between the old and the new world order, this is now just about managing the transition into a materialistic soul-less world, there is no systemic opposition any longer. Of course their reign can end any time. Once their cycle is over, good will rise again.


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## 6079SmithW (Mar 7, 2021)

I am no expert on the OP. I have no political agenda, but I remember when David Irving was imprisoned - and vaporised from the net, just for saying that basically the allies lied and the war didn't go exactly the way we were told.

Truth prevail


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## freygeist (Mar 7, 2021)

Catalyst said:


> Update: *This thread seems to be going deeper into a toxic politically-oriented hole. I don't like this and won't participate in it any longer. I'm absolutely not interested in all these pointless arguments, nor in giving any kind of further evaluations of the 2nd world war, which is a very sensitive and controversial topic, both in terms of moral and legal side of the question. And I would also like to warn other people to beware of possible instigators who purposefully heat up the conversation in order to provoke other people and learn about their (possibly hidden) political views.*




I understand your reaction, but it would be a shame in further parts as your input is most valuable! Your theory is spot on, and further parts will be about backing it up!
If i can prove at least to some extent through the revisionist and academic literature, that Hitler was not an agent of the masons/illuminati, or it simply doesn't make sense, your theory is on even more solid ground, but for that i have to get through the most controversial parts first.

P.S. Another reason why i think this whole "Hitler is same bloodline as every other bad guy", without any differentiation, is detrimental to our research, because it diminishes the fact, that there were two opposing forces.
Just one example, even if most important members of the nazis were jewish or freemasons, or whatever, does is change the fact, that there were two sides fundamentally opposed to each other?
If Hitler was part of the cabal, then there isn't anything more to say deeper about it, he was just another scumbag like Stalin, Roosevelt, all the same clique.
We don't need to ask ourselves, why there were two forces, where did they came from, and how do they relate to the fall of the old world. Its just all the same. That's why i think this is another modern ploy to veil the truth about our history.


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## SonofaBor (Mar 7, 2021)

Trivia question: Was the Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg event a false flag?


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## 6079SmithW (Mar 7, 2021)

Just to compound this issue further, we all keep refering to the British powers and the German powers....

Well, after learning lots over the years from historians like Wilson and Blackett...

It's the German royals (Coburg Gothas) that run Britain, not the real Brits (Welsh).

So were the Germans (British royals) fighting themselves?

Edit to correct typo


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## Catalyst (Mar 7, 2021)

freygeist said:


> Catalyst said:
> 
> 
> > Update: *This thread seems to be going deeper into a toxic politically-oriented hole. I don't like this and won't participate in it any longer. I'm absolutely not interested in all these pointless arguments, nor in giving any kind of further evaluations of the 2nd world war, which is a very sensitive and controversial topic, both in terms of moral and legal side of the question. And I would also like to warn other people to beware of possible instigators who purposefully heat up the conversation in order to provoke other people and learn about their (possibly hidden) political views.*
> ...



Well, frankly speaking, I like the fact that topics like this emerge and when the traditional mainstream view is questioned. And I'm glad it was cleaned a bit so we don't have to get into heated political debates with untrustworthy people. But for now, unfortunately, I really don't have anything else valuable to say. Though I have some material that I would like to share soon, partially related to this whole topic. It is quite unusual, and very few people have probably heard of it. But it's relatively short, and not my original finding (it will be a translation of one article in Russian).

And concerning controversial topics, I would like to point out again - be very careful about what you write/post and say. There is no such a thing as anonymity in internet in 2021. Everything is controlled and recorded, and will be used against you if/when there will be such a need (I hope you understand what I mean).


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## matematik (Mar 7, 2021)

6079SmithW said:


> So were the Germans (British royals) fighting themselves?



Changing their name to Windsor during WW1 is also very suspicious, presumably done to prevent people asking that question.
I also find it strange why the English are treated as a separate group to the Germanics, against the linguistic and genetic evidence. 

The vast majority of English people would not regard WW1 and WW2 as fratricidal wars because they don't see themselves as having any connection to Germany. I don't know whether most Germans would see it in the same way or not.


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## Sasyexa (Mar 10, 2021)

This topic is this bloated by design. A pivotal historical moment, when attempted to be explored, traps people in researching only this topic. A sort of gatekeeper to all the SH stuff. 
I exclude the freemasonic connection with NSDAP because of their later actions:
Destructions of all the lodges they could get their hands on
~200000 masons killed in the war (including 2 Rothschilds)
Rejection of the global banking system
Anti-masonic propaganda in France
Their ties with the Vatican (Catholics and Freemasons vehemently hate each other, despite being two sides of the same coin).
I don't know the extent to which they were aligned though. Considering the things expressed by @Catalyst 
Their Christianity reforms, resurrection of old holidays, Muslims in the army, rejection of Christianity by Himmler (It probably was in favor of views expressed by this book, which is often called Himmler's bible. I've heard their expeditions in Asia involved finding Finda's tomb and that it was found). 
Also comes into question the Vatican itself. Pope Pius XII was Hitler's ally, and after his death the agenda of Roman Catholic Church started to resemble the Illuminati one. So was it 100% the same as the 16th(?) century Vatican? This I don't know. 
I'm also interested in the truthfulness of the Slav narrative. I know about Hitler's negative stance, but the ideology considered them Aryan too. German army is remembered fondly in Ukraine, not so much in Belarus. Is it just the later propaganda or actual deliberate atrocities with the purpose to further destroy Slavic history? I don't know this too
Anyway, good post, OP
May this site not be shoa'd/further gaslighted/trolled/derailed/diluted/slided. This topic tends to do it, after all


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## matematik (Mar 12, 2021)

Sasyexa said:


> German army is remembered fondly in Ukraine, not so much in Belarus. Is it just the later propaganda or actual deliberate atrocities with the purpose to further destroy Slavic history? I don't know this too



The conflict between Russia and Ukraine seems to have something to do with this as well. I've heard Russian nationalists say that Ukraine is an artificial nation created by Germany in the early 1900s, presumably to weaken Russia, whereas I've heard Ukrainian nationalists say that Ukraine is the true successor to the Kievan Rus and it's Russia that is the artificial nation.


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## freygeist (Jun 15, 2021)

There is now also a video of the text available, produced and narrated by @Ponygirl, who had the idea of making a video, so i really want to thank her for doing this! She is planning to do the next parts also, and they will be added to the OP of each parts.


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ_z9Vtdhyo_


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## dreamtime (Jun 15, 2021)

mirrored


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9auedfkPF4M_​


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## luddite (Jun 17, 2021)

@freygeist and @Ponygirl I commend you both on a job well done. I watched this today and was very impressed and look forward to the next installments!


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## Roxy (Jun 20, 2021)

I'm sorry but I can't find what PTB stands for??? Can someone please fill me in ? Thank you


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## Jd755 (Jun 20, 2021)

Roxy said:


> I'm sorry but I can't find what PTB stands for??? Can someone please fill me in ? Thank you


*P*owers *T*hat *B*e


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## huskofahuman (Sep 1, 2021)

In my eyes clearly, what's happening is an Asiatic takeover of Europe which has been happening for a very long time.   The masonic temples are sometimes named Grand lodge of the Orient, for instance, I don't know of any that are actually called Grand Lodge of the Occident.  Muslims and the Golden Horde have been trying to take over Europe for a very long time, as well as the Persian Empire.  Who is to say that hasn't continued since the Persian times, what we've been seeing may be a continuation.  The whole thing with Bulgaria not accepting migrants and Muslims is very suspicious as well, they are part of the EU also but they seem to have a leverage power that goes along with the whole plan of whatever is going on. Victor Orban would have been assassinated by now if he weren't working for the power structure.  Then we have the oddity of Kazahkstan with all its new buildings and statues which look inspired by Freemasonry.  With the massive slave trades of the past going on, I don't see it out of the picture to breed with people who might be your enemy to disguise yourself as a Trojan horse and then take over from within.  This also brings the idea of clones into the picture.  What if some of these people were some sort of clones also, genetically engineered to be a sort of Trojan horse.  Empires of the past were also known to move whole populations of their enemies into other populations of their enemies to create a buffer so they would be at each other's necks and not at the true oppressor's necks.
Notice the last name of this woman.  
_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIivq4_VSZY_
   Also you might know the name of the mayor in London bearing the same last name, most likely not by accident.

I find this whole thing fascinating that almost all media and sources report nothing about the migrant invasion in any western nation and how they have sewed everything up so well.  Considering we have the internet, almost everyone should know about what's going on and what can happen to others in the future.  In their defense, they have our militaries making themselves look like the bad guy, doing their dirty work for them, which who knows how long this may have been going on in the last 1-2,000 years.


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## Lightseeker (Sep 1, 2021)

huskofahuman said:


> In my eyes clearly, what's happening is an Asiatic takeover of Europe which has been happening for a very long time.   The masonic temples are sometimes named Grand lodge of the Orient, for instance, I don't know of any that are actually called Grand Lodge of the Occident.  Muslims and the Golden Horde have been trying to take over Europe for a very long time, as well as the Persian Empire.  Who is to say that hasn't continued since the Persian times, what we've been seeing may be a continuation.  The whole thing with Bulgaria not accepting migrants and Muslims is very suspicious as well, they are part of the EU also but they seem to have a leverage power that goes along with the whole plan of whatever is going on. Victor Orban would have been assassinated by now if he weren't working for the power structure.  Then we have the oddity of Kazahkstan with all its new buildings and statues which look inspired by Freemasonry.  With the massive slave trades of the past going on, I don't see it out of the picture to breed with people who might be your enemy to disguise yourself as a Trojan horse and then take over from within.  This also brings the idea of clones into the picture.  What if some of these people were some sort of clones also, genetically engineered to be a sort of Trojan horse.  Empires of the past were also known to move whole populations of their enemies into other populations of their enemies to create a buffer so they would be at each other's necks and not at the true oppressor's necks.
> Notice the last name of this woman.
> _View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIivq4_VSZY_
> Also you might know the name of the mayor in London bearing the same last name, most likely not by accident.
> ...





huskofahuman said:


> In my eyes clearly, what's happening is an Asiatic takeover of Europe which has been happening for a very long time.   The masonic temples are sometimes named Grand lodge of the Orient, for instance, I don't know of any that are actually called Grand Lodge of the Occident.  Muslims and the Golden Horde have been trying to take over Europe for a very long time, as well as the Persian Empire.  Who is to say that hasn't continued since the Persian times, what we've been seeing may be a continuation.  The whole thing with Bulgaria not accepting migrants and Muslims is very suspicious as well, they are part of the EU also but they seem to have a leverage power that goes along with the whole plan of whatever is going on. Victor Orban would have been assassinated by now if he weren't working for the power structure.  Then we have the oddity of Kazahkstan with all its new buildings and statues which look inspired by Freemasonry.  With the massive slave trades of the past going on, I don't see it out of the picture to breed with people who might be your enemy to disguise yourself as a Trojan horse and then take over from within.  This also brings the idea of clones into the picture.  What if some of these people were some sort of clones also, genetically engineered to be a sort of Trojan horse.  Empires of the past were also known to move whole populations of their enemies into other populations of their enemies to create a buffer so they would be at each other's necks and not at the true oppressor's necks.
> Notice the last name of this woman.
> _View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIivq4_VSZY_
> Also you might know the name of the mayor in London bearing the same last name, most likely not by accident.
> ...



Khan is a very common surname in Asia. 
More than Asiatic takeover of Europe, it is rather a islamization of Western Europe. Here in Poland I barely see any non-white foreigners, and not because I live in a small city.

Europeans for the most part don't seem interested in keeping traditions, religion and most importantly, their own nations alive. Can you blame immigrants for that? No. You can only blame those who engineered the propaganda, but also those who have let the propaganda consume their minds.


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## huskofahuman (Sep 1, 2021)

Lightseeker said:


> Khan is a very common surname in Asia.
> More than Asiatic takeover of Europe, it is rather a islamization of Western Europe. Here in Poland I barely see any non-white foreigners, and not because I live in a small city.
> 
> Europeans for the most part don't seem interested in keeping traditions, religion and most importantly, their own nations alive. Can you blame immigrants for that? No. You can only blame those who engineered the propaganda, but also those who have let the propaganda consume their minds.


Still, something doesn't add up.  I think I have a pretty good idea of what's going on.  Obviously, it's something that lies in the past.  It just appears that the general populace hasn't kept any good intelligence from the past for them to know.  The British Empire couldn't be so retarded to control so much territory and then just cede everything and fight two devastating wars.  It's obvious they were set up.  It's definitely an empire hopping that's taking place at the least.  I think more people care but they are totally silenced and have no way to really say anything.   I'm at the point I don't really care too much either.  The whole media platform is totally controlled, and the people in power aren't the kindest.   Santos Bonacci explains fairly well what's going on as well.
“Out of the eater, something to eat; out of the strong, something sweet.”


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## Broken Agate (Sep 4, 2021)

freygeist said:


> there is one field of historic research, where the amount of contradicting data presented to us, surpasses any other event, it has to be the thematic complex of the Third Reich and Adolf Hitler.


 It says something about the power of the world controllers that we know so little about something that happened less than 80 years ago. I mean, thousands of volumes have been written about WW2, yet there is still a great deal of controversy and disagreement over nearly every aspect of it. The same can be said for all of history, really; we've been told very little truth and gave to piece it together ourselves. I hated history class in school. It was so boring, and it seemed pointless to memorize all the  names, dates, events, etc. Probably just as well that I wasn't that good at it, because now I have to re-learn everything, anyway.


veeall said:


> I'm sure these belong to this thread: russian rubles with swastikas, from the year 1917, after Menshevik takeover of Czarist Russia.
> 
> View attachment 7142
> 
> View attachment 7143​


So, swastikas were used in Russia well prior to WW2? I don't remember learning of this in school, it always seemed like the swastika was used by Hitler, and teachers never explained that it was actually an ancient symbol of good fortune and prosperity, used all over the world. I didn't learn that until years after I had graduated high school.


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## iamian36 (Sep 5, 2021)

Roxy said:


> I'm sorry but I can't find what PTB stands for??? Can someone please fill me in ? Thank you





kd-755 said:


> *P*owers *T*hat *B*e


Then we have TPTB to Rule the PTB


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## Gladius (Sep 5, 2021)

Broken Agate said:


> The same can be said for all of history, really; we've been told very little truth and gave to piece it together ourselves. I hated history class in school. It was so boring, and it seemed pointless to memorize all the  names, dates, events, etc. Probably just as well that I wasn't that good at it, because now I have to re-learn everything


As a person who was "good" at history class, I can tell you I hated it just the same. I extensively self-learned the school books during the lessons. Even for being narrative-base, some had really extraordinary writings and artist impressions - However the teachers would spend an entire year discussing the types of Greek vases,when the book has a whole Roman saga to be learned.

I recall Middle Ages classes as being entirely about putting the emphasis on how "backwarded" they were. Only the suffering and challenges of people would be described,  a mere transition before the wonderful modern era.
Knowing (and believing) the narrative so well is one reason why I got attracted to alt history and why it all made sense to me very quickly.

Point is I think it's absurd to see how much TPTB invest in creating narratives, and how much their education system doesn't even give two shits about the content they provided themselves. It's as if they know it's not real, and disrespect it in a way.

WW2 wise, it mainly shows in the education system's emphasis on teaching order of battles or other statistical info, rather than understand the powers and motives at work.


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## zwiloe (Sep 18, 2021)

what none of you thinks about:
maybe AH was a good...
germany was the last bulwark of europe against bolshevism.
everything you say about the 3rd reich is a lie. germany should have been destroyed before the 1st wk. see cecil rhodes. why?
it is interesting to look at the wikipedia page on Rudolf von Sebottendorf in the different languages. especially the turkish describes something completely different....
why? what does it say?
yes, there were crimes. but here look carefully: who did it and why. what were the circumstances, who was involved.
here, the german "resistance" must be looked at very closely, and also the red band. the effects were devastating.
read the following book: Roth, Heinz - Resistance in the Third Reich (1976)
Leers, Johann von - Reichsverräter 1-3
what happened after the war?
what was done with germany?
why were almost all NS persecuted and killed by the allies?
it is worth listening very carefully to the statements of whiliam toel regarding bletchely pakr.
the picture completes itself.
why did the germans get the technology for so many developments and from whom?
2014 - Valery Uvarov - On the tracks of our history [interview; video].
you forget that there is also a light side that does something....
who or what is germany to the world and why?


an was niemand vo euch denkt:
vielleicht war AH ein guter...
deutschland war das letzte bollwerk europas gegen den bolschewismus.
alles was man über das 3. reich sagt ist gelogen. deutschland sollte schon vor dem 1. WK verichtet werden. siehe cecil rhodes. warum?
es ist interessant die wikipedia seite zu Rudolf von Sebottendorf in den versciedenen sprachen anzusehen. vor allem die türkische beschreibt etwas völlig anderes....
warum? was steht denn  da?
ja, es gab verbrechen. hier aber genau schauen: wer hat es getan und warum. welche umstände waren es, wer war daran beteiligt.
hier muss der deutsche "widerstand" sehr genau betrachtet werden und auch die rote kapelle. die auswirkungen waren gevierend.
folgendes buch lesen: Roth, Heinz - Widerstand im Dritten Reich (1976)
Leers, Johann von - Reichsverräter 1-3
was geschah nach dem krieg?
was wurde mit deutschland gemacht?
warum wurden fast alle NS von den allierten verfolgt und getötet?
es lohnt sich dazu die aussagen von whiliam toel in bezug auf bletchely pakr sehr genau anszuhören.
das bild vervollständigt sich.
wieso haben die deutschen die technologie für so viele entwicklungen bekommen und von wem?
2014 - Valery Uvarov - Auf den Spuren unserer Geschichte [interview; Video]
ihr vergesst, dass es auch eine lichte seite gibt, die etwas tut...
wer oder was ist deutschland für die welt und warum?


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## Promethium (Sep 28, 2021)

Anywhere and everywhere since the time this world was created there has been only one order, one ruler and one plan in action which continues to this day and will continue until the end of this world. All these "regimes" all these brands and labels are nothing but political entertainment used as entourage to this older. People placed in positions of influence were there only because they were a part of the plan, all of it completely controlled and without any other intention but to further the plan forward. 

Anyone who is looking at history from some sort of a romantic or sentimental perspective is simply entertaining himself with fantasies which feed some sort of a belief which was carefully fed to him by the handlers of human stock. There were never any great heroes of the people. Anyone who was painted as one, either by official media or the renegades, in reality wasn't anything but a character created on paper for mass consumption. In reality none of them were of any significance either to the people or the system itself. They simply did what they were told and if they refused to do it for some reason, then they would be replaced by someone who wouldn't refuse.

Glorifying historical figures is nothing but playing right into the hands of the plan. They need you to have idols, they need you to have dreams and hope. They want you to think about some sort of an ideal life that could have been but never came, because "enemies were always at the gates" and the "great hero" was always trying to defend against them, leading the people into the battle. But the hero according to the plan always falls and the imposter always rises and gets all the praise. In reality it's just a show. Circus. Everyone is an actor. Everything is scripted. For one reason - to keep the people cheering for the show, so they would be mesmerized by the show and never walk away from it to see what's going on outside the theater. Actually whoever tries to walk away.. usually ends up persecuted or dead.

So, for as long as you play their game, as long as you spend hundreds of hours circle jerking one of these "hero" themes or trying to imagine how it could have been if something you believe in was the mainstream, for so long the system will remain undisturbed. They want you to research their history. They want you to pick a side and spend your life cheering for it, because all of it is a part of the show. Everyone is a part of the show as long as you play it by their rules.

System doesn't care for people, it only cares for the actors, making sure everyone plays their part according to the plan. Those who must die will die, those who are designed to survive will do so as well. This is what it was all about since the beginning. There were no great men or anything great at all. The world we live in isn't great, never was great and there's no possibility for it to ever become great. It's a factory. It's a death trap with only one way to escape from it. The way is hidden and protected by the system itself. It's not on the maps and anyone who tries looking for it will be destroyed. No one will make it out and if anyone does it will be the only miracle this world will ever see. The reality is grim if you were to know it. Anyone who saw it lost all hope and respect for humans, because humans have one one purpose - to serve and to die. There is nothing else for us within this plan. No great journeys and no greatness. As much as we can try to do our best and be great for our own sake, the system will make sure we never rise above what was written in the plan. We have been handed the technology just so we could perform our duties well and that's about as much as we can rise before we are cast down back into the dust.


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## Silveryou (Sep 28, 2021)

So this is an aspect of the discussion that needs to be addressed. I have repeatedly noticed that the first way to disprove an alternative look at WW2 is to come up with arguments such as:


Promethium said:


> All these "regimes" all these brands and labels are nothing but political entertainment used as entourage to this older.





Promethium said:


> People placed in positions of influence were there only because they were a part of the plan, all of it completely controlled and without any other intention but to further the plan forward.


The list could go on and on...

Even though at first glance these comments are logical and based on common sense, they don't bring anything to the table and are usually used on social medias as the first step to invalidate different points of view.
You ALWAYS find this 'depression vibe' comments under WW2 alternative points of view which risk to subvert the current narrative of the Allies as great heroes saving the world by bringing democracy and communism.
They are generally followed by comments such "the Nazees blablabla... Antarctic blablabla... NASA blablabla... Homosexual Mustache blablabla", all founded on pure speculation without any substantial evidence. And meanwhile the evidence presented in the post is set aside and the main purpose of the discussion is changed.
Then another kind of comments pops up such as "You Fasssscist, Nazeeeests, Anti-semiticssssts, Mustache Apologistssssts etc." At that point the discussion is suppressed and the initial comment deleted.

Is it possible to avoid these 'whatever comments' and speak instead of the evidence presented in the OP? Does it hurt so much to see that those Junior school tales are just exquisite pieces of propaganda?

So I want to ask @freygeist if he wants to speak about one of the most important events happened in that time period, in my opinion: the arrest of Louis Nathaniel de Rothschild (Louis Nathaniel de Rothschild - Wikipedia). Funny to see how the wiki article is translated only in 6 languages: English, العربية, Deutsch, Hrvatski, Italiano, مصرى... and a specific article on the arrest is nowhere to be found!

This is one of those subjects which irritates brainwashed people so much... *Big Mustache arrested a Wrathchild, the only one in known history to do it!!!*

It would be a pleasure to know more about it AND annoy the sheep a little bit!


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## Will Scarlet (Sep 28, 2021)

Personally, I much prefer being a romantic, sentimental fantasist than a miserable, defeatist coward just waiting for Armageddon - to my mind that's really falling for 'the plan'.



Silveryou said:


> one of the most important events happened in that time period, in my opinion: the arrest of Louis Nathaniel de Rothschild



An interesting event indeed:






Personally, I think it was a massive hoax and simply a way of covering up a huge Rothschild's donation to the NSDAP. I mean, they released him afterwards they didn't put him in a 'concentration' camp - they released him and nothing happened... apart from the agreement between them to send Jews to colonise Israel of course.


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## Silveryou (Sep 28, 2021)

Will Scarlet said:


> Personally, I think it was a massive hoax and simply a way of covering up a huge Rothschild's donation to the NSDAP. I mean, they released him afterwards they didn't put him in a 'concentration' camp - they released him and nothing happened... apart from the agreement between them to send Jews to colonise Israel of course.


All of this leads to Argentina and ultimately Antarctica. I know how much this is one of the favourite themes on conspiracy theories' websites, but it is nonetheless used to subtly justify the Allies' intervention under the command of the Rottenchildren. Most of the time this happens at a subconscious level.
I personally don't see why Mustache should have done all of this, while the even bigger financial help to the Bolsheviks happened almost under the sun, with Trotsky befriending the banksters and being a certified Jew, contrary to Musty who certainly didn't love that particular kin. So I still think that compromise, the political art, was at the base of that event. I understand that an extreme and controversial figure such that of BM can be subjected to any kind of speculation, but why trying to say that he is(was) alive after WW2 if not for trying to justify that single event? Isn't it much more easy to say that he tried a compromise that could 'free' Germany from _their _influence? One could say this is a silly thought, but I think he was well aware he was against half the world... that was common knowledge. So giving a try and hoping in a good result could be a viable strategy, imo.
In any case it has to be remembered that the pact to colonize modern Israel was achieved inside the British Empire and anti-semitic laws were inacted by USSR _before _Hitler came to power. So I still think that Germany had to be removed since Germans had discovered the 'truth' after the special WW1 treatment. Those Germans formed their party to get in the way of the international oligarchy's plan.
Isn't it similar to our current covid thing? I see a lot of people speaking of things just a few people spoke about just 2 years ago. And these people are frequently labeled 'fascists' or 'nazis' by social media platforms, with possible contempt on the part of those who feel offended since they fought against the eeeevil nazeeees to free the world. I have to say that social medialites get a point here. They are the true liberal-commies, so much more than those with red flags upon their beds. And the rest are fascists, even though they don't know, which is a true benefit for the PPTTBBBPTBPTT.

In any case I would like to know the German point of view, meaning with this some newspaper articles or researches done in Germany on the subject. I wonder if something new or different could come out.


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## Will Scarlet (Sep 28, 2021)

Silveryou said:


> Isn't it much more easy to say that he tried a compromise that could 'free' Germany from _their _influence?



Are you talking about the kidnapping scenario here? If so, then absolutely yes. It was the ideal solution to the age old 'Jewish Problem', but I would imagine that Rothschild made it a condition of his financial aid that it was presented as an act of intimidation rather than an open donation. That's what I meant by "a hoax," maybe I should have been more explicit - sorry.

I don't quite follow how this would lead to Argentina and Antarctica though.

The British Secret Service was up to its neck in the Russian Revolution and the vast majority of the new Soviet government (or whatever they called it) was comprised of Jews from New York, USA. The creation of Israel was also a British achievement following the Rothschild's Balfour Agreement blackmail during WWI - not forgetting that Churchill was Zionist and a Jew himself... and a traitor just like his great great grandfather. The Treaty of Versailles was barbaric and that's where I see the similarity with the COVID plandemic - it brought a permanent 'State of Emergency' down on Germany and a 'New Normal' for all Germans - especially those who then found themselves outside of Germany.



Silveryou said:


> Those Germans formed their party to get in the way of the international oligarchy's plan.



When 'the worm turned', as it surely would, then finance for the NSDAP arrived from the same sources that had been holding German by the b*llox since the Treaty. Hence the 65 thousand dollar questions: who knew about what and who was in bed with whom? Then when you bring Mussolini and Franco into the picture it gets even more complicated. (Don't worry, I'm not going to even attempt to answer either of those questions )

Those three men - Hitler, Mussolini and Franco - have been utterly denigrated and made into demons to be hated and despised for all time. They even dug Franco's body up a while ago just to be even more vindictive. The 'great unwashed' as we are known, have been thoroughly conditioned to be ninjas in the hating and despising department. Then you get all the Fourth Reich stuff with their flying saucers, bases on the Moon, blah blah blah...

It's a total  mess. What chance does anyone have of sorting all of that out? Maybe there were so many different agendas going on at once that it really was all just complete and utter confusion that now has no sense to be found in it whatsoever and probably didn't have much more back then either.


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## Silveryou (Sep 28, 2021)

Will Scarlet said:


> Are you talking about the kidnapping scenario here? If so, then absolutely yes. It was the ideal solution to the age old 'Jewish Problem', but I would imagine that Rothschild made it a condition of his financial aid that it was presented as an act of intimidation rather than an open donation. That's what I meant by "a hoax," maybe I should have been more explicit - sorry.


To explain it better: I don't really think there was a hoax or covering up. If the NSDAP took money (not verified though and these threads give a better explanation, imo), then it acted as every other political subject fully 'immersed' in a context where money was already in the firm hand of the Rothschilds. The passage of power from the previous aristocracy to the new one happened in the 19th century (with many people of the old guard jumping on the new bandwagon -learned the word from you Will).
But in any case the question is whether the cover up would have been necessary in the first place. Who *should not* have known about it? Obviously not the head of the party, that would have been impossible. Maybe the bulk of the party? The militia? If so, then why the one exposing it was a guy named Sydney Warburg? If it is a real name, then it is suspicious and unbelievable, since that would amount to a confession of guilt by a member of the 'families'! And if it's a deep fake then this is someone who is actually trying to put the 'families' in a bad light and striking the nazeeees at the same time. This is much more likely, since the modern world is now divided in two factions at war with each other but both against the eeeevil nazeeees.

In terms of propaganda the 'cover up/hoax' plot makes no sense to me, imo. There really is no need to cover up anything since we live in a world where you can't really talk about these things, since there is a socially democratic progressive _censorship. _In fact I would say that the 'cover up/hoax theory' is the real cover up. To sum it up:

narrative: nazeeees bad, eeeeeevil mustache;
counter-narrative: behind the motivations for the intervention (many of which made their way in people consciousness only after many years... of preparation, I would say) there were economic reasons. And also the very important reason to preserve power, since the families are behind most of the events of the 19th century, but their name is nowhere to be seen. Hitler took prisoner the Robschild and exchanged him with a huge sum of money. Taking him prisoner or 'sending him to concentration camps' makes no sense, since he was arrested in 1938, while WW2 began in 1939;
counter-counter-narrative: the nazis arrested and then left him go and this is proof they received payment.
The third line clearly helps the first one and this is why it doesn't sound well with me. The third line (counter-counter-narrative) is also openly discussed on many social media, with little to no censorship, while the second one (counter-narrative) is totally censored everywhere. That settles it for me!



Will Scarlet said:


> I don't quite follow how this would lead to Argentina and Antarctica though.


Following what I have said just now, it is obvious that Hitler could not die according to the counter-counter-narrative. He was the secret Ally of the Allies. A sort of King of Kings of eeeevil. Therefore it is necessary to this narrative to keep him alive somewhere. Why not Argentina? Those Catholic nazeeees scumbags want their islands back? Let's give them some iron and mustaches!

Obviously Will and everybody, I am not saying anything to promote the stupid brotherly war (Falkland reference).


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## freygeist (Sep 30, 2021)

Silveryou said:


> So I want to ask @freygeist if he wants to speak about one of the most important events happened in that time period, in my opinion: the arrest of Louis Nathaniel de Rothschild (Louis Nathaniel de Rothschild - Wikipedia). Funny to see how the wiki article is translated only in 6 languages: English, العربية, Deutsch, Hrvatski, Italiano, مصرى... and a specific article on the arrest is nowhere to be found!
> 
> This is one of those subjects which irritates brainwashed people so much... *Big Mustache arrested a Wrathchild, the only one in known history to do it!!!*
> 
> It would be a pleasure to know more about it AND annoy the sheep a little bit!



I plan to adress this whole angle, who was on which side, further in the next part. There is not much information about this specific abduction though, even in german literature.
But the bigger problem is, i have to work two jobs now because of the corona measures, so i rarely have the time and energy to focus on the subject. Hopefully, when the winter comes, i can get back at it.


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## Will Scarlet (Sep 30, 2021)

I have found some information on the 'colonists for Palestine' issue in a book entitled "The Secret Contacts-Zionism And Nazi Germany 1933-1941. I haven't read it all, so I don't know if it covers the kidnapping, but it may give a clue as to why Rothschild didn't want the Haavara scheme made common knowledge. On the other hand the two events may not be related at all:

"This also resulted in "selectiveness." As the agreement demanded a minimum payment of a thousand pounds from the emigrant, only members of the .Jewish bourgeoisie were able to avail themselves of its advantages, while workers of Jewish origin were left to their fate.™ Thus in a recent examination of fascist racial policy, the following evaluation of the Haavara agreement can be considered perfectly just: "The solidarity principle that required the Jews in Germany to stand against their persecutors was torn asunder by capitalist interests. _Pecunia nanolet_. Meanwhile, the measures undertaken by Jewish contractors with the sole aim of bringing capital out of fascist Germany to Palestine were receiving a high degree of consecration. It was claimed that the capital brought over to the Near East was placed at the service of the Jews. In reality however, in Palestine it served the same purpose as it did before in Germany: the profit interests of its owners.

"The same book affirms that "the Zionist International wanted the Jewish emigrants from Germany to arrive on Palestinian soil not as have-nots, but as owners of capital that would help in the building of a capitalist state. Out of this desire, grew the Zionist interest to unite themselves with the anti-Semites. Indeed, prior to the (founding of Israel, the Haavara transfer was a
huge booster for the Zionist economy in Palestine. Zionist sources speak oi a sum of 1 39.6 million Reichmarks — an enormous sum for that time--being transferred from Germany to Palestine."


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## Silveryou (Sep 30, 2021)

freygeist said:


> There is not much information about this specific abduction though, even in german literature.





Will Scarlet said:


> I don't know if it covers the kidnapping


The use of the term _abduction _and _kidnapping_ is very suspect, imo. It was an _arrest_, why calling it an abduction if not to put in bad light the abducter? Quite convenient!
The disappearance of information is even more suspect. The tecnique of losing primary sources and then casually finding them after many years is renown. There is plenty of time to fabricate new 'evidence'.


Will Scarlet said:


> a clue as to why Rothschild didn't want the Haavara scheme made common knowledge


I have not read the book too, but I want to say that here as much as in every other aspect, the Rothschild simply could not show publicly the undergoing agreements, since the soon-to-be-Israel had already declared war on Germany. This shows, by the way, that Jewish people are not a monolithic army of eeevil, as some reactionaries would expect.
I personally think that these agreements were nothing that special, since they are part of what we currently know as _politics._ Mustache-guy wanted to kick out the Jews from Greater Germany according to his own principles for the creation of an ethno-state. Since Israel had already been programmed by the British Empire under the Roths, a deal was the most easy thing to do to solve the question without more brutal methods. *IMO*


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