# Alexander the Great: Fictional Action Hero



## Huaqero (Apr 26, 2021)

Meet *BACTRA *, or _Bactria, Bactriana_, ancient capital of the _Bactrian Kingdom_. Today it is called _Balkh_, in Afghanistan.


It is an 1km wide elevated empty disk with starfort looks and heavy erosion.


Not many photos or videos are available of it, especially of the flat centre part, and not much explanation about when it was built, by whom, and how it eroded.


_(and what are these double lines on there?)_

----------------------

Now, meet *OLD KANDAHAR* ...

It is a big rock next to the city of Kandahar with some citadel formations on top, again, heavily eroded...

----------------

Now, meet *AI-KHANOUM* ...

It is an ancient site in Afghanistan, on the borders with Pakistan ...

--------------------

And finally, meet *MERW*, or *MERV* in Turkmenistan...

It is this huge complex of an open and a walled citadel, empty and heavily eroded again...

--------------------​
What do these have in common?

_They are all *ALEXANDRIAS*..._
Actually, some of the many Alexandrias that Alexander the Great either established or renamed during his conquests.
(And we do not need to discuss the, most famous, _Alexandria in Egypt_ right now...)

_Old Kandahar is 'Alexandria Arachosia' : Alexandria Arachosia_
_Ai-Khanoum is 'Alexandria Oxiana' : Ai-Khanoum_
_Merw is 'Alexandria/Antiochia in Margiana' : Merv_
_And info on Bactria, here : __Bactria_
It was the sat view of Bactra that struck me;
I wasn't searching for it, I was just 'floating' above the Afghani landscape for strange patterns.
The name of Bactra was familiar, because of the Alexander stories, however, I didn't expect to find a huge starfort-like ... thing as 'Bactra'.
How can you call this thing a 'citadel', where are the habitable structures?
Where are the detailed photos from inside the plateau?
Only some few (really impressive) photos of the 'walls'...





The same goes on with Old Kandahar... A melted-like erosion...

And Merw... (from the ground Merw doesn't even look like a man made structure, it looks like a volcanic caldera...)


_*These images give me a strong impression of a great scale devastation in the area, either cataclysmic or cosmic *_*and these empty, melted-like 'citadels' are the remains of it...*

-------------------​
Let's leave these for a while and focus on _Alexander's _story of conquest in Asia:

_He defeated the Persians and the rest, established many cities, influenced the people and cultures and left behind kingdoms and a long lasting legacy called 'Hellenistic' ..._

*All within about 10 years, with one army and with one pass...*

Does this sound ridiculous only to me?

Combining
- _the look of Alexandrias_
- _the absurdity of Alexander's story_
- _the eternal search for his lost Tomb
- the scarcity of detailed knowledge, artifacts but also discussion, _about such big and influential kingdoms
- _the greco-roman look_ of the Hellenistic buildings and artifacts that is associated, within the stolen history community, with the historic anomalies that we research
- the extended _rewriting of history_ through centuries (also note that his main biographer, Arrian was born in 86...AD!)

... I came to the thought that ...

*Alexander the Great did not exist* (or his story was largely exaggerated) *but was a made up story in order to explain the structures and artifacts of an advanced but lost european civilisation that are found so deep in Asia.*


They made up a ridiculous story of an army that conquered these vast areas and 'marked' them with 'european style'. As if a single pass of an always victorious army is enough to establish not only cities but also kingdoms, and influence the conquered people into a new culture for generations to come!

And what is 'Hellenistic' in history?
*It is the cover name of the lost civilisation, whether its traces are found in Afghanistan or in Anatolia or in Egypt or in Sicily!*

And which civilisation was that ?
In Asia it was* the Indo-Europeans! *NOT the _'prehistoric common linguistic ancestors of Europeans and Indians' _but the* lost civilisation of THE EUROPEANS OF INDIA *like we say, 'North/East/West/etc Europeans'.

*We, Europeans, didn't conquer and influence those places with 'Alexander'... We were always there, until the destruction that left those few traces!*

My guess is that, together with the fabrication of Alexander's story, they also diminished the IndoEuropean people and civilisation into a vague linguistic discussion  which always sounded nonsensical (to me).

A few common simple proto-words can be explained by accepting the influence of a great civilisation onto the smaller ones of the region.

Down the rabbit hole you can also meet things like Greco-Buddhism, which may add to the research...
Greco-Buddhism - Wikipedia
-----------------​So, a Greek like me offers a proposal that rejects the story of Alexander the Great (I wonder about the replies...) But I couldn't care less about Alexander since this idea is actually an introduction into a probable hidden piece of the actual history of the Europeans which excites me more...

(Maybe this should have been the title of this post)

[END]





> Note: This OP was recovered from the Sh.org archive.





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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: mickeyfloodDate: 2019-10-09 21:31:03Reaction Score: 5




Huaqero said:


> Combining
> - _the look of Alexandrias_
> - _the absurdity of Alexander's story_
> - _the eternal search for his lost Tomb
> ...



At the final pieces of your post the idea of Alexander's "teacher", came to my mind; Aristotle, "the best purpose" (that is creepy and yet convenient)
Once this thought entered in, and I do agree with you, Huaqero, as to your ideas regarding the absurdity of "the Great boy" and his works, I knew, that I had to let the wind take my thread of thought, in so far as, that if something is fishy with the student, I could guess, that something could be fisher with the teacher. 
Therefore I write, that with all the accolades Aristotle receives, still today, for all that he had accomplished/established, having the "greatest student" that ever was, being perhaps the "greatest teacher" that ever was, the father of science (o shit!) influenced Western culture for millenia, (sounds like a religion) and so on, I begin to see a connection that I dare say, shall also be looked into, as well as the others; the "ancient wisdom/teachers" of this and that. 
I had followed many of these fellas and their ideas with occasional small dives into their teachings and how I could apply it to make life better. Alast, nothing came from it. Though for some reason I still do have some strong belief in Socrates: I guess from being the one I looked tp the most. But it seems more so, that they were all rapists and theifs. - Too radical? I await the comments. -
This post is also inspired partly by a piece I read here, in stolen history, regarding the "ancient" world and that it could in fact be only a few hundred years old and that they had made up the ancient Greek and Rome dialogue or stole it from the actual events, which are hidden for now (and who knows what else). 
So there it is.. calling out not only Alex with his toys, but also calling out his proclaimed and acclaimed super teacher, Airheadstotle


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## Huaqero (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: HuaqeroDate: 2019-10-10 07:51:03Reaction Score: 3




mickeyflood said:


> At the final pieces of your post the idea of Alexander's "teacher", came to my mind; Aristotle, "the best purpose" (that is creepy and yet convenient)
> Once this thought entered in, and I do agree with you, Huaqero, as to your ideas regarding the absurdity of "the Great boy" and his works, I knew, that I had to let the wind take my thread of thought, in so far as, that if something is fishy with the student, I could guess, that something could be fisher with the teacher.
> Therefore I write, that with all the accolades Aristotle receives, still today, for all that he had accomplished/established, having the "greatest student" that ever was, being perhaps the "greatest teacher" that ever was, the father of science (o shit!) influenced Western culture for millenia, (sounds like a religion) and so on, I begin to see a connection that I dare say, shall also be looked into, as well as the others; the "ancient wisdom/teachers" of this and that.
> I had followed many of these fellas and their ideas with occasional small dives into their teachings and how I could apply it to make life better. Alast, nothing came from it. Though for some reason I still do have some strong belief in Socrates: I guess from being the one I looked tp the most. But it seems more so, that they were all rapists and theifs. - Too radical? I await the comments. -
> ...


Following this way of thinking, I would guess that many pieces of the ancient literature come from previous, lost civilisations, either copied or adapted. 
Aristotle may have been a collector of knowledge and wisdom, not an original writer, and his works may have been an encyclopedia of that time.
'Aristotle', like we say 'Larousse'.
I don't see why we should be negative about that, though...


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2019-10-10 08:12:36Reaction Score: 8


I think we could have a real with a made up narrative.  Otherwise he would have to be a giant with an army of giants to achieve what he allegedly did. The other possible scenario would be a totally different tech used by his army.  Strength will always be in numbers when you have a sword for a weapon.

_Questionable Alexander the Great Narrative_


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: mickeyfloodDate: 2019-10-10 08:38:13Reaction Score: 2




Huaqero said:


> Following this way of thinking, I would guess that many pieces of the ancient literature come from previous, lost civilisations, either copied or adapted.
> Aristotle may have been a collector of knowledge and wisdom, not an original writer, and his works may have been an encyclopedia of that time.
> 'Aristotle', like we say 'Larousse'.
> I don't see why we should be negative about that, though...



Ah, the negative thoughts that came to you, due to my reply, were not my intentions at all. Simply, I write nearly as I speak, no holds bar and without censor - though I do proof read too much to try and not sound to scrambly -. Those strong words of rapist and thieves, if that is what you are alluding to or rather my reply post as a whole, are simply lables of who I think they are and what they did. Certainly some can think, that this is quite negative, but on my side I think what these people have done to distort history, hijack our stories and attempt to use them against us in order to keep us submissive, is far more in the way of brutality, than any rapist, murder or thief could ever imagaine. So, please do not take my words as me just slandering and cussing. They are just my words and I try my best, in my truth, to not stir the pot of negativity. This stuff gets me going and my passion for this stuff goes through the roof.
The main point is, that I had never thought about it so simply as you put it, Huaqero; that Aristotle was a collector of wisdom and he might've been a living walking encyclopedia. Damn cool thought. Moreover this had me think then of Shakespeare and his collections of published stories and perhaps someone gave him all this undue credit.
Continuing the search


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## codis (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: codisDate: 2019-10-10 08:49:51Reaction Score: 1




Huaqero said:


> _*These images give me a strong impression of a great scale devastation in the area, either cataclysmic or cosmic *_*and these empty, melted-like 'citadels' are the remains of it...*


To me, this reminds me very much on CGI-rendered images in flight simulators. Except perhaps a small section in the foreground.

I didn't look much into the "Alexander" figure yet. Perhaps the story is based on some scoundrel that existed at some point in time, but I swallow the hero & conqueror story as much ancient Greek history in general. Meaning, not at all.


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## Huaqero (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: HuaqeroDate: 2019-10-10 09:03:23Reaction Score: 1




KorbenDallas said:


> I think we could have a real with a made up narrative.  Otherwise he would have to be a giant with an army of giants to achieve what he allegedly did. The other possible scenario would be a totally different tech used by his army.  Strength will always be in numbers when you have a sword for a weapon.
> 
> _Questionable Alexander the Great Narrative_


I had not read that thread of yours, just a quick reply before reading it (the logistics of Alexander's wars look... entertaining, lol...)

However, Korben, I would really like your thoughts on the IndoEuropean matter, which is actually my main focus,
even though it started as thoughts on Alexander.

If the Indoeuropean linguistic hypothesis is used to cover the true nature of 'Indoeuropeans'
as an advanced, but lost to some kind of cataclysm, european civilisation in Asia,
then this sounds far more important to me than the life of an individual, fictional or true.

(maybe I should change the title of the thread, but the name of Alexander is... catchier)


codis said:


> To me, this reminds me very much on CGI-rendered images in flight simulators. Except perhaps a small section in the foreground.
> 
> I didn't look much into the "Alexander" figure yet. Perhaps the story is based on some scoundrel that existed at some point in time, but I swallow the hero & conqueror story as much ancient Greek history in general. Meaning, not at all.


The lack of imagery from these places is annoying, I guess it only has little to do with the Talibans in the area,
I mean, where is the imagery before the Talibans?
Old Kandahar has been excavated back in 1977 and the results can be found in this site, with a retro feeling...
Archaeological Excavations Kandahar, Afghanistan 1977
Little to none mentioning of Alexander, yet this rock has been linked to him in wiki.


mickeyflood said:


> Aristotle was a collector of wisdom and he might've been a living walking encyclopedia


A bit derailing but anything can pleasantly and fruitfully derail you in this site...

Not more 'living walking encyclopedia' than a contemporary scholar, I would say.
A civilisation of higher intellect would easily cope with dense and 'difficult' texts,
unlike ours which needs bullets and alphabetic order to categorize and record knowledge.
Imagine Mr. Larousse having his encyclopedia team write it down as a philosophical flowing text.
Future scholars would think that Mr Larousse was a polymath genius and a cornerstone of humanity.


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## codis (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: codisDate: 2019-10-10 10:08:29Reaction Score: 6




Huaqero said:


> The lack of imagery from these places is annoying, I guess it only has little to do with the Talibans in the area,


Google is known to falsify maps/views of regions deemed restricted areas by the military.
Google was founded with CIA money - and IMHO is still upheld with CIA dirty money.
So, I do not base any research on Google maps, and have kind of distrust in anything else found via Google.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: EmmanuelZorgDate: 2019-10-10 16:44:25Reaction Score: 5


Slightly off tangent here, but the humorous comments and memes about Chuck Norris have me thinking that perhaps Alexander the Great was the 'Chuck Norris' of his age.  Some achievements are embellished to blatant excess.


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## codis (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: codisDate: 2019-10-11 05:13:07Reaction Score: 1




EmmanuelZorg said:


> Slightly off tangent here, but the humorous comments and memes about Chuck Norris have me thinking that perhaps Alexander the Great was the 'Chuck Norris' of his age.  Some achievements are embellished to blatant excess.


Might be not so far off.
As a kid I had been reading a lot, including fairytales and myth of foreign cultures/countries. Including some from the then Soviet Union, especially the non-slavic countries Asian part.
A common theme is a the super-strong and brave hero, who defeats a dreadful animal (like a bear or an elephant) at age of 5, and several adult men. And as an adult, he leads armies against evil enemies, defeating them almost single-handed ... yada yada yada


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## Huaqero (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: HuaqeroDate: 2019-10-11 16:17:14Reaction Score: 1


I missed out adding the *Kalash* people into the question...!
Kalash people - Wikipedia

For years they had been linked to descendants of the Macedonian expedition.
However, recent genetic tests seem to have put these theories to an end.
The Kalash Genetic Isolate: Ancient Divergence, Drift, and Selection

_Instead, their case seems to support ... my theory!_
Not only are the Kalash not linked to Alexander's army, they are probably some of the earliest Europeans!
What's more, their language is considered Indo-european.
Kalasha-mun - Wikipedia

So, still, no traces of Alexander, not even genetic ones... But, yes, traces of 'extremely drifted ancient europeans' in Asia.


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## toybrandon (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: toybrandonDate: 2019-10-11 19:57:58Reaction Score: 1




codis said:


> Google is known to falsify maps/views of regions deemed restricted areas by the military.
> Google was founded with CIA money - and IMHO is still upheld with CIA dirty money.
> So, I do not base any research on Google maps, and have kind of distrust in anything else found via Google.


While I generally agree with you, the individual images within Google earth may have something to offer. At levels higher than that, its anywhere from misleading to an actual cartoon globe earth. Definitely of spook origins though.


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## codis (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: codisDate: 2019-10-12 10:54:57Reaction Score: 2




toybrandon said:


> While I generally agree with you, the individual images within Google earth may have something to offer. At levels higher than that, its anywhere from misleading to an actual cartoon globe earth. Definitely of spook origins though.


Sure, just wanted to mention Google maps is not the "Golden Reference" source to compare with.
It is for the general public, and contains what the public is supposed to know/believe.
One should keep that in mind when using it.


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## HollyHoly (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: HollyHolyDate: 2019-10-13 02:34:57Reaction Score: 5


I googled Wickedpedia the  name Alexander  and found this

*Rulers of antiquity*
Alaksandu king of Wilusa who sealed a treaty with Hittite king Muwatalli II ca. 1280 BC.
Alexander (_Alexandros of Ilion_), more often known as Paris of Troy
Alexander of Corinth, 10th king of Corinth (816–791 BC)
Alexander I of Macedon
Alexander II of Macedon
Alexander III of Macedon, commonly known as Alexander the Great
Alexander IV of Macedon
Alexander V of Macedon
Alexander of Pherae despot of Pherae between 369 and 358 BC
Alexander I of Epirus king of Epirus about 342 BC
Alexander II of Epirus king of Epirus 272 BC
Alexander, viceroy of Antigonus Gonatas and ruler of a rump state based on Corinth c. 250 BC
Alexander Balas, ruler of the Seleucid kingdom of Syria between 150 and 146 BC
Alexander Zabinas, ruler of part of the Seleucid kingdom of Syria based in Antioch between 128 and 123 BC
Alexander Jannaeus king of Judea, 103–76 BC
Alexander of Judaea, son of Aristobulus II, king of Judaea
Alexander Severus (208–235), Roman emperor
Julius Alexander, lived in the 2nd century, an Emesene nobleman
Domitius Alexander, Roman usurper who declared himself emperor in 308
and I found out that all the Alexanders 1 thru 5  are related, Alexander I of Epirus was Alexander III uncle and Alexander of Pherae was a political ally of Alexander II and  was Alexander III uncle as well so Macedon and Thessalonia  were overtaken by crazy Alexanders fighting among themselves  (because I followed all the links) its hilarious reading . But with all these related Alexanders can we be sure that the Alexander III story  as history claims ? Never mind how can a guy who is  barely three decades old cover all the ground they say he did, while drunk,  I also  think it  could be the Holy Grail of European legend  like the OP  Haqureo thinks,.. could be.  I think so many Alexanders interacting with each other in roughly  the same time frame   establishing dynasties  could tie in with  Korben Dallas  thread Artemis Clone factory.  If as some forum members think  his mother was cult priestess that fits the narrative ,that is kind of building itself , that there is this connection  to  breeding/ creating  /bloodline, worship kinda thing going on. So many Alexanders related to each other  all fighting and conquesting and jockeying for supremacy  isn't proof of cloning but it does make me  go, hmmmm.


So if you look at it like this you can just see that that a twenty something does not simply go take over the world ,nuh huh.  But  there is some smoke that could be a clone fire, and as is so often the case  female  witchcraft hanky panky  (nasty rumors )behind the scenes. But its easier to believe  that multiple interchangeable Alexanders were all operating in roughly the same time frame maybe could explain a city called  Alexandria However Alexandria is a another name Hera the wife of Zeus. That is also a plausible reason why so many Alexandria's everywhere if  there is already an Alexandria when you get there then you definitely have less work to do.


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## Huaqero (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: HuaqeroDate: 2019-10-13 15:32:31Reaction Score: 2




HollyHoly said:


> I googled Wickedpedia the  name Alexander  and found this
> *Rulers of antiquity*
> 
> Alaksandu king of Wilusa who sealed a treaty with Hittite king Muwatalli II ca. 1280 BC.
> ...


Alaksandu? So interesting...!
And Paris of Troy, also called Alexander? Wow, part of our mythology and only a few clicks away in online encyclopedias but...first time I read that! Sooo interesting, too!
Thanks for pointing these out and opening the matter even more. I'll have to do some more reading, even though I don't get into biographic details of minor historic figures, as I lately get the feeling that they are mostly verbal distractions on more global events and a maze of convoluted info from which you cannot get out with conclusions.
Not much time now for more digging, in the mean time please add any other thought of yours...


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## codis (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: codisDate: 2019-10-14 08:29:47Reaction Score: 1




Huaqero said:


> Alaksandu? So interesting...!
> And Paris of Troy, also called Alexander? Wow, part of our mythology and only a few clicks away in online encyclopedias but...first time I read that! Sooo interesting, too!


As a side note, names of cities can and do change. After the end of the communist dictatorship in the Eastern Bloc, several cities changed their names, as the hagiography got updated.
Try to find Stalingrad on the map ... or "Karl-Marx-Stadt", for that matter.

My point - the widespread use of a first name (Alexander) to name a city (Alexandria) proves ... exactly nothing.

By the way, I would add Dshingis Khan to the list of fictional action heros.
His empire had a similar size - supposedly.


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## Huaqero (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: HuaqeroDate: 2019-10-14 12:38:14Reaction Score: 1




codis said:


> My point - the widespread use of a first name (Alexander) to name a city (Alexandria) proves ... exactly nothing.


Yes, mainly because we are in a point where we can prove nothing, or even make substantial progress, unless prohibited excavations occur and forbidden books are read. Until then, it's just an interesting online detective game for us...


codis said:


> I would add Dshingis Khan to the list of fictional action heros


Yes, again, look how peaceful people the Mongolians are. It seems that someone scapegoated them, in the past


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## codis (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: codisDate: 2019-10-14 12:58:27Reaction Score: 1




Huaqero said:


> Yes, again, look how peaceful people the Mongolians are. It seems that someone scapegoated them, in the past


At least misused the name.
If you look closer at the map and the population distribution of current Mongolia, you begin to wonder where those tens/hundreds of thousands fierce warriors came from. Over decades, mind you, re-filling the gaps.
And even worse, if you look at the current Mongolian archery tradition, supposedly their very unique advantage, it gets ridiculous. Neither is there any mounted archery tradition (like e.g. in Turkey, Persia, Japan, Hungary etc.), they can't even agree on a proper shooting style. Doing archery myself (and also East Asian thumb style), what you see there today never ever works on horseback. It is imported Manchu archery, degraded both in style and equipment (the current "Mongolian bow" is a smaller, less efficient version of the Manchu bow).
Many of the Mongolian nomads have an unbroken tradition for centuries with very little influence by civilisation, they would never drop their most "sacred" achievements.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: tupperawareDate: 2019-10-15 15:03:47Reaction Score: 0




Huaqero said:


> I missed out adding the *Kalash* people into the question...!
> Kalash people - Wikipedia
> 
> For years they had been linked to descendants of the Macedonian expedition.
> ...




In the article you posted - The Kalash Genetic Isolate: Ancient Divergence, Drift, and Selection - it shows testing suggesting for 20,000 years the Kalash population was limited to 10,000 people and under.  What tricks of the trade have been used to maintain that kind of population stability? Abduction, infanticide, disease, immigration, herbal birth control?

*"The Kalash Are an Ancient Genetic Isolate*
PSMC analysis applied to the high-coverage Kalash, three African genomes (YRI, LWK, and MKK), and six non-African genomes showed that the Kalash, like other non-Africans, experienced a severe bottleneck 50,000–70,000 years ago. The Kalash recovered slightly after the bottleneck but never achieved an effective population size above 20,000, as observed in the GIH (the other South Asian genome) and other non-African genomes, except the MXL (Figure 2A). *The Kalash have maintained a low effective size below 10,000 for more than 20,000 years before the present. *This pattern of unusually small effective population size in the Kalash is also supported by the estimate from the decay of LD, which was significantly lower (p = < 2 × 10−14) than that of neighboring populations from Pakistan (Figure 2B), although the estimated absolute sizes differed between the two approaches."


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## Huaqero (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: HuaqeroDate: 2019-10-15 15:21:07Reaction Score: 1




tupperaware said:


> In the article you posted - The Kalash Genetic Isolate: Ancient Divergence, Drift, and Selection - it shows testing suggesting for 20,000 years the Kalash population was limited to 10,000 people and under.  What tricks of the trade have been used to maintain that kind of population stability? Abduction, infanticide, disease, immigration, herbal birth control?
> 
> *"The Kalash Are an Ancient Genetic Isolate*
> PSMC analysis applied to the high-coverage Kalash, three African genomes (YRI, LWK, and MKK), and six non-African genomes showed that the Kalash, like other non-Africans, experienced a severe bottleneck 50,000–70,000 years ago. The Kalash recovered slightly after the bottleneck but never achieved an effective population size above 20,000, as observed in the GIH (the other South Asian genome) and other non-African genomes, except the MXL (Figure 2A). *The Kalash have maintained a low effective size below 10,000 for more than 20,000 years before the present. *This pattern of unusually small effective population size in the Kalash is also supported by the estimate from the decay of LD, which was significantly lower (p = < 2 × 10−14) than that of neighboring populations from Pakistan (Figure 2B), although the estimated absolute sizes differed between the two approaches."


Wow, didn't notice that; I guess this means that if the Kalash are a living fossil of the Indoeuropean lost civilisation (the way I see it, at least), then this catastrophe in the area happened more than 20000y ago, probably even 50-70k.
Now, about the stability afterwards, I don't think that extreme conditions like abduction, infanticide and the rest are required. I guess that number was the equilibrium they reached given the topography and the resources of the area, child mortality, limited interactions with other tribes, culture, etc
Any biologist in here is welcome to help...


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: tupperawareDate: 2019-10-15 15:41:12Reaction Score: 1




Huaqero said:


> Wow, didn't notice that; I guess this means that if the Kalash are a living fossil of the Indoeuropean lost civilisation (the way I see it, at least), then this catastrophe in the area happened more than 20000y ago, probably even 50-70k.
> Now, about the stability afterwards, I don't think that extreme conditions like abduction, infanticide and the rest are required. I guess that number was the equilibrium they reached given the topography and the resources of the area, child mortality, limited interactions with other tribes, culture, etc
> Any biologist in here is welcome to help...



This might largely explain the small population stability for thousands of years - a very unique matrifocused culture. The free women of Kalash   Not much of a chance for such a unique culture spreading into more patridominant cultures. Maybe their mythology has also been stable for 10,000 years.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: AshduventnoiDate: 2019-10-15 19:53:07Reaction Score: 1


Alexander the great is a reflection of Skanderbeg (litteraly meaning Alexander the Great) , Albanian general who fought against the Ottoman Empire. 
Skanderbeg - Wikipedia


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## codis (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: codisDate: 2019-10-16 05:43:08Reaction Score: 0




tupperaware said:


> In the article you posted - The Kalash Genetic Isolate: Ancient Divergence, Drift, and Selection - it shows testing suggesting for 20,000 years the Kalash population was limited to 10,000 people and under. What tricks of the trade have been used to maintain that kind of population stability? Abduction, infanticide, disease, immigration, herbal birth control?


I suppose, relatively stable conditions in a less appealing environment. Meaning, somehow harsh living conditions with general yields (crops, hunt, trade) not much above the minimum. Such conditions do not attract invaders nor immigrants, and limit the genetic and linguistic exchange with their environment.
There had been similar populations here in the (European) Alp mountains. Their dialect traces back more then 100 years. One I personally came to know has/had significant similarities of specific terms with current English. Which would mean they language traces back to times when proto anglo-saxons set out to cross the channel.
Recent political actions - and those of the last decades - seems poised to root out those indigenous cultures and traditions.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: tupperawareDate: 2019-10-16 15:05:59Reaction Score: 1




codis said:


> I suppose, relatively stable conditions in a less appealing environment. Meaning, somehow harsh living conditions with general yields (crops, hunt, trade) not much above the minimum. Such conditions do not attract invaders nor immigrants, and limit the genetic and linguistic exchange with their environment.
> There had been similar populations here in the (European) Alp mountains. Their dialect traces back more then 100 years. One I personally came to know has/had significant similarities of specific terms with current English. Which would mean they language traces back to times when proto anglo-saxons set out to cross the channel.
> Recent political actions - and those of the last decades - seems poised to root out those indigenous cultures and traditions.





Ashduventnoi said:


> Alexander the great is a reflection of Skanderbeg (litteraly meaning Alexander the Great) , Albanian general who fought against the Ottoman Empire.
> Skanderbeg - Wikipedia



The Kalash are Albanian!  The Albanians of Afghanistan, the 2300 - years old unwritten History
Useful images and connections halfway through.


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## codis (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: codisDate: 2019-10-17 06:03:23Reaction Score: 1


I use to have trouble lately, watching videos with permanent background music. Maybe I find my way through this one soon ...
Anyway, there is something strange about Albania. The language is not related to any other European one, let alone languages of it's neighbors.
Is is classified as "indoeuropean" solely on the fact the Albania is located in Europe for centuries. How intelligible.
Fomenko didn't fail to notice the similarity to "Albion", a term for Britain.While I don't follow his interpretation of Albania as origin of Brits, I see it as more then just coincidence.
I heard of Skanderbeg years ago. However, the story involves the pope and Venice (with dubious  money aristocracy constantly battling for the "holy see"), which makes me suspicious. His life reminds me on Vlad Tepes, and his death on Emperor Barbarossa.
In general, the whole story of Ottoman campains throufh Europe stinks somehow. I can't get the medieval map of Vienna out of my head, showing the combined cross + crescent on top of the St. Stephan's cathedral.


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## Huaqero (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: HuaqeroDate: 2019-10-17 08:47:11Reaction Score: 0




codis said:


> the whole story of Ottoman campains throufh Europe stinks somehow


Making some thoughts about modern Greek history lately, some patterns emerged and started having the same feeling, but myriads of things have to be overturned for more obvious clues... Anyway, just mentioning this here...


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: tupperawareDate: 2019-10-17 16:39:34Reaction Score: 1




Huaqero said:


> I missed out adding the *Kalash* people into the question...!
> Kalash people - Wikipedia
> 
> For years they had been linked to descendants of the Macedonian expedition.
> ...


Per the study it shows the Kalash have been in the area and isolated for at least 10,000 years. A genetics based theory but still interesting. There is also a strong possibility they are Albanian/Macedonian etc. etc. Alexander the Great was Macedonian. Many say the Kalash are descended from commanders in Alexander's army.  This chain of theories suggests Alexander the Great lived 10,000 years ago or is a fabrication. Could it be somebody "like" Alexander did live 10,000 years ago resulting in the Kalash and much later the myth of Alexander was created?  Albanians could also have just migrated into the Afghanistan region "peacefully" - 10,000 years ago.


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## SuperTrouper (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: SuperTrouperDate: 2019-10-18 02:15:23Reaction Score: 0




codis said:


> In general, *the whole story of Ottoman campaigns through Europe stinks somehow*. I can't get the medieval map of Vienna out of my head, showing the combined cross + crescent on top of the St. Stephan's cathedral.


Yep, absolutely.


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## tigermouse (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: TigermouseDate: 2019-10-19 20:30:38Reaction Score: 1


I rekon your indo european hypothasis is pretty acurate. My first real history teacher -When I was about 12- did not teach us Alexander the great as fact. This was in a state run UK school. I am not sure if that was by designe of the carriculum or Mr T's choice I dont know but due to this I have never realy belived in Alexander the great. I have given alot of thought to the idae of what realy happend back then. I think you have hit the proverbial nail on the head. I haddent made the conection to the indo europeans. The idea of there being another 'lost' civilisation hidden in plain sight makes alot of sense. The hellenic excuse for the architechture is just plain silly. Time to take a closer look .


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## HollyHoly (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: HollyHolyDate: 2019-10-22 19:38:50Reaction Score: 0


okay Haquero I finally got around to this what are those groups of lines ? and I came up up with this    chromosomes?? to me they look like chromosomes and  that that takes us right back to Alexandria cities being named after goddesses and that takes us to Artemis cloning colonies. Would love to know how these lines were made they are really weird actually. Just a thought


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Martin77Date: 2019-10-23 20:34:38Reaction Score: 1


I think there is another strange thing about Alexander that wasn't mentioned.
So called Roman empire was expanding in all directions - that is understandable and "normal". But Alexander moved all the way to the east from his homeland. 
Why not to conquer something closer first? What if some neighbour from the west decides to conquer Macedonia - just because he is 10 day walking distance - what Alexander would see after return - pilaged towns and ruins? 
Another thing - why conquer mostly arid countries with bad climate (according to official history), while there are much better ones on the west?


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: FezzerDate: 2019-11-08 17:52:51Reaction Score: 1




Huaqero said:


> Meet *BACTRA *, or _Bactria, Bactriana_, ancient capital of the _Bactrian Kingdom_. Today it is called _Balkh_, in Afghanistan.
> 
> View attachment 31330
> It is an 1km wide elevated empty disk with starfort looks and heavy erosion.
> ...


I had just been reading about William of Normandy invading England. It would appear that in every City he subdued, he built a Castle.  Just like that!
*English resistance*
Main article: Harrying of the North

The remains of Baile Hill, the second motte-and-bailey castle built by William in York
In 1068 Edwin and Morcar revolted, supported by Gospatric, Earl of Northumbria. The chronicler Orderic Vitalis states that Edwin's reason for revolting was that the proposed marriage between himself and one of William's daughters had not taken place, but another reason probably included the increasing power of fitzOsbern in Herefordshire, which affected Edwin's power within his own earldom. The king marched through Edwin's lands and built Warwick Castle. Edwin and Morcar submitted, but William continued on to York, building York and Nottingham Castles before returning south. On his southbound journey, he began constructing Lincoln, Huntingdon, and Cambridge Castles. William placed supporters in charge of these new fortifications – among them William Peverel at Nottingham and Henry de Beaumont at Warwick. Then the king returned to Normandy late in 1068.[97]
Early in 1069, Edgar the Ætheling rose in revolt and attacked York. Although William returned to York and built another castle, Edgar remained free, and in the autumn he joined up with King Sweyn.[p] The Danish king had brought a large fleet to England and attacked not only York but Exeter and Shrewsbury. York was captured by the combined forces of Edgar and Sweyn. Edgar was proclaimed king by his supporters. William responded swiftly, ignoring a continental revolt in Maine, and symbolically wore his crown in the ruins of York on Christmas Day 1069. He then proceeded to buy off the Danes. He marched to the River Tees, ravaging the countryside as he went. Edgar, having lost much of his support, fled to Scotland,[98] where King Malcolm III was married to Edgar's sister Margaret.[99] Waltheof, who had joined the revolt, submitted, along with Gospatric, and both were allowed to retain their lands. But William was not finished; he marched over the Pennines during the winter and defeated the remaining rebels at Shrewsbury before building Chester and Stafford Castles. This campaign, which included the burning and destruction of part of the countryside that the royal forces marched through, is usually known as the "Harrying of the North"; it was over by April 1070, when William wore his crown ceremonially for Easter at Winchester.[98]


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## Huaqero (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: HuaqeroDate: 2020-05-12 18:19:55Reaction Score: 1


Don't you love it when you come across something related to a prior stolen-history-noticing of yours?
_How about something related to two of them?_

Today I read this on (the beloved) Listverse:

I did not expect that this thread about Alexander the Great being a probable fake, larger-than-life-and-history personality, _used as an excuse for structural and cultural anomalies in parts of Asia_, would touch with my other thread about the curious cases of 'artificial islands', but here it is.
This case is a bit of reverse, an island turned into a peninsula, but the silly narrative of terraforming on this huge scale is here, too.

So, Alexander's supermen-army conquered huge lands, destroyed empires, established numerous new cities and altered the culture of the conquered peoples for centuries, only within 10 years,
_while for half of one of those years they were ... recycling a whole town into a bridge to an island?_
From wiki:
_..."The present city of Tyre covers a large part of the original island and has expanded onto and covers most of the causeway built by Alexander the Great in 332 BCE. This isthmus increased greatly in width over the centuries because of extensive silt depositions on either side. The part of the original island not covered by the modern city of Tyre is mostly of an archaeological site showcasing remains of the city from ancient times."_

Tyre is one of the oldest cities on earth and a very long read for those interested, but now with this Alexander connection I read this, too, as
_a probable ruin of a much earlier cosmic devastation that left the unaware survivors speechless, until someone stuck the 'Alexander' tag on it and 'explained' it to the public._
The Siege of Tyre is well-narrated in Alexander's historiography, but let's not forget that this is a biography full of extraordinary claims. This city was not designated as 'Alexandria [Something]', maybe because it was continuously inhabited, unlike other ruins, like Old Kandahar.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Red BirdDate: 2020-05-12 19:17:53Reaction Score: 1




Huaqero said:


> Tyre is one of the oldest cities on earth and a very long read for those interested, but now with this Alexander connection I read this, too, as
> _a probable ruin of a much earlier cosmic devastation that left the unaware survivors speechless, until someone stuck the 'Alexander' tag on it_


Definitely as God, in the Bible, had it in for Tyre And it happened as predicted. Sorry, can’t give links right now as there is a chicken house to be cleaned.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: druhyuDate: 2020-05-25 13:58:37Reaction Score: 2


Adding to this the peculiar fact that no Indian tradition has any mention of Alexander or his campaign/conquest.

According to the mainstream history we're taught, Alexander came to the Indus river and waged battle with an Indian king Porus and defeated him. Then, his soldiers refused to venture further into India, apparently weary of more battle in rainy, humid, marshy, elephant-infested lands. There's even a story of Alexander meeting an Indian philosopher and having an exchange with him.

But none of this is remembered in Indian tradition. Even king Porus is a flimsy name. There was a cognate Puru tribe in India, but textual references to the Purus predate Alexander by at least a thousand years, and there is no tradition of a Puru empire or king by Alexander's time. Even if there was, Puru kings didn't just carry the name Puru as if it was a first name, and there's no explanation for why the Greeks would remember the king just as Porus. 

On the Indian side, Indian enthusiasts fabricated another tale. That Alexander was daunted by the rise of the Indian dynasty of Chandragupta Maurya. There are even fabricated legends of a young Chandragupta helping/meeting Alexander. This itself has many problems, not relevant to this thread, but it is curious that Chandragupta Maurya had a tutor Kautilya (or Chanakya) who was his mentor and then his prime minister. Maybe some parallels in this to Alexander and Aristotle.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: ShemTovDate: 2020-05-25 14:30:14Reaction Score: 0


alexander possessed the greek state secrets in the annotated illiad from aristotle and plato et al..
i like to think that when he fled his father in 337?? he wet on an adventure to prove he was chosen and what the book said was true. he returned with the real shield and armor of achilles [not the fakes at fake "asian" troy]... thus making him a mythical enough hero to enough men to overthrow his father. he then went on to attack everyone who claimed their paradise was in greek territory.

peace


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: tupperawareDate: 2020-05-25 17:47:22Reaction Score: 2




Ashduventnoi said:


> The same goes on with Old Kandahar... A melted-like erosion...
> View attachment 31334
> 
> _*These images give me a strong impression of a great scale devastation in the area, either cataclysmic or cosmic *_*and these empty, melted-like 'citadels' are the remains of it...*
> ...


Article with a short list of heat fused building sites. Mohen Daro probably was *not nuked* according to a few articles.
Desert Glass Formed by Ancient Atomic Bombs?

Here is some recent news/genetics from the Indus Valley
A Burst of Clues to South Asians’ Genetic Ancestry

Possible destroyed then weathered massive architecture in the "Alexander" area. Graham has more than a little credibility.  The Sphinx Of Balochistan: Is It A Man-made, Rock-cut, Architectural Marvel? - Graham Hancock Official Website



Related:

Where are any "ancient" Indo-Aryan-European-Alexandrian gemstones like this:



Pakistan and Afghanistan both presumably conquered by Alexander the Great are sources for these crystals.


- collected in Pakistan by Hunza aryans supposedly throughout the ages. Very large crystals occasionally are found melting out of glaciers - easy pickings. Nowadays more frequently they are found in hard rock pockets/vugs in the videos case, high up the mountains. So you would assume that incredible "large" gemstones of all kinds throughout the "ages" from all localities around the world would make their way through trade into the hands of rulers and other elite everywhere and passed down from generation to generation and _buried with the famous and loved_ - much more durable than your average papyrus or parchment. Without technology to cut and facet these "large" stones they would have been mounted in scepters, crowns, and all forms of jewelry. The larger crystals might have been used as _foot stools_. Aquamarine is just beryl as is emerald and ruby. Very hard and very durable - everlasting like gold. Actually more so than gold because the crystals can't be melted down.

Where are what should be hundreds if not thousands of these large crystals - traceable through their guilding and location to various famous "ancient" civilizations?  Unlike coins and any metal jewelry that can be faked these "large" crystals can't with any technology today perhaps including _ancient alien tech_.   They are very rare but there should have been an inevitable accumulation of these larger, priceless masterpieces - in the hundreds at least.  Long periods of time should result in anything of extreme durability, beauty and value being "accumulated" and a decent fraction ending up in museum displays. *Archaeology digs* should have revealed many of these stones and even caches of these stones. Again, since they can't be faked, melted away and mass produced like coins they should number in the hundreds to thousands and not like thousands of pounds of Roman coins found buried here and there.

"gemstones from ancient egypt"  you would think many of these larger "to die" for crystals would be well known from digs in this part of the world.  A large very flawed with inclusions crystal would be extremely impressive to ancient eyes but today its value is much reduced since it can't be turned into a faceted gemstone with good return on that investment. Faceting was not possible in ancient times. Intricately carved scarabs and the like but not faceting. These large crystals even though flawed "are" quite valuable today but mainly if they remain in the rock matrix they were found in.

Where are the "chunks" of rock with the drop dead gorgeous collections of embedded crystals in the thousands of remains dug up over the years?

I can't believe our ancestors were not interested in these massive crystals removed from the rock or kept in the rock matrix (makes for great paperweights and shaman glitz).  Could the absence of these large dazzling crystals from archaeological digs be a tell that there has not been enough time for our ancestors to simply find them through placer deposits, glacial melts and mining?

If there was anything worth collecting besides skulls, teeth, feathers and precious metals it would have been crystals like these and *size does count*.

One possibility is these large crystals would be made available to the elite all over the world but for whatever reason they were not impressed or in a state of mind to appreciate their beauty. Hard to believe. Another possibility is there was a collection agency paying for those stones for whatever reason - all over the world.  Off world collectors?

Even King Tut has no _grandiose_ crystals.  Gemstone Found In King Tut's Tomb Formed When A Celestial Body Collided With Earth

The Arkenstone Aquamarine - The kind of stone that might have been "worshipped".


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## hopesksefall (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: hopesksefallDate: 2020-07-20 14:45:23Reaction Score: 0




tupperaware said:


> Article with a short list of heat fused building sites. Mohen Daro probably was *not nuked* according to a few articles.
> Desert Glass Formed by Ancient Atomic Bombs?
> 
> Here is some recent news/genetics from the Indus Valley
> ...



Tupper, I happen to be completely fascinated by gemstones and minerals.  I prefer them in their natural formats without faceting, but I digress.  I've recently(within the past few years) begun frequenting sites and forums that discuss and display gemstones and minerals.  What I've noticed is a massive uptick in the amount of very large specimens of Aquamarine, and other very high quality crystalline minerals, specifically from Pakistan and Afghanistan.  Could the explanation be that they are now "re-discovering" these crystals in droves?  Could it be the stores of these crystals have been known in those countries for some times but with governmental collapse/corruption, they're just now coming to light?


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