# A New View of the Arthurian Legends - Susan V. Tomory - Part 6/6



## Safranek (Feb 3, 2022)

*A New View of the Arthurian Legends*_ - _*Susan V. Tomory - Part 6 of 6*

Part 1 - Part 2 - Part 3 - Part 4 - Part 5

*Appendix III*

*Rheged*

Concerning the place name Rheged, quaint as it may sound, it may follow the same construction as was shown in connection with the word Borsod, which signified a place or seat of the knight Bors. Rheg-ed can signify a country, a country of “rege” i.e. a place where the regős related “rege”. The construction using the “d” suffix is quite common in old Hungarian that has survived to this day, viz., Nagyvár-ad. It is noteworthy that in both instances the word coinage using the suffix “d” took into account the laws for matching vowels of the Magyar language. Vowel matching dictates that the root word’s vowel – whether front or back vowel – be harmonized through the use of a similar class of vowel when affixing a suffix thereto.

***

*Appendix IV*

*The Certified Stone Age Settlements of Somogy County, Hungary *

Andocs, Alsónyíres, Balatonboglár, Balaton Endréd, Balatonkeresztúr, Balatonkiliti, Balatonlelle, Balatonszentgyörgy, Bonnya, Böhönye, Bõszénfa, Csákány, Csokonyavisonta, Ecseny.Felsõsegesd, Fonyód, Gamás, Gölle, Gyöngyösmellék, Igal, Inke, Kadarkút, Kapoly, Kaposhomok, Kaposvár, Kastélyosdombó, Kánya, Kéthely, Kõröshegy, Lábod, Lengyeltóti, Libickozma, Mernye, Mozsgó, Nagyatád, Nagybajom, Nagyberki, Nágocs, Németegres, Orci, Pamuk, Ságvár, Simongát, Somogyaszaló, Somogybabod, Somogyszentinmre, Somogyszil, Somogyszob, Somogyvámos, Somogyvár, Szántód, Szenna, Szigetvár, Szólád, Tab, *Taszár*, Torvaj, Tótszentgyörgy, Vásárosbéc.

*​
Few people may know that the American Air Base in Taszár is in a town that was already well developed in the Stone Age and has been inhabited since.

***

*Appendix V

Ancient settlements of the Carpathian Basin*



*AGE AND PLACE**DWELLINGS**OBJECTS USED*500.000 Vértesszöllõscavehearth, stone tools70.000 Ohábaponorcavestone tools70.000 Érd and Tatacavehearth, stone tools (42 varieties), very fine workmanship36.000 Szeleti culturecavehearth with smoke-stack, stone quarries,
stone tools30.900 Istállóskõcavestone and bone tools, flutes with 5 holes30.000 Zempléndug-in houses and above the ground housesmining, use of mineral baths18.600 Ságvárdug-in houses and above the ground houseshoes made of antlers17.400 Ságvár, a continuation of the above. Similar settlements in W. Europe 8000 years laterhouses on pillarshoes made of antlers, stone knives with handles, female and animal figurines,
geometric designs on bones, dried meats7.000 Gorzsatown(s) granaries, a specific type of roofing
which is still used, the walls were painted in redthe very representative type of Hungarian built in stove called kemence, in house sanctuary,
altar, chest, shelves, loom, table4,500 Tűzkövessettled agricultural commun. with animal
husbandrythey preserved the gourd, wood-, husk utensils of the previous age5.000 Bodrogközas above4.000 Dombóvárcontinued settlementsadvanced ceramics




*Appendix VI*

*Count István Széchenyi about the Hungarian Academy of Sciences*

The Hungarian Academy of Sciences was founded by Count István Széchenyi. To the dismay of the founder, the Academy soon became the hotbed of anti-Hungarian doctrines in the fields of language, history and their related fields. This process began under Austrian rule during its founder’s lifetime, as the following document sheds light upon this process.

COUNT ISTVÁN SZÉCHENYI’S LETTER TO THE DIRECTORY OF THE HUNGARIAN ACADEMY OF SCIENCES.[1]

COUNT ISTVÁN SZÉCHENYI SENDS THIS LETTER OF SUPPLICATION TO THE DIRECTORY OF THE HUNGARIAN SCIENTIFIC SOCIETY TO BE READ AT ITS NEXT MEETING.


Honorable Directorate!

Even the fanciest words have no value when the facts prove to the contrary.

Even the completely blind can see that our present government is against the best interest of the Magyar people. Our national life is more important than any worldly treasure, even our lives, for us Hungarians. Among Hungarian ruins, nothing remained more intact than her admirable power to live and it is the Academy, which shows that this life is without blemish and it is not extinguished.

And now even this last truly Magyar institute is about to be turned upside down! It is a pity, yes, it is happening! The newly hatched rules of the Academy, which I received recently, are nothing more and nothing less in my eyes than a stabbing wound which leads easily to death.

In such dire circumstances what can I do now when I suffer indescribable spiritual pain, my heart is bleeding and I am half buried[2]; what can I do on behalf of the Academy now, I, who followed the example of my glorious ancestors with reverence and my fortune helped the cause of our language in 1825 with success, with greater success then, since, not only was I blessed with great understanding but sufficient material assets too, without which -- it is a pity -- the most noble is often crushed, even though -- as the present shows -- the Magyar can lift himself again out of the mire, and may adorn again mankind and may also form the most solid base of the Emperor’s chair. I am posing the question: may I not even call out in pain when I am forced to see that our imperial family is led astray by some misguided prejudice and does not pay any attention to, or even willfully lets the Magyar life force shrivel away, since it is forced to give up its own characteristics? This is done even though the young vigor of the Magyars is very much present and the ruling family does not even realize that it cuts the tree from under itself by these deeds.

The honored Academy will decide in this matter — even though as a founder I have some influence — and even though I hold the individuals and the institution itself in high regard — but I do not desire, I do not want, while my head is between my shoulders, my brain has not melted, and the light of my eyes has not been extinguished — thanking all advice — I am the one who is finally going to decide this matter.

Because;

I am convinced that our lord, the luminous Emperor Franz Joseph will realize, sooner or later, that the amalgamation and Germanization of the people in his empire is none other than the crazy theory of the present statesmen, which is nothing but bitter self-mystification and so most, if not all, of the people of his empire will look for a way out when a storm arises. Among all these, the Magyar has no relatives in this world, has no other home than the constitutional Paradise between the four rivers and three mountains, where he seeks to reach his abundance, good fortune and happiness under the protection of his dynastic and legitimate King. Therefore the honored Emperor will not suffer — since he was permitted to sink into the most problematic situation, his soul will be enlightened and his most honored mood will be bored enough, — he will not suffer when this time comes, when — which I cannot doubt — they will weaken, murder and dissolve a nation which would even ’catch a bird’ for the Emperor, if he did not stand in the way of her growth, honor and glory, since the Magyar was always a good steward of these values and was always willing to shed his last drop of blood in the past, as in the present and future too, to preserve these values.

I would like to believe that if our young Emperor — if he wants to see and hear — will listen only to the advice of his own brain and heart, and then he could even surpass the glorious days of Corvin[3].

I see the future in this manner and trust in the decree of Heaven, who punishes nations and Emperors too for their sins, but never lets people full of life be murdered; concerning myself and my rights as a founder and the changed rules of the Academy — with which I could not agree — if there is no escape, I have to accept them as orders without the slightest complaint with a bleeding heart, but unbroken spirit.

At the same time I am sounding a solemn warning according to the glorious principle of „Justum ac tenacem propositi virum”[4] that I shall not pay the interest on the donation which I placed upon the altar of my country, from the moment that I realize that my gift is forced into other channels than the ones which were planned for the Magyar Academy at its founding — because I do not honor pretty words and empty promises — (and) which was also consecrated by law between the nation and the Emperor and which will be honored according to my will by my heirs, who will fulfill this task honestly and faithfully. Should this tragic occurrence come about, against all trust and good hope, I and, according to the foundation letter, my heirs too, will, according to same foundation letter, withdraw our help from the poisoned Academy and we shall use this money for some other noble cause which serves the nation. But the goal for the use of these funds will be set by us and all others will be excused from this task. In this respect we will bend only to material pressure.

To the honored directors,

Your true servant
Count István Széchenyi[5]

Felső — Döbling
November 6th, 1858

***

*Appendix VII*

*The Ammianus Marcellinus Text*

The Hungarian translation of the Ammianus Marcellinus text was published by the Európa Története (The History of Europe) by the Európa Publishing House in 1993 under the title:

AMMIANUS MARCELINUS RERVM GESTARVM LIBRI QVI
SVPERSVNT
Vol. I, page 77

”Visoque imperatore ex alto suggestu iam sermonem parante lenissimum meditatnteque allgoqui uelut morigeros iam futuris quidam ex illis furore percitus truci calceo suo in tribunal contorto ‘marha, marha’, quod est apud eos signum bellicum exclamauit eumque secute incondita multitudo uexillo elato repente barbarico ululans ferum in ipsum primcipöem ferebatur, qui com ex alto despiciens plena omnia discurrentis turbae cum missilibus uidisset retectisque gladiis et eurrutis, iam propinquante pernicie externis mixtus et suis ignotusque,...“

This text refers to the happenings of 359 A.D. during the reign of Constantinus II.

Turkologist Gyula Mészáros published a short paper in 1937 titled _Jazyg Linguistic relics in Hungary_ in the Szegedi Alföldkutató Bizottság Könyvtára (Társadalom és néprajzi) Szakosztály Közleményei, no. 31. dealing with the above matter. He remarks that the ”_marha, marha_“ (...”quod est apud eos signum bellicum....) exclamations of the Jazygs can be pronounced in ancient Iranian _mahrka_, in the Ossetian: _marga_. In Hungarian it designates an animal belonging to the bovine race, and also a popular derogatory remark uttered in anger, not unlike the exclamation”you ox“ in the English language.

Historian Sándor Nagy cites Edward Gibbon’s _The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire_ (chapter XIX section 48) where the same quotation of the _marha, marha_ ”battlecry“ appears.

Here I have to stress that these ancient Pannonians used the word _marha_ in the same context as it is used by Hungarians.

***

*Appendix VIII

The Use of the Names Hungary and Magyar*

This author uses the designation Hungary only when designating the present political unit which encompasses the country’s founders, the Magyars and all the other nationalities, whose legal designation came under the title “privileged guests of the Holy Crown.” In my present paper I use the term Magyar whenever I am talking about their language, or the pre-nation ethnic group of the Magyars. At this point I also would like to mention that the names Hun, Avar, Pannon, Jász, Székely, Palóc, etc. in this paper denote a pre-nation ethnicity with distinct dialects within the Magyar mother culture and they have been preserved as such to our days.

***


*Appendix IX

Translation of the title: Decrees of King István I
Published in the yearbook of The Nyíregyháza András Jósa Museum 1969-71*

This segment of the Yearbook deals with the Royal Decrees, crafted upon the suggestion of Pope Sylvester the Second concerning the burning and destroying of all books and manuscripts written in the Magyar and Székely runic characters.

András Vitéz, Canon of Rozsnyó and Supreme Judge of the counties of Gömör and Kishont, translated an important document in 1816, which he found in the Library of the Szilassy family. Its library number was: Vatican in 1000 IX. Cal. oct. Die festo lac. Ap. The following paragraph is a direct quotation from this document:

“_An ordinance, which became law after the council members of King István I. had signed it, contains the following: Domonkos, Archbishop of Esztergom has published the following decree to be followed within the Magyar Christian Church and to be sent to Pope Sylvester at the same time: According to this decree, which came about at the suggestion of Pope Sylvester, that the ancient Magyar letters and carvings and the pagan mode of writing from right to left, which are used by the Magyars, Székelys and Kuns and also by the Magyar Christian priests, should be stopped and the Latin characters should be used instead. It is hereto ordered that the priests should be thought to use these characters and rewarded for doing so and should be forbidden to use the pagan writing, with the penalty of losing teaching and priestly positions and they should also pay a penalty of 20 gold pensas. Furthermore, all the writings, executed with the pagan script within the church and on the pages of prayer books, should be destroyed and changed to Latin. Furthermore, anyone who brings in a pagan script should be rewarded from one to ten denari. The pagan scripts so obtained should be destroyed by iron and fire, so that, with the destruction of these, the memory and the desire for the pagan religion should come to an end_.”

This is the text of the decree by King István I. The writer of the article adds the following:

“We did not know anything about the fact that King István’s above law already dealt with the ancient Magyar letters and carvings which were also used by the Magyar Christian priests and the pagan writing system, the writing from right to left was decreed to be eradicated by iron and fire.

The Magyar people prior to the introduction of the papacy was a literate, well educated people. The priests used the Magyar method of writing, which was composed of ancient, ‘pagan’ script, although many people learned writing only after they had accepted Christianity.”

(These data came to our attention through Mr. Sándor Rácz Austria.)


*I. István király rendelkezésérõl
A nyíregyházi Jósa András múzeum 1969-71 évi évkönyvébõl*

(Vitéz András rozsnyói kanonok, Gömör és Kishont vármegyék táblabírája 1816-ban a Szilassy család levéltárában őrzött értékes oklevelet fordított le. Jelzette: Vatican 1000-ben IX. Cal. oct. Die festo lac. Ap.)

“_I. István király tanácsbelieivel aláíratott és törvénnyé lett rendelet, amelynek értelme szerint: Domonkos esztergomi érseknek a magyar keresztény egyháznál leendő keresztülvitele és egyúttal általa Szilveszter pápával leendő közlésül kiadatott: Mely szerint Szilveszter pápa tanácsolása folytán határozatott, hogy a magyarok, székelyek, kunok, valamint az egyházi magyar keresztény papság által is használt régi magyar betűk és vésetek, a jobbról balra pogány írás megszüntetődjék és helyébe a latin betűk használtassanak. Itt rendeltetik, hogy a papság azok használatára jutalmazás mellett betaníttassék és a pogány írástól, valamint tanításától papi állásának vesztése és 20 arany pensasnak büntetése fizetése mellett eltiltassék. Továbbá, hogy az egyházakban található pogány betükveli felírások és imakönyvek megsemmisíttessenek és latinval felcseréltessenek. Valamint pedig azok, akik régi pogány iratokat beadnak, 1-től 10 denárig kapjanak jutalmat. A beadott iratok és vésetek pedig tűzzel és vassal pusztíttassanak el, hogy ezek kiirtásával a “pogány” vallásra emlékezés, visszavágyódás megszüntetődjék._”

Eddig a latinból való fordítás, amihez a cikkíró még ezt írja:

"Erről eddig mit sem tudtunk, hogy István király fönti törvénye már foglalkozott a magyar keresztény papság által is használt régi magyar betűkkel és vésetekkel, a jobbről balra való „pogány” írás büntetése mellett tűzzel, vassal való kiirtásával.

A magyarság a pápaság behozatala előtt írástudó művelt nép volt, hogy eleinte a papság is a magyar írást használta és régi „pogány” iratai is voltak. Holott számos más nép csak a kereszténység felvétele után tanult meg írni."

(Az adatokat Rácz Sándor, Ausztria hozta figyelmünkbe.)

***

*Appendix X

The Ladánybene Sarmatian text
by Dr. Ferenc Fodor
Budapest, 1982
(Manuscript)

The Ladánybene vessel*

Csallány D. (Ny. Jósa A. Muz. Évk. XI): ‘This dark gray vessel was found in Ladánybene, in Pál Józsa’s *home-land in an authentic appearing Sarmatian grave* which was excavated by Elek Kada in l909 and, from here, it was taken to the Kecskemét Museum.

The vessel’s material and workmanship stands out from similar objects of the Alföld region. Two runic writings (rovás) appear on the side of the vessel, the first was written onto it before, the other after the firing process. The vessel is 12.2 cm. high, the opening is 8.2 cm. It was made with the use of a potter’s wheel and it imitates the Roman provincial vessels.

This vessel regrettably was lost during the ravages of W.W.II in the Kecskemét Museum. I learned this from the Bács Kiskun County Council’s Museum Directory, from H. Elvira Tóth, science adviser, in her letter of March 5, 1980. She wrote, at the same time, that she had inquired from Dr. Kálmán Szabó, who was the Museum’s former director, who certified that the find was from a grave of the Sarmatian era.”

The 15 engraved letters of the script – according to the transliteration of Dr. Dezső Csallány – contains a Latin and a Magyar text. The transliteration relied upon the Székely-Magyar rovás (runic) characters. According to the content of the text, the vessel was used for burial purposes.

Further studies have been published by the following authors:

a. Franz Altheim: „_Geschichte der Hunnen_, I. Berlin. 1959., 295-300, 305. Abb.6-7. IV. Berlin 1962. 134, 286. According to him the script is of Alanic Armacian origin.

b. Szabó, Kálmán: Kecskemét tj. város Muzeuma, é.n. 22.

c. Nagyfalussy, Lajos: _A kecskeméti városi muzeum egy rejtélyes felirata_. (Translation: A mysterious inscription in the city museum of Kecskemét). (Kalocsai Kollégium, 52. sz. Kalocsa. 1936..60,62)

d. Mészáros, Gyula: _Az első hun nyelvemlék_. (Translation: The first Hun language relic). Publ. in _Népünk és nyelvünk_, Szeged, 1936., 1,11

e. u.õ: _Jazyg nyelvemlék Magyarországon_. (Translation: Jazyg script in Hungary) Publ.: _Népünk és nyelvünk_, 1937. 33-51

f. Gaál, László: _Pár szó a ladánybenei jazignak vélt felirat olvasásáról és magyarázatáról_. (Translation: A few words about the Ladánybene inscription believed to be of Jazyg origin.) Széphalom. 1939

g. Nagyfalussy, Lajos: _Ógörögbetűs feliratok az alföldi sírleletekben_; (Translation: Ancient Greek inscription in the Alföld burial), Kalocsai Jézus Társasági Szent István gimnázium 1940 évi évkönyve. Kny. 4-15.1. (The author belonged to the Jesuit order of Kalocsa)

h. Banner, János: _Technikai megjegyzések két népvándorláskori felirat megfejtéséhez_; (Translation: Technical remarks concerning the translation of two inscriptions from the Age of the Great Migrations.) Dolgozatok, 1941. 161-162

i. Párducz, Mihály: - Nagyfalussy Lajos: _Ógörögbetűs feliratok az alföldi sírleletekben_; (Translation: Ancient Greek inscriptions at a burial of the Alföld region.) Dolgozatok. 1941. 187-189.

j. Ferenczi, Géza – Ferenczi, István: Published in 1979 in the volume of „_Műveléstörténeti Tanulmányok_” (Kritérion publishers) on page 14.

k. Csallány, Dezső: mentions in the _Nyiregyházi Muzeum Évk_. Vol. XI. page 289 that one of the texts was scratched into the side of the vessel before, the other after the firing process.

I believe that, when the vessel was found, there already was an inscription („castus ordo urna”) which remained there during the firing process and that the second inscription was applied at the death of the monk. There is no reason to believe the script to be Sarmatian.

* 
Ladánybenei edény
Dr. Fodor Ferenc kéziratos műve 
Budapest, 1982

Ladánybene edény*

Csallány D. (Ny. Jósa A. Muz. Évk. XI): ‘Ladánybenén, Józsa Pál szülőföldjén, Kada Elek által l909-ben feltárt, *hitelesnek látszó szarmata sírból *került be a kecskeméti múzeumba, egy különösen gondos iszapolású, sötétebb szürke színű edény, amely kiemelkedik az Alföld megfelelő termékei közül. Ezen az edényen két rovásszöveg látszik, az első az edény égetése előtt, a másik az edény égetése után került az edény oldalára.’

Az edény 12.2 cm. magas, szájátmérője 8.2 cm. Korongolt, római provinciai edény utánzata.

Az edény sajnos a második világháború alatt a Kecskeméti Múzeumban megsemmisült. Erről, a Bács-Kiskunmegyei Tanács Múzeum Ig. részéről H. Tóth Elvira tud. munkatárs értesített: 1980 március 5.-én kelt levelével.

Írta ugyanakkor, hogy tájékozódott Dr. Szabó Kálmán volt muzeumigazgatónál, aki megerősítette, hogy a lelet szarmatakori volt.”

A rovásfelirat 15 betűje Dr. Csallány Dezső feloldása szerint latin és magyar szöveget tartalmaz, melyhez alapul a székely-magyar rovásbetűk szolgáltak. A szöveg tartalma szerint az edényt temetkezésnél használták.

Dr. Fodor Ferenc a további vonatkozásokat közli:

„9. A lelettel foglalkoztak még:

a. Franz Altheim: „_Geschichte der Hunnen_, I. Berlin. 1959., 295-300, 305. Abb.6-7. IV. Berlin 1962. 134, 286. Szerinte alán ármaci írás.

b. Szabó Kálmán: Kecskemét tj. város Múzeuma, é.n. 22.

c. Nagyfalussy Lajos: _A kecskeméti városi múzeum egy rejtélyes felirata_. (Kalocsai Kollégium, 52. sz. Kalocsa. 1936..60,62)

d. Mészáros Gyula: _Az első hun nyelvemlék_. Népünk és nyelvünk, Szeged, 1936., 1,11

e. u.o: _Jazyg nyelvemlék Magyarországon_. Népünk és nyelvünk, 1937. 33-51

f. Gaál László: _Pár szó a ladánybenei jazignak vélt felirat olvasásáról és magyarázatáról_. Széphalom. 1939

g. Nagyfalussy Lajos: _Ógörögbetűs feliratok az alföldi sírleletekben_; Kalocsai Jézus Társasági Szent István gimnázium 1940 évi évkönyve.Kny. 4-15.1. (Nagyfalussy a Jézus Társaság tagja volt.)

h. Banner János: _Technikai megjegyzések két népvándorláskori felirat megfejtéséhez_; Dolgozatok, 1941. 161-162

i. Párducz Mihály: - Nagyfalussy Lajos: _Ógörögbetüs feliratok az alföldi sírleletekben_; Dolgozatok. 1941. 187-189.

j. Ferenczi Géza – Ferenczi István: Az 1979-ben megjelent „_Műveléstörténeti Tanulmányok_” kötetben (Kritérion) a 14. oldalon említik a leletet.

k. Csallány Dezső: említi a Nyiregyházi Múzeum Évk. XI. kötetének 289 oldalán, hogy az egyik feliratot még égetés előtt, a másodikat az után karcolták az edény oldalára.

Úgy vélem, hogy ennek megfelel az, hogy amikor az edényt megtalálták felirattal ellátva („castus ordo urna”) kiégették, - és amint már előbb említettem, a második karcolat a használó szerzetes halálakor került reá. Semmi ok nincs arra, hogy a rovásjeleket szarmata jeleknek véljük.”

***

*Appendix XI

Data to the Etruscan-Magyar affiliations*

Adorján Magyar _Az Ősműveltség_, Budapest, 1995 discusses Etruscan culture as derived from the ancient Magyar culture.

Rev. Géza Kur (_Fáklya periodical_, Warren, Ohio) presents convincing arguments concerning Etruscan script and vocabulary in relation to the Magyar rovás (runic writing) and language.

Susan Tomory: _Kezdeteink_, explains the first European representation of Turan, mother Goddess of the Etruscans.

Mario Alieni Etrusco, _una forma arcaica di Ungherese Etruscan as an archaic form of the Magyar language_. Il Mulino publishers.

***

*References*

Geoffrey Ashe, _Mythology of the British Isles_,Trafalgar Square Publishing, North Pomfret, Vermont

Grandpierre, K. Endre, _Aranykincsek Hulltak a Hargitára_, (_Gold Treasures Fell Upon The Hargita_) Népszava Publ. Budapest, 1990

_Encyclopaedia Britannica_ Vol. 4, 5, 10

Herodotus _History_, 2nd. vol. Every Man’s Library 405, 406 London, 1949

Magyar, Adorján _Az Ősműveltség_, (_The Ancient History_) Publ. Magyar Adorján Baráti Kör Budapest, 1995

C. Scott Littleton _Were the Sarmatians the source of Arthurian legend?_ Archaeology, January/February 1997

Dr. Baráth, Tibor _A Magyar Népek Őstörténete_ (_The History of the Magyar Peoples_) Publ. Zoltán Somogyi 1968

Erdélyi, Zsuzsanna _Hegyet hágék, lőtőt lépék_, (_A Collection of Archaic Magyar Prayers_) Magvető Könyvkiadó Budapest 1976

Ipolyi, Arnold Magyar _Mythologia_, (_Magyar Mythology_) Ferenc Zajti publ. Third edition, Budapest, 1929

Papp, Antal _Utikönyvek. Magyarország_, (_Hungarian Travel books_) Seventh edition. Panoráma Publ. Budapest.

Journal of Archæology, 1966. I., Vol. 93. Akadémiai Kiadó Budapest

Tomory, Zsuzsa _Magyar English Word Origins_, 1995 Manuscript

Tomory, Zsuzsa _Kezdeteink_, (_Our Beginnings_), 1995 Nagy Lajos Magánegyetem Bölcsész Egyesülete Miskolc, 2000

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1996 June 27th

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[1] Count Széchenyi was the founder of the Hungarian Academy of Sciences.
[2] After the defeat of the 1848 Hungarian freedom fight he entered an asylum in Austria to save his family from ruin. Here he remained until his death.
[3] Matthias Corvinus was King of Hungary in the 15th century. His reign brought unprecedented growth in economy, scholarship and standard of life for all within the borders of historical Hungary.
[4] Quote by Quintus Horatius Flaccus, it is the first line of his ode To Caesar Augustus.
[5] The letter was copied by Zichy, Geyza with his own signature.

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*A New View of the Arthurian Legends*_ - *Susan V. Tomory*_ - Part 1 - Part 2 - Part 3 - Part 4 - Part 5


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## PantaOz (Jul 12, 2022)

Interesting... but a major problem for that part of the world is that people always try to prove that their "nation" is the oldest one or has some connection with the best...

I read lots of literature about Scythian (Skiti -the name they used to describe themselves - in most Slavic languages could be translated with NOMADS) and Sarmatians (or Sarmati) - and believe me, EVERY NATION ON THE BALKAN has "facts" that they are the oldest nation ever existing and somehow connected to those two! I do not want to discuss too much on this topic, but the Serbian national dish is called "sarma" (wrapped sour cabbage leaves with meat and spices with rice), and most of the people believe that is coming from the earliest cuisine! Serbians believe, and some Hellenic historians agree, that “Oni su Srbi, kako se zna u starini, Sarmati…” or “Those Serbs were in old times known as Sarmatians…” Persians used a common name for the Sarmatians and Scythians – Saki… but we know that they were fighting each other… so, were the brotherly tribes or enemies? There is always some evidence for or against!

Problem of Europe is that everyone drags water to their own watermill! They never share! So, they will never cooperate or find the truth…


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## Safranek (Jul 12, 2022)

PantaOz said:


> Interesting... but a major problem for that part of the world is that people always try to prove that their "nation" is the oldest one or has some connection with the best...


Yes, you nailed down the major problem. It is akin to 5 brothers (a family) fighting each other for control of their father's kingdom, taken to a tribal and eventually to a national level. Naturally, this has continually opened them up to a divide and conquer scenario by others, leading to loss of their unity and thereby their true culture and writing traditions containing their histories.

 The Scythians have a complex history which is slowly being unraveled by current historians, what's making it difficult is that their writings have been systematically destroyed and all current information only comes through the copies of primary sources of some Greek (some of them were of Scythian origin), Arabic, Roman, etc. scholars, who have ascribed to them a huge variety of 'tribal' names.

This genetic study show the common ancient heritage of most of Europe and also raises a few questions.

https://carswell.com.au/wp-content/...eolithic-homo-sapiens-in-extant-europeans.pdf

Here's a chart from the above article:






... and here's a quote:

_ In the plot, it is possible to see three clusters of distinct geography and culture. The first comprises Basques and Western Europeans, the second Middle Eastern, and *the third Eastern European populations from Croatia, Ukraine, Hungary, and Poland*_*. *_These three geographic clusters correspond to the major glacial refuges and to the region of origin of the farmers’ expansion._​​I think we can now see the glaring issue. Those 'nations' of the first group (_column Eu18_) are essentially of the same recent genetic stock and have been at war with each other for centuries (namely Germans, Dutch, French, Andalusian, Catalan, Basque and Northern Italian). Genetically speaking, Northern Italians are not only closer but identical to Northern and Western Europeans than they are to their Southern Italian and Calabrese countrymen.

The Czechs and Slovaks fit nicely in between the first and second group, sharing genetic markers fairly evenly from both Eu18 and Eu19, and just 'coincidentally' happen to be physically located right in between group 1 and 2.

Of those nations in the second group (_column Eu19_), three of them are known as 'Slavs' while the Hungarians stand out like a sore thumb as non-Slavic. Obviously modern linguistics and history is not making sense given the genetic data. So here, this leaves us with two possibilities.

1. The Croatians, Ukrainians and Poles lost much of their original language which was originally Magyar or a dialect thereof, and became 'Slavicized' by conquering forces.​
2. The Hungarians lost much of their original language and became 'Hungarianized' linguistically.​
The problem with the second option is how that could happen when no 'nation' around them could have done this as neither the Slavic or Latin languages are anywhere close to the Magyar language. The option that the Magyars could have just dropped into Europe from somewhere else can also be excluded as certain markers in their genetics as shown in the graph above are identical to their so-called 'Slavic' neighbors, which share much of the same cultural aspects.

Another piece of information to support the 2nd hypothesis is this quote from part 6 of this article Appendix IX:
​*Translation of the title: Decrees of King István I*​*Published in the yearbook of The Nyíregyháza András Jósa Museum 1969-71*​​This segment of the Yearbook deals with the *Royal Decrees*, crafted upon the *suggestion of Pope Sylvester the Second concerning the burning and destroying of all books and manuscripts written in the Magyar and Székely runic characters*.​
András Vitéz, Canon of Rozsnyó and Supreme Judge of the counties of Gömör and Kishont, translated an important document in 1816, which he found in the Library of the Szilassy family. Its library number was: Vatican in 1000 IX. Cal. oct. Die festo lac. Ap. The following paragraph is a direct quotation from this document:​
_“An ordinance, which became law after the council members of King István I. had signed it, contains the following: Domonkos, Archbishop of Esztergom has published the following decree to be followed within the Magyar Christian Church and to be sent to Pope Sylvester at the same time: *According to this decree, which came about at the suggestion of Pope Sylvester, that the ancient Magyar letters and carvings and the pagan mode of writing from right to left, which are used by the Magyars, Székelys and Kuns and also by the Magyar Christian priests, should be stopped and the Latin characters should be used instead.* It is hereto ordered that the priests should be thought to use these characters and rewarded for doing so and should be forbidden to use the pagan writing, with the penalty of losing teaching and priestly positions and they should also pay a penalty of 20 gold pensas. _*F*_*urthermore, all the writings, executed with the pagan script within the church and on the pages of prayer books, should be destroyed and changed to Latin.* Furthermore, anyone who brings in a pagan script should be rewarded from one to ten denari. *The pagan scripts so obtained should be destroyed by iron and fire, so that, with the destruction of these, the memory and the desire for the pagan religion should come to an end.”*_​​So we know the Scythians did not use the Latin characters, we also know that none of the 'nations' in groups 1 and 2 of the genetic study used them either up until the Roman conquest and Christianization. and we know that the Magyars did not use them until the 'Royal Decree' mentioned above, forcing the systematic destruction of their alphabet.

What this shows is that the Magyars were the last to use that ancient alphabet in Europe and that the so-called Anglo-Saxon, Nordic and Germanic tribes' runic writing was replaced by Latin script upon their conquering by the Romans. The same applies to so-called Slavs and the so-called Rus who may have used that runic script maybe longer than the Magyars, but most all evidence of this has been destroyed by the Roman conquest of Russia via the Czarist regimes and eventually completed by the Bolsheviks.

Some glaring examples of what was once common to all Europeans:






Old Futhark:





Slavic:





Old Hungarian (Magyar):




Norse Elder:





Hunnish:





Scythian:






Now let's look at some Proto-Saharan pottery marks:






and the Yahu Seals:











We can see similarities in all ancient scripts to a lesser or greater extent, and I posted the last two to show that there are characters used in all that seem to date back to a time when writing systems may have, or even likely have shared a common source. By this source I mean the possibility of truth being in the ancient stories of the flood and its aftermath. Chronology is questionable as it stands, but archeology (_obviously only that which has not been altered or planted_), genetics and linguistics can be fairly solid guides to unravel the past.



PantaOz said:


> Those Serbs were in old times known as Sarmatians…” Persians used a common name for the Sarmatians and Scythians – Saki… but we know that they were fighting each other… so, were the brotherly tribes or enemies? There is always some evidence for or against!


Yes they likely were along with the rest of Central Europe before the Roman and Ottoman conquests. But keep in mind that those names foreigners referred to these Scythian tribes were not what they called themselves in most cases.

So my current assessment according to what information I've studied so far is that we have a situation in Europe at present, where a common people of Scythian stock seem to have formed three close but distinct genetic 'families' (_as the above genetic study shows_) via their cultural isolation from each other due to conquests by Romans and Ottomans (_also of Scythian stock but separated previously to the European separation and 'Romanized' and 'Ottomanized' accordingly_).

Through the years, these 'nations' fought each other; Germans vs. Anglo-Saxons vs French vs. Spanish vs. Slavs vs. Huns vs. Nordics etc., and being weakened by their constant infighting, left themselves open for conquest by the well-funded and organized Roman and Ottoman forces who came in to erase the cultural and linguistic unity of the former European Nations (_as shown in their previous 'common' alphabets_).

As we know from more recent history, the divide and conquer scenario is usually planned and executed via espionage to be followed by wars which require extensive funding to execute, the most important aspect of future research would be the logistics of exactly who, when and how executed this plan to gradually subdue Europe, assuming there was and maybe is, a plan.



PantaOz said:


> Problem of Europe is that everyone drags water to their own watermill! They never share! So, they will never cooperate or find the truth…


Unfortunately for Europeans, this will continue to remain a problem until enough of them manage to look outside of the current 'Educational' or better termed 'Indoctrination' system and become aware of what actually went down in Europe over the past few centuries, which began long before the destruction of their religion and alphabets, at the initiation of Judeo-Christianity.

As it is, this is not likely to happen in the near future. The saying holds true that "All the roads lead to Rome." when we interpret by Rome, to be those who planned, funded and executed the grand scheme of Europe's destruction (_and not the formerly Scythian Roman population_), which has not benefited ANY of its 'nations' since this conquest began. The only question to ask is; Who benefited from this divide and conquer? And who's been providing the bread and circus?


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## PantaOz (Jul 12, 2022)

Thak you for a wonderful answer... I am always sceptical with the actual DNA... because never enough Scythians to test or Samatians... only few, so if there is a family like mine there will be three races in three generations! And conclussions could be quite interesting. What we learned during our history classes was that the Slavs came to the Balkans aound the tenth century... but I remember a document from the Vatican Archives (I can find it later because I got a photo in my first book from 20 years ago about the Lost Tribes of Israel) in which Alexander the Great thanks the Slavs for the support they provided against his enemies! So, out history is really a patchwork of propaganda and revision served after the World Wars. About the Runic vaiants and writing, I've seen the identical ones in Tunisia and parts of China! So, I am not sure what to conclude, but I remember that after 12 years of following the language trail and trying to find a common source... I stopped the research. It was leading nowhere!


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## ViniB (Jul 12, 2022)

I may have something useful to add, there's many legends all over South america, central and north too, about a red haired man with blue eyes that arrived some unknown time before the europeans. Upon his arrival he began to spread spiritual knowledge with the natives and was called by many names but all of them not only sound similar but writting is mind bending similar:

Sommay or Sumi by the caraibas 
Mara by the botucados 
Zemni, Zama or Zamima by the haitians 
Kukulcan in several mexican areas 
Bochica by the chibchas 
Pay-sumé in paraguay 
Quetzalcoatl in north america

And many others, the character associated would be saint Thomas! This is crazy. The Gavea stone has some intetesting runes carved in it too

My biggest problem with historians interpretations of said legends is, they read red hair + blue eyes and immediately jump to It'S ViKiNgS conclusion.....


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## PantaOz (Jul 12, 2022)

I know the feeling... @ViniB If we can have access to all the materials, to sit down and from that material, artefacts and digs, all together find the truth it would be wonderful. Sadly, most of the scientists these days set up the theory, get paid by the government's institutions to prove the theory that suits those who pay the bill... and then argue for the rest of their lives protecting their achievements!
Scythian:


 I just noticed something... characters 16 and 17 are very similar sounds and today both of those sounds can be found only in the Macedonian language... "З" (Z) and "S" (DZ)... second one is not Latin S... that is in Macedonian "C" (Latin S). The "DZ" sound is somehow connected to some of the Croatian Islands - especially pronunciation on island of Brach! But genetically Macedonians and Croatians are not really connected.


 



Comparing these two (Hungarian and Scythian runes) seems futule... almost everything is different... but if I take the Macedonian language, even today letters "Б" number 3, "Ж" number 15, "З" number 16, "Ѕ" number 17... and many others (Ф, Ш, Л, П) are identical!


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## Safranek (Jul 12, 2022)

PantaOz said:


> I am always sceptical with the actual DNA


I would compare genetics to statistics. When used strictly within the rules of the trade, it can shed a light on reality in a fantastic way, on the other hand, when misused, it can show anything you want it to show. Hence why I posted this particular study where certain genetic rules are met and maintained, with no underlying purpose to falsify the testing to a desired outcome.



PantaOz said:


> But genetically Macedonians and Croatians are not really connected.


I don't believe this to be true for two reasons. One is they have been living very close to each other and some intermarriages can't be excluded from that scenario, additionally, they are both descendants of Scythian 'tribes'.

The second reason is the fact that when looking at the genetic chart from the above article, both Croatians and Macedonians have 30% and 35% of their genetic markers for those certain alleles in the Eu19 column of the 3rd European genetic group, putting them into spots 5 and 6 behind the Hungarians, Poles, Ukrainians and Udmurts respectively, and they have spots 2 and 3 in the Eu7 column, which they share with the Germans, Dutch and Poles, with Saami in number 1 spot there. So we're all related, its just a question of when and where the separation took place.



PantaOz said:


> I just noticed something... characters 16 and 17 are very similar sounds and today both of those sounds can be found only in the Macedonian language... "З" (Z) and "S" (DZ)... second one is not Latin S... that is in Macedonian "C" (Latin S).


Yes, there are many characters that can be shown to have belonged to a number of alphabets/scripts.  As I mentioned in my post, I just posted a few examples of the scripts, not particularly for identification of the characters, but to show in general, that the writing of Europeans was definitely not current Latin or Cyrillic, although both of those were formed from the older Scythian scripts.



PantaOz said:


> Comparing these two (Hungarian and Scythian runes) seems futule... almost everything is different... but if I take the Macedonian language, even today letters "Б" number 3, "Ж" number 15, "З" number 16, "Ѕ" number 17... and many others (Ф, Ш, Л, П) are identical!


Since the Scythians ruled vast territories, warred within themselves for regional supremacy including having some periods of isolation of some of their 'tribes', we must consider that centuries passed between the tribes of the Scythians of the BC era and the subsequent various scripts/alphabets which were separately evolved in each of their tribes through the periods of their isolation and the periods of their conquests of their 'brother' nations.

They didn't disappear at all, they just went under different names throughout history, in their next phase a large part of them were called the Huns and the Turks. They were the same people but renamed throughout history. See here and here.

So from the days of Scythia on, all their 'tribes' and 'nations' kept evolving their cultures and writing systems as circumstances enabled them depending on whether they were strong enough to protect and evolve their culture or whether they were subdued by others and were forced to pick up foreign customs. In many cases, the foreign customs only meant the customs of a related 'tribe/nation' which meant very small changes, while in the case of the Romans or Ottomans, it meant a total destruction and rewriting of their cultures and histories.

So the last *widely used* European runic writing on record (_according to the letter quoted above_) was the Old Hungarian script, still in use in the year 1000 AD by the Magyars, when it also met its final demise at the hands of Rome, like the rest of the Old European scripts.

Regarding the progression of linguistics of nations, one only has to look at how Old English, Old German or Old Slavic has evolved over the last few centuries (just to name a few) and it becomes evident that the languages and alphabets also evolve even under their own cultural influences, while more drastically when a considerable effort is made by outside forces to bring about that change to bury the connections between them.


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## PantaOz (Jul 13, 2022)

I enjoyed reading the texts, and they will definitelly positively contribute to the research of the subject!


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