# A war against Germany hidden in plain sight



## Onijunbei (Sep 14, 2020)

In 1939 both Germany and Russia invaded Poland. Germany from the west and Russia from the east.. Both armies met up in Warsaw and the two countries split Poland in half to rule.  England and France denounced Hitler, called him a war monger and proceeded to declare war upon Germany.  For six months Germany did nothing except try to come to peace.  During this same six months Russia invaded Finland and would continue to invade 4 more countries to make six total countries invaded.  England and France did not declare war on Russia and didn't say anything about their invasion of Poland and the other countries.  Their answer to Stalins war mongering was to in fact invite him to join the Allies against the evil war mongering Germany.  
Obfuscation of history is not just an ancient one... It involves modern history as well.





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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: ApollyonDate: 2018-11-04 03:34:54Reaction Score: 11


Isn't it interesting that Edward Viii was a huge fan of Hitler but also sought refuge with his good friend Baroness Kitty de Rothschild?

It's also strangely interesting that the main ideologue behind nazi ideology was named Alfred Rosenberg an ashkenazi surname.

Hitler also drew Disney characters 

Did Adolf Hitler draw Disney characters?


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## Magnus (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: MagnusDate: 2018-11-04 08:08:03Reaction Score: 18


Adolf Hitler, just like Osama bin Laden  the most feared and reportedly Evil men in modern history, have no grave markers and the public was never shown their dead bodies.

Compare to Mussolini or Ghadaffi, is there any doubt what happened to their corpses and any doubt their lives were 100% ended?

I believe its possible Adolf Hitler was like James Bond.  One character, played by many different actors.  Just like Putin, just like Trump.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: TyrionDate: 2019-01-17 16:37:46Reaction Score: 6


I have no doubt Hitler died in the bunker, he never escaped to Argentine or any other place. His life had to end when his magnum opus died (The Third Reich). He couldn’t continue on living because there was no way the allies would have let him escape, he would have suffered a fate even worse than that of Hess or the rest of Nazi officials at Nuremberg.

The Vatican Ratline was just a bonus given to traitorous Germans who could bargain their freedom. Mussolini, Ghaddafi, even though they were honourable men, suffered because their will to live caused them their horrible fates, and I can’t blame them, they were victims but there was no way for them to survive, especially when you stand against the ziobanksters and threaten their status quo.


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## JimDuyer (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Jim DuyerDate: 2019-01-17 18:42:36Reaction Score: 16


The Russian regime killed a lot more people than Hitler ever did.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: AndromedaDate: 2019-01-17 18:49:20Reaction Score: 1


A bit off topic, but I can't find the YT-video where the narrator claims Russia and America is connected by land and that both pres. Trump and pres. Putin lives in the same city..

It was posted here on SH.

Anyone else recalling?


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## anotherlayer (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: anotherlayerDate: 2019-01-17 19:47:36Reaction Score: 2




Andromeda said:


> A bit off topic, but I can't find the YT-video where the narrator claims Russia and America is connected by land and that both pres. Trump and pres. Putin lives in the same city..
> 
> It was posted here on SH.
> 
> Anyone else recalling?


_This _thread made mention. And there is this YouTube video.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: MoriartyDate: 2019-03-25 23:08:06Reaction Score: 7




Tyrion said:


> I have no doubt Hitler died in the bunker, he never escaped to Argentine or any other place. His life had to end when his magnum opus died (The Third Reich). He couldn’t continue on living because there was no way the allies would have let him escape, he would have suffered a fate even worse than that of Hess or the rest of Nazi officials at Nuremberg.
> 
> The Vatican Ratline was just a bonus given to traitorous Germans who could bargain their freedom. Mussolini, Ghaddafi, even though they were honourable men, suffered because their will to live caused them their horrible fates, and I can’t blame them, they were victims but there was no way for them to survive, especially when you stand against the ziobanksters and threaten their status quo.


There is no evidence Hitler died at the bunker. That was Russian propaganda and it was later proved that the skull they had was too small to be the Fuhrer


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: ObertrynDate: 2019-04-07 07:41:43Reaction Score: 1


I wonder if the Soviets actually captured Hitler and then just pretended like he committed suicide while probably torturing him to death. It's kind of odd, because Hitler from his surviving texts seemed like the type of fellow with a whole heap of over-the-top gusto who would probably consider going out by shooting himself and his loved ones dishonorable or, to put it in slightly more vulgar terms, "going out like a bitch". I'm not sure, he was supposed to have made a radio announcement that he would be killing himself before committing the deed, but I couldn't find many references to it.

And assuming they did capture and execute him (likely making sure he died in agony), they wouldn't want to show it off to the world. The Soviet Union had a weird obsession with keeping a squeaky clean reputation regarding their acts in World War II and blaming any and every atrocity they could on the Nazis. Killing the fuhrer, Gaddafi-style, would probably give the rest of the Allies pause regarding their communist comrades.

Just some theorizing, mind you. Nothing concrete for now.


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## JWW427 (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: JWW427Date: 2019-09-12 17:38:57Reaction Score: 11


Slightly off topic.
From my research I've concluded that Edward VIII wanted the role of king to be made all-powerful and omnipotent again, and he simply adored the Nazis and Hitler. He wanted to be an English dictator. When he was coronated king, he made broad overtures towards Hitler via Lord Mosely, the famous British BUF fascist. Edward wanted England aligned with Nazi Germany come hell or high water, especially with war looming. This news was hushed up post haste, as they say.

But Edward and his––shocking!––American divorcé wife Wallace Simpson were both reportedly homosexuals, and had an "arranged marriage." My gay friends all say this was common knowledge and common practice in the underground gay circles back in the day. Even Lord Mountbatten batted lefty. Being divorced was scandalous enough for Wallace, and most Brits did not want a third-rate yankee colonial "Queen Wally."

The problem was twofold. Edward could be blackmailed for his sexual preference (the era was highly intolerant), and therefore that became a liability for the English government.

It's highly probable that Prime Minister Stanley Baldwin forced him off the throne for those two issues in a private meeting, even though Winston Churchill was a firm believer in the divine right of kings. But even he relented eventually. It was a royal shitfest. It makes sense to me that Churchill was at the meeting, but there's no hard evidence. WC knew Edward well.

The dots connect.
I think Baldwin played hardball with King Eddy, and promised to secretly "out" him unless he abdicated. The nonsense bedtime story that Edward left the throne for LOVE is silly, and few British elites bought the London Times-worthy tall tale even back then. No King would do that, especially one who wanted to be Hitler's fancy-pants pet shop boy with one helluva big Royal Navy, so to speak. No doubt in my mind Hitler and Edward would have dominated Europe and much more if aligned. But I doubt the British people would have stood for that. Someone would have shot Edward is my guess.
No offense to gay folks everywhere, I love you all, but Edward and Wallace were *bad news.

................................

Funny story:* Stalin reportedly did not believe the news of the German invasion in 1941. He took two long weeks to evaluate the situation. Apparently, he could not believe his friend Hitler would betray him.

*Another:* I think there's half-decent evidence that Hitler was forcibly sedated in the Führer Bunker and flown out of Berlin by the famous woman test pilot Hanna Reitsch. She was waiting with a fast plane at the Berlin airdrome, and that's a fact. Then on to Barcelona and the infamous Ratline. Then onto a U-Boat in northwest Spain.
Hitler was an important symbol to Nazis everywhere in 1945, but that was it. He was useless otherwise. A liability even.
I think he possibly made it to Argentina's German town San Carlos de Bariloche, but Hitler was in horrible shape. He'd been heavily drugged for years by his quack doctor---cocaine, heroin, meth––and had Parkinson's disease. He probably didn't live for too long, especially after such a defeat.
No Nazi Party official or SS soldier ever signed the armistice agreement, regular Army General Alfred Jodl signed it for Germany.

JWW


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## Cemen (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: CemenDate: 2019-09-12 23:13:35Reaction Score: 2




Jim Duyer said:


> The Russian regime killed a lot more people than Hitler ever did.


Are you serious?


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## Onijunbei (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: OnijunbeiDate: 2019-09-16 22:04:10Reaction Score: 11




Cemen said:


> Are you serious?


It is statistical...


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## codis (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: codisDate: 2019-09-17 11:25:29Reaction Score: 5


Solschenizyn estimated about 60 million, if I remember correctly.
As a side note, Stalin's decree to burn the ground ahead of the advancing German Army (burn villages, kill citizens unwilling to flee) still exist in the Kremlin, as original document. It also states to do that it should be executed preferably in captured or counterfeited German uniforms.
During the war and a few decades after, large parts of the world still believed the Germans were guilty of the Katyn massacre.

	Post automatically merged: 9/17/19



JWW427 said:


> *Another:* I think there's half-decent evidence that Hitler was forcibly sedated in the Führer Bunker and flown out of Berlin by the famous woman test pilot Hanna Reitsch.


The sedation part is new to me - but not implausible.
So much is true, Hitler was not much more then a figurehead. People like Bormann, Kammler and others were pulling strings with nothing but an occasional pro forma nod towards the "Führer".



JWW427 said:


> No Nazi Party official or SS soldier ever signed the armistice agreement, regular Army General Alfred Jodl signed it for Germany.


No peace treaty with the Allied Forces yet (only Russia), and the regarding UN Enemy State clause is still in effect. Nothing else to add ...


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## Cemen (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: CemenDate: 2019-09-18 09:55:58Reaction Score: 5




Onijunbei said:


> It is statistical...


I don’t know where you got such statistics from.

According to archival data of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs (memorandum to Khrushchev from the Ministry of Internal Affairs), from 1921 to 1953, 642,980 people were executed for counter-revolutionary crimes.

Well, immediately about the prisoners.

The number of prisoners of the Gulag (as of January 1 of each year).

1. year
2. In forced labor
camps
3. Of those convicted of
counterrevolutionary crimes
4. The same percentage
5. In forced labor
colonies
6. Total


Certificate of mortality of prisoners in the Gulag system for the period 1930-1956.

1. year
2. The number of dead
3.% dead
to the middle


ГУЛАГ — Википедия



codis said:


> Solschenizyn estimated about 60 million, if I remember correctly.


66 million. If I remember it right.

Solzhenitsyn’s lies have long been disassembled verbatim, and discussing his waste of time.



codis said:


> As a side note, Stalin's decree to burn the ground ahead of the advancing German Army (burn villages, kill citizens unwilling to flee) still exist in the Kremlin, as original document. It also states to do that it should be executed preferably in captured or counterfeited German uniforms.
> During the war and a few decades after, large parts of the world still believed the Germans were guilty of the Katyn massacre.


Order of the Headquarters of the Supreme High Command No. 0428
November 17, 1941

Part of the order.

The High Command Headquarters orders:

1. Destroy and burn to the ground all settlements in the rear of German troops at a distance of 40-60 km in depth from the front line and 20-30 km to the right and left of the roads.

To destroy settlements within the specified range, immediately drop aircraft, make extensive use of artillery and mortar fire, reconnaissance teams, skiers and partisan sabotage groups equipped with Molotov cocktails, grenades and subversive weapons.

2. In each regiment, create teams of hunters of 20-30 people each for the explosion and burning of settlements in which [c. 283] the enemy troops are located. To select the most courageous and politically-strong fighters, commanders and political workers into teams of hunters, carefully explaining to them the tasks and the significance of this event for the defeat of the German army. Outstanding daredevils for brave actions to destroy the settlements in which the German troops are located, represent the government award.

3. In the event of the forced withdrawal of our units in one or another section, the Soviet population should be taken with them and it is imperative to destroy all settlements without exception, so that the enemy could not use them. First of all, for this purpose, use the teams of hunters allocated in the shelves.

4. The military councils of fronts and individual armies systematically check how the tasks of destroying settlements in the above radius from the front line are carried out. The rate every 3 days to report in a separate summary how many and which settlements were destroyed over the past days and by what means these results were achieved.

Take civilians with you, not kill.


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## codis (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: codisDate: 2019-09-18 11:24:55Reaction Score: 13




Cemen said:


> Solzhenitsyn’s lies have long been disassembled verbatim, and discussing his waste of time.


Says who ?


Cemen said:


> According to archival data of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs...


Governments, and especially Communist one's never lie. Do they ?
Do the numbers of include all the higher-ranking military disposed off during the "great purge" ?
And the Poles and Ukrainians that died during the holodomor ?
O sorry, this were just a climate-related bad harvests, and all the crops exported themselves to the West.


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## Cemen (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: CemenDate: 2019-09-18 12:43:09Reaction Score: 3




codis said:


> Says who ?


I say. I simply do not want to raise an array of information, statistics and other things on this issue.

And about Solzhenitsyn, we even have a saying- "the greatest number of people shot Solzhenitsyn during repressions" (I hope that the Google translator translated correctly).
(Solzhenitsyn killed the largest number of people)



codis said:


> Governments, and especially Communist one's never lie. Do they ?


It was Khrushchev who began the debunking of the Stalin personality cult and the voicing of political repression.



codis said:


> Do the numbers of include all the higher-ranking military disposed off during the "great purge" ?


Of course.



codis said:


> And the Poles and Ukrainians that died during the holodomor ?
> O sorry, this were just a climate-related bad harvests, and all the crops exported themselves to the West.


In the early twentieth century in Russia were hungry: 1901-1902, 1905-1908 and 1911 - 1912.
In the years 1901 - 1902, 49 provinces went hungry: in 1901 - 6.6%, 1902 - 1%, 1903 - 0.6%, 1904 - 1.6%.
In 1905 - 1908. From 19 to 29 provinces went hungry: in 1905 - 7.7%, 1906 - 17.3% of the population
In 1911 - 1912, over 2 years, famine swept 60 provinces: in 1911 - 14.9% of the population.
On the brink of death were 30 million people.

Just for an example.


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## DanFromMN (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: DanfromMNDate: 2020-02-24 19:12:34Reaction Score: 2




Onijunbei said:


> Obfuscation of history is not just an ancient one... It involves modern history as well.


I've been told by persons smarter than myself that the more recent the history is, the easier it is to obscure.


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## wild heretic (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: wild hereticDate: 2020-02-24 19:34:40Reaction Score: 3




Magnus said:


> Adolf Hitler, just like Osama bin Laden  the most feared and reportedly Evil men in modern history, have no grave markers and the public was never shown their dead bodies.
> 
> Compare to Mussolini or Ghadaffi, is there any doubt what happened to their corpses and any doubt their lives were 100% ended?
> 
> I believe its possible Adolf Hitler was like James Bond.  One character, played by many different actors.  Just like Putin, just like Trump.


Yeah i doubt any of them died per the narrative. Ghadaffis corpse face on that video looked just like those rubber masks u can buy. Same for sadamn husein. They captured his body double. Rumour had it he was extradited by us intelligence as part of the deal.


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## JimDuyer (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Jim DuyerDate: 2020-02-24 19:45:19Reaction Score: 1




Cemen said:


> Are you serious?


As a heart attack.


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## dreamtime (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: dreamtimeDate: 2020-02-24 19:49:51Reaction Score: 20


Everything surrounding Nazism and WW2 definitely was part of a secret war against Germany, but the war is still ongoing, and goes back many centuries. Tacitus' Germania is one of the earliest propaganda works used in the war against the Germans.

Until the Thirty-Years War the Netherlands were part of the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation (according to the offical narrative) and were then split off to make a buffer state to protect Great Britain.

Under Charlemagne, Germany and France (Frankenreich) were a single country, which was later divided into the Western France (France), Central France (Alsace-Lorraine) and Eastern France (Germany). Previously, these were closely connected territories which were only divided into Gallia and Germania during the Roman occupation.

What about England? Due to migration, England is populated by the Anglo-Saxons who have their origin in Germany, and the Britons (from French Brittany, hence the word Great Britain). The Angles and Saxons were two Germanic tribes, and the Bretons are a Germanic tribe from the Gallic area. (As a sidenote, the so-called 'angels' in the bible were probably related to the germanic tribe of the same name).

How about the Russians? They are a mixture of the native Slavs and the immigrated Prussians.

Prussians and Russians are therefore closely related to the ancient Germans. This is in contrast to the Scandinavians who are often regarded by nationalists as close relatives of the Germanic tribes. Rather the opposite. It was a male Aryan army (that's where the blond hair colour comes from) from the Caucasus which conquered the Germanic mainland areas, killed a large part of the male population and settled here with the remaining women. That means that genetically speaking we have more to do with the Russians than with the Scandinavians.

Due to the British colonialist efforts, including the USA, the German DNA is everywhere today, and it is related to genius and the potential for higher knowledge, as well as to the original 'Atlantean' (for lack of a better word) races who came from Hyperborea.

The war against the original germanic peoples was always a war against the remnants of a certain race, and as of today the dumbing down of the white population is the last phase of this war. If you have a thurst for truth and seek it, you probably have german DNA.

It took at least 4 wars to eliminate the german superiority and create a level playing field on the geostrategic chessboard: The Thirty-Years War, the Napoleonic Wars, as well as WW1 and WW2.

Churchill's hate against the genetic connection of Germania to the 'Gods' of the Hyperborean region resulted in the total destruction of Heligoland.

In 1928, Hitler and Goebbels visited Germany’s fragile northern border island. For the Nazis, its ruined fortifications stood for Germany’s lost global ambitions and its ignominious treatment by the allies. Himmler was obsessed with the idea it was the visible remains of an ''Aryan Atlantis’’, the birthplace of the German race. Heligoland became a military fortress again, in defiance.The vengeance meted out on it by the British in 1945 and 1947 was an attack on everything the island stood for: ''No more Heligolands’’, indeed.Himmler's 'Aryan Atlantis': the story of HeligolandWhile the Second World War was the final nail in the coffin for the factual superiority of Germany in science and technology, the war isn't over, as it isn't so much about fighting against a certain country, but fighting against people with some form of potential, and Nazism was designed to destroy Germany from within right from the beginning. The decision to attack Poland over the question of the Danzig corridor, and secondly, to retreat from Dünkirchen (Dunkirk), shows that it was always about escalation and then losing the war. Finally, a certain group used a certain spell to invert the death of millions in the fire-storms of 1943-1945 and create a guilt-complex in order for Germany never again to re-connect with it's lost history of old.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: MoriartyDate: 2020-02-24 23:15:00Reaction Score: 1




Cemen said:


> Are you serious?


Its certifiably true


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## Mabzynn (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: MabzynnDate: 2020-02-25 00:14:32Reaction Score: 6


I wonder why...



SOURCE - From a Charles Kos video - Charles Kos


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: StarmonkeyDate: 2020-02-25 00:46:08Reaction Score: 1


What do these peoples supposedly look like throughout the ages of their migrations and cross pollinations?


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Red BirdDate: 2020-02-25 01:39:16Reaction Score: 1


i haven’t read any discussion on the Stalin killng spree before and I believed it all..almost. 
there are some weird facts about Stalin himself, so why not?  Sigh. I hate to lose Solzhenitsyn. 
are Russians hesitant to bring this topic up?


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## EUAFU (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: EUAFUDate: 2020-02-25 03:53:36Reaction Score: 6




Cemen said:


> Are you serious?



According to the propaganda that people receive in the Americas, North, Central and South, the USSR exterminated the entire Russian population of the time about 2 or 3 times and then still killed all Ukrainians and made Georgians slaves.

There were more than 100 million in "official numbers" only .... hahaha

Just as Americans killed all Native Americans, all buffalo (to starve the natives) and went out into the world killing all peoples and sabotaging all industries, governments and killing all scientists who did not want to join the United States. And it promoted the rise of all Latin American dictators.

The world is made up of exaggerated propaganda on all sides. The worst thing is that advertising prevails because it is repeated throughout people's lives.

Now, strangely, the crimes of England are not heard all over the world.


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## JimDuyer (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Jim DuyerDate: 2020-02-25 14:31:59Reaction Score: 1




EUAFU said:


> According to the propaganda that people receive in the Americas, North, Central and South, the USSR exterminated the entire Russian population of the time about 2 or 3 times and then still killed all Ukrainians and made Georgians slaves.
> 
> There were more than 100 million in "official numbers" only .... hahaha
> 
> ...


But Russia would not have needed to kill 100 Million just to have killed more than Hitler - the numbers I have heard are around 20 million, which is still more, but not so high as to be ridiculous in a population of that size in that time period.  

And, by the way, if we go by percentages of population killed, rather than numbers, which are sort of like comparing current dollars to 1800s dollars, then hands down the Israelites under the Biblical leaders killed more than Hitler as well, in comparing the percentage killed verses number of people that populated the area.


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## EUAFU (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: EUAFUDate: 2020-02-26 04:12:28Reaction Score: 0




Jim Duyer said:


> But Russia would not have needed to kill 100 Million just to have killed more than Hitler - the numbers I have heard are around 20 million, which is still more, but not so high as to be ridiculous in a population of that size in that time period.
> 
> And, by the way, if we go by percentages of population killed, rather than numbers, which are sort of like comparing current dollars to 1800s dollars, then hands down the Israelites under the Biblical leaders killed more than Hitler as well, in comparing the percentage killed verses number of people that populated the area.



I talked about hype and advertising. That's what this is about. If we take the advertising figures seriously, Russia was exterminated and then it ended up with other countries. And who killed all those Russians in World War II? Was it the Italians or the Japanese? I think it was the Germans and even so the numbers were certainly largely inflated.


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## SuperTrouper (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: SuperTrouperDate: 2020-02-26 04:23:47Reaction Score: 1




dreamtime said:


> Everything surrounding Nazism and WW2 definitely was part of a secret war against Germany, but the war is still ongoing, and goes back many centuries. Tacitus' Germania is one of the earliest propaganda works used in the war against the Germans.
> 
> Until the Thirty-Years War the Netherlands were part of the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation (according to the offical narrative) and were then split off to make a buffer state to protect Great Britain.
> 
> ...


I find there to be an unproportionally high German presence in the spiritual "discourse". Some of the most amazing teachers are "German". To me, this is quite telling. The teaching is still there and growing, although the "nation" is being wiped out.


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## Cemen (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: CemenDate: 2020-02-26 10:20:55Reaction Score: 1




Red Bird said:


> i haven’t read any discussion on the Stalin killng spree before and I believed it all..almost.
> there are some weird facts about Stalin himself, so why not?  Sigh. I hate to lose Solzhenitsyn.
> are Russians hesitant to bring this topic up?


And who is solzhenitsyn? Why do you believe him so unconditionally?


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Red BirdDate: 2020-02-26 14:14:10Reaction Score: 0




Cemen said:


> And who is solzhenitsyn? Why do you believe him so unconditionally?


I know!  Another bites the dust perhaps, but I haven’t seen any info on him Is what I meant.


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## fabiorem (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: fabioremDate: 2020-03-04 15:14:57Reaction Score: 5


The prussian army of Chile:


"They still carried the imperial german eagle".
I can understand using the models from other army, but using its national symbol raised a question: was Chile party of Germany in the 19th century?


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## JimDuyer (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Jim DuyerDate: 2020-03-04 16:11:01Reaction Score: 1




fabiorem said:


> The prussian army of Chile:
> 
> 
> "They still carried the imperial german eagle".
> I can understand using the models from other army, but using its national symbol raised a question: was Chile party of Germany in the 19th century?


The Germans placed operatives and threw money around in both Chile and Argentina - just prior to the war. Their hope was to create a second front that would attack the USA from its southern flanks.  In order to counter this, the OSS, later known to us as the CIA, was formed, and the Rockefellers were placed in charge of the units that disrupted the German plans.


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## DanFromMN (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: DanfromMNDate: 2020-03-04 18:02:13Reaction Score: 2




Jim Duyer said:


> The Germans placed operatives and threw money around in both Chile and Argentina - just prior to the war. Their hope was to create a second front that would attack the USA from its southern flanks.  In order to counter this, the OSS, later known to us as the CIA, was formed, and the Rockefellers were placed in charge of the units that disrupted the German plans.


I call b.s.   why in the heck would Germany PLAN ON, LET ALONE WANT to have the United States in the fight?  

A ocean away from my war is where I'd want them if I were Mean Ol Mr Moustache.  

I'm probably wrong though.


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## JimDuyer (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Jim DuyerDate: 2020-03-04 21:53:29Reaction Score: 1




DanfromMN said:


> I call b.s.   why in the heck would Germany PLAN ON, LET ALONE WANT to have the United States in the fight?
> 
> A ocean away from my was is where I'd want them if I were Mean Ol Mr Moustache.
> 
> I'm probably wrong though.


Yes, you are, sorry to say, wrong.   They planned for contingencies - and they knew that if they could keep some of the natural resources of the South from us, that it would hinder our chances. Hitler did indeed count on it becoming a world-wide Reich, and thus a world-wide conflict, and thus he was expecting, though perhaps dreading, the US involvement in the war.  He hoped to have taken Russia before then, and believed in his mind that this would give him the power to fight off the USA.  But, historically speaking, every word of what I mentioned is documented fact.


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## DanFromMN (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: DanfromMNDate: 2020-03-04 23:34:12Reaction Score: 2




Jim Duyer said:


> Yes, you are, sorry to say, wrong.   They planned for contingencies - and they knew that if they could keep some of the natural resources of the South from us, that it would hinder our chances. Hitler did indeed count on it becoming a world-wide Reich, and thus a world-wide conflict, and thus he was expecting, though perhaps dreading, the US involvement in the war.  He hoped to have taken Russia before then, and believed in his mind that this would give him the power to fight off the USA.  But, historically speaking, every word of what I mentioned is documented fact.


Hitler told you this personally?  Short of that, I don't buy it.


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## fabiorem (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: fabioremDate: 2020-03-05 00:23:17Reaction Score: 1




Jim Duyer said:


> The Germans placed operatives and threw money around in both Chile and Argentina - just prior to the war. Their hope was to create a second front that would attack the USA from its southern flanks.  In order to counter this, the OSS, later known to us as the CIA, was formed, and the Rockefellers were placed in charge of the units that disrupted the German plans.



According to the video, the tradition started during the times of Bismarck, way before world war 2.


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## dreamtime (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: dreamtimeDate: 2020-03-05 09:12:17Reaction Score: 13


If we want to understand the significance of the second world war, we need to go back in time. In light of the focus of this forum it would be interesting to connect the recent history of Germany with the events that happened before the 20th Century. 

Here's a post of mine that may be relevant to this discussion:



> I'm starting to think there's some secret in the German history, when it comes to the time period between 1500 and 1800.
> 
> Was the conflicts that lead to the first world war related to invisible forces dividing the germans? How big was the german territory in 1600, and were people somehow politically united in the german-speaking areas? How old was the German Empire really?
> 
> ...


_Reich and Empire: the origins and true meaning_


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## codis (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: codisDate: 2020-03-05 10:01:38Reaction Score: 1




> I'm starting to think there's some secret in the German history, when it comes to the time period between 1500 and 1800.
> 
> Was the conflicts that lead to the first world war related to invisible forces dividing the germans? How big was the german territory in 1600, and were people somehow politically united in the german-speaking areas? How old was the German Empire really?


This would definitely include the 30-year's war, and the purported schism between Catholicism and Protestantism.


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## Borec (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: BorecDate: 2020-03-05 12:40:42Reaction Score: 1




Cemen said:


> Are you serious?


Many people know nothing about the real history and even ,,recent´´ WW2... Everything (including educational system) is under control of manipulators. Nothing against the common people of Germany but Hitler´s regime has been supported from the same hidden stage as they wanted to destroy the all nations at the territory of middle and east Europe at that time with the hands of Germans etc... ,,Drank nach Osten´´ was the topic of this plan.


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## JimDuyer (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Jim DuyerDate: 2020-03-05 15:15:01Reaction Score: 3




DanfromMN said:


> Hitler told you this personally?  Short of that, I don't buy it.


*Office of the Coordinator of Inter-American Affairs - Wikipedia*
is a good read to start with. Then connect the dots by researching the formation of
the OSS, and the rich people from Yale who populated it, and then read some history
on the second world war in South America.


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## dreamtime (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: dreamtimeDate: 2020-03-06 08:55:11Reaction Score: 7




codis said:


> This would definitely include the 30-year's war, and the purported schism between Catholicism and Protestantism.


Yes, and I think it's the biggest mystery. In the 18th Century, Goethe and Schiller still discussed and tried to understand the 30-Years war, because no one really knew what happened 150 years before. Before Napoleon, the 30-years war was probably the most important event for Germany and Central Europe. Although I don't understand how the 30-years war was still relevant in 1790, when Friedrich Schiller published his book, one of the standard references today. His work was the first historic analysis of an event that was already 150 years in the past. Imagine someone would write the first historic book on Napoleon or the Unification of Germany today, how accurate could it be?

The 30-years war split Germans between north and south, and most people in the south died, or at least this is what we are being told.


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## codis (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: codisDate: 2020-03-06 09:53:39Reaction Score: 3




dreamtime said:


> The 30-years war split German between north and south, and most people in the south died, or at least this is what we are being told.


Besides official high-level accounts (think of the Prague defenestration, Wallenstein, or Gustav Adolph), there are many accounts in local church registers. I have seem a few transcripts from South Saxonian villages - not the handwritten originals, to be honest. They report of substantial number so residents killed by regular imperial troups and Swedes, marauding soldiers, and famines & epidemics caused by the disruption of agriculture and pillage of reserves, tools and work animals.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: ObertrynDate: 2020-03-07 12:22:38Reaction Score: 6




dreamtime said:


> Yes, and I think it's the biggest mystery. In the 18th Century, Goethe and Schiller still discussed and tried to understand the 30-Years war, because no one really knew what happened 150 years before. Before Napoleon, the 30-years war was probably the most important event for Germany and Central Europe. Although I don't understand how the 30-years war was still relevant in 1790, when Friedrich Schiller published his book, one of the standard references today. His work was the first historic analysis of an event that was already 150 years in the past. Imagine someone would write the first historic book on Napoleon or the Unification of Germany today, how accurate could it be?
> 
> The 30-years war split Germans between north and south, and most people in the south died, or at least this is what we are being told.


Funny, history really IS cyclical!

Holy GermanRoman Empire -> Thirty Years' War -> Broken Germany -> Prussia/Austria Rebuilding -> Napoleon -> German Reunification -> World War 1 -> We're Not Dead Yet, Arschlöcher! -> World War 2 -> We America's Bitch Now -> The Rise of Nationalism (debatable if it's genuine or astroturfed in this age of deception, but...) -> World War 3...???

Seeing a pattern?


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: StarmonkeyDate: 2020-03-07 14:24:31Reaction Score: 1


The old "Gothic" (how Faustian) cathedrals created by?... Wait for it, wait for it... The GERMANS!
Although they also remind me of spacious Viking or Norman halls.
Shapeshifters. Flag changers. Infiltrators.
Since the last big FULL "reset" of "Atlantis" or whatever, lost ancient civilizations and culture and languages, I don't think anyone has disappeared like that again. Just migrated, mingled and adapted.
Wonder how WW3 could at all be aimed at Germany though, unless it's the Bilderburgers.
Builder burghers?


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## wild heretic (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: wild hereticDate: 2020-03-07 19:46:56Reaction Score: 6




Obertryn said:


> Funny, history really IS cyclical!
> 
> Holy GermanRoman Empire -> Thirty Years' War -> Broken Germany -> Prussia/Austria Rebuilding -> Napoleon -> German Reunification -> World War 1 -> We're Not Dead Yet, Arschlöcher! -> World War 2 -> We America's Bitch Now -> The Rise of Nationalism (debatable if it's genuine or astroturfed in this age of deception, but...) -> World War 3...???
> 
> Seeing a pattern?


Been writing about this recently. I think america is next for a break up repeating the break up of the roman empire into holy roman empire of the german nation and the old rome (rome and france). Sadly the old american empire will continue to attack the new holy american empire (lol) over the next few centuries just like history until it is thoroughly broken and its people demoralised and greatly diminished, in order to make way for the new world order centered in jerusalem.

Not coincidentally the new holy amencan empire will hold majority ethnically white people of european germanic nation ancestory. The old american empire not so much.


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## dreamtime (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: dreamtimeDate: 2020-03-07 21:09:19Reaction Score: 14




codis said:


> Besides official high-level accounts (think of the Prague defenestration, Wallenstein, or Gustav Adolph), there are many accounts in local church registers. I have seem a few transcripts from South Saxonian villages - not the handwritten originals, to be honest. They report of substantial number so residents killed by regular imperial troups and Swedes, marauding soldiers, and famines & epidemics caused by the disruption of agriculture and pillage of reserves, tools and work animals.


I doubt we know anything about the thirty-years war, except that something happened which was later created into the concept of this war.

Modern historians are already questioning the 'early' accounts of Schiller or Grimmelshausen. Especially what Grimmelshausen writes is so inconsistent and absurd, that even modern historians are embarrassed. Actually, no one knows if Grimmelshausen really took part in the war, or just heard accounts from others. His book wasn't even a serious attempt at history, it was just a cheap novelette and historians simply assumed its autobiographic nature without any evidence at all. Schiller's writings, for example his account of the destruction of Magdgeburg, are very dubious as well.

The number of dead people should ring alarm bells. What would this supposedly thirty-year long bloody conflict tell us about human nature? Between five and eight million people lost their lives, over half of the houses and buildings were destroyed, and large parts of Central Europe were devastated.


Contemporaries interpreted the war as God's punishment. In late autumn 1618 a huge comet stood in the evening sky. God had announced that he would punish humanity for their many sins. The war in Bohemia had begun, the climatic change of the Little Ice Age led to repeated famine crises since 1560, and a hyperinflation began around 1620. The simultaneity of war, dearth, disease and death referred to the Revelation of John: The horsemen of the Apocalypse got released, the Last Judgement and the end of the world could hardly be stopped. (Deutungen des Dreißigjährigen Krieges.  Mythos, Legenden und Einsichten | APuZ)

Schiller and Goethe were both liars for the powers that be back then, and Goethe admitted to his censorship. Their goal was to reduce the Thirty-Years war to politics.

Goethe was not only writing books but also was one of the most influental political figures, writing many laws himself. Both Schiller and Goethe were hired to construct the history of the thirty-years war in the first place. Their writing style is prosaic, but they were not true historians. The people who paid them needed a convincing narrative, and while I do not know that much about Schiller I know that the historical writings by Goethe are purely commissioned works, which became clear to me when I read his report about the siege of Mainz. In a letter to a friend, he told him that he isn't allowed to talk about the important aspects of the siege, and he implied that most of what he wrote was actually fiction. This is supported by the fact that he wrote about the siege decades after it had already happened, and yes, someone paid for it to be written.

Furthermore, the few first-hand reports about the thirty-years war that we have do not even mention religion. It was something else.

But Schiller didn't accept any uncertainty, so the first sentence in his book reads: "From the beginning of the religious war in Germany until the Peace of Münster, hardly anything great or strange has happened in the political world of Europe that isn't connected to the Reformation."

There we have everything that still forms the foundation for the narrative today - Religion, Politics, Reformation.

The available evidence should have lead historians to conclude that we know almost nothing, the first-hand reports imply something different than a traditional war.

Geoffrey Mortimer, in his book 'Eyewitness accounts of the Thirty Years War', tries to get to the bottom of the primary evidence.

Quote: "Personally attested reports of the more extreme suffering which forms the essence of the popular image of the war are rare in the accounts studied. The typical pattern which emerges from the specific events reported from personal knowledge or experience is one of plundering raids and robberies, more or less frequent from place to place, punctuated by a relatively small number of more violent incidents, and set against a background of frequent shortages of food which occasionally developed into periods of real but localized famine. There is also a widespread discrepancy between the nature and level of specifically reported experiences and the more generalized descriptions of events and conditions at large given by many of the writers, the portrayals tending to become more terrible the further they move away from the author’s direct observation."

A worthwhile interpretation would start with taking the fear of people awaiting the judgement of god seriously, which means we need to think in terms of cataclysm, floods, earthquakes, and subsequent robberies, raids, and political power struggles. What has survived in our history is only the last, and most insignificant part: the political power struggles.


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## fabiorem (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: fabioremDate: 2020-03-07 22:44:25Reaction Score: 0




wild heretic said:


> Been writing about this recently. I think america is next for a break up repeating the break up of the roman empire into holy roman empire of the german nation and the old rome (rome and france). Sadly the old american empire will continue to attack the new holy american empire (lol) over the next few centuries just like history until it is thoroughly broken and its people demoralised and greatly diminished, in order to make way for the new world order centered in jerusalem.
> 
> Not coincidentally the new holy amencan empire will hold majority ethnically white people of european germanic nation ancestory. The old american empire not so much.



Implying those repetitions are true, and not forgeries.
Fomenko pointed too many coincidences.
Just look at this: http://chronologia.org/en/seven/2N01-EN.pdf

Who is going to refute him? 
I'm not doubting the romans existed. They certainly did, but not the way its told in history books.


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## wild heretic (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: wild hereticDate: 2020-03-09 00:36:11Reaction Score: 1




fabiorem said:


> Implying those repetitions are true, and not forgeries.
> Fomenko pointed too many coincidences.
> Just look at this: http://chronologia.org/en/seven/2N01-EN.pdf
> 
> ...


I just found out recently that in the middle ages the holy roman empire used to be called the roman empire until 1157ad i think. And thats mainstream chronology. So just imagine if it is revised. The roman empire could be anytime. I think i remember the addition " of the german nation" occurred around 1500ad according to mainstream. Pretty wild, but the truth lies in there somewhere. Who knows when the roman empire broke apart.

I have a sneaking suspicion that it was the emergence of the nazarene king in the middle ages which created the split, hence the addition of the name "holy". The old rome together with the jews and elite pagans have hated the christed nazarene king ever since then and wanted his cult destroyed imo. hence the destruction of the double eagle nations who worshipped jesus.

That idea makes sense to me anyhow.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Shikari28Date: 2020-03-09 01:58:43Reaction Score: 0


Johnathan Machtemes is reading "The Myth of German Villainy" by Brenton L Bradberry. The cognitive dissonance is relentless.


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## codis (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: codisDate: 2020-03-09 06:48:44Reaction Score: 2




dreamtime said:


> Modern historians are already questioning the 'early' accounts of Schiller or Grimmelshausen. Especially what Grimmelshausen writes is so inconsistent and absurd, that even modern historians are embarrassed. Actually, no one knows if Grimmelshausen really took part in the war, or just heard accounts from others. His book wasn't even a serious attempt at history, it was just a cheap novelette and historians simply assumed its autobiographic nature without any evidence at all.


I had read his "Simplicissimus" some years ago, at least parts. But I stopped because it bored my to death.
First, it could been describing any war at that time in Europe.
And second, I might remind on another very successful German author - Karl May. I think I don't need to explain that...


dreamtime said:


> Schiller and Goethe were both liars for the powers that be back then, and Goethe admitted to his censorship. Their goal was to reduce the Thirty-Years war to politics.
> 
> Goethe was not only writing books but also was one of the most influental political figures, writing many laws himself. Both Schiller and Goethe were hired to construct the history of the thirty-years war in the first place.


Not sure about the  history-construction part, but they were definitely "hired guns", i.e. in service of a local ruler. Like journalists or climate-change-consenting "scientists" of today, dependant on their income and favor of their masters.
I think it doesn't take much of a genius to see the masonic motives shining through in the renowned "Faust".


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## Whitewave (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: whitewaveDate: 2020-03-09 08:40:01Reaction Score: 1




wild heretic said:


> Been writing about this recently. I think america is next for a break up repeating the break up of the roman empire into holy roman empire of the german nation and the old rome (rome and france). Sadly the old american empire will continue to attack the new holy american empire (lol) over the next few centuries just like history until it is thoroughly broken and its people demoralised and greatly diminished, in order to make way for the new world order centered in jerusalem.
> 
> Not coincidentally the new holy amencan empire will hold majority ethnically white people of european germanic nation ancestory. The old american empire not so much.


Do you have a source for this or is it just speculation? How did you arrive at these conclusions?


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## dreamtime (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: dreamtimeDate: 2020-03-09 10:41:36Reaction Score: 9




Shikari28 said:


> Johnathan Machtemes is reading "The Myth of German Villainy" by Brenton L Bradberry. The cognitive dissonance is relentless.


Relevant quote from the first chapter:
The image of Germany as a sinister, predatory, warlike nation only took root in the twentieth century. Nineteenth century Germany, by contrast, was seen as a place of peace and enlightenment. The English historian, Frederic William Maitland, described the way the English people saw the Germans during the nineteenth century: “…it was usual and plausible to paint the German as an unpractical, dreamy, sentimental being, looking out with mild blue eyes into a cloud of music and metaphysics and tobacco smoke.”The highly influential French writer and Salon matron, Madame de Stael, portrayed the Germans during the period of the Napoleonic Wars as a nation of “poets and thinkers, a race of kindly, impractical, other-worldly dreamers without national prejudices and disinclined to war.” The Americans also held a benign opinion of the Germans prior to the twentieth century. The American historian, Henry Cord Meyer, wrote,“…whether seen in their newly united nation [Germany was united into one nation in 1871] or in this country [German immigrants in the United States], the Germans were generally regarded as methodical and energetic people who were models of progress, while in their devotion to music, education, science, and technology they aroused the admiration and emulation of Americans.”In 1905 Andrew Dickson White, a noted American historian, educator, and United States Ambassador to Germany, wrote just nine years before the outbreak of World War I: “Germany, from a great confused mass of warriors and thinkers and workers, militant at cross-purposes, wearing themselves out in vain struggles, and preyed upon by malevolent neighbors, has become [after consolidation] a great power in arms, in art, in science, in literature; a fortress of high thought; a guardian of civilization; the natural ally of every nation which seeks the better development of humanity.” The German people have historically made great contributions in every sphere of cultural, intellectual, and scientific achievement. In the field of music, there were such eighteenth century geniuses as Bach, Hayden, Mozart, Beethoven, Shubert and Schuman, to name a few. This musical genius continued in the nineteenth century with the Strausses, Mahler and Richard Wagner.There were the literary contributions of Goethe and Schiller; the historical works of Ranke and Niebuhr; the philosophical studies of Kant and Hegel; and the great scientific contributions of Alexander von Humboldt and William Conrad Roentgen. These are only a few examples of a very long list. The Prussian system of higher education and the cultural flowering which characterized Prussia during the years following the Napoleonic wars greatly influenced both Europe and America.The American public school system as well as our university system was deliberately modeled after the Prussian public school system and university system. Germany was admired by the world as a center of learning, for its high culture and for its achievements in every field; but also for its culture of honesty, hard work, orderliness and thrift, which existed even at the lowest level of society. British scholars and journalists had been very favorably disposed toward all things German, including their history, culture, and institutions throughout the nineteenth century. The highly respected Cambridge historian Herbert Butterfield commented extensively on Britain’s high regard for Germany. “In England the view once prevailed that German history was particularly the history of freedom, for it was a story that comprised federation, parliament, autonomous cities, Protestantism, and a law of liberty carried by German colonies to the Slavonic east.In those days it was the Latin States which were considered to be congenial to authoritarianism, clinging to the Papacy in Italy, the Inquisition in Spain and the Bonapartist dictatorships in militaristic France. The reversal of this view in the twentieth century, and its replacement by a common opinion that Germany had been the aggressor and enemy of freedom throughout all the ages, will no doubt be the subject of historical research itself someday, especially as it seems to have coincided so closely with a change in British foreign policy …Up to the early 1900’s when historical scholarship in England came to its peak in men like Acton and Maitland, words can hardly describe the admiration for Germany — and the confessed discipleship — which existed amongst English historians.” And then British author Thomas Arnold (June 13, 1795 - June 12, 1842) saw Germany not as a nation with a unique predisposition toward authoritarianism and regimentation, but rather as a “cradle of law, virtue, and freedom,” and considered it a “distinction of the first rank” that the English belonged to the Germanic family of peoples.


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## wild heretic (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: wild hereticDate: 2020-03-09 10:51:00Reaction Score: 5




whitewave said:


> Do you have a source for this or is it just speculation? How did you arrive at these conclusions?


Which part? The Breaking up of America is in the future so I have no source for that, even prophetic ones. It's an opinion of mine at the moment after what I had learnt about the Holy Roman Empire. Of course, if the Roman Empire fractured due to Jesus, then maybe the USA won't fracture unless there is a second coming.

What I do know is that the USA was definitely formed as the Roman Republic of the New World (I have links to that somewhere). This in my opinion was a good thing (relatively speaking). It seems to me to have been subverted in the 19th century at some time by, dare I say it, Satanic forces (my speculation).

Wait, I had a link to the Bolshevism of America somewhere. That sounds related. Got it. It's politically charged so might be best not to post it here as I don't want Korben to get into trouble. He can delete it if he wants.


Here is a good very long older video on Satantic forces in America.


On a side note, at least I know the the purpose and foundation for the CIA and ONI now. All thanks to studying the Patriotic war, which led to the Holy Roman Empire destruction, the creation of illuminated Freemasonry and the Jesuits (who are anti-christian in reality).

The real political (power) truth is often horrible and dangerous. This is why I am hesitant to post stuff like that here.


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## codis (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: codisDate: 2020-03-09 12:16:43Reaction Score: 1




dreamtime said:


> n those days it was the Latin States which were considered to be congenial to authoritarianism, clinging to the Papacy in Italy, the Inquisition in Spain and the Bonapartist dictatorships in militaristic France. The reversal of this view in the twentieth century, and its replacement by a common opinion that Germany had been the aggressor and enemy of freedom throughout all the ages, will no doubt be the subject of historical research itself someday, especially as it seems to have coincided so closely with a change in British foreign policy …


Once Germany was united, it strived to get it's equal share in spheres of influence, which were colonies at that time. The industriousness and economic success was already viewed with suspicion in the anglo-saxon sphere, when measures like the "Made in Germany" label requirement proved less then successful.
A few pointless territories (think German Southwest Africa) were tolerated, but when Germany started to make treaties with (supposed) British puppet regimes, it was enough. Remember, the famous Baghdad express railway started in Berlin (Berlin-Baghdad Express). The German empire had made deals with the Ottomans to drill for oil near the railway, to supply it's vast and growing industrial engine. That could not be allowed to happen.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: ObertrynDate: 2020-03-09 14:06:58Reaction Score: 1


Germany may have been vilified to a ridiculous extent but it's odd just how far they went to reinforce that image.

World War I - Germany is practically salivating at the thought of getting to bash France and Russia's skulls in, having made extensive war plans beforehand, decides to launch preliminary offensives before Austria-Hungary or any other combatant was even ready, decides to smash their way through Belgium despite being warned by Britain against it, invents weapons such as serrated bayonets so wounds won't close, mustard gas to violently kill everything in sight, flamethrowers to barbecue people like a summer lamb, sets up electric fences to stop Belgians from escaping to the Netherlands, brutalizes Belgian civilians so harshly they call it "the rape of Belgium", declared unrestricted submarine warfare, including hitting non-combatant ships such American vessels, was the first nation in history to carry out a terrorist attack on US soil with the "Black Tom" explosions via sabotage, pioneers bombing raids via zeppelins and long-range artillery to terrorize civilian populations in enemy territory and tries to secure a contract with Mexico (and other South/Central American nations) to kick the shit out of the USA via the Zimmerman telegram.

They literally did everything possible to kill any semblance of sympathy they may have had from foreign observers of the conflict. Why? Did they fall into the "USA! USA! USA!" trap where they assumed that because they had the most badass army in Europe at the time, they were invincible? Is the United States of America heading towards the same trap?


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## Bunnyman (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: BunnymanDate: 2020-03-09 14:29:53Reaction Score: 2




> Did they fall into the "USA! USA! USA!" trap


Yes I think many are blinded through their infection with patriotism in many forms. But we have to be mindful when speaking about "countries" and the actions attributed to these "entities" as if these really are "entities". Any spirit attributed to a "country" and any sizable group of designated individuals as inventory of such, may easily distort truth and seemingly has done so and is doing just that and as such is a "force or spirit" in-it-selves. A negative one in my books.


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## wild heretic (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: wild hereticDate: 2020-03-09 15:02:48Reaction Score: 1


Speaking of vilification, I'm just finding out that the Spanish Inquisition may have been a very positive thing (not kidding). Early days yet.


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## Whitewave (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: whitewaveDate: 2020-03-09 15:35:08Reaction Score: 1


_@wild heretic_, In asking for sources, I was referring to this bit: "Not coincidentally the new holy american empire will hold majority ethnically white people of european germanic nation ancestory. The old american empire not so much." 
Can't wait to hear how the Inquisition was a good thing. The mother of all spins. Keep us posted.


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## wild heretic (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: wild hereticDate: 2020-03-09 23:38:19Reaction Score: 1




whitewave said:


> _@wild heretic_, In asking for sources, I was referring to this bit: "Not coincidentally the new holy american empire will hold majority ethnically white people of european germanic nation ancestory. The old american empire not so much."
> Can't wait to hear how the Inquisition was a good thing. The mother of all spins. Keep us posted.


I based that opinion on back of the envelope reasoning as to how the us would break up in terms of regions. Obviously commiefornia would be seperate lol. I was thinking south coast from texas to florida would break away. Demograpically they are heading to majority hispanic if they arent already. Not sure about the east coat. Chicago and the detroit etc is renown for its black population i think. So i was thinking the middle to northern states will be the last of the white christian conglomerate to be under attack by the nwo sneaks and thieves. Surrounded by design. Toronto is brown and becoming muslim now so that seals off a northern route.

I like to look at immigration and fake asylum centers in terms of military strategy and war. Im looking for patterns of surrounding the enemy, aka white christian people. I heard they want a huge center in wales uk. I was thinking this is to hem in the remaining natives in the decades ahead for elimination.

Sadly i now now who and what we are up against. An evil so pervasive and ever constant and determined there sadly can only be one conclusion in the future eventually. Unless the grace of god gives part of himself to these evil ones, there is only one eventual outcome at some stage in the future. The holy roman empire has taught me that these people dont stop after centuries and centuries of subverting, infiltrating, wearing down and genociding. I suppose the second coming is inevitable so another thousand year cycle can commence again.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: PairAllelesDate: 2020-03-10 02:40:08Reaction Score: 2




wild heretic said:


> Here is a good very long older video on Satantic forces in America.


can one step back and look at who was called Satan in Gethsemane ... that was Peter? replete with cocks crowing and hearing challenged sans ear. the corner stone (pig pidgin has s = secret moved to the end of the base word of tone, so hidden tones) of the kirk. sounds a bit like a skware and a basal-ka (base = lower-ka = spirit) should be named for a location to be found-dead later. Peter was the actor for ruling the age of Jupiter in Pisces, the world age of water ... and Jupiter rules the waist - waste, expansion - empire, desire - lust.

it is all in the stars ... each sol here is a star (or stone). mystery is a word that comes from Mushtari which is Jupiter in another tongue ... and the Masonic - not free - guilds, or mystery schools, were supposed to be teaching wisdom, one for each house of the zodiac. and this may still be true over the next few thousand years as they were founded in the world age of earth (builders) in Taurus. it is one of the reasons that 12 years (one for each zodiac constellation) were spent in Egypt by the icon for Aquarius, when he returned he was called master, rabbi, teacher.

but today, first there would need to be a house cleaning as all hmm ... recognized institutions have been infiltrated by je suit agents pour le temps


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: permindexDate: 2020-05-02 08:12:12Reaction Score: 7




dreamtime said:


> Everything surrounding Nazism and WW2 definitely was part of a secret war against Germany, but the war is still ongoing, and goes back many centuries. Tacitus' Germania is one of the earliest propaganda works used in the war against the Germans.
> 
> Until the Thirty-Years War the Netherlands were part of the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation (according to the offical narrative) and were then split off to make a buffer state to protect Great Britain.
> 
> ...


Keeping in mind Fomenko et al.'s assertion that the original Roman Empire was artifically backdated by establishment historians, when it was actually sometime much later, in the middle ages (if one from Rome, Italy did indeed exist), I have been wondering the following. I also have been noticing the glaring importance of the history of Germany, and also the obsessive desire by the powers-that-be to completely destroy it.

If the official history of the Holy Roman Empire is incorrect, how wrong could it be? Could the extent of the Empire have been diminished?

Could the German Empire have been the center (and therefore the most resistant to takeover) of an ancient world-wide Roman Empire?

Could this original Roman Empire have included what became known as Tartaria?

Could this Empire have included the Byzantine Roman Empire, which according to the Arabs, was known as Ar-Rum (Rome)?

Was the sign of the eagle predominantly a sign of the German Empire? Could it have reached as far as Mexico where we have depictions of Montezuma wearing a double-headed eagle emblem on his hat, and a double-headed eagle on maps of Tenochtitlan?

I have been thinking the "barbarian" Germanic tribes were not at all barbaric and perhaps even built many of the structures we still see today. 

Maybe Gothic architecture really is Gothic architecture.


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## dreamtime (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: dreamtimeDate: 2020-05-03 16:39:42Reaction Score: 8


A follow-up from my post from a different thread: _The Hanseatic League - who were they really?_



> And indeed the northern German cities suffered the most in WW2, with Bremerhaven on top of the list, as 97% of the entire city got destroyed by bombs. Hamburg succumbed into a fire as well following the bombing which was tellingly named Operation Gomorrah (occult Hebrew reference). I wonder if there was a more secret reason for focusing on the northern cities.
> 
> Possibly related is the bombing of the northern island of Heligoland (surprisingly 2 years after the war had already ended) as well as the cession of north eastern territory (Danzig, Königsberg, Eastern Prussia) with connections to the Hanse. By the way basically all big german cities originally had star forts around them.
> 
> ...


I found more evidence that the eastern-european areas were originally german, and only later the slavs got in and intermingled with the germans.

In 1928, a german teacher published research about german family names (Deutsche Familiennamen polnischer Sprachform, Archiv für Sippenforschung) and showed that most Polish family names were actually german names before the slavs gained control of the territories.

Quote:_ "The municipality of Schönwald in Upper Silesia, which has been purely German for centuries up to the present day, has, for example, mostly Polish surnames. If you now look up individual names in the church records, the name STROCHOLKA, for example, changes into STROCHOLMKA and finally STROHHALM; a single priest who was Polish-minded or educated could have turned an entire village in this way into Slavs - purely outwardly. If these examples are not enough for you, we should mention the new work of the Polish ethnographer Professor Jan Bystron on Polish names, especially the chapters on German names in Poland and on the polonization of German names. Even German noblemen who settled in Poland often allowed their names to be changed."_
The Hussite Wars as well as the reformation apparently led to this process.


permindex said:


> I have been thinking the "barbarian" Germanic tribes were not at all barbaric and perhaps even built many of the structures we still see today.


Germany was glorious before the destruction. The same architecture as everywhere else before the reset. And Germany always was exceptionally peaceful, and a center of knowledge and culture. Although there was also a dark side to the German ideals of following orders - authoritarianism, and it was this authoritarianism that broke us.

There never were 'tribes' in the way as protrayed by historians. In the pre-reset world a tribe was a large group of people united by their history and common ancestors.

By the way, look at the first image below, from 1857. Do these people with horses look like they built the surrounding structures? In the second one they are 'building' (repairing actually) the dome, ca 1905. Also funny illustration in #3 of how we are led to believe the structures were built in 1735.

     


permindex said:


> Keeping in mind Fomenko et al.'s assertion that the original Roman Empire was artifically backdated by establishment historians, when it was actually sometime much later, in the middle ages (if one from Rome, Italy did indeed exist), I have been wondering the following. I also have been noticing the glaring importance of the history of Germany, and also the obsessive desire by the powers-that-be to completely destroy it.
> 
> If the official history of the Holy Roman Empire is incorrect, how wrong could it be? Could the extent of the Empire have been diminished?
> 
> ...


Have you seen this post? _Reich and Empire: the origins and true meaning_

I wonder whether the following quote by Voltaire has a deeper meaning: _"This body which called itself and which still calls itself the Holy Roman Empire was in no way holy, nor Roman, nor an empire."_ - Voiltaire, 1756



> "The culture was far more Germanic than it was Roman as by that point the Austrian-born Hapsburg line had a keystone degree of power by his day and they had long since lost much of Italy though the death of Charles II of Spain and the Spanish line. In the north you had Prussia; the nation that was more of an army with a country than the other way around.
> (...)
> In the 18th century the HRE was very much in its twilight years. This was the century marked by the kingdom of Prussia gaining prominence as a military monarchy so extensive that it led to the joke _"some countries possess armies, but Prussia is an army that happens to possess a country.” _The HRE as a whole had been this way even before the Thirty Years’ War in 1648, it had been ailing for about a century but by the war’s end it found itself in a terminal condition that would last about 150 years.
> (...)
> ...


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: StarmonkeyDate: 2020-05-03 19:36:08Reaction Score: 0


Teutons. Like soggy croutons.
Seem to think the Vikings, Normans or Kievan Tus were their heritage. Just like Greece and Rome. Everybody wants to hearken back to BIG boy pants.
So, THEY claim such, Rome claims such, even though they're just the pimps and pushers behind the STURCH.
The word "Thule" reeks of immensity. Power. And sea monsters. Like Cthulu.
RUS not Tus. F**king spell meddler


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## codis (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: codisDate: 2020-05-04 06:45:55Reaction Score: 5




dreamtime said:


> I found more evidence that the eastern-european areas were originally german, and only later the slavs got in and intermingled with the germans.


I am about to do some research giving a slightly different picture. Or, at least not quite matching with this one.
Look at Eastern Germany, from Rostock through Berlin down to Leipzig and Chemnitz. Most city names have slavic origns. A point popular science does not explain. Wikepedia (admittedly not a point of reference ;-)) does not even try.


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## dreamtime (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: dreamtimeDate: 2020-05-04 08:06:40Reaction Score: 1




codis said:


> I am about to do some research giving a slightly different picture. Or, at least not quite matching with this one.
> Look at Eastern Germany, from Rostock through Berlin down to Leipzig and Chemnitz. Most city names have slavic origns. A point popular science does not explain. Wikepedia (admittedly not a point of reference ;-)) does not even try.


This is quite interesting.


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## SuperTrouper (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: SuperTrouperDate: 2020-05-04 08:20:05Reaction Score: 2




wild heretic said:


> Which part? The Breaking up of America is in the future so I have no source for that, even prophetic ones. It's an opinion of mine at the moment after what I had learnt about the Holy Roman Empire. Of course, if the Roman Empire fractured due to Jesus, then maybe the USA won't fracture unless there is a second coming.


This? The Last President ** Travels And Adventures Of Little Baron Trump ** Baron Trumps’ Marvellous Underground Journey: INGERSOLL LOCKWOOD COLLECTION (ALPHA CENTAURI FICTION Book 26101) eBook:  LOCKWOOD , INGERSOLL: Amazon.com.au: Kindle Store


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## asatiger1966 (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: asatiger1966Date: 2020-05-04 08:26:25Reaction Score: 3




whitewave said:


> Do you have a source for this or is it just speculation? How did you arrive at these conclusions?


Seems that everybody is in on the joke except for the citizens "slaves?"

Good news you and I will be together LOL
I had posted a Navy map to PrincepAugus sometime back showing his living space under water in the upcoming reset LOL. Maybe this will make him feel better LOL.


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## codis (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: codisDate: 2020-05-04 08:37:56Reaction Score: 2




dreamtime said:


> This is quite interesting.


A sneak peak of Wiki-truth , selecting the city of Zwickau , because of the "strange" name:
_- first mentioned 1118
- up to 7.th century AD inhabited by Suebes and Thuringians
- from 7.th century on Sorbs
- occupation by Heinrich I. in 10.th century, with Cristianisation and influx of german settlers
- name probably derives from svarozic, slavic god of sun and fire (related to large black coal deposits around the city)_
So, slavic sorbs had full-fledged, large cities when Heinrich arrrived ?
And gradually welcomed German settlers ?

Here some not-so-imaginative city names of settlements in the US, one might guess how the founders arrived there:
- Berlin (New Hampshire)
- Dresden (Ohio & Tennesee)
- Birmingham (Alabama)
- Moscow (Idaho)
- London (Ohio & Kentucky)
- Amsterdam (Manhattan)
- Brussels (Wisconsin)
- Warsaw (Indiana)
- "New" York


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## asatiger1966 (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: asatiger1966Date: 2020-05-04 08:38:03Reaction Score: 9




permindex said:


> Keeping in mind Fomenko et al.'s assertion that the original Roman Empire was artifically backdated by establishment historians, when it was actually sometime much later, in the middle ages (if one from Rome, Italy did indeed exist), I have been wondering the following. I also have been noticing the glaring importance of the history of Germany, and also the obsessive desire by the powers-that-be to completely destroy it.
> 
> If the official history of the Holy Roman Empire is incorrect, how wrong could it be? Could the extent of the Empire have been diminished?
> 
> ...


you said : Could this Empire have included the Byzantine Roman Empire, which according to the Arabs, was known as Ar-Rum (Rome)?

The Byzantine Empire lasted about 1,300 hundred years. It is written in many places that they did so "because they had laws forbidding  the so called "Jews" from participating in , banking, schools and holding office of any kind.
If true, and I think so, this would start a blood feud.


dreamtime said:


> A follow-up from my post from a different thread: _The Hanseatic League - who were they really?_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There is a theory out there, that thinks the Reformation is upside down. The original Christians were the Protestants and the reformers were the Catholic Church. So you would have the peaceful Christians being wiped out by the evil Catholics. The Catholics would then claim to follow Jesus but in reality they killed all of the Christ believers? Note: I think at least three of the first five "Popes" were "Jews"

Who benefits ?


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## Felix Noille (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: FelixnoilleDate: 2020-05-04 13:52:34Reaction Score: 9




asatiger1966 said:


> Note: I think at least three of the first five "Popes" were "Jews"


Personally I believe that when you get to the level of Pope, the labels "Catholic", "Christian", "Jew" etc., don't have any relevance. At that level you know how meaningless they are, or rather that they are all fundamentally the same thing.
_____________________________________________________________

Mr. Wickham Steed [Member of the 1918 Austro-Hungarian Section of the Advisory Committee to the Department of (anti-German) Propaganda in Enemy Countries and Foreign Editor and later Editor-in-Chief of the London Times] presented the following theories regarding the Jewish affection for Germany:

"The [first] theory... was in fact advanced to him by a learned Austrian Hebrew in order to explain the "pro-German tendencies displayed by the Ashkenazim Jews the world over." "German," he quotes this pundit as saying, "is the basis of our jargon, and next to Palestine, Germany is the country which we regard as our home. Hence our sentimental leaning towards Germany.

"[2nd theory:] Since 1870, the Jews have believed Germany to be the rising power and have consequently striven to 'back the winner.' No observer who has had dealings with the Jews of Austria will doubt that some impulse more subtle than the expectation of immediate advantages drives them to pose as Germans and to associate themselves with Germanism rather than with any non-German tendency. The Jews who have deliberately associated themselves with and sought to become assimilated by Slav races like the Czechs, the Serbo-Croatians [sic],the Slovenes, the Slovaks, or by the Roumanes of Hungary, are exceedingly few in number."


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## codis (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: codisDate: 2020-05-04 17:11:15Reaction Score: 5




Felixnoille said:


> "The [first] theory... was in fact advanced to him by a learned Austrian Hebrew in order to explain the "pro-German tendencies displayed by the Ashkenazim Jews the world over." "German," he quotes this pundit as saying, "is the basis of our jargon, and next to Palestine, Germany is the country which we regard as our home. Hence our sentimental leaning towards Germany.


Many "jiddish" words are basically German. There are German idioms which much harder to understand then Yiddish.


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## dreamtime (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: dreamtimeDate: 2020-05-04 20:02:57Reaction Score: 12




asatiger1966 said:


> There is a theory out there, that thinks the Reformation is upside down.


Yes, see _The Jesus of the Gospels_ and _Oldest Christian letter outside of the Bible_

As far as I am aware, there's only one historian who discovered this.

According to the historian Edwin Johnson, the church forgery shows that the Protestants were part of the original Christians from the 15h Century, when Christianity itself began to form. The Catholic Church only came into being as a counter-movement to this.

Uwe Topper discusses Edwin Johnson here (in german).

But even Edwin Johnson didn't really get to the bottom of it, as he uses the word 'Reformed' to describe the Protestants, but they never used that name for themselves. It's important to understand the Protestants were simply protestants in the literal meaning of the word. The protestants weren't united by religion or whatever. It was just a protest movement. It's comparable to the contemporary resistance to the New World Order.

So basically something like this:

Christianity exists
Papacy exclaims monopoly on Christianity
Cataclysm or global war changes the power dynamic in favor of the European Papacy (17th Century)
All decent people on earth unite in protest
After a while, the Protestants forget what they were protesting about, form their own church, are subverted by Luther, now named Reformers
Bible gets written by both Catholics and Reformers in some kind of cultural propaganda war
Big war in Germany between Catholics in the south and Protestants in the North
Johnson asserts that the Bible was written both by Catholics as well as by Lutherians (Protestants), which explains the obvious protestant influence of parts of the Bible. The bible is the result of the biggest cultural clash of the 17th and possibly 18th Century in central Europe (even venturing into the 19th century, with the Napoleonic Wars as the final chapter of this traumatic conflict, which led to a process of political renewal after 1815 in Europe), and the so called "Reformation Wars" also laid the groundwork for the destruction of the original Greater German Empire, when the Vatican killed a large part of the german population and destroyed the Protestant Germany (Its destruction and fragmentation led to a failed resistance-movement which historians today call the the Pan-German movement and later to the two world wars as the final nail in the coffin of the once great german spirit).


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## JimDuyer (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Jim DuyerDate: 2020-05-04 23:38:21Reaction Score: 2




dreamtime said:


> Yes, see _The Jesus of the Gospels_ and _Oldest Christian letter outside of the Bible_
> 
> As far as I am aware, there's only one historian who discovered this.
> 
> ...


Big war in Germany between Catholics in the south and Protestants in the North  = Research into those that Hitler surrounded himself by, will reveal that they were about 90 percent from the South, since Hitler himself was from  Austria  and he did not trust the Prussians.


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## codis (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: codisDate: 2020-05-05 06:48:13Reaction Score: 0




dreamtime said:


> Big war in Germany between Catholics in the south and Protestants in the North


This is what I was told in school as well.
But as usual, religion is a mask to hide economic reasons. Wouldn't be the statement "Habsburg and vassalls vs. the rest of Germans" be correct ?


dreamtime said:


> Uwe Topper discusses Edwin Johnson here (in german).


Thanks for that link.
I had read both Johnson and Topper, but can't remember Topper commenting on Johnson ...


Jim Duyer said:


> Research into those that Hitler surrounded himself by, will reveal that they were about 90 percent from the South, since Hitler himself was from Austria and he did not trust the Prussians.


I see, you said 90 per cent. But Bormann, second in ranks, was from the north (Saxony-Anhalt).
The military brass of the Wehrmacht was overwhelmingly Prussian squirearchy. Hitler couldn't do without.
This might be a reason for creating the Waffen-SS, a second full-fledged army organization.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: SearchingDate: 2020-05-05 07:01:54Reaction Score: 0




asatiger1966 said:


> Seems that everybody is in on the joke except for the citizens "slaves?"
> 
> Good news you and I will be together LOL
> I had posted a Navy map to PrincepAugus sometime back showing his living space under water in the upcoming reset LOL. Maybe this will make him feel better LOL.


Will you please give me a link or some other info on that map so I can read more about this _Man in the High Castle_ dispersion of land that is to befall these great United States of America?


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## JimDuyer (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Jim DuyerDate: 2020-05-05 20:47:15Reaction Score: 1




codis said:


> This is what I was told in school as well.
> But as usual, religion is a mask to hide economic reasons. Wouldn't be the statement "Habsburg and vassalls vs. the rest of Germans" be correct ?
> 
> Thanks for that link.
> ...


Yes, I do agree that the experienced German military commanders were Prussian. And Hitler needed their talents. But he surrounded himself with others, from the south, for personal reasons.  I do not know - if the Prussians had been allowed to be more in control, perhaps they would not have even agreed to invade Russia when Hitler ordered.  And thus the coup begins.


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## codis (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: codisDate: 2020-05-06 06:26:33Reaction Score: 1




Jim Duyer said:


> Yes, I do agree that the experienced German military commanders were Prussian. And Hitler needed their talents. But he surrounded himself with others, from the south, for personal reasons.  I do not know - if the Prussians had been allowed to be more in control, perhaps they would not have even agreed to invade Russia when Hitler ordered.  And thus the coup begins.


According to what I heard, the Prussian military brass were mostly supporters of the dethroned emperor. While they could not blame Hitler and his ilk for the emperor's abolition directly, they didn't really like them either.  But they use to be examples of Prussian blind obedience.
For the Southerners, it is still the same today. Most Bavarians claim to not be Germans, but Bavarians. And they still don't trust anything coming the north. The Austrian region around Salzburg and Braunau had been changing nationality several times in the course of the last centuries (German/Bavarian and Austrian). But by culture, traditions and language (idiom), they are the very same.


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## dreamtime (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: dreamtimeDate: 2020-05-10 06:29:40Reaction Score: 7


If the war wasn't enough, the Allies created a condition of widespread famine following the end of the war, with a German report showing that in 1947 80% of the rural population was undernourished.
As soon as the Second World War ended in 1945, Canada and the United States began shipping food to the hundreds of millions of people who were facing starvation as a result of the war. Unprecedented in world history, this massive program fulfilled the highest ideals for which the Western Allies had fought. Their generosity seemed to have no limit. They fed former enemies -- Italy and Japan -- as well as a new enemy, the Soviet Union.Only Germany was left out.It is well known in the West that the Allies hanged Nazis for crimes -- the murder of Jews, the brutal mass expulsions, the deadly forced-labour camps, the starvation of entire nations. What is not generally known is that these occupying armies carved off 25 percent of Germany's most fertile land and placed it under Russian and Polish control, forcibly expelling about 16 million people into what remained. It has also been forgotten -- or hidden -- that the Allies forbade emigration and kept millions of prisoners in forced-labour camps. International charitable aid to Germany was banned for another year, then restricted for more than a year. When it was permitted, it came too late for millions of people.The loss of so much fertile land and the drop in fertilizer supplies caused agricultural production to fall by 65 percent. Sixty million people began to starve in their huge prison.
The mass expulsions from one part of Germany to another, approved at the Allied victory conference in Potsdam in July and August, 1945, were enforced "with the very maximum of brutality," wrote British writer and philanthropist Victor Gollancz in his book _Our Threatened Values_ (1946). Canadian writer and TV producer Robert Allen, in an article titled Letter from Berlin, in _Reading_ magazine (February, 1946), described the scene in a Berlin railway station as the refugees arrived in late 1945: "They were all exhausted and starved and miserable ... A child only half alive ... A woman in the most terrible picture of despair I've seen ... Even when you see it, it's impossible to believe ... God it was terrible." [Image:  Expellees from the East; as many as sixteen million Germans were driven from their homes in history's greatest ethnic cleansing.]Did the Allies Starve Millions of Germans?According to Bacque between 1941 and 1950 around one and a half to two million German prisoners of war died, whilst a further five million seven hundred thousand German civilians died between 1946 and 1950, largely, Bacque maintains, as a result of Allied policy. In all Bacques estimates that between nine and half and fourteen million ethnic Germans, German prisoners of war and civilians were to die in these iniquities. Part of the blame for this can be laid at the feet of Josef Stalin who, through his propaganda minister, Ilya Ehrenburg, actually encouraged the rape and degradation of the German civilian populationMost of the two million German civilians who perished after the end of the war were women, children and elderly -- victims of disease, cold, hunger, suicide, and mass murder.Apart from the wide-scale rape of millions of German girls and woman in the Soviet occupation zones, perhaps the most shocking outrage recorded by MacDonogh is the slaughter of a quarter of a million Sudeten Germans by their vengeful Czech compatriots.
Mass Starvation of Germans, 1945-1950Watch | HELLSTORM


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## Cemen (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: CemenDate: 2020-05-10 07:26:16Reaction Score: 3


Again about 2,000,000 raped German women?

This myth began to spread as soon as the war ended. It is striking in its monstrosity and it is especially strange that the descendants of those who once liberated this Germany already believe in this myth. The most famous is the statement about two million Germans raped by the Red Army. This is the figure cited by the British historian Anthony Beaver in his book The Fall of Berlin.

Purely statistically, the crimes of soldiers in relation to civilians simply had to be: a multimillion army entered Germany and it would be foolish to wait for the highest morale from every soldier. The lie lies in the monstrous exaggeration of the number of these crimes. But for some reason, supporters of this myth forget that any crimes of the Red Army were reported to the military prosecutor's office and such cases were severely punished.

On April 20, 1945, the Headquarters Directive of the Supreme High Command was issued by the commander of the troops and members of the military councils of the 1st Belorussian and 1st Ukrainian Fronts No. 11072 on changing attitudes towards German prisoners of war and civilians:

"1. Demand a change in attitude towards the Germans, both prisoners of war and civilians. Treat the Germans better. The cruel relationship with the Germans makes them afraid and makes them stubbornly resist, not surrendering. The civilian population, fearing revenge, is organized into gangs. This situation is disadvantageous to us. A more humane attitude towards the Germans will facilitate the conduct of hostilities on their territory and, undoubtedly, will reduce the Germans' stubbornness in defense.

2. In the regions of Germany west of the line of the mouth of the Oder River, Fürstenberg, then the Neisse River (to the west), create German administrations, and in the cities to set burgomaster - Germans. The ordinary members of the National Socialist Party, if they are loyal to the Red Army, should not be touched, but only leaders should be detained if they did not manage to escape.

3. Improving attitudes toward Germans should not lead to a decrease in vigilance and familiarity with the Germans.

Headquarters of the Supreme High Command - I. Stalin

As we see, even Stalin himself tried with all his might to keep his soldiers from criminal actions. What about a two million figure?

Bivor made calculations based on data from one of the clinics in Berlin. He found a document according to which the fathers of 12 of 237 born in 1945 and 20 of 567 born in 1946 were Russians. Remember this figure - 32 babies. After that he calculated that 12 from 237 is 5%, and 20 is 3.5% from 567. Of these, he took 5% of all those born in 1945-1946 and calculated that all 5% of children in Berlin were born as a result of rape. In total, 23124 people were born during this time, 5% of this figure - 1156. Then he multiplied this figure by 10, making the assumption that 90% of Germans had an abortion and multiplied by 5, making another assumption that 20% became pregnant as a result of the rape . He received 57,810 people, which is approximately 10% of the 600 thousand women of childbearing age who were in Berlin. Further, Bivor took the slightly modernized formula of old Goebbels "all women from 8 to 80 years old were subjected to numerous rape." There were about 800,000 women who were not of childbearing age in Berlin, 10% of this figure was 80,000. Having added 57,810 and 80,000 he received 137,810 and rounds it to 135,000, then he did the same with 3.5% and receives 95,000. Then he extrapolated it to all of East Germany and received 2 million raped Germans.

Not a bad mathematician, is it? But according to the same document, “Russian / rape” was mentioned only in 5 cases out of 12 and 4 cases out of 20, respectively. Thus, 9 German women who reported rape in a Berlin clinic turned into two million raped Germans.
_________________________________________________________________________________

Examples.

The Directive of the Headquarters of the Supreme High Command for the Commander of Forces and members of the Military Councils of the 1st Belorussian and 1st Ukrainian Fronts on changing attitudes towards German prisoners of war and the civilian population of April 20, 1945.12:

The Supreme High Command orders:

1. Demand a change in attitude towards Germans, both prisoners of war and civilians. Treat the Germans better. The cruel treatment of the Germans makes them afraid and makes them stubbornly resist, not surrendering. The civilian population, fearing revenge, is organized into gangs. This situation is disadvantageous to us. A more humane attitude towards the Germans will facilitate the conduct of hostilities on their territory and, undoubtedly, will reduce the Germans' stubbornness in defense.

2. In the regions of Germany west of the line of the mouth of the Oder River, Fürstenberg, then the Neisse River (to the west), create German administrations, and in the cities to set burgomaster - Germans.

The ordinary members of the National Socialist Party, if they are loyal to the Red Army, should not be touched, but only leaders should be detained if they did not manage to escape.

3. Improving attitudes toward Germans should not lead to a decrease in vigilance and familiarity with the Germans.

Supreme High Command Headquarters

I. Stalin
Antonov

Report of the head of the political department of the 2nd Guards Tank Army to the head of the Political Directorate of the 1st Belorussian Front about the sentiments of the Soviet military and anti-fascist activities of the German population on April 24, 1945.13:

An appeal from the Military Council of the Front about relations with prisoners of war and towards the civilian population of Germany was sent to formations and units with instructions to organize it to be brought to every soldier, sergeant and officer. Political agencies were invited to immediately investigate every case of looting, rape, etc., and the perpetrators to be held accountable.

Report of the Military Prosecutor of the 1st Belorussian Front to the Front Military Council on the implementation of the directives of the Headquarters of the Supreme High Command and the Front Military Council on a change in attitude towards the German population of May 2, 1945.14:

I give a number of facts recorded in recent days:

On April 25, in Falkensee, the deputy commander of the 1st Battery for the 334th Guards Detachment was detained. heavy self-propelled artillery regiment Lieutenant Enchivatov, who was intoxicated when he went home and raped women.

Enchikhatov was arrested, the case was completed by the investigation and transferred to a military court for hearing.

The Red Army outposts of the 157th separate border regiment Ivanov and Manankov in the city of Fronau, being in a state of intoxication, entered the house of a German. In this house, Manankov raped a sick German Liselet Lure. [246] April 22, p. d. she was raped by a group of our servicemen, after which she poisoned her son for a year and a half, her mother was poisoned and she herself tried to poison herself, but was saved. In a state of illness after poisoning her, Manankov also raped. Ivanov at that time raped the German Kirchenwitz.

Ivanov and Manankov were arrested, the case was completed by the investigation and transferred to the military tribunal for hearing.

The commander of the mortar company of the 216th page regiment of the 76th page of the division of Art. Lieutenant Buyanov arbitrarily declared himself the head of the Bernau patrol and drunkenly stopped all passing Germans, taking away their valuables.

Buyanov brought to trial by a military tribunal.

Lieutenant Colonel Losiev, chief of staff of the 278th page regiment of the 175th page of the division, sent a lieutenant subordinate to him in the basement, where the Germans were hiding, so that he would choose and bring a German woman to him. The lieutenant complied with the order, and Losiev raped the woman brought to him.

By order of the Military Council of the Army, Lt. Col. Losiev was removed from his post and appointed with a reduction.

On April 22, in the village of Schenerlinde, the gun commander of the 695th artillery regiment of the 185th page of the division, sergeant Dorokhin, in a drunken state, threatening with a weapon, raped a 15-year-old girl in front of his parents.

Dorokhin was arrested and put on trial by a military tribunal.

On April 25, Lieutenant Kursakov, in the presence of her husband and children, tried to rape an elderly German woman in charge of the operational department of the headquarters of the 79th building.

Kursakov has been prosecuted.

The directive of the Military Council of the 1st Belorussian Front to the Military Councils of Armies, commanders of the 16th Air and 1st Polish Armies, to the heads of front departments and military commandants of cities and regions on changing attitudes towards the German population of April 22, 1945.20:

To eliminate arbitrariness and self-righteousness towards the Germans, the Military Council of the Front, in accordance with the directive of the Supreme High Command Headquarters, requires you to carry out the following activities strictly:

1. To stop the unauthorized seizure of the remaining Germans of their personal property, livestock, food, with the exception of the urgent needs of combat units, if there is a need for any property to ensure the battle.

2. All property, goods, food supplies in warehouses and stores intended for the consumer needs of the remaining population should be immediately taken under military protection and transferred to military commandants for organized use for the needs of the troops and providing food to the urban population.

3. Decisively combat the illegal procurement of food and meat. All persons who arbitrarily seize livestock and food from the remaining Germans should be detained and punished, especially those who encourage it and give their subordinates the right to illegally procure them.

Cattle and food abandoned by the fleeing Germans must be collected and handed over to military commandants, from whom they should be given to the troops for the order established by the front quartermaster.

For the remaining German farms, the military commandants take all livestock and food stocks into account, allow them to spend only the necessary amount for food (16 kg of grain, 30 kg of potato, 3 kg of feed grain per horse, etc.) and sowing, and the rest is handed over to the owners for conservation, prohibiting spending without the permission of the military commandant. Cut cattle - prohibit.

4. To stop the facts that took place in the past when, when placing military units and headquarters, the German population was driven out of buildings without food supplies and personal belongings, and the latter was taken away. Henceforth, the necessary evictions should be carried out only with the deployment of headquarters and commanders and in the absence of buildings abandoned by the Germans. For the rest, the German population should be isolated from military personnel in separate buildings, allowed them to collect their property in separate rooms and pantries, locked up, and the commanders of the deploying units and headquarters should guarantee their safety.
...
The report of the chief of the political department of the 8th Guards Army to the chief of the Political Directorate of the 1st Belorussian Front about the attitude of Soviet troops to the German population of April 29, 1945.21:

Military commandants take care of the organization of the supply of food to the population. In the settlements of Köpenick and Ransdorf, the second day, the baking of bread and the issuance of it on cards was arranged. True, the commandants have little stocks of flour and other products - only 7-8 days. The military council of the army allowed to give out about 100 tons of waste from the meat-packing plant and direct them to supply the population.
_________________________________________________________________

During the period from January to March 1945, 4,148 officers of the Red Army were convicted, of which about 1,800 for crimes against civilians.

And these are only officers.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: SearchingDate: 2020-05-10 07:42:29Reaction Score: 3




Cemen said:


> Again about 2,000,000 raped German women?
> 
> This myth began to spread as soon as the war ended. It is striking in its monstrosity and it is especially strange that the descendants of those who once liberated this Germany already believe in this myth. The most famous is the statement about two million Germans raped by the Red Army. This is the figure cited by the British historian Anthony Beaver in his book The Fall of Berlin.
> 
> ...


You mean they were lying?! 
I'm shocked. 
Could the famous 6 million number be a lie, too?
I'm shocked.

Are there any other lies I should know about, or are those the only 2?


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## Cemen (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: CemenDate: 2020-05-10 07:49:54Reaction Score: 0




Searching said:


> You mean they were lying?!
> I'm shocked.
> Could the famous 6 million number be a lie, too?
> I'm shocked.
> ...


Not ready to answer right away, I need to look for information.
It's just that the story of 2 million rape women is very common and this myth has long been exposed.

About the famine.

Google Переводчик

Not only Germans were so unhappy.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: SearchingDate: 2020-05-10 08:13:14Reaction Score: 2




Cemen said:


> Not ready to answer right away, I need to look for information.
> It's just that the story of 2 million rape women is very common and this myth has long been exposed.


I'm being sarcastic.  

The same ones who lied about the 2 million lied about the 6 million and everything else, so who's in charge of the lying?

Seems to me it's the ones who needed to jump into a war with their "ally" Russia after WWII.


The *Information Control Division* (ICD) was a department of the Office of Military Government, United States (OMGUS) during the early part of the American occupation of Germany following World War II. Formed on 12 May 1945 from the Psychological Warfare Division of SHAEF (PWD/SHAEF), the ICD was led by Robert A. McClure,[1] with a mission defined as:



> [to] provide the Germans with information, which will influence them to understand and accept the United States programme of occupation, and to establish for themselves a stable, peaceful, and acceptable government. Such information will impress upon the Germans the totality of their military defeat, the impossibility of rearmament, the responsibility of the individual German for war and atrocities, the disastrous effects of the structure and system of National Socialism on Germany and the world, and the possibility that through work and cooperation Germany may again be accepted into the family of nations.[2]


Its initial task was sanitising the German media, removing figures with Nazi associations or histories and prohibiting overly nationalist or militarized content. It was charged with licensing the German newspapers, selecting editors who favored creating a democratic society, and pre-approving content before it was published - although from August 1945 the model switched to approval post-publication. Initially entirely independent of the military government of Germany, it was merged into OMGUS in February 1946.[1]
Information Control Division - Wikipedia

*As the Cold War became a priority in United States foreign policy, the ICD focused on using Germany as "the first battlefront of psychological warfare between the U.S. and the USSR"*, forcing licensed newspapers to publish content compatible with the direction of U.S. foreign policy and revoking the licenses of those that would not.[1]
Information Control Division - Wikipedia

ICD is in control of all German education and media until the year 2100.


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## dreamtime (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: dreamtimeDate: 2020-05-10 08:14:29Reaction Score: 1




Cemen said:


> Again about 2,000,000 raped German women?
> 
> This myth began to spread as soon as the war ended. It is striking in its monstrosity and it is especially strange that the descendants of those who once liberated this Germany already believe in this myth. The most famous is the statement about two million Germans raped by the Red Army. This is the figure cited by the British historian Anthony Beaver in his book The Fall of Berlin.
> 
> ...


There were 1.6 million allied soldiers in the western zones of Germany after the war. They were all alone without a woman.

In the allied zones, around 70,000 children between US-soldiers and german women were counted by 1955. There's a dark figure for abortions and relationships that didn't result in offspring. There's a dark figure as well for women who had children with soldiers but kept that a secret to their husbands.

20,000 women left Germany to marry US-soldiers in the USA.

After the war, there was a widespread hate among Germans towards both the soldiers and the young women, because relationships between them were widespread.

There was a collective helplessness in Germany after the war, and soldiers 'stealing' german women was one aspect of the collective trauma.

So there was rape, and there were voluntary relationships.

In the east, there were probably also lots of voluntary relationships just like in the West. But rape is always a feature of war, and always happens. Nowadays rape is still part of Russian culture, many women are beaten and humiliated regularly.

The exact numbers are always unknown. There are enough eye wittness accounts to get a picture about what happened.

Book Claims US Soldiers Raped 190,000 German Women Post-WWII - DER SPIEGEL - International

In wartimes throughout history, men are getting killed, and women are getting raped.

To me this thread isn't about which country suffered the most, or whether Germany suffered exclusively, but an attempt to analyze whether there was a conscious agenda to destroy the German spirit.


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## Bunnyman (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: BunnymanDate: 2020-05-10 08:20:27Reaction Score: 1


Maybe this thread should be merged with Did WW2 happen the way we are told?


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## Cemen (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: CemenDate: 2020-05-10 08:24:51Reaction Score: 1




dreamtime said:


> But rape is always a feature of war, and always happens.


I don’t argue with that. But the scale of violence and the fight against it are different.



dreamtime said:


> Nowadays rape is still part of Russian culture, many women are beaten and humiliated regularly.


Women are humiliated and beaten all over the world.
Do not attribute this to Russian culture.


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## dreamtime (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: dreamtimeDate: 2020-05-10 08:27:40Reaction Score: 2




Cemen said:


> I don’t argue with that. But the scale of violence and the fight against it are different.


The interactions (bothed forced and voluntary) between young women and soldiers were the first event of a long series of events in the post-war history where the german native population was getting replaced. After that many waves of forced immigration followed, and this continues to this day.

So nowadays we are at a point where even according to the official data Ethnic Germans are now starting to become the minority in the big cities.

I don't want to focus on numbers in this thread, or argue that Germans were the only ones that suffered.



Cemen said:


> Do not attribute this to Russian culture.


Ok, let's keep it at that and focus on the broader picture again.


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## Cemen (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: CemenDate: 2020-05-10 08:45:06Reaction Score: 0




dreamtime said:


> The interactions (bothed forced and voluntary) between young women and soldiers were the first event of a long series of events in the post-war history where the german native population was getting replaced. After that many waves of forced immigration followed, and this continues to this day.
> 
> So nowadays we are at a point where even according to the official data Ethnic Germans are now starting to become the minority in the big cities.
> 
> ...


I think that the current mass delivery of pseudo refugees is a later scenario that is not related to post-war events.

And in Russia people are also outraged by the transformation of Germany, and indeed Europe is not clear what.

However, in Russia the situation is not much better.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: AndromedaDate: 2020-05-10 08:48:35Reaction Score: 0




dreamtime said:


> There were 1.6 million allied soldiers in the western zones of Germany after the war. They were all alone without a woman.
> 
> In the allied zones, around 70,000 children between US-soldiers and german women were counted by 1955. There's a dark figure for abortions and relationships that didn't result in offspring. There's a dark figure as well for women who had children with soldiers but kept that a secret to their husbands.
> 
> ...


Here in North Germanic countries especially Denmark and Norway we have the word
"tyskerpiger"
meaning voluntary relationships between Norwegian women and Danish women married to German soldiers during the second World War.
I don't have the numbers here right here in front of me, but many Scandinavian ladies married German soldiers during the second World War.


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## dreamtime (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: dreamtimeDate: 2020-05-10 08:55:24Reaction Score: 1




Andromeda said:


> Here in North Germanic countries especially Denmark and Norway we have the word
> "tyskerpiger"
> meaning voluntary relationships between Norwegian women and Danish women married to German soldiers during the second World War.
> I don't have the numbers here right here in front of me, but many Scandinavian ladies married German soldiers during the second World War.


I think the hate towards these women comes from the fact that war destroys the natural boundaries between cultures, which is always traumatic.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: AndromedaDate: 2020-05-10 09:02:00Reaction Score: 0




dreamtime said:


> I think the hate towards these women comes from the fact that war destroys the natural boundaries between cultures, which is always traumatic.


I agree. Studying the German language you can tell the German language is a much richer language than the Scandinavian language in complexity and context. I suppose the olden Scandinavian language that once was upon a time is more tangible with the modern German language today. There are many dialectal words in Norway that exist in the German language I've found in a book, but have returned to the library...


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## dreamtime (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: dreamtimeDate: 2020-05-10 09:04:46Reaction Score: 0





> A forgotten genocide: the ethnic German cleansing.  Germans migrated down the Danube in three major waves beginning more than 700 years ago, and settled in mountainous areas of Bohemia and Moravia. These Ethnic Germans became very prosperous and those in Hungary, Romania and Yugoslavia were known as Danube Swabians. 1939 the Czech President expelled German minority to be executed with utmost brutality resulting 1 million sudeten Germans losing their lives. Many Ethnic Germans settled in St. Louis, USA


more info The Sudetenland: The Ethnic Cleansing of Sudeten and Carpathian Germans


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## JimDuyer (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Jim DuyerDate: 2020-05-10 19:30:40Reaction Score: 2




Searching said:


> You mean they were lying?!
> I'm shocked.
> Could the famous 6 million number be a lie, too?
> I'm shocked.
> ...


No, those are the only 2.  Oh, and the moon landing and UFOs, but that's the only four.


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