# Natural Magnets - Evidence of ancient technology?



## Worsaae (Apr 26, 2021)

Following the several threads we have on electric ether such as this one Electric Ether I've only started to look into this subject so I realize that many have more expertise here than I do. 
Many people do not know how magnets are made and many assume that ancient technology would look like ours but it's possible that we've taken a completely different scientific path than we did in the past ages. 

I don't have much to offer but hoped this would peak the interest of some and that others might share what they know or find in this thread.





> Note: This OP was recovered from the Sh.org archive.





> Note: Archived Sh.org replies to this OP are included in this thread.


----------



## feralimal (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: FeralimalDate: 2020-02-14 11:39:07Reaction Score: 3


For natural magnets, and the difference between natural and man-made magnets, you should take a look at this video from Peter & Pete:


I find the whole video interesting, but jump to around 25 minutes to see them discuss - and experiment with - natural magnets.


----------



## Worsaae (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: WorsaaeDate: 2020-02-14 13:22:06Reaction Score: 0


_@Feralimal_, Thanks for sharing a thought provocing video


----------



## JimDuyer (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Jim DuyerDate: 2020-02-15 23:23:30Reaction Score: 7


There was an archaeologist who studied the Maya, and found a magnetic compass needle constructed from natural magnetic rock and used by those people, some 400 years before the date that the Chinese are credited with inventing the compass.  Needless to say he was shut up.  However, he published anyway, and in one of his reports he states that several of the huge stone statues, mostly roundish or so in construction, had magnetized areas around the eyes or the nose, and nowhere else, so that it is certain that they were carved that way on purpose.  How could they, or better yet, why would they, have done that if they did not understand magnetic compasses?  And some of them were placed so that the eyes faced magnetic north.


----------



## feralimal (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: FeralimalDate: 2020-02-16 07:16:22Reaction Score: 2




Jim Duyer said:


> There was an archaeologist who studied the Maya, and found a magnetic compass needle constructed from natural magnetic rock and used by those people, some 400 years before the date that the Chinese are credited with inventing the compass.  Needless to say he was shut up.  However, he published anyway, and in one of his reports he states that several of the huge stone statues, mostly roundish or so in construction, had magnetized areas around the eyes or the nose, and nowhere else, so that it is certain that they were carved that way on purpose.  How could they, or better yet, why would they, have done that if they did not understand magnetic compasses?  And some of them were placed so that the eyes faced magnetic north.


From what I gather, natural magnets are created by lightning strikes on certain types of stone.  Presumably one that contains iron.  They also do not have a polarity.

Given that, how you would integrate a natural magnet into a statue, I do not know.  Maybe the stone was artificial and magnets had been placed there before setting the stone?


----------



## JimDuyer (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Jim DuyerDate: 2020-02-16 16:19:53Reaction Score: 1




Feralimal said:


> From what I gather, natural magnets are created by lightning strikes on certain types of stone.  Presumably one that contains iron.  They also do not have a polarity.
> 
> Given that, how you would integrate a natural magnet into a statue, I do not know.  Maybe the stone was artificial and magnets had been placed there before setting the stone?


Or perhaps they knew a way to magnetize only an iron layer in a larger stone, and we have not yet discovered this.  But in any event, the fact that they had the ability to use a compass, coupled with the fact that their numbering system carries on into the hundreds of millions, is certainly puzzling.


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: ISeenItFirstDate: 2020-02-16 18:01:43Reaction Score: 1


Lodestone.  Theory is from lightning strikes, but I haven't seen where that has been tested.  It seems to make sense at first look.  

It is interesting, especially about the selective magnetization of the stones.  

Basically, making a magnet usually requires two things.  Something to agitate the molecules, and something to align them.  It can be as simple as smacking a iron rod on a fire hydrant.  The impact will cause the molecules to shift and the earth's magnetic field will weakly align them.  The effect won't last long.  You can magnetize a screwdriver with a strong magnet by rubbing it in one direction on the magnet for a while, keeping the orientation the same.  

The strength of the magnetic field and the makeup of the stone statues in question would be interesting to know.


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-02-16 18:21:37Reaction Score: 0




ISeenItFirst said:


> You can magnetize a screwdriver with a strong magnet by rubbing it in one direction on the magnet for a while, keeping the orientation the same.


Use one for a fair length of time and it becomes magnetized to the point where  it can hold a screw on the end. The effect doesn't wear off.


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: ISeenItFirstDate: 2020-02-17 04:29:20Reaction Score: 0




jd755 said:


> Use one for a fair length of time and it becomes magnetized to the point where  it can hold a screw on the end. The effect doesn't wear off.


The effect does in fact wear off.  The amount of time will depend on several factors, but primarily the magnetic coercivity of the metal in the screwdriver.  

Holding a screw is the reason is is done.  Some will have a permanent magnet embedded in them, they won't change (much, in a lifetime), but one made by rubbing on a magnet will need refreshed to keep holding a screw.


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-02-17 09:55:36Reaction Score: 1




ISeenItFirst said:


> The effect does in fact wear off.  The amount of time will depend on several factors, but primarily the magnetic coercivity of the metal in the screwdriver.
> 
> Holding a screw is the reason is is done.  Some will have a permanent magnet embedded in them, they won't change (much, in a lifetime), but one made by rubbing on a magnet will need refreshed to keep holding a screw.


Sorry again I fail to make things I write clear.
A non magnetised screwdriver without any form of artificial magnet in its tip becomes magnetic with use. It happens all the time wth small jewellers size screwdrivers becoming magnetic the quickest and larger drivers the slowest. 
In all cases the magnetism is there years afterwards. In one case of a Stanley philips head driver it became magnetic over 30 years ago and it still holds its magnetism today.
It never diminishes and never gets stronger.


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: ISeenItFirstDate: 2020-02-17 12:03:17Reaction Score: 0




jd755 said:


> Sorry again I fail to make things I write clear.
> A non magnetised screwdriver without any form of artificial magnet in its tip becomes magnetic with use. It happens all the time wth small jewellers size screwdrivers becoming magnetic the quickest and larger drivers the slowest.
> In all cases the magnetism is there years afterwards. In one case of a Stanley philips head driver it became magnetic over 30 years ago and it still holds its magnetism today.
> It never diminishes and never gets stronger.


The average time a screwdriver stays magnetized is about 3 months.  It is related to the magnetic coercivity of the material.  Dropping it on a hard surface will reduce the effect.  Heating it will reduce the effect.  The physics behind what is happening is not complicated and can be tested and repeated as many times as you like.  The are countless readings and experiments that you can read and do for yourself.  

Since you prefer anecdotal evidence, I have been in and around the trades all my life.  I remember one old timer, he always re-magnetized his magnetic screwdrivers on the 1st of every month.  I have magnetized many many screwdrivers.  None of which will hold a screw now.  I have screwdrivers in every room, and hundreds of screws on my desk currently.  (project underway)  

I have never had a screwdriver spontaneously become magnetic from normal use.  

There is no mechanism by which a normal screwdriver could become magnetized by normal use.  

If you are using a small jewelers screwdriver to take apart old hard drives, then there is a good chance it will get magnetic enough to pick up those small screws.  Hard drives have very powerful magnets inside.  Using the screwdrivers inside a strong magnetic field, will magnetize them, and is not what I consider normal use in this context.  

Either your Stanley has regular use inside a strong magnetic field, or it has an embedded permanent magnet.


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-02-17 13:03:13Reaction Score: 0


I'm not lying, though no way to prove it to you given we are on differrent continents.
The jewellers screwdrivers have been nowhere near the neodium magnets in hard drives.
You've just triggered a memory of a set of footprints that got an awful lot of use in my plumbing days becoming magnetised to the point where they would hold onto filings. Files themselves would become magnetised with use.

I have four neodium hard drive magnets stuck to an ancient iron (one that was heated by sitting over a fire)  for four or five years now and it has never become magnetised. It used to belong to my grandmother and she died in '78 and its not been near a fire since. I don't kow what's going on there either. Mainstream magentic theory seems to be a work in progress , to me always to me.

Good to have you back on here though your input has been greatly missed. There is a thread, buggered if I can find it, where there's a wall in an underground auditorium pictured with unusual construction revealed by decay that would benefit from your building exopertise. When I recall it's name I'll PM you if you don't mind.


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: ISeenItFirstDate: 2020-02-17 23:59:02Reaction Score: 0




jd755 said:


> I'm not lying, though no way to prove it to you given we are on differrent continents.
> The jewellers screwdrivers have been nowhere near the neodium magnets in hard drives.
> You've just triggered a memory of a set of footprints that got an awful lot of use in my plumbing days becoming magnetised to the point where they would hold onto filings. Files themselves would become magnetised with use.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I've been reading when I can, but have had little time to contribute.  I do miss it.  Please, PM away.  BTW, you can prove it, as far as I am concerned.  Just let me know which end is North.  I trust you.  Every permanent magnet has 2 poles.  Also, let me know about the other thread, it has been some time since I have been able to read every single thread.

I know nothing of the history of Man and Magnetism.  I think there is more to sound, magnetism, and electricity than we know or are allowed to know, and it is an area of study I think could prove fruitful, so I don't want to digress about screwdrivers here.  I have always heard that we didn't really have a use for magnetism until the compass, and then that was the only use for quite a long time.

ETA - I do hope we end up talking about coercivity and remanence anyhow...


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: OutdoorsyHikDate: 2020-04-19 23:44:16Reaction Score: 0


That reminds me. There was a study done recently on a petroglyph site in my neck of the woods. The researchers discovered that the Native Americans would use lodestones suspended on strings to detect magnetic anomalies on boulders. One petroglyph, in the shape of a lightning bolt, was analyzed, and it was discovered that it followed the exact magnetic anomaly left by an actual ancient lightning strike. 
Here's a link to the study: https://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/l...FjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw1Jv7dhKTkmwdbdlbMyhi7t


----------



## JimDuyer (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Jim DuyerDate: 2020-04-20 15:09:51Reaction Score: 1




OutdoorsyHik said:


> That reminds me. There was a study done recently on a petroglyph site in my neck of the woods. The researchers discovered that the Native Americans would use lodestones suspended on strings to detect magnetic anomalies on boulders. One petroglyph, in the shape of a lightning bolt, was analyzed, and it was discovered that it followed the exact magnetic anomaly left by an actual ancient lightning strike.
> Here's a link to the study: https://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/l...FjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw1Jv7dhKTkmwdbdlbMyhi7t


I like your comment.  It's interesting that they would have picked up on the attraction in the first place.
I tried your link but got a 404 not found.


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: OutdoorsyHikDate: 2020-04-21 03:34:39Reaction Score: 0


Whoops, this link seems to work. The pdf of the actual study is apparently too large to upload.  It's fascinating though.

_Electric Universe geology (EU theory) - Lightning geology?_


----------

