# Melbourne, Australia with a twist



## Mike Nolan (Sep 14, 2020)

So the hiSTORY goes like this.

*The Founding of Melbourne, 1835*​Aboriginal people of the Kulin nation gathered every year near the Yarra River for ceremonies, celebrations and trade. These were important social gatherings where political and family alliances were reinforced and grievances addressed.

With the arrival of Europeans, Melbourne soon became a new type of meeting place, dominated by the settlers and their interests. The settlers were attracted by the rich pastures to the west and north of Port Philip, many of the same sites that Aboriginal settlers had long inhabited. This included meeting places such as the future site of the Melbourne Cricket Ground, the hill where Government House now stands, and along the Yarra River at Burnley and Clifton Hill. Evidence of these sites was recorded by the settlers, with the assistance of Aboriginal people such as Billibellary.

Competing with white settlers for land and food caused hardship. Aboriginal people were also struck by deadly introduced diseases such as dysentery, influenza and tuberculosis. Assistant Protector William Thomas reported that within 20 years of Melbourne's settlement the number of Aboriginal people of the region had decreased to about 28.

The charge to settle Port Philip was led by businessmen from Van Diemen's Land (Tasmania), including John Batman, his partner John Wedge and rival John Pascoe Fawkner. They arrived in 1835 with limited supplies but unlimited enthusiasm for making money.
In 1834 Batman was instrumental in the formation of the Port Phillip Association with John Helder Wedge, seeing an opportunity for expanding their interests into a new region.

In May 1835 the syndicate explored Port Phillip Bay, looking for suitable sites for a settlement. Batman claimed to have signed a 'treaty' or deed with Aboriginal leaders, providing them with 20 blankets, 30 tomahawks, 100 knives, 50 pairs of scissors, 30 looking glasses, 200 handkerchiefs, 100 pounds of flour and six shirts, in exchange for a tract of country at Port Philip containing about 500,000 acres. Batman then returned to Van Diemen's Land and began plans to mount a large expedition to establish a settlement on the Yarra River.

However just three months later, another syndicate of settlers, financed by John Pascoe Fawkner, entered the Yarra River aboard the Enterprize, establishing the first permanent settlement on the banks of the Yarra. When Batman and his party reached the Yarra on 2 September they were dismayed and angry to find Fawkner's people already in possession. The two groups decided that there was plenty of land for everybody and not dispute who was there first.

Aboriginal people were forced off their land and deprived of their rights to access resources and food. Although the Kulin adapted to the situation by bartering goods and artifacts, the impact of the settlement was devastating.

The Government of New South Wales, then also governing Victoria, thought that the new settlement should not exist. In August 1835 all settlers were pronounced trespassers and Batman's deed with the Aboriginal leaders declared void. Despite this, news of the settlement at Port Phillip had already spread, and more boats were crossing Bass Straight from Van Diemen's Land and dropping anchor in the Yarra River. In the chaos of the fast growing settlement, ex-convicts rubbed shoulders with free settlers and "young gentlemen", all eager for opportunity and adventure. Within twelve months 177 settlers and more than 26,000 sheep had arrived.

The New South Wales Government accepted the inevitable and hastened to establish control. They began to distribute land around Melbourne to settlers on the assumption that it belonged to the Crown. In September 1836, it sent Captain William Lonsdale to take charge of law and order. Soon the tools of authority were in place, including a court house and a police lock-up.

In March 1837, Melbourne was proclaimed a town by Governor Sir Richard Bourke during his brief visits from Sydney. Burke named the new town after Lord Melbourne, the British Prime Minister.
The Founding of Melbourne, 1835

So if the founding was 1835 and there was nothing there,not a thing so they say and this is what they say it looked like 20 years later.



Then where did all these building come from ?








Most of these buildings are gone now   ( I seem to have a lot of trouble loading photos and files on to this site as you can see and it does my head in ) so here is a link to see a lot more.

Block Arcade, Melbourne - Kodak store, 1900 | Urban Melbourne | Melbourne history in 2019 | Melbourne australia, City of adelaide, Victoria australia

Did Melbourne look like any other cities that you know of back then around the planet ?

Also i knew the Dutch had called Australia New Holland back in the 1600s but wondered why they just gave it to the British without a fight.  Maybe its the same reason they gave New Amsterdam (New York) over as well.  They say it was a trade but who really knows.  Why would the Dutch trade New York for a shitty little island ?  And why would the Dutch just hand over a land mass the size that Australia is ?

So im thinking that maybe the Dutch build these cities and lost a bet or something and had to hand them to the English without a fight.





> Note: This OP was recovered from the Wayback Archive.





> Note: Archived Sh.org replies to this OP are included in this thread.


----------



## SuperTrouper (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: SuperTrouperDate: 2019-09-17 00:30:16Reaction Score: 15


I haven't lived in Melbourne, but have visited numerous times. What I love about it is the quintessentially old worldly feel to the city which I do not get anywhere else in Australia, bar some parts of central Sydney, Adelaide and Hobart. A few interesting examples below.

Officially, the Royal Exhibition Building (below) was constructed *over a two-year period* for the Melbourne International Exhibition in 1880. Somehow I doubt that...


*St Paul's Cathedral* (below) is an Anglican cathedral in Melbourne. Allegedly, the cathedral was designed by the English Gothic Revival (yep!) architect William Butterfield. The foundation stone was laid in 1880 by the Governor of Victoria, John, Earl of Hopetoun (later Marquess of Linlithgow), in the presence of the Rt Revd Charles Perry, Bishop of Melbourne. On 22 January 1891 the cathedral (without the spires) was consecrated by the Rt Revd Field Flowers Goe, Bishop of Melbourne. The building work was marked by disputes between Butterfield and the church authorities in Melbourne, leading to Butterfield's resignation in 1884. The job was then awarded to a local architect, Joseph Reed, who completed the building generally faithfully to Butterfield's design and who also designed the attached chapter house in matching style in 1889. To fit the block, the cathedral is orientated in line with the central city grid, just off the north-south axis, rather than facing east, the traditional direction. The pipe organ was commissioned from the English builder T. C. Lewis, one of the most prominent organ builders of the 19th century. For nearly 40 years, without the spires, the cathedral presented as a rather solid, horizontal mass. Construction of the spires began in 1926 to a new design by John Barr of Sydney, in a more traditional Gothic Revival style and with different stone from the Sydney area. It was also much taller than Butterfield's original design. The spires reached their full height in 1932


The Cathedral Church and Minor Basilica of Saint Patrick (colloquially *St Patrick's Cathedral* - below) is the cathedral church of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Melbourne. In 1858 William Wardell was commissioned to plan the cathedral with a contract signed on 8 December 1858 and building commencing the same year. Although the nave was completed within 10 years, construction proceeded slowly, and was further delayed by the severe depression which hit Melbourne in 1891. Under the leadership of Archbishop Thomas Carr the cathedral was consecrated in 1897 and even then it was not finished. Given the size of the Catholic community at the time, the massive bluestone Gothic cathedral was an immense and very expensive undertaking, and there were long delays while funds were raised. St Patrick's was one of the two largest churches brought to substantial completion anywhere in the world in the 19th century. The other is St Patrick's Cathedral, New York, United States. Daniel Mannix, who became Archbishop of Melbourne in 1917, maintained a constant interest in the cathedral, which he was determined to see finished after the long delays during the previous 30 years. He oversaw the addition of the spires and other elements in the late 1930s. The building was officially completed in 1939.


----------



## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2019-09-17 16:51:24Reaction Score: 14


Sounds like the story is similar to that one of San Francisco. The _Gold Rush_ is being used as an excuse. Funny that the time frames are virtually the same.

I think that 1851 is a very interesting date in general.


----------



## Mike Nolan (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: WarningGuyDate: 2020-06-07 05:41:11Reaction Score: 8


Have wanted to add more to this thread for quite awhile but being of the old breed and not computer savi i have just learnt how to make my files small enough to load on this site.  So anyway here i go with some supposed dates in the history of Melbourne. 

Here is the official population numbers of the time.


The geographic boundaries of Melbourne have been extended frequently over the 156 years since it was officially proclaimed as a town. In 1842, Melbourne was confined to little more than the formal square mile demarking the town in Port Phillip District of New South Wales. Now it extends up to 70 km from this square mile to Portsea in the south and includes, counter-clockwise from Portsea, places as far afield as Hastings, Cranbourne, Healesville, Eltham, Whittlesea, Melton and Werribee. Thus, in talking about the population of Melbourne, change in numbers comes not only from the balance of births, deaths and migration, but also from incorporation of new areas into the city.


Between May 1836 and September 1839, Melbourne became a thriving commercial centre, chief port to the rich pastoral districts that surrounded it, its population growing from 177 people to some 3000. The town was proclaimed an ecclesiastical city (with a bishop of the Anglican Church) in 1848 and, in 1850, Victoria was proclaimed as a new colony, separate from New South Wales. The speed of official recognition was matched by the rapid growth of Melbourne's population. By the 1851 census, depending on the boundaries used, Melbourne's population had risen to between 23 000 and 29 000 people. Thus, in a little over a decade, Melbourne had grown to almost half the size of Sydney, despite Sydney's 50-year longer history of settlement. As the population growth rate in the 1840s was more than 17% per annum, the population increase must have been dominated by immigration rather than by natural increase, which could have accounted for growth of no more than about 3% per annum.


The earliest consistent estimates of the growth of Melbourne were provided by Timothy Coghlan, statistician for the Colony of New South Wales. Coghlan defined Melbourne in 1851 as the City of Melbourne which had a population of 23 000 people. This excluded Richmond, Collingwood, Brighton and Williamstown, all of which were well established in 1851, but included Fitzroy which did not become a separate municipality until 1858. The economic historian John McCarty considered that the other well-established areas should be added into the 1851 population of Melbourne. This would increase Melbourne's 1851 population to 29 000.


According to McCarty, Coghlan defined the population of Melbourne from 1861 to 1901 as being the population living within 10 miles (16 km) of the central point of the city. McCarty disagreed with this definition, arguing that much of the population within this radius of the centre of Melbourne was rural until 1911. He undertook a more detailed evaluation of each area and arrived at his own estimates. In fact Coghlan's figures from 1861 onward are simply the figures published by the colonial statisticians for Victoria, variously referring to Melbourne and Suburbs (1861, 1871 and 1881) and to the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works District (1891 and 1901). The table shows Coghlan's and McCarty's population estimates for Melbourne from 1851 to 1911 and the annual rates of population growth in the years between the censuses based on McCarty's estimates.


1836

1841

1858

1861 population 37,000

1867

1870
Population 1871 was 55,000

1872

1875

1887


In just 50 years from 1836 we go from a few tents on the banks of the Yarra river to this in the 1880s  Population 1881 is 73,000 and they built all this so they say.  







1890

1890s

1912



WarningGuy said:


> Thus, in a little over a decade, Melbourne had grown to almost half the size of Sydney, despite Sydney's 50-year longer history of settlement.


I forgot to say i liked this bit.  



WarningGuy said:


> 1912


Have a look at how many people were on the streets before the 1912 photo compaired to the 1912 photo.  Where did they all come from ?


----------



## SuperTrouper (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: SuperTrouperDate: 2020-06-07 10:06:37Reaction Score: 1


The "horse and cart" pics should be copyrighted.


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: StarmonkeyDate: 2020-06-07 13:16:19Reaction Score: 5


----------



## wild heretic (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: wild hereticDate: 2020-06-07 14:32:59Reaction Score: 2




Starmonkey said:


>


That was my question. The bricks and the glass. Could trade ships from england really acount for all those bricks? Dont you need kilns and quarries to make bricks? We could be looking at something akin to glitch in the matrix stuff going on with dimensional merging from lots of realities causing buildings to appear out of nowhere. I know its far out, but im still having trouble with this. 

So in other realities the building has been there for a long time with an older melbourne but is brand new to our reality. Maybe time is looped in a multi dimensional way. Touches of westworld here with buried church?


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-06-07 15:11:56Reaction Score: 1




wild heretic said:


> Dont you need kilns and quarries to make bricks?


Clay pits, wood, water & the know how is all that's required.


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: StarmonkeyDate: 2020-06-07 15:23:09Reaction Score: 3


But the manpower needed for all that building.
Convenient it's "criminals" or societal offcasts and miscreants. Obscures much in the way of records. Name changing. Number designations. No restraints on labor until they DEAD.
No secret what the real issues of the man behind the curtain are. But most of the world wouldn't have the appetite for the game anymore. Or the current rules and rulers.
Subterfuge.


----------



## SuperTrouper (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: SuperTrouperDate: 2020-06-08 01:58:40Reaction Score: 6


Re: labour force and population numbers, this is not referring to Melbourne, but Brisbane. Very similar story. These three architects are credited with just about every major building that's worth taking a picture in today's CBD and inner city - Andrea Stombuco, Benjamin Backhouse and Charles McLay. There's about two dozen buildings, including major cathedrals, schools, government buildings, etc. Very similar story to Melbourne, just with different names involved. All were "officially" built from 1861 to 1886. FYI - the "official" population of Brisbane in 1861 was 6,051, and in 1881 was 37,127. Yup, the design and construction of these buildings was supported by a population base of a small country town, using modern horse and cart tech.


----------



## Mike Nolan (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: WarningGuyDate: 2020-06-08 08:52:03Reaction Score: 8




wild heretic said:


> That was my question. The bricks and the glass. Could trade ships from england really acount for all those bricks? Dont you need kilns and quarries to make bricks? We could be looking at something akin to glitch in the matrix stuff going on with dimensional merging from lots of realities causing buildings to appear out of nowhere. I know its far out, but im still having trouble with this.
> 
> So in other realities the building has been there for a long time with an older melbourne but is brand new to our reality. Maybe time is looped in a multi dimensional way. Touches of westworld here with buried church?


Its not just Melbourne. 50km S/W of Melb is the city of Geelong where i grew up and it is full of the same type of buildings.  Maybe i will do a thread on Geelong next as it being my home town.

This building below is now the National Wool Museum which i worked at when it was restored 30 years ago.  I worked for an earth moving contractor at the time and our job was to dig out the basement which is now a night club.  You could not stand up down there it was full of dirt. It took us months to dig it out working day and night.  We had 3 bobcats down there going flat out.   I didnt know back then but we were digging out a mud flood.  I picked up some very large bluestone blocks from that job some being over 1500mm long x 600mm wide and 400mm high. All cut perfectly and i got truck loads of them.  I could not understand where they come from so asked around and the only story i got from one old bloke was that they came out from England as ballast in the ships.  Geelong was full of very big old bluestone building like this and i remember thinking WTF how many ships must of come to this small town as it was back then. There must of been thousands of ships full of just bluestone to of done all that.  Geelong only has a small bay for shipping " Corio Bay" and even today it can not take many ships.  Ships could only enter Corio bay at high tide because of a sandbar and at low tide they moved stock from one side to the other using the sand bar to cross the bay.  

National Wool Museum Geelong.  Have a look at the ground level in the second photo and tell me what you can see ?



Most of the old buildings are gone now including this one and many many more.

I have lots of photos of these old building i will dig up and post when i have time.

Then there are the other small cities inland around Melb that are also full of old bluestone buildings all built around the same time from 1860s to 1900 so they say. 

I am totally convinced that most of the cities of Australia where here before the so called Captain Cook ever got here.   

Captain Cook   His name was Cook because they cooked him up. It is just another name they made up to build on the lie we live.

To answer your question it was not possible. I have searched long and hard to find quarries around Geelong and there were only a few small ones. 

 My thinking of late is yeah our reality somehow must chance and merge into new realities.  I think our reality is changing right now



jd755 said:


> Clay pits, wood, water & the know how is all that's required.


Thats a lot of clay pits ,a f**k load of trees and a shit load of water to pull that off.  I have found no evidence anywhere in the region to suggest that was the case.  

A City of Geelong thread will be my next one on this forum.


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-06-08 09:08:18Reaction Score: 1




WarningGuy said:


> Thats a lot of clay pits ,a f**k load of trees and a shit load of water to pull that off. I have found no evidence anywhere in the region to suggest that was the case.


Fact remains those few things remains those few things are all that's needed t manufacture bricks.  There is precious little evidence of the existence of the local brickworks (clay pit et al) just a mile & a half away from where I sit & it only went out of use in the early seventies. The surviving evidence is a small but deep spring fed artificial pond.
Are there coal seams nearby?


----------



## SuperTrouper (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: SuperTrouperDate: 2020-06-08 09:23:18Reaction Score: 1




WarningGuy said:


> Its not just Melbourne. 50km S/W of Melb is the city of Geelong where i grew up and it is full of the same type of buildings.  Maybe i will do a thread on Geelong next as it being my home town.


Good work on Geelong. I've actually visited the Wool Museum when I was there in about 2003. It struck me as quite a unique place. For starters, I could not believe a bloody sheep can weigh close to 200 kg. I thought that Geelong had some old worldly charm to it, similar to some areas in Hobart and Adelaide.

I've done a lot of walking and exploring around Brisbane, mainly as I go about my business. I know what a building actually built in 1864 looks like. The oldest licensed bar in the state of Queensland dates from then. Below is its pic. This was the actual "marvel" of colonial architecture. This is not a "mudflood" building, I can attest to that. There are numerous buildings around Brisbane that predate the "mudflood", and the style gives them away immediately. Also, ground levels are half (or more) buried, which is an easy giveaway. The same story goes for other Australian cities, pretty much a similar story to what we find across North America.


----------



## Mike Nolan (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: WarningGuyDate: 2020-06-08 09:24:24Reaction Score: 1




jd755 said:


> Fact remains those few things remains those few things are all that's needed t manufacture bricks.  There is precious little evidence of the existence of the local brickworks (clay pit et al) just a mile & a half away from where I sit & it only went out of use in the early seventies. The surviving evidence is a small but deep spring fed artificial pond.
> Are there coal seams nearby?


Only one that i know off which was only a small supply (now run out) in Anglesea about 50km S/E again from Geelong and Melbourne.  Why do you ask ?  There are and always been large Sandstone and Lime deposits within 10km of Geelong but very little of old bluestone quarries although there is bluestone there.

Edit:     You got me thinking here.   I remember as a small kid going to the tip with the old man and within a few kms of the city.  What i remember where deep large cut out holes.  The city used them at tips.  The one i remember at my earliest was quite strange a new tip at the time.  It would of been maybe (as a small kid talking) 200m deep which went straight down.  No way in or out. I remember thinking if i fell in there i could never get out...   I have to look into this a bit more.  I have researched bluestone quarries around Geelong and in that research i could not find any quarries on paper.  And im only talking 50 yrs ago.    

KD can we move this to its own thread somehow ?


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-06-08 09:36:43Reaction Score: 2




WarningGuy said:


> Why do you ask ?


Well coal heat would do the firing instead of wood.
I have a feeling Aus had much more tree cover than it does today which could explain the basement full of mud, could being the operative word. The former forested soil without its tree protection is liable to be easily put into solution by persistent rains & water always finds its lowest level hence the basement filling up. Just a musing or two.
One of my ancestors transported on the last convict ship (for arson) was in Perth for five years or so, served less than half his sentence, built a couple of streets worth of wooden houses then sold up & returned to Liverpool a wealthy man.


WarningGuy said:


> There are and always been large Sandstone and Lime deposits within 10km of Geelong but very little of old bluestone quarries although there is bluestone there.


Where there is sandstone there is clay. The bluestone is much more likely to be local than shipped from England. Brick ballast is much easier to load & stabilise onboard ship than heavy cut stone. Wonder what was used as ballast on ships returning the Britain?

The question that doesn't seem to get answered is why did 'mudfloods' stop happening?
Also given the spread of cities since I was born is truly incredible to see what would be the reason why the pre 'mudflood' Aussie cities didn't spread in a similar fashion?


----------



## Bunnyman (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: BunnymanDate: 2020-06-08 09:53:39Reaction Score: 1




jd755 said:


> Fact remains those few things remains those few things are all that's needed t manufacture bricks.


Indeed this seems a possibility. Below you see some pics I took from such a small scale operation that my in laws used to own. I was always amazed by the enormous output achievable with minimum labor force. Mind you this is very intensive work. Mix the clay with water, put it in a mold, sun dry the bricks and cure by oven.

No I am going out an a limb again with the following proposition. Operations like these do not have to result in residual pits. If you scale operations up, one can imagine a large swat of land skimmed of the necessary soil. In threads such as "do we live in a quarry" (or something to that extent) it shows plausibility of canyons and such being the result of large scale excavation. Such would supply ample clay. We may string together the large scale stripping of trees around earth as well and that could account for the fuel. Although coal could be an alternative. This supposition also begs the question whether ocean levels really increased instead of land masses having been skimmed. Just a spin of the mind.


----------



## Mike Nolan (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: WarningGuyDate: 2020-06-08 10:02:07Reaction Score: 1




jd755 said:


> Wonder what was used as ballast on ships returning the Britain?


From Geelong it was wool


jd755 said:


> The question that doesn't seem to get answered is why did 'mudfloods' stop happening?
> Also given the spread of cities since I was born is truly incredible to see what would be the reason why the pre 'mudflood' Aussie cities didn't spread in a similar fashion?


I have wondered how Geelong was ever mud flooded as it has only a small hill it sits on with a river (Barwon River) on one side and the bay on the other  About 4km apart.


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-06-08 12:00:25Reaction Score: 1




WarningGuy said:


> From Geelong it was wool


Hmm. Wool is heavy, surprisingly so especially when baled so on a weight basis this makes sense however the volume of baled wool is immense compared to the same weight of bricks.. The best ballast in the ship is the heaviest weight for the smallest volume that can be adjusted for safe loading & trnsport.
Lead is probably the perfect ballast in that regard & it doesn't mind getting wet.
Wet wool on the other hand simply gets heavier & when wet begins to rot & potentially heat up as well as stink to high heaven so my guess, for that is all it is, is that the wool was the export cargo & something else was the ballast.


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: StarmonkeyDate: 2020-06-08 12:58:54Reaction Score: 2


AD has done a bit of digging around Au ( gold? ), and has some pop. numbers. Mostly Wiki.
Be interesting to chronologically correlate Australia and the U.S. since we have some of the same markers.
Thar's gold in them hills!


----------



## Mike Nolan (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: WarningGuyDate: 2020-06-08 21:22:13Reaction Score: 1




Starmonkey said:


> AD has done a bit of digging around Au ( gold? ), and has some pop. numbers. Mostly Wiki.
> Be interesting to chronologically correlate Australia and the U.S. since we have some of the same markers.
> Thar's gold in them hills!


The video Auto did about Geelong was all wrong.  I tried to explain to him but he never replied.


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-06-08 21:35:23Reaction Score: 1


Relevant to the discussion I feel though off topic slightly.
The Limits of Animal Powered Transportation: Table Top Wool Wagons
Ever read this?
Wool, Wagons and Clipper Ships


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: StarmonkeyDate: 2020-06-08 21:36:13Reaction Score: 1




WarningGuy said:


> The video Auto did about Geelong was all wrong.  I tried to explain to him but he never replied.


Yeah... I definitely don't take it all in. Some good pics here and there, but...
I know nothing much about down under. Looking forward to more interpretations.


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: ReichenbachDate: 2020-06-08 23:44:11Reaction Score: 5




WarningGuy said:


> So the hiSTORY goes like this.
> 
> *The Founding of Melbourne, 1835*Aboriginal people of the Kulin nation gathered every year near the Yarra River for ceremonies, celebrations and trade. These were important social gatherings where political and family alliances were reinforced and grievances addressed.
> 
> ...


the question of who built these cities of the recent past is always a fun question filled with many more questions ... wandering around downtown Nashville is one case in point ... it just feels like everything was built with whatever tools we have ... the stories are so convincing ... at least in Melbourne the buildings are intact ... i was reading through tech_dancer reconstructing a city in Russia called Murom where he ended up with a six pointed star fort ... Murom was destroyed completely ... practically converted into dust on the ground ... Melbourne looks like a typical recent past / Antiquity city and its buildings and their photos are proof of it ... none of those buildings can be reconstructed exactly nor duplicated ...


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-06-10 18:45:45Reaction Score: 3


A bit more of the puzzle.
_The White Star flag was originally the house-flag of the Aberdeen White Star Line, a company which had been founded in 1845 by Henry Threlfall Wilson and John Pilkington. Prompted by the discovery of gold in Australia the company operated a fleet of sailing clippers to cope with the rush of prospectors to the newly found goldfields. The clippers, which started sailings in 1852, operated between Liverpool and Melbourne returning to England with whale oil, seal skins, wool and, more importantly, gold._


----------



## DanFromMN (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: DanfromMNDate: 2020-06-10 22:12:53Reaction Score: 3




KorbenDallas said:


> Sounds like the story is similar to that one of San Francisco. The _Gold Rush_ is being used as an excuse. Funny that the time frames are virtually the same.
> 
> I think that 1851 is a very interesting date in general.


1850 is the first recorded Farmers Alminac.  Since that's the first year we decided that information was relevant.


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-06-11 18:11:04Reaction Score: 1


Another  bit more of the puzzle.
*Melbourne and its Shipping 1851-2.*

_It was some months before the news of the great Australian gold strike spread round the world, and one can well imagine the excitement on board the7 incoming emigrant ships, when they were boarded almost before their anchors were down and told the great news. Often successful miners would come off and prove their words by scattering gold on the deck, to be scrambled for, or by removing their hats and displaying rolls of bank notes inside them. Settlers, bereft of their servants, sometimes even came off with the pilot in their anxiety to engage men. Indeed it was commonly reported in the winter of 1851 that the Governor was compelled to groom his own horse.


With such stories flying about, and every native apparently in a state of semi-hysteria, it is not surprising that often whole ships’ crews, from the captain down, caught the gold fever and left their vessels deserted. Not even the lordly Blackwall liners with their almost naval discipline could keep their crews. The six-shooter and belaying pin were used in vain. Shipmasters were at their wits’ end where to get crews for the homeward run. £40 and even £50 was not found to be sufficient inducement to tempt sailors away from this marvellous land of gold. Even the gaol was scoured and prisoners paid £30 on the capstan and £3 a month for the passage.

By June, 1852, fifty ships were lying in Hobson’s Bay deserted by the crews. Nor were other Australian ports much better. The mail steamer Australian had to be helped away from Sydney by a detachment of volunteers from H.M. brig Fantome; and at Melbourne and Adelaide, where she called for mails, police had to be stationed at her gangways to prevent desertion, whilst at Albany she was delayed seven days for want of coal, because the crew of the receiving ship, who were to put the coal aboard, were all in prison to keep them from running off to the diggings.

Some description of Melbourne at this wonderful period of its history may perhaps be of interest.

From the anchorage, St. Kilda showed through the telescope as a small cluster of cottages, whilst across the bay a few match-boarding huts on the beach stood opposite some wooden jetties. Williamstown, indeed, possessed some stone buildings and a stone pierhead, but in order to get ashore the unhappy emigrant had to hire a boat. Then when he at last succeeded in getting his baggage on the quay, he had to guard it himself, or it would mysteriously disappear. Rather than do this, many a newly arrived emigrant put his outfit up to auction—acting as his own auctioneer on the pierhead itself. And as an outfit purchased in England for the Colonies is usually more remarkable for its weight than its suitability, those who did this generally profited by their astuteness. Melbourne itself could either be reached by a river steamboat up the Yarra Yarra, which at that time was not more than 25 feet wide in places; or by ferry boat across the bay and a two-mile walk from the beach by a rough trail through sand, scrub and marsh. When emigrants began to arrive in such numbers as to overflow Melbourne, the beach became covered with tents and shacks and was known as “canvas town.”

There were only 23,000 inhabitants in Melbourne at the time of the gold discovery. Its houses were mostly of wood and but one story high. With the exception of Collins, Bourke and Elizabeth Streets, which were paved, the streets were merely narrow muddy lanes, and there were no foot pavements. In the wet weather these lanes became torrents of water and many a carter reaped a harvest taking people across the road at sixpence a time.

Lucky diggers, down on the spree, easily distinguishable by their plaid or chequered jumpers, cabbage tree hats, moleskin trousers, and bearded, swarthy faces were to be seen everywhere. Many of them spent their time driving about in gaily decorated carriages accompanied by flashily dressed women covered with cheap jewellery. Amongst these charioteers, the uproarious British tar could always be picked out. He disliked driving at a slower pace than a gallop, and as often as not, instead of handling the ribbons, he would insist on riding postillion—and he was also unhappy unless his craft flew a huge Union Jack.

As usual with gold so easily come by, the lucky digger made every effort to get rid of his dust. Just as the buccaneer in the days of the Spanish Main, when back from a successful cruise, would pour his arrack and rum into the streets of Port Royal and invite all and sundry to drink at his expense, so in Melbourne the Australian digger stood champagne to every passer-by. It was being done across the Pacific in California. It was done on the Rand. It was done in the Klondyke. And some day it will be done again.

The shops, as usual, made more money than the diggers; and tradesmen, made casual by prosperity, adopted the “take it or leave it” tone and gave no change below a sixpence. The police were a nondescript force, mostly recruited from the emigrant ships, and the only emblem of their office was the regulation helmet. Indeed, dressed as they were, in the clothes in which they had arrived out, their appearance was not very uniform. However it was beyond the power of any force to preserve strict law and order at such a time, and the most that was expected of them was to keep the side walk and gutters clear of drunken miners and to pacify the pugnacious.

The “new chum” had hardly landed before he was regaled with hair-raising stories of bushrangers—apparently these gentry had an awkward habit of holding one up in the Black Forest on the way to the diggings. Thus firearms of every description were soon at a premium, many of them being more dangerous to the man who fired than to the man fired at.

Before leaving Melbourne for the sea, I must not omit to mention a well-known character of those days, namely George Francis Train. He combined the businesses of packer to the diggings and agent to the White Star Line. He was a real Yankee with an unceasing flow of flowery talk; and, after amassing a fortune in Melbourne, he returned to his native State and became a candidate for the American Presidency; and he informed everybody, that if he was elected, he intended reforming the world. Alas! they turned him down—he went broke and sank into obscurity. Appearances at the present day, however, seem to show that old Train managed to plant some of his seed in the White House._

In the year 1852 102,000 people arrived in the Colony of Victoria, and in the 18 months following the discovery of Ballarat the population of Melbourne sprang from 23,000 to 70,000, and that of Geelong from 8000 to 20,000.


_In the five years 1852-7, during which the rush to the diggings was at its height, 100,000 Englishmen, 60,000 Irish, 50,000 Scots, 4000 Welsh, 8000 Germans, 1500 French, 3000 Americans, and no less than 25,000 Chinese—not to speak of the other nationalities of the world, all of whom were represented—landed on the shores of Port Phillip_

*“Marco Polo’s” Second Voyage to Australia.*
_
After such a record voyage, I find the following notice advertising her second departure for Australia.

_
_BLACK BALL LINE OF AUSTRALIAN PACKETS.

For passengers, parcels and specie, having bullion safes, will be despatched early in February for Melbourne.

THE CELEBRATED CLIPPER SHIP “MARCO POLO.”
1625 tons register; 2500 tons burthen; has proved herself the fastest ship in the world, having just made the voyage to Melbourne and back, including detention there, in 5 months and 21 days, beating every other vessel, steamers included.
As a passenger ship she stands unrivalled and her commander’s ability and kindness to his passengers are well known.
*As she goes out in ballast *and is expected to make a very rapid passage, she offers a most favourable opportunity to shippers of specie—
Apply to James Baines & Co., Cook Street._


----------



## JWW427 (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: JWW427Date: 2020-06-25 18:59:57Reaction Score: 1


Do we have any Aboriginal reports of old out-of-place buildings?


----------



## Dielectric (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: DielectricDate: 2020-06-25 20:06:43Reaction Score: 1




WarningGuy said:


> Have wanted to add more to this thread for quite awhile but being of the old breed and not computer savi i have just learnt how to make my files small enough to load on this site.
> 
> Have a look at how many people were on the streets before the 1912 photo compared to the 1912 photo.  Where did they all come from ?


Something happened. Something wiped out the populations. I just cannot look at the width of those streets and the lack of people, sometimes utterly devoid of a single soul, and not think something happened.  A gigantic pandemic or they were plucked from the face of the earth. Right now I'm favoring plucked from the face of the earth. It's like they all just vanished one night.


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: GlobeHead69Date: 2020-06-25 21:37:13Reaction Score: 2




KorbenDallas said:


> Sounds like the story is similar to that one of San Francisco. The _Gold Rush_ is being used as an excuse. Funny that the time frames are virtually the same.
> 
> I think that 1851 is a very interesting date in general.


Walter Veith and his crew believe that in 1844 we entered the end times, and its up in 2027.

You've mentioned 1850s a lot, just thought it was worth mentioning.


----------



## wild heretic (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: wild hereticDate: 2020-06-25 21:54:50Reaction Score: 2


You know what. I'm leaning more towards reality insert theory these days for these buildings, rather than trying to vainly grasp at some linear logical progression in development.

What if the mudflood buildings is a side effect of reality insertions. The earth levels are not or cannot be 100% synced between the realities. Why or how these insertions happen will require a bit of pondering perhaps.

EDIT: I'm thinking maybe the very process of reality transference liquefies the earth, causing it to come in on a different level. Because all these buildings are of the same style worldwide and they all appear around the same time in the mid-to-late-19th century, there might have been some collapse of an alternative earth reality. An end of the world scenario for that civilization of which we have nothing to do with. Their universe blended with ours when those people had run their course so to speak (for whatever reason).

I'm not saying this could be true for all mudflood buildings, especially cities that have melted like Petra. I think those are earth changes. Any building that has been buried by earth completely or partly on one side is an earth change I think. 

I'm not sure about the older mudflood buildings in Europe now. The castles come to mind. Ruined ones are very likely earth changes, but intact buildings like Buckingham Palace that showed typical mudflood signs in an illustration from 1715 might be something similar we are seeing to those mid-19th century buildings. 

We also can't rule out a combination of earth change and reality insertion for some of them either. That doesn't seem to apply to the mid-19th century ones as I can't find significant changes on the maps during those dates.


----------



## SuperTrouper (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: SuperTrouperDate: 2020-06-26 00:18:14Reaction Score: 2




JWW427 said:


> Do we have any Aboriginal reports of old out-of-place buildings?


Conveniently, accounts of Aboriginal history are based on oral tradition, e.g. here.

Everything recent is crafted so it neatly fits the dominant narrative.

I smell rats everywhere and I've let the cats out.


----------



## Dielectric (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: DielectricDate: 2020-06-26 21:44:23Reaction Score: 2


Supposedly if you fall back and punt, then recalculate your position in time, the year is actually 2012 by the Julian Calendar.
I can't remember how she calculated this but it's on this link. May dig for it later. This is probably significant and if correct it shows
that an understanding precisely calculated long ago was used to obfuscate the date when predicted earth changes would begin.
Prophecy In The Making.



SuperTrouper said:


> Conveniently, accounts of Aboriginal history are based on oral tradition, e.g. here.
> 
> Everything recent is crafted so it neatly fits the dominant narrative.
> 
> I smell rats everywhere and I've let the cats out.


Sea level changes and sink holes are key truthers to planetary level earth changes induced by cosmic forces.

Notice the first thing is the injection of "Rising Sea Levels."  They never say "Expand'0 Planet, may lead to; rising sea floors, falling sea floors, sinking lands, unexpected gaseous and liquid ejections, sinkholes, sand and mud geysers, earth quakes, freak lightning, hail, and variations in magnetic fields, along with possible variations in gravity, and finally a possible orbital shift (outwards)."

They never say anything like that do they?  See, global warming isn't fake, it's just told in a narrative that suits their mind control model, and which is "You're to blame."   It's always our fault. Couldn't possibly be energies from space causing planetary heating, here, on Mars, ect.

Any significant rise or fall in sea floors will have a subsequent dramatic effect in other locations. The ocean depths and wave heights are monitored with buoy's. People watch these things naturally. In the recent past buoy's have been removed from public viewing.  National Data Buoy Center

Planetary changes need to be approached with a wholistic oversight of a complexity of interacting forces which originate with forces outside of our atmosphere. For example; West Seattle's Bridge Failure along with other collapsed Bridges, muck and mud geysers, drilling, chemtrail spraying, possibly CERN and along with the afore plus others.

Earth's climate changes has the official narrative of you did it and now you must pay (carbon taxation scheme). That taxation scheme is designed knowing you didn't do shit, but will pay for the "alternative 3" save the elites butt's breakaway secret space program, a program now at least 70 years old.

I think it's important to keep this wholistic idea in mind when we look at earth history in terms of how earth changes took place in the past using the "official version of reality, taking note that it never mentions the expando planet model, but instead describes rocks from space bombardments. Compare this to predicted (Carol Rosin Forecast + Patents + Clinton/Podesta Emails) threat from space as again meteors and asteroids from space.

There's good reason to think that bombardments from space did precisely what the official version says took place.  However, for those events to have taken place it's likely that more happened first and which takes us back to climate changes being a product of an influx of energies from space which result in matter creation at the core of our planet.

Sink holes are thus indications that climate change is a product of internal heating, while meteor and asteroid bombardment would then be expected as more likely since those objects are now able to penetrate the mantle of a weakened atmosphere, and as the core of the planet heats the magnetic field falls further in to disarray leading to increased and more deadly bombardments.

You want to think deeply on this and how the system carefully calculates the whole. For example those old enough will recall the whole business about the "Ozone Hole,"  or as the well meaning but brainless science shills put it; "What have we done?"  Not what has happened from space that tore a hole.  So next we get "Star Wars," and here I'm talking about the Ronald Raygun version. So you see there's more going on.

When you examine the earth what you see are holes blasted all over the surface. Especially in the far northern sections. Sinkholes show a heated interior, production of gases, resulting in liquids. Therefore it appears you have both going on with the first planetary warning sign being a disrupted boundary layer in the atmosphere itself, then followed with global warming which include increased dangerous UV rays (nobody should be looking at the sun without serious UV protection), sinkholes and a disrupted magnetic field, and as this increases then increased bombardments from space grow, all of which is precisely what has happened and is happening right now.

There's a point to this lecture. What else don't we know? This information is the best I can cobble together. However, are there other possible effects which may be known to the few which we are clueless about? Look at all the tunnel cities that were built by people whom said the "god" so and so told them to start digging.

https://www.geosociety.org/documents/gsa/timescale/timescl.pdf


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: RonanDate: 2020-06-27 02:37:50Reaction Score: 1


Good thread. Will upload pictures of some interesting buildings I've come across soon.


----------



## Incognita (Aug 14, 2021)

Victorian Bluestone: An Affective Cultural History | ARC Centre of Excellence for the History of Emotions

An interesting write up on Melbourne's bluestone quarries and Melbourne's "history". Very interesting website name also, eh?


----------

