# Eagle versus Serpent - What does It Mean?



## HELLBOY (May 16, 2021)

The symbol appears in many cultures and seems to be older than we think.

Sinbad the sailor, predecessor of Odysseus, Marco Polo and all explorers -historic or mythical- finds a great bird that eats snakes on one of his trips, it is one of the most important passages because they lead the hero to a treasure. The alchemists also expose philosophical questions with these elements, their drawings are the writing of the unconscious that reveals, without rationalizing, the inner adventures.

*Garuda of India defeats Nagas snakes. Garuda - Wikipedia*



​Etymology: possibly Garuda came from the root grī and meant 'devourer', perhaps because it was formerly identified with the devastating fire of the Sun. The ancient Sanskrit word gṝ ([grrí]): 'devour', already appears in the Rig-veda ( the oldest text in India, from the middle of the second millennium BC).

The word grri comes from an ancient unknown Indo-European word, which became other words in European languages:

grrlo ('eat') in Slavic
gerru ('to drink') in Lithuanian
žora in Russian
glutio (‘swallow’) and gluttony in Latin

Perhaps Garuda was called a "devourer" because he was originally identified with the "all-consuming fire" of the sun's rays.

According to the Sanskrit-English Dictionary by Monier Monier-Williams, Garuda is a mythical bird (head of the race of feathered beings, enemies of the race of snakes), vehicle of the god Vishnu. He was the son of the sage Kashiapa with his wife Vinata. Shortly after his birth, his brilliant luster frightened the gods, who assumed he was the god Agni himself, and asked for his protection. When they found out that he was Garuda, they praised him as the tallest being, and named him Fire and Sun.


*Marduk, defeated what was once considered the supreme goddess, a serpent.  Tiamat - Wikipedia*






In ancient Babylonian religion, Tiamat is a primordial goddess of the salty sea, who teams up with Abzû, the god of fresh water, to produce younger gods. She is the symbol of the chaos of primordial creation. She is known as a woman and is described as the shimmering one. It is suggested that there are two parts to the Tiamat myths, the first in which Tiamat is a creator goddess, through a sacred marriage between salt and fresh water, peacefully creating the cosmos through successive generations. In the second Chaoskampf, Tiamat is considered the monstrous incarnation of primal chaos. Some sources identify it with images of a sea serpent or a dragon.
In Enûma Elish, the Babylonian epic of creation, she gives birth to the first generation of deities; her husband, Apsu, correctly assuming they plan to kill him and usurp his throne, then makes war on them and is assassinated. Enraged, she also fights her husband's killers, taking the form of a huge sea dragon. She is then killed by the son of Enki, the storm god Marduk, but not before she has brought in the monsters of the Mesopotamian pantheon, including the first dragons, whose bodies she filled with "poison instead of blood." Marduk then forms the heavens and the Earth from his divided body.

The gods decided to give all their powers to Marduk, he defeated Kingu, who was paralyzed with fear when he saw him arrive, and then Tiamat, who made her mouth open with a gale and launched an arrow into her stomach. After this, from the blood of Kingu (Moon) humans were born and from the body of Tiamat, which Marduk (Nibiru) chained in the pits of the abyss and split in half, it was created, from its upper half the sky and from its lower half the solid ground. His tears became the headwaters of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers.

This legend parallels those of Vritrá in Hindu mythology, Cipactli in Aztec religion, Nun in Egyptian mythology, Typhon in Greek mythology, and the biblical monster Leviathan in Judaism and Christianity.

*Horus an Eagle defeating the serpent Apophis.*


It is a gigantic, immortal and powerful serpent, whose function was to interrupt the night journey of the solar boat led by Ra and defended by Seth, to prevent it from reaching the new day. For this he used several methods: he attacked the boat directly or wriggled to cause sandbanks where the ship ran aground. All this had only one purpose: to break the Maat, the "cosmic order."

Apophis represents evil, with which it was necessary to fight to contain it; however, it would never be annihilated, it was only damaged or subdued, since otherwise the solar cycle could not take place daily and the world would perish. For the ancient Egyptians it was necessary for the concept of evil to exist for good to be possible.

The Egyptians believed that when the sky was stained red, it was because of the wounds inflicted on Apophis. Also, they interpreted that the eclipses were his doing, in the fight in the Duat.

*An eagle devouring a snake in Byzantium. *


Roman Byzantine mosaic of an eagle and a serpent from the ruins of the Great Palace of Constantinople. Gran Palacio El Museo del Mosaico. 4ª-6ª siglos. Estambul. Turquía Fotografía de stock - Alamy

How much resemblance to the omen about the founding of Tenochtitlán!  Monumento de la Fundación de México-Tenochtitlan - Wikipedia






Apparently, one more in Colombia: San Agustín · San Agustín, Huíla, Colombia


​An engraving by Giovanni Piranesi, a fanciful artist "artists of imaginary art" depicted in the upper right corner of these ruins a snake devouring a snake.




​


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## JWW427 (May 16, 2021)

Great OP.
Annunaki versus their Draconian and Naga rivals?
Light versus darkness?
Fascist eagle versus...?
I wish I knew.


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## HollyHoly (May 16, 2021)

the Aztecs supposedly traveled from a location in what is now Canada through  what is now the Westen US to Tenochtitlan which was swamp and there they saw the sign of the eagle on a cactus eating a snake which is on the Mexican flag to this day



​


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## HELLBOY (May 16, 2021)

HollyHoly said:


> the Aztecs supposedly traveled from a location in what is now Canada through  what is now the Westen US to Tenochtitlan which was swamp and there they saw the sign of the eagle on a cactus eating a snake which is on the Mexican flag to this day
> 
> View attachment 8949​


I have this crazy idea that the Aztecs can actually be Lombards.
That is, as KD said in several of his posts: America was already full of towns before Colon.
I'm thinking that the Toltecas were people from Tartaria and then the Lombards came to Norumbega and made their way to the valley of Mexico, then they made the passes with the Toltecas-Chichimecas and I'm even thinking that they spoke a language very similar to Latin, just as David Ingram said of the people of Norumbega and that the first friars saw to teach precisely Latin to the remaining Aztec royalty seems to me suspicious.
It was precisely after the fall of Tenochtitlan that Castilian Spanish was born in Spain as marking a before and after.
Leave all these ideas in this Thread:SH Archive - Welcome to Tenochtitlan as it was in 1520
It even begins to make sense that the people of Yucatan called Tenochtitlan La Gran Venice in this book: SH Archive - Country that the Spaniards Found in 1521, Called Yucatan


That the flag resembles the Italian and shield taken from Byzantium perhaps, remembering that Lombards and Byzantines lived together in Italy. I remember that the kingdom of Aragon also had territory in Italy, right? Kingdom of Aragon


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## msw141 (May 16, 2021)

maybe it's like a house sigil.  what's the origin of that story that the origin races were aviary, reptilian, etc..  I'm probably smashing together parts of a lot of bad conspiracy forum nonsense, but I feel like there's a Sitchin or Blavatsky or Vedas reference there.

the house of Adama vanquishing the house of Nephilim or something like that.


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## HELLBOY (May 16, 2021)

I want to add other curious data during the fall of Tenochtitlán:
In the book entitled "The True History of the Conquest of New Spain" written by Bernal Díaz del Castillo, you will find this passage that refers to supposed giants that inhabited the Mexican lands:

"And as our captain and all of us were already informed of everything those caciques were saying:" and that's how they had come to populate that land, and from what parts did they come out. "See, how different and enemies they were from the Mexicans, being lands very close to each other; and they said that their ancestors had told them that in the past there were people among them very tall men and women with body and big bones. They killed them fighting with them, and others that remained died; and so that we could see what size and tall bodies they had, they brought a bone or stilt from one of them, and it was very thick, the height was very reasonable; and that stilt was knee to hip; I measured myself against him, and he was as tall as I, since I am a reasonable height; and they brought other pieces of bones like the first, but already eaten and scrapped on the ground; and we were all surprised at the see, and we were certain that there had been giants on this earth; and our Captain Cortés told us that it would be good to send that great bone to Castile for His Majesty to see, and so we sent it with the first procurators who were ... Bernal Díaz del Castillo: Historia verdadera de la conquista de Nueva España: Capítulo LXXVIII - La Insignia
These expeditionaries were not the only ones of those brave and ambitious who had in the "New World" experiences with beings that at present seem supernatural. José de Acosta, a Spanish Jesuit, anthropologist, and naturalist who landed in America in 1571, for example, wrote in his Natural History of the Indies that the Chichimecas, original peoples who occupied part of Mexico and arrived in Potosí, were giants "who started the tree branches as we pluck the leaves from a lettuce ".
For his part, Juan de Velasco, an Ecuadorian Jesuit, highlighted in his Historia Antigua del Reyno de Quito (1789) that "Manta was at the beginning of the Christian era the theater of the terrifying race of giants" and detailed the spectacular sizes of skeletons and footprints found.
In Europe, José Torrubia, a Spanish Franciscan missionary, geologist, paleontologist and speleologist, described in his Spanish Natural History (1754) the finding of a skeleton "96 feet high (29 meters).


There is a theory in Mexico that Quetzalcoatl de los Toltecas was white and with blue eyes  Quetzalcóatl ¿blanco y de ojos azules? :

The friars of the 16th century tried to find the reason for the presence of the natives in these lands by looking for the answer in the Bible, concluding that they were part of the scattered tribes of Israel, when they found figures of crosses.



 


It turns out that in the 16th century, chroniclers such as Bernal Díaz del Castillo mention that in Yucatán they found “signs of crosses” (Díaz del Castillo, 1943), a fact that the Franciscan López de Cogolludo repeats in his Historia de Yucatán (López, 1957). On the other hand, the image of Quetzalcóatl, a character who did not accept human sacrifices and who was chaste, Fray Diego Durán says: “That venerable man, whom they call Topiltzin […] was according to indigenous traditions a chaste and penitent priest, of whom apparently miraculous episodes are remembered […] this holy man was an apostle that God contributed to this land ”(Durán, 1967). López de Gómara adds about Quetzalcóatl that he was a virgin, penitent, honest, temperate, religious and holy man; For Fray Bartolomé de las Casas he was white, tall, with a large beard, while Fray Juan de Torquemada agrees that he was white, blond and bearded. In addition, he is credited with having brought the knowledge of agriculture and other contributions.

Don Carlos de Sigüenza y Góngora wrote in the second half of the seventeenth century (Sigüenza y Góngora, 1959) that Quetzalcóatl was the apostle Santo Tomás, who had come to preach the Gospel, which Eguiara and Eguren endorsed in their Mexican Library when they said about Sigüenza's work: “… that Saint Thomas, one of the Twelve Apostles, had emigrated to this land, which they called Quetzalcóatl, finding the coincidence of both names due to the dress, doctrine and predictions of the Apostle…” (Eguiara, 1986). But the most serious event happened in 1794, when Fray Servando Teresa de Mier was invited to give the sermon in honor of the Virgin of Guadalupe. Based on data from José Ignacio Borunda, who had written his General Code of Interpretation of Mexican Hieroglyphics, in which he established that Juan Diego's tilma where the guadalupana was embodied was nothing other than the clothing of Santo Tomás / Quetzalcóatl, He attacked the Spaniards, denying them being the first to evangelize in New Spain, as the apostle had done that centuries ago in the figure of Quetzalcóatl. The result was to be expected: Bishop Alonso Núñez de Haro y Peralta had the Dominican's writings collected and he was sent to convent in Spain to purge his contempt.

The evangelization of the East is attributed to Thomas. It has great importance in both Syria and India. https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomás_el_Apóstol
Santo tomas who say that I evangelize in India, believe that in fact they were referring to the American Indies. 

*Thomas in America*​
In the seventeenth century, the Mexican mathematician and historian Carlos de Sigüenza y Góngora defended that the apostle Santo Tomás had preached in the Indies, not in India, and that his memory would have been transformed in the pre-Hispanic natives in the figure of Quetzalcóatl. In 1790, when important pre-Hispanic relics were discovered in the Plaza de Armas of Mexico City, the statue that was identified with Coatlicue and the Stone of the Sun or Aztec Calendar, the Mexican lawyer José Ignacio Borunda, took up these theories, believing that he found In the analysis of these historical documents, confirmation of the identification of Santo Tomás with Quetzalcóatl, also assuring that the mantle of the Virgin of Guadalupe was actually the cloak of Santo Tomás Quetzalcóatl on which the Virgin in person would have imprinted her footprint. These assumptions were accepted and defended by the Dominican Father Servando Teresa de Mier in a sermon he delivered before the Archbishop of Mexico and the Viceroy of New Spain on December 12, 1794, at the Insigne y Real Colegiata de Nuestra Señora de Guadalupe, on the solemn feast of the miraculous appearance of said holy image, producing a great commotion (as he denied the miraculous appearance of the image) that led to the opening of a process, in which the assumption of making the apostle Saint Thomas in 1st century America.

*Santo Tomás (Pa’i Sumé) in Paraguay*​
An ancient story that ran among the Indians tells that, long before the arrival of the European conquerors, a tall man, with a white beard and a great sage, called Sumé or Tumé (Avaré Sumé marangatú) who came to teach the Indians the art of agriculture, to sow corn and cassava and above all taught the virtues and use of yerba mate. Finished his mission he returned to the sea, leaving traces of his footsteps. In Paraguay you can find these footprints (Santo Tomé pyporé) on various hills: Tacumbú (Asunción), Santo Tomás (Paraguay), Cristo Rey (Caacupé), Yaguarón ... Pa'í Sumé is then a mythical cultural hero of Guarani aborigines, sent by the creator Ñande Ruvusú to teach them the religious, ethical, social precepts, of tribal life, the manufacture of utensils and artifacts, the cultivation of edible plant species. The first missionaries seized this story saying that such a mythical character was Saint Thomas, who had gone ahead to prepare for their coming. The Indians used, for their trips to the coast and to Paraguay, a system of roads known by the name of “Peavirú” ', and also by the name of “Camino de Santo Tomás”, because it marks the places where Zumé or I had. There are legends analogous to that of Avaré Tumé that ran among the aborigines of other parts of America, among the Incas, Mayans, Aztecs, etc. Father Montoya seems to be the first to describe the Peavirú. The Marakaná chief, from Guairá, related the legend of Pa'í Tumé to Fathers Cataldino and Mazzeta. Source: Folklore of Paraguay. By Dionisio GONZÁLEZ TORRES. Ed. Servilibro, Asunción, Paraguay 2007.


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## msw141 (May 16, 2021)

that picture of the cross at night is beautiful.  never seen or heard of this site before.


msw141 said:


> maybe it's like a house sigil.



this is pretty much what I was trying to think of.  I haven't watched this video so I can't vouch for what it contains, and I don't want to take any credit for doing more than a cursory search for it.  The house of Enki was a serpent, the symbol for Enlil was an eagle.  So the imagery of an eagle vanquishing a snake makes sense.   I was thinking of it in terms of a signpost to communicate that this land is safe for the tribe to settle.  Like the Tenochtitlan origin, and same as in the old testament.  The only thing I'm not sure of is if it makes sense... I see it mentions that Enlil was the one that called for the great flood.  So maybe he's the adversarial god, but then you always have that great deceiver component, where maybe you're being tricked into believing that by the "satan" adversary.  There's a lot of subtle snake imagery in the Vatican for example.  And if you think of the flood myth from Noah's perspective, the flood was actually to help Noah in the long-run by getting rid of the people beyond redemption.  So it still could work here.   You know it's funny thinking bout the Mesoamericans and the god that they were waiting on was the "feathered serpent" which is like the combination of both Enki and Enlil's symbols.  I wonder if that's significant.


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## dreamtime (May 16, 2021)

Great article, I have translated it: Adler vs. Schlange - Welche Bedeutung hat dieses Symbol?

There seem to be some translation errors making it difficult to translate, maybe you can correct them, and also make it easier to understand which parts of your post was translated and from where, so I can follow the sources.

Also if you don't know already, deepl.com is the best online translator.


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## Akanah (May 17, 2021)

Eagle... the winged sun. Snake.. the plasma-connection between sun and earth.
The sun feeds the earth.
Its like the bird gidhora and godzilla.Gidhora is the winged sun with the threeheaded snake (root of navelconnection) and godzilla is the hungry earth.


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## dreamtime (May 17, 2021)

*Eagle* = male principle, sun, god, heaven, north pole, spirit
*Serpent* = female principle, moon, satan, earth/underworld, south pole, matter

I refer to my post on the nature of the male/female:



> In Marco Polos book is a description about men in India seeking enlightment. The potential adept would be seduced by a beautiful naked young woman. If he showed no interest in her whatsoever he would be accepted into the brotherhood.
> 
> In ancient times the way towards higher knowledge, the path to enlightment was reserved for men. Back then women embodied the female principle, and men embodied the male principle.
> 
> ...



https://stolenhistory.net/threads/did-women-cause-a-cataclysm.1858/#post-65387


> A couple years ago I met a young man, the grandson of one of the high ranking generals to the founder of Saudi Arabia, Ibn Saud. His family is still mostly living off the riches of his grandfather. He told me how sexual excesses were commonplace in past and present Saudi Arabia in the elite.
> 
> Anyway, I think society underestimates how important living out sexuality is, especially for females. A woman's orgasm is completely different to a man's orgasm. When female sexuality gets repressed, the female nature changes for the worse. That's why the majority of the women flock to 20% of the men, to those who are still manly. I don't think the women who destroy society are part of those who get the most attractive men. Most female leaders have a rigid, non-sexual personality. The missing patriarchal structure plays a big role, but the name implies something different for everyone, as it's such a loaded term.
> 
> ...



https://stolenhistory.net/threads/did-women-cause-a-cataclysm.1858/page-4#post-65432


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## msw141 (May 17, 2021)

lmao "did women cause a cataclysm?" is such a great headline


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## Akanah (May 17, 2021)

dreamtime said:


> *Eagle* = male principle, sun, god, heaven, north pole, spirit
> *Serpent* = female principle, moon, satan, earth/underworld, south pole, matter



That is typical christian thinking and no more. Are you a christ @dreamtime ?


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## msw141 (May 17, 2021)

I'm confused, what's "Christian" about it?  seems like that kind of dualism is as timeless as postive/negative, black/white, light/dark, life/death, etc...
not exclusive to anybody in particular


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## Worsaae (May 17, 2021)

The midgard serpent of the norse mythology is male and masculin.


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## HELLBOY (May 17, 2021)

A moment ago I was looking at this photograph with the following description:
Queen Genepil (1905-1938) the last queen of Mongolia.
She was executed in May 1938, shot as part of the systematic purge / destruction of Mongolian culture, in which a large part of the population was killed.


​Before she reigned Tsendiin Dondogdulam




Act I follow I went to find the flag of the capital of Mongolia, Aguila devouring a snake (is it Garuda?)



It was actually an interesting read as it turns out ...
Queen Genepil (Mongolian 1905-1938) was the last queen consort of Mongolia, married to Bogd Khan. Queen Genepil was executed in May 1938, shot as part of the Stalinist repressions in Mongolia, in which a large part of the population died.


The Mongolian capital Ulaanbaatar maintained trade with the Qing-Russian dynasty by the Treaty of Kyakhta in 1727, a caravan route was opened between Beijing and Kyakhta.
The Treaty of Kyakhta (or Kiakhta) together with the Treaty of Nerchinsk (1689), regulated the relations between Imperial Russia and the Qing Empire of China until the mid-19th century. It was signed by Tulišen and count Sava Lukich Raguzinskii-Vladislavich in the border town of Kyakhta on August 23, 1727.



*The Qing dynasty in ca. 1820, with provinces in yellow, military governorates and protectorates in light yellow, tributary states in orange*​With the collapse of the Qing Empire in 1911, the city was a focal point for independence efforts.


The communist revolution of 1921 was a military and political event through which Mongol revolutionaries, with the help of the Soviet Red Army, expelled the Russian White Guards from the country, and in 1924 founded the Mongolian People's Republic. Although nominally independent, until 1990 the Mongolian People's Republic was a satellite state of the Soviet Union. The revolution also ended the Chinese occupation of Mongolia, which had existed since 1919.
The city was officially renamed Ulaanbaatar and declared the capital of the country.
It is after this that Queen Genepil was executed in May 1938, shot as part of the Stalinist repressions in Mongolia, in which a large part of the population died.

*HB:* I think it's a very interesting topic, it would be great if someone here put together a thread about it.
Searches:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolian_Revolution_of_1921https://es.jejakjabar.com/wiki/Treaty_of_Kyakhta_(1727)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Genepilhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsendiin_Dondogdulamhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulaanbaatarhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qing_dynasty


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## dreamtime (May 18, 2021)

Akanah said:


> That is typical christian thinking and no more. Are you a christ @dreamtime ?



fwiw, when I offer perspectives it doesn't imply I am fully convinced of them. Sometimes I just try to add different viewpoints so that we can discover the truth. Mythology is one of the areas where we can't know anything for sure, but surprisingly since the images are so deeply loaded with meaning it seems we actually do know, collectively, but it's hidden behind a veil of forgetting.

You can label things if you like, but it would be even better if you explained your own ideas on the topic in more detail ("Eagle... the winged sun. Snake.. the plasma-connection between sun and earth.")

I'm all for demystifying abstract concepts into something concrete.


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## whateverpal (May 22, 2021)

"Eagles consuming snakes" symbolism has a very straightforward, essentially literal meaning from a standpoint of Theravada branch of Buddhism.

Both Garudas (eagles/phoenixes), also called Supannas, and Nagas (serpents/snakes/reptiles) are beings that belong to a plane of existence known as caturmaharajika (world of the Four Kings), "situated" right next to manussa-loka (world of men) on a scale of pleasantness of life. Pali Canon, "the holy book" of Theravada, mentions that Garudas prey on Nagas - see Samyutta Nikaya 30.2.


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## betweenatoms (May 23, 2021)

JWW427 said:


> Annunaki versus their Draconian and Naga rivals?



Different heads of the same beast.  Sad people still worship these icons.  Glad we're getting to the point of this whole farce.


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## Samson4prez (May 27, 2021)

HollyHoly said:


> the Aztecs supposedly traveled from a location in what is now Canada through  what is now the Westen US to Tenochtitlan which was swamp and there they saw the sign of the eagle on a cactus eating a snake which is on the Mexican flag to this day
> 
> View attachment 8949​


 I read that they are part of the lost tribes and said there ancestors went thru all land of always winter which could have been Siberia and across a frozen land bridge... Makes sense if you know considering the eskimos


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## HollyHoly (May 28, 2021)

John David Ebert has produced a bewildering aray of videos but this series is very pertinent , in this episode he explains that  the meso american mythos/ world view does  not have  a dragon slaying myth and the ramifications of that on their society. 

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6bC6BQ9ncU&t=226s_
​
Mexico Unexplained channel made this video about the 400 cloud serpents  

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0Jaj0vskmY_​


Its a brief overview but it  got me thinking, it has correlations to the story of angelic beings coming to Earth and mating with women  also it gets around to talking about Aztec  merchant traders  and their forays  into various societies  being pretexts  for war,which got me thinking about the biblical Exodus  and I started looking at this whole thing as a kind of parallel history of conquest carried in the hemispheres one  " Israelite" one "Canaanite". I dont know if I can make a whole thesis on this but it keeps being a theme ,Dragon cultures versus Eagle cultures. China has a long history of connection to the "dragon" and the harder I study Meso American myths the more connections keep coming to it and China  culturally that is is in the form of world view and styles of government.


HELLBOY said:


> I have this crazy idea that the Aztecs can actually be Lombards.
> That is, as KD said in several of his posts: America was already full of towns before Colon.
> I'm thinking that the Toltecas were people from Tartaria and then the Lombards came to Norumbega and made their way to the valley of Mexico, then they made the passes with the Toltecas-Chichimecas and I'm even thinking that they spoke a language very similar to Latin, just as David Ingram said of the people of Norumbega and that the first friars saw to teach precisely Latin to the remaining Aztec royalty seems to me suspicious.
> It was precisely after the fall of Tenochtitlan that Castilian Spanish was born in Spain as marking a before and after.
> ...


Not that an  crazy idea  there is cross contamination if we can get our  ideas of reference  and  indoctrinated world views out of the way.I have a similar thesis that Ive been ruminating on for awhile


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## HELLBOY (May 29, 2021)

HollyHoly said:


> John David Ebert has produced a bewildering aray of videos but this series is very pertinent , in this episode he explains that  the meso american mythos/ world view does  not have  a dragon slaying myth and the ramifications of that on their society.
> 
> _View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6bC6BQ9ncU&t=226s_
> ​
> ...



Your comment is very accurate, in fact if you analyze the personality of Quezalcoatl it is a very good person, according to Bernardino de Sahagun during his stay in Mexico they all lived in great wealth and abundance, he was chaste but fell from grace once when he was drunk, which affected him so much that he decided to leave. But another version says that he had to go because his brother gods led by Huitzilopochtli, a deity who curiously is half destruction and half peace, Ying and Yang, were already coming for him. So Quetzalcoatl leaves and tells them that he will return one day.



Another nation that proves not to be fighting dragons is "Tartary".
Who by the way, ruled over China.




In an article I read about symbols, apparently each god had his own avatar as here in the forum we have ours, each of us haha just kidding!
The 2-headed eagle that is dominating most of European aristocratic symbology (Germany, Austria, the Holy Roman Empire, etc.). ), is a national symbol of Russia and is revered by many secret societies, spearheaded by the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry! Is the meaning completely lost ???
Now, there is an amazing story from South India that can unlock this ancient mystery forever. According to the Tamil Nadu scriptures, the name of this bird is Gandaberunda Gandaberunda - Wikipedia and he is a deeper transformation from Lord Narashinga Deva Narasingha Deva I - Wikipedia to fight with Lord Shiva Shiva - Wikipedia as Sharabha!
The gandaberunda or Berunda (Kannada: gaṇḍabhēruṇḍa ga ṇḍabheru ṇḍa), or Bheru ṇḍa (Sanskrit: bhēruṇḍa, enlightened. Terrible) is a two-headed bird in Hindu mythology, believed to possess immense magical force. He is an avatar of Lord Vishnu to fight against Lord Sharabha Sharabha - Wikipedia, who in turn was an avatar of Lord Shiva and had the mission to stop Narasimha Narasimha - Wikipedia, the lion avatar of Vishnu. It was the emblem of the Mysore kingdom under the Wodeyar kings, and after India gained independence, it was retained by the Mysore state as an emblem.
The Vathistabhana Purana, Vimathgira Purana, Pradhana Puranas, Prahladhaswayam Purana, Bhalukka Purana and many other Puranas narrate that Narasimha took the form of Gandabherunda (literally ′ ′ the mighty two heads ′ ′), a more ferocious two-headed animal, fighting and Fight and Kill Shiva-Sharabha.
Now the new question is: ′ ′ Is the never-ending obsession of the kings of Europe about the lion featured on their Coat of Arms related to Lord Narashinga, the ultimate combat avatar of God? "
​If you review several of the forum threads you will see that you can form an overview, this one that talks about the Phoenicians who perhaps dominated and dominate the world today, both they and the Masons claim to have built the temple of Solomon.
Curious that in Baalbek I find this Eagle that devours a serpent that represents Bacchus = Dionysus = Sabazio = Zeus the place renders baal a man looks like a Caananite. Dog Head = Cynocephalus



Although I remember that Jesus healed a demonized Caananite, do you remember what he said to her?
 “Jesus went in the direction of the lands of Tire and Sidon. A Canaanite woman arriving from this territory began to shout: “Lord, son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is tormented by a demon ”. But Jesus did not answer a word. Then his disciples came to him and said, “Take care of her. Look how he screams behind us. " Jesus replied: "I was not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." But the woman approached Jesus and, kneeling, said to him: "Lord, help me!" Jesus said to him: "The children's bread should not be thrown to dogs." The woman replied: "It is true, Lord, but also the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from the table of their masters." Then Jesus said to her: "Woman, may your wish be fulfilled!" And at that moment his daughter was cured.
Or the holy Caananita Christopher of Lycia Saint Christopher - Wikipedia.


There in that area we have a mixture of Greek, Roman, Phoenician, Mesopotamisco gods.
What makes an architectural niver paganism evident as already pointed out by KD.
The sacrifices of children in this place is also known and if the Aztecs come from Italy (Venice, Lombardia, Byzantium in Italy) it is evident why the Aztecs sacrificed people.

In fact it would be a great indicator of double-headed eagles in America Mayas, Tarascas, Oaxaca, Aztecas, I have several images about this. Even the first maps of Temix-Titan - Tenochtitlan bear the double-headed eagle. This image addresses it well.





The Aztecs wear the double-headed Eagle on their toga.

All the threads that I have considered important to understand who could be the Masons, the double-headed eagle, paganism, ect.
https://stolenhistory.net/threads/welcome-to-tenochtitlan-as-it-was-in-1520.147/https://stolenhistory.net/threads/country-that-the-spaniards-found-in-1521-called-yucatan.146/https://stolenhistory.net/threads/do-you-have-any-idea-who-this-character-carved-in-baalbek-is.5357/https://stolenhistory.net/threads/the-phoenicians-once-ruled-the-world-they-still-do-today.126/https://stolenhistory.net/threads/moctezuma-ii-the-holy-roman-emperor.1338/https://stolenhistory.net/threads/when-jesus-abandoned-america-or-why-tptb-prefer-pagan-gods.1300/


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## grav (May 30, 2021)

This writer concludes that Moses was also Noah.

Comets and the Horns of Moses,
from Laura Knight-Jadczyk's series, The Secret History of the World

It's one of my Kindle books, as is Velikovsky's Worlds in Collision.


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## HELLBOY (Jun 5, 2021)

I recently met this Italian man, he makes comparisons of symbols and figurines of different peoples.
Many times those comparisons are too surprising, that many of them deserve their own thread.
Luca Zampi


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## HollyHoly (Jun 6, 2021)

HELLBOY said:


> Your comment is very accurate, in fact if you analyze the personality of Quetzalcoatl it is a very good person, according to Bernardino de Sahagun during his stay in Mexico they all lived in great wealth and abundance, he was chaste but fell from grace once when he was drunk, which affected him so much that he decided to leave. But another version says that he had to go because his brother gods led by Huitzilopochtli, a deity who curiously is half destruction and half peace, Ying and Yang, were already coming for him. So Quetzalcoatl leaves and tells them that he will return one day.
> ​*Another nation that proves not to be fighting dragons is "Tartary".
> Who by the way, ruled over China.*
> 
> ...


 it s starting to seem like there is some mix up or misnaming or stolen identity hanky panky    between the  Quetzalcoatl  a benevolent human teacher of righteousness and   Quetzalcoatl the Feathered serpent God of many Meso American cultures . This is why I don't hop on the "Great Tartaria" train. Seems like the serpent dominated death cult as  the Mayans and Aztecs with the same  socio economic system  stratospheric elites enslaving and feeding on the  regular humans  using 'science" look our best guys say if we  don't sacrifice a few hundred of you a day to the sun that its just not going to come up and it wont rain and all the crops will fail."  That was the science of the Aztec Empire and academia tells us that these guys had super advanced astronomy and math  and architectural  and engineering of water resources and they lived in ridiculous opulence . The same academia that likes to white wash the uncomfortable  evidence of  widespread human sacrifice and cannibalism  by those same super scientists., I mean priests, who in every other society but the current one are the ones who  have all the real knowledge and technology.  The parallels with the social structure of China both now and in the past  just stick out to me  so Im coming around to thinking how could China be in Tartary and not be Tartary ,its the old if quacks and swims like a duck/dragon it must be a duck/dragon,


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## HELLBOY (Jun 6, 2021)

HollyHoly said:


> it s starting to seem like there is some mix up or misnaming or stolen identity hanky panky    between the  Quetzalcoatl  a benevolent human teacher of righteousness and   Quetzalcoatl the Feathered serpent God of many Meso American cultures . This is why I don't hop on the "Great Tartaria" train. Seems like the serpent dominated death cult as  the Mayans and Aztecs with the same  socio economic system  stratospheric elites enslaving and feeding on the  regular humans  using 'science" look our best guys say if we  don't sacrifice a few hundred of you a day to the sun that its just not going to come up and it wont rain and all the crops will fail."  That was the science of the Aztec Empire and academia tells us that these guys had super advanced astronomy and math  and architectural  and engineering of water resources and they lived in ridiculous opulence . The same academia that likes to white wash the uncomfortable  evidence of  widespread human sacrifice and cannibalism  by those same super scientists., I mean priests, who in every other society but the current one are the ones who  have all the real knowledge and technology.  The parallels with the social structure of China both now and in the past  just stick out to me  so Im coming around to thinking how could China be in Tartary and not be Tartary ,its the old if quacks and swims like a duck/dragon it must be a duck/dragon,


I'm looking at Anatoly Fomenko's chronological map and I think he did get on something like "Great Tartary". According to him, the Cross, the Crescent, the Star, represented the same religion. After the death of Christ in 1200, Mongol expansion begins in revenge for the death of Christ, between the fourteenth, fifteenth and sixteenth centuries the empire was already global. Horde = Israel Ottomans = Judea In the seventeenth century, the entire empire began to separate. In this seventeenth century the spiritual schools were also dispersed and in the eighteenth the diversity of religions. These are the Romas of Fomenko: First in Egypt XI, second in Yoros, Crimea XII, third in Vladimir, Novgorod XIII, fourth in Constantinople (Global Empire) XVI, XV, fifth in Moscow XVI. In the seventeenth century the empire separated. The Ottomans maintain their territories until the 20th century but the Horde disintegrates into different empires that aspire to dominate the world as it was in the past. Colonization begins and they erase the past of the Horde, the fall of the Incas, Mayas, Aztecs, Toltecs. Empires such as Absburg, Spanish, Portuguese, Russian, English, Chinese and Japanese are born. I guess this is where Russia eats the Tartary (Horde).
I notice how these ancient schools coincide in something similar to what Lao Tze preached. Laozi - Wikipedia
Maintain the balance between good and evil, knowing yourself, controlling your impulses and not letting your impulses control you, like anger.
He believed in the laws of nature, not those of men.
Later I find out that Lao Tze was an avatar of Vishnu, as well as Zoroaster and others. Vishnu Avatar - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre


​There is something that in fact, if it was carried out all over the world, if we base ourselves on official history, human sacrifice and if we apply Fomenko's chronology, all these ancient civilizations become contemporary.
Phenicia, Carthage, Greece, Rome, China, Japan, Scythians, Crimea, Mayas, Aztecs, Moche, Incas.
These Moches are curious because they have among their gods the Iguana gods, who live underground.
Curiously, its main god is also creator and destroyer, it is represented in a mural and is similar to the shields of other civilizations. Moche culture - Wikipedia




The Etruscan shield clearly represents the Gorgon Medusa, I understand that it was from Hyperborea, those who visited it were scared and say that the Irish went to study diabolical arts there, if you see the article of Hyperborea you will see wide connections. Hyperborea - Wikipedia
I remember more gods with that fanged look and sticking out their tongues like Tlaloc, the character at the center of the solar calendar, Shiva.
Fomenko chose not to speak of giants, automata, etc. Although history is full of technological devices, which if I found it curious, that says that after they avenged Christ it began to form as a type of representation of gladiatorial fight in honor of that fight, these fights were to the death.
Here in Mexico there was also something similar to a gladiator fight with the Aztecs.

The Spanish priests in the new Spain who thought that Quetzalcoatl was perhaps the apostle Tomas who supposedly went to India when in reality he went to the Indies, perhaps it can be squared because according to Fomenco Christ was alive in the twelfth century, to me it seems very strange that the second oldest map of Tenochtitlan 30 years after the fall is full of churches named after saints.
By the way, the names are well understood in Spanish, except for that Mosque with a crow on top that you can't understand what it says.



Tenochtitlán, 1521 — Viewer — World Digital Library​John Ogilby in 1671 already mentioned things related to religion about Yucatan ...



And let's not forget the little newspaper about the country that the Spanish found in 1521 where child sacrifices are made.
What is translated is its own thread. SH Archive - Country that the Spaniards Found in 1521, Called Yucatan


​Venetians = Phoenicians as I read in the thread about the Phoenicians, will this be part of the history rewritten to erase the Horde (Tartary)?
However, even today I hear about certain sects that practice child sacrifices and eat human flesh, slave sex sects among the political elite in Mexico and even serious people in the area of geopolitics pointing to these groups, said groups involved in holliwood and throwing rituals at full concerts or olympic inaugurations, etc.

Do you remember the one in Barcelona where Covid botargas roamed? and I think that's the name of the official mascot.
I saw the video on facebook, the description read like this:
Remember? These are the 1992 Barcelona Olympics, opening ceremony.
The mascot for those games was called COBI. and the games were in 1992. That is, COBI 19-92. What a coincidence not? Chance does NOT exist.
In other words, many years before the Dark Elite programmed their attacks on Humanity with "the virus". These opening ceremonies are rituals of Black Magic. The same, very similar, was repeated in the 2012 London Olympics, following the same agenda ... Log in to Facebook


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## Onijunbei (Jun 7, 2021)

It means eagles can kill snakes... Maybe we can make a flag with a cat and a mouse in it's mouth..
Now if it is a coiled snake, that represents the ouroborus.. The ecliptic of the sun over one year.

Edit.  Something just came to mind. The Snake was used symbolically for the sun and male fertility. If a king or nation was to take on the eagle eating snake archetype, it could represent the power of the King himself... Being the most virulent or having the power and authority to rule and to pass on his authority to his children. Maybe even having power greater than the sun itself, or authority over the sun.


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## HELLBOY (Jun 7, 2021)

The serpent and the eagle are also mentioned by Nietzsche in thus I speak Zarathustra.
When Zarathustra has a vision and sees an eagle devouring a snake.
Thus spoke Zarathustra. A book for everyone and nobody.
A book written between 1883 and 1885 by the German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche, considered his masterpiece.
A prophet named Zarathustra, a character inspired by Zoroaster, founder of Mazdeism or Zoroastrianism. Thus Spoke Zarathustra - Wikipedia
Thus spoke Zarathustra. A book for everyone and nobody.
A book written between 1883 and 1885 by the German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche, considered his masterpiece.
A prophet named Zarathustra, a character inspired by Zoroaster, founder of Mazdeism or Zoroastrianism.
Friedrich Nietzsche claimed in his work his hyperborean condition, beyond known limits, as opposed to the homogeneous thought of the time on moral and philosophical issues. Nietzsche referred to his sympathetic readers as Hyperboreans in The Antichrist (written in 1888, published in 1895):
Let's look at each other. We are Hyperboreans; we know very well how remote our home is.
He quoted Pindar and added:
Beyond the north, beyond the ice, beyond death; our life, our happiness.
The book is a critique of Christianity as a whole, and of modern concepts such as egalitarianism and democracy, which he sees as a persistent consequence of Christian ideals.
In the introduction, the philosopher announces that he is addressing a minority capable of understanding ("This book is made for very few readers. Perhaps none of them are alive yet. Those could be the ones who understand my Zarathustra: do I have the right? to be confused with those to whom attention is paid today? What belongs to me is the day after tomorrow. Some men are born posthumous ”). Nietzsche's ethics in this last period is closely linked to the will to power.
The Antichrist (book) - Wikipedia


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## Onijunbei (Jun 7, 2021)

I got another one... 
In astrology, scorpio has 3 avatars. The scorpion is level one 
The serpent is level two
The eagle, sometimes Phoenix is level three. 
Scorpio rules over the Occult, Mysteries, and hidden things.  It is the sign of sex, death, and transformation.


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## HELLBOY (Jun 7, 2021)

Onijunbei said:


> I got another one...
> In astrology, scorpio has 3 avatars. The scorpion is level one
> The serpent is level two
> The eagle, sometimes Phoenix is level three.
> Scorpio rules over the Occult, Mysteries, and hidden things.  It is the sign of sex, death, and transformation.


Thanks! you're right, it's quite related.


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## WhisperJack (Jun 20, 2021)

And never forget at the Battle at the Black Gate when the giant eagle Gwaihir the Windlord and his kinfolk attacked and disrupted the winged serpentine Nazgul.


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## Simon Ruszczak (Jul 1, 2021)

So Earth in the past was invaded by two species of aliens, one evolved from birds, and the other from reptiles.


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## BStankman (Jul 3, 2021)

Simon Ruszczak said:


> So Earth in the past was invaded by two species of aliens, one evolved from birds, and the other from reptiles.


Maybe, maybe not.

Bird eats snake.
Aztec legend states they came from Aztlan and  journeyed southward until they saw a sign from the gods.
The famous depiction on the Mexican flag and the founding of Tenochtitlan.  A land where the eagle could defeat the snake.

 
​Snake eats bird.
It is possible the Aztecs were were forced out of their Aztlan homeland by another civilization?
The mound builders of Ohio and the East coast. Sometimes rumored to be red headed giants until the Smithsonian buried the evidence. The place where the snake ate the bird?

 ​


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## Potato (Jul 6, 2021)

I just finished watching "The Lost History of Flat Earth" video and according to the author the eagle, snake and griffon are alchemical symbols. Any nation using this symbol of eagle eating snake meant they possessed the ancient technology of harnessing electricity from the aether.

Just throwing one more theory into the ring.


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## The Giver (Jul 7, 2021)

The "snake" or "dragon" is a representation of a comet, while bird of prey - often double-headed - is a symbol of planet Jupiter. A comet of colossal size was wreaking havoc in the sky and on Earth - destroying social, political and economic order - by causing disasters all over the world, hence associated with evil, until it had an interaction with planet Jupiter, which resulted in plasma formation coming from Jupiter in the sky in the shape that people associated with a bird of prey - only double-headed - hence Jupiter became associated with an image of a bird of prey. After Jupiter's interaction with a comet - interpreted by people as the "dragon" or "snake" - tail of the comet became separated and fell down to Earth with water and debris, which destroyed the comet, ending the times of chaos in the sky and on Earth, thus bird of prey - Jupiter - has won the battle. Then people adopted the bird of prey symbol - Jupiter's plasma formation - and started propagating it, that is why you can sometimes see in history two groups fighting between each other, while bearing the same symbol on their flags, shields, breastplates etc. It was symbol of "god" to them, which they worshiped and hoped to win the battle just like the source of the symbol - planet Jupiter - won against the enemy - comet symbolized as a snake or dragon. That's why cultures all over the world have a bird killing the snake motif.


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## HollyHoly (Jul 31, 2021)

so far as regards serpents and birds Im going with the heraldic interpretation  which would be  the Eagle, Holy Roman empire and  its colonies subsidiaries et al, meets  eastern Dragon empire and its colonies and subsidiaries in Meso America and falls in love and absorb one another to become the one  empire to rule them all  The  Land of the Feathered Serpent, bird becomes snake, snake becomes bird ,your worst nightmare as a form of govt


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## Ouroboros226 (May 4, 2022)

Quick question here: Any supporting evidence for all these half-human half-animal hybrids or sentient animal looking creatures being the result of ancient high technology relating to genetics and DNA splicing? I recall a youtube video of an indian explorer showing the DNA strand on an ancient hindu temple. The similarity was exact.   

Also. A dream could just be a dream. But in a dream I had where I was looking at Egypt from high up I saw those bearded sumerian looking dudes(those with the handbags) walking around with animal bottoms (like centaurs). I expected to see them as constructs/machines, not as ACTUAL organic lifeforms. 

I didn't have time to go through it all right now so I apologize if this has already been discussed. Is it really that far off to think ancient civilizations with their (but different to ours) technology actually created spliced hybrid species and that these were some of the mythical monsters?


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## HELLBOY (May 5, 2022)

Ouroboros226 said:


> Quick question here: Any supporting evidence for all these half-human half-animal hybrids or sentient animal looking creatures being the result of ancient high technology relating to genetics and DNA splicing? I recall a youtube video of an indian explorer showing the DNA strand on an ancient hindu temple. The similarity was exact.
> 
> Also. A dream could just be a dream. But in a dream I had where I was looking at Egypt from high up I saw those bearded sumerian looking dudes(those with the handbags) walking around with animal bottoms (like centaurs). I expected to see them as constructs/machines, not as ACTUAL organic lifeforms.
> 
> I didn't have time to go through it all right now so I apologize if this has already been discussed. Is it really that far off to think ancient civilizations with their (but different to ours) technology actually created spliced hybrid species and that these were some of the mythical monsters?


I don't know about any theory but I wanted to share something with you, it is supposed that in the Arab mythology, there are so called genies and they can transform themselves at will into whatever they want.
The interesting thing is that wiki gives us these men of the pineapples.
Is that why in those lands they insist on destroying these archaeological sites? because they consider them diabolical in their culture?
Jinn - Wikipedia


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## Akanah (May 5, 2022)

The reference to an eagle being able to eat a snake leads me to another thought. Perhaps the eagle stood for Rome and the snake stood for the Jewish god who was also depicted as a white snake. Someone referred to the Jewish people as viper-bred because they worshiped a white serpent as their god. This white snake may well have been identical to Quetzalcoatl. But behind Quetzalcoatl himself I also suspect the fish-man-god Oannes/Ea, who is supposed to have brought culture to the people. By the way, the name Oannes could have something to do with the names John and be an allusion to "John the Baptist", whereby a baptism can be carried out rather by a fish being than by a snake. The scales of a snake can well be confused with the scales of a fish.


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## TheSpectacleIsYou (May 6, 2022)

What you have to understand about animal symbols is that they are characters, much in the way that Mickey Mouse is a character, and Donald Duck is a character. If you saw a picture of Mickey Mouse holding a dead Donald Duck's leg in his mouth, it forces you to either sympathize with Mickey Mouse or sympathize with Donald Duck. If you sympathize with Mickey Mouse (the eagle) then you'd wonder what evil deed did Donald do to deserve Mickey killing him for dinner, is it that Donald is weak and Mickey is justified in eating him? If you sympathize with Donald, you will wonder why Mickey is such an evil predator that he would kill his friend Donald Duck and eat him.

The symbol itself represents a Hegellian system of thesis, anti-thesis and synthesis. The synthesis is you seeking to either excuse Mickey for his attack on Donald, or to attack Mickey for his crime against Donald. Either you're pro-Eagle or pro-Snake, there's no peaceful middle. Either you as a worker act in building Mickey's temple to help him seek out the Donalds to destroy them, or you build Donald's temple to defend against the evil Mickey tyrant. What you're not supposed to do, is say I don't care about the Eagle or the Snake because they're silly animals and I want to go play some dice today.

There may be a third representation, in that the Eagle is carrying his injured wife the Snake, and they will have a baby little Queztl later.

As for the Snake eating the Egg, I've heard two explanations on it which lead me to believe it's also a Hegelian system. If the egg is the egg of evil, the spawn of the devil, then the snake has saved humanity by identifying it and consuming it into itself, leaving humanity innocent. If the egg is the egg of an innocent, then the snake is evil because it is eating the young of other mammals, or even other snakes.


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## BernaysSauce (Jun 16, 2022)

Personally, I think the snake represents the land dwellers, the public, the farmers, the peasantry. I don't think you can discount the orientation of snakes via 'vibes', intuition of sorts.

The eagle would be those that have made it to the top of the mountain. Those that live up in the 'gods'. With such a great vantage point, the land before them and all of the snakes that inhabit it can be seen and studied, stalked, until the time comes to 'feed'. 

Snakes being very much representated by the colour green, as were the 'poor' people of Constantinople. Royal purple being the colour of the 'nobility'. The eagle, in his red, white, and blue, is truly purple. 

I may be way off, it may be the case that I've lost my mind to the ol' mindflayer, perhaps I'm just paranoid, but I don't think that's the case at all.


BernaysSauce said:


> Personally, I think the snake represents the land dwellers, the public, the farmers, the peasantry. I don't think you can discount the orientation of snakes via 'vibes', intuition of sorts.
> 
> The eagle would be those that have made it to the top of the mountain. Those that live up in the 'gods'. With such a great vantage point, the land before them and all of the snakes that inhabit it can be seen and studied, stalked, until the time comes to 'feed'.
> 
> ...


What came first? The big fat chicken in the sky? or was the big fat chickens egg swallowed by the useless eaters, slithering around, down there, upon the ground?


BernaysSauce said:


> Personally, I think the snake represents the land dwellers, the public, the farmers, the peasantry. I don't think you can discount the orientation of snakes via 'vibes', intuition of sorts.
> 
> The eagle would be those that have made it to the top of the mountain. Those that live up in the 'gods'. With such a great vantage point, the land before them and all of the snakes that inhabit it can be seen and studied, stalked, until the time comes to 'feed'.
> 
> ...


If we mix purple and green, we could be left with a real grey area


BernaysSauce said:


> Personally, I think the snake represents the land dwellers, the public, the farmers, the peasantry. I don't think you can discount the orientation of snakes via 'vibes', intuition of sorts.
> 
> The eagle would be those that have made it to the top of the mountain. Those that live up in the 'gods'. With such a great vantage point, the land before them and all of the snakes that inhabit it can be seen and studied, stalked, until the time comes to 'feed'.
> 
> ...


Take a look at the domesticated dove, or, if you'd rather, the humble pigeon.
Theres also;
 the snake = base instinct
The eagle = rises above, transcending those instincts.

But does it, really?  Cosmic egg, eats the cosmic egg, births the cosmic egg (one way or another).

I'll stop now for a while.


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