# King Billy the Roman



## Silent Bob (Dec 3, 2020)

This thread was inspired by a recent story in my local newspaper, which included a piece about our statue of King William III or 'King Billy' as he was often known. The article explains that it was supposed to look like a Roman soldier, as if this is obvious.... Why would they make him look like an ancient Roman, they don't even address this point!

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/history/hidden-story-king-billy-statue-3869325
'Installed in 1734, the sculpture features what appears to be a Roman emperor sat astride a horse. The Roman theme was the idea of sculptor Peter Scheemakers, but an inscription on the front of the statue reveals the true identity of the rider above. It says: "This statue was erected in the year 1734 to the memory of King William the Third our Great Deliverer".
















He was also known as Prince William of Orange - he doesn't look very ancient Roman in his portrait.....









also, 'old world' toilets underneath the statue, these also have that ancient Roman look about them, interesting.





So what is going on here? Why sculpt a statue of such a famous person that looks nothing like them in reality?

Did 'King Billy' really look like the statue, with the other images we see being created to suit the narrative? It would be easier to falsify images than 300 hundred year old statues I imagine! Or did they re-purpose an existing statue, of someone completely different, and simply add the plaque we see today?

Meanwhile, here are two more statues of King Billy in Belfast (left) and Brixham (middle) with Hull (right). Would the real King Billy please stand up!









A similar things is seen for William Wilberforce, who has a monument







Lets see what he actually looked like,









Was this just a weird tradition they had when making statues, to look nothing like the person? Here's another two statues of Wilberforce, they seemed to manage!









Still, it is harder to see it so high up making it easier to get away with! Another re-purposed statue of someone we're not supposed to remember?


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## Jd755 (Dec 3, 2020)

The Prince William of Orange said to be party to the battle of Waterloo was affectionately known as 'silly billy' amongst the British officers and soldiers, at least according to the 'official histories' I've come across.

The bottom trio of 'William Wilberforce' is the middle one channelling Winston?


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## Silent Bob (Dec 3, 2020)

kd-755 said:


> The Prince William of Orange said to be party to the battle of Waterloo was affectionately known as 'silly billy' amongst the British officers and soldiers, at least according to the 'official histories' I've come across.
> 
> The bottom trio of 'William Wilberforce' is the middle one channelling Winston?



Yeah, I thought he looked a built like Churchill in that one. The old 'Bull dog chewing a wasp' look was popular back then


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## Jd755 (Dec 3, 2020)

Billy in Bristol again in what we are told is Roman garb.



Source

In London once again cast as a Roman.



_The equestrian statue of King William III in St James's Square, London, 1808_​Source

In Dublin once more in Roman garb



A woodcut engraving depicting the Dublin volunteers saluting the statue of King William III on College Green, November 4th, 1798.​
Source

Were these various sculptors basing their work on this sculptors earlier William?
Or did the sculptor of the earlier William copy the King Billy in Roman garb productions?




William, son of Robert, Duke of Normandy and Herleva of Falaise, was born in 1027​
Source

Here is another shot of the Dublin statue and some info on what happened to it.



Source







> This September 1882 print shows a mob attacking the statue of King William of Orange which stood on College Green, outside Ireland’s historic parliament. The monument predated the parliament building, and was ultimately bombed in the 1920s.


Source


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## Silent Bob (Dec 3, 2020)

So most of the statues depict him as ancient roman whilst his portraits portrayed him looking more like Brian May in the video 'It's a hard life'






or in this completey different style, but still nothing Roman about him








More Roman Statues in Glasgow, Petersfield, and London





 



Makes no sense at all, especially given the official narrative surrounding him:

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/...r-have-gone-racing-at-newmarket-35911384.html
'William was undoubtedly a military hero, who secured his kingdom in the hardest way possible by going into battle directly with King James, who was intent on imposing and solidifying Roman Catholicism on Britain and Ireland. ' - so he was fighting against the holy Roman empire for the protestants......

Painted out to be a good guy here, who knows?

https://vheyblog.wordpress.com/2013/08/17/historic-east-yorkshire-king-billys-statue/
'There was much greater religious freedom following the events of 1688 although this tolerance was not extended to Catholics who left the town in large numbers. But the 1688 revolution was really a victory for the merchant classes, protestant, prosperous and politically liberal. Never again would monarchs be able to lay down the law; from now on, they would be answerable to the people, or at least the small proportion who then had the vote.'

Another odd coincidence about a story claiming the sculpter commited suicide after forgetting something on the statue. 

The Hull version:

'An interesting aside here is the legend surrounding the sculptor of the gilded king. It is widely believed that the artist, a Dutchman by the name of Peter Scheemaker, committed suicide when he realised he’d omitted the king’s stirrups. The slightly less dramatic truth is that the statue was clearly designed to show King Billy riding in the classical style – ie bareback – and that the sculptor actually died of old age the best part of fifty years later.'

Dublin Version:

'My oul fella used to say that the statue of Lord Gough was famous because the sculptor realised when he finished it that he’d left out the horses tongue and committed suicide. This seems to be a bit of Dublin folklore because I’ve heard it repeated many times over the years.' 

What an odd story to be repeated, wonder if there's other versions? Reminds me about the Denver airport story where the sculpter actually dies whilst finishing his horse.


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## Whitewave (Dec 4, 2020)

Silent Bob said:


> A similar things is seen for William Wilberforce, who has a monument
> Lets see what he actually looked like,
> 
> View attachment 3612View attachment 3613View attachment 3614
> ...


In the first picture he has a cleft chin. In the  second picture he has a widow's peak hairline that he is lacking in the first. In the  third picture he is missing both the widow's peak and the cleft chin.
Not the same guy.


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## Deleted member 65 (Dec 4, 2020)

I'm actually more interested in the  William Wilberforce statue. Why is he depicted as an Oriental man?

I would thing King William III's Roman statue is just actual look. As according to the Historia Regum Britanniae (the original King Arthur story), the British descended from Troy, who are to an extension the predecessors of Romans. However William III is a Dutch man, who have a different origin.


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## Felix Noille (Dec 4, 2020)

The unofficial history of 'King Billy' may shed some light as to why he was so important to certain parties that he had to be portrayed as a hero, when in fact he was completely the opposite.
https://stolenhistory.net/threads/the-betrayal-of-albion-part-6-the-glorious-revolution.1669/


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## Jd755 (Dec 4, 2020)

It seems when it comes to statues being sculpted of the dead, which most of those in the thread seem to be, the sculptor either worked off of older statues but more often paintings. There is also the skill of the artist/sculptor to consider. All imagery of a human is a likeness, even ones made from living subjects.
Some may be very accurate likenesses others piss poor I do wonder if the piss poor ones simply get renamed before they are put on display.


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## Silent Bob (Jan 8, 2021)

As an extension of people not looking like we expect, how about King James - the bible editing King, how do you picture him? Now look at these portraits, is that how you expected an English King from 400 hundred years ago to look?











He was the son of Mary Queen of Scots who was depicted like this, along with his daughter (right)







So now I'm wondering if Britain was part of the Moor empire as recently as the 1600's before being conquered by the Romans late 1600's by King Billy the Roman. 

Lets look at the background:

https://www.thepatriot.co.zw/old_posts/king-james-was-black-part-one/
'KING James the 1st of England was originally King James the 6th of Scotland.

He was the son of a black father and a coloured mother both of royal blood. Without the necessary background, this may sound like a far-fetched story motivated by a crazy desire to identify black heroes in world history.

We should not forget, however, that after the Moors settled in Spain and southern Europe in 711 CE, significant numbers of black people found their way into northern European countries such as Scotland, Ireland, France and Denmark.

The nations of Scotland and Ireland were, since the beginning of the first millennium, had significant numbers of blacks, who in Scotland, wielded political power as the kings and rulers.

It is also from the preponderance of black people in Ireland in medieval period that the term ‘black Irish’ has continued to be used to this day.'

'Very quickly, he became an ally of England and an enemy of the Catholic Church. Once England and Scotland were cooperating with each other, France could not do much against the Scotts on behalf of the Catholics. This angered authorities of the Roman Catholic Church because the church had lost its dominion over the northern territories of Europe.'

Also, an interesting comment on the white population of Scotland at the time...

'The Caucasian whites who were once known as barbarians had a bad history with the Catholic Church and had been exploited and treated as less than humans by the Roman popes and priests for over 1 000 years.' - was it 1000 years or had it just started?


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## Jd755 (Jan 8, 2021)

Silent Bob said:


> It is also from the preponderance of black people in Ireland in medieval period that the term ‘black Irish’ has continued to be used to this day.'


Might be why the Black and Tans were so called. The real history of The Black and Tans in Ireland


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## Whitewave (Jan 10, 2021)

The races of previous people in Europe were not the main take-away in this interesting post for me. 
Granted, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed but I had no idea that Scotland was ever called Hibernia.


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## Silent Bob (Jan 11, 2021)

Whitewave said:


> The races of previous people in Europe were not the main take-away in this interesting post for me.
> Granted, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed but I had no idea that Scotland was ever called Hibernia.



Hibernia is a name I'm familiar with but only recently did I think of it in relation to Hyperboria. I think there's a good chance the Hyperborians/Atlateans moved down from the North pole to Scotland as the land there became submerged. Also Ireland, known as the 'Emerald isle' supposedly due to its green grass, I suspect could have been closer to the north pole once (or at least its inhabitants were). In the good old mercator map we all know so well now, below, most assume that the island simply called 'island' became 'Iceland' but what if it became 'Ireland' and frisland is what we now call 'Iceland'? I wonder if the Emerald Isle name is to do with the Northern Lights/auroras which are Emerald in colour. The Irish had a great system in place with no government for a very long time before they had our current system forcibly imposed upon them.


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## wild heretic (Feb 10, 2021)

If I had to guess, I'd say your latter option is correct, that the statue was already there and they repurposed it. I doubt Wilberforce looked and dressed like Confucius.


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## Knowncitizen (Feb 10, 2021)

Whitewave said:


> The races of previous people in Europe were not the main take-away in this interesting post for me.
> Granted, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed but I had no idea that Scotland was ever called Hibernia.


I'm confused how Scotland is Hibernia, Ireland has always been known as Hibernia on old maps.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernia


https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/se...ub_list_no,series_no;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=4&trs=7


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## wild heretic (Feb 10, 2021)

Silent Bob said:


> Whitewave said:
> 
> 
> > The races of previous people in Europe were not the main take-away in this interesting post for me.
> ...



I don't think so as Island looks very similar to modern Iceland, at least the general features. However I have an inkling that the survivors from Frisland emigrated to Ireland/Scotland/England etc. (especially Ireland) after it sank. I'm thinking of the 1400/1500s period when the first resemblance of modern English appeared (Shakespeare). Also, many Irish look Norwegian which might link to Frisland.


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## Knowncitizen (Feb 10, 2021)

wild heretic said:


> Silent Bob said:
> 
> 
> > Whitewave said:
> ...


The Irish have a unique look for sure, I can spot a fellow Irish person from 100 yards.


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