# Placa España Star City in Spain



## JWW427 (Sep 21, 2020)

Some "old world" architecture to marvel at.
Barcelona was once a star city with star forts.
Enjoy!



_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDdnLlPG-5w_


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## Broken Agate (Oct 3, 2020)

A few years ago, I wasn't even aware of star forts. Then a few started popping up in videos. Now  there are millions of them, in every part of the world, even on remote islands or in the middle of deserts and wilderness regions. Most are in some level of decay, but a few were preserved. I wonder who decided which ones to save, and why.


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## JWW427 (Oct 3, 2020)

They made good forts on occasion, the many battle illustrations from back in the day a clue. But were they forts originally? Or civilian structures expensively converted with heavy masonry, barracks, and cannon embrasures for war?
But when studied as a worldwide city and fort "system," another concept emerges, one that makes the official narrative very questionable.
The earthen ones in fields that remain only as vague outlines are telling, so are the fortifications in the remote deserts.
Why build entire cities and towns inside when mortars and howitzers can decimate the finely-made buildings and unprotected residents?
Mortars were first introduced in 1453. It makes no sense.




St. Malo is a "fairly tale" town. Why is all this old world architecture referred to in this way?


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## Broken Agate (Oct 3, 2020)

At 44:36, he shows an old map of the Placa España. As is typical of many star forts, there is a smaller one off to the side. Sometimes, there will be a little one _inside_ the big one, or embedded into the outer wall; or there will be multiple forts in a cluster or lined up along a river.

Now, if these things are meant for defense, what exactly are they defending, and how? They seem to be in locations where defense really wasn't the main concern, and perhaps not even an issue. In this case, you have TWO forts to defend from invaders...who, very conveniently, will only ever attack at that precise point along the river and nowhere else. 

Oh, and let's not forget that each structure took a long time to make. What were the enemies doing during that time? Why wouldn't they attack while the population were busy building the forts? ?


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## JWW427 (Oct 3, 2020)

There were long periods of peace, and armies of those times moved slow. But still...

As for military history, I can't figure out why so many forts and fortified cities were needed, and no one can tell me anything different other than what's in the books, which I am reading now. Were there really that many wars? Most forts and cities never saw a shot fired, and there are few indications of cannon damage on forts today. (Repairs can be seen as different stone or brick color).

On old maps there are thousands and thousands of them. Why were they so complex and Byzantine? So polygonal? Why the differing ravelins, demilunes, moats, contra guards, curtain walls, bastion types and other etcetera? It's mind boggling. I'm attempting to understand all of the mainstream information on them, and no, there are no explanations in any of the English and French books on why which shape was chosen, or how it was done. No architectural plans with measurements exist so far, and Ive studied architecture and engineering. Something's amiss big time.

See the illustration of point bastion designs below? There are NO explanations as to why one is better than another, or why such a shape is effective for defense or blind spot "killing zones" of crossfire. They are artistic in nature.



I will be posting my complete "star fort book report" as a PDF file soon if the moderators give it the Go sign. I'll run it by Dreamtime first.
As far as I can tell, none of the YT channels who investigate this issue are military historians, and few have read any of the books. No offense to them, but heavy lifting is needed here. This is a 16 inch smoking naval gun of our stolen history. No one can hide it.


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## Broken Agate (Oct 3, 2020)

JWW427 said:


> Why were they so complex and Byzantine? So polygonal? Why the differing ravelins, demilunes, moats, contra guards, curtain walls, bastion types and other etcetera? It's mind boggling.



It is, indeed, and there is never an explanation of why these forts are shaped as they are. Some are beautiful and perfect, like a snowflake or a many-pointed star. Others were obviously meant to follow the contours of the landscape, while still others are seemingly random in their configuration. Why? We aren't told. 

I'd like to see an actual military strategist with a background in architecture design a fort, and see what they would come up with. How many such men can there be, anyway? Well, in the past, the world was lousy with them, apparently.


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## Starman (Oct 3, 2020)

Not sure if there's a general star fort/star civilization thread set up in this SH 2.0 version yet, but thought I'd point to a good resource of a web site put together by Fenton:

https://www.starciv.org/


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## _harris (Oct 5, 2020)

i gotta chip in on this, Placa Espagna is NOT actually where that huge starfort is! (circled it on attached image)

The starfort sits over the "Gothic Quarter" and the fancy marinas/ old harbour, you can still see the shape of it when looking at a map, I;ve drawn it out.

Coicidentally, they have a monument column where the south corner of the starfort sat, and an Arc de Triomphe where the North corner would be.... and nearly the entirety of the Gothic Quarter was demolished and rebuild in the 19thC.... hmmmmm

also, the smaller starfort is called Montjuic Castle, it's still there, I've been there twice, it's on top of a rocky/cliffy prominence and definitely appears to have had the sea-cliff corner destroyed/removed!

[he also points to a structure on the mountain behind- the Tibidabo (not made it there yet), a cathedral on a very high hill!! with a fun park next to it, of course!]

anyways, Barcelona is a crazy city (in many ways), i had the feeling that the official history is not quite right!
all the "18thC" city centre construction appears made for giants, 3-4m high doorways, etc, virtually megalithic "government" buildings, you know the score!


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## Citezenship (Oct 5, 2020)

JWW427 said:


> They made good forts on occasion, the many battle illustrations from back in the day a clue. But were they forts originally? Or civilian structures expensively converted with heavy masonry, barracks, and cannon embrasures for war?
> But when studied as a worldwide city and fort "system," another concept emerges, one that makes the official narrative very questionable.
> The earthen ones in fields that remain only as vague outlines are telling, so are the fortifications in the remote deserts.
> Why build entire cities and towns inside when mortars and howitzers can decimate the finely-made buildings and unprotected residents?
> ...


It is possibly the strangest phenom of modern times for me, take this one in the middle of nowhere in Kazakhstan, I have thought about the how ,where and why but come up short!


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## _harris (Oct 5, 2020)

Citezenship said:


> It is possibly the strangest phenom of modern times for me, take this one in the middle of nowhere in Kazakhstan, I have though about the how where and why but come up short!


i accidentally found starforts in Africa just the other day, whilst looking at historical places!


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## Citezenship (Oct 5, 2020)

If you have them pinned like above please share, although i think a new thread will be needed as i don't want to derail this one!

I think i will start a thread with the .KMZ files i have, if i can figure out how to get them out of GE!


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## JWW427 (Oct 5, 2020)

The one above in Kazakhstan may indicate geologic time having passed, i.e: many thousands of years. Its a possibility.
Perhaps all star forts started out as earthworks, then were modified with masonry armor.
Another very strange anomaly is why an architect would skew a fort into an odd shape. Militaries like to build things as symmetrical and simple as possible.


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## Citezenship (Oct 5, 2020)

JWW427 said:


> The one above in Kazakhstan may indicate geologic time having passed, i.e: many thousands of years. Its a possibility.
> Perhaps all star forts started out as earthworks, then were modified with masonry armor.
> Another very strange anomaly is why an architect would skew a fort into an odd shape. Militaries like to build things as symmetrical and simple as possible.
> 
> View attachment 884View attachment 885


This is why i think they are built as wave interruptors and may go that far back(the flood).

this is the surrounding area in K, looks like the fort was there first and if we are to trust the geologists then many many years have past to get that kind of terrain!


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## Felix Noille (Oct 6, 2020)

Built for the* International Exposition of 1929*, the Plaza de España (Castellano Spanish, 'Plaça d'Espanya' in Catalan Spanish) of Barcelona is one of the largest and most significant of the Catalan Capital.

What the narrator calls a "Colosseum" was a bullring that opened in 1900, but was extensively remodelled into a shopping mall in 2011 known as the Centro Comercial Las Arenas. *Link here* for construction photos.

The "towers of Joachim and Boaz" (which were pillars, not towers) are  'Los Campaniles' which were inspired by the bell tower of St. Mark's in Venice.

The "weird, inhuman" fountain in the centre is a classically inspired monument representing a poetic allegory of Spain.

Barcelona is quite a modern city in comparison to Madrid or Granada for example. That's why the greater part of it shows 'modern' design features such as buildings and streets arranged in rectangular blocks.

AutoDidactic 2's idea of "Moorish" is totally off. It's a shame, because with even just a little bit of research it could have been worth watching.

Links:
https://www.disfrutabarcelona.com/plaza-espanahttps://www.abc.es/archivo/monograf...ambio-barcelona-202005200144_monografico.html


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## _harris (Oct 6, 2020)

Felix Noille said:


> Built for the* International Exposition of 1929*, the Plaza de España (Castellano Spanish, 'Plaça d'Espanya' in Catalan Spanish) of Barcelona is one of the largest and most significant of the Catalan Capital.


it's a shame he didn't get his geography right, as Gothic Quarter is the original location of the large fort, amd retains the original shape also! and that place has some interesting parts of ancient structures, the rest having been *destroyed* and rebuilt during the 1920s!

	Post automatically merged: Oct 6, 2020

tbh looks like most of the city had that happen to it... how much effort?!?!


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## luchin001 (Oct 7, 2020)

and if they are not strong for combat and if the star shape had something to do with the distribution of energies or waves that made possible something else that we do not know or that we have not yet achieved the level of technology to understand.
We are thinking like our scientists that everything ancient is associated with temples, religion or war and if not?


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