# Army Corps of Engineers - benign builders or history erasers?



## trismegistus (Sep 14, 2020)

I came across this topic on Wiki earlier this afternoon.  It is about a cave in Idaho that at one point connected to some larger cave systems, until it was blocked off by the army corps of engineers - ostensibly for no reason that I can find.

Anecdotally, here in Northwest Arkansas there is a fairly large corps of engineers body of water.  It also happens to sit smack-dab on top of old Osage indian territory.  I have been out there myself and seen many trail trees, not to mention the area is likely littered with undiscovered cave systems (it is the Ozarks, after all).

Could these man-made lakes be placed specifically to discourage further research into underground cave systems?  I've also had the thought that filling an area with water would also obscure any sort of archaeological findings. 

Admittedly this is not a fully developed "theory" of any sort, so feel free to develop these threads as you see fit.





> Note: This OP was recovered from the Wayback Archive.





> Note: Archived Sh.org replies to this OP are included in this thread.


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: SearchingDate: 2018-11-01 20:19:00Reaction Score: 6




trismegistus said:


> I came across this topic on Wiki earlier this afternoon.  It is about a cave in Idaho that at one point connected to some larger cave systems, until it was blocked off by the army corps of engineers - - ostensibly for no reason that I can find.
> 
> Anecdotally, here in Northwest Arkansas there is a fairly large corps of engineers body of water.  It also happens to sit smack-dab on top of old Osage indian territory.  I have been out there myself and seen many trail trees, not to mention the area is likely littered with undiscovered cave systems (it is the Ozarks, after all).
> 
> ...


There are numerous examples of towns being intentionally flooded. The cover story for many is a hydroelectric dam.
Drowned Towns: 10 Underwater Ghost Cities & Buildings

I definitely think history is being intentionally "submerged".


----------



## trismegistus (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: trismegistusDate: 2018-11-01 20:29:44Reaction Score: 1




> Ten communities in the Canadian province of Ontario are underwater after the creation of the Saint Lawrence Seaway in 1958. Referred to as the ‘Lost Villages of Ontario,’ they are still mostly intact. Divers can follow the old roads and sidewalks of the towns, which include Aultsville, Maple Grove, Farran’s Point and Mille Roches, and in some areas, building foundations can be seen from the surface of the water. Some communities were relocated rather than abandoned altogether, and many materials from the lost villages are preserved in a nearby museum.


Also another area with heavy Native American activity in the past.  That being said, what they built is nothing particularly special insofar as wooden lodges and dwellings wouldn't hide any secrets.  Maybe its the burial grounds that are of particular importance to cover up...


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: ISeenItFirstDate: 2018-11-01 21:30:24Reaction Score: 3


I don't know of they are in on anything, but in my experience, they are anything but benign.  The only organization in this vein I can think of that is more inept is the architect of the capitol.  Worse than worthless, that lot.  

I wish I could recall some specific examples, but it's been at least a decade since I last dealt with either. 

If their main task were something along these lines, hiding history, their incompetence may work for them in many cases, and cover their tracks in others.


----------



## trismegistus (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: trismegistusDate: 2018-11-02 14:49:26Reaction Score: 3




ISeenItFirst said:


> I don't know of they are in on anything, but in my experience, they are anything but benign.


Yeah, I think the way I view them is either useful idiots or they are so compartmentalized that they wouldn't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

Basically, everywhere they leave their mark is suspect to investigation in my eyes.

_@ISeenItFirst_ since you had some dealings with them in the past, maybe you can answer this question.  I know that when regular construction crews are working and end up finding what could be a historical or archaeological discovery, they have to shut down until it can be investigated.  Does the Army Corps of Engineers have to follow the same guidelines?  If not, then its no wonder they are suspicious.

Here's a fun story I found while digging around about the Ozarks.  The story is pretty unbelievable but it has a few interesting nuggets related to some of my favorite topics (hollow earth, pre-diluvian civilizations, etc).  If this is too off-topic for this thread I can post it elsewhere, as it might be worthy of a separate discussion.


> * THE DEEP CAVERNS OF CUSHMAN ARKANSAS    *
> Excerpt from branton's THE UNDERGROUND EMPIRE
> Sent in by Ted Loman
> 
> ...


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: ISeenItFirstDate: 2018-11-03 13:08:34Reaction Score: 2




trismegistus said:


> Yeah, I think the way I view them is either useful idiots or they are so compartmentalized that they wouldn't know their ass from a hole in the ground.
> 
> Basically, everywhere they leave their mark is suspect to investigation in my eyes.
> 
> ...


Great question.  My response comes more from my metal detectorists hobby than it does from construction, but I'll try to touch on that too.  

It depends who owns the land.  Then it depends on state law.  If it's federal, they are strictly no go zones when it comes to that stuff.  You don't even want to find something archeological or historical on federal land by accident, for fear of prosecution.  If you found something building, yes you'd have to call in the archies.  Could be different organization depending on what is found.  Then each state is different.  Here they have some historical preservation board or something similar you would have to call.  My county is even more restrictive, forbidding any looking on county lands as well.  

I stopped by a park I always wanted to metal detect for a bit once, and was finding tons of change amid the trash.  I remember thinking, no one is detecting here, why the he'll haven't I been coming here more often?  A guy had been watching me for a while and he finally approached me, and said, "You got some big ass balls huh?". I said "what!?"  He said, You didn't read the sign?  Then I remembered why I never hit that park.  It is just inside the county line.  I played dumb and got the heck outta there.  They are that strict out here.  

As for the engineers corpse, it would not surprise me in the least if they had at minimum organizational ties with said Archie historical boards, and possibly employ the very same archies that run those boards on their staff.  This way when that call gets made, it goes to a compartment of themselves.  I think that organization knows how not to build where stuff will be found for the most part, but few if any actually actually know why they have the restrictions they do.  

That part being pure speculation, but would be more or less standard echo chamber subterfuge around these parts.  The appearance of wide consensus, but with everything compartmentalized and not very many seeing beyond their own cubicle (compartment).  

The final bit, is most guys on the job want to get the thing done.  Many things found are classified as leaverite (where you found it) or forgotusawium.  Sometimes maybe it was found at home and brought in as a joke.  Wink wink.  Not very funny, take it back home.  You get the idea.  

A recent construction site here found a few old human remains.  It became a big deal and it was an interesting case, but I forgot most of the details.  It was in between being a case for the archies or a case for the cops.


----------



## Timeshifter (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: TimeshifterDate: 2019-07-27 15:28:04Reaction Score: 0


A great way to erase history, and or stop the investigation of it.

Maybe not idiots, but compartmentalized specialists.


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Red BirdDate: 2019-07-27 16:03:54Reaction Score: 5


The reason fromone of my favorite movies


----------



## Maxine (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: MaxineDate: 2019-07-27 16:36:58Reaction Score: 1




Searching said:


> There are numerous examples of towns being intentionally flooded. The cover story for many is a hydroelectric dam.
> Drowned Towns: 10 Underwater Ghost Cities & Buildings
> 
> I definitely think history is being intentionally "submerged".


I have visited such a place a few days ago - Novosibirsk Reservoir - Wikipedia


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Ice NineDate: 2019-07-27 18:04:13Reaction Score: 2


It happened a lot, submerging towns.  We go to Kosmos whenever the lake gets exceptionally low.  Eminent Domain, whenever the goobermint wants, take your pick,  state or local or federal, they can just take it. If they want to widen a road, build a new road, or make a new damn, the property owner is SOL.  They will pay you for it, and you have to do it.

Kosmos a submerged town


----------

