# The mystery of Tilbury fort



## Citezenship (Dec 29, 2020)

So this is one of the star forts that really puzzles me,

Tilbury fort

It sits on the bank of the Thames river in gravesend,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravesend
What gets me most is that i can not figure out what came first, the fort or the river!

Some pics of the fort and the surrounding area which to me might be part of the overall complex.








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I feel that the fort has been truncated to fit the bank of the river, but yet there are some more pics of the other side of the river with another fort,










Then we have the surrounding area which have some more forts or i should say what used to be forts,




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Some repurposed forts, i now they used to be forts and can provide some info on how.








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And then we have this last one which more just a theory of my own that these quarry's are old forts that have been dug out, why else would they in the outline of what we know as star forts, in fact i thing most quarry's are what is left of star forts because the had really great materials in side them/underneath them.






So the question that is begging to be answered is what came first the river, then why not build the forts a little more inland so to achieve proper symmetry and cohesion, or the forts, if it's the forts then it places their construction into a timeline we are not really familiar with because the river was here 2k years ago when the romans were here, in fact it is written that they sailed up it in AD43.

Very strange on many fronts and think the forts were there before the river and came to a very grave end in a time long long ago.

Thanks

Citizenship


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## usselo (Dec 29, 2020)

Citezenship said:


> So this is one of the star forts that really puzzles me,
> 
> Tilbury fort
> 
> ...


Nice work! Especially the relationship with subsequent quarries. I would like to see the other evidence you had for your suspicions. Though not if it distracts you from your research efforts.

The owners, extraction histories of those quarries might provide clues as to what was extracted. Though I'm guessing the extract will be described as sand or gravel only.

You probably know that 'halved' star forts often seem to be on coasts, estuaries, lakesides.

An elderly Lincolnshire archeaologist told me Boston, Lincolnshire, (52.974 deg N, 0.0214 deg W) had a medieval dyke . I've wondered if it was a star fort that was, again, halved.

I feel the Wakipedia reference page for Boston is riddled with hints and clues to the larger events that may have been part of the destruction/removal of these structures. The 1014 sea incursion and new course of the River Witham are pretty much euphemisms for the true extent of events. Anyway, might be worth checking to see if there are any commonalities with other east coast star forts you know of.


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## E.Bearclaw (Dec 29, 2020)

Gravesend is a strange place. Insanely Pocahontas's grave lives there. For what its worth, I would be inclined to think along the lines of if there are certain places in the Earth that are hotspots for energy, Gravesend is possibly one. 

In amongst those satellite places there is a place that I have had the fortune to visit. It is the Metropolitan Police Service Specialist Training Centre (for clarification, I don't work in law enforcement). It is a mini town, where riots are planned out and practiced. It has streets and houses, and dummy gunfights are practiced there. It is quite an impressive place. 

Here are some google images:

metropolitan police specialist training centre - Google zoeken

I would put forward the possibility - similar to how some point out that American Military Bases are based upon nodes of the world energy grid, that Gravesend possibly sits upon one of these. I would not also discard the possibility that this is why such a base currently exists there (it is actually outside the Met Police Jurisdiction).


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## Citezenship (Dec 29, 2020)

usselo said:


> Citezenship said:
> 
> 
> > So this is one of the star forts that really puzzles me,
> ...


I will take a look at Boston, the wiki gives an interesting snapshot so i bet it is even better than that so will be taking a further look.

I will also post up some pics later for why i think the quarry's are part of these things.

Funny that Bostonians made it to Boston MA and then built this, or maybe just stumbled upon it!



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## E.Bearclaw (Dec 29, 2020)

In terms of that event that may have led to the end of the Fort. A theory of the etymology behind the name Gravesend, is that it was where the dead from London were buried after the bubonic plague in 1665/1666. Although there are Domesday references to Gravesham, although that still begs the question of why GravesEND not GravesHAM.

There are other threads on this site discussing the possible agenda behind either the bubonic plague, and the fire of London. 

I would hazard a guess that there is a potential clue in there concerning WHEN the Fort may have met its grave end.


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## Timeshifter (Dec 29, 2020)

Arh, where would we/ History be without the Romans eh? ? 

Would not surprise me one bit if the Thames had arrived quite recently, and the star fort was there long before. 

I look forward to reading more on this idea ?


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## Citezenship (Dec 29, 2020)

E.Bearclaw said:


> Gravesend is a strange place. Insanely Pocahontas's grave lives there. For what its worth, I would be inclined to think along the lines of if there are certain places in the Earth that are hotspots for energy, Gravesend is possibly one.
> 
> In amongst those satellite places there is a place that I have had the fortune to visit. It is the Metropolitan Police Service Specialist Training Centre (for clarification, I don't work in law enforcement). It is a mini town, where riots are planned out and practiced. It has streets and houses, and dummy gunfights are practiced there. It is quite an impressive place.
> 
> ...



That is very interesting indeed, the Pocahotas thing is just plain weird but i am sure there is a connection somewhere.

Yes these grids always have a serpentine river running through them.

I will follow up with a reply about the met riot center shortly as i think that is part of the community of above structures and will tie in with why i think the quarry's are old forts or at least connected to them!
So my interest was peaked by a video by the starfort guy Colm Gibney where he showed one of the old forts the form a ring around Paris in various stages of undress, here it is in 2019 don't mind the pixelated area, i suspect it is a police/intel station but do keep in mind the general pattern of the fort and it's surrounding buildings

 48°49'1.26"N   2°16'5.41"E



​this is 2014



​2011 and it's foundations are bare



​2008 and we see where they stated out from





Now if we zoom out a little we get a bigger picture that this fort is part of a complex More pixelated stuff, this time a hospital, why a hospital is is given this treatment i do not know.



​This complex is part of an even bigger metropolitan area know as Paris which is to my mind a staggering and geometrically perfect example of artistic license and illustrates a complexity that we find hard to replicate today. Some may even call it geomancy.
Once again we have a serpentine river running through it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomancy#:~:text=Geomancy (Greek: γεωμαντεία, ",soil, rocks, or sand.




I get a little side tracked with the enormity of this phenomena because it just blows my mind, so in my next post i will get back to the Tilbury complex.













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## Jd755 (Dec 29, 2020)

A question. Do you have any access to ordnance survey maps or topography maps that predate the digital age whiich cover this area, or have you searched the lidar maps online as I'm sure lidar will have covered this part of the world?


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## Citezenship (Dec 29, 2020)

So back to Tilbury, so okay i may have overstepped myself stating i can prove that quarries are old star forts but that is what it intuitively feels like but yet a can't get rid of the feeling that the whole complex is connected but yet it does not really show up in the older maps.




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kd-755 said:


> A question. Do you have any access to ordnance survey maps or topography maps that predate the digital age whiich cover this area, or have you searched the lidar maps online as I'm sure lidar will have covered this part of the world?


I am just looking for such a thing to try to get some more info.


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## Jd755 (Dec 29, 2020)

Lidar here Bluesky Mapshop - Online GIS Data


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## Citezenship (Dec 29, 2020)

Citezenship said:


> So back to Tilbury, so okay i may have overstepped myself stating i can prove that quarries are old star forts but that is what it intuitively feels like but yet a can't get rid of the feeling that the whole complex is connected but yet it does not really show up in the older maps.
> 
> View attachment 4827
> ​
> ...


Thanks KD 755 you are a star(fort)



​This kinda confirms my suspicions that there is a bit more at play here.


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## Jd755 (Dec 29, 2020)

Ordnance survey here Detailed Old Victorian Ordnance Survey 6 inch to 1 mile Old Map (1888-1913)  , Tilbury, Essex Co-ordinates 51.459220, 0.359261


​Edit to add:
You'll love this one! Plan of Tilbury Fort


​Source site for these two maps Old Maps Online


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## Citezenship (Dec 29, 2020)

So if we move a little bit south we have a place called Chatham, basically a very well established military encampment and center of propaganda


kd-755 said:


> Ordnance survey here Detailed Old Victorian Ordnance Survey 6 inch to 1 mile Old Map (1888-1913)  , Tilbury, Essex Co-ordinates 51.459220, 0.359261
> View attachment 4830​Edit to add:
> You'll love this one! Plan of Tilbury Fort
> View attachment 4831​



Oh well that puts my theory of the quarry being an old fort but i enjoyed the journey none the less.



​But i have some new maps so all is not lost.

A little curio from that map is just off to the left is this very politically incorrectly named place,






E.Bearclaw said:


> In terms of that event that may have led to the end of the Fort. A theory of the etymology behind the name Gravesend, is that it was where the dead from London were buried after the bubonic plague in 1665/1666. Although there are Domesday references to Gravesham, although that still begs the question of why GravesEND not GravesHAM.
> 
> I don't know why but what comes to mind is this,
> 
> ...




I believe that the plague and the great fire of london 1666 was the 911 of it's time and was the catalyst to implement one of the tools that still binds us to this day, a revision of previous papal bulls called the

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cestui_que
A sibling of the papal bull Unum Sanctum, referred to as the most terrifying document in history

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unam_sanctam
The one that claims to own everything living and dead.


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## EUAFU (Dec 29, 2020)

I always think of the designs of these forts as an imitation of the basic configuration of a snowflake.


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## Citezenship (Dec 29, 2020)

EUAFU said:


> I always think of the designs of these forts as an imitation of the basic configuration of a snowflake.




​There is definitely a visual link, i also think that snowflakes have a relationship to the harmonic scales and cymatic's






kd-755 said:


> Ordnance survey here Detailed Old Victorian Ordnance Survey 6 inch to 1 mile Old Map (1888-1913)  , Tilbury, Essex Co-ordinates 51.459220, 0.359261
> View attachment 4830​Edit to add:
> You'll love this one! Plan of Tilbury Fort
> View attachment 4831​Source site for these two maps Old Maps Online



That is a fine pic that shows the river has eaten a portion of the fort!

Funny that the maps from the early part of the century do not show the forts on either side of the river, i guess they still had a military significance.

Source, Explore georeferenced maps - Map images - National Library of Scotland


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## liqouriceandhorses (Dec 30, 2020)

Citezenship said:


> So this is one of the star forts that really puzzles me,
> 
> Tilbury fort
> 
> ...



I too have had the thought that many star forts are quarried, also that the ones that sits directly at the shoreline may hav had pieces worn off in the distant years. (as well as act as a foundtion to the castles we all read about in school, non star forts). Dont think you should bin that idea just yet. 
About design, not sure every one was some sort of power house, but this is one i think were. +Riga


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## Citezenship (Dec 30, 2020)

Thanks for a fort that is not yet on my map,

Ecaterinenberg, is a power station for sure, the drawings look link electrical diagrams, with a river running through it!

do you have a location for your first pic???



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## liqouriceandhorses (Dec 30, 2020)

Citezenship said:


> Thanks for a fort that is not yet on my map,
> 
> Ecaterinenberg, is a power station for sure, the drawings look link electrical diagrams, with a river running through it!
> 
> ...



Riga Latvia. 

Also what is very interesting is why Ekaterinburg have Germanic/gothic name, and still using it. Its deep in "Russia".


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## Citezenship (Dec 30, 2020)

liqouriceandhorses said:


> Citezenship said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for a fort that is not yet on my map,
> ...



Yes i found that strange when searching, very deep in Russia, beautiful city too.

Here is a little history but is in Russian but a few good pics.


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## Jd755 (Dec 30, 2020)

No the maps and plan prove very little. The plan for example suggests that it was used to keep black powder and ammunition safe. Safe from would be thieves, safe and usable, keeping people safe from explosion. The design of the structure could be ideal to contain and direct a blast upwards with only minor damage to its structure in the event of an explosion and probably a high survivability for most folk within the walls.
It could also be the magazine which supplied ammunition and powder to the ships being built in Chatham where if memory serves there was a Royal dockyard. The access to the river would mean it could be taken straight from the magazine to ships of all sizes moored or berthed nearby by lighter or small vessels in safety.
That's just one thing that comes to mind. Look again.


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## Citezenship (Dec 30, 2020)

kd-755 said:


> No the maps and plan prove very little. The plan for example suggests that it was used to keep black powder and ammunition safe. Safe from would be thieves, safe and usable, keeping people safe from explosion. The design of the structure could be ideal to contain and direct a blast upwards with only minor damage to its structure in the event of an explosion and probably a high survivability for most folk within the walls.
> It could also be the magazine which supplied ammunition and powder to the ships being built in Chatham where if memory serves there was a Royal dockyard. The access to the river would mean it could be taken straight from the magazine to ships of all sizes moored or berthed nearby by lighter or small vessels in safety.
> That's just one thing that comes to mind. Look again.


Funny you mention Chatham, that is next on the list, Amherst fort, a very important strategic point with major historical significance and of course birthplace of one of the most pernicious pieces of propaganda ever, the Chatham house rules.

There is a case for the magazine storage and we know some of the forts are even called that, the fort at Chatham even has one outlying battery if memory serves however i think these explanations are just how the forts were used after they were built!


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## liqouriceandhorses (Dec 30, 2020)

Citezenship said:


> kd-755 said:
> 
> 
> > No the maps and plan prove very little. The plan for example suggests that it was used to keep black powder and ammunition safe. Safe from would be thieves, safe and usable, keeping people safe from explosion. The design of the structure could be ideal to contain and direct a blast upwards with only minor damage to its structure in the event of an explosion and probably a high survivability for most folk within the walls.
> ...



xD


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## Citezenship (Dec 30, 2020)

liqouriceandhorses said:


>


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## Jd755 (Dec 30, 2020)

It was your mention of Chatham that set off the arming of the fleet train of thought. If that were the case then this structure was either specifically located on the banks of the River of Thames (as it is called on the ordnance survey map) or it pre-existed the requirement for black powder/ammunition storage.
When it comes to these starforts, an odd name as they are more geometric (Euclidean geometry) shaped than star shaped (starforts another term planted in the alternative by the controllers?) I find it odd that there is precious little written about how they were built. Everyone seems to home in on the esoteric and in doing so ignore the obvious which to me is the methods used to build the things.


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