# Oldest cousin of Native Americans found in Russia



## Timeshifter (Apr 26, 2021)

Please move if in wrong forum KD.

Came across this just now. Oldest cousin of Native Americans found in Russia

Given the lenghty discussions around the forum on this very subject, I thought I would share.

'A new study has revealed the oldest link yet between Native Americans and their ancestors in East Asia: a 14,000-year-old tooth belonging to a close cousin of today’s Native Americans, found thousands of kilometers from the landmass that once connected Eurasia and the Americas.

“It’s very cool,” says Jennifer Raff, a geneticist at the University of Kansas, Lawrence, who studies the peopling of the Americas. The work suggests the Siberian ancestors of North America’s Indigenous peoples were more widespread and mobile than previously believed, she says. It may also indirectly support the hypothesis that Native Americans’ ancestors became isolated from their Asian forebears on Beringia, an ancient land bridge that connected Siberia to Alaska.

Sometime about 20,000 years ago, people began to cross the eastern tip of Siberia onto Beringia. Exactly where they lived and roamed in Siberia before that, however, has long been a mystery'

'The new study provides the oldest evidence yet of a close genetic ancestor to Native Americans in Eurasia. It’s also much farther from Beringia that many would have suspected, says the study’s senior author, Johannes Krause, an archaeogeneticist and director of the Max Planck Institute (MPI) for the Science of Human History. In the 1970s, Russian archaeologists excavated a site called Ust-Kyakhta sandwiched between the southern banks of Lake Baikal and the Mongolian border in south-central Russia. They recovered thousands of stone and bone tools, ceramics, and reindeer and fish bones—plus a sliver of a human tooth.

The tooth sat in a collections drawer for decades, until Svetlana Shnaider, an archaeologist at the Russian Academy of Sciences, brought it to the attention of ancient DNA experts at MPI. “Initially I was quite skeptical” that it could still contain DNA, Krause says'

'But Siberia’s cold, dry environment favors DNA preservation, and the team succeeded in sequencing the tooth bearer’s genome from dental pulp. Based on radiocarbon dates of charcoal and bones found alongside the tooth, researchers calculated it to be about 14,000 years old. The genome showed the individual was a man—one who shared the same distinctive mixture of East Asian and Eurasian ancestry as today’s Native Americans. That makes him the oldest known close relative of Native Americans outside the Americas, the researchers report today in Cell.

The man lived 4500 kilometers from Beringia and nearly 3200 kilometers from a woman in northeastern Siberia who shared about two-thirds of her genome with living Native Americans. This suggests the source population from which Native Americans emerged occupied a vast region of northeastern Eurasia, Krause says.

That impressive range, in turn, implies that the group directly ancestral to Native Americans became genetically isolated in Beringia, not in Siberia, where they had been moving around for thousands of years, Raff says. Today, the people near Lake Baikal have virtually none of the genetic hallmarks of that older population, indicating it was replaced by migrants of primarily northeast Asian ancestry about 10,000 years ago.

People around Lake Baikal continued to move around and interact with other groups for thousands of years, according to additional findings in the paper. Two of them, buried side by side about 4200 years ago, bore the DNA signature of the plague-causing bacteria Yersinia pestis, which until now had only been found much farther west, in people with a genetic connection to the Eurasian steppe.

“That [the bacterium] moved all the way from the Baltic to the Baikal over more or less 100 years is a bit of a surprise,” Krause says. “Today, we see something like coronavirus that went everywhere within 3 months, but the Bronze Age was not such a globalized world.”

The combination of both human and pathogen ancient DNA offer a rare historical window into a place critical to understanding Native American, Asian, and European genetics, says Priya Moorjani, a geneticist at the University of California, Berkeley. “Every sample thus far from this region has helped to refine our understanding of human history and evolution'

Let us ignore the 'thousands' of years malarky, and suggest this could be what, 200-500 years ago? Makes more sence to me. 

Thoughts?





> Note: This OP was recovered from the Sh.org archive.





> Note: Archived Sh.org replies to this OP are included in this thread.


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: StarmonkeyDate: 2020-05-20 19:11:04Reaction Score: 2


Lake Baikal jumped out at me. For several controversial reasons not worth arguing about with toddlers.
And then there's the FROGS.

And similarity to lake cities of antiquity.
I was wrong about the frogs. They're in Titicaca.
But Baikal is old and DEEP, so who knows what's down there?...


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: plamskiDate: 2020-05-20 20:03:30Reaction Score: 6


What if it turns out that migration was in the opposite direction - from America to Asia?


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: ShemTovDate: 2020-05-20 20:34:06Reaction Score: 0


if the leader was unreasonable and childlike and lied to them all the time i can see why they might migrate to eurasia.

"R1 (M173) is found predominantly in North American groups like the Ojibwe (50-79%), Seminole (50%), Sioux (50%), Cherokee (47%), Dogrib (40%) and Tohono O'odham (Papago) (38%)

A study of Raghavan et al. 2013 found that autosomal evidence indicates that skeletal remain of a south-central Siberian child carrying R* y-dna (Mal'ta boy-1) "is basal to modern-day western Eurasians and genetically closely related to modern-day Amerindians, with no close affinity to east Asians. This suggests that populations related to contemporary western Eurasians had a more north-easterly distribution 24,000 years ago than commonly thought." Sequencing of another south-central Siberian (Afontova Gora-2) revealed that "western Eurasian genetic signatures in modern-day Amerindians derive not only from post-Columbian admixture, as commonly thought, but also from a mixed ancestry of the First Americans."

north america to europe... thats this guy so far. he might be a euro-cherokee
SC2_Meso    Schela Cladovei (Romania)    U5a1c    R1


----------



## Felix Noille (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: FelixnoilleDate: 2020-05-21 08:23:41Reaction Score: 6




Timeshifter said:


> The man lived 4500 kilometers from Beringia and nearly 3200 kilometers from a woman in northeastern Siberia who shared about two-thirds of her genome with living Native Americans.


"Just nipping out to the dentist's dear. I'll be back in about 14,000 years."

Not sure that I trust any of this 'archaeology' to be honest - especially the carbon-dating taken from stuff that was lying around nearby.


----------



## Magnus (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: MagnusOpusDate: 2020-05-21 12:10:57Reaction Score: 3


of course it has to be 14000 years old..... keeps it consistent with the old fairy tales


----------



## Ishtar (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: IshtarDate: 2020-05-21 12:19:40Reaction Score: 6




Felixnoille said:


> "Just nipping out to the dentist's dear. I'll be back in about 14,000 years."
> 
> Not sure that I trust any of this 'archaeology' to be honest - especially the carbon-dating taken from stuff that was lying around nearby.


yeah, this makes no sense:
“'But Siberia’s cold, dry environment favors DNA preservation”
“The tooth sat in a collections drawer for decades”


----------



## JimDuyer (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Jim DuyerDate: 2020-05-23 16:57:37Reaction Score: 9




Timeshifter said:


> Please move if in wrong forum KD.
> 
> Came across this just now. Oldest cousin of Native Americans found in Russia
> 
> ...


Why do they still try to push this swill down our throats, when they know perfectly well that it is not in any way shape or form the truth?   There was a group of people who merged with the natives of Europe, tens of thousands of years prior to the groups that came out of the Russian steppe and the Turkish regions. They now make up about a third of our ancestry, for North Americans and Europeans, and probably more groups as well, since they migrated as far south as Greece and as far east as Slovakia.  This is the period about 30-40,000 years ago or more.  And some of them made it to North America as well. 

This is from a recent study at Harvard:
As expected, the genetic data showed that modern Europeans hold a mix of genes from Middle Eastern farmers and the European hunter-gatherers who preceded them into Europe. But it also shows that modern Europeans have genetic contributions from a third group, originating in ancient north Eurasia, that was unknown before research from Reich and collaborators was published in September. It appears that this group eventually spread not just into Europe, but also to North America, since their genes are represented in Native Americans. 

When they say "originated in ancient north Eurasia, that is simply a scientific guess. The truth is, that maps of the locations where they first settled, indicate that they came from a region very near the North Pole, and very long ago, prior to some of those regions becoming submerged.  In fact, the map looks like and umbrella, with all of the metal spines fanning out and pointing to an origin in that area.

It's very clearly the origin, and also very clearly something that those with agendas do not wish us to understand.    Think about our own evidence - both the Bible and the earliest Sumerian writings tell us that they received their knowledge from a group that was described, in all places, as having extremely white skin, yellow hair, and bright eyes (perhaps blue?).  The earliest Peruvian records speak of a man wearing a white robe, with extremely white skin, who came out of Lake Titicaca and taught mankind. The Native Americans speak of people with red hair and white skin, who came well before the "white man" invasion.   What do we need,  a road-map? 

 Isn't it by now obvious that the ones that write this crap are from a middle-eastern oriented way of thinking or are friendly to those ideas, and wish to convince us that that the Middle East, or even, God forbid Africa, and not the North, was the origin of man? 

Do you know how old the idea of the Bering strait crossing origin of Native Americans is, and who proposed it?  
A scientist?  No, try a Jesuit priest.  Recently?  No, try five hundred years ago.
 In fact, here's what a decent search of the topic will provide: "Five hundred years ago, a Jesuit priest speculated that the Native American descendants of Adam and Eve migrated on foot to North America across a land connection located somewhere in the northwest." Notice two words,
speculated, (which Jesuits love to do, since there is no evidence presented.  The modern version of this, by the way, is call a Scientific wild-ass-guess) and his attempt to link a partial mention in the Old Testament to the actual origins of mankind.  Please tend to theology and leave science to the scientists. Thank you very much.

Evidence for the crossing of the Bering Strait - such as campfires, tools, pottery, lodgings,
bones, arrowheads, hell - cigarettes?  anything whatsoever that might prove anything, just anything at all? Absolutely none, not anywhere nearby, not on the straight, not before, and not after. 

First we need to flush out these old ideas from our memory.  Then we need to recognize that the truth is something not in relation to what these people are selling us and our kids. And then, we need to grasp our heritage in both hands, and thank God that those early people were able to accomplish that much, and that long ago.


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: BantaDate: 2020-05-26 23:14:23Reaction Score: 1




Jim Duyer said:


> Why do they still try to push this swill down our throats, when they know perfectly well that it is not in any way shape or form the truth?


I doubt they do. It's really hard (and getting harder by the year) to get out of one's own niche and do the fundamental background research in all the tangentially related fields. Been re-reading some Fomenko lately and it's very similar to how the scientists trying to calibrate carbon dating simply defer to the historians for "known" dates as a baseline. 

It's more than a little ironic that one who arrives at conclusions that aren't based on non-verifiable assumptions is called a "renaissance man."


----------



## Whitewave (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: whitewaveDate: 2020-05-26 23:36:45Reaction Score: 3


All the location markers point to Tartaria. Or at least strongly suggest it.


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: ShemTovDate: 2020-05-27 10:46:51Reaction Score: 1




FlyChaos said:


> please leave politics to reddit , not here.


it isn't politics. since it affects the whole world its history.




FlyChaos said:


> maybe tartarians  from north pole ?


to alot of people the north pole was not very far north.
north pole was

peace


----------



## JimDuyer (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Jim DuyerDate: 2020-05-27 15:10:44Reaction Score: 2




FlyChaos said:


> R-M173 in the Lancaster, Satterthwaite DNA project
> ........R-M173 is much more common and is indeed the most common haplotype by far in northern and western Europe. In most surname projects for British surnames it dominates. There are two main branches, R1b, which dominates in Western Europe, and R1a, which is more important from Eastern Europe all the way to India. The European R1b population is dominated by R-L42, which appears to have arrived from the Middle East.
> Y-DNA Haplogroup R1 in Native Americans
> .........Y-DNA Haplogroup R1 is very frequent in North-Eastern Amerinds. A 2008 study said that it's the result of european admixture from the first europen newcomers but this is unlikely since other european haplogroups were not found. The sudy also doesn't give much details about R1 sub-clades present there.
> ...


Sure, why not Tartarians or something similar, from somewhere near the North Pole?  The reports from our ancestors claim that they came, some of them, from Scythia.  The scientists tell us that many of us migrated in from the Scythian regions near the Black and Caspian Seas.
But what nobody seems to notice, is that on the oldest maps, from 800-1100 AD, there are two Scythia's drawn on them - one near where they are traditionally said to have arisen, near the Black Sea, but the other in the very northern part of Norway/Finland!  So perhaps they did know some of the truth.


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: ShemTovDate: 2020-05-27 16:07:44Reaction Score: 3


scythian lands


if you go to a roman entrance to the caves under budapest you will see the word "tartarus" carved on the wall of one of the largest cave systems in the world with huge underground lakes and cathedral like chambers.

here is a eastern european researched map [clip] of darius of persias campaign against the scythians. says he chased them all the way to tartarus.
where his path divides is iarcuri [troy of legend], the reason for the invasion [herodotus] aside from finding the vara of yima, his gods creation story place on okeanos, the primeval sea.



our ancestors in spirit are from tartarus in scythian lands. god was indo european, a proto yamnaya. its quite a problem for the system. the proof is alot farther south and alot more accessible than the north pole thank god. these folks are not kidding.



here is a vid on tartarus

mentions okeanos drying up at about 6.5 minutes

might also note its where the first r1 cherokee european is from. mesolithic.


----------



## SelfChosen1 (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: SelfChosen1Date: 2020-05-27 21:49:19Reaction Score: 1


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: ShemTovDate: 2020-05-27 22:12:24Reaction Score: 0


here are some neat languages maps.note the scythians on cyprus etc
3800bc


3400bc


3000bc


the indo europeans did a job of it what?
did scythians exist in 3800bc? 

peace


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: ShemTovDate: 2020-05-28 04:14:44Reaction Score: 0




FlyChaos said:


> R-M173 not found  in eastern europe tho .
> 
> keep to KDs guidlines . have deleted my quote of ur post , please edit ur post to remove comment
> 
> on SH  'north pole'  = north pole land mass !


if korben would like me to remove anything i would. 

is there a northpole landmass? as canadians we are taught its just floating ice on an ocean.


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: ShemTovDate: 2020-05-28 04:39:10Reaction Score: 1




FlyChaos said:


> Hyperborea: what if it still exists?
> Mount Meru. Is there a magnetic mountain at the North pole?
> 
> he not time moderate forum , do it please !


ah yes hyperborea. i have a post in there. think it says yes it still exists.

he has had time to create some of the most amazing threads of serious length and effort. its covid time. how does he not have the time anymore. hope he will start new threads.
did you ask him if he wants it done? surely he has time to pm u or me. he can do it himself if it bothers him. i do not respond to self proclaimers.


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: ShemTovDate: 2020-05-28 04:45:05Reaction Score: 0




FlyChaos said:


> i give up .


that will happen when you are the only one in the world who cares.


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: ShemTovDate: 2020-05-28 04:57:30Reaction Score: 0


are you a moderator? you are deleting my posts from the forum? if you are not i was not being rude in telling you that you will not tell me what to do. there is one god and i will obey him or he will smite me.


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: ShemTovDate: 2020-05-28 05:03:42Reaction Score: 0




FlyChaos said:


> deleting MY  posts. end. altho LOL at u compare me to God


no i said corben was god. i think you did a freud.

i see you added the name to make it official.

every 4 years we in canada recieve a new crop of reallllly unhappy americans up here. i cannot imagine what the next bunch will be like. noone seems to leave north america.


----------



## JimDuyer (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Jim DuyerDate: 2020-05-28 15:58:42Reaction Score: 1




ShemTov said:


> no i said corben was god. i think you did a freud.
> 
> i see you added the name to make it official.
> 
> every 4 years we in canada recieve a new crop of reallllly unhappy americans up here. i cannot imagine what the next bunch will be like. noone seems to leave north america.


Attention Shoppers!  This is God.  Please place your shopping carts in the proper positions and exit the store.
Sorry ShemTov,  but I couldn't resist.  As one American who did leave the States, I can confirm that the ones that come down near where I live now are certainly a huge pain in the ass.  But I was used to that - I grew up in Florida, where the people from Michigan used to come down, retire, and then tell us how to do everything the "right" way.  And then they would tell us how to drive our own roads, while they, in the mean time, were making left-hand turns from the right lane, and driving like turtles.


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: ShemTovDate: 2020-05-28 16:56:20Reaction Score: 1




Jim Duyer said:


> Attention Shoppers!  This is God.  Please place your shopping carts in the proper positions and exit the store.
> Sorry ShemTov,  but I couldn't resist.  As one American who did leave the States, I can confirm that the ones that come down near where I live now are certainly a huge pain in the ass.  But I was used to that - I grew up in Florida, where the people from Michigan used to come down, retire, and then tell us how to do everything the "right" way.  And then they would tell us how to drive our own roads, while they, in the mean time, were making left-hand turns from the right lane, and driving like turtles.


florida. typing the world gets me very excited canadianly. i have not not been to florida ever. my grandfather was a st pete beachbum who never came home. what a great place. this has been a terrible year. i miss smell. flowers all the time.


----------



## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: BantaDate: 2020-05-29 00:00:19Reaction Score: 1


This thread is super confusing. Like Hyperborea, large segments have been deleted from existence!


----------



## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2020-06-02 03:41:07Reaction Score: 0


I'm gonna lock this up. Unfortunately do not have time to dive into details to sort everything out.


----------

