# 250 years ago there was no Russian language yet



## zlax (Dec 19, 2020)

250 years ago there was no Russian language yet, in the European part of modern Russia they wrote in "Rossiyskiy language". 250 years ago there was no established "Rossiyskiy language", they often wrote at that time in "Slavensky language". For example, Zakhary Orfelin's work "The life and glorious deeds of the Emperor Peter the Great" was written in "Slavensky language":
_"has now been written down and published for the first time in Slavensky language"_
_
_​https://digitalna.nb.rs/wb/NBS/Star..._Zaharije_Orfelina/S-II-0888a#page/0/mode/1up
To all appearances, the Russian language was formed by the efforts of Alexander Pushkin, while the Rossiyskiy language was formed by Mikhailo Lomonosov ("Rossiyskiy Grammar"). In this aspect, Lomonosov's words concerning the Slavensky language are interesting:


> "Slavensky language at the time of the Ruriks, and according to the Rossiysky chronicles, and a lot of before that, stretched in length from the east to the Don and Oka rivers and to the west to Illyrik and to the Alba river, and in width from noon to the Black Sea and from the Danube river to the southern shores of the Varangian Sea, to the Dvina river and to the Bela lake; for they were spoken by Czechs, Lekhs, Morava, Pomors or Meranians, Slavs on Danube, Serbs and Slavic Bulgarians, Glades, Bujanes, Krivichi, Drevlyanian, Novgorod Slavs, Beloozercians, Suzdalians and so on. And for Slavensky language to spread only widely, it was necessary for a very long time and many centuries, and especially that the Slavensky language neither from Greek, nor from Latin, nor from other known does not origin; therefore, itself consists already of the most ancient times, and numerous of these Slavic peoples spoke Slavensky language even before Christ."


​Source:


For comparison the title page of the 2 years later reprint of "The life and glorious deeds of the Emperor Peter the Great" written in "Rossiysky language":
​https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=qwlhAAAAcAAJ&rdid=book-qwlhAAAAcAAJ&rdot=1
Also interesting that full title on Slavenskiy and Rossiyskiy languages principally differs only in one word: царествѣ/государствѣ.

Slavensky:


> Житіе иславныя дѣла государя императора Петра Великаго самодержца всероссійскаго съ предположенїемъ краткой Географичкской и политической Исторїи о Россійскомъ *царствѣ*



(with modern Russian it could be translated as: Vita and glorious deeds of Emperor Peter the Great All-Russian autocrat with the assumption of a brief geographical and political history of the Russian tsarstvo (kingdom, realm))

Rossiysky:


> Житіе и славныя дѣла Петра Великаго самодержца всероссійскаго съ приположеніемъ краткой географичкской и политической исторїи о Россійскомъ *государствѣ*



(with modern Russian it could be translated as: Vita and glorious deeds of Peter the Great All-Russian autocrat with a brief geographical and political history about the Russian gosudarstvo (state, government))

Tsarstvo - from Tsar
Gosudarstvo - from Gosudar

In modern Russian, by the way, there is a stable word combination "tsartstvo-gosudarstvo", used mainly in children's folklore:
https://www.google.ru/search?q=царство-государство&tbm=isch

	Post automatically merged: Dec 19, 2020

Pyzhikov: Russians were created by the Jesuits.


> Under Catherine the Great the Jesuit project in Russia begins. Catherine the Second decided to make a major ideological turn. She decided to form "one people" as soon as possible, one nation. In other words, to depict the unity of the ruling stratum and the population. That's what the rulers of other European countries were doing. It was the second half of the 18th century that was the peak of these efforts to create united nations. And the Order of the Jesuits participated and made a significant contribution. For example, the very understanding of Eastern Europe was shaped by the Jesuits. I shall mention only one surname of Serb Boskovich who was the Jesuit and actually it has generated concept "east Europe" in its Slavic sense. And in grinding of Slavic languages the other Jesuit Czech Joseph Dobrovsky has made the huge contribution. He did not have time to finish the novitiate, but he communicated with this audience. The Jesuit's contribution to the creation of the Slavic ideology can be seen everywhere.
> 
> What did Catherine want? Pugachev's uprising frightened the entire ruling stratum. And the main conclusion that Catherine made - there is no single nation. It showed all these events. The murders of landlords, bishops. There is no people with whom the ruling tier can consider itself one. And Catherine faced the task - we need a single people, which would include both the ruling stratum and the huge masses of indigenous people. Who will do it?
> 
> And so Catherine the Second, when she began to implement the idea of a single nation, she took advantage of the experience that had already been gained in other countries. Who made the greatest contribution to the creation of European nations, especially Slavic ones? And here the Order of the Jesuits soaked, especially it was banned and out of business. Catherine decided to use this opportunity and invited them here, entrusting them with the educational system. And for the sake of this, she even moved away from the education of the Orthodox Church, its hierarchs, believing that they can not cope with the task. The educational system is a Jesuit methode, and they started to create their own colleges, "Collegiums". And by the way, the first Minister of Education of the Russian Empire Zavadovsky was a graduate of a Jesuit college, and then the Kiev-Mohyla Academy. This bunch meets constantly - the Jesuit College and the Kiev-Mohyla Academy, which we declare the "heart of Orthodoxy. Jesuit educational institutions were very popular with the Russian elite.



Aleksandr Vladimirovich Pyzhikov — Russian historian and statesman, doctor of historical sciences, professor.


(automated translated subtitles are available)


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## Silveryou (Dec 19, 2020)

ahahahah this would have made @khaoz really mad.


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## zlax (Dec 19, 2020)

"Rossiysky yazik" (Rossiysky language):



https://books.google.com/ngrams/gra...0;;Россійскій языкъ;,c0;;россійскій языкъ;,c0
It's all natural in my opinion.

...

Slavensky yazik (Slavensky language in 3 forms of spelling):



https://books.google.com/ngrams/gra...0;;славянскій языкъ;,c0;;Славянскій языкъ;,c0It looks natural. But the first mentions appear later than the Rossiysky language, despite Sergei Ignatenko's suggestion that Slavensky probably is older than Rossiysky.

Russkiy yazik (Russian language in different forms of spelling):



https://books.google.com/ngrams/gra...ыкъ;,c0;;Русскій языкъ;,c0;;Русскій Языкъ;,c0
Note the many peaks of references with decades of silence, it is typical for historical forgeries. And also the blue line is the modern form of writing adopted just 102 years ago. It couldn't have been written that way 200 years ago (but can be dated retrospectively if the forger was not sufficiently literate)


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## usselo (Dec 20, 2020)

zlax,

Following up on possible evidence for khaoz's claim that Russian (or perhaps 'Slavensky') was a source language for English.

Page four of 'Notes on Bells, Bell Hanging, Bell Ringing and Bell Restoration' by Peter Woollam, Lichfield DAC Bell Adviser, says this of inscriptions on cast British church bells:



> Foundry workers of earlier centuries were probably ill-educated, barely literate even, and it is not unusual to find evidence of this in the form of e.g. the letters “N” and “S” being reversed or upside-down.



Given that much online material has already disappeared and/or disappeared from search engines recently, I would quickly grab that PDF quickly.

The entire PDF is worth a careful read.

For example, in the contexts of this board's giants threads:
Giants Existed. Two Chronicles
SH Archive - Mudfossil University: Titans, Giants, Dragons...
SH Archive - Phrygia to Asia: Scythian Gold, UFOs, Giants and Gog and Magog
SH Archive - Giant "Ancient" Romans, Human Engineering and the Real Slavery

and giants and weapons thread:
Giants in Ancient Warfare

one might notice the bell's sponsors are identified as 'Gnt'. Ostensibly, 'Gnt' is short for 'Gentleman'.

I've put the links in so anyone who wants to follow up on those parts in the appropriate threads. Returning to this thread...

Although we English-speakers tend to hear Russian as very 'different', there are odd similarities between Russian and every-day English. For example, we hear the Russian formal greeting 'здравствуйте' as very foreign. And it is. You can hear it spoken in episode four of Mark Thomson's 'Russian Made Easy' course at:

Learn Russian: Russian Made Easy 4

However if we listen to an episode or two, we find some russian phrases sound remarkably like English. This earlier episode is a good start:

Learn Russian: Russian Made Easy 2

In the episode documentation we see:



> это мой суп



It looks very foreign. But listen to the pronunciation in the episode. Many non-Russian English speakers could instantly understand the meaning from the sound of that phrase if they heard it spoken and had not been told it was russian. Even more so if they were from Somerset or East Anglia. Even more so if they were eating in a cafe or sitting at a dinner table.

There are quite a few other similarities in the first few episodes of the course but that is far as I have got. It may be that episodes four onwards disprove my observation completely!


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## matematik (Dec 20, 2020)

Most Indo-European languages share masses of cognates with each other, that doesn't really mean one came from the other per se, just that they share a common ancestor.

It's also worth pointing out that Slavs are not originally native to Russia. The Slavic people/culture originated from the Carpathian mountains and moved eastwards into Russia. European Russia was originally Finno-Ugric and Turkic. All this "everything is Russian" stuff strikes me as an attempt to make the history and linguistics fit a modern Russian nationalist agenda. The reality is that in the grand scheme of things "Russia" is not a particularly old country and arguably a somewhat artificial country.


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## zlax (Dec 20, 2020)

usselo said:


> > Foundry workers of earlier centuries were probably ill-educated, barely literate even, and it is not unusual to find evidence of this in the form of e.g. the letters “N” and “S” being reversed or upside-down.


Is that an allusion to the use of Cyrillic 'И'?
I would agree with this paragraph and add that often, apart from inverted letters, there is a mixture of Latin-Cyrillic-Greek letters in the same word or phrase. This is especially common on coins:






usselo said:


> Although we English-speakers tend to hear Russian as very 'different', there are odd similarities between Russian and every-day English.


I think it's a credit to the translators and diplomats (broadly speaking). It was probably done deliberately.

Take for example the word "Корона" (Corona) - in Russian this word means crown, and when capitalised in the context of history it refers to a monarch, and now in publicity it refers to the British Crown.
Or let's look at:
https://www.etymonline.com/word/virus_virus (n.)
late 14c., "poisonous substance," from Latin virus "poison, sap of plants, slimy liquid, a potent juice," from Proto-Italic *weis-o-(s-) "poison," which is probably from a PIE root *ueis-, perhaps originally meaning "to melt away, to flow," used of foul or malodorous fluids, but with specialization in some languages to "poisonous fluid" (source also of Sanskrit visam "venom, poison," visah "poisonous;" Avestan vish- "poison;" Latin viscum "sticky substance, birdlime;" Greek ios "poison," ixos "mistletoe, birdlime;" *Old Church Slavonic višnja "cherry;"* Old Irish fi "poison;" Welsh gwy "poison"). The meaning "agent that causes infectious disease" is recorded by 1728 (in reference to venereal disease); the modern scientific use dates to the 1880s. The computer sense is from 1972._
Why is it poison in all European languages, and only in Slavic "cherry"? The Slavs are very fond of the cherry fruit, often associating it with love in poetry and songs (Зимняя вишня)
But such semantic confusions are not only present in English-Russian. For example the word "Chokhmah" in Russian means joke, but in Hebrew it means the Wisdom (on of the sephirotes).
Anagrams and palindromes are also very common. For example: "carnivorous-coronavirus" and "¿Мань, на хуя ухань наМ?".
Recent examples, in my view, show that such formations of interlanguage connotations are actively pursued. In my opinion, the most logical and simple explanation is that all this is done by governments and churches in a deliberate and coordinated, i.e. by the structures overseeing the dissemination of information.

On this occasion i'll qote you a chokhmah:


> A new monk arrived at the monastery. He was assigned to help the other monks in copying the old texts by hand. He noticed, however, that they were copying copies, not the original books. The new monk went to the head monk to ask him about this. He pointed out that if there were an error in the first copy, that error would be continued in all of the other copies.
> The head monk said, ‘We have been copying from the copies for centuries, but you make a good point, my son.’ The head monk went down into the cellar with one of the copies to check it against the original.
> Hours later, nobody had seen him, so one of the monks went downstairs to look for him. He heard a sobbing coming from the back of the cellar and found the old monk leaning over one of the original books, crying.
> He asked what was wrong.
> ‘The word is ‘celebrate,’ not ‘celibate’!’ sobbed the head monk.


"Celebrate Jubilee or Celibate Juvenile"

Or another Italian-Russian case:



> Pietro-Mira Pedrillo





> (dates of birth and death unknown) is the favorite court jester of Empress Anna Ioannovna.
> He became the Empress's favorite jester and was her constant card game partner. He left Russia with a great fortune.





> With a sense of humor and wit, he quickly became a favorite of the court. Anna Ioannovna's propensity for the court jester was also explained by the fact that he played cards well and quickly became her regular card partner. He was also a banker, who was instructed by the Empress at the banquets to pay in case of loss.



In contemporary Russian - "Pedrilo" is one of the most profane forms of designation for a homosexual, a maximally homophobic form.

Or another European example of such semantic connections:
Helvetti (Finnish), Helvíti (Icelandic), Helvede (Danish), Helvete (Swedish), Helvete (Norwegian) - translates to hell and has roughly the same meaning in the English language.
But: the data code for Switzerland, CH, is derived from Latin Confœderatio Helvetica (English: Helvetic Confederation).

Not only are there many links between many languages, but also such "crossemantic antagonisms".



usselo said:


> It looks very foreign. But listen to the pronunciation in the episode. Many non-Russian English speakers could instantly understand the meaning from the sound of that phrase if they heard it spoken and had not been told it was russian.


I think this is a peculiarity of writing English. In most languages the letters directly represent sounds, but in English the grammar norms seem to have an additional undocumented function.

	Post automatically merged: Dec 20, 2020



matematik said:


> All this "everything is Russian" stuff strikes me as an attempt to make the history and linguistics fit a modern Russian nationalist agenda.


Karel Havlíček Borovský once wrote: "Russians call everything Russian as Slavic in order to call everything Slavic as Russian"


matematik said:


> The reality is that in the grand scheme of things "Russia" is not a particularly old country and arguably a somewhat artificial country.


Russia is just part of Prussia, without the letter P.


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## Silveryou (Dec 20, 2020)

Very good thread. I don't believe in a Proto-Italic language. It sounds to me as nationalistic propaganda to "italianize" a more ancient culture surely different from today's Italy.
But what do you think of the relationship between "slavic" and "germanic"? To me they were the same (they share a very similar epos) but separated later. In particular I always thought that "slavic" was in origin "germanic" but went to some changes after the Mongol (aka Muscovite-Ugro/Finnic) invasions, becoming "slavic". I have this thought because the Muscovites never went in Scandinavia and Germany, where the germanic languages were subsequently preserved. What do you think?


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## zlax (Dec 20, 2020)

Silveryou said:


> But what do you think of the relationship between "slavic" and "germanic"?


I can't say anything definitive, but i can point out that there is a connection. In my opinion, this can best be seen in the difference in the national descriptions of the Vandals:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vandals"Some medieval authors applied the ethnonym "Vandals" to West Slavs: Veneti, Wends, Lusatians or Poles.[11][12][13] It was once thought that the Slovenes were the descendants of the Vandals, but this is not the view of modern scholars.[14]"
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Вандалы#Вандалы,_венды,_славяне._VIII—XVI_векаAnd there is a whole section in Russian Wikipedia with many references:
_The Franciscan monk Guillaume de Rubruk probably read the same essays. In his description of his journey to the Tatar Khan in 1253 he noted: "The language of Russians, Poles, Czechs and Slavs is the same with the language of the vandals, whose detachment was all together with the Huns"[51].
Essays appear (N. Marshalk, 1521; S. Marshalk, 1521). Herberstein, 1549; A. Krantz, 1601; K. Gerberstein. Dure, 1613; F.Y.Spener, 1677)[52], where vandals are portray out through the Vikings by the ancestors of Russians.
The mixture of vandals and Slavs is still found in the works of historians of the 18th century, for example, in the popular book by E. Gibbon "History of the Decay and Destruction of the Roman Empire" (1776-1787). Of particular interest in this respect are the "History of the Ruthenians" published in Amsterdam in 1725, the genealogical studies of German scientists I. Hübner (1725), S. Buchholz (1753) and M. I. von Baer (1759)[54]._


Silveryou said:


> To me they were the same (they share a very similar epos) but separated later. In particular I always thought that "slavic" was in origin "germanic" but went to some changes after the Mongol (aka Muscovite-Ugro/Finnic) invasions, becoming "slavic". I have this thought because the Muscovites never went in Scandinavia and Germany, where the germanic languages were subsequently preserved. What do you think?


I reminded another Russian-language chokhmah in this case:
"Спорят викинг с раввином: - Бог один и это не Один. - Один - бог и не он один. В конце спора оба сошлись на том, что вся сила в Торе."
Literally:
"A viking and a rabbi argue: - god is the One and he is not Odin. - Odin is god and he is not the One. At the end of the argument they both agreed that in Thor-ah is the most power."
But in Russian "Odin" and "One" is "Один". And "in the Torah" and "in Thor" is "в Торе". So the whole phrase has logic in every sense.


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## Silveryou (Dec 20, 2020)

I want more of this
Sadly I can't understand well these chokmahs!


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## wommak (Dec 20, 2020)

This is great! That is why I started to learn russian, from my perspective it is so easy to learn most of slavic languages but o the other hand a 'russian' alphaphet is so unnatural or is because I was taught to use latin lettes? And yet now I am writing this thinking 'polish'. for me if you know english or german or a bit of both other are just a peace of cake. Fascinating! It is more complicated I think, our feelings, emotions attached to certain objects etc. that give meaning to words. I will keep learning, I enjoy your input thank you! Dziekuje! Danke! Correct me if needed no offence taken.


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## zlax (Dec 20, 2020)

wommak said:


> That is why I started to learn russian, from my perspective it is so easy to learn most of slavic languages but o the other hand a 'russian' alphaphet is so unnatural or is because I was taught to use latin lettes?


By the way it could be useful for you: aeiou (i wrote the code for this simple educational webapp by the request of my acquaintance).


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## usselo (Dec 20, 2020)

zlax said:


> By the way it could be useful for you: aeiou (i wrote the code for this simple educational webapp by the request of my acquaintance).


That's a fascinating resource. 

Taking just one example... For Portuguese speakers, navigate to the ж character and click on it until you get to ложа, meaning 'lodge'. Which, I assume, in Russian means 'to lodge' in the sense of 'to store (something)', 'to put (something) in place' or 'to settle (something) in place'. To my English ear the app's spoken word 'ложа' is indistinguishable from the Portuguese word 'loja', meaning store-room.

You could lose a lot of a Sunday evening investigating further.


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## Silveryou (Dec 20, 2020)

zlax said:


> "A viking and a rabbi argue: - god is the One and he is not Odin. - Odin is god and he is not the One. At the end of the argument they both agreed that in Thor-ah is the most power."


My addition: "The One is Odin and he is not God"


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## Citezenship (Dec 21, 2020)

zlax said:


> "A viking and a rabbi argue: - god is the One and he is not Odin. - Odin is god and he is not the One. At the end of the argument they both agreed that in Thor-ah is the most power."


haha thats a good Neo.

I can't _tell_ you exactly what _year_ it is, because we honestly _don't know_. There's nothing I can say that will explain it for you, Neo.


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## matematik (Dec 23, 2020)

Silveryou said:


> Very good thread. I don't believe in a Proto-Italic language. It sounds to me as nationalistic propaganda to "italianize" a more ancient culture surely different from today's Italy.
> But what do you think of the relationship between "slavic" and "germanic"? To me they were the same (they share a very similar epos) but separated later. In particular I always thought that "slavic" was in origin "germanic" but went to some changes after the Mongol (aka Muscovite-Ugro/Finnic) invasions, becoming "slavic". I have this thought because the Muscovites never went in Scandinavia and Germany, where the germanic languages were subsequently preserved. What do you think?



I find it strange how Jews in Russia and Eastern Europe traditionally speak Yiddish, which is essentially German. If Jews migrated from Germany to Eastern Europe and Russia, as the mainstream history claims, it seems odd to me that they would carry on speaking German for centuries afterwards. Why would Jews have any particular attachment to Yiddish/German over the native language of other European countries they live in?

It seems even more strange when you consider the theories that the Ashkenazi Jews actually originated in Russia/Central Asia, such as the Khazar theory. This makes me wonder if Yiddish is actually a remnant of a closer relationship between Germanic and Slavic languages.


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## Silveryou (Dec 23, 2020)

matematik said:


> Silveryou said:
> 
> 
> > Very good thread. I don't believe in a Proto-Italic language. It sounds to me as nationalistic propaganda to "italianize" a more ancient culture surely different from today's Italy.
> ...



There's something really fishy here. I would say that the "Jewish question" will be the last to be solved. In Italy there is a controversy brought up by an author who claims that the word Elohim in the Bible is a plural (and many in this website will agree with that). But in a discussion with an Italian dogmatic person (a lot in Italy) I made a little research on the grammatical aspect of this word. Many of those who say that Elohim stands for God will tell that this is a "plural of excellence". The strange thing is that this grammatical category was developed/founded/discovered/invented (choose what you like the most) by Heinrich Friedrich Wilhelm Gesenius (Pluralis excellentiae - Wikipedia). How is it possible that this fundamental grammatical concept in the Bible was regulated by a Lutheran theologian only in the 19th century?
In this wiki article it is said that C. W. H. Pauli, a "converted" Jew tried to dismiss these claims by saying that Elohim is a singular. I am not an expert in this field, so I'll leave the judgement to you.
By the way, in Italy they say that these rules in grammar were set by emeritous writers such as Rabbi Saadia Gaon, David Kimhi, Abraham Ibn Ezra and Yehuda ben David Hayyukh, but these guys supposedly lived 1000 years ago, 700-800 years before Genesius returned on the subject. Do we believe their writings are true? I don't.


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## OddWodniony (Dec 27, 2020)

wommak said:


> This is great! That is why I started to learn russian, from my perspective it is so easy to learn most of slavic languages but o the other hand a 'russian' alphaphet is so unnatural or is because I was taught to use latin lettes? And yet now I am writing this thinking 'polish'. for me if you know english or german or a bit of both other are just a peace of cake. Fascinating! It is more complicated I think, our feelings, emotions attached to certain objects etc. that give meaning to words. I will keep learning, I enjoy your input thank you! Dziekuje! Danke! Correct me if needed no offence taken.


Im Polish, I had Russian in school, its pretty easy if you already know polish wich is much much harder to learn.


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## zlax (Dec 31, 2020)

Imperial magazine "Razvedchik", 124 years ago:


Here is written about an imperial decree ordering to change the national colors of the flag on hats, border posts, etc. The decree proclaim the urgency of changing the colors of the flag from the old black-orange-white (the colors of the German Habsburg dynasty) to the new white-blue-red (according to the official history - the colors were borrowed from the Dutch).

The revisionist's comment: the official history claims that the white-blue-red flag was introduced in Russia by Peter (300 years ago), but this imperial military magazine shows that it happened just over 100 years ago. Why did the Oldenburg dynasty of the Romanovs trade the black-yellow-silver symbolism of the Germans for the colors of France?  The war with Germany is not far off, all roles have already been written and allies are now French. Nothing personal and no merchant fleet of Holland has anything to do with it.

Source: (no title)




National flags of Russia before and after this imperial decree​


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## liqouriceandhorses (Dec 31, 2020)

watched a "netflix documentary" show about the war against sweden and turkey i think it was, they didnt show the top flag much of the Tsar´s ship. Maybe because it was a yellow one they used those days. Maybe as a russian speaker its easier to find an original picture of the Czar Shtandart ship?


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## zlax (Feb 4, 2021)

liqouriceandhorses said:


> watched a "netflix documentary" show about the war against sweden and turkey i think it was, they didnt show the top flag much of the Tsar´s ship. Maybe because it was a yellow one they used those days. Maybe as a russian speaker its easier to find an original picture of the Czar Shtandart ship?


Here the list on Russian:
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Королевская_яхта#Российская_империяOn English:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_yacht#RussiaSpecify which of these ships you are interested in.


Polyarnaya Zvezda:
Habsburg Holy Roman black and yellow colours on top:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habsburg_MonarchyOn the back is an inverted colors of Scottish flag or the flag of Nova Scotia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Scotland#Related_flags
By the way:








http://www.uniformology.com/HEAVY-CAV-04.html


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## Hidden Rabbit (Mar 3, 2021)

There are 3 Russian states in the Modern world. This is the Russian Federation; Belarus; Ukraine. They were invented by the communists (masons) in 1917. However, it was not an obligatory project. In fact, they wanted to create a "Free Cossackiya" from the Don Cossacks (the region of Rostov-on-Don) The problem is that they began to resist. The whole project ended with genocide  The Jews were moving by the force of separatism in Ukraine and Belarus. True, the Belarusian Jews were less fortunate. They were destroyed during the Second World War. On the other hand, the state of Belarus calmed down and became stable. True, the local population is tortured with the "peasant" -Communist Language (BeloRussian language)  Yes, this whole circus is paid for by Moscow and Putin, why can't he put it down, no one can answer Unfortunately, the USSR was not an independent state government. He was ruled by the same Habsburg-Holstein, from England (There is a hypothesis that Nicholas 2 did not die, but went to England and became George. Who knows? If you consider what spiders they are, coronavirus is when all the presidents on command do as ordered .. ..) 

In 1914 there were more Russian states. Austria-Hungary. This is a Slavic state. In Prussia (a very good "German" word) Germanisation has already been completed There is also definite evidence of Slavic traces in the Ottoman Empire; in Moldova-Romania; in Sweden; in France. But this is all destroyed and "no one will believe you." 

On the other hand, we already live in a world where all whites are simply destroyed. Destroy white French, white Germans. To destroy the Russian language (aka Slavic, aka Celtic) is not enough. By the way, it makes me smile that angry articles are being written from Switzerland. This is the family estate of the Habsburg-Holstein-Windsor line. The only Neutral country that does not take any Gas weapons of the First World War; nor World War II; there is a clean ecology, mountain milk, real chocolateade (all chocolate around the world is poisoned, you need to write letters to the Indians in America and beg them to sell you beans that have not been poisoned), diamonds and cans. As far as I understand, there is another secret place. This is the island of Cuba  So there is a secret golden bank of presidents))))) (Let's remember the rumors that the President of Canada is the son of Castro) Another good place for such storage is North Korea.


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## matematik (Mar 3, 2021)

I notice you use the terms "Russian" and "Slavic" interchangeably, as if they mean the same thing. I get the impression you're implying that Russia is the sort of "spiritual leader" of the Slavic world in your view? I'm not sure that's really accurate and sounds very political/nationalistic, that's akin to saying "English" and "Germanic" mean the same thing.

The Slavic languages/people originated in the Carpathian mountains, and expanded eastwards into what is now Russia, assimilating the Finno-Ugric and other native populations, Russia is not the origin of the Slavic language/culture despite being by far the largest "Slavic" nation today.


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## Hidden Rabbit (Mar 4, 2021)

Russian is the real name of many countries. Rus` = Ros = Russia = Rossia = Rasia = Race 
For example, Italy is Etrusia. Venice is Venedia. Northern Germany is Prussia. Etc. There was Carpathian Rus. Many of these countries are already forbidden to be called Slavic. 

I believe that there was a single world with a single architecture. Then it was destroyed. On its ruins, BANDITS (Aristocrats) began to divide it into Gangs. By the way, none of the aristocrats hides that they are bandits, pirates, war crimers, slave traders etc. The kindest Aristocrats are officers and  persons with fake-documents. 

It is obvious that the world belongs to Several Families and One Religion. (Again. Christianity Muslims Judaism Freemasonry Buddhism is a single religion. I even read a book where a 19th century religious historian was surprised that Catholicism and Tibbetian Buddhism are very similar in rituals) To control, these religions are constantly dividing. The Calvinists beat the Lutherans )) Wahhabis beat the Suffis. Even a country like Sweden-Norway-Denmark was divided between the sons of the Bandits. Instead of the Union, they came up with new languages throughout the 19th century, came up with documents "we found secret documents in the basement of Iceland." But do not rejoice, it is common knowledge that Swedish Masons do not have a chapter. Pyramids, strict observance of orders, but there is no head of this pyramid. That is, this system receives orders from nowhere  I don't really like small countries, because they think like children. They believe that they want to kill, catch, force. They are offered to be an equal partner, and they go crazy. At the same time, the Coronavirus Crisis showed that their own governments want to kill them. That all presidents in all countries are carrying out a secret plan (all presidents are united and get back from the envelope) Most of all, it shocked the nationalist peoples, who thought that they were tough guys (Germany, England, etc.) 

All the hatred of the Germans for the Czechs flies away, it turns out that the information that you are relatives and both of you will be killed is more important. So you need to look for something that will unite people above this For example, there are Croats and Serbs. THIS IS THE ONE LANGUAGE, Yugoslavian. (Serbo-Croatian or Croatian-Serbian) Again, the head of the "Serbian nationalism" of Yugoslavia was the croat Bros Tito. All that separates them is the Biblical Sects. And a different story that the Croats were Vatican border keepers.

And these phrases, "Guys, live together", "You are one people", "let's live peacefully between countries" as dangerous fascism. Regarding the Cyrillic Alphabet, it displays sounds well. 33 letters are better than 26. Czechs and Poles especially suffer from this, they have to change themselves to the alphabetical system. 

The idea of settling Finns everywhere is the idea of the Holstein-Habsburgs. Moreover, these Finns are actually 5,000 people per tribe. Some of them are Chinese, others are White people who speak this Altai language. Even if we take Finland, it was the Swedish Holstein Masons - "Romanovs" who created the Finnish language. From a biological point of view, there are no Finns. But of them there were Servants  That is, the population stands out, they tell them that they are KASTA-Finns, and this whole Casta works for the Land Lords. The same joke in Britain and Ireland. Irish, British, Northern Protestants, Southerners are not biologically visible. They just give out roles in the theater. "You will be a slave all your life, and your children will be slaves. And we will sniff cocaine and play the playstation" )))) And they also say that there were Monkey People Irish. They had dog-like fangs and must be exterminated. This is a purely Indian Colony system  "All 7 generations our family has been cleaning toilets" ...

If you study the Finns, it is obvious that this is not their culture. This is Gusli-Kantele; these are legends; it is Indo-European clothing embroidery, etc. This type of music was destroyed by the church in the 19th century and 1900s. Because their version of history contradicted the official one. (Guslars, Kantelisty, Skaldy and so on)


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## Sasyexa (Apr 11, 2021)

zlax said:


> 250 years ago there was no Russian language yet


Kinda yes, but also no. 
Mainstream history agrees on that one. Before late 18th century, there was no written form of pure Russian. From the start, there was an official old-church-Slavonic in which most of the stuff was written. Old-church-Slavonic is old Bulgarian, presumably where the alphabet and orthodoxy came from to Russia. Now that doesn't mean that all Slavs there spoke or wrote in old Bulgarian. Whatever was the name, there was an older form of modern Russian where the eastern Slavs lived, now called "old Russian" , here's an example:





_*Translation to modern Russian:*_
*`Грамота от Жизномира к Микуле. Ты купил рабыню во Пскове, и вот меня за это схватила (подразумевается: уличая в краже) княгиня. А потом за меня поручилась дружина. Так что пошли-ка к тому мужу грамоту, если рабыня у него. А я вот хочу, коней купив и посадив [на коня] княжеского мужа, [идти] на очные ставки. А ты, если [еще] не взял тех денег, не бери у него ничего'

Translation to English:
`A letter from Zhiznomir to Mikula. You bought a slave girl in Pskov, and now the duchess grabbed me for it (meaning: incriminating in theft). And then the squad vouched for me. So send a letter to that man if he has the slave. But I want to, having bought horses and put the duke's man on the horse , [go] to face-to-face confrontations. And you, if you haven't taken that money [yet], don't take anything from him '*

They found hundreds, if not thousands of letters like that (mostly in Novgorodian region). I don't know how fast processed birch bark decays, so I'm not the one to judge their authenticity. Linguistically though, it makes sense. There was a growing disconnect between how people actually spoke and the official book language, so by the end of 1700s, something serviceable started to emerge (re-emerge?). Not a mish-mash of those two, but something resembling human speech

The church language, although consisting of some familiar words, sounds very convoluted because of the different rule-sets. Some of those rules and words have made their way into Russian though. From the top of my head: 
Participles
instead of Russian золото - church-Slavonic злато (gold). ворота - врата (gate), волосы - власы (hair). голова - глава (head) etc
жд sound instead of ж (невежда - невежа (ignorant person), чуждый - чужой (foreign))
And some more

For why does modern Russian differ from the rest eastern Slavic ones, I'll quote this:


> The country of Novgorod is a very curious place. it's the very first thing that came to mind when I started to look into the chronology shenanigans
> Specifically the birch bark manuscripts, their discovery helped in uncovering the origins of Russian language. Back in the day the Novgorodian region had it's own distinct dialect (given more time to develop, it would probably become a distinct northern Slavic language). Independent Novgorod stopped existing in the 15th century (a recurring theme, isn't it?), it was conquered by Moscow. These manuscripts are a recent discovery, they mostly were simple casual conversations between people, much like chats are today***. Officially, people in Great Novgorod were highly literate (women too apparently, they always point it out for some reason), so they don't question the grammar in those writings, as it was consistent enough.
> 
> The dialect itself is a missing link between modern Russian and other eastern Slavic languages. Precisely half of Russian itself consists of Novgorodian rules and words. The Ukrainian and Belarusian are more in line with the southern old Russian dialect, they were separated by the border of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, while the rest of Russia mixed and the modern language was born.
> ...



This early north-south and later east-west dichotomy is something to look into:
https://stolenhistory.net/threads/t...in-history-it-was-bigger-than-russia-once.38/https://stolenhistory.net/threads/the-hanseatic-league-who-were-they-really.1632/https://stolenhistory.net/threads/homer-in-the-baltic.4013/


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## Sasyexa (Apr 29, 2021)

There's this weird linguistic map



> Gottfried Hensel, b. 1689? “Europa poly glotta: Linguarum genealogiam exhibens, una cum literis, scribendiq[ue] modis, omnium gentium” ([Nuremberg]: Excusa prostat in Officina Homanniana, [1741]). Four copperplate maps, with added color, each 16 × 21 cm, on one sheet 51 × 57 cm [Historic Maps Collection]. From his Synopsis vniversae philologiae . . . (Nuremberg: Homann, 1741).






(Same but more continents)


Correct me if I'm wrong, but do the letters of Slavic languages get more Greek-looking *the further north* you go? Is it because language reforms took longer to reach there or perhaps we need to ask Felice Vinci?

Interestingly, there's no Ukrainian one. The Poland has borders resembling those of late 18th century.

The northernmost part is dubbed Nova Zemblicæ, which I assume is Новая Земля - New Land/Earth (it may named be after a flower zembla , who knows). The island with the same name is even further north. Recently, a bomb testing site.








However, the south-Slavic one (Slovenia, Yugoslavia) has a bit more modern look. Maybe that's what those pictures in the OP were hinting at, that the modern *alphabet* came from Slovenia?


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## matematik (Apr 29, 2021)

Sasyexa said:


> Interestingly, there's no Ukrainian one.



It looks like the map suggests that present day Ukraine was "Tartaria" then?


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## Silveryou (Apr 29, 2021)

matematik said:


> It looks like the map suggests that present day Ukraine was "Tartaria" then?


It is so even for conventional history: Crimean Khanate - Wikipedia


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## Sasyexa (Apr 29, 2021)

matematik said:


> It looks like the map suggests that present day Ukraine was "Tartaria" then?


There's no country separation between them, so here it's part of Russia. The lack of Ukrainians is weird though, maybe that's how Cossacks came to be?


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## Silveryou (Apr 29, 2021)

By the way it says "Tartaria vocibus Teutonicis et Slavonicis mixta"... which is roughly "Tartaria where both Teutonic and Slavic languages are spoken"!!!


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## Sasyexa (Apr 29, 2021)

Silveryou said:


> By the way it says "Tartaria vocibus Teutonicis et Slavonicis mixta"... which is roughly "Tartaria where both Teutonic and Slavic languages are spoken"!!!


Crimean Gothic - Wikipedia maybe this?


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## matematik (Apr 29, 2021)

Sasyexa said:


> There's no country separation between them, so here it's part of Russia. The lack of Ukrainians is weird though, maybe that's how Cossacks came to be?



Is it possible that Ukrainians were originally non-Slavic and were Russified a lot later than the mainstream history says? Although as the Kievan Rus is supposedly the foundation of Rus history I guess that theory would not go well with the mainstream chronology.

I think it would explain the high level of anti-Russian sentiment in Ukrainian society, if in reality they are a non-Slavic people who were Russified.


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## Silveryou (Apr 29, 2021)

And Italian proper is the language of northern Italy...



​Pure blonde type (in blue) distribution (1859-1863)






matematik said:


> Is it possible that Ukrainians were originally non-Slavic and were Russified a lot later than the mainstream history says? Although as the Kievan Rus is supposedly the foundation of Rus history I guess that theory would not go well with the mainstream chronology.
> 
> I think it would explain the high level of anti-Russian sentiment in Ukrainian society, if in reality they are a non-Slavic people who were Russified.


I believe the distinction between slavic and germanic should be reconsidered when applied to ancient history. People want an ongoing WW2 by projecting it into the past no matter what. There could be some truth obviously, but I am against its use for political purposes


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## Sasyexa (Apr 29, 2021)

matematik said:


> Is it possible that Ukrainians were originally non-Slavic and were Russified a lot later than the mainstream history says? Although as the Kievan Rus is supposedly the foundation of Rus history I guess that theory would not go well with the mainstream chronology.
> 
> I think it would explain the high level of anti-Russian sentiment in Ukrainian society, if in reality they are a non-Slavic people who were Russified.



It may be possible that the Tartarians were the first who invaded, considering the name-change

I think that this modern sentiment is just that, modern. A further way of division


Silveryou said:


> I believe the distinction between slavic and germanic should be reconsidered when applied to ancient history.


Yeah, there's some Gothic influence in Russian, the word хлеб (bread) for example, it has Gothic origins, but is one of the most common ones in use


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## Silveryou (Apr 29, 2021)

It would be cool to have a section in this forum when one can put all the similar words without a proper explanation in modern linguistics. For example the Greek *στρατιά *(_stratìa_) means/meant _army. _But if you think that Romans built _streets _(_strade _in Italian) for military purposes, there you have it!


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## Sasyexa (Apr 29, 2021)

Silveryou said:


> It would be cool to have a section in this forum when one can put all the similar words without a proper explanation in modern linguistics. For example the Greek *στρατιά *means/meant _army. _But if you think that Romans built _streets _(_strade _in Italian) for military purposes, there you have it!


In Russian there's a word страсть (strast'), which means passion. Passion in the army? That sounds illegal


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## Silveryou (Apr 29, 2021)

Another one I recently found, whether or not you believe in ancient technology or aliens (can I say this word or is it _illegal_?) is the inside-meaning of the English words _heaven _and _haven _in relation to airports and flying machines (Biblical matters according to Biglino). But here we are going off-thread I suppose!


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## Sasyexa (Apr 29, 2021)

Silveryou said:


> Another one I recently found, whether you believe in ancient technology or aliens (can I say this word or is it _illegal_?) is the inside-meaning of the English words _heaven _and _haven _in relation to airports and flying machines (Biblical matters according to Biglino). But here we are going off-thread I suppose!


Coincidentally, there's no English on this map. Someone with knowledge in Germanic languages should analyze this map somewhere separate


Sasyexa said:


> (Same but more continents)


Also, why some countries here are yellow, white, pink and green?


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## iseidon (Nov 21, 2021)

Silveryou said:


> It would be cool to have a section in this forum when one can put all the similar words without a proper explanation in modern linguistics.


So? (Russian). Word "Glaz-Глаз-Eye-Ай".

Русский язык как фундамент для будущего/прошлого единого языка.



Silveryou said:


> For example the Greek *στρατιά *means/meant _army. _But if you think that Romans built _streets _(_strade _


In the Russian language there is the word "stroy" (military system - voenny stroy - военный строй), the word " rat' " (army - рать)._ / Read about " Nas orda, a nas rat' " -"Нас орда, а нас рать" / _And in general, if you read "στρατιά" in Russian letters, you get "otratiya" (from rati - ot rati - от ратии).

Next, the word "strada" or "street" or "straße" (shtrasse - deutsch). Russian has the word "vstrecha" (meeting - встреча), in a number of Russian cities there is or previously there was a Sretenka Street (in honor of "Vstrecha/Sretenie Gospodnya" или "Встреча/Сретение Господня" - the meeting of the Lord). Previously, these streets were called Stretenki, but over time the letter "t" dropped. That is, the connection with the English "street" is established even within the historical Russian language. I'm not even talking about the fact that now the word street is used everywhere in the Russian language "street-art" (стрит-арт - уличное искусство или уличная культура), "street" (стрит - уличный баскетбол), etc.

And the English word "street" itself was previously (before the vowel shift) "stret".

Great Vowel Shift - Wikipedia

The same goes for the words "strasse" and "strada". In the Russian language there are similar borrowed, and culturally entered into everyday life, analogues - "trassa" (трасса - highway), "trassirovat' " (трассировать - trace), "avtostrada" (автострада - highway) , etc.

Also, the word "stroy" (build - строй) has the meaning of "stroit' " (build - строить), which very easily fits the word "street" (стрит).

In addition, the word "stroy" also means a "stroenie" (structure - структура - строение - both a building and an organism). The "structure of the organism" in the Russian language understands its system.

This is well expressed in Tyutchev's lines, which are present at the beginning of Vernadsky's book "Biosphere and Noosphere".

Невозмутимый строй во всём,
Созвучье полное в природе…

Nevozmutimy stroy vo vsöm,
Sozvučie polnoe v prirode…

An unruffled system in everything,
Consonance is complete in nature…


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## Blackdiamond (Nov 21, 2021)

Silveryou said:


> Another one I recently found, whether or not you believe in ancient technology or aliens (can I say this word or is it _illegal_?) is the inside-meaning of the English words _heaven _and _haven _in relation to airports and flying machines (Biblical matters according to Biglino). But here we are going off-thread I suppose!


Like german "hafen"? = harbor, became heaven? where the "sea" harvest's maybe? etc.  

Anyway, can most non yoguslav slavs understand serbian today? 
And did the gypsy language become influenced of either slavic or modern russian as they passed on their migration west? Their brothers, the juice, speak a strange form of dutch so.. I dont wish to derail this thread, im just curious what languages was in europe before united Rus came to be. Wouldnt it be great if Tartar and Romani (strange nameing) would have been related. Meaning, when the rus main language came about, there were no time for gypsys to take in theur words, or non left to do so.


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## iseidon (Nov 22, 2021)

Blackdiamond said:


> Like german "hafen"? = harbor, became heaven? where the "sea" harvest's maybe? etc.
> 
> Anyway, can most non yoguslav slavs understand serbian today?
> And did the gypsy language become influenced of either slavic or modern russian as they passed on their migration west? Their brothers, the juice, speak a strange form of dutch so.. I dont wish to derail this thread, im just curious what languages was in europe before united Rus came to be. Wouldnt it be great if Tartar and Romani (strange nameing) would have been related. Meaning, when the rus main language came about, there were no time for gypsys to take in theur words, or non left to do so.



Hafen (deu) = Harbor (eng) = гавань-gavan' (rus)

According to one version, the word "harbor" came into Russian from Dutch - "haven" (Hebrew, and not only, but they were often the carriers of languages from place to place, the mutual transition of "b" and "v"). "G" often goes to "h" and back. In Russia, this is clearly seen in the example of the southern dialect and the Ukrainian language, where the use of the letter "h" is found everywhere (the phenomenon is called "hekanie"). "V" and "f" are paired sounds, sonorous and deaf, at least in Russian, but I'm sure that in others too. So, the connection between Hafen and Gavan' is established, although it is so obvious to any Russian speaker. 

The connection between "harbor" and "gavan'" is more complicated, but it also exists. "Harbor" goes back to "here breg". English speakers read it now as "here coast", but a Russian speaker (without using the rules of the English language) will read it as "here breg" by letters. 

With the word "breg" everything is very easy - "bereg" (rus), but if you say "breg', then everyone will understand you, also the variation "breg" is often found in Pushkin's works. 

With the word "here" everything is a little more complicated, but if you turn on the logic, then everything falls into place. The modern Russian letter "H" (X Russian), has the historical name "her" (xep russian). Until now, the origin of this letter is officially unclear, but analyzing your case (thank you for such an interesting task), - everything fell into place. The Russian letter "HER-XEP-X" has the meaning "zdes' - here". And how do they designate a place all over the world that is in the conditional "here"? That's right, a cross. Therefore, in Russian the letter "X", not "H". By the way, now in Russian, the word "xep" has the meaning "dick". Perhaps, from above, this is how they break the ties between our cultures. 

So turning on the head, any Russian speaker will understand the meaning of the original English "here-berg", which later transformed into "harbor".

Further, in the Russian language there is a slang word "havka" (noun) or "havat'" (verb), which is understood by absolutely every Russian speaker. Now it is claimed that this word came to us from the dudes in the meaning of "people haves". There are also versions about Gypsy and Jewish origin. But in the Russian language there is a word "chavkat' " (= slurp - sounds that you make when you take food), which came from the Ukrainian "havkat' ". 

Having established the previous part, we can conclude that heaven for people is a place where there is a lot of food (havka). Plus, "havka" is similar to "HLEB" (bread). You can also add the Russian word "halyava" = freebie here. Which somewhat depresses me))) Still, I want to believe in some higher ideals. 

And the connection between "havka" (food) and "Haven" (harbor) is due to the fact that after reaching any shore, people could finally eat normally. 

In the Russian language, there are expressions "molochnye reki", "kisel'nye berega" - "milk rivers", "jelly banks". These expressions mean "hlebnye mesta" - "bread or rich places". (I'm sure there are analogues in European cultures - for example, Pays* de Cocagne). Since the port is almost always in the most advantageous position, the connection can be traced. 

* "Pays". In Russian there is a word "pay" or "payok". Meaning - part, lot, happiness. According to the accepted etymology, it originated from the Turkic languages. The word "payok" or "payka" in Russian is a common noun. It is most often used for those who work for the state or the army (for conscript soldiers).


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## iseidon (Jan 16, 2022)

int-international, ag-ancient greek, la-latina, ru-russian, en-english, de-deutsch, fr-françoise, es-español.

About enFOREST and ruLES (ruЛЕС). In such cases, one must always dig for inter-letter consonantal transitions (intEVA-ruEBA-ruЕБА, esXAVI-esXABI, agPYR-enFIRE). You can often even ignore vowels, because vowels (and therefore their omissions) were present not only among the Arabs and Slavs.

I don't know if it's on purpose or not, but you gave words that came from the common Greek ϝλατι̯ος. Given that the "R" in English is rarely pronounced as ours, and more often it is not pronounced, and that the "L" sound often turns into an "R", it is hard not to see the similarity to the Greek source, which may have migrated as the modern word FOREST (instead of FLATIOS-FRATIOS-FRTS). In Russian, however, the word came from the form ϝλατι̯ος-ulatios (vlatios, hence felling wood валить лес)-ulasios-lasios-lesios-les). This is one version, which is based on an analysis of the etymology of the deWALD (WALT-ВАЛТ-ruВАЛИТЬ; enFELL,enFALL,deFÄLLEN,frFOULE).

The second version (again, mine, since more often than not, I like to look up the etymology myself, rather than stupidly reading a dictionary and retranslating its version) is related to the word ruBOR-ruБОР. The "B" sound very often translates into "V" and vice versa (examples were above, but here are also Babylon-Vavilon, Benjamin-Veniamin, Bartholomew-Varfolomey, war-slaughter). The "V" sound often turns into "F", especially in Germanic languages, where the "F" sound has the letter "V". In Old English there is the word BEARU (FOREST). B(EA)RU-BORU-VORU-FORU. ST is a typical ending of the English words DUST, COAST, BUST, WEST, EAST, LOST, LAST, PAST, CAST, etc., which can also stand for adjective. Bottom line. FORUST-FOREST (settled in frFORE-frFORET).

Here are two versions. Both point to a common origin of Slavic, Germanic and Latin languages.

laSILVA (Transylvania, Pennsylvania) is a twist on agULASIOS-VLASIOS, it just needs to drop the ending (like intGELIOS-ruГЕЛИОС-ruGELIY-ruГЕЛИЙ).

By the way, in the Russian language there is a word ruVOLOS-ruВОЛОС-enHAIR-enLOCKS, which has a common base with agVLASIOS and ruLES. Given that the meaning of the words ruVOLOSY and ruLES is similar. ruVOLOS-enHAIR is a sprout (like the tree in the ruLES-enFOREST; note the possible P-F transition in the word enSPROUT-SFROUT-SFRT) and it is also ruВАЛИТСЯ-enFALLSDOWN. And together they form a ruVOLOSY-ruВОЛОСЫ-enHAIR-enLOCKS-ruLES-enFOREST.

esBOSKE-esBOSQUE easily turns into ruVOSK-ruВОСК (enWAX-ruВАКС-deWACHS; X-KS-SK; X-CHS-SCH), with which all vegetation is covered in thin layers. We add enBUSH or frBUISSON. enWAX-ruВОСК in Latin is laCERA, which adds to us the laSILVA-intSILVER-ruSERY-ruСЕРЫЙ-laCERA-ruSEREBRO-ruСЕРЕБРО connection. CERA in Latin sounds like CHERA (enCHERRIES-enЧЕРРИЕС-ruЧЕРЕШНЯ-ruCHERSHNYA, enCHERRY-enЧЕРРИ-ruВИШНЯ-ruVISHNYA-deKIRSCHE(K-CH-С-S); ruVOSK-ruВОСК-enWAX-deWACHS), which again refers to the forest, in Spanish like FERA, which refers to FOREST.

Humans. Unite.
Люди. Объединяейтесь.


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## Kayola (Jun 22, 2022)

Sasyexa said:


> Interestingly, there's no Ukrainian one. The Poland has borders resembling those of late 18th century.


The Russian Empire occupied the territory of Ukraine in 1654, so it is not surprising that it does not stand out on the map of 1741.


matematik said:


> I think it would explain the high level of anti-Russian sentiment in Ukrainian society, if in reality they are a non-Slavic people who were Russified.


There are a lot of facts that everything is in the exact opposite way. So far, I have not come across any confirmation of yours assumption. Swadesh list - Wikipedia


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## wommak (Jun 23, 2022)

Kayola said:


> The Russian Empire occupied the territory of Ukraine in 1654, so it is not surprising that it does not stand out on the map of 1741


There was no so called Russian Empire a that time and most of todays country Ukraine was part of Poland Lithuania Commonwealth. 
Poland borders around 1650 That is of course according to official narrative.


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## Kayola (Jun 23, 2022)

Indeed, then it was the Moscow kingdom. Most of Ukraine was part of the territory of the Commonwealth until 1591. Then a series of uprisings took place that established the Hetmanate - a Cossack state in the territories of present-day Ukraine, which existed in relative independence until 1654.
P.S. I speak about empire because after that, in 18 and 19 centuries, Ukraine continue to belong by russia


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