# We did land on the moon, but not the way you think!



## Bunnyman (Oct 19, 2020)

I can only say: check your dogma's at the door. This gentleman has his ducks in a row and I advise checking his earlier videos to get a grip on where we may live...

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> Note: This OP was recovered from the Sh.org archive.





> Note: Archived Sh.org replies to this OP are included in this thread.


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## EUAFU (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: EUAFUDate: 2020-02-10 13:11:11Reaction Score: 7


It's a very interesting theory to be honest. So the Moon is a hologram and is actually an image of the Earth and our planet is just a world contained in one of the craters of the Moon. Antarctica being the raised edge of that crater. The Nazis were obsessed with Antardite because it was the closest point to "jump" into another crater / world. And any space program and satellite launch is a diversion of resources to human colonies in these other craters. At the very least it's a fascinating idea.


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## Myrrinda (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: MyrrindaDate: 2020-02-10 13:56:42Reaction Score: 7


Oh wow thanks for the video! Once, I had a feeling that the moon is a concave mirror, maybe showing the reflection of what is inside one of our poles (supposed there is a hole on the northpole or the southpole? That would be why we see the same side all the time because it reflects the same area all the time) But of course I can't back it up with anything, it was just a feeling. The craters would be scars of electricity discharging.

But the video also reminded me of the concave earth theory and this picture


Everything could be inverted and what looks like a bulb could be actually a bowl so to speak. So living inside a crater could explain the concave model.

All very interesting!


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Bear ClawDate: 2020-02-10 15:53:21Reaction Score: 3


Oh my days. What if this is how our crater got populated, by trains of orphans. And where all the disappearing children go. I mean its just an idea but certainly an interesting one


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## feralimal (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: FeralimalDate: 2020-02-10 19:12:49Reaction Score: 3


This is a totally plausible thesis, especially as it factors in the space stuff we know about.  We know that the lies are in aid of something.... It could be that there's a lot more earth than we know.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Bear ClawDate: 2020-02-10 20:29:29Reaction Score: 5


A few thoughts. The word 'space' all of a sudden sounds like lebensraum, living space. Although admittedly there is a history of that word further back than the space race, although we all know how much that is worth.

Reminds me of the plotline to the sci-fi novel Enders Game. Not sure if anyone is aware of that.

It reminds me of another video - which would be classed as a different 'what is he nature of the planet we live on' theory, although there is further 'theorising'  and ideas concerning the notion that the stars and celestial objects are reflections from our 'plane'


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: MrB0N3sDate: 2020-02-11 01:12:26Reaction Score: 5


I think this idea has some way of showing that the flat earth and round earth phenomena belonging together to explain how the discrepenies were showing concave/convex curving such as from the inside perspective warping of a bowl.

It might look like an electrical discharge crater with resemblance of an eyeball, having concentric rings coming out from a center point.
On some maps it looks like the southern hemisphere has some oddities with stretching and tend to display their coastal sizes innacurately in comparison to the north. Is the magnetic north pole the center of a magnetic field? 

Could the south pole be the reverse orientation but merely point away from a center point because of the magnetic north, and have we visited the actual south pole magnetic center, would it even exist given the few attempts to cross the antarctic, could a ring shape mean we imply the south pole's existance mathematically because of the north pole. 
Can we measure the north pole easier than the south pole movements? 

Why is there a lack of data concerning antarctica's center point, why is it blotted out from geographical data? 
Could the lack of control over antarctica be due to it lacking any central landmass, after all I have also seen mainstream headlines about antarctica having watery lakes in its middle areas, perhaps its waving the ring shape in our faces with a sudden valley oasis in its center.
I am reminded of the hyperborea center point which seems like a large mountain surrounded by vortex. Perhaps we live in a bowl, it seems like we are in a small world.


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## EUAFU (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: EUAFUDate: 2020-02-11 01:21:44Reaction Score: 2


And it reminded me of the people at Terra Convexa who said they had captured images of another body of water besides Antarctica.


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## Whitewave (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: whitewaveDate: 2020-02-11 03:56:25Reaction Score: 5


Seems the convex model of Earth would be easiest to prove or disprove simply by comparing sea levels around the world. Since we already have that information, can it not be used to determine if the "sides of the bowl" are at a higher level than the "bottom of the bowl"? Sorry if that's a stupid question.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-02-11 09:06:58Reaction Score: 2


Sputnik.
What propulsion/fuel system did it have?
What guidance system did it have?
What communication system did it carry?

The answers to the above are vital to realising the claim the op videographer makes in his proof videos.


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## wild heretic (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: wild hereticDate: 2020-02-11 13:47:42Reaction Score: 8




EUAFU said:


> It's a very interesting theory to be honest. So the Moon is a hologram and is actually an image of the Earth and our planet is just a world contained in one of the craters of the Moon. Antarctica being the raised edge of that crater. The Nazis were obsessed with Antardite because it was the closest point to "jump" into another crater / world. And any space program and satellite launch is a diversion of resources to human colonies in these other craters. At the very least it's a fascinating idea.


All nice except bowl earth doesn't work either, like flat earth (star rotations in different hemispheres, flight times etc.) so that's the end of that theory.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Bear ClawDate: 2020-02-11 14:12:04Reaction Score: 3




wild heretic said:


> All nice except bowl earth doesn't work either, like flat earth (star rotations in different hemispheres, flight times etc.) so that's the end of that theory.


Doesn't that assume stars are material things, as opposed to lights / projections, and thus susceptible to refractions / mirroring etc? Correct me if I am missing something. 

Not saying that they aren't material of course, just that they maybe. By the way I found your blog very interesting, read (some of) it the other day.


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## dreamtime (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: dreamtimeDate: 2020-02-11 14:17:33Reaction Score: 1




wild heretic said:


> All nice except bowl earth doesn't work either, like flat earth (star rotations in different hemispheres, flight times etc.) so that's the end of that theory.


Would be nice if he had looked into concave earth, from the way he presents things it looks like he could come up with some interesting observations.


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## Bunnyman (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: BunnymanDate: 2020-02-11 14:37:24Reaction Score: 3




> All nice except bowl earth doesn't work either, like flat earth (star rotations in different hemispheres, flight times etc.) so that's the end of that theory.


Dear Sir or Madam, I find it unfortunate that you seem the kill the fun for all with your definite assessment of the case. Kindly provide some detailed descriptions on your theory of celestial movements etc. to counter this "dead end theory" for the entertainment of the open minded folks in this place. I am in particular curious on your supposition on how humanity for centuries have been able to observe the same night skies and constellations while supposedly hurling and whirling and spiraling at dazzling speed through an ever expanding universe....

I would be much obliged to provide this tread and the posited reality of celestial objects with additional information that shed some more historical, factual, information on *terrestrial continuity*, celestial objects and optics in response.

In the meantime please stroll through the footage below. Spoiler alert: United States Space Farce footage(4:05 - 6:44) is interesting and telling to say the least.


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## wild heretic (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: wild hereticDate: 2020-02-11 14:42:55Reaction Score: 0




Bear Claw said:


> Doesn't that assume stars are material things, as opposed to lights / projections, and thus susceptible to refractions / mirroring etc? Correct me if I am missing something.


Doesn't really matter though, does it. If you can draw me a model of star rotations for a bowl earth and we can then see if it could somehow work, including possible optical illusions etc.


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## EUAFU (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: EUAFUDate: 2020-02-11 16:30:09Reaction Score: 1




wild heretic said:


> All nice except bowl earth doesn't work either, like flat earth (star rotations in different hemispheres, flight times etc.) so that's the end of that theory.


the movement of the stars does not work taking into account the data and assumptions of mainstream science. Who guarantees that the stars are what they claim to be? Everything about space and about the Earth in that space for me has the same value. Flat Earth, Convex Earth, Hollow Earth, Earth Crater "Lunar" has the same validity as the revolving and supersonic wet land, the advantage of which is that advertising and education, in addition to the subliminal education means (cultural industry), promote this vision from birth to grave.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: MaybeDate: 2020-02-11 17:24:28Reaction Score: 5


I take it that the OP is promoting the same concept (but without the reflection aspect) that Korben posted about?

This:


from this post:

Poll: Your preferred cosmology?


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Bear ClawDate: 2020-02-11 20:52:56Reaction Score: 1




wild heretic said:


> Doesn't really matter though, does it. If you can draw me a model of star rotations for a bowl earth and we can then see if it could somehow work, including possible optical illusions etc.


l am terrible at drawing, sorry . However if you got to two hours and twenty mins (ish) into the video above there is a description of how it could work. Personally I am sceptical, it seems too ephereal, and unnecessarily biblical, despite its poetic beauty. I suspect there is only one intelligent objective answer to the question is the earth, flat, round, convex. That is 'I don't know'.


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## Bunnyman (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: BunnymanDate: 2020-02-12 05:46:35Reaction Score: 1


I was hoping to focus this tread on the evidence and conjectures made by the gentleman who made the first posted video and previous and subsequent material on his channel. Discussions on theories of alternative habitats have been provided for.

Personally, and in light of evidences, I am inclined to give this possibility a big nod. And the consequences are no small matter in my mind. That does not necessarily mean that I plant my stick in it, but I surely have a poke at it.

Can we discard for example (and these are just a few):

- the exact matches of the to us known shapes of terrestrial areas found to match the patterns of the " celestial moon";
- the doubtful and often refuted existence and exploration of "outer space" as we are being told;
- Operation High Jump and Operations Deep Freeze under command of Admiral Bird after WW2 to Arctic and Antarctic respectively;
- This Admiral disclosed that there are lands beyond the "know world" rich in resources;
- The Fact that shortly after the UN was erected and declared both "Poles" off-limit accept for officiates;
- The US are now in the process to erect a "merchant marine" for the "ocean that is space" and talk of a large land area at the distance of 3 days travel also rich in resources;
- many on this forum obviously feel that our "history has been stolen", and many expose the many lies TPTB sold us and are selling us. What would be different here?


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-02-12 08:36:44Reaction Score: 1


The op videographer proves his theory with a cereal bowl, a light in a darkened room, a hand held camera and a FLAT mirror angled against the wall.
The light represents the sun.
The cereal bowl represents the crater lit both by the light/sun and the mirror/reflection.
The mirror represents the plasma field.
The reflection of the light represents the reflecting hologram off the moon held in the plasma field.

I've never seen a plasma field does anyone kno what shape they adopt?


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## wild heretic (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: wild hereticDate: 2020-02-12 11:39:01Reaction Score: 7




Bunnyman said:


> Dear Sir or Madam, I find it unfortunate that you seem the kill the fun for all with your definite assessment of the case. Kindly provide some detailed descriptions on your theory of celestial movements etc. to counter this "dead end theory" for the entertainment of the open minded folks in this place. I am in particular curious on your supposition on how humanity for centuries have been able to observe the same night skies and constellations while supposedly hurling and whirling and spiraling at dazzling speed through an ever expanding universe....
> 
> I would be much obliged to provide this tread and the posited reality of celestial objects with additional information that shed some more historical, factual, information on *terrestrial continuity*, celestial objects and optics in response.
> 
> In the meantime please stroll through the footage below. Spoiler alert: United States Space Farce footage(4:05 - 6:44) is interesting and telling to say the least.


You know what I mean surely?

Polaris not moving and stars moving one way in the northern hemisphere with completely different stars rotating in the opposite direction in the southern hemisphere. How can that work in a flat or bowl earth?

Flight times don't work either, so we need some very special speculative hypothesis for that one.

Or we can say the theory is extremely likely to be wrong and look at what we have and see if we can form a new model based on that.


jd755 said:


> The op videographer proves his theory with a cereal bowl, a light in a darkened room, a hand held camera and a FLAT mirror angled against the wall.
> The light represents the sun.
> The cereal bowl represents the crater lit both by the light/sun and the mirror/reflection.
> The mirror represents the plasma field.
> ...


I'd like to see that. Is it in another video?


whitewave said:


> Seems the convex model of Earth would be easiest to prove or disprove simply by comparing sea levels around the world. Since we already have that information, can it not be used to determine if the "sides of the bowl" are at a higher level than the "bottom of the bowl"? Sorry if that's a stupid question.


No question is stupid. The answer to that would be "the center of gravity" if you know what I mean.

Measuring curvature is notoriously difficult as we found out on my forum. Copying something like the rectilineator experiment is a huge feat. That is basically what you wish to measure I think. Teed measured sea levels relative to physical straightness (the rectilineator) over a long enough distance to determine curvature.

In fairness to the OP, he thinks out of the box which is commendable, but that's all he has going for him in my opinion.

As usual with Youtube, the videos are usually rubbish, but there is always one or two comments that are absolutely golden. Here is one:


> Wow. I've found I'm asking another question that seems obvious but is never asked. Here it is.. It's know fact that when the moon is eclipsing the sun, it creates a 70km wide shadow on earth as it travels across. Whenever the moon is eclipsing the sun, let's say over us for example, the shadow quickly travels from state to state, as it's only a 70km wide shadow. It never fully eclipses the entire earth, but only 70km shadow in size. (Ok, I've repeated myself to drive the point home) SO WHY ARE WE TOLD THE MOON IS SO MUCH BIGGER THAN 70KM Wide? It's impossible for a shadow to be SMALLER than the itself (the object creating the shadow)  A shadow will only ever be LARGER than itself. Try it yourself. Get a flashlight. Point it at the wall. Hold a ball in front creating a shadow. Now try make that shadow SMALLER than the ball you're holding. YOU CAN'T. It's impossible. What does this mean? It means a big moon cannot cast a small 70km wide shadow across the earth. For it to cast a 70km wide shadow across the earth, IT HAS TO BE 70KM WIDE. How come no one has asked or figured this out yet, why am I the only one...  Mind blowing.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-02-12 12:36:34Reaction Score: 1




wild heretic said:


> I'd like to see that. Is it in another video?


The final proof video on the op's channel.


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## wild heretic (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: wild hereticDate: 2020-02-12 12:54:28Reaction Score: 1




jd755 said:


> The final proof video on the op's channel.



Thanks for that. In a way, it could support the moon being the back of the sun, which is the theory I uphold. Anyway, best not digress here.


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## Knowncitizen (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: knowncitizenDate: 2020-02-12 13:11:19Reaction Score: 2




wild heretic said:


> Thanks for that. In a way, it could support the moon being the back of the sun, which is the theory I uphold. Anyway, best not digress here.


How can the moon be the back of the sun if both are visible on multiple days a month?


jd755 said:


> The final proof video on the op's channel.


How can the moon be a reflection of anything if it casts a 70km wide shadow during an eclipse? Reflections would have no means of blocking light?


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## codis (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: codisDate: 2020-02-12 13:44:50Reaction Score: 1




jd755 said:


> he final proof video on the op's channel.


I generally expect final proof from YT videos.


knowncitizen said:


> How can the moon be the back of the sun if both are visible on multiple days a month?
> ...
> How can the moon be a reflection of anything if it casts a 70km wide shadow during an eclipse? Reflections would have no means of blocking light?


By doublethink.


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## dreamtime (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: dreamtimeDate: 2020-02-12 14:11:09Reaction Score: 1




knowncitizen said:


> How can the moon be the back of the sun if both are visible on multiple days a month?


the short answer is bendy light and magnetism, but probably better to discuss in the concave earth thread or at wildheretic.com/forum


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## wild heretic (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: wild hereticDate: 2020-02-12 15:02:52Reaction Score: 1




knowncitizen said:


> How can the moon be the back of the sun if both are visible on multiple days a month?


That's another huge topic needing illustrations and several days study and writing. I don't want to go into that here. I mentioned it in more detail on my forum but still only a very brief outline. It works very well in the concave earth model. I haven't worked out every aspect, just most of it.


> How can the moon be a reflection of anything if it casts a 70km wide shadow during an eclipse? Reflections would have no means of blocking light?


In my theory, eclipses are due to light interference, especially Saros eclipses.
Wave interference - Wikipedia

Anyway, this topic is far too big for this forum and it isn't the place. This topic and earth shape cannot be investigated properly on this forum. A cursory outline is fine, but mega details are even too big for my forum which is dedicated to that very topic. Lots of articles, or a small paper could describe the moon well. My blog article on the moon is out of date and doesn't reflect my current opinion.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-02-12 16:18:50Reaction Score: 1




knowncitizen said:


> How can the moon be a reflection of anything if it casts a 70km wide shadow during an eclipse? Reflections would have no means of blocking light?


In theory land anything is possible especially when the things being observed are beyond our reach. The lack of practical demonstration results in theories.
All I can say about the moon is it appears to be a light in the day and night skies with less brilliance than the other light in the day sky, the sun.



codis said:


> I generally expect final proof from YT videos.


It gets better he mentons believers right at the end.

Still nothing on the Sputnik questions and still nothing on what shape a plasma field adopts.


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## Bunnyman (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: BunnymanDate: 2020-02-13 09:26:56Reaction Score: 1


My apologies to everyone on here as slinging mud (flows) at one another should be avoided, as I feel we should have respect for every ones own cognitive abilities and state of unique mind. In a previous reply, you seemed to simply "end" the whole case in question based on whatever your rationale is.

I am aware that you have a history of inquisitiveness based on "your site". And I respect that. However I do feel that with the following reply:



> Anyway, this topic is far too big for this forum and it isn't the place. This topic and earth shape cannot be investigated properly on this forum. A cursory outline is fine, but mega details are even too big for my forum which is dedicated to that very topic. Lots of articles, or a small paper could describe the moon well. My blog article on the moon is out of date and doesn't reflect my current opinion.


you are continuing to marginalize. Not appreciated in my book and and a little humbleness and open mindedness would go along way to maintain respect for each member's contribution to unravel the obscurities of our realm. The same goes for grilling providers of either written or audio/visual information based on how well the material is polished for consumption. It's about hitting the "note" of truth and even if one may not succeed in supplying a fully digestible proposition, to throw out the baby with the bathwater can be considered a foolish thing to do.

I have to apologize for the timing of my messages as it seems there is a delay (in this case a day) for the posts appearing in the tread as I am still "on probation". However, and due to that fact I will cut and paste my previous reply as i feel the questions raised have merit and the issue may have far reaching consequences.

So sorry KD, I hope I am not in breach by re-posting in this case.



> I was hoping to focus this tread on the evidence and conjectures made by the gentleman who made the first posted video and previous and subsequent material on his channel. Discussions on theories of alternative habitats have been provided for.
> 
> Personally, and in light of evidences, I am inclined to give this possibility a big nod. And the consequences are no small matter in my mind. That does not necessarily mean that I plant my stick in it, but I surely have a poke at it.
> 
> ...


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Bear ClawDate: 2020-02-14 12:10:34Reaction Score: 0




knowncitizen said:


> How can the moon be the back of the sun if both are visible on multiple days a month?
> 
> How can the moon be a reflection of anything if it casts a 70km wide shadow during an eclipse? Reflections would have no means of blocking light?


if it is not the literal back of the sun, but a reflection off something like a huge reflective dome? Maybe. Just thinking of possibles....


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: MrB0N3sDate: 2020-02-14 12:56:59Reaction Score: 6


The earth shape is an absolute parable of unreasonable perception. I think one requires a tinge of insanity to successfully figure out such an illogical puzzle, rather we do not have the right pieces in view, and natural optical illusion adds a further complication. When considering all the arguments available there does not seem to be an easy way to answer this without vivid imagination and head scratching, but a common theme is either an illusory lack of curvature or an illusory boundary of how the horizons curvature acts either in a convex or concave fashion.
The entity we call our turtle island floating in space may as well be architected given all the easter eggs left around to see, there is a clockwork of astrology that cements us in familiarity despite the ticking of hours passing and several thousand cyclical reruns.

From the perspective of a pilot you might think you have a great view of gargantuan marbeline earth, but if anything it further reinforces how small you are next to nature, to be so high above and still have uncertainty lay beyond the stretching horizons.
And indeed a higher up perspective and that curvature looks a lot flatter than the ground level, it seems our little peepers give a very limited and illusory perspective of reality, our eyes on eyes are puny in comparison to any perspective whether mountains high or empty badlands, we truly are vexed by curiosity and determined intuition despite our senses inability to pick up on vast scales and varieties of information, pattern recognition be damned.
One should be sure to understand the lesson that flight teaches, that the birds still must play by natures rules, flowing within the gale's polar, solar, lunar, and oceanic attuned currents of sky. Perhaps we must play by the rules instead of flipping the table.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Bear ClawDate: 2020-02-16 16:50:00Reaction Score: 5




jd755 said:


> Still nothing on the Sputnik questions and still nothing on what shape a plasma field adopts.


I have debated long and hard about posting this, and have decided to do so anyway. I do not want to promote drug use, and would like to make clear that I don't think you should take such things without being confident in yourself and having thought long and hard about doing so - also if suggesting such goes against the spirit of the forum, apologies -  It is either evidence or not evidence, I have no idea.

However on a number of occasions when I have taken hallucinogenic mushrooms, I have gone out underneath the stars, and the entire cosmos has turned into a huge pink purple dance of starry lights. very much like if you google image plasma ball, however on a much vaster scale. Underneath which I observed that the stars and myriad lights move organically within a chaotic pattern, that I found reacted to music I was listening to in my head. I felt on occasions that it was influenced by my head and I could exert some kind of 'control' (perhaps have an effect on the lights) but also I felt overwhelmed by what I saw, and that it had an effect upon me.

Whether what you observe in these states is real or imaginary, I do not know. However, that is what I have seen, on a number of occasions, and if very very closely resembled a plasma field.

Do I think what I saw was real? I think the only objectively true answer I can give to that, is that I don't know.


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## Mike Nolan (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: WarningGuyDate: 2020-02-17 13:27:58Reaction Score: 5




Bear Claw said:


> I have debated long and hard about posting this, and have decided to do so anyway. I do not want to promote drug use, and would like to make clear that I don't think you should take such things without being confident in yourself and having thought long and hard about doing so - also if suggesting such goes against the spirit of the forum, apologies -  It is either evidence or not evidence, I have no idea.
> 
> However on a number of occasions when I have taken hallucinogenic mushrooms, I have gone out underneath the stars, and the entire cosmos has turned into a huge pink purple dance of starry lights. very much like if you google image plasma ball, however on a much vaster scale. Underneath which I observed that the stars and myriad lights move organically within a chaotic pattern, that I found reacted to music I was listening to in my head. I felt on occasions that it was influenced by my head and I could exert some kind of 'control' (perhaps have an effect on the lights) but also I felt overwhelmed by what I saw, and that it had an effect upon me.
> 
> ...


Ok im going to have to apologize up front also if this does not fit forum policy.  For many years now i have been looking,watching and reading trying to find some answers to the age old questions and yet have not had much luck going that way about it.    In my search over time i came across the Spanish inquisition which got me wondering why would it be that our so called almighty loving God the creator of all living things want to send an army out upon the earth to rape, torture and kill in his name ?  They say it was to save the souls of the godless heathens.  Well i think that was total bullshit. It was to go out and destroy every indigenous culture that existed on this planet in peace for tens of thousands of years.   How did they live peacefully for that long, well because they all took some sort of hallucinogen that they had native to there area.   They took psychedelics because it showed them the answers. The answers to the very questions we can't seem to find in this modern day.   The church has never wanted peace and by no means does it want us to have the answers.  Now here is the reason for me apologizing.    This got me thinking ok i can't find answers the way i was looking before lets see what taking psychedelics will do in my quest.  Well ive been taking psychedelics now for a few years (on a strict format) and i must say it is the most amazing beautiful, loving, incredible thing ever.  Its a fantastic learning and guidance tool.  I can get answers now without even asking the questions.   Please take note i am NOT condoning the use of anything that they say will harm you.  Also remember everything they have ever told us is a lie so why should we believe them when they say its harmful to take drugs.  The two most dangerous drugs on the planet are the legal ones anyway.  The only reason psychedelics are illegal is because they show you what TPTB don't want us to see.
Probable get banded for this one. 
Love and peace.


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## codis (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: codisDate: 2020-02-17 14:33:32Reaction Score: 1




WarningGuy said:


> The only reason psychedelics are illegal is because they show you what TPTB don't want us to see.


The qestion remains, is it reality what you see under influence of psychedelic drugs ?
Or is it just made up by your intoxicated brain ?
Not that I have an answer.


WarningGuy said:


> Probable get banded for this one.


I don't mind. You health, your problem.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: MrB0N3sDate: 2020-02-17 14:34:04Reaction Score: 5


I'll have to admit while on that Luxiourious Sanctid Daydream, I too have seen things I could not, and the great thing is I had a partner who could corroborate what was real in that state of mind. By no means should anyone urge the use of anything life altering but yeah, lets be real, hallucinogens change the game so it can no longer be played the same again. I have seen for instance, an electrical dome over the earth, it was made of interlocking hexagons, and each constellation of stars was linked by beams of light like the stereotypical asterism star chart hovering in space, if we both saw it independant of eachother were we actually hallucinating or seeing something extra perceptive? 
Anything that wakes you up or gives you spiritual enlightenment is made illegal or difficult to access, it should be no surprise the religions pushed on us are part of denying true spirituality. So my question then is there a reason we could see the dome and see it was made of hexagonal shapes? Let me explain too, we both saw it independantly and then concurred with the other, we did not "see what we wanted" we saw what was shown.


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## Bunnyman (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: BunnymanDate: 2020-02-17 14:49:04Reaction Score: 3


I get that the previous posters are discussing possible "exercises" that may aid in removing or detecting the veil, but I would like to blatantly re-post the following questions. As I hope those can be discussed here in light of the possibility that the "moon" is the continued land mass that is attached to ours and that authorities have accessed this terrain and obscure such from the sheeple.

Can we discard for example (and these are just a few):

- the exact matches of the to us known shapes of terrestrial areas found to match the patterns of the " celestial moon";
- the doubtful and often refuted existence and exploration of "outer space" as we are being told;
- Operation High Jump and Operations Deep Freeze under command of Admiral Bird after WW2 to Arctic and Antarctic respectively;
- This Admiral disclosed that there are lands beyond the "know world" rich in resources;
- The Fact that shortly after the UN was erected and declared both "Poles" off-limit accept for officiates;
- The US are now in the process to erect a "merchant marine" for the "ocean that is space" and talk of a large land area at the distance of 3 days travel also rich in resources;
- many on this forum obviously feel that our "history has been stolen", and many expose the many lies TPTB sold us and are selling us. What would be different here?


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-02-17 15:39:10Reaction Score: 1




Bunnyman said:


> - the exact matches of the to us known shapes of terrestrial areas found to match the patterns of the " celestial moon";


I have no faith whatsoever in the idea of known shapes of terrestril areas. It is equally possible the folks who push the known shape simply took the shapes on the moon and applied them to the terrestrial lands.


Bunnyman said:


> - the doubtful and often refuted existence and exploration of "outer space" as we are being told;


To me there is no doubt that there is no outer space. What they are refeering to as 'outer' is everything physically outside of 'us'.  


Bunnyman said:


> Operation High Jump and Operations Deep Freeze under command of Admiral Bird after WW2 to Arctic and Antarctic respectively;


Again to me the evidence for either of these expeditions being what they are told to be is sketchy. It is beyond credibility for me that only one Admiral and a flight sergeant 'spoke' about what was alleged to be found speaks volumes. If there were thousands there someone else would have picked up on the scuttlebut and wrote something down or spoke to relatives when they got back or blown a whistle somehow or other.
Smacks of rule by authority speaking to me. Star Trek is where senior officers are sent on explorations not in the real world, again to me always to me.


Bunnyman said:


> The Fact that shortly after the UN was erected and declared both "Poles" off-limit accept for officiates;


I don't know but the League of Nations was the predecessor to the United Nations did that organisation have an Antarctic Treaty?


Bunnyman said:


> The US are now in the process to erect a "merchant marine" for the "ocean that is space" and talk of a large land area at the distance of 3 days travel also rich in resources;


I know nothing of this.


Bunnyman said:


> many on this forum obviously feel that our "history has been stolen", and many expose the many lies TPTB sold us and are selling us. What would be different here?


The only difference is the notion of a holographic moon projected by some unknown focussing reflective process of sunlight reflecting off of the earth to be held in a plasma field is in the realm of theory. The other points are in the realm of 'official history'.


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## Bunnyman (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: BunnymanDate: 2020-02-17 15:45:14Reaction Score: 0


[QUOTE


> The US are now in the process to erect a "merchant marine" for the "ocean that is space" and talk of a large land area at the distance of 3 days travel also rich in resources;


I know nothing of this. 
[/QUOTE]
I am afraid that you didn't read this post thoroughly then.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-02-17 16:16:10Reaction Score: 1




Bunnyman said:


> [QUOTE
> 
> I know nothing of this.


I am afraid that you didn't read this post thoroughly then.
[/QUOTE]
Sorry you will have to be more blatant. I don't and never have got subtle references.


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## Mike Nolan (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: WarningGuyDate: 2020-02-17 19:43:52Reaction Score: 3




codis said:


> The qestion remains, is it reality what you see under influence of psychedelic drugs ?


I can not answer that because of i have no idea what reality is anymore ?  To me i thought reality was what i seen and did in my day to day life like 99% of the people here on what ever it is we live on/in but thats not the case anymore.  Do you think this is reality we are experiencing here at this moment ?  It could be a matrix or just a dream or could it be something else like a psychedelic trip.  


codis said:


> Or is it just made up by your intoxicated brain ?


To me the meaning of being intoxicated is to be drunk with no control over ones self, to have short term memory loss and a hangover that lasts the whole of the next day.   I do not have any of that when taking psychedelics.  What i experence when the trip is over i can sit relaxed and think clearly about what i just experienced and then have a wonderful nights sleep without the hangover the next day.   Oh and by the way its not like i do it everyday/week/month.  On average maybe four time a year and only do it when i feel the timing is right.


codis said:


> I don't mind. You health, your problem.


Yes it is my health and after taking psychedelics the first couple of times it showed me how messed up my life and health were so i stopped smoking, gave up alcohol which had quite a hold on me, stopped eating all the shit i used to like processed foods, take aways and sodas, moved as far as possible from the stressful polluted cities, now have an holistic approach to what i should do for my health while staying far away from pharmaceuticals. Im now growing my own organic food to eat while also selling it to others.  So i would say taking psychedelics has and never will be a problem. I would say that psychedelics have been very beneficial to my health and well being.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Bear ClawDate: 2020-02-17 20:38:37Reaction Score: 1




codis said:


> The qestion remains, is it reality what you see under influence of psychedelic drugs ?
> Or is it just made up by your intoxicated brain ?
> Not that I have an answer.


I see your point here and it is a very very good one. I honestly don't know and have no answer. One could extend that to even seeing not under the influence however. And I would suspect with regards to any firmament, it is probably easier to prove whether what one sees in these situations is real or not real, than what the nature of our atmosphere by affordable means with the power to convince others. Although also maybe not.

 I do feel that the amount of people that see similar stuff despite no link is a plausible reason to accept what one sees is real. For some reason I refuse to direct link to 'shroomery' or 'reddit' but one can corroborate quite easily that staring at the night sky on a trip, a number of people see similar things. Just google night sky on mushrooms. Anyway it is what it is and I know not what that is. 

Correct me if I am wrong but I don't believe Science has a definitive answer over whether the brain acts as an internal generator of thoughts, or acts like an aerial. Or both or neither.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: SearchingDate: 2020-02-17 21:02:52Reaction Score: 3


I find everyone on this forum to be very intelligent and well-researched.

Yet, still, there is not a consensus... There is not a consensus, and never will there be an opportunity for any of us to venture to the edge of an ice wall or propel ourselves into space.

We can argue over perceptions, but the one constant is that we are not allowed proof or facts to substantiate any claim... Perhaps that is where our discussion should begin, meaning, perhaps we should discard all shapes given to us by untrustworthy sources and let go of shape altogether.

What does that discussion look like?


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-02-17 21:07:13Reaction Score: 1




Searching said:


> What does that discussion look like?


Bewilderment.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: SearchingDate: 2020-02-17 21:12:26Reaction Score: 3




jd755 said:


> Bewilderment.


Why? Is it because we are ill-equipped to hold conversations not based in the physical? Probably... but opening up that door... Man, opening up that door is the same as beginning the journey anew. 

I remember being unable to conceive flat earth as I had been so mired in a globe. Bursting through that box was eye-opening. We never stop learning; we do, however, find new avenues. Avenues that before were inconceivable.


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## Timeshifter (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: TimeshifterDate: 2020-02-17 21:22:31Reaction Score: 2


As I have said elsewhere on the forum, my research has led me to deduce that in all probability we exist in an holographic universe.

From this perspective, a simple answer for me for all of these questions is, optical (mind) illusions and pre programmed dillusions

These are everywhere in daily life, and often depend on time, place, view, mood, mindset, programming, etc.

Apporach everything that you 'think' you can see with this mind set.

In a holographic universe, solidety is only a belief, not a reality.

Once you get past the solid, many things make much more sence. It may seem about bit easy to explain things away with 'Optical illusion' but we accept so many of these, why not stretch to some more, less obvious ones?


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-02-17 21:22:47Reaction Score: 5


No just generallyI feel it would be one of bewilderment. People feel safe in the take it for granted world. They may not agree with any of it but if it means they don't have to think about it because someone else is then that's okay.
For me I have no idea what 'here is' where it is, I don't feel I am equipped to evaluate the shape of the earth but am equipped to explore it, physically and 'mentally' (don't like thtat word one bit) or as some name it spiritually.
Discovering the extent of the plane, for I know it's not a globe/ball/oblate spheroid just as I know it isn't spinning (my sense and the behaviour of water reveal these things) but assuming there is a prime mover, an intelligence, a process or beardy man in  the sky which is running the show then it stands to reason I and everything else is the prime mover/process/beardy man in the sky. It seems inpossible to be anything else.

The notion that I am somehow separate from the screen you are reading or indeed whatever it is you consider yourself to be has erided away o the point of non exustence.

The only thing stopping exploration of boundaries using any substance, form of locomotion is our addiction to rule by authority, it seems to me.
The militaries oif the world are not there to protect people they are there to keep people from enaging with their natural urge to explore as are all the machinations of what we get told is 'civilised society'.
Space the final frontier someone once said.


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## dreamtime (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: dreamtimeDate: 2020-02-17 21:36:11Reaction Score: 2




Bunnyman said:


> I can only say: check your dogma's at the door. This gentleman has his ducks in a row and I advise checking his earlier videos to get a grip on where we may live...


Every concept that involves us living inside _something_ is going into the right direction, even if it is based upon faulty reasoning, like this moon theory. It makes people think in terms of ideas that put meaning back into the world.

Instead of arguing about the exact shape, it would be more fruitful to acknowledge an enclosed realm of sorts, and then continue from that. 

On the practical side, we would need a big movement of people actually trying to escape from this realm. Since the control over this realm is almost absolute, everyone attempting such a journey will quickly be subverted.

I think there was an attempt at the beginning of the 20th century, but some people who were involved died before the journey to the supposed inner earth could be started. That was at the time when many people still believed in earth being a place to explore, but obviousy this is no longer the case today, as peoples' attention is being focused on empty space, away from the important things.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: SearchingDate: 2020-02-17 21:41:33Reaction Score: 1




jd755 said:


> No just generallyI feel it would be one of bewilderment. People feel safe in the take it for granted world.


But we don't feel safe, do we? We feel lied to. We feel untethered. It is these feelings that cause us to look for a scape goat - NASA or the government.

Looking for a place to lay blame solves nothing unless we are willing to look all the way back to the impetus, which is us. We believed the "lies" and funded the government that "lied" to us. Ultimately, the blame resides with us.

Once one inherits that responsibility, he is defeated (which no ego wants), so he expands his search. This egotistical need to shirk blame is helpful, though, as it causes one to consider other possibilities.

At the end of those possibilities, one can see that he is, in fact, to blame; that it was no one outside who hatched this deceit or put it into action. No, it was us, playing a game with ourselves.

There are so many levels of comprehension, but they all begin and end the same: "I want to know...", "I have learned...", "I have been lied to...", "I have discovered...".

The common denominator is "I", and the goal is to come full circle back to the "I". But that is not the end of the journey. It is not a circle. It is a spiral. Each time we come back to center with new information, then we head out again. On and on we go; where it stops, I don't know.


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## EUAFU (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: EUAFUDate: 2020-02-17 22:13:18Reaction Score: 1




WarningGuy said:


> Ok im going to have to apologize up front also if this does not fit forum policy.  For many years now i have been looking,watching and reading trying to find some answers to the age old questions and yet have not had much luck going that way about it.    In my search over time i came across the Spanish inquisition which got me wondering why would it be that our so called almighty loving God the creator of all living things want to send an army out upon the earth to rape, torture and kill in his name ?  They say it was to save the souls of the godless heathens.  Well i think that was total bullshit. It was to go out and destroy every indigenous culture that existed on this planet in peace for tens of thousands of years.   How did they live peacefully for that long, well because they all took some sort of hallucinogen that they had native to there area.   They took psychedelics because it showed them the answers. The answers to the very questions we can't seem to find in this modern day.   The church has never wanted peace and by no means does it want us to have the answers.  Now here is the reason for me apologizing.    This got me thinking ok i can't find answers the way i was looking before lets see what taking psychedelics will do in my quest.  Well ive been taking psychedelics now for a few years (on a strict format) and i must say it is the most amazing beautiful, loving, incredible thing ever.  Its a fantastic learning and guidance tool.  I can get answers now without even asking the questions.   Please take note i am NOT condoning the use of anything that they say will harm you.  Also remember everything they have ever told us is a lie so why should we believe them when they say its harmful to take drugs.  The two most dangerous drugs on the planet are the legal ones anyway.  The only reason psychedelics are illegal is because they show you what TPTB don't want us to see.
> Probable get banded for this one.
> Love and peace.


In fact, Native Americans did not live in peace as Westerners like to imagine. Several conquerors were helped by tribes who opposed each other and lived to slaughter themselves. Native Americans were not angels as some assume. They were like humans at any latitude with their merits and demerits. As for using God's name to justify your actions, well, God has nothing to do with it. And how do I kill a person and justify saying that "God, Allah, Buddha, Khali, Marduk" ordered and that the gold I stole from that person was the payment for fulfilling the divine work.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Red BirdDate: 2020-02-18 02:02:17Reaction Score: 1


I just got done reading _Under an Ionized Sky,_ by Elena Freeland.
I believe she took all the information she could gather and put it together and came up with the space fence. A lot of the info is true but some probably isn’t.
fFor instance you can tell it assumes mainline space. However reading it you can extrapolate all of it practically, to be taking place under a dome or firmament If you have an idea this may exist.  It would even make a space fence even more achievable.

It‘s a great book, and you can learn a lot from it, even knowing some will be disinformation from the sources. That’s what we’ve got And we know they let info out in dribbles, etc.  We also have the Bible (for now) as the baseline in my opinion.

Reading, taking a break from reading and the internet, and just taking time to think is less common now.  We are more creative, and trustworthy, than entities conjured from super computers, so called particle accelerators, and drugs. If you start sounding like Geordie Rose time to step back. That’s a joke...sort of.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: OskarSnaefelDate: 2020-02-18 04:25:41Reaction Score: 0




Searching said:


> Why? Is it because we are ill-equipped to hold conversations not based in the physical? Probably... but opening up that door... Man, opening up that door is the same as beginning the journey anew.
> 
> I remember being unable to conceive flat earth as I had been so mired in a globe. Bursting through that box was eye-opening. We never stop learning; we do, however, find new avenues. Avenues that before were inconceivable.


This is great because again another box was busted today with this thread. We live in a crater? The moon is actually...us? Fascinating really.


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## Bunnyman (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: BunnymanDate: 2020-02-18 05:15:52Reaction Score: 1


I apologize in advance for hurting anyone's feelings here. I have to admit that life taught me to not be very socially minded or socially correct. I never had any social media accounts etc. I have always felt out of place, and I sorta came to terms with that and with the fact that we indeed are all zombies to some degree. 

Anyways, this post was not meant for discussion of earth shapes. Although it's inherent it woven through this topic. I think that much that can be found in this tread is worthy of contemplation. However, the information on the many topics on this site alone makes many a mind spinning. And so, one is likely prone to skip over info that is "right in your face". And thereby missing the boat. (why does it feel like I am selling something?).

Some of such information is on a recent recording of a lecture of retired Air Force General Mr. Steven Kwast. To me it is hard to fathom that anyone exposed to it is so asleep that they would not "get the message".

For you're perusal, I wrote out the said footage in the below excerpt. I would be interested in your assessment of what is actually revealed here.

Mr. Steven Kwast:

"why do we need a Space Force? Because it's an economic competition. For the values of the future.

When do we need it? Now!

What does it need to do? It doesn't have to have war fighting capability. It has to be able to defend the economy of space. A Coast Guard. A merchant marine for space.

Let's say we're in Miami and we're looking out over the wide open ocean. That ocean is deep space. The orbit around the earth is the shoreline where the waves are crashing. The deep water is space!

And there is a continent out there three times the size of Africa. That's the Moon! And nobody lives there.

It's only three days away. It has massive amounts of everything that mother earth has. To include water.

On the South Pole in the craters, greater than the Great Lakes as far as volume."


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-02-18 09:32:56Reaction Score: 0


Now I understand your esrlier request. I don't follow news these days and when I did it was rarely US military news, forgive me.

First off. His name Kwast leapt off of the page. I find it nteresting how people with weird surnames are often doing the 'reveaing' of information that gets sold as revealing.

Then after reading through your transcript it felt like he was pitching for funding using the scare of "if we don't get there first someone else will and they will control it not us".

He is only a general so still wiithin the hierarchy of authority so a superior has authorised his speech.

I then went to startpage to find out more and tis is what he served up.
Steve Kwast - Foreign Policy
_Steve Kwast is a Lieutenant General and commander of Recruiting, Training, Educating and Development for the Air Force. He is an astronautical engineer and Harvard Fellow in Public Policy._

So a man with a vested interest in 'the final frontier'

In August 2019 he penned this article
America Is Losing the Second Space Race to China

This site Breaking Defense
had this
_If the new Acting Secretary of the Air Force, Matt Donovan, is looking for someone who can “unleash the power of space’ he should look to the bold leadership of Steve Kwast and recommend his nomination to be the first Space Force Commander._

This bit rather flies in the face of the words about 'fighting capability''
doublespeak done for the intented audience as far as I can tell.

_The head of the Air Force’s Quadrennial Defense Review office made very clear today that the service will do all it can to protect the F-35 for a pretty compelling reason: *“We must be able to project power in contested environments* (A2/AD) and the Joint Strike Fighter is that machine.” Kwast told reporters after his public…_

So to me the content of the speech is for the conspiracy community to use. China is the bogeyman once again, bogeyman to people who regard themselves as Americans even those this man is employed by the United States.
False Evidence Appearing Real seems to be the modus operandii of those who seek to deceive and has been for a long time as this sites many
and varied contributions reveals.


Searching said:


> Looking for a place to lay blame solves nothing unless we are willing to look all the way back to the impetus, which is us. We believed the "lies" and funded the government that "lied" to us. Ultimately, the blame resides with us.


I find this discussion fascinating, pity it's on bunnymans moon projection thread so for bevity's sake, we are the source of everything.


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## codis (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: codisDate: 2020-02-18 12:13:36Reaction Score: 0




WarningGuy said:


> To me i thought reality was what i seen and did in my day to day life like 99% of the people here on what ever it is we live on/in but thats not the case anymore. Do you think this is reality we are experiencing here at this moment ? It could be a matrix or just a dream or could it be something else like a psychedelic trip.


What bothers me are the many known CIA agents and PTB shills that promoted and promote the use of psychedelics. It was very useful in breaking up the US antiwar movement in the '60s and '70s, and I suppose sinister intents behind it even today.
Just my thoughts.


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## Mike Nolan (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: WarningGuyDate: 2020-02-18 14:22:45Reaction Score: 2




codis said:


> Just my thoughts.


Isn't it wonderful that the humans race are able to have different thoughts and opinions on some things than others.  How boring would it be if we all thought the same thing.  But the way the world is going it won't be to far into the future and we will have the thought police searching out thought crime.


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## codis (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: codisDate: 2020-02-18 14:52:54Reaction Score: 2




WarningGuy said:


> But the way the world is going it won't be to far into the future and we will have the thought police searching out thought crime.


I grew up under a communist regime, with such a thought police in place. Everything else then the official party line was suspicious, and under surveillance.
In the West, we are almost there again.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: CasimirDate: 2020-02-18 15:36:52Reaction Score: 1




> What bothers me are the many known CIA agents and PTB shills that promoted and promote the use of psychedelics


I think there's a fine line when it comes to psychedelics. It's a given that CIA/MKUltra were heavily involved in the entirety of the hippy scene- a serious sample of artists of the day had high ranking military officials as parents for example. Dave McGowan did a lot of good work compiling these facts. That being said, its not surprising to me that psychedelics have been in use in secret societies for as long as we can remember either- TPB definitely see these as a matter of control. I truly think there's esoteric knowledge that comes with psychedelics- certain ones at least. If anything its good for your brain to fundamentally see something that you know can not be true- and yet there it is- and subconsciously letting that affect your passive perception in general. 

I'm ridiculously tall, to the extent if I go to a music festival I am definitely wearing polarized sunglasses because if I don't I wont survive the light shows. Being in a... unique state with a unique view of the goings-about around me, I can't help but wonder about all these other people contorting to music- I spend a lot of time just observing those around me instead of getting blinded by the lights. I always catch myself wondering what "the play" is at drug heavy music festivals. I'm sure festival runners / artists / somebody makes a cut on all the drugs trafficked there- but is that it? TPB are experts at multifaceted approaches.  Knowing what I know about secret societies and MK Ultra's use of psychedelics, I can't help but think there's something else going on beyond capitalists capitalizing. People can say all they want about music festivals and comradery and all that stuff, but the fact is drug trafficking and use is made extremely easy in these environments and I can't help but think its for more than just money.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Tool18Date: 2020-02-18 16:48:32Reaction Score: 0




WarningGuy said:


> Ok im going to have to apologize up front also if this does not fit forum policy.  For many years now i have been looking,watching and reading trying to find some answers to the age old questions and yet have not had much luck going that way about it.    In my search over time i came across the Spanish inquisition which got me wondering why would it be that our so called almighty loving God the creator of all living things want to send an army out upon the earth to rape, torture and kill in his name ?  They say it was to save the souls of the godless heathens.  Well i think that was total bullshit. It was to go out and destroy every indigenous culture that existed on this planet in peace for tens of thousands of years.   How did they live peacefully for that long, well because they all took some sort of hallucinogen that they had native to there area.   They took psychedelics because it showed them the answers. The answers to the very questions we can't seem to find in this modern day.   The church has never wanted peace and by no means does it want us to have the answers.  Now here is the reason for me apologizing.    This got me thinking ok i can't find answers the way i was looking before lets see what taking psychedelics will do in my quest.  Well ive been taking psychedelics now for a few years (on a strict format) and i must say it is the most amazing beautiful, loving, incredible thing ever.  Its a fantastic learning and guidance tool.  I can get answers now without even asking the questions.   Please take note i am NOT condoning the use of anything that they say will harm you.  Also remember everything they have ever told us is a lie so why should we believe them when they say its harmful to take drugs.  The two most dangerous drugs on the planet are the legal ones anyway.  The only reason psychedelics are illegal is because they show you what TPTB don't want us to see.
> Probable get banded for this one.
> Love and peace.


I thought you would be in to psychedelics, being a fan of the Big Lez Show haha, brilliant show. 

Sorry for being off topic.


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## Bunnyman (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: BunnymanDate: 2020-02-19 11:05:21Reaction Score: 3




> So to me the content of the speech is for the conspiracy community to use. China is the bogeyman once again, bogeyman to people who regard themselves as Americans even those this man is employed by the United States.
> False Evidence Appearing Real seems to be the modus operandii of those who seek to deceive and has been for a long time as this sites many
> and varied contributions reveals.


Can we add this to psy-op too then?


Transcript in both French and English:



> The transcript at the European Union website is deliberately inaccurate.  In the video  above, Juncker is heard very clearly referring to “plusieurs des dirigeants d’autres planètes” — the only possible accurate translation of which is “several leaders of other planets.”    The official transcript omits “d’autres planètes” and has him simply talking with “plusieurs des dirigeants,” the English equivalent of which phrase is “several executives”.    [Aware of the possibility of a hoax, I have watched the video carefully to check whether the movement of Juncker’s lips corresponds with the audio of him saying “d’autres planètes”; I have not been able to detect any discrepancy between the visual and the auditory aspects of the speech.]
> Here’s the full French transcript, followed by the English translation, of what Merkel’s protegé and EU Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker said to the European Parliament on June 28 about aliens’ anxieties following the Brexit vote in the UK:
> “Il faut savoir que ceux qui nous observent de loin, sont inquiets.  J’ai vue et entendue et écouté plusieurs des dirigeants d’autres planètes. Ils sont très inquiets parce qu’ils s’interrogent sur la voie que l’union européenne vas poursuivre. Donc il faut rassurer et les européens et ceux qui nous observent de plus loin”
> “You should know that those who observe us from afar, are worried. I have seen and heard and listened to several leaders of other planets. They are very worried because they’re wondering which way the European Union is going.  So we have to reassure both the Europeans and those who observe us from further away.”


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-02-19 11:45:11Reaction Score: 0




Bunnyman said:


> Can we add this to psy-op too then?


I don't really know what a psy op is. It sounds like a made up term put out there for the audience to use to tag events making them repetetive and therefore 'sticky' in people's attention. As false flag is used.
An authorised agenda of events seems plausible enough given the evidence availalble but that's all it is, plausible. No way for me to know for sure.

As for this Juncker chap.
He is reading from a script. You can clearly see the paper in the still on the video. He has his finger held at the line he is on because he is most likely still under the influnece of his favourite tincture. As youtube seems to be the go to source of information for many people do a search for drunk Juncker or smilar and you can see his inebriated antics for yourself.

However enough about the speaker of these word, if only we could find the author of them we might get a clearer picture of why they were written.

Here they are
“You should know that those who observe us from afar, are worried. I have seen and heard and listened to several leaders of other planets. They are very worried because they’re wondering which way the European Union is going.  So we have to reassure both the Europeans and those who observe us from further away.”       

_"Observers from afarr are worried"_

Sets a vague idea of great distance in the mind of the one listening/reading without any specifics and in that distant place there are observors. Classic neuro linguistic programming.

_" I have seen and heard and listened to several leaders of other planets."_
The European Union is a legal name it is demonstrably not a planet. Juncker is demonstrably not  a planetary leader.
Seen + heard + listened again classic NLP double empasis in the sense used to take in the spoken speech.
YOU are hearing + listening to my words.

_"They are very worried because they’re wondering which way the European Union is going. "_
So the inference in that sentence is the 'leaders of other planets' set up the European Union on earth and it's not going the way they want it too. Ergo the leader of the European Union has dropped the balll but of course they don't replace this leader with a more compliant one they leave him in place to correct his error.
The good news is the leaders of other planets are as piss poor at predicting the future as every bugger else!

_"So we have to reassure both the Europeans and those who observe us from further away"_

Who are 'we'?
Who are 'the Europeans'?
Who are 'those who observe us'?
Who are 'us'?
'Further away' from what?

Is he referring to his controllers, his overlords, his masters wherever they may be?
He makes absolutely no mention of people or countries outside of the European Union, which is the overwhelming majority in both cases, so are they the 'far away observors' he refers to?

So what do you make of the content of these two speeches?

Here's google translates version taken from the linked EU press release page which laughingly is in French and German only, no English and no option o the page to change the language to English. 

You should know that those who watch us from afar are worried. I saw, heard and listened to several of the leaders. They are very worried because they are wondering which way the European Union will go. And so we must reassure both Europeans and those who observe us from a distance.

Spot the differences?


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: TartarHeirDate: 2020-02-19 12:07:49Reaction Score: 0




Searching said:


> I find everyone on this forum to be very intelligent and well-researched.
> 
> Yet, still, there is not a consensus... There is not a consensus, and never will there be an opportunity for any of us to venture to the edge of an ice wall or propel ourselves into space.
> 
> ...



Hello, there is still one possibility to explore, even under Admirality law, but it is not an easy one, but I think with good resources managable. 
We should build an airship, than we can fake  malfunction and it will drift by wind. Yes off course, they can shoot us down. 
So the most important thing is not to give up Hope, because it is nearly all we have


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## codis (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: codisDate: 2020-02-19 12:21:01Reaction Score: 1




jd755 said:


> As for this Juncker chap.
> ... because he is most likely still under the influnece of his favourite tincture.


If it's the same I heard, the tincture usually has 40% of non-water content.
Didn't Lagarde, head of IMF then, make an equally strange "magic seven" public speech in 2014 ?
I view the EU as an outrageously overpaid circus.


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## Bunnyman (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: BunnymanDate: 2020-02-19 12:28:47Reaction Score: 0




> So what do you make of the content of these two speeches?


Well, I see nobody fall off their seats in the background of the video so I guess it's not a big deal or they all know he is frequently subdued and therefor not taken seriously.  But it strikes me oddly to consider this as an NLP attempt, because to me he performs as a mediocre clown. But in light with the subject of possible terrestrial extension and therefor the possibility of entities you and I are not familiar with, soft disclosures kinda don't float "in space" for me.



> _"So we have to reassure both the Europeans and those who observe us from further away"_
> 
> Who are 'we'?
> Who are 'the Europeans'?
> ...


Good questions....



> As for this Juncker chap.
> He is reading from a script. You can clearly see the paper in the still on the video. He has his finger held at the line he is on because he is most likely still under the influnece of his favourite tincture. As youtube seems to be the go to source of information for many people do a search for drunk Juncker or smilar and you can see his inebriated antics for yourself.


I do not know him personally. But you do not seem to like him much and seem to question his ability to hold a decent speech or hold his liquor. I am not sure if you intent to discredit the gentleman in order to reinforce your assumption that the message here posed for everyone's consideration has no merit other than NLP for the sheeple.



> Ergo the leader of the European Union has dropped the balll but of course they don't replace this leader with a more compliant one they leave him in place to correct his error.


For your information the President of the EU has been replaced.

The EU press release seems inaccurate according to the referred material in my foregoing post.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-02-19 12:52:18Reaction Score: 0




Bunnyman said:


> I do not know him personally. But you do not seem to like him much and seem to question his ability to hold a decent speech or hold his liquor. I am not sure if you intent to discredit the gentleman in order to reinforce your assumption that the message here posed for everyone's consideration has no merit other than NLP for the sheeple.





Bunnyman said:


> But it strikes me oddly to consider this as an NLP attempt, because to me he performs as a mediocre clown.


Now who's discrediting the gentleman.
He discredits himself with his behaviour. I've never met the bloke so it could all be an act but the reactions of the people around him when he falls over or falls into things/people suggests otherwise.
The NLP is a use of spoken words to create images in the mind as far as I can ascertain. Sometimes it leaps out what is going on and others it doesn't. I managed to realise this by doing what I just did taking the transcript line by line. The 'alternative' community use the same techniques.


Bunnyman said:


> Well, I see nobody fall off their seats in the background of the video so I guess it's not a big deal or they all know he is frequently subdued and therefor not taken seriously.


My take is the Members of the European Parliament sat around listening to him are well aware of what is being said and the proclivities of the mans behaviour under the influence. They don't react simply because the machine translation is more iikely to be the thing they heard in their earpieces or ears (if they speak french).


Bunnyman said:


> For your information the President of the EU has been replaced.


Yes by a lady. The speech of Juncker was from 2016.


Bunnyman said:


> The EU press release seems inaccurate according to the referred material in my foregoing post.


Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. How would you and I know?

Perhaps a native French speaker could drop into this thread and translate it for us.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: HeleenDate: 2020-02-22 17:28:54Reaction Score: 1




WarningGuy said:


> Ok im going to have to apologize up front also if this does not fit forum policy.  For many years now i have been looking,watching and reading trying to find some answers to the age old questions and yet have not had much luck going that way about it.    In my search over time i came across the Spanish inquisition which got me wondering why would it be that our so called almighty loving God the creator of all living things want to send an army out upon the earth to rape, torture and kill in his name ?  They say it was to save the souls of the godless heathens.  Well i think that was total bullshit. It was to go out and destroy every indigenous culture that existed on this planet in peace for tens of thousands of years.   How did they live peacefully for that long, well because they all took some sort of hallucinogen that they had native to there area.   They took psychedelics because it showed them the answers. The answers to the very questions we can't seem to find in this modern day.   The church has never wanted peace and by no means does it want us to have the answers.  Now here is the reason for me apologizing.    This got me thinking ok i can't find answers the way i was looking before lets see what taking psychedelics will do in my quest.  Well ive been taking psychedelics now for a few years (on a strict format) and i must say it is the most amazing beautiful, loving, incredible thing ever.  Its a fantastic learning and guidance tool.  I can get answers now without even asking the questions.   Please take note i am NOT condoning the use of anything that they say will harm you.  Also remember everything they have ever told us is a lie so why should we believe them when they say its harmful to take drugs.  The two most dangerous drugs on the planet are the legal ones anyway.  The only reason psychedelics are illegal is because they show you what TPTB don't want us to see.
> Probable get banded for this one.
> Love and peace.


Please don't  ever feel obliged to follow the 'rules' set down by the sick elites controlling the society we live in today. I use cannabis for relief of severe glocauma symptoms ànd I have never been so at peace with myself. I wish I had the guts to do what you are doing. Peace, love & light from a sunny South Africa!


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## Bunnyman (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: BunnymanDate: 2020-03-01 12:43:41Reaction Score: 1


C'moon, have a laugh...


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: NovaFeedbackDate: 2020-03-01 16:31:49Reaction Score: 0




Maybe said:


> I take it that the OP is promoting the same concept (but without the reflection aspect) that Korben posted about?
> 
> This:
> 
> ...


...still, no matter what, it HAS to be a ball... Now, can't you see how deep programming is? Can't you see the damned ball is so deeply hammered into people's brain that no matter what, here's the ball again.

There is no ball and there is no space. Come on. It's not THAT hard to understand and to admit.


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2020-03-01 16:37:52Reaction Score: 1




NovaFeedback said:


> There is no ball and there is no space. Come on. It's not THAT hard to understand and to admit.


Why don't you let people have their own opinions?


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: NovaFeedbackDate: 2020-03-01 16:45:12Reaction Score: 0




KorbenDallas said:


> Why don't you let people have their own opinions?


Sorry, it's my problem with the BAAL earth, I just can't stand it, so obviously fake... and impossible


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2020-03-01 16:51:37Reaction Score: 0




NovaFeedback said:


> Sorry, it's my problem with the BAAL earth, I just can't stand it, so obviously fake... and impossible


It’s only Baal earth in English, but you could look into how TPTB turned him into a bad god. This forum has other sections and topics too.


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## fabiorem (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: fabioremDate: 2020-03-01 17:04:50Reaction Score: 0




wild heretic said:


> All nice except bowl earth doesn't work either, like flat earth (star rotations in different hemispheres, flight times etc.) so that's the end of that theory.


The hemispheres used in astronomy indicates that the ancients knew about two poles: north pole and south pole.
In flat Earth theory there is only the north pole (the south pole is transformed into a ice wall), which would invalidate all their observations, and also Fomenko's calculations, which supports the phantom time hypothesis.
If you look at their map, you can notice that, when looking to south, people in different continents will look at different directions, instead of a single direction. Someone in South America will see a different cluster of stars than someone in Australia, for example. This would require more spheres of stars and constellations than the two which are used, but people in these continents are still seeing the same stars.


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## Bunnyman (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: BunnymanDate: 2020-03-01 18:26:11Reaction Score: 1


_@fabiorem_: please type in the search feature: _Giannini_ and have a read of the book available to us.

I really do not mind what shape earth we live in-on etc. But I do "care" for knowing truth, if possible. I find that in order to get anywhere close to that, one has to suspend "believe" and adopt an open approach wherein one absorbs concepts, including opposing, to arrive at a point that enables you to to form your perspective.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: NovaFeedbackDate: 2020-03-01 18:50:02Reaction Score: 1


What's beyond me, is why do people think that the lights in the sky can prove anything related to the ground we're standing upon?!?

Earth is a proven flat surface without curvature (water does not lie, men do),  and movement (except for earthquakes, and you can definitely feel them), therefore it can not be a spinning ball. It's simple, really. Everything else is lunacy.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-03-01 19:10:27Reaction Score: 0




NovaFeedback said:


> Earth is a proven flat surface


What is there in everyday lived life that proves this for you?
I know you mention water the behaviour of ccontained water is evidence of a level plane in so much as no matter what size the conrainer is the water will level itself across the container. The ocean is level wherever it meets its container. The land above the water level and the land underneath the water leve; is demonstrably not flat.

Knowing what it is we walk on is to me fundamental to figuring out why fake history is even neccessary. No-one knows what the moon is, where it is, why it is. No-one has been too it no machines have been sent to it. Here on the ground we see a light in the sky we cannot explain, we see moonlight create shadows on the ground and that is it. 
It is defintiely used as a certaintiy through historical documents and paintings it is often portrayed as being the opposite of the sun again why is not known unless duality is the only thing that is keeping the system that fakes history in play.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: NovaFeedbackDate: 2020-03-01 19:28:05Reaction Score: 0




jd755 said:


> What is there in everyday lived life that proves this for you?
> I know you mention water the behaviour of ccontained water is evidence of a level plane in so much as no matter what size the conrainer is the water will level itself across the container. The ocean is level wherever it meets its container. *The land above the water level and the land underneath the water leve; is demonstrably not flat.*
> 
> Knowing what it is we walk on is to me fundamental to figuring out why fake history is even neccessary. No-one knows what the moon is, where it is, why it is. No-one has been too it no machines have been sent to it. Here on the ground we see a light in the sky we cannot explain, we see moonlight create shadows on the ground and that is it.
> It is defintiely used as a certaintiy through historical documents and paintings it is often portrayed as being the opposite of the sun again why is not known unless duality is the only thing that is keeping the system that fakes history in play.


Of course, that was implied! Yet, relatively to how big the earth is, even the highest mountain and the deepest oceanic trench is almost nothing...

But it can be more extreme too...

Kansas Is Flatter Than a Pancake


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-03-01 19:51:15Reaction Score: 2




NovaFeedback said:


> Yet, relatively to how big the earth is, even the highest mountain and the deepest oceanic trench is almost nothing...


If the boundaries of the earth or indeed if there are any, was known there would be no need for conversations like this.
We have no idea how far land goes up and down from the level simply because we have no idea where the boundary of the contained water is.
To me the term flat is a red herring thrown out to obfuscate the demonstrable reality that contained water is level. Certainly those who argue about flat and globe, geocentric and heliocentric never mention level probably because they are on the same team.
I wonder if there is a jsesuit angle lurking about in the background somewhere. Wouldn't surprise me.


Bear Claw said:


> Do I think what I saw was real? I think the only objectively true answer I can give to that, is that I don't know.


Experience IS reality.


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