# Smithsonian: Suppressed Archaeological Finds



## Whitewave (Sep 14, 2020)

James Smithson, an ENGLISH scientist bequeathed today's equivalent of half a million dollars in 1829 to the U.S. "for the advancement and diffusion of knowledge." Congress, as is their custom, promptly invested in some bad financial deals in Arkansas (of all places) and lost the whole wad. John Quincy Adams insisted that the money be paid back so the American people bailed out the Congress who pissed away a fortune and has been paying for the "gift of the Smithsonian" ever since-usually to the tune of about 947 million dollars a year! I have to question why an English scientist would leave his fortune to Americans rather than to England but I also wonder if it similar to that India prince who gave white elephants to people he didn't like. You couldn't very well get rid of such a gift but the cost of upkeep would drive you to bankruptcy.

Smithsonian budget - FY2018


James Smithson​

Chief Justice John G. Roberts​

John Wesley Powell


Cyrus Thomas​
The Smithsonian in its current iteration includes 19 museums, a castle, a zoo, 9 research centers, laboratories, book stores, gift stores, libraries, a television channel, their own magazine, an observatory, an herbarium housing more than 4.5 million plant species. They are on you tube, flicker, facebook and are funded by the government (you and me). They also have an air and space museum (containing the Columbia module from the Apollo 11 mission). They even have their own record label (Smithsonian Folkways Recordings).

The Smithsonian is governed by a board of regents consisting of the U.S. vice president, the chief justice of the United States, three senators appointed by the president pro tempore of the Senate, three representatives appointed by the speaker of the House of Representatives, and nine U.S. citizens chosen by the board and approved by joint resolution of Congress. The board administers the Smithsonian’s budget. Trust funds account for approximately a third of the institution’s operating costs; the remainder comes largely from annual congressional appropriations.

*By law, the Chief Justice is also a member of the Board of Regents of the Smithsonian Institution and, by custom, is elected chancellor of the board. *
The Smithsonian Institution established on August 10, 1846 "for the increase and diffusion of knowledge," is a group of museums and research centers administered by the Government  of the U.S. Wiki - _Smithsonian Institution_

So now that we've established that the Smithsonian Institute is just a fun place to spend a Saturday afternoon and couldn't possibly have any political agenda despite a massive annual budget approved by Congress and consisting of a board of regents comprised of high ranking government officials, let's take a look at their history.

The cover-up and alleged suppression of archaeological evidence began in late 1881 when John Wesley Powell, the geologist famous for exploring the Grand Canyon, appointed Cyrus Thomas as the director of the Eastern Mound Division of the Smithsonian Institution's Bureau of Ethnology. Thomas was an Isolationist and a bit of a racist who thought it impossible for "savages" from one side of the Mississippi to visit the "savages" on the other side of the Mississippi much less for primitive people to sail all the way over an ocean and bring their cultural artifacts with them and they certainly couldn't have been the mound builders. Powell, however, had lived for years with the Winnebago Indians and thought it unfair to consider Indians as "savages". - _Source_

The Smithsonian, under the direction of Powell, began to promote the idea that Native Americans, at that time being exterminated in the Indian Wars, were descended from advanced civilizations and were worthy of respect and protection. Cyrus Thomas won the battle of Isolationism vs Diffusionism, though, and the S.I. took an official stance denying and declaring as fraudulent any archaeological evidence supporting Diffusionism. There's evidence of suppression and rumors of actual destruction of artifacts as well. Poor James Smithson is probably twirling dervishly in his mausoleum.

Isolationism proposes that civilizations developed independently from one another and had very little contact, if any, with other civilizations, especially if oceans or lakes divided them. It was held that even contact between the civilizations of the Ohio and Mississippi Valleys were rare, and certainly these civilizations did not have any contact with such advanced cultures as the Mayas, Toltecs, or Aztecs in Mexico and Central America. By Old World standards this is an extreme, and even ridiculous idea, considering that the river system reached to the Gulf of Mexico and these civilizations were as close as the opposite shore of the gulf. It was like saying that cultures in the Black Sea area could not have had contact with the Mediterranean.

When the contents of many ancient mounds and pyramids of the Midwest were examined, it was shown that the history of the Mississippi River Valleys was that of an ancient and sophisticated culture that had been in contact with Europe and other areas. Not only that, the contents of many mounds revealed burials of huge men, sometimes seven or eight feet tall, in full armor with swords and sometimes huge treasures. But that doesn't fit the narrative either and besides, the textbooks have already been written and academicians careers could be jeopardized if some of these archaeological finds were to be made public.

One example is when Spiro Mound in Oklahoma was excavated in the 1930's, a tall man (7 ft.) in full armor was discovered along with a pot of thousands of pearls and other artifacts, the largest such treasure so far documented. The whereabouts of the man in armor is now unknown and it is quite likely that it eventually was taken to the Smithsonian Institution. Who else would you think to contact about a find like that? And how does one lose a 7 ft. skeleton and his horde of valuable pearls?

Spiro Mound artifacts

​
THE most important archaeological institute in the United States, the Smithsonian Institute, an independent federal agency, has been actively suppressing some of the most interesting and important archaeological discoveries made in the Americas. The Vatican, too, has been long accused of keeping artifacts and ancient books in their vast cellars, without allowing the outside world access to them. These secret treasures, often of a controversial, historical, or religious nature, are allegedly suppressed by the Catholic Church because they might damage the church's credibility, or perhaps cast their official texts in doubt. Sadly, there is overwhelming evidence that something very similar is happening with the Smithsonian Institution.

Another highly publicized and still controversial find are the Acambaro, Mexico artifacts. In 1994 a German immigrant merchant, Jalsrud, stumbled across some unusual artifacts of ceramic, stone, jade, obsidian knives and strange figurines that are being argued over to this day. He took a few home but decided to hire some locals to keep digging to see if there were any more. Over 33,500 objects were unearthed.





The Mexican government got involved, several authentic archaeologists, and paleontologists also investigated the find. Lab testing (radio carbon and thermoluminescent dating) was done by reputable labs AND universities. The objects were dated from 6,500 years ago, around 4,500 BC. The controversy started when it was discovered that several of the statues were of what could only be described as dinosaurs, some in association with humans. When this tidbit became common knowledge the labs and universities changed their minds and said the artifacts were only 30 years old. Then the archaeologists and paleontologists who had been AT the dig, witnessing the unearthing of the statues also changed their minds and said it was all a hoax and that the locals were making them to sell to the German merchant.





In addition to the politically incorrect depiction of dinosaurs and humans interacting, there were representations of various ethnic groups not expected to be found in Mexico: Negroes, Orientals, bearded Caucasians, Egyptians, Sumerians, and even Bigfoot! There were aquatic monster like creatures, weird human-animal mixtures, and a host of other inexplicable creations. Teeth from an extinct Ice Age horse, the skeleton of a mammoth, and a number of human skulls were found at the same site as the ceramic artifacts. Jalsrud crammed this collection into twelve rooms of his expanded house.

In 1952, American archaeologist Charles C. DiPeso claimed to have minutely examined the then 32,000 pieces within not more than four hours spent at the home of Julsrud. Archaeological investigator John H. Tierney, who has lectured on the case for decades, points out that to have done that DiPeso would have had to have inspected 133 pieces per minute steadily for four hours, whereas in actuality, it would have required weeks merely to have separated the massive jumble of exhibits and arranged them properly for a valid evaluation. Carlos Perea, the Director of Archaeology for the Acambaro zone, for the National Museum of Anthropology in Mexico City was present when official excavations were conducted by the National Museum and the American Museum of Natural History and declared them authentic. Remember that the Museum of Natural History (where most of these kinds of finds would go) is a division of the Smithsonian Institute.

Tierney, who collaborated later with Professor Hapgood, the late William N. Russell, and others in the investigation, charges that the Smithsonian Institution and other archaeological authorities conducted a campaign of disinformation against the discoveries. The Smithsonian had, early in the controversy, dismissed the entire Acambaro collection as an elaborate hoax. Also, utilizing the FOIA, Tierney discovered that practically the entirety of the Smithsonian's Julsrud case files are missing.

Adding to this controversy is the fact that the Instituto Nacional de Antropologia e Historia, through the late Director of PreHispanic Monuments, Dr. Eduardo Noguera, head of an official investigating team at the site, issued a report admitting "the apparent scientific legality with which these objects were found." Despite evidence of their own eyes, however, officials declared that because of the objects 'fantastic' nature, they had to have been a hoax played on Julsrud! A disappointed but ever-hopeful Julsrud died. His house was sold and the collection put in storage. The collection is not currently open to the public.

*As a side note to this story:* _2 local thieves were caught at the Texas border attempting to sell these artifacts on the black market. They were arrested AND CONVICTED of stealing national treasures and sent to prison. The courts were presented with the evidence, declared the artifacts genuine enough to imprison the 2 guys trying to sell them. If the artifacts had been deemed fakes/hoax items then they would have been guilty of nothing more than trying to peddle novelties._

*Wiki tows the party line *
_*Some pics of the artifacts *_
_More info on this story_
_Cover-ups And Suppression Of Archaeological Evidence_
Final example to prevent this from becoming a novella.
In 1892 in Alabama wooden coffins were discovered and sent to the S.I and promptly "lost". The Gungywamp Society in Connecticut (researches New England megalithic sites) put out an article in their 1992 STONEWATCH NEWSLETTER regarding the find. In the article, researcher Frederick J. Pohl in 1950 had written to the late Dr. T.C. Lethbridge, a British archaeologist.         

The letter from Pohl stated, "A professor of geology sent me a reprint (of the) Smithsonian Institution, THE CRUMF BURIAL CAVE by Frank Burns, US Geological Survey, from the report of the US National Museum for 1892, pp 451-454, 1984. In the Crumf Cave, southern branch of the Warrior River, in Murphy's Valley, Blount County, Alabama, accessible from Mobile Bay by river, were coffins of walnut wood hollowed out by fire, aided by stone or copper chisels.
_The Crump Burial Cave_




​These coffins were taken to the Smithsonian. They were about 7.5 feet long, 14" to 18" wide, 6" to 7" deep. Lids open. "I wrote recently to the Smithsonian, and received a reply March 11th from F.M. Setzler, Head Curator of Department of Anthropology (He said) 'We have not been able to find the specimens in our collections, though records show that they were received."

David Barron, President of the Gungywamp Society was eventually told by the Smithsonian in 1992 that the coffins were actually wooden troughs and that they could not be viewed anyway because they were housed in an asbestos-contaminated warehouse. This warehouse was to be closed for the next ten years and no one was allowed in except the Smithsonian personnel! How very ingenious of the Native Americans to put lids on the animal feed troughs. I'm sure the cows had no trouble lifting the lids when they got hungry. And why are we just now finding out that the Indians were also cattlemen and ranchers in need of feed troughs for their cattle. I don't know why they bothered to hunt at all. I also was not aware that Indians used coffins to bury their dead. source

Cover-ups And Suppression Of Archaeological Evidence




In a 1994 article in the Wall Street Journal titled _Snoopy at the Smithsonian, _the author bemoaned what he called the "political makeover of the Smithsonian." The piece was prompted by Secretary I. Michael Heyman's recent approval of the National Air and Space Museum's proposed Enola Gay exhibit, which the author viewed as the latest example of how the Smithsonian seemed to be transforming its museums over recent years into "vehicles for political re-education." He wrote that this trend began during the tenure of Secretary Robert McCormick Adams, who started in 1984 and hired individuals from the "Academic Left." According to the author, the Board of Regents and the U.S. Congress had not been paying attention to what he saw as the intentional creation of exhibits that presented ideological views, rather than facts, to the general public. Under pressure, the Smithsonian made some revisions to the exhibit to moderate criticism of the effects of science on society. None of the parties, however, were ultimately happy with the outcome.

In summary, The American taxpayer is forking over nearly 100 million dollars a year to be lied to and deceived. They have some wonderfully artistic exhibits but pretty lies are still lies. I reluctantly share a bit of gossip from a former employee of the S.I. who tried to champion the idea of Diffusionism based on all the evidence that flowed to the Institute and was fired for his troubles. His claim is that the S.I. has loaded up a barge full of troublesome artifacts and dropped them in the Atlantic Ocean. This alarming tidbit may be sour grapes from a disgruntled and dismissed employee but, considering the *documented* evidence of artifacts they've lost (some to which they'll even admit losing), one has to consider the possibility that his accusation has merit.

What evidence have they received from their many donations that would warrant a cover-up of such history-altering proportions? I deliberately left out all the overwhelming evidence of the giant skeletons sent to the S.I. that no longer exist or are no longer available for viewing (unless you own a submarine) as it would require its own article.

National Institute of Science as well as the National Academy of Science were 1863 extensions by Congress of the Smithsonian Institution for the stated purpose to "investigate, examine, experiment, and report upon any subject of science or art" when called upon by the government." Interesting choice of words for their charter: _when called upon by the government._ Is that to imply that we don't want you poking around just anywhere? The first Secretary of the NIS, Joseph Henry,  soon became its 2nd President but was dismayed by and opposed to such an organization and disavowed the secretive negotiations that characterized its founding. _Why would secret negotiations be needed to start a science museum? In 1863 there were nearly daily findings being reported in newspapers of giant skeletons and technological artifacts._

He spent 8 months in Europe touring their Science academies and museums only to return disgusted by what he saw, stating, "the charlatanism of our country struck me " more than ever before, and [that] he often thought of [his predecessor Alexander]Bache's remark "that we must put down quackery or quackery will put down science."

Henry was supposed to model our proposed National Institute of Science on the existing European ones which he thoroughly balked against stating, "I have never thought that the Conception of an Academy, borrowed from the Academies of Europe, namely, an institution supported by Government from the public Treasury, could be successful. It has always appeared to me to be incompatible with the spirit of our institutions."

Henry, being an honorable man, was opposed to relying on the government, ie-the public largesse, for funding postulating, that the academy could not rely on federal appropriations and that accepting government money to support its work might compromise its scientific objectivity. "Its existence," Henry wrote, "should in no-wise depend on the fitful appropriations of Congress, which would not fail to be defeated by the adverse report to some favored project of an influential member."

He championed for board elections based on a candidates scientific merit and not their social standing. And although he was opposed to the Institute in general, he was called upon to serve and taking his selection seriously, faithfully executed his duties for 10 years assisting the U.S. by providing science when needed such as offering suggestions on how to prevent counterfeiting of monies and improving fog and lighthouses.





Meeting of the National Institute of Science​




_Joseph Henry_​
As the government's first science adviser, he chastised Congress "meddling in scientific matters they didn't understand well before he came to Washington, DC to lead the Smithsonian.  Henry remained skeptical of Washington insiders' ability to address scientific questions. In reference to an 1844 meeting to be held by the National Institute for the Promotion of Science, based in DC, Henry remarked that he did "not like the plan of uniting science and party politics," and called the organization a "host of Pseudo-Savants."

For a man of such integrity as Henry, it must have been disheartening in the extreme to see his final years trying to build something of credit to the U.S. and its scientific community be undermined by partisan politics. He expressed concern that the Smithsonian, once he was no longer in charge, "may fall, as the agricultural department and the Patent office have done under political sway and the director be changed with every change of administration." He also complained that "the discovery of new scientific principles . . . has been almost entirely neglected" in the US and in England. " _Kind of makes you wonder where all those inventions of the industrial revolution came from._

Would that such men as Joseph Henry were still around to advance scientific discovery and keep special interest groups from clouding all issues. For having such noble beginnings as those envisioned by the benefactor James Smithson and the visionary President of the Institute, Joseph Henry, the Smithsonian has fallen very far from its charter: to advance and diffuse knowledge.





> Note: This OP was recovered from the Wayback Archive.





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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Ice NineDate: 2018-11-13 03:06:12Reaction Score: 10


The Smithsonian is like the Vatican Archives, only without the religion. If I ever found anything strange those jokers would be the last to know.


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2018-11-13 05:03:44Reaction Score: 14


Fun stuff they were occupied with during the Civil War:

_National Academy of Science were 1863 extensions by Congress of the Smithsonian Institution for the stated purpose to "investigate, examine, experiment, and report upon any subject of science or art" when called upon by the government.  _
_In 1863 there were nearly daily findings being reported in newspapers of giant skeletons and technological artifacts. _
Sorry, but I see the land which used to belong to the Giants. Adds an additional spin on the nature of the Civil War, doesn't it?

In my opinion, this is one of the most important threads on this forum. Smithsonian has been on the radar for a very long time already. To be honest, I did not know much about its structure till I read the OP. Very interesting it is.


It's kind of weird to realize that there are specifically tasked individuals walking among us. Pretty sure Smithsonian employs tons of clueless people, but there gotta be a few who get the "job" done.

The phenomena of artifact disappearance _(giants, and what not..._) appears to exist. I find it hard to believe that there is no merit to all the so-called "rumors". Smithsonian has to have a specific procedure setup, to make sure that nothing slips by. Which means that some sort of archaeological reporting system has to be discretely implemented.

For me, the most memorable Smithsonian involvement was the Grand Canyon Ancient Egyptian artifact discovery of 1909. Of course they denied everything.

*Note:* Below Grand Canyon synopsis is being presented as an example of Smithsonian's alleged involvement, and subsequent cover up of the artifacts. If you want to discuss Ancient Egyptian Grand Canyon involvement in depth, please start a separate dedicated thread.

_On April 5, 1909, a front page story in the Arizona Gazette reported on an archaeological expedition in the heart of the Grand Canyon funded by the Smithsonian Institute, which had resulted in the discovery of __Egyptian artifacts__. April 5 is close to April 1 – but then not quite… so perhaps the story could be true?  _

_read_

Did the Smithsonian cover up an Ancient Egyptian Colony in the Grand Canyon? | Ancient Code
Did the Ancient Egyptians Inhabit the Grand Canyon?
An Odd Place to Find Egyptians
Ancient Egyptians in the Grand Canyon
Canyonitis: Seeing evidence of ancient Egypt in the Grand Canyon

Thank you very much for this well researched thread _@whitewave_.


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## BStankman (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: BStankmanDate: 2018-11-13 10:39:02Reaction Score: 8


Even the Smithsonian Castle is hidden history.



 



Octagon everywhere.
Lets just call this a Museum, because we already have a post office in DC.





Tartarian City of Norumbega was conquered to become Washington, DC


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## Whitewave (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: whitewaveDate: 2018-11-13 15:48:53Reaction Score: 12


The Smithsonian is such a large topic covering so many facets that I had to pare it down considerably for posting as a topic of discussion. The Grand Canyon caves have since their discovery been purchased by the government and cordoned off. No visitors/tourists/academicians are allowed and even park personnel are prohibited from the area. The government is serious about it too as it's protected by armed military personnel. Why can't we see what's going on in our own country without the threat of being shot?


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: SearchingDate: 2018-11-13 16:15:15Reaction Score: 9




whitewave said:


> Why can't we see what's going on in our own country without the threat of being shot?


Well, 'cause you know, freedumb.


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## asatiger1966 (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: asatiger1966Date: 2018-11-20 08:13:40Reaction Score: 10




whitewave said:


> The Smithsonian is such a large topic covering so many facets that I had to pare it down considerably for posting as a topic of discussion. The Grand Canyon caves have since their discovery been purchased by the government and cordoned off. No visitors/tourists/academicians are allowed and even park personnel are prohibited from the area. The government is serious about it too as it's protected by armed military personnel. Why can't we see what's going on in our own country without the threat of being shot?


That is not a threat.
Without getting into details tonight, some thought is required, my first combat unit had a Smithsonian Officer in our support platoon.
I never even thought about it. I met him through my platoon mentor. I had expressed an idea that maybe they would train on a 20mm anti aircraft  weapon. Glass took me over to this Captain and ask if his family "still owned the ship"

I had no clue where this was going but the Captain said that his family owned a sailing ship that operated along the east coast of South America. Under contract with The Smithsonian Institute for marine studies. The ship was over 250 feet long, three mast, steel hull and diesel engines. Oh and least we forget, two 20mm AAA, one forward and one aft.

The Captain offered me a summer on board and yes I could fire the guns. A few months later they found what they were looking for and said goodby to my summer on a beautiful ship.

I do not remember the ship name but I went on line to see and found a similar ship, it seems smaller that my memory.


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2018-11-20 08:35:41Reaction Score: 5


_@asatiger1966_, very interesting bit of info. Thank you.

Smithsonian appears to be a history related task force, designed to only intervene when necessary.

Interesting things they were involved with. Doubt that type of their activities changed much,

The Secret Treasure Vault that Might Have Been


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## Whitewave (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: whitewaveDate: 2018-11-20 20:09:45Reaction Score: 3




asatiger1966 said:


> That is not a threat. Without getting into details tonight, some thought is required, my first combat unit had a Smithsonian Officer in our support platoon. I had no clue where this was going but the Captain said that his family owned a sailing ship that operated along the east coast of South America. Under contract with The Smithsonian Institute for marine studies. The Captain offered me a summer on board. A few months later they found what they were looking for and said goodby to my summer on a beautiful ship.


Curious as to why a combat unit would require a Smithsonian Officer in a support platoon. And before you mentioned it, I didn't know there was such a thing as Smithsonian officers (for combat units). I envisioned them all as stuffy, bespeckled, dusty academicians. Why were you offered a summer onboard the ship? In what capacity, if I may ask? What was the ship looking for that required a gunboat? Was it a Smithsonian "recovery" mission or a combat mission with a professorial type Smithsonian guy on as a courtesy? Interesting story but needs way more details. If encroaching into forbidden areas is not a threat, is it a promise? Wonder if that's where all those missing hikers are disappearing? Thanks for sharing your experience with us.


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## asatiger1966 (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: asatiger1966Date: 2018-11-21 08:14:06Reaction Score: 7




whitewave said:


> Curious as to why a combat unit would require a Smithsonian Officer in a support platoon. And before you mentioned it, I didn't know there was such a thing as Smithsonian officers (for combat units). I envisioned them all as stuffy, bespeckled, dusty academicians. Why were you offered a summer onboard the ship? In what capacity, if I may ask? What was the ship looking for that required a gunboat? Was it a Smithsonian "recovery" mission or a combat mission with a professorial type Smithsonian guy on as a courtesy? Interesting story but needs way more details. If encroaching into forbidden areas is not a threat, is it a promise? Wonder if that's where all those missing hikers are disappearing? Thanks for sharing your experience with us.


I will attempt to clarify some of your questions. explaining the "unit" might confuse anyone not somewhat exposed to Army combat forces.
My first posting after my training was to the 101st Airborne Division, 1/327 Airborne Battalion, HQ & HQ Company, Heavy Weapons Platoon, attached to HQ&HQ  Company, LRRP Platoon as a RTO/FO short version. I carried a PRC-25 with range extensions for a 1st Lieutenant that was a forward observer. Both the Lieutenant and I  were from the Heavy Weapons Platoon.

First I was nothing special, just happen to draw this unit because of my scouting skill set learnt while growing up in the Ozarks. My whole family was Military, police, CIA. Back in the 60's boys still believed in adventure, we all wanted to become Soldiers of Fortune. Sounds corny now. College was the family plan to become an officer but I wanted up front and most of the family officers jobs were boring. Qualified for OCS at the induction Center instead  enlisting on condition of getting the paratroops and recon. The dog chases a car and catches it What now?

The platoon were going to try and talk about is the most heavily classified platoon in Army history. For real. The platoon was created in December of 1965 in Phag Rang Vietnam. I arrived in January 1966. The Commanding Officer was Major David Hackworth. The platoon consisted of a strange cadre, Navy UDT, French Foreign Legion, British SAS, Jordanian ,Portuguese commandos. Two men that had fought at Bastone. there were numerous MIT grads with masters degrees in math. They were fascinating they would lay awake, at night, in the jungle and play chess on an imaginary board. This was just your run of the mill recon platoon LoL .

The "Captain" that said his family owned the ship, was Navel Intelligence. A Captain in the Army is an 0-3 in rank as shown by image below. That Naval rank with the same insignia is a  Lieutenant. To not confuse everybody he was called a Captain. Again the phrase Smithsonian Captain was sort of his nickname because of the ship. I should have said Smithsonian connected officer.

My next posting was personal guard for the 101st, 1st Brigade Commander RVN, One Star General.

The platoon still exists but the original intent was completed in less than a year.   The platoon in late 1967 was discredited with accusations of every war crime one can imagine. Who would be interested in a story from those men anyway.

I am sure that you have questions, so do I.

If your told by a government representative *involved with the military* that _"they will kill you if"_, stop and do not cross go.


whitewave, you ask good questions, you do realize how far back 1966-1970 is right. I remembered a few details that might fill in a few more blanks. The 101st Headquarters was located on the coast at Tuy Hoa. I was there once while serving with recon platoon. We worked in the mountains around Dac To, a provincial capital.

The mountains just north of Dac To, are some of the highest in the country. See map, I grew up spelunking in the Ozarks. There are caves everywhere and you see some really neat stuff down there, a boy thing. Are you aware that the largest cave in the world was located in Vietnam in 1991? Just about twenty miles north of the old DMZ. Those are low mountains compared to where we were.

The support "Heavy Weapons" platoon had two Chinese mercenaries, one Russian special forces and numerous " Montagnards"  mountain tribesmen as scouts. The tribesmen had lived in the mountains for thousands of years and knew where all the neat stuff was. They were very protective of their Gods sacred dwelling places, usually on a mountain top. They had trouble grasping why we did not want to walk on the old khmer roads, they thought the gods walked them at night. The roads were wide 20-50 at some places and curved around the mountains, all the way to a point where you were looking at a blanket of fog or clouds. The mountains were all you could see and they looked like islands in the ocean.

To my experience there is no human agency involved with the park disappearances.  Happy Thanks Giving.


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## Whitewave (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: whitewaveDate: 2018-11-22 16:37:55Reaction Score: 9


Thanks asatiger. Don't want to get anyone in trouble for revealing secrets that will get them shot if told. Thanks for telling us what you can. I talked with a VietNam vet when I worked at the VA. He was part of the Tet Offensive and had PTSD from all the horrors he saw and secrets he had to keep. It was a slow night in the ER so we stayed outside and smoked and talked. After listening to some of his stories (tall tales they were) I thought "this guy is seriously delusional and has a persecution complex". When he was finally cleared medically to go up to the psych ward I escorted him there but forgot to get his chart. When I went back down to get the chart there was a HUGE file on this guy verifying everything he'd told me. His chart had a stamp across the front that instructed us to notify the DOD if he were ever admitted.

I think we're only as sick as the secrets we keep and exposing the secrecy of places like the Smithsonian (and especially their sister branch, The Natural History Museum where many of our artifacts drop into a black hole) is the only way to cure the madness/dystopian thinking that has permeated our culture. Thanks for your service and Happy Thanksgiving.


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2018-11-25 02:13:28Reaction Score: 13


They have a term for it  *Smithoniangate*

_There was a video here, but it was deleted._
And I think _@whitewave_ would enjoy this YT Oklahoma comment, _"My Grandfather worked on creating the Grand River Dam, at Disney, Oklahoma.  When I was a child in the 50's, he used to talk about the Giant Graveyard they found as they were excavating the earth around the Dam.  He said Scientists from the Smithsonian came, fenced off the area, put up big tents,  the crowds couldn't see what they were doing.   Grandfather said everyone in the area knew about the giant skeletons.   Back then, Oklahoma hadn't been a State for very long and many of the people working on the Damn were Cherokee people because the area had been Cherokee Nation Reservation until oil was found.   So, anyway... when the scientists were finished, they put everything in big crates and shipped them away.  There isn't any record of these Giants or the Smithsonian Scientists in Disney, Oklahoma.  anywhere.  With the advent of the internet, we're all able to find out now that this sort of thing happened all over the USA.. and World.  Yet, still.... the Smithsonian Institute remains quiet.   We all pay taxes, we pay salaries, yet... so much is kept secret from us all.  This is wrong in every way.  We are not here to serve them, they are here to serve us!!!"_


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## Whitewave (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: whitewaveDate: 2018-11-25 03:18:20Reaction Score: 6


One of the books I read recently about Giants in America (think that was actually the title) suggested that Oklahoma may have been a capital city for ancient civilizations in the USA area. He didn't give enough evidence to explain how he came to that conclusion but we have had some interesting finds here. Spiro Mounds (Spiro, Ok.), Viking runes (Heavener, Ok.), Cherokee reservation (Disney, Ok.), lots of really huge dinosaur remains (all over Ok.), possible portal (Beaver, Ok.).


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## asatiger1966 (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: asatiger1966Date: 2018-11-25 04:24:46Reaction Score: 13


Love you guys and girls, the comments made triggers  my memories. While on R&R Christmas 1966 at Manila ,Philippines.
We were invited by the Philippines Embassy, we were staying at the Bayview Hotel across the street from our Embassy, to the American WW11 Cemetery, to honor our fellow paratroops sacrifice. Hang on we will get there. During WW11 a Filipino infantry regiment was surrounded on a flat plain and held little hope of not being annihilated by the Japaneses. An American paratroop unit had volunteered to reinforce the Filipinos, after jumping in they lost almost 100 % of their men. All survivors were captured.
We could not pay for a taxi, tips at dinner you name it the Filipinos were so appreciative they took us the next day to a movie set where a WW11  movie was being filmed.
While visiting the cemetery, the director said that this cemetery was the largest American Military cemetery anywhere. We asked if that included the USA mainland/ He said yes except for the one in Oklahoma. Our tour leader a Major Overbeck said that he was not familiar with that one. The director said that 70,000 Bronze Age soldiers from two armies were interred there. He named the location, all I remembered was it was near a river and one army had defended and the other overran there fortification. The Major asked who the combatants were and was told that no one knew. The one side had bronze weapons and one army had seashell necklaces and some sort of breastplates.. The officers were buried with some ceremony and the soldiers were in large graves both sides. Who won he did not know, who were they he did not know. In three days we were in Cambodia the conversation was forgotten.

I am uncomfortable with some issues, just habit. I have commented before that I have terminal cancer, 2-5 years depending on the numerous cocktails they are giving me. So reminiscing and if no one gets hurt might comment on one or two other items LOL.

Thanks for the memories


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2018-11-25 04:29:02Reaction Score: 3




asatiger1966 said:


> While visiting the cemetery, the director said that this cemetery was the largest American Military cemetery anywhere. The director said that 70,000 Bronze Age soldiers from two armies were interred there.


Now, that is just bananas-nutts. We need to dig up some info on this.


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## asatiger1966 (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: asatiger1966Date: 2018-11-25 07:14:27Reaction Score: 6




whitewave said:


> Thanks asatiger. Don't want to get anyone in trouble for revealing secrets that will get them shot if told. Thanks for telling us what you can. I talked with a VietNam vet when I worked at the VA. He was part of the Tet Offensive and had PTSD from all the horrors he saw and secrets he had to keep. It was a slow night in the ER so we stayed outside and smoked and talked. After listening to some of his stories (tall tales they were) I thought "this guy is seriously delusional and has a persecution complex". When he was finally cleared medically to go up to the psych ward I escorted him there but forgot to get his chart. When I went back down to get the chart there was a HUGE file on this guy verifying everything he'd told me. His chart had a stamp across the front that instructed us to notify the DOD if he were ever admitted.
> 
> I think we're only as sick as the secrets we keep and exposing the secrecy of places like the Smithsonian (and especially their sister branch, The Natural History Museum where many of our artifacts drop into a black hole) is the only way to cure the madness/dystopian thinking that has permeated our culture. Thanks for your service and Happy Thanksgiving.



Thanks for your service at the VA. There are so many ways to change history and maybe a study of our military would come in handy. We were debriefed at Fort Lenardrwood, Mo. That is another story. I go home, if you ever can, and in a few weeks drive over to the local VA in Dallas. All good till give my ID and ask about a plane ride on a MAC going to Europe. I got a runaround so I asked to see the chief administrator. No is a word I am not familiar with.

This dxxx said that he needed to have my 201 file looked by his man? OK  , I end up in Dr. xx ,retired from Loma Linda University that could have been Sigmund Freud* *brother. A nut doctor, so I asked why he needed to look me over just to leave the country? He had my 201 file on his desk with his hand on it. He ask a few questions about my service, which I answered. Then I asked to look at my on damm file. He pushed the three inch file away and said you can not see this file, ever. *Your file is marked Blue PI. *no amount of lawyers or money will get you this file. Now what is blue PI?


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Ice NineDate: 2018-11-25 15:30:15Reaction Score: 8


_@asatiger1966_, I'm glad you are here sharing with us, thank you for everything and I'm very sorry to hear you have cancer.

Some more about the Grand Canyon and the Goobermint.

In 1956 there was a major plane crash.
There was a thunderstorm over the Grand Canyon the morning that two airplanes vanished there the summer of 1956.
Investigators later determined that the TWA and United Airlines flights had collided in mid-air, some 21,000 feet above the canyon, killing all 128 people aboard both aircraft.
At the time, it was the deadliest accident in commercial aviation history, and it prompted a huge push for aviation safety that culminated in the creation of the Federal Aviation Administration. The crash response eventually led to the development of nationwide radar, collision avoidance systems, flight-data recorders, and sophisticated navigation tools.
Grand Canyon plane crash

But that's not the big story, there area of the crash sites has been put off limits forever. Because something was seen down there. I don't think there is any disputing the fact.

What this guy spotted is around 4:40
Lost flights


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## Whitewave (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: whitewaveDate: 2018-11-25 18:50:02Reaction Score: 6




asatiger1966 said:


> While visiting the cemetery, the director said that this cemetery was the largest American Military cemetery anywhere. We asked if that included the USA mainland/ He said yes except for the one in Oklahoma. Our tour leader a Major Overbeck said that he was not familiar with that one. The director said that 70,000 Bronze Age soldiers from two armies were interred there.


Well, that's news to me! Never heard of that one. Thanks for eating up the rest of my day searching for info on that. LOL. Never heard of blue PI either, not even on the guy I mentioned in my story. Wonder if it has anything to do with medical experimentation? They give you guys a LOT of injections and, really, you don't KNOW what's in those cocktails. My husband was disabled from the 40 year old, improperly-stored-in-a-Michigan-warehouse anthrax shots they gave him during Desert Storm. I begged him not to take the shots but they were dishonorably discharging vets for refusing the shots and he only had 3 years til retirement so he risked it.


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## BStankman (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: BStankmanDate: 2018-11-25 19:14:46Reaction Score: 3




whitewave said:


> They give you guys a LOT of injections and, really, you don't KNOW what's in those cocktails. My husband was disabled from the 40 year old, improperly-stored-in-a-Michigan-warehouse anthrax shots they gave him during Desert Storm. I begged him not to take the shots but they were dishonorably discharging vets for refusing the shots and he only had 3 years til retirement so he risked it.


Good advice.  Listen to all the nurses that tell you not to get vaccinated.  And not the doctor that gets the bonus.



Ice Nine said:


> _@asatiger1966_, I'm glad you are here sharing with us, thank you for everything and I'm very sorry to hear you have cancer.
> But that's not the big story, there area of the crash sites has been put off limits forever. Because something was seen down there. I don't think there is any disputing the fact.
> 
> What this guy spotted is around 4:40
> Lost flights


Thanks for the link.  Now I have to look for bullet holes in the wreckage and at all the background cliffs.
looks like a giant Eagle relief to me.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Ice NineDate: 2018-11-25 19:36:35Reaction Score: 7




BStankman said:


> Good advice.  Listen to all the nurses that tell you not to get vaccinated.  And not the doctor that gets the bonus.
> Thanks for the link.  Now I have to look for bullet holes in the wreckage and at all the background cliffs.
> looks like a giant Eagle relief to me.
> View attachment 12935


I don't get vaccinations, none since the childhood ones. So at least 55 years or so. I don't recall ever getting any in my teens.  Anyway, I rarely, if ever get sick. 

I never gave a thought that the planes colliding was anything other than a tragic accident. Even though the Smithsonian has been covering up things, I think that the Giant Eagle or whateverthehell it is carved on the cliff face might have been news to everybody.

Yes, something else to put on my list, I'll be searching the rock faces of the Grand Canyon.  That's one of my favorite things to check out anyway, the background of pictures.  Sometimes there are more and/or better anomalies in the background.  Case in point the above photo. I wish I had a way to make it look better enlarged, but no such luck.


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## Whitewave (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: whitewaveDate: 2018-11-26 05:34:44Reaction Score: 10


Smithsonian is exempt from returning Native remains/artifacts. The Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act (NAGPRA). The army collected about 4,000 skulls from battlefields and graves. Those remains were housed in the U.S. Army Medical Museum, and eventually became part of the Smithsonian’s collection totaling about 18,000 individuals. (The *Smithsonian is specifically exempt from NAGPRA*, but must repatriate parts of its collection under a similar law, the National Museum of the American Indian Act.) While some ancestors of the Pueblo of Jemez have been returned to their intended resting places, the *bones of* *nearly 200,000 other American Indians still sit in drawers* and wooden boxes of American museums across the country.

Why should the Smithsonian be exempt from the law that everyone else has to follow?


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## asatiger1966 (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: asatiger1966Date: 2018-11-30 20:34:18Reaction Score: 13




KorbenDallas said:


> Now, that is just bananas-nutts. We need to dig up some info on this.


Korben, your making me paranoid . Searched for any information on the alleged cemetery in Oklahoma. It seems that a Dr. Edwin Walters was an eminent  archeologist and in 1898 he made the first discovery of said battlefield. They did have copper weapons and breastplates. A sometime later sounding proved the claim of 70,000 dead with one or two 20x30 tombs. The battlefield covers about 30 acres with between 2,500-3,000 dead per acre.

Now the odd part an article  was supposedly printed at the time , 1898 , in Fort Smith, Arkansas. I can find no record of said artical. Checked with Oklahoma History Center archives, no record. Then discovered that the Oklahoma Historical Society  is, " On the professional level, the  only institution in the world (* In the World *)to earn formal affiliation status with both the Smithsonian Institution and the National Archives and accreditation by the American Alliance of Museums."

Whatever is in Oklahoma is important to someone.
What I found in Ancient  Americans Magazine, is a summary of what has happened, cannot be copied or the files transferred, is that odd?

This Smithsonian Bunch needs a close look.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Ice NineDate: 2018-11-30 20:47:34Reaction Score: 7


Holy crappola _@asatiger1966_, first off,kudos for finding that information I wasted a ton of time trying to do the same the other day and got nowhere.

but doesn't this just say it all ...
"Then discovered that the Oklahoma Historical Society is, " On the professional level, the only institution in the world (* In the World *)to earn formal affiliation status with both the Smithsonian Institution and the National Archives and accreditation by the American Alliance of Museums." " which translates to: We can do anything, say anything, steal, er keep anything safe that we want to and nobody can ever see it again.

Now I believe the story for sure.

When the next apocalypse hits, if I'm still around, I hope I can make it back east to look through the rubble.


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2018-11-30 21:02:29Reaction Score: 7


Here is a small _pub from 1897_ on this, and _a 1915 one_ about arrows in the skulls.


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## Whitewave (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: whitewaveDate: 2018-11-30 21:40:10Reaction Score: 8


Great finds! You guys have much better search skills than me. I searched for hours for information on that grave and never did find anything. Interesting, KD, that 1915 article suggests that, contrary to the Smithsonian' isolationist view, Central America natives DID come to what is now the U.S.-all the way to Nebraska and Ohio-and apparently kicked some serious hiney. 
The last sentence of that blurb mentions that the grave remains prove that not everyone in North America was "native" but were different nationalities and among the slain were giants AND dwarves.
The 1897 article mentions that the railcar loads of bones were sent to a museum in Holland. Why in the world why would they go to Holland unless the S.I. was too new to consider for such a find. Considering that the author and the discoverer both considered it the most important archaeological find in history, I'd like to know more about it and whatever became of it, if any more research or written papers are available, etc.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Ice NineDate: 2018-11-30 22:16:38Reaction Score: 3


Yes the "giants and dwarfs" is of particular interest and also why send bones to Holland, well  perhaps there were artifacts in the graves that pointed to the dead being from the Netherlands.  Their weapons or attire. Wonder if they had red or blonde hair.


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2018-11-30 22:47:31Reaction Score: 6


Well, CSA faught the “Dutch” during the Civil War. May be this is the reason for bones going to Holland.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Ice NineDate: 2018-11-30 23:31:16Reaction Score: 7




KorbenDallas said:


> Well, CSA faught the “Dutch” during the Civil War. May be this is the reason for bones going to Holland.


Holy Cow dudeski, duh-o.  I was thinking too far back, you most def might be on to something for sure. Oh except for some giants and dwarfs being found, made me think of older days, that's all I had to add, except that it might not be significant one way or the other. Still I don't think of, in relatively recent times, dwarfs were being sent to fight. Well there's the LOTR.


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## Whitewave (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: whitewaveDate: 2018-12-01 00:19:46Reaction Score: 8


Asatiger mentioned that there were 70,000 skeletons but the article mentions over 100,000 skeletons. Seems unlikely (to me) that the Dutch would have sent 100,000 troops to a new and foreign country to fight in an internal struggle. Also, what a strange army it must have been to have the Yankees, Zuarves, Russians, and medieval looking "Dutch" guys fighting the CSA (of whoever they were comprised).
Could be the Dutch sent some guys over (or they were already here) as it seems the Dutch East Indies company disappeared like a fart in the wind shortly after America became the United States. Company name change?


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## asatiger1966 (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: asatiger1966Date: 2018-12-01 08:58:57Reaction Score: 9


Thank everyone of you for taking the old Filipino seriously. We were taught " That the Family that Prays together stays together"
I am proud to see this bunch of outlaws coming together. That was a great team effort  
now lets find who this Smithsonian thinks they are. They are starting to annoy me.


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## BStankman (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: BStankmanDate: 2018-12-01 09:45:21Reaction Score: 10


Reported in San Francisco

San Francisco Call, Volume 82, Number 182, 29 November 1897 — RELICS OF  AN ANCIENT  SLAUGHTER [ARTICLE]

RELICS OF  AN ANCIENT  SLAUGHTER — San Francisco Call 29 November 1897 — California Digital Newspaper Collection


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## asatiger1966 (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: asatiger1966Date: 2018-12-01 10:32:42Reaction Score: 3




BStankman said:


> Reported in San Francisco
> 
> San Francisco Call, Volume 82, Number 182, 29 November 1897 — RELICS OF  AN ANCIENT  SLAUGHTER [ARTICLE]
> 
> ...


would 20,000 years ago mess up the accepted time line?


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Ice NineDate: 2018-12-01 16:01:48Reaction Score: 6




BStankman said:


> Reported in San Francisco
> 
> San Francisco Call, Volume 82, Number 182, 29 November 1897 — RELICS OF  AN ANCIENT  SLAUGHTER [ARTICLE]
> 
> ...


Must be the same battle, it says located in Choctaw country, and that was in the Oklahoma Territory.



asatiger1966 said:


> would 20,000 years ago mess up the accepted time line?


It sure as hell does, no wonder it got swept under the rug.

I'm to the point now I have so many different timelines running in my head, instead of getting a clearer picture, it's  just getting more muddled. ARGH


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: WhaduzitakeDate: 2018-12-02 03:18:07Reaction Score: 9




KorbenDallas said:


> Here is a small _pub from 1897_ on this, and _a 1915 one_ about arrows in the skulls.


I'm reading the book from 1915 online right now.  It's interesting how in the early 1900's it was assumed the native Americans came from China, but you never hear about that now.  This answers my question as to why the Europeans never had any tradition of people leaving and conquering new lands or being seen again (except for the Vikings).  The Chinese had these legends.  As to the Smithsonian cover up; I believe it is totally real.  "Science" has become a religion at this point, and to deviate from the popularly held beliefs is akin to heresy.  What was old is new again.....sigh****

Also from this book, pg. 19, it specifically mentions the Tartars, this is all new to me, but wow....

These Tartars at the point of the javelin and hatchet and their weapons, swept everything before them like an avalanche of water. These Tartar hosts marched to the very walls of Rome, under Alaric, and spread over the islands of Polynesia to the Pacific slopes of both North and South America. ****** The Tartars, like the pure Mongols of Mexico and the Mississippi Valley, and, we may add, the Great Ohio Valley and tributaries, rose to a state of civilization bordering on that attained by their predecessors that we designate the Mound Builders. Here for centuries the fierce Tartar race continued in comparative peace until the all-ruling ambition of Empire took in the whole country from the Pacific to the Atlantic, and even peopled the whole country with a race that was destined to conquer all the people of the Orient.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Ice NineDate: 2018-12-02 15:00:53Reaction Score: 0


That is the best evidence I have ever read on the stolen history of the Tartars. Especially coupled with all the unknown dead hidden/swept away.


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2018-12-02 15:19:23Reaction Score: 9


I’m not buying this 20,000 year old thing. Not questioning any finds, but dating is ridiculous in my opinion. Why not 30, or 120 thousands?

Based on what I’ve seen up to this point, as far as geo transformations go, 20k year old stuff would need a miracle to survive in one place, and on a surface. I just think that about everything we deal with is 1k-1.5k tops.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Ice NineDate: 2018-12-02 19:21:06Reaction Score: 3




KorbenDallas said:


> I’m not buying this 20,000 year old thing. Not questioning any finds, but dating is ridiculous in my opinion. Why not 30, or 120 thousands?
> 
> Based on what I’ve seen up to this point, as far as geo transformations go, 20k year old stuff would need a miracle to survive in one place, and on a surface. I just about everything we deal with is 1k-1.5k tops.


I read the old article again so I was sure what it said, but it's  just Pro. Edwin Walter's own theory that it was 20,000 years ago.  But the findings do corroborate the other story from _@asatiger1966_, lots of dead and buried soldiers in the Oklahoma area at some point in time.


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2018-12-04 04:47:57Reaction Score: 2


Here is a little video I find to be pretty interesting. At the end the guy connects the dots, in a way, and Smithsonian pops up on the radar once again.


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## asatiger1966 (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: asatiger1966Date: 2018-12-04 08:20:32Reaction Score: 11




KorbenDallas said:


> Here is a little video I find to be pretty interesting. At the end the guy connects the dots, in a way, and Smithsonian pops up on the radar once again.


The gate keepers just love caves. In Illinois about 1988 a former 101st paratrooper said that he had *accidentally *found a cave located along a river bank. From the information coming out apparently there was  many mummies in niches along the walls. The cave branched off in multiple directions. There were alcoves with gold,silver and Gem stones in pots. A ton of carved stones written in five languages from the Mediterranean  Sea countries. The combined find seemed  to indicate maybe an African or Egyptian  king , or even Alexander The Great's  resting place. A large amount of gold artifacts,

Sometimes my rhetoric is difficult to get your head around. We never lie, never try to stand out any way whatsoever. We blend in and listen.
Take my comments together and look for a thread.
The man below crawling out of a cave has on his shoulder a 101st Abn patch. Remember the officer over me in the LRRP platoon in the mountains of Vietnam also wore that same uniform but I mentioned ,he really was a British Commando with the SAS. if you will notice the older picture of the same man he now has his British SAS uniform on.

The professional Archeologist ,over 50 organizations and museums , said everything was fake. Called the whole affair a hoax calling Mr. Burrows a lair. Oddly enough the Smithsonian stayed out of the public fight.
I can not tell you the amount of just gold that was removed from that site but we heard over 1.2 billion during the first seven months.

Attached is enough information to form an opinion. Watch how the discovery is covered up.

“Fury from the Sky”

May/June 2015 - #111
*New Light on the “Burrows Cave” Controversy 
Could the Debunkers Have Gotten Ahead of Themselves? *

In 1982, Russell E. Burrows was trolling alone among the sparsely inhabited hills and fields in southern Illinois, twenty miles from the Ohio River. The amateur treasure hunter, originally from West Virginia, would later claim to have been searching for Civil War-era buckles, pioneer horseshoes, or old coins, with his metal detector, when he supposedly fell into a large, overgrown hole. The subterranean interior, he would say, connected to a corridor and series of man-made chambers filled with a vast and bewildering array of black river stones (known as _argillite_), white marble, and sandstone engraved predominantly with the portraits of men attired in the garb of ancient Rome, Judea, Carthage, and West Africa. Other stones were covered with Christian themes and a mix of inscriptions in hieroglyphic Egyptian, Hebrew, Numidian (ancient North African), Ogham (Keltic), and North Semitic (a form of Phoenician). Similar imagery appeared on a cache of gold coins and bars.
Over the next seven years, Burrows removed large numbers of these items, selling them mostly to amateur antiquarians, but was accused by many of engaging in a transparent fraud. While mainstream scholars—convinced that no one from the ancient (old) world arrived in America before Columbus—dismissed the collection out of hand as a bunch self-evident fakes, debate concerning their prehistoric authenticity still rages among many amateur archaeologists, who are, themselves, deeply divided about the real provenance of the “cave” artifacts. This uncertainty was chiefly instigated by Burrows himself, who steadfastly refused to reveal the site of his cave for independent verification, a reluctance that quite naturally cast serious doubt on the veracity of his claims.
After seven years of independent research, Wayne May, publisher of _Ancient American _magazine (Colfax, WI), decided to initiate professional excavations near Richmond County’s Embrarras River, which, he concluded, was the most likely site of Burrows Cave. But after making some promising finds, however, May was forced to discontinue his project for want of financial support, a result of the 2008 recession. About the same time, Bear and Company (Rochester, VT) published my book, _The Lost Treasure of King Juba_, which described the disparate objects allegedly removed from the unidentified site as possible evidence for Roman Era colonizers. These were, I argued, refugees from Emperor Caligula’s invasion of Mauretania, a quasi-independent kingdom in North Africa comprising territories equivalent to modern Morocco and western Algeria.
Juba II (52 BC–AD 23) was a Mauretanian monarch who amassed great wealth coveted by the bankrupt Caesar. Caligula’s imperial legions, on entering the mausoleum containing the King’s treasures, found it empty. Perhaps, I speculated, these riches had been spirited across the ocean to North America. At that time—AD the first century—the Mauretanians were skilled mariners, while our continent was one, vast battlefield of intertribal warfare, save only for part of what is now southern Illinois, where Burrows Cave was said to be found.
Since my book’s publication twelve years ago, new light from various sources has been shed on its still unresolved subject matter. Among the new investigators is Scott Wolter, a university-trained forensic geologist, who subjected several of the alleged artifacts to careful study at his award-winning laboratory in St. Paul, Minnesota. He is also the host of a History Channel series, _Ancient America Unearthed_. While scrutinizing several engraved blocks of white marble from the cave, Wolter discovered that their reverse sides were faintly, but discernibly, carved with Anglo-Saxon names, brief inscriptions in mid-nineteenth century English, along with dates and places of birth and death, together with Christian crosses. They were tombstones from the early to mid-1800s. He and other investigators concluded that someone had stolen badly weathered headstones from an old, southern Illinois cemetery to carve Roman-like imagery on their backsides. Case closed, or maybe not.
On further reflection, the apparent exposure of fraud seemed less clear. Skeptics pointed out that nineteenth-century stonecutters might just as well have stumbled upon some of the anciently engraved slabs in a farmer’s field and exploited the otherwise costly marble for use as grave markers. Such a possibility seemed more plausible to long-term followers of the cave controversy, who recalled that as far back as in the early 1990s, critics of the cave’s self-styled discoverer had noted the resemblance of his carved tablets to tombstones. The point is, if, in fact, these particular stones, engraved with the profiles of helmeted warriors and ancient script, had been recycled as headstones 170 or more years ago, as suggested by the dates on their surfaces, then they could not have been faked in modern times. Unfortunately, there was no way to know for sure, one way or the other.
These nineteenth-century associations seemed to be corroborated by local but unrelated farmers, whose continuous family roots in the area went back to the days of its first modern settlers. When word of Burrows Cave began to spread throughout the region during the late 1980s, a few senior residents recalled how they and their forebears occasionally unearthed similarly illustrated stones while plowing wheat fields. Sometimes, the peculiar objects were kept as curiosities or traded with neighbors but, more often, discarded. These multigenerational inhabitants remember how their grandparents believed that the peculiar artifacts had been used by practitioners of a black-magic cult said to have conducted secret rituals in Richmond County caves during the 1880s and 90s.
While efforts to verify the prior existence of such a group came to nothing, satanic ceremonies and sacrificial activities reportedly occur to this day in rural southern Illinois and, indeed, at least a few Burrows Cave-like stones have surfaced beyond the Embrarras River—most notably, the so-called “Bird-Man Tablet,” found east of the city of St. Louis, just across the Mississippi River in Collinsville, Illinois, at Cahokia, where a large ceremonial center that flourished during the tenth and eleventh centuries AD. Radiocarbon dating of charcoal found at the base of the lobe or stump associated with the tablet found inside Monks Mound—a colossal step pyramid—yielded an approximate date of AD 1310. Discovered in 1971—more than ten years before Russell Burrows first entered his cave—the image on the front of the sandstone depicts a human dressed in eagle or falcon regalia. As such, the Bird Man stone—92 mm long, 62mm wide, and 17mm thick—physically and stylistically resembles Burrows Cave objects.
Excluding the lithic Bird Man and a half dozen or more, similar-sized sandstone tablets found near Cahokia and around Madison County’s Horseshoe Lake, nine miles north of Monks Mound, precisely how many illustrated stones have been associated with Burrows Cave? Estimates ranged from a few dozen to tens of thousands. To calculate a realistic figure, Scott Wolter, Wayne May, and I tallied up all our information concerning Burrows’ customers, compiling the total number of their verified purchases. Unable to track down every, individual object, we could not arrive at a precise determination but did account for around three thousand known artifacts, six thousand less than cited in my book. This number is, nevertheless, still far too great for any single hoaxster—or even a group of forgers—to mass-produce. This conclusion is especially credible given the stones’ sometimes lengthy, complex texts in at least five, different, written languages and the often-high artistic quality of the portraits themselves.
It was, in fact, their frequently visual excellence that particularly attracted the recent attention of Jill Baker. The award-winning painter, illustrator and teacher at the University of Southern Indiana, Evansville, closely studied Burrows Cave imagery, which she easily recognized as the diverse work of not a few, but many different artists. It was clear, then, that most of the numerous depictions were not simply knocked out by untrained craftsmen, but could only have been carefully carved in the hard argillite by skilled hands.
Baker’s research went beyond artistic considerations to the making of a startling deduction: Burrows Cave never existed. Her diligent, personal investigations led back to an old, agricultural estate in southern Illinois. It was here that she learned how Lowery farmstead family members, as long ago as the late nineteenth century, were perplexed by a large, undetermined number of shallow pits pock-marking their land. Inside the irregularly spaced depressions were found caches of mostly black stones inscribed with strange writing and emblazoned with the faces of strange men wearing unfamiliar headgear. Generations of Lowerys regarded these “Indian stones” with superstitious dread and had little personally to do with them. Rumors, nonetheless, spread locally of these mysterious objects, which were eventually featured in a treasure-hunting magazine of the 1920s, according to Kent Christon, antiquarian and lecturer at an alternative archaeology conference held in Washington, Indiana—thirty-four miles, incidentally, from the suspected location of Burrows Cave—last November. It was from a pertinent issue of this old periodical, Christon stated, that Russell Burrows, himself an avid treasure hunter, learned about the Lowery farm pits, from which he extracted and purchased the artifacts.
The farm in question and its many pits—all of them empty now—still exists. The story of its pits may provide an alternative explanation to the “cave,” which Mr. Burrows declined to disclose since he began selling its artifacts in the early 1980s. Or, as other investigators, such as Wayne May, argue, the Lowery site might be an additional source for such objects, which have, as described above, been discovered in other parts of southern Illinois. Before being shut down for lack of funding, May’s forty-foot-tall tractor-rig was positioned by crewmembers above the suspected site and did, in fact, sink a drill bit into an almost perfectly square, stone chamber. Unfortunately, whatever it may once have contained had been flushed out years before by the rushing waters of the nearby Embrarras River. The disappointed researchers concluded that a gunpowder explosion set off too close to the site in late 1989 had ruptured an adjacent aquifer, flooding the chamber to its ceiling. That this artificial, subterranean room had been identified as a possible location for Burrows Cave served to encourage May and his crew.
Since Wayne May’s drill found its mark, there have been other suggestions of less dramatic, but no less revealing, character. May has since obtained an unlikely subgroup of the Burrows Cave collection, comprised of small, polished, dark stone, human figures, occasionally nude, but mostly dressed in what appear to be humble clothes. Carved with contiguous imagery on either side, the objects seem to have served, not ritual purposes, but also, as toys; specifically, dolls, each averaging about four to five inches in length. There are between fifty to seventy of them, sometimes comically portrayed as grumpy-looking laundresses or washer-women, hefting bags of clothes over their shoulders, or engaged in similarly arduous, everyday chores. Three, larger specimens are yellowish-brown sandstone carved in the round.
The charming simplicity of these little models suggests authenticity to some. They also comprise the only known physical references to children throughout the whole assemblage of Burrows Cave materials. After all, the few, university-trained scientists brave enough to risk the ire of their colleagues by speaking out publicly on behalf of the ancient provenance of these and related artifacts were convinced that the body of the site’s material evidence belonged to Roman Era refugees from North Africa, which must have included their children.
James P. Scherz, professor of civil engineering from the University of Wisconsin, in Madison, and a leading archaeoastronomer; Wake Forest University’s professor of history in North Carolina; Dr. Warren Cook, professor of history and anthropology at Vermont’s Castleton State College; and Dr. Joseph Mahan, professor of history at the University of Georgia, in Columbus—have all stated that a neo-Mauretanian colony established itself nearly two thousand years ago in down-state Illinois. Its southern-most frontier was set up against the violent incursions of native American tribal peoples—perhaps, at least partially, the ancestors of today’s Shawnee Indians—in the form of stone battlements atop strategic bluffs forming a staggered line from the Mississippi River in the west across the state to the Ohio River in the east.
When _The Lost Treasure of King Juba _was written twelve years ago, nine such walls were recognized. Since then, Mark Motsinger won the Outstanding Illinois Teacher Award from the Illinois State Historical Society for his discovery of an additional six prehistoric breastworks. Over the last twenty centuries, the devastation of severe earthquake activity in this tectonically active zone—geological lair of the notorious New Madrid Fault—has undoubtedly shaken many of the formerly twelve-foot-high parapets to their foundations, now hidden under thick vegetation that never relinquishes its cover, even in the mild winters of southern Illinois.
Only Motsinger’s methodical research preparation, followed by no less meticulous scouring of the region’s suitable clifftops, enabled him to make his additional discoveries. Commenting on his success, Robert Jackson, a retired forester with the state’s Department of Natural Resources, has himself collected evidence for forty-one ancient, dry-stone bulwarks running from the Missouri to Indiana borders. If Motsinger’s continuing investigations eventually verify these many ancient walls, they could testify to a virtual pre-Columbian Maginot Line in southern Illinois.
While these ongoing revelations offer intriguing, even credible possibilities for the area’s colonization by Roman Era refugees, the location or very existence of Burrows Cave itself is still unknown.

If you recall My mothers younger brother James, CIA, recruited convicts, with the promises of a pardon, to perform missions with them. This was done to lower the military profile and help deniability.

*Ice Nine*

Another edge I crossed, there might be 10-15 pictures in the world of me. At formal black tie type events, even sitting at the dignitary table. We were routinely blacked from the pictures, it was a rite of passage in the unit.



























Give me feed back good ,bad or ugly


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## Whitewave (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: whitewaveDate: 2018-12-04 12:49:13Reaction Score: 1




KorbenDallas said:


> Well, CSA faught the “Dutch” during the Civil War. May be this is the reason for bones going to Holland.


Also, at the time, Oklahoma was only Indian Territory and not a state so probably no real infrastructure or museums. Still, Holland seems a bit far to send artifacts from Oklahoma. Surely there were museums closer.


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2018-12-04 20:56:00Reaction Score: 3


To send those remains all the way to Holland they had to have some serious reasons. Though looking in the general direction, our Holland could just as well be at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean.


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## trismegistus (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: trismegistusDate: 2018-12-04 22:28:51Reaction Score: 6


Sounds like the archaeological equivalent of how they disposed of Osama Bin Laden's body. 

"He's dead!"
"Great, where is the evidence of the raid?"
"That one picture of everyone standing around a TV screen looking _concerned_."
"What did they do with his body?"
"They buried it."
"Oh, okay."
"At sea."
"Surely you didn't need to do that."
"Can you imagine the reaction if people could visit his grave?  There would be _terrorism_"
"Fair point, I am convinced there is nothing more to wonder about here."


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: TaliezinDate: 2018-12-11 10:29:12Reaction Score: 2


Could it be the bones got send to Holland US? There are some place in the US that is called Holland.


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## BStankman (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: BStankmanDate: 2018-12-11 11:33:41Reaction Score: 3




Taliezin said:


> Could it be the bones got send to Holland US? There are some place in the US that is called Holland.


New Amsterdam became New York in the corporate rebranding of 1664.  Glorious revolution.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: TaliezinDate: 2018-12-11 11:36:16Reaction Score: 2




BStankman said:


> New Amsterdam became New York in the corporate rebranding of 1664.


I am not talking about New York, there are still places, not only quarters within cities but city names themselves that are called Holland. Could the bones be sent to Holland US? As in the city Holland inside of the US.


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## Magnetic (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: MagneticDate: 2018-12-11 21:52:35Reaction Score: 7


So I am reading a book about a slave of Charleston who stole a large paddle wheel ship and escaped to the Union Naval line during the siege: Live Free or Die.  In passing they mention that Port Royal of South Carolina had one of the largest libraries in the South and it was turned over to the Smithsonian's only to have it...wait for it...burned in a fire and all was lost!  Part of the aims of the Civil War was to destroy the culture and knowledge that the Southerners had.  I'm with KD that many many things do not add up here and perhaps the South had links to the old Tartaria and the catastrophes that destroyed much of the South (like the burning down of Charleston 5 years earlier) precipitated by southern weakness due to the catastrophes the War of Northern Aggression as Southerners call it.


Magnetic said:


> So I am reading a book about a slave of Charleston who stole a large paddle wheel ship and escaped to the Union Naval line during the siege: Live Free or Die.  In passing they mention that Port Royal of South Carolina had one of the largest libraries in the South and it was turned over to the Smithsonian's only to have it...wait for it...burned in a fire and all was lost!  Part of the aims of the Civil War was to destroy the culture and knowledge that the Southerners had.  I'm with KD that many many things do not add up here and perhaps the South had links to the old Tartaria and the catastrophes that destroyed much of the South (like the burning down of Charleston 5 years earlier) precipitated by southern weakness due to the catastrophes the War of Northern Aggression as Southerners call it.


The Romanov's were not Russian or Tartarian.  So the Czars support could be different than we are led to believe.


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2019-01-23 08:02:03Reaction Score: 17


Some obvious things are hidden in plain view, but we refuse to see them.


_Society of Jesus_
_Smithsonian Institution_


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## pushamaku (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: pushamakuDate: 2019-02-01 07:57:23Reaction Score: 12


*America’s archaeology data keeps disappearing – even though the law says the government is supposed to preserve it*_Archaeology – the name conjures up images of someone carefully sifting the sands for traces of the past and then meticulously putting those relics in a museum. But today’s archaeology is not just about retrieving artifacts and drawing maps by hand. It also uses the tools of today: 3D imaging, LiDAR scans, GPS mapping and more.

Today, nearly all archaeological fieldwork in the U.S. is executed by private firms in response to legal mandates for historic preservation, at a cost of about a billion dollars annually. However, only a minuscule fraction of the data from these projects is made accessible or preserved for future research, despite agencies’ clear legal obligations to do so. Severe loss of these data is not unusual – it’s the norm._

_*Unanswered questions*__Federally mandated projects yield massive amounts of irreplaceable data, particularly on Native American history. Those data are generated for the explicit purpose of benefiting the American public.

The primary data include things like counts of different kinds of artifacts; information on fragments of plant and animals found in fire pits; maps and photographs of ruined buildings; dates from charred roof beams; and the chemical composition of paint on pottery. This allows researchers to understand life in the past – inferring, for example, human population size and movement, social organization, trade and diet.

The data further enable archaeologists to study social processes that are important in today’s world, but that operate so slowly that they aren’t perceptible on time scales available in other social sciences. Why does migration occur? Why do migrant groups maintain their identities in some circumstances and adopt new ones in others? What factors have allowed some societies to persist over very long time periods?

However, this sort of synthetic research depends upon online access to a wealth of research data and unpublished technical reports. Access to these data also gives the researchers the ability to replicate the work of or correct errors by the original investigators.

What’s more, for many, ancestral sites are critical to maintaining identity and purpose in an increasing global world. Government agencies are responsible for appropriately managing sites for their scientific, cultural and educational values. But to do so effectively, they must have access to full documentation of past investigations._

_*Preserving the data*__About 30,000 legally mandated archaeological investigations are conducted each year in the U.S. These projects are usually documented only in so-called “gray literature” reports that, in most cases, are not readily accessible, even to professional archaeologists.

The databases that contain the project data are even less frequently adequately documented, made accessible to other researchers or preserved in a way that will make them likely to be usable in a few years, much less 20 or 50 years. Data may be stored on media that degrade, like punch cards, floppy disks or magnetic tape. Hard disks on office computers or servers may fail, and database software can become obsolete, making the data unreadable. Data may become a victim to institutional housekeeping if files not used within a certain period of time are automatically deleted.

As a professional archaeologist and former president of the Society for American Archaeology, I believe that archaeologists have an ethical obligation to ensure that the digital records of what is discovered, like the artifacts, remain available for study in the future.

There are digital repositories expressly designed to make archaeological information discoverable, accessible and preserved permanently for future use. At my university, I led the initial development of the Digital Archaeological Record (tDAR), which has been publicly available for eight years. tDAR allows archaeologists to directly upload databases, documents, photographs, GIS files and other necessary data. The cost to upload a document or image is typically US$5, while the cost for a database depends on its size. This includes costs of permanently preserving the file and making it continuously accessible.

A similar service is available through the University of York’s Archaeology Data Service in the U.K., which has been around for more than 20 years.

I believe that for all newly authorized projects, agencies must ensure that the full digital record of their archaeological investigations is deposited in a recognized digital repository. That information would then become available not only to researchers and agency personnel, but also to the public. The cost for doing this is about 1 to 3 percent of the archaeological project cost, with lower percentages for larger projects.

Agencies also need to begin properly curating the data from projects that have already been completed. Notably, at tDAR, this process has been started by a number of U.S. agencies, including the Air Force, the Army Corps of Engineers and a few offices at the Bureau of Reclamation and the National Park Service.

Federal agencies are already legally required to preserve the digital records of publicly funded archaeological investigations. They just aren’t doing it. To avoid this is to ignore not only their legal obligations and their obligations to the American public, it is to consign the data – and all that can be learned from them – to oblivion_

*Source:* America’s archaeology data keeps disappearing – even though the law says the government is supposed to preserve it


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: ScottFreemanDate: 2019-02-13 06:31:39Reaction Score: 1




Ice Nine said:


> Holy Cow dudeski, duh-o.  I was thinking too far back, you most def might be on to something for sure. Oh except for some giants and dwarfs being found, made me think of older days, that's all I had to add, except that it might not be significant one way or the other. Still I don't think of, in relatively recent times, dwarfs were being sent to fight. Well there's the LOTR.


Aww crud, now you made me think we might be the Uruk in the story, a created race, hidden hand and all...that would be something for a movie thread!


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Ice NineDate: 2019-02-13 14:24:18Reaction Score: 1




ScottFreeman said:


> Aww crud, now you made me think we might be the Uruk in the story, a created race, hidden hand and all...that would be something for a movie thread!


Somebody made us!  If we could ever see what's hidden at the Smithsonian it might give us some clues.


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## Mabzynn (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: MabzynnDate: 2019-02-14 04:27:03Reaction Score: 8


The story of James Smithson is a swamp.


Born in France as a bastard.  Became a British citizen at the age of 10.  I'm not sure why his parents death are listed so soon in his timeline when his father did not die until 1786 and his mother in 1800.  The official wikipedia throws in that he has a strange step father character named John Marshe Dickson that his own mother seemed to put out a public warning about :


The Oxford Magazine

Anyway he graduates and is accepted into the Royal Society of London after only a year.

Was in Europe during all the upheaval in the early 1800s, seemed to specialize in Alchemy/Occultism, randomly left all of his money to Washington DC despite no connection before dying in Genoa, Italy.  Oh also he was buried in a British Cemetary in Genoa before being moved to Smithsonian Castle in United States.

And the coup de grâce - All his work was destroyed by fire in 1865.


Last Will and Testament, October 23, 1826
In his will he indicates:
I bequeath the whole of my property of every nature & kind soever to my bankers, Messrs. Drummonds of Charing Cross


Which goes directly back to the board of director's for the Company of Scotland which just so happens to have a beautiful flag...


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: ScottFreemanDate: 2019-02-14 05:01:42Reaction Score: 9




Mabzynn said:


> Which goes directly back to the board of director's for the Company of Scotland which just so happens to have a beautiful flag...


I wondered, why Scotland? Here's a connecting string perhaps.

"By Anna Von Reitz

The wage of fraud is confusion.
Let's straighten out everyone's thinking right here and now.
No actual government can be incorporated.
The reason for this is that the moment you incorporate anything, a charter is issued by another, different sovereign entity---thereby subjecting it to the authority of the other sovereign.
Scotland can't issue a charter for the actual government of America.  At most, the nasty vermin can infringe on our international copyright and create a commercial corporation doppelganger.  *Which is precisely what they did in 1868 and what they are trying to do now*.
And as for Keith Livingway and T-Roh they are trying to capitalize on the original Scottish fraud of 1868, trying to say that they bought an interest in that defunct Scottish commercial corporation and therefore now own America.
Good luck with that bull crap.

'*The United States of America, Incorporated' created in 1868 in Scotland was chartered by the Scottish Government*, not the American Government."
From:  The Wage of Fraud

I'm of the opinion at the moment that the Smithsonian may have been created using what appears to be an unmarried childless man's fortune by the same people who also took over the administration of our federal government here around that time.  Or it's just a coincidence that the money and charter lead to the same place.  Also coincidence that the US VP and House Majority leader (corporate positions, both) among others are required to be on the board of the Institute in question.

I think someone was right earlier, Smithson is probably disgusted by what his money was used for.


Mabzynn said:


> Which goes directly back to the board of director's for the Company of Scotland which just so happens to have a beautiful flag...
> 
> View attachment 17056


Something else.  I see a James Balfour on that list.  Is that a popular name?  Due to time being so messy between 1676 and 1917 how could we even tell?

*Balfour Declaration*,  (November 2, 1917), statement of British support for “the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.” It was made in a letter from *Arthur James Balfour**,* the British foreign secretary, to Lionel Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild (of Tring)


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## dreamtime (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: dreamtimeDate: 2019-02-17 14:42:04Reaction Score: 1


New Study Looks at Why Neolithic Humans Buried Their Dogs With Them 4,000 Years Ago

pushing the same old narrative


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## asatiger1966 (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: asatiger1966Date: 2019-02-26 09:51:14Reaction Score: 2




pushamaku said:


> *America’s archaeology data keeps disappearing – even though the law says the government is supposed to preserve it*_Archaeology – the name conjures up images of someone carefully sifting the sands for traces of the past and then meticulously putting those relics in a museum. But today’s archaeology is not just about retrieving artifacts and drawing maps by hand. It also uses the tools of today: 3D imaging, LiDAR scans, GPS mapping and more.
> 
> Today, nearly all archaeological fieldwork in the U.S. is executed by private firms in response to legal mandates for historic preservation, at a cost of about a billion dollars annually. However, only a minuscule fraction of the data from these projects is made accessible or preserved for future research, despite agencies’ clear legal obligations to do so. Severe loss of these data is not unusual – it’s the norm._
> 
> ...


One question for the Smithsonian people, how do they seen to show up at old special locations then act as if they did not notice what they had " stumbled upon"?

Mr. Powell is one such man. The idea came to him that he needed to take a look out west to see if the land was being used to the best advantage. Admirable , So Powell starts at a place called Green River, Wyoming. Oddly enough , see photo below of Tibet fortress, the place looks similar to my vision of an ancient destroyed fortified city?

Green River was incorporated in 1868 in what was then the Dakota Territory, on the banks of the Green River. The city was the starting point from which John Wesley Powell started his famous expeditions of the Green River, the Colorado River, and the Grand Canyon in the late 1800s.[7]* The town of Green River was originally supposed to be the site of a division point for the Union Pacific Railroad, but when the railroad finally reached the point, officials were surprised to find that the large town had already been established there*, likely requiring costly negotiations for railroad land. Crap happens LOL

Trona a valuable crystal like mineral was discovered in Green River. The trona near Green River, Wyoming, is the largest known deposit in the world 
. Back to the destroyed ancient fortress, Trona is found in magmatic environments

On July 12, 1870, Congress appropriated $12,000 for Powell to survey the lands adjoining the Colorado River and its tributaries. The Geographical and Geological Survey of the Rocky Mountain Region, later known as the Powell Survey, was the third of the major western scientific surveys, including those already in progress led by Ferdinand Hayden and Clarence King. Powell’s and Hayden’s civilian surveys were run under the General Land Office of the Department of the Interior. * King’s, though also a civilian survey, was supported by the War Department, under the Treasury. Army Lt. George M. Wheeler launched a fourth, and military, survey in 1871. *

In 1869,* seven months before he received funding*,he set out to explore the Colorado River and the Grand Canyon. Gathering nine men, four boats and food for 10 months, he set out from *Green River, Wyoming*, on May 24. Passing through dangerous rapids, the group passed down the Green River to its *confluence* with the Colorado River (then also known as the Grand River upriver from the junction), near present-day *Moab, Utah*.

Moab, Utah was a land crossing of the Colorado river without a bridge, so its importance was very high for trade. odd as it were,
Moab's economy was originally based on agriculture, but gradually shifted to mining. Uranium and vanadium were discovered in the area in the 1910s and 1920s ?

New bridges were constructed at places other than Moab. In 1883 the Denver and Rio Grande Western Railroad main line was constructed across eastern Utah. The rail line did not pass through Moab. Soon Moab's origins as one of the few natural crossings of the Colorado River were forgotten.   *Nevertheless, the U.S. military deemed the crossing over the Colorado River at Moab important enough to place it under guard as late as World War II *

The mighty Colorado River’s course had, until then, been a mystery even to Native Americans of the region, a blank space on the best maps available. Powell’s expeditions in 1869 and 1871-72 revealed the Colorado’s secrets, as well as some of the most remarkable terrain–including the magnificent Grand Canyon–to be found anywhere on earth.

In 1909 , one, G.E. Kincaid  explored the Grand Canyon and commented on the wonders he and his party had found. A respected man, the first white child born in Idaho, and an explorer for all of his life. His words about the entrance to the discovered *citadel*, his words, are prophetic: ‘First, I would impress that the cavern is nearly inaccessible, he said. The entrance is 1,486 feet down the sheer face of the canyon wall*. It is on government land, and no visitor will be allowed, under penalty of trespass.*

So every place Mr. Powell stopped they were  standing on precious metals and after two trips down the Colorado River they never saw any ancient artifacts . The Army seemed to show up shortly after Mr. Powell's arrival.

Just a bunch of odd timing, a lot of why there. Nobody is that lucky.


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## Bald Eagle (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Bald EagleDate: 2019-04-07 13:02:24Reaction Score: 1


So, I just came across this in my newsfeed, and figured I'd share this as it has some relevance.

Familiar points include Jesuits, museums, recovered artifacts "lost" or destroyed...

They discovered something in Luxor...

Seems these people have a habit of using their institutions as a means of shielding discoveries from outside eyes, burying them, losing them, and destroying them.
Then there's their whole tie-in with the Masons, the Egyptian obelisks in DC, The Vatican, and London, ....

You don't need x-ray vision to know that there's a tuna fish sandwich from last semester in the school locker you're walking past - because the eye-watering stink emanates so strongly from it.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Red BirdDate: 2019-04-07 14:22:06Reaction Score: 8


Here’s a funny story from Tom Horn about Smithsonian accuracy:
PART 2: UNEARTHING The Lost World Of The CLOUDEATERS: Compelling Evidence of the Incursions of Giants, Their Extraordinary Technology, and IMMINENT RETURN

After being on hold for several minutes over the automated system, a woman named Maryann came on the line. The conversation was a well-anticipated dead end. I knew Donna wouldn’t get much info over the phone, but I had her call nonetheless, because it was the line to the generic title “information specialist,” so I just assumed the one who answered the call might know something about it at least. If nothing else, I was sure we would be redirected to the appropriate department or person equipped to answer. However, a couple of this nice and helpful woman’s responses forced a raised eyebrow:

MARYANN: Information center, this is Maryann, how may I help you?

DONNA HOWELL: Hello, I was curious about the tomb of your founding donor, James Smithson. It’s on display there at the Castle, correct?

MARYANN: Yes, his tomb is here.

DONNA HOWELL: Oh, good. I thought so. We’re working on a project and *noticed that the age of death on his tomb was incorrect. *Do you know someone I can ask about this?

MARYANN: Um, uh, um. [She stammered for probably ten seconds straight.] What now? The date is incorrect?

DONNA HOWELL: His age is, yes. It says that he died at seventy-five, but he couldn’t have been older than sixty-four at most.

MARYANN: No, if it says he died at seventy-five, then that would be the age he died. [Her tone was kind, but firm.] It wouldn’t say that on his tomb if [she interrupted herself]— Is there a reason you believe we’re incorrect?

DONNA HOWELL: Oh, actually, it’s in your own literature. I have it pulled up in front of me on your website, as well as a book I have here, published by the Institution in 1904.

MARYANN: [Momentary silence.] You mean we are the ones saying the dating on the tomb is incorrect?

DONNA HOWELL: Yes, that’s right. The story goes that Smithson’s nephew wrote the epitaph and it was engraved that way, but it’s still showing the wrong age. Is it still this way for sentimental purposes, or because it’s considered to be an artifact in itself, or…?

MARYANN: Uh, you know, I don’t know. I don’t think I can answer your question. I don’t have that information. If the display says he was seventy-five years old when he died, then that’s the age [she interrupted herself again]— I mean, it’s what the tomb says, right? We would certainly only give the correct information there. Um. Uh… We don’t just have people on the phone ready to talk about James Smithson.

DONNA HOWELL: I’m sorry. I shouldn’t have assumed that you guys would know the answer to such an obscure question off the cuff. The title “information specialist” threw me off. That was probably a term that referred to scheduled tours or something. Do you know who I might be able to call or email?

MARYANN: Well, I mean we are the specialists here to— We do have information on— I tell you what, why don’t you just send your question in over email?

DONNA HOWELL: Sounds good. [Donna took the info from her and then bravely plugged one last thought.] While I have you on the line, do you happen to know if there is a plaque on display in that room anywhere that corrects the information for visitors? I mean, it’s the Smithsonian. I know the Smithsonian has very high standards of reporting only what’s true. Doesn’t it create an issue that the very founder’s information is in error and that people might be misled? Wouldn’t some think that other information on display there is inaccurate if they learn that this one is?

MARYANN: I don’t believe there is another plaque, no. Just what the tomb says. I understand why you would be concerned, but it is just the date of his age. Everything else here is true. [!!!]

DONNA HOWELL: Oh, of course. I didn’t mean to insinuate there was a conspiracy or anything. Well, this email is helpful, thank you!

Donna ended the call on a cheerful note and let Maryann get on with her day, and then immediately followed up with an email to the address she provided. She received an email back a few days later saying that her question was forwarded to the curator, but the curator never responded.

But readers should not assume that we are patting ourselves on the back just because we were able to prove that a person named Maryann at the information center didn’t know about the tomb of James Smithson. I am well aware that you cannot rely on even the most trained employees of an institution to be able to answer every question about every display on command, and Donna said as much to her during the call. The only thing this short talk confirmed to me was that our national—no, global—attitude toward historical accuracy is yielding, lenient, and far too quick to trust anything a plaque says at a museum somewhere. Maryann was absolutely so sure and so trusting that information on the tomb was accurate, just because it was posted by the Smithsonian authority she works for. Maryann’s response to the display essentially translates, “No, if the Smithsonian said it, it must be true, because they only speak the truth. And if there isan error, then it’s an irrelevant one. No big deal. Just a date. A typo. But everything else is true.” Such a quick conclusion bespeaks of substantial naïveté.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: PairAllelesDate: 2019-04-17 19:02:39Reaction Score: 1


Cross post


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## WorldWar1812 (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: WorldWar1812Date: 2019-05-29 19:45:11Reaction Score: 1


Let me see.

These guys using a jewsuits logo, where founded in 1846
Smithsonian Institution - Wikipedia

Middle 19th century in North-America it's the times of the far west conquest.
Hundreds of tombs with giants skeletons were discovered.

As soon as people crossed the appalachians








Then appeared these Smithsonian guys, and suddenly lots of "dinosaur" bones were well payed.

1842
Dinosaur - Wikipedia
When Was the First Dinosaur Discovered? | Scholastic

You see.

Smithsonian Admits to Destruction of Thousands of Giant Human Skeletons in Early 1900's

Me too. I was blind and now I can walk


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## Mabzynn (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: MabzynnDate: 2019-05-30 00:29:26Reaction Score: 0




WorldWar1812 said:


> Smithsonian Admits to Destruction of Thousands of Giant Human Skeletons in Early 1900's


Can you give your evidence for this?  I can only find articles about articles and no one has provided the Supreme Court ruling.


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2019-05-30 00:49:17Reaction Score: 2




Mabzynn said:


> Can you give your evidence for this?  I can only find articles about articles and no one has provided the Supreme Court ruling.


That one appears to be this:

_Fact Check: This is one you could call a 'giant' hoax_
_Smithsonian Admits Destroying Giant Human Skeletons – Fiction!_
Obviously, the above are just your expected debunkers, but if the ruling did exist... enough time has passed to act upon it. So, I'm afraid, it was just a hoax.

That said, pretty sure things like in the link below were probably real, before being turned into hoaxes to satisfy the narrative.

_The Cardiff Giant Was Just a Big Hoax_


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: ObertrynDate: 2019-05-30 13:07:33Reaction Score: 2




Mabzynn said:


> Can you give your evidence for this?  I can only find articles about articles and no one has provided the Supreme Court ruling.


Yeah, WorldNetDaily has an annoying habit of writing stuff without providing citations. I even wonder if it was a deliberate misleading piece that debunkers could point to as an easy target to poke fun at people who are suspicious of the Smithsonian.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Red BirdDate: 2019-05-30 13:39:04Reaction Score: 5


I guess, to me, all of the wide spread, small town, old newspaper articles of reports of giant findings and subsequent smithsonian takeover are some of the best evidence we can have. Even though newspapers are chronically wrong the gist is there.


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## WorldWar1812 (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: WorldWar1812Date: 2019-06-01 12:15:13Reaction Score: 0




Mabzynn said:


> Can you give your evidence for this?  I can only find articles about articles and no one has provided the Supreme Court ruling.


Is this bone fake?



Or belongs to a dinosaur?


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2019-06-01 12:47:16Reaction Score: 1




WorldWar1812 said:


> Is this bone fake?
> 
> 
> Or belongs to a dinosaur?


Is this article letter fake?
_Dear Christian Friends, I was born and lived in the Middle East from 1938 to 1968.  I was Ain-Tell and Euphrates water works Engineer and was very interested in archaeology and  history and had some very interesting findings, some of which  may sound unbelievable.  I have brought with me a few silex arrow heads, etc., from the very battle-field where King Nebuchadnezzar and Pharo-Necho’s armies fought. And what about the giants mentioned in Genesis?  In south-east Turkey in the Euphrates Valley and in Homs and at Uran-Zohra, tombs of about four meters long  once existed, but now roads and  other construction work has destroyed the spots.  At two places, when unearthed because of construction work, the leg bones were measured about 120 cms.  It sounds unbelievable.  I have lived with my family at Ain-Tell for more than 14 years at the very spot where King Nebuchadnezzar had his headquarters after the battle of Charcamish, where I dug the graves of kings’ officers and found their skeletons like sponge, and when you touch them they become like white ash, with spears and silex and obsidian tools and ammunition laying by._


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## asatiger1966 (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: asatiger1966Date: 2019-06-20 23:06:59Reaction Score: 8




Bald Eagle said:


> So, I just came across this in my newsfeed, and figured I'd share this as it has some relevance.
> 
> Familiar points include Jesuits, museums, recovered artifacts "lost" or destroyed...
> 
> ...



    Found this lost Star Fort, at least from me, in New Mexico. I had a book on Burials of some tribes West of the Mississippi. Happened to check for information on non related matter and surprise, surprise.

I will try to coherently summarize:

This Fort Union is tied to the Smithsonian Institution, Bureau Of American Ethnology, bulletin #83

There is a Star Fort, Fort Union, north east of Santa Fe about 60 miles give or take. The fort has been converted into a State Park. The available information is loose at best. The Smithsonian does not acknowledge that it originally was a star fort.The story seemed to be that it was built in 1851, even though I have a map of 1512 showing the Star Fort in place.

It seems that since 1851 the Fort has been portrayed as a normal four sided frontier post, nothing to see here folks.
The State of New Mexico has made a State Park of the place, with one exception it looks to me the State shows it to have been a star fort built to defend against the Confederacy? In truth the Star Fort was out of commission as a garrison and the regular four sided fort, with same name, was used.

I also think that some of the time during the Civil War the Confederacy occupied the regular fort after running the Union troops off.

What was the Smithsonian really studying at that site other that burial practices of a few tribes? Why is the history so blurred about that fort? there a few strange named places around that fort. Also was that part of New Mexico at one time a part of the Oklahoma Indian Territory?

I am leaning toward KD's idea about constant war in America. The topography of New Mexico does resemble a devastated area similar to Oklahoma. Maybe just maybe this area was a world center and was destroyed? That would explain the big Smithsonian interest.


First in the book there is a sketch of the fort in 1851, way too much electrical looking equipment showing above the fort walls. So the search began.No telegraph lines, electrical or railroads at that time, 1851. But a river that has disappeared. Image Fort Union 8 , how long does it take a river to move and dry up?

I added a few pictures of what might have been structures a long time ago. I liked the two mountains that were both vertically cut, nice, I know natural!

























































I will continue to follow the Smithsonian for now. Thanks.
Also will re-find that 1500s map that shows the Star Fort at "Fort Union"


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Red BirdDate: 2019-06-21 00:04:28Reaction Score: 1


Great post but I think the 5th image might be from Montana. 
Fort Union Trading Post National Historic Site


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## Whitewave (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: whitewaveDate: 2019-06-21 22:00:50Reaction Score: 1


Would love to see that 1512 map showing the star fort before the official narrative says it was built. Great find, btw.


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## asatiger1966 (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: asatiger1966Date: 2019-06-26 02:15:52Reaction Score: 3




Red Bird said:


> Great post but I think the 5th image might be from Montana.
> Fort Union Trading Post National Historic Site


Your right, coming from a military background I would not ever think that the Military would allow the use of the name  of an existing Fort.
Of late my research and time put into it was limited by physical issues. I was cleared today to walk again after four months, two months of bed time, therapy and of course new meds. Broken bones do not work well on older people.


whitewave said:


> Would love to see that 1512 map showing the star fort before the official narrative says it was built. Great find, btw.


I am on it. During the last few months my computer skills went to sleep. I had down loaded it and even blew up the Santa Fe area, but I somehow misplaced the large map in one of my many files, the smaller blow up is too large to put on the site, tried many times. Will work it out. Thanks


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## Whitewave (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: whitewaveDate: 2019-06-26 02:22:09Reaction Score: 1




asatiger1966 said:


> Your right, coming from a military background I would not ever think that the Military would allow the use of the name  of an existing Fort.
> Of late my research and time put into it was limited by physical issues. I was cleared today to walk again after four months, two months of bed time, therapy and of course new meds. Broken bones do not work well on older people.


Glad you're up and around again, asatiger. Hang in there!

btw, did anyone know that the Smithsonian has a volcano institution? I just found that out yesterday. Why would an *American museum* need to keep track of volcano activity around the world? Is it so they can go scoop up the "artifacts" before a place is going to be buried? Totally a conspiratorial thought but, honestly, how is world volcanoes any of the Smithsonian's business? Why would they be involved in that and who authorized their involvement?


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## asatiger1966 (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: asatiger1966Date: 2019-06-26 03:42:47Reaction Score: 1




whitewave said:


> Glad you're up and around again, asatiger. Hang in there!
> 
> btw, did anyone know that the Smithsonian has a volcano institution? I just found that out yesterday. Why would an *American museum* need to keep track of volcano activity around the world? Is it so they can go scoop up the "artifacts" before a place is going to be buried? Totally a conspiratorial thought but, honestly, how is world volcanoes any of the Smithsonian's business? Why would they be involved in that and who authorized their involvement?


I did not, but that institution is scary in what they control. Why would they commit resources to Indian Burial practices?
The guy never lived in the U.S. but controlled everything from a trust in Holland? Even though were led to believe that some of the things we were sent to recover were ancient, not being an archaeologist, we could just as well been destroying  the recent past unknowingly.

They act just as KD says. They hide recent history and institute their narrative. I an changing to nothing is more than a few thousand years old. Maybe with a few exceptions.



whitewave said:


> Would love to see that 1512 map showing the star fort before the official narrative says it was built. Great find, btw.


As I search for my lost map, I came upon these sketches made in 1850. Made by an authorized expedition, authorized by whom?, to the Canyons area of New Mexico.
After my encounter with the Smithsonian at the Oklahoma battlefield, my thoughts are that a very advanced culture lived in the Four Corners area. My opinion.Attached are sketches from that expedition, which will be identified shortly. Just need to back track and cross reference. I though you would enjoy the B.S. on full display.

Once you start looking for one thing, others seemed to be more visible, maybe just me, surely not?

Update: Found some of the expeditions information.The War Department authorized the expedition it would appear.

Attached are more of the natural rock formations found
Some of the local Indians ? The   were described on an old map as the men having full beards, have found no pictures yet.

I have a number of maps that need to be included, but I need to re work their size.

Maybe someone has commented on this particular thought. The founder of the Smithsonian had his trust in Holland. My memory, someone asking the question "why would they send the bodies, concerning the battlefield in Oklahoma with the 100,000 dead warriors? to Holland, Maybe DK?


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: dejavuDate: 2020-01-05 14:25:42Reaction Score: 9


Hello all! Deja here (newbie) just reading through various threads to get a feel for the information being shared on this site. Lots of very interesting thoughts and research going on! Thank you KD for putting together this site.

Happened to be looking through this thread when something caught my eye....


whitewave said:


> The 1897 article mentions that the railcar loads of bones were sent to a museum in Holland. Why in the world why would they go to Holland unless the S.I. was too new to consider for such a find. Considering that the author and the discoverer both considered it the most important archaeological find in history, I'd like to know more about it and whatever became of it, if any more research or written papers are available, etc.


As I continued reading through the discussion, I came across this question, which was somewhat in line with what I was thinking too:


Taliezin said:


> Could it be the bones got send to Holland US? There are some place in the US that is called Holland.


And then I saw this newspaper image posted in a comment later on...


The name caught my eye - Dr. W. J. Holland, curator of the Carnegie museum, Pittsburgh...

Not taking away from other Dutch/Netherlands connections proposed in the discussions, could it be possible this is the "Holland" being referred to IOP? It would make sense to send the bones to a more local curator rather than send them overseas (if the timeline matches up), and the fact that it has ties with Carnegie museum suggests (IMO) the ability to maintain control of the artifacts by the elites of that time.

Apologies if this connection was brought up somewhere, I'm making my way around threads as I have time, but thought it worth posting in case it connects dots somewhere.


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## Whitewave (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: whitewaveDate: 2020-01-05 14:42:22Reaction Score: 2


Nice dot connecting, _@dejavu_ . I'm not sure of the timeline for the battle asatiger mentioned but after much searching I have yet to find anything on the web about an epic battle in Oklahoma, a mass grave or giant bones being sent anywhere. If it wasn't for asatiger's account, we wouldn't have any info on it at all. Thanks for the new lead.


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2020-01-05 14:47:17Reaction Score: 3


_@whitewave_, it could be this story, but it is lacking any textual evidence, as far as I understand.

_The Strange Case of the Human-Bigfoot War of 1855_
Unrelated to the above... the white settlers are to blame, according to Jesuitionian. Yup.

_White Settlers Buried the Truth About the Midwest’s Mysterious Mound Cities_


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## Whitewave (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: whitewaveDate: 2020-01-05 15:29:43Reaction Score: 6




KorbenDallas said:


> _@whitewave_, it could be this story, but it is lacking any textual evidence, as far as I understand.
> 
> _The Strange Case of the Human-Bigfoot War of 1855_
> Unrelated to the above... the white settlers are to blame, according to Jesuitionian. Yup.
> ...


More like white settlers dug up the truth about the mound builders and the Smithsonian buried the truth in a bs story.


whitewave said:


> More like white settlers dug up the truth about the mound builders and the Smithsonian buried the truth in a bs story. Farmers were always digging up bones when they plowed (and the bones were only the depth of a plough tine, so not that old). The natives themselves said they didn't build the mounds and weren't living in those structures that "rivaled European architecture". If they were capable of building sumptuous stone edifices why were they living in earth floored, hide covered tents?  Smithsonian really needs a creative writing staff cuz the drivel they come up with is not even good fiction.
> Hadn't heard about a Bigfoot war so thanks for the article. India has stories about red apes (red hair/fur is a common feature mentioned when describing Bigfoot). In their stories, the red apes were stealing women and had to be hunted down. Very similar to the article. The battle that took place doesn't account for 75,00-100,000 dead bodies in a mass grave. Would really like to learn more about this story but, if it's true, it has been completely erased from all search engines. That, or my search skills suck.


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