# Hidden Nature of the Moon



## dreamtime (Jun 25, 2022)

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivIwdQBlS10


"Everything living on the Earth, people, animals, plants, is food for the moon…. All movements, actions, and manifestations of people, animals, and plants depend upon the moon and are controlled by the moon…. The mechanical part of our life depends upon the moon, is subject to the moon. If we develop in ourselves consciousness and will, and subject our mechanical life and all our mechanical manifestations to them, we shall escape from the power of the moon."_
*- Georges I. Gurdjieff*​
While David Icke was the first to to bring the concept of the moon as a control system to the masses, he plagiarized everything from others. The idea goes back to several occult groups, and the Russian Mystic Gurdjieff was the first to talk about it in explicit words. It was in 1914 that he made this concept public, and this was the time of the emergence of the occult into all public areas of life, including Theosophy, Anthroposophy, etc.

The strange thing is that, before these occult groups in the late 19th and early 20th century, there was no explicit concept about the moon being an artificial structure that's meant to control the human spiritual development.

The first two (subtle) references to the moon as a control structure, it seems, were 1) A book by A. P. Sinnet, called "Esoteric Buddhism" from 1883, and 2) "Fragments of Forgotten History" (1885), both connected to the dubious Blavatsky.

It seems the publications led to an internal struggle between different factions:

In 1883, A.P. Sinnet published 'Esoteric Buddhism', a book that became a widespread bestseller despite its esoteric content. Two years later, by 1885, the book was already in its fifth edition. The book contained erroneous information, and Blavatsky's Secret Doctrine continued along such path of containing confusing or erroneous information - clearly from an angle that wanted to eradiate the teachings of the Christ Impulse.​​This triggered a counter-reaction. In 1893 the unknown C.G. Harrison gave six (most probably inspired) lectures with deep esoteric contents.​
In this lectures, Harrison directly attacks Blavatsky as being controlled opposition:

In other words, she has aimed at establishing a rival Catholic Church, and those who believe that "other foundation can no man lay than that which is laid " will do well to examine the grounds of Theosophic belief and practice, and the pretensions of the Theosophical Society to Catholicity. In regard to Madame Blavatsky herself, as I hope to show, there is reason for believing that she was ignorant, for the most part, of the true sources of her inspiration ; that she was an instrument in the hands of unscrupulous persons who made unfair use of her remarkable gifts and exploited her, so to speak, for purposes of their own ; and that, when more is known of the nature of the conflict which raged around her unhappy personality, she will be regarded as more sinned against than sinning. Moreover, I hope to shew that, in spite of her vast knowledge (obtained Heaven knows where, but almost certainly not from Thibet), she displays, at times, an extraordinary ignorance which it is difficult to account for except on the hypothesis of a deliberate intention to deceive the uninitiated. Her " Secret Doctrine," too, is exceedingly faulty, both in regard to its cosmogenesis and its anthropogenesis, especially the latter ; and is, besides, tinctured and pervaded by her personality to an extent which seriously impairs its value as a scientific work.​
Gurdjieff was never directly connected to the Theosophists, and developed his ideas independently. The Fourth Way teachers starting with Gurdjieff were quite serious in their belief that humans are food for the moon, and everything we do is controlled by the moon directly, and we actually nourish the moon with our behavior.

Gurdjieff said he was the first who was allowed to tell this truth in public, and that it was known for a long time in esoteric circles, and considered secret knowledge.

But throughout history, the moon has always been considered to be connected to the dark side of man, and to the underworld ("lunatic"), so the general connection itself is quite evident. Astrology was seen as a credible science, and it was common-sense that humans were affected by the celestial bodies. Every human being was considered to be primarily related to a certain celestial body, including the moon - at least according to a dubious middle age source called the Housebook of Wolfegg Castle. Even if the book is a humanist forgery, it likely drew on tradition.

We all know about the name Lunacy and Lunatic Asylums - it was even part of the official language with the Lunacy Acts: Lunacy Act - Wikipedia

The emergence of lunatic asylums starting ca 1800 could be explained by changes in the setup of our realm, leading to a dominance of the moon energy, and a spiritual fall of mankind.

I think Gurdjieff was the first to re-introduce a concept about the moon that got lost during the last reset. The problem is that Gurdjieff's concept is likely highly flawed, and only offers us a distorted view of what once was considered the truth. While I consider Gurdjieff to be one of the more credible characters in the occultism movement, he is still shady.

There is also a reference to the moon in an autobiographic book by Mark Hedsel, The Zelator:

‘At the end of the last century an astounding revelation was made, as a result of dissent among members of secret Schools. Information, hitherto guarded jealously by the most enclosed of the inner Orders, was made public. The secrets disclosed pertained to a far deeper level of knowledge than has hitherto been made exoteric by the Schools — even in this enlightened age.’ His trace of cynicism seemed to go by unnoticed.​​‘Our purpose here is not to document how so deep an esoteric idea was made public — or even to assess whether it was wise for this idea to be brought out into the open. All this has been dealt with in the literature — and if any of you wish to follow this up, I will give you a few titles later.​​‘In a nutshell, what was made public during this conflict in the Schools was the truth that our Moon is a sort of counterweight to another sphere, which remains invisible to ordinary vision. This counterweighted sphere is called in esoteric circles the Eighth Sphere.​​‘We must be careful with these words, for, in spite of what I have just said, this region is not itself a sphere, nor is it a moon. Even to locate it behind the physical Moon is not correct, for in the Spiritual realm spaces and distances are different. The truth is that this Eighth Sphere does not pertain to anything we are familiar with on the physical plane, yet we must use words from our own vocabularies whenever we wish to denote its existence. Were we to use a word which fits most appropriately this​Sphere, then we should really call it a vacuum. Certainly, vacuum is a more appropriate term than sphere, for the Eighth Sphere sucks things into its own shadowy existence.​​‘This Sphere is lower in the scale of being than the Seventh Sphere (which is the Earth). It acts as a sort of demonic conduit to suck into its maws certain degenerate Spiritual forms on the Earth. It is a shadow Sphere, controlled by shadow beings. However, the fact that they are shadow beings should not lead us to demote or underestimate their capabilities and intelligence. In many respects they are more intelligent than Man, for they are not limited by the power of love, as is Mankind.​​‘The operation of this Eighth Sphere is complex. Its denizens — those shadowy beings for whom it is home — wish to people their Sphere with humanity, or (more accurately) with human souls. Towards this end, it has erected what we might call terminals on the Earth: these terminals are soul-conduits, which will suck into the lower Sphere a certain form of materialized Spiritual energy that is engendered on the Earth plane. The most usual circumstances where this materialization or engendering takes place is in seances, and in other localities wherein human beings attempt to meddle — against the cosmic law — with the lower Etheric planes.’​
Another reference to a system that robs humans of their precious life energy can be found in the books by Robert A. Monroe (who was likely connected to intelligence in some way).

He called the life energy of humans "loosh", and he also described that he saw giant pipe-like structures that transported the energy generated on earth by humans to another place.

Earth, it would appear, was the creation of a "Someone" coming from "Somewhere" for the purposes of cultivating this Loosh harvest. Apparently, Loosh is of great value in Somewhere, but is relatively scarce and hard to find. This Someone coming from Somewhere was the being/entity/intelligence that created the Earth Life System that we see in effect upon this planet today. In the course of experimentation, it was discovered that Loosh was emitted in a very unrefined state as a natural by-product of the carbon/oxygen life cycle taking place on Earth.​
While the movie does not mention any of the above esoteric knowledge, I think it's a good background info to speculate that the PTB are obsessed with the moon. In my view the occult movements 100 years ago spilled out certain truths because it was a time when the power elite was still in flux and wasn't as good as today in keeping certain things completely secret.

On a more superficial scientific level, several curious facts have been noted before:

The Moon is, from our perspective, the same size as the sun. But scientists explain this away by saying that the moon is simply 400 times closer to us than the sun, and also 400 times smaller, so it all makes sense in theory. But this is still a remarkable coincidence, that needs an explanation.​
The moon always shows us the same side, suggesting it's actually artificial.​
There are reports that the moon is hollow, and sounds like a hollow bell.​


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEMCyX226ww_​

All of those basic observations are  - jokingly - packed into a new movie by Roland Emmerich as the story foundation.

I know from a friend of mine that a consultant for Emmerich's movie 2012 was Dieter Broers, so he is definitely interested in fringe theories. In the movie, the moon is a giant hollow dyson sphere, powered by a white dwarf, and keeps safe the genetic code for seeding planets like earth, like a giant ark.

Roland Emmerich considers his movie as an allegory about the dangers of climate change, unsurprisingly he is in line with the current political propaganda.

While the movie itself doesn't offer anything new, and actually ridicules conspiracy theorists to a certain extent, it introduces the idea that the moon is an artificial construct, and that the conspiracy theorists are actually right in the end. Of course, like always today, this is connected to the hyped concept of A.I., which has been replacing the Alien threat in science-fiction movies. And, like always, the heliocentric nihilistic model of our earth is pushed, which is sufficient to keep people asleep.

The way I see (good) science-fiction and fantasy stories is that both contain elements that people long for, but are not allowed to be part of the official narrative about how our world works. These books and movies often contain different aspects that we have collectively lost - primarily the idea that life has a deeper meaning, that there are invisible worlds that are not perceivable directly, and that there's more to life than the material world. Fantasy stories clearly draw from our own history - "magic" was seen as real in the past, before the Church and modern science.

It's clear that the world of our official narrative about the nature of our realm is so boring that it's impossible to use this reality as a foundation for a fascinating story - officially, nothing ever happens except a slow, random evolution. The danger of climate change is the closest concept we have of imminent catastrophism - but it remains very abstract, and is also not very credible because the idea of gradualism is so deeply engrained into our culture. So I think the people who try to sell us the idea of climate change use our collective memories of our catastrophic past to manipulate us, and this movie is no different. A movie about the sea level rising by 20 centimeters, and some people having more problems in daily life due to a slightly warmer wheather, and having to move inlands or buying air conditioning systems would not be selling well, I guess..


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## Prolix (Jun 25, 2022)

Dark Journalist on YouTube is very keen on Blavatsky and Steiner; I won't provide a specific link, as his shows on the two are so numerous, it would be best just to have a look at his channel and pick one. He's very much of the view that they're bona-fide (he’s a good source for detail, but very – absurdly, even – credulous in certain areas, such as the Moon landings).

Although I find Steiner's work fascinating, I'm increasingly tending to the position that he's not that much more than a Blavatsky variant (so controlled opposition). He had his own thoughts on the Eighth Sphere; I recall he said that it had been discussed out of turn and couched inaccurately by a theosophist (AP Sinnett). Dark Journalist is disposed to conjecture that the subject is a potential a description of a virtual reality, or simulation; he's looking at this in terms of Steiner's Ahriman concept (Ahriman coming in as a negative influence that supplants the Luciferian influence), Ahriman being about bring us all down to association only with the material realm. Which is where the Steiner talk about a vaccine that could remove any connection to the spirit comes in. Steiner’s lecture discussing the Eighth Sphere can be found here.

A few Steiner bits on the Eighth Sphere:



> Asuras are spirits of the very greatest egoism who remained behind during Saturn evolution. They want to condense matter and compress it ever more so that it can't be spiritualized and brought back to its original condition. They're the dregs of the planetary evolution that goes form Saturn to Vulcan. The asuras inhabit the moon and from there they work on the men whom they want to drag down into the eighth sphere and thereby tear away from progressive evolution and its goal — the Christ. All those who strive towards the eighth sphere will eventually live on a moon.



From the comments section of this blog:



> The Eighth Sphere is an accident of sorts, with immense consequences for earth evolution. Out of its origination, the external world of phenomena [appearance] arose as its effect, and matter [materialism] as the result. Our instrumentation of sense perception exists to perceive this outer external world of appearance, i.e., Maya, and this is owed to how the Eighth Sphere formed, and what it is. Lucifer and Ahriman were postured specifically for this creation, but what is much less well known is how they came to gain a kind of independence from the Beings of the Third Hierarchy in order to make this their designated task in earth evolution.



I gravitate towards the plasma Moon theory, so I tend to interpret ideas of a hollow Moon ringing like a bell read as designed to reinforce the physical Moon story: if there’s a hidden truth about the nature of the physical Moon – one_ THEY_ are hiding from us – then, of course, there can be no question the Moon itself _must_ be physical.

I’ve read that Emmerich’s a 33rd degree Mason – also that Ron Howard had to be initiated to that level before making _Apollo 13 _– and he’s certainly made a career of reinforcing/manipulating/programming dominant paradigm concepts and those with an alternative/conspiracy angle, often with a global-disaster twist: Grey-ish alien invasion from outer space (_Independence Day_); climate change apocalypse (_The Day After Tomorrow_); Egyptian Chariots-of-the-Gods aliens (_Stargate_); transhumanist super soldiers (_Universal Soldier_); prehistory complete with Atlanteans and dinosaurs (_10,000 BC_); Mayan apocalypse (_2012_); who wrote Shakespeare’s plays (_Anonymous_). You can find my take on _Moonfall_ here.


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## dreamtime (Jun 26, 2022)

Prolix said:


> You can find my take on _Moonfall_ here.



The transhumanist technology agenda is pretty obvious, as you mentioned. This is probably the next level of "evolution" (devolution actually) they have planned for us.



Prolix said:


> Although I find Steiner's work fascinating, I'm increasingly tending to the position that he's not that much more than a Blavatsky variant (so controlled opposition)



The sad thing is that all of those concepts that came from those groups exclusively, like the eighth sphere, can not be taken at face value. in the end it may all be a big psy-op without a basis in reality. There's no way to verify any of it.


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## Prolix (Jun 26, 2022)

dreamtime said:


> his is probably the next level of "evolution" (devolution actually) they have planned for us.



_Had_ planned, certainly. I'm quite optimistic none of this will transpire.


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## Metatron (Jun 26, 2022)

This is an area of study I have not looked into before and it is very interesting.  @dreamtime Thank you for the great post.


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## Catalyst (Jun 27, 2022)

dreamtime said:


> _"Everything living on the Earth, people, animals, plants, is food for the moon…. All movements, actions, and manifestations of people, animals, and plants depend upon the moon and are controlled by the moon…. The mechanical part of our life depends upon the moon, is subject to the moon. If we develop in ourselves consciousness and will, and subject our mechanical life and all our mechanical manifestations to them, we shall escape from the power of the moon."_
> *- Georges I. Gurdjieff*​



From the very childhood I knew that souls go to our Moon, which acts as a main repository and tool for reincarnation mechanism, set up by our creators. I've been trying to spread this idea among many acquaintances and even random people but almost none of them were ready to accept this idea.

It is curious to point out the fact that among those few people who speak out about the true nature of our Moon, most tend to present it in either neutral or negative way. Like as if we were slaves to its influence. I personally believe that it is the only way to get things done. I mean, how else could Gods bring up new civilizations? Imagine yourselves in their position - you create humans and give them some knowledge and power. How can you make sure that they grow into good beings? What if they turn to the "dark side"? It's not the first time I'm expressing this idea, but I am almost absolutely sure that Earth acts as a training camp for young souls, that go through this "life/training' to become better and go to higher worlds (other planets with more advanced life conditions). If a soul can't develop or degrades, it stays for another life-cycle, or maybe gets transformed/recycled into a different form or energy.


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## Catalyst (Jun 27, 2022)

Another idea that I always adhered to, is that our Moon can be a storage not just for human souls, but also for knowledge. The very knowledge that appears in your heads when you think about something. It acts like a server, for downloading and uploading thoughts.


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## dreamtime (Jun 27, 2022)

Catalyst said:


> It is curious to point out the fact that among those few people who speak out about the true nature of our Moon, most tend to present it in either neutral or negative way. Like as if we were slaves to its influence. I personally believe that it is the only way to get things done.



If the sun is symbolized by Jesus ("I am the light of the world."), the moon could be the opposing influence that counteracts the sun-energy, and acts as a catalyst for soul growth.

On one hand the moon would be needed for soul experience and soul growth, on the other hand, from our own human perspective, it's still negative and needs to be overcome eventually. The influences coming from the moon would have to be made conscious at least, to not be controlled by them.

Menstruation was synchronized with the moon originally before artificial life disrupted this natural cycle (Is Menstruation Linked with the Moon? The Science and the Spiritual Meanings), but today a normal cycle is still the same length as the lunar cycle, although many women are also starting to disconnect from this, the sicker society becomes.

The Female principle is connected to the earth and the material world more than the male principle, so the moon appears to be part of the system governing the material illusion and keeping it in place.

What's certain for me is that the moon, just like everything else in our realm, is an artificial setup that has been put there by someone who designed everything with a purpose.

The moon being the same size as the sun, showing only one side and being connected to the movements of the sun suggests to me that the moon is an optical illusion in the sense that it's actually the back of the sun (Wildheretic explains why this makes sense if you believe in concave earth). No matter the form of the earth realm, there are several signs that suggest the moon is more an optical illusion than a physical object, i.e. the way it changes in subjective size.

If the moon and the sun is the same, it would be funny from a symbology perspective, in the sense that the moon is also Jesus or the light of the world, but in disguise.

There are at least some subtle references in older sources that speak of a time without a moon, even if you ignore the dubios bible quotes which are twisted by Velikovsky: When the Earth was Moonless, The Earth Without the Moon

The interesting thing is that in a concave earth, the moon would not have to be built anew if it is simply the back of the sun - simply changing the movements and/or electromagnetical properties of the sun would be enough to make the moon appear to us in the sky.

Personally I think that every earthly age has a unique experience and needs a certain setup from our environment - a certain way the objects in the sky and the chemicals in our environment (oxygen, carbon dioxide, metals) need to be arranged, to produce certain experiences and states of body and mind.

The center of our realm in the sky would be the perfect place for the "creators" to dwell in and observe their creation. Maybe sometimes they change certain variables here and there, and to make tabula rasa they cause a cataclysm (wiping out 99% of humanity, and then seed a new generation, and every time if at least a few people survive we get the stories we have about floods and catastrophes.

I also believe that the separation between the material world and finer forms of energy is just a concept that came from faulty science, and in reality all of this is one - i.e. that means that if souls are recycled (reincarnated) there has to be a physical system in places that automates this process and makes it possible, so souls going to the moon in between lifes makes a lot of sense. The way this works is likely related to the electro-magnetical system of our realm, and to the sun, moon and other astronomical bodies (especially the sun) which power this system.

The reality we live in is probably simple and easy to understand, but academics have made it extremely complicated during the last hundreds years, and we have lost most of the memories of our ancestors that were still connected to an objective understanding of our realm, including the moon and the other big objects ("planets"). Sadly simply knowing the basics our ancestors knew (i.e. "the planets affect us", etc.) is not very helpful in practice, since we have lost most of the practical knowledge. It was the practical kowledge that made all the difference, i.e. what people did in certain circumstances to live in harmony with the environment and make the most of it.


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## AllLuckNoSkill (Jun 28, 2022)

dreamtime said:


> The reality we live in is probably simple and easy to understand, but academics have made it extremely complicated during the last hundreds years, and we have lost most of the memories of our ancestors that were still connected to an objective understanding of our realm, including the moon and the other big objects ("planets"). Sadly simply knowing the basics our ancestors knew (i.e. "the planets affect us", etc.) is not very helpful in practice, since we have lost most of the practical knowledge. It was the practical kowledge that made all the difference, i.e. what people did in certain circumstances to live in harmony with the environment and make the most of it.


This is the gist of the problem in my opinion. How to take all this spiritual/hisotrical/esoteric knowledge and apply it in practice, in everyday life. How to use it to better yourself and those around you? How to use it to cause tangible change in your surroundings?
For example, what practical application does the knowledge that the Moon is artificial actually have on everyday life? I guess if you believe that it is a soul trap, you know that you shouldn't go into the light when you die...and that you should live as virtuously as possible, or else you will get your memory wiped and get reincarnated instead of ascending to another plane....but that is not practical application for everyday life, that is application for the afterlife. I guess you could argue that this knowledge ''made you'' live virtuously which has a benefit to yourself and others, and that this is the practical application...
Or perhaps, knowing that history is a lie, the Moon/space thing is a lie etc. leads you to the conclusion that TPTB lie at best and are genocidial maniacs at worst...so dodgning the kill shot is probably one practical application. But its not like that you will use this knowledge to buy additional real estate for profit, its not like you are going to use this knowledge to know how to short positions and make money on the stock market or get that dream woman you've been crushing on...or can you?


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## ViniB (Jun 28, 2022)

AllLuckNoSkill said:


> This is the gist of the problem in my opinion. How to take all this spiritual/hisotrical/esoteric knowledge and apply it in practice, in everyday life. How to use it to better yourself and those around you? How to use it to cause tangible change in your surroundings?
> For example, what practical application does the knowledge that the Moon is artificial actually have on everyday life? I guess if you believe that it is a soul trap, you know that you shouldn't go into the light when you die...and that you should live as virtuously as possible, or else you will get your memory wiped and get reincarnated instead of ascending to another plane....but that is not practical application for everyday life, that is application for the afterlife. I guess you could argue that this knowledge ''made you'' live virtuously which has a benefit to yourself and others, and that this is the practical application...
> Or perhaps, knowing that history is a lie, the Moon/space thing is a lie etc. leads you to the conclusion that TPTB lie at best and are genocidial maniacs at worst...so dodgning the kill shot is probably one practical application. But its not like that you will use this knowledge to buy additional real estate for profit, its not like you are going to use this knowledge to know how to short positions and make money on the stock market or get that dream woman you've been crushing on...or can you?


Those are pretty good questions, i believe we can manifest things/people/experiences beyond our wildest imaginations in a Constant elevated state of being, that to me is the natural way of being. The trick is how to maintain that elevated state all day 
Learned this gold knowledge after years of studying Dr Joe dispenza's work, can't recommend enough


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## Catalyst (Jun 29, 2022)

AllLuckNoSkill said:


> This is the gist of the problem in my opinion. How to take all this spiritual/hisotrical/esoteric knowledge and apply it in practice, in everyday life. How to use it to better yourself and those around you? How to use it to cause tangible change in your surroundings?
> For example, what practical application does the knowledge that the Moon is artificial actually have on everyday life? I guess if you believe that it is a soul trap, you know that you shouldn't go into the light when you die...and that you should live as virtuously as possible, or else you will get your memory wiped and get reincarnated instead of ascending to another plane....but that is not practical application for everyday life, that is application for the afterlife. I guess you could argue that this knowledge ''made you'' live virtuously which has a benefit to yourself and others, and that this is the practical application...
> Or perhaps, knowing that history is a lie, the Moon/space thing is a lie etc. leads you to the conclusion that TPTB lie at best and are genocidial maniacs at worst...so dodgning the kill shot is probably one practical application. But its not like that you will use this knowledge to buy additional real estate for profit, its not like you are going to use this knowledge to know how to short positions and make money on the stock market or get that dream woman you've been crushing on...or can you?



It's all about your life values and goals. Nobody prohibits you from having money/real estate/women while knowing the truth. It is absolutely ok if you want it or have it. But if a person doesn't have a goal that is above all those materialistic values, and if a person can't understand why he/she needs to have one, it probably means this person is not ready yet. We all have different stages of life. Being toddlers, kids, teens, then adults. And during each stage we have different values and priorities. Our souls go through a similar system of stages. So maybe, if you feel that you want to have some fun, indulge yourself with various pleasures - it's ok, and probably means that your soul is still young and acts in accordance with the stage that it currently passes. Like a kid, caring more about playing rather than studying, a young soul wants pleasures instead of great deeds and spiritual development.

But at the same time, I personally believe that each person has his unique reasons for being here. So it's not about leaving everything behind, sitting somewhere in the forest and meditating to reach "higher consciousness". It's more about finding your own path and becoming a better person.


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## feralimal (Jun 29, 2022)

I haven't watched the film, but noticed that another alternative researcher has done a sort of review on it.


_View: https://www.bitchute.com/embed/2hR5Qhkmm4Ul/_

Re what the moon is, I've no idea.  It could just be a light.  The way it is light reflects off it, indicates to me that it is more like a flat plate than a sphere, but I can't really say.


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## Cosmicparrot (Jul 5, 2022)

dreamtime said:


> _View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivIwdQBlS10
> 
> 
> "Everything living on the Earth, people, animals, plants, is food for the moon…. All movements, actions, and manifestations of people, animals, and plants depend upon the moon and are controlled by the moon…. The mechanical part of our life depends upon the moon, is subject to the moon. If we develop in ourselves consciousness and will, and subject our mechanical life and all our mechanical manifestations to them, we shall escape from the power of the moon."_
> ...



The moon is 3300 miles up in the sky, 32 miles in diameter just as the Sun is. The moon is light. Illuminated plasma. Since space is not real - both bodies are in our system and in the middle is the fixed star (light) Polaris. All stupid, silly movies like Moonfall just are created by the Freemason World of Lies and Deception. They want us to believe in their stupid theories (which are just theories) which when basic logic and critical thinking is applied the stories, theories and evidence fall apart. They think we are dumb, blind and cannot see the veil has been pulled over our eyes. Nice post though. I will give the movie a pass.


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## Nonat (Jul 5, 2022)

feralimal said:


> Re what the moon is, I've no idea.  It could just be a light.



Sounds quite plausible to me:


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## dreamtime (Jul 10, 2022)

Someone posted two interesting links in the german forum on the corresponding thread.

The first is a remote viewing session, that was since deleted from the original channel (supposedely because the remote viewers were too shocked by their own discoveries). The remote viewers discover a soul-control system that steals our energy and recycles our souls:


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05gB1Y4H4h8_

From 17:00 - How did this begin?

_Historically, in the past, the planet was viewed with extreme envy by an external force, and that there existed a time when reincarnation did not exist, when there was life here, but when these individuals or when life forms died here they weren't trapped, they were able to leave. What occured can simply be described as a massive war._​
The force that wanted to protect this planet lost to the outside party. Control over earth was given to this outside party.

The second is a link discussing the Upanishads, and the two paths - the path of the moon leading to sould recycling and karma, and the path of the sun, leading to liberation:

The Upanishads suggest that after death, human beings reach one of the three worlds mentioned in the Vedas: the sun, the moon, and the underworld (Patala). Those who achieve liberation (moksha) from the cycle of births and deaths through austerities and renunciation go to the world of Brahman by the sunlit path of the immortals (devayana).​​(...)​​"_Now, those who win the worlds by sacrifices, charity and austerity they pass into the smoke, from the smoke into the night, from the night into the fortnight of the waning moon, from the fortnight of the waning moon into the six months during which the sun files southwards, from these months into the world of ancestors, from the world of ancestors into the moon. Upon reaching the moon, they become food. There the gods enjoy them, just as the priests enjoy the drink of Soma watching the moon wax and wane. When that ends (due to the exhaustion of karmas) they enter into space, from space into air, from air into rain, from rain into the earth. Having reached the earth, they become food. Then they are again offered in the fire of man, and from there into the fire of a woman so that they can go again to the other worlds. Thus, they keep rotating._"​​Finally, those who commit mortal sins and lead very impure and evil lives fall down into the lower world, below the earth where they suffer for their crimes. When their karmas are exhausted they return to earth to take birth as worms, insects and other low life forms. Thus there are three paths.​​
Devayana, the path of the immortals, lit by the sun. By truth alone one travel by this path (satyameva jayate - Mundaka Upanishad).
Pitrayana, the path of the ancestors, lit by the moon.
Adhoyana, the path of sinners, covered in darkness.

Devayana - The Immortal Path of Liberation


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## feralimal (Jul 10, 2022)

Re the Upanishads (and frankly any religious claims about the next life),  the question for me is 'how can we know?'  What's the difference between this and any other story (eg that the moon is made of cheese), except for the fact that there is a potential value for whoever is running the story.  The value being the people who believe and will do someone else's requests, ie harnessing of the believer's autonomy by the religious hierarchy.  All these stories seem to end up in _not_ in service of the believer anyway..


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## dreamtime (Jul 10, 2022)

feralimal said:


> Re the Upanishads (and frankly any religious claims about the next life),  the question for me is 'how can we know?'  What's the difference between this and any other story (eg that the moon is made of cheese), except for the fact that there is a potential value for whoever is running the story.  The value being the people who believe and will do someone else's requests, ie harnessing of the believer's autonomy by the religious hierarchy.  All these stories seem to end up in _not_ in service of the believer anyway..



It's not about whether it's true or not, but whether our ancestors believed in it or not. Comparing historical and religious texts is the only tool we have left to discover the truth about how our ancestors viewed the world. If cultures all over the world mention the moon being made of cheese, it would be as valuable as anything else, simply because we have to respect our ancestor's views and take them seriously.

The problem is of course censorship and history rewriting, which happened, which means religious texts not only have to be compared to find patterns and similarities, but also analyzed for fraud and lies.

So primarily I don't ask whether the Upanishads are objectively true, but whether they are inherently plausible, and have similarities to other historic sources, and to other lesser forms of evidence (i.e. remote viewing, channelings, mystics etc.).


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## feralimal (Jul 10, 2022)

I get that, you're pattern matching.  I think there's a value to that.

I probably take an even more hard line that you, without personal verification all the rest is in an assumption.  Historical accounts could be faked, people can be tricked en masse (as we have seen these past 2 years), people will create volumes of work on things they have no personal knowledge of, etc.  To me, 'information' is an industry and means of control; it has only a incidental association with truth.

This applies even more so to metaphysical information, which at best is an account of someone else's experience.  The religious accounts might be someone's written testimony, then formally written up into doctrine...  But I don't know, and worse I don't think there is a way for this info to ever be known.  If one were able to gain some personal experience of some metaphysical thing perhaps it is possible to convince oneself.

Fwiw, I think those things where one can say "I know" are very few (even if we use those words a lot).  I personally recognise 3 types of things are commonly said to be known: general facts about the world (eg historical facts), info from experience (current experience and memory) and conceptual principles (eg the principle of how a screw and screwdriver works).  I don't think we can actually know general facts (unless we have personal experience of the event); I think we can only know our current personal experience (but our own memories are fallible and can be implanted/altered).  Conceptual principles (logic reason) seem to be the best (least disputable) when it comes to knowledge, imo.


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## Just (Jul 11, 2022)

feralimal said:


> I get that, you're pattern matching.  I think there's a value to that.
> 
> I probably take an even more hard line that you, without personal verification all the rest is in an assumption.  Historical accounts could be faked, people can be tricked en masse (as we have seen these past 2 years), people will create volumes of work on things they have no personal knowledge of, etc.  To me, 'information' is an industry and means of control; it has only a incidental association with truth.
> 
> ...





feralimal said:


> I get that, you're pattern matching.  I think there's a value to that.
> 
> I probably take an even more hard line that you, without personal verification all the rest is in an assumption.  Historical accounts could be faked, people can be tricked en masse (as we have seen these past 2 years), people will create volumes of work on things they have no personal knowledge of, etc.  To me, 'information' is an industry and means of control; it has only a incidental association with truth.
> 
> ...


As Henry Ford (allegedly) said, ‘History is (more or less) bunk!’ If we don’t know where we’ve come from, how can we know where we’re going? I’ve learnt so much on this site about how to unlearn my past ‘knowledge’. And now I have to rebuild the world with the few things I trust one of which is my own bullshit detector.


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## dreamtime (Jul 11, 2022)

feralimal said:


> without personal verification all the rest is in an assumption.



That's a given. There's no reason to believe anything, and metaphysical and occult stuff is very suspect. At the same time, it's important to collect available data, if it exists, and don't ignore it completely just because there's no direct way to verify it.


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## Froglich (Jul 19, 2022)

_"...The moon always shows us the same side, suggesting it's actually artificial....."_

Tidally-locked moons are not only the norm, they are no observed examples in the solar system that _aren't_.


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## feralimal (Jul 19, 2022)

Froglich said:


> _"...The moon always shows us the same side, suggesting it's actually artificial....."_
> 
> Tidally-locked moons are not only the norm, they are no observed examples in the solar system that _aren't_.


You've observed other moons to confirm, ie this is personal testimony?  Or are you quoting Wikipedia as a source of truth here?


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## Froglich (Jul 19, 2022)

feralimal said:


> You've observed other moons to confirm, ie this is personal testimony?  Or are you quoting Wikipedia as a source of truth here?


If I were to claim, "Ravens are black," and you rejoined that they were some other color instead (let's say white), and chastised, "You've observed other ravens to confirm, ie this is personal testimony?  Or are you quoting Wikipedia as a source of truth here?"

-- You know what I'm going to do?  Ask you to show me a white raven, thereby subjecting you to your own standards of proof. What's good for the raven is good for the raptor, right?

Therefore: I will ask you to show me *one* moon in the entire solar system that is _not_ tidally-locked, and expect standards of proof equivalent to what you expect of me. Pick any planet with moons (all planets from Earth outward have moons). Show me _one_ moon that's dizzying around like a tucked-in iceskater wrapping up her routine.

~ ~ ~

And, since my honor was impugned, see here, wherein I write, "Tilting at Windmills in the Wikipedia Big Lie Factory", recounting my experiences as an editor there before moving on to more hospitable, less-spooky wikis).


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## CathyHT (Jul 20, 2022)

Cosmicparrot said:


> The moon is 3300 miles up in the sky, 32 miles in diameter just as the Sun is. The moon is light. Illuminated plasma. Since space is not real - both bodies are in our system and in the middle is the fixed star (light) Polaris. All stupid, silly movies like Moonfall just are created by the Freemason World of Lies and Deception. They want us to believe in their stupid theories (which are just theories) which when basic logic and critical thinking is applied the stories, theories and evidence fall apart. They think we are dumb, blind and cannot see the veil has been pulled over our eyes. Nice post though. I will give the movie a pass.


I am in agreement with you.  Do you have any more posts I could read?


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## feralimal (Jul 20, 2022)

Froglich said:


> If I were to claim, "Ravens are black," and you rejoined that they were some other color instead (let's say white), and chastised, "You've observed other ravens to confirm, ie this is personal testimony?  Or are you quoting Wikipedia as a source of truth here?"
> 
> -- You know what I'm going to do?  Ask you to show me a white raven, thereby subjecting you to your own standards of proof. What's good for the raven is good for the raptor, right?
> 
> Therefore: I will ask you to show me *one* moon in the entire solar system that is _not_ tidally-locked, and expect standards of proof equivalent to what you expect of me. Pick any planet with moons (all planets from Earth outward have moons).


That's not how logic works.  If I say I have a dinosaur in my pocket, you don't have to disprove that.  I would need to prove my claim.

Here, I'm not making any claims, so it's not for me to disprove anything.  For what it's worth, I don't even know what those lights in the sky are, whether they are even physical objects.  I certainly haven't seen moons on other planets.  Obviously I haven't confirmed that they are are tidally locked.

I am somewhat familiar with what agencies such as NASA say, but then I have seen lots of their own evidence that proves that the footage they give us is trickery.  If my understanding of their footage is right - that they are merrily misrepresenting reality in some cases - why would I then trust them to faithfully relay other information?  Especially when I cannot verify any of it for myself?  How could I know that such-and-such imagery was of a tidally locked moon and not a generated graphic?

Anyway, if you can't confirm something and can't explain to me how I verify it for myself (in this case the existence of tidally locked moons), that's fine.  But that idea/story cannot be considered as knowledge to you or me - it's just a story.

You _can_ say that 'Wikipedia says all moons are tidally locked'. That too is not knowledge, but you at least would be honestly relaying information, rather than overstating what you think you know. If you did that, we could then discuss whether Wikipedia is faithfully expressing reality or not, and you would not feel that I was personally attacking you.


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## Froglich (Jul 20, 2022)

Cosmicparrot said:


> The moon is 3300 miles up in the sky, 32 miles in diameter just as the Sun is. The moon is light. Illuminated plasma.


Through the eyepiece of a mid-grade telescope, the lunar surface is in rather crisp 4k quality (aside from atmospheric shimmer). An interesting sort of plasma that manifests as an incredibly-detailed solid object rather than a hazy blob under magnification. (Then there's the matter of keeping the tides synched to this illusion and keeping it running for thousands of years without a glitch cluing in the savages below.) Meanwhile, a solar illuminator only 3300 miles away somehow manages to illuminate the planetary hemisphere under it without wonky parallax oddities giving the fakery away, or how an object only 32 miles wide can cast enough light to warm a hugely efficient black-body radiator (the Earth) up to a livable temperature without either immediately gamma-cooking everyone to death or instantly frying a hole in the backdrop of the celestial greenscreen as if it were a carbon arc floodlight inserted into a table-lamp.

<eyebrow lift><totally not the setting of _Scrapped Princess_>

For all the work our alien lizard overlords would have to put into building such an insanely complicated 15,000 mile wide sky-sphere terrarium to cocoon their full-sized, 7800m diameter ant-farm, you'd think it'd be a lot easier and cheaper to just haul in a real moon from one of the outer planets and park it in orbit around this one. After all, if a two-stroke diesel will get the job done, you don't drag a barge down the river tethered to a squadron of fighter-jets (even if that would look totally baller in a _Fast and the Furious_ sequel).


feralimal said:


> That's not how logic works.  If I say I have a dinosaur in my pocket, you don't have to disprove that.  I would need to prove my claim.


Nevertheless, presumably you have a _some basis_ for objecting over what most would consider innocuous conjecture. (We're talkin' about a big, gray, inanimate rock here; it's not as if some cabal spokescritter were bloviating the latest excuses for streamlined looting on TV and set off our Spidey-senses fine-tuned for discerning high-grade bullshit.)


feralimal said:


> You _can_ say that Wikipedia says all moons are tidally locked.  That too is not knowledge, but you at least would be honestly relaying information, rather than overstating what you think you know.


I suppose Aristarchus'_ "On the Sizes and Distances" _is out of the question, since those cads at Wikipedia made articles for him and it._ The bastards!_


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## Citezenship (Jul 20, 2022)

feralimal said:


> I get that, you're pattern matching.  I think there's a value to that.
> 
> I probably take an even more hard line that you, without personal verification all the rest is in an assumption.  Historical accounts could be faked, people can be tricked en masse (as we have seen these past 2 years), people will create volumes of work on things they have no personal knowledge of, etc.  To me, 'information' is an industry and means of control; it has only a incidental association with truth.
> 
> ...


Outside of ones own experience one has to subscribe to a trustworthy source, once one begins to question the validity of such materials our world becomes much smaller.

This is one of the major faults with all written historical artefacts, they are based in the realm of trust, this leaves us in a very vulnerable position that is exacerbated through training(schooling etc) that trains us to accept an authority outside of our own experience and to separate the mind from trusting our own intuition that is more often than not screaming "no that can't be right".

This is much like the trapping of souls talked about in this thread because most base the actions of the now on a fear of the future based upon the assumptions of how the past has played out, this in my view serves as the greatest trick as it distracts us from what is right here right now.

So experience should be at the top of our list, all other things can be integrated or dismissed based on if it can be verified through experience. 

I don't really now what my point is here or if it is a contribution to this thread but it felt like it has a place here and now.


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## trismegistus (Jul 20, 2022)

Froglich said:


> If I were to claim, "Ravens are black," and you rejoined that they were some other color instead (let's say white), and chastised, "You've observed other ravens to confirm, ie this is personal testimony?  Or are you quoting Wikipedia as a source of truth here?"
> 
> -- You know what I'm going to do?  Ask you to show me a white raven, thereby subjecting you to your own standards of proof. What's good for the raven is good for the raptor, right?
> 
> ...



After reviewing this thread thoroughly - It does not appear as if anyone's intention is to impugn your honor.

This thread's topic is taking the theories expounded on by this film and filling in the gaps with the history of theoretical moon constructs.  Saying that "all moons in the solar system are tidal locked" and asking to give examples of moons in the solar system that aren't tidal locked isn't really on-topic to this discussion.  If anything it guarantees that this thread will spin out of control addressing strawman topics not related to the thread.  There are plenty of moon-related anomalies that don't make a whole lot of sense even when seen through the "mainstream" lens - tidal lock included.  For example - even if what you say is true (that other solar systems exist, with other planets, with moons that are tidal locked) - it doesn't thoroughly explain _why_ all of these objects are tidal locked.  Even among the mainstream opinions that I was able to find there is still debate.

Moons with synchronous rotation in our solar system



> Some moons are tidally locked, others are not. There are several factors that lead to or militate against tidal locking:
> 
> 
> The distance at the planet about which the moon orbits. The time needed to tidally lock a moon is proportional to the distance at which the moon orbits the planet, raised to the sixth power. Close-in moons tend to be tidally locked while more remote moons tend not to be.
> ...



So there is far more to this topic than just "every moon in every solar system is tidal locked" just from a cursory search.  But to make my earlier point clear - this still has nothing to with the topic at hand which is specifically related to the big white ball that comes out at night on Earth.

On another moderation note - we can respectfully disagree about what the moon actually is, and I don't think it is completely offtopic to criticize alternative theories about the moon in this thread.  Any comments that attempt to troll, bait, or otherwise spin the conversation offtopic will be removed.


EDIT:

To make a relevant contribution to this thread-  I strongly recommend anyone interested in alternative moon theories check out this book

Who Built the Moon?

I think it is one of the best compilations of moon anomalies one can find out there.  I can't find a free online version, so you will likely just have to pick up a copy.


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## Froglich (Jul 20, 2022)

trismegistus said:


> Moons with synchronous rotation in our solar system
> _"...Some moons are tidally locked, others are not...."_


Aside from Hyperion (that author's headless-clown corner-case), all satellites in "regular" orbits (roughly circular, as opposed to markedly elliptical) seen so far are tidally-locked. This is to be expected, as any rotating body under the gravitational influence of another will rotate slower and slower due to tidal-braking, with locked being the end-state. (Hyperion currently being in 3:4 orbital resonance with unusually closely adjacent-orbit Titan suggests that Hyperion's freewheeling days are already numbered...although I would speculate that it's more likely to wander too close to Titan and either be punted out of the Saturn system entirely, or sent into another collision trajectory.)

To sum up, the original statement that drew my attention, _"...The moon always shows us the same side, suggesting it's actually artificial....." _cannot stand for that reason since "showing the same side" is the norm as established by 56 out of 57 "regular moon" cases. --If the moon really were artificial, criteria "suggesting" it should be abnormalities, not normalities.


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## trismegistus (Jul 20, 2022)

Froglich said:


> If the moon really were artificial, criteria "suggesting" it should be abnormalities, not normalities.



That is fair enough.  In that case let me list out some true abnormalities that I don't think have been discussed in this thread yet:


The moon's center of gravity isn't where it should be, instead it is off-center from its expected gravitational center.  Even mainstream sources can only speculate as to why this is the case, where anomalies are documented but paid little lip service as to how this could happen.  
The moon has uneven mass distribution, heavier on the near side.  Again - mainstream arguments say this is due to the effect of tidal lock, but it is a theory just as much as anything else.  
While the circumference and width of impact craters on the moon wildly vary in size, their depth does not.  No crater exceeds approximately 3400 meters in depth before it is "stopped" by something.  The mainstream explanation of this is essentially "gravity"
The moon is lacking in density - it should be heavier than it actually is.
The moon makes its own water

Some further, though perhaps looser associations:



> The Priestesses of historical descendants of the *ancient Bee Goddess* -- Demeter, Rhea, *Cyble* -- were called Melissae, the ancient Latin word for bees. The Bible mentions a ruler and prophetess of ancient Israel called Deborah, the "Queen Bee", her Priestesses were known as Deborahs as well. Some say that the Priestesses of the Moon Goddess were called bees because *'it was believed that all honey came from the Moon, the hive whose bees were the stars.*


Source: Bee Goddess

More on Cybele found on this site:
SH Archive - Diana of Ephesus, or Artemis to the ancient Greeks
SH Archive - Ancient Genetics Factory: The Temple of Artemis
 
Hyperion has been shown to posses "Honeycomb"-like qualities





Throughout ancient history we find repeated use of the beehive motif as representing the cycle of life, the building of a strong structure, and unity.  The moon is just as popular a motif in ancient times, both have been venerated by many cultures in the past.  Now to take things squarely into the speculative:

If you were part of a highly advanced race of beings who existed on Earth and had knowledge of a cyclical cataclysm - what would you do? How do you ensure that civilization would continue afterwards?  You couldn't build a shelter on Earth - that would be counterproductive.  You would want a structure that is near earth, but not too far away to make travel difficult.  You would need it to be tidally locked, to ensure that it existed in harmony with earth's rotation.  You would need it be extremely strong, also.  Well it just so happens that a _honeycomb structure _is objectively the strongest possible design for protecting against anything, including impacts.  With a strong layer of protection, you can build your infrastructure underneath in order to protect whoever needs it - hence the uneven distribution of mass, and relatively low density due to the honeycomb structure.  You would need it to generate its own water, in order to survive and prosper while waiting out the cataclysm.  









Examine the symbol of the crescent moon as portrayed in ancient times.  Apply the esoteric knowledge of the moon as the "rebirth" of our civilization after a cataclysm.  Is this a moon with a star in it?  Or is this actually representing a structure literally inside the moon?  It is an interesting thought to entertain, at the very least.


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## feralimal (Jul 20, 2022)

Froglich said:


> Nevertheless, presumably you have a _some basis_ for objecting over what most would consider innocuous conjecture. (We're talkin' about a big, gray, inanimate rock here; it's not as if some cabal spokescritter were bloviating the latest excuses for streamlined looting on TV and set off our Spidey-senses fine-tuned for discerning high-grade bullshit.)


Firstly, I don't consider it innocent conjecture.  Framing the world and our position in it is a potentially key control mechanism.  It supports the idea that our situation is just like one of so many billions of other planets, in so many billions of other galaxies.  Ie it's just a random and meaningless occurrence - which is a disempowering thought for the individual to believe - we can never understand our purpose here as there is none.  An alternative explanation could be that we are at the center of an intentional creation, with a purpose and aim - which may make the individual feel as if there is a value to their actions, that they need to take care.  The point I am making is that if we cannot even conceive of certain empowering ideas, that our 'scientific' outlook means we instantly dismiss them, then we are waylaid from even seeking what might be our higher purpose.  I'm not saying that we do have a higher purpose - I don't know - but if you train people not to even ask the right questions, that is powerful.

(As an aside, the idea of science being somehow better than religion is quite funny to me, especially when the scientific method is ditched, with no personal verification of evidence, except that of proven liars, is provided.  Parroting unverified stories and calling them 'knowledge', whilst sneering at others that don't accept the consensus view is the worst of religious dogma - hybris!  These sort of stories (space, viruses/vaccines, evolution, big bang, etc) are the foundational mythology of science though.)

Also, do you realise that there are alternative ways to describe the solar system observations btw?  Take a look at: Tychos.space
I understand that this explanation addresses problems relating to the Copernican model.  I don't think it addresses tidal locking, but there's enough there to make me think that the official understanding fails to explain things satisfactorily even within its own terms - the explanations of the observations are not the simplest.

Further to this, you assume the moon is a rock.  Why?  Perhaps you believe this because astronauts landed there?  I don't - to me all that is just a story provided by proven liars. All I can say is that there is a light and we call it the moon.  Some people believe it is a rock.  I guess if they saw a picture of a rock they would say that was a rock too...

If we dismiss the stories, and try to go from personal experience, I find many issues with the moon and the explanations we are provided.  Tidally locked is one bizarre observation.  That it is perceived to be the same size as the sun is another.  That an eclipse's shadow is _smaller_ not _bigger_ than the purported size of the moon is another - the shadow can surely only be bigger.  Apparently only the sea has tides but not lakes (tides are driven by the moon) ie a smaller body of water is _harder_ to move (does salt have something to do with it?)  The moon looks see through sometimes.  It is lit as brightly at the edges as at the center (unlike a billiard ball which is brighter in the center where more light is reflected directly to us, than at the edges) - ie reflects light like a plate not a sphere.  The craters are all circular, no glancing hits - just 90° impacts apparently.... and the meteorites that caused them must have passed right through the earth to cause them.  Etc.

Anyway, I see lots of problems with the provided story: I have no idea whether all other 'moons' are also 'tidally locked' - it just sounds like an additional supportive story to me, the provided moon story does not correlate strongly with my experience, with no way for me to prove or disprove the claims of a round rock, with value for those running the story in misleading us as they misdirect our belief increasing our dependence on their unverifiable expertise/lies.

Finally, I'll post this very interesting post I read recently, that provides an alternative explanation of satellites and the iss:
Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$ - Page 105 - Cluesforum—Exposing Mass Deception

I don't believe what I am told.


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## Magnetic (Jul 21, 2022)

I have to say that 99.9% of the commentary here does not refer to the movie "Moon Fall" at all.  So this is all misdirection because it does not address the film.  We have categories of subject manner to place certain subjects into boxes of meaning that can be interpreted but since there are no comments on the film itself then all comments here are off topic and should be in another catagory like moon lore, Steiner, Blavatsky, etc.  Please move  this  thread to occult moon musings or whatever you like but these comments did not reference the film so they don't belong here.  This film's monster moon protagonist is graphene oxide and is alerted to the spaceship because  his CELL PHONE was on.


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## dreamtime (Jul 21, 2022)

Magnetic said:


> I have to say that 99.9% of the commentary here does not refer to the movie "Moon Fall" at all.  So this is all misdirection because it does not address the film.  We have categories of subject manner to place certain subjects into boxes of meaning that can be interpreted but since there are no comments on the film itself then all comments here are off topic and should be in another catagory like moon lore, Steiner, Blavatsky, etc.  Please move  this  thread to occult moon musings or whatever you like but these comments did not reference the film so they don't belong here.  This film's monster moon protagonist is graphene oxide and is alerted to the spaceship because  his CELL PHONE was on.



True. Renamed thread title, and moved to an appropriate subforum.


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## Quiahuitl (Jul 21, 2022)

Froglich said:


> Through the eyepiece of a mid-grade telescope, the lunar surface is in rather crisp 4k quality (aside from atmospheric shimmer)


Maybe you can help me with something I've been studying for 15 years now. 

The Sun and Moon are both high in the sky at an elevation of approximately 30 degrees.  The Moon is exactly at its waxing half phase, so the Sun is to the right of it and they are separated by an azimuthal separation of 90 degrees.

The sky appears to rotate clockwise to an observer in the Northern Hemisphere (I'm in England), so there is a moment when both Sun and Moon appear to be at exactly the same elevation.

At this moment, what is the orientation of the light/dark terminator line across the Moon?

EDIT I think the answer is 'Vertical.'


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## intothevoid (Jul 22, 2022)

I had a dream about 10 years ago; I was standing in the central square of my town in England looking up at the night sky and many pieces of the moon were falling down (on fire) through the sky above. That was all I saw but somehow I knew it was pieces of the moon.

I did some research a few years ago and it turns out the US govt supposedly had a secret plan to nuke the moon (and destroy it). I have a US tv news clip discussing this saved. Can't find it on YT now.

There's also USAF project A119 - set off nuke on moon for research and as a show of force.. Project A119 - Wikipedia

I'm not entirely convinced the moon is solid but it looks like a ball. It's odd there don't seem to be many meteor impacts visible form earth considering there's no atmosphere. Wouldn't you see big dust clouds even from relatively small objects impacting the surface?


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## Safranek (Jul 31, 2022)

dreamtime said:


> Someone posted two interesting links in the german forum on the corresponding thread.
> 
> The first is a remote viewing session, that was since deleted from the original channel (supposedely because the remote viewers were too shocked by their own discoveries). The remote viewers discover a soul-control system that steals our energy and recycles our souls:


Since the video was deleted due to a copyright strike, here is a copy:

Upload files for free - Moksha Remotely Viewed by Four Viewers in Blind Study.mp4 - ufile.io


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## AthroposRex (Aug 28, 2022)

Magnetic said:


> I have to say that 99.9% of the commentary here does not refer to the movie "Moon Fall" at all.  So this is all misdirection because it does not address the film.  We have categories of subject manner to place certain subjects into boxes of meaning that can be interpreted but since there are no comments on the film itself then all comments here are off topic and should be in another catagory like moon lore, Steiner, Blavatsky, etc.  Please move  this  thread to occult moon musings or whatever you like but these comments did not reference the film so they don't belong here.  This film's monster moon protagonist is graphene oxide and is alerted to the spaceship because  his CELL PHONE was on.


Dang nice catch, I watched this disaster of a movie and watched that part, but was preoccupied with tearing the scene apart because the graphene oxide could sense the phone but apparently missed the electric flashlight they were shining at it.


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## BusyBaci (Aug 28, 2022)

intothevoid said:


> I had a dream about 10 years ago; I was standing in the central square of my town in England looking up at the night sky and many pieces of the moon were falling down (on fire) through the sky above. That was all I saw but somehow I knew it was pieces of the moon.


I just had an apocalyptic dream last night. The whole world turned up side down and the sky literally felled down during it. People I was talking to in my dream were not paying attention of what I was saying, just as usual, but when the frigging cattle started to run away as mad, people on my dream started asking me more.
I told them the earth was about to be chopped into pieces and many of those were about to go vertical with the buildings attached to them. They were like: "Oh my god, we're going to die!" I told them to shut up because everyone was going to die in a very angry manner.

And then I just woke up in a shiny Sunday morning, relieving me from my dream.


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## TurpinHero (Oct 14, 2022)

intothevoid said:


> I had a dream about 10 years ago; I was standing in the central square of my town in England looking up at the night sky and many pieces of the moon were falling down (on fire) through the sky above. That was all I saw but somehow I knew it was pieces of the moon.
> 
> I did some research a few years ago and it turns out the US govt supposedly had a secret plan to nuke the moon (and destroy it). I have a US tv news clip discussing this saved. Can't find it on YT now.
> 
> ...


One summer evening in 1963, at my after school Astronomy Club meeting, (which was about the moon as we observed it,) I asked the teacher who ran the club... 'With the whole surface of the moon covered in craters, caused, as you have said, by asteroid/debris impact, why haven't there been any reports/photos of ongoing impacts throughout recent history, especially now, when we have many private telescopes, like our own club's, watching the moon? 
And some of those craters are hundreds of miles across that must have been caused by impacts of massive pieces of debris, didn't such impacts affect the moons trajectory (my word for it then)? 
Answer given to first question - 'because such impacts happened millions of years ago (missing the point completely).' and to question two
 ' the effects of those impacts have given us the moon and its orbit as it now is.' Case for him, closed, for me, left me still asking the same question.
The teacher was no lightweight, he once brought his old friend from University, Patrick Moore (who was staying with him at the time),  in to talk to us. Mostly about his tv programme The Sky At Night.
Interesting thread, thank you for it.


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## inthefade (Oct 14, 2022)

I don't buy that the moon even physically exists.


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## JimDuyer (Oct 26, 2022)

I agree with the poster above who said that Steiner and Blavatsky are probably controlled opposition or shills for the PTB.
I like Dark Journalist.  But he does seem to place a lot of faith in a few very strange pushers of information.  I will still watch him.

As to the Moon, there were quite a few early authors who spoke of the time before there was a Moon in our sky:

A period in time in which the Earth was Moonless is probably one of the most remote recollections of mankind.  But those days are remembered, they were indeed recorded, and by some of the same scholars that we appreciate today for their contributions to our historical record.


Democritus and Anaxagoras taught that there was a time when the Earth was without the Moon.


Democritus, born about 460 BC, was one of the two founders of ancient atomist theory. He elaborated a system originated by his teacher Leucippus into a materialist account of the natural world. The atomists held that there are smallest indivisible bodies from which everything else is composed, and that these move about in an infinite void.  This sounds much like an early version of our understanding of atoms.


Democritus’ theory of perception depends on the claim that eidôla or images, thin layers of atoms, are constantly sloughed off from the surfaces of macroscopic bodies and carried through the air.  These films of atoms shrink and expand; only those that shrink sufficiently can enter the eye. It is the impact of these on our sense organs that enables us to perceive. Visible properties of macroscopic objects, like their size and shape, are conveyed to us by these films, which tend to be distorted as they pass through greater distances in the air, since they are subject to more collisions with air atoms. (DK 68A135; Baldes 1975).   Which sounds suspiciously like a very early version of the “holographic Universe” theory.


Anaxagoras, born about 500 BC, was a Pre-Socratic Greek philosopher. Born in Clazomenae at a time when Asia Minor was under the control of the Persian Empire, Anaxagoras came to Athens.


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## rickmarty (Nov 6, 2022)

The 3D Matrix didn’t only consist of the Moon - which was just a relay station to impose an oppressive EM field on Earth - but was basically run from a regressive GF base around Saturn.

The technologies were manyfold and vast (e.g. having created the Saturn unnatural rings as antennas to emit powerful waves to the moon for control and powering), yet all of them based on relative low-tech since they used EM waves only - which as we know are unhealthy/destructive.

As for the moon itself, the Taygetans explained that it was using 12000 years old low-tech based on nuclear reactors and digital computers, but by now the Andromedans (who built the former Earth 3D Matrix) have more advanced technology. Though not from own creativity, which they as are only partially capable of, but from trading with their regressive Tall Gray masters.


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## Memphis (Nov 6, 2022)

Catalyst said:


> From the very childhood I knew that souls go to our Moon, which acts as a main repository and tool for reincarnation mechanism, set up by our creators. I've been trying to spread this idea among many acquaintances and even random people but almost none of them were ready to accept this idea.
> 
> It is curious to point out the fact that among those few people who speak out about the true nature of our Moon, most tend to present it in either neutral or negative way. Like as if we were slaves to its influence. I personally believe that it is the only way to get things done. I mean, how else could Gods bring up new civilizations? Imagine yourselves in their position - you create humans and give them some knowledge and power. How can you make sure that they grow into good beings? What if they turn to the "dark side"? It's not the first time I'm expressing this idea, but I am almost absolutely sure that Earth acts as a training camp for young souls, that go through this "life/training' to become better and go to higher worlds (other planets with more advanced life conditions). If a soul can't develop or degrades, it stays for another life-cycle, or maybe gets transformed/recycled into a different form or energy.


I have the same understanding of this world, that souls get trapped into a mechanism after death, like a false light. I know that this is true because I remember, I have memories about that, and remember other lives here on earth. Is like a never ending recycling of the same souls. Probably earth is some sort of prison, but I am not sure. And probably moon is the central body of the mechanism.
Also think earth is a training camp for souls, and only the bravest ones came here and decided to get into this trap. Because, actually, is difficult to escape this realm. The moon plays a central role in all this reality.


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## blindvictory (Dec 6, 2022)

I wonder if you have read the Chani project?  some interesting bits on the moon there...  Another fascinating book I just stumbled onto in the internet archive is named "Text" named so because this is what the elite call their information while calling what the rest of us use as X-Texts holding only bits of truth...  I'm on information overload, lol would love your thoughts.  it shares that when they were using remote viewers is was discovered tis done through the spirit body. that part makes sense, they then put one into a faraday cage and the man was not able to leave the cage to view as his spirit body was trapped.  armed with this the elite were able to put a man in cage near his death alongside a newly conceived babe and mother.  controlled reincarnation.  TEXT : Walter C Vetsch : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive


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## Quiahuitl (Dec 6, 2022)

blindvictory said:


> I'm on information overload, lol would love your thoughts.



That's a very interesting book you've shared.  I've seen similar info before, like the idea that science is being deliberately held back and so on.  What has really blown my mind since coming across Martin Liedtke and subsequently this forum is the fact that advanced technology was widely used in our recent past.  For example there are 'Ancient' structures made from concrete with metal reinforcement see here Collecting Historical clues for calendar manipulation

Possession is a big issue and most people don't realise a lot of what they think is being planted there by astral entities. Anyways, this is a bit off-topic.

I'm fascinated by the number of posts on this thread talking about how the Moon is where dead souls go.  This is exactly what my Mexican Toltec teachers have been telling me for years.  The Moon is the embodiment (i.e the physical body) of the land of the dead.  You come from there before you were born and go back to there after you die.  It's also where you go when you dream.  The Nahuatl word for the Moon is 'Metztli' which also means dream within a dream.

The Sun meanwhile, is the combined energy of all the souls who have successfully escaped from the cycle of reincarnation.  They have learnt how to resonate together so they feed each other energy instead of stealing each others energy.


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## blindvictory (Dec 6, 2022)

Quiahuitl said:


> That's a very interesting book you've shared.  I've seen similar info before, like the idea that science is being deliberately held back and so on.  What has really blown my mind since coming across Martin Liedtke and subsequently this forum is the fact that advanced technology was widely used in our recent past.  For example there are 'Ancient' structures made from concrete with metal reinforcement see here Collecting Historical clues for calendar manipulation
> 
> Possession is a big issue and most people don't realise a lot of what they think is being planted there by astral entities. Anyways, this is a bit off-topic.
> 
> I'm fascinated by the number of posts on this thread talking about how the Moon is where dead souls go.  This is exactly what my Mexican Toltec teachers have been telling me for years.  The Moon is the embodiment (i.e the physical body) of the land of the dead.  You come from there before you were born and go back to there after you die.  The Sun meanwhile, is the combined energy of all the souls who have successfully escaped from the cycle of reincarnation.  They have learnt how to resonate together so they feed each other energy instead of stealing each others energy.


flat earth British? I really appreciate how he includes links to source material... not sold on the earth being flat, however, I still look at all info with an open mind. the only thing we can be 100% sure if is that we have been lied too.  i think the lie is due to space time, ive found a few items in different direction that all show that zero or micro gravity is outside our spacetime. quantum communication would be required and that crap bends my noodle.  As far as the moon goes... 20 years ago I had the most frightening nightmare I've ever had. I think I was meant to remember it.  its simple really, i was standing in front of a bright tunneled light surrounded by darkness and a voice told me to go into the light. Well, everything in me screamed no not to. So, i refused the voice snarled and the white light fragmented and shifted into jagged white demons surrounded and were dancing jumping and clawing at me.  I woke up in my bed, shuddered a sigh but as soon as i walked across the room and was spoken to, I realized I was still asleep and couldn't wake up. I folded in on myself screaming at myself to wake up.... phone rang finally and woke me up... that's the only time that has ever happened. I have weird friggin dreams, some scarier in content but that one messed me up.    they say that there was a time before the moon, high strangeness it and that moon of Saturn that looks far too much like the death star, lol


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## mifletzet (Dec 12, 2022)

King Solomon reigned for 40 years c850 BCE.

Jewish tradition has it that for 10 out of those 40 years the Moon was phaseless i.e. there was a full Moon for 10 years as a sign of Divine favour.


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## AntiSoof (Dec 17, 2022)

The moon can indeed represent the physical. It is our mother in body, as the sun is the father of the spiritual. So the moon is our ego, which stands in the way of us reaching the father, the spirit. Our passion (moon), ignorance and love of the moon holds us back. Osho also pointed to the moon. I only understand now, reading this from Gurdjieff. What is also said is that when the moon is in the sign of the sun during our birth, we can become healthy again. We should then do nothing but meditate and otherwise take it easy, so that our endocrine system can be restored and our oil can flow to our sanctity in our brain. The wedding is then when the oil in us reaches the highest in the head at the moment when the moon is in our zodiac sign. That's why people kept track of the stars? I'm not very sure, but it may be that ancient writings point to this: our enlightenment is when our spirit rises above matter. That may be a physical process.


trismegistus said:


> That is fair enough.  In that case let me list out some true abnormalities that I don't think have been discussed in this thread yet:
> 
> 
> The moon's center of gravity isn't where it should be, instead it is off-center from its expected gravitational center.  Even mainstream sources can only speculate as to why this is the case, where anomalies are documented but paid little lip service as to how this could happen.
> ...


"Is this a moon with a star in it?"
I think that's the sun above the moon. It seems to be imagined that if the sun and the moon are in the same position, then there is a special time. It may mean that if the moon is in the sign of how the sun was during our birth (or conception?) there is a special time, so different for every person.


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