# Macedonians were NEVER Greeks!



## PantaOz (Sep 13, 2022)

This is a sensitive topic... so I would like to start with one suggestion... if you want to discuss and add some information, please, try to quote at least the author of the sources you were using! Stay calm and try to understand that every side of the coin has two different sides that look different... so sometimes we could talk bout the same thing from a different point of view.



> In the course of the second pre-Christian millennium, the ancient Greeks descended in several migratory waves from the interior of the Balkans to Greece. Some passed across the plain of Thessaly on their way south, while others went south through Epirus. More recent scholars point to Asia Minor as the original Greek homeland. There is no evidence that the ancient Greeks ever settled prehistoric Macedonia. Archeological evidence shows that ancient Macedonia lay beyond the cultural and ethnic borders of the Bronze Age Mycenaean Greek Civilization, which ends at the border of northern Thessaly (1400 - 1100 BC). The prehistoric Macedonians show a remarkable continuation of existing material culture.​





> Ancient Macedonia was home to many tribes. Some theories claim that the ancient Macedonian tribes emerged from the Brygians or Phrygians. Some of the Brygians left Macedonia and migrated to Asia Minor where they changed their name to Phrygians and established a powerful Phrygian kingdom (Herodotus). When the Macedonian army under Alexander the Great will enter Phrygia centuries later, Philotas spoke of the connections between the Phrygians and the Macedonians, by calling the Macedonians "Phrygians" (Curtius).​





> Greek migrants settled few coastal areas of Macedonia, Thrace, and Illyria after they exhausted the possibilities of settlement in Asia Minor, area of today's Italy, France, Spain and Scythia (let us say today's Ukraine and Russia). However, they did not consider Macedonia especially attractive for permanent  settlement. Neither did the Macedonians welcome them as open-heartedly as did the Italians and Scythians. By the middle of the fourth century BC, the Greek settlers were expelled from Macedonia and their cities, including Aristotle's native Stragira... this city was actually razed to the ground by the  Macedonian king Philip II (360-336) so we can say that Aristotle died in exile!​


Ancient Macedonia​


> The ancient Macedonians regarded the Greeks as potentially dangerous neighbors, never as kinsmen. The Greeks stereotyped the Macedonians as "barbarians" and treated them in the same manner in which they treated all non-Greeks. *Herodotus, relates how the Macedonian king Alexander I (498-454 BC), a Philhellene (that is "a friend of the Greeks" and logically a non-Greek), wanted to take a part in the Olympic games. The Greek athletes protested, saying they would not run with a barbarian. Historian Thucydidis also calls the Macedonians barbarians, and so did Thracymachus who called Archelaus a barbarian who enslaved Greeks.* *Demosthenes*, the great Athenian statesman and orator, spoke of Philip II as:​_*"... not only no Greek, nor related to the Greeks, but not even a barbarian from any place that can be named with honors, but a pestilent knave from Macedonia, whence it was never yet possible to buy a decent slave."*_ [*Third Philippic, 31*]​



Arrian
​


​​


> *The battle of Chaeronea (August 338 BC)* was the_* final major battle in the career of Philip II of Macedon*_, and saw him defeat a Greek alliance led by Thebes and Athens, in the process establishing his dominance over the states of central and southern Greece. *He appointed himself "Commander of the Greeks"*. This battle had established Macedonian hegemony over Greece and this date is commonly taken as the end of Greek history and the beginning of the Macedonian era. *Greece did not regain its independence until 1827 AD. *





> In 335 BC, Philip's son Alexander campaigned toward the Danube, to secure Macedonia's northern frontier. On rumors of his death, a revolt broke out in Greece with the support of leading Athenians. Alexander marched south covering 240 miles in two weeks. When the revolt continued he sacked Thebes, killing 6,000 people and enslaving the survivors. Only the temples and the house of the poet Pindar were spared.





> *The Macedonians spoke their own native language which was unrecognizable by the Greeks. *The very label barbarian literally means a person who does not speak Greek. Though Alexander spoke also Greek, loved Homer, and respected his tutor Aristotle, there is much evidence that he hated the Greeks of his day, just like his father Philip II. *Philip had razed to the ground the Greek cities on Macedonian territory (including all 32 Greek cities in Chalcidice) and enslaved their inhabitants.* Alexander the Great thoroughly destroyed Thebes. His Asian empire has not once been described as "Greek", but is correctly called Macedonian for he won it with an army of 35,000 Macedonians and only 7,600 Greeks, and similar numbers of Thracians and Illyrians who were all forced to fight with their Macedonian overlords. The overwhelming number of Greeks however,  50,000 in total (Curtius), had however, distinguished themselves  on the side of the Persians and fought fiercely till the end against the Macedonians. For instance, at the battle of Granicus there were 20,000 Greeks, out of which the Macedonians killed 18,000 and the       2,000 survivors were sent in chains to Macedonia (Arrian, Curtius).  Arrian specifically speaks of the* "old racial rivalry" between Macedonians and Greeks* that characterized this battle. *At the battle of Issus, there were 30,000 Greeks on  the side of the Persians to fight Alexander, and their survivors also fought at Gaugamela against the Macedonians. *The Battle of Issus happened in 333 B.C and it was Alexander the Great’s second battle against the Persian army and his first direct engagement against King Darius III, King of Persia. Alexander defeated the Persian Army thereby causing Darius III to flee the battlefield.





​


> *The question of the use of the ancient Macedonian language was raised by Alexander himself during the trial of Philotas, one of his generals  accused of treason. This is what Alexander has said to Philotas:   *​
> _*"The Macedonians are about to pass judgement upon you; I wish to know weather you will use their native tongue in addressing them." *_
> 
> *Philotas replied:*
> ...





> The trial of Philotas took place in Asia before a multi-ethnic public, which has understood Greek as it was then a common language, like English today. But Alexander spoke Macedonian with his Macedonians (the language he accuses Philotas of loathing) and used Greek in addressing the west Asians. Like Carthagenian, Illyrian, and Thracian, ancient Macedonian was not recorded in writing. However, on the bases of about a hundred glosses, Macedonian words noted and explained by Greek writers, some place names from Macedonia, and a few names of individuals, most scholars believe that ancient Macedonian was a separate Indo-European language. Evidence from phonology indicates that the ancient Macedonian language was distinct from ancient Greek.
> 
> Both Macedonia and Greece were annexed by the Romans after the battle of Pydna in 168 BC. It is significant that the Greeks again fought against the Macedonians during the Macedonian Wars, on the side of the Romans. The Macedonians were asked to evacuate from the *whole of Greece* and withdrew to Macedonia by the Romans, and the Greek fought against the Macedonian army and its king Philip V until their final defeat (Polybius, Livy). After the end of the Macedonian kingdom, Latin was the official language in Roman Macedonia from 168 BC until the demise of Roman rule at the end of the sixth century AD.​



By the way, one of the documents from this era does not match the official historical narrative! I used this document (currently at the Vatican Archives) in my book "The Lost Tribes of Israel" about 15 years ago. The document was reprinted in the writings of Mauro Orbin (Kingdom of the Slavs), Marcin Byelski, Bartosh Paprotski, "Czech Chronicles" of Vaclav Haek from 1541...

Alexander of Macedonia's Charter is an expression of gratitude of Alexander of Macedonia to his people who participated in the fighting. But Orbini also cited some other authors who show the difference of the Macedonian language in relation to the Greek. And right here, he expresses his opinion that Macedonians and Greeks were never close, nor were same people, but were two different nations united to conquer the world with the great warlord.


----------



## JimDuyer (Oct 25, 2022)

According to the historical records that I have examined, what you have said above is 100% truth.  It's hard to imagine how a King of Macedonia can conquer a King of Greece if they were in fact the same people.  That's history 101.


----------



## Daniel (Oct 27, 2022)

JimDuyer said:


> According to the historical records that I have examined, what you have said above is 100% truth.  It's hard to imagine how a King of Macedonia can conquer a King of Greece if they were in fact the same people.  That's history 101.


The same way the King of Prussia conquered other German Kings in the 19th century.
Nation states, as we understand them today, are a modern concept.


----------



## JimDuyer (Oct 27, 2022)

Daniel said:


> The same way the King of Prussia conquered other German Kings in the 19th century.
> Nation states, as we understand them today, are a modern concept.


You are absolutely correct.  And just like the Southern States declared war on the Northern States during our War of Northern Aggression.  But in that case both were part of the USA.  

In this case, the Macedonians are, historically speaking, very clearly a separate people from the Greeks of that time.  Their origins, culture, language differences; all point to a closer alignment to those North
of them rather than those South of them (Greeks).  Was there intermarriage at some point?  Surely. Just as there was worldwide - it's the way wars were avoided back then.  And even today we have the Clintons and others marrying into the George Soros family, in order to further push their agendas.
And we have many of our Congress marrying Chinese ladies for similar reasons.


----------

