# WHY IS THERE EVIL?  Who creates the evil in the world?



## JimDuyer (Oct 15, 2020)

Well, we have a good source, a valid claim, and ownership was taken, for the creation of evil.
The question we might pose is, since this is true, because it is in the OT, why are we punished
for the evil that another created? 

Isaiah 45:7
King James Bible
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

American Standard Version
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.

In the Mesoretic (Hebrew) text, we see:

to form, fashion, frame
light, light of day, daylight
to create, shape, form, fashion
darkness, obscurity
to do, fashion, accomplish, make, produce
peace,  welfare, health, prosperity
to create, shape, form, fashion
evil, bad, unpleasant, evil (giving pain, unhappiness, misery)
I
Yahweh
to do, fashion, accomplish, make
all, the whole of, any, each, every, anything
these

OR:   I fashion the light of day, create the obscurity of darkness,
I make peace and welfare and I create evil.
I, Yahweh, do all of these things.

So there's not too much wiggle room on the statement.  It seems clear.  But I really
don't recall ever learning this in Sunday School, or teaching it there for that matter.

We all, along with Yahweh, create the evil, and make the peace in our world.  The choice is ours.


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## Judy.Rugburn (Oct 15, 2020)

1 multiplied by itself always remains 1

1 is divine perfection, remaining itself during division & multiplication by itself

When 1 reflects itself, by addition of itself, the other, 2 comes into being

Thus, 1 the divine perfection that is all, cannot see itself without its mirror, which is 2

1 must experience 2 in order to become conscious of itself & its separateness 

This mirroring evokes confrontation & tension

2 is 1 looking in the mirror of its own reflection experiencing itself as “other”

This opposition & creates polarity between them

i.e. good/evil - happy/sad



Yin unites & Yang separates, but each energy contains part of the other.

Pure Good & Pure Evil do not exist except in the minds of those who are unable to recognize themselves in others. We all have a tendency to project that which we do not like about ourselves onto other people, we do it all the time — it’s the ego’s greatest defense mechanism.

Evil arises when we see ourselves as right & others as wrong. We project our hatred & fears onto others, believing they are separate from us, that “good” & “evil” are separate consciousnesses.

But the fact remains that 1 cannot not be conscious of itself without 2, good cannot exist without evil, right cannot exist without wrong.

3 is where the magic happens


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## JimDuyer (Oct 15, 2020)

Judy.Rugburn said:


> 1 multiplied by itself always remains 1
> 
> 1 is divine perfection, remaining itself during division & multiplication by itself
> 
> ...


Would you agree that it is impossible to truly hate someone that you understand?


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## Judy.Rugburn (Oct 16, 2020)

Jim Duyer said:


> Judy.Rugburn said:
> 
> 
> > 1 multiplied by itself always remains 1
> ...


Yes.


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## davtash (Oct 16, 2020)

it is interesting to note what is evil, for example many of the for me more extreme ideologies of the new wokes?


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## Magnus (Oct 16, 2020)

The Gnostic response is that the god of the OT is the Devil.

And the Father in Heaven, the One True God, the Father whom Jesus Christ prays to, He is the God of Truth and Goodness


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## veeall (Oct 16, 2020)

Also there's place to ask, what or who defines the good or ethical or moral.

I'm personally convinced that at fundamental level the ethics and morality - justice are the true nature of the character of the God the Creator. The same is also encoded into any being, so that everybody at least what concerns ones own selves always demands justice and just behavior from others.

Also there's no love without justice. And justice demands the punishment of the wicked. That's just physics of morality.
So evil is to act adversary to Gods character.


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## codis (Oct 16, 2020)

Magnus said:


> The Gnostic response is that the god of the OT is the Devil.


Not only Gnostics.
Some protestant theologians of the 19th and 20th century hypothesized that the OT god is actually Baal Moloch.
Just can't remember names and references, getting old, probably ...

BTW, where is Satan in Genesis, *before* the creation of the world ?
I cannot remember any such biblical reference.
So, I for myself assume he is an "alternate personality" of god, the test criterion on the human's way.


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## Jd755 (Oct 16, 2020)

This is likely how the word evil was given to humanity.
Two inter-dimensional beings of the crystal skull variety were wandering the time portals when they found a scrabble game. Being a bit clever they instinctively knew how to play scrabble so they used it to invent words. Live Evil and Vile popped out in no time. 
A third crystal skull being who was watching them put the letter combinations into the inter galactic random meaning generator which assigned a random computer generated definition to the four letter words.
These words and meanings were then disseminated to the humanity beings of the third dimension by piggybacking magnetic-electronic pulses onto sunlight. 
Lo when the sun came up and the reprogramming of humanity was complete. The garden of eden was no more as vile live and evil had entered humanities world.

So sayeth a talking snake!


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## Sanctus Martinus (Oct 16, 2020)

Without evil, being _good_ wouldn't be anything special. If every day had sunny weather, it wouldn't be anything special. Living is learning, and to learn, you have to adapt. The more you adapt, the more you learn.

So it looks like to me, that _evil_ is a tool to force adaptation.

Thats just my view though. (Might be somewhat ignorant)


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## codis (Oct 16, 2020)

There is no good or evil.
All morals are relative, and a construct of society.
[\sorry, can't find the sarcasm font...]


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## Kamikaze (Oct 16, 2020)

A very thought provoking, and searching thread Jim.

My first thoughts are that you have chosen a very negative translation for that verse that uses the highly emotive word ‘evil’.  Just flicking through Bible hub with that verse shows that the 3 most popular choices are calamity, disastrous, and evil.  If you were to sensibly remove one of those words from the translations, it would surely be evil, as calamity and disastrous at least have quite a similar meaning.

Either one of those words gives your verse a totally different meaning and feel.


Another key verse would surely be :   1 John 5: 19

International Version
"We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the ‘evil’ one".

This verse is interesting and relevant in several ways.

1. It simply states that there is evil in this world we live in (we all know this obviously).
2. It points to a person who is the bringer of evil
3. It separates God from the evil one.
4. All the translations in Bible hub use the word ‘evil’ for this verse, there literally is no ambiguity.

Therefore, going back to your verse, it states that God does indeed bring calamity to people and situations.  A few examples, if you believe the basic premises in the old book.

A. Calamity was brought on Pharaoh and his people because he wouldn’t let the Israelites leave Egypt.  He had several warnings.  You could also argue that God was saving one people from their current calamity and predicament, and you might also argue for the grander purpose of eventually positioning a major religion at the crossroads between Asia, Africa and Europe thereby making it truly acceptable to all if they want to believe in it.    The other point, was that the seed was preserved, as promised.

B. The Prophet Jonah had calamity brought upon him, because he initially ran away from his assignment, to save people.

C. The Assyrian army had calamity brought upon them, because they were just about to attack the nation of Israel.  This nation was at the time the most powerful nation on earth, and at it’s peak, just like the Egyptian army.  As you no doubt know, the Assyrians were one of the most vindictive forces in world history, and a force of 185,000 would have brought untold misery and suffering to the people of Judah.  The relief carvings of the battle of Lachish now on display in the British library are certainly worth looking at which confirm the cruelty of the Assyrians at that time.

D. Of course, the reoccurring problem with the Old testament in terms of good and evil with respect to God is always the massacres carried out by the Israelites in the taking of the promised land.   However, as I stated in SH1, if you follow the ancient practice of human/child sacrifices which were carried out in those lands; then, if the Israelites had completely destroyed the Canaanite towns and cities as they were ordered to,  it is entirely possible that these sacrifices that were still carried out in modern times (see Jewish Ritual Sacrifice), through history and said to be still practiced by some of those in power today, might have been killed off for the most part there and then.   The link here being the Phoenicians, the places where they dwelled i.e  Tyre, Sidon Carthage, the people that they influenced i.e the Celts and some of the Israelites  and the ‘relics’ that have been found confirming their grisly practices.   You don’t need me to tell you about all the children that go missing around this time of year, in rituals that appear to be connected to Halloween and October 31st.  Are these events connected to ancient Canaan, and the cities and towns that were not destroyed?



kd-755 said:


> This is likely how the word evil was given to humanity.
> Two inter-dimensional beings of the crystal skull variety were wandering the time portals when they found a scrabble game. Being a bit clever they instinctively knew how to play scrabble so they used it to invent words. Live Evil and Vile popped out in no time.
> A third crystal skull being who was watching them put the letter combinations into the inter galactic random meaning generator which assigned a random computer generated definition to the four letter words.
> These words and meanings were then disseminated to the humanity beings of the third dimension by piggybacking magnetic-electronic pulses onto sunlight.
> ...



I always find it useful to tie in the following scriptures, right near the end of the bible.  i.e Revelation 12: 9  and 12: 12

New Living Translation
This great dragon—the ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, the one deceiving the whole world—was thrown down to the earth with all his angels.

English Standard Version
Therefore, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!”


The first one clarifies who was behind the snake, and the second one states that he only has a short time, and therefore is angry.  I don't know about you, but this world seems increasingly like quite an angry and evil place.   I also can't believe the amount of lies that get thrown about by those in power in order to justify their actions and objectives.  The big question for this second verse, is always 'when was he thrown down to earth', and this is much disputed.  From my perspective, the last century was when things started to get significantly worse, judging by the amount of wars, the number of genocides, famines and diseases.    This of course get into the territory of the 4 horseman of the apocalypse.


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## JimDuyer (Oct 16, 2020)

davtash said:


> it is interesting to note what is evil, for example many of the for me more extreme ideologies of the new wokes?


Yes, but were they awoken by the smell of money?  Are they anything more than mere paid players?
Just recently in Costa Rica, we now have, in a country without an army, a group of protestors that are different from any we have had in the past.  They block roads, burn cars, throw molotov cocktails at the police, and even set fire to a police car with two officers in it, who were burned badly. No damage to private businesses, but really the places they block the main roads, 27 in all, are not near anything.
The police are not allowed to fire at them, only use tear gas.  
Where did these come from?  Why?  They say they are protesting a proposed rise in taxes,
to help the country out of a near bankruptcy, but most of them have never even paid taxes in
their lives.  
We see the same thing in America.  Who would believe that we would allow anyone, of any color,
to burn down our cities?  And again, not the usual players -- most are from other states, and obviously
someone is paying for them.
The rumor going the rounds is that the current independent president, who is much like Trump in upsetting the rich fat cats in politics, is being "taught a lesson" and his party made to look bad so
the evil ones can come back into power.  Is that what is happening in America?

Let's go off the normal road for a moment.

Suppose that you were an alien force.  You land, repeatedly, and begin creating hybrids.
Then you have some of those hybrids spread virus, cause riots, and disrupt researchers
online, and then just sit back and wait for us to melt down.  Sound plausible, but scary?


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## Clown Of God (Oct 16, 2020)

Evil is born out of mans ignorance regarding his/her true divine nature and relation to divinity.
If one seeks to understand the “mysticism” of the so called “Gnostics”, one has to study their concepts in full. 
What today is known and understood as Kabbalah.Its a fools errand to try understand these truths with a wrong comprehension and it only serves to add to the confusion and ignorance.The gnostic sagas are not meant to be taken literally.


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## Judy.Rugburn (Oct 17, 2020)

On page 312 in The Great Cosmic Mother by Monica Sjöö & Barbara Moor:

“A humanity starved of energy eats its own Mother. Meanwhile, nature’s free & relatively wholesome, holistic energies of sun, wind, thermal heat, moon-tidal, human & organic compost are ignored, rejected. Not that they are non-fiesable, but that manhood in the Western world is defined as large-scale exploitation, rather than local cooperation.

The Western world, as we all know, is a total junkie — both in its compulsive addiction to consumption & its foul methods of disposing its wastes. The number one drug problem in America, surely, is the 24 hour a day addiction of the “average person” to a hundred times more artificial energy (from sugar to electricity, from mass entertainment to the bomb) than any healthy human being could ever want or need. And like any junkie threatened with the cutoff of supply, America — the Western world generally— can think & act in murderous ways.”

Please know that I do not blame *men* for the evils of our world, I believe that “time” is an infinite spiral & what goes up must come down, over & over & over ?


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## davtash (Oct 17, 2020)

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...on-teacher-macron-attack-terror-b1083211.html
who was evil the teacher or the assassin?


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## Judy.Rugburn (Oct 17, 2020)

The myth of the “feminine evil” was created by Christian doctrine; who better to blame than woman, who creates life from her own body?

Evil does not thrive without a catalyst, fear.

The Christians (Parasites) have destroyed our connection to nature, to the Earth & it’s abundance — by blaming women, we we have been denied the truth of our own power & fear the loss of our unsustainable resource.

The truth is, we waste our inner resources on mostly toxic external matters. We have a false system of values that revolve around scarcity. We are never taught about the richness & abundance that can be found within ourselves. We always have everything we need, in every moment, at all times, but we live in an external world of greed & ego. It might take generations, but we must begin to grieve the hundreds of years of ancestral trauma if we are to find out way back to the truth that lies within us.

As above, so below; as within, so without.


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## davtash (Oct 17, 2020)

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...test-trace-contract-outsourcing-b1072309.html
I put a reciprocal comment on this article pointing them to this site.


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## Jetsam (Oct 17, 2020)

I don't think all the hooplah is neccessary. It's pretty easy to decide whether something is good or bad. We don't need any external opinion. It would be nice to know where this cursed evil came from so we could close that avenue off and they would have to go around. The word is we can't have good without bad, seeing as how it's a universe of opposites and all, but I propose that's just another lie.


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## davtash (Oct 17, 2020)

Is it anything to do with Hilary trying to find Gilgamesh on a thread I started?And a further question what is the connection between heaven and hell and purgatory and the obsolete catholic limbo?


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## JimDuyer (Oct 17, 2020)

davtash said:


> https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...on-teacher-macron-attack-terror-b1083211.html
> who was evil the teacher or the assassin?


That's a very good question.  So Cain slew Abel because God created evil, and thus the teacher or bringer of evil was God, and Cain became the assassin?  Is that why God did not kill Cain but only banished him, and banished him with a protective mark so that none dare harm him or receive seven-fold punishment from God?


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## EUAFU (Oct 17, 2020)

Judy.Rugburn said:


> The myth of the “feminine evil” was created by Christian doctrine; who better to blame than woman, who creates life from her own body?
> 
> Evil does not thrive without a catalyst, fear.
> 
> ...



You are wrong for a few reasons.

The first is that it was Judaism that affirmed the woman as part of the Divine creation, until this idea came up, the pagans said that the woman was a species of animal. With Christianity both women and children were exalted. Just realize that while the "beloved" pagans sacrificed people in Judaism and in Christianity, they did not.

Another point the idea of feminine evil is a pagan idea of Gnosticism that preaches that to live in a physical body is to live in a prison and that the woman is the one who promotes this evil when conceiving a material prison, the body, for the soul.

You accuse Christianity of practices that are actually pagan.


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## JimDuyer (Oct 17, 2020)

EUAFU said:


> Judy.Rugburn said:
> 
> 
> > The myth of the “feminine evil” was created by Christian doctrine; who better to blame than woman, who creates life from her own body?
> ...


I'm sorry but I believe that you might be the one in error here.  The early Hebrews were Amorites, and they were most definitely in favor of keeping women in either second place or no place. From the earliest texts they began to degrade women. When they took over Sumeria during the Old Babylonian period, the first thing they did was change the attributes and worship of goddesses over to that of a male god.  That's unfortunate but a historical fact. Also they changed the Sumerian law codes from one of fines and punishments to one of an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. They also introduced interest on loans, which did not exist earlier. So history is against your statement above.


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## EUAFU (Oct 17, 2020)

Jim Duyer said:


> EUAFU said:
> 
> 
> > Judy.Rugburn said:
> ...



I talked about Judaism and Christianity, nothing about Amorites or Sumerians who were pagans.
And the point is simple. Pagans promoted human sacrifice, and still do. And the idea of female evil is a known Gnostic idea and they are dualistic and pagan because they believe in two gods.


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## veeall (Oct 17, 2020)

In bible there exists and organized hierarchy of evil (that is adversary to God the Creator), consisting of forces/beings of not of the 'flesh and blood'.

Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be
*thrones,* or
*dominions,* or
*principalities,* or
*powers:* all things were created by him, and for him:

visible and invisible (what we'd, perhaps erroneously, call - a physical and a spiritual)

Colossians 2:15
And having spoiled *principalities* and *powers,* he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against *principalities,* against *powers,* against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high _places_.

In this warfare, humans are patsies, mostly unaware of being manipulated. Manipulated to make bad *choices* - that is, of ones *free will* - important because it gives legality to offences by these powers. Everything revolves around legality of actions, to legally push a man to his Doom, otherwise it won't stand in court - man would be justified. The main perpetrator was 'okey' in Heaven until iniquity was found in him, after which he(or it?) was cast off. I'm entertaining the idea that since the beginning of time his only (or first) *illegal* offence was the conspiracy against Jesus the Christ. 

Ezekiel 28
Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD;

Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone _was_ thy covering...:
the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Thou _art_ the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee _so_:
thou wast upon the holy mountain of God;
thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Thou _wast_ perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created,
*till iniquity was found in thee.*


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## JimDuyer (Oct 17, 2020)

EUAFU said:


> Jim Duyer said:
> 
> 
> > EUAFU said:
> ...


No. We are talking about the same people.  IN the bible you will read that "Oh Jerusalem, your father is an Amorite and your mother is a Hittite". and this was recorded about 1500 years after the last Sumerians and even the Amorites, ceased to exist as such.  Same people, just a bit earlier.

	Post automatically merged: Oct 17, 2020



EUAFU said:


> Jim Duyer said:
> 
> 
> > EUAFU said:
> ...


No. We are talking about the same people.  IN the bible you will read that "Oh Jerusalem, your father is an Amorite and your mother is a Hittite". and this was recorded about 1500 years after the last Sumerians and even the Amorites, ceased to exist as such.  Same people, just a bit earlier.


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## EUAFU (Oct 18, 2020)

Human imagination creates evil. Evil, for example, does not exist for animals.

The passage that says that God creates evil has exactly the same meaning. When he created the forbidden fruit he created evil (everyone remembers the tree of good and evil) because without evil there can be no good. Many biblical passages (most of them actually) teach spiritual things.

God is wise in everything he does.


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## JimDuyer (Oct 18, 2020)

EUAFU said:


> Human imagination creates evil. Evil, for example, does not exist for animals.
> 
> The passage that says that God creates evil has exactly the same meaning. When he created the forbidden fruit he created evil (everyone remembers the tree of good and evil) because without evil there can be no good. Many biblical passages (most of them actually) teach spiritual things.
> 
> God is wise in everything he does.


Actually, it isn't the passage that says God created evil.  It's the report from Isaiah on
what God commented to him directly - when God said he creates evil, not once but forever:

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. 
And it does not seem to be limited to one time only, or to the time when he created the tree of good and evil, but rather it was a later period, which we can see with the other part of this verse, which
mentions peace.  He did not create peace in the garden only.  And it does not say "created" as in once in the past, but rather I create evil.   
Why give us free will, and then place evil among us, to tempt us into sin?  Why not just leave it out altogether, or let man find it and install it, himself?   Those are interesting questions in my opinion.


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