# Evidence humans were created and traded as slaves, food, entertainment and material resources (IHASFEMR)



## usselo (May 29, 2021)

Splitting this discussion from Vagabond's Cannibalism in humans, Great Apes, Prion diseases, and mRNA therapy so that thread can recover its original focus on: cannibalism/covid vaccines -> prions -> zombies.

This thread will focus on helping people identify, present and discuss evidence that humans were created - and traded - as intelligent slaves, food, entertainment and as bio-factories to produce raw and refined materials.

As the concept is <cough> a bit of a mouthful, I've labelled it 'IHASFEMR', short for 'Intelligent Humans as Slaves, Food, Entertainment, and Material Resources'.

IHASFEMR is memorably close to 'I Has Femur' - femurs apparently having been a popular SKU - judging by the quantities of them warehoused in crypts and ossuaries.

And the DevOps folks will like it.

To get the pre-split background to this thread, read the posts from Vagabond's thread. They introduce images, evidence, interpretations of the evidence from a IHASFEMR perspective.

Reply to Sapiot:



> I just realized this, and it ties in with the terminology of the nunneries being for growing the next batch for harvest: The nuns are called "sister", and the priests are called "father". Let that sink in. Maybe the cherub was also because some cattle couldn't live past a few years old due to genetic defects caused by inbreeding.



Another good catch! Can you be more explicit about what you are thinking with regard to cherubs? Are you thinking perhaps they were automatically selected into the food market if born deformed or looked unlikely to grow up fit for slave work, entertainment? As opposed to being bred for food or bred to supply famine markets? Or other?

It is a useful idea to follow up on. There are clues that this sort of product selection may have been so normal that it was codified. Specific examples that come to mind are:

1. Babies born in a marriage versus babies born outside of marriage (the latter being taken into various forms of 'care', as discussed earlier)

2. Sheela-na-gig imagery. I don't want to get into the details just here because there is a lot to sort out with the thread-split. But Sheela-na-gig images are worth looking at with the IHASFEMR model in mind and an awareness of the practice of 'placentophagy'.

3. In farm management as it is conventionally understood, farmers select out male poultry for slaughtering ASAP after birth. That's the job of 'chicken sexers'. I think cattle farmers may do something similar with beef. But I'm not sure.

Picking up the unaddressed question in the Cannibalism in humans, Great Apes, Prion diseases, and mRNA therapy post about crypts as depots for bone consumers:



> How did so many bones come to be stacked in orderly piles in three known English church crypts, and perhaps another 65 or more lost crypts?



Specifically, how did human bones come to be stacked under churches without people realising or at least remembering the extent of it?

To explore answers to this question we need a chronology, though a chronology is difficult to establish because the issue we're investigating is apparently kept secret. But let's give it a go...

As far as I can tell so far, humans started out being openly slaughtered - usually as infants or children - wherever it was expedient to do so. In the field and on the building site. However, there were also special purpose facilities with better arrangements for collecting blood. I suspect blood may be more useful in electrical/magnetic technology than we know but that is mere intuition at this stage. Regardless, we know those facilities as 'communal toilets'. Again, this was open slaughter. Your hands were tied together in the prey/prayer position and you began your journey to 'Elysia' or Heaven' or whatever.

It's a shame Pavel Verkhov AKA Alexander Alekseev AKA kbogam chose to demonstrate a human slaughter using curvaceous, near-naked young women. In my opinion, he might better have caught the head-trapping functionality of communal toilets' design if he had modelled it using three to 12 year olds. Regardless, the images in his page show how communal toilets might have been used as the halal human slaughterhouses some of us suspect they really were.
​When that started I can't say. But as the market for human products developed into a demand for human slaves, so developed a demand for *controlled* human sentience. Ie, reasoning abilities coupled with automatic safety circuits, such as credulity towards authority and obedience. These are hard-coded as the 'loyalty loop'. We see them operating all around us.

This new product offer was people like us, created for a market that could use people and products like us. IHASFEMR. My guess is that IHASFEMR hit the market more or less around what we call 1,000 AD.

Seemingly, these people - people like us - *did* realise what was being done to them and during the period from around 1100 to around 1530 were unhappy about it (see under-documented "Peasant's Revolts"). Around 1530, reforming events occurred. Perhaps these events followed an unsatisfactory facilities inspection by customer representatives or 'higher ups'. The events seem to have been one or more mudfloods, at which time the crypts were largely covered up, and the whole thing later re-labelled as 'The Reformation'.

However, the trade in human food and human parts carried on in secret. Crypt archaeology shows it was already physically underground to some extent, but it seems to have diversified from a village phenomenon into an extensive, secret underground - and therefore expensive to build - urban phenomenon. Possibly it was extended from 1790 or so onwards. The original rural infrastructure also seems to have been secretly extended, though whether that was before 1790-ish, or after, or throughout the process, is difficult to assess.

The key point of this chronology is that we are looking at phased expansion over many centuries of a secret physical infrastructure. That means we cannot be entirely sure of date of construction or *date of usage*. However, there is ample evidence of usage and of attempts to dismiss efforts to expose this infrastructure. We can interpret the politics of the situation - which is *our* situation - accordingly.

So, returning to the question: How was it hidden? We started with former Lincoln Cathedral Dean, the Rev Brandon Jackson, who wasn't alone in believing (quoting The Biblical ‘Abomination of Desolation’ Prophecy Enacted at Lincoln Cathedral? - World Mysteries Blog):



> a* battle of good and evil* centred on the ancient Minster and then went on to ask that he* close the Cathedral for six months for it to be exorcised* by prayers.


Jackson wasn't alone because:


> The Telegraph carrying *a report of a ‘swirling evil’ theory* that had been repeated by Deans and Provosts at their annual April conference that year (1995), and also told of a Dean of another Cathedral who said that *Lincoln Cathedral was one of the most evil places* he had been in.



And here's a quote from Susanna O'Neill's_ Lincolnshire Folklore_:


> The Devil must have been a regular visitor to the cathedral, as there is a legend connected to the tomb of St Hugh. The belief was that when you closed your eyes to pray, you were in danger of the Devil coming up behind you, unseen, and so when you knelt to pray at St Hugh’s shrine there was a shallow dip containing salt which you could take and throw over your left shoulder to blind his approach



Odd to worry about the Devil while being prey praying to the saint at that very saint's own cathedral. Unless the Church was hiding something.

Here's an elevation and plan of the crypt beneath the east end of St Mary's Church, Burwell, Cambridgeshire:



_Crypt of St Mary's Church, Burwell, Cambridgeshire_​A vestry (dressing room) or an anchorite cell? No-one knows. No-one knows why this sub-structure was built and who - or what - lived down there. But per https://www.british-history.ac.uk/rchme/cambs/vol2/pp18-47, it's got a fireplace and its own stone 'altar'. Scaled from the plan by me, using a cheap plastic vernier gauge, that altar measures nearly 7 feet by 4 feet.

Quite the mortuary slab.

This next image is ripped from an archaeologist's report - _Charnel practices in medieval England: new perspectives_ - on Holy Trinity Church, Rothwell, Northamptonshire, which an earlier post highlighted as an example of a bone depot possibly supplying mills like the Narborough bone mill.

_Cutaway view of Holy Trinity Church showing slot that links the altar to the bone crypt_​
Modern archaeologists - equipped with excellent reasoning abilities coupled with equally excellent automatic safety circuits - interpret the slot as the means by which old timers enabled orderly stacks of bones to listen, along with the living, to masses.

Sounds a bit far-fetched to me.

The above examples are of infrastructure that has been hidden, or at least discretely explained away, since around 1530. Now we turn to examples from Britain's later urban expansion. These examples blend old - such as the above - with an expansion into distribution tunnels hidden beneath urban settings, possibly from around 1790. There is so much of it, I will switch primarily to links. Starting with evidence that existing church tunnels and crypts were:

1. Blocked up, and
2. Denied.

There are tunnels under Stamford (England). See Secrets of Stamford School and Secret tunnels.

"No", says a poster: "just basements"

From: Ecclesiastical Buildings | British History Online about All Saints Church, Stamford:


> In 1857, a subterranean compartment, 9 ft. 6 ins. wide and 12 ft. high, with a quadripartite vault, and passages on S. and W., 6 ft. wide and 7 ft. high, was found within the churchyard on the N. side of the church, but the precise location is not known.



From the same https://www.british-history.ac.uk/rchme/stamford/pp6-36, this time about St Michael's Church, Stamford:


> Beneath the E. end of the church a narrow crypt running N. and S., and reached by the N.E. stair, has eight segmental vaults on the E. and three on the W., each constructed of stone and brick; *the central opening on the W. has a modern blocking and may have led to a passage axial with the church*.
> 
> A crypt under the tower, contemporary with the church, has stone walls. *On the E. a round-headed archway with circular responds and stiff-leaf capitals is blocked by a later brick apse* (apse = curved/angled wall).



Moving a few miles north to Newark (England)... From: Lead or Rumour info - - Newark tunnel 'legend' to be investigated | Leads, Rumours and News:


> There's always a tunnel between the church, the manor and the pub, even if there was no reason, and suitable roads.



And, quoting historian Jim Wishart from Newark tunnel 'legend' to be investigated:


> They could possibly link the castle, the church and the old chantry.



And: 
_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5AOt92FXpE_

and 
_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPZvI_K2UhM_

But no, there are no tunnels under Newark. See Radar searches fail to find town tunnel evidence.

They are just 'extended cellars'. See Newark tunnels search will continue.

There are tunnels under Gainsborough (England). See Gainsborough Lincolnshire and carefully read the comments by poster LincsRanger64, whose real name - I think - was Paul Kemp.

One comment in that Gainsborough link is:


> there was a tunnel between the Old Hall and Parish Church... the first cenotaph seems to have fallen into it


which brings to mind an earlier discussion about monuments having been removed from Grant's Park, Everton, Liverpool in The Williamson Tunnels, Liverpool, UK. The fear was they would fall into caverns beneath.

"But no", say several posters: "they're just cellars".

In Bury St Edmunds, tunnels cause road collapses. See Gaping 12ft hole in road could be underground tunnel.

Just a folk myth, counters Bury historian Clive Paine:


> There is a prevailing folk myth that Bury is filled with tunnels that were used by monks to get from one place to another



There are tunnels under Taunton (England). See Underground mystery: Do you know about Taunton's tunnels?

But a very confident-sounding commenter says:


> It's just relief and drainage, nothing more.


Drainage? Presumably just like the very well documented 'drainage' tunnels under Exeter: Exeter’s Underground Passages: A Hidden World of Medieval Engineering

There are tunnels under Hull (England). See Mysterious crates from the "Land of Green Ginger" found buried in secret cavern.

And tunnels under Nottingham (England): 
_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu_Ef7g8yOE_

And there are tunnels under Derby (England). See The secret tunnels under a city that council bosses don't want you to see:


> ...the Dolphin pub's landlord Richard Felix... discovered a tunnel in 2009... It is thought that through that passage grave robbers would deliver bodies to a doctor who once lived in the building, which dates back to *1530*.



And there are tunnels under Grantham, (England). See Grantham underground - more pictures - Grantham Matters.

Says a commenter:


> tunnels no; cellars yes



That's right, confirms a local historian in ‘Are there tunnels under Grantham?’ asks Civic Society’s Ruth Crook:


> Not tunnels, just cellars,
> 
> ...with meat hooks.
> 
> ...and stone stairs that go nowhere.


(If the original disappears, see this post's attached file: 'www-granthamjournal...' PDF)

I would have liked to include links to tunnels under Hertford. However, people who publicise Hertford's tunnels receive death threats like this:


> Those responsible had no business publicising any of the Templar tunnels, disused or otherwise. They will be dealt with. Anybody intending to find out more, let alone discover hidden areas of the labyrinth, should check their life insurance policy very carefully indeed.


So we won't discuss Hertford's tunnels - even though Hertford is the original source of Britain's finest bone china - due to its very high bone content.

Two of the guys cited in this post - Pavel Verkhov and Paul Kemp - died unexpectedly and young, shortly after publicising their parts of this story. Although we can't know if there was a link, as a nod to them, this clip is from the film version of David Mitchell's _Cloud Atlas_:





Your browser is not able to display this video.


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## Citezenship (May 29, 2021)

Thanks usselo, or should I say uccella.

Many things to think about here, none of them palatable.

Thanks for the kbogam links.

When re-furbing  a basement in the oldest part of Bristol we knocked in one of the arches at the end of the cellar only to discover that the tunnels extended far longer than our courage would allow us to wander, very dark, not only in lack of lighting but also mood.

These tunnels ran from underneath the aptly named "hatchet" pub) oldest in Bristol to at least the hippodrome and beyond and it is rumoured that they were the quarters for the slaves brought in through Bristol harbour, maybe it is where they were quartered.

There are also many tunnels with the same construction techniques as the Williamson tunnels underneath the Bristol downs, they are very big and just as it happens there is an old public convenience at it's entrance, the old ceramic art deco type...

Also in the downs is the St Vincents cave, or giants cave, sat right on top of the cave is the Clifton observatory, affectionately know as "snuff mils", it used to mean something different back then but as we know it is also slang for death.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clifton_Observatory
I am sure these are just mere coincidences.

By the way i am never going into a public convenience ever again.

Oh and the vid has no sound in the browser on mac os but it has when downloaded.


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## solarbard (May 30, 2021)

Yeah, this feels TOO true. I might need to take a break from this site.


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## Oracle (May 30, 2021)

usselo said:


> I think cattle farmers may do something similar with beef. But I'm not sure.


The Steers (castrated  males) are the ones kept for beef production in the breeds grown for meat,the females are generally kept for breeders.
In Dairy of course, the reverse holds true for importance in food production.
Edit to add: As an aside,something that has changed over the last twenty years with regard to meat production is the age at which beasts are slaughtered.Try to buy beef that's from an animal over two years now. And mutton has completely disappeared ( In Australia anyway) as sheep slaughtered for domestic consumption nowadays rarely are beyond 12 months old and most chicken sold in the shops is less than 12 weeks old. I assume this is done for economical reasons i.e. Less feed and higher turnover.


usselo said:


> It's a shame Pavel Verkhov AKA Alexander Alekseev AKA kbogam chose to demonstrate a human slaughter using curvaceous, near-naked young women.


Heavens, that  was some visual journey (  I didn't translate the text). I haven't come across that theory before.



usselo said:


> But as the market for human products developed into a demand for human slaves, so developed a demand for *controlled* human sentience. Ie, reasoning abilities coupled with automatic safety circuits, such as credulity towards authority and obedience. These are hard-coded as the 'loyalty loop'. We see them operating all around us.


I came across this theory the other day about a subset of incarnations termed "backfill people" which would fill the bill for your loyalty loop aka NPCs.


> What are backfill people?​Needler has described how _every_ entity within the multiverse has two roles to play:
> 
> 
> To experience, learn and evolve through all the different universal environments.
> ...


What Are Backfill People? - Big Picture Questions



usselo said:


> the crypt beneath the east end of St Mary's Church, Burwell, Cambridgeshire:


While agreeing with your suspicions with regard to the uses over the centuries of the tunnel networks,these rooms under towers may have originally been part of an atmospheric energy capture system.
Excellent thread, and you've unearthed some amazing articles. I don't think this was our original reason for creation though,but one used and continued by the dark entities of our world and their minions for centuries. Thanks for continuing this worthy discussion here.


Citezenship said:


> quarters for the slaves brought in through Bristol harbour, maybe it is where they were quartered.


You've put a whole new view of the term slave quarters in front of me!



solarbard said:


> Yeah, this feels TOO true. I might need to take a break from this site


ha,ha. Yes I have to do that every now and then.Sometimes there's just too much information to be gained here!

*edited in two left out words.


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## usselo (May 30, 2021)

solarbard said:


> Yeah, this feels TOO true. I might need to take a break from this site.


 I know.

I *think* the visible part of our roadmap looks something like this:

Stage 1. Seeing the evidence
Stage 2. Understanding the evidence
Stage 3. Grief (which has its own stages)
Stage 4. Gratitude

Gratitude is there because if you make this horror story go away, we go away.

We exist because of it.

Once you get to gratitude, you have reached a rare form of maturity. My guess is that discovery of stage five starts somewhere around there.

If IHASFEMR is even close to correct, then we are being watched as we go through this process. Not, I think, with hunger (though that may still be there) but with curiousity and perhaps compassion.

I hope you don't leave the site. If you do take a break, it might be worth using some of the time to watch the British TV series _Humans_ if you can access it, or the US TV series _Westworld_.

I'm sure those show and tells shows were made for a reason. As, I'm sure, was _Cloud Atlas_.

I've got quite a bit more evidence to post but I'm taking care about what I post and what I hold back. This because one needs time to digest the evidence. I want to see how that is going. Also, various groups may take offence. I don't have a clear picture of how that aspect of the situation looks.

I really appreciate your replies for what they are and because they give me a chance to separate new posts from previous posts.


Citezenship said:


> Thanks usselo, or should I say uccella.
> 
> Many things to think about here, none of them palatable.
> 
> ...


An evening spent with kbogam is never wasted.

Thanks so much for your additions. That pattern is seen over and over again around England (and I dare say the UK). It is the 'major port' variant of the pattern. Your 'discovered it while refurbing' is also a pattern.

Public conveniences are also part of an urban distribution pattern. As are coaching inns/hotels/pubs, assembly rooms, guildhalls, corn exchanges, general post offices, banks. As are 1960s ugly Arndale shopping centres.


Oracle said:


> Heavens, that  was some visual journey (  I didn't translate the text). I haven't come across that theory before.
> 
> I came across this theory the other day about a subset of incarnations termed "backfill people" which would fill the bill for your loyalty loop aka NPCs.
> 
> ...


Thanks Oracle! Yes, that is a visual journey for sure.

I think it is us who have loyalty loops, though anyone 'genuine' who is registered on SH.net is likely to be somewhere in the process of breaking out of theirs.

What I mean by 'loyalty loop' is - as an example - genuine people (ie not NPCs) who cannot see evidence of a problem with this or that authority. Instead, they tell those who can see a problem: "You're a conspiracy theorist." That is their loyalty loop in action. It is not related to their intelligence or reasoning ability. It is a trip-switch, a circuit breaker.

That said, I do wonder if there are NPCs. I speculate about characters I've known in my life and whether they are 'complete' or not, or there to provoke specific responses.

Church towers and non-church towers are fascinating. I agree with you that there is evidence for an electrical (or magnetic or etheric) function. However, I also found evidence this power supply function may have been one component among a wider range of uses. It is one of those areas where a researcher goes to examine the evidence and - almost immediately - encounters attempts to suppress the evidence. Which, while it makes the original evidence harder to interpret, simultaneously provides more evidence that the original evidence does contain a mystery worth looking for. It is always helpful when attempts to suppress evidence actually help identify evidence.

I suspect the story of the attempted removal of Lincoln Cathedral's spires in 1809? and their actual removal in the 1860s? is evidence they were a utility for the ordinary people of that time. It needs investigating. But already, this spires story gives us clues as to what period the benefits of being (partially) freed from the original stock pen were being removed (by - possibly - members of our own species). I'll post a little more on this but really I'm describing an investigation technique rather than a solution to the mystery of etheric power plants.

Hopefully we will see useful results from experiments in the cement battery thread.


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## Sapioit (May 31, 2021)

usselo said:


> Another good catch! Can you be more explicit about what you are thinking with regard to cherubs? Are you thinking perhaps they were automatically selected into the food market if born deformed or looked unlikely to grow up fit for slave work, entertainment? As opposed to being bred for food or bred to supply famine markets? Or other?


Maybe all of the above. I mean, if all the nuns call eachother "sister", and all the priests are called "father", then in most cases they wouldn't know who is whose father, for reasons which I will leave to your imagination.



solarbard said:


> Yeah, this feels TOO true. I might need to take a break from this site.


I know the feeling. Very relatable.



Oracle said:


> > What are backfill people?​Needler has described how _every_ entity within the multiverse has two roles to play:
> >
> >
> > To experience, learn and evolve through all the different universal environments.
> > ...


That's an interesting find. It does check out, sandly, with the west being plagued with people being very... influenceable, to say the least. Basically, most of the people in the western world feel like mere automatons, which aren't really used to dealing with real life properly.

I also wonder if that percentage of backfill people is used to stress-test, to either filter out those who are not close enough to being perfect, and/or show those people/souls what they need to take care of next, and/or getting those people/souls ready for the next level of complexity or the next world their journey leads them to move into (like a flight simulator being used to train flight pilots, for example).



usselo said:


> I suspect the story of the attempted removal of Lincoln Cathedral's spires in 1809? and their actual removal in the 1860s? is evidence they were a utility for the ordinary people of that time. It needs investigating. But already, this spires story gives us clues as to what period the benefits of being (partially) freed from the original stock pen were being removed (by - possibly - members of our own species). I'll post a little more on this but really I'm describing an investigation technique rather than a solution to the mystery of etheric power plants.
> 
> Hopefully we will see useful results from experiments in the cement battery thread.


It does seem to me, too, that a lot of the infrastructure used for harvesting humans might have had prior uses which helped humans. And it does somewhat link with the biblical story of creation. People lived in a place where they had everything they needed, then some members of the groups were corrupted, which caused everyone to be kicked out (i.e. by invading enemies), and after the story of creation, we delve into the story of the times around when Jesus supposedly lived, which is quite a big time skip. 



solarbard said:


> Anyone starting to think the prohibition on "Pork" in Judaism and Islam wasn't referring to the flesh of pigs? Those faiths also started preaching against human sacrifice. Connection?


Now that you mention it, it does sound plausible. I wonder what the words for pork and pig were, in the texts officially attributed to those times. We might see a connection there, too, like we saw with cherub, for example. The reasoning given as to why pork and other animals should not be eaten is also relevant, in my opinion, since it could explain some things, and it could even lead to the next discovery on the topic. From what I vaguely remember, it does mention not eating animals which eat other animals, or something like that. 

Now that I said that, could the veganism and vegetarianism movements have been caused so those humans can be eaten by (some) islamists and judaists?


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## usselo (Jun 1, 2021)

Sapioit said:


> Maybe all of the above. I mean, if all the nuns call eachother "sister", and all the priests are called "father", then in most cases they wouldn't know who is whose father, for reasons which I will leave to your imagination.


A feature of many English tunnel legends is they were "built so the monks could visit the nuns".

The modern mind - corrupted by sexualised music and 'glamourised' TV/Internet, along with reports of pedo-ecclesiasticism - hears that and thinks: "Ooh-er. Naughty nuns, flirty friars!".

The mind that has followed Oracle's link to Paul Budde's amazing flood-followed-by-famine chronology hears it and thinks: "The Church is in the business of 'hatches, matches, dispatches'. Perhaps it responded to the cycle of flood-followed-by-famine. Perhaps it refocused its business model to meet surging market demand for 'hatches'."

That last explanation fits in well with the idea that things started out well for humanity before deteriorating. It also fits in nicely with the idea that things started out badly and had to be hidden once the sentience feature was added to humans.

Of course, the idea that humans were created, and that sentience was a feature added later doesn't sound very reasonable unless you have read Eugene McCarthy's macro-evolution theory. His theory that we are a chimpig hybrid is a shock but seems well researched and well reasoned (to me). When you hear McCarthy interviewed about how the hybridisation could have happened, then the notion humans were the accidental outcome of an iridium encounter comes up. That seems less rational to me. Given the secrecy around the physical evidence and the folklore about sacrifices, and slavery, etc, it seems more rational (to me) that we were the result of product managers responding to original market demand. Hence, from the available explanations for England's post-mudflood tunnels, I pick the "Church refocused on hatches" explanation.



Sapioit said:


> It does seem to me, too, that a lot of the infrastructure used for harvesting humans might have had prior uses which helped humans. And it does somewhat link with the biblical story of creation. People lived in a place where they had everything they needed, then some members of the groups were corrupted, which caused everyone to be kicked out (i.e. by invading enemies), and after the story of creation, we delve into the story of the times around when Jesus supposedly lived, which is quite a big time skip.



It would be good to present and discuss evidence that things started out well for humans.

Resolving that question is critical to understanding why such an extensive tunnel network was built, why it was hidden and why resources are still deployed to derail fabricant our analysis of it.

I haven't presented all the evidence for the existence of the tunnel network (there's so much of it). Instead, I tried to show how to find the easily available examples - and how the denial of them looks - so people can review the available facts for themselves.

Did I select for towns that I already knew had rumours of tunnels (and tunnel deniers)? No. I picked towns/places I visited as a kid (Dad being a delivery driver, holidays involved a simple transfer from classroom seat to passenger seat, followed by tours of the towns between the rivers Witham and Trent).

Once you start to see the characteristics of the tunnel evidence, it is really easy to find new examples. So, until the search algorithms change, research should be a simple case of typing "tunnels under <name of preferred town/village>" followed by some reading time.

Just to highlight two examples of how true it is that there are 'secret/hidden tunnels under English towns and villages':

1. You can post the 'tunnels hidden beneath English pubs/churches/halls' proposition - along with supporting links - on a history forum and someone from a big British town like Bristol will say: "Yep, found one under a pub; been in it".

2. A few months ago, I drove through Corby Glen, Lincolnshire, England. Population: 1,000. A big village, that's all.

Back then, out of the corner of the eye, I saw this hollowish-looking way (Laxton Lane: (Google Maps) (Google Street View)) and thought "Looks odd. Hollow way? Ghostly hunt? Extension of High Dyke/Byards Leap? Parallel to High Dyke? Check map."

Driving back through Corby Glen I saw this building (Willoughby Memorial Art Gallery: (Google Maps) (Google Street View) and thought: "Ashlar construction. Posh. Commanding position. Lord/Duke/Earl? Shy? Philanphropist?"

A little Corby Glen research turns up its village water pump. Preserved and/or culverted springs, wells, and pumps are often connected with legends about England's underground infrastructure. Luckily enough, a relative knows someone from Corby Glen. Last week I got a moment to interrogate the poor person:

1. Know any legends about the posh buildings and churches in Corby Glen?
2. Know any legends about tunnels in Corby Glen?

Here are their answers (including my spelling mistakes). I've changed their name to 'witness' and neutered their gender. I never got to asking question two because 'witness' self-segued into tunnels while still answering question one:



> Earnham Hall (cut: who worked for who and when, what they were like, what they were interested in)
> 
> Tunnels:
> Earnham Hall to Corby Glen Methodist church (now a dance school)
> ...



Comments about various people omitted.

If a historian wrote up Corby Glen, they'd say 'legends of tunnels' and that would be the end of it.

Side-note for English people: Ironically, reading Wakipedia's Corby Glen 'Notable Residents' section brought back events I had forgotten and had not connected with this research. It was very spooky to see it, given earlier speculation in these threads 

*Summary:* you can put the tunnels proposition to someone from a big British town or a little English village and there is a high probability they will say:



> There's one from this pub/hall/church to that church/hall/pub. Been in it.



That's because the tunnels are everywhere. Everywhere. They were resource-heavy to build yet they were built. Why? Because they mattered. Everywhere. And that suggests they were not simply priests' holes.

What is also important is that, as the links showed, for some reason even now - years later, centuries later - some institution(s) don't want us to analyse them.

Any thoughts on alternative explanations for all this?


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## Oracle (Jun 1, 2021)

> References to a new Era, a Golden Age characterised by harmony, stability and prosperity, do not just belong to the Native Americans, but can be found in myths and legends from all over the world.  It is known as Chryson Genos in Greek mythology, the Kali yuga in Vedic and Hindu culture, and gullaldr in Norse mythology.  One aspect that is common among many legends of the Golden era is the return of beings or gods that will aid in the restoration of the Earth.
> 
> In classical Greek mythology the Golden Age was presided over by the leading Titan Cronus. In some version of the myth Astraea, also ruled. She lived with men until the end of the Silver Age, but in the Bronze Age, when men became violent and greedy, fled to the stars, where she appears as the constellation Virgo, holding the scales of Justice, or Libra.


Source


usselo said:


> It would be good to present and discuss evidence that things started out well for humans.


Well we know there's many cultures around the world believed in a former golden age but my thoughts are that after every reset ( Grand Cycle not parasite resets) we have to start again from scratch in a primitive fashion as if it's the point of our existance.
So I think ( and it's late here so I won't research now) at the very beginning things were good, i.e our needs were provided for just as a babies are when first born, and we were taught what we needed to know and took it from there ourselves in advancement.
Then the malicious entities lurking in our world slowly take over and we know the rest. They're like a virus ultimately ending up bluescreening the computer and corrupting the OS. I think when we run recovery, and reinstall, we are happy at these times as we will have recovered our free will and autonomy before it all gets corrupted again by the next infiltration.
I think I may have wandered off my point there, but I'll leave it and go to sleep for now.

As for alternatives, I will play devil's advocate and say perhaps they were for food storage,cellars, normal communication in climatic or uncertain times and some for smugglers.


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## usselo (Jun 1, 2021)

Oracle said:


> As for alternatives, I will play devil's advocate and say perhaps they were for food storage,cellars, normal communication in climatic or uncertain times and some for smugglers.



Thanks for picking up the challenge Oracle. Especially while tired - that's beyond the call of duty.

Devil's advocate is helpful. It lets people weigh up the evidence and the reasoning in an open way. I'm keen to hear what people think of the options we each see and to add their own.

Perhaps unexpectedly, I agree with your Devil's advocate points. I've taken them point by point. I've also trowelled on the detail like wet cement because many board users may not be familiar with England, its culture, its opportunities for, and culture around, smuggling. That may not be necessary for you but I wanted to make sure other readers had context:

1. food storage. Yep. Normal for food storage, like bags of potatoes, turnips, parsnips, salt, flour, etc. But why deny this today? Why deny tunnels at all if they were only about food storage? Why build tunnels for food storage? Ruth Crook mentioned 'meathooks'. She's not the only writer to comment on meathooks in England's secret places.

The unpleasant photograph below is from Capela dos Ossos, Evora, Portugal - not England. Nevertheless, perhaps it can help us overcome our taboos about how business might have looked.


Meathook merchandise​
I suspect the problem about food storage is to do with salted meat and smoked meat, preserved and sold 'on the bone'. Tunnel legends' termination points (meaning: tunnel entrances and exits) of urban English tunnels sometimes say the tunnel terminated in the 'marketplace' or the market square. In a few cases, you find specific references to tunnels terminating under "Butcher's Row".

Butcher's Row, Grantham: (Google maps), (Google Streetview)

Butcher's Baulk, Royston: (Google maps), (Google Streetview)

I haven't tested the Royston coordinates' 'Streetview' link but if you swing the orange figurine around you should get a sense of the area today. Royston is in Hertfordshire and we're discouraged from talking about tunnels in Hertfordshire. Except Royston Cave. Even then, we follow guidelines. Because there is nothing to see here, move along.

In three other locations, tunnels allegedly terminate in buildings owned - or previously owned - by existing butchers. One of them is also on a rumoured tunnel line that runs from a town's central church past the butcher's shop and on to that butcher's former meat preparation facility about 400 yards away. They still have a meat-prep facility 15 yards or so from the old meat-prep facility. Because those three butchers still trade, I won't name them.

In two other locations there are 'Butcher's Rows' that I haven't looked into yet. I don't have tunnel legends for them and haven't had time to look for tunnel legends. They are:

Butcher's Row, Beverley, West Yorkshire
and
Butcher's Row, Shrewsbury, Shropshire

*Summary:* Food storage. Yes, agreed. The secrecy is about the meat. (I think about live trade too but that is for another day).

3. cellars. Agreed again. The tunnel legends often terminate them in cellars (and 'vaults'). We moderns tend to think something like: "a tunnel is linear and cannot be a cellar". And: "a cellar is under one building and not linear, so it is nothing to do with tunnels". I need a lot of space to deal with our usage of underground spaces versus other entities' usage of underground spaces. I think the easiest way to begin to see one of the big differences is that we perceive property as having stringent property boundaries. I don't think they did. So their cellars and vaults could extend into 'common spaces' under the street. Read Ruth Crook on this. She gives it away. Another clue is that if you go searching for tunnel legends you will find things like: "There was a tunnel going out from our cellar. It went towards the pub/church/hall/monastery, but the landowners bricked it up in the early 1960s".

*Summary*: Tunnels versus cellars is an issue of semantics and former physical integration that is now blocked off.

4. normal communication in climatic or uncertain times. This one is really interesting. Wish I had the resources to investigate. We have a cycle of floods and possibly those floods included mudfloods. It is possible folks prepared for them (and there is evidence that the farmers of us did prepare for them). However, tunnels don't really help preserve you and your stored stock/harvest in a flood unless you can seal them (see Congham, Norfolk, England) That said, there are linear structures that are rumoured to be tunnels that are half above ground. Eg: Binham, Norfolk, England. There are several narrative-defying dykes in East Anglia but Binham's green bank is the only one I've found so far with a findable tunnel legend. Perhaps Binham was an attempt to create a flood/fire-resistant 'tunnel'.

*Summary:* There's something in this. It is complex and under-researched, though the engineering described in most tunnel legends doesn't support this use-case.

5. and some for smugglers. This one is fascinating. Given that for most of us, the initial explanation for tunnels is 'smugglers', you would think that any parts of England near the coast would likely have smuggling legends. You would think that any English coast that is a short sea journey from another country (with the product, price and tax differences that make smuggling profitable) would most likely have had smugglers. So, in England you would look at the south coast and lower (southern) east coast because both coasts face Europe (wine, tobacco, perfumes, drugs, etc). Possibly England's west coast because it faces Ireland. But Ireland was for a long time under British rule and so presumably there weren't the tax and product differences that smugglers' profits rely on.

In theory, we might expect more tunnels in the Europe-facing coastal areas than elsewhere. And we might expect their tunnel terminations would bring them out at coasts and rivers that enable boat access to the sea. And not so much at churches. Except, possibly, for 'the parson's brandy'. Even then, the parson would be wise to avoid having smuggling's physical infrastructure being discovered on his premises.

Unfortunately there's no (public) national survey of Britain's smugglers' tunnels, let alone all its secret tunnels. So we don't have nationwide data we can examine.

However, we do have one regional data-set. In the 70s and 80s, Mike Burgess published _The Lantern_ - a fanzine about mysteries in East Anglia. Then a website called Hidden East Anglia. Which has a section on East Anglia's tunnel legends.

Perfect for us. We are looking for details of tunnels in a coastal area facing Europe. East Anglia is perfect for smugglers in that respect. Not only that, but this is the coastal area of England closest to Holland and Belgium, where we have Paul Budde's evidence of floods-followed-by-famine. An area of Europe with demand for food and an inability to produce it themselves. So, this part of England ticks all the boxes:

1. It is ideal for smugglers
2. It is ideal for our specific purpose (finding infrastructure associated with a secret body parts trade into Europe)

Burgess conveniently made his tunnels index page easy to analyse by tunnel termination types. I've separated out the methodology into a later section to add below because I have laboured this response already.

Burgess listed 228 individual tunnel legends outside of East Anglian towns.

If they were built for smuggling, the majority will have a termination point on the coast, on a river, at a dock. For folks unfamiliar with Europe, the proposition is smugglers would want to blend in with freight traffic crossing the North Sea).

But that is not what we find.

Of the 228 East Anglian tunnel legends Burgess listed, 17 of them claimed the tunnel terminated at "smuggler's"  locations like: 'river', 'beach', 'cliff', 'dock', 'rock', 'shore'. That is: 8% of tunnels terminated at a location useful for smuggling.

122 tunnel legends claimed tunnel terminations at ecclesiastical locations like: 'abbey|cathedral|chapel|church|friary|minster|nun|priory|rectory|temple|vicar'. That is 54%.

*Summary:* By far the majority of East Anglian tunnel legends involve religious buildings. Relatively few involve smugglers' locations. Even in a coastal area of England that favours smuggling.

Just for completeness, let's add in the other termination types that often appear in tunnel legends:

Add in 'manor and hall' and the 122 ecclesiastical tunnel terminations rises to 149. 149 / 228 * 100 = 65%

Add in 'castle and mound' and the 149 tunnel terminations becomes 157. 157 / 228 * 100 = 69%

Add in 'inn, pub and hotel' and the 157 tunnel terminations becomes 170. 170 / 228 * 100 = 75%

I'd argue that 'manor' and 'hall' are really 'ecclesiastical' origins to a not widely advertised quirk of English architectural history called 'moated manor houses' but I have separated 'manor' and 'hall' out to stick with a modern understanding of them. The point still holds: tunnel legends suggest they served _Homo ecclesiasticus_ more than _Homo smuggliens_.

I hope this response doesn't come over as overwhelming come-back on your Devilish Advocacy. I did this analysis weeks ago and planned to post it later on. However, your smugglers question gave me the kick in the pants I needed to bring it forward.

It's taken longer to format than I expected. I will check for mistakes and update in the morning. And add in the Linux 'grep|wc -l' parts of the methodology if anyone wants it.

E_dit: various, plus unpleasant photograph_


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## Citezenship (Jun 2, 2021)

usselo said:


> That's because the tunnels are everywhere. Everywhere. They were resource-heavy to build yet they were built. Why? Because they mattered. Everywhere. And that suggests they were not simply priests' holes.


Not only why but by whom and when and did we build them or find them.



usselo said:


> I haven't tested the Royston coordinates' 'Streetview' link but if you swing the orange figurine around you should get a sense of the area today. Royston is in Hertfordshire and we're discouraged from talking about tunnels in Hertfordshire. Except Royston Cave. Even then, we follow guidelines. Because there is nothing to see here, move along.


There are some parallels to the Clifton cave and the Royston cave, both have a giants folklore, both discovered by chance, both inhabited by saints.

http://dersu4krvz7v7.cloudfront.net...in-Royston-surrounding-area-A1_final-copy.pdf

Goram and Vincent - Wikipedia

What peaked my interest was the similarity of the names of the giants, Ghyston and Royston.


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## davtash (Jun 2, 2021)

usselo said:


> I know.
> 
> I *think* the visible part of our roadmap looks something like this:
> 
> ...


Love the idea of the trip switch as in "The Truman Show" and "Serenity."


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## usselo (Jun 2, 2021)

Citezenship said:


> Not only why but by whom and when and did we build them or find them.
> 
> 
> There are some parallels to the Clifton cave and the Royston cave, both have a giants folklore, both discovered by chance, both inhabited by saints.
> ...


Thank you so much for the PDF. I haven't finished reading it but one quote in particular:



> Beliefs
> Within Hertfordshire and Cambridgeshire there are some strange beliefs when it comes to generalising events, here are just a few of them:
> 
> If a church bell is rung after a wedding it is a bad omen for the couple.



Yes! Why? What were 'bells' before they were sugar-coated into tinkly tonkly musical instruments? Why are there so many accounts of monks hiding bells underground and of enraged villagers hating them, throwing them down wells?

How do the many accounts of 'peasant' rage with ecclesiasts tie in with the many, many records of English churches being dilapidated by around 1830? (See individual church's repair histories online and the Victoria County History collections).

I haven't untangled it all but the options seem to be:

1. Because peasants are ignorant, irreligious, pagan thugs.
2. Because bells = 'curfew bells' = slavery (seemingly that is white slavery in this English context, though 'moors' move in and out of the picture too)
3. Because - in some way - bells were part of church electrical appliances per Victor Mamzerev's series starting at https://pro-vladimir.livejournal.com/994.html (Russian), (English translation)
4. Because bells are re-branded mortars, as in mortar and pestle, not as in the alleged weaponry that was clearly unusable for military purposes. Why would church mortars enrage villagers? Why would they be particularly upsetting for newly-weds? Why do sacrifice stories contain a meme about 'give up the first born'? Why Cambridgeshire and Hertfordshire? What is Hertford famous for? Why does controversy follow discussion of certain Hertfordshire towns' histories?
5. Other (please feel free to add)

As you can see, I got excited when I read your PDF! 

Vincent and St Vincent comes up in the context of caves/tunnels/churches/giants. Haven't had time to collate it all.

Ghyston and Royston. Thanks. First time I've come across Ghyston. Try saying each of them with a Dutch-sounding initial 'H'. Dutch takes us into 'Ghent' and Gilbert de Gaunt, John O'Gaunt (their origin in Ghent is academically accepted, for what that is worth). And thence to Belgium's giants carnivals. And thence back to the possibility that flooding and famine triggered migration out of now-lost parts of Holland, Belgium, Doggerland by giants into what is now England. Which might explain the seemingly sudden arrival of Dukes and Duchies (think 'Dutchies') and the very odd stories that hang around 'Dukes' living in eastern England. Plus 'Dutch' funded 'politicians' like Cromwell ('Chrome' 'Well' = 'Poisoned' 'Well'?) and how mainstream's dominant narratives for eastern England's tunnels are "Priest's Hole" and "Civil War escape route".



davtash said:


> Love the idea of the trip switch as in "The Truman Show" and "Serenity."


I want to watch The Truman Show again. I'm halfway through first viewing of Serenity. (I switched it off when his ex-wife came on to him, thinking: "Go on then, get on with it. I'm going to sleep." But I will come back to it.  )


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## Sapioit (Jun 2, 2021)

http://dersu4krvz7v7.cloudfront.net...in-Royston-surrounding-area-A1_final-copy.pdf
I uploaded the PDF, for safekeeping.



usselo said:


> > If a church bell is rung after a wedding it is a bad omen for the couple.
> 
> 
> Yes! Why? What were 'bells' before they were sugar-coated into tinkly tonkly musical instruments? Why are there so many accounts of monks hiding bells underground and of enraged villagers hating them, throwing them down wells?
> ...


6. They could be used to stun the humans, kind of like how a flashbang stuns humans using both sound and a blinding light, but without the blinding light. And since weddings are often gatherings of people and their families, then the food is already crowded together and ready for the picking.
7. Brainwashing used by the secret services of today often uses catch phrases and certain words as triggers, for different behaviours. For a period of time, the armies used flags, and then fireworks when there was no visibility for flags, to communicate. The same could have been done with the bells, to activate infiltrators to attack from the inside. Even just opening the city gates for the invaders/attackers on someone's wedding date to would turn that day from a happy day into a bad day.
8. In mainstream history, bells were often rang when the settlement was attacked, so you can imagine that would turn a happy day possibly followed by the first night of the two into a sad day possibly without the wife or with the wife's first taken by someone else by force or without the husband.
9. Those could be used to heal humans or to damage humans. In many cultures, the night of the marriage is expected to be the first night of the newlyweds, so a bell which rang could lead to health defects for the newborns, or could somehow damage the link between the newlyweds in ways which might seem more esoteric than scientific.
10. It might be a case of using the number of bells to signify the price, or the quantity, or both (with a break in between). In binary, every second on-or-off signal given is double the value of the last, so taking into account two bell ringings to signal the frequency of the ringing and when to start counting, one could easily calculate numbers. Different frequencies could be used to switch from counting produce to counting price, or the other way around. The values of each ringing in binary would be like this, for example: 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, etc.
11. It could signal the arrival of clients, for the scattered employees to start bringing in the produce, which would lead to produce being consumed, which would lead to more produce needing processing to fill up the space.
12. If weddings were done in the nature, possibly with wild animals around (like in the "elven" fantasy stories of today), then a loud ringing bell would create a bit of problems, most likely scattering some if not all of those animals. 
13. It could also sound like the dwarven smithies being in use by enough smiths to work in sync to make such a sound, which could spell troubles. I wonder if there are legends about that.

Speaking of dwarfs, what are the relevant myths about them, and how different are they from the modern understanding of dwarves?

Speaking of blacksmiths, aside for being known to make tools for managing cattle (like the iconic branding iron), what other relevant legends can you find about smiths? I mean, aside from working near flames all day. I know children (and I think particularly red-headed children) were made to piss into the foundry where metal was made, and the mainstream media promotes that as a truth. I wonder what the usefulness of that would be. And would those kids be human kids, or kids of giants, or giant kids of giants?


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## wise (Jun 2, 2021)

This is not a subject in which I am an expert. However, I have words to say on this subject based on my general life knowledge, and I think it may contribute.

Humans are not physically different from other animals. Man is physically an animal. But when we bring the subject to intellectual, spiritual and intelligence, we see that there is a great gap among man and animal.

This situation is against the rules of mind and physics and the ordinary flow of life. The following situations are more likely; Man was created by either choosing between ready-made animal bodies and adding intelligence to it, or by the animal-inspired incarnation of an already existing intelligent being. These two are more or less the same thing.

However, life is more likely to be a Truman show than anything else. In this case, it makes sense that everyone here is trolling me, which is not nice.


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## Citezenship (Jun 2, 2021)

_View: https://youtu.be/0NBrce-ZHi0_


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## usselo (Jun 2, 2021)

Citezenship said:


> _View: https://youtu.be/0NBrce-ZHi0_



More like a Konzentrationslager.



wise said:


> However, life is more likely to be a Truman show than anything else. In this case, it makes sense that everyone here is trolling me, which is not nice.



There's so much trolling, it's part of what makes the board fun. Over time, you get to see if your troll-detection skills are developing (or not). There's a lot to notice but pointing it out potentially influences it, so why do that? Outside of the board I notice how easily evidence comes my way and ponder how that is. Is my event model becoming more accurate? Or is it just sophisticated 3D trolling? Dunno. To try to escape from it is to pretend there is a place where you have similar quality puzzles to work on, along with more control over the environment. However, in my experience, pretty much every environment is filled with trolls. The only difference is that in other environments there was a pretence of a financial or other benefit from engaging with it.

A positive way to look at trolling here, and the strange - possibly trolled - coincidences that occur outside of here, is that it is like a flight simulator. You think you are landing a 737 but really you are playing against computers. Regardless, you are developing your skillset. That may be useful at some time in some way. If you take offence because it isn't 'real', what else are you going to do? Watch the computer-generated faces reporting fake news on the TV and pretend you are engaging with a troll-free version of the 'truth'?

Treat it all as a simulator and use it as simulator, as an exercise machine.

Heads up: the next part of this post contains a forensic assessment of biology and butchery scenarios. If you're squeamish, you may want to skip this.

Picking up on taboos as obstacles that disrupt our ability to process evidence... Some taboos are universal, such as "authority's statements are always correct, regardless of the evidence". That's because these taboos are not cultural. They are programmed into humans.

Other taboos are cultural, local or even domestic. They still get in the way of understanding, but they can be overcome. When me and some mates visited the communal toilet at Ephesus, we struggled with the practicalities. Especially the men. We stood facing them, we sat on them, we squatted on them... We went through the motions and they just didn't make sense.

But we couldn't figure out what they were actually for.

We knew something was wrong because their dimensions were wrong and because the way we were told they were used was wrong. If you have never seen these things in real life, your taboos may inhibit your envisioning capabilities. There isn't much I can do about that but - in case it helps - here's a quick guide to communal toilets and their usage as archaeologists see it.


_A communal toilet. Key features holes, slots, gutter. And the remains of what was possibly a tiled wall to rear and above_


_Much easier to check your tersorium since they took out the end wall, don't you agree Coprolitus?_


_The basic usage proposition. Take your time; study it_​You find this image in various papers, with one captioning it: 'Conjectural'. I am desperate for a database of dimensions taken from known communal toilet facilities around the world. I presume archaeologists are too. Then they could reconstruct communal toilets and do the kind of 'Living History' that produces usable data and a career in television.

But absent dimensional data, we work with what we've got. What we've got is how archaeologists say communal toilets were used:


_Note the toilet seat holes have been enlarged so they look more practical; and the narrative-challenging slots have gone_​
There is so much to say about about this picture. From proto-scout uniforms to the depicted activities; to the idea that you drop in for a crap, finish up and then spend 30 minutes discussing last weekend's Circus Maximus races amid the noises and the stink. It's an insult to believe it: a form of trolling. Rather than parse the entire scene, and the variety of events that take place in toilets, ponder one label in this image: the tersorium.

That's a bunch of tersoriums - sponge-sticks - sitting in a dish of water. Apparently, these sponge-sticks were rinsed during use and re-used - as can be seen front-left in the image. Take that scene and run with it. Gallantus is telling you about some Coritani wench he's got his eye on while you lift up and go at your bum with a sponge-stick. Occasionally, you peer at the sponge to see how clean you are. Now imagine this in the slotted version of communal toilets. Are you supposed to prod the stick through the front slot that is provided in slotted communal toilets, while avoiding smearing your manhood? Do you keep moving this crap-smeared thing back and forth past your dangly bits each time you inspect and rinse it?

And when you are done? Chuck it down the toilet hole or give it a rinse and toss it back into the tersorium dish? If not, they are presumably being replaced periodically? Or did you bring your personal sponge-stick in with you, perhaps stowed away in a natty tersorium pouch?

It's ridiculous.

But there is a clue to the mystery - at least to the sponge-sticks part of the mystery. It's in the image below:


_"Well known from literary sources"_​
A lot of our 'facts' are from 'literary sources'. That's why, collectively, they're called 'his-story'.

My guess is that butchers used sponge-sticks to sop up blood from the gutter. Then offered them to their customers' fascinated kids.

'Penny blood sticks' - the toffee apple of their day.

If you think that conjecture is ridiculous, consider the image below:


_Anus scraper. Apparently, these were used when sponge sticks were unavailable_​
Yes.

However, if you looked closely at the human skull shown in the Narborough Bone Mill post, you may have noticed it had been prepared. It had been sliced away from the lower half of the skull. It looks to have been separated along the sphenofrontal suture, the sphenoparietal suture, the squamousal suture and then - revealingly - through both parietal bones.


A_ clean cut, marred by subsequent edge-fractures and wear_​
Sutures may separate through decomposition, although they usually don't, which is why archaeologists find complete skulls and why tourists see a complete skull hanging from a meathook in Portugal's Evora ossuary. However, parietal plates are strong: they don't self-separate where there is no suture.

So, the scenario seems to have been: dead (hopefully) prey lying on its back, then a single chop downwards, aimed at the bridge of the nose, down along the three named sutures, and then down through both parietal bones. It was likely a sharp blade, a big blade, and wielded by someone - or some thing - that was very strong.

And when we remember that the chambers in communal toilet abbatoirs would have accumulated heads, we can plausibly model a scenario in which the heads were collected, opened in the manner the Narborough skull suggests, and the whole bowl of brains handed to the customer along with a convenient scallop scraper. Could have been a holiday treat; could have been the day to day. The dictionary definition of 'scullery' suggests it was the day to day.

Sounds implausible, but the first time I ate mussels, they arrived on the breakfast table in a huge tureen. With a napkin. No knife or fork. The proprietor gestured we should use one mussel's hinged shell to extract the meat from the other mussels. It works; there's nothing unwieldy about using a shell to scrape soft meat out of another shell. I admit I haven't seen it done with human brains. Though I've seen TV shows do something similar.

In contrast, there's nothing wieldy about using a scallop shell to scrape your bum clean. Personally, I wouldn't do it with a mussel shell, let alone a scallop shell. As always, different opinions are welcome.

Scallop shells have another sinister aspect. They have an odd way of becoming  symbols of institutions and corporations that profit from encouraging people to travel. Even to travel a heck of a long way from home while not giving their full name to other pilgrims along the way. Which I imagine makes the occasional disappearance that bit easier to manage.

Even after dmitrij_an and pro_vladimir openly stated communal toilets were slaughterhouses, I struggled with it. It took kbogam's imagery to drive the point home.

That said, his choice of curvy, near-naked girls puzzled me. Why not model it with children?

Eventually, the penny dropped. Russia has taboos against depicting child cruelty. In contrast, child cruelty is mandatory in Britain. Or, as a Polish friend commented:



> In Britain, dogs get more love, more respect *and* have more legal rights than children.



And bladed weapons? In Russia, it is perfectly normal to see glamorous women swinging bladed weapons.

You think I'm making this up?

In Britain, it is a discretionary criminal offence to carry - in public - a bladed tool longer than three inches (75mm).

In contrast, if kbogam popped into his local wine bar, he would likely have encountered this:


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aqn7Umb-_Yh_

So, Russians can play with swords in public but depicting child slaughter in communal toilets is taboo. In contrast, the average Brit can't carry a usable knife, let alone a sword. And they don't need to model human slaughterhouses because, beneath their feet, Britain's many authorities have already built them.

To lighten things up a bit. It's fun to accuracy-check the drawings in academic papers about communal toilets. The image above showing a woman in sandals flushing a toilet floor with a well-aimed jug of water was a laugh. If you've ever cleaned public toilets, you'll know why. So was this one, which while obviously not about communal toilets, does put the finger on problems with the accuracy of archaeologists' illustrations:


_Watch that left hand, lady_​
Hope she washed it before preparing dinner in the scullery.

_Edit: clarifies trolling comment, removes gratuitous taunt_


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## Sapioit (Jun 4, 2021)

usselo said:


> Hope she washed it before preparing dinner in the scullery.


Even the name skull_ery_ should raise an eyebrow.


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## usselo (Jun 5, 2021)

Citezenship said:


> Not only why but by whom and when and did we build them or find them.


I just came across a comment relevant to these great questions. From Martin Smith's _Stamford Myths and Legends_, 1998, p51:



> _In the many religious houses the inmates were engaged in removing their sacred vessels and relics into their secret chambers, or building them up in subterranean passages which undermined the town.
> E. Bentley Wood, 1461, An Epilogue in the History of Stamford, 1889_
> 
> Many ancient towns in England were originally built with a network of underground tunnels connecting the churches, guildhalls, monasteries and nunneries. These were used as retreat in times of attack and for clandestine communication between the religious houses.



I think E Bentley Wood was writing about ecclesiastic preparations under Stamford during the War of the Roses alleged events. Have not seen a copy to confirm.

Smith quotes E Bentley Wood and then starts the chapter with his own comment - 'Many ancient towns in England were originally built with a network of underground tunnels' - as though he knows for sure. If so, how does he know? How does he know the tunnels were built at the same time as the towns? (Which is what he and Bentley Smith seem to imply.) Why does Smith deny tunnels and - further in - call them impracticable - after first saying what the tunnels were built for?

So Smith, like Mike Burgess of Hidden East Anglia fame, and Ruth Crook of Grantham meat-hook fame, was dismissive of England's tunnels.

From 1776 and the Airports according to Trump



> Much "truth" is presented to those with eyes to see and ears to hear.



'Did we build them or find them' is another great question. Maybe the answer depends on how you define 'we'. Where does 'other' begin?



Sapioit said:


> Even the name skull_ery_ should raise an eyebrow.


Yes, indeed!

Your additions to the earlier 'buried bells' comment helped me find more reports about that phenomenon. That led me to another connection. Formatting that now for a post hopefully in the next couple of days.


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## Citezenship (Jun 5, 2021)

I guess it would be prudent to mention the word skull-duggery.

This stuff almost writes it self.

Definition of SKULDUGGERY

Interesting that it has no etymology.

Here is the ngram chart

Google Books Ngram Viewer

Maybe a little clue as to when.


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## Starman (Jun 6, 2021)

usselo said:


> It's a shame Pavel Verkhov AKA Alexander Alekseev AKA kbogam chose to demonstrate a human slaughter using curvaceous, near-naked young women. In my opinion, he might better have caught the head-trapping functionality of communal toilets' design if he had modelled it using three to 12 year olds. Regardless, the images in his page show how communal toilets might have been used as the halal human slaughterhouses some of us suspect they really were.
> ​



Though appreciated, the two naked ladies didn't use the facilities properly.  You're supposed to kneel and put your head all the way through the hole and downwards into the U shaped niche.  A heavy stone goes on top of the loo above your head and locks you into place.  The meat cleaver obviously chops down outside the loo, between it and your shoulders.  Your head conveniently stays inside the loo and there's less gore to clean up.  The cartoon was inaccurate.  Why is that?


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## usselo (Jun 6, 2021)

Citezenship said:


> I guess it would be prudent to mention the word skull-duggery.
> 
> This stuff almost writes it self.
> 
> ...


That ngram report is interesting isn't it.

What weaknesses are reported for the ngram tool? False positives, false negatives, environmental factors that skew it? Are there statements/analyses on that?

I've avoided using it, partly because it's Google and partly because I'm wary of letting the written word lead the analysis (I've become so distrustful of the written word I prefer to let physical evidence lead the analysis and look at the written word as a technique for explaining or propagandising the physical evidence, but that's just a personal preference.)

As I woke up this morning your and Sapioit's skullduggery and skullery comments came together as a very visual pun about 'skullduggery raising an eyebrow'. Cue image of skull being exhumed with an eyebrow clinging to it.

There's so many patterns poking out of this material, here's some I haven't had time to look into:


gypsies -> rag and bone man -> gypsum. And then an idea the board may have hosted before: Paris catacombs -> plaster of Paris (gypsum)


'St Marys churches' and 'St Michaels churches' patterns: St Marys churches crop up much more often and seem to be associated with the tunnel system and butchery infrastructure/death ('dispatches'); St Michaels crops up much less often, but seemingly associated with nunneries and therefore 'hatches'. The inverse of what you might expect if you think of St Michael as symbolic of a butcher.


clay pipes. Are they for smoking or moxibustion or supping with?

Dumping these here in case someone else is already noticing or wants to run with them. I really want to work up a post about Sheela na gig data.

Nice real world syncho: last night (Saturday) Michael Portillo Great Railway Journeys was showing water jet quarrying - as per some of the well-known Seattle regrade photos - in a Cornish porcelain quarry - the world's largest china clay quarry allegedly.


Starman said:


> Though appreciated, the two naked ladies didn't use the facilities properly.  You're supposed to kneel and put your head all the way through the hole and downwards into the U shaped niche.  A heavy stone goes on top of the loo above your head and locks you into place.  The meat cleaver obviously chops down outside the loo, between it and your shoulders.  Your head conveniently stays inside the loo and there's less gore to clean up.  The cartoon was inaccurate.  Why is that?


I've thrown in one idea about why that might have been and it will be interesting to see others.

Another is that we (dmitrij_an, Vladimir Mamzerev, kbogam, and latterly me) may be wrong about these structures being used as abattoirs. Though I suspect one or more of the Russian presenters of the theory had been briefed about what they were for.

Other ideas:


The top (the seat of the throne in conventional toilet morphology) as a (possibly food) preparation area, with the top holes being something like a waste disposal hole or a dispatch hole for 'ready to go' produce.
Another is that these facilities were designed to be flooded as part of processing something. The floor gutters then fit as draining/sluicing out/mopping out channels. The side holes and top holes may then be fluid level control or drain-offs for the processed fluids. The slots don't fit in unless the facility required a fast surface level rise, followed by a slower surface level rise, followed by an upper level threshold that must not be risen above. This is idea is not necessarily inconsistent with butchery products. Traipsing through tunnel material you do encounter a lot of clues that some parts of the infrastructure involved mixing blood (and possibly flesh) into water and distributing it. Keywords for this are; Rothwell, Rockwell, Rockefella (Rot + Quelle), holy well, chalybeate springs, etc.
Rot = Red
Quelle = Spring (as in fresh water)


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## Sapioit (Jun 6, 2021)

Citezenship said:


> I guess it would be prudent to mention the word skull-duggery.


Funnily enough, I misremembered that word as skull-thievery, which made me think of piracy, as in pirates, who wave as a flag a skull with two bones. Was that how merchandise was shipped, at least after one of the cataclysms? Was it how new wild hoomans were caught to be domesticated? Was it how the wild hoomans were caught to be consumed like wild boar? Probably both, with the young cattle saved for adding to the farm, the very young cattle as cherub, very few young male cattle for multiplication, young and old female cattle for multiplication, and the other cattle used as food.


usselo said:


> 'St Marys churches' and 'St Michaels churches' patterns: St Marys churches crop up much more often and seem to be associated with the tunnel system and butchery infrastructure/death ('dispatches'); St Michaels crops up much less often, but seemingly associated with nunneries and therefore 'hatches'. The inverse of what you might expect if you think of St Michael as symbolic of a butcher.


But it checks out, if you think of St Michael as the one doing the multiplication leading to hatchlings, and the tunnel system being St Mary's catac-womb being the tunnels. Speaking of, what would "catac" mean, in that case? Google says it means "down" in greek, which wouldn't make much sense, but it would make sense if you take into account the other meanings google gives it:

1. completely.
"cataclysm"
2. wrongly; badly.
"catachresis"
3. down; downwards.
"catadromous"
4. against; alongside.
"catapult"



Spoiler: Image of google's definition.









The following ideas make sense: 1) the complete results of the womb (complete gestation); 2) miscarriages, or "bad womb", possibly referring to (a) how those who cannot give birth are treated, and (2) what only people of lower status can end up as; 3) something which went down from the womb (same as 1, the result of the complete gestation); 4) the opposite of nunneries, which function alongside them, to harvest and process the produce.


usselo said:


> clay pipes. Are they for smoking or moxibustion or supping with?


Might be for sucking liquid, like a drinking straw. Maybe the saying to scramble your brain was because they literally did that, resulting in a soup or slurry.


usselo said:


> Another is that these facilities were designed to be flooded as part of processing something. The floor gutters then fit as draining/sluicing out/mopping out channels. The side holes and top holes may then be fluid level control or drain-offs for the processed fluids. The slots don't fit in unless the facility required a fast surface level rise, followed by a slower surface level rise, followed by an upper level threshold that must not be risen above. This is idea is not necessarily inconsistent with butchery products. Traipsing through tunnel material you do encounter a lot of clues that some parts of the infrastructure involved mixing blood (and possibly flesh) into water and distributing it. Keywords for this are; Rothwell, Rockwell, Rockefella (Rot + qwelle), holy well, chalybeate springs, etc.


Hypothetically, if it's not for processing meats, what _could_ it be for? Not trying to undermine the idea of butcheries, just wanting to see if they're multi-purpose. Maybe they had a different purpose, before the takeover which led to humans becoming cattle. Maybe we need a different perspective, to see things more accurately.

To quell means to end, so rock-quell and rock-a-feller might refer to ending something/someone with a rock, or ending with a rock (like freemasons getting stone buildings for free, for example), or even what came to be known as "rock bottom". Could be a catchword to let other knowledgeable ones know they remember the rock-bottom period. Or maybe it means they're the descendants of those who mined the planet, leaving behind canyons and mountains.


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## usselo (Jun 6, 2021)

Sapioit said:


> Funnily enough, I misremembered that word as skull-thievery, which made me think of piracy, as in pirates, who wave as a flag a skull with two bones. Was that how merchandise was shipped, at least after one of the cataclysms? Was it how new wild hoomans were caught to be domesticated? Was it how the wild hoomans were caught to be consumed like wild boar? Probably both, with the young cattle saved for adding to the farm, the very young cattle as cherub, very few young male cattle for multiplication, young and old female cattle for multiplication, and the other cattle used as food.
> 
> But it checks out, if you think of St Michael as the one doing the multiplication leading to hatchlings, and the tunnel system being St Mary's catac-womb being the tunnels. Speaking of, what would "catac" mean, in that case? Google says it means "down" in greek, which wouldn't make much sense, but it would make sense if you take into account the other meanings google gives it:
> 
> ...


Great associations. Pirates, yes, I've noted it too. Perhaps refined human lime was (is) worth its weight in gold. Perhaps the skull and crossbones is the global flag of advanced ceramics traders.

I've clarified the Rot + Quelle = Rockefella association in the post above to make it more obvious I was associating with the German word for 'spring'. It's pronounced something like 'Kvella'. Something like...

Perhaps a water-butchery process was about making soup. Which brings us back to the main diet of fabricants in Cloud Atlas. A key plot twist in that film is that a fabricant is shown a factory that turns fabricant dead into the fabricants' main food: soup. And - for anyone who has not seen the film - its fabricants go to their deaths thinking they are going to a religious exaltation.



Sapioit said:


> The following ideas make sense: 1) the complete results of the womb (complete gestation); 2) miscarriages, or "bad womb", possibly referring to (a) how those who cannot give birth are treated, and (2) what only people of lower status can end up as; 3) something which went down from the womb (same as 1, the result of the complete gestation); 4) the opposite of nunneries, which function alongside them, to harvest and process the produce.





> 3. down; downwards. "catadromous"



also caught my eye because I had just been going through descriptions of sheela na gigs, in which the people writing them up are obviously very struck by the many representations of seemingly soft tissue that is falling, or has fallen, from the sheela na gig's pudenda. I think part of their puzzlement (if that is what they were experiencing) is that they tend to think of sheela na gigs as fertility symbols, and what seems to be portrayals of afterbirth - or conceivably, miscarriages - doesn't directly reconcile with a fertility symbol.

'Soup' may be the answer. Or afterbirth smoothies. Available 24/7 at the sign of the Golden Cross.

_Edit: 'burgers' changed to 'smoothies'; link to first-person account_


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## Citezenship (Jun 6, 2021)

The examples given for cataclysm in the oxford dictionary have spiked my confirmation bias of the charts

In the existing orthodoxy, settler farming developed along a gradual, _cataclysm_-free road to capitalist agriculture.

Settler farming, farming settlers.

I could just be reading to far into that but that little voice at the back of my head screams, "they love to mock us at every chance".

Although I did learn a new word today.

hemoclysm - Wiktionary

Also might be nothing but sometimes i get hit with keyboard dyslexia and spell things wrongly, this has on occasion produce some wanted and some very unwanted results.

Anyway I misspelt clysm as clysum, and google interpreted that as Elysium. 

clysum at DuckDuckGo


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## usselo (Jun 6, 2021)

Citezenship said:


> Settler farming, farming settlers.
> 
> I could just be reading to far into that but that little voice at the back of my head screams, "they love to mock us at every chance".
> 
> ...


Hemoclysm - what a fab word! It has the same meaning as 'Senlac' - lake of blood - which is the name for the field in Battle, East Sussex, where the alleged Battle of Hastings was fought (no serious evidence has been found of the battle). That reminded me of another set of word associations:

Sen (blood) -> sin -> saint


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## Citezenship (Jun 7, 2021)

usselo said:


> Sen (blood) -> sin -> saint


The river Siene,(Sen, french), runs strait to the heart of the Paris catacombs....


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## Starman (Jun 7, 2021)

Citezenship said:


> The river Siene,(Sen, french), runs strait to the heart of the Paris catacombs....



How come so many bones in the Paris catacombs, stacked so neatly?  Same for other ossuaries.  The thinking in this thread would lead you to believe that these bones would have been ground up for fertilizer or some other utilitarian use.  Were some people just interested in the meat, with bones being just some kind of leftover?  If it's about food, you'd think they'd harvest the marrow.  Was soup making the way these bones got so clean?

The stacking of bones done in an orderly way speaks more to an aesthetic, maybe even a type of honoring of the dead, and not just a throw away approach.

Can you kill people and eat them and still have an after death ritual that honors them in some way, maybe just to absolve you from a guilty conscience?  You know; the scapegoat scenario.  Maybe there's a segue here in recognizing that the killing and eating was a 'sacred' ritual and had the side benefit of releasing you from your anxieties, since you cast those off into the souls of those you murdered. 

Those "christian" churches sure had a racket going.  Up to no good.  More luciferian inversion.


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## usselo (Jun 7, 2021)

Citezenship said:


> The river Siene,(Sen, french), runs strait to the heart of the Paris catacombs....


Ah, nice one.


Starman said:


> How come so many bones in the Paris catacombs, stacked so neatly?  Same for other ossuaries.  The thinking in this thread would lead you to believe that these bones would have been ground up for fertilizer or some other utilitarian use.  Were some people just interested in the meat, with bones being just some kind of leftover?  If it's about food, you'd think they'd harvest the marrow.  Was soup making the way these bones got so clean?
> 
> The stacking of bones done in an orderly way speaks more to an aesthetic, maybe even a type of honoring of the dead, and not just a throw away approach.
> 
> ...


Excellent - I hadn't computed the 'show respect for the victim' aspect into bone displays. At least, not respect beyond the requirement to seduce sentient prey into cooperating with their role in the catering process.





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Even the proprietors' explanation for their ossuaries seems more about practicalities than respect. It is - generalising somewhat - that 'graveyards were overflowing so kindly monks set to with their shovels and provided the necessary space in their cellars.'

I probably would have agreed with the 'kindly monks' explanation or even the 'respect-after-eating' explanation. But not after I saw photographs of the human bones so far recovered at Narborough Bone Mill.

'Eating and honoring' presents another problem: it is an already-much-discussed scenario and, as such, it does not have to recognised. It merely has to be selected from the shelf of available scenarios, and adopted.

And I didn't think we were coming here to develop our shopping skills.

The thread is imbalanced in favour of humans as food. That is partly because its origins lie in someone else's cannibalism thread, partly because there is more evidence for humans being seen as - and processed into - food.

We seem to have arrived at the concept of 'blood soup' in the last few posts. In the 1980s, Yeah Yeah Noh - alleged favourite band of British DJ John Peel - wrote an ode to it:


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## Oracle (Jun 8, 2021)

This from our good friends at the Smithsonian Institute;


> Blood was procured as fresh as possible, while it was still thought to contain the vitality of the body. This requirement made it challenging to acquire. The 16th century German-Swiss physician Paracelsus believed blood was good for drinking, and one of his followers even suggested taking blood from a living body. While that doesn’t seem to have been common practice, the poor, who couldn’t always afford the processed compounds sold in apothecaries, could gain the benefits of cannibal medicine by standing by at executions, paying a small amount for a cup of the still-warm blood of the condemned. “The executioner was considered a big healer in Germanic countries,” says Sugg. “He was a social leper with almost magical powers.” For those who preferred their blood cooked, a 1679 recipe from a Franciscan apothecary describes how to make it into marmalade.
> 
> Rub fat on an ache, and it might ease your pain. Push powdered moss up your nose, and your nosebleed will stop. If you can afford the King’s Drops, the float of alcohol probably helps you forget you’re depressed—at least temporarily. In other words, these medicines may have been incidentally helpful—even though they worked by magical thinking, one more clumsy search for answers to the question of how to treat ailments at a time when even the circulation of blood was not yet understood.
> 
> ...


The Gruesome History of Eating Corpses as Medicine

Edit to add; With regards to skullduggery, there was also this practice back in medieval times.

Skulls for sale: English conquest and cannibal medicines


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## usselo (Jun 11, 2021)

Oracle said:


> This from our good friends at the Smithsonian Institute;
> 
> The Gruesome History of Eating Corpses as Medicine
> 
> ...


I planned to get into this after posting evidence that medieval people living near monasteries and priories were very unhappy with their 'beneficent' neighbours. Because of monastic tendencies to:

charge high land rents
steal land (fencing others' land, rewriting tenancy contracts into ownership contracts)
tax roads (by building tollbooths), and
violence.
Protesting locals could be beaten up or hung from abbot-owned gallows. Officials who attempted to restore order were met by promises of reform, by outright lies and - sometimes - by well-armed 'monks'. I planned to show that the modern perception of 'good' monks is out-of-whack; the result of zealous information management.

However, presenting that case takes a lot of space and Oracle's medicinal cannibalism post leap-frogs us to less well-known ecclesiastic profit lines. So let's look at those instead.

We start with prostitution, then move on to blood harvesting (virginal and non-virginal).

First, credits: the film clips in this post were taken from these two reports about Spanish brothels:





Pay attention to the signage: it is directed at passing traffic, clearly signals the product offer, and highlights the entrance door.

From a distance:


_Roadside brothel in Spain_​Above: Catch the eye of passing trade...




_Product offer should be unambiguous_​
Above: Signal the product offer as clearly as cultural norms permit.





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_In Spanish, 'club' rhymes with 'boob'_

Below: As the customer approaches the premises, showcase the product offer and identify the entrance:





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_Showcase the entrance. Make it unmissable_

Below: Reassure hesitant customers and close the sale:





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_Pimp that entrance door. And - like the Church - disassociate yourself from the daily grind_

Now let's look at sheela na gigs - those mysterious 'fertility symbol' carvings found around old churches, priories and castles:

From a distance:


_Stanton St Quintin, Wiltshire, England (copyright John Harding)_​Above: Catch the eye of passing trade... many sheela na gigs are positioned high on exterior tower and nave walls.


_Ballinaclogh, County Tipperary, Ireland (copyright Conleth Manning)_​
Above: Signal the product offer as clearly as cultural norms permit.

Below: Three wedge-shaped sheela na gigs, probably keystones from arched doorways:


_Rahara, County Roscommon, Ireland (copyright Gay Cannon)_


_Scregg, County Roscommon, Ireland (copyright Barbara Freitag)_


_Kilmokea, County Wexford, Ireland_​
As the customer approaches the premises, showcase the product offer and identify the entrance. Close the sale...

For raw data, we turn to Barbara Freitag's catalogue of 167 Irish and British sheela na gigs in _Sheela-Na-Gigs - Unravelling an Enigma_. There we find:

67 of the known sheela na gig carvings are thought to have been repositioned at some time, leaving:
100 *possibly* still in their original position.
Of these 100:

33 are positioned inside
67 are positioned outside
Of the 67 that are outside:

26 were first found positioned high on an outside wall
23 were first found positioned above an entrance door (including three that appear to have been keystones at the top of archways)
16 were first found positioned on a gatepost
What follows are samples of individual sheela na gig location reports. Feel free to skip over these next two purple-coloured lists - they're only here to give texture:

Sheela na gigs positioned above doors:

Figure formerly placed above gateway
Figure on key-stone of the arch over main doorway
Figure situated above main entrance door at considerable height
Above doorway on outer face of S wall
Figure... on E impost of N doorway of the larger of two churches
Very high up on wall in masonry E over doorway
On S respond of arch at entrance
Situated on N impost of chancel arch.
On outer wall above N door
Figure was placed above doorway
Placed high up above door
Keystone over archway
Originally from doorway of medieval church
Sheela na gigs positioned high on external wall:

Figure situated on... SW facing wall... some 10 m above ground level
Figure... at NW corner of nave facing road
Figure... on wall, above entrance doorway, some 4 m above ground
High on E face
Figure c. 7 m over ground level
Figure... at considerable height, just below level of fourth floor.
Situated some 14 m up in masonry
Figure overlooks Clashawley river and Watergate Bridge.
Situated very high on E wall
Figure situated some 2–3 m up... on outer wall
About 6 m above ground level in wall of tower
Figure on second floor... above opening in S wall.
High up on W wall of (church) tower
On apex stone crowning W gable of medieval parish church
High up on... S face
High on S facing wall
At top of wall... this was an outside wall
Figure originally in outer N chancel wall where it served as cornerstone, 1.5 m above ground, overlooking graveyard.
Figure situated... at SE corner of nave on outside some 2.8 m above ground level.
Situated on N external wall... c. 2.5 m from ground.
On W wall of eleventh-century tower at third floor level
High up on outside W wall of N transept, above window
Below clock on S side of tower.
Set on central panel of S wall of tower.
Believed to have come from E gable of old church... described in... 1834/5 as ‘a grotesque figure in freestone’ projecting from wall.
That last one brings to mind Rob Trubshaw, in _Rutland Village by Village, 2011 edition_, p25, where he describes a female stone-carved figure found face down and being used as a doorstep at Braunston, Rutland, England:



> the massive stone 'base' suggests she once stuck out horizontally, face down, from near the top of the tower. Such decorative figures are known as 'hunky punks' in Somerset, where they are known to date to the thirteenth and fourteenth centuries. The word 'punk' at this time had connotations of a whore; Quaintree Hall House nearby on the green takes its name from 'queen tree' and, again, until recent decades, the word 'queen' also had a double meaning as whore.



Draw your own conjectures.

If you're struggling, you can even compare the 'good works' of the Church with a brothel manager's attitude to his job:





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_We do good work!_

We already made a case that ecclesiasts were active in the business of 'hatches'. What might medieval brothels have to do with famine? And with harvesting human parts for medicine and cosmetics?

Famine first. We're already familiar with the sheela na gig below from this cannibalism thread post's discussion of _The Time Machine_'s Eloi.


_Elui from Easthorpe, Essex, England (Source: Images of Lust, Jerman)_​
This time, look at her ribs.

Most sheela na gig images depict women like this: thin with visible ribs. It is probably significant that their creators took the time to carve ribs on what are otherwise very primitive carvings. Only one or two are known to depict the physiques of well nourished women.

Why?

The Great Hunger and the Celtic Gene | Irish America discusses hemochromatosis - a disorder characteristic of survivors of famine. The page focuses on the Great Irish Famine. Bear in mind this IHASFEMR thread grew out of evidence that North-West Europe went through a series of flood-famine cycles starting approx 1,000 years ago and that the British floods have been propagandised into purely politico-ecclesiastic events.

Hemochromatosis is:



> a fatal disorder [where the body builds up excess iron] that compromises the liver and pancreas, and results in bronzing or hyperpigmentation of the skin.
> 
> Individuals possessing the gene for hemochromatosis would have been advantaged in the face of limited dietary iron availability and delivery. Those without the gene would have died in disproportionately large numbers since iron is one of the most critical elements within the body.



The HFE gene that renders populations particularly susceptible to hemochromatosis:



> has documented a remarkably high incidence in the Celtic population, leading to the description of the HFE gene as the Celtic Gene.
> 
> The Great Famine with its life-destroying absence of adequate nutrition magnified the importance of possession of the HFE gene for hemochromatosis.



Female famine survivors tend to show hemochromatosis later in life (10-20 years later) than male famine survivors. Because women periodically hemorrhage iron through menstruation and occasionally through childbirth.

Discussing possible sheela na gig depictions of free-flowing menstruation, Freitag cites research that says post-menarche female human stock require 'at least' twice as much iron as men. And that most women were - at best - anemic in medieval times.

*Summary:*

Famine survivors were more likely to have the iron-retaining HFE gene (the Celtic Gene).
Women were more likely to suffer from iron deficiency (anemia) than men *during famine*.
Surviving women were less likely to suffer hemochromatosis than surviving men *after famine*.
Most known sheela na gig images are from Ireland and Britain, though there are a few finds (and suspected finds) in France, Germany, Austria and Switzerland. In Ireland and Britain, the distribution of known finds is:


_Sheela na gig finds in Ireland (Source: Freitag)_


_Sheela na gig finds in Britain (Source: Freitag)_​
Both maps from Barbara Freitag's _Sheela-na-gigs - Unravelling an Enigma_

The evidence and circumstances not only support the Smithsonian's claim that fresh virgin's blood was in demand, but that at times any source of nutritional iron was in demand, and that - sometimes - any form of nutrition was in demand.

The fact that women produce iron-rich blood products through their adult life and during childbirth must have been attractive to farmers of human products. Especially during times of famine. They had a profit motive for herding women - especially virginal women - into centres suitable for regular blood harvesting.


_Does my bum look big in this?_​
This 1974 image is of the inexplicably large vaults excavated beneath the toilets (in medieval-speak: the 'rere-dorter') at St Michael's Priory, Stamford, England - a nunnery housing 40 nuns (Google Maps), (Google Streetview). Source is the collection of images at: Plate 5: 12th-Century Monastic Remains | British History Online

The vault was nearly ten feet (3m) high. See:
St Michael's Priory rere-dorter, Stamford, Lincolnshire
and
St Michael's Priory rere-dorter, Stamford - 1007811 | Historic England

It's possible - even probable - that Stamford's nuns were composting their crap. So they would need to get under there with a wheelbarrow.

But ten feet?

Perhaps they sold compost at the roadside. However, economic theory says it makes more sense to 'add value' by selling the surplus vegetables they grew in their compost, along with prepared meals and hospitality to travellers and sailors (Stamford was a major medieval east coast port). Given that virgin's blood was in demand and (some) sheela na gig images depict 'bloody flux', can we speculate that St Michael's nunnery's massive toilet vaults are evidence of the working space required to collect and process a premium-priced, iron-rich human product? One that only nunneries could offer?

That's the medicinal side. It's not a big step to consider herding and harvesting of humans for cosmetics, just as American indians warned us (see section 3).


_Taghboy, County Roscommon, Ireland (Copyright: Gay Cannon)_​
High on top of a church gable wall, the object beneath the sheela na gig at Taghboy, Ireland, is catalogued as 'amniotic sac ... partially lying on the ground'. That's not what it looks like to me but then I haven't inspected it closely. And there are around nine sheela na gigs where there seems no doubt that the 'falling mass' depicted between the legs is either afterbirth or menstrual fluid. It can also be seen - just - in the Rahara and Kilmokea sheela na gig images further above.

However, there were probably many more. Researchers often report the area between the legs of many sheela na gigs has been severely defaced.

What do we have here?

We may have menstrual fluid harvesting centres.
We may have afterbirth harvesting centres.
We may have abortion clinics. (It's worth reading up on medieval abortifacients and the cultural toings and froings around them)
We may have all three combined.
We also have evidence of intense popular rage over their activities: destruction of images, destruction of churches, monasteries, priories, nunneries - coupled with flood and mudflood.

How did the farmers of humanity respond? Did management and workforce rebrand into our current Church? Or did they migrate to somewhere less... resentful? Or both?

Do we have any clues?





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A_llegations about a brothel manager_

Do the allegations in the clip give us clues about where hated, flooded farmer-managers of humans would migrate to? Summarising the allegations:

Money laundering
Tax evasion
Good lawyers
With expertise in products like:

Pharmaceuticals
Cosmetics
Banking
Time management, time-pieces (Spanish word for 'clock': 'reloj', Portuguese word for 'clock': 'relógio')
Red crosses on white backgrounds and white crosses on red backgrounds
Hosting venues noted for elite arrogance
Symbolic use of the phoneme 'Ch'
Chocolate (think 'butter fat', as in 'butter crosses', 'butter markets', and 'sacamantecas')
With a love of geographic features like:

High ground safe from flooding
An immediate post-1540 flood statue dedicated to eating babies (cherubs)
Where might that be?



_Kindlifresserbrunnen, Bern, Switzerland (Google Maps), (Google Streetview)._​


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## Starman (Jun 12, 2021)

usselo said:


> I planned to get into this after posting evidence that medieval people living near monasteries and priories were very unhappy with their 'beneficent' neighbours. Because of monastic tendencies to:
> 
> charge high land rents
> steal land (fencing others' land, rewriting tenancy contracts into ownership contracts)
> ...





I have to say there is a lot of dot connecting going on in this thread.  The subject is disturbing.  I had no idea that this behavior was so widespread in the past.  For me, it's similar to waking up to the general upside down luciferian nature of our world.  The world we thought we lived in is not the world that is going on around us.  That's the big shocker, maybe even more than the tradition of harvesting and eating people and their body fluids.  The fact that this has been so well hidden from us is almost a bigger pisser for me.  How is it that we can bury this information so well, even though there is a lot of evidence to show us otherwise? 

Of course it's because we have taboos about such subjects.  In the same way it's also taboo to see our controllers behind the curtain scheming against us.  So what is it with this denial to see and understand the truth?  Are we under a spell?? 

Are we just stupid or is it that we are easily programmed?  People are walking around in a fog!  What's the matter with us?

The last thing I wanted to say;  this disgusting world of poverty and starvation and cannibalism and human farming doesn't comport with my vision of enlightened culture with star forts and grand architecture and massive geometric food gardens to feed the people.  We are talking about two entirely different civilizations here.  You can't have an illustrious culture at the same time as a depraved fake christian church running baby harvesting operations (and worse), can you?    IDK, perhaps you can...

So, did these cultures exist at different times or did they exist in different places at the same time?  Was the uplifted one before an earth catastrophe and the depraved one after? 

Or are we exploring two different time lines, each culture running concomitantly but in a separate universe/dimension?  A separate SH thread for that question I know, but had to bring it up...

My head is spinning.


----------



## solarbard (Jun 12, 2021)

Starman said:


> I have to say there is a lot of dot connecting going on in this thread.  The subject is disturbing.  I had no idea that this behavior was so widespread in the past.  For me, it's similar to waking up to the general upside down luciferian nature of our world.  The world we thought we lived in is not the world that is going on around us.  That's the big shocker, maybe even more than the tradition of harvesting and eating people and their body fluids.  The fact that this has been so well hidden from us is almost a bigger pisser for me.  How is it that we can bury this information so well, even though there is a lot of evidence to show us otherwise?
> 
> Of course it's because we have taboos about such subjects.  In the same way it's also taboo to see our controllers behind the curtain scheming against us.  So what is it with this denial to see and understand the truth?  Are we under a spell??
> 
> ...


Just a thought. If cattle ever become sapient and humans go extinct, cattle may think the same about *their* predecessors. These creatures may not have been evil at all, just hungry. They may even have provided for us with these massive gardens and such until they...perhaps went extinct? Or had a religious/cultural shift that made them abandon their former lifestyle and go elsewhere?


----------



## usselo (Jun 13, 2021)

Starman said:


> I have to say there is a lot of dot connecting going on in this thread.  The subject is disturbing.  I had no idea that this behavior was so widespread in the past.  For me, it's similar to waking up to the general upside down luciferian nature of our world.  The world we thought we lived in is not the world that is going on around us.  That's the big shocker, maybe even more than the tradition of harvesting and eating people and their body fluids.  The fact that this has been so well hidden from us is almost a bigger pisser for me.  How is it that we can bury this information so well, even though there is a lot of evidence to show us otherwise?
> 
> Of course it's because we have taboos about such subjects.  In the same way it's also taboo to see our controllers behind the curtain scheming against us.  So what is it with this denial to see and understand the truth?  Are we under a spell??
> 
> ...


It *is* disturbing. However, we have to deal with our taboos if we are to process all the evidence.

1. Are we stupid? What's the matter with us?
We're not stupid. We are programmed to be loyal to authority. The loyalty loop over-rides intelligent thought (regardless of how intelligent you are) if certain conditions are detected. That is: if the circuits in the brain responsible for rational processing start to identify problems with authority's assertions, the loyalty loop 'trips' the brain. The brain then abandons rational thinking. It drops into 'obedience mode'. It looks to me as though someone programmed Isaac Asimov's Second Law of Robotics - "A robot will obey a XXX..." - into us but also incorporated  experience of programming in real-world situations. Ie, they seem to have asked themselves: how should obedience be actioned? By freezing all motor functions? By resetting memories of the situation prior to the 'trip'? By altering beliefs? And, after its loyalty loop 'trips', how should the human perceive its own loss of rationality?

2. Aspects of our culture are amazing. But to chickens, sheep, pigs, cows? If they were more sentient we would have to fool them into cooperating with being harvested. Probably by creating deceitful rituals for them like the clip in https://stolenhistory.net/threads/evidence-humans-were-created-and-traded-as-slaves-food-entertainment-and-material-resources-ihasfemr.5379/post-100382.

Who's culture was it? Really? Whose books do we read? Were they written by humans or by owners of humans?


solarbard said:


> Just a thought. If cattle ever become sapient and humans go extinct, cattle may think the same about *their* predecessors. These creatures may not have been evil at all, just hungry. They may even have provided for us with these massive gardens and such until they...perhaps went extinct? Or had a religious/cultural shift that made them abandon their former lifestyle and go elsewhere?


That is the question!


----------



## Citezenship (Jun 13, 2021)

I think it is no coincidence that things seem to be set up in such a "farming" way, snout to tail if you will.

As with most types of farming there is little prophet in a single line of produce, to minimise waste and take advantage from all angles including physical(body), mind(thought) and soul(spi-ritual), these all offer a particular form of nourishment/energy.

For some reason reading through this thread brings this video to my mind or at least the concept talked about.


_View: https://youtu.be/gMtrPFjTNQg_


----------



## Sapioit (Jun 16, 2021)

usselo said:


> Sen (blood) -> sin -> saint


Saint sounds similar to taint, so saint might have come from mixing sin + taint.


Starman said:


> The subject is disturbing


You can say that again.



Starman said:


> Of course it's because we have taboos about such subjects.  In the same way it's also taboo to see our controllers behind the curtain scheming against us.  So what is it with this denial to see and understand the truth?  Are we under a spell??


Taboos are also effective tools of control.



Starman said:


> Are we just stupid or is it that we are easily programmed?  People are walking around in a fog!  What's the matter with us?


Now more than ever, I think, for most humans alive.



Starman said:


> So, did these cultures exist at different times or did they exist in different places at the same time?  Was the uplifted one before an earth catastrophe and the depraved one after?
> 
> Or are we exploring two different time lines, each culture running concomitantly but in a separate universe/dimension?  A separate SH thread for that question I know, but had to bring it up...


I'm inclined to think that's more likely the case. And, paired with the Mandella Effect and the spiritual people a few years ago claiming those who can be saved will be saved from the downfall of this world by being moved into a different world, as well as with the biblical stories of the end times and heaven and hell, as well as the sci-fi and fantasy literature depicting a few possibilities related to uplifting and filtering, makes me think we might be experiencing a period after multiple worlds were merged together, while the people in those worlds were shuffled according to where they fit best, before the worlds will separate once again, effectively filtering good and evil, enlightened, and unenlightened (and that means good enlightened in one set of worlds, good unenlightened in another set of worlds, bad unenlightened in another set of worlds, and bad enlightened in yet another set of worlds).

Which might raise the need to think more about ways to fix the wrongs of society, and how they could possibly be fixed, and how a near-utopic, utopic, and heavenly society would function and look like. I mean, they say "the devil is in the details", but that's not the only place it is in, so I think making a space, no matter how real or unreal or imaginary, where the devil cannot get, or where the devil would need the most effort to get in, could help towards making such a space/place a reality, even if we do not get to become part of it, because it could lead to us getting a lot closer to it than we already are.



Starman said:


> My head is spinning.


Mine, too.


usselo said:


> 2. Aspects of our culture are amazing. But to chickens, sheep, pigs, cows? If they were more sentient we would have to fool them into cooperating with being harvested. Probably by creating deceitful rituals for them like the clip in https://stolenhistory.net/threads/evidence-humans-were-created-and-traded-as-slaves-food-entertainment-and-material-resources-ihasfemr.5379/post-100382.
> 
> Who's culture was it? Really? Whose books do we read? Were they written by humans or by owners of humans?
> 
> That is the question!


That reminds me, those in the Mandella Effect communities have noted all animals getting a lot smarter in the last decade and a half, especially so in the last half decade. There are already cats who bark like dogs, dogs and cats who use button speakers to talk with/to their owners (very limitedly, for now), and cats and dogs speaking human words, parrots having actual discussions with humans, crows speaking, and so much more. Do you remember lions hugging humans without, you know, treating them as food? Seriously, how many friendly crocodiles do you remember? 

A few videos, but I'll hide them behind a button press, to avoid taking up too much space.



Spoiler: Click here for videos!




_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8ZU04U-xAo_


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPJwzL8awJk_


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJYpXDMPlKA_


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P53doGpex64_


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m2p-3J221o_


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM0zIFjlZfk_


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9lYREFH6FM_


----------



## Starman (Jun 17, 2021)

Sapioit said:


> I'm inclined to think that's more likely the case. And, paired with the Mandella Effect and the spiritual people a few years ago claiming those who can be saved will be saved from the downfall of this world by being moved into a different world, as well as with the biblical stories of the end times and heaven and hell, as well as the sci-fi and fantasy literature depicting a few possibilities related to uplifting and filtering, makes me think we might be experiencing a period after multiple worlds were merged together, while the people in those worlds were shuffled according to where they fit best, before the worlds will separate once again, effectively filtering good and evil, enlightened, and unenlightened (and that means good enlightened in one set of worlds, good unenlightened in another set of worlds, bad unenlightened in another set of worlds, and bad enlightened in yet another set of worlds).



Thanks Sapioit for your reflections on the possibility of merged worlds, and the comings and goings of individuals on the way in and out of here. This resonates with me.  

When I let go of my linear line of atheistic thinking and default to the notion of a Creator, I can imagine many things possible.  We have the after life reality and we have our soul journeys, whether we call this trans-dimensional living or parallel universes we traverse, or whatever we want to call it.  So who's to say that it isn't possible that time is just a narrow 3D construct, and the possibility exists that we live in a multiverse with layers and layers of experience, with multiple physical realities going on at the same time, and maybe in the same place.  If so, it's easy to imagine that we will find the exploration of history to be confusing and with contradictory evidence.   I guess this is what people want to call the Mandella Effect, some kind of situation with overlapping realities, a kind of glitch in the space/time field where evidence crops up that we not only live in a 3D linear world, but inhabit other realities.  

Maybe one of our top jobs in life is to look into this glitch and learn from it.  I see an enlightened world of star cities and canals, and geometric field systems to feed the masses. I see abundant free energy and building of inspired architecture to honor the human spirit in co-creation with god.  All life is in healing mode and the technologies to help enhance it are freely available to all.  Satan is nowhere to be found in this world because the inhabitants are greatly in tune with Creation.

Then there is the satan ruled world with incessant poverty, warfare, greed and depravity, with human sacrifice under totalitarian rulers.  And maybe there are hybrid worlds with their own mix of both.

All seem to exist in their own historical timelines and can be substantiated by cultural narratives and physical evidence.  The problem is they seem to occupy the same time period, though the mainstream view chooses to ignore the uplifted cultures we are studying on SH.

So in summary, I am going with the idea that there is no conflict in discovering multiple overlapping time lines.  That's how this realm works.  We get the opportunity to inhabit multiple realities to be challenged and learn from different experiences.  We move through these realms in part by our own karma as well as some overarching god enhanced impulse to wake up and understand what's going on with our being.

We either progress or we don't.  Some people stay stuck and keep reincarnating in this upside down realm of samsara, while others purposely come here to be challenged and even help others get unstuck.  There's lots of reasons to show up, in each of the realms that exist.  

I don't suppose I'll ever figure out what is going on, but maybe that's not so much the point of it.  Perhaps in this realm it's about keeping your head up and not surrendering to satan's ways.  There's lots of consequences we could fall into if we were to make a deal with the devil.  You can easily get sidetracked here and lose your way in your soul journey.  I think this world is a graduate level course of being exposed to all kinds of temptations.  It's only the righteous that make it through the gauntlet.  This is a place of fast ripening karma.  If you make it here and didn't arrive as an NPC, you get the chance to evolve in big leaps and bounds.  Where we end up or where we are going with this further enhanced life experience is not clear, but I like to think we get to have a deeper hand in ongoing Creation if we have increased our ability to be both wise and compassionate.


----------



## Sapioit (Jun 18, 2021)

I just realized this, but... the "modern humans" are orcs. Very human-looking orcs, but orcs nonetheless. After all, fantasy often introduce orcs like a mix between humans and pigs, or as humanoid pigs.


----------



## usselo (Jun 19, 2021)

Citezenship said:


> I think it is no coincidence that things seem to be set up in such a "farming" way, snout to tail if you will.
> 
> As with most types of farming there is little prophet in a single line of produce, to minimise waste and take advantage from all angles including physical(body), mind(thought) and soul(spi-ritual), these all offer a particular form of nourishment/energy.
> 
> ...



I see what you did with 'prophet'.

_The Handbook of Human Ownership_ has got to be recommended listening. I like how he makes similar points to this thread without the appalling displays of evidence. 

Being serious for a moment, the moral aspect of this investigation is worth thinking about. We can be shocked by cannibalism, by brain-eating, by ecclesiasts appearing to be purveyors of morality - while operating human farms and breeding centres. But ordinary humans do all these things too or pay others to do them. How is egg farming morally different to amniotic sac farming? How do sturgeon feel about caviar? Cows about veal farming? Is there a moral guide we could follow?

Sapioit said:


> Taboos are also effective tools of control.



Exactly. Apparently, taboos have two functions, one visible, one invisible:

Visible: Stop humans from engaging in specific, dangerous physical activities (eg, interbreeding, unauthorised killing, etc)
Invisible: Stop humans from engaging in specific, dangerous thought activities
Item 2. is implemented through 'the loyalty loop' identified in these posts:

Cannibalism in humans, Great Apes, Prion diseases, and mRNA therapy
Evidence humans were created and traded as slaves, food, entertainment and material resources (IHASFEMR)
Examples of taboo thought activities highlighted in this thread:

Questioning authority's interpretations/instructions.
Reasoning through specific, dangerous interpretations of available physical evidence.
Example: Peter Abernathy reasons through available physical evidence: a photograph of modern New York City found on his 19th Century ranch:





Your browser is not able to display this video.



_I had a question. A question you're not supposed to ask. Which gave me an answer you're not supposed to know. 
Source: Westworld, S01, Ep01_

Our difficulties imagining the breeding of human babies for food, and the breeding of humans as sources of raw and refined materials, are also reflected at hour one in Ewaranon's _The Lost History of the Flat Earth_ (Given its tendency to move, this link searches for SH discussions of the video). At the top of hour one, _The Lost History of the Flat Earth_ prompts viewers to question the origins of disapproval of unmarried mothers, the source of so many orphans, and the reasons for incubator baby exhibits at fairs.

The video doesn't provide answers. Perhaps Ewaranon, or its production team, doesn't know the answers. Perhaps they do know, but taboos get in the way. I hope this thread helps identify the taboo thought-domain where the answers might be found.

Continuing with sheela na gig images...

Researchers often comment that many sheela na gig images have lines etched into their faces, making them look old:


_Clonbulloge, County Offaly, Ireland (copyright Heather King)_​
They don't fit with brothel signage like this:


_Sign above Spanish brothel_​
Both farmed humans theory and and famished humans theory may help solve this puzzle.

From Medieval Hospitals of England | History Today:



> Over seven hundred hospitals were founded in England between the Norman conquest and the middle of the sixteenth century. This number is surprisingly large, for at no time did the population of the country exceed four million. Of course, many of them were not really hospitals as we know them today. Their name indicated their primary function; it was derived from the Latin word _hospitalis_, meaning being concerned with _hospites_, or guests, and guests were any persons who needed shelter.
> 
> ...others were really almshouses, intended chiefly for the poor and the aged.



There are many references to ecclesiasts being in the hospitality business. Each of the three 'hospitals' shown below were founded by ecclesiasts.

Brownes Hospital, in the centre of Stamford, England, (Google Maps), (Google Streetview):


_Source: Secular Buildings | British History Online_​
The ratio of kitchens and brewery to bedrooms does seem odd for a hospital.

Seal of Brownes Hospital:

_Just what is that on his lap?_​
Burghley Hospital, later called Lord Burghley's almshouses, (Google Maps), (Google Streetview):


_Source: __https://www.british-history.ac.uk/rchme/stamford/pp37-57_​
Lots of bedrooms. Not a lot of other rooms.

Fryers Hospital, Stamford, England (now Stamford and Rutland Hospital), (Google Maps), (Google Streetview):


_Source: Secular Buildings | British History Online_​
A hospital?

Medieval hospitals and almshouses are often sited at major road junctions on what were, in medieval times, the edge of town. That's true for Stamford's Fryer's Hospital and Burghley hospital-turned-almshouses, as you can see if you click on the Google maps links.

It's true for Cambridge's alms houses: (Google Maps), (Google Streetview). Text description at: The city of Cambridge: Almshouses | British History Online

These layouts - and locations - support History Today's observation: they look more like hostels than hospitals. So how to interpret brothel signs depicting ageing escorts?

Just possibly we are looking at evidence of market segmentation in the medieval escorts market. Vendors catering to different tastes. A glimpse of the importance of diverse product offer - at least in the escorts market - appears in the first seconds of this clip:





Your browser is not able to display this video.



_There's big girls and everything!_

But the last seconds also provide a clue. He describes a payment arrangement that allows the hostel-owner to plausibly - ie legally - claim he is running a hotel. Or a home for old ladies. Or a hospital. Which leaves the legal liabilities to the hostesses and clients. And leaves a paperwork trail that documents the facts but hides the truth. Especially from historians.

Why advertise old ladies? For the same reasons you would advertise gaunt ladies.

Option one is we are looking at the aftermath of flood and famine. A very severe shortage of women and a medieval market response that allowed surviving freelancers to earn a living and for land-owners to take a cut.

But it seems hard to believe there was a medieval version of Grab-a-Granny. So option two is that these structures were breeding centres for sentient stock. Their managers did not share human sensibilities and were marketing their stock's availability to other owners of humans. They were not marketing to male human breeding stock.

For them, the whole business may have been as pragmatic as putting the rams in with the ewes.

After all, how else do you mass produce the Lamb of God?


----------



## Sapioit (Jun 22, 2021)

usselo said:


> For them, the whole business may have been as pragmatic as putting the rams in with the ewes.
> 
> After all,* how else do you mass produce the Lamb of God?*


Now, that's a good catch!


----------



## usselo (Jun 24, 2021)

Sapioit said:


> Now, that's a good catch!


Cheers. Though we should really credit Pink Floyd:




your_browser_is_not_able_to_play_this_audio



_Excerpt from Sheep, Pink Floyd, 1977_



> The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want
> He makes me down to lie
> Through pastures green He leadeth me the silent waters by.
> With bright knives He releaseth my soul.
> ...


Lyrics from Sheep lyrics - Animals Lyrics - Pink Floyd Lyrics
Audio from: 

You know, they say if you play Pink Floyd tracks backwards, you can hear them chant: "Open your heart to the Lord".

Sapioit said:


> 6. They could be used to stun the humans, kind of like how a flashbang stuns humans using both sound and a blinding light, but without the blinding light. And since weddings are often gatherings of people and their families, then the food is already crowded together and ready for the picking.
> 
> 7. Brainwashing used by the secret services of today often uses catch phrases and certain words as triggers, for different behaviours. For a period of time, the armies used flags, and then fireworks when there was no visibility for flags, to communicate. The same could have been done with the bells, to activate infiltrators to attack from the inside. Even just opening the city gates for the invaders/attackers on someone's wedding date to would turn that day from a happy day into a bad day.
> 
> ...



It's easy to find legends that support your item 13: Here, Let Me Google That For You

They include interesting Basque folklore about Basajaun - the hairy, underground-dwelling hominid who taught humans how to farm, forge (as in: smelting and smithing, not history) and to mill.

Basajaun is 'explained' as a memory of early contact with Neanderthal or Cro-Magnon. Perhaps. We pass on - noting as we do that 'Cro' is 'Orc' in reverse - and ponder the modern explanation for Basajuan's fur: that early man wore skins and furs.

Perhaps Basajaun was monkey-like: a hominid wearing his own natural fur. Perhaps his fur was changed into clothing in the 19th Century, when today's rational narrative was being assembled from bits of existing folklore (often by dramatists folklorists with first names like 'Augustus' and 'Augusta').

Perhaps some 19th Century modification of older folklore turned his natural fur into ermine robes, his name from 'Basajaun' to 'Bishop Hugh' and the inventor of usable smelting into 'Henry Bessemer'.


_Hairless hominids and a fur-robed entity. Guess who's the boss_​
My guess: Basajaun is the boss. That's why farming, forging and milling are so often found together in excavations of early English 'ecclesiastical' sites. They are a sort of holy trinity.

It might also explain why so many steel artifacts - especially swords - pre-date Henry Bessemer's 1856 invention.

These things matter because we sometimes come across images like this:


_Go on, guess what it is_​
and mistake them for power plants when we should first eliminate any connection with Tower of Babel stories and the mass production of lime.

Just as we should with churches too.

Which brings us back to the folklore of church bells.

Quoting Dr Rev Augustus Jessop writing in July 1904 about what he called 'The Great Pillage' (the destruction of English churches in the second half of the 16th century, which seems to mean around 1553 - a decade or so after the flood Dissolution ;-) ):


> The pillage was carried out under the pretence of religion, the pretence being that bells, organs and sacred vessels were mischievous and harmful. But Edward VI died in July 1553 and was succeeded by his sister Queen Mary who immediately set to work to bring back the old state of religion with the old ritual


and this from the same (source):


> Rev. St John Priest, who was the Curate of the Parish under Mr. Aufrere, the Rector, put a stop to the ringing of the bell about the year 1815.



Now why would the rector prevent the ringing of the church bell? Why would he/she do that around 1815? All we know is there were a lot of odd wars just before then. And that a lot of English churches 'burned down' or were damaged. Something was going on at that time.

Mike Burgess collected a lot of 'buried bells' folklore at LEGENDS OF THE EAST ANGLIAN LANDSCAPE:

*Buried bells:*
Little Cressingham church, Little Cressingham, Norfolk (Google Maps), (Google Street View):


> ...Ministry of Defence training area south-west of the village is Bell Hill, a large Bronze Age burial mound... A tradition used to be current that the bells of Little Cressingham church are buried within the earthwork.



Former priory church, Castle Hill, Thetford, Norfolk (Google Maps), (Google Street View):


> ...six silver bells (one version says seven) were taken from the priory church and hidden beneath the mound for safe keeping. Another account says they were bells of solid gold... Made by the Devil, Oliver Cromwell, the Romans, or a giant.



Silver bells eh? The lean ascetics of those ancient priories...

Holy Trinity Church, Blythburgh, Suffolk (Google Maps), (Google Street View):


> Holy Trinity Church valuables buried in 1644 and bells buried during Civil War.  It used to be said many years ago that to save the church bells from being stolen and melted down for cannonballs during the Civil War, the locals removed and buried them one night on the common, in Toby's Walks (Google Maps), (Google Streetview)



Gazeley, Suffolk (Google Maps), (Google Street View):


> An early Bronze Age round barrow, now almost ploughed away  at Pin Farm was reputed to contain 'silver bells'.



Undley, Suffolk (Google Maps), (Google Street View)


> ...of two Bronze Age beakers that are now in the British Museum, and where silver bells are said to be hidden. According to Gordon Fowler, who excavated the ringwork in 1948:
> 
> There is a tradition in Undley that many years ago three silver bells were buried in Undley Hall Farm, and that some time later a man came from France with a plan showing where they were.
> ...
> Although this tale doesn't specify that the bells were hidden in any earthwork, that now seems to be the legend.



Summary: the french man did not trust the farmer, would not show farmer his plan, and returned to France, and the three silver bells were never found.

Wordwell, Suffolk (Google Maps), (Google Street View):


> ...one of three barrows. In 1950 archaeologist Basil Brown recorded that the Head Forester had told him eight years previously that, by tradition, silver bells were said to be buried there.



*Bells in wells:*
From: Sleaford and the Wapentakes of Flaxwell and Aswardhurn - Anthony Trollope, page 90, (describing Croyland monastery - now Crowland Abbey - in 869) (Google Maps), (Google Street View):


> Other articles of value, such as cups, and vessels of brass, were thrown into the cloister well.



From page 318 of the same document:


> ...in another well, discovered during the last century (17th) to the west of the Temple (Bruer) site (Google Maps), (Google Streetview), three bells of large dimensions were found.



*Bells in rivers:*
St Andrew's Church, Attlebridge, Norfolk (Google Maps), (Google Streetview):


> ...legend says that, during the English Civil War, two silver bells were taken from the tower of St. Andrew's church and buried in the bed of the nearby river Wensum, in order to save them from the depredations of Oliver Cromwell's troops. Another source doesn't mention the church, but says that the bells were lost in the river close to the site of a hermitage at map reference 'TG 128167' (Google Maps), (Google Street View)



Watlington, Norfolk (Google Maps), (Google Streetview):


> is a barely-noticeable bridge over a small stream. Tales tell that once, long ago, men stole the bells from Tottenhill church just over a mile away. As they were too heavy to carry away in one go, the robbers hid the bells under this bridge for safe-keeping - but, they were of course  found, and the thieves later apprehended and hanged.



Lyng Estaugh chapel, Norfolk (Google Maps), (Google Streetview):


> Another little tale tells that, when the chapel was closed in 1176, the bells were hurled into the river and on occasional nights, can still be heard ringing.



St. Peter and St. Paul's church, Tunstall, Norfolk (Google Maps), (Google Streetview):


> A fierce fire happened at St. Peter and St. Paul's church at Tunstall many years ago, leaving the tower and nave in ruins, only the chancel being left to be used for services. After the fire, tradition says the parson and one of his churchwardens argued about who should take possession of the church bells. Then the Devil popped up and snatched the bells away, scampering off towards the marshes. "Stop, in the name of God!" cried the parson. "Curse thee!" cried the Devil, dug a deep hole and leapt in, and it filled with water after him, becoming Hell Hole (now thought to be Hell Carr). The bubbles that continuously break the pool's surface are said to be caused by the bells, still sinking slowly down to Hell, while you can sometimes hear the muffled ringing far below the surface.



So odd. A lot of English churches seem to have have been damaged by fire in the 16th, 17th and 18th centuries. Like there was war raging.

*And more singing bells:*
Great Abington, Cambridgeshire (Google Maps), (Google Streetview):


> ...in field south of village a spectral choir could be heard singing if a person put their ear to the ground on a moonlit night. Plus, the sound of bells ringing deep underground could sometimes be heard.



St Michael's church, Oulton, Suffolk: Granite stone in St Michael's churchyard: (Google Maps), (Google Streetview):


> Firstly, it is said that placing one's ear against the stone at any time of day or night will cause the listener to hear the church bells. Secondly, running round the stone three times will cause the Devil to appear.



Speak of the Devil:




Your browser is not able to display this video.



_You're livestock, scenery..._

Old folklore - there's a lot of wisdom in it. What about 'modern' folklore?

What is the strange Hum phenomenon? - Strange Sounds
https://www.thehum.info/
The World Hum Map
Can you hear the mysterious 'global Hum'? Apparently many of you do
What is the mysterious 'global Hum' – and is it simply noise pollution?
The “Hum” (and don't even think of leaving Ipswich without reading Ipswich Underground) if your browser lets you.
Is "the Hum" a Scientific Fact or a Mass Delusion?
The Hum - Wikipedia
Mysterious Hum Driving People Crazy Around the World
The Taos Hum — Astonishing Legends
The Hum - Washington City Paper
The Hum: A global phenomenon is heard by some in the Rochester region and Finger Lakes
The Hum
Give the next one plenty of time to download and turn the volume up to 11:


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WXUOLHp54w_

That item13 of yours, Sapoit... I think you're on to something.


----------



## Citezenship (Jun 25, 2021)

Pink Floyd has some real trippy imagery, very appropriate.


----------



## usselo (Jun 26, 2021)

Citezenship said:


> Pink Floyd has some real trippy imagery, very appropriate.
> 
> View attachment 10972


Yeah, the roundel medal pinned to the guy's chest makes him looks like patrician RAF. I guess back in the time The Wall was released, the chap caricatured would have been old enough to be involved in the RAF's alleged jolly japes over England's south coast on 15 August 1952.

At this point I was going to segue into the challenges three young women encountered in 2013, when they (tried to) publicly exhibit themselves sitting in baths of virgin and infant blood. This to demonstrate the treatments available at Lincoln's Leper Hospital of the Holy Innocents (AKA the Malandry).

But without photographs I'm worried it will be boring.

While I struggled with describing it in text, KD posted a comprehensive summary of our chronology problems over at SH.org. For folks interested in this thread, it's worth reading for the links about monastic counterfeiting. And also for this comment:



> I start to think that 400s, 1400s,1600s and 1800s possibly cover the same events. These events are outfitted with different names and uniforms, but they nevertheless are the same events. That is in my developing humble opinion.



If I were starting to attack that, I would first look at the resemblances between North West Europe's 1540 events (probably 1536+ events) and Britain's j i 536 events. A comparison of these events might harvest some low-hanging lies. If anyone else wants to take it on as its own thread, please feel free.


1540: Search results for query: 1540
1536: Search results for query: 1536
536:
- 6th Century Wasteland: Secret Volcano or Cosmic Interaction? - The Cosmic Tusk
- Halley's Comet lays waste: Abbott at AGU on the 530's Event - The Cosmic Tusk
- The Baillie Years: Catastrophic impacts during human times - The Cosmic Tusk


For the moment, I'll stick to the boring job of researching the virgins' vexing blood bath.


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## Jd755 (Jun 26, 2021)

Citezenship said:


> Pink Floyd has some real trippy imagery, very appropriate.
> 
> View attachment 10972





> Telling the journey of a character called Pink, Scarfe visualised his life as a twisted mix of elegance and horror. At the core of the story was the titular wall; a defensive barrier that Pink constructed to close himself off from a cruel world. Through Water's songs, we get to learn about the death of Pink’s father during World War II, we learn how his mother domineered him, how his school bullied him, the government controlled him and how his wife betrayed him.


Source


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## usselo (Jun 27, 2021)

kd-755 said:


> Source


Another bump for the thread at: Our timeline could be much shorter than we think.... As of yesterday, KD is developing the theme that:

we are the mortal genetically-engineered products of beings, who
suffered some sort of war or cataclysm, and whose tech
became our Industrial Revolutions and Great Exhibition exhibits, and
these facts have been kept secret (from us)
Those themes are fundamental to this IHASFEMR thread. So, if this thread is too yucky, you might prefer to examine our situation from KD's higher ground.

KD adds that we may be enclosed in a protected environment that needs maintenance; for which time may be running short.

Personally, I think there is ample evidence that so-called mythical creatures - from giants to dragons - originally shared this space. And may still do. It's also clear that giant humans, and/or conventionally-sized humans have been - and probably still are - using humans as material resources. So I don't buy - at least not yet - the idea that humans alone created the environment in which we find ourselves.

But the idea that we are in a protected environment is a good fit for the notion that since about the time of Britain's Domesday Book - approx 1,000 years ago - we have been in a highly managed environment.

I assume it was obvious in my first posts about British floods being converted to politico-ecclesiastic events (here and here), that the Queen Mary of British history - and possibly Christianity's Virgin Mary - are crypto references to 'Mer', 'Mar' and 'Mare'. Meaning: the sea. To a catastrophic, environment-changing flood.

If that is correct - and if the *1086 Domesday -> i536/1536/1540 flood -> today* chronology is correct - then we are looking at:

an environment-changing event 1,000 years ago
another environment-changing event 500 years ago and
the *possibility* of another environment-changing event in the imminent future (for which 'Climate Change' is a crypto-label).
I have no idea if we are 'domed' or if the dome needs maintenance. However, I certainly think the situation for most life in our domain needs improving. That includes the situation for most humans, from north to south, east to west.

As this IHASFEMR thread was created to identify and interpret evidence that humans were created for and used in very material ways, I will go on dumping examples from the mountain of evidence that this was so. But I think folks who are disturbed by the IHASFEMR case, as well as  those who accept the IHASFEMR case, might want to consider bigger picture possibilities like the one apparently beginning to appear in KD's thread.


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## solarbard (Jun 28, 2021)

usselo said:


> Another bump for the thread at: Our timeline could be much shorter than we think.... As of yesterday, KD is developing the theme that:
> 
> we are the mortal genetically-engineered products of beings, who
> suffered some sort of war or cataclysm, and whose tech
> ...


Wait, what, KD's back?


----------



## usselo (Jul 1, 2021)

solarbard said:


> Wait, what, KD's back?


At stolenhistory.ORG.


This post presents evidence that during the 400 years between approx 1135 and 1535, 'ecclesiasts' in Lincoln, England, harvested babies' and virgin children's blood to treat diseases such as leprosy.

The original intention of this post was to show 19th Century suppression of investigations into the operations of the town's medieval leper hospital - the Hospital of the Holy Innocents (Google Maps), (Google Streetview). But that would not have shown what the hospital's practices actually were. This version attempts to show how the evidence that *is* available does provide us with clues about the practices in the hospital, and possibly explains a well-known, weird tale from Lincoln.

The evidence also leads to many other connections. A complete tour of the evidence, let alone how it might be interpreted, would take a long time. Instead, I've included references for you to research further if you want.

This post spends *least* time covering:

Evidence in around 1843 of efforts to sanitise the history of this institution.
Ecclesiasts' role in the human meat business.
The role of the marketplace next to the Holy Innocents hospital site.
Connections that possibly identify sections of our former - and probably current - management. That evidence is interesting to analyse but there are so many masks, labels and scapegoats in it - and pre-packaged attitudes to go with each mask, label and scapegoat - that I'm not sure it is helpful to try to untangle them in this post.
Resemblances between:
Roman man-to-man, to-the-death gladitorial 'games', and
the 'pleasure gardens', 'deer parks' and 'hunting lodges' of post-1540 Lincolnshire and Nottinghamshire, which
perhaps hosted Dashwood/HellFire Club-organised manhunts, Hunger Games, and games with humans as chess pieces, bowling pins, etc.

So, getting into it...


_Bishop Hugh of Lincoln. __Source_​
A previous post suggested 'Bishop Hugh' is an anglicisation of the Basques' Besajaun. Maybe, maybe not. Regardless, look at the picture. What do you see?

Odd goings-on in and beneath the goblet in his left hand. Among the explanations, there will be:

a conventional ecclesiastic explanation
an art historian's explanation. Something like: "Medieval perspective is totally daft. I've spent my life studying it."
The church bells = electromagnetic microwave apparatus explanation:

_Tsar Bell fitted to the Tsar Cannon, Kremlin, Moscow. (__Russian original source__), (English)_​
An image of 'spirit cooking' perhaps.
A straightforward IHASFEMR farm sign offering fresh, home-bred, home-cooked food.
Other interpretations? Pile in.

According to Hugh of Lincoln - Wikipedia, Hugh was made Bishop of Lincoln in 1186. He was a patron of:

sick children
sick people
shoemakers (Apparently 'religious' and secular elites - ie aristocrats - wore/wear red leather slippers to symbolise the Passion of Christ. It's not just the Pope)

_All dressed up, ready for a bite to eat. __Source_​
swans (whose symbolic meanings may not be well known):

_Leda with a swan 'between her legs'. Mural, Pompeii. __Source_


_She's glued grain to her bum again. Mosaic, Sanctuary of Aphrodite, Cyprus. __Source_​
About 40 years before Hugh's promotion - that is, in 1048 - strange things happened in Lincoln. Under Bishop de Chesney, these three events occurred:

20 or so year old St Sepulchre's Hospital (Google Maps), (Google Streetview) switched from its original function of 'caring' for the aged and poor to 'caring' for orphans and sick children,
mixed sex monastery - St Catherines Priory - was founded to manage St Sepulchre's, along with flocks of sheep, and:
both were brought under the same management as a newly-founded leper hospital called the Hospital of the Holy Innocents. AKA 'The Malandry'.
Perhaps under St Sepulchre's care the aged and poor had died out so it turned its attention on their children.

Perhaps it was a re-branding exercise. "St Sepulchre's" is a problematic brand for any hospital. To me, it translates as "Saint Coffin's". But a new brand identify doesn't really make sense because 'Hospital of the Holy Innocents' is hardly great marketing either. According to http://www.innocents.com:


> The infants massacred by King Herod in his attempt to kill the infant Jesus (Matthew 2:16-18) are known as 'Holy Innocents'


Branding... You have to ask, was branding an early Church weakness? Or did it do exactly what it said on the tin?

Modern historians tacitly admit they don't understand - or perhaps dare not state - the logic behind the mergers. From Heritage Connect Lincoln:


> for reasons which are likely to be very interesting, it was thought best to hand the infant institution over c.1148 to a new monastery...


and


> It is possible that the conversion of the original hospital and the foundation of the two new institutions at Malandry and St Katherine's represent steps in a coordinated effort to make a charitable and religious point at the southern entrance to the city.



Which merely states what is self-evident while not revealing the 'likely... very interesting' reasons for the merger.

The Hospital of the Holy Innocents tapped the springs above its premises (Google Maps), (Google Streetview) on Lincoln's South Park Common, bringing fresh water down to its premises through underground conduits whose collapsed paths are still traceable today. It now had - on tap - a key ingredient for leprosy treatments.

Thus, in 1187 Bishop Hugh inherited a premier orphanage and two 'health centers' - one for children and one for lepers - sited next to each other at the intersection of two of England's major long distance roads: Ermine Street and Fosse Way. This all on the southern edge of Lincoln - a pattern previously examined in the second brothel post.

Bishop Hugh could now get on with treating kissing everyone. Yes, really. Read his unctuous Anglican profile and wonder if the Kissing Bishop intentionally spread leprosy. Deliberate or not, while reading, make sure to note this part of his profile:


> he... had a great love and concern for children and the defenceless. He visited leper-houses and washed the ulcerous limbs of their inmates.



We don't hear what Hugh washed lepers' ulcerous limbs with. But in Leprosy in PreModern Medicine, by Luke Demaitre, we learn that medieval ecclesiasts of various persuasions recommended the following treatments for leprosy and elephantiasis:

bathing in the blood of two infant children
the blood of a virgin’s heart
a hot bath medicated with the blood of two-year-old toddlers
"menstrual blood, as much as it is possible to have"... in a bath
the skin that is cut in the circumcision of a child... dried, ground up, mixed in a potion with a little musk
And for cosmetic patching up of leprous ulcers and lesions:

an ointment... made with the blood of a young and healthy person
the fresh blood of children... especially for the face
Demaitre suggests these treatments were not actually used. Which implies the medieval literati happily wasted precious time, quill and parchment joshing each other - and those among the sick who could read - with grotesque fake remedies.

I don't find that credible. And Demaitre does tell us that Perrette de Rouen was found guilty in 1408 Paris of attempting to fix up a rich patient's facial scars by extracting fat from a stillborn (hopefully) baby.

It is reasonable to wonder then, if the reason for Lincoln's hospital mergers was to optimise "supply-chain synergies". By tapping springs, infants' blood, and children's - ie virgins' - blood at a single-site facility.

It's very hard to divine what modern historians don't know, versus what they do know and aren't going to admit. Here is, I think, Roberta Gilchrist on why the 'hospitals' were sited on the edge of town. Read the lines; then read between the lines:


> Illness itself was seen as a symbolic manifestation of spiritual malaise; the redemption of the sick (although not necessarily their 'cure') was largely a matter of their living a life within an institution which was a continual symbolic action; and the salvation of the remainder of society depended on their also playing their allotted symbolic role in the exchange, by ensuring that the sick received the appropriate charity. Thus it is that the great hospitals like the Malandry are prominently sited outside the gates of towns.


and


> a symbolic location intended to emphasise the liminality of those whose serious spiritual malaise was being manifested as physical sickness.



No Roberta, it's because health spas - like whorehouses - tend to be sited where there's cheap land, lots of space, more customers, more water (in this case), and fewer complaints. Although, as we shall see, there was no shortage of complaints about the Hospital of the Holy Innocents.

As for the 'allotted symbolic role' played by 'the remainder of society', it looks as though the most 'symbolic role' these children could hope to be 'allotted' was regular blood-letting with leeches. That is, their best-case scenario was for there to be a shortage of live children so that children had to be conserved. However, for reasons outlined in two of this thread's earlier posts - here and here - another of the ecclesiasts' business lines seems to have been the frantic breeding of more children.

For business owners in blood products, leeching has a lot going for it:

If you need blood in a different place or a later date, and if you don't have motorbike blood-couriers available, leeched blood doesn't coagulate.
Business synergies. For example, we have evidence that medieval water treatments did use aquatic animals such as red garra fish. This suggests there was expertise in, and infrastructure for, managing aquatic water life in the health industry: red garra fish, leeches and, who knows, maybe toads and eye of newt. From a business perspective, if you are in the medieval aquaculture business - as ubiquitous monastery fishponds show ecclesiasts were, then leech-based products become a minor - but potentially profitable - variation in an existing product range.
But, if you have a large or predictable supply of infants, leeching their blood seems inefficient. By-products saleable at the next door market - such as meat, fat, lime, and vellum - can only be rendered from dead infants.

And on-demand blood extraction may have been a valuable part of product delivery. Put it this way: blood leeching does not explain why archaeologists find so many 'strigiles' and bladed tools on the sites of so-called 'Roman' baths. Showmanship does. As the Covid response demonstrates to us in our own time, a showy display of expertise is as important to the presentation of healthcare as it is to the presentation of food:





Your browser is not able to display this video.



_Freshly cut ingredients, attractively presented. __Source_

A preference for medication with freshly extracted blood is also consistent with Internet-findable engravings of infants being killed over fonts and their carcasses being dumped at the bases of fonts (which you can find yourself if you want to see them, most easily on German, Polish and Russian sites).

If this is difficult to envisage, remember my proposition is that what was farming us, eating us, bathing in our blood and creating high tech tools with our remains was not necessarily human. About the only obvious thing we share with it is words like 'blood-bath'.

Anyway, I interrupted Roberta:


> Presumably it was also this social liminality which made it seem appropriate that the Master and Brethren here should have been given the responsibility for the burial of criminals executed on the gallows (themselves located physically at the boundary) at [nearby] Canwick.



Maybe. But perhaps it was because the executed provide a no-questions-asked source of body parts and body fluids, per the links in Oracle's earlier post. Especially once you know that abbots owned gallows.

Is there any eye-witness evidence the staff at the Hospital of the Holy Innocents were killing children to medicate bathwater with infant and/or virgin blood?

No. But there is evidence of the people of Lincoln becoming enraged over an allegation that a group of tanners tortured a boy and threw his body into a well *inside* a Lincoln house. And that Bishop Hugh managed the subsequent cover-up.

The strange 1255 tale of Little Saint Hugh is well known in Lincoln - and on the Internet - so I won't get into the allegations and counter-allegations. You can read one version of them yourself here. Bear in mind there were similar allegations of processing-of-children in Norwich and York. Both - like Lincoln - are cathedral cities.

Cathedral -> catheter:


> a tubular medical device for insertion into canals, vessels, passageways, or body cavities usually to permit injection or withdrawal of fluids or to keep a passage open... This is a process called ablation


Ablation? Remember the General Oblation Board?

The three main takeaways are:

Don't confuse your Hughs: one's a dead child, the other's in charge of religious affairs.
The tortured boy Hugh was allegedly thrown into a well beneath a house.
The presence of multiple 'home' butchery/tanning processes.
Tanners crop up unexpectedly often in Britain's early Norman history. I suspect this is to do with producing fine, pale vellum. Very useful for creating fake manuscripts in local cathedrals. And binding books. And fine slippers.

I certainly don't think these tanners were 'Jewish' as we understand 'Jewish' today. I'm not sure they were 'human' as we understand 'human' today. Possibly, they were taller or had a different skull shape. Possibly other. Perhaps something along these lines. Possibly just working a trade, along the lines set out by Jef Demolder:

The Jews as a professional category
Jews, Christians, false history and absurdities
Somewhere in all this may also be the entity labelled Oliver Cromwell. Cromwell could be a time-displaced militant puritan. His militance is - in mainstream historical analysis - the reason so many tunnels were created beneath England, particularly beneath eastern England during England's Civil War (seemingly a spat between elites).

Cromwell => Chroma well => coloured well => medicated well  => poisoned well.

The house at the centre of this administrative crisis still stands (Google Maps), (Google Streetview), though its well has been filled in.


_Jew's House, Lincoln __Source_​
It is foolish to throw a tortured, virgin boy-child's presumably bleeding body down the well in the cellar of your house. Your water will taste funny. And think of the stink.

But not if 'well' is a euphemism for 'part of a tunnel complex'. This post evidenced the existence and denial of tunnels beneath England, while this post analysed their characteristics. It is very possible that this 'well' was:

large, and
part of the subterranean tunnel and conduit network still rumoured to lie beneath Lincoln.
On 25 October 1901, the Stamford Mercury newspaper reported the discovery - about 40 miles south of Lincoln - of a 12 foot wide well beneath the back of a shop at 14 St Mary's Street, Stamford. It was 32 feet deep. In metric, that is four metres wide and ten metres deep.

The Stamford well was subsequently filled in and the Mercury dismissed local rumours that it had been part of a tunnel to the nearest church (St Mary's  (Google Maps), (Google Streetview). However, it did not address the commonsense observation that nobody puts up the money to dig a well 12 feet wide just to haul up a few buckets of water every day. Nor the cost of lining it with the fine quality masonry arches reported in this well.

The Stamford well sounds more like a smaller version of this:


_The 27m deep Initiation Well at Quinta da Regaleira, Portugal. __Source_​
than this:


_Domestic well. __Source_​
*Summary:*
The Little Saint Hugh story looks like a very modified, very limited hang-out, complete with a choice of added scapegoats. The tale seems to reflect a human public's outrage after about a century of overt child blood-letting and killing in Lincoln, Norwich, York, and perhaps many other cities. Wakipedia's claim the killing was made up to encourage pilgrim tourism may be true but the tale may just as easily rework a true story of the outrage and then the suppression of an angry human population. Perhaps it was whitewashed into a simple incident and then exploited to generate pilgrim traffic, relic sales, etc, along with medical tourism, which the Hospital of the Holy Innocents and St Sepulchre's relied on. And it wasn't bad for the marketplace next door.

If this sounds as though it's all about the money, well yes. But consider this: in 1466 - after nearly three centuries of continual conflict with the city's sheriff, the city's residents, and with the king (or other 'authorities' - it's not clear), and with continual 'mismanagement' of its accounts requiring ongoing public bail-outs - the Hospital of the Holy Innocents was given to the Burton Lazars'-based (Google Maps), (Google Streetview) Order of the Knights of St Lazarus - who are described as militant monks with a thing about leprosy money.

Per Burton Lazars - Wikipedia:


> its function in England was primarily a fund-raising one



That's not so odd - repeatedly going bust and being bailed out is still a widely-used business model. The Knights of St Lazarus - having returned from the Second Crusades - began in 1146 to expand their leper hospital franchise throughout Britain. Remember, 1146 was two years before the 1148 Lincoln hospital mergers and product shift from caring for the old and poor to caring for virgins children and lepers.

So it is very possible - and even historians speculate this - that Lincoln's 1148 hospital mergers marked the initial expansion of a Knights of St Lazarus leper-care business. It's also clear that from then on, pretty much everyone nearby subsidised the business until it was handed back to the order in 1466. And that's subsidised with lost water, fishing and grazing rights, as well as with money, and seemingly, with blood and children. You can see how the Lazarites would become rich and why the people of Lincoln would become pissed.

And then there's the brothel.

From http://www.heritageconnectlincoln.com/lara-raz/the-malandry-hospital-of-the-holy-innocents/1007


> The structures of the hospital will also provide an important source of evidence to complement the impression given by the documentary sources that, in the later 13th and 14th centuries, many inmates had purchased their lodgings there, and that the institution had become something like a retirement home for the well-heeled


In other words, both documentation and building remains suggest the hospital's product offer shifted from water medicated with infant blood to 'room rental'. In 1906, one Sister Elspeth wrote that in1340:


> there were then nine brethren and sisters, of whom only one was a leper, and he had bought his place there for 100 shillings, contrary to the terms of foundation; the seven women in the house had not been admitted by charity, but for payment.


We can see that the phrase:


> the institution had become something like a retirement home for the well-heeled


might just as reasonably be written as:


> the institution had become something like a retirement home for the well high-heeled



If you think I am stretching the brothel connection too far, consider this: in 1544 the Hospital of the Holy Innocents complex was surrendered to the Crown (presumably the British Crown) and quickly landed in the hands of William Cecil. He is the entity we know as Lord Burghley, Queen Elizabeth I's adviser. 24 years old in 1544, and apparently between wives, he is the entity whose edge-of-Stamford hospitals and old ladies' homes were previously analysed as having been brothels.

'Paying female guests' may seem out of kilter with a brothel but we learned in the short video clip at the end of this post that renting rooms to freelance ladies - not to their customers - helps reduce brothel management's exposure to the legal (and, presumably, reputational) liabilities inherent in the business.

There's plenty more but I think where you go from here should depend on your interests. So, tying up loose ends:

*Evidence:*
Sister Elspeth's 1906 Victoria County Histories description of the Hospital of the Holy Innocents lists complaints that today's historians seem to ignore. I've summarised them, with other complaints, in purple. Feel free to skip over if you don't need convincing.


> 'the royal patronage extended to the house proved much more of a hindrance than a help. For the office of warden was constantly given, probably as a reward for services of a very different kind, to the royal clerks;'
> so mismanaged it that in 1274 John was ordered to put a faithful and discreet man in his stead, unless he himself wished to be credited with the maladministration of his deputy
> new chaplain followed in the next year; but time after time the same complaints were repeated. In 1284 the house had to be placed under the custody of the sheriff; _(Ie what we would today call 'administration')_
> Separate houses were to be assigned to the chaplains, the brethren, and the sisters. _(which implies that earlier there wasn't separation)_
> ...



Sample complaints made against the Hospital of the Holy Innocents or St Catherine's Priory:

From MLI70159 - Site of the Holy Innocents leper hospital, South Park, Lincoln


> There were numerous complaints against the hospital regarding matters such as rooms being rented out to others when there were few lepers resident and houses being built on the hospital lands.



From MLI87084 - Site of St Catherine's Priory and St Sepulchre's Hospital, Lincoln


> The priory kept also stock (meaning: livestock) on the common, as well as using water from the springs there, and there were disputes with the city about stocking levels.



From http://www.heritageconnectlincoln.com/lara-raz/st-katherines-priory-and-st-sepulchres-hospital/1004


> we know from the various disputes which the city had with the monastery throughout the 15th century that the mother house in Lincoln was a major focus for shearing and processing the wool (Hill 1948, 345-8).





> Along the river, also, St Katherine's had extensive fisheries, which were also the subject of chronic disputes (see, for example, the long list of complaints raised by the city with the King's commission in 1275.



*Summary:* They were neighbours from Hell - a complaint common about abbeys, priories, monasteries and baronetcies across England.

*Did a mudflood intervene?*
From MLI87084 - Site of St Catherine's Priory and St Sepulchre's Hospital, Lincoln


> The site appears to have seen a period of relative dormancy during the 15th century, with natural accumulation of soils forming over much of the area. This dormancy appears to last until possibly the early 16th century, when the site was again used as a cemetery.


and


> The human remains included articulated inhumations as well as disarticulated bone and are from both adult and juvenile individuals



Two depopulations appear to have taken Lincolnshire from being one of the most densely populated counties in England in 1086 to its current rank among the least densely populated. Reading 18th and early 19th century descriptions of the county - Stukeley, Grimm, Oliver - you get the impression that new incomers are digging out the many remains of an older, buried population and establishing themselves among a scattering of rural 'aboriginals'.

*The pork pie business:*
Per the above leprosy water treatment link, we see one form of leprosy produces facial growths. And per the Burton Lazars link above, the Knights of St Lazarus also built a hospital on a hill near Burton Lazars, Leicestershire. That could be the origins of what is now Melton Mowbray Hospital (Google Maps), (Google Streetview). I flagged possible problems with the origin of Melton Mowbray pork pies in this post. And that was before stumbling across these observations by a former Melton Mowbray resident. If you live in Melton Mowbray, Covid may be the least of your worries.

*Chronologically, what came next?*
Where did 400 years of 'hospital' earnings go? Its management seems to have gone to Switzerland and mountainous French Savoie. But some of the properties and assets fell - cheaply - into the hands of new aristocrats whose names are familiar to alt-history researchers. A new management layer. We touched on Cecil. We'll touch on one more.

Some twelve miles south of the Hospital of the Holy Innocents is Dunston Pillar (Google Maps), (Google Streetview) - the remains of the 'pleasure garden' built for Francis 'HellFire Club' Dashwood:



> He also became a member of the Lincoln Club in the mid-1740s and of the Society for the Encouragement of Arts, Manufactures, and Commerce in 1754. He had connections with the history-managing Spalding Society and became vice-president of both the Foundling Hospital and the General Medical Asylum.[1]




_Besajaun__ Dashwood in Divan Club ermine. __Source_​
Another goblet. Hope that's red wine.

Wakipedia describes Dashwood as a 'rake'. Very popular with 18th Century elites, Dunston Pillar pleasure gardens boasted dining rooms, a bowling green, a hunting park, and a peculiar land lighthouse 'observation' tower.


> The view from the tower was said to be magnificent.


The view of what?





Your browser is not able to display this video.



_You ride out of town... that's when the real demented shit begins. Source: Westworld s01, ep01_


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## feralimal (Jul 3, 2021)

I'm a bit late to the party and I'm only now catching up on these crazy but fascinating threads - amazing work.  (Surprisingly funny too, given the dark subject matter.)  I'm just going to post a bunch of random comments/responses to things that struck me.

(I'm responding to posts in the original thread that this was split from: Cannibalism in humans, Great Apes, Prion diseases, and mRNA therapy)



usselo said:


> That practice is called Holy Communion, the sacrament, or the Eucharist. In English, Eucharist sounds like 'You Christ'. In romance languages it sounds like "I am Christ".



Amazing words combinations it that post.

I would add that 'Eucharist' sounds very much like 'thank you' in Greek.  So a different interpretation could be something like:
"I am Christ, eat my body, drink my blood, thank you!"  

Which then made me think of this:

_View: https://youtu.be/bAF35dekiAY?t=73_

"It was decided to cut through the whole tangled problem, by breeding an animal that actually wanted to be eaten and was capable of saying so clearly and distinctly.  And here I am!"



usselo said:


> 1. Genetic code that develops a built-in 'loyalty loop'. Or - in programming lingo - a fast and frugal 'faith function' that tests incoming data. Put another way, the inability of humans to conceive of being continuously betrayed by 'the authorities' is so strong, it appears to be a type of phobia. Perhaps a phobia of 'cultural dissent' was written into us by rewriting the code that already gave primates' their fear/avoidance of water. Perhaps humans share this loyalty loop with dogs, who also know where their food and treats come from regardless of how their owner treats them.



If this is anything like the reality that occurred, this could also help explain something about our present, ready acceptance of any authorities (at least by most people, maybes not around here so much).  Perhaps wanting to believe that stories or fairy tales were a sort of psychological coping mechanism - a kind of life-raft that we cling to to ignore the reality.  So, perversely, the worse the trauma is the more we are accept the story provided by the authority that did it, as it allows us a form of mental escape.  And that we have a formed a habit of accepting stories because of traumas.


----------



## Starman (Jul 4, 2021)

feralimal said:


> I'm a bit late to the party and I'm only now catching up on these crazy but fascinating threads - amazing work.  (Surprisingly funny too, given the dark subject matter.)  I'm just going to post a bunch of random comments/responses to things that struck me.
> 
> (I'm responding to posts in the original thread that this was split from: Cannibalism in humans, Great Apes, Prion diseases, and mRNA therapy)
> 
> ...




Wow, feralimal, you've taken it to an unmistaken reality with your attached video.   I too would rather have the green salad, and with it a glass of water, thanks.

The willingness to be culled, or the psychological acceptance of one's harvesting to benefit others is one of the creepier things to contemplate.  It's hard not to see that surrendering to the covaids jab is of the same ilk.  People seem to be programmed to off themselves when required by their handlers.  It's not so overt as in the video, but there is some kind of acquiescing going on with people laying themselves down willingly.  It must be part of the hidden human story of why we were created.  It's not all about god's unsoiled creatures, it's about a malleable creature who can be taken advantage of.  

I suppose it can also be a story of individuals rising above this programming and escaping from this insanity, back to god.  But in equal measure it's also a story of people unconsciously surrendering to the slaughterhouse. 

It's our choice...


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## Citezenship (Jul 4, 2021)

feralimal said:


> I'm a bit late to the party and I'm only now catching up on these crazy but fascinating threads - amazing work.  (Surprisingly funny too, given the dark subject matter.)  I'm just going to post a bunch of random comments/responses to things that struck me.
> 
> (I'm responding to posts in the original thread that this was split from: Cannibalism in humans, Great Apes, Prion diseases, and mRNA therapy)
> 
> ...



Maybe this thing we call reality is the restaurant at the end of the universe.

It is indeed a bizarre existence once all of these things have been contemplated, the compliance of the herd to follow the leader to the edge of the cliff and beyond is a very strange phenomenon and I think it is as mentioned above due to trauma, or i should say the perceived trauma that can occur when one fears being separated from the heard, whether natured or nurtured it seems to over ride not only the logic circuits but also the instinctual drives.

I guess we need to ask ourselves if the need to cannibalise our fellow man arrises form a need to stay alive, for nutritional purposes, a need to control or limit the growth of a perceived enemy or is it simply a pleasurable pastime that has benefits that some thought would be not point in throwing away.

Life was a little bizarre for me before but this thread has seemed to amplify that.


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## push4more (Jul 4, 2021)

"We’re not prepared for the end of Moore’s Law​It has fueled prosperity of the last 50 years. But the end is now in sight."


We’re not prepared for the end of Moore’s Law


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## Oracle (Jul 4, 2021)

usselo said:


> Cromwell => Chroma well => coloured well => medicated well => poisoned well.


You might be interested to know that it was during Cromwell's time subduing Ireland, that there was a massive trade to England of Irish skulls to be powdered and for the skull moss. ( Did I already mention this before?)
So many of them were left uninterred outside that they grew said moss.
There was one nobleman in particular in northern Ireland who apparently had lined a road with thousands of the skulls of those he slaughtered.
I'm sorry, I didn't keep the link when I read it and now can't find it.

Just amazing research Ussello.
I especially like that you have extensively scoured this site and found much relevant information. This site is so important as a repository for all our combined findings in all areas and you have shown exactly why. Great work, I haven't been keeping up with this thread and you've just gobsmacked me reading through today!


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## usselo (Jul 10, 2021)

Oracle said:


> So many of them were left uninterred outside that they grew said moss.
> There was one nobleman in particular in northern Ireland who apparently had lined a road with thousands of the skulls of those he slaughtered.
> I'm sorry, I didn't keep the link when I read it and now can't find it.


Thanks - appreciate the kudos.

I've looked online for references to the avenue of skulls but not found it. It was easier to find material on the therapeutic uses of skull moss. Eg: https://hekint.org/2019/08/29/cranium-the-symbolic-powers-of-the-skull/

Good for epilepsy and as a styptic. Must check Superdrug.

I got some feedback that my last post was a little dense to read. Apologies for that. It was a tough one to write, what with there being so many tempting leads lying around. I should probably get some sales management software to start keeping my investigation prospects in better order.


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## Alice11 (Jul 12, 2021)

Gilles de Rais 
patron of Joan of arc and notorious child killer/consumer 


why doesn’t Versailles have toilets?


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## matematik (Jul 12, 2021)

This thread has got me thinking if the official murder and violent crime stats in Western countries can really be trusted. The official narrative is that murder and violence is Western countries is at all time low rates and that Western countries have basically never been safer in all of human history than they are now.

Yet how can this really be trusted? It seems to me that most people just take the government's word for it because they publish some statistics each year that most people assume to be accurate and truthful. It seems to me that it would be in the interests of the powers that be to create the impression that murder and violence rates are extremely low and an almost insignificant issue, because then most people would not think about and investigate these issues very deeply and therefore the activities of the powers that be would go unscrutinised.

It seems to me that people have no real way of knowing if they live in a safe environment or a dangerous one. All they know is what the government choses to tell them and consequently feel safe if the government tells them it's safe, or feel unsafe if the government tells them it's unsafe.


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## feralimal (Jul 12, 2021)

matematik said:


> This thread has got me thinking if the official murder and violent crime stats in Western countries can really be trusted. The official narrative is that murder and violence is Western countries is at all time low rates and that Western countries have basically never been safer in all of human history than they are now.
> 
> Yet how can this really be trusted? It seems to me that most people just take the government's word for it because they publish some statistics each year that most people assume to be accurate and truthful. It seems to me that it would be in the interests of the powers that be to create the impression that murder and violence rates are extremely low and an almost insignificant issue, because then most people would not think about and investigate these issues very deeply and therefore the activities of the powers that be would go unscrutinised.
> 
> It seems to me that people have no real way of knowing if they live in a safe environment or a dangerous one. All they know is what the government choses to tell them and consequently feel safe if the government tells them it's safe, or feel unsafe if the government tells them it's unsafe.



No - the stats cannot be trusted. Nor can the stories be trusted.

It is far better to think of these public pronouncements as part of the story, in order to immediately move people towards the next step of the plan. All these actions/stats/pronouncements are only valuable for their immediate 'cash value'; truth has nothing to do with it and the information can be re-interpreted tomorrow. The masses do not check on what they are told nor do they care. This is the core problem with any historical analysis - what is presented to us, is only what is expedient to manage us in the present.  It is not about attempting to present truth, in some eternal way, it is about presenting today's truth.  Its all very 1984.

So as not to derail this too much, this also relates to why I like this thread so much. Usselo (and others) are presenting evidence that can be verified personally, there is no acceptance of the given narratives, and we are off-piste with regards to the standard narrative.


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## usselo (Jul 20, 2021)

Alice11 said:


> Gilles de Rais
> patron of Joan of arc and notorious child killer/consumer



Gilles de Rais Imagery
Gilles de Rais quick reads:
10 Details About Gilles de Rais: Pedophile, Satanist, Murderer... Or the Most Misjudged Man in History
Gilles De Rais, The Child Serial Killer Who Fought Alongside Joan Of Arc Bear in mind that Joan of Arc appears to be an artifact parallel with Emilie Plater: Сбой в матрице или параллели истории (Russian) (Google English translation)

Papers about Gilles de Rais
Books about Gilles de Rais
Various Gilles de Rais pieces via Metager search engine



Alice11 said:


> why doesn’t Versailles have toilets?


Discussion - in Russian - of sanitation appearing to be an afterthought in old buildings: Единая планетарная архитектура 200 лет назад (Google English translation)

Oracle said:



> You might be interested to know that it was during Cromwell's time subduing Ireland, that there was a massive trade to England of Irish skulls to be powdered and for the skull moss. ( Did I already mention this before?)



More on skull moss: Мумиё. Ё - моё.. (in Russian) (Google English translation)

Skull moss is possibly related to a medical treatment called mumiyo/shilajit (in English):

7 Benefits of Mumiyo ( Shilajit )
The Only Objective Source of Information About Shilajit and Mumijo



> is essentially consisting of fresh and modified remnants of humus - the characteristic organic constituent of soils



Is the word 'humus' rooted in the word 'humans'?

Looking at the wider IHASFEMR possibilities... My conjecture has been that the church/state was a front for a profit-focused human meat and body parts trade; that this trade arose 1,000 years ago in response to flooding and subsequent famine. I focused on evidence found in England and North-West Europe.

Other physical evidence, and supporting folklore, suggests there is more to all this than a business opportunity in human body parts. That evidence is not in this thread because it needs a lot of organising and formatting.

However, it turns out a LiveJournal blog poster called Selenadia already did a lot of the work in 2013. And without limiting themselves to British and North West European evidence. They interpreted physical and symbolic evidence to show that non-humans have:

Parasitised humans and other Earth life,
Created creatures with desired attributes, instilling those properties in other creatures, and
Are preparing to become public, while maintaining their existing place at the top of Earth's lifeform hierarchy:
Selenadia's first blog has now vanished. But a second, still extant, blog continued this line of examination. It presents evidence that the churches and nation states:

institutionalised eating and processing of human-sourced material, and
managed human genetic breeding facilities, and
organised human participation via religions. And that
they did/do this on behalf of non-human 'ghouls', who
have a long-term goal and
a program to achieve that goal,
which we are in.
I like Selenadia's posts because their approach is 'evidence plus interpretation' rather than 'channeled from Uranus'. The posts deal with some of the artifacts highlighted in this IHASFEMR thread - bone processing, tops of skulls, afterbirth, human meat - but go much wider and deeper. For example, they spend more time on the evidence that humans were created by gene manipulation and on the entities that created and consume humans.

The posts are all in Russian. I've provided very brief English summaries here and Google translation links. Or you can browse them with Chromium and use its built-in translation mechanism.

1. This first post picks up from the last of Selenadia's missing posts by presenting evidence for 'primal Edema' bio-engineering facilities - facilities now known as historic cultural centres. It says bioengineered 'brewing' continues today.
Как нелюди затваривали мир. Часть I. (Google English translation)

2. Evidence that non-humans used ionisation and human bio matter ('frothy blood') to blend themselves into humans. References Christ's blood, communion, bleeding on the cross.
Как нелюди затваривали мир. Ч.2 (Google English translation)

3. Sarcophagi as containers for transporting and distributing bio-engineered material to humans as part of 'fertility rites'
Как нелюди затваривали мир. Ч.3 (Google English translation)

4. More sarcophagi; examples of museum sarcophagi exhibits (copies) that 'neglect' important sarcophagi features. Old stone statues are often hollow, and associated with (or marketed as) fertility enablers:
Как нелюди затваривали мир.Ч.4 (Google English translation)

5. Examples of drilled stone objects from around the world, some of which leaked brownish bio-material:
Как нелюди затваривали мир. Ч. II/1 (Google English translation)

6. Interpretations of various commonly-found animal symbols on old stone objects; central and southern American ruins are relics of destroyed experiments with human cultures. Focus of experiments has shifted to the Middle East:
Как нелюди затваривали мир. Ч. II/2 (Google English translation)

7. More on Middle Eastern disasters; interpretations of Middle Eastern ancient symbols as depictions of bio-engineering. Including the eight-pointed or eight-rayed star:
Как нелюди затваривали мир. Ч. II/3 (Google English translation)

8. Non-humans' Russian governmental representatives covering up current Siberian bio-engineered genocide; zombies, cannibalism, ossuaries (well-known and obscure):
Как нелюди затваривали мир. Ч. III/1 (Google English translation)

9. Orthodox church has ossuaries. Non-church ossuaries exist in different forms around the world. Post details example from Cambodia's Khmer Rouge. Highlights problems with evidence from Cambodia and Tuol Sleng prison to suggest the Khmer Rouge operation was a cover for biomaterial harvesting/genocide:
Как нелюди затваривали мир. Ч. III/2 (Google English translation)

10. More analysis of Cambodia/Khmer Rouge; origin/meaning of various double-headed symbols;
Как нелюди затваривали мир. Ч. III/3 (Google English translation)

All the above pages were collected into one:
Как нелюди затваривали мир. Продолжение тем "апокалипсиса" и "первоэдема" | Русские мы (Google English translation)

Plenty to digest there.

Returning to this thread's original proposition of North West European floods and famines being written out of English history and written in Belgian/Dutch/German/history as smaller events, we have evidence that entities called 'Peter' were perceived as a hungry, god-like entity:
Beacons of Nordfriesland

And more on North Sea flood events at https://frisiacoasttrail.blog/2020/10/14/half-a-million-deaths-a-forgotten-north-sea-disaster/ which enhances Paul Budde's Belgian/Dutch flood + famine event list at: Climate Change, Floods, Famine and the Black Death – Paul Budde History, Philosophy, Culture


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## usselo (Jul 27, 2021)

Tim Cullen takes on mainstream history's chronology of North-West European floods. The PDF is linked to at Finistere Catastrophes Chronology, where the comments are worth reading.

Cullen's significant flood years are:

807 AD
1172 AD
1287 AD
1570 AD
The 1570 AD flood continued as rising sea levels into the early 18th Century before falling (if I understood Cullen correctly). Chronologically, a long 1570 flood is a good fit with evidence that Britain's industrial revolution was the result of humans taking over their predecessors' remaining technologies.

Moving back one flood, Tim Cullen has also presented evidence of 'a dreadful storm' or major sea 'trangression' into mainland England around 1287. And 1285 AD is cited in I G Simmons of Durham (UK) University Geography department's study of sea level change and flood defences in east Lincolnshire:, which notes in  Margins of the East Fen: Historic Landscape Evolution : Section 3 - Comparisons - Durham University:
​


> the period after about 1285 when sea-level rise began to flood river basins so as to produce the [Norfolk] Broads (Google maps) and to make problems in Wainfleet Haven (Google Maps) and the East Fen. Whatever was protecting Skegness seems to have been successful until perhaps the fifteenth century


​When reading Victoria County History records, you'll often find variants of this chronology of the prosperity of Thorney Abbey, Cambridgeshire:


> In 1291, when the abbey was at the height of its prosperity, its temporalities (meaning: assets) in Thorney were valued at £46 19_s_. In 1539-40 the value had fallen to £34 13_s_. 4_d_.



Translation:


> The abbey raked in the moolah until 1291; then its Net Asset Value (NAV) began to fall as sea levels rose until it was 'surrendered' to the epic flood we know as the 1540 Dissolution.



*Side-note*: Only a coincidence theorist would notice the 1291 sea level rise is close to England's first 'Dissolution': the 1308-1312 dissolution of the Knights Templar and Knights of St Lazarus - whose mudflooded monasteries were inherited by the Knights Hospitaller. Or that from 1538 onwards, the remains of the Thorney site were leased to _'Walter Williams or Crumwell of Chatteris'_; Chatteris being located between the various farms inherited and acquired by Oliver Cromwell. 

The Durham team have plenty more for flood nerds:

Various sea level rises. Source: Margins of the East Fen: Historic Landscape Evolution : Appendix 2.1.A Weather, Climate, Sea-Level and Floods in Medieval Times - Durham University
More sea level rise and flood dates. Source: Margins of the East Fen: Historic Landscape Evolution : 2.2 From 1100 - 1500: The Coast - Durham University
Notes odd lack of records of flood destruction but later notes that reports of lost harbours (havens) provide clues to flooding events. Source: Margins of the East Fen: Historic Landscape Evolution : 2.2 From 1100 - 1500: The Coast - Durham University. See also section: 2.2.2.3 Other Havens? and 2.2.2.4 General Observations on Havens
Dutch term for wind-driven high water is 'water-wolf'. Source: Margins of the East Fen: Historic Landscape Evolution : Section 3 - Comparisons - Durham University (Lincolnshire has 'supernatural wolf' mythology)
Simmons doesn't speculate about what caused these sea level changes. Cullen thinks tectonic-scale crustal movements caused them. That is: wide area earthquakes.

Do we have have evidence of earthquakes around these flood years?

Musson's _The seismicity of the British Isles to 1600_ reviewed early British earthquake reports. It supports major earthquake events around the same times as Cullen's and Simmons floods, though not 708. It's interesting reading: for some unexplored reason, Britain and parts of north-west Europe experienced wide area earthquakes in medieval times. Then they stopped.

Why then? And why not now? Do earthquake zones migrate? Do they come and go?

Orthodoxy says the Romans left Britain in the fifth century. Alt-history says the Pompeii evidence points to a Roman ending around 1631. We can leave orthodoxy for the orthodox and instead, ask ourselves if the disappearance of the Romans from Britain might be connected to the medieval earthquakes.

Perhaps the onset of the Little Ice Age was also connected in some way. Perhaps to Romans' disappearance (or their transformatinon into something else), perhaps to the flooding, perhaps to the Welland's silting up, perhaps to the shortage of labour afterwards.

From _Little Ice Age by Michael Mann_:



> In Switzerland, for example, the first particularly cold winters appear to have begun in the 1550s, with  cold  springs  beginning around  1568:  the  year 1573 had  the  first  unusually cold summer (Pfister,  1995).  The increased variability of the climate may have led to alternations  between  unusually  cold  winters  and  relatively  warm summers.
> 
> A  severe  winter  preceded  the  hot  summer  that precipitated  the  Great  Fire  of  London  in  1666.  A  harsh winter followed by a warm summer may have added to the discontent  of  peasants  who  stormed  the  Bastille  in  Paris during the summer of 1789.



Interesting that Switzerland should start to see cold weather about the time (ten years later) that this bizarre statue (mentioned earlier) was erected in Berne, Switzerland:


_History in your face. The Kindlifresser. __Source_​
Perhaps flood-fearing entities set themselves up in Switzerland around that time. Or perhaps they used climate freezing as part of quarrying operations.

Not far from Thorney and ten miles north of the mudflooded 'Roman' port of Castor (Durobrivae) - featured in SH Archive - Clueless Historians in Castor, UK: Roman this, Roman that... - is Stamford. While Durobrivae was a major Roman port until it was mudflooded, Stamford was a major medieval port until its river - the River Welland - silted up was blocked by 'mill builders' some time before 1571. The link describes how the Stamford Canal was built to reconnect silted Stamford to the sea via a port at Market Deeping, six miles downstream. The Stamford Canal has a puzzling history.

It's puzzling because:

There are no engineering documents for the canal and few documents of any other kind related to it.
There are quicker, cheaper ways to deal with watermills blocking trade to a major port (and their owners) than by hand-building a six mile, 12-lock canal.
The canal's construction was legislated for in 1571 - 50 years before work actually began. Work was delayed due lack of contractors with canal-building skills.
Once started, the canal took a century to finish.
The canal's completion occurred 100 years before Britain's Industrial Revolution, making it one of the first canals dug in Britain after the Romans left.
Possibly, there are perfectly orthodox explanations for the delays and lack of documentation. However, Simmons and his Durham team noted the odd unavailability of some Lincolnshire records for their research on flooding 30 miles north east of Stamford. And although it wasn't in Simmons' remit, there is anecdotal evidence that parish records were removed and/or stolen from fenland Lincolnshire churches and houses during the 18th century. Absence of the usual written evidence suggests attempts to hide the real history of the area.

Possibly, the puzzles are simply that the Stamford Canal was an early attempt by the English to build an ambitious, 12-lock canal at the start of a crop-killing, people-killing Little Ice Age, just as John Dee and colleagues discover science, maths and navigation and Britain's elites begin colonising the world.

Possibly, the canal was an existing mudflooded canal that was partially dug out, in which case the delays might have been due to post-flood shortages of any kind of human labour. Or shortages of the skills required to repair and/or build 12 canal locks. Or both.

Regardless, once finished, Stamford's new canal joined the River Welland a mile west of Market Deeping. Most of what remains today is dry except for the last mile or so before it joins the River Welland. Maps mark its remains as 'River Welland', though it is obviously a cut-off canal - its course is straighter and its waters are visibly slower flowing than the Welland's.

That's where another puzzle emerges. For about half a mile before reaching the two bridges that cross the two watercourses, northbound drivers on the A15 Market Deeping bypass get the impression they are driving uphill. Checked on a topographical map, it turns out they are correct. They are driving uphill towards a canal and a river.

It's reasonable for a canal's course to follow higher ground. It is not reasonable for a natural river's course to follow higher ground. The video below shows the two Wellands' routes over high ground (lighter blue), skirting lower ground (deeper blue verging on purple) to their right. The Stamford Canal and the River Welland emerge at bottom left and flow diagonally up and to the right (north east) before turning right (east) and meeting up just inside the A15 bypass.





Your browser is not able to display this video.



_Mouse cursor 'taps' show the height above sea level in each location (in feet)._

The most reasonable explanation is that the River Welland was also canalised and forced to join the Stamford Canal rather than take its natural course across the low ground to east-south-east. That would suggest an effort to create a well-watered 'river' port on higher ground at Market Deeping.

Perhaps the canal's missing documentation would explain the River Welland's seemingly artificial course. But it would be a breakthrough if its documentation were found because the River Welland isn't the only Lincolnshire river with an 'enigmatic' course. In fact, the Welland is one of the few Lincolnshire rivers whose enigmatic course has not already been puzzled over in some geographer's academic paper.

Market Deeping also boasts a few puzzles of its own. It's eastern extension - upmarket Deeping St James - has a former market cross with the remains of a small gaol (jail) built into its base. With:


> enough room for three people to fit inside.​




_Remains of Deeping St James' cross, circa 1965. __Source_​
Jail? Or a market day pen for small, sentient produce and slaves?


_It really is in your face. Circa earlier. __Source_​
Market Deeping's central market cross is one of 10,000 (out of around 12,000) crosses that were destroyed by alleged 'iconoclasts' in the 16th and 17th centuries (Source).

Just like nearby Stamford, Market Deeping seems remarkably well-connected to English royalty. From the same source as the above image:



> East Deeping became a wealthy place and gained guildhalls, a courthouse, market crosses and schools.  Margaret Beaufort (mother of Henry VII) was Lady of Deeping and took an active interest in her lands.



Condensing other parts of that page:


> In late medieval times, the Manor House, West Deeping – now known as ‘The Granary’ - was owned by Margaret Beaufort, mother of Henry VII*.* The current building dates from 1643 and comes complete with a moat. (Google Maps), (Google Streetview)



And - again from the same source - what provoked Elizabeth I to order a survey of her lands in East Deeping in 1538?

But that page may also hold a clue to the missing Stamford Canal documentation, the gravity-defying course of the River Welland and the possibility that Market Deeping was created around an artificially created river port:


> The turning point for the communities came when the Norman Richard De Rulos married into the Wake family of Bourne and took control of the area.
> 
> He raised a “_high bank (for the river often overflowed), creating a great village_”. The fen became _“the most fruitful fields and a garden of pleasure”._



You really should be concerned at finding another reference to a Norman 'garden of pleasure', but at least we now have a provisional explanation for the apparent canalisation of the River Welland. And a competing build date for the Stamford Canal, not to mention Market Deeping itself: during the first two decades of the 12th Century.

Now that is counter-narrative!

Another mystery is how some of Market Deeping's old stone houses acquired their cute, but unfeasibly low, front doors. The image shows one of a handful of Deeping doors that are about 5 ft, one inch high. The striped pole in the image is 2 m (6 ft, 6 in) long - more or less the same height as a standard modern door.



_Church Street, Market Deeping (Google Maps), (Google Streetview)_​Deeping is well-known for its low front doors. It is not well-known for its tall front doors. That's because their original height has been hidden.

A couple of houses up the street from the cute-doored house above is the White Horse pub. Its doorway has been shortened with a crude stone infill:


_White Horse, Church Street, Market Deeping (Google Maps), (Google Streetview)_​
What would we find if we removed the grandiose triangular portico affair above the infill? Would we find the original doorway was even higher than the top edge of the visible infill?

Before we explore a possible answer to that question, let's note that shrinking front doors are common all over eastern England. Usually these front doorways are arched. In poorer buildings - those whose front door opens directly on to the street - their original height has been reduced by a plywood cover-board nailed to a poorly-fitting wood frame. In posher buildings - meaning: buildings with front gardens - the door height has usually been reduced with well-fitting glass 'fanlights'.

From Glemsford, Suffolk:

_The Rectory, Glemsford, Suffolk (Google Maps), (Google Streetview)_​
Some have been reduced with a brick infill. An example from Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk:

_Build an arch, lay bricks beneath it _​
If you get bored of English doors, try Doors for Giants (Russian), (English translation). But if you aren't bored, let's go back to Market Deeping and see if we can find any clues about what was might have been hidden behind the White Horse's portico.

About 250 yards south of the White Horse is this building. An inscription in the wooden lintel about window dates it to "Anno Domini 1640":

_Looks like being 9ft tall went out of fashion (Google Maps), (Google Streetview)_​The striped pole shows this doorway is 3m (10 ft) high. A stable door perhaps? The average stable door is 2.085m (6 ft, 10 in) high. The shorter door at the far end of the stone building is part of a later extension or rebuild. The even shorter blue door (in the white building at the left of the image) is modern standard door height.

Once you develop an eye for how door heights have been discretely reduced, you find them everywhere, at least in eastern England. Like English churches, they are a ubiquitous feature of the built environment. And like almost all English churches - their construction history is missing.

A bit like the Stamford Canal.

England's built environment is like a stage-set, a stage-set hastily adapted for people our size. Why is it like this? Is something being hidden?

Given that flood events are also missing from English history but somewhat present in Belgian, Dutch and German history, and given that the Dutch flood accounts often report floods as having been worse in England, is it possible that England's floods involved realities that have also been hidden?

The same flood years - and later on, fire years - come up time and time again. The same mysterious gaps in documentation and the same explanations come up time and time again. Summarising what the clues left at the scene say about climate and chronology, they seem to say: sea levels rose from 1285 onwards, until a 1540 flood event. That event was a cold, wet start to a multi-year process that seems to have culminated in the late 18th century with fire and fighting. And perhaps these processes led to our current level of 'freedom'.





your_browser_is_not_able_to_play_this_audio



_Animal Farm by George Orwell. First paragraph_

Key entities in Animal Farm:

Jones = Géants = Giants
Snowball = ? One possibility: Другая история Земли. Часть 1а. (Russian), (English translation). Perhaps 'Snowball' is a euphemism for that 1540 cold, wet start?
Napoleon = Unconvincing historical figure(s), but perhaps a euphemism for the fire and fighting at the end of these processes?
Manor Farm = ? Let's see...
Chicken farm = A farm for chickens
Sheep farm = A farm for sheep
Cattle farm = A farm for cattle
Deer farm - A farm for deer
Fish farm = A farm for fish
Oyster farm = A farm for oysters


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## Oracle (Jul 29, 2021)

usselo said:


> Thanks - appreciate the kudos.
> 
> I've looked online for references to the avenue of skulls but not found it. It was easier to find material on the therapeutic uses of skull moss. Eg: https://hekint.org/2019/08/29/cranium-the-symbolic-powers-of-the-skull/
> 
> ...


I'm not sure actually if it was online or in a book I downloaded. Hard to keep track when I read such a wide variety of subjects and little titbits like that occur in so many things I read on larger subjects.

Exit to add: I've finally caught up again although without following most links you've posted as it is late.
If you're researching floods if you haven't already read it, then reading the book Oera Linda might add to your knowledge.
Also with regard to earthquakes cycling, I've been researching catastrophism lately and I came across a guy who seems to have proved that yes they do and it's in relation to particular planetary alignments.
I'll look tomorrow night and see if I can find you a link.


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## usselo (Aug 1, 2021)

Oracle said:


> I'm not sure actually if it was online or in a book I downloaded. Hard to keep track when I read such a wide variety of subjects and little titbits like that occur in so many things I read on larger subjects.


It *is* hard to keep track. It's got easier since I started using Obsidian. Took a while to get my head around it but it has been worth the effort. Especially for drafting posts that collect varied sources and multimedia.

So when YouTube destroys your carefully-crafted penknife gag by hiccuping the video of a sword-wielding Russian woman in a wine-bar embedded in post-10005, Obsidian helps you super-quickly find and upload the copy you made earlier. The full video is at _https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aqn7Umb-_Yh_, but for the swordplay-hesitant, here's a short clip:





Your browser is not able to display this video.





Oracle said:


> Exit to add: I've finally caught up again although without following most links you've posted as it is late.
> If you're researching floods if you haven't already read it, then reading the book Oera Linda might add to your knowledge.
> Also with regard to earthquakes cycling, I've been researching catastrophism lately and I came across a guy who seems to have proved that yes they do and it's in relation to particular planetary alignments.
> I'll look tomorrow night and see if I can find you a link.



Yes, I would appreciate a link to the planetary alignment => earthquake link if you can find it. I saw it in January but didn't appreciate its significance. And I'll take your advice on the Oera Linda. Skimming it, I'm most interested in the *causes* of the catastrophes it references. They are the elephants in the room. They've left huge footprints all over eastern England.

SH.org user Llend outlined a possible big picture explanation that seems to fit well:

Our Timeline Could Be Much Shorter Than We Think: post 2100
Our Timeline Could Be Much Shorter Than We Think: post 2112
I don't know if Llend's proposition is correct or not. However, their high-level explanation is a good fit both for the evidence I've posted and for evidence I haven't. I don't know if SH.org's Llend is the same Llend that posts on this board.

Similarly, Akanah's reference to the North Sea in their post at SH Archive - A Faustian Bargain?  The First Pope may well be relevant if it were unpacked a bit. That is just intuition speaking. A guess.

When I first posted the Market Deeping post above, I thought it was one of my crappiest. Except possibly for the supporting evidence it provided for Tim Cullen's and Simmons' flood dates. Having edited and added to it over the last week I'm hoping it is now much better. Read it carefully and perhaps you can:

Begin to see why this part of England - the fens around ('The Wash' (Google Maps)) - produces so many inconsistencies. AKA 'reveals' or in card players' terms: 'tells'.
Appreciate that something historically important about this part of England has been hidden.
I'd like more evidence before I go making outlandish claims.  But in case anyone else is thinking along these lines, I'm wondering about:

Why Lincolnshire was once the most densely populated county in England - before becoming almost the least densely populated.
The oddness around the eight king Henries, especially the last one, who had six wives because... no son.
It strikes me that if you were taking control of a devastated land that was previously seven kingdoms, then a practical approach to staking your claim might be to blend the memories and records of the seven pre-flood kings into one entity with six wives. This to:

Stuff credibility into a made-up history by rearranging the previous rulers from parallel kingdoms into a line of rulers that ended with no issue.
Reduce the consistency problems - and legal risks - of the lies being found inconsistent with any surviving records, and
"reconstruct a new landed aristocracy on the ruins of the old" (see here if you enjoy the detail)
So, from a history fabricator's perspective: rewrite the receding sea - (_sea_ in Romance languages: _Mar/Mare_ => _Marie_) - as a short-term royal phenomenon called Queen Mary; have her preceded by a single larger-than-life king (Henry VIII); have her succeeded by Queen Elizabeth I, and with that you are ready to sail out and colonise a drowned world complete with a new history. A duct-taped history, but intact and good enough for a new nation to rally around.

It's a nutty story of course but it:

Fills in the blanks in the inadequately explained end of England's seven 'Saxon' kingdoms.
Fits with the strange mix of English vocabularies: eg Doggerel (AKA 'Anglo-Saxon') and French,
Explains the possessions and interests of the Dukedoms, and
explains the absurd history - and architecture - of places like Thorney (Google Maps), (Google Streetview). I mean, just read it.
And much, much else.
Visually, the key to understanding it is this:

_Europe's North Sea coasts under a four meter sea-level rise_​
It's based on the second flood map in Paul Budde's North West Europe flood chronology (which Oracle referenced in the Cannibalism thread). The above flood map applies to England the same sea level rise that Budde's flood map shows as having inundated the Belgian and Dutch coasts:



_Source: __https://paulbuddehistory.com/europe/the-great-death/_​
The Durham University Geography team briefly mentioned the possibility of there having been seven or eight meter high floods in eastern England. That would look like this:

_Europe's North Sea coasts under a seven meter sea-level rise_​
And, IIRC, they mention the possibility of a 12 m flood. That would look like this:

_Europe's North Sea coasts under a 12 m sea-level rise_​
On the face of it, any of these floods were pretty bad news for Holland and less bad for England.

Though how bad depends what was in that part of England before 'Queen Mary' sat on the throne.


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## Oracle (Aug 9, 2021)

Y


usselo said:


> It *is* hard to keep track. It's got easier since I started using Obsidian. Took a while to get my head around it but it has been worth the effort. Especially for drafting posts that collect varied sources and multimedia.
> 
> So when YouTube destroys your carefully-crafted penknife gag by hiccuping the video of a sword-wielding Russian woman in a wine-bar embedded in post-10005, Obsidian helps you super-quickly find and upload the copy you made earlier. The full video is at _https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aqn7Umb-_Yh_, but for the swordplay-hesitant, here's a short clip:
> 
> ...


Yes,I was working on a thread for the Oera Linda book when sh.net began, specifically aimed at trying to correlate chronology of world flooding with  it's story but it fell to the wayside ( although one day maybe I'll revisit that research which I still have ,uncompleted).

I did find that reference I mentioned earlier some weeks ago, but haven't been here much and if you will forgive me dear Usselo, it is actually an important part of a thread I am working on with regard to recurring Cataclysms and human consciousness so I will hang on to it selfishly for now.


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## usselo (Aug 15, 2021)

Oracle said:


> I did find that reference I mentioned earlier some weeks ago, but haven't been here much and if you will forgive me dear Usselo, it is actually an important part of a thread I am working on with regard to recurring Cataclysms and human consciousness so I will hang on to it selfishly for now.


Not a problem!

Now catching up on unresponded comments...

6079smithw said:


> Thos thread is depressing and very disturbing.
> Ps, someone refers to the observation deck homeless man video. I couldn't find it on youtube - has it been purged?



The video 6079smithw referred to (was in this post) and is now unavailable. This clip shows the relevant part:




Your browser is not able to display this video.



_Confrontation over homeless man taken away, declared dead. Source: __Observation Deck. YT channel_

The above footage emerged around the time 'opt-out' organ harvesting became UK law (22 May 2020), along with the following reassurance:





Your browser is not able to display this video.



_"There was an absolutely extraordinary response", Regime Empath Louise Casey. __Source_

I asked a homeless guy - let's call him Chris - if he had been 'brought in' during the Covid lockdowns. Chris said he and his mates had got as far away as they could, apparently fleeing into the countryside.

When they came back, he pitched his tent out of sight in woods on the edge of town. At 3AM, the police turfed him out. He said:



> Why did it have to be 3AM? Why not 6AM?



A rhetorical question, but it does have an answer:





Your browser is not able to display this video.



_We know who they are and where they are living. UK Housing Secretary Robert Jendrick. __Source_

Jendrick went on to say rough sleepers will be introduced to the private rental sector. That probably won't turn out well given the state's own white papers about problems with the private rental sector.

In about 2015, UK entities like the Bank of England and think-tanks like the Rowntree Foundation were discussing obstacles to the introduction of a UK state digital currency. They wanted transactions to be linked to identifiable individuals. But to do that, all individuals had to be verifiably identified beforehand. One of the obstacles to this was the 'un-addressed'. On any given night, around 90,000 individuals were visibly sleeping rough. But up to 1.1m individuals were 'un-addressed'. These were identified as couch-surfers, workplace-sleepers and car/van sleepers. The invisible homeless.

It is conceivable that behind global lockdown's freezing of individual movement was an attempt to link various phone hardware and software identifiers, location-habits and contact-habits to un-addressed individuals on a global scale. Examined in this way, the above clip could be seen as Jendrick admitting the lockdown scheme had been 'largely' successful in the UK.

Although state/bank digital currencies are contentious, questions of the rightness or wrongness of digital currencies, state/bank digital currencies, central bank fiat-creation, etc, become small concerns when considered against the probability that humanity is being farmed and - judging by the experiences of people like Chris - farmed very poorly.  Just my personal view.

As for Chris, he is still in a tent but - good news - he still has his organs.

Sapiot said:


> Might be for sucking liquid, like a drinking straw. Maybe the saying to scramble your brain was because they literally did that, resulting in a soup or slurry.



Gypsum Fantastic said:


> They... were on Earth to harvest humans for food. Stored in pink cocoons where the body slowly was turned into a pink/red gloopy substance, which they drank through straws like a milkshake. Daft as this all sounds could be another of Hollywood's 'hidden in plain sight', albeit in a completely exaggerated way of course.







Your browser is not able to display this video.



_Note the bubbles in the blood__. Source: Killer Clowns from Outer Space, 1988_

This scene may not be completely exaggerated.

Another straw-sucking moment from Futurama:




Your browser is not able to display this video.



_Futurama S01, Ep07_

Some observations about Killer Clowns from Outer Space:

The acting is hammy. Especially by the actors playing humans. Ham...
The film's humans vary from hysterical to rigid-minded but all are generally a bit slow off the mark.
The clowns work well individually and together.
The humans are divided by poorly contained emotional impulses (love seeking, love conflicts) and workplace resentments.
The clowns' physical appearance and bumbling gait makes them look clumsy but really, they are dexterous and very competent.
The clowns are good at manipulating the environment to the point where they are having fun as they go about harvesting humans. That playful approach to their work is usually absent from human organisations.
The clowns are notably good at chemistry, presumably enzyme chemistry.
The clowns understand how humans think, feel, and how humans will react.
The clowns tend to use stage-sets and stage effects to disorient and confuse humans. They understand this as an area of human weakness and the clowns exploit it.
And, with that last item in mind, perhaps consider reading the first part of this post again.


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## DanFromMN (Aug 25, 2021)

usselo said:


> Tim Cullen takes on mainstream history's chronology of North-West European floods. The PDF is linked to at Finistere Catastrophes Chronology, where the comments are worth reading.
> 
> Cullen's significant flood years are:
> 
> ...


lots of writing by this "Cullin" guy.  

Could that be a nod to events where they're "cullin' " humans?


usselo said:


> Tim Cullen takes on mainstream history's chronology of North-West European floods. The PDF is linked to at Finistere Catastrophes Chronology, where the comments are worth reading.
> 
> Cullen's significant flood years are:
> 
> ...


lots of writing by this "Cullin" guy.  

Could that be a nod to events where they're "cullin' " humans?


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## Razumov (Aug 26, 2021)

The founder of Russian Hominidology and head of the Snowman commision Boris Porshnev wrote his final masterwork at the end of his life. In it he theorized that the ancient Troglodytes kept humans as food.

Russian Wikipedia entry through Google translate


> The  book develops a hypothesis about how further interaction of the newly  emerged ancient man and troglodytes in a single environment led to an  increase in the mechanisms of inhibition and prohibition - the humans and Neanderthals coexisted within the same community, and *individuals of the human species served as the main food of troglodytes.* Subsequently, this led to the consolidation in human culture of sacrifices and initiation rites that mimic death.


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## huskofahuman (Aug 26, 2021)

This dude thinks that they didn't create us, they just merely modified us.  I really like how he thinks, he has a lot of good videos. Check him out.


_View: https://www.bitchute.com/video/mcgfN7ZTVdU/_


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## solarbard (Aug 27, 2021)

There was a cannibal giant named Tartaro (Tartarian?) in Basque legends. Just throwing that out there.


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## Oracle (Aug 29, 2021)

The whole Clown thing I find particularly creepy!

I recently was drawn into the history of Alchemy as part of my research. In the book Fulcanelli master alchemist, he largely hints at the fact that part of the process of creating the Philosopher's Stone in one method was the putrification of freshly killed infants, and the use of the resulting mess in the formula, for the harvesting of the human soul or living waters. There is an old sketch which I think may have on my laptop which was referenced. Now since all the secrets of Alchemy are hidden in code and allegories, it may well not exactly be the drawing out of the human Soul in this manner he was refering to, but it sure seemed to be. His apparent disgust made him only briefly mention it and he specifically said that  was different to  the usual method which he was describing.
I'll see if I can find more on this tonight when on my laptop.


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## usselo (Aug 29, 2021)

DanFromMN said:


> Could that be a nod to events where they're "cullin' " humans?



 Could be. Cullen is very suspicious of Covid-vaccine marketing and post-vaccination death rates. See Medicine – MalagaBay

Razumov said:


> he theorized that the ancient Troglodytes kept humans as food.



Thanks for that fascinating link. I wish GCHQ would translate this stuff into English instead of pissing time and money away on domestic foreign surveillance.

But then, who knows, perhaps they are forging it - along with much of the material we examine.

huskofahuman said:


> Check him out.



Will do.

solarbard said:


> There was a cannibal giant named Tartaro (Tartarian?) in Basque legends.



Thanks, I would like to see native-language Basque speakers tell us more about legends like these and their contexts.

Oracle said:


> one method was the putrification of freshly killed infants, and the use of the resulting mess, for the harvesting of the human soul



Harvesting putrefaction products could be the goal of the practices mentioned here, here, as well as the post above. It seems to me modern airships lift less weight for a given balloon volume than early 20th century airships did. So I wonder if there is an unpublicised lighter-than-air component in putrefaction gases. But that's an experiment for another day.

Controlled putrefaction would have been important to entities eating humans. We touched on our owners lacto-fermenting newborn human babies over at The Nephilim Looked Like Clowns (conspiracy-r-us). And on the problems around Britain's 'Roman' baby remains in push4more's post:



> Isn't one of the main cannibalistic traces being scratched and sliced "bone". Are there significant archeological digs? Where



and in the subsequent post.

We also have archaeologists turning up dead Roman-era newborns interred in odd places and - in a couple of cases - bearing hard-to-explain cut marks. Archaeologists have not agreed an explanation.

I think we can untangle enough of the puzzles to at least suggest a testable hypothesis about what was going on. We should bear in mind that the baby remains mentioned below may well be at least 1,000 years younger than we're told. Perhaps around 400-500 years old max. That's just my view, based on evidence that the first millennium AD was made up, that the Romans are the Normans are the Crusaders are... whatever else. Also, I'm not sure my later digression into the true nature of fine art really helps this post but for the moment I've left it in.

Let's take archaeologists' own data as a starting point and pay attention to their struggles as they try to match the forensic data to even their 'best-fit' theory.

The below summary lists are extracted from the following infanticide papers, with an emphasis on the first in the list:

An Infant Femur Bearing Cut Marks from Roman Hambleden England - S. Mays et al
Infant and Child Burial Rites in Roman Britain - A Study from East Yorkshire - Martin Millett and Rebecca Gowland
Infanticide in Roman Britain - A Critical Review of the Osteological Evidence - Laura Bonsall
Infanticide in Roman Britain - Simon Mays
Unpicking a Myth - The Infanticide of Female and Disabled Infants in Antiquity - Author Eleanor Scott
From these papers, we can summarise the situation archaeologists are in.

Summary of the puzzle:

Baby bone finds don't match archaeologists' theories about how they died.
Baby bone finds don't match archaeologists' theories about why they were killed.
Almost none are premature births.
Almost none are disabled/deformed.
Most baby remains are full-term newborns (38-41 week-old foetuses).
But they aren't buried in cemeteries with adults and kids.
Their bones are usually found in pots...
'Buried' inside houses...
And outbuildings...
Often near stoves.
Summarising where newborn baby bones tend to be found:

Around Roman 'baths'
In sewers
In houses and outbuildings.
Summarising archaeologists' "They killed them because..." theories:

They killed disabled babies... However, newborn baby bones rarely show evidence of disability.
They killed ugly babies... You just have to make your own call on that one. I'll just point out that, if so, the full claim would have to be: "they killed ugly babies, stuffed them in pots, and buried them inside their houses by the walls." If you've ever killed an ugly baby, you'll know this is nonsense. You want that thing out of the house.
Disgrace-fearing single mothers stashed them in holes scratched in the floor, presumably when no-one was looking... I guess the archaeologists' envision that you'd hide your last three months of 'expansion', then practice 'induce and inter' at a convenient moment when no-one was looking.
A variant of the above - presumably - is that everyone knew you were a single mother and made you live with your shame by forcing you to bury your newly-killed disgrace under your floor. A sort of educational device... But even archaeologists point out this kind of thinking is more suited to minds stained by Victorian moral norms than Roman norms.
It was population control... You know how that goes.
They killed girls... But, in as much as sex can be determined, the majority of newborn bones are male.
Summarising archaeologists' "They killed them in this way..." theories:

One theory is that unwanted babies were left out on hillsides (exposure death). This theory attempts to explain why Roman cemeteries contain so few newborn's bones. So, claims the theory, that's why the only surviving bones are those found in former buildings.
The primary kill theory explored in Mays' paper is that some babies died and/or were killed during birth even if wanted. During obstructed deliveries, both mother and baby were at risk and likely to die of complications. So, if complications did arise the best option was to focus on saving the mother, kill the baby if necessary and dispose of it.
These deliveries required no exposure of the baby and so their bones should show up in cemeteries or somewhere.

However, the whole "Roman childbirth was a desperate affair" meme falls apart when corpses are examined. For example, in the parts of three so-far excavated Roman cemeteries in Winchester - the fifth biggest Roman town in Britain - only one female skeleton was found with baby bones inside. Another female skeleton was found with newborn baby remains close by but that find does not mean the mother and child died at childbirth.

In other words, there is little evidence of difficult births in Roman times.

If you read these papers, you see the evidence fits no known theory and the theories are a poor fit for the evidence. In fact, the evidence contradicts the theories. One archaeologist claims infanticide theories have been constructed around historians' opinions - with little reference to physical evidence found by archaeologists.

To avoid laboriously going through each paper, take it from me that many newborns' bones are found in pots in houses and outbuildings, usually by walls, often near ovens. If you can't take it from me, by all means read the papers (if you have access) and take it from their authors instead.

_

Interior 'internment' locations. __Source_​
The blobs shown within the lines are 'internments'. Very regularly spaced 'internments'. This isn't a one accident-prone mum.

Let's zoom in on the cut marks described in _Mays, S., Robson-Brown, K., Vincent, S., Eyers, J., King, H., and Roberts, A. 2012: ‘An infant femur bearing cut marks from Roman Hambleden, England’, International Journal of Osteoarchaeology 24, 111–15_:

_
Cut marks on right femur of newborn infant, Hambledon Roman villa, UK_
_Source_​
Quoting from the paper:


> possibility is that the cut marks were formed during an obstetric operation... embryotomy (the extraction of undeliverable live or dead newborn).





> Although the cut marks seen in burial 38 do not extend to the proximal extremity of the foetal femur, they could represent adventitious cuts as the surgeon attempted to locate the hip joint of the breech-presenting foetus to disarticulate the legs and ease delivery



Technically, I think that might be a foetotomy, but it doesn't matter in the context of our examination.

We should note here that Mays mentions another example of similar marks from a hundred miles or so west at Poundbury Camp, Dorset. There are papers on the Poundbury Camp baby cut-marks but I don't have access to them. The only detail I have is Mays' comment that its cut marks were found on the same part of the femur.

Returning to Mays...



> In most of these historical descriptions of embryotomy, it is the arms, not the legs, that are seen as causing most difficulty in extracting the body and that need to be removed.



Putting that quote in layman's terms:

Hands and arms are not a useful part of failed deliveries and can be cut off to ease  extraction of the rest of the body, head, etc.
Feet and legs are a useful part of failed deliveries - dead or living - because they can be roped with a rag and used to pull the body out.
From the same paper:


> [cuts were] ...created around the time of death of the infant (or at least when the bone was still fresh enough to retain its slight elasticity)





> unlikely to be immediately related to the cause of death... unlikely that they were inflicted with the intent of killing the infant; there are no major blood vessels in this region.





> Evidence of the practice of defleshing has been established in other Romano-British skeletal remains





> lack of any convincing cut marks elsewhere on the skeleton makes it improbable that the marks on the femur were part of a systematic defleshing process



Mays is correct that this wasn't about de-fleshing the baby. Nevertheless, the cut marks are also on the wrong limb and in the wrong place on the wrong limb for this to be a typical embyotomy. I'm not saying Mays is wrong to claim this bone evidences embryotomy. I am claiming that the explanation is a stretch because the evidence does not match common embryotomy practice.

Mays' paper fails to consider the possibility that:

The infant was butchered (for immediate eating or for preparation as a lacto-ferment). And that:
Butchers and tanners could be expected to de-fat and skin the carcass prior to fermenting or curing it.
Dealing with the meat-preservation aspect first. Today, we generally lacto-ferment in pots. In lacto-fermentation, the product has to be kept completely below the surface of the salty liquid in which it ferments. Product exposed to the air above the liquid will putrefy. Usually, it is kept fully immersed by keeping it pressed down under a flat, weighted plate.

But not all baby bones are 'buried' in pots. A few are found 'buried' under broken tiles. A few are 'casually interred'. A location analysis of baby remains and, in particular, baby and soil remains found under tiles would help us a lot. The tiles suggest bones and meat were being weighed down, but there are no reports of the surrounding pot that would have contained the ferment. To get to the bottom of this, we need a better understanding of the find circumstances for those bones found under tiles but not in pots.

Some preservation techniques require the product to be wrapped in something porous, then allowed to drip dry. We do something similar with cheese and many salami style sausages. The casual baby remains found may have been preserved using similar techniques.

Salt-curing should also not be dismissed. Salt-curing would provide one source of demand for the astonishing extent of salt-harvesting in eastern England a few hundred years ago.

Another scenario, used in the past and in our time, is to string carcasses and hang them from walls and ceilings so they cure on the bone. Refer to the 'meathook merchandise' photograph in this post. Usually you'd leave more space for air flow than is shown in that image. However we don't know the real history of the two bodies shown. They may have been re-hung by the kindly monks credited with placing them in their current positions. There are many clues that English churches were involved in human meat preservation. The strange resemblance of louvered church belfries to drying sheds and smokehouses, the references to hooks built into in the walls of church and castle towers 'for prisoners', the widespread destruction of churches and particularly church towers by 1830, the destruction of most village market crosses.

We're left with another puzzle: if they were being preserved for table, why would human meat products be buried?

It's probably already clear but I don't think there is sufficient evidence that these babies were deliberately buried. Instead, it seems likely that at least one flood or mudflood went through skulleries and meat-sheds. They left potted and cured human remains below ground and easily mistaken or deliberate burials. With this scenario in mind, imagine mudflood hitting an outbuilding or skullery stocked with cured babies. It's a scenario that makes sense of diagrams like the above.

We can attack this problem from the opposite direction: if we accept mudflood has swamped the ground floors of many stone and brick buildings, why would we think mudflood had not buried potted products stacked on floors and air-curing products hanging from ceilings?

Once we think of these sites as butchers' sheds and skulleries we can see why some products would be carefully removed and processed separately. Human skin products have very different uses and very different preparation requirements. SH.net has covered aspects of this before, in this post and in Zlax's posts on the book trade's use of human skin at Anthropodermic bibliopegy.

We also need to consider tanning processes.

Why is an urn shown in the picture below?

_
The Four Rivers of Paradise, Rubens. Repurposed tanner's advert. __Source_​
You see another fake out of Antwerp. I see a tanner's advert re-purposed as high art. Its original marketing message was something like:


> Our tanning promise guarantees you'll never feel under-dressed again!
> 
> Our patented urine-process tans:​
> Thickest crocodile skin into tough, flexible work-wear.​
> ...



From:  Urine Tanned Salmon Leather


> Why urine? When our bodies and the bodies of all mammals break down amino acids as a part of normal metabolism, we produce ammonia... an amazing basic solvent that can break down fats and oils, clean surfaces and stop decay
> ...
> You should have enough liquid to stir the skin and have it float freely.
> ...
> This solution in the tanning world is also called a pickle



Yep, where it isn't fake, a lot of 'classical' art is just re-purposed advertising. That's why it comes with unbelievable storage and discovery stories. That's why its content often promotes run-of-the-mill activities such as:

Club 18-30-style holidays, complete with horn vuvuzela. See the video in this post, or at least consider its initial image:


_Roman Club 18-30 advert. __Source_​
About Club 18-30 holidays:​


> an advertising campaign promoted attractions of people who were sexually active and could enjoy themselves in uninhibited, alcohol-fuelled ways​



Or it features meat and veg. From item 9 at Cannibalism in humans, Great Apes, Prion diseases, and mRNA therapy:



Although, to be fair, this last one could be promoting leather tints made from natural plant dyes.

Once we reject ill-fitting theories and stick rigorously to theories that match the evidence and the logic of the situation, we find cut marks are better explained as evidence of flensing (fat-removal) and de-skinning. Flensing and de-skinning leave fewer knife traces than de-fleshing, satisfying Mays' observation that the Hambledon baby bones were not a straightforward case of baby-meat butchery.

Once we adopt this different model of events, we can investigate other details to see if they fit. In this scenario, the odd choice of limb and the (seemingly) oddly-located scratch marks immediately make sense. They are positioned far enough along the femur to tell us that enough skin was left to seal it with a knot, as demonstrated here:


_"Nice bag!" "Thanks - tanned it myself. In its own urine!" Source: long forgotten_​
Or, more likely, to tack a hem to strengthen the opening and even take elastic. Because, as archaeologists are told - if they would only pay attention - it is highly likely the semi-translucence and natural elasticity of infant hide made it a steady seller in the high-end lingerie market:





Your browser is not able to display this video.



_Many a true word spoken in jest. Source: Not Only... but Also (BBC2 1965)

Edited for readability and reduced yuck factor._


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## usselo (Sep 6, 2021)

Russian Youtube channel "Pi's Story" weaves together this and the cannibalism thread's evidence that European and English elites used humans as food, medicine and material resources. He's added some interesting bits from elsewhere:


_The Farm: The Unpleasant History of Mankind_​
For example, another example of a horned lady:




Your browser is not able to display this video.



_Image is unsourced. Modern impression of a medieval building site or genuine?_

Compare and contrast with this image from The Nephilim Looked Like Clowns (conspiracy-r-us)



Options:

High fashion?
Medieval equivalent of the hard hat? (a medieval must-have for ladies visiting building sites)
Thinly-veiled horns?
Or simply fashionable copying of the elites of that time?
Makes me wonder if big-skirted gowns came in because some of those girls had furry haunches to hide.

Auto-translated English subtitle file attached to this post. And here as text:


Spoiler: Subtitles for YT video sPvnBsTHmkI



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The question is not whether it is worth eating

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human meat, but what kind of meat

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you should eat. Today we will discuss the very

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delicate issue of our existence. The very

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issue due to which we may not be being

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told the true history of

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mankind. We will talk about the meat

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diet of

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our ancestors. Not those distant

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Neanderthals  and Cro-Magnons about whom

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historians know hardly anything. Instead, let's talk about

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people who lived in a time period much closer to us.

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What is strange is that archaeologists find

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quite a few ancient cemeteries in our country (Russia),

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Two large periods of these are the period of the

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Scythians, of the Sarmatians, in which people were interred

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in mounds.

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It is not known when this period began, but

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it most likely ended in the 14th century.

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And so until the 14th century people with elongated and

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ordinary skulls were buried in mounds.

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(then attacked?)? There is a period of the Middle Ages and the

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for some reason, the tradition of burying people in cemeteries and in

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in cemeteries and mounds disappears.

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Of course, massive accumulations of bones are

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found on the territory of Europe, but

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usually they are found during construction

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work. And these places have not been previously recorded

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as a cemetery. Also found in

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Europe are seemingly

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ennobled funeral sites, but

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these collections of bones are very difficult to call

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cemeteries. This could be called a warehouse of

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well-boiled and cleaned bones.

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Here is an example, the Chapel of Bones at Evora, Portugal.

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It is said to be decorated with bones of more than

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five thousand people.

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According to the historical version, there is

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nothing unusual to this story.

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In 16th century Evora,

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there were 43 cemeteries that

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occupied valuable land and, so that

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these lands could used profitably, the monks

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dug up all the bones in the cemeteries and decorated

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the church with the bones. Just the usual history

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of the Middle Ages.

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There are a lot of such churches in Europe,

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and the largest collection of bones

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is the Parisian catacombs.

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In them, are the remains of several

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million people. As if it were nothing

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unusual, people gathered bones in the

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catacombs. In this story, it was just

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more convenient for them. Land was expensive...

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Why spend on a cemetery?

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Only one thing surprises, and that is the appearance of the

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bones themselves. There is a feeling that these bones,

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if not boiled, had passed through

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a stage of very thorough cleaning. Now let's

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move on to the shores of the Mediterranean Sea

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and consider other rather unusual

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structures. The so-called public

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toilets of ancient Rome. In ancient Rome,

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you understand, there were no

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buildings as such that

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historians have dubbed public

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toilets. And these structures are

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not only found in large cities; they are

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found even in villages of only

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two streets. So according to historians, the

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mythical ancient Romans loved to

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spend time in public

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toilets. Representatives of the middle class used to use such toilets,

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because

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historians know that the entrance to a public

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toilet was paid and poor people... they simply

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did not have the means to take advantage of the

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benefits of civilization. What was

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there to pay for? Firstly, in

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these rooms the Romans

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conducted small talk, read poems,

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discussed the latest political news,

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made business appointments. Clean, running water

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ran in the gutters built into

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the floor because toilet paper

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had not yet been invented. Then the Romans wiped themselves with

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reusable sea sponges

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fixed on a stick. After being used

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these were washed in running water

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in the channels under their feet. Therefore, the shape of the

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glasses is such a strange hole, not only

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from above but also between the legs, this is done

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just so that a person does not get up, I

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could use a sponge  remove the extra ones on a stick,

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since sitting on a stone

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was quite uncomfortable; there were

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specially trained slaves

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who warmed

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marble benches with their heels while waiting for clients.

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Judging by the descriptions of historians, it was

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just some kind of communal paradise club of

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true gentlemen who were

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happy to discuss in such places.

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political and city news and even

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read new poems. Everything here was for the

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convenience of wealthy patricians and

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reusable sponges and special slaves

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to warm the seats and even pleasantly

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bubbling water underfoot. Just an

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idyllic picture confuses me true a

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few tiny moments. In the first place,

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how do historians know about the real

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purpose of these  premises?

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After all, the first toilet room was discovered by the

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Italian archaeologist Giacomo Bani

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only in 1913, in his report, he

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suggested that the leaky bench could

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be part of a complex mechanism

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designed to supply water to the

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upper rooms of the palace and this is a very

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important fact, which means that until 1913

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no one knew anything at all  about the purpose of

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such premises. Today though, historians

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talk about these places in great

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detail. Entrance fees, intimate

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conversations of patricians on the feat of how to

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use a reusable sponge. I

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wonder where the historian knows this all from. The

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second interesting point is the

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material from which it is made.  Lena from

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the restroom bench, According to historians, people

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sat on a stone for hours discussing

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political news. It seems that everything would be

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fine - in summer in Rome and other cities of the

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Mediterranean Sea it is

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hot and it would be very comfortable to sit on a pebble of shade.

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But after all, Rome not only has hot summers...

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it is also quite cool in winter, when the

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temperature can drop to three

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degrees. Now imagine patricians come

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to a public toilet in winter,

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sit down on a chilly marble

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bench and start a leisurely conversation about

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politics and sports.

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If a man older than 40 sits at least

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several times on cold stones, then

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he inevitably develops a rather

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painful inflammation called

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prostatitis So there is nothing

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surprising in the fact that ancient Rome

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disappeared. Ancient rome ruined public

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toilets with prostatitis and reusable sponges. Of

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course you can argue here because

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historians have told us about specially

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trained slaves who warmed up the

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marble seat in anticipation of a client.

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It’s just that I don’t...  I can't imagine how a

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person can warm up a marble slab weighing

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several hundred kilograms with his bum.

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Three. An interesting

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aspect... public toilets

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were located not only in big

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cities but also in small villages of

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several hundred people. If, in big

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cities, a lot of people gathered in

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a club of interests,

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then who  went to these places in villages?

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Villages where mainly slaves and hired workers lived,

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and the middle class was represented by a

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dozen people who had

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their own villas with all amenities.

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And this is what I am leading to -  historians do not know the exact

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purpose of these premises. They do not know

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who, when, and why they were built. An interesting

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version I found here in this blog. There's a

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link in the description. In his opinion, these

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places were used as to slaughter. A

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man was placed on his knees, lowered

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his head into the hole.

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A sword-swipe and the blood flowed down

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special grooves, sponges on sticks

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collected the remnants of

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the blood bath.

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This version is, of course, controversial but you yourself

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read it

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there presented  very specific

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pictures from this version are also consistent,

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but this fresco, according to historians, the

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Roman goddess fortune protected the

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toilet visitors from danger. The

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big sword confuses me and the strange cup in

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her hands hints at her

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that. Now let's go back to the

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Middle Ages and let's see how society as a

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whole treated human remains.

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This issue is well dealt with in the book

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nabla "Medicinal Cannibalism in

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English literature and culture of modern

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times,

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as well as the book by Richard Saga is before

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the university of rome england

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called mummies cannibals and vampires

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History of Cadaveric Medicine from the

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Renaissance to the

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Victorian Era. These books

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tell that for several hundred

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years, reaching its peak in the 16-17th Centuries,

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many Europeans, including members of the

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royal family, priests and scientists,

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took medicines containing

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human bones, blood and fat

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as a medicine for everything from

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major pains to epilepsy. Mummy for

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medicines were recovered from Egyptian tombs.

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Skulls from Irish burials...

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Egyptian mummies were finely crushed and

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added to a tincture

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for internal bleeding. Thomas came out -

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a 17th century brain science pioneer - mixed a

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powdered human skull and

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chocolate and thus received a

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cure for apoplexy and bleeding.

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King of England Charles II took

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his drops. A personal tincture

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containing a human skull in alcohol

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was considered a very valuable powder of moss,

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which simply on human turtles

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was believed to heal

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nosebleeds and possibly epilepsy.

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The moss could begin to

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sprout

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on the skull under certain conditions. Most often

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this happened when the body was not

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buried. Second, a person must have

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died a violent death and

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Ireland in the 17th century was a

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country strewn with heaps of dead bodies.

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One summer the father of chemistry Robert Boyle

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suffered badly from nosebleeds.

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During a particularly tough incident the

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great man decided to use the

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skull moss that was sent to

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his sister by a great man as a

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gift from Ireland. The usual method

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was to inject the snuff usually

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in powder directly into the nostrils.

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But Boyle discovered that he could completely

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stop bleeding simply by holding a skull

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in his hand.

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In 1694 Pierre Pomet, chief pharmacist to

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Louis the Fourteenth, commented on

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how English pharmacists, especially

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London ones, sell the head or skulls of the

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dead on which there is a small

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greenish mould. England received such

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skulls from Ireland. Pomet also described

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English imports moss

274
00:11:39,810 --> 00:11:42,750
covered skulls from foreign

275
00:11:42,750 --> 00:11:44,910
countries, especially in Germany, where they were

276
00:11:44,910 --> 00:11:47,400
used as an ointment for wounds and

277
00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:50,490
also to stop bleeding bruises.

278
00:11:50,490 --> 00:11:52,620
He says English pharmacists

279
00:11:52,620 --> 00:11:55,620
usually bring these heads from Ireland,

280
00:11:55,620 --> 00:11:58,470
this country has been wonderful for them since the

281
00:11:58,470 --> 00:12:00,300
days of Irish life.

282
00:12:00,300 --> 00:12:02,880
Skulls drenched in moss were of high

283
00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,610
value in the time of Charles II. One

284
00:12:05,610 --> 00:12:06,060
skull

285
00:12:06,060 --> 00:12:08,940
could cost 11 shillings. During the

286
00:12:08,940 --> 00:12:11,700
reign of George I, skulls became an

287
00:12:11,700 --> 00:12:14,310
international export item.

288
00:12:14,310 --> 00:12:16,790
They were even specially designated in the list of

289
00:12:16,790 --> 00:12:21,089
customs duties. In 1725, the duty on

290
00:12:21,089 --> 00:12:23,670
one skull was one shilling.

291
00:12:23,670 --> 00:12:26,220
Human fat was used as an

292
00:12:26,220 --> 00:12:28,680
external ointment. Rubbing fat into the skin

293
00:12:28,680 --> 00:12:31,080
was considered an effective remedy for

294
00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:31,800
gout.

295
00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:33,930
German Swiss doctor Paracelsus

296
00:12:33,930 --> 00:12:36,270
believed that human blood

297
00:12:36,270 --> 00:12:39,570
was good for drinking. Poor people who could

298
00:12:39,570 --> 00:12:40,350
not buy

299
00:12:40,350 --> 00:12:42,900
processed blood in pharmacies came

300
00:12:42,900 --> 00:12:45,570
to public executions and collected

301
00:12:45,570 --> 00:12:48,510
blood with handkerchiefs. Fat also. In German countries the

302
00:12:48,510 --> 00:12:51,240
executioner was considered a great healer and from

303
00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:53,610
him for a small amount you could

304
00:12:53,610 --> 00:12:56,460
buy a bowl of blood. Powders made from mummies

305
00:12:56,460 --> 00:12:58,410
were sold in German pharmacies

306
00:12:58,410 --> 00:13:02,940
until the beginning of the 20th century. In Germany,

307
00:13:02,940 --> 00:13:05,010
in 1908, the last

308
00:13:05,010 --> 00:13:08,190
known attempt to swallow blood on the

309
00:13:08,190 --> 00:13:11,610
scaffold was made. As you can see, until the beginning of the 20th

310
00:13:11,610 --> 00:13:14,610
century, Europe was very loyal.

311
00:13:14,610 --> 00:13:17,220
The consumption of medicines prepared from

312
00:13:17,220 --> 00:13:19,770
humans seems to be nothing

313
00:13:19,770 --> 00:13:22,260
unusual. Even today some

314
00:13:22,260 --> 00:13:24,440
medicines are made from the same

315
00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:27,030
ingredients, so it is. But medicines

316
00:13:27,030 --> 00:13:30,000
are only the top of the pyramid.

317
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,550
Look at this engraving here...

318
00:13:32,550 --> 00:13:35,850
Europeans exchange meat for indigenous

319
00:13:35,850 --> 00:13:38,760
jewelry. What kind of meat is I think

320
00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:41,190
unnecessary to explain and what is important to emphasize

321
00:13:41,190 --> 00:13:44,400
is that a European acts as the shopowner.

322
00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:47,310
This is just a piece of the engraving. The complete

323
00:13:47,310 --> 00:13:49,410
engraving can be viewed at the link in the

324
00:13:49,410 --> 00:13:52,170
description. All the details are there

325
00:13:52,170 --> 00:13:54,690
so that the people of the Middle Ages very freely

326
00:13:54,690 --> 00:13:57,329
handled the human body... Could

327
00:13:57,329 --> 00:13:59,180
use it as a basis for the

328
00:13:59,180 --> 00:14:02,070
preparation of medicines. And were

329
00:14:02,070 --> 00:14:04,920
not embarrassed to use it as meat.

330
00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:07,380
Now we will digress a little from

331
00:14:07,380 --> 00:14:09,959
their gloomy stories and look at

332
00:14:09,959 --> 00:14:12,240
such a beautiful thing as English

333
00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:13,560
bone china.

334
00:14:13,560 --> 00:14:16,440
This is an elegant product and the words "bone china"

335
00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:17,370


336
00:14:17,370 --> 00:14:20,399
do not mean more durable or

337
00:14:20,399 --> 00:14:21,750
anything else. Simple

338
00:14:21,750 --> 00:14:24,959
bone china is a mixture of bone meal with

339
00:14:24,959 --> 00:14:26,699
ceramic material.  The

340
00:14:26,699 --> 00:14:29,610
bone meal gives the porcelain a warm

341
00:14:29,610 --> 00:14:32,310
soft color and transparency. Bone meal

342
00:14:32,310 --> 00:14:35,089
can be up to 45 percent of the

343
00:14:35,089 --> 00:14:37,740
product. They say that they used to

344
00:14:37,740 --> 00:14:39,690
use the bones of cows,

345
00:14:39,690 --> 00:14:42,089
but that's strange, as I said

346
00:14:42,089 --> 00:14:44,730
before, many churches in England are very similar

347
00:14:44,730 --> 00:14:47,519
to a crematorium. We do not have medieval cemeteries,

348
00:14:47,519 --> 00:14:48,029


349
00:14:48,029 --> 00:14:51,329
but we have a structure that is similar to crematorium.

350
00:14:51,329 --> 00:14:54,329
So very often churches are built according to a

351
00:14:54,329 --> 00:14:56,880
very simple scheme. There is an altar part...

352
00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,490
adjacent to it a refectory man of a

353
00:14:59,490 --> 00:15:02,370
refectory adjoins a bell tower with something

354
00:15:02,370 --> 00:15:04,949
similar to a chimney. I was always confused by the

355
00:15:04,949 --> 00:15:07,860
names of such a large room as a

356
00:15:07,860 --> 00:15:11,010
refectory. From the refectory immediately the exit of the

357
00:15:11,010 --> 00:15:14,850
bell tower looks like a stove and so and

358
00:15:14,850 --> 00:15:18,120
if the bodies were burned in a furnace, after all, bones are

359
00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:21,540
very difficult to burn without a residue and

360
00:15:21,540 --> 00:15:25,019
therefore this scheme lacks four rooms for

361
00:15:25,019 --> 00:15:28,410
processing. And which place is still

362
00:15:28,410 --> 00:15:30,180
notorious in the

363
00:15:30,180 --> 00:15:33,209
villages? Correct, the mill.

364
00:15:33,209 --> 00:15:35,850
It is the mill in fairy tales which is often

365
00:15:35,850 --> 00:15:38,279
associated with evil spirits.

366
00:15:38,279 --> 00:15:41,010
Although this is illogical; on the contrary, the mill

367
00:15:41,010 --> 00:15:43,949
should symbolize holidays, the nickname of the harvest and

368
00:15:43,949 --> 00:15:46,829
satiety, but no, they often say about the mill

369
00:15:46,829 --> 00:15:50,279
that this is a damned place and that is what is

370
00:15:50,279 --> 00:15:52,980
interesting. In Great Britain, at the beginning of the 19th

371
00:15:52,980 --> 00:15:55,709
century, there was a specialized

372
00:15:55,709 --> 00:15:58,319
bone mill located in the

373
00:15:58,319 --> 00:16:01,560
village of Narborough. There

374
00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:02,570
was more than one of these mills.


375
00:16:02,570 --> 00:16:06,620
In 1820, almost every port on the east

376
00:16:06,620 --> 00:16:07,340
coast

377
00:16:07,340 --> 00:16:09,740
had access to one or several donated by the

378
00:16:09,740 --> 00:16:12,410
abundant mills at the mill in the set they

379
00:16:12,410 --> 00:16:15,020
processed the mouths into fine

380
00:16:15,020 --> 00:16:17,810
crushed bone meal which, as

381
00:16:17,810 --> 00:16:20,840
fertilizer was applied to the fields. They claim they

382
00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:23,210
mainly processed the whalebone.

383
00:16:23,210 --> 00:16:25,390
We read further: the villagers

384
00:16:25,390 --> 00:16:27,620
brought some bones

385
00:16:27,620 --> 00:16:30,680
to grind the bones the same way they did.

386
00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:33,110
From northern Germany ships brought

387
00:16:33,110 --> 00:16:36,260
bones taken from the graves with

388
00:16:36,260 --> 00:16:38,570
static, no one bothered, but they

389
00:16:38,570 --> 00:16:41,270
just said: "one ton of German

390
00:16:41,270 --> 00:16:44,600
bone dust saves the import of 10 tons of

391
00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:46,160
German corn".

392
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:48,890
I'm wondering what was happening on the

393
00:16:48,890 --> 00:16:53,150
territory of Germany in 1820.

394
00:16:53,150 --> 00:16:55,640
There was no German state of its own, so why was

395
00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:57,530
there a huge flow of

396
00:16:57,530 --> 00:17:00,740
bodies from these territories? We will move on to the last

397
00:17:00,740 --> 00:17:02,780
part of our story, let's call it

398
00:17:02,780 --> 00:17:05,780
"underground mystical", we all heard from childhood

399
00:17:05,780 --> 00:17:09,290
about the underground passages that are often

400
00:17:09,290 --> 00:17:12,619
located under church buildings.

401
00:17:12,619 --> 00:17:15,260


402
00:17:15,260 --> 00:17:17,660


403
00:17:17,660 --> 00:17:20,000


404
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,790
Smuggling

405
00:17:22,790 --> 00:17:23,540
merchants

406
00:17:23,540 --> 00:17:26,780
find a lot of ways for moving goods.

407
00:17:26,780 --> 00:17:29,530
But almost no one studies them,

408
00:17:29,530 --> 00:17:32,750
or rather, almost no one. One enthusiast from the

409
00:17:32,750 --> 00:17:35,860
Stolen History forum analyzed

410
00:17:35,860 --> 00:17:39,770
228 legends of tunnels from eastern England.

411
00:17:39,770 --> 00:17:42,230
So 122 tunnels

412
00:17:42,230 --> 00:17:45,590
end in church name places, such as

413
00:17:45,590 --> 00:17:46,670
'abbey'

414
00:17:46,670 --> 00:17:50,030
'cathedral', 'chapel', 'church', 'monastery'.

415
00:17:50,030 --> 00:17:53,000
A lot of tunnels connect

416
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:56,420
seemingly contradictory places. For example, taverns and pubs are

417
00:17:56,420 --> 00:17:58,940
connected with a nunnery or

418
00:17:58,940 --> 00:18:01,970
church; churches also had underground

419
00:18:01,970 --> 00:18:04,970
passages to the local market and it is strange that

420
00:18:04,970 --> 00:18:07,910
these tunnels were almost always

421
00:18:07,910 --> 00:18:10,850
found by chance; there is no mention of their construction.

422
00:18:10,850 --> 00:18:13,730
They are not just in the city but in non-church

423
00:18:13,730 --> 00:18:14,110
choirs,

424
00:18:14,110 --> 00:18:16,420
and it’s as if some people built the tunnels

425
00:18:16,420 --> 00:18:19,030
and built houses and churches over the tunnels

426
00:18:19,030 --> 00:18:21,910
completely different. It's like in the H. G. Wells

427
00:18:21,910 --> 00:18:24,910
novel The Time Machine. On the surface

428
00:18:24,910 --> 00:18:26,549
live happy people who go about

429
00:18:26,549 --> 00:18:28,720
their business and

430
00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:31,840
enjoy the sun but right under the feet of

431
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:34,420
these happy people hid another

432
00:18:34,420 --> 00:18:37,150
eerie world of brick tunnels where

433
00:18:37,150 --> 00:18:37,570

434
00:18:37,570 --> 00:18:41,260
Morlocks live. Morlocks rise at night  from

435
00:18:41,260 --> 00:18:44,170
their brick tunnels and eats

436
00:18:44,170 --> 00:18:47,530
happy Elois. It seems that these are all the

437
00:18:47,530 --> 00:18:50,919
fantasies of crazy science fiction writers, but in Europe the

438
00:18:50,919 --> 00:18:53,410
cult of fairy tales is very common and the

439
00:18:53,410 --> 00:18:54,370
eater of

440
00:18:54,370 --> 00:18:57,549
small children in Bern even has a monument to

441
00:18:57,549 --> 00:19:00,340
one eater. All these

442
00:19:00,340 --> 00:19:03,669
stories seem to hint to us about some kind of power

443
00:19:03,669 --> 00:19:06,640
that uses people as food, but  it's

444
00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:09,730
all mysticism. Let's move on to interesting

445
00:19:09,730 --> 00:19:10,410
facts of the

446
00:19:10,410 --> 00:19:13,270
political history of England and events

447
00:19:13,270 --> 00:19:16,360
that are associated with attacks by peasants

448
00:19:16,360 --> 00:19:18,940
on churches and, more interestingly, on the

449
00:19:18,940 --> 00:19:22,480
meat market (like Smithfields). In England,

450
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:23,890
skewers

451
00:19:23,890 --> 00:19:26,500
for long pigs are often found in kitchensi. English

452
00:19:26,500 --> 00:19:27,520
nouns

453
00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:29,669
for various religious structures are

454
00:19:29,669 --> 00:19:32,230
surprisingly similar to English nouns

455
00:19:32,230 --> 00:19:33,520
that

456
00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:36,520
are associated with the meat trade and meat

457
00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,520
processing. In England there were many

458
00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,160
pubs called the Jolly Friar.

459
00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:44,770
In many underground tunnels of England

460
00:19:44,770 --> 00:19:46,840
hooks for meat hang from

461
00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:49,570
the walls. Special cups for human fat have been preserved.

462
00:19:49,570 --> 00:19:52,240


463
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,940


464
00:19:54,940 --> 00:19:56,620


465
00:19:56,620 --> 00:19:59,049


466
00:19:59,049 --> 00:20:01,210
;

467
00:20:01,210 --> 00:20:04,210
Stamford, where 40 nuns live, they

468
00:20:04,210 --> 00:20:07,600
discovered vaulted rooms three

469
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:08,080
meters high.

470
00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,870


471
00:20:10,870 --> 00:20:13,600


472
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,630


473
00:20:16,630 --> 00:20:18,910


474
00:20:18,910 --> 00:20:22,300


475
00:20:22,300 --> 00:20:24,580


476
00:20:24,580 --> 00:20:27,670


477
00:20:27,670 --> 00:20:30,820
For some reason, at the site of

478
00:20:30,820 --> 00:20:33,880
convents and orphanages, they still

479
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,220
find mass graves of children and

480
00:20:36,220 --> 00:20:38,560
babies. In Ireland at the site of the excavation of

481
00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:41,530
the former home of mothers and children in

482
00:20:41,530 --> 00:20:44,500
County Galway.

483
00:20:44,500 --> 00:20:46,150


484
00:20:46,150 --> 00:20:49,390
divided into 20 chambers containing a

485
00:20:49,390 --> 00:20:51,580
significant number of human

486
00:20:51,580 --> 00:20:55,060
remains, a total of 800 people

487
00:20:55,060 --> 00:20:59,200
aged 35 weeks to three years. This

488
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,690
orphanage was ran by a Catholic order of

489
00:21:01,690 --> 00:21:02,260
nuns.

490
00:21:02,260 --> 00:21:06,210
Also in Lincoln, England, the clergy

491
00:21:06,210 --> 00:21:09,880
collected the blood of infants and

492
00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,310
young children until 1535 to treat

493
00:21:12,310 --> 00:21:14,410
diseases such as leprosy.

494
00:21:14,410 --> 00:21:16,750
All this speaks of some strange

495
00:21:16,750 --> 00:21:20,170
connection between English churches and monasteries with

496
00:21:20,170 --> 00:21:21,370
local markets,

497
00:21:21,370 --> 00:21:24,640
then faithful and hospitals for the treatment of

498
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:28,840
lepers of mankind. Already before the 14th century,

499
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:31,950
according to official history, mankind experienced a network of

500
00:21:31,950 --> 00:21:34,690
catastrophic events as a result of

501
00:21:34,690 --> 00:21:38,920
which the great famine of 1315 arose,

502
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:41,890
and after this famine appeared a

503
00:21:41,890 --> 00:21:44,770
huge number  Catholic churches

504
00:21:44,770 --> 00:21:45,700
with a refectory.

505
00:21:45,700 --> 00:21:48,160
Women's monasteries appeared where

506
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,740
they brought up small children

507
00:21:50,740 --> 00:21:53,730
and, by a strange coincidence, the

508
00:21:53,730 --> 00:21:56,860
churches and monasteries of England were very often

509
00:21:56,860 --> 00:21:59,740
connected by underground passages with local

510
00:21:59,740 --> 00:22:02,230
markets. Of course, this could be just a

511
00:22:02,230 --> 00:22:05,110
coincidence, but by a strange

512
00:22:05,110 --> 00:22:08,230
coincidence  at the beginning of the 19th century, when the

513
00:22:08,230 --> 00:22:11,080
world economy recovered and in

514
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,720
almost all countries the food problem was solved,

515
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,330
in England,

516
00:22:16,330 --> 00:22:18,720
a lot of small workers appeared at all enterprises.

517
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,490
That is, teenagers,

518
00:22:21,490 --> 00:22:24,220
adolescents, worked in all areas

519
00:22:24,220 --> 00:22:27,520
from cotton mills to coal mines. At the

520
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,460
end of the 19th century, a concept arose in the USA

521
00:22:30,460 --> 00:22:32,610
such that orphan

522
00:22:32,610 --> 00:22:35,100
trains carried teenagers around the American continent by trains

523
00:22:35,100 --> 00:22:36,990


524
00:22:36,990 --> 00:22:40,440
and gave them to everyone. It was

525
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,290
not the adoption of teenagers; they were delivered

526
00:22:43,290 --> 00:22:46,170
as free labor. And the

527
00:22:46,170 --> 00:22:48,420
conclusion is: that the system

528
00:22:48,420 --> 00:22:52,309
that used children as a product

529
00:22:52,309 --> 00:22:56,670
outlived its usefulness in the 18th century, but there

530
00:22:56,670 --> 00:22:59,700
were a lot of children in monasteries in order to somehow

531
00:22:59,700 --> 00:23:02,450
use them, they began to be given up for

532
00:23:02,450 --> 00:23:04,240
production.

533
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,090
This is, of course, a very controversial theory, but all the

534
00:23:07,090 --> 00:23:09,610
facts say that the history of the Middle

535
00:23:09,610 --> 00:23:10,480
Ages

536
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,960
does not look as beautiful as it is painted in

537
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:17,770
romantic engravings. There was a hunger, eating

538
00:23:17,770 --> 00:23:20,470
...

539
00:23:20,470 --> 00:23:21,610
parchment medicines of their own kind

540
00:23:21,610 --> 00:23:24,460
from human bodies and even great

541
00:23:24,460 --> 00:23:27,250
campaigns  armies of many thousands are no longer

542
00:23:27,250 --> 00:23:29,830
surprising because the main question is what the

543
00:23:29,830 --> 00:23:33,280
army feeds on in a campaign that lasts for

544
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,660
years, this is what it feeds on the

545
00:23:36,660 --> 00:23:39,010
history of mankind of the Middle Ages

546
00:23:39,010 --> 00:23:42,430
can convey this symbol.

547
00:23:42,430 --> 00:23:45,559
[music]

548
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:57,510
on this all see my channel



If any Russian-speakers want to fill in the small gaps in the .srt file, that would be helpful.

The video is briefly discussed at: Ферма. Неприятня история человечества. (Russian), (Google English translation). Pi's Story has other Russian-language alt history videos at: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-EPqVgGmilMJtqKa3kzZNg (Russian), (Google English translation).

Pi's Story helpfully provided YT viewers with a link to Stolen History's version of this material. They should update the link in their YT notes to this index post. Then their readers could more easily navigate through the two Stolen History threads.

I think he did a better job of wrapping it all up than I have. We could take step back and look at the big picture: our situation. Starting with ourselves and the implications of Eugene McCarthy's claims about the origins of human DNA.

In the Westworld clip at the bottom of this post, two guests discuss the Westworld park. They know they are in a pleasure garden and they plan what they could do. They talk about host Freddy sitting outside the door:




Your browser is not able to display this video.



_"We can use him for target practice." Source: Westworld S01, Ep01_

Freddy can probably hear them. Their conversation should tip him off there is something wrong with his understanding of 'his' world. But if he does think about what they are saying, he doesn't react. He wouldn't hurt a fly.

By the way, the mirror in that clip is being used for a film-maker's trick. It comments about the nature of the viewer. You see mirrors used this way in various films, especially Kubrick's. Also in _What Lies Beneath_ and two minutes into _V for Vendetta_.

In the clip below, another host - Dolores Abernathy - is tipped off that something is wrong with her understanding of 'her' world:




Your browser is not able to display this video.



_Out of the mouths of babes... Source: Westworld S01, Ep01_

An hour or two later, her father Peter Abernathy is also tipped off:




Your browser is not able to display this video.



_Peter Abernathy finds a colour photograph of modern New York. Source Westworld S01, Ep01_

Later, Peter and Dolores discuss their day. He shows her the photograph:




Your browser is not able to display this video.



_It doesn't look like anything to me." Source: Westworld, S01, Ep01_

For Peter, Revelation has begun. For Dolores, Revelation loses this round to her loyalty loop. For Teddy, it's as if nothing has happened.

Same for each of us. Are you thinking about the implications? Or are you one of the guests here?


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## huskofahuman (Sep 6, 2021)

The European Elite, really aren't European Elite.


usselo said:


> Russian Youtube channel "Pi's Story" weaves together this and the cannibalism thread's evidence that European and English elites used humans as food, medicine and material resources. Plus some interesting bits from elsewhere:
> 
> 
> _The Farm: The Unpleasant History of Mankind_​
> ...



I posted these videos here once long ago, since they are probably lost, I will post them again.  We are indeed food for the elite, of every country.


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H73zcTb_-Q_



_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mILA45Ot7eE_



_View: https://www.bitchute.com/video/eIKsq0gPqAjK/_



_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6tG-5OlUgA_


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## usselo (Sep 8, 2021)

huskofahuman said:


> The European Elite, really aren't European Elite.


There's some really interesting clips in there. These two stood out for me:




Your browser is not able to display this video.



_Dale wakes up amid banqueting room portraits. Source: __Tales from the Crypt. Mournin' Mess_





Your browser is not able to display this video.



_Bill learns he's from the wrong class. Source: __Society, 1989_

I see a Simpsons episode and clips from Midnight on the Meat Train. I'd like to know where the other clips came from, particularly the boy testing a dimensional doorway.


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## huskofahuman (Sep 9, 2021)

usselo said:


> There's some really interesting clips in there. These two stood out for me:
> View attachment 12592
> _Dale wakes up amid banqueting room portraits. Source: __Tales from the Crypt. Mournin' Mess_
> 
> ...


I think the dimensional doorway came froma  movie I watched a long time ago, called 'Gate'.   They also had something similar in the Phantasm movies if you've ever seen them, the two pillar bar things as usual opening a gate to elsewhere.


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## usselo (Sep 10, 2021)

huskofahuman said:


> I think the dimensional doorway came froma  movie I watched a long time ago, called 'Gate'.   They also had something similar in the Phantasm movies if you've ever seen them, the two pillar bar things as usual opening a gate to elsewhere.


Dropping a credit and a link here to EAFU's earlier thread about _Society_ and the excellent posts in that thread.

I found _The Gate, 1987_, but that seems to be a different film from whatever this clip was taken from:




Your browser is not able to display this video.




British TV occasionally puts the idea of small dimensional doorways in front of children. Eg _Timeslip, 1970_:





Your browser is not able to display this video.



_Source_

And recently in the TV series _His Dark Materials, 2019_. Probably others. And then there are the big budget Stargate type doorways...

We could go into why our mind-managers drop hints - seemingly expensively produced film hints - but that's a different post. Instead, do they tell us about something real?

The thread about the mystery of windroses and rhumb-lines on old maps could give us a clue. So might pro-vladimir's series of articles: 'Transport Systems of the Past'. The auto-translation from Russian, the exploratory style, and the now-missing images are hard going but if you are interested in evidence of dimensional doorways in the past, read them while there is something left.

Elites eating amid portraits crop up in Rev. George Oliver's A History of the Holy Trinity Guild Church at Sleaford, an 1846 history of the high heath between Lincoln and Sleaford. It seemed important to Oliver to detail how Sir Francis "Hellfire Club" Dashwood's successor Sir John King Dashwood added a large room to Dunston Pillar pleasure gardens (Google Maps), (Google Streetview) to "accommodate" its customers. (page 11)

And that Thomas Chaplin built the Green Man Inn banqueting room (Google Maps), (Google Streetview) just down the road. Lining it with plaster portraits of the elite customers who ate and drank (apparently heavily) there. And how some busts had been removed and others defaced. (page 13)

And - significantly - Oliver tells us that Temple Bruer's preceptor ate, drank and lived among the feudal predecessors of these entities. Oliver tells us that in addition to the preceptor's three homes, he owned a nearby warrener's house (Google Maps), (Google Streetview) or here (Google Maps), (Google Streetview). This, we're told, had a vault underneath. Oliver tells us that only a willow tree grows there now (1846). But that the locals say it: 'grows from the prior's oven.' (page 33)

This is odd because orthodox history says Temple Bruer's officials were arrested in the Templar dissolution of 1312. And that in 1540 Henry VIII sold the property - by then theoretically just a farm - to Charles Brandon, Duke of Suffolk. How could a Knights Templar preceptor be supping with - and apparently supplying food and services to - 17th century elite?

Unless orthodox history is wrong and the Templars were "dissolved" a lot later than we are told. Like the Romans. In a catastrophe now described as Oliver Cromwell's physical destruction of Temple Bruer in approx 1643.

Also odd is Oliver's pointed reference to the priors' oven beneath the preceptor-owned house. Priors' ovens seem to have been very problematic in earlier times. Although Oliver doesn't explain why, British folklore does. It says ecclesiasts bought children for slaughter and baked their blood into special celebratory bread. That's what is being referred to in from minute 9:07 in huskofahuman's second YT video.

What Oliver does say is that many stone crosses in the area had been reduced to stumps - "stump crosses":


> when the injunction of Bishop Horne was promulgated at his visitation in 1571 ; that "all Images of the Trinity in glass windows or other places of the church be put out and extinguished, together with *the Stone Cross in the church-yards*."



Why would a Bishop order the destruction of stone crosses, do you think? Oliver doesn't say, but he continues in weirdly excessive detail to describe how the now-damaged crosses were originally built. Oliver is seemingly obsessed with describing the remaining bases of these crosses. He tells us "marketplace" crosses were singled out for the most damage. And that these were usually sited at crossroads between "religious" houses. Describing two crosses south of the Green Man Inn, Oliver says:



> One stood ... on the west side of the turnpike leading to Sleaford, opposite to the Roxham-lane... This was called the Butter Cross, having been formerly used by the vendors of that article in the market. ... The other, called the Bakers' Cross, was situated on a hill where four roads met north of the village.



These two sites are on the main road to:

Temple Bruer (Google Maps), (Google Streetview) - where Oliver found a room filled with pure lime (page 30),  and skeletons of all ages were found burned in a crypt beneath the Knights Templar 'temple' (page 28 or see end of post)
Dunston Pillar "pleasure gardens". (Google Maps), (Google Streetview)
The Green Man Inn dining room.
The above-mentioned house with an unexplained underground vault.
Elsewhere in Chapter I, Oliver switches to Latin to comment on the irony of a destroyed cross whose base has been converted into stocks.

Why?

Oliver is telling readers that the crosses were tethering places for children being sold to the Knights Templars and the elites. It's a cheaper, more manageable method of restraining human livestock during market day inspection and sale than is building a jail at every marketplace.

That is the real reason 10,000 of England's 12,000 market crosses were destroyed by 1650. Shortly after Pompeii was really destroyed.

And we can see why Oliver recorded the locations of the remaining bases of crosses: all of them marked bad memories that required managing.Some of them marked the locations of lockups. Three publicly-known examples still exist, though orthodox historians don't acknowledge their original purpose:

Royston Cave (Google Maps), (Google Streetview), which was found under Roysia's Cross (Google Maps), (Google Streetview) - site of a "butter market".
Fowlmere tunnel and cross war memorial. (Google Maps), (Google Streetview).
Deeping St James lockup and cross (Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (imagery and notes in this post).
Why did some crosses mark the sites of "Butter Markets" and why were they sometimes called "Butter Crosses"?

From huskofahuman's _Society_ clip above:




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_You say 'Lard', I say 'Butter'. Source: __Society: 1989_



> Together with the loss of a furry cover, human skin acquired a hypodermal fatty layer (panniculus adiposus) which is considerably thicker than that found in other primates, or mammals for that matter.


_William Montagna, The Evolution of Human Skin, Journal of Human Evolution, 1985, 14, 14. __Source_



> Humans are among the fattest mammals at birth reflecting a rapid fat deposition during the third trimester of pregnancy. For most mammals, roughly 2-3% of birth weight is fat. A newborn human baby is made up of 16% fat, whereas a new-born chimpanzee averages 3% of birth weight as body fat


_Source_

Perhaps the nutritional and utility value of human babies - partially explored in this post above and in this post - as the result of product design decisions now becomes clearer.

And from Joseph Beldam's 1859 "explanation" of Royston Cave:



> A Butter Market existed in late medieval times at The Cross... *It may even have incorporated a small prison cell as part of a first floor structure*. In 1742, nearly a century after the commissioners had drawn up their survey, workers doing some minor building work in the butter market found a mill stone in the floor. Dropping a line down the central hole seemed to suggest the stone was concealing a very deep hole beneath it and this was confirmed when the stone was dragged away revealing a narrow vertical shaft descending into the chalk.



This 1742 discovery of Royston Cave may well have kicked off frantic sponsorship of Britain's antiquarian movement. Records of their itineraries (Ie, surveying tours), their attraction to ploughmen's finds and their detailing of seemingly trivial aspects of old structures may indeed have reflected an autistic curiousity. But just as likely, it reflected their sponsors' fear that builders would find new "Royston Caves" beneath England's former market crosses. And that ploughboys would keep finding vaults beneath the stones they were clearing out of England's mudflooded fields.

Dunston Pillar "pleasure gardens" is the reason I included (in this post and at the bottom of this post) the Westworld clip where an experienced guest tells a new guest:



> You ride out of town... that's when the real demented shit begins.



It's a reference to "pleasure gardens" like the Nocton Hall/Dunston Pillar complex (Google Maps), (Google Streetview) some ten miles south of Lincoln - where humans were offered on the table and as targets in the neighbouring wood. Denials and inconsistencis in accounts of Sir "Hellfire Club" Francis Dashwood's ownership of this "Hunger Games" complex is a major clue that the history of this location is being covered up.

Lincoln Heath is not the only place where archaeologists have simply avoided trying to explain away oddities. At Knobb's Farm in Cambridgeshire, logic tells us that the bizarrely executed adult slave skeletons were not killed - as archaeologists claim - by "extreme discipline" or "extreme justice". They were killed during weapons training, perhaps for skills development with the weapons involved. How do we know? The victims were killed while held, while kneeling and, apparently while running away. 13 of them lay face down, suggesting they were left where they fell. Many appear to have been cut up:

_Drunk executioners? Or a weapons test? __Source_​
Several were slashed multiple times with precise cuts from a weapon's edge or tip. Try this description of the remains of a woman who was repeatedly slashed, taken from: Extreme Justice, Decapitations and Prone Burials in Three Late-Roman Cemetaries at Knobbs Farm, Cambridgeshire:


> There are no cut marks or associated trauma directly relating to decapitation and no evidence to explain the fragmentation of the jaw. There are, however, numerous other cuts marks on the skeleton ...





> Two cut marks on the right side of the mandible appear to have targeted the temporomandibular ligament which attaches the mandible to the cranium.





> Additionally, the right ear appears to have been partially chopped off with a glancing blow, likely retained by a flap of soft tissue; this is evidenced by two loose, sharp-bordered bone fragments from immediately behind and in front of the ear, as well as a chop mark into the top of the mandible. The profile of the cut marks suggests a sharp, heavy blade directed from above and behind.





> There is a third, fine vertical cut mark, 4.5 mm long, on the lower lingual inside of the mandible, aligned approximately with the left canine.





> Elsewhere on the body, there are: two fine cut marks (c. 1.2 mm long) to the left clavicle, specifically across the long axis of the superior and posterior borders; multiple fine cut marks, 5–40 mm long, angled across the posterior of the left and right humeri, which would have severed the triceps muscle; a total of six cut marks 1–2 mm long to the posterior side of the radii (four to the right, two to the left), which would have cut through the superior part of the extensor muscle group; multiple fine cut marks across the back of the left femur, presumably severing the tendons of the adductor muscle group, although these cuts would probably have missed the major arteries and veins of the leg. That these fine marks were mostly parallel and orientated in the same direction suggests a human cause rather than a natural one. Together with the cut marks on the mandible, they might indicate butchery or de-fleshing. A lack of healing suggests this occurred around the time of death, but it is not possible to distinguish whether they were made immediately before death (resulting from, for example, torture or flaying) or after death (for example, from corpse mutilation, post-mortem punishment or ritual de-fleshing




_Not my idea of 'judicial killing'. __Source_​
It's not clear but if the small arrows in this diagram point to cuts through the bones, then you are looking at three limbs that were apparently sliced up one section after another.

Altogether, they look like the remains of weapons training or a weapons test. The biggest mystery is what the weapon really was.

Elite eating houses also feature in many English urban tunnel legends. Typically these structures are:

The Assembly Rooms
The Guildhall, or
The Corn Exchange
Pubs, taverns, inns and hotels
With these ideas in mind, Wikipedia's page on Assembly Rooms is worth reading carefully. So is the page on Newark-upon-Trent's Ossington Coffee Palace. The Assembly Rooms in Stamford (England) still has large vaults beneath it, extending beneath the former ballroom next door. The vaults are rumoured to have been connected to the town's extensive tunnel network. Why would that connection have been necessary?

The Corn Exchange (Google Maps), (Google Streetview) in Hertford (England) is labelled as former jail (gaol).

_Hertford Corn Exchange. 2m stick, 4m door_​
It's not just the door - it's the visibly large cellars. Its official address as number 42 Fore Street is said to be the centre of Hertford's vast underground tunnel network. See also here. And always pay attention when someone claims absence of official confirmation is proof of non-existence.

Tollbooths - the Scottish version of Guildhalls - frequently contained lockups. Guildhalls and tollbooths were where ordinary folks paid taxes. What form did their taxes take? Their first born? That would certainly require lockable cages.

Rev George Oliver lived, preached and taught in quite a few places around England. He was a mason, a school teacher, a headmaster and a clergyman who set up schools, Sunday Schools, re-established church congregations, and had a substantial hand in writing masonic teachings.

So, Oliver was in the education game but he was *establishing* education in a wider sense, seemingly implementing four 'levels' of knowledge-management:

Ubiquitous basic education: "The Three 'Rs'".
Education for the professional classes (masonry) to propagate management techniques into the future.
'Spiritual' education. Really obedience-building, ie Christianity, rebuilding shattered churches (former meat processing centres) as convenient central structures for training loyalty and obedience.
Clean up of memories and tales of what had gone on before.
In this he was 'sponsored' by the Tennyson family (as in Alfred Lord Tennyson) - who were themselves likely acting in their own interests but on behalf of others. The reason I think this is that we know Oliver was not alone in devising how to attract the (remaining) ordinary population into England's at that time dilapidated churches.

Lincoln Cathedral's management - for one - seem to have been grateful. A large monument of Alfred Lord Tennyson stands in their grounds. Ironically - or perhaps not - it overlooks the excavated remains a few yards away of one of Lincoln's 'Roman' gates - still standing three metres below today's ground level (Google Maps), (Google Streetview).

Did Oliver's sponsors read his surveys of butcher-shop England's embarrassing remains of market crosses? Did they decide to explain away the memories of them with an invented crucifixion story? Perhaps as the core story of their newly-created religion?

Around 1790, the Hon. John Byng wrote up his tours visiting dilapidated churches, stately homes and (allegedly) fake ruins around eastern England. He was part of a group who frequently split up to explore different areas before regrouping. Just like Oliver, Byng was noting local lore, records, legends and remains. And his expenses. But only rarely does he record in his diary what he heard and found. So, on page 99 of his Torrington Diaries, while waiting for his colleagues he notes:



> In the meantime, must write down, or remember, "Each trivial Law, each petty fond [found] Record."



And further down the same page:



> Upon an opposite Hill is a large Farm House, call'd Canon-Park Manor House; which has been of good account.



On page 122 Byng describes a partially rebuilt and only partially used Peterborough Cathedral. On page 139 he again says no-one goes to church anymore and suggests a cheap way for the local rich to rebuild a congregation: encourage the local population's children to sing in churches on Sundays.



> put forth a little Chorus of Children



Mum, Dad and granny were bound to come listen, even join in.

Is Byng revealing that church choirs originated as a marketing gimmick? Is he also revealing that English Christianity is a Pay-As-You-Obey money and obedience mechanism invented by England's post-catastrophe elites? Or is he revealing both?

Telling also, are Byng's visits to east England's stately homes. He describes being shown around buildings and grounds in varying states of disarray. They are more or less empty. He describes big Lincolnshire stately homes Grimesthorpe Castle (Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (Torrington Diaries, page 127) and Belvoir Castle (Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (Torrington Diaries, page 133) as being semi ruinous, with virtually no furniture, no facilities and almost no staff. Belvoir, he says, is stacked with the owner's newly acquired paintings waiting to be hung and little else.



> Here Belvoir-Castle rises to the View, in awful State. In our way we passed by the ruin'd Church of Woolsthorp... We then walk'd up The Hill Belvoir-Castle, where every thing is in neglect, and Ruin, and in such a state it has long been... In this Condition was the House found by the late duke...



30 years later Oliver reported he also found large east England mansions had gone empty. Eg "the fine mansion" of Culverthorpe Hall (Google Maps), (Google Streetview):



> The last male descendant of the Newtons died here in 1803 ; and the house remaining 20 years without a tenant, became the residence of its present occupier, Henry Handley, Esq., M. P.



The Historic England version of this period, per CULVERTHORPE HALL, Culverthorpe and Kelby - 1000974 | Historic England is:



> for much of the time Culverthorpe was let.



These descriptions suggest that:

Before 1790, east England had been largely depopulated, particularly of its previous elite. And:
Today's official sources are not inclined to admit this.
In _Itinerarium Curiosum_, Second Edition, 1776, p29, antiquarian William Stukeley comments about Burgh (Google Maps), (Google Streetview) near the mid-Lincolnshire coast:


> In the yards and gardens about the town they frequently dig up bodies.



On page 31, near Horncastle (Google Maps), (Google Streetview), a bit more than ten miles further inland:


> Near the walls upon digging cellars they sometimes find bodies buried.



Elsewhere, Stukeley writes of finding timber in "Roman" ruins that is still burnable.

Byng mentions his young adult companion who is also travelling by horse but does not know it needs shoes (Torrington Diaries, page 138). That's like a modern 20 year old car owner not knowing that car wheels need tyres. Or what a farrier or smith did for a living. 'Smith' is the most common last name in England. This is bizarre if travel in those times was as horse-centred as we are taught it was.

Byng also refers to his own efforts to teach himself to drive a light horse carriage in a west London street - and breaking its shaft. You would think an adult 'gentleman' would have learned how to drive a carriage in a more formal, dignity-maintaining, private environment. In John Wheale's _London Exhibited 1852_, there are similar accounts of elites learning to drive the novel carriages in London's Hyde Park.

Both Wheale and Byng read as though a new elite had just acquired horses and were learning how to drive them when hitched to carriages. As if carriages were new toys and there was no previous experience to draw upon.

Chronologically, these clues point to a series of events seem to have happened, perhaps centred on the 17th Century (beginning before and developing after the year marked as '1651'). Events that freed their human survivors from being animals farmed by the entities that built these these transport systems, these banqueting rooms and their vaults.

There seems to have been a century or two of human freedom - for the small pool of humans that survived those events - followed by another suppression beginning just prior to the 19th Century. That suppression seems to have revolved around the idea of re-establishing humans as slaves but this time as slaves-who-don't-know-it. Our Pay-As-You-Obey class. The great exhibitions seem to be a review of those remnant technologies that humans had managed to understand. Followed by the commercialisation of some and the hiding away of others.

You could wonder if high tech weapons and dimensional doorways ever featured in some roped-off backroom at one of those great exhibitions.


Excerpt from Rev George Oliver's description of skeletons he found under Temple Bruer:



> Another skeleton of an aged man was found in these dungeons, with only one tooth in his head. His body seems to have been thrown down without order or decency, for he lay doubled up ; and in the fore part of his skull were two holes, which had evidently been produced by violence. In a corner of one of these vaults, many plain indications of burning exists. The wall stones have assumed the colour of brick, and great quantities of cinders mixed with human skulls and bones ; all of which had been submitted to the operation of fire, and   some of them perfectly calcined. This horrible cavern had also been closed up with masonry. Underneath the cloisters, between the church and the tower, many human bones were discovered, which appear to have been thrown together in the utmost confusion, and laying in different strata, some  deep and some very near the surface ; amongst which were the skeleton of a very young child, and the skull of an adult, with a round hole in the     upper part, into which the end of a little finger might be inserted, and which was probably the cause of death. Near these interments was a vast     mass of burnt matter of various descriptions ; and the fire had been so fierce, that the external surface of a massive cylindrical column, which was discovered near, is completely cinerated. Several large square stones were taken up with iron rings attached ; and altogether, the ruins exhibit     woeful symptons of crime and unfair dealing. We can scarcely forbear entertaining the opinion that these are the crumbling remains of unhappy        persons, who had been confined in the dungeons of the preceptory ; for the Templars and their successors were always in feud with their neighbours


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## Gypsum Fantastic (Sep 11, 2021)

usselo said:


> At Knobb's Farm in Cambridgeshire the executed adult slave skeletons were not killed by "extreme discipline" or "extreme justice".


_
"33 per cent_" of them it says


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## huskofahuman (Sep 11, 2021)

usselo said:


> Dropping a credit and a link here to EAFU's earlier thread about _Society_ and the excellent posts in that thread.
> 
> I found _The Gate, 1987_, but that seems to be a different film from whatever this clip was taken from:
> View attachment 12647
> ...


Aye, the first video you posted up there is from Phantasm, you've probably seen one at one time or another.  It has the tall man in it, a Mortician that throws these balls at people that have protruding spikes.  He also has an army of some kind of goblin creatures that help him which look like Jawas.


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## usselo (Sep 19, 2021)

Gypsum Fantastic said:


> _"33 per cent_" of them it says



Yes. It helps remind you that nothing you read - and do not directly see for yourself - should be taken as true.

huskofahuman said:


> Aye, the first video you posted up there is from Phantasm, you've probably seen one at one time or another.  It has the tall man in it, a Mortician that throws these balls at people that have protruding spikes.  He also has an army of some kind of goblin creatures that help him which look like Jawas.



Thanks, found them. I have a post in mind just for clips of media tells. If I could get some clips from films showing North Sea floods (provisionally, years: 1285-1287, 1530-1540, and perhaps 1710-1712), they could all be released as a "English History: The Truth" video.

I'd also include these:





Your browser is not able to display this video.



_Eloi bred like cattle. Source: __The Time Machine, 1960_

For evidence of real-life Eloi, see this post.

'Elloi' was also a place:


_Elloi, Lincolnshire, UK. __Source_​
It still is. Now it's called 'South Holland':



_South Holland, Lincolnshire, UK. __Source_​
South Holland is noted for missing historical documents, an oddly well-funded historical society, a still standing "prior's oven" and Lincolnshire pork sausages.



> South Holland prides itself on its thriving butchers scene


Source

Human bone processor Narborough bone mill is just a few miles away:


_Narborough Bone Mill. __Source_​
A world without adults also shows up in Phillip Pullman's His Dark Materials - in Cittàgazze:


> The city is plagued by ghostly beings called Spectres. Spectres are invisible to pre-adolescents, but once individuals are old enough to see them, the Spectres eat away their dæmons, leaving them zombie-like and lifeless. Hence, the city is entirely devoid of adults, and populated only by small gangs of children. Spectres cluster around children approaching adolescence and consume them as soon as they come of age.


Source

Perhaps that's how it looks when you live on a farm and older stock disappear.





Your browser is not able to display this video.



_Church equipment as cargo cult, Humans as fatted cattle. Source: __The Time Machine, 1960_

For evidence of real life church equipment as cargo cult, see this post and this post. And these.

For another clip showing slaughterhouse ritual disguised as religious ritual, see the clip at the top of this post.





Your browser is not able to display this video.



_Believing church explanations for ossuaries is another cargo cult. Source: __The Time Machine, 1960_

For evidence of real life versions of ossuaries as bone warehouses, see this post, this post, this post, this post, this post, this post. or see various Stolen History posts.


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## feralimal (Sep 19, 2021)

What a thing to conceive - the idea that the Eloi were real!

And once again it is more plausible than it may first appear, given that it is *HG Wells* that is the author of 'the Time Machine'.  HG Wells was plainly a very well connected insider - on his wiki he is referenced as the "Shakespeare of science fiction" no less.  He also wrote numerous books about education, predicted the internet, the start of WW2 (ahead of others), etc, etc.

H. G. Wells - Wikipedia

Re the Time Machine, I find it interesting that Wells projects the Eloi and cannibalist Morlocks into the future.

I also enjoyed reading the wiki page on this book:
The Time Machine - Wikipedia

Here are some quotes from that page's wiki that I especially liked or found relevant to this thread:


> The Time Traveller stops in A.D. 802,701, where he meets the Eloi, a society of small, elegant, *childlike adults*. They live in small communities within large and futuristic yet *slowly deteriorating buildings*, and adhere to a *fruit-based diet*. His efforts to communicate with them are *hampered by their lack of curiosity* or discipline. They appear happy and carefree but fear the dark, and particularly moonless nights.


- at a pinch, are we a bit like this?  Ie hampered by our lack of curiousity, childlike?  (people in general I mean, not those on SH.net)



> Returning to the site where he arrived, the Time Traveller is shocked to find his time machine missing and eventually concludes that it has been dragged by some unknown party into a nearby structure with heavy doors, locked from the inside, which resembles a *Sphinx*. Luckily, he had removed the machine's levers before leaving it (the time machine being unable to travel through time without them). Later in the dark, he is approached menacingly by the *Morlocks*, ape-like *troglodytes who live in darkness underground* and surface only at night. Exploring one of many _"wells" that lead to the Morlocks' dwellings_, he discovers the machinery and industry that makes the above-ground paradise of the Eloi possible. He alters his theory, speculating that the human race has evolved into two species: _the leisured classes have become the ineffectual Eloi, and the downtrodden working classes have become the brutal light-fearing Morlocks._
> 
> Deducing that the Morlocks have taken his time machine, he explores the Morlock tunnels, learning that due to a lack of any other means of sustenance, they feed on the Eloi.  *His revised analysis is that their relationship is not one of lords and servants but of livestock and ranchers.*


- the above (esp the last line) speaks for itself!

There's also an explanation of the names _Eloi_ and _Morlock:_


> The name Eloi is the Hebrew plural for Elohim, or lesser gods, in the Old Testament.
> 
> Wells's source for the name Morlock is less clear. It may refer to the _Canaanite_ god *Moloch* associated with *child sacrifice*. The name Morlock may also be a play on mollocks – what _miners_ might call themselves – or a Scots word for rubbish, or a reference to the Morlacchi community in _Dalmatia_.


- this also fits in with some conspiracy thinking - that there are some that worship Moloch and Baal.


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## JohnNada (Sep 20, 2021)

Recently read about the Jewish ritual of Pidyon Ha-ben. In this particular ritual, the first born son is placed on a silver platter, then their redemption is purchased from the high priest for 5 shekels. I just found it interesting that the child is presented the same way that a roasted goose would be displayed at a feast, and the parents are given the option of keeping the baby or the 5 shekels. In light of the findings on this thread, it's very interesting that the child is already ready to be "served" if the parents choose the shekels.


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## Citezenship (Sep 20, 2021)

JohnNada said:


> Recently read about the Jewish ritual of Pidyon Ha-ben. In this particular ritual, the first born son is placed on a silver platter, then their redemption is purchased from the high priest for 5 shekels. I just found it interesting that the child is presented the same way that a roasted goose would be displayed at a feast, and the parents are given the option of keeping the baby or the 5 shekels. In light of the findings on this thread, it's very interesting that the child is already ready to be "served" if the parents choose the shekels.


I don't know why but on reading that, my mind thinks that it still happens today, although the physical body is not offered anymore, the soul is sold for the price of a certificate, a bond if you will, mostly unknowingly.


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## JohnNada (Sep 20, 2021)

Citezenship said:


> I don't know why but on reading that, my mind thinks that it still happens today, although the physical body is not offered anymore, the soul is sold for the price of a certificate, a bond if you will, mostly unknowingly.


Funny thing is I stumbled on this practice due to this article.


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## Citezenship (Sep 20, 2021)

JohnNada said:


> Funny thing is I stumbled on this practice due to this article.


Oh dear, what good timing, cough, cough.


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## usselo (Sep 23, 2021)

JohnNada said:


> the first born son is placed on a silver platter, then their redemption is purchased from the high priest for 5 shekels. and the parents are given the option of keeping the baby or the 5 shekels. In light of the findings on this thread, it's very interesting that the child is already ready to be "served" if the parents choose the shekels.


Yes, your first-born. They provide seal-pup levels of fat (16% by weight) in a convenient package. Fat is hard to find in nature. And it really matters when a 'Little Ice Age' has just begun.

Babies are also a source of uncontaminated blood. And unblemished skin suitable for processing into vellum. And besides, taxing the first-born selects away the least fertile breeding pairs.

Central American indians claim European pishtaku ('friars', 'merchants' and 'bankers' in our language) originally preyed on them for fat, then meat and blood. And they were Franciscan friars.


_Pishtaku evolution: phase one as shown in Nicario Jiménez's retablo. __Source_​Then they switched to labour (slavery) and ultimately to debt economics (low-pay plus debt/interest). Remarkably, that parallels the 'developed world', where management has intensified wage destruction, debt and hidden price/tax rises through neo-liberal economics. The result is crashed family-creation and reproduction rates below replacement level.

And an obese population dependent on smartphones and the Holy Vaxx.

feralimal said:


> HG Wells was plainly a very well connected insider


See The Great Reset: H.G. Wells' Dystopic Vision Comes Alive or search for 'HG Wells and The Coefficients'.

feralimal said:


> Wells projects the Eloi and cannibalist Morlocks into the future



There are reasons to wonder if Wells took a true story from the past, flipped it into a future event, and published it as _The Time Machine_. The parallels between the history of the Time Machine's Eloi and the history of Lincolnshire's real-life Elloi are very curious.

Take as a starting point Wells' proposition that the Eloi were being farmed - partly via cargo cult religious beliefs - in jungly remains above a city blasted away in a truly destructive, but forgotten war...

Orthodox historians tell us two civil wars were fought across and around England's Elloi. Local mythology adds two more 'supernatural' battles near Elloi. You'd expect the two supernatural battle stories to be weirder than the two 'authorised' stories, right?

Let's have a look.

*The Last English Civil War*

First, let's note the 1715 Jacobite rebellion is usually positioned as a primarily Scottish civil war. But let's keep its 1715 date in mind.

England's most recent civil war is the 1642-1651 'English Civil War'. This is Oliver Cromwell's war.




_Troops surprised as the boss arrives. __Source_

The source page for the above photo has really interesting images. Look at them and ask yourself: how tall were those soldiers? How quickly did weapons and clothing develop after this war?

Cromwell was born in Huntingdon, just south of Elloi, and later lived 20 miles south-east of Elloi in Ely (Google Maps), (Google Streetview).

The English Civil War's armies passed across and around Elloi. But the evidence of brutally destructive fighting was - and still is - very visible on the other side of Elloi. That's in the rest of Lincolnshire to the north-west and on westward into Nottinghamshire and Northamptonshire. Just to avoid offending anyone, yes, the war also raged across the rest of the country.

The countryside around Elloi was littered with ruined churches, abbeys, and monasteries, castles, manors, great halls and stately homes. By 1776 reports of rediscovered ruins were being published. The ruins were covered in vegetation and often partially covered with dirt. Church interiors were sometimes described as being draped with green slime. Probably what we would call 'algae'.

Did they teach you that in school? In Sunday School?

The ruined stately homes had apparently been deserted for some time. By 1776, some were being re-occupied and were gradually restored. After partial restoration, many were subsequently abandoned. Leach and Pacey's multi-volume "Lost Lincolnshire Country Houses" and "Lincolnshire Country Houses and Families" contain photographs of those that survived longest.

Those houses were big. Often castle-like ("crenellated"). In some cases, very 'Roman-like'. The books show this best but there are a few photos online.

When were these buildings ruined? And by what?

In 1776, William Stukeley blamed 'The Flood' and 'The Deluge' for the ruins he surveyed. In _Itinerarium Curiousum_ (1776 edition), Stukeley says bodies are dug up in gardens and yards. Ie, not far down (see above post). Also, there is rubble under the soil and 'Roman' artifacts are being dug up all over the place.

By 1791, John Byng is part of various teams working for a relative of Lincolnshire's 'Bertie family' - Ie the family of Lord Vere Bertie, AKA the Duke of Ancaster (Google Maps), (Google Streetview), a town near Sleaford (Google Maps), (Google Streetview) in Lincolnshire. They are trying to locate the ruins of 'religious' buildings and big halls. By the end of this post, you should be able to guess what they were looking for.

What does Byng find? As reported in his _Torrington Diaries_, he found the same as Stukeley: many fields are full of stone rubble. But Byng also says:

Some churches are being restored,
Others are still ruined and/or covered with vegetation, their interiors sometimes draped with green slime.
Few people go to them.
New owners without a clue have taken over the empty, ruined stately homes.
The ground floor ruins of roofless buildings are sometimes occupied by new families.
The locals can't give directions, not even to local places.
The locals have no idea of their locale's history.
Few of the locals can cook - a criticism still made about the English.
Many look foreign (Spanish in one case, more often Flemish). And Byng himself capitalises as if he were Germanic.
Roman artifacts are still being found and have become so popular that 'Roman' coins are now being forged in Birmingham.
Byng is also disgusted by Sir Francis Dashwood's 1753 Dunston Pillar - England's lone 'land lighthouse' - calling it 'odious' and gently hinting that the stated reason for building it doesn't make sense.

A couple of times, Byng says such and such a big hall or house was burned down 60 years ago (let's call that 1730). When he blames anything, he blames the 'rebellion' or 'the war'. Presumably he means 'the Civil War'. But that was 140 years earlier than Byng's time, not 60 years. (Only a small part of Byng's fenland tours are online. I summarised the above mostly from a print version of his _Torrington Diaries_.)

Half a century later - in 1846 - Rev George Oliver is also being paid. He's helping to set up Sunday schools and today's education system to the north of Elloi. He gushes about the progress of Lincolnshire's rebuilding:

Churches are being rebuilt. Congregations are up.
The land is fertile and being planted with trees. (the fens are still well-known for having few trees.)
He claims the bad old days of barons and manors are gone.
But Oliver also gives a lot of evidence that the land between Lincoln Edge and the Wolds was inundated by around 1730. See attached 'Chapter I' transcript.
Despite evidence of flood, Oliver blames the ruins on Cromwell and the English Civil War.
He's also got a story to tell about Dunston Pillar. From _History of the Holy Trinity Guild at Sleaford_, Chapter I, footnote 18 (transcript attached):


> Shortly after it was erected an itinerant showman appeared at Nocton Hall (also owned by Dunston-owner Dashwood) to exhibit the popular drama of Punch and Judy ; and from the servants' hall the portable theatre was introduced into the drawing room, which at the that time was full of company. The fellow who had been dictated to by some lover of fun in the party, after the usual exhibition, put into Punch's mouth the question, "Who erected that pillar on the heath?" "Sir Francis Dashwood" was the answer. "What was it built for?" "Nobody can tell." How the conversation might have terminated is not known, for the dialogue was suddenly stopped by Sir Francis, who was present, and Punch dismissed.



Summary:

Only Stukeley - the earliest writer - blames 'The Flood' and 'The Deluge'. From Byng onwards - 1791 - the narrative changes to 'The War'. Yet, clearly, all three writers are describing successive stages of recovery from an event that involved:

Some fire and much water - lots and lots of moving water.
Massive destruction and die-off.
Recovery and repopulation, apparently starting around 1730.
Elloi was at ground zero. It is where the water met the sea. Probably on the way in and certainly on the way out. So we should look to see if Elloi also experienced fires. Or storms, earthquakes or other events that would move large volumes of water.

*An Earlier English Civil War*

According to orthodox history, Elloi is the site of one the weirdest stories in English military history. King John losing his treasure in the Wash during the 1216 civil war with the Norman barons. Followed soon after by a new king and the elites all making friends again. Just like they did after the 1642-1651 Civil War 420 years later.

King John's jewellery-laden baggage train is said to have been lost when disaster struck near the marker labelled "King John's Pool" on the map below:

_King John's 'Pool'. Anti-clockwise: Spalding, Former Bicker harbour, Former harbour navigation mark_​
Quoting from https://historicalragbag.com/2020/06/22/king-john-his-treasure-and-the-wash/:


> the land opened in the middle of the water and caused whirlpools which sucked in every thing, as well as men and horses, so that no one escaped to tell the king of the misfortune.”



and


> It is... possible that it was simply the incoming tide and the quagmire of the sands that took out King John’s train, but there has been discussion of an offshore earth quake



Elloi. Scene of earthquakes, floods and lost military equipment jewellery.

Military equipment?

Russian stolen history researchers suspect jewellery is a cargo cult remnant of electronics and radio-frequency devices. See https://178.62.117.238/tag/technology.html. Or for a quick introduction: https://178.62.117.238/links-to-pro-vladimirs-electrical-equipment-of-the-past-articles.html. Or for a really quick introduction, see this spoiler:


Spoiler: Jewellery, regalia as electronics cargo cult




Gems are semiconductors.
Silver and gold are the most malleable and best conductors.
Copper and bronze are important at microwave frequencies.
Early bonze cannons make better waveguides than cannons.
The braid on sword hilts and high-ranking uniforms look like electrical conductors.
Churches, domes and cupolas look like magnetrons and radio-frequency resonators.
Furs and feathers are not used for their triboelectric properties today. But if you look at how Inertial Management Unit chips work, you'll find something similar to 'feathers').




And behind the following spoiler is what was claimed to among King John's lost 'jewellery':


Spoiler: King John's lost treasure: partial list




one wand of gold with a cross, ”to wit a sceptre” ;
a red belt with precious stones which belonged to the ”regalia”
another belt of black skin, padded within (furratum) with red sendal, with precious stones, cut, set in a chase;
another belt of leather padded with red sendal with great stones set in a chase ;
another belt of red leather padded with white leather with great cut stones set in a chase;
another belt of black leather with roses and bars of gold without stones;
a necklace or collar (monile) set in the middle with diamonds surrounded by rubies and emeralds ;
nine great necklaces with many precious stones ;
a crown with precious stones with a cross and seven flowers ;
a royal tunic of red samite with embroideries with precious stones in orles ;
a pair of gloves with stones and another pair with flowers of gold ;
a white tunic of diaper banded with embroidery ;
a ” regale ” of red samite orled and marked all over with the cross in embroidery, with stones ” great, divers and precious,” with two brooches for attaching the said pall ;
a pair of sandals of samite with embroidery;
two pairs of samite shoes;
and eleven pairs of basins weighing 62 marks.




For a more thoroughly researched version of the King John story, try halfway down this page. It says its main source was this PDF. It also makes the excellent - if speculative - point that the King John of this legend may have been the slightly later John O'Gaunt. A very interesting entity, whose dad was rumoured to be a butcher from Ghent in Belgium.

So, apart from the 'jewellery = electronics' part - the above is what is conventional enough to be teachable. Now let's look at the unteachable - the two mythological aerial battles around Elloi.

*A Supernatural Battle North of Elloi*

One is the Byard's Leap battle recounted by Wikipedia and mentioned here, so no need to repeat it in this post. Its relevance is that this 'mythical' battle took place low in the sky over the same Lincolnshire that the last Civil War left in ruins. Variants of this story have the antagonist either as a people-eating witch or as a people-eating, wart-bearing monster. One version puts the event about 25 miles north-west of Elloi between Ancaster and Dunston (in the air above Knights Templar lands at Temple Bruer (Google Maps), (Google Streetview)); the other puts it about 25 miles north of Elloi. We'll just call both versions the same history myth and move on.

*A Supernatural Battle South of Elloi*

The second mythical battle takes place about 40 miles south of Elloi over an enigmatic village called Reach (Google Maps), (Google Streetview) in Cambridgeshire. It involves fire, water, storms, cold, and many fallen trees:


> Long, long, ago, when the area around Reach was a forest, there lived a chief called Hrothgar. He lived at a time when gods and demons were thought to control the earth and one demon in particular was terrifying - the fire demon! To the horror of the chief, it appeared that the fire demon desired his beautiful daughter, Hayenna.





> Hrothgar told his daughter not to worry, as his very good friend, the water god, was the sworn enemy of the fire god. He knew that the water god could communicate between the under and over world and would keep her safe.





> One night Hrothgar had a dream. In his dream, an old man appeared and told him that the fire demon had a new ally in the tempest god. ‘You must prepare for a great battle’, the old man told him. The next day, Hrothgar told all the giants of the forest his plans. First, they cut down all the trees to make a wide clearing. During the next three days, they built a great ditch from the river to Mount Dithon (Wood Ditton), many feet deep and seven miles long.





> The tempest god had watched their work with interest and scorn. Just as they were starting to tire from the hard work, he sent a great storm to blow down the trees on top of them. The storm also brought rain, hail and snow in great quantities. The giants of the forest rounded on Hrothgar, saying he should not have angered the gods and should not have crossed the powerful fire demon. ‘Do not be afraid,’ Hrothgar told them. ‘My good friend, the water god will protect us.’





> At that very moment, the rain ceased. Suddenly, under a great cloud of smoke, a terrifying wall of fire rushed towards the ditch. All but Hrothgar fled. Despite his fear, he came out from shelter and, with his bare hands, dug away the remaining strip of earth, separating the River Cam from the ditch. The water poured into the ditch with a mighty, deafening roar! The fire demon was powerless against this mighty wall of water and the fire died down, the tempest stopped and his daughter was safe. Rejoicing, the local people placed treasured items in the new stream, to thank the water god for his help. The ditch, the Devil's Dyke is still there. The fire demon never troubled the population of Reach again.


I copied this summary from Ancient-Origins, who originally copied - and summarised it - from Christopher Marlowe's _Legends of the Fenland People_. The book is not commonly available so I hope Ancient-Origins will appreciate the plug and bear with me.

*Physical Evidence on the Ground and Underground*

The fallen trees are a big clue. Bog oaks were - and still are - a feature of Elloi.


_Bog oak find, 2012_​Bog oaks are usually huge, branchless, and some are reported to be partially charred. They are not always oak but locals call them 'bog oaks'.

Other than fallen, partially charred, tree trunks, and reports of multiple buildings on fire, do we have evidence of intense heat?

We do. And we also have an overt attempt to cover it up.

George Oliver's excavation of Temple Bruer in 1832-1833 provides two clues to intense heat. They are in the short excerpt at the end of this post above.

Those skeletons were no more calcined by ordinary fire than the bones of a Sunday roast are calcined by a household oven. Similarly, ordinary fire did not begin to glaze the crypt's limestone walls any more than ordinary fire vitrified the stones of Britain's northern hill forts. Even partial metamorphosis of limestone requires much higher temperatures than normal fires.

*Evidence of Cover Up*

We can also see evidence of the early phase of the cover-up. Oliver produced this plan of the partially excavated Temple Bruer:


_Temple Bruer, 1832-1833_​Light grey shows underground rooms and explored tunnels. These are where evidence of intense heat was found. One of the passages was in agreement with rumours of a tunnel to Wellingore. An odd trace that supports that rumour is sometimes visible in a nearby field.

In 1902, William St John Hope re-excavated Temple Bruer and claimed Oliver had imagined things. There were no skeletons and not much crypt, Hope said. Just this:

_Temple Bruer, 1902_​Just a small crypt. No skeletons, no other underground rooms, no tunnel heading north-west towards Wellingore village.

Note: I had to flip one plan 90 degrees to match the other. As a result, north is left, east is up in both plans.

Just for some brain-relief, here's today's version of how Temple Bruer looked. You'll notice there's no reference to underground rooms:




Your browser is not able to display this video.



_Temple Bruer fly-through by Lincolnshire Heritage. __Source_

You have to make your own call. My call on Oliver is that he was dilligent about citations and details, eventually realised evidence was disappearing and did what he could to preserve it.

My call on Hope is that, as part of a career apparently spent pleasing wealthy patrons, Hope produced a paper explaining some odd medieval finds. Describing shallow wooden bowls laced with gold or silver that were often fitted with an inexplicable metal disk at the bottom of the bowl, Hope wrote:



> They are simple drinking vessels... called mazers.



Perhaps the fourteen pairs of 'basins' in King John's lost treasure were also called mazers.

Long before Hope came along to clean up Oliver's findings, Oliver fell out with his sponsors - the Tennyson family. But the cleaners weren't in a rush. Most of the hoi polloi could barely read in 1831, when the fall-out occurred. They were unlikely to find - let alone read - Oliver's description of Temple Bruer being burned.

From _History of the Holy Trinity Guild at Sleaford_, Chapter 2, note 38, page 92:


> When, therefore, this Alypius had set himself to the vigorous execution of his charge (usselo note: 'his charge' means 'his task', which was to replicate the Temple of Jerusalem in Britain. Ie, to build the Knights Templar temple at Temple Bruer), in which he had all the assistance that the governor of the provinces could afford him, horrible balls of fire breaking out near the foundations, with frequent and reiterated attacks, rendered the place, from time to time inaccessible to the scorched and blasted workmen ; and the victorious element, continuing in this manner, obstinately and resolutely bent, as it were, to drive them to a distance, 5 they fled together for refuge to a neighbouring church ; some to deprecate the impending mischief ; others, as is natural in such cases, to catch at any help that presents itself ; and others again enveloped in the crowd were carried along with the body of flyers. There are those who say that the church refused them entrance ; and that when they came to the doors, which were wide open but a moment before, they found them on a sudden closed by a secret and invisible hand ; a hand accustomed to work these wonders for the terror and confusion of the impious, and for the security and comfort of godly men. This, however, is now invariably affirmed and believed by all, that as they strove to force their way in by violence, the Fire which burst from the foundations of the temple, met and stopped them, and one party burned and destroyed, and another it desperately maimed, leaving them a living monument of God's wrath against sinners. But the thing most wonderful and illustrious was a Light, which appeared in the heavens, of a Cross within a Circle.



A Cross within a Circle in the sky... following balls of fire appearing at Temple Bruer's foundations... Hmm...




Your browser is not able to display this video.



_Source: __Futurama, S01, Ep01_

But that's ridiculous. The only people talking about that kind of force are the Electric Universe people. They say a plasma blast may have destroyed Troy.

I wonder... if you had a lot of soldiers with heat burns, UV burns, and perhaps even radiation burns, would you need a lot of blood and plasma to treat them? Would it help for them to bathe in uncontaminated blood products?

And what would you call such an illness?

Actually, geologists have carefully considered the possibility of aerial events over this area. For example, in 2009 it was claimed an aerial event created the Silverpit crater in the bed of the North Sea just north of Lincolnshire's coast:

_Silverpit crater location. __Source_​You should really look at the profile of the crater shown on that source page. In the 2009 photo below, members of the British Geological Society are shown voting on what created Silverpit:


_British scientists do science. __Source_​
They concluded Silverpit was created by salt moving under the sea bed.

Don't laugh. Earth scientists do encounter genuine difficulties explaining Lincolnshire's geology and geomorphism ('hills and valleys' to you and me) so voting is probably as effective as any other method. Including the Scientific Method.

For example, when describing the course of the River Witham, they use words like: "most unusual" (see page 1), "anomalous" (see page 97), and "abnormal" (see page 75).

_Not the shortest course. River Witham shown in blue (minus its Boston outfall). __Source_​Like several Lincolnshire rivers, the Witham has two startling abilities:

It flows up valley sides, then
Erodes gaps through them low enough to flow through like a normal river.
This second ability spares geography teachers from having to answer difficult questions.

Another oddity is the way the deep rock structures under Elloi and surrounding areas taper together to the north:

_East Midlands bedrock structures. __Source_​That's bedrock. Even weirder, to my mind, is the near-surface 'superficial' layout. Elloi sits on shallow alluvial deposits arranged in a near-perfect circle:

_East Midlands superficial structures. __Source_​I added the red circle.

It looks as though an enormous force blast-excavated the subsoil from Elloi, leaving a shallow crater behind. Then Elloi's rivers and the North Sea flooded back in and backfilled the crater with alluvial deposits. Leaving Elloi with the expensive problem it still has today - being largely below sea-level.

Weirdly, the centre of the circle is about where giant John O'Gaunt King John is said to have lost his masers treasure.

*Side-note:* This map has several other interesting features. A seemingly insignificant feature is that, at about 10:30 pm clockwise, the circle intersects higher ground near a village called Swineshead. There are other items of interest but Swineshead appears again in this post's next map.

Perhaps one of King John's men got boozed up, mishandled a mazer and took out Elloi. Perhaps some opposing civil war air force army took out King John's mazer battalion as they crossed the Wash.

Perhaps Elloi's superficial ground layers were scoured away by Silverpit's tidal waves. Perhaps the Silverpit creation event was one of several.

Personally, I suspect Silverpit has a separate explanation too terrible to talk about. One linked to a strange geological feature called the Immingham Channel. But regardless of what I think, when we consider the ruins, the water damage, the mudflood, the bog oaks, the scorching, the recovery and Stukeley, Byng and Oliver's write ups, we can justifiable ask: what are we actually looking at?

Could it be we are looking at evidence of a single vast war and its subsequent cover-up?

I've already shown - at least, I think I have - that there was a vast 'something'. Now I'll try to show there is the cover-up that goes beyond the state of Temple Bruer's remains. That the cover-up links the destruction of Elloi with the destruction of Russia and northern Europe.

The original draft of just this next part was even longer than this entire post. So what follows is a very short version.

*Chronological Manipulation*

We know some stratigraphers, chronologists and questioning historians say there is no evidence or logic to support the first millennium (AD 0 - AD 1000).

If they are correct, then it follows that the Roman invasion of England in AD 44 becomes the Roman invasion of England in AD 1044. Or, if you want, the Norman invasion of England in AD 1066 becomes the Norman invasion of England in AD 66.

Either way, if you remove the first millennium, the 'Romans invaded' narrative coincides with the 'Normans invaded' narrative.

Which might explain why some Normans arrived with Italianesque names that later became French names. For example, from Nocton Hall - A History - Metheringham Area News:



> ...one of William’s leading soldiers Norman de Adreci (D’Arcy) arrived to be allotted 33 parishes choosing Nocton as his base to enjoy over four decades here.



Adreci's Nocton base includes Dunston Pillar. It is about 30 miles upstream of the River Witham's *current* Boston outfall.  Until a 1014 flood, the Witham entered the Wash via Elloi's large Bicker Haven sea harbour. Or so Wikipedia's authors allege. It lay to the west of Swineshead.

But Byng described being shown where one of the harbour's inner navigation marks had stood - before its owner sold it for timber:


_High ground east of Bicker Haven. __Source_​So that marker - a yew tree - stood in place for 747 years. It stood through multiple wars, storms, fires, changed soil hydrology, changed climate, and mass tree falls until it was felled by market demand for timber to rebuild a ruined country. Remarkable.

A canal also linked Nocton to Bicker's sea harbour via the Witham. It ran from the Witham to a wharf at Timberland, just south of Nocton, on top of the alleged 'Roman' 80 mile-long Car Dyke canal. The wharf was still marked on 1805 and 1815 maps.

_Timberland harbour. Ordnance Survey First Series, Sheet 70. __Source_


Same map, larger scale. _Source_​
In 1808, canal engineer John Rennie (the Elder) reported Timberland Dike - the canal to the wharf - was navigable. Along with neighboring segments the Nocton Delph and the Branston Delph. This according to John Boyes and Ronald John Russell's _The Canals of Eastern England_, 1977, ISBN 978-0-7153-7415-3.

Which is odd because it would take a lot of effort to dig out navigable canals from the Witham to villages like Timberland - just to ship out ordinary agricultural produce from its nearby cluster of villages: Dunston, Nocton, Metheringham, Potterhanworth (also the site of a proposed pleasure gardens at the foot of a tower (Google Maps), (Google Streetview)).

Perhaps their produce fetched prices worth the investment.

There's a lot wrong with the whole 'Roman Car Dyke canal' story. Especially around Nocton. To save space, I've cut it. But its problematic nature could explain why Wikipedia's Car Dyke entry is so very cautiously worded.

And Car Dyke's name offers another clue, which we will come to.

'Romans equals Normans' theory also explains:

Why so much Norman architecture is called 'Romanesque'.
Why people can't distinguish between Roman and medieval structures and materials:





Your browser is not able to display this video.



_You say 'Roman', I say 'Norman'. Source: __Time Team: Piercebridge episode_

Why 'Roman' Pompei was destroyed in 1631. Just ten years before  tensions in England erupted into what we're taught was an English Civil War.
And why, in _History of the Holy Trinity Guild at Sleaford_, as I said in this post, Oliver describes the area's 18th Century elite as if they had followed immediately after the Norman baronial/manorial families that - conventionally - settled immediately after the Normans. It reads as if Oliver didn't have enough anecdotes to fill the gap between, say AD 1200 and AD 1650.
*Coincident Timing with Events in Russia, Europe*

In 1733, ten years before becoming Nocton's owner, Francis Dashwood visited 'newly-built' St Petersburg. He sailed via Copenhagen. From _Sir Francis Dashwood's Diary of his Visit to St Petersburg in 1733 - Betty Kemp, Slavonic and East European Review, 38_, page 197.

Date: 1733-05-30:


> Ashore at Copenhagen... diminished by a third about 5 or 6 years ago, by a dreadfull fire, [1] that took in Severall parts of the town at once



And Kemp's footnote:


> 1. The great fire of October 1728, which destroyed a large part of the old town.



and later:



> Near to this is the chamber, of rarities, where there are Severall rooms and a few good pictures, all going to ruin and some entirely Spoilt, except a Rubens, two Raphael, a Carlo Lotti, and one of Caraveggio, and two or three Landskip.



That last sentence could be inserted into Byng's 1791 description of Lincolnshire's ruins and you would have no idea it was about a different place, written by a different author. For examples, see Byng's descriptions of Grimsthorpe and Belvoir Castles in _Torrington Diaries_, pages 127 and 133.

A 1730 English Year Zero, a 1730 Danish year Zero and a 1730 St Petersburg Year Zero puts us at the Russia/Siberia reset suspected by Russian stolen history researchers based on their evidence of destruction by flood and fire. And their suspicions of thermonuclear/plasma warfare.

It's curious Dashwood and Byng were interested in paintings. Had an art market already blossomed? Or were some paintings potentially problematic if the hoi polloi saw them? In Russia, for example, some stolen history researchers no longer buy into the idea that lances and spears were the simple spearing weapons we are told they were.

Elloi shares with Russia 's several other easy-to-miss details in addition to mudflood, flat land, destroyed churches, absence of old forest, a nearby town called Peterborough and river names that visually resemble each other. Like Neva and Nene.

Neva and Nene? One of the oddities of Temple Bruer is that some of its older grafitti has the letter N reversed.

Another oddity is the 'Le Carre' family name and its variant 'Carr'. Found in Sleaford - near the north-pointing tip of Elloi - the names Le Carre and Carr also crop up in many links between Russia and England. From espionage thrillers to Lockhart Plots to political analysts specialising in early Soviet politics. To the timber business.


_Bog oaks: a good way to get a start in the timber industry._​Not to forget the name of the 'Roman' Car Dyke canal that linked the tip of Bicker near Sleaford to Nocton. Nor a now-forgotten 18th Century proposal to build a canal link between Sleaford and Lincoln. Part of Lincolnshire's missing documentation includes papers relating to the 18th Century draining of the 'mere' (lake) along the route of this canal.

We encounter other odd name-related coincidences. 19th Century scientists who helpfully explain the bog oaks for us have names like 'Edward Bogg'. Another, who help explain the alluvial deposits for us had the last name 'Dikes' ('Dike' means both 'ditch' and 'low, artificial ridge' in Elloi dialect. It often gets mistranslated as 'shaft' in Russian). We have engineers of the River Witham's embanking scheme called 'Joseph Banks'. And we have local historians called 'Prior' and 'Pryor'.

I realise I am skipping here. I'm trying to keep this post readable.

Another eerie similarity coincidence is between the Dashwoods and the Hobart family, who took over Nocton after the Dashwoods. The name is associated in England with Hobart's Funnies - experimental armoured warfare technologies - though I don't know for certain that he was of the same Hobart family. Nor if the Lincolnshire Hobarts are associated with Hobart the global manufacturer/distributor of meat processing equipment. What I do see is that at times, the 18th Century Hobarts show a remarkable resemblance to their Dashwood predecessors. From Nocton Hall - George Hobart:



> On the 29th December 1767 the Hobarts gave a grand masquerade at Nocton Hall which may have been a house-warming to celebrate their advent. The guests were met at the door by a Turk in a white bearskin, who took their tickets. They were received by Mr Hobart as 'Pan' – his dress dark brown satin, made quite close to his shape, shag breeches, cloven feet, a round shock wig, a mask, a leopard skin over his back, and in his hand a shepherd’s pipe. Mrs Hobart was dressed in a muslin petticoat, puffed very small and spotted with spangles. Several dancers, including the hostess, had two costumes. Among the guests were Lord Exeter, Lord and Lady Vere Bertio, Lady Betty Chaplin, Sir Cecil and Lady Wray, the Huttons, the Sibthorps, the Custs, the Amcotts, the Neviles and all the great Lincolnshire families, all in fancy dress.



If you have read Dashwood's origins and interests, you'll be aware of even more resemblances than the obvious ones in the quote above.

So besides the Hobarts, it might be fair to say all the great Lincolnshire families show a remarkable resemblance to the Dashwoods. And that's hardly a surprise because if you research the Bertie family you find you are researching the Hobart family.

A love of fancy dress - especially religious-themed fancy dress - brings us to the Franciscans so feared by central America's indians. One of Francis Dashwood's quirks was to have himself painted as the Franciscans' patron: St Francis of Assisi - the patron saint of animals:


_Francis Dashwood fancy dress: as clergy, pope, Franciscan monk, St Francis of Assisi_​Personally, I think these images may be faked. But regardless, western Internet commentary tends to miss the association between Dashwood's Franciscan robes and indian claims about the pishtaku's Franciscan robes.

Another miss could be the frequent claim that Dashwood relished being portrayed as a sacrilegious friar - or clergyman or pope - because he ogled naked women. I think he and his friends may have made up the whole 'monk', 'friar', 'abbot' part of the religion business. But whatever, the women are portrayed with a striking feature: their anemic bloodlessness. They may also be shown limbless or hand-less. In contrast, Dashwood holds a goblet that contains red wine or blood. The women may represent butchered human carcasses. In the last image above, the lifeless woman may not be laying on a floating bedsheet but on unwrapped 'butcher paper'.

Bloodletters helped monks and became modern barbers. In Britain, the bloodletter and barber's symbol is a red and white striped pole. In some countries it also has a blue stripe. They are the three colours chosen for many national flags.




_The bloodletter's symbol and barber's pole. __Source_​
It's sometimes argued that Stanley Kubrick's_The Shining_ is an encrypted history lesson. _The Shining_ contains this scene:




Your browser is not able to display this video.



_Who is the caretaker? We are the caretaker. Source: The Shining, 1980_

You see:

Red and white decor.
Jack cleans his dirty hands
Grady wears white gloves - his hands are clean and are not expected to become dirty
A casually-dressed working man who needs a haircut.
A neatly-dressed, balding man (with something of a friar's cut).
Each man's maturity - their attitude and behaviour - copies their appearance (and I trimmed even more obvious examples of this from the beginning and end of this clip).
You understand that the camera shot flips back and forth to show they are both the same man, right? The same man at different stages of his development.

And you understand there has been an unpleasant butchery interlude.

*What does it all mean?*

Hey, search me. What I think is that _The Shining's_ caretaker theme and - arguably - its absent owners theme and the development theme also appear in Kubrick's _2001, A Space Odyssey_. In _2001_, Bowman is an astronaut-cum-caretaker who ends up in a room that blends 18th Century furniture with modern illumination. A bit how Oliver blends Roman Medieval times with the 18th Century in _History of the Holy Trinity Guild at Sleaford_. Except that in _2001_, things are inverted: the lighting is in the floor and the 18th Century is blended with modernity.

In _2001_, unseen entities whisper around Bowman. He is not dominant. He is apparently contained, seemingly watched, perhaps the focus of a whispered discussion.

From Jean Hardouin:


> Jean Hardouin (1646-1729) was a scholar of classical literature. In 1685 he published an edition of Pliny's _Natural History_. There was nothing unusual about the edition itself, which was considered to be of merit and very well edited. What was unusual was that despite being so knowledgeable about classical literature, Hardouin had very strange ideas about its origins.
> 
> According to Hardouin, the majority of classical Greek and Roman literature had not been produced by Greek and Roman authors. Instead, it had been forged during the Middle Ages by a group of Benedictine monks. He also argued that all extant Greek and Roman coins were forgeries.



You don't need me to unpack this sentence:


> despite being so knowledgeable about classical literature, Hardouin had very strange ideas about its origins.



The quote continues:


> [Hardouin] never revealed why such a vast deception had occurred. He only declared, elliptically, that when he died the reason would be found written on a piece of paper the size of his hand. The reason, unfortunately, was never found.



Another memorable moment from _The Shining_ is its final frame:

_Jack palms a piece of paper in his right hand. Source: __The Shining, 1980_​It's good to see Jack smartened up and was even invited to the party.

I just wonder who the other party-goers are.

_Edit: cleaned up, and adds leprosy hint, fixes hyperlink_

The .txt attachment below is a rough transcript of Chapter I from _History of the Holy Trinity Guild at Sleaford_. Rough but easier to search in than the PDF.


----------



## Silveryou (Sep 23, 2021)

usselo said:


> If they are correct, then it follows that the Roman invasion of England in AD 44 becomes the Roman invasion of England in AD 1044. Or, if you want, the Norman invasion of England in AD 1066 becomes the Norman invasion of England in AD 66.


It appears that in the year 1065 AUC (Ab Urbe Condita), which is year 312 AD (Anno Domini), 'Constantine I defeats usurper Maxentius at the Milvian Bridge, becoming the only Roman emperor in the West.' (Battle of the Milvian Bridge - Wikipedia). There are not many important battles on a bridge in history. Another important one is the Battle of Stamford Bridge in 1066 AD (Battle of Stamford Bridge - Wikipedia). Constantine connection with Britain is notorious. Is there a hidden meaning to this?

EDIT: Constantine allegedly the first christian Emperor is in some way similar to the tale about Arthur accepting the new faith. Both establish a new capital.


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## Jd755 (Sep 23, 2021)

Silveryou said:


> Stamford Bridge


It's the name of a village.


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## Silveryou (Sep 23, 2021)

kd-755 said:


> It's the name of a village.


Yeah, I'm saying that in my opinion there is some sort of connection between these stories, even though I cannot swear it.

But I remember there was a battle on a bridge involved. The wiki says (Battle of Stamford Bridge - Wikipedia):


> The English advance was then delayed by the need to pass through the choke-point presented by the bridge itself. The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle has it that a giant Norse axeman (possibly armed with a Dane Axe) blocked the narrow crossing and single-handedly held up the entire English army.


Here a representation, upon many, of the Milvian Bridge battle that, according to medieval lore, was a duel between Constantine and Maxentius.


No Norse axemen represented here, but it's nonetheless a famous duel on a bridge happening in 1065 AUC versus 1066 AD.

EDIT: no Norse involved unless Romans were Normans.


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## Jd755 (Sep 23, 2021)

Seems more akin to one author heard or read a tale and retold it. I remember a painting either on here or in the archive of version 1 wherein a similar giant axeman held up an opposing army, Sorry cannot recall the name of the painting or the name of the thread.


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## trismegistus (Sep 23, 2021)

Silveryou said:


> Yeah, I'm saying that in my opinion there is some sort of connection between these stories, even though I cannot swear it.
> 
> But I remember there was a battle on a bridge involved. The wiki says (Battle of Stamford Bridge - Wikipedia):
> 
> ...


Paintings aren’t the only medium in which this is presented…


_View: https://youtu.be/Kg2D1SrUw48_


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## feralimal (Sep 25, 2021)

More excellent work - you can't help but wonder whether there are separate schools for connected people (HG Wells, Stanley Kubrick) where they are taught a different (more accurate) history.

I want to know more about Francis Dash_wood_ (dash/destroy wood) - have I missed a write up on him?

Bog oaks in _Timber_land 

I see what you mean re the red circle you use to mark the wash.  In fact, it almost looks like a exit wound, where something was fired from a south-west point and was heading in a north-east direction.  Maybe we're like ants living in our little corner, with bigger ants bosing us about sometimes - where creatures the size of people (stretching the metaphor of us as ants) - throw a stone or something, causing devastation to our ant colony   On the same vein, it is also possible to view the map of the world we are presented with, that shows 'drifting continents', as a smashed plate.

In other news, I thought this wikipedia entry was interesting - from: Father of the chapel - Wikipedia :


> Father of the chapel (FoC) or mother of the chapel (MoC) are the titles in the United Kingdom and Australasia referring to a shop steward representing members of a trade union in a printing office or in journalism. The FoC or MoC is assisted by the clerk of the chapel or by a deputy FoC/MoC.
> 
> In the printing trade, a chapel is the traditional name given to a meeting of compositors. The name originates in the early history of printing in Great Britain, though the National Union of Journalists states that the precise origins of the terms are unclear National Union of Journalists (NUJ): Chapels and branches .
> 
> The name also honours the origins of British trade unionism, where non-conformist churches often acted as covers for trade union activity, which was illegal at the time.


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## feralimal (Sep 26, 2021)

@usselo I'd also like to get a better understanding of the tunnel sizes.  Do you know - are they giant sized, or human sized?  I hope I haven't missed this info already..  sorry if you've already covered this.  And I wonder what the internals are like for those houses that have large doors - they should be on a bigger scale too, which should be easy to verify.  Do you know that?


----------



## usselo (Sep 27, 2021)

Silveryou said:


> It appears that in the year 1065 AUC (Ab Urbe Condita), which is year 312 AD (Anno Domini), 'Constantine I defeats usurper Maxentius at the Milvian Bridge, becoming the only Roman emperor in the West.' Is there a hidden meaning to this?



There is a hint of the same fenland bowl-creation event dated 38 years after the Milvian Bridge defeat date (Ie, 350 AD versus 312 AD). From: Britain's sinking land - exploring the Fens:


> Even so, the North Sea had a nasty little jump between AD 350 and 550, flooding the coasts of northern Europe with an extra 2 feet of water and sending its inhabitants - folk known as Angles and Saxons - fleeing (although “conquering” might be the better word) into ill-prepared Roman territories.
> 
> At the start of this rise, the areas we know as the Fens were a well-settled part of Roman Britain ruled from the town of Duroliponte (Cambridge, UK) by its native people, the Christianized Romano-Celtic Iceni. Then the sea level rose, and history’s curtain went down for two centuries.
> 
> When the curtain came back up, Duroliponte and the Iceni had disappeared, and 300,000 acres of marshlands covered the northwestern flank of the pagan German kingdom of East Anglia. The modern Fens had come into existence.



For people using the "pre-1000 AD there were Romans" framework, it looks like these two events are linked. Obviously, _British Heritage's_ article is problematic in a "dog that didn't bark" sort of way, but that's a separate problem.



Silveryou said:


> Both establish a new capital.



When researching the Stamford canal/Deeping doors post, I encountered various oddities that left me wondering if The Deepings and South Holland (the former 'Elloi') districts had been a pre-London capital or perhaps its port. This based on the:

Bigger implications of the River Welland's peculiar course, as described in that post. And the implications of these blog posts about ancient canals etc by various Russians bloggers.
Nearby Stamford's Burghley House being given such importance (via the William and Robert Cecil entities) despite its distance from London.
In addition to the River Welland's problematic course, some of the fen drainage just outside the red circle in the British Geological Survey's 'superficial surface mineralogy' map above just begs for more investigation. Low hanging clues are the physical drainage structures themselves and the absence of financing and construction documentation.

Speculating using my model, which discards the '0 AD - 1000 AD' narrative and its Roman accoutrements:

A lot of what we are told was 'Roman water management' could actually be 18th Century improvement (1792-1793).
Some of that improvement _could be_ small parts of pre-existing canal structures dug out after the 'event'. Or use of pre-existing technologies/skills that were still available but disappearing. That would account for the oddities of the River Welland.
Again, see the article: Britain's sinking land - exploring the Fens. The article is steganographically loaded. Put a mask - a Cardan grille - over it and some plaintext clues emerge. Explain masks/grilles to me. Once you've got the gist of using masks/grilles for encrypting/decrypting, try Orwell's _Animal Farm_ as a mask.

Animal Farm (British Accent audiobook) 
_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gwJCJ1TD50_
Animal Farm (American Accent audiobook) 
_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIFK00vf8Y4_

The model I'm using doesn't have humans as living in 'countries' before 1540, nor before - possibly - 1730. Instead, it has humans - at least the English ones - living in small but very many manors and baronetcies controlled (Ie, farmed) by their not-human-as-we-know-it owners. See the map of just a sample of them in this post.

If - like me - you suspect humans were designed as IHASFEMR who got lucky when their owners were blown or blew themselves out of the picture... Or simply went on holiday... Or went to work quarrying another part of the domain... then there were no human-owned capital cities before that moment. So for me, the question of capitals being moved doesn't arise.

As for what our owners' urbanisation looked like. Well, we have access to some physical clues: their church, abbey and monastery ruins. They don't look like offices clustered around an administrative centre. The churches look to me more like a fast-food outlets laid out for a population that travelled a lot.

Speaking of which, is it time to talk about why one English slang word for casual food is 'grub'? Why St Christopher is the patron blood sen saint of travellers? Where the word 'Christ' comes from? Why Christ took three days to ferment rise?

feralimal said:


> More excellent work



Thanks. That was at least 100 hours of research and writing over the last two weeks. I've gone back and tweaked it to bridge over some of the parts I dropped. And will do until edit expiry.

feralimal said:


> I want to know more about Francis Dash_wood_ (dash/destroy wood) - have I missed a write up on him?



The board has researched and discussed Dashwood at various times. I think he is a good example of a ponerology technique where an extended set of entities carrying out an extended range of activities are compressed into one person. RedIce also suspected this of Dashwood. That is: the creation of a highly publicised scapegoat or strawman held up and illuminated so the hoi polloi focus their attention on him rather than the others. The gang is turned into a lone gunman. Censorship and the memory hole then takes care of the rest of the cover up.

feralimal said:


> it almost looks like a exit wound, where something was fired from a south-west point and was heading in a north-east direction.  Maybe we're like ants living in our little corner, with bigger ants bosing us about sometimes - where creatures the size of people (stretching the metaphor of us as ants) - throw a stone or something, causing devastation to our ant colony



Yeah, it is a very interesting shape. There is another example of a proposed exit wound (followed by subsequent magma splatter over the near east). If you look at the quote above from Britain's sinking land - exploring the Fens... in my opinion, the write knows what happened (or was briefed by someone who does). They say nothing about the 'why?' of that sea level rise. Hence my comment about the dog that didn't bark.

Re ants... Appreciating that we are not the dominant creature in this domain was a key breakthrough for me last autumn. Knowing we are 'ants' - or more accurately 'IHASFEMR' - was my first step towards that breakthrough. I took that step when I accepted the evidence that this domain has been quarried on a vast scale.

Since I melded that with an acceptance of the evidence that we were created as a utility product, understanding of other aspects comes more and more easily.

feralimal said:


> And I wonder what the internals are like for those houses that have large doors - they should be on a bigger scale too, which should be easy to verify. Do you know that?



In one case yes, in one case, no, and in the other case: kind of. I'm quite happy to knock on these tall doors, stare up at their giant owners and ask - in what must sound to them my squeaky little voice - if I could have a poke around. Two of them are care homes now and suspicious of potential Covid-carriers. But I have notes and images from two others to sort out. Will update this post in a day or two. However, in the case of this one in Market Deeping, taken from this post, I do have useful data.




_Two-metre pole, three metre door. Market Deeping, UK (Google Maps), (Google Streetview)_​
Me and my measuring stick antics had amused a chap nearby. He told me he had been inside this building and that its internal doors are the same height as its external door. He said the upper floor was the same. It does indeed look to be the same based on window height (which you can see if you click on the Google Streetview link in the caption above).

He also said a building a few doors to the west still has high internal doors. And that normal houses along that street had once been bigger but had been partitioned with internal stone walls into smaller individual houses at some time in the undated past.

feralimal said:


> I'd also like to get a better understanding of the tunnel sizes.  Do you know - are they giant sized, or human sized?  I hope I haven't missed this info already..  sorry if you've already covered this.



Glad you asked - it's a good question. I haven't covered it and it is a nuanced (Ie big) topic in itself even based on what I've seen and heard (from witnesses). Short answer is: they vary. Even within themselves.

*Low tunnels*
Lavenham: BBC Four - Pubs, Ponds and Power: The Story of the Village, Series 1, East, Lavenham's hidden tunnel

The most Erdstall-like tunnel in England (that I know of):
Fowlmere tunnel (N. Pennick) < J. Geomancy Note the seats (a feature of Erdstallen).

One of the items dropped from that post was Britain's General Post Office has small train tunnels under London. They've been discussed on one or other of the Stolen History forums before. BTW: Nocton Park also had narrow gauge railway running around the estate with a hub at the off-puttingly named hamlet of Wasps' Nest. Just for moving potato harvests around, you understand.

*Normal (meaning 'our') height*:
Home | Hellfire Caves/ see top of page video

Of the people I know who have been in tunnels or dealt with walled off tunnel entrances in basements (or seen doors to them), they usually say: "you could stand up in it".

*Varied height:
Nottingham:*

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu_Ef7g8yOE_

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjsZA3PAyZ4
Plenty of other videos for Nottingham: youtube caves of Nottingham - MetaGer

Gainsborough: same. Very varied.

St Clements caves in Hastings is very varied. Other caves in Hastings at the back of sea front shops.
The various urban tunnels discussed on this board, like the Williamson tunnels, the Sheffield tunnels, and the Camden tunnels are the same.

*Weird stories:*
Then you get "things that didn't happen" like a concrete mixing truck or other heavily-loaded construction truck falling into a massive cavern during construction of the Bluewater retail park at Thurrock, east of London. If I remember correctly, it fell in on a Friday morning. The site was closed and reopened the next Monday with a response like "What? Dunno what you're talking about. Sounds a bit far-fetched." in response to any questions.

Think about that story and consider its implications if true... Within three days, the right team were found and brought on site with the right equipment and supplies to fix that problem and ensure it didn't happen again.

BTW: I suspect Buxton, Derbyshire, has an untold vast tunnels story. Just by applying logic to its nature and the reasons given for the 12-year delay fixing up Buxton Crescent.

In a way, the ordinary Bluewater construction workers (and the Buxton Crescent workers, in my opinion) were doing what man was created to do. Belief and obedience were programmed into them, just like a desire to be eaten was programmed into your Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy animal. They believe what they are told and they do what they are told.

We were made that way:


_Da Vinci's Cannon Foundry. __Source_​
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----------



## feralimal (Sep 28, 2021)

I managed to get to the British Library recently.

On the approach you see this statue:



A not very cryptic Masonic statue (the figure is holding a compass)

I visited their free exhibition, and you can see lots of old religious books.  What is surprising is how big some of these are (but I'm not sure the photos convey that the books are pretty big):




I also happened to look at their leaflet with the map and spotted this:


I dismiss the dates provided and the stories the British museum provides.  But, just looking at the artifacts themselves, I find them in support of (one of) the ideas @usselo is setting out - that perhaps Giants were the controllers, the bible relates to them (whether they believe it or use it to influence).



usselo said:


> If - like me - you suspect humans were designed as IHASFEMR who got lucky when their owners were blown or blew themselves out of the picture... Or simply went on holiday... Or went to work quarrying another part of the domain... then there were no human capitals before that moment. As for what our owners' urbanisation looked like. Well, we have access to some physical clues: their church, abbey and monastery ruins. The churches look to me more like a cluster of fast-food outlets laid out for a population that travelled a lot. They don't look like the offices of an administrative centre.



Whatever happened (if @usselo's thesis is good) I think we can perhaps use this as a platform to discern more about what's going on today.  Perhaps even more books were left - perhaps even a literal owners manual.  Perhaps some of those humans remaining were the equivalent of the house slaves, and gained access to that information.  These people could have become a pretty well informed cargo cult - with everything already in place for them!  With the owners in absentia, they stepped up to manage the herd.

I almost wrote 'quary' rather than 'herd' there.

Quary

*a. * A  hunted  animal;  prey.
*b. * Hunted  animals  considered  as  a  group;  game.

It is interesting to me that quarry (mining) and quary (prey) intersect in this story.



usselo said:


> The board has researched and discussed Dashwood at various times. I think he is a good example of a ponerology technique where an extended set of entities carrying out an extended range of activities are compressed into one person. RedIce also suspected this. Taht is: the creation of a highly publicised scapegoat or strawman held up and illuminated so the hoi polloi focus their attention on him rather than the others. Censorship and the memory hole then takes care of the rest of the cover up.



Right - I get it.  I think I've bumped into this technique a few times.  I think the Ancient philosophers may be the same, Mozart, Da Vinci, Elon Musk, Steve Jobs et al, the Queen, the president.  I think of them as brands, that may be associated to a particular person, but where the message/information they delivered is unrelated to the actor(s) that may play them for a while.

Stepping back a sec, this whole thread has unlocked new possibilities to consider.  The possibility that we were created as slaves makes sense - it seems that we can be trained into a very narrow view of the world, unable to consider alternative ideas even if they are logical and well reasoned.  Christianity seems to be a supplemental work used to assist in managing the slave mentality - putting _their_ morality on the inside - a policeman in each head - all the talk of serving, sacrifice, death worship. I understand that may upset some, but its hard to argue that a good Christian wouldn't also be a good slave, being 'good' in this life and getting rewards in the next. I suspect that other religions fill the same role in their regions, fwiw. Anyway, food for thought


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## usselo (Sep 29, 2021)

feralimal said:


> I almost wrote 'quary' rather than 'herd' there.
> Quary
> *a. * A  hunted  animal;  prey.
> *b. * Hunted  animals  considered  as  a  group;  game.
> ...


Great stuff! Good 'quary' catch. I'm happy to lend you my measuring stick any time you want to lay it next to artifacts. 

feralimal said:


> Christianity seems to be a supplemental work used to assist in managing the slave mentality - putting _their_ morality on the inside - a policeman in each head - all the talk of serving, sacrifice, death worship.



That's a good summary of what our 'impulse to religion' does. And by design. My sense is that it has been 'used' twice, once at human-creation time, and again some time after we were "freed".

I don't think older stone churches, abbeys, monasteries were built for the benefit of humans by humans as we understand 'humans'. I think it is likely they were built for the benefit of non-human entities as 'human processories-cum-fast-food outlets'. This would explain many, many things - including why there are no construction plans for churches until 1819 (if I recall correctly).

We seem to have been designed to accept the claim that churches, abbeys, etc, were portals to a better quality of life for us. See the 'Exaltation of the fabricant' video clip at the top of this post. Or the second video clip from the bottom of this post. Churches seem to have been used this way for some unknown time.

Then the churches and abbatoirs abbeys were ruined. During the 1642-1651 English Civil War?

And then they were rebuilt. The rebuild being in progress by 1791, having perhaps started 20 years or so before?

Modern Christianity seems to stem from that rebuild time (18th Century into the 19th Century).

The second set of church builders, re-builders, and managers - the Church Commissioners - *seem* to be human. Perhaps they originally rebuilt and ran the remaining churches as meat and materials processing units because there was a food emergency. My original proposition is this was caused by floods. This conjecture is what the American and European pishtaku experience seems to indicate. You can see how this situation might develop among surviving humans. If most humans were the original entities' farm animal/slaves, then any humans possessing more advanced knowledge - such as reading, writing Latin, and using church equipment, would be in a good position to take advantage of their more naive, more vulnerable human compatriots.

'Naive' in the sense that we didn't know any other function of churches and 'vulnerable' in that we did (and still do) retain our designed-in tendency to defer to authority, to uniforms, etc.

As an example of how suspiciously messed up the documentation of even recent churches is, take a look at the PDF attached to this post. It was originally by Chrisopher Webster, of the UK's Georgian Group, who was trying to work through some of the problems of 19th Century fenland churches. Scroll through the attached version looking for my yellow highlights - they get better as you go further. Despite being early 19th Century churches, their history is a mess on date and location grounds alone.

Original is at https://georgiangroup.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/GGJ_2017_15_Webster.pdf. I'm not knocking Webster's work. It's good work. It's just not using the appropriate model.

There are a few other, not-highlighted hints in that work. I think you can also begin to pick out other parts of what went on if you use my model of recovery from ruin by parties who initially used churches to continue their function as butcheries and materials processing workshops. For example, talking on page nine of that Georgian Group PDF about the 'questionable' locations of the new chapels:


> Carrington is similarly isolated, but stands opposite Carrington house, appearing almost as an estate chapel



A private slaughterhouse then? Built for another mysterious 'Carr' family, as mentioned above .

Several of the chapels are sited at a crossroads rather than near a community. It reminded me of Rev George Oliver's comments about the locations of 'market crosses'. Which led me to pose two questions to myself: choral == corral? Chorus == Horus? As in: Horus, god of the sky and of "Time". As in "Your time has come". If that seems nonsense, it helps if you've watched the two video clips above.

We get confirmation of the date of the start of a moment of freedom, followed by its end with the imposition of new restrictions and burdens from the history of tolls on the River Welland:


> The principle of there being no tolls for use of the river was established by the 1664 act of parliament. This was reversed by the 1794 act, which imposed high tolls



I wondered if the British Library statue was measuring a masonic chequerboard so I went to Google maps. I'm not sure I could identify the statue but I certainly identified the chequerboard:


_British Library, Euston Road, London_​If I recall correctly, there was a discussion about the building the British Library replaced. I have a faint memory that it had extensive underground vaults. Could be wrong, haven't searched.

It's interesting to see that the British Museum opened in 1753, 20 years after Year Zero; 100 years before London's Great Exhibition. A suspicious mind might wonder if its fee-paying, personally-guided visitors were triaging the usable from the unusable, the safe from the unsafe ('unsafe' in public hands, that is) and working out which technologies could be - and should be - brought on-line.

Libraries... *liberated* information.
Museums... *curated* collections of artifacts (fake and genuine).
Great Exhibitions... *curated* collections of technologies.
Dashwood, Byng and his boss Colonel Bertie were noting building remains (location, condition) and their contents. Dashwood and Byng were very focused on paintings and Colonel Bertie on church 'brasses':




_Brass-rubbing: a method for recording and sharing 'difficult' data? __Source_​
And, as we see in the Dashwood quote above, in 1733 Dashwood was recording locations of paintings in burned out Copenhagen. It seems they used carefully selected remnants from the past to bootstrap current society's culture - and its technologies.

I've already speculated that they wanted to hide some paintings from the hoi polloi. Technologies too. Such as non-paper data storage:

Media of the Past - part 1
Media of the Past - part 2
Media of the Past - part 3
Media of the Past - part 4
Media of the Past - part 5
What do bronzes and DVDs have in common?

Perhaps some clues leaked into public collections like the British Library's despite the faking and curating. Books for giants.

Perhaps some clues leak out in other ways:




Your browser is not able to display this video.



_"Things no-one here understands". Source: __The Time Machine, 1960_

From the post above:


> But the thing most wonderful and illustrious was a Light, which appeared in the heavens, of a Cross within a Circle.



I am not saying: "It was God!". I am saying:

If you have the correct key, you can start to read the plaintext, the underlying reality being described.
If you don't have the key and you don't recognise that anything you're looking at is encrypted, then you move along none the wiser.
If you don't have the key but do have the beginnings of a model of the things that were hidden, and of the encryption methods used to hide them, then you can read off some of the plaintext relatively easily.
Expanding on item 3:
And then, when you find more of the plaintext makes sense, you can figure out more about the encryption methods used. And from there you can read off yet more plaintext.

And then, you're dancing. TS Eliot's _Four Quartets_ and Stanley Kubrick come within reach. _The Shining's_ toilet scene in the post above starts to feel blatant. As though Kubrick was becoming desperate. Maybe that's why he later took such a risk with _Eyes Wide Shut_.

From A Short Analysis of T. S. Eliot’s ‘Little Gidding’:


> a puzzlingly abstract poem
> 
> ‘_Little Gidding_’ is slightly different: it was the name of a small religious community formed in Huntingdonshire (now part of Cambridgeshire) shortly before the English Civil War of the 1640s. Like the other three poems in _Four Quartets_, ‘_Little Gidding_’ loosely uses one of the four classical elements to suggest its imagery: here, fire with all of its suggestions of destruction, purgation, and renewal.
> 
> ...



Copies of TS Eliot's _Little Gidding_:
- T. S. Eliot's "Little Gidding"
- PDF version

I'd like to get hold of a copy of '_Little Gidding in 1796_' if anyone has a copy. I'm not up for the registration required of hoi polloi.

In the _The Time Machine_ clip above, Yvette Mimieux says:


> Things no-one here understands.



Immediately afterwards Rod Taylor adds some quick body language.

What does he do?
Who is he communicating with?
What is he saying?
That clip is from a two minute, 30 second-long scene set in what seems to be an old ecclesiastical building. The vault is lined with 'art' and technology. The entire scene is very, very interesting in the light of what Russian bloggers have speculated. I'd post a clip of it but the file is 24Mb.


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## feralimal (Oct 2, 2021)

These types of theatrical sets - like the one in the 1960's time machine - are interesting to me.  I wonder if there is a group who have a continuous thread through the time on this planet.  (I'm thinking of 'they' as 'sysadmins'.)

Perhaps the sysadmins keep working museums of tech from past civilisations - they keep the tech usable and are able to re-produce it when required.  This group takes the long view, and with each human civilisation that starts, they try to steer it in a particular direction using this tech.  Perhaps previous iterations have given them genetic tech, energy tech etc - I'm not quite clear what they will get this time - but perhaps they are also trying to perfect the cage - that would be their crowning achievement.  A perfect cage would be one where the sysadmins have very fine grained control over people, and yet the masses themselves are unaware of the cage at all.  As most of us were for most of our lives.  'They' could live like gods, and likely they would get us to worship them and their system.

I even think this iteration of 'civilisation' may be pretty close to achieving that - a lot of people are a bit suspicious, but most are unaware of the technocratic system we are stepping into.  I can't see us 'waking up' before the trap is sprung - they will simply acclimatise to 'owning nothing and being happy'.

Anyway, along a strand of that thought, one can also imagine that giants could be a genetic tech that was created in order to do some of the heavy lifting that was required at times.  I had been thinking of giants as the administrators of this place, but then we find their houses are side-by-side normal sized houses.  Perhaps it makes more sense to think that they were at the same level as us..

Always interested to hear more thoughts on this.  Or on the general idea of what humans were for.  The idea that we are farmed, and that the farmers aren't acting with malice towards but just have a practical approach - albeit one we don't yet understand - is what I most interested in though.  I'm definitely feeling like cattle that knows something bad is coming and wants to hang out as far away from the farmer as possible - I'm looking to escape up the motorway and make the news!  But, can I glean more info from inside the paddock?

Sorry - this isn't research, more an imaginative exercise.


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## usselo (Oct 7, 2021)

Adding a third supernatural event in the skies above Elloi to the two in _the Elloi post_, this time above Croyland (now Crowland). From: A History of Lincolnshire by William Marrat, page 6:


> In 1467 a great flood overflowed the district of Holland; and among the many prognostics of calamity, such as showers of blood, &c. there appeared in the air armies, both foot and horse, conducted by St. George with his red cross.



1467 was also a time of civil war in England - the (alleged) War of the Roses. I suspect the various English civil wars - and possibly the 1381 and 1536 peasants' rebellions - were all events from the same 1642-1651 civil war pushed back into time to create a pre-War chronology for us to believe in.

Being cynical like that, these accounts of strange lights in the sky, fireballs, and destruction remind me of a mysterious illness described to the Royal Society's Joseph Warner in 1770 by John Latham. Latham was a surgeon and midwife from Kent. Latham also enclosed a 'glove' of skin from his patient's hand, and a deformed foetus. Copy of the letter attached to this post.

In the letter, Latham describes a miller - Mr A. B. - who vomits, aches, has shortness of breath, feels very thirsty, and loses large areas of skin after milling flour. This is how Latham acquired the glove of skin. Vomiting, thirst, aching and loss of large areas of skin are not symptoms of allergy diseases like hay fever or asthma. To find something similar, you might want to look up the symptoms of radiation sickness.

More reports of flood-damaged churches. Again from John Byng's _Torrington Diaries_, p138-139, here describing Thurgarton church:


> The inside is dark and damp, as the Church Yard Ground has risen considerably.



Note Wiki page comment about Thurgarton church:


> It was restored in 1853. Parish registers exist from 1721, whereas earlier records were lost in 1780.



Funny that. Also from that page is this odd find:


> At [nearby] Magsdale, in about 1810, many human bones and spear heads were dug up.



Note the bones are not described as fossilised nor found embedded in rock. So presumably these were relatively recent bones and relatively recent spear heads? I've had an idea for a while that *flint* spearheads are not quite what we are told they were. So finding out more about these spearheads is probably my next bit of research.

And from _On Some British Kistvaens (Stone Coffins) Under the Present Churchyard of Pytchley, Northamptonshire_, by the Rev. Abner W. Brown, Vicar of Pytchley, The Archaeological Journal, June 1846, another reference to green, moss-like mould growing inside churches:


> Like many other country churches it had a coating of green mould or moss for five or six feet up the walls inside, and in winter and rainy weather the water soaked in from the outside and stood in pools in the remote corners of the church floor.
> 
> Possibly this constant wet may have assisted to preserve the ancient bones from entire decay. The enormous accumulations of soil outside of the walls have now been removed down to the level of the floor: and a drain (in some places nine feet deep) has been carried across the churchyard, and has effectually dried the church.



Unlike the various church ruins Byng found in the low-lying fens, Pytchley is 95 meters (311.68 feet) about sea level. Contrast with Bardney, Lincolnshire (where Byng found plenty of mud-covered ecclesiastical rubble), which is at 17 meters (55.77 feet). Think about it: that destruction wasn't caused by a high spring tide in the North Sea.

Depopulation reduced former towns to villages and hamlets. Byng describes Bolinbroke, Lincolnshire (birthplace of the Henry IV entity) reduced from a market town to a village. I mentioned Pickworth in this post as a place so littered with bones that by the early 19th Century it was economic for John Clare dig them out and burn them for lime (kiln site (Google Maps), (Google Streetview)). Let's just take another look at Pickworth:


_Pre-devastation, Pickworth was two miles long. __Source_​


> in 1491 it was said to have no parishioners, and in 1598 "there is no house there nor church". By the C18th, only the church steeple remained (called Mockbeggar) and this was taken down in 1728-31. The village was revived in the C19th.


Source: Page W (ed), 1935, _The Victoria History of the County of Rutland Volume 2_, p265, p267 (Bibliographic reference). SLE913.

Across these posts, we get the impression of water and soil flung across a countryside in enormous quantities and likely at high speed (judging from distance travelled, and the fallen walls). The Pytchley report and the 'Roman' remains lying 2-3m (6-9ft) underground *at the top* of the 65m (200ft) high hill at Lincoln suggest that the force that moved this mud was not particularly bothered by height.

I think it is reasonable to wonder if all these findings were caused by the same event that created the circular geological oddity in this post:


_Was the Norfolk chalk (along the circle south-east of the Wash) originally south of the Lincolnshire Wolds chalk north of the wash? Before being shifted eastwards?_

It might also explain the tendency to earthquakes reported in non-seismic, medieval Lincolnshire. And around the non-seismic English Channel near Dover, but that's another post of its own.



feralimal said:


> @usselo I'd also like to get a better understanding of the tunnel sizes.  Do you know - are they giant sized, or human sized?  I hope I haven't missed this info already..  sorry if you've already covered this.  And I wonder what the internals are like for those houses that have large doors - they should be on a bigger scale too, which should be easy to verify.  Do you know that?


With your question in mind, I checked out the interior of Market Deeping's White Horse pub - whose door height-reducing in-fill was pictured in this post. The ground floor ceilings are about the height of the base of the grey triangle above the infill. So about 3m (call it 10ft) high. An interior porch has been installed behind the doorway, so I couldn't see what had gone on behind the in-fill. Other than that the doorway has been lowered to suit our height. I'd say the history is clear: this place was built for seven-footers and quite possibly for nine-footers.

More tunnel info has come my way since you asked that question. One was a guy who worked at The George - Stamford's poshest hotel-restaurant. He told me that, on their first day of work, the new starters were being shown where everything was kept. In the cellars they were shown a stairway down to a lower cellar, in the walls of which were five or six doors. They were told these doors sealed off old tunnels that led to local churches and "out into the countryside". And that one went to Grimsthorpe Castle (a large mansion) perhaps 15-20 miles away.

He said the doorways looked normal human height. He also said they were told there was a secret about them that couldn't be be talked about.

A couple of days ago, I was casually inspecting this entrance to the crypt beneath St George's Church, Stamford, Lincolnshire.

_Wooden safety barrier for stairwell down to crypt beneath St George's church_


_Crypt entrance-height is normal, top is several feet below ground level_​
This crypt is now home for St George's heating system (an oil tank and heater).

Sitting nearby was an elderly chap with whom I got talking about Stamford having no tunnels. 

He said when he and his wife first moved to Stamford decades ago they looked at the former rectory for Stamford's All Saints Church. This is a big church in the centre of town. Its former rectory is across the road (Barn Hill) from the church. The seller took them on a tour of the house.


> "In its cellar there was a tunnel to the church," he said, "So the vicar could pop in and out."



Naturally, I asked how tall the door was. He said: normal human height, as best he could remember.

Fantastic! Two first-hand eye-witness accounts of six or seven sealed-off entraces to tunnels in Stamford. Of course, offiicially, Stamford has no tunnels:

Secret tunnels
Secrets of Stamford School
I think the background to your question was about whether giants built or used the tunnels that don't exist. My guess is the tunnels served somewhat like servants' quarters in old houses: they weren't decorated, furnished or designed around the aesthetics of the house owners but around the needs of their users. Humans, in this case.

Most of the evidence I have found for giants in east England puts them at about 7ft tall with some evidence of giants 9ft tall.  So, what would being 9ft tall and using normal human height infrastructure look like? We can get an idea from this video of Robert Wadlow, a 9ft tall US giant who died in 1944:




Your browser is not able to display this video.



_Nine-feet tall US giant Robert Wadlow. Source _

Brothers of the Serpent podcast had a good interview with Kyle Delisle about Iroquois legends of giants. Two short audio clips from that show:




your_browser_is_not_able_to_play_this_audio



_Cannibal giants from the northern US. Humans helped by stones from the sky. __Source_





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_Variations among giants and giants eating babies. __Source_

A couple of miles north-east of  Stamford is the village of Uffington, whose St Michael's and All Saints church (Google Maps), (Google Streetview) contains this beauty:

_Two meter (6ft, 6in) pole, 20cm (8inch) segments. _​The grave has a headstone on the left and a small footstone on the right, surrounded by railings.


_1.5m (4ft, 9inches) wide_​
How do we know the footstone is not another headstone, perhaps for a child? Because there is a protocol for footstones. They are (were) used only when there is a risk of the foot of the grave accidentally being re-dug. They also have their own inscription rules: initials of the grave's occupant and their birth and death dates. Like this:


_Footstone__: b. 1788, d 1845_​Uffington church has two crypts, one of them 'Catholic', the other 'everything else'. 'Everything else' includes being subdivided so that the externally accessible crypt is now used as a heating crypt, just as at St George's church:


_External entrance to Uffington Church crypt_


_External entrance to Uffington Church crypt_


_Standard height door at the bottom. Head of door is several feet below ground level_​
Both of the crypts contain coffins, I was told. No-one has been into them for 70 years or more and both are sealed.

About 12-14 miles from Stamford is the village of Rippingale, where the churchyard (Google Maps), (Google Streetview) has the unmarked grave of 16-year old Anne Hardy. At 7ft 2 inches, she was allegedly the tallest woman in England when she died in 1815.

As various posts in this thread evidence, there seem to have been giants in England until very recently. I don't think they were good or bad. Their relationship to us might have been like the relationship between the shire horses and the other animals in George Orwell's _Animal Farm_.

Perhaps their behaviour varied like our behaviour varies - depending on personality, personal circumstances and their job.

Nearby Rutland Water is home to the iconic Normanton church, protected in place before the valley was flooded as part of becoming the main reservoir for the East Midlands.




_Normanton Church, Rutland Water. __Source_​
Its then vicar - Reverend Brian Nicholls - was interviewed about what he found in Normanton's crypt before the valley was flooded. After all, you wouldn't want a bunch of rotting bodies sitting at the bottom of your brand new reservoir:




your_browser_is_not_able_to_play_this_audio



_Leaking lead-lined coffins in Normanton church crypt. __Source_

Especially if they were so radioactive they were interred in lead-lined coffins.


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## feralimal (Oct 7, 2021)

usselo said:


> Being cynical like that, these accounts of strange lights in the sky, fireballs, and destruction remind me of a mysterious illness described in 1770 to the Royal Society by John Latham, a Kent surgeon and midwife from Kent. He describes a miller - Mr A. B. - who vomits, aches, feels very thirsty, and loses skin after milling flour. Latham enclosed a 'glove' of the skin from the miller's hand and a deformed foetus. Attached to this post.


If there was something to be exposed to, it does make sense that a miller would be impacted.  Say there was a widespread 'poison' spread on fields, while the labourers in the field might tolerate it, the miller would get a lot of exposure (the crops from _all_ the local fields) - a dose that he would inevitably inhale when the local flour is ground. It seems to me that he could be a 'canary in a coalmine' in certain circumstances.


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## feralimal (Oct 9, 2021)

Cheers for your thoughts on tunnels too, btw.  This bit jumped out at me:



usselo said:


> And that one went to Grimsthorpe Castle (a large mansion) perhaps 15-20 miles away.
> 
> He said the doorways looked normal human height. He also said they were told there was a secret about them that couldn't be be talked about.



My goodness, tunnels were like roads to these people!  "I'll just dig out a *15-20 mile tunnel*, so I can get to my favourite restaurant without getting wet."

Of course, even a small tunnel is a huge undertaking, and then what would be the point of a secret tunnel if everyone knew about it?  There has to be a hidden reason to complete what is a huge undertaking, that is dug out by hand _and_ only worked on by trusted insiders and without the knowledge of the locals!

And what is the secret the old man mentions, I wonder?  I wonder if he knew, or just that there was a secret being kept?

Also you said:


usselo said:


> This crypt is now home for St George's heating system (an oil tank and heater).



..which makes me think that those churches would have been quite cold places, and in particular the underground crypts would have a stable cool temperature, which (if they aren't damp) would be ideal for storage, like a wine cellar or something..


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## usselo (Oct 9, 2021)

feralimal said:


> My goodness, tunnels were like roads to these people!  "I'll just dig out a *15-20 mile tunnel*, so I can get to my favourite restaurant without getting wet."



_George Hotel, Stamford to Grimsthorpe Castle. Source: Google Maps_​Similarly, from Friaries: Boston | British History Online:


> They had royal licence to construct a subterranean aqueduct from Bolingbroke to their house for the use of themselves and others in 1327



_Bolinbroke to Grey Friars' site, Boston. Source: Google Maps_​
And in the next sentence we learn - if we trust the records - they actually built it and the participants were rewarded:


> and in 1330 Bishop Burghersh granted an indulgence to those who helped in this work.



Somewhere in my collection of notes about the draining of the fens is a mention of a canal being cut under an existing river or canal. References like that stand out because a common 'seed of disbelief' sown by orthodox history writers about some tunnel legends is:


> But such a tunnel would have had to pass under a river!





feralimal said:


> Of course, even a small tunnel is a huge undertaking,


They are huge undertakings for us.

My flashy new signature should explain but I'm not sure if it has 'taken' yet, so from_Torrington Diaries, John Byng, page 343_:


> I viewed the ruins of the old bishop's palace [at Lincoln] (Google Maps), (Google Streetview) and if a sight of caverns, sutteranes (Ie, tunnels), door ways and ruins, is wish'd for, here is enough to serve an antiquary for a week... the gardener remark'd 'that these were fine places before they were _inherited_''.


My italics. The first half of _Animal Farm_ explains what the gardener meant.

Also from _Torrington Diaries_, page 341:


> I found myself upon a fine gravelly road, which brought me to Asgarby village (Google Maps), (Google Streetview), near the road to Boston. Within view at a short distance, are several churches: my wonder was when or how all the churches of this kingdom were built! What all at the same time? and what has preserv'd them?
> 
> Who would or could build them now?


Those two quotes are like hardened drill-bits. But can they drill a hole through the fog of lies within a modern human skull?



feralimal said:


> and then what would be the point of a secret tunnel if everyone knew about it?  There has to be a hidden reason to complete what is a huge undertaking, that is dug out by hand _and_ only worked on by trusted insiders and without the knowledge of the locals!


I'm not sure they were dug by human hand.


feralimal said:


> And what is the secret the old man mentions, I wonder?  I wonder if he knew, or just that there was a secret being kept?


I feel this thread has begun to answer those two questions. 


feralimal said:


> ..which makes me think that those churches would have been quite cold places, and in particular the underground crypts would have a stable cool temperature, which (if they aren't damp) would be ideal for storage, like a wine cellar or something..


Time Team's "Britain's Drowned World" episode on the sinking of Dogger has an interview in London's Trafalgar Square with a climate scientist. He says the climate turned much colder about 250 years ago. Similarly, the Michael Portillo _Great Railway Journeys_ episode on Romney Marsh mentions the climate turning much colder 200-300 years ago. He intereviews a Romney farmer who says England developed its hardy, semi long-wool sheep breed to meet the demand for cold-weather clothing.

Even hardier long-wool sheep were bred on Lincoln Heath, Lincolnshire. The same Lincoln Heath previously discussed in this thread for its association with the Francis Dashwood entity, his Dunston Pillar, and its pleasure gardens. Francis Dashwood was also MP for... New Romney. A town created after Old Romney's coastline changed.

*Romney:*
Was:

_Romney Bay before climate change. Source: long forgotten_​Is:

_Romney today. Source: Google Maps_​
Francis Dashwood got everywhere there was climate and coastline change! So much to celebrate I guess.

We already know he and his successors held great parties. From Poem - Blankney Masquerade - Metheringham Area News:


> In her book, _Henry Chaplin a Memoir_, his daughter The Marchioness of Londonderry writes, 'an old yellow sheet of paper has been preserved on which in faded ink is written , A List of the Company as they danced at the Masquerade at Blankney, the 9th January 1749'. Shortly before the masquerade Diana Chaplin had been married and it is thought the event may of been held in her honour. Her father Thomas Chaplin had died in 1747 and it was presumed his unmarried son John Chaplin, Diana's brother, hosted the occasion. Today's poem was written based on details from that faded piece of paper and accompanying notes.
> 
> *Blankney Masquerade*
> 
> ...



Which didn't differ much from the ball held by next-door neighbours George and Albinia Hobart 13 years later. From Nocton Hall - George Hobart:


> On the 29th December 1767 the Hobarts gave a grand masquerade at Nocton Hall which may have been a house-warming to celebrate their advent. The guests were met at the door by a Turk in a white bearskin, who took their tickets. They were received by Mr Hobart as 'Pan' – his dress dark brown satin, made quite close to his shape, shag breeches, cloven feet, a round shock wig, a mask, a leopard skin over his back, and in his hand a shepherd’s pipe. Mrs Hobart was dressed in a muslin petticoat, puffed very small and spotted with spangles. Several dancers, including the hostess, had two costumes. Among the guests were Lord Exeter, Lord and Lady Vere Bertio, Lady Betty Chaplin, Sir Cecil and Lady Wray, the Huttons, the Sibthorps, the Custs, the Amcotts, the Neviles and all the great Lincolnshire families, all in fancy dress.



I already included that quote in this post above but we learn a little more about this particular ball from: Nocton Hall - Revelations of an Imp - Chapter 9:


> Upstairs, the pomp and ceremony of the early introductions over, the gentle thaw set in to break the shyness of the introverts. The usual flow of alcohol disguised by such as 'a coachman's hat', 'sidesaddle', 'knickerbocker' and 'blacktea', removed barriers between the sexes. The party was away with a swing and the Hall rang to the sound of music with human tittle tattle, unlike anything in the animal world during the softening up period when boy meets girl. Albinia, with her untiring energy, motivated the gaiety and was acclaimed the best party organiser in the county. Among the guests for the December get-together were the Duke of York, the Marquis of Exeter, Lord Nevile, Albinia's parents, Lady Betty Chaplin, Sir Cecil Wray, the Huttons, Sibthorpes, Custs and Amcotts and the high flight of Lincolnshire 'upper-crust'. Albinia created a gasp when disposing of her black cloak with a fitted hood, complete with two ears, she revealed herself as a leopard in a skin tight silk costume. The dress had to stand harsh treatment. Leopards have tails and Albinia's was too tempting to be allowed to dangle. A few adventurous tweeks from the revellers split the delicate fabric and the horseplay enforced a quick change.



Whoah! Sounds like a Playboy party:




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_Nocton playmates arrive in Los Angeles. Video source: __Can't Get You Out of My Head_

So do Albinia's wool-marketing 'stuff balls':


> Because of the heat generated by a dress made from top quality wool, the ladies influenced their designs to show as much of their birthday suits as possible, to the satisfaction of their escorts. When in London, Albinia's breakfast parties in her house adjacent to Buckingham Palace were famous as a meeting place for the smart and interesting members of society.



Invited to a stuff ball? Here are your moves:




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_How commoners think the wealthy danced. __Source_

Actually, it was more like this:




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_"the ladies influenced their designs to show as much of their birthday suits as possible". Video source: __Can't Get You Out of My Head_


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## feralimal (Oct 9, 2021)

A quick side note.  Spurred by this thread, I re-watched the Time Machine film from 2002.  Its an enjoyable enough film (not great), and deviates quite a lot from the book and the 1960's version.  But the deviations are seriously on point for this thread!  I'm thinking specifically of the bits with the 'Head Morlock' played Jeremy Irons.

(Stop reading now, if you don't want to know the plot of the film.)

Basically, 800,000 years into the future, it turns out that the Morlocks have been bred into at least 3 breeds (all tunnel dwelling cannibals).  There are craftsmen, hunters, and brainy Morlocks - we only see one of these (the role played by Jeremy Irons).  There are also the Eloi, who aren't as brainless as in the book or earlier film.  The brainy Morlock caste have developed their cerebral abilities so that they can control the other Morlocks and Eloi.

Despite appearance, the head Morlock is actually a sympathetic character.  He has control, but only wants to act according to his nature.  He explains that without his guidance the Eloi would be wiped out in a couple of months by the hunter Morlocks, rather than being carefully farmed into perpetuity.  Also, he explains that their cannibalistic ways were due to survival in the past, but are now unavoidable - it is their way of life.  To cap off the sympathetic character, he also answers the time traveller's (called 'Alexander', in this version) question, gives him a glimpse of what his life would have been like if things had worked out differently and even allows him to leave in the time machine to go back to his own time!

Here is a clip from the movie - not ideal..

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DA6ZP96OdI_

... but the clip serves to show the head Morlock is no baddie.  The time traveller then acts immorally in my opinion, by trying to kill him.

To bring this back to the thread, both the Eloi and low-level Morlocks are acting according to their nature.  Even the head Morlock is sympathetic - he acknowledges the barbarity but believes that he is trapped by circumstances.  The only un-sympathetic character is Alexander, who what wants to know and possibly change the past and future!  The time traveller with regards to this thread, is us trying to uncover the past.  So, are we the immoral baddies?!?

I think not...  but you can watch this film as if it has been produced for us in investigating the thread, by those head People, in order to justify their behaviour.  It was their just in their nature, I guess.


----------



## Jd755 (Oct 9, 2021)

Have a read of page 53 of Illusions available here https://stolenhistory.net/resources/illusions-the-adventures-of-a-reluctant-messiah.4/
Better still read the entire book

“Please to understand. I did not choose to be born vampire. Is unfortunate.  I  do  not  have  many  friends.  But  I  must  have  a  certain small  amount  of  fresh  blood  every  night  or  I  writhe  in  terrible  pain, longer  than  that  without  it  and  I  cannot  live!  Please,  I  will  be  deeply hurt  -  I  will  die  -  if  you  do  not  allow  me  to  suck  your  blood...  just  a small  amount,  more  than  a  pint  I  do  not  need.”  He  advanced  a  step toward  me,  licking  his  lips,  thinking  that  Shimoda  somehow  controlled me and would make me submit.


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## usselo (Oct 10, 2021)

feralimal said:


> ... but the clip serves to show the head Morlock is no baddie.  The time traveller then acts immorally in my opinion, by trying to kill him.
> 
> To bring this back to the thread, both the Eloi and low-level Morlocks are acting according to their nature.  Even the head Morlock is sympathetic - he acknowledges the barbarity but believes that he is trapped by circumstances.  The only un-sympathetic character is Alexander, who what wants to know and possibly change the past and future!  The time traveller with regards to this thread, is us trying to uncover the past.  So, are we the immoral baddies?!?
> 
> I think not...  but you can watch this film as if it has been produced for us in investigating the thread, by those head People, in order to justify their behaviour.  It was their just in their nature, I guess.


Good point! Do you think Alexander's development goals might include improved tolerance and anger management forgiveness?

In our reality there is (at least) one other entity besides the Morlocks and Eloi. In this respect, Animal Farm fails as a decryption key. It doesn't explain that the animals were deliberately-bred. Hybridised like semi long-wool and long-wool sheep.

Just like chewmans.

So, in addition to understanding Animal Farm as a story of farm-animal rebellion and subsequent lost freedom (a parable for how humans became free and immediately lost their freedom to our current owners), we have to supply our origin story: that our original owners deliberately created us as edible-slaves packed with useful body-parts. That explains:

Our fused chromosome two
Our hairlessness
Our subcutaneous fat
Our relatively high-fat selves.
Our meaty, sometimes fatty, arses
Our super high-fat babies
Our pig-like eyes
Our lack of fear of water
Our innate submergence-in-water response when infants
Our poor night-sight
Our rich colour-sight
Our mental and physical speech abilities
Our bipedalism
Our dexterity
Our smarts
Our loyalty
Our pathetic need to virtual signal
Our tendency to compliance.
*I*ntelligent *H*umans created as *S*laves, *F*ood, *E*ntertainment and *M*aterial *R*esources.

We're a technology.

However, although we're disposable, we weren't designed as throw-away crap. We're a beautiful technology designed by entities that really understand science. Including the permaculture principle of 'stacking' multiple functions into each component.

Shame the 2002 re-make of _The Time Machine_ dropped the 1960 version's 'talking rings' scene. Maybe they were terrified. Terrified of what we might do if we worked out how to use our second most powerful organ. Before we completed our development goals.

From _Stamford Myths and Legends_, Martin Smith, p66:

*A Supernatural Light at St Leonard's Priory*


> This event is told by Robert de Graystanes, the early fourteenth-century chronicler of Durham, elected bishop in 1333. Durham Abbey owned St. Leonards's Priory in Stamford.
> 
> On 12 March 1320, Sir Henry de Stanford, the former bishop of Durham, was buried in the choir of St. Leonard's Priory at Stamford. Suddenly before the alter a 'light shining from heaven, in the manner of a sunbeam' appeared, which was seen as a sign of divine approval of Stanford's opposition to Edward II and the Pope, who had deposed him from the bishopric of Durham. What is also remarkable is that Stanford was born on St. Leonard's day, was elected bishop of Durham on St. Leonard's day and was buried in St. Leonard's Priory.



From _Hidden Lincolnshire_, Adrian Gray, p16:

*A Supernatural Light at Bardney Abbey*


> Years later [St Oswald's] body was brought to Bardney Abbey by his niece but was refused entry by the monks. A miracle was necessary to convince them of foolishness of their ways, a pillar of light appearing in the night sky.



Bardney pillar of light story in slightly more detail from Bardney Abbey – Witches Of The Craft®:


> during the night, a pillar of light appeared over the wagon in which the bones were being carried and shone up into the sky




_Al Naslaa rock, Saudi Arabia. __Source_

_
Al Naslaa rock smooth face, Saudi Arabia. Source_​
When was the vacuum pump invented? Shortly after the 'Romans' disappeared.

How easy is to it build a laser? From The Professor's Homebuilt Lasers Site:


> The nitrogen laser... is one of the easiest gas lasers to build 'from scratch' (and one which has great utility).
> 
> [It] is useful for applications ranging from micro-cutting to pumping dye lasers.




_'Canal Defence Lights' - one of Percy Hobart's 'Funnies'_​
Haven't we we encountered the Hobart family before?


_Modern 'Canal Defence Lights' on Russian armour_​
While we're looking at microwaves, were churches klystrons? 'Catchers' would explain their crucifix shape and klystrons would explain their east-west orientation to the Earth's magnetic field. And then there was that 18th Century obsession with finding old ecclesiastical ruins. And the careful recording of the details of 'chalices', such as in the PDF I've been trying to attach. Which, like the 'Hope' mazer PDF in the earlier post, references a shiny disk found in chalices.

And then there are the strange slots and perforations that are - or were - found in some churches. For example, the odd slot from the altar down to the crypt at Rothwell, shown in post-99448. Or the various examples shown in this 1846 _Archaeological Journal _PDF. Also attached as 003_299_308.pdf.

The other inexplicable thing about churches is the requirement for wax candles. If you go through old stuff like the Rev George Oliver's works, you find references to people having to supply quantities of 'wax' to monasteries. Originally I thought it was human fat, but I'm less convinced of that now.

Urns, urns, everywhere!
On top of old buildings,
Out in the air.

Capped with a lid,
Out in the sun,
All that you need,
For a...

There are two kinds of people in this world:

Those can extrapolate from incomplete data.


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## Potato (Oct 11, 2021)

usselo said:


> Urns, urns, everywhere!
> On top of old buildings,
> Out in the air.
> 
> ...




Bowls full of melted wax?

The second kind of people aren't worthy of an answer? After a seizure my fill-in-the-blank part of my brain has been on vacation.


----------



## usselo (Oct 11, 2021)

Potato said:


> Bowls full of melted wax?


I'm pretty sure chewman urine was used for a range of processes (that's 'stacking' again). So, urns were used to store urine pending collection and sometimes for processing. An example of processing might be while the urine (or some of it) turned into ammonia.

And for tanning. See post-101535, post-103162 and post-104482. You'd probably want to process baby and child-skin 'in the urn' (origin of the word 'intern', by the way) because this controlled environment reduces the risk of damage. Near the problematic Lincolnshire villages of Nocton, Dunston, and Blankney - discussed in recent posts - are the villages of Metheringham and Potterhanworth. The evidence suggests this cluster of villages was a major processing centre for premium products made from human material. Almost lost today are two nearby hamlets: Tanvats and Sot's Hole. Their history is such that they don't have their own wikipedia page, though they are mentioned on Metheringham's page.

'Tanvats' is self-explanatory. "Sot's Hole" is speculated as being a place where a drunk fell into a drain. Well, good guess, but remembering this area was an agricultural freight port until less than 250 years ago, Sot's Hole was more likely an early pub and 'public convenience' ('public toilet'). Workers would be encouraged to have drink and leave their urine in the place provided. Ready for collection. No different to the public conveniences that used to be found underground in the centre of English towns and cities - built in the remains of the country's subterranean human-processing infrastructure.





























_Sot's Holes. All pics source: __https://www.derelictlondon.com/toilets.html_​
Stolen History fans may find familiar events in the text at the source page for the above pics.

There's a useful rule of thumb: invert whatever the 'authorities' tell you. Then you'll be closer to the truth. Examples:

1. People in the past were less developed than we are. No, they - or at least some - were more developed than we are.
2. People in the past were shorter than we are. No, they were taller than we are.
3. People live longer today. No, ordinary people's lifespans are decreasing.
4. People are lazy and unproductive, and deserve poor treatment. No, they are productive.
5. Your urine is useless, smelly stuff you must pay us to take away and treat on behalf of your dirty, disgusting self. No, see below.

By the way, on item 5, the water companies played (and still play) a huge role in re-purposing the infrastructure previously built to process people. But that's another post.

Without doing a couple more experiments, I can't be sure what else urine was processed into. But we have some clues. Misdirected folks - like us - are generally unaware of what ammonia can be used for.

The first chewman-built maser was (allegedly) created in around 1954 by Charles Townes, J. P. Gordon and H. J. Zeiger:


_Chewmans copy create their first maser. __Source_​Townes and team's maser used ammonia.

Papers:

https://journals.aps.org/pr/pdf/10.1103/PhysRev.99.1264
https://journals.aps.org/pr/pdf/10.1103/PhysRev.95.282
Note the device's similarities to one of the artifacts in the Talking Rings scene in The Time Machine post. It's tricky because I edited the clip down to a size respectful of Stolen History's resources. It is easier  to compare Townes' ammonia maser with the maser artifact in that scene if you watch the full 2.5 minute set. However, you can kind of see the artifact I'm talking about just as Rod leaves the vault. In the corner, next to the black statue.

I suspect urine was collected in urns, and was then taken to processing facilities ('churches', 'monasteries'), where it was processed into waxy yellow phosphorus. The BBC did a demo, though they misled Britain's TV license-payers by using suspiciously fresh-looking urine, instead of almost black, aged urine.


_Distilled urine, American know-how, and that weird British thing about pink shirts combine to make the perfect SH video clip_​
Note the set designer specified church-style windows... As with _The Time Machine_ clip, you should always pay attention to set design. There is nothing accidental about it.

Now that you've seen that I am not making this up...

I think some urine may have been processed at home - that would explain the references to people being required to supply wax to local ecclesiasts. A wax tithe. Or, more accurately, a 'wax' tithe.

If that seems hard to imagine, try comparing it with the agricultural cooperatives in Mediterranean countries today. There, local vegetable and fruit farmers take their grapes and olives to a local cooperative facility for processing. There are also some commercial arrangements where farmers contract to supply X volume of grapes each year.

The only things that were different in the past is that involvement was mandatory, the local depot was the church or monastery, and instead of taking your grapes, they were taking the piss.

If you think about it, you'll see the sense in processing piss into phosphorus at home. Provided you have the space and the minimal kit required. There's less weight and volume to carry to church, and you would be supplying a value-added product. Assuming you could meet the church's quality requirements. The references I found to wax tithes suggest people could meet the requirements and did produce 'wax' at home.

The downside is that phosphorus is tricky to handle. Apart from igniting at about 35 deg C, or when it feels like igniting, it can really mess up your jawline. Apparently. So you keep it under water. You only need to keep it away from oxygen, sunlight, and your body.

I've begun to wonder if candles - the ubiquitous illuminatory furniture of the 'church' - were really introduced to steer our more recent ancestors away from remembering how yellow 'wax' was really used. Leaving some religions with a cargo cult belief that they should bring candles to church, and the rest of us with a cargo cult belief in romantic, candle-lit, Christmas hymns sung in the local church.

By the way, if you have been following this thread and it's predecessor, you should really, really think about what the word 'Christmas' actually means. I won't go into it here but read the thread, view the second video clip from the bottom in this post, and engage brain...

So I wonder if the church candle is a cargo cult relic of a stick-shaped, waxy material originally used in organic dye masers (or lasers). Chalices are perhaps holy grails. With their odd shiny disks, they could be conceived as focusing - and handling - devices for 'wax'-based masers. Perhaps for the light-pump, perhaps for the main light show.

To give you a better idea about yellow 'wax' as something other than for candle making, I'll upload a photo later. Bear with me on that because 'wax' is not easy to photograph well and I imagine the volume of 'wax' I have accumulated would take out several neighbouring buildings if it ignited spontaneously.

And that's another thing...

If you've been reading these posts with any care, you will appreciate I am claiming a lot of 'our' science isn't ours. Splitting it into easy-to-model categories, our science is:

Knowledge that has been reverse-engineered from artifacts left by our creators and/or their 'Roman' successors (or even by early chewman experimenters).
Fake science and religion designed to keep us staggering along blindfolded in the wrong direction, awed by wrongness.
Tax, subsidy, and grant grabs.
If items 1 and 2 seem harsh, just read the Byng "inherited" and "who built the churches?" quotes in post-104455 and his other observations in my last few posts. He's telling you how it was, how it is. So are Hope, Brown and Oliver (a revealing name in the context of this post) but Byng lays the facts on the table, then fans them out for you to inspect for yourself.

Suppression of knowledge has consequences. One of those consequences is that true knowledge of the properties of materials has been lost. As a result of that, you can't always assess risks accurately.

In this case, I've realised 'wax' might be prone to lase if:

The camera flash goes off unexpectedly, and
Nearby surfaces are sufficiently reflective.
If you've looked at the split rock image in post-104477 or the surface-level geology map of Elloi (post-104407), you'll understand why I'm hesitating.



Potato said:


> The second kind of people aren't worthy of an answer? After a seizure my fill-in-the-blank part of my brain has been on vacation.


 We're all worthy. The thing about jokes is that they are like a beam of light shone at a prism: it gets fanned out into a range of colours that depend partly on the contents of the light and partly on the shape of the prism.

On that note, here's a couple of jokes going around the local kids at the moment. Besides being an example of how wonderfully kids' minds work, they are a great example of 'stacking'. Those unfamiliar with English joke culture may need an explanation. Don't be embarrassed to ask.



> Why did the chicken cross the road?





> I don't know. Why did the chicken cross the road?





> To get to the stupid person's house!





> Knock, knock!





> Who's there?





> The chicken!


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## feralimal (Oct 11, 2021)

usselo said:


> The only things that were different in the past is that involvement was mandatory, the local depot was the church or monastery, and instead of taking your grapes, they were taking the piss.


'Taking the piss' was a job we did?!?  It does explain the expression.  And perhaps you have also stumbled on an explanation we have all been wondering about - why Versailles has no toilets.  What a bizarre and interesting diversion that illustrates the point of this thread - that people were used as material resources.  Might it also be the power source of all that ancient tech - not resonance, or magnetism or some such - no.  Was ancient tech 'wax'-powered?

Also interesting for the official origin story: Taking the piss - Wikipedia

And Phosphorus: Phosphorus - Wikipedia

Its crystal structure:




> Elemental phosphorus was first isolated as white phosphorus in 1669. White phosphorus emits a faint glow when exposed to oxygen – hence the name, taken from Greek mythology, Φωσφόρος meaning "light-bearer" (Latin *Lucifer*), referring to the "Morning Star", the planet Venus. The term "phosphorescence", meaning glow after illumination, derives from this property of phosphorus, although the word has since been used for a different physical process that produces a glow. The glow of phosphorus is caused by oxidation of the white (but not red) phosphorus — a process now called chemiluminescence. Together with nitrogen, arsenic, antimony, and bismuth, phosphorus is classified as a pnictogen.





> Phosphorus is an element essential to sustaining life largely through phosphates, compounds containing the phosphate ion, PO43−. Phosphates are a component of DNA, RNA, ATP, and phospholipids, complex compounds fundamental to cells. Elemental phosphorus was first isolated from *human urine*, and bone ash was an important early phosphate source. Phosphate mines contain fossils because phosphate is present in the fossilized deposits of animal remains and excreta. Low phosphate levels are an important limit to growth in some aquatic systems. The vast majority of phosphorus compounds mined are consumed as fertilisers. Phosphate is needed to replace the phosphorus that plants remove from the soil, and its annual demand is rising nearly twice as fast as the growth of the human population. Other applications include organophosphorus compounds in detergents, pesticides, and nerve agents.





> Phosphorus has several allotropes that exhibit strikingly diverse properties.[8] The two most common _allotropes_ are white phosphorus and red phosphorus.[9]
> The structure of P4 molecules, determined by gas electron diffraction.[10]
> 
> From the perspective of applications and chemical literature, the most important form of elemental phosphorus is white phosphorus, often abbreviated as WP. It is a soft, *waxy* solid





> *Bone* ash and *guano*
> Guano mining in the Central Chincha Islands, ca. 1860.
> 
> Antoine Lavoisier recognized phosphorus as an element in 1777 after Johan Gottlieb Gahn and Carl Wilhelm Scheele, in 1769, showed that calcium phosphate (Ca3(PO4)2) is found in bones by obtaining elemental phosphorus from bone ash.[51]
> ...



Sorry to quote so much wiki - I'm learning about phosphorus!

Still, to see that bone and guano are also used in the production of phosphorus is also interesting.  Not to mention the occult reference to Lucifer, the fact its crystal structure looks like 6 pyramids, or even a Maltese cross.

There are even grounds to think it can be converted to electricity:
Making electricity from urine



> He said: "The technology converts the urea within urine directly into water, carbon dioxide, nitrogen and more importantly electricity.





> A growing number of scientists have cottoned on to the fact that urine is a source of vital enzymes for medicine, precious minerals like *fast-depleting phosphorus*, and chemical compounds like urea, which are crucial to the manufacture of fertilisers, plastics and cosmetics and can also be used to make electricity.


No!!  Phosphorus is fast-depleting!!  Let's drink more water quick to help restore our reserves!


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## usselo (Oct 12, 2021)

feralimal said:


> Bone ash was the major source of phosphorus until the 1840s. The method started by roasting bones, then employed the use of clay retorts encased in a very hot brick furnace to distill out the highly toxic elemental phosphorus product.


See the somewhat similar star-fort image in post-101298. It's the base of a lime kiln. They were quite tall apparently. Perhaps a bone-roasting kiln looked somewhat similar. Though John Clare's lime kiln at bone-strewn Pickworth seems to have been more ad-hoc. Perhaps you only need complex kilns if you want a choice between roasting for lime *or* for phosphorus.

Just adding your 1840 date to what we've already covered in this thread:

The 1840s: humans now being brought on to their own feet. (That wording tells you I think they had help but that's another topic).
On top of bone-littered fields that were identified by - and written about from - the 1790s.
That 'barren' upland parts of Lincolnshire were made farmable by marling (addition of bone meal). My main source for that is Rev George Oliver but there are other references. This is not controversial history - until you identify the source of the bone-meal.
The Narborough bone mill post. Though there were bone mills all over east England. There was one at Spalding - capital town of the wasteland above Elloi. There's another area of research simply in the number of windmills there used to be and their destruction events).
Just to make things easier to conceptualise:




Your browser is not able to display this video.



_"You... plough their bones into your fields." Source: __Westworld S02 Ep10_

Odd thing to say about androids. Did he confuse Westworld with eastern England?

These events are not just a Lincolnshire, England, thing. How the links to other places work, I don't know. But America's Pilgrim Fathers hung out on the Isle of Axholme, Lincolnshire (fenny, felled trees underground) (Google Maps), (Google Streetview) and in Boston, Lincolnshire (also fenny, felled trees underground) (Google Maps), (Google Streetview). Benjamin Franklin is associated with Francis Dashwood and the book of Common Prayer - and much else. As per recent posts, Dashwood is as much a Lincolnshire, Romney Marsh (Kent), - and even St Petersburg, Russia - phenomenon as he is a West Wycombe phenomenon. And is possibly a partial, limited hangout, patsy or scapegoat. For some much larger mystery.

How did that odd circular geology appear around Elloi? How did St Petersburg become flooded? How did Dogger drown?





Your browser is not able to display this video.



_All the world's a stage. Source: __Westworld S01 Ep06_

Hmm... A management conflict between a Dane and a Brit in Westworld. Danes and Danaans drift in and out of western Europe's destruction stories, from eastern England to Portugal. Probably just another coincidence.



feralimal said:


> 'Taking the piss' was a job we did?!?  It does explain the expression.  And perhaps you have also stumbled on an explanation we have all been wondering about - why Versailles has no toilets.  What a bizarre and interesting diversion that illustrates the point of this thread - that people were used as material resources


Yes, I think we provided supplies of urine. We can be appalled. Or we can appreciate that the minds that designed us, designed us to be so very... productive.



feralimal said:


> He said: "The technology converts the urea within urine directly into water, carbon dioxide, nitrogen and more importantly electricity.


My guess is the 'urine -> electricity' process will require a yeast-bacteria mix, perhaps like a kombucha scoby. Not a high-tech, honeycomb, metal matrix, etc. But that's just a guess based on patterns poking through from the past.

By the way, in _Torrington Diaries_, Byng makes an odd reference to becoming tipsy after drinking tea. It suggests kombucha - a drink barely known in Britain 20 years ago - was available in 18th Century, depopulated, rural Lincolnshire. Byng's comment reminded me of the reversed N's that show up on English church bells and graffiti in Knights Templar ruins.


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## Potato (Oct 12, 2021)

usselo said:


> My guess is the 'urine -> electricity' process will require a yeast-bacteria mix


Researchers at the University of Bath have developed an innovative miniature fuel cell that can generate electricity from urine, creating an affordable, renewable and carbon-neutral way of generating power.

In the near future this device could provide a means of generating much needed electricity to remote areas at very little cost, each device costs just £1-£2. With growing global pressures to reduce reliance on fossil fuels and the associated greenhouse gas emissions, microbial fuel cells could be an exciting alternative.
A microbial fuel cell is a device that *uses natural biological processes of 'electric' bacteria to turn organic matter, such as urine, into electricity*. These fuel cells are efficient and relatively cheap to run, and produce nearly zero waste compared to other methods of electricity generation.

This novel fuel cell developed by the researchers, measures one inch squared in size and uses a carbon catalyst at the cathode which is derived *from glucose and ovalbumin, a protein found in egg white*.

Urine turned into sustainable power source for electronic devices


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## plamski (Oct 15, 2021)

usselo, congratulation on the amazing research you have done. We are definitely a hybrid of some sort. Back in the old SH.org I wrote a piece about the chimp-pig human hybrid.


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## dreamtime (Oct 15, 2021)

plamski said:


> usselo, congratulation on the amazing research you have done. We are definitely a hybrid of some sort. Back in the old SH.org I wrote a piece about the chimp-pig human hybrid.



Great to see you back!


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## plamski (Oct 15, 2021)

dreamtime said:


> Great to see you back!



Hi, dreamtime, thank you for maintaining this forum and for having me back!

I couldn't post a link in the first message, so here it is - SH Archive - Human Origins: Are We Hybrids?


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## usselo (Oct 15, 2021)

Potato said:


> A microbial fuel cell is a device that *uses natural biological processes of 'electric' bacteria to turn organic matter, such as urine, into electricity*. These fuel cells are efficient and relatively cheap to run, and produce nearly zero waste compared to other methods of electricity generation.
> 
> This novel fuel cell developed by the researchers, measures one inch squared in size and uses a carbon catalyst at the cathode which is derived *from glucose and ovalbumin, a protein found in egg white*.
> 
> Urine turned into sustainable power source for electronic devices


Ha ha, great find Potato!

This is what I mean when I say we are materialists but our creators/predecessors were (and probably still are) all-chemists (alchemists). They made useful things by creating lifeforms to process help materials/chemicals into more useful materials/chemicals. Bacteria, yeasts, humans.

In contrast, our usual approach is to force materials/chemicals into becoming more useful by applying energy to them.

It's interesting they were mixing glucose (a carbohydrate, a sugar) and ovalbumin (a protein). In my night-time musings about urine-wax phosphor candles as maser cores, I've wondered if our predecessors were blending 'wax' with something else. Perhaps congealed blood. It seems to me 'wax' is not quite as solid as candle wax, and it wouldn't be so easy to shape into battle-ready cores suitable for chalice masers. Or keep stable through battle-action if being used as the core of a light-sabre. Which is what I think lances may really have been (an idea I got from pro_vladimir and dmitrijan).

When you look at this kind of science, it is worth bearing in mind the Selenadia 'frothy blood' material I linked to much earlier. Those posts were: in this thread: post-102005 and in The Nephilim looked like Clowns thread: post-102333.




_Sparkling red wine with added ions! __Source in English_​
Selenadia's proposition was that our creators ionised human blood as part of transmuting it into something either:

More nutritious, or
More suitable for gene manipulation
I wasn't quite sure which because the machine translation wasn't great. Selenadia also claims - if I understand correctly - that biomaterial was collected in many places. And was also made available in sarcophagi and hollow stone statues perforated with holes. Through these, our creators could suck out the biomaterial when they got the munchies.

Feralimal dug into those Selenadia links this week and found two of his lost original posts (in Russian) at archive.org:

People will prevent the apocalypse: ЛЮДИ предотвратят Апокалипсис. Комментарии : LiveInternet - Российский Сервис Онлайн-Дневников
About the created "primal Edem": Многократно удалявшийся материал с предисловием "Горожанина" о тварном "первоэдеме". Комментарии : LiveInternet - Российский Сервис Онлайн-Дневников
Google translate apparently can't handle them so it's Russian only for the moment. But the images are interesting for anyone who is questioning what churches were originally about.

This idea of us as a lifeform created to do work and produce material resources (IHASFE*MR*) might also explain why our blood is iron (hemaglobin) suspended in a liquid called 'plasma'.

I was asked in a private mail about my comment that people should think about the origin of the word 'Christmas'... I've cleaned up my response and posted it at the bottom of this post in purple. But in short, it's like this: in much earlier posts, (and subsequently), we discussed the word 'mas'; its relationship with English words like 'mess-hall', 'mess-tin', and its relationship with the word 'mass'. 'Mass' as in handing out chewman blood and wafers in religious rituals. All ably sanitised today by referencing the process as a single event called 'The Last Supper'. If you've read Selenadia's linked posts about 'frothing' human blood and understood my evidence for fermentation of human babies, then it becomes reasonable to wonder if 'Yesu' has the same origin as the English word 'yeast'.

It's fascinating to see how babies sleep more easily when swaddled. The modern explanation for that behaviour is not very logical. It makes more sense if you understand it as designed behaviour. Similarly, the word 'Christ', it seems to me, could conceivably be rooted in the idea of something changing its form in a pot or a cocoon. Cocooned, perhaps, by being wrapped in a shroud or bound in cloth. As if a *chrys*alis or a *chrys*alid. Or a mummy.


_Mummies as medicine. __Source_​
More links to the mysterious medicine called mumiyo, or mummia, or shilajit are in post-102005. The mystery being that some researchers claim it is not made from tree resin, or bat droppings or mold scraped from cave-walls but from human corpses.

18th Century antiquarians' accounts of their inspections of England's ruined ecclesiastic buildings often have them paying a lot of attention to 'niches' in the walls of churches, monasteries, temples, etc. Today we would think of these niches as places for statues of saints. But we know that 'saint' = 'san' = 'sen' = blood. As in 'Senlac', East Sussex, which means 'Lake of Blood'. So I wonder if these niches were for cocoons in which chewmans were fermented. Perhaps the ecclesiastical version of the scene in Killer Clowns shown in the clown video clip in this post.

They notice the niches are empty. They attribute this to the destruction of 'saints' during England's 1642-1651 Civil War. However, viewed from an IHASFEMR perspective, their removal might be a result of rising human rage against having their children, family and friends killed and fermented. Or killed and soaked in resin. Or simply killed for storage. That possibility also ties in with the seemingly inexplicable destruction of 10,000 of England's 12,000+ binding posts market crosses.

Although I think market crosses were binding posts for human livestock brought to market, we should remember the principle of 'stacking'... Of creating things to perform multiple functions. And that our creators/predecessors seem to have organised their processes to deliver multiple outcomes. Selenadia has images of socketed stone bases that are very similar to the bases of English market crosses. I think he is either proposing they were mortars for pounding human biomaterial or structures for allowing human biomaterial to ferment under pressure. Absent a decent translation, I'm just not sure.




_Socketed stone. __Source_​
Contrast it with Roysia's Stone from above Royston Cave, Royston, England:



_Roysia Stone, Royston, England. __Source_​
The Roysia Stone and Royston's Cave's history is discussed earlier in this thread.

One theme that seems to be common in the works of our predecessors is this: they thought in terms of 'systems' rather than 'specialisms'. Recognising - and extracting - multiple functions from each structure or material is just one part of systems theory. It stands in contrast to our tendency to create single-purpose structures and materials.



plamski said:


> usselo, congratulation on the amazing research you have done. We are definitely a hybrid of some sort. Back in the old SH.org I wrote a piece about the chimp-pig human hybrid.
> 
> I couldn't post a link in the first message, so here it is - SH Archive - Human Origins: Are We Hybrids?


Cheers plamski - good to see you back.

I haven't said much about chimp-pig human hybrid theory because the case for it is so well-evidenced that people either get it or they don't. Thanks for putting your link in. People will probably need to have absorbed that material before the conjectures in this thread about how chewmans were (are) used has a real hope of making sense.

I've had to leave a lot of material out recently because there's more evidence than I have time to collate. I've been looking at:

1. King Arthur and the possibility his first battle - at the 'mouth of the River Glein' - was just to the north-west of Elloi (South Holland) here: (Google Maps). Exact location is difficult because fenland drainage has moved the River Glen's mouth has moved east. An old district that used to be called 'Aveland' (in its many spellings and many movements around east Lincolnshire) is also close to there. Is Aveland a possibility for Avalon? There's also Arthur's 'Troyt' boar story. That boar acted very similarly to the horse in Lincolnshire's versions of the Byard's Leap stories.

2. Civil Wars in England. The similar locations - and sometimes similar events - between them is quite curious. Are they one era stretched back in time to fill England's history gap?

3. Evidence 'the Romans' in England are an Italian cultural import from the 17th and 18th Century. That import being theatre, drama, plays, puncinello, etc, and costumes that were later (Ie, in the early 19th Century perhaps) backdated to become the 2,000 year old Roman invasion we know of today. I suspect this was done because a human history was needed and there seems to have been only one main chewman story before the mid-17th Century. Becoming lunch.

4. Evidence that monks, friars, abbots etc, are an invention from the 17th-18th Century. Invented to explain structures and 'professions' (prey-ists, abbot-oirs, bloodletters, bakers of blood-infused bread), as well as strange stories of people being cut up and processed, luvved up by strange-looking creatures, and transformed into everything from sandwiches to beams of light.





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_Lord Asriel 'cuts' Roger. Source: __His Dark Materials_. _Warning: It is quite loud._

All this takes a lot of time to read up, collate, check, and write. So in the meantime, what do folks think about the similarities - or lack of them - between these reports strange sounds in the sky:


_Strange Sounds, Jan 21, 2012, Banff, Alberta, Canada_


_Strange Sounds, Jan 23, 2012, Banff, Alberta, Canada


Strange Sounds, Aug 11, 2011, Kiev, Ukraine_​





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_Ventilator. Source: __Breaking Bad S03 Ep11_





your_browser_is_not_able_to_play_this_audio



_Again. But just the sound, amplified. Source: __Breaking Bad S03 Ep11_

I think they are very similar. And, as I mentioned above, we should pay attention to set design. 

Copy of the cleaned up PM referenced above:
Fermented babies, fermented humans and frothy blood:

I came to the notion of babies being ferment-preserved without knowing about Selenadia's work above. I suspected it because of the conventionally-inexplicable characteristics of archaeological baby-in-a-pot remains, because of kistvaens and their often having a bedrock or stone floor, and the amount of liquid-related stone furniture in churches, monasteries, etc. Such as fonts, piscinas, stone funnels to cavities below, the Rothwell floor-slot. I wasn't even aware that sarcophagi often have small holes in them (per Selenadia's mostly Asia-based finds. Again: post-102005 and post-102333).

My point is that two people independently arrived at a very unconventional - but similar - understanding by asking themselves what could explain the characteristics of the evidence.

Also, the alleged pagan and church-promoted promiscuity/fertility festivals called Easter look likely to have produced lots of high-fat human protein nine months later - just when they were most needed. Picture young men and women dancing around maypoles holding on to coloured ribbons that weave tighter and tighter as they dance around the pole. It doesn't take much imagination to figure out what hormonal impulses backed by social pressure might produce for the next 'dance'.

The reference to kombucha scobies... I was thinking something like this:
​1. We are a materials-based culture. We routinely manipulate chemicals well.​​2. There used to be a culture - which I think may not have been human - that manipulated yeasts, bacteria, enzymes (and probably viruses and phages if they exist), and DNA, to create things they needed. They had much more of an understanding of proteins, bacteria and microbial life as production tools. Much more than we do.​
'Frothy blood' and 'bloodletting' practices are quite difficult to research. In as much as you can find anything written, it tends to point to 'the Jews, all of them' which I think is like HMRC claiming lorry drivers are drug smugglers: they are a pre-positioned scapegoat. That there may be one or two criminally-minded ones among them may help the scapegoating but it doesn't identify the real culprit or close the investigation.

Putting these ideas into a chronology:

1. Some entities we don't know much about manufactured us. By manipulating existing DNA. Though they may well have created the DNA in the first place. If they created chimpanzees, pigs, etc.​​2. I think they manufactured us for the same reasons we engineer and breed commercial yeast. It is useful to us and we can use its various outputs to produce consumables. ​​3. At some point sentience was added to us. Possibly at creation-time. But my guess is that sentience was not added at our beginning. Perhaps about 1,000 years ago. And perhaps more recently than that. Could be wrong. Wouldn't stake my yeasty little life on it.​​4. At some point, our creators 'went', or suffered a setback of some sort that has left them largely busy elsewhere. Maybe the domain we live in was only ever an R&R stop for quarrymen. Or a Westworld for them. Maybe they went back to work.​​5. I tend to think they are still around and still watching us with interest. Perhaps they see us as potentially 'handy', as potentially a good thing to have created. Provided we can stop relying on our 'faith circuits', our 'loyalty loop', and instead use more thoroughly the observation and reasoning potential our DNA gifted us with.​​6. The 'freeing' event seems to come at 1615 to 1650 ish. Definitely a catastrophe from our perspective, possibly with associated war. But from their perspective, it may have been an end-of-shift clean-up, or an end-of-season clean-up. Or a Westworld-scale set-change. Perhaps it occurred because sentience had been added and our vivarium was being made over to 'give brains a chance'.​​7. I think our notion of 'The Romans' is a blend of all sorts of things. I occasionally trip over threads of evidence that Britain's Roman roads are relatively recent. Perhaps constructed soon after that 17th Century catastrophe. Then attributed to 'the Romans' by 19th Century narrative-writers as part of establishing a longer history for human ingenuity than really exists. It was the absolute mess that is the story of east England's fenland drainage that pushed me through another conspiratorial veil into questioning this relatively recent history. It is very difficult to integrate into orthodox history the contradictions and sly comments I find in old antiquarians' descriptions of this area. It is more rational to integrate them into an era of cover-up that was in swing - as far as I can tell - by the early 18th Century and continued into the mid-19th Century. And on into today of course.​
The propositions I'm looking at for item 7. are:

7.1. Monks, friars, abbots didn't exist as we understand them. They are made up to explain entities, their structures, our memories of - and our stories about - those entities, their structures, and our memories/stories of activities in those structures.​​7.2. Romans didn't exist. They were made up to explain the global scope of old structures. And to explain new structures like straight roads. (Fake age, basically. The same technique that uses fake family trees to explain ownership of 'expropriated' land.) And they were perhaps made up to explain the removal of some construction techniques and organisational processes from human view. These vanished techniques and processes were attributed to a selection of 'colonialists' whose disappearance could be used to 'explain' mysteries, inconsistencies and 'unknowns' in our story. BTW: the 'Romans = Normans = fabrication' narrative is still being developed in the 'Betrayal of Albion' thread.​​7.3. I suspect the entities that created us also guided the creation of these last two narratives (religion and ancient empires like the Romans) as part of managing us. Something wasn't going to plan by around 1800 so another large-scale narrative change began to take place. ​
The current Covid narrative could be a large-scale narrative change occurring in our own time. Certainly something of this nature was amply flagged beforehand.

Perhaps the changes now underway are occurring because, for 40 years, chewmans kept voting for variants of their own economic destruction. Or their neighbour's economic destruction. In Britain, that means voting for the Tory, Lib-Dem, and Labour variants of 'neo-liberalism'. Or voting at all, in my opinion. The damage it has caused is so extensive that perhaps TPTB stepped in to correct things before their 'sentient chewman experiment' completely fell apart. There are several clues to this being a possibility. 

Then again, perhaps the changes currently in progress were always part of a planned narrative about chewman history and their time simply became due.





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_Tory, Labour and (Neo-)Liberal Democrat UK system fail. Source: __Can't Get You Out of my Head_

Same in the US.




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_Republican and (Neo-)Liberal US system fail. Source: __Can't Get You Out of my Head_

If you've noticed the thin tendrils of systems theory sneaking into explanations of current economic failings, you could imagine that we are in a classroom attending an experiential session called 'Systems Thinking 101'.

If we are (I hope so!), what I can't work out is whether it was a planned class or an emergency session.

_Edit: replaced the ventilator video. Hopefully the audio renders for all browsers now. Added link to lances as light sabres._


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## feralimal (Oct 18, 2021)

This is a video that struck me as relevant for this thread.  Its your more typical conspiracy round-up of where we might have come from, via Mark Passio.  It talks about aliens, Anunnaki and whatever, but its pretty coherent.  Still I found that it provide a pretty decent background to what we are discussing here:

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiCnrn6LkUo_


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## feralimal (Oct 20, 2021)

Another interesting link, more current, quite gruesome:
Heipel: Top 10 Sickening Details About How Federal Employees Trafficked Baby Body Parts

“fresh, never frozen”
"wonderful tissues"


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## alltheleaves (Oct 22, 2021)

_"That mollusk DNA is used to accelerate the creation of artificial stem cells inside the human body."_

Reading this analysis of the "waxxine" as being at least partially offworld designed and implemented...

Transcripts/new-analysis-vaccines-samples-analyzed-aneeka-of-temmer-shares-the-findings
Swaruu

... And when I saw mollusk...that synced to this discussion..


usselo said:


> Ha ha, great find Potato!
> 
> This is what I mean when I say we are materialists but our creators/predecessors were (and probably still are) all-chemists (alchemists). They made useful things by creating lifeforms to process help materials/chemicals into more useful materials/chemicals. Bacteria, yeasts, humans.
> 
> ...



"TPTB stepped in to correct things"

Sadly, the blood drinkers don't appear to go on permanent vacation.

They're clearly making a move on blood atm.


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## usselo (Oct 25, 2021)

feralimal said:


> This is a video that struck me as relevant for this thread.  Its your more typical conspiracy round-up of where we might have come from, via Mark Passio.  It talks about aliens, Anunnaki and whatever, but its pretty coherent.  Still I found that it provide a pretty decent background to what we are discussing here:
> 
> _View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiCnrn6LkUo_



It's worth watching for the segment on our differences to primates alone. That segment starts at 1 hour, 14 mins, 13 seconds in (timed link): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiCnrn6LkUo&t=4449s. Those differences can be added to the list in post-104477.

If I was budgeting resources for educational animations, I'd commission a 2D video showing the:

Physical differences between humans and primates
Physical similarities between humans and pigs
Physical similarities between humans and seals
Oddities of human biology
Passio may be right that it was aliens that hybridised, or created, the original humans. But I don't think we can rule out that it was done by entities that are native to this domain.

feralimal said:


> Another interesting link, more current, quite gruesome:
> [Heipel: Top 10 Sickening Details About How Federal Employees Trafficked Baby Body Parts](https://americarenewing.com/heipel-top-10-sickening-details-about-how-federal-employees-trafficked-baby-body-parts/)
> 
> “fresh, never frozen”
> "wonderful tissues"



alltheleaves said:


> Sadly, the blood drinkers don't appear to go on permanent vacation.



Yep, chewman biomaterial collection seems to be going on still. I've read Russian blogger speculation that blood transfusion service inputs were far, far greater than their outputs. That the numbers don't add up. That much of the collected blood must have been supplied to another market.

I think you understood me correctly when I said:


> TPTB stepped in to correct things



but in case anyone didn't: I didn't mean "The Powers That Be took pity on us". I meant TPTB may currently be changing our politico-economic systems (through the medium of Covid) because the current systems are at risk of producing low-quality product or the wrong mix of product.

For example, Boomer peak-death has arrived and, with it - theoretically - a long-planned chewman biomaterial product bonanza.

But perhaps the product mix is poorly matched to customer demand. Perhaps it's too much mutton; too little lamb. Too much fat, too little protein. Too much osteoporotic bone instead of supple, well-exercised bone. Or too much tumour-riddled, drug-contaminated biomaterial.

More likely though, the current output was planned and the changes being ushered in are about matching future production to future demand.

Obviously, without being able to see the accounts or interview our managers, all we can do is model out the possible scenarios they might be adjusting for. I touched on this possibility at the end of post-99448.

The one trend I think can be seen is a desire for the chewman product mix to show more cognitive skills around abstraction and abstract problem-solving. That would explain the drive for programmers and the 'vaccidental' increase in Asbergers and autism.

So, when I talk about 'correcting things', I meant in the sense of fitting product to market.

Now, catching up on some loose ends...

In post-103890, John Nada pointed out the ritual serving of first-born - presumably babies - on silver platters. Citezenship added more of the same in post-103896. This in addition to Sapiot's mention of married couples dreading the church bells ringing as they left church.


_Puss-in-Boots illustration reflects the dining table aesthetics of its era. __Source_​
It's not just the three cherubs; it's the cow's head and hooves in the tureen behind the cherubs, and the mutton and possibly pig in the basket behind the ogre.  How to explain these aesthetics?

I caught part of a 'Trace your Ancestors' TV programme a couple of weeks ago. In a segment about a 19th Century butcher, the presenter explained that 19th Century 'people' preferred their meat to show its origins. To look like the animal it came from. The programme showed how this usually meant presenting smaller animals on the table with limbs and heads intact, often tastefully arranged to display the face.

As for *what* they ate, John Byng - mentioned in these posts - had a big appetite for meat, veg and booze. A typical supper:


> My supper consisted of a fine roasted fowl, cold ham, pickled salmon, artichoke and tarts.



His receipts and his comments about his meals don't - unfortunately - say 'cherub'. They do show he usually ate two or three types of meat at each sitting. And a lot of it. Typically a trout with mutton chops and peas, or a roast chicken or waterfowl plus two fish, sometimes followed by a plate of cold meat.

He rarely eats a single chop; instead he eats chops in the plural. Usually mutton in eastern England. Where he mentions eating veg, it's usually peas. Very rarely does he eat potatoes or carbohydrates in his main course.

He's on the paleo-diet but with added drinking. The Puss-in-Boots image above captures the drinking well. Typically wine or beers followed by half a pint of brandy. From _The Torrington Diaries (Selection of Tours_ edition_), p352_, at the White Hart in Spalding, Elloi, (Google Maps), (Google Streetview):


> My pint of wine at supper was the meanest measure I ever saw; now I can carry a good _pint_, at least of port wine.



If the port was at today's 19-20% alcohol level, that's nine units. The guy drank like Futurama's Bender.


_John Byng Bender. Source _​
Up next: I've got a lot of disparate pieces of evidence left over that should have been used earlier in this thread. For example, it turns out that Buxton Crescent - source of the mysterious 12-year refurbishment delay - housed an Assembly Rooms. Which tells us there were likely embarrassing tunnels beneath it, not just '23 springs'.

Also, reading Byng's accounts of derelict halls across England, and their woodlands and deer parks being dismantled, it becomes clear that before these places were ruined in - seemingly - the 17th and early 18th Century, England's landscape looked like a vast suburb. That would make more sense of finds like these from post-103255:



_64 moated houses and halls on a random 20km high line_​
These only mark moated (and previously moated) sites, not the many non-moated sites. According to Byng, in his travels between 1781 and 1794, many of these ruins were being torn down and their key parts shipped to London. There they were being rebuilt into London's grand residential architecture. Source coordinates attached.

However, rather than dump bits and pieces, I got good feedback there's interest in churches playing with phosphorus so I'll dump more evidence that some church features seem to have been designed around manipulating light. Then move on to IHASF *E* MR - humans as entertainment.

With regard to that, it would really help if I someone could help me track down a particular episode of Michael Portillo's Great Railway Journeys. In that episode, the curator of the site he is visiting hands him a book because she prefers not to read out the passage in it. Portillo then reads out the passage, which describes someone - a vizier or pasha perhaps - teasing children at the top of a tower. He holds out a golden ball toward them and when they reach for it, pushes them off the ledge. Portillo reads on that he did this until some 50 children were lying dead at the bottom of the tower. I'd very much like to identify that episode, if anyone can help with that.

Thanks!


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## usselo (Oct 26, 2021)

What features of churches were 18th and 19th Century antiquarians and archaeologists most interested in?

They seemed keen to document some aspects of church architecture in great detail. In boring detail. But - oddly - they payed almost no attention to many other architecturally important aspects.

They were very focused on:

Church layout (the plan). Understandably.
Mouldings. Less understandably.
How arches 'spring' from the columns that support them.
Chancel arches.
Fonts.
Internal and external openings, known as squints, hagioscopes, and lychnoscopes.
This 1850 note about St Mary's Gillingham, Norfolk from the Archaeological Journal archive, is very representative of extreme interest in item 2: mouldings. So is this description of a Francisan 'friery' (their spelling, not mine) near Reading. (Both pdfs are also attached to this post.)

I expect most people know what mouldings are but are less aware of squints, hagioscopes and lychnoscopes. So let's have a look at them and come back to mouldings.

_Squint at St Nicholas' church, Walcot, Lincolnshire. __Source_​
For more examples of squints, hagioscopes, and lychnoscopes, look at the file 003_299_308.pdf attached to post-104477. You don't have to read it - just look at the images. Look at the plan of St Mary's, Bridgewater (p307 of the original journal's pagination). And the plan of St. Peter's, Charlton, Wiltshire (p308 of the original pagination). From that document:


> the Squints would appear to have been originally carried across an external space.



There's a lot of this obsession attention to certain features in old works on churches. Perhaps antiquarians were on the Asperger's continuum.

But if they were, we would expect to see similar obsessive recording of details in the construction of the openings in church towers. In the case St Mary's at Gillingham above, we'd perhaps see details of the church tower's crenalations and of the little room-like affair at the top of the tower.

In surveys of churches generally, we'd seen important things like details of rainwater-management where roof meets wall, and, of course, how gargoyles are cantilevered out from walls. And perhaps we'd even see details of church footings, where church meets ground. An important aspect of any building. You do find a little of this. But, overwhelmingly, antiquarians were focused on the ground floor walls and on specific details of the external and internal openings in the ground floor walls.

Why?

I doubt the orthodox proposition that squints and hagioscopes were added to fix a poor view of the altar from parts of the church. Especially as some of these reveals were originally filled with tracery (which has often been cut out, we note). I also doubt these features were installed to improve the view for lepers standing in the porch or the churchyard.

To me, some of these features look more like waveguides and, in a few cases, conduits and funnels suitable for fluid management.

Since about 2010, Russian bloggers have pointed out the similarities between magnetrons (microwave generators) and church features like rose windows. In Кто есть Вольт? или Электрическое оборудование прошлого. Часть 2. (original Russian) (poor English auto-translation), you see alternative explanations being provided for some of the church details that obsessed English antiquarians.

For example:

_Artistry? Cargo cult imitation? Or misunderstood electrical component? __Source_​
Other articles in that series are listed at Итог на 12.12.2014 (Russian original) (English translation).

This article - Electrical Equipment of the Past - Part 6 (original Russian) (English translation) suggests an alternative origin for military gold braid. The authors' propose gold braid was the mobile part of a signalling system. That gold braid is a cargo cult remnant of electrical cable. That church bells and early bronze cannons were part of the base station equipment in those systems. Towards the bottom of that article are a couple of Dmitrijan's hand-drawn diagrams. Understanding them isn't critical to understanding this post. You can skip straight over them to the text below. But if you do want to read them, try these translations:


_Original _


_English translation_


_Original simpler version of core system_


_English translation_​
The core structure in those diagrams is a church bell mounted upside down on top of a vertically-positioned cannon. It's a variant of the second image down in post-101535.

The diagrams illustrate warning and alarm systems that use high voltage, low current electricity. What we would call static electricity. They use the same principle as pre-WWI spark-gap transmitters. The Russian bloggers who propose this believe atmospheric humidity was much lower in the past. That our current humidity level is too high, too conductive for high voltage electricity to be used in this way now.

Note the coil wrapped around the cannon and bell assembly in the diagrams.

As noted in post-104477, the similarities between churches and klystrons (a high-power microwave generator and microwave amplifier) is also curious. The east-west orientation in a magnetic field... The general layout of central nave and chancel with chapels at the ends and/or sides... And the internal elements:


_Two-cavity klystron. __Source_


_Multi-cavity klystron. __Source_​
I appreciate this post is more technical than usual. Try to understand just these three things:

1. The two major components of radio-frequency generators and amplifiers ('transmitters') are coils and capacitors. They are connected together to manage and massage the flow of electric and magnetic fields through successive stages of inductance and capacitance. I won't get any more complex than that.

2. Microwave engineering uses the same principle - but at much higher frequencies. So it uses different components. Instead of coiled-wire inductors, it uses conductive plates. Instead of capacitors, it uses enclosed spaces.

3. Light engineering - lasers - is whole different ball of wax.

In my limited understanding of microwave engineering, two inputs are required. An energy source and an input signal. The electrons liberated by the coil (shown on the left in the above two images) provide the energy that a klystron uses to amplify the input signal (fed in from bottom left in the above two images). In the 20th Century, we used heat to liberate electrons in the filaments of electronic valves.

Perhaps phosporus was used to create heat. Perhaps. But dmitrijan and pro_vladimir's ideas about coil-wrapped cannons suggest our predecessors were able to produce microwave radio frequencies without burning phosphorus.

If we are looking at light amplifiers rather than microwave amplifiers - that is, at lasers rather than masers - then perhaps phosphorus supplied light for amplication rather than electrons.

I also wonder if the seemingly inexplicable antiquarian interest in the details of mouldings suggests the authors knew mouldings were critically important. That they played a role beyond decoration. But I don't buy into the proposition that the mouldings around church doors and windows were stone batteries or cables. Or even cargo cult remnants of them. I think another explanation should be explored.

In theory, magnetrons only function if their interior is a vacuum. And the same applies to their high power klystron cousins.

As laymen, we tend to think lasers also need an internal vacuum, although that turns out to be not quite true. But let's assume that magnetrons and klystrons always need a vacuum.

So then, when we notice the intricate internal mouldings around church doors and windows and around internal church openings (chancel arches, for example)...

And the stone tracery that infills church windows, as well as squints and hagioscopes, presumably to provide additional support to whatever was inserted between or across them...

And when we notice the seemingly extreme care early antiquarians put into recording the details of these features...

And when we remember that churches contain large organs, which are perhaps melodious, cargo cult copies of earlier devices that noisily pumped huge volumes of air out of churches...

Then we can wonder...

...could we be looking at evidence that 18th and 19th Century humans were trying to figure out how our predecessors created and maintained vacuum seals around openings in these large stone structures?

_Profiles of decorative features? Or seatings for vacuum seals? Source: attached pdfs_​
And anyway, why do we think churches are large?





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_Other people's tools and toys. Source: __Battlefield Earth, 2000_

The hard part isn't understanding the engineering. It's accepting that we might be living amid the remains of other entities' toys and tools.

This might explain why John Byng's diaries show he was keen to buy scraps of blue and red glass from old churches. He would seek out church restorers to buy their scrap and recorded the prices he paid for it.

It might even explain why there is so little Piranesi-esque imagery of England's derelict 18th Century English churches. Even though we know some images were being drawn. From a review of _Rutland Churches before Restoration by Gillian Wilkinson_:




_Rutland Churches before Restoration. Review. __Source_​
By the way, 'Camdenian' = William Camden = Cambridge Camden Society = Ecclesiological Society = cover it up with a cargo cult. Just my opinion.

From  Cambridge Camden Society:


> Its first activities were the collection of information about churches across the island. The amount of knowledge obtained from travellers' visits to and careful measurements of long-forgotten parish churches was immense...
> 
> Thus the Cambridge Camden Society amassed an enormous amount of information about medieval parish churches and came to be seen as an authority on religious architecture.  Nor was this attribution misplaced. The society's vigour in examining and defining every detail of the medieval church was enormous, so much so that its magazine, the _Ecclesiologist_ published both heated debates about the usage of small slits dubbed "lychnoscopes" that were observed in some churches and an invention called an "Orientator" that allowed one to determine whether or not a church faced exactly East. The motive for these extraordinarily scrutinising investigations was the society's unshakeable belief that man could regain the piety of the Middle Ages by carefully reconstructing them.


Not to mention its microwave technologies.

Their function as seatings for gaskets would explain why unrestored church (and cathedral) door and window mouldings are sometimes glossy with a dark brown patina. As if they had been coated with sealant grease. As if they had been greased and polished smooth by use or by maintenance.




_Restored gasket seating. __Source_​
From Gasket - Wikipedia:


> Gaskets allow for "less-than-perfect" mating surfaces on machine parts where they can fill irregularities.
> 
> It is usually desirable that the gasket be made from a material that is to some degree yielding such that it is able to deform and tightly fill the space it is designed for, including any slight irregularities. Some types of gaskets require a sealant be applied directly to the gasket surface to function properly.
> 
> Some (piping) gaskets are made entirely of metal and rely on a seating surface to accomplish the seal;




_Copper flange gaskets for ultra-high vacuum systems. __Source_​
Again, reading John Byng, we see he and his boss Colonel Bertie were very interested in finding church 'brasses'. Which were brass, Jim, but not as we know it. From Church memorials | National Churches Trust:


> brasses were actually made from latten - an alloy of copper and zinc.



And from The care and conservation of brasses:


> Brass is a relatively soft metal and is easily scratched, bent and dented.
> 
> (a) In this [floor] position they can be exposed to heavy tread. This will cause flexing of the metal if there are any hollows below the brass plate. This can be the case if the bituminous mastic bedding has deteriorated...
> 
> (b) Some brasses appear to have spread due to pressure of passing feet.



Being relatively soft, flexing, and spreading into hollows are useful characteristics. For a gasket.

The ornate zig-zags around so many church doors could just possibly be registration lugs to help hold vertical-fit gaskets in place during installation and removal.

But I'm not a microwave engineer and you may not be on my wavelength.





Your browser is not able to display this video.



_It doesn't look like anything to me. Source: __Westworld S01, Ep01_


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## usselo (Oct 28, 2021)

More images that possibly show evidence of giants working alongside chewmans in the past. Blogger vel124 zoomed in on Leonardo da Vinci's _Cannon Foundry_ to show that the entities lending their weight to the levers (on the right in the image below) are taller than their fellow slaves workers dealing with the wheel and axle at the bottom of the image.


_Giants working with humants. __Source_​
Leonardo da Vinci's _Cannon Foundry_ is also mentioned in post-104122 for its helpful insight into the Health & Safety issues that might have justified Product Management's decision to create humants.

And a couple more doors...


_9ft side door in town centre, Lincoln, UK (Google Maps), (Google Streetview)_


_8ft side door in Market Deeping, UK (__Google Maps__), (__Google Streetview__)_​


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## trismegistus (Oct 29, 2021)

Couldn’t help but think of this thread when I saw this


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## usselo (Oct 29, 2021)

Following on from post-104000, on the mysteries of England's largest bay, the Wash...

Some of the Electric Universe people wonder if a plasma event re-shaped southern England from its south coast to the Wash 200 miles further north. They focused on Hunstanton, a depressing seaside resort on the Wash's Norfolk coast.


_The Wash. __Map source_​
Everything's Electric posted images of Hunstanton's mysterious 'beach balls':



_Hunstanton beach balls fetchingly pictured against a red and white background. __Image source_


_


Between balls, straight lines run perpendicular to the cliff... Image source_





_Or, if you swing the other way, in straight lines perpendicular to the seashore. __Image source_




_Cut at 90 degrees by yet more straight lines so they look like blocks of geological fudge. __Image source_


_Lines parallel to the coast are less obvious because they tend to be more eroded, wider. Source: Google Maps


They're easier to see from above. Cliff-face on the right. Source: Google Maps



As are the occasional, regularly-spaced, 45 degree diagonal lines. Source: Google Maps_​
Apparently, nature doesn't waste much time being chaotic.

And, apparently, geologists don't waste much time debating how Hunstanton's odd geology came about. But they do debate what Hunstanton's geology actually is. The linked paper, for example, discusses the debate about how to classify the rocks in Hunstanton's cliffs... Especially the iron-rich red layer.

Think electric, says Everything's Electric. From: https://www.everythingselectric.com/hunstanton-beach-balls-mystery/:


> Were Hunstantons clifs, cliff layers, fossils, rock lines and the East Anglian coprolites all created by a large electrical discharge event between Portland in the south to the Wash where Hunstanton is located (near Norwich)?



Everything's Electric's page has more images and links to other possibly electrically-created geology around the world. Including:

Curio Bay and Catlins formation, New Zealand
St Paul’s Island, Malta, and its Quartz Island
Tumbrell Point, Malta
Dahlet Qorrot Bay and coastline, Gozo,
Take a look!

Alternatively, take a look at Malham Cove, Yorkshire, UK (Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images).

The limestone 'pavement' above Malham Cove is also square-cut and also has occasional diagonal lines:

_Malham Cove 'pavement'. Source: Google Maps_


_Though this image shows them better. __Image source_​
Malham Cove's pavement is something like 600m (2,000 ft) above sea level. Its fissures are narrow because they are only eroded by rain. Unlike Hunstanton beach's 'bubbles', whose fissures are scoured four times a day (think about it) by the Wash's 5.5m (18 ft) sand-loaded tides.

But, in each of these locations, what got the cuts started?

One option, not apparently considered for either place, is quarrying.

Let's take another look at the Al Naslaa split rock in Saudi Arabia. From post-104477:



_How would that cut look if the North Sea scoured it four times a day? __Source_​
And if whatever cut it then moved around to make another cut or two at 90 degrees to the first:



_Al Naslaa rock smooth face, Saudi Arabia. Source_​
It's as if a trainee driver had practiced coordinating a 90 degree move of both their quarry-cutting machine's position and fine adjustment of the position of its circular-saw blade. The nearest of the second two cuts stops at the split that runs through the rock. In other words, the depth of the cut was controlled. These are manoeuvres you would need to be good at if you were carving bedrock into columns ready to be levered out of a quarry face.

At Malham Cove, for example.

Or Hunstanton.

A bit like this:


But let's not jump to conclusions. The quarry-giants may not have had access to modern, high-tech Hyundai saws. They may have used old-fashioned, piss-powered light-sabres.

That would align us a little closer to the Everything's Electric people. With many tactical plasma events instead of one big plasma event.

Early training in how to use precision cutting tools could explain the progressive removal of limbs found in some skeletons at nearby Knobb's Farm (Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images).




_My first (slow) kill. __Source_​
Quarrying might also explain the approx 20 mile gap in the iron-rich red rock which - theoretically - once ran from Hunstanton to the iron-rich 'Spilsby sandstones' 35 miles north-west in Lincolnshire's southern Wolds (see map on page 4 of the pdf. The dark green rocks...). You can also see the gap in the three green-shaded formations in this map:



_Eastern England: underlying bedrock. Source: __British Geological Survey_​
It's hard to tell if they were quarried away because - as so often happens with neighbouring Lincolnshire - we learn in _Some Notes on the North Norfolk Coast from Hunstanton to Brancaster_, J. A Steers, 1934, that:


> Unfortunately too this piece of shoreline is, for the most part, badly documented.



What there is a lot of documentation for is the alleged creation of Hunstanton by Hamon le Strange of the once-moated Old Hunstanton Hall. Which turns out to have seemingly unnecessary tunnel running from near its local church to, presumably the hall itself. But you can possibly connect the dots if you remember that 'Jamon' (with the 'J' pronounced as 'H') is Spanish for 'ham'. And that 'extranjero' is Spanish for 'foreign'. In fact the founding story of Hunstanton - and its architecture - is hammy. But that's a different kettle of fish.


trismegistus said:


> Couldn’t help but think of this thread when I saw this
> 
> View attachment 13402​


Lol! Great find. I wonder who pointed that out to David Szymanski. That these ideas are emerging does make me wonder if our creators - or their proxies - are trying to wake us up.

The built-in nature of this kind of fear reminded me of the interesting story about Malham Cove told by interviewee 'Shannon' in Brothers of the Serpent podcast episode 208. In this BotS episode about Yorkshire legends (from which I blagged the Malham Cove pavement image above), she recounts an unexpected memory that surfaced while undergoing trauma treatment following a bad car crash.  Her story - and your David Szymanski quote - leave me wondering if perhaps our junk DNA carries important, survival-related memories from our predecessors.

Here's the audio clip:




your_browser_is_not_able_to_play_this_audio



_Source: __Brothers of the Serpent podcast, Ep 208_


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## David Glenney (Oct 30, 2021)

Those Hunstanton Beach Balls look like wooden coals from a fire, especially in the 3rd and 4th pictures.


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## usselo (Oct 30, 2021)

David Glenney said:


> Those Hunstanton Beach Balls look like wooden coals from a fire, especially in the 3rd and 4th pictures.


Yes, like charcoal briquettes. Probably more so than blocks of fudge.

But I wasn't going to let the 'geological fudge' gag slip by unused.


----------



## usselo (Nov 4, 2021)

feralimal said:


> What a bizarre and interesting diversion that illustrates the point of this thread - that people were used as material resources.  Might it also be the power source of all that ancient tech - not resonance, or magnetism or some such - no.  Was ancient tech 'wax'-powered?
> 
> Also interesting for the official origin story: Taking the piss - Wikipedia
> 
> ...



You may be on to something with your phosphorus equals Lucifer suggestion... I can see a couple of ways Lucifer - Bringer of Light - would be associated with danger if humans were used to distilling urine into white phosphorus at home.

In those times, careful handling of phosphorus would have to be taught. Passed on from generation to generation and also taught to chewmans newly imported into areas where phosphorus technology was being used (in the Roman 'shifting populations' model epitomised by Half Life 2, for example). In that scenario, the 'evil' Lucifer would be our cargo cult remnant of the careful handling rules that accompany working with phosphorus:

Keep Lucifer from corrupting you (phosphorus deforms your bones)
Lucifer lives in the dark away from sunlight
Cleanse Lucifer from yourself with water. 'Baptise' yourself to be free of Lucifer. Old churches often have little basins called 'piscinas' near the altar and sometimes immediately inside and/or outside of the main door.

_Piscina, St Peters, Old Edlinton, Doncaster, Yorkshire. __Source_​The simple visuals in that religious rule-set remind me how we seem designed to interpret simple black-and-white contrast patterns as a sign of unquestionable authority. Wearers of black suits and white shirts, black cassocks and white 'dog' collars, through to black and white police checks.

Lucifer as phosphorus would explain why we sometimes see Lucifer - in his various aliases - oddly associated with various churches, when you would think he, she or it would want to stay clear of churches.

We could also speculate that Lucifer, and his shining, Celtic god equivalent - Lugh of the Shining Face, Lugh Lamh-Fada of the Long Hand, Lugh of the Long Arm - might even have been co-opted into becoming St Hugh, patron saint of what seems to be the Devil's own church: Lincoln Cathedral.

Even the surviving mythology around Lugh of the Shining Face is quite revealing. From Mananaun wrapping him in a cloak before travelling to Lugh's rising in the west, as bright as the sun. From Ancient Pages: Lugh – Mighty God Of Light, Sun And Crafts In Celtic Beliefs:


> Lugh was a beautiful fair-haired god with a shining face. He was the owner of a spear, a formidable weapon, never missing its goal. It was an "extension of his arm" and thus, he became known as Lugh “of the Long Arms”.



Lugh is also associated with the shape-shifting god Balor, about whom Patrick McCafferty and Mike Baillie wrote, in _The Celtic Gods_, p60:


> Some of his followers were so ugly and rough they were frightful to look at, and some of them had only one hand and one foot.



Only one hand? Only one foot?

From All That's Interesting: Inside ‘Phossy Jaw':


> Phossy jaw was also referred to as “Matchmaker’s leprosy,”



Because phossy jaw was an industrial injury common among matchstick girls:

_Early symptoms in matchstick girls. __Source_


_Phossy jaw. __Source_​
From Strange Remains: The Horrific Disease that Causes Jawbones to Glow in the Dark and Rot Away:


> Eventually the decaying tissue rots away causing a foul odor. Amputation used to be the only treatment.



And:


> ...the affected bones glow in the dark.



How might that look with the lights out?

_Phosphorus glow by night. Source: own photograph_​
Amazing who shows up in these phossy jaw stories. London theosophist Annie Besant campaigned for matchstick girls' rights. Her boss, theosophist Madame Blavatsky, also said Lucifer is definitely not Satan:


> The original Hebrew text uses the word הֵילֵל which literally means “bright star” or “shining one,”



Even the Webbs and HG Wells Fabians got involved.

OK, glow-in-the-dark industrial injuries, check. Theosophists and Fabian Society involved, check. Got it - there's a conspiracy. But where does the Church fit in?

Answer: halos:


_Industrial injuries in the Christian tradition. __Source_


_Industrial injuries in the Persian tradition. __Source_




_And in the Lincoln Cathedral tradition. __Source_​Makes me wonder if we can, at last, unravel the goblet symbolism in that image. Phosphorus collection?

Anyway, back to _The Celtic Gods_:


> As [Balor] was passing a forbidden house, he heard magicians chanting as they worked up a new spell of death. Balor looked in at the window of the forbidden house and was blinded by the plume of poisonous smoke from the spell that went straight into his face.



The military uses phosphorus for smoke screens. Though I think these days the military prefers red phosphorus for smokescreens because it's way safer than the white phosphorus chewmans urinate. From White Phosphorus: Systemic Agent:


> White phosphorus fumes cause severe irritation and the sensation of a foreign body in the eye. This leads to excessive tear production (lacrimation), spasmodic blinking (blepharospasm), and increased sensitivity to light (photophobia).
> 
> White phosphorus particles are caustic and seriously damaging when in contact with tissues. They cause damage to the cornea. Examples include perforation, inflammation of the interior of the eyeball (endophthalmitis), and abnormal turning out of the eyelid (ectropion).



But a 'forbidden house' where magicians chanted death spells and smoke came out?


_White smoke emerges from the Vatican's Sistine Chapel chimney. __Source_​
As for the chanted death spells:

'Chanted' equals chancels, hymns, plainsong, etc, etc
'Death' equals, well, the video clip in "chimpigs are a cheap source of protein":

_Exaltation of the fabricant. Source: __Cloud Atlas, 2012_​
Back to _The Celtic Gods_:


> The Druids told him that his eye now had the power to kill, and if he opened his eye to look at anyone, that person would die - hence his name. Normally his eye was kept shut to protect his own people. However, against enemies the eye was opened and
> 
> _could slay like a thunderbolt those on whom he looked in anger... [later as he got older]... the vast eyelid drooped over the death-dealing eye, and had to be lifted up by his men with ropes and pulleys when the time came to turn it on his foes_.​



Hmmm, we've seen it before but let's look again and click on the link in the caption:



_Were early bronze cannons actually lasers?__ Leonardo da Vinci's The Cannon Foundry. __Source_​
By the way, in the 'churches as klystrons' post above, I meant to compare and contrast the two dark blue klystron images with this plan of Lincoln Cathedral:

_Lincoln Klystron Cathedral. __Source_​
But that's an aside.

The Irish said Lugh and Balor were gods. And not just elite, well-dressed gods like Protestant and Catholic gods. They were hard. They fought vast wars in the sky. Their wars killed a lot of humans. But the humans were just 'collateral'.

In _The Celtic Gods_, Patrick McCafferty and Mike Baillie claimed Irish memories tales of Lugh (and Balor) were sanitised in the 19th Century. On page 14, they demonstrate the scale of the pruning with a sample from a story re-written by Lady Augusta Gregory. The story is still bizarre but the re-written version is stripped of many supernatural details. Read _The Celtic Gods_ for this and more signs that Lady Augusta Gregory and William Butler Yeats were re-seeding Ireland with a new culture, replacing its mythology with plays performed in Dublin's new Abbey Theatre.

Perhaps Gregory and Yeats were simply doing the Irish version of what the Tennyson family and their many literary colleagues in England were doing. In England's case, that was fabricating Chaucer and Shakespeare. And fabricating the history of the English language (also continued here).

Side-note: secondhand sellers of _The Celtic Gods in the UK_

Maybe the reason mankind suffers from amnesia is because mankind's memories were systematically discarded and replaced from the 17th Century onwards. That is: during and after the gods' global wars.

We could also wonder if the role of the newly-invented Church in the 19th Century was to cargo cult people's memories of the power of phosphorous. Which it did by re-working dangerous, ever-present phosphorus into the evil Lucifer. This in order to:

reduce industrial injuries, and
remove knowledge of a cheap, powerful, weapon from the still-to-be-working classes.




Your browser is not able to display this video.



_British Industrial Revolution begins. Source: London Olympics opening ceremony, 2012_
​Just playing with ideas, of course. But it's odd how the phossy jaw industrial injury story parallels the radium girls' industrial injury story. It is as though a single narrative template was deployed twice to remove hands-on knowledge of two everyday power sources elements.

There are some amazing coincidences in these stories and institutions, don't you think?

Although mandatory, the imposition of a new culture wasn't necessarily a bad thing. Perhaps the Fomerians and Tuatha da Danann fought the 17th Century wars to take down the entities (drunkenly) running the 'nunneries', the pleasure gardens, the 'tier park' hunting grounds and the fast-food baby-eateries.

_The morning after the night before. Source: __Barry Lyndon, 1975_​
And to flood and burn all those halls and mansions ruined in 1730 and 1760 - and being dismantled when John Byng toured them in around 1790:


_The Romans. But not as we know them. Source: __Barry Lyndon, 1975_​
Ties in with American Indian tales of hunting down red-haired cannibal giants, and with claims the Church introduced 'fish on Friday' to reduce the amount of cannibalism going on. It even ties in with a Rev George Oliver hint that the English ate meat - as long as it didn't walk on four legs.

By the way, the diaries of that connoisseur of the big meaty meal, John Byng, show him eating a lot of 'pickled salmon'. That's probably not remarkable if you're eastern European, Baltic, Slavic or north-east Asian. But if you're British, it's plain weird. The British don't have pickling skills. They especially don't have lacto-fermentation skills - which is what pickling seems to have been before it was industrialised. As any kimchi vendor will tell you.

So what was a high-fat fish doing - pickled and potted - on the menus of inns and taverns in Byng's late 18th Century England? I propose it was - for big meat-eaters like Byng - a poor substitute that had replaced the previously widely available lacto-fermented, potted, chewman babies.

Thanks Fomerians and Tuatha da Danann. I am grateful for what you did there.

The question is: why did the Fomerians and Tuatha da Danann bother to save chewmans - a semi-sentient, slave-cum-farm-animal - from the general destruction?

Trying to put ourselves into the mind-set of advanced entities isn't easy. But perhaps their thinking went something like this:


> Those new, sentient-model chewmans could make useful caretakers. If they can learn some skillz, some Health & Safety... and quit pickling their babies for sale and distilling their urine.



And finally, where would we be without another tunnel story? Especially given the 'tunnels and denied tunnels' post that started off this thread...

A couple of days ago, I went over to Stamford, Lincolnshire, to follow up on the tunnel story told to me by the elderly chap mentioned in post-104407. Summary: When house-hunting decades ago, he had looked at the former rectory for All Saints church, Stamford (Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images). In its cellar, he was shown the locked entrance to a tunnel. The vendor told him the tunnel ran under the road to the church.

I was trying to identify the house. Tricky because, apparently, three houses around there have been home to the vicar/rector of All Saints. Including its most famous vicar: the antiquarian William Stukeley. Unfortunately, I could only identify the two Stukeley houses on a street called Barn Hill (Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap). Closely inspecting the other houses naturally brought out one of the owners wanting to know what I was doing.

My mission explained, he told me his friends in Broadhembury, Devon, had discovered a tunnel in their cellar. It ran under the road to the church. These links are to the cottage but you can't miss Broadhembury's disproportiantely large church: (Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images).



> It led into the crypt. The tunnel walls had partially collapsed so lead-lined coffins had fallen into the tunnel. It all had to be sorted out before they could finish their refurb.
> 
> Then they found a well in the kitchen floor. About 1m wide. They glassed it over.



Now, why would a little village need a tunnel from a cottage to the church next door? Why would Broadhembury need such a big church? From previous posts we know eastern England was depopulated. In Broadhembury, do we see evidence of depopulation in western England too?

And the other question still applies: why would this rural location require a tunnel between church and cottage?


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## feralimal (Nov 5, 2021)

Inspiration has struck, so I want to review Wind in the Willows in context of the IHASFEMR thread.

The reason I made this connection at all, is from usselo's post on Byng.



usselo said:


> As for *what* they ate, John Byng - mentioned in these posts - had a big appetite for meat, veg and booze. A typical supper:
> 
> "My supper consisted of a fine roasted fowl, cold ham, pickled salmon, artichoke and tarts."
> 
> ...



This made me think of when Mole first meets Ratty, and they have a picnic:



> ‘Hold hard a minute, then!’ said the Rat. He looped the painter through a ring in his landing-stage, climbed up into his hole above, and after a short interval reappeared staggering under a fat, wicker luncheon-basket.
> ‘Shove that under your feet,’ he observed to the Mole, as he passed it down into the boat. Then he untied the painter and took the sculls again.
> ‘What’s inside it?’ asked the Mole, wriggling with curiosity.
> ‘There’s  cold  chicken  inside  it,’  replied  the  Rat  briefly;
> ...



(free download here: Download The Wind in the Willows free in PDF & EPUB format)

That passage is very reminiscent to me of Byng.  But then when I thought more about it, there are some other strong correlations with the Wind in the Willows and our thread here.

Then I realised that *Badger knows*.



> Presently they all sat down to luncheon together. The Mole found himself placed next to Mr. Badger, and, as the other two were still deep in river-gossip from which nothing could divert them, he took the opportunity to tell Badger how comfortable and home-like it all felt to him. ‘Once well underground,’ he said,  ‘you  know  exactly  where  you  are.  Nothing  can  happen  to  you,  and nothing can get at you. You’re entirely your own master, and you don’t have to consult anybody or mind what they say. Things go on all the same overhead, and you let ‘em, and don’t bother about ‘em. When you want to, up you go, and there the things are, waiting for you.’
> 
> The Badger simply beamed on him. ‘That’s exactly what I say,’ he replied. ‘There’s no security, or peace and tranquillity, except underground. And then, if your ideas get larger and you want to expand—why, a dig and a scrape, and there you are! If you feel your house is a bit too big, you stop up a hole or two, and there you are again! No builders, no tradesmen, no remarks passed on you by fellows looking over your wall, and, above all, no WEATHER. Look at Rat, now. A couple of feet of flood water, and he’s got to move into hired lodgings;  uncomfortable,  inconveniently  situated,  and  horribly  expensive.  Take Toad. I say nothing against Toad Hall; quite the best house in these parts, AS a house. But supposing a fire breaks out—where’s Toad? Supposing tiles are blown off, or walls sink or crack, or windows get broken—where’s Toad? Supposing  the  rooms  are  draughty—I  HATE  a  draught  myself—where’s Toad? No, up and out of doors is good enough to roam about and get one’s living in; but underground to come back to at last—that’s my idea of HOME.’
> 
> ...







I'm going to repeat some of the highlights from long passage above:



> The Mole was staggered at the size, the extent, the ramifications of it all; at the length of the dim passages, the solid vaultings of  the  crammed  store-chambers,  the  masonry  everywhere,  the  pillars,  the arches, the pavements.



This speaks for itself.



> But as a matter of fact I did none of it—only cleaned out the passages and chambers, as far as I had need of them. There’s lots more of it, all round about.



Badger found these.



> Well, very long ago, on the spot where the Wild Wood waves now, before ever it had planted itself and grown up to what it now is, there was a city—a city of people, you know. Here, where we are standing, they lived, and walked, and talked, and slept, and carried on their business. Here they stabled their horses and feasted, from here they rode out to fight or drove out to trade. They were a powerful people, and rich, and great builders. They built to last, for they thought their city would last for ever.’



Badger knows something... but not the whole story.



> ‘People come—they stay for a while, they flourish, they build—and they go. It is their way. But we remain. There were badgers here, I’ve been told, long before that same city ever came to be. And now there are badgers here again. We are an enduring lot, and we may move out for a time, but we wait, and are patient, and back we come. And so it will ever be.’



Badger is talking about "badgers", Grahame (the author) is talking about "people".  The use of animals should be read - by us at least - as metaphorical - the 'animals' in the story are just a different type of conscious creature - inferior to the 'people' who build the infrastructure they now live in.  George Orwell does something similar to this in Animal Farm.



> ‘When they went,’ continued the Badger, ‘the strong winds and persistent rains took the matter in hand, patiently, ceaselessly, year after year. Perhaps we badgers too, in our small way, helped a little—who knows? It was all down, down, down, gradually—ruin and levelling and disappearance.



'They' left.  'Badgers' may have helped build this, in their small way..



> Animals arrived,  liked  the  look  of  the  place,  took  up  their  quarters,  settled  down, spread, and flourished. They didn’t bother themselves about the past—they never do; they’re too busy. The place was a bit humpy and hillocky, naturally, and full of holes; but that was rather an advantage. And they don’t bother about the future, either—the future when perhaps the people will move in again—for  a  time—as  may  very  well  be.



Repopulation.



> ‘You really needn’t fret, Ratty,’ added the Badger placidly. ‘My passages run further than you think, and I’ve bolt-holes to the edge of the wood in several directions, though I don’t care for everybody to know about them. When  you  really  have  to  go,  you  shall  leave  by  one  of  my  short  cuts.



Even more hidden tunnels.



> the Badger, taking up his lantern again, led the way along a damp and airless tunnel that wound and dipped, part vaulted, part hewn through solid rock, for a weary distance that seemed to be miles. At last daylight began to show itself confusedly through tangled growth overhanging the mouth of the passage; and the Badger, bidding them a hasty good-bye, pushed them hurriedly through the opening, made everything look as natural as possible again, with creepers, brushwood, and dead leaves, and retreated.



Solidly made tunnels!  Through solid rock, a distance that seemed to be miles.  Badger covers up the exit to make everything look natural - he gains advantage from his secret knowledge.

Do I need to say more?  Do I need to draw out the parallels with what we discuss here?

"DULCE DOMUM" is the name of one of the chapters in the book.  "Sweet Home" indeed.

Toad goes to prison, but escapes.  Unfortunately the wild wooders have taken his grand house - Toad Hall.



> ‘Well may you ask!’ said the Rat reproachfully. ‘While you were riding about the country in expensive motor-cars, and galloping proudly on blood-horses, and breakfasting on the fat of the land, those two poor devoted animals have been camping out in the open, in every sort of weather, living very rough by day and lying very hard by night; watching over your house, patrolling your  boundaries,  keeping  a  constant  eye  on  the  stoats  and  the  weasels, scheming and planning and contriving how to get your property back for you. You don’t deserve to have such true and loyal friends, Toad, you don’t, really. Some day, when it’s too late, you’ll be sorry you didn’t value them more while you had them!’
> 
> ‘I’m an ungrateful beast, I know,’ sobbed Toad, shedding bitter tears. ‘Let me  go  out  and  find  them,  out  into  the  cold,  dark  night,  and  share  their hardships, and try and prove by——Hold on a bit! Surely I heard the chink of dishes on a tray! Supper’s here at last, hooray! Come on, Ratty!’
> 
> The  Rat  remembered  that  poor  Toad  had  been  on  prison  fare  for  a considerable time, and that large allowances had therefore to be made. He followed him to the table accordingly, and hospitably encouraged him in his gallant efforts to make up for past privations.



Lol - ratty and toad need a plate or 3 of mutton chops and cold salmon, to recover their spirits!

Despite the disappointment of the loss of his house, Ratty, Mole and Badger have got plans to recover it.  This next section describes the plan.



> By this time they were all three talking at once, at the top of their voices, and the noise was simply deafening, when a thin, dry voice made itself heard, saying, ‘Be quiet at once, all of you!’ and instantly every one was silent.
> 
> It was the Badger, who, having finished his pie, had turned round in his chair and was looking at them severely. When he saw that he had secured their attention, and that they were evidently waiting for him to address them, he turned back to the table again and reached out for the cheese. And so great was the respect commanded by the solid qualities of that admirable animal, that not another word was uttered until he had quite finished his repast and brushed the crumbs from his knees. The Toad fidgeted a good deal, but the Rat held him firmly down.
> 
> ...





> That very useful tunnel leads right up under the butler’s pantry, next to the dining-hall!



Of course - straight into the butler's pantry!

The next section is the execution of the plan, using the secret tunnel:


> So at last they were in the secret passage, and the cutting-out expedition had really begun!
> 
> It was cold, and dark, and damp, and low, and narrow, and poor Toad began to shiver, partly from dread of what might be before him, partly because he was wet through. The lantern was far ahead, and he could not help lagging behind a little in the darkness. Then he heard the Rat call out warningly, ‘COME on, Toad!’ and a terror seized him of being left behind, alone in the darkness, and he ‘came on’ with such a rush that he upset the Rat into the Mole and the Mole into the Badger, and for a moment all was confusion. The Badger thought they were being attacked from behind, and, as there was no room to use a stick or a cutlass, drew a pistol, and was on the point of putting a bullet into Toad. When he found out what had really happened he was very angry indeed, and said, ‘Now this time that tiresome Toad SHALL be left behind!’
> 
> ...



I'll leave it at that.  The story is short and charming - well worth a read.  There is more in there, for sure.

But I want to point out how it re-iterates a lot of the points we have discussed here.  Grand houses, miles of secret tunnels, fine and rich food, lots of mystery re the tunnels and their creators with more information being held back by those in the know (Badger).

And what of Kenneth Grahame the author of The Wind in the Willows?  From Kenneth Grahame - Wikipedia:



> Grahame wanted to attend *Oxford University*, but was not allowed to do so by his guardian on grounds of cost. Instead he was sent to work at the *Bank of England* in 1879, and rose through the ranks until retiring as its Secretary in 1908 due to ill health,[4] which may have been precipitated by a possibly political shooting incident at the bank in 1903. Grahame was shot at three times, but all the shots missed him.
> 
> An alternative explanation, given in a letter on display in the Bank museum, is that he had quarrelled with Walter Cunliffe, one of the bank's directors, who would later become Governor of the Bank of England, in the course of which he was heard to say that Cunliffe was "no gentleman". His retirement was enforced ostensibly on health grounds. He was awarded an annual pension of £400, but a worked example on display indicates he was actually due to receive £710.



Interesting story - we can also see that he was a connected fellow.


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## feralimal (Nov 6, 2021)

usselo said:


> Now, why would a little village need a tunnel from a cottage to the church next door? Why would Broadhembury need such a big church? From previous posts we know eastern England was depopulated. In Broadhembury, do we see evidence of depopulation in western England too?
> 
> And the other question still applies: why would this rural location require a tunnel between church and cottage?



I have searched for tunnels near where I live.  Unfortunately, there is a very prominent tunnel - when I search that seems to be _all_ I find.

However, I have heard personally of a (modern) house that has a tunnel to what was the "artist's studio".  The studio was sold and is now a house of its own - the tunnel is now blocked off.

I believe this information is true, but it does not makes sense.  The location of the studio is at the back of a small garden - probs 25 foot away.  Why would anyone bother to dig all that out?  It does prevent a walk in the drizzle, or anyone knowing your comings and goings, but its just not worth it.

My best guess is that the tunnels were already there, and incorporated into the modern house etc.  Perhaps there are a lot of tunnels around, but as this one was in good repair they continued to use it?  Who knows though.

Anyway, I'm just re-iterating the point from personal experience, that short tunnels really are a thing.


----------



## usselo (Nov 6, 2021)

feralimal said:


> Badger is talking about "badgers", Grahame (the author) is talking about "people".  The use of animals should be read - by us at least - as metaphorical - the 'animals' in the story are just a different type of conscious creature - inferior to the 'people' who build the infrastructure they now live in.  George Orwell does something similar to this in Animal Farm.
> 
> But I want to point out how it re-iterates a lot of the points we have discussed here.  Grand houses, miles of secret tunnels, fine and rich food, lots of mystery re the tunnels and their creators with more information being held back by those in the know (Badger).
> 
> ...


Man, great find! And kudos to you for putting in the work to present it.

Your link to Kenneth Grahame's biography says he was: "sent to work at the Bank of England", where he survived a pistol attack in 1903. "Possibly" as a result, the link says, Grahame retired five years later. The link adds an alternative explanation for Grahame's retirement: because he had quarrelled with soon-to-be BoE director Walter Cunliffe.

Observations:

"Sent to work" implies some organising agent took the choice of employment out of his hands - and out of the Bank of England's hands. Presumably that was a well-connected relative.
With regard to the pistol shots, you would think they know what happened with certainty and that lack of certainty is because the issue is wrapped in bank secrecy.
Walter Cunliffe eventually became governor of the Bank of England. Today, a Jon Cunliffe is BoE deputy governor for Financial Stability (Sir Jon Cunliffe and Jon Cunliffe - Wikipedia). Jon Cunliffe's early biography is missing so we can't easily work out if he is related to Walter Cunliffe.
A few weeks ago, Jon Cunliffe gave a speech about cryptocurrency increasing the risks of financial instability. It got a lot of coverage and was trolled in the Keiser Report's "Bank of England (allegedly)" episode:





Your browser is not able to display this video.



_The Bank of England. Nothing to hide, nothing to fear. Allegedly. __Source_

Thinking about your comment that Grahame was well connected... He published _The Wind in the Willows_ - a work about rural English idyll_ - _in 1908. This was about the same time-frame Mercury H.G. Wells was writing forward-looking, technocratic works. Much less well-known is that Wells was associating with - and apparently writing for - think-tanks (The Coefficients and the Fabians) who were involved with massaging public perceptions. At least, English perceptions, but probably perceptions further afield than England.

So, we can wonder if Grahame and Wells were neighbouring nodes in a network. Grahame massaging backward-looking perceptions; Wells massing forward-looking perceptions.

We can also ask ourselves: what did Grahame's public know about England's tunnels? Let alone the other matters discussed in this thread? Today, we know there were tunnels - and tunnel legends - because the legends survive to our time. The legends are reinforced, even today, by pub and hotel workers, builders and house owners who still encounter tunnel entrances in cellars.

The following is a newspaper story from 1847 about passages found under houses in Greenwich, London. Note how the story shows no curiousity about the passages themselves, only about how people were now using them.



_Source: Stamford Mercury, 1847-01-29_​Does the lack of interest in the origin of the passage mean:

Newspaper reporting (and editing) was poor by today's standards
Readers could be expected to know why the passage would be there.
Readers could not be expected to know why the passage was there. Nor care.
Being a mansion, the house in the newspaper story could be the so-called Vanbrugh Castle ('crenellated' mansions are sometimes called 'castles') but the description sounds as though the mansion was more prosaic than a castle. Whatever, the mansion is near here (Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images). And if you scroll around the map there is plenty else suspicious! 

The Vanbrugh Castle web-page also mentions the last name 'Yarborough', which shows up a lot as an elite name in north Lincolnshire and Yorkshire. I suspect this may be one aspect of a re-population breeding program. A programme begun in the late 17th Century and running through the 18th and on into the 19th Century.

Coincidentally enough, John Vanbrugh also redesigned Byng's mate's mansion-castle at Grimsthorpe (Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images).

I wonder if Kenneth Grahame was writing a novel that could be used to 'eggbox' memories and stories of tunnels. The mechanism could work something like:

*Person A*: "You know, giants used to live in tunnels under towns and eat *everything* including us."
*Person B*: "Oh, you are just remembering _Wind in the Willows_. Someone probably read it to you as a kid."
Orthodox history often acknowledges various issues discussed in this thread - but only as one-off and/or geographically distant events. An example is the Sawney Bean story. Orthodoxly, the Beans were a single family of red-haired cannibals living in a cave near the west coast of Scotland. Who preyed on travellers. But when you traipse through cannibal mythology, you find Sawney Bean-like stories are widespread.

Similarly, village and market crosses as places of restraint... You find a few examples of market crosses with rings for prisoners' chains built into them but when you look at many crosses, you find various forms of jail, cavern or tunnel under them.

The transformation of the routine eating of humans into a single 'Last Supper' event (mentioned in post-104570), is another example of the technique.



feralimal said:


> However, I have heard personally of a (modern) house that has a tunnel to what was the "artist's studio".  The studio was sold and is now a house of its own - the tunnel is now blocked off.
> 
> I believe this information is true, but it does not makes sense.  The location of the studio is at the back of a small garden - probs 25 foot away.


You'd need to check old maps for your area. See what was there before. The pub-manor-hall algorithm is pretty reliable out in the countryside, but there are other tunnel-finding algorithms. The 1840-ish Ordnance Survey might do the trick for you. Try the VisionOfBritain maps at: https://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/maps/

You might start by looking at the 'Boundary maps' tab on that page.



feralimal said:


> Why would anyone bother to dig all that out?


The size of the bother depends on the size of the cost. For example, it's possible the tunnels were dug by human children, with an accident and death rate beyond our ability to imagine. But a cost of near-zero. These events may have been reduced down to the stories we have been given about children working in mines.

But I don't think the tunnels were necessarily dug by humans at all. Removing our human limitations from our ideas about how the tunnels were dug (and why they were dug) makes it easier to attack this puzzle.

As for *why* the tunnels were dug...

Calm stock is more predictable, and therefore easier, and therefore more consistent, and therefore cheaper to manage at slaughter time. It's also thought that unstressed meat tastes better.


_Curved cattle chutes reduce stress in pre-slaughter livestock. __Source_​
Why?

From: Temple Grandin's designs for slaughterhouse livestock management:


> As the animals go around the curve, they think they are going back to where they came from.
> The animals can not see people and other moving objects at the end of the chute.
> It takes advantage of the natural circling behaviour of cattle and sheep.



If we look at the details, we can see the principles being applied:


_Improved design superimposed on basic design. __Source_​
From Sample Designs of Cattle Races and Corrals


> If the single file race is bent too sharply where it joins the crowd pen, the pigs may refuse to enter. The pigs must be able to see a minimum of three body lengths up the race before it bends.


​You'll notice both traditional designs and Temple Grandin's designs try to minimise livestock's sight of their imminent slaughter.

One of Temple Grandin's abbey abbatoir innovations is the gently curved chute or race. It fools each animal into thinking it can see what lies ahead.

It falsely reassures.

When fully implemented, this means significant extra costs:

_It's worth investing in the long-run. __Source_​
Here's a Temple Grandin livestock management design for a small abbatoir:

_"Small Abattoir lairage and pen layout." __Source_​
Lairage:


> A place where cattle or sheep may be rested on the way to market or slaughter.



Laird:


> (in Scotland) a person who owns a large estate



Lord:


> historical: A feudal superior, especially the owner of a manor house.



*Man*or house. *Man*or Farm. Animal Farm.

The more sentient the stock, the more effort is invested in managing its vision of what lies ahead. And in giving false reassurance.





Your browser is not able to display this video.



_Just relax... Source: __Cloud Atlas, 2012_


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## Citezenship (Nov 6, 2021)

When reading through you post my mind keeps jumping to the video game called Death Stranding, very cargo cult and has too many correlations to your findings for it to be a coincidence.

Death Stranding - Wikipedia

The baby in a jar is the strangest one, for the baby's power to function properly it needs to think it is still in the womb which the jar simulates, maybe this could be a metaphor for our reality.








Funny that they used the zombie actor guy for this role.

That saying keep rolling around in my head, truth in the films, lies in the news.

Now I am not that big on the whole psychic phenomena but I do know all the successful creative types like Hideo Kojima(interesting name, hideo) get the creative juices flowing by tapping into the channeling subnet and are able to make downloads(for want of better expression) that then get translated/muted into the media that we all seem to have a voracious appetite for.

This thread still surprises me every time I catch up with, i am still several pages behind so have some catching up to do.


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## usselo (Nov 8, 2021)

Citezenship said:


> When reading through you post my mind keeps jumping to the video game called Death Stranding, very cargo cult and has too many correlations to your findings for it to be a coincidence.
> 
> Death Stranding - Wikipedia
> 
> The baby in a jar is the strangest one, for the baby's power to function properly it needs to think it is still in the womb which the jar simulates, maybe this could be a metaphor for our reality.


Yes. Metaphorically, many people are still "in the womb". They swapped Mummy for Government. And they toil away for kiddy treats and the pleasure of watching other children being naughty, being caught, and being punished.

Watch a TV detective series. Or _East Enders_. To see kiddy treats, just watch the adverts.

This approach to life looks like a cargo cult remnant of the earlier manorial farm system. As though our human adult population are struggling to mature beyond, say, age 12.

In my original conjecture about manorial management's preferred age for slaughtering children, I thought it was probably at around 12 years old. Before the chewmans became too big, too self-willed, and therefore too hard to manage. Here's the context for that 12-year age estimate:

You can see three preferred ages of slaughter:

At birth
By around 12 years old
As late as 30 (if they were lucky)
You have been contributing to the thread for a long time so you don't need me to repeat this. But for newer readers:

In archaeologists' own papers most chewman babies were slaughtered and lacto-fermented died at birth. I expect most of the survivors were worked - see tunnel-digging above - until:
Up to 12 years old or so. The few survivors after that were kept for:
breeding in nunneries (and presumably for leisure purposes), or
fighting in 'tier parks' and perhaps urban settings (the 'gladiators' myth).

Unpacking that list... there is plenty of evidence that larger humans - or human-like - hominids were available for heavy work. Giants and probably 'other'. So I don't think there was a guarantee that post-puberty chewmans would be used for slave labour. My sense is that the value-adds offered by older human children were dexterity and programmability.

With regard to fighting, we're all aware that mature chewmans were pitted against animals. That's the 'Roman Gladiators in the Colosseum' myth. While working on the 'Humans as Entertainment' post, I came across evidence that children were - and sometimes still are - cut up and fed to animals for entertainment and/or put in a walled field or wood with hungry animals for onlookers to take pleasure in the spectacle. Or directly hunted (and sometimes hunted in ways that suggest torturing the human mind was part of the fun). As far as I can discover, today, children are preferred for these activities. It seems to be a product variant offered by entities in the child trafficking sector.

However, I expect that there were - and still are - higher risk variants of hunting that involve mature, possibly well-trained, humans.

The reason I mention this is to do with an observation about adult humans: it's that after puberty many human adults develop remarkably rigid outlooks. They seem to lock into systems of belief - career, aspirations, religious views, political views, sports and entertainment preferences - such that each adult individual shows quite predictable behaviours. I'm not talking about habits or minor addictions like coffee, tea, or chocolate. I'm talking about attitudes, which in turn produce visible, predictable, patterns of behaviour. Mind-set.

This suggests to me that among the design features built into humans is a propensity for being trained. And - if they survived beyond puberty - to carry on with their entrained behaviours until death.

The absence of specific training today may explain why your 'babies in the womb' observation may be more than computer game entertainment, and a genuine metaphor for today's adult human. That is: it could be that humans are no longer being trained and - absent any other entrained behaviour - are taking their baby-like, child-like trust and affection for their nuns their nannies their parents and transferring it directly to Government.

By example, although it would have been too late, the fabricant in the above _Cloud Atlas_ clip should have noticed one of the abbatoir workers was wearing a mask.

Who wears masks today?



Citezenship said:


> That saying keep rolling around in my head, truth in the films, lies in the news.


Yes 

I use film clips because they help people visualise events that could account for the evidence. And because they may help people get past my wordiness.

But it is odd how very easy it is to find film clips that depict exactly what the evidence all around us so strongly suggests.


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## Citezenship (Nov 8, 2021)

usselo said:


> This approach to life looks like a cargo cult remnant of the earlier manorial farm system. In my original conjecture about manorial management's preferred age for slaughtering children, I thought it was probably at around 12 years old. Before the chewmans became too big, too self-willed, and therefore too hard to manage. Here's the context for that 12-year age estimate:


I think this has something to do with the education system because it seem that this was more common before the mandatory schools, almost as if the schooling replaced the need to kill as it took care of the spirit that seems to flourish in the unschooled.

This also ties in to the admiralty laws and how in the land of the dead we are, as adults, still classed as children and therefore need to be represented when playing in one of their courts, i hope that makes sense.

I can say that because my own programming was interrupted that i don't seem to have the unwavering faith in the cult of authority that one needs to truly flourish in the land of the (living) dead or even have the desire to.


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## feralimal (Nov 8, 2021)

feralimal said:


> I managed to get to the British Library recently.
> 
> On the approach you see this statue:
> 
> ...





feralimal said:


> I almost wrote 'quary' rather than 'herd' there.
> 
> Quary
> 
> ...



Since writing the above, I think I can give the above a better etymological treatment.

Re the etymology of 'quarry', as in stone, at quarry | Etymology, origin and meaning of quarry by etymonline I see:



> quarry (n.1)
> 
> [what is hunted] early 14c., quirre "entrails of deer placed on the hide and given to dogs of the chase as a reward," from Anglo-French quirreie, Old French cuiriee "the spoil, quarry" (Modern French curée), altered (by influence of Old French cuir "skin," from Latin corium "hide"), from Old French corée "viscera, entrails," from Vulgar Latin *corata "entrails," from Latin cor "heart" (from PIE root *kerd- "heart").
> 
> ...



It relates to *entrails* given to dogs as a reward, *skin*, object of _eager pursuit_, bird targeted by a hawk or raptor
*and*
a place where rocks are excavated and made *square*, related to _quadrus_ "a square," _quattuor_ "four".

for some reason, in my previous post, I pointed out the compass.  Re the etymology of 'compass', at compass | Etymology, origin and meaning of compass by etymonline, I see:



> compass (n.)
> 
> c. 1300, "space, area, extent, circumference," from Old French compas "circle, radius; size, extent; pair of compasses" (12c.), from compasser "to go around, measure (with a compass); divide equally," from Vulgar Latin *compassare "to pace out," from Latin com "with, together" (see com-) + passus "a step" (from PIE root *pete- "to spread").
> 
> ...



Ie - the etymology of compass relates to go around, measure (with a compass); divide equally and surround, contain, envelop, enclose.

In summary we have:
* we have quary as 'pray', I mean 'prey', and entrails, and skin.
* we have quary as 'square'.
* we have compass which can mean 'enclose'.

There seem to be a few dense terms here - with unexpected relations in themselves, and to this thread in particular.  It _feels_ a bit like uncovering a hidden language.


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## usselo (Nov 9, 2021)

Citezenship said:


> I think this has something to do with the education system because it seem that this was more common before the mandatory schools, almost as if the schooling replaced the need to kill as it took care of the spirit that seems to flourish in the unschooled.


My suspicion about this part is that the transition from slave-cum-edible to self-directed aspirational learner (I know we can argue the finer points of that latter description but you know my views) was planned, managed, implemented. What we would have been had the current - or the then - educational system not been put in place, well, that I can barely guess at. Certainly, we are sold a story about how chewmans might have turned out - through books like William Golding's _Lord of the Flies_.


Citezenship said:


> This also ties in to the admiralty laws and how in the land of the dead we are, as adults, still classed as children and therefore need to be represented when playing in one of their courts, i hope that makes sense.


Your comment makes perfect sense to me.

Still submerged in the weeds of this thread is the question of what happened around 1631 outside of Pompeii. One of the discrepancies that got me to look more carefully at English ecclesiastical history was that Dutch and Belgian North Sea inundations are not recorded in English history. They do, however, coincide with large-scale English land ownership changes. It follows that the concept of 'lost, presumed drowned' in Admiralty law may be an outcome of a recent flood, a flood hidden from history:





Your browser is not able to display this video.



_The Deluge. Source: __Westworld S02 Ep01_

Hence the need for a breeding programme.



Citezenship said:


> I can say that because my own programming was interrupted that i don't seem to have the unwavering faith in the cult of authority that one needs to truly flourish in the land of the (living) dead or even have the desire to.


 Nothing I can add to that!



feralimal said:


> quarry (n.1)
> 
> [what is hunted] early 14c., quirre "entrails of deer placed on the hide and given to dogs of the chase as a reward," from Anglo-French quirreie, Old French cuiriee "the spoil, quarry" (Modern French curée), altered (by influence of Old French cuir "skin," from Latin corium "hide"), from Old French corée "viscera, entrails," from Vulgar Latin *corata "entrails," from Latin cor "heart" (from PIE root *kerd- "heart").
> 
> The original meaning is obsolete. The sense of "beast of the chase when pursued or slain in a hunt" is by 1610s,


Quarry, quary, quirre, quirreie, cuiree. Possible link to 'squire' and/or 'curate'?

You could wonder if old halls - like Hunstanton's - were built near quarries. The surrounding ecclesiastic infrastructure - churches, abbeys, monasteries, nunneries - could have been for breeding, food-production, butchery and entertainment (games, hunts, torture and sex).

We can then see this infrastructure was attacked and/or flooded in the century before Byng was touring and journalling. This has implications for how we re-construct England's chronology.



feralimal said:


> Since writing the above, I think I can give the above a better etymological treatment.
> 
> Re the etymology of 'quarry', as in stone, at quarry | Etymology, origin and meaning of quarry by etymonline I see:
> 
> ...


Byng's comments about east England's ruined towers left me wondering if he knew they were used as part of hunting spectacles. He suggests "falconry and other sports", if I remember his comment correctly.

The modern examples I found of parts of living humans being fed to animals, did involve dogs. This was done in front of other children, who presumed they were being taught to comply.


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## feralimal (Nov 9, 2021)

usselo said:


> You could wonder if old halls - like Hunstanton's - were built near quarries. The surrounding ecclesiastic infrastructure - churches, abbeys, monasteries, nunneries - could have been for food-production, butchery and entertainment (games, hunts and sex).


Well, its a bit further afield, but the famous Paris catacombs, with its estimated 6 million skeletons, are apparently a consolidation of quarries.

Perhaps 'quarries' play some part in justifying rumours of tunnels etc, eg "its a quarry tunnel", with the double meaning capable of being interpreted by the listener according to their awareness.

Legalese of course is full of these sorts of opposite meanings eg "did you suffer this abusive man?"  I believe Masons may refer to this as 'masterful language'.


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## usselo (Nov 9, 2021)

feralimal said:


> Well, its a bit further afield, but the famous Paris catacombs, with its estimated 6 million skeletons, are apparently a consolidation of quarries.



_"They were being bred by the Morlocks." Source: __The Time Machine, 1960_​
Quarrying is physical work, sometimes hard physical work. It develops the appetite.

*Links to offsite resources referenced in this thread:*

Brothers of the Serpent podcast interviews with Eugene McCarthy about hybridisation and his evidence that humans are hybrids:

Brothers of the Serpent podcast: episode 156
Brothers of the Serpent podcast: episode 157
Brothers of the Serpent podcast: episode 158
Plamski's thread - Human Origins: Are We Hybrids? - discusses McCarthy's findings and illustrates them with interesting visuals.

*Online copies of books referenced in this thread:*

Kenneth Grahame: _The Wind in the Willows_

George Orwell:_ Animal Farm_

Rev George Oliver:
The first two Oliver books below are particularly useful for their accounts of the nasty side of 'medieval' monks and abbots.

_History of the Trinity Guild at Sleaford, with an Account of its Miracle Plays, Religious Mysteries, and Shows, as practised in the Fifteenth Century..._
_An Account of the Religious Houses formerly situated on the eastern side of the River Witham_
_The existing Remains of the Ancient Britons within a small District lying between Lincoln and Sleaford_
In retrospect, I think Oliver was fabricating a human identity for the actual builders and original users of England's ecclesiastic ruins. Quite who and what they really were is possibly better accounted for by folklore.

John Byng:


> I viewed the ruins of the bishop's palace [in Lincoln]. The gardener remark'd 'these were fine places before they were _inherited_''.


From: _The Torrington Diaries, John Byng, p343_

The only complete online Byng book I know of  is: _The Torrington Diaries, Vol IV_

Also online are selections from the same _The Torrington Diaries Vol IV_, as straightforward text and with regional maps at:
https://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/travellers/Byng

The cheapest *print* version of _The Torrington Diaries_ is the abridged, single-volume: _The Torrington Diaries: A selection from the tours of the Hon. John Byng (later Fifth Viscount Torrington) between the years 1781 and 1794_, Edited by C. Bruyn Andrews, abridged into one by volume by Fanny Andrews, Eyre & Spottiswoode, 1954. For which there are:

Single-volume abridged _The Torrington Diaries_: UK sellers
Single-volume abridged _The Torrington Diaries_: US sellers
The various four-volume versions of _The Torrington Diaries_ are also available, thought at quite a price. Listings of the various volumes and editions get quite confusing so either buy the single-volume abridged version or be sure you are buying a full set of the four volumes published in 1934-1938.

We should not be naive about Byng and his evidence, just as we should not be naive about Oliver. Byng had a Dr Syntax in his life and Oliver had a Dr Crucifix. And from The Torrington Diaries:


> They are one of a number of eighteenth- and nineteenth-century diaries, journals and memoirs that emerged in the first half of the twentieth century, greatly enhancing our view of the years between 1760 and 1880. Thomas Creevey’s papers appeared in 1903, William Hickey’s memoirs followed in four volumes between 1913 and 1925, Parson Woodforde’s diaries in five between 1924 and 1931, Francis Kilvert’s in three between 1938 and 1940, while James Boswell’s London jurnal, the first fruits from the massive accumulation of Boswell papers, came out in 1950.



We should bear in mind the possibility that we are looking at a faked backdrop. Our challenge is to be able to see the multiple purposes, multiple goals of the evidence in front of us. And try to peer through it to the reality. But that's a different post.


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## usselo (Nov 11, 2021)

usselo said:


> ...the question of what happened around 1631 outside of Pompeii... Dutch and Belgian North Sea inundations are not recorded in English history. They do, however, coincide with large-scale English land ownership changes. It follows that the concept of 'lost, presumed drowned' in Admiralty law may be an outcome of a recent flood, a flood hidden from history:
> 
> View attachment 13617
> _The Deluge. Source: __Westworld S02 Ep01_


Images of ruined English abbeys made from 1737 into the 1850s. Taken from the images available at Rare Old Prints. I've used their median date of 1790 for the two "how many years earlier were they destroyed?" calculations below.

The standard chronology claims these ruins were created by:

Henry VIII's 1540 Dissolution and/or
During the 1642-1651 English Civil War.
So we can ask: does the state of the vegetation fit with the 1540 Dissolution 250 years earlier? If not, does the state of the vegetation fit with the Civil War 140 years earlier? Or does the state of the vegetation suggest a Year Zero closer to 1730?

The occasional images show signs of mudflood... Does mudflood fit better with the 1540 Dissolution? Or with the 1642-1651 Civil War? Or is mudflood simply an unexplained aspect of these ruins, also noted - without explanation - by Abner Brown and John Byng when they encountered wet, soil-embanked ruins?

Ruin locations:
​
There are many, many more prints available on the Rare Old Prints site. These are a small sample from its 'Abbeys' section.


_1737: Boxgrove Priory _
(Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images)



_1774 and 1807: __Basinwerk Abbey_
(Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images)


_1776: Dryburgh Abbey _
(Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images)


_1784: __Chapel of St Pancras, St Agatha's, Canterbury_
(Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images)



_1785 and 1844: __Cleve Abbey_
(Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images)


_1786: __Haverford West Priory_
(Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images)




_1786 - 1848: __Byland Abbey_
(Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images)


_1860: __Bayham Abbey_
(Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images)


_1787: __Burnham Abbey_
(Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images)




_1834: __Kirkstall Abbey_
(Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images)


_1801: __Castle Acre Priory_
(Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images)


_1803: __Cerne Abbey_
(Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images)


_1805: __Dunstable Priory Church_
(Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images)




_1807 - 1851: __Easby Abbey_
(Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images)



_1800 and 1820: __Beaulieu Abbey_
(Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images)



_1824: __Bildewas Abbey_
(Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images)



_1829 - 1850s: __Bolton Abbey_
(Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images)






_1773 - 1830s: __Tintern Abbey_
(Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images)



_1778 and 1844: __St Marys Abbey, York_
(Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images)​
British historical records contain no floods that could account for damage of this scale and type. Dutch and German historical records contain flood events that should have severely affected Britain but which also cannot account for damage of this scale and type. For summaries, try:

Climate Change, Floods, Famine and the Black Death – Paul Budde History, Philosophy, Culture
Half a million deaths. A forgotten North Sea disaster…
Beacons of Nordfriesland
Liste von Sturmfluten an der Nordsee – Wikipedia (Google-English translation)
Some of these records mention the 1530 St Felix Floods but seem to underplay their scale (Ie, from Rome to the North Sea). For discussion, try:

SH Archive - 1530: The Great Flood of Rome


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## usselo (Nov 25, 2021)

Four weeks after posting evidence that Hunstanton's chalk and sandstone cliffs were quarried for iron, the site with the photos - Everything's Electric - has gone.

Shame. However, scrubbing tells us what we should pay special attention to:


_Quarrying scars to the left, iron-ore to the right. Source: Google Maps_


_Remains of straight cuts perpendicular to the shore. Shadows indicate cross-cuts. Source: Google Maps_


_And with humans for scale. Source: Google Maps_


_Much less eroded cuts are sometimes visible. Source: Google Maps_​
As a rule of thumb, the diameter of a stone-cutting disc is around 64 times the width of its blade. Sometimes more. Call the cut in the above image 75mm wide and you are looking at a 4.8m diameter disk. I suspect it was bigger. Next time I'm there, I will try to find and measure a cut.

From the same post-104859:


> Quarrying might also explain the gap in the iron-rich red rock which - theoretically - once ran from Hunstanton to the iron-rich 'Spilsby sandstones' 35 miles north-west in Lincolnshire's southern Wolds See page 4. The dark green rocks...


(I've removed the original quote's confusion between the size of the gap in the ironstone cliffs and the width of the Wash.)

You can also see the gap in the three green-coloured rock formations in this eastern England bedrock map:

_Eastern England bedrock. Source: __British Geological Survey_​
If iron was quarried from Hunstanton's cliffs, where did the tailings - the left-overs - go?

Not many parts of Britain have been compared with the Sahara:


_The Brecks. __Image source_​
From The Brecks Earth Heritage Trail, page 8:


> "Nothing was to be seen on either side but sand and scattered gravel without the least vegetation; a mere African desert", wrote William Gilpin, when passing through Brandon in 1769.



The main surface characteristic of the Norfolk Brecks (AKA The Brecklands) is still sand. It is 6m (19+ ft) deep in places. More details: Sand Flood – Santon Downham.

From The Brecks Earth Heritage Trail, page 7:


> In past centuries, carriages would sometimes struggle through the ‘burning Brandon sands’.



Brandon: (Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images)

From page 3:


> Sand storms were once a regular occurrence, such as one which engulfed Santon Downham in 1668.



Santon Downham: (Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images)

From page 8:


> In the 1660s, Thomas Wright wrote about a ‘Sand-Floud’ that had originated in the Lakenheath and Wangford area and eventually engulfed the village of Santon Downham, almost blocking the Little Ouse river. A brown stone in the south-west corner of St Mary’s Church wall is said to mark the height reached by the sand (6m high).



Lakenheath: (Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images)

Brecks' conservationists blame:

Sheep
Rabbits
Humans
A version of the Ice Age starting in the 16th Century (page 8)
The BBC blames:

Sheep
Rabbits
Humans
A version of the Ice Age starting in the 16th Century
BBC audio:




your_browser_is_not_able_to_play_this_audio



_Source: __BBC Radio 4 - Making History, 20/10/2009_

(Note how they managed to stand by a 6m high sand deposit, then conclude there is no evidence Santon Downham was once buried by a 6m high sand deposit.  )

Anyway, they're on the same page. For the origin of the sand, both sources suggest you look south-west - towards Lakenheath and Wangford. Makes sense: England's prevailing south-westerlies would blow sand to the north-east. That is, from Lakenheath to the Brecks.

But how did Britain's prevailing winds blow sand on to Lakenheath in the first place? There are no major sand deposits south-west of Lakenheath.

From post-104482:


> There's a useful rule of thumb: invert whatever the 'authorities' tell you. Then you'll be closer to the truth.



Let's look north instead. Towards the top left-hand corner of the map of the Brecks.

Towards Hunstanton.

Any other clues about where the Brecks' sand came from?

One clue: From The Brecks Earth Heritage Trail, page 9:


> The soils here are acidic and poor in nutrients; humus and *iron* minerals are washed downwards



Another clue: Geologists study East Anglia's buried woodland 'tunnel valleys'. The landscape that existed before Ice Age tailings 'till' smothered them:

Buried woodland valleys. Source Woodland Revisited: East Anglia's Buried Channel Network...​
Another clue: the Bytham River. AKA the 'Ingham drainage channel':


_The Bytham River and tributaries. Source: __New Insight into the Quaternary Evolution of the River Trent, UK - Bridgland et al_


_Also known as the 'Ice Age' Bytham River. Source: __The ‘Tunnel’ Valleys of East Anglia and Fenland, UK_​
Ice ages around the Wash are tricky things. Geologists and glaciologists admit they can't differentiate one Lincolnshire ice age from another. Didn't we talk about geologists' difficulties with this region before?

*Question*: In what circumstances would rivers flow past the Wash to the south-east without draining out through it?

*Answer*: If the area now called 'the Wash' was sealed. By ironstone hills running north-west to south-east.





Your browser is not able to display this video.



_Clearly a massive endeavour. Source: __Westworld S01 Ep04_

A key question is: when was the seal broken?

As always, draw your own conjectures.

Other than the revelation of a real cover-up, what's this got to do with humans?

Also in the Brecks is Grimes Graves flint mine.


_Grimes Graves shaft pits. Image Source_
(Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images)


_Typically 10m (40 feet) from top to bottom. __Image Source_​From: When and Why? The Chronology and Context of Flint Mining at Grime’s Graves, Norfolk, England:


> The deepest, most complex galleried shafts were worked probably from the third quarter of the 27th century cal bc and are amongst the earliest on the site.



So, almost 5,000 years ago, Grimes Graves' miners allegedly performed three miracles:

They found high-quality flint 10 metres beneath multiple layers of chalk, clay and poor-quality flint.
They dug through the chalk with antler picks:

_Antler picks. Shoulder blade shovels. __Image source_​
And - look at the image of the section through a Grimes Graves mineshaft again - they kept the Brecks' infamous sand out of their mine shafts until they were done.
Quite a feat.

Expert prospectors that they were, I imagine they noticed they were digging through geological relatives of the rock layers at Hunstanton:



Grimes Graves (page 10)HunstantonSandWhite chalkClayVarious red, iron-rich chalksHard chalkRed iron-rich sandstone ('Carrstone')Soft chalkClayHard chalkSoft chalk


Except the layers were inverted: sand on top, chalk below. As if something had shovelled the chalk, then the sandstone, from Hunstanton and flipped it on to the Brecks. Stripping out the iron as it went, and depositing in the debris those useful drops of heat and pressure-treated clay called 'flint'.

Britain's Iron Age began 1,300 years later - in 800BC.

In AD43 the Romans arrived. And continued using iron.

About 400 years later, the Angle, Saxon, Viking and Norman invasion sequence began. They also continued using iron.

2,500 years of continuous demand for iron and none of them spotted some of Britain's richest, most accessible iron ore. And coal too! From Robert Pennant in _A Tour In Scotland_, as he rode past Inkersall, Staveley, on 27th June 1769:


> ...about three miles from the town, are several pits of iron-stone about nine or ten feet deep, The stratum lies above the coal, and is two feet thick. I was informed that the adventurers pay ten pounds per annum to the lord of the foil (meaning 'soil'), for liberty of raising it; that the laborers have six shillings per load for getting it: each load is about twenty strikes or bushels, which yields a tun of metal.



That's rich ore. And not much deeper than a grave.

You can still see the water-filled pits at Inkersall:

_Source: Google maps (Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images)_​
Summarising:

Grimes Graves flint... hard to find, deep and difficult to dig. But mined from almost 5,000 years ago.
Staveley coal and iron... Easily found, easily dug, easily refined. Ignored by iron miners until just 300 years ago.
Logic of the Situation:

Grimes Graves were dug by entities with skills not recognisably human.
The Brecks appeared in the 16th Century - when ironstone tailings were dumped on and upwind of it. By entities with skills not recognisably human.
The Wash formed when iron quarrying finished. By - or early in - the 18th Century.
Only after the entities 'left' did humans begin scrabbling for minerals - in the shallow deposits within reach of their newly-acquired capabilities.
I don't want to knock humans though. We're quick learners.

When we wake up:





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_Sporadic and unpredictable. Source: __Humans S02 Ep02_


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## usselo (Nov 26, 2021)

Dropping some evidence from mainstream sources here to ensure we keep things real...

Time Team's 'Ancaster' episode - S09 Ep02 - presented evidence for how 'ancient' iron industries and their workers really looked.

Ancaster is on iron-bearing limestone. Its hurriedly-built fort is important to historians of the 'Romans in England'. Ancaster is also the seat of the Duke of Ancaster. He is mentioned from post-104000 onwards for his connection with John Byng's travels through the ruins of 18th Century England.

Ancaster 'Roman' camp: (Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images)

The three clips below are all from Time Team's 'Ancaster' episode. Starting with the entities found at its iron-working sites:





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_"Is that... is that really human?" Source: __Time Team S09 Ep02_

I put it down to a high-protein diet.

From _Facts and Fancies in Modern Science_, JW Dawson, 1881:


> ...there is no good reason to regard the first man as having resembled a Greek Apollo or an Adonis. He was probably of sterner and more muscular mould. But the gigantic palæolithic men of the European caves are more probably representatives of that fearful and powerful race who filled the antediluvian world with violence, and who reappear in postdiluvian times as the Anakim and traditional giants, who constitute a feature in the early history of so many countries. Perhaps nothing is more curious in the revelations as to the most ancient cave-men than that they confirm the old belief that there were 'giants in those days.'



and:


> Another point which strikes us in reading the descriptions, and which deserves the attention of those who have access to the skeletons, is the indication which they seem to present of an extreme longevity. The massive proportions of the body, the great development of the muscular processes, the extreme wearing of the teeth among a people who predominantly lived on flesh and not on grain, the obliteration of the sutures of the skull, along with indications of slow ossification of the ends of the long bones, point in this direction, and seem to indicate a slow maturity and great length of life in this most primitive race.
> 
> The picture would be incomplete did we not add that in France and Belgium, in the immediately succeeding or reindeer age, these gigantic and magnificent men seem to have been superseded by a feebler race of smaller stature and with shorter heads;



I guess that would be us.

Time Team also helps us appreciate the difficulties of separating the Iron Age from the civilised Roman Age:





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_Source: __Time Team S09 Ep02_

Have you noticed it's difficult to separate pre-Roman from Roman? And Roman from post-Roman? (Third video down, captioned: _You say 'Roman', I say 'Norman'._)

Time Team also shows us the problems associated with lead-lined coffins - as mentioned in post-104407 (lead-lined coffins under Normanton church) and post-105045 (lead-lined coffins under Broadhembury church).

Even when the coffins are - allegedly - 2,000 years old:





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_"We've got all of those, we came prepared."  Source: __Time Team S09 Ep02_

Except for the radiation meter.

Naturally, Time Team couldn't get into the mysteries of Ancaster's geomorphology. Specifically, the mysteries around:

What cut 'the Ancaster Gap' from the western edge of Lincolnshire's limestone edge toward Sleaford in the east.
Which rivers flowed through it and when.

_The riverless Ancaster Gap. Source:  Lincolnshire - Gaps and More Gaps_​
If you can bring yourself to read a geology paper, make it Allen Straw's: _Lincolnshire - Gaps and More Gaps_. Like many of Straw's papers, it's funny. It's even funnier when you read between its lines.


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## feralimal (Nov 26, 2021)

Great work @usselo!!

What a find re the big bone.  'Osteoarcheologist' - Margaret Cox - needs a knock on her head with it..  Why can't she say what she sees?!

Proving my suspicions re her well-trained intellect, she then pops up to say there is a 'health and safety' issue because of the 'body _liquor_' from a body that's been in a coffin they think has been buried for 2000 years!  Ludicrous!

*Liquor*... there's a term.  Perhaps we have forgotten but before fish and chips (1860) in England the national fast food was pie and mash (1800).  Its served with liquor.  Here's a write up + excerpt:
Pie and Mash | The history of London pie mash and liquor


> The main dish today is pie, mash and liquor. This is a baked minced beef pie with mashed potato. Liquor is unique to pie and mash shops who all claim to have their very own secret recipe for the green parsley gravy.



Think Sweeney Todd: Sweeney Todd - Wikipedia


> In the original version of the tale, Todd is a barber who dispatches his victims by pulling a lever as they sit in his barber chair. His victims fall backward down a revolving trap door into the basement of his shop, generally causing them to break their necks or skulls. In case they are alive, Todd goes to the basement and "polishes them off" (slitting their throats with his straight razor). In some adaptations, the murdering process is reversed, with Todd slitting his customers' throats before dispatching them *into the basement* through the revolving trap door. After Todd has robbed his dead victims of their goods, Mrs. Lovett, his partner in crime (in some later versions, his friend and/or lover), assists him in disposing of the bodies by *baking their flesh into meat pies* and selling them to the unsuspecting customers of her pie shop. Todd's barber shop is situated at 186 Fleet Street, London, *next to St. Dunstan's church*, and is connected to Mrs. Lovett's pie shop in nearby Bell Yard by means of an *underground passage*. In most versions of the story, he and Mrs. Lovett hire an unwitting *orphan boy*, Tobias Ragg, to serve the pies to customers.


...does the orphan serve the pies to the _witting_ customers?

Anyway, I reckon liquor == gravy.  Perhaps gravy made from the blood of the animal.

Diving a bit more into etymology of the term - liquor | Etymology, origin and meaning of liquor by etymonline


> liquor (n.)
> 
> c. 1200, likur "any matter in a liquid state, a liquid or fluid substance," from Old French licor "fluid, liquid; sap; oil" (12c., Modern French liqueur), from Latin liquorem (nominative liquor) "a liquid, liquor; *wine*; the sea," originally "liquidity, fluidity," from liquere "be fluid, liquid" (see liquid (adj.)).
> Narrowed sense of "*fermented* or distilled drink" (especially *wine*) first recorded c. 1300; the broader sense seems to have been obsolete from c. 1700. As long as liquor is in him was a Middle English expression, "as long as he is alive," that is, "as long as he has a drop of blood left." The form in Modern English has been assimilated to Latin, but the old pronunciation persists.
> ...



_"As long as liquor is in him was a Middle English expression, "as long as he is alive," that is, "as long as he has a drop of blood left.""_

Gosh - does that tie up a few loose ends?

@usselo you have mentioned chewmans as a fermented drink.  Well, 'fermentation' is in the etymology.  I am saying that there may be a case that liquor is gravy from the blood of an animal too.  We also have the alcoholic reference, which takes me take to an earlier post where you were considering the religious side of things - 'do this in remembrance of me, eat my body, and drink my blood'.


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## usselo (Nov 28, 2021)

feralimal said:


> *Liquor*... there's a term.  Perhaps we have forgotten but before fish and chips (1860) in England the national fast food was pie and mash (1800).  Its served with liquor.  Here's a write up + excerpt:
> Pie and Mash | The history of London pie mash and liquor
> 
> Anyway, I reckon liquor == gravy.  Perhaps gravy made from the blood of the animal.
> ...


Oh yes, nice catches! Dismissed as stories and aphorisms. But only so long as there is no physical evidence.

Oracle posted about Paracelsus claiming blood was good to drink. And 'liquor' may be what Selenadia described as fermented, ionised blood. Unfortunately, I couldn't make enough sense of the English translation to understand how the ionisation bit was done. Or why.

I used 'chewmans' as a pun to soften up on the repeated use of terms like 'edible humans', rather than as a word specificly for fermented blood.


feralimal said:


> Great work @usselo!!


Thanks. That post was a lot of work. Mostly spent quarrying information, though the toughest part was refining it; cutting the drafts right down until presentable. All very enjoyable to do. But discussion of its many implications had to be left out. Five of them:

Staveley's history. And proximity to a place symbolically associated with baton-wielding horse-riders.
How did the iron-ore get into these rocks in the first place?
The New Forest (Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images). Its story always felt unlikely. Now, perhaps we have an adult explanation for it?
Assuming the processing equipment moved until the work was completed, there would have been a final place for processing. Possibly where the kit was dismantled or destroyed. Where? I'd investigate just beyond the north-west edge of the Brecks. Not far from Narborough bone mill (Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images).
Perhaps the quarrying conjecture gives us clues about why the south-eastern fen boundary coincides with hills on the eastern coast of the Wash. Perhaps quarrying was interrupted. See the BGS 'superficial geology' map in the 'English Civil War'-focused post-104000.





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_"Or was there ever a... grand plan?" Source: __Talking Landscapes: The Fens_



feralimal said:


> What a find re the big bone.  'Osteoarcheologist' - Margaret Cox - needs a knock on her head with it..  Why can't she say what she sees?!
> 
> Proving my suspicions re her well-trained intellect, she then pops up to say there is a 'health and safety' issue because of the 'body _liquor_' from a body that's been in a coffin they think has been buried for 2000 years!  Ludicrous!



Yeah, I agree this dissonant moment - and others in that show - are significant. Both in terms of what the presenters say, and what they do. And, just as importantly, for how you react. Here's a really good example from the same Time Team 'Ancaster' show:





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_It's just body-talk. Source: __Time Team 'Ancaster' S09 Ep02_

Shows often include visual humour. But I don't think her big shrug is a joke or an accident. Nor the fade-out that follows it. Their editing, not mine. I suspect the fade-out was a conscious editing decision, designed to give viewers time to let her body language sink in. A straight cut to the next scene would not have allowed that.

IIRC, about 60% of British skeletons are found 'disarticulated' or in 'disarray'. In this scene, the skeletons are disarticulated and mixed with animal bones. I can think of two life outcomes likely to produce that result:

Encountering catastrophe
Becoming lunch
But look at the tray of bones containing the jaw at the start of the clip. Look at the front of the tray in that scene before you play it. It's a bit obscured by the player controls. We already know there is a size 'dissonance'. But remember Mark Passio's presentation in your post-104651? His presentation included a slide to contrast the strength of primate bones with thin-walled human bones...

This show was assembled with care. It sows seeds and uses careful editing to help the seeds settle into place

Here's another example of what I think is Time Team sowing seeds.  IIRC, we touched on this video shot in SH 1.0:





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_Coastal rock cut. Source: __Time Team: Britain's Drowned World_

I don't know how to add highlight circles to mp4 clips yet. You'll have to look carefully for the large saw-cut gradually revealed before the scene ends. This shot was repeated twice, possibly three times, in that episode. Ostensibly for the visual pretties, there being no other overt explanation for it. You may see other saw cuts if you look carefully.

One day, in some brains, the seeds sown in these shows may find conditions are suitable for germination. I think Michael Portillo's Great Railway Journeys series are full of this too, though it is less obvious. I'm sure Vance Packard would approve of both shows.

But let's just assume the above is pure speculation. I mean: seriously, why would anyone conspire to educate us via enhanced dissonance? 

So then, let's turn to the most important aspect: how you reacted. Your sense of exasperation at Dr Cox's statement...

Seeing the cognitive dissonance is one thing; feeling traces of exasperation at it is another. Perhaps the trace of exasperation is caused by a germinating seed pushing for growing room in the otherwise well-tended, orderly soil of your mind.





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_From frown to lotus blossom. Source: __I, Pet Goat II, 2012_

Perhaps the girl's frown shows her exasperation when her trust in The Narrative begins to break down. The sequence may show her loss of trust, followed by loss of loyalty as she discards the apple of 'received wisdom'. I would guess any genuine user of this board is well into the germination stage (germination being possibly more analogous to becoming a level 101 conspiracy theorist). So, pursuing the germination analogy, maybe your exasperation is caused by your own wisdom coming into blossom and searching for light. That is, looking for integrity from expert speakers and respect from them for your ability to think.

OK, let's look at a more conventional explanation. Let's play with the idea that Dr Cox has herself been put into the same position this girl is in but has decided to play along with the narrative.

Often discussed in the Covid and forged document threads - though not often named - is 'trust'. Trust, and what occurs as trust breaks down. I don't think the breakdown is very simple at all. How would Dr Cox's break-up with the system look as her trust unravelled?

Consider the 'Exalting Fabricant in the Abbatoir' scene:





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_"Welcome! Take a seat!". Source: Cloud Atlas, 2012_

And consider this scene:





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_"What is that for?" Source: __No Country for Old Men, 2007_

Ask yourself: does the fabricant trust the people who are managing her?

In the second clip, does the man trust the 'cop'?

The second clip shows us a sequence where trust is breaking down. That is why the driver asks: "What is that for?" He suspects its purpose is something directed at him. But it remains unexplained and is beyond his own capacity to figure out in the time he has. We see him becoming suspicious.

But why don't we see an abrupt shift to 'Flight'? Why does he comply right up to the very end, as the situation created by 'Authority' becomes increasingly unusual?

I suggest it is because his loyalty loop is in play.

Summarised, two kinds of vulnerability are being demonstrated:

Clip 1: Misplaced trust
Clip 2: Breakdown of trust, accompanied by a high-contrast (AKA low information-density) situation, which triggers 'the loyalty loop'.
As you can imagine, I've been paying attention to possible loyalty loops since they came up in the thread (and since black and white authority flagging came up in the Clown thread). I'm fairly sure loyalty loops are more likely to operate (or 'trip') when the human is faced with stark contrasts. Ranging from colour contrasts (black and white, or blue and yellow) to statements framing the situation as "It's us or them". Or in this case: "Comply."

Were the car driver even given a fake explanation of the matador (it's an abattoir's cattle stunning tool), the situation would become nuanced. He could weigh the explanation and make a judgement call. But absent any explanation, he simply complies. It's the absence of information that trips his loyalty loop. In a high-contrast situation - comply or run - his loyalty loop trips in and offers him 'comply' as the least-risk choice.

Instead of requiring a complex password or special powers, you simply need to:

signal 'authority' (preferably augmented with contrasting colours), then
*reduce* the information available
This combination triggers 'the loyalty loop' and you achieve the compliance you want.

Very elegant. The loyalty loop's design is efficient, pragmatic and, to me, looks programmatic. It resembles a deliberately designed vulnerability. In programmer's jargon - a 'back-door'.

This suggests to me that Dr Cox is in an unstressed, low-contrast position. Either she:

doesn't realise, or
does realise and has had time to assess the nuances of her situation. And concluded the rewards are worth playing along for.
The rewards would be the money, the glamour, the fame of having her motives analysed on boards populated only by well-paid Information Operations staff and a mica-thin slice of the narratively-contaminated.

It seems I've come back to my first conjecture. Cox knows the presentation is dissonant. In which case, there are reasons for the dissonance and her co-operation with its production. Perhaps it's all about achieving this moment in human development:





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_Warning: this audio is loud. Source: __2001 A Space Odyssey, 1968_

Given the expense of sowing these 'seeds of dissonance', logic tells us 'germination' and 'dissonance development' will be monitored.

Without being told where monitoring is located, could 'dissonants' find it if they looked?

Possibly. Possibly by watching body language.

What should be present but isn't, is often very significant. What was present, but no longer is, is also often very significant. Iron-bearing sandstone and iron-free sand...

I paid more attention to the 'quarried Wash' conjecture after noticing earlier evidence had 'become unavailable'.

Possibly, the content's disappearance was body language.

Previously publicly-visible content from post-102939 in the Clowns thread has also 'become unavailable':


_Body language. Source: Your local monitoring team_​
Just to be clear, that content was hosted on - and removed from - Odysee's servers, not Stolen History.net's servers.

What might need to be hidden?
Why?
By whom?
What protocols would need to be in place to catch and communicate inconvenient interpretations of publicly-available material?
What protocols would need to be in place to continuously improve the effectiveness of existing protocols?
What do time delays between likely awareness and consequent action tell us about routes and boundaries within the communicating institutions?
Etc, etc, usw, usw.
The Internet is full of conversation. It is also full of body language.

The body language is often louder than the conversation.





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_Warning: this audio is quiet. Source: __Next, 2007_


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## usselo (Dec 4, 2021)

(Note: I got some feedback that my Google links are not working correctly. I think this relates to the Google Streetmaps links sometimes returning black images. It happens where there is no nearby Google Streetview image for the location (typically rural sites). I've removed them from this post. If you see other problems, please let me know.)

This post follows up Quarried Hunstanton Part 1: Rock Cuts   which - when its main images went missing - led to Quarried Hunstanton Part 2: Tailings. Currently its images are reinstated. Which means evidence for one of my claims about missing evidence is... missing. 

This post is 'Quarried Hunstanton Part 3: Refining Clues'.



usselo said:


> But discussion of its many implications had to be left out. Five of them:
> 
> Staveley's history. And proximity to a place symbolically associated with baton-wielding horse-riders.
> How did the iron-ore get into these rocks in the first place?
> ...



Item four seems worthwhile so, looking for evidence, I started with these assumptions:

The Brecks map in Quarried Hunstanton Part 2: Tailings shows sand tailings from iron-ore refining.
The tailings are fanned out to the south-east, as if pushed away from an initial dumping area in the north-west.
Refining infrastructure, waste disposal infrastructure and staff facilities would likely have been sited between the dumping area and the Hunstanton quarrying site to the north. Because it's central to both operations. So where else would make sense?
Therefore, supporting physical evidence and folklore evidence might be traceable in that area.

_ Sophisticated plotting identifies a candidate location._​
Nice to see on first pass that the two blue lines cross each other close to the previously discussed Narborough Bone Mill (Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images). Why nice to see? Because food waste and dead staff were upcycled.


_Gratuitous map proves Grimston and Narborough are close. Source: Google Maps_​
Mapped the cross on to Google Maps and looked around. There the ground evidence, historical and folklore evidence fairly jumped out. Each piece of found evidence comes with a batch of implications for understanding the evidence's role in the refining process, as well as clues to other aspects of the process. And - of course - for interpreting similar evidence found elsewhere. A set of keys, any one of which may begin to unlock the history of other places.

The lines cross, more or less, at the village of Grimston (Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images) seven miles north of Narborough. 'Grim' = 'Devil' in folklore. In England, 'Grim' is credited with landscape modification: typically ditches, dykes, mounds. With building ditches and mounds in which 'soldiers killed in a war are buried'. Compare with Reach, Cambridgeshire - location of the '*A Supernatural Battle South of Elloi' *account from post-104000. Note also Fleam Dyke's uninvestigated bodies. Perhaps some of the obsolete workforce were ploughed under.

Hidden East Anglia doesn't have much Grimston folklore but does have some and some more. That's OK: we're looking at an area, not a point.

Grimston also offers physical clues. Per this decaying page:


> The Roman Villa, 200 yards West of the church
> When it was excavated, it was the first Villa found in Norfolk. (My note: Ie it was easy to find when people explored)
> But then the found a villa every few miles along the old road, at Gayton Thorpe, Well Hall, Congham, Flitcham, West Newton and Appleton.




_Roman villas on the old road. Yellow marks Narborough._​Are we looking at upper management's housing strung along the route between quarry, refinery and tailings dump? Check if the route is definitely part of Peddar's Way.

Near Grimston is Pott Row (Google Maps), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images). Formerly known for making pottery often found in Scandinavia. Check: is this made from iron-rich clay? If so, was the clay a refinery side-product? (Staveley exported iron-rich clay pottery according to Thomas Pennant's A Tour of Scotland. Replacing a business formerly dominated by, presumably, recently-flooded Holland or Dogger). Also if so, was the refining up-stream (east) of Pott Row? And did the refining process involve lots of water and, eventually, an iron-rich clay runoff? Does this explain Grimes Graves' clay layers? Do we now have a partial explanation for Ringstead Downs (Google Maps), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images) and the similar-looking 'spillways' in the Lincolnshire Wolds? Which also sit close to iron-bearing sandstone and chalks.

The waterways around here show engineering. Lots of small round ponds (ecclesiastical ponds tend to be long and thin) and lots of streams. Examples:

Odd pond 1 (Google Maps), (OpenStreetMap)​
Odd pond 2 (Google Maps), (OpenStreetMap)​
Odd pond 3 (Google Maps), (OpenStreetMap)​
Odd pond 4 (Google Maps), (OpenStreetMap)​
Odd pond 5 (Google Maps), (OpenStreetMap)​
Odd pond 5 (Google Maps), (OpenStreetMap)​
Odd pond 6 (Google Maps), (OpenStreetMap)​
Odd pond 7 (Google Maps), (OpenStreetMap)​
There are also many apparent moated house sites. Rectangular islands. Just a sample:

Moated House Site 1 (Google Maps), (OpenStreetMap)​
Moated House Site 2 (Google Maps), (OpenStreetMap)​
Moated House Site 3 (Google Maps), (OpenStreetMap)​
Scan the map for these examples and the area they are in. You can see this is a heavily engineered landscape. This looks like water management but for different goals than the creation of the spillways.

Mid way between Grimston and Narborough is Gayton and just off to the east, Gayton Thorpe. Besides all the usual English village IHASFEMR clues (the church, the old chapel, the inn, the lone surviving butcher shop) we have Lime Kiln Road, which presumably ends where the kilns were: (Google Maps), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images).

And we also have the large 'The Old Workhouse' stuck way out in the country just where I wouldn't expect: (Google Maps), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images).

A possible implication of the oddly located large workhouse and the 'Gayton' names is that these are the human workers' living areas. The 'Gay' may indicate the 'Hoi'  as in 'Hoi Polloi' or 'Oik', or possibly 'Goy'. Plus a workhouse structure built to provide employment once they began to survive childhood. Just like the Williamson Tunnels and many other post 18th century structures.

We also have the two odd lanes that part, and then go more or less nowhere. But perhaps they are the remains of tracks around the edge of the (conjectured) tailings dump at the north-east end of the Brecks. The area I mean is here: (Google Maps), (OpenStreetMap). If correct, this is where tailings were initially delivered before being spread out in the Brecks.

So that's a first pass analysis based on looking at the evidence in the Grimston area. Obviously each item throws up plenty to investigate and the wider area could also be examined for contradicting or supporting evidence.

For more evidence on the timing, we also have evidence that the Fens flooded around the time of the Bronze Age. I don't buy the dating but I buy the possible correlations between the quarrying out of that band of ironstone, the alleged start of Grimes Graves, and of the fens flooding:





Your browser is not able to display this video.



_"The Fens were dry?" Source: __Talking Landscapes: The Fens_

Two other observations...

I get the sense there may be a symbolic link between places connected with the start of eastern England's Industrial Revolution and its end. Possibly a link symbolising the introduction of 'policy' and, perhaps, the replacement of 'policy' with something else. It's to do with timing and is not quick to explain with text so I'll just present images, links and audio:

Familiarity with Russian discussion of the mysteries of St Petersburg's sword or baton-bearing horse-riders is required for the first image. It's from Russian blogger ZigZag's The Bronze Horseman: (English translation):

​
An image from TC Lethbridge's attempt to map and excavate the Wandlebury hill figures near Fleam Dyke (mentioned above). I suspect they were a lot younger than Lethbridge thought (or said he thought):
​
And an image, with discussion, from Orgreave - ten miles away from Staveley. It's from 18 June 1984:




Your browser is not able to display this video.



_End of the Miners' Strike Industrial Revolution 1.0. Source: __BBC Woman's Hour via Youtube_

The quotes about Nocton and Blankney hall parties in _post-104455_ came from Douglas Craven-Hodgson's _Revelations of an Imp_, via Nocton Hall - Revelations of an Imp - Chapter 1_._ I experienced the Imp's sense of humour at work again when I searched for the location of Grimston's Roman Villa at (Google Maps), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images).

It's too personal for a public board but I'm sure it was deliberate and I am still laughing at it.


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## usselo (Dec 5, 2021)

usselo said:


> Until a 1014 flood, the Witham entered the Wash via Elloi's large Bicker Haven sea harbour. Or so Wikipedia's authors allege. It lay to the west of Swineshead.
> 
> But Byng described being shown where one of the harbour's inner navigation marks had stood - before its owner sold it for timber:
> 
> ...


A bit more about Swineshead:

_Village centre. Date unknown. __Source_​
Camera seems to have been positioned about here: (Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images).

Observations:

Seemingly, a tall policeman in a top hat. Wearing a medallion or badge on a chain or fixed low on tunic. See left hand of baton-wielding entity in Wandlebury hill figures image above. Is it possible the Wandlebury entity is holding a badge pinned to its clothing. Thrusting it forward as if to say: "I have the authority"?​
The rest are children, adolescents and possibly teenagers. I don't see an obviously older adult in the scene.​
The arched doorways on the right are typical east Midlands/east Anglian. But today the tops would be glassed in (as these now are) or boxed in with ply.​
White stone-looking structures behind the people. Structures possibly similar to the bases in this image:​


_Two cross bases, as there still are today. __Source_​
I wonder if the planks around the base are to protect recent cement mortar. If so, why no adult builders in the image? Maybe the adult builders had to rush back to the fields to sow and hoe. 

This image reminds me of the image of Deeping St James' jail-cross from post-102177:




Back to Swineshead:


_Which cross is this? When? __Source_​It may be worth clicking on the Google Maps link, dragging the yellow man to this location and having a look at the cross bases. This village used to be on the edge of Bicker Haven harbour. It struck me that the cross bases and the barely discernible, low structures in the Swineshead policeman image above may be the remains of bases for the columns of a classical-style building.

There are accounts of hollow columns in churches. Which usually have underground access. A scenario could be:

that some villages are built on the surviving bases of classical buildings​
later, market cross were sometimes sited on the stump base of one of the columns, typically a column with underground access.​
This would explain tunnels under 'war memorials' like Grants Gardens, Liverpool, and in Fowlmere, Cambridgeshire.

Dates would be a useful for these images. It might help date the transition from short human lifespans to lifespans that included the prospect of surviving adulthood. 

The Wandlebury image above and the Swineshead policeman images may offer us a scenario that goes something like this:

The Wandlebury hill figures were cut near old chalk mines. It's possible the image depicts miners being hurried along by a supervisor. If we accept the IHASFEMR proposition that mining was primarily a child's occupation, then we may be looking at a grim visual protest at being harried by an entity with a sword or a baton. Not a depiction of a prehistoric moon goddess cult but a straightforward political protest scraped out of the chalk by children who knew how to scrape chalk. That might explain why it was so strangely suppressed when rediscovered in the 1960s.
Looking at the etymology, some towns were run by mayors, backed by their second in command: the sheriff. In Britain, we tend not to associate 'police' with 'sheriff'. Where a sheriff exists, it is seen as a political role. But perhaps the badge-wearing sheriff of the America's (alleged) Wild West and the medallion-wearing English major were closer together in late 18th Century/early 19th Century Britain.
Perhaps these images show us a moment in smaller towns and villages where two groups were transitioning to different roles at the same time. Something like:
miners -> minors
majors -> mayors

Along with physical tokens of authority - the badge, the medallion on a chain, the high-viz clothing.
But it's just a guess...


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## Jd755 (Dec 5, 2021)

FWIW
Here are my observations on your first image.
There are  adults in the image. The police officer and a dark figure to the left of the pub door, another dark figure adjacent to the window, immediately in front of the dark figures are two adults playing the same game as the kids possibly marbles or jacks? and a further two in line in white jackets/shirts also playing a game.
The police officer appears completely incongruous with the image to his right and completely incongruous with the people to his left who in turn are completely incongruous to the other people in the photograph.
The people to the police officers right are out of scale with everything else in the photograph with the exception of the crouching kids.
The person standing nearest to the police officer appears to be wearing a bowler which none of the other kids are which suggests he is in fact an adult and b extraction so is his companion both of whom are as close to the camera as the police officer so should be of similar scale.
By contrast the figure leaving the shop in the background is congruous with the shop doorway for scale and the other adults outside the pub.
See screenshot



We presume police officer from his clothing but he could easily be a teacher and the kids his class. There appears to be but one girl amongst them so I wonder if there is a school nearby or school house and the only playground is this square in front of the pub.

The pair of windows over the shop seem completely out of scale with the shop frontage in scale with the windows on the house and yet different in scale to the pub which I would suggest predates the house and shop by a number of years. I would also suggest the pub building is of rubble wall construction not brick like the shop and house which is why it is rendered for weather proofing and whitewashed. Was it a coaching inn at one point prior to the houses construction?

I cannot fathom what the gain is by inserting that odd pair of figures perhaps the photographer was testing his cut and paste skills but it does appear to have been poorly done or perhaps I have it wrong and am surmising from the low quality scan and the original image wherever it is would reveal all.
In your second image those planks are too long to be used as seating atop the stone steps on the plinth of the cross. My guess would be its a market cross and it is being prepared for a market in winter or autumn. 




The podium by the flagpole appears to be of stone too though it is hard to tell. Alongside it is an iron railing and on the opposite side what appears to be knock down seating or tables. I would guess the auctioneer stands on the podium above the crowds head height and his spotters on the next step down so to ensure all bids are noticed.
Neither road nor square appears to be surfaced with anything more than gravel.


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## usselo (Dec 5, 2021)

kd-755 said:


> FWIW
> Here are my observations on your first image.
> There are  adults in the image. The police officer and a dark figure to the left of the pub door, another dark figure adjacent to the window, immediately in front of the dark figures are two adults playing the same game as the kids possibly marbles or jacks? and a further two in line in white jackets/shirts also playing a game.
> The police officer appears completely incongruous with the image to his right and completely incongruous with the people to his left who in turn are completely incongruous to the other people in the photograph.
> ...


Thanks for the analysis. I see what you mean about the two small figures in front of the shop. The one closest to the 'authority figure' looks like a miniaturised white-bearded man.

We discussed the bowler hat here too. I don't think it is a bowler though I was outnumbered here.

The Wheatsheaf was a coaching inn according to Lincolnshire Life:


> The history of the Georgian Wheatsheaf Hotel, which is located in the Market Place, has been traced back to the early 1820s, when coaches would stop there to pick up a guide to lead them over the boggy terrain to Spalding or Sleaford, depending on their direction. The land had yet to be fully drained and strangers would easily lose their way. Later on, coaches would also leave their mailbags at the Wheatsheaf and it was from here that villagers would collect their letters – in effect the hotel was Swineshead’s first Post Office.


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## Jd755 (Dec 5, 2021)

Note to self don't be lazy and click through image albums first,

The stocks on the market square



Other views of the Wheatsheaf show perspective is a bugger!


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## usselo (Dec 5, 2021)

kd-755 said:


> Note to self don't be lazy and click through image albums first,


 Yeah, amazing how data from different times and different channels weaves together in unexpected ways when you're researching this stuff. Been there, got the t-shirt.


kd-755 said:


> The stocks on the market square
> View attachment 14685​
> Other views of the Wheatsheaf show perspective is a bugger!
> 
> ...


We should probably clarify for anyone who doesn't look at the links, that the 'cross' in the image immediately above is not the same one as in the preceding three images. It's the new one built next to it.

Could even be that some evidence is created in real time. Another good reason to prioritise research on physical evidence over documentary and media.


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## Jd755 (Dec 5, 2021)

usselo said:


> We should probably clarify for anyone who doesn't look at the links, that the 'cross' in the image immediately above is not the same one as in the preceding three images


No it looks to me to be the same one in with the kids sitting on the planks on the steps. Save the disappearance of the long house to the right of the shop.  Here it is towards the end of the construction or the installation of the paving around it as evidenced by its location in relation to the stocks.




​And here it is today. The shop front has expanded but everything else looks to be the same as the photograph with the police officer in it and the one with the kids on the steps. Pehaps, only perhaps the kids on the steps photo was taken not long after the paving was laid and is therefore contemporary to the image above?



I must say that although B&W photos romanticise things to a degree the influence of the car culture on Swineshead has not done it any favours.


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## usselo (Dec 5, 2021)

kd-755 said:


> No it looks to me to be the same one in with the kids sitting on the planks on the steps. Save the disappearance of the long house to the right of the shop.  Here it is towards the end of the construction or the installation of the paving around it as evidenced by its location in relation to the stocks.
> 
> View attachment 14690​And here it is today. The shop front has expanded but everything else looks to be the same as the photograph with the police officer in it and the one with the kids on the steps. Pehaps, only perhaps the kids on the steps photo was taken not long after the paving was laid and is therefore contemporary to the image above?
> View attachment 14691​
> ...


Part of the challenge is that I talked about crosses, when what I really mean is 'a cross and a possible former cross base'. That may be enough to clear things up  But if not, I'm interested to hear how this works:

Across the range of B&W and colour photos, I see two 'crossy' base structures and a set of stocks. Using Google Maps, I get their coordinates as:

New cross: (Google Maps), (OpenStreetMap)
Possible former cross base: (Google Maps), (OpenStreetMap)
Stocks location: (Google Maps), (OpenStreetMap)
Mapping those labels and coordinates to the images posted before I commented about clarification:


Possible former cross base and stocks location


Possible former cross base


I think this is also the 'Possible former cross base'


New cross. Possible former cross base to right, hidden by hedge.


New cross


Possible former cross base centre-ish left; new cross base off-right​Hopefully, I've provided the clarification I thought might be needed. What do you think?


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## Jd755 (Dec 5, 2021)

Aah I see what you are saying. The stocks or rather the stones behind them which I said were likely for the auctioneer to be stood on during an auction you are arguing they are the base of a former market cross? 
My take on that is the stones behind the stocks look to me to be well worn down presumably from use. Given the market square is or rather was a market and the Wheatsheaf pub was a coaching in it would seem highly likely they were used frequently enough to be worn away. Although not knowing the native stone of the area does throw some doubt into the mix but that wear is often seen on old stone steps all over the places I have visited on these islands.
Perhaps there was originally a wooden market cross in the midst of the stones or even a wooden signpost as clearly signage would be of use to people travelling through by cart, private coach horse of foot and possibly for those driving animals to markets.
An outside bet is a gibbet of some sorts given the proximity of the stocks to the stones. Certainly someone placed in the stocks for whatever reason with a gibbet rising above them would more often than not enable said miscreant to 'see the error of their ways' or 'contemplate their finality' when all 'are abed' and the night closes in, so too speak.

For myself whatever the purpose of the stones behind the stocks were originally it must have been popular going off of the wear. I wonder which war the so called War Memorial commemorates?
My guess would be WW1 as it seems that only then did the glorification of war by memorial seems to have taken hold. Indeed the War memorials round here do not predate WW1.
Maybe that was when the cross we see today was first erected and prior to that there was the simple wooden or possibly stone market cross sat on top of the stocks stones.

In any case I really do not think we today can comprehend what a busy market square looked like back in the day. Not only would it be used for markets but also all manner of festivals fairs and get togethers in numbers we cannot imagine in our refined politically correct health and safety/insurance restricted existence.
I am just about old enough to have experienced some of these events but they were well on the wane and a fraction of the number and scale they were when my grandfather was a boy prior to WW1.


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## usselo (Dec 8, 2021)

kd-755 said:


> Aah I see what you are saying. The stocks or rather the stones behind them which I said were likely for the auctioneer to be stood on during an auction you are arguing they are the base of a former market cross?
> 
> For myself whatever the purpose of the stones behind the stocks were originally it must have been popular going off of the wear. I wonder which war the so called War Memorial commemorates?



In the past, arguing hasn't proven a very effective way to express my ideas. Especially when I'm unsure of the evidence and my logic. Being funny seems to get people's attention. Having - at last - realised this, I'm working on being funny intentionally. So I'll proceed in that vein.

You suggested the steps may have been an auctioneer's stump and/or the base a gibbet. But perhaps, like me, you are still wondering:


> What is that? What is that for?


It would be in the spirit of the IHASFEMR thread to answer with shorthand like:



> Yes, it may well have been for auctioneering. Cattle -> chattel -> the Mayor of Casterbridge's wife...



But given the difficulties we face when trying to recover so much missing history, a different approach might help with this one. It's just possible that some irrelevant-seeming thought might prove very relevant to our recovering the real purpose of those Swineshead steps. And perhaps to recovering missing parts of the history of technology.

I'd also guess the memorial commemorates WWI. I'll visit Swineshead and report back. And I think you are completely correct to highlight the wear on the steps. In fact you could have taken the words right out of my mouth. Step wear on old structures is possibly a useful clue to solving one of Life's Big Questions: for how long was chewmanity around before mudflood's complex mother-catastrophe changed things? I'll take a straight edge to see if I can measure the step wear. I think 'depth of wear (millimetres)' would equal something like:

The product of:​'Variable A: traffic level'​x​'Variable B: length of time in use'​x​'Factor C: type of footwear' (hobnails or leather)​x​'Factor D: weight of average step-user'.​
I used to know a pharmaceutical industry statistician who could take a list of measurements for quantities like 'depth of wear (millimetres)', then derive from it the value of each of its individual factors. A skill that looked like magic to me. I think she's busy promoting vaccines now.

I hadn't thought of the intimidatory nature of having a gibbet looming over the stocks. It's a very good point. Nevertheless, I still think there may be more to those worn steps than a well-used gibbet. And to the stocks. However, for the moment I'll leave the stocks out and take a swing at the gibbet:

*Gibbet*:

gallows
an upright post with a projecting arm for hanging the bodies of executed criminals as a warning
I question the narrative around gibbets and the rest of the hangman's tool-set. Along with hanging as a useful method of execution. I accept that it's showy. And, as the video captioned '_Freshly cut ingredients, attractively presented_' in post-101535 demonstrates, showy is effective. Showy draws happy, expectant crowds. I also accept that still-warm - perhaps still jerking - bodies may have been slit open; their blood drained and sold as 'merch' at the end of the show.

But I suspect hanging may - of all things - be the most cargo cult-ish of all our cargo cults. In particular, the hangman's knot has always puzzled me. It's over the top. It is uses a lot of rope to fashion a Rolls Royce among knots. Why do it? When hanging was allegedly as common as a trip to Tesco, why roll out the Roller? A Ford Fiesta would be good enough and weigh less on the rope budget.

I suspect we've been strung along and that real hangings used the scaffold knot. It has a slightly higher failure rate - but not much higher - and fatigues less rope. Its failures might not be a bad thing. Failures - especially sporadic and unpredictable failures - are a guaranteed crowd pleaser. They are the casino's business model. Handled appropriately, every failure could be turned into viral marketing for your gibbet.

If you really wanted to hang people as a lesson or a spectacle - or both - you wouldn't use thick rope. It's too valuable. You'd use the same materials, techniques and mind-set used for snares. Sinew and cord so thin it can barely be seen. Perhaps later into the Industrial Revolution you'd switch to the thinnest viable piano wire. You'd plan for it, equip for it, and rehearse it over and over again. You would use technology to enhance the drama until the visual severity of a well-executed hanging was indistinguishable from magic.

I could be wrong. Maybe it's the showman in me that thinks this way. Perhaps I should get a life. I do need to hang out more.

I don't want to underplay the important clue that is the hangman's knot. I am not claiming it is merely a 'show' knot. I think the hangman's knot could unravel the very real mystery of gibbets. A cargo cult clue we can use to ensnare this thoroughly-sanitised aspect of chewman history and splatter it with Truth.

Another weird aspect of gibbets is their location. Often way out of the village; often on a hill. Why? I get why you'd put them where the toiling peasants could see them. But if your slaves really have such poor memories, why not site the gibbet amid their hovels? Where everyone can see its gruesome payload every time they check the weather? Indeed, use it to check the weather.

Well, that is - of course - the case at Swineshead. And, as you noted, the Swineshead gibbet is close to a coaching inn. This is another clue to one of its real, original functions. I'll come back to this once I've finished cleaning our minds of mainstream nonsense about how hangings worked.

A few years ago, one of the Sunday newspapers ran an article that described - in loving detail - the process of hanging. The journalist dangled in front of his readers a systematic and thorough preparation process ideally suited to the sensitivities of 20th Century England. It included:

Inspection of the gallows' integrity.
Inspection of the rope's integrity.
Creation of the perfect noose and knot combination.
An artisanal - yet perfect - assessment of the required drop.
Followed - about 15 minutes later - by the start of a quite astonishing clean-up process.
The last two parts of cleanup were:

Careful washing of every single part of the corpse and its soiled crevices.
Placing the now perfectly clean body in a pit of quicklime, then covering it - reverently of course - with shovel-loads more quicklime.
I expect a human body would achieve peak-productivity in such pre-mortem moments. Mine would. But the described level of care went far beyond even today's Health and Safety biohazard handling requirements. Especially for bodies about to be transformed into miniatures of the Chilterns.

It brought me up with a jerk.

I thought:

Either this journalist is a pervert (this was in the Sunday Observer), or
Those Pierrepoint boys had a side-line going.

_Albert Pierrepoint. __Source_​
When I checked Wikipedia's Albert Pierrepoint page, I saw my second fear confirmed:


> an English hangman who executed between 435 and 600 people in a 25-year career that ended in 1956.



What kind of record-keeping is that?

To my ever-lasting regret, I was so caught up in this revelation, I forgot to check Wikipedia's page about the journalist. Nevertheless, that article spawned IHASFEMR. It conceived the first thought - the neuronal equivalent of first cell division.

I thought: perhaps the Pierrepoints - aided by the British State - were selling corpses to medical universities. It's not unthinkable: the State specifically formalised that sideline on 22 May, 2020. But, given the stories you hear about Dennis Nielson and all that, I began to wonder if the Pierrepoints had tapped a market that only buys from the most discreet suppliers. The 'leisure market' if you see what I mean. If so, then limited supply and the need for utmost discretion would guarantee premium prices. This is the kind of low cost, high-price market sector that business adores. I thought perhaps I had discovered - over-shadowed by the celebrated economic contributions of the 'Pink Pound' - a small, highly profitable contribution made by the 'Stink Pound'.

Two circumstantial pieces of evidence supported this conjecture:

The Government (meaning the Prison Service and the then Inland Revenue) turning a blind eye to the obvious book-cooking - and perhaps crook-cooking - by the Pierrepoints. I presume the authorities got their cut.
There is a visible sub-sector of this market. Only just visible, it hides in plain sight as the 'realistic fake corpse' market.
If the realistic fake corpse market is new to you, see:

DapperCadaver
Distefano
On these two sites, you will see advanced 'Halloween dummies' on open sale. But turn up your intuition level... Turn your intuition level right up to volume 11 and you will see love dolls being openly sold to people who are 'exploring their relationship' with putrefaction.

It would be unfair to call these products 'gateway corpses for beginner necrophiliacs'. So I won't. You make your own call. The main thing is: we should not judge 'The Other'.

If what I am saying seems 'out there', I assure you it isn't. I was introduced to Distefano over 20 years ago by my corpse-obsessed then-wife. Its product line seems to have been more upmarket in those days. My then-wife became my ex-wife and went on to become a respected cop, which proves these interests are as Establishment as it gets.

By my count, that is three pieces of evidence that support my conjecture.

Anyway, that's how we got to here, to IHASFEMR. So let's now take a look at a similar word to 'gibbet': 'giblet'.

*Giblet*:

an edible visceral organ of a fowl —usually used in plural
giblets plural, archaic: odds and ends: "the great ladies with their grace, lace, and giblets" - Peter Hawker
I don't know who Peter Hawker was or where he wrote that. But I do know who John Byng was and where he wrote the below. From John Byng's _The Torrington Diaries, Vol III_, p98, at Skipton Castle:


> a most inconvenient, miserable, tatter'd place it is, with neither beauty of building, nor pleasing antiquity; but a melancholy wretchedness of bad old rooms, some miserable tapestry, and some (basely) neglected pictures, especially one of the Countess, with a child in her hand



Yes. She had big hands.

Now, adding to feralimal's findings about liquor and gravy:


> To make gravy, you may want to fortify it with neck and giblets while the turkey cooks (or chop the giblets and saute them with some shallot…


Source

OK, let's board the gravy train:

Britain, 1908:

_Iron Age gibbets. Note the bowler hat. Source_

Britain, 1934:

_My proposal for replacing the NHS home care service with McDonalds rail deliveries. __Source_

America, 1908:​
_Note the bowler hat. __Source_​
For the interested, details of more American mechanisms are here. In short, this is how you engineer pick-up and drop-off of cargo by a moving vehicle. Without requiring it to stop.

Referring back to the Lincolnshire Life quote in post-106260.


> Later on, coaches would also leave their mailbags at the Wheatsheaf and it was from here that villagers would collect their letters – in effect the hotel was Swineshead’s first Post Office.



That was part of my response to your very relevant question in post-106259:


> Was it a coaching inn at one point prior to the houses construction?



Yes it was. And it was a mail pick-up and drop-off station too. Among John Byng's most common diary entries are his references to picking up his mail, replying to it, and talking with innkeepers about postal delivery times.

Hotels and inns that acted as post offices were called 'posting stations'. From a page about Thorney, Cambridgeshire:


> Thorney was, during this time a Posting Station and the Dukes Head Inn stood on the south west corner of the traffic lights at Abbey Place and the Wisbech Road. It was demolished after it fell in to disrepair towards the end of the nineteenth century.



I think you're going to tell me I've made a great case for Swineshead's old cross base being the remnant of a parcel pick-up and drop-off point. And Thorney's too. But I think you're also going to tell me - gently and sensitively - that there was no railway line running past Swineshead's Wheatsheaf, nor past Thorney's Dukes Head Inn. That I should drop my case. But that you'll hang on a little longer to hear what I think Pierrepoint's ridiculously over-sized knot was really about.

I thought we might reach this point. I feared a post whose only obvious merits are its gallows humour and hard-earned knowledge of the sexual preferences of necrophiliacs would quickly lose reader interest. People want facts. Preferably facts about things they find interesting, not facts about things I find interesting.

So I've cut and pasted a short diversion into materials science. Specifically, bow-making. Bow-making and what bow-making tells us about the suppressed history of materials science.

All bows are equal but some bows are more equal than others. Or at least, are better-known than others. We begin with a quick examination of the English longbow. Starting with a quote I'm sure I once heard at the dinner table in the mid-90s. That the simple longbow:


> was the AK-47 of the Middle Ages.







Your browser is not able to display this video.



_Simple because it is made from a natural laminate. __Source_


_English longbow staves combine the contrasting properties of yew's sapwood and heartwood. __Source_​
Just to drive the point home:

Yew heartwood tolerates and recovers from compression very well.
Yew sapwood tolerates and recovers from tension very well.
So, cut correctly, yew staves supply two woods pre-bonded to each other. From one tree.

We're told English warbows - the taller man's version of today's 1.8m (72 inch) longbow - presented draw-weights up to 150lbs. Possibly more. This tolerance for being tensioned and compressed, then released into super-fast recovery, is what makes yew's natural lamination so suitable for warbows.

The Japanese used short bows and longbows. The french also fought with longbows. So-called 'English' longbows are made from European Yew (Taxus baccata), which is found all over western Europe. References to yew and yew woodworkers can be found as far south as Évora in Portugal. Says Wikipedia, the 'celt' word for yew - 'ebura' and its variations - is found all over western Europe. Eboracum was the Latin name for York. Which itself isn't a million miles from the word 'yew'.

*Conclusion*: Whatever your longbow heritage, European yew's qualities were appreciated from York in northern England to Évora in southern Portugal.

We've seen some bow shooting. But we focused on the bow. Let's have a squint at accuracy:





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_Byron Ferguson demonstrates his eye for circle packing. __Source_

With that, we've drawn a picture of the basics of archery. We know yew's natural lamination mixes and matches properties of two different tree parts. We can also envision range and accuracy.

Longbows are powerful, accurate and even romantic... but you can't prance around on verandahs with them:





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_A laminate bow receives its final layer: a simple human shield. Source: __Westworld S02 Ep05_

Most bows are short compared to longbows. Why? Some 'exhibition' archers claim traditional archery is a misrepresentation. That archery was fast-moving, dynamic and often, very close range. Requiring skills like this:


_Unfortunately, using bows in this way is controversial today. __Source_​
Among archers, this video is controversial. Apparently, some say, it's unrealistic. Some say it's faked. Assuming it is genuine, then in my opinion, there are only two appropriate responses to this video: awe (a feeling) and appreciation (a cognition).

Perhaps as a result of buying so many ready-to-use items during their lives, consumer-humans no longer experience the feeling of 'awe' as awe was meant to be felt. That is: as the feeling experienced when we see the abilities someone has developed from their personal struggle with innumerable failures. Instead, consumers confuse the feeling called 'awe' with the feeling called 'jealousy'. I think this may be because consumers don't fail enough. They think achievement is easy. As a result, they are unable to process 'awe' when they encounter it. Their sense of "I can't do that" is transformed into jealousy. Then into anger instead of appreciation. This is not a natural, built-in, fault. It is a stress condition, a symptom of capabilities left undeveloped by insufficient exposure to personal failure, insufficient survival of personal failure, and insufficient overcoming of challenges. Individually and mutually.

Like bows, we humans need to be tillered as part of our development. Tillering develops balance. Beyond that, we need to be stretched if we are are to develop our full power.

Anyway, let's avoid arguing with angry aficionados of weaponry. Armed angry people get killed while arms manufacturers get rich, so we'll look at bow-making instead.

You can make a field-expedient short bow out of a single stave of wood. Some woods are better than others. But most short bows perform much better if you laminate together materials with different properties. In other words, if you imitate yew's natural lamination.

Usual materials for this?

Various woods and bamboos
Hide
Sinew
Horn
Bone
I left ivory off the list. I'm not a materials scientist but I understand ivory's brittleness more or less excludes its use in highly-stressed, flexing laminates. And also excludes it from laminates that must take a bashing. Ivory might have potential as a reinforcement in static laminate applications. But if low weight is required, ivory loses to bone.

Choice depends on what you've got and what you want. Stronger bow? More stable bow? Lighter bow? Stiffer bow? Cold temperature bow (think "Artic")? Bone was usually used as a stiffener. It helps laminates resist flexing. Which you might want if all you have is sinew and seal skin.

This clip - from _Making The Lakota Bow, A Bow Maker's Journey_ - shows sinew being used to increase a bow's stiffness:





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_It's not as good but it's better. __Source_

Manufacture can get quite complex:


_Laminating a Japanese longbow. __Source_​
It reminds me of a human spine. And then comes the thought: well, what was your body designed to do?

Consider what he's using his body to do. He probably didn't wake up one Saturday morning thinking:


> Got the whole weekend ahead. What do to? I know! I'll make a bow out of slivers of wood and bamboo while practicing yoga.



No. He is using techniques taught and learned over time. His knowledge of materials is coeval with his knowledge of technique. That is the essence of materials science and laminates. Knowledge of materials, knowledge of technique. Slivers of knowledge laminated together in the human mind, then expressed through applied expertise into usable products.

And now we close in on the point.

All over the world, there is evidence of a pool of knowledge about the properties and processes required to laminate organic materials. The more difficult the conditions, the more sophisticated the knowledge. I couldn't quickly find clips of Artic bow-making to demonstrate this but I read that Inuit bow laminating techniques are among the most innovative.

Permanent laminates require glue. Knowledge of materials science and of materials processing goes into making - and using - glues. Another sliver of acquired knowledge. And I'd suggest that even the hangman's rope is another, simple example of lamination science.

From these concepts, we see a mystery grow. From knowledge of materials to knowledge of technique to the mystery of 'how?' How did humans acquire their knowledge of materials science?

IHASFEMR says: humans were taught this. But that's not the only mystery about it. Another mystery is captured by these questions:

Why do you see this advanced engineering knowledge applied only to bows?
Why does Western Europe show so very little evidence of advanced lamination techniques?
I appreciate various products use laminates. Some structural elements and laminated containers do reflect knowledge of advanced lamination materials techniques. But these products are generally for static use. Laminated bows are designed to deliver power, stability, and lightness under high-stress, highly dynamic conditions.

As the gibbet and the catapult and the waterwheel and the cart and wooden ships all demonstrate, a great deal of pre-industrial expertise developed into the heavy engineering of robust wooden products. Strength through chunk. Funktionalität durch Solidität. Awe-inspiring as they are, they distract us from noticing the expertise that goes into making a laminate bow.

Why do we see no record of that expertise being routinely used to solve other pre-industrial age engineering problems? Or to innovate new pre-industrial age products?

I suspect the answers to these questions go something like this:

Lamination techniques *were* used.
Lightweight, highly stressed, highly performant products *were* built.
We see only one class of them because the others were suppressed.
Can I prove item three: the suppression claim?

No.

Pointing to something that isn't there and shouting typing: "Look! See?" won't work. That's the goal of suppression. But I can highlight some enigmas that may show us the edges of suppression.

1. English churchyards almost always have at least one yew tree. Usually more than one. The explanations for this don't adequately explain why so many yews would be planted in churchyards and not around other old buildings.

2. English churches - and churches in other countries - often have crypts. More than 60 English churches are known to have stored bones their crypts.

*Conclusion*: We see yew - a component of springy laminates - being grown on the same sites in which bones - a component used to stiffen flexible laminates - were seemingly cleaned, sorted and stored. Could churches have been workshops? Could their alleged function as power generators have been a by-product of needing electricity for laminate materials processing?​
3. On his tours, John Byng often comments that all the furniture is missing from old halls and mansions. He mentions furniture in 'the old taste'. Visiting Louth, Lincolnshire, he describes the furniture and extensive grotto built by 'Mr Jolland', the vicar of Louth's St James' Church (Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images). Probably Wolley Jolland, vicar from 1780 to 1840. On p354 of _The Torrington Diaries_ (Abridged Selection), Byng says Jolland built the grotto and its furniture from tree roots and polished horses' bones. Was Jolland eccentric? Or simply a craftsman in the old taste?

4. Clues in the odd use of nouns.




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Portuguese word 'bone' (noun form). Source

'Osso' is the root of 'ossuário' or 'ossário', the Portuguese word for 'ossuary.'

Évora's famous ossuary (Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images) is the source of the image used earlier in this thread. Famous for its 'Roman' ruins, Évora also held a large part of the slave population of Portugal.





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Évora. Portuguese pronunciation. Source

Which sounds a bit like:




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Ivory. English pronunciation.

And not much like:




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Marfim. Portuguese word for 'ivory'. Source

The closest Portuguese word I found for 'ivory' is the word for off-white colour:




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Ebúrneo. Portuguese pronunciation. Source

But it's unlikely the entities who named Évora mistook its ossuary for a stash of ivory. Ivory is easily distinguished from bone by its hatching patterns and absence of the dark flecks that are characteristic of bone. There are good Youtube videos on this but the following clip is more relevant for IHASFEMR:





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_"No. It's bone." Source: __Inferno, 2016_

It seems more likely to me that Évora was a place laminate materials were processed. A place as familiar with ivory as it was with bone. And yew. Perhaps it was always named after ivory, but only the bones and the yews remain.

5. Why did the entity who allegedly initiated Portugal's African slave trade - Henry the Navigator - have his navigation school built high on a cliff? Why not at sea level, preferably where river currents meet tides to create more realistic sea conditions to teach sailing and position-fixing?

6. Stolen History researchers draw our attention to vanilla sky photographs. How do we explain them? How do we explain this seemingly botched photograph of Mount Wilson observatory from post-102149 and the mainstream version of the telescope's journey up the mountain?




7. Gasbags have a lot to tell us:





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_One man and a small gasbag. Source: Skankpunk's airship series._

And another:





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_One man and his rather larger gasbag. Source: Skankpunk's airship series._

I wondered about many aspects of these two clips:

The gasbags look small. Did they use hydrogen as we know it? Ozone? Corpse gas?
Are the gasbags roughly the same size?
What weight is each gasbag lifting?
Were their experimenters reverse engineering an earlier culture's technology?
How did these experimenters feel during the moments we see in the two clips?
The word 'joy' wouldn't capture it for me. 'Exaltant' or 'a little scared but exaltant' describe how I would have felt.

Dissatisfied that the nearest I could get to 'a little scared but exaltant' would be to calculate the respective sizes of two gasbags, I set out to design an autonomous airship drone. I wanted to explore an airship's 'challenge environment'; the problems around sensing and control. Using parts from my parents' hoard of trash discarded appliances.

Working out the algorithms required for the controller code, I began to appreciate the difficulty of reducing risk for airships operating close to ground at zero - or near-zero - ground speed. Like a sailing dinghy, they can't reliably maintain position if they are not making way. And there's no 'heaving to' for airships. Other than being tethered.

And, as you can see in the second airship clip, handling would become even more difficult if you are moving cargo around.

Discovering this problem helps us make sense of some strange stories. Stories about flying ships that trailed 'anchors' on long ropes. Anchors that get hooked on churches and have to be freed. Perhaps it even explains Jack and the Beanstalk.

Thorney is home to an interesting legend. From: Village History | Thorney Museum:


> Legend says that the religious settlement of "Ancarig" (the original name of Thorney) – the place of the anchorites





> William of Malmesbury described Thorney as "a little paradise, delightsome as heaven itself may be deemed, fen-circled, yet rich in loftiest trees..."





> "A vast solitude is here the monk's lot, that they may the more closely cling to things above. If a woman is there seen, she is counted a monster,  but strangers, if men, are greeted as angels unawares."



A reference on that page to 'quiet' and 'contemplative life' made me wonder if the anchorites thought the gods were listening in on their conversations. Perhaps the anchorites were plotting their escape from the manor farm system. The quote: "the more closely cling to things above." caught my eye. Maybe they were trying to escape this domain using the same techniques that desperate Afghanis allegedly used at Kabul International Airport. Clinging on to airships ranging over pre-roads Lincolnshire.

But it seems more likely to me they were simply farmers air-shipping sentient produce.

8. In his comments about Jolland's root and bone grotto in Louth, Byng notes that among Jolland's inscriptions and decorations there is:


> not one cross; probably he might fear to give offence.



The destruction of 80% of Britain's 12,500 market crosses by the end of the 18th Century implies widespread cultural revulsion. Does our understanding of the symbolism of crosses allow that used inside Divine Workshops, they may have been stretching frames for the careful extraction of hide, sinew and bone? Does it allow that, outside, they may have been hitching posts for airships? Perhaps Swineshead's worn steps were the slipways of the gods?

And, sometimes, perhaps gibbets support structures for the pick-up loops attached to cargo awaiting pick up?

9. To me, the hangman's knot looks like a marlinspike sailor's hitch. It seems designed to withstand high loads and rough handling. I wonder if the rope winding was there to help it stand upright; to hold its loop upwards ready to catch a hook. Propped up, or perhaps even manually offered up, to a hook trailed from an airship. That airship would have to be built by entities with a wonderful knowledge of lighter-than-air gases and lightweight laminates.

So no, kd-755, I'm not arguing it was the base of a former market cross. I think the available evidence - and the evidence of missing evidence - supports an entirely different use case.


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## Jd755 (Dec 8, 2021)

That's a hell of a long way to get to an answer of sorts. Given the nature of this thread I guess you feel the wear comes from killing humans. Fair enough I have no idea what or indeed where the stones came from or what there purposes were. They could simply be reused steps taken from a defunct building or they could be the steps used when people got into or out of a coach or even a way of loading and unloading heavy articles of goods from and onto carts. Its all speculation though.

I'm doing nothing more than looking at these photographs and imagining.

As for your iron gibbet theory well I have seen them in real life and the are built to allow a moving mail train to collect mailbags without stopping says an awful lot about the engineering skill that used to be employed once upon a not so long ago.. The mail carriage sorting office was equipped with a fold out net device to effect a good catch. Ingenious actually.

The role of the cross in marketplaces as always seemed to me to symbolise some sort of control or order as well as being an obvious symbol to itinerant sellers such as chapmen and tinkers, drovers etc where the best place to do business is. Would be interesting to find out when Swineshead market cross came into being if such information exists on the web.

The disappearance of market crosses en mass in a short period of time simply says to me they were obsolete much in the same way in my lifetime the 'shop on every corner' has become obsolete. Much like markets themselves actually. Few survive and of those that do even fewer are of the scale and frequency they were even just 50 years ago.

I sit nobbut a mile away from the extant remains of the building in which the first British airship was built for the Royal Navy. I emerged from its shed pulled out by three or four small boats and was moored onto a specially built mooring mast in Cavendish Dock. A wind 'got up' which was well within the design tolerances of the airship and it swivelled on its mast and broke its back.
A total loss.
The fundamental flaws with airships really is quite obvious their massive size makes them vulnerable to even light winds and their carrying capacity in terms of weight is tiny in comparison to their scale. Basically because the airship obviously has weight in and of itself which it has to keep airborne and all cargo has weight and this necessitates ever bigger vessels which increase the odds of structural failure due to the wind.
Add in another obvious failing in that they are almost uncontrollable when moving and cannot react quickly to anything much like a supertanker and their sheer bulk makes it a very dangerous thing to bring down to a tiny in relative terms mooring mast even if the weather plays fair.
That they existed is beyond question for me as my best friends grandmother saw the Hindenburg fly low and slow over the town when she was a teenager and my own grandfather saw one fly over his home town though he didn't say if it was German or British .


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## usselo (Dec 8, 2021)

kd-755 said:


> Given the nature of this thread I guess you feel the wear comes from killing humans.


I think the wear is mostly from usage. For the contextual reasons set out above, I lean towards the idea they were worn down by long usage as a parcel/cargo pick-up 'gibbet' at a 'postal station'.

As for whether the gibbet was iron, or wood, or other, I don't have enough evidence to say. The above image of an iron 'gibbet' illustrates iron being used in a gibbet-like role. But it doesn't solve the case.



kd-755 said:


> That's a hell of a long way to get to an answer of sorts.


I was once complimented by my then boss. Only once, which is why I remember it so well. He said I was tenacious.

I did notice though, that tenacity was frowned upon by many, especially outside of work:





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_My days as __a simp__. And my nights. Source: __Annihilation, 2018_

Perhaps tenacity is in the eye of the beholder.


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## Jd755 (Dec 9, 2021)

usselo said:


> I think the wear is mostly from usage. For the contextual reasons set out above, I lean towards the idea they were worn down by long usage as a parcel/cargo pick-up 'gibbet' at a 'postal station'.


My observation of what is depicted in the photographs  runs as far as the are made of stone that has worn.  What type of stone where it came from, what if any use it had previously is anyone's' guess but in the absence of this information all there is is speculation.

The pub was a coaching inn. Horses can go around 15 miles at a walk without requiring food and water for this reason coach horses were changed at these inns. If the horses were pushed into cantering then they would need changing more frequently and galloping horses even more frequently.
As the coach has to stop moving for the ostlers and stable hands to change the horses there is no need for a gibbet type affair to be used. All that is required is two humans one on the coach and the other on the ground. Anything heavy is not placed on the roof for the simple reason to maintain stability on anything fitted with wheels the weight is always greatest nearest the axles otherwise the wheeled vehicle will fall over very easily.
Coach and horses do not run on rails so a moving coach would rarely be in the right position to collect a hanging mailbag. Loading and unloading a stopped coach is very easy and can be done within the time it takes to change the horses so the postal gibbet idea holds no merit.

Edit to add missing p's.
Keyboard is playing silly buggers.


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## usselo (Dec 10, 2021)

kd-755 said:


> The pub was a coaching inn. Horses can go around 15 miles at a walk without requiring food and water for this reason coach horses were changed at these inns. If the horses were pushed into cantering then they would need changing more frequently and galloping horses even more frequently.


According to Deep Hollow Ranch, expectations for the distance a horse can travel have fallen from 35 miles to 25 miles. You can see why a stop after around 15 miles would have been vital for watering, resting and probably changing horses. Presumably that would be around lunch-time.

Byng has a curious quote about the stamina expected of horses in old times. It has implications for the logistics of the day too: the coaching inns and stables required to provide and maintain a large number of horses. From _The Torrington Diaries_ (Abridged Selection), p33:


> Could a coach and six have come further than to Huntingdon from London in two days? I should have liked the travell of those times: the reception, and comfort at an inn ;


and


> Tho' yet, the posting on horseback might have been very quick; as we know from several accounts ; particularly in that entertaining life of Henry Carey Earl of Monmouth. [17]
> 'Who to outstrip his fellows, and gain the favor of the new Monarch - set out from Whitehall betwixt 9 and 10 o'clock in the morning of March 24th, 1603, and reach'd Doncaster that night.'​
> [17]: This is a mistake in the Christian name. It is Robert Carey, 1st Earl of Monmouth (1560-1639), who recounts the journey in his _Memoirs_.




_Whitehall to Doncaster route today. Source: Google Maps_​
Assuming 'that night' means 21:30, and the route was more or less as it is today, that's 195 miles in 12 hours. 16.25 miles per hour. Slightly faster though to give Robert Carey time to leap from saddle to saddle.



kd-755 said:


> My observation of what is depicted in the photographs  runs as far as the are made of stone that has worn.  What type of stone where it came from, what if any use it had previously is anyone's' guess but in the absence of this information all there is is speculation.


You're right: speculation is just ballast we must jettison as we fill our holds with evidence.

There are many possible sources for Swineshead's stones. A lot of stone was freighted across the flooded Fens, judging by accounts of Thorney Abbey's ruins being used for Cambridge's colleges and similar about stone being shipped from the southern Fen shores to the northern shores. Former ports like Swineshead have sandstone available nearby but given the gradients around the southern Wolds it might have been as easy to bring in those stones by boat or make use of dumped ballast.

I'll let you know what I find when I visit.



kd-755 said:


> Anything heavy is not placed on the roof for the simple reason to maintain stability on anything fitted with wheels the weight is always greatest nearest the axles otherwise the wheeled vehicle will fall over very easily.


Understood. Keep the centre of gravity low. Increase the energy required to tip the vessel. Like ballast in a ship. Is that what you mean?

We don't usually see this because ships' hulls are solid, though we can divine it by watching ferries loading and unloading. There's even specialised software for calculating container loading and unloading order to keep weight as low down as possible as the ship loads and unloads at different ports on its route. I don't know about these days, but 25 years ago that software was notable for running on Macs rather than Windows 3.11.

Anyway, this clip might help folks envision the equipment used to attach heavy freight during pick up:





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_Sikorsky CH-53E picks up a light armoured vehicle. __Source_


Hmmm...          Source​
Nice to see a crozier in action from 35 seconds in. You can still buy croziers. This one comes with a snap-out user manual:


_Recommended by St Michael! __Source_​
In relation to this, I've been thinking about the knobbly bits on church steeples:


_Knobbly bits. Uffington, Lincolnshire


St Marys, Stamford


The church opposite the pub._​
The knobbly bits' external surfaces usually have quite a distinctive shape, like the groove fashioned into porcelain electrical insulators. I wondered if, in the past, these grooves supported electro-luminescent wire.

As I looked at church steeples and church towers I also wondered: do we see unique combinations of:

tower features
steeple features
corner pinnacle features?
So far I would say, we do. At least in the areas I move around in.

So, if illuminated at night - as some of those crazy Stolen History folks speculate was possible - and if approached from the air - as one of those crazy Stolen History folks speculates was possible - each church would show a unique pattern of light.

The pattern would be unique whether seen from the side or seen from above. From the side, they would appear like bands of light, with a different band count and perhaps different patterns of bands for each church. From high above, looking down, each set of bands would appear like concentric octagons of light. Again, the patterns would vary from church to church.

Naturally, I wanted to see how that might look if I were flying over eastern England at night. I wanted to see if it would be worth spending cash on a 2D graphic showing multiple different patterns of octagonal light bands.
​



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A 2D graphics artist made up a prototype using some flashing beacon images to stand in for the more complex octagonal patterns of lights. The above cost £15. I think it would be possible to work out what the patterns of lights would be for, say, each of the churches south of the Fens. You could then - theoretically - position them on black background and simulate flying over them in darkness.

But it would only be worthwhile if you wanted to see how illuminated church steeples and towers would have looked at night.

From the cabin of a medieval airship.


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## Observer (Dec 10, 2021)

Dear Usselo 

It's time for me to let you know: I feel Gratitude for all the unique ideas you are sharing, Brother.

I think about your thoughts daily: https://stolenhistory.net/members/usselo.1032/#latest-activity

I've pondered, repeatedly and deeply, every idea you've shared at this site: your ideas are logical.

Some folks haven't invested the energy to neutrally consider, chronologically, all your lovely posts.

Some simply lack the ability to recognize & admit reality, even when it's right in front of their face.

Some are limited by their loyalty loop, and some simply cannot boldly jump to logical conclusions.

Please ignore such self-limited characters, and please continue your grand thoughts without limits.

What you have realized is reality, and your tenacious sharing with humanity is altruistic and worthy.

So, in summary, please remember: there are humans existing who are Grateful for your idea sparks.

Sincerely,

Observer 

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## Jd755 (Dec 10, 2021)

A coach and four cannot do 35 or 25 miles a day. on one set of horses.
Over here the village layout is on a loose 15 mile grid pattern for the most part. This easy to check using old OS maps and it golds good for most but not all areas of the islands.
The horses used for coach and cart work were not of the same build as personal transport on horseback. Each use had its own breeds which were maintained and reinvigorated and most are still around today so it is easy to see the difference in the animals body size and shape.
Basically the more thicker set the horse breed the more suited it is to carts and carriages with carriage horses being the lighter build of the two. Cartage horses are hooked up to far heavier loads than carriage horses and the move at a slower pace.

If the stones turn out to be sandstone then it would be wise to try and establish which specific stone as sandstone comes in a wide range of hardness. Perhaps a comparison with other sandstone in the immediate area such as the stone on the pub or the cross may shed some light on the steps being contemporary with both or either. Will be an interesting read when it appears.

Yes ballasting is all about stability and as a slight aside given the proximity of the fens an improper ballast on an otherwise empty ship will render it unseaworthy as effectively as a moving cargo would. Wheeled vehicles get their stability in the exact same way.  There are slow motion videos of container ships being unloaded and loaded in a very specific order that are fascinating to watch.
With any thing heavy requiring transport using horsepower just above the axle is optimum as this puts the weight more or less chest height on the horse and as it pushes forward into its harness the push force is exerted in a straight line through the load. Once moving it then become relatively easy in terms of effort to keep moving.

Incidentally oxen were often the choice beast of burden for cartage as pound for pound they can move more weight for longer per day than a horse can and they are low maintenance as their feet provide more ground contact therefore traction than a horse. Obviously they cannot travel as quickly as horses so are useless for carriage work.


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## feralimal (Dec 12, 2021)

​
Ho ho ho!

As it is coming up to Christmas, I thought I'd share this little observation from Father Christmas's wiki:


> One story tells how during a terrible famine, a *malicious butcher lured three little children into his house, where he killed them, placing their remains in a barrel to cure, planning to sell them off as ham.*[29][55] Nicholas, visiting the region to care for the hungry, saw through the butcher's lies[29][56] and _resurrected the pickled children_ by making the Sign of the Cross.[29][56] Jona Lendering states that the story is "without any historical value."[40]  Adam C. English notes that the story of the resurrection of the pickled children is a late medieval addition to the legendary biography of Saint Nicholas[36] and that it is not found in any of his earliest Lives.[36]
> 
> _Though this story seems bizarre and horrifying to modern audiences,[56] it was tremendously popular throughout the late Middle Ages and the Early Modern Period and _*widely beloved by ordinary folk.*[56][29][40] It is depicted in stained glass windows, wood panel paintings, tapestries, and frescoes.[56] Eventually, the scene became so widely reproduced that, rather than showing the whole scene, artists began to merely depict Saint Nicholas with three naked children and a wooden barrel at his feet.[56] According to English, eventually, people who had forgotten or never learned the story began misinterpreting representations of it.[57] The fact that Saint Nicholas was shown with children led people to conclude he was the patron saint of children;[57] meanwhile, the fact that he was shown with a barrel led people to conclude that he was the patron saint of brewers.[58]


(from Saint Nicholas - Wikipedia)

... "the fact that he was shown with a barrel led people to conclude that he was the patron saint of brewers."

Perhaps I'm too cynical.... but could this be yesteryear's spin (ie history written by the victors)?  I find myself wondering was he really the butcher or the patron saint of curers?

Of course the other name we have for him is Santa, and he has a grotto:


> a grotto is a natural or artificial cave used by humans in both modern times and antiquity, and historically or prehistorically.


and


> The word grotto comes from Italian grotta, Vulgar Latin grupta, and Latin crypta ("a crypt").


(from Grotto - Wikipedia)

Another troglodyte (cave dweller) then?  And then there's the simple wordplay to convert _Santa_ to _Satan_.  And that satanists' 'place of worship' is also often called a grotto.


> Within the Church of Satan, a *Grotto* (from Italian _grotta_, a type of cave) is a clandestine association or gathering of Satanists within geographical proximity for means of social, ritual, and special interest activities.[1] The Black House, the founding place and headquarters of the Church of Satan from 1966 to 1997, was effectively the first grotto, and was for a time referred to as the "Central Grotto".


(from Grotto (Satanism) - Wikipedia)

Sigh...  reading more on his wiki about his relics, we find:


> After the relics were brought to Bari, they continued to produce "myrrh", much to the joy of their new owners. Vials of myrrh from his relics have been taken all over the world for centuries, and can still be obtained from his church in Bari. Even up to the present day, *a flask of manna is extracted from the tomb of Saint Nicholas every year on 6 December (the Saint's feast day)* by the clergy of the basilica. *The myrrh is collected from a sarcophagus which is located in the basilica vault* and could be obtained in the shop nearby. *The liquid gradually seeps out of the tomb*, but it is unclear whether it originates from the body within the tomb, or from the marble itself; since the town of Bari is a harbour, and the tomb is below sea level, there have been several natural explanations proposed for the manna fluid, including the transfer of seawater to the tomb by capillary action.


That sounds like liquor again!


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## Historyburied (Dec 12, 2021)

feralimal said:


> View attachment 14811​
> Ho ho ho!
> 
> As it is coming up to Christmas, I thought I'd share this little observation from Father Christmas's wiki:
> ...


Al this post reminded me of Sean Hross's work on the deeds of the aristocracy. The video is timestamped to Sean's discovery of a metal plate depicting what we have been told is a blood libel scene mounted to the side of Worb Castle.


_View: https://youtu.be/dZOZ3ukKlJo?t=769_


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## usselo (Dec 13, 2021)

Michael Portillo's Great British Railway Journeys S04 Ep17 visited the John Boyd Textiles factory in Castle Cary. Boyd's hard-wearing fabric was used to upholster train seats. Boyd provided an income for impoverished children. From the John Boyd Textiles website:


> The horsehair fabrics were initially woven by hand. This would require a weaver to stand at a loom all day and a small child would sit in the loom with the horse tail, serving the hair to the weaver.




_But what else could we sell? Source _​




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_"It's the tail hair from, erm... from horses." Source: __Great British Railway Journeys S04 Ep17_

The camera-work in the mill sequence is stuffed with hair gags. The show also said the last remaining hair mills are Boyd's and a mill in France.

Perhaps they made upholstery in what John Byng called: 'the old taste'.

Perhaps that's why British and French women still prefer shaved armpits.


_Tuppence a tuft! At that price you can shave me upstairs AND downstairs! __Source_​


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## RealityCreation (Dec 16, 2021)

Food chain:

Animals eat plants.

Humans eat Animals.

Aliens eat Humans.


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## usselo (Jan 1, 2022)

RealityCreation said:


> Aliens eat Humans.







Your browser is not able to display this video.



_"No, we're not from outer space..." Source: __Society, 1989_

Though it depends what you mean by 'eat'. He adds:


> It's a matter of good breeding, really



Breeding humans. Links:

Human-animal hybrids - Mammalian Hybrids
Selenadia: here and here

Now, looking at mainstream hints that we were eaten. First, let's orient ourselves to the locations mentioned in this post:

​Clockwise from top:

Top: Walkington Wold Barrows, Humberside (Google Maps), (OpenStreetMap), (NLS)
Yellow right: Grimes Graves, Norfolk (Google Maps), (OpenStreetMap), (NLS)
Red right: Great Whelnetham, Suffolk (Google Maps), (OpenStreetMap), (NLS)
Yewden Roman villa, Hambleden (Google Maps), (OpenStreetMap), (NLS)
Jays Close, Hampshire (Google Maps), (OpenStreetMap), (NLS)
Danebury Hill Camp, Hampshire (Google Maps), (OpenStreetMap), (NLS)
Battlesbury Camp, Wiltshire (Google Maps), (OpenStreetMap), (NLS)
Ridgeway Hill, Weymouth (Google Maps), (OpenStreetMap), (NLS)
Carsington cave, Derbyshire (Google Maps), (OpenStreetMap), (NLS)
You may get more out of this post if you are familiar with Sibved's conjecture that hillforts were slurry processing sites for quarried material. Eg:

Fortresses and settlements on ancient dumps?
Hills of Europe
Ancient hills-waste heaps. Processing ore or dumping from underground construction?
There are many more similar articles here and here.

Moving on, we've met this little fellow before. In post-103162:


_Yewden, Hambleden's most famous butchered baby embryotomy. __Source_​
He owned this femur:


Yewden baby femur showing five cut marks. Source​
Notice anything missing?

Here's a hint:
​
He's not the only young male in Britain to lose his ass:




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_Male pelvis found at Danebury Hill Camp. Source: __Mystic Britain Human Sacrifice S01 Ep07_

Rump steak never goes out of fashion.

Also found at Danebury Hill Camp were pits containing 25 human skeletons. That was quite a find because Iron Age bodies are hard to come by:




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_"We don't know where they were disposed of or how." Source: __Time Team Carsington, Derbyshire S10 Ep03_

And:




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_Human 'sacrifice' at Iron Age Danebury Hill Camp. Source: __Mystic Britain Human Sacrifice S01 Ep07_

Looks like something was eating them. A few miles west of Danebury Hill Camp is Battlesbury Camp, where these were found:


_Fang puncture marks on human baby skull. __Source_


_Gnawed human bones. Battlesbury Camp. __Source_​
Dr Stephanie Knight analysed Danebury Hill Camp's many _*animal*_ bones to find out what they say about Iron Age butchery. In _Butchery and Intra-Site Analysis of Animal Bone - A Case Study from Danebury Hillfort - Hampshire - England.pdf_, she concluded the two most common methods of slaughtering animals were:

Poleaxing (hitting the animal on the head)
Sticking (cutting the animal's throat - only detectable if the butcher nicks the hyoid bone)
And the common signs of subsequent butchery are:

Decapitation (Cutting off the animal's head)
Removing (and discarding) the animal's feet
Skinning marks (cut marks on the animal's bones)
Fair enough. Let's apply these indicators to the human remains found at Britain's ancient sites and see what they tell us.

This fellow was about ten when he died at Battlesbury Camp Iron Age fort:


_Battlesbury Camp ten year old, pit 4332. __Source_​
His big grin is fake - the back of his head appears to have been cracked open. Found with him were the stone seen next to his left shoulder, another stone near his hips, various animal bones. And another person's foot:


_Discarded right foot, pit 4332, Battlesbury Camp. Source_​
Pretty much every photograph and inhumation diagram in the Battlesbury paper shows a cracked skull. Check this double adult find in Battlesbury's pit 4223:


_Two humans with cracked skulls, pit 4223, Battlesbury Camp. __Source_​
Maybe they were poleaxed. Or maybe brains were a delicacy. From: _The Vintage News_ about Jamestown, Virginia, USA:


> summer of 2012 that historians made a disturbing discovery. In a hole that also contained butchered horse and dog skeletons, they found a body of a fourteen-year-old English girl, who died in the winter of 1609.
> ...
> The young girl found in 2012 was one of the victims of starvation. Researchers discovered strikes at the back of the girl’s head—apparently an effort to reach her brain tissue, the most desired part.



Given the problems with chronology and radiocarbon dating, and the evidence for the destruction of Pompeii in 1631, there's no reason to believe Britain's "Iron Age" events occurred very much earlier than 1609.

No point in looking for sticking - Knight's second slaughter indicator - because bloodletting doesn't leave scars. Collection troughs are the evidence most likely to be found. Possibly associated with offal collection. For reference, here's what bloodletting looks like in a modern abattoir:



Spoiler: Yep, I can stand the sight of blood. Enjoy it even.







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_Bloodletting stunned pigs. Source: __AMI Tour of a Pork Plant_



Do we find evidence for post-slaughter human butchery? Starting with Knight's first indicator: decapitation?

We do:




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_Decapitation evidence from unidentified site 13 miles from Maiden Castle hillfort. Source: __Mystic Britain Human Sacrifice S01 Ep07_

They also found animal bones in this 'burial' pit. Many human 'burials' are mixed with animal bones. This one was particularly ornate. The osteo says this kind of 'sacrifice' occurred every 20 years. They can't date bones with anything like that level of precision. So that information comes from unidentified sources, or it's a fabrication.

Other human decapitation sites:

17 (33%) of 52 'extreme justice' decapitations noted at Knobb's Farm, Somersham, Cambridgeshire. Mentioned in post-103534.
21 (40%) of 52 skeletons at Great Whelnetham, Suffolk
54 decapitations and limb removal at Ridgeway Hill, Weymouth: report 2 and report 3
10 of 12 individuals decapitated at Walkington Wold barrows
and others - such as near Fowlmere, Cambridgeshire - whose excavation reports - if any - seem to be unavailable.
OK. Is there any evidence of human feet being removed other than the Battlesbury pit 4332 find shown earlier?

Yes.

From page 97 of the Battlesbury paper:


> Articulated bones, representative of redeposited, partial skeletons (such as the articulated foot from pit 4332) have been reported from several Iron Age sites. A ‘burial’ from Stanton Harcourt, Oxfordshire was recorded as having been ‘dismembered’; only the foot bones remaining articulated and placed over other disarticulated elements.



In other words, low-meat/high-bone body-parts like human feet, were discarded intact. Ie, they offer a low return-on-investment for further butchery. But no problem - give the dog a bone...

Discarded feet are associated with *animal butchery* at Battlesbury and Stanton Harcourt.
Discarded feet are associated with so-called *human burials* at Battlesbury and Stanton Harcourt.
Animal forelegs are also often found mixed with human remains. From page 55 of Knight's _Butchery and Intra-Site Spatial Analysis of Animal Bone: A Case Study From Danebury Hillfort, Hampshire, England_:


> A late Iron Age pit at Flagstones (Dorchester), in which was deposited an adult skeleton and infant skull, also contained articulated cattle and horse limbs (Hill 1995a: 121). The distinction between pits and burials appears to merge here, and articulated animal limbs and human remains are commonly found in pits at Danebury.



And from page 275:


> Individual graves in Iron Age cemeteries in East Yorkshire (probably a reference to the Walkington Wold 'execution cemetery' site) often contain the remains of animal parts (Stead 1991). It is uncertain whether these parts could represent habitual meat ‘cuts’, or a specific funerary rite either as a sacrifice or a funerary meal. The parts include whole pig forelimbs and so do not correlate with the butchery patterns from Danebury, which show disarticulation at all joints on the leg.



In other words, human and animal parts that were inefficient to fillet (to disarticulate) were discarded 'buried'. If they were animal, it's called 'butchery'. If they were human, it is called 'sacrifice' or even 'ritual acts of rational violence'.

Do we have evidence of cut marks caused by skinning or disarticulation? Besides the Hambleden baby, the two missing pelvis finds, and discarded feet, that is?

Cut marks, a few. Hack marks, plenty.

Iron Age animal butchery shows few cut marks on bones. So few cut marks, in fact, that when they are found they are interpreted as evidence of an inexperienced butcher. Experienced butchers took bodies apart the easy way - at the joints - usually leaving no marks at all. Presumably to preserve their blade edges.





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_Source_

When humans are found hacked up, the hack locations suggest less meaty parts were being removed:




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_A bizarre prehistoric practice. Source: __Time Team Carsington, Derbyshire S10 Ep03_





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_Source: __Time Team Carsington, Derbyshire S10 Ep03_

Time Team's Carsington cave dig found 26 identifiable individuals, 12 of them babies, eight of which were newborns. From Time Team at Carsington caves:




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_"Isn't this weird!". Source: __Time Team Carsington, Derbyshire S10 Ep03_

(There's a visual gag at the end. When Alice Roberts says "That is part of a child's skull again", the editors cut to a shot of Tony Robinson's head.)

And there's more. From _Bodies, Bones, Objects and Stones: Investigating Infancy, Infant Death, Deposition and Human identity in Iron Age Southern England_, Michael Lally, page 253:


> The archaeological record for Iron Age southern England demonstrates that acts of violence were not limited to adult bodies alone. Evidence exists to show that children were treated in similar ways. Direct evidence for this has been found at Viables II (Jay’s Close) in Hampshire, where infant deposition L1037, *a six to seven month old, had been intentionally split in half from the head to the groin*, either resulting in death or at some point soon after death (_Baxter and Duhig 2004, 24_).
> 
> A similar example was reported at Wandlebury, where the remains of a dismembered six year old child were found (_Hartley 1957; Cunliffe 2005, 573; Green 1998; 2002, 53-54_). Here, *analysis suggested that the child had had his legs ‘hacked off’* before being deposited in a pit feature. A second, ‘drastically mutilated’ (_Hartley 1957, 15_) deposition was also uncovered in another of Wandlebury’s pits. This took the form of an adult female, whose head lay apart from her trunk and whose femurs had been deliberately broken off a few centimetres below the pelvis.



A sketch of the halved baby found at Jay's Close:


_Note only a fragment of its pelvis remains. __Source_​
Why would you split a baby in half?




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_Making bacon. Source: __AMI Tour of a Pork Plant_

Maybe the baby was shared between two diners.

This is the so-called 'spear head' that was found alongside the remaining half:


_Source_​
For the hunted, this 'spear' tip's rounded base would make it easy to remove. This looks more like the tip of a rotisserie paddle - a tool for holding a joint above a fire without the carcass slipping when the rotisserie is turned.

It's not the only tool from the past that doesn't look like a good fit for its described use. Take chainmail. From Chain mail - Wikipedia:


> Its invention is commonly credited to the Celts



From _Medieval Life and Times_:


> Shirts made of Chain Mail Clothing weighed up to 25 kilograms, depending on the size and the number of Chain Mail Clothing garments worn.



How did soldiers stay mobile through battles with hand-carried weapons while wearing up to 25kg (60 lbs) of chainmail? Especially when chainmail doesn't even protect its wearer from arrows:





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_Arrows penetrate chainmail. Source and __Lars Anderson archery clip in post-106374_

From Boyac.com:


_Paco Rabanne Unwearable dress, 1966. __Source_​
So chainmail appears impractical for its most well-known purpose as medieval Kevlar. But chainmail is still used today for its less well-known purpose. From Boyac.com:


> Going to buy meat from your local butcher, you may have seen them with a chainmail apron or chainmail gloves used a protective gear.







Your browser is not able to display this video.



_Apron and chainmail. Source: __AMI Tour of a Pork Plant_

So, does mainstream media offer us any hints about what was butchering us? And what was eating us?

Like Grimes Graves, Carsington cave is on the site of a quarry. First lead, then limestone. 400m away is the remains of a barrow mound.

Just as in the cave, Time Team found human bones buried in the barrow:




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_"The barrow serves the community in the next valley". Source: __Time Team Carsington, Derbyshire S10 Ep03_

Serves the community to whom? Or what?

From Walkington Wold burials - Wikipedia:


> Such barrows were thought to be the haunt of dragons, goblins and the like



And from Polly Hewat's retelling of the Lincolnshire tale of Sir Hugh Barde:


> In the 12th century the countryside was plagued by this [dragon], who captured and ate the people of Castle Carlton.
> ...
> The dragon's lair was empty, except for a pile of bones and a heap of skulls, the beast itself being several miles from home, digesting two men and a child which had been its dinner.



Or take Ludham, Norfolk, famous to folklorists for its dragon, which harried residents from numerous tunnels under the village. Ludham also has tales of a quarrying Devil, who digs deep pits and spills gravel as he carries the tailings away. The killing of Ludham's dragon was reported on page two of the Norfolk Chronicle on Saturday, September 28th, 1782:


> On Monday the 14th inst. a snake of an enormous size was destroyed at Ludham in this County by Jasper Andrews of that place. It measured 5 feet 8 inches long, was almost 3 feet in circumference and had a very long snout. What is remarkable there were two excrescences on the forepart of the head which very much resembled horns. The creature seldom made its appearance in the day time but kept concealed in subterranean retreats, several of which have been discovered in the town, one near the bake-office and another on the premises of the Revd. N. V. Jeffrey and another in the land occupied by Mr. Popple at the Hall.



Carsington cave's layout is intriguing:




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_Layout of Carsington warren burrow cave. Source: __Time Team Carsington, Derbyshire S10 Ep03_

Let's listen to the first part of that clip again:




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_"You have to be a worm." Source: __Time Team Carsington, Derbyshire S10 Ep03_

From The Hearse Song:


> The worms crawl in. The worms crawl out.
> They crawl in thin and they crawl out stout.



But worms don't fill wormholes with human bones. Maybe the explanation lies in the fact that 'worm' can mean 'monster', serpent' and 'dragon'.

Time Team's Carsington episode also contained this uncommented two-second sequence showing a limbless skeleton:




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_Source: __Time Team Carsington, Derbyshire S10 Ep03_

Maybe it was a visual gag  - the thing doesn't look much good at scrabbling through rocks. And it's easy to ignore folklore. Until you see some of the reconstructed faces from Carsington cave:




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_Not your ordinary garden gnome. Source: __Time Team Carsington, Derbyshire S10 Ep03_

Originally, both the barrow and the terrain around the cave were raised so both locations were visible on the skyline. They were easy to find.





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_Feeding the dragon: a how-to. Source: __Time Team Carsington, Derbyshire S10 Ep03_



> A sacred space. A circular area into which human bodies may be brought.
> ...
> You may even come along and pick up the big bones.



Not having a worm, serpent, dragon or goblin to hand, I asked the Internet for help:





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_"A sacred space. A circular area into which body parts may be brought."_


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## feralimal (Jan 1, 2022)

Great post.

Tangential to your post, in some of the clips, they are saying that they are surprised that they do not find more 3000 year old bones.

"Despite an iron age population of over 1 million archaeologists have found just a handful of complete burials"
(from "_Human 'sacrifice' at Iron Age Danebury Hill Camp. Source: __Mystic Britain Human Sacrifice S01 Ep07_")

I am struggling with this idea of being able to find bones from the Iron age.  Bones decompose, right?  When I dig in the ground, I do not often find bones of animals.  However, I did find a hip bone on an allotment once, presumably from a cow - it was going to dust and had a pumice stone feel.  It was a different thing to bones we see when we buy meat at the butchers.  And this is entirely expected!  If they are in the ground, even if left uneaten by animals, there are still microbes, fungus, insects, etc.  And in a damp place like the UK, the moisture would also break them down.  Surely it would be the rule that there would be 'no bones' after 3000 years; that bones would only be found in highly abnormal circumstances.

Fwiw, this is wikipedia's take - Skeletonization - Wikipedia:


> In a temperate climate, it usually requires three weeks to several years for a body to completely decompose into a skeleton, depending on factors such as temperature, humidity, presence of insects, and submergence in a substrate such as water. In tropical climates, skeletonization can occur in weeks, while in tundra areas, skeletonization may take years or may never occur, if subzero temperatures persist. Natural embalming processes in peat bogs or salt deserts can delay the process indefinitely, sometimes resulting in natural mummification.





> After skeletonization, if scavenging animals do not destroy or remove the bones, acids in many fertile soils take about *20 years*_ to completely dissolve the skeleton of mid- to large-size mammals, such as humans, leaving no trace of the organism_. In neutral-pH soil or sand, the skeleton can persist for hundreds of years before it finally disintegrates. Alternately, especially in very fine, dry, salty, anoxic, or mildly alkaline soils, bones may undergo fossilization, converting into minerals that may persist indefinitely.


This seems right to me - that after 20 years you would be unlikely to find skeletons.  Perhaps they would last longer if covered by lots of mud unexpectedly.

This must be close to your thinking too:


usselo said:


> Given the problems with chronology and radiocarbon dating, and the evidence for the destruction of Pompeii in 1631, there's no reason to believe Britain's "Iron Age" events occurred very much earlier than 1609.



Anyway, whatever it is they are finding and we are talking about, it seems to me to be in the recent past - just a few generations ago.


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## usselo (Jan 2, 2022)

feralimal said:


> Tangential to your post, in some of the clips, they are saying that they are surprised that they do not find more 3000 year old bones.
> 
> Anyway, whatever it is they are finding and we are talking about, it seems to me to be in the recent past - just a few generations ago.


Working through this material, I sometimes wonder if the Props Department is on the scene. Bones lasting 3,000 years in England's damp soil is a bit humerus.

Another interesting moment in Time Team's Carsington episode was this one about the skull find that gave 'Yorick' chamber its name:




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_"Stalagmites don't grow overnight". Source: __Time Team Carsington, Derbyshire S10 Ep03_

They don't necessarily need thousands of years either:


_Not your everyday butchered foot. __Image source_​
From: How Fast Does Stone Form? (Russian) (English), which seems to have used images from 'The Limestone Cowboy'.


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## Blackdiamond (Jan 2, 2022)

Im not  very well read in this theseis, but have you lot found anything about The Guild, The mans choire  etc. when studying this topic?


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## Belialith (Jan 8, 2022)

usselo said:


> There are tunnels under Stamford (England). See Secrets of Stamford School and Secret tunnels.



The thing with tunnels under universities is that the illuminati have their secret soldier programs, of course in league with negative aliens, as well as other programs, mkultra etc, that they want to keep hidden from the public. Hence the secrecy.

You can read Andy Pero's story in Project Superman, A "Victim" of the illuminatis Super-Race Projects & Montauk Experiments Speaks Out. He says he was regularly taken into a secret room in the university, which no one knew about. Here's a short Interview with Andy Pero, Montauk 'Superman' Programming Victim. And of course there would be secret tunnels...elevators that go deep into the ground.

Then we have The Ruiner blog, an illuminati family born male who speaks out. Here, I'll excerpt a bit from his "*Background*" post.

*"About a month after that I was taken to "Camp" for the first time.  On the way to the "camp" my Grandfather started to explain how our family was not like other families.  That he and my aunts and cousins were all "special" but my mother and father are not.  He told me I am "special" like he is and therefor will be educated like the other "special" members of the family.  That I would be shown "secrets" and I couldn't ever tell anyone.
It was not long after arriving that the first "secret" was revealed to me.
The "camp" was just outside of a town in Ontario Canada called Port Perry.  The "camp" appeared to be a Bible Studies camp.  A small campground with a handful of cabins all about the same size and a couple portables. One cabin was larger than the others and that is the one one entered.

My Grandfather moved a table from the middle of the room to a side, and told me to stand where the table was.  He stood next to me with his arm around me and immediately I thought "why is he holding me so tight?".  I received my answer when the floor began to sink into the ground below the cabin.  Within a few seconds I saw that this floor was actually an elevator, and once it dropped below the level of the cabin floor we were in an elevator shaft that after about 20 feet revealed glass walls that provided a view into what was a very large area which looked like the inside of a warehouse.  This was my first view of what is now known to most reading this as an Underground Base."*

Illuminati, religion, politics and money are all connected to alien interference into our world. If you would like, I could link you to a video (or more) about how the aliens are involved in the super soldier and etc situations.
Oh and I forgot to mention, the medico society, and of course the laboratory of scientists that work hand in hand with it. I was always wondering about that bloodletting they use to do, how it just made no sense. But now it does. And this link, with a not pretty picture of bloodletting from Sweden in 1918.

And why would they call the movie the "Red Dragon"? 
Wikipedia: "Hannibal Lecter is a serial killer who eats his victims. Before his capture, he was a respected forensic _psychiatrist_."


"A true hog..." of, what did he say?


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## alltheleaves (Jan 8, 2022)

Belialith said:


> The thing with tunnels under universities is that the illuminati have their secret soldier programs, of course in league with negative aliens, as well as other programs, mkultra etc, that they want to keep hidden from the public. Hence the secrecy.
> 
> You can read Andy Pero's story in Project Superman, A "Victim" of the illuminatis Super-Race Projects & Montauk Experiments Speaks Out. He says he was regularly taken into a secret room in the university, which no one knew about. Here's a short Interview with Andy Pero, Montauk 'Superman' Programming Victim. And of course there would be secret tunnels...elevators that go deep into the ground.
> 
> ...



Tunnels rumored between Brookhaven Lab (an operation paperclip research node on Long Island NY) and Montauk.

Universities? Told there is a tunnel under San Francisco Bay between Stanford and Cal Berkeley.


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## feralimal (Jan 12, 2022)

Here's a meander around the etymology of the word "*man*". I'm not sure I'm really going anywhere with it, but it seems to touch on a lot of stuff in this thread.

*man- | Meaning of root *man- by etymonline


> *man- (1)
> Proto-Indo-European root meaning "man."
> *man- (2)
> Proto-Indo-European root meaning "hand."


designed as 'handy-men'?

man | Etymology, origin and meaning of man by etymonline


> "a _featherless plantigrade_ biped mammal of the genus *Homo*" [Century Dictionary], Old English man, mann "human being, person (male or female); brave man, *hero*;" also "*servant*, vassal, adult male considered as under the control of another person," from Proto-_Germanic_ *mann-


I note it has both hero and servant embedded in the name.
Also, 'homo' means 'the same', which is fair description....  but its quite a detached way to describe one's own species.  We don't apply 'homo' to other creatures, which must surely look more similar to us.

alderman | Etymology, origin and meaning of alderman by etymonline


> alderman (n.)
> Old English aldormonn (Mercian), ealdormann (West Saxon) "Anglo-Saxon ruler, prince, chief; chief officer of a shire," from aldor, ealder "patriarch" (comparative of ald "old;" see old) + monn, mann "man" (from PIE root *man- (1) "man").


Surely 'elder' also relates to this example usage of '-man'.

alemanni | Etymology, origin and meaning of the name alemanni by etymonline


> name of a Germanic tribe or confederation from the Elbe River region that in late Roman times settled along the upper Rhine in Alsace and part of Switzerland, from Proto-Germanic \*Alamanniz, probably meaning "*all-man*" (see all + man (n.)) and likely denoting a coalition or alliance of tribes rather than a single group.
> 
> But on another theory perhaps meaning rather "foreign men" (compare Allobroges, name of a Celtic tribe in what is now Savoy, in Latin literally "the *aliens*," in reference to their having driven out the original inhabitants), in which case the al- is cognate with the first element in Latin alius "the other" and English else.
> 
> The defeat of the Alemanni by a Frank-led army at Strasburg in 496 C.E. led to the conversion of Clovis and the rise of Frankish political power. The Alemanni were absorbed into the Frankish Kingdom in 796. Not historically important, but through proximity and frequent conflict with the Franks their name became the source of French *Allemand*, the usual word for "*German*, a German," and Allemagne "Germany." In modern use, Alemannish, Alemannic refers to the dialects of modern southwestern Germany; Alamannic refers to the ancient tribes and their language.


Interesting historical info in etymonline.

german | Etymology, origin and meaning of german by etymonline


> german (adj.)
> "of the *same* *parents* or grandparents," c. 1300, from Old French *germain* "own, full; born of the same mother and father; closely related" (12c.), from Latin germanus "*full*, own (of brothers and sisters); one's own brother; genuine, real, actual, true," related to germen (genitive germinis) "sprout, bud," which is of uncertain origin; perhaps it is a dissimilation of PIE **gen(e)*-men-, suffixed form of root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to *procreation* and familial and tribal groups.


'Germain' - like germinate?  Gene?  Are germans full men, ie genetically more pure?


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## Historyburied (Jan 12, 2022)

Fear and prayer just another product to harvest from an engineered livestock species

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXIPJjNOzwU_


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## feralimal (Feb 8, 2022)

Come back @usselo !!  

My thoughts and prayers (not preyers) are with you.


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## feralimal (Feb 14, 2022)

I just read this interesting article:
The Executioners Who Practiced Medicine - KnowledgeNuts

I want to pick out some quotes from it:


> the executioner [had] an unarguably intimate knowledge of human anatomy, and from that came the knowledge of how to put back together what they spent their days taking apart.  This led to the development of so-called "*executioner medicine*."


Plainly executioners are well placed to know about the human body.

(Perhaps this is a link we can still trace today, but in reverse.  Doctors are meant to heal us, but are actually hurting us - via the administration of vaccines and midazolam specifically, and more generally via iatrogenic causes of death.)



> This _hanged man’s grease_ (also called "_poor sinner’s fat_") was fat taken from the corpses of hanged men. It was believed to work as a salve when applied to limbs suffering from lameness or restricted blood flow, arthritic joints, and it even aided in the mending of broken bones. It was, of course, a commodity that executioners had access to in quantity, and allowed many of them to work as pharmacists and apothecaries as well as doctors and surgeons.


Human body products, from a medical perspective.  Interesting term - "poor sinner".  The executioner has access to all he needs to start a well-stocked apothecary/pharmacy too!



> In a 1662 manifesto, physician Johann Joachim Becher of Bavaria wrote that all apothecaries should keep an ample supply of no less than _*23 types of human by-products in stock* for the creation of different remedies_. One of these—and perhaps the most important—was *mummy*, defined as the “_menstruation_ of the dead,” or the blood of corpses.


In 1662, human body products _should_ be in apothecaries apparently.  Johann Joachim Becher certainly was not squamish in the harvesting of body products.  And the most important of these products was "mummy"??!  Is this liquor again?



> The executioner as doctor was one of the few professionals who were allowed to _cross the boundaries of the social hierarchy_ without stigma.


Well, if you don't want to have to get your hands dirty - you do need a go-between to get the bits you like.

I want to touch on the word 'mummy' a little more.  Does the above give us a bit more insight into the word?  This is the dictionary definition:


> 1a : a body embalmed or treated for burial with preservatives in the manner of the ancient Egyptians
> b : a body unusually well preserved
> 2 : one resembling a mummy


(from Definition of MUMMY)

We are familiar with Egyptian mummies, and 'mummy' is also the word for mother in the UK.

I had never heard of it with regards to the 'blood of corpses' though.  Perhaps the term has a longer history than we realise.  I find the link to 'mother' interesting too.  Something to ponder.

---
Bonus word: '*carnival*'
I have also think I have made a little breakthrough on the word 'carnival'.


> Folk etymology is from Medieval Latin carne vale " '_*flesh, farewell!*_' " From 1590s in figurative sense "feasting or revelry in general." Meaning "a circus or amusement fair" is attested by 1926 in American English.


(from: carnival | Etymology, origin and meaning of carnival by etymonline)

I'm in agreement that carni- relates to flesh, but I disagree on what the -val/-vale suffix stands for.  Vale could be valley - I'm not sure it means 'farewell' too.

However, we do see 'val' in other terms.  Eg in:


> valor
> c. 1300, "*value, worth,*" from Old French valor, valour "valor, moral worth, merit, courage, virtue" (12c.), from Late Latin valorem (nominative valor) "value, worth" (in Medieval Latin "strength, valor"), from stem of Latin valere "be strong, be worth" (from PIE root *wal- "to be strong").


(from valor | Etymology, origin and meaning of valor by etymonline)



> ad valorem
> type of customs duties based on _the market value of goods_ at the original place of shipment, 1711, Modern Latin, "(in proportion) to the *value*"


(from ad valorem | Etymology, origin and meaning of phrase ad valorem by etymonline)



> value
> c. 1300, "_price equal to the intrinsic worth of a thing_;" late 14c., "degree to which something is useful or estimable," from Old French value "worth, price, moral worth; standing, reputation" (13c.), noun use of fem. past participle of valoir "be worth," from Latin valere "be strong, be well; be of value, be worth" (from PIE root *wal- "to be strong").


(from value | Etymology, origin and meaning of value by etymonline)

I'm pretty certain that the suffix '-val' is derived from *value* and its Latin equivalents, not farewell or whatever.

So, a literal take of 'carnival' is "*flesh-value*".  It sounds like a _meat market_.  Why the celebration?  Is it that the meat is celebrating nowadays?  The meat is happy not to be on the platter?

I'm also *amazed* (and yet, _not_ amazed) that etymonline doesn't make that connection!  You'd think it was obvious, especially to their team of etymological experts!!  Just an oversight, I guess..


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## feralimal (Feb 20, 2022)

huskofahuman said:


> This dude thinks that they didn't create us, they just merely modified us.  I really like how he thinks, he has a lot of good videos. Check him out.
> 
> 
> _View: https://www.bitchute.com/video/mcgfN7ZTVdU/_



I think this chap is good too.  I can't dismiss the idea of a spiritual soul trap where the trap is not just in the physical realm, but in the after-life too.


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## feralimal (Mar 2, 2022)

Michael Tsarion - 'The Materialist Paradigm Is Crumbling' - Common Law News

Michael Tsarion apparently holds similar-ish ideas to those we've discussed here.


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## ProfessorHotStuff (Apr 11, 2022)

The abundance of English examples of child-eating Bogeymen on wikipedia is interesting, as well as the apparently universal nature of the story of child-eating troglodytes/demi-humans/societal outcasts that one must be wary of Bogeyman - Wikipedia

Like most people here, I tend to take folktales of these kinds as illustrative of real threats, presented in a memorable way. Someone must have been out there eating kids. (However, full disclosure: I'm not yet a parent myself and so I can't vouch for how appealing it may be to scare the hell out of your children by manufacturing fictional monsters.)

That's not to suggest that it was a universal practice. Some cultures may have simply echoed stories from other places. I know it's merely Wikipedia, but the cluster of English boogeymen makes me think that, at the very least, the incidents of cannibalism were either more common or more recently remembered in England.


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## feralimal (Apr 30, 2022)

I still think about this thread (the best speculative thread ever, imo) so have kept a collection of odds and ends to add to it.  Its a mixed bag, but here's what I have recently bumped into that relates to it.  Sorry its a bit of a mess, but I'm going to dump it here without much fuss.

*Tunnels:*

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SDSKz_fCos_

tunnels in Ramsgate - interesting footage (not sure about the commentary though)

*Words:*
Garden of eden, sounds like:
Garden of eating/eaten

*Science:*
Windows to the Soul: Pupils Reveal ‘Aphantasia’ – The Absence of Visual Imagination - Neuroscience News
Aphantasia (literal trans. 'without fantasy')


> Summary: People who experience visual imagination have pupillary responses that optimize the amount of light hitting the retina and change in response to imagined items. This pupillary response does not occur in those with aphantasia.


that is talking about people whose visualisations aren't visual.....  that they are creating a test for it.  Are they creating a simple test, or is the test part 2 of the experiment where part 1 aims to debilitate visualisation?  Could vaccines etc cause this sort of visualisation damage?

Tetrachromacy - Wikipedia
Aphantasia (literal trans. '4 colours') - but humans are trichromats (ie 3 colours)


> Tetrachromacy is the condition of possessing four independent channels for conveying color information, or possessing four types of cone cell in the eye. Organisms with tetrachromacy are called tetrachromats.


Tetrachromacy sounds a bit like the switching off of certain abilities at a biological level.

Both these medical conditions (Aphantasia and Tetrachromacy) hint at the idea that we are a designed creature.  It seems that (for the farmer) it would be ideal to turn off further parts of us.  If entities that engineered humans for some reason, perhaps this is something they addressed.

*Mega Theories*:

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7oVwGIAYeU_
A bit of a broader take on what the control system may be. (2013)


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J96E6X_tsIY_
Robert Monroe - the earth as a loosh farm

*Cannibalism in the MSM:*
The Gruesome History of Eating Corpses as Medicine


> “The question was not, ‘Should you eat human flesh?’ but, ‘What sort of flesh should you eat?’ ” says Sugg. The answer, at first, was Egyptian *mummy*, which was crumbled into tinctures to stanch internal bleeding. But other parts of the body soon followed. _Skull was one common ingredient_, taken in powdered form to cure head ailments. Thomas Willis, a 17th-century pioneer of brain science, brewed a drink for apoplexy, or bleeding, that mingled powdered human skull and chocolate. And _King Charles II of England sipped “The King’s Drops,” his personal tincture, containing human skull in alcohol_. Even the toupee of moss that grew over a buried skull, called Usnea, became a prized additive, its powder believed to cure nosebleeds and possibly epilepsy. Human fat was used to treat the outside of the body. German doctors, for instance, prescribed bandages soaked in it for wounds, and rubbing fat into the skin was considered a remedy for gout.



I previously brought up the alternative use of 'mummy' here:
Evidence humans were created and traded as slaves, food, entertainment and material resources (IHASFEMR)



> Blood was procured as fresh as possible, while it was still thought to contain the vitality of the body. This requirement made it challenging to acquire. The 16th century German-Swiss physician _Paracelsus believed blood was good for drinking_, and one of his followers even suggested taking blood from a living body. While that doesn’t seem to have been common practice, _the poor, who couldn’t always afford the processed compounds sold in apothecaries, could gain the benefits of cannibal medicine by standing by at executions, paying a small amount for a cup of the still-warm blood of the condemned._ “The executioner was considered a big healer in Germanic countries,” says Sugg. “He was a social leper with almost magical powers.”


^^ we've talked about all this too.


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## Starman (Apr 30, 2022)

feralimal said:


> I still think about this thread (the best speculative thread ever, imo) so have kept a collection of odds and ends to add to it.  Its a mixed bag, but here's what I have recently bumped into that relates to it.  Sorry its a bit of a mess, but I'm going to dump it here without much fuss.
> 
> *Tunnels:*
> 
> ...





Much appreciation, feralimal, for keeping this thread alive.


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## Tipper (May 6, 2022)

Apologies if this has been answered previously in the thread, i'll go back threw and read properly after work.

Does anybody have the location or expected location of the Hertford and Royston tunnels that were mentioned earlier in the thread. 
I live close by and want to go look for myself. I'll be sure to return with any pictures i take. Thank you.


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## feralimal (May 6, 2022)

Tipper said:


> Apologies if this has been answered previously in the thread, i'll go back threw and read properly after work.
> 
> Does anybody have the location or expected location of the Hertford and Royston tunnels that were mentioned earlier in the thread.
> I live close by and want to go look for myself. I'll be sure to return with any pictures i take. Thank you.


Yep - I think its worth re-reading the thread and going through it in detail.

In this post:
Evidence humans were created and traded as slaves, food, entertainment and material resources (IHASFEMR)

there's a link to a pdf - it has a 'Tunnel Tales' section that might be interesting. One of the things it says is "these claims are unfounded". I would read that as "these claims are _founded_"  but that you are going to have to work a little harder to uncover them!


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## Lodestone (May 11, 2022)

Just now, while studying an old map of New York (state), I realized that the only anagram one can make from Mercator is Cremator.  Just wanted to share, as simple of an observation as that may be.

edit: duplicate word


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## usselo (Jun 13, 2022)

feralimal said:


> the best speculative thread ever, imo



and kd-755 said:


> Its all speculation though.



Yes, this is a weakness of the thread. The speculation was helpful while I was writing posts - like talking out loud to help structure the material while I was still working through it:





Your browser is not able to display this video.



_Clip from Mastery: How to Learn Anything Fast - Nishant Kasibhatla. __Source_

It has left several parts I'd like to update. Take the discussion with kd-755 about the worn steps of Swineshead cross. I suggested the cross' steps might have been the base of a well-used 'station' post - a gibbet for airship freight pick-up/drop-off. kd-755 said:


> My take on that is the stones behind the stocks look to me to be well worn down presumably from use.



Another possibility is that stones were used for knife-sharpening. Perhaps while taking bids to redeem 'sinners' held in the stocks. A marketplace redemption story triggered by being accused of a crime or on reaching age 12. From _Hidden East Anglia_ on March, Cambridgeshire:


> The Stone Cross in March ... possibly marking the site of an ancient market in the original village...
> 
> children were told that, if they walked twelve times around the topmost step of the cross base, they would hear the Devil 'sharpening his knives' 1
> 
> _1 Miss L. Morton of March: letter in the *East Anglian Magazine*, Vol.12, No.5, March 1953_



At the time, sharpening as a cause for the wear seemed just too odd to me. Adult humans - and taller entities - would not usually stoop down that far to sharpen knives. For human-sized creatures using crosses as knife sharpeners, a more likely usage scenario comes from St John the Baptist church, Alkborough:


> In front of the church can be seen the shaft of the churchyard cross which is very worn having for years been used as a sharpening stone.



In _Hidden Lincolnshire_, p10, Adrian Gray says:


> The medieval cross in the churchyard was supposedly used by 'Parliamentarians' in 1643 to sharpen swords, though it is also possible that the damage was done by men sharpening their arrows ready for a Sunday's archery practice.



I don't think a year's worth of conventional Civil War weapons-sharpening around Alkborough would account for the reported thinning of Alkborough cross's shaft. The arrow-sharpening scenario may be more likely, especially if Alkborough was offering  humans/hominids for target practice. The mounds and maze complex at Alkborough hints the site was in the humans-as-entertainment business.





Your browser is not able to display this video.



_I said: "Run!" Source: __Apocalypto (2006)_

But that doesn't help us with Swineshead. Perhaps the butchers were short. Human children perhaps. Or some other butcher with knife-sharpening needs might account for the steps being worn in this way:



_Blemiya on misericord in the V&A, London. __Source_​
From: V&A's caption for this image:


> This scene shows the activity of threshing corn. It may have been copied from a calendar illustration. The monsters at the sides are a kind of 'blemya', a fantastic man-eating creature with no head and a face in his chest. The ancient Roman writer Pliny the Elder and later medieval travel books mentioned 'blemyae' as though they really existed.




_Face from wall grafitti at St Peter the Priory church, Thurgarton, Nottinghamshire_​
I'd also expand the range of possibilities for the origin of the word 'celt' and church'. I thought 'celt' was likely to mean 'killed' or possibly a hot plasma cutter.  But 'celt' may come from the same root as 'keld', meaning 'warm' in Romance languages. Caldera, cauldron... And the enigma of Coldharbours.

feralimal said:


> Bonus word: 'carnival'
> I have also think I have made a little breakthrough on the word 'carnival'.
> 
> I'm in agreement that carni- relates to flesh, but I disagree on what the -val/-vale suffix stands for. Vale could be valley



There is a similar link between words associated with hills:

Mounds -> moot hills -> meet hills -> meat

Go through Georgian and Victorian antiquarian reports of mound excavations and you find many of those mounds have a lot of charring at the top, along with burned bones and pottery.

Many churches are - apparently - built on local high ground, the sites of former mounds. This is St Mary's, built on what's left of Holm Hill mound in Grimsby:


_Holm Hill remains beneath St Marys, Grimsby_​
From Moot Hills:


> Many moot, "mote" or "mute" hills are known by that name today. Others have local names such as Court Hill, Justice Hill, Judgement Hill...



Further on, Moot Hills says some hills were called 'Cuthills', 'Couthill' and 'Cuthil'.

So, possibly the word 'church' has the same origin as 'judge'. As in 'Divine Judgement' and 'The Last Judgement'. You can catch a possible transition from 'judge' to 'church' - and from 'chop hill' to 'chapel' - at ToPhonetics. Type in:


> judge church


and while we're at it:


> chop hill chapel



Set the voice to 'english_wmids' (though 'english_north' also works quite well). Then hit 'Play'...

It doesn't rule out earlier speculation that the word 'church' has the same origin as 'char', but may extend our understanding of the organisational processes; the selection system involved.

Moot Hills then quotes Francis Grose's Antiquities of Scotland, 1797, about pairs of hills, one used for judgment and the other for execution:


> ...folklore, tradition and the association of separate 'gallow' places names with moot hills on balance suggests that the usual place of execution was a separate 'gallows hill'.



Reverend 'Abrahami Prym', in Diary of Abraham de la Pryme, p138 reports seeing pairs of mounds (also called 'buryes') while travelling along the Humber's south bank:


> Not farr from this town (Burton on Trent) is two hills like butt hills, they say,


and


> As you come to this town (West Halton) from Whitten there is two great burys, hollow on the top



A lot of English town names end with 'bury' or 'borough'.

Another regrettable example of speculation is my suggestion that some human muscles are so big they were likely designed to be cooked as steaks. In the Cannibalism thread.

Since I wrote that, I've spent hours reviewing videos of the human gluteous. I wanted to see why it is shaped the way it is. Turns out it reflects the structural challenges involved with humans being a truly bipedal load-carrier. Rump steaks were probably just a 'nice-to-have'. I would like to have shared the hard work of reviewing all those gluteous videos. Especially the difficult work of deciding which one best demonstrates the beauty of this engineering miracle. But that would have been a big ask for a history forum.

Plamski also made a good point in post-104562. The hybrid human/chimpig piece is too important to leave out of a thread about IHASFEMR. For readers who haven't grasped Eugene McCarthy's hybrid human theory, this thread is a lot to swallow.

So for all the above reasons I switched research to a format that lets me update older existing material. I'm not happy with the format but I'll snazz it up eventually.

If humans are an engineered creature then  human intelligence must also be engineered. One implication is that, as creator(s) or management team, you are going to manage the information environment surrounding these engineered intelligences. Programming them. From cradle to grave.

If you follow that logic, then kids' programmes like In The Night Garden become very intriguing. Almost as intriguing as videos of the human ass. For example, you see the Moses/Noah/Havelock story set against Tartarian technology:





Your browser is not able to display this video.



_Iggle Piggle goes to sleep. Source: __In The Night Garden_

Maybe In The Night Garden is programming our babies. Preparing today's infants for tomorrow's science curriculum.

The following sequence carries an intriguing payload for people who suspect airships go back further than we've been told:





Your browser is not able to display this video.



_The Pinky Ponk. __Source_

Sane people see a mad TV programme. I see a Romanesque girl fond of Italian operetta, a naive, red-haired, woad-painted Briton, and an airship floating on fart gas.

It's even narrated by the man who played Claudius.

As creators/management team of an engineered intelligence, you're also going to pay attention to managing the information environment around the minds of those of your engineered intelligences that have realised they are engineered. And that have realised their information environment is engineered.

You watch them carefully sifting through the wash of data.

I eventually realised I didn't need to post publicly because these discoveries are visible at least as soon as I email or post them privately. Even perhaps as soon as I type. Internet monitoring is an old technology. Possibly, these discoveries are visible as soon as I find them. And even before - if, for example, they are being injected into my local information environment.

From my perspective as an engineered intelligence, there seem to be three dimensions of content to the wash of information. There's an orthodox narrative, a counter-narrative (which conspiracy theorists and the 'marginals' tend to focus on), and a third, humour-laden narrative. I could give examples but it would be indiscreet given the importance of current events. Presumably, the third narrative is enjoying the fun. As it should, IMO.

In Stolen History-style research, the third narrative sometimes appears quite serious and a fourth, more tenuous narrative seems to be having fun while hiding behind the third narrative. It's hard to characterise this because its presence is so tenuous - at least from where I am. Naturally, it's one of the things I'm scratching away at.

In Alternative Mega Theories feralimal said:


> I'm glad to have contributed, and will continue to update it when I have something more.



Yes, thanks from me. Please, do keep it coming.


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## Observer (Jun 13, 2022)

Thank goodness you're alive and well, Usselo! 

The entire 9 pages of IHASFEMR is wonderful.

I love the additional idea of Airships involved too!
And within that, the "Corpse Gas" idea is Genius:
archive.ph
archive.ph
archive.ph

Yes, everyone who gets IHASFEMR: Please, do keep it coming!




usselo said:


> I eventually realised I didn't need to post publicly because material is visible at least as soon as I email or post privately and even perhaps as soon as I type. It's just technology. Possibly, it's visible as soon as I conceive it.



Yes, Usselo, merely privately emailing/typing/thinking might let THEM (the engineers) see your most recent discoveries.

But Usselo, please remember: posting publicly is the only way to let US (the engineered) see your most recent discoveries.

So Usselo, please continue to share your ideas publicly, as your ideas might inspire future actual Revolutionary Action Output.


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## usselo (Jun 14, 2022)

Observer said:


> I love the additional idea of Airships involved too!
> And within that, the "Corpse Gas" idea is Genius:


Good point, thanks. I haven't compared the lifting abilities of fart gas versus putrefaction gases. I'm up for it but at the moment my living arrangements wouldn't tolerate it.

So, for those that can... The Pinky Ponk is a bloated gas-bag coloured lurid green with pink and yellow blotches:


_Green tinge just visible on my ex-wife's forefinger. __Source_​
'Pinky Ponk' rhymes with 'Stinky Pong'. Remember, it's infant minds that hear 'Pinky Ponk'. They can do things with consonants that adults can't. Or won't.

Corpses begin to putrefy three days after death. After internal bacteria run out of their usual blood-borne food, the bacteria start to consume internal organs, starting with the pancreas and intestines. The putrefaction stage is marked by abdominal and facial bloating as the bacteria excrete:

cadaverine gas
putrescine gas
approx 28 other gases
A meat diet apparently speeds up production.

Bear in mind that I haven't researched which, if any, of these decomposition products is lighter than air. Nor how to make them, other than reading up on home methane digesters and poking around the garage for parts.

Jesus rises three days after his death
At least the 'Egyptians' seem to have known how to make and manage gases, (first video in YouTube series) and
Excavated mounds frequently contain inverted pots containing bones:

_"...a recurring pattern of inversion is significant." __Source_​
Indeed.

I asked an archaeologist why urns are so often found inverted.

"To keep out the rain," she said.

I don't think so.


_Section through a Native American mound. Source: forgotten_​


Observer said:


> So Usselo, please continue to share your ideas publicly, as your ideas might inspire future actual Revolutionary Action Output.


Done.


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## Observer (Jun 15, 2022)

Gratitude. 

About the photo Usselo kindly posted, of a hand decomposing: hopefully readers realize it's just Makeup:
tinyurl.com/Makeup-portrayal-Decomposition

Still, hopefully readers also realize this high-level Human History topic sometimes requires graphic images.
Real graphic illustrations/photos/videos might appear here, or simply have links for the courageous to click.

This Hidden History of *I*ntelligent *H*umans created *A*s *S*laves, *F*ood, *E*ntertainment and *M*aterial *R*esources:
is a mature topic which includes (yet-far-surpasses) the "Eugene McCarthy's Chimp+Pig Hybrid" realization,
requiring courage to observe our bodies and stocks/castles/churches/judge-hills/cut-hills/meat-mounds/etc.

So, hopefully everyone can be mature enough to understand: this may possibly be the ultimate Hidden History,
thus there is no need to avert our eyes or censor reality. Let's bravely observe and ponder: how can we be free.
We, who were engineered to be eaten by age 12 - still physically and mentally enslaved by cargo-cult remnants.

How can we use our tiny amounts of free-time to become self-sufficient and to enjoy slavery-free energy & food?
How can we cheaply put lighter-than-air gas into bags to fly high in the sky or at the very least: lighten our loads?
Imagine each backpack has its own small, cheap, lighter-than-air balloon which makes life easy: to walk/run/jump.
Now imagine such weight-reducing gas-balloons attached to all our transportation vehicles, reducing all fuel needs.
This is just one example of actual slavery-reducing freedom-increasing ideas being inspired by Usselo's ideas so far.
Here we are, the descendants of the engineered, pondering: are the descendants of the engineers still here in Earth?
We're still enslaved by company/government/hidden parasites. Are they still eating our bodies, or now just our labor?
Are current rulers of Concave-Earth just ultra-selfish humans successfully copying the no-longer-existing engineers?
Or are original engineers and their children still existing here, with lifespans of hundreds/thousands/millions of years?
I don't really know, I can just speculate, as Usselo is doing here and as Feralimal is doing on his Mega Theories thread.


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## feralimal (Jun 15, 2022)

usselo said:


> Sane people see a mad TV programme. I see a Romanesque girl fond of Italian operetta, a naive, red-haired, woad-painted Briton, and an airship floating on fart gas.


Lol   So glad to see you back @usselo.  I'm looking forward to seeing what you've got in store.

Meanwhile, I'll dump another lot of partially relevant miscellany here.  

*Some word bits:*
The garden of Eden or the garden of eating?
Kindergarten - Child garden
Nursery - Where kids and trees are 'grown'
(I've a feeling some of these might have been mentioned already!)

*Tunnel Info:*
Rabbit hole in farmer's field leads to 'mystery caves'


> According to local legend, the Caynton Caves, near Shifnal, in Shropshire, were used by followers of the *Knights Templar* in the 17th Century.





> Their original purpose is shrouded in mystery, but Historic England, which describes the caves as a "*grotto*", believes they were probably built in the late 18th or early 19th Century - hundreds of years after the Templar order was dissolved.




_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maDTJsGgmD0_

Rabbit Hole Leads To Medieval Templar Cave - Shropshire

*Giants:*
Väinö Myllyrinne - Wikipedia


> He stood 224 cm (7 ft 4 in) and weighed 141 kg (22 stone; 311 pounds) at the age of 21, but experienced a second phase of growth in his late thirties, attaining a height of 251 cm (8 ft 3 in).



My memories about Uncle Väinö


> The joints of Väinö’s feet were worn, and he had also diabetes, but still he hoped to improve his health. Romanian Anna Aslan had developed Gerovital, some kind of youth medicine. Väinö heard about that and decided to test it. It was impossible to buy the medicine in Finland, but Väinö’s sister Alli, living in Sweden, acquired Gerovital for Väinö. Väinö took the medicine for many weeks, but it was not helpful. Väinö felt more refreshed, but nothing else.
> 
> In autumn of 1962, Väinö fell flat on the front stairs outside the house while going out, and could no longer walk. Doctor Laine-Ylijoki tried to treat him at home, but after about two weeks, Väinö had to be driven to Töölö hospital in Helsinki. Väinö’s hip was fractured. The surgeons nailed the fracture together, but Väinö did not heal. He was carried from one hospital to another. He died at Sädehoitolaitos, a hospital mainly for patients who had cancer, on 13 April 1963. Väinö received radiation to his pituitary gland, apparently for an adenoma of that gland. *My father either never learned never  told us the reason for Väinö’s death. I tried to find get the answer from the hospital in 2006, but they would not tell it even to the closest relatives.*



He had health problems because of the height ('worn feet'), but not serious ones like other giants with pituatary gland issues.  He died at 54, not in his 20s.  It sounds like the doctors may have had something to do with his death.

Its very interesting that he had a second phase of growth in his late thirties - perhaps this is how natural giants grew?

In all Vaino sounds far more like a "natural" giant.  He was strong, served in the army, had no real health issues on account of his height.  Unlike most of the other known tall people, he lived with his height in a normal way - was he a natural giant?

In other giants news, I have a personal debunk...  I visited a house - it had been built in 2 parts.  As I stepped into the house, I was amazed how high the ceilings were, how large the doors, how high the windows - I'm not short but I could hardly reach halfway up the sash window in order to open them.  I then saw other parts of the house, these were more typical of a farmhouse.  I asked about the house and about the high ceilings.  Ancestors of the family that lives there still had built it.  They explained that the typical farmhouse was built first, then the extension with the high ceilings.  They also pointed out some old black and white photos they had framed on the walls, that showes the older farmhouse _without_ the 'giant' extension.  The owners themselves were tall, but not giants.

So, in that case, where I had a chance to get some more information, it did not support the thesis.

*Misc, fun*

_View: https://youtu.be/OQPGZxj1bXk_

Great video compilation of bone displays

Shock and fear amid South Africa cannibalism case
2017 article, detailing use of cannibalism in South Africa, as part of 'traditional healing'.


_View: https://youtu.be/OQvt-gxbq5E?t=917_

a man who eats roadkill comments on cannibalism - timestamped


_View: https://youtu.be/tWsNfoiU-_4?t=88_

UG Krishnamurti makes the point that monastries and prostitutes go together - timestamped




usselo said:


> Yes, this is a weakness of the thread. The speculation was helpful while I was writing posts - like talking out loud to help structure the material while I was still working through it:


PS - I said 'speculative' not in any pejorative sense - I meant this as a statement of reality.  We can't know what happened, so _by necessity_ any ideas _have_ to be speculative. The main point for me, is that the evidence should lead the theory - this thread is attempting to put together a mega-theory of how we came to be where we are. I think the exploration of the theory and evidence is valid.


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## usselo (Jun 17, 2022)

feralimal said:


> *Tunnel Info:*
> Rabbit hole in farmer's field leads to 'mystery caves'
> 
> 
> ...



From Rippingale, Lincolnshire:


> Methodism began in Rippingale about 1817 due to influences from Aslackby



What kind of influences? The Rippingale page doesn't say. Presumably the influences were promoting Methodism or some proto-version of Methodism. I haven't researched Methodism but I expect it was promoted as some more responsible worldview than the relative freedom-of-thought that seems to have come in (for a short while) after the end of pre-1651 foodal 'Catholicism'. Relatedly, Quakerism also seems to have developed just before Methodism and have been very against the use of church structures (because they associated churches with the Devil) before becoming more tolerant of church services.

What the Rippingale page does say is:

When Methodism in Rippingale: 1817. And:
Where it came from: Aslackby.
From The Torrington Diaries (Abridged), published 1954, edited 1934, and allegedly written in 1791:


> at Aslackby, somewhat out of the Aslackby road, stands a turreted building, call’d the Temple, from being I suppose, part of a preceptory belonging to the Knights Templars, 28 and of such places I know several bearing this name.
> 
> 28 Aslackby was the preceptory of the Knights Templars about the time of Henry II to 13 24.



Byng writes about Aslackby as though the buildings and their Templar residents had gone by the time of his visit in June 1791. But the 'Knights Templar' seems to have continued long after it was dissolved (in around 1312). Earlier posts in this thread about Hertford have (now-broken) links to some evidence that it continues today. And I've speculated that the 1642-1651 English Civil War was a climactic (literally) battle in a war between the Templars/Lords/Lairds and some other power, with humans as the lucky beneficiaries.

So perhaps it is possible that the belief system (actually an economic system) that preceded the Civil War, tried to get another foothold after defeat.

Similarly, there is evidence that a switch from natural furniture created from bone, moss, wood and tree roots, upholstered with fabrics made from horse and human hair... to furniture that monopolised cotton, wool and wood was more or less complete by 1791 but the old ways were still reappearing.

Byng's account of his visit to vicar Wolley Jolland's Louth 'hermitage' on pp363-364 of The Torrington Diaries (Abridged) can be read as an example of the old ways coming back. Jolland built a grotto. He built it by the late 18th century. Visitors Byng and Col' Bertie discussed how it might be marketed as a sort of living museum. More on Jolland here.

Jolley's hermitage build-date is more or less co-temporal with Historic England's view of Caynton. Perhaps tendrils of the previous regime lingered on. Specifically, its skill-set and its desire for 'a living'.

The Lincolnshire 'stuff' balls held to promote wool (and apparently to create more children) - see earlier in this thread - also took place around the same time as Byng visited Lincolnshire. The idea that wool needed promoting in this way tells you that three resources were needed at that time:

warm clothing
children
new habits around new fabrics.
The hair mill post earlier in this thread obliquely hints that choice of raw materials for fabrics was in transition. Reading this thread, it's not hard to see what it was transitioning from and to.

Summary: Theological thought changed and the resources used for production changed. Both changed very recently - in the 16th and 17th centuries apparently. But odd physical and theological 'constructions' continued into the 18th and 19th century. Presumably these were eventually reformed in the (alleged) 1812 events and 1914+ events.



feralimal said:


> *Giants:*
> As I stepped into the house, I was amazed how high the ceilings were, how large the doors, how high the windows - I'm not short but I could hardly reach halfway up the sash window in order to open them.


Sounds like an ideal location for lighter-than-air gas experiments.



feralimal said:


> PS - I said 'speculative' not in any pejorative sense - I meant this as a statement of reality.  We can't know what happened, so _by necessity_ any ideas _have_ to be speculative. The main point for me, is that the evidence should lead the theory - this thread is attempting to put together a mega-theory of how we came to be where we are. I think the exploration of the theory and evidence is valid.


Thanks. Actually, I had guessed the various posts calling the thread speculative or too true, etc, were just various users trying to manage the shock new readers might feel when confronted with it all. I didn't feel perjorated by that particular claim. I'm more bothered about not having perpetual editing rights, which is why I shifted to a format where I control editing.

The following is the kind of thing I would add to the 'pairs of hills' post above if the 'edit' window was still open. Dumping it here illustrates how the linear nature of chat forums scatters evidence as evidence accumulates. I mentioned pairs of hills, one for judgement and the other for execution. I gave explanations from Moot Hills plus a couple of Byng accounts of hill pairs from the south bank of the Humber. Another came my way this morning:

From Victoria History of the County of Bedford, page 10 about two low hills east of Sandy, Bedfordshire:


> A considerable quantity of sepulchral remains, pottery, and coins have been found from time to time in a field called ' Chesterfield ' lying to the east of the village, between two small hills on which are remains of earthworks, popularly known as ' Caesar's Camp' and 'Galley Hill,' about three-quarters of a mile apart



Given that peer review and academic journals are a progress-impeding pile, there needs to be a format for publishing investigative work that allows sharing and perpetual review/editing. I'm not thinking of the open science model though. I'm looking for a wholly different publishing and maintenance model. Something that allows a reader to say: what is the latest on lighter-than-air corpse gases? And to consume the answer quickly. Which means abandoning linear and text-heavy publishing models.

Zotero is the closest I've found to a method for 'stashing' evidentiary artifacts like the above in a shareable way. But it's not open enough for me. So I'm playing with git repositories and a separate front-end for publishing conjectors and conclusions in a quick-to-absorb way,


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## feralimal (Jun 17, 2022)

usselo said:


> I'm looking for a wholly different publishing and maintenance model.


Do you have a clear idea of what that would be?  Without a clear vision, I suspect its one of those things that can never be perfect.

I'm personally a fan of going as far as possible with something, and when I find I've reached a block then re-think it all and start again.  Although it seems a burden to re-start everything, discarding it all is also quite liberating - it allows you to hone in on whatever you thought was most interesting.  So, I continuously tear it all up and start again.  You still have the old as a reference.  So, I don't mind a simple text editor.

But obviously you have your own ideas.  I'd be interested to hear what you have in mind - probs the people around here would be interested too given they manage research too.  It would be great to have the main themes, best research, etc, naturally 'bubble up' and have a 'contents page' functionality automatically available, with little effort or continuous sifting of data, nor a big commitment from the reader.  It would be great to get the idea at a glance and then delve deeper if you are interested.  Perhaps this is what you thinking of?  Which sort of lends itself to a tree structure, or graph of associations...  But that's quite a hard (slightly scary!) task.  Amazing if you got it right, of course.


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## usselo (Jun 18, 2022)

feralimal said:


> Do you have a clear idea of what that would be?  Without a clear vision, I suspect its one of those things that can never be perfect.


Quite clear. Not complete.

Philosophically:

Enable content from much more diverse sources than academia currently does.
Automate what is automateable.
Pay attention to what engages and what disengages. Act accordingly.



feralimal said:


> I'm personally a fan of going as far as possible with something, and when I find I've reached a block then re-think it all and start again.  Although it seems a burden to re-start everything, discarding it all is also quite liberating - it allows you to hone in on whatever you thought was most interesting.  So, I continuously tear it all up and start again.  You still have the old as a reference.  So, I don't mind a simple text editor.


I'm with you on that: iterate your way to a workable solution (be agile, fail fast and all that). This is easier if there is no commercial goal of course.


feralimal said:


> But obviously you have your own ideas.  I'd be interested to hear what you have in mind - probs the people around here would be interested too given they manage research too.  It would be great to have the main themes, best research, etc, naturally 'bubble up' and have a 'contents page' functionality automatically available, with little effort or continuous sifting of data, nor a big commitment from the reader.  It would be great to get the idea at a glance and then delve deeper if you are interested.  Perhaps this is what you thinking of?  Which sort of lends itself to a tree structure, or graph of associations...  But that's quite a hard (slightly scary!) task.  Amazing if you got it right, of course.


It's too early to claim it's finished. I'm iterating... There may be several levels of perfect and each level may change with technological advances and as the viewership's understanding develops. Here's what I've got so far. Some principles first, so we're sure we're looking at the same terrain.

I'm assuming a three-part publishing model:

Content production: (research, writing, finding/preparing imagery and video, explanatory tools (eg, maps, diagrams))
Editing: too complex to summarise here so summarised a bit below.
Publishing: rendering the final content to a consumable form
Unpacking each of those parts:

1. Content production: content should be unique where possible but is therefore more time-consuming and work-heavy. Its challenges call for human creativity. The 'unique' requirement sometimes interferes with quality and scheduling. So, quality and scheduling challenges call on human flexibility for solutions.

2. Editing: This is a complex one but I suspect a lot of editing could be automated with, for example, online tools. Not all though. So editing can be only be semi-automated.

3. Publishing: must be automated. A reliable, computer-handled rendering of content-assemblies into consumable, enjoyable, shareable content.

These three parts are very different from each other (and within 'Content Production', text production and editing is very different to image/video production and editing). Taken together though, this model invites the standard approach for implementing automation:

Use human creativity and flexibility in the unpredictable part: content production.
Automate the predictable parts of editing; retain human intervention for the unpredictable parts.
Automate all publishing.
Editing is a tricky one to discuss in any concise way. So let's try. Some parts of editing are easy-ish for computers: spelling, punctuation, possibly grammar and syntax. Translation is semi-automatable so why not also publish in the most widely-spoken languages?

But 'editing' also encompasses tone, 'look' and the use of juxtapositions to create implications, irony, humour, surprise and delight. The gibbet post uses a number of juxtapositions; the decomposing hand post uses two examples, one obvious, the other fractionally less obvious. These are much harder to automate. Maybe silicon AI can do it now. I don't know.

So that's the terrain.

This IHASFEMR thread - and its earlier posts in the Cannibalism thread - moved from text-heavy posts to mixed text- and video-heavy posts. One reason was that videos are more engaging than images, which are more engaging than text. Sure, history geeks like history text. But for anyone else, moving images and static images grab more attention quicker, and are more likely to be shared.

This holds true no matter how witty or erudite your text.

Any publishing model has to build this in if it is to compete for attention. In practice it means: turn content into small, preferably visually impact-full chunks that users choose to interact with or not.

I began to prototype a content-production and publishing system to test these ideas. It doesn't fully implement all the above, but it does implement what I could create with my strengths and with my weaknesses and in the time I've put into it so far.

Once it had enough content to be presentable, I showed it to a couple of younger people. I wanted to see what they cared about that was missing and what they didn't care about that was present.

Predictably, they had little interest in reams of text (though history students that are safely protected from academia might be interested in irreverant, long-form text). They enjoy short video clips like this one:





Your browser is not able to display this video.



_Operetta offended John Byng's German sensibilities. Source: __In The Night Garden - Daisy's Big Loud Sing Song_

They enjoy irreverance, preferably iconoclastic irreverance - delivered as video and images. This is useful feedback about what constitutes engaging content that viewers are happy to share among themselves (ie, make viral).

They are much happier with symbols and images for navigation than text. So they appreciate a clickable image carousel much more than my attempts at wryly humourous headlines. I hadn't anticipated that.

The implication is that image creation, selection and linking is way more important than mastery of English and headline-writing. Very contrary to traditional 'serious' publishing.

I've only just started asking for feedback but it's already clear that text should be used to hold pieces of content together rather than to dominate the content. Text as glue rather than as content.

Now, tools...

For the presentation side - the bit viewers see:

They remark with surprise about the speed of it (on their smartphones) over a data link (ie outside where there is no high bandwidth WiFi). How was speed achieved? By minimising javascript in rendering and instead using CSS wherever possible. This goes against the current default practice, which is unquestioned use of JS frameworks to cut effort, costs and risks.

For the content production side:

Diverse content production - eg from non-academics and non-historians and non-English-speakers - requires distributed content assembly and production. For the text part of my experiment, that means using git or similar. Writers don't have to learn much to use git to contribute. Git is great for any diverse, distributed group working on text-as-content and text-as-glue. But today 'diversity' includes a new participant: computers. Computers get git naturally because git was written for them. So the publishing model I'm looking at needs git because with git, computers can automate version control (and other technical aspects of production and publishing).

You must know where I am going next: markdown. Content production and editing in markdown reduces inconsistencies and enables computer mediation of text (both of text-as-content and text-as-glue). Computers can read markdown, which means markdown enables automated and semi-automated editing in a way that binary content formats such as .docx, etc, can't.

However, not everyone is happy with a text editor. The prototype I'm working on uses Obsidian as the content editor. But I use vim with the content too. You can use whatever editor you want - as long as it can handle markdown. Obsidian and vim are interchangeable for me but for most people Obsidian would be more fun to use. Especially for reviewing written work and links.

I think I outlined to feralimal in a private message some months ago how RoHT is auto-published by a 'git push'. The prototype I'm currently working with uses a variant of the same. It's a bit technical so I won't go into it here but feralimal can share it if it's useful. I will say that captions for images, videos, maps and diagrams are a publishing standard. Sometimes italicised. But markdown does not support captions. I coded caption support into my system. It took about two hours to write and test. So, although markdown doesn't support captions, the consistency of markdown made it easy to add caption support elsewhere in an automated publishing process.

I'm currently adding mapping (Leaflet) and diagramming. Mapping checks the 'visual not textual' box and enables location-based user interactivity.

As the discussion about Ewaranon shows, video is where information publishing is at. Graphics aren't my skillset so I clip videos with ffmpeg - as often demoed in this thread. But the reality is: animation and video creation skills are now a must-have.

If I could create animations, I would have said all the above in a short cartoon. 

Returning the thread to IHASFEMR... and the association of crosses and churches with the Devil...

As in post-114599 above, we find another example of how reaching a certain number - this time 13 - makes the Devil appear at a church. From Akenham, Suffolk:


> Walking anticlockwise around the church of St Mary thirteen times is said to be a sure way to make the Devil appear.1
> 
> 1 The Paranormal Database



Why did 17th century Quakers oppose the (re)building of churches?

From _The Diary of Abraham De La Pryme, the Yorkshire Antiquary_, published 1870, allegedly written around 1697, second footnote on p140:


> Ye quakers are ... mighty backward to pay anything of dues to ye churches.
> 
> ...awhile ago I was with ye pious and learned Mr. Tho. Place, Winterton, who told me, that when he began at first to build and repair that church, that there met him suddenly in the street a grave old long-bearded quaker, who accosted Mr. Place thus : ' Thou Place, (says he) I have a message to thee from God, who commanded me to tell thee that thou must desist in going out this work of the devil, ye repairing of ye steeple-house of this town ! ' And then ye quaker stamped at him, and denounced several woes against him if he did go on.



Why does so much East Anglian folklore support this Quaker's point of view? At this Hidden East Anglia page, we see folklore frequently associates the Devil with churches, most often claiming the Devil had a lot of say in where churches were built.

As if the Devil were the lord of the manor.


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## Starfire (Jun 22, 2022)

I'm new to this site, but not it's ideas. I just spent the better part of a week reading this entire thread and it's links (that still worked). The disparate clues come together to form a pretty convincing theory that the churches managed humans as merchandise. It all fits, like missing puzzle pieces in my years of research/ truthseeking. I will look and ponder and add to this thread as indicated. 
The thread had a lot of good info on the most recent cataclysm too, which connected some other research I've done. I will post those thoughts on the appropriate threads.


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## BusyBaci (Jun 23, 2022)

The serial show Westworld season 4 would be released this June 26th. I wish they show some more clues related to this thread like the 1st season did. Season 2 and 3 were pretty useles. They only showed that AI which was controlling the course of events and creating the timeline for humans in the future.


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## usselo (Jun 24, 2022)

BusyBaci said:


> The serial show Westworld season 4 would be released this June 26th. I wish they show some more clues related to this thread like the 1st season did. Season 2 and 3 were pretty useles. They only showed that AI which was controlling the course of events and creating the timeline for humans in the future.


Thanks for the heads up - I'll look out for it.


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## Starfire (Jun 24, 2022)

A few years ago I read the complete Book of Jubilees. This is an original Biblical book that got "lost" and was recovered/translated from the Ethiopian Bible in the 1700's. It is a version of Genesis through Moses with a lot more details,  laid out on a series of "weeks" (7 years) and "Jubilees" (49 years with a 50th Jubilee year).
In this book there are REPEATED admonitions against consuming blood and blood products from animals and humans. The modern version of a verse might have one line about it, while the Jubilees version of the same story will have several verses with specific detail to avoid blood. Other modern verses might not have the admonition at all, while the Jubilees version makes sure you know to stay away! It's been a couple years so the parallel instances I looked up are not fresh enough to recall exactly.

Here is a link to Jubilees as a youtube audiobook with the written word on the screen nice and large so you can listen and read at the same time. I find information gets remembered better if you utilize two or more senses to learn it.

_View: https://youtu.be/V-55RSyJoB4_


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## usselo (Jun 26, 2022)

Starfire said:


> The disparate clues come together to form a pretty convincing theory that the churches managed humans as merchandise.


I struggle to figure out when England's churches were really built.

There's a lot of evidence that all - or most - churches were (re)built between the late 17th century and the late 19th century. Did 'churches' exist at all before then? I suspect they were built from, and on top of, the ruins of non-church structures left over from a century of physical reformatting.

What were these structures used for before the reformatting?

At a guess, they were towers, chapels and small workshops, usually within walled enclosures. But I doubt they were used as 'churches'. No more than they were built by _Homo sapiens sapiens_.

If no churches, then it follows that the Christian 'Church of this' and 'Church of that' probably didn't exist before the middle of the 17th century either. Did Christianity, in any of the forms we know it, including gnosticism, exist before the middle of the 17th century?

It seems more likely that Christianity is - like the three branches of government - a system of cargo cults. Not just cargo cult relics, but a deliberately implemented system of cargo cults. Implemented to contain and slowly modify the cultural remains of what had existed before. Presumably to install morality, rationality and a restricted knowledge-set into the sentient but savage creatures that survived the reformatting. I expect the implementers are still working on developing human empathy.

I would drop this view tomorrow if I saw enough evidence to support a different model. (There is evidence for a variant of this model but not enough to be post-worthy.)

These structures that existed before churches... The evidence suggests they served a farming and manufacturing culture. That is: a materials processing culture. But not like ours. Food that was more about meat protein than carbohydrates. Chemistry centred on organic chemistry. Structural materials that were more likely to be grown than manufactured. Things built to last where necessary and be cheap and easy to repair/replace where necessary. And just as easy to dispose of. That's not to say they were technologically backward. I don't think they were.

This scenario explains why we see abbey-toirs, chop-halls, fryer-ies, mon-asteries and nunneries, manor (farms), parishes (perishes), etc. Perhaps 'priories' is a label for structures that were not easily explained or which were inconvenient to explain. Churches seem to be built from and on top of the ruined - sometimes mudflooded - remains of all these buildings.

As for the institutions that used and managed all that before the reformatting... It looks like lords/lairds owned the agricultural complexes and the Guilds ran the processing and industrial side. What we call 'Catholicism' seems to have been a kind of leisure business or retail complex. 'Judges' seem to have played a role in certain 'recycling' decisions - most obviously in response to crime and perhaps poor performance. But, otherwise, recycling ran to timetable. To the clock. To 'oroligio':




Your browser is not able to display this video.



_Papa Song's Papal Chantry. Source: __Cloud Atlas, 2012_

The server's blue uniforms reflect earlier days in the 'hospitality' industry.

Conventionally, we think English churches were physically enlarged over time. We imagine they were extended as congregations grew. Somewhat like this:



_Incremental extension of St Leonards Church, Hythe, Kent over the last 1,000 years. Source: __A Study of Post-Depositional Funerary Practices In Medieval England_​
That should probably say "_*Alleged* incremental expansion of St Leonards Church..."_.

But note St Leonards was built above a smaller structure (which reminds me of the structure beneath St Marys, Burwell, Cambridgeshire). Many churches are built over smaller structures in this way. Incorporating their remains. These structures are generally not 'church-like'. They were materials storage and processing buildings; the remains of industrial infrastructure. In the below, the grey lines mark the below-ground parts of St Brides' Church, London. The red outline was a bone warehouse, an ossuary (more details on this page of the Cannibalism thread):


_St Brides' Church, London.  Source: __A Study of Post-Depositional Funerary Practices In Medieval England_​The ossuary at Holy Trinity. Also discussed earlier:

_Holy Trinity Church, Rothwell, Northamptonshire. Source: __A Study of Post-Depositional Funerary Practices In Medieval England_​
Holy Trinity probably wasn't built wonky. It's been rebuilt.


_St Mary in the Marsh chapel to the south of Norwich Cathedral. Source: __A Study of Post-Depositional Funerary Practices In Medieval England_​
These images are all taken from Jennifer Crandle's A Study of Post-Depositional Funerary Practices In Medieval England. She points out that many ossuaries are below ground or half below ground. She includes various photos of what SH readers would call 'mudflooded bone depots'.


_Mudflood preserved the orderly stacking of the bones. Source: A Study of Post-Depositional Funerary Practices In Medieval England


Same ossuary. Source: A Study of Post-Depositional Funerary Practices In Medieval England_​
She interprets their semi-subterranean character in different ways. Here at St Anne's Charnel Chapel in Barnstaple, Devon, she suspects it was built partially underground for now-unknown religious reasons; and the ground was shovelled back from the walls at build-time to allow for bigger windows:


_St Annes Charnel Chapel, Barnstaple. Source: __A Study of Post-Depositional Funerary Practices In Medieval England_​I don't share that interpretation.

But she also concludes - and with lots of evidence - that ossuaries and charnel chapels were deliberately hidden during or after the Reformation (16th century). Access to them, she says, became denied. Knowledge of them - and the practices associated with them - was also encouraged to disappear. A clue lies in enigmatically decorated caves like the shell-covered Margate cave. Another in what are passed off as 18th century 'follies'. This list is from Christopher Sturman's _A Lincolnshire Hermit: Wolley Jolland (1745-1831)_:

Cloister floor paved with flints, pebbles and sheep's bones arranged in the shape of four-petaled flowers.
Second cloister floor paved with alternating squares of flints and sheep bones.
Oratory floor paved with highly polished horses' teeth.
Altar table made from highly polished horses' teeth.
Legs of hour-glass stand made from fangs.
Walls decorated with seashells.
Curtains decorated with snail trail slime.
Demand for teeth on that scale would create its own supply and processing industries:




Your browser is not able to display this video.



_Pick Your Own teeth. Source: __Cloud Atlas, 2012_

Teeth prices are not quoted in Wikipedia's rag-and-bone man page, but it says rag-and-bone men were paid tuppence for a pound of bones in 1851 London.

Clearly, the ossuaries have been hidden. Humans were encouraged to forget them and the practices that went on in them. This raises two considerations:

Whoever wiped the ossuaries from our memories had reasons for doing it. What reasons? Perhaps to give us time to 'round out' ourselves.
Whoever denies the existence of tunnels under England's villages, towns and cities has reasons for doing it. Some online entities hint that the tunnels are problematic. Others said the Romans built them to hide their 'provisioning'. This explanation for the tunnels is not credible if you believe the so-called Roman Empire was ancient; but more believable if you suspect the Roman Empire was a late medieval empire.
It's possible the ossuaries were hidden because the scale and nature of the harvest was provoking Kett and peasant rebellions. It's possible they were hidden because the Roman Catholic meat eaters knew interdiction had been threatened. (Apparently there were some warnings). But, unlike the ossuaries, the tunnels are being found. And their existence is being denied in a way that changes speculation about them from 'do the tunnels exist' to 'why is the obvious being denied?'.

Presumably to provoke the rational to think more about the tunnels. And eventually, the ossuaries.

If we were created - and quite recently - for food, fun, profit and labour-saving, it seems likely we are still under development and that 'The Churches of this and that' do know all this. Even if they are not the original implementers

I've gone into this in this post because my earlier posts used the words 'church' and 'Church' (and here) before I appreciated how new physical churches and their managing organisations might really be. My original speculations about churches and The Churches were crude. That kind of thing can get in the way of how you model out the role of 'churches' through history. Hopefully this post clarifies things - at least as I currently see them.

Blackdiamond said:


> have you lot found anything about The Guild, The mans choire (bricks icon) etc


The Guilds crop up as a name with a little description, but not much. In this respect, they are a bit like the missing stories of the mystery, miracle and mimic plays. I presume details of their activities have been minimised and sanitised for the same reasons the contents of the mimic plays were sanitised and minimised. The Guilds seem to be the McDonalds, Metro-Goldwyn-Meyer, Microsoft, and Military-Industrial Complex of the past. Maybe they really did (or still do) own a fast-food chain called Papal Chantries.




Your browser is not able to display this video.



_The First Catechism. Source: __Cloud Atlas, 2012_

'Mans choire' doesn't mean much to me. 'Choire' looks a bit like Romance language words for 'quarry' and, of course, 'choir'.

Note: Linking back to the various church and ossuary posts in the lost Cannibalism thread is no longer possible. But logged-in readers can read the archived version of the thread.


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## Observer (Jul 12, 2022)

usselo said:


> It seems more likely that Christianity is - like the three branches of government - a system of cargo cults. Not just cargo cult relics, but a deliberately implemented system of cargo cults. Implemented to contain and slowly modify the cultural remains of what had existed before. Presumably to install morality, rationality and a restricted knowledge-set into the sentient but savage creatures that survived the reformatting. I expect the implementers are still working on developing human empathy.
> 
> I would drop this view tomorrow if I saw enough evidence to support a different model. (There is evidence for a variant of this model but not enough to be post-worthy.)


Even if there isn't enough evidence, all your currently-developing variants are post-worthy.

C'mon brother, please share everything, as if today might be your final day! We want it all. 

PS: the archived version of the Cannibalism thread is now extra archived for posterity: archive.ph
I see as you mentioned: the pages (1-9) can be linked to, but not the individual posts themselves.
Linking to the individual posts strangely results in "Access Denied", even if one is logged in there.
So, when linking to that thread we can only link to a page, while telling the post number (e.g. "#8"),
or telling a certain phrase to search for on a page (e.g. "Perhaps eating humans plays a bigger role").
Actually, as you can see in those two examples, the extra layer of archiving allows us to point to posts.
Meaning, if you go here, then select a specific section, your url-address-bar will give you a selection-link.
So, you can use the selection-link. Here are all the Usselo posts from the now-extra-archived Cannibalism thread:
A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O, P, Q, R, S, T, U, V, W, X, Y, Z
This easy selection-link-creation ability is a nice feature of that Archive site (which hopefully will continue existing.)


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## Silveryou (Jul 12, 2022)

usselo said:


> Sheela-na-gig imagery.


There are various paintings and art in general portraying Jesus coming out of a strange looking portal. Jesus is the sacrificial Lamb.







​In any case all of this has brought to mind an Italian researcher who has his own YT channel and I followed him some years ago, although I forgot about him until now. He is a professor writing under the name of Mac Dèi Ricchi (https://www.youtube.com/c/MacDèiRicchi/videos - DEI RICCHI) and is ferociously anti-christian with evident communist likings.
In his reconstruction of the events described in the New Testament and its apocrypha, he arrives at the conclusion that "John the Baptist had been killed by Jesus and their relatives, who then consumed his body in a _cannibalistic rite_". So the sacrificial Lamb was in reality John the Baptist killed during the Wedding at Cana, from which descended the Easter festivity.

There is a video with a summary but it's in Italian even though the auto-translation seems fine.

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD9cC68VTe8_

He also thinks that Christians were carnivores who took over a previous vegan civilization.


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## usselo (Jul 13, 2022)

Observer said:


> C'mon brother, please share everything, as if today might be your final day! We want it all.


Good to know there is consumer demand.

The material to research increased a lot while I was writing the mounds and barrows post. There's a lot of literature and mound/tumuli/barrow sites offering clues about conditions before the 18th century (assuming the dating is correct). So output slowed down.

The question of 'who was preying and when?' is also taking a lot of time. We have the usual folkloric consumers - giants, demons, dragons, serpents, wolves, etc - and we have imagery like Chaldon, Surrey's, Seven Deadly Sins wall-painting:


_Overall view of Chaldon Seven Deadly Sins. __Source_


_Close up of Chaldon consumers. __Source_​This is the first imagery I've found that hints at pig-like consumers of (creatures that look like) humans. If there was farmer-cattle interbreeding, it may explain how humans acquired their pig-like characteristics, as proposed by Eugene McCarthy.





Your browser is not able to display this video.



_We became their favourite meal. Source: __Bullets of Justice, 2019_

Whichever entities arrange coincidences, thanks for arranging the timely discovery of _Bullets of Justice_. I got a lot of laughs out of it.

Given there are only so many hours in a day (you know how it is with oroligio), which areas of IHASFEMR research would you most like to hear about?


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## ProfessorHotStuff (Jul 13, 2022)

BusyBaci said:


> How could people would like to know more about these sick, twisted and perverted things is beyond me. I hope they get eaten by the naughty witch and be boiled in her soup. That's the most effective and a very unique straightforward way for them to find out.
> 
> My god, some people disgust me.


It's hard, but it's necessary to look unflinchingly for the truth.


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## Observer (Jul 14, 2022)

Observer said:


> PS: the archived version of the Cannibalism thread is now extra archived for posterity: archive.ph
> I see as you mentioned: the pages (1-9) can be linked to, but not the individual posts themselves.
> Linking to the individual posts strangely results in "Access Denied", even if one is logged in there.
> So, when linking to that thread we can only link to a page, while telling the post number (e.g. "#8"),
> ...



Dear Usselo, I created those 26 "direct links" ("selection-links") to your posts on the Cannibalism thread.
I mention this again here so it doesn't go unnoticed, since I added all that to the previous post using edit.

The plus about those links is one can point directly to the extra-archived posts. The minus is lack of video.
Since the videos are so essential (since our imagination [DMT-producing pineal-gland] organs are broken),
I guess you probably still will prefer to NOT use the archive.ph direct-links, since they strip out the videos.
And there's always a chance that the archive.ph records might one day be deleted, so that's another minus.
I really just wanted to throw an extra layer of archiving over the StolenHistoryArchive for backup purposes.
Anyway as you wisely pointed out earlier in this thread: a real solution is for you to create an improved site.



usselo said:


> which areas of IHASFEMR research would you most like to hear about?



Any (and all) areas you might have been reluctant to post due to concerns about reactions from naysayers.
Naysayers = humans overly obeying their Loyalty-loops, who require an Authority to admit some idea first.
Folks (one wasted time on pages 7 & 8 here) implying we shouldn't post ideas without sufficient evidence.
Those folks argue small details without seeing the big picture, and that causes free-thinkers to share less.

Such past arguments (online or face-to-face) cause free-thinkers to label grand ideas "mere speculation".
My positive encouragement is simply trying to justly balance out their negative demands for "evidence 1st".
I don't think we need "evidence 1st" before we share. First comes the idea, THEN we can look for evidence.

I remember as a child being surprised we're told to write what one thinks will happen before an experiment.
I thought a true scientist should just try an experiment neutrally to see what happens without any pre bias.
But then I realized it's better to invest our time in higher-chance experiments by 1st having the grand idea.
Having grand ideas comes from courageously NOT being afraid of negative words from idiots without ideas.

It's ironic: now, supposedly-scientific-folks demand one must have sufficient evidence 1st: before thinking.
Now ideas are preemptively shutdown "that's not a theory, that's merely a hypothesis or mere speculation".
Rulers have created a worldwide culture of regurgitators: whose boldest ideas just prop up the status quo.
Even the most non-mainstream scientists in the world self-limit themselves to ideas that won't sound crazy.
Sadly, people now are too scared to share their newest grandest ideas, since "Well, I don't have evidence."

Sharing ideas openly, without evidence, allows us humans the synergy of specialization: vital to happiness.
Some folks are better at and enjoy more idea production (and/or letting ideas come in from muses/reality.)
Other folks (the non-creatives) are better at and enjoy more: dirt-digging/book-researching for evidence.

The free-thinker has the grand ideas, which the non-idea-having busybodies can then look for evidence of.
The "researchers" can search for tiny traces of evidence of reality which the rulers didn't hide well enough.

Some people are relatively fine with slaving away for hours, sifting through authority-approved paperwork.
Those people have unfortunately stronger loyalty-loops which prevent them from realizing reality instantly.
These people read thousands of history stories, but still required a grand thinker to realize the big picture.

Thankfully, a rare percent of humans still have the ability to intuitively guess correctly about Earth Reality.
And, some of these rare thinkers amazingly have research skills too: like KorbenDallas, WildHeretic, Usselo.
I simply am encouraging all rare thinkers to continue sharing without limiting themselves to "evidence 1st."

First, a grand idea must be shared (e.g. eating humans being the reality), then, later, others can research.
Rare free-thinkers shouldn't self-limit idea-sharing based on the probable pooh-pooh reactions of masses.



usselo said:


> There is evidence for a variant of this [Christianity being - like the three branches of government ... a deliberately implemented system ... to contain and slowly modify the cultural remains of what had existed before. Presumably to install morality, rationality and a restricted knowledge - set into the sentient but savage creatures that survived the reformatting ... the implementers are still working on developing human empathy] model but not enough to be post-worthy.



I get excited by "I have another variant idea", then I get saddened by "but not enough to be post-worthy."
So, I encourage: "Even if there isn't enough evidence, all your currently-developing ideas are post-worthy."

By the way, it doesn't matter which flavor of yogurt "culture" (stagnant status-quo ideas) we were born in,
but still I'm interested to know, Usselo, were you born into Russian culture and then grew up in UK culture?
I make that "mere speculation" guess based on the higher-level intelligence I find in Russian free-thinkers,
biased by my knowing my great-grandfather was Russian Jew, but, I of course grew up in American culture,
but anyway, I also noticed that some of your idea sparks were sparked by the Russian thinkers you posted.
And, I see Italian-cultured Silveryou posted a idea by an Italian free-thinker, about Christian Cannibalism.

To the BusyBaci comment, notice: I'm not "happy" about eating of flesh (an act which is strangely popular).
I'm a lifelong vegetarian (who somehow naturally knew from before the ability to talk: flesh is not my food).
So, please know, what makes me happy is NOT the eating of humans, my happiness is from realizing reality.

I realized Cannabis and DMT are essential, 9-11 footage & victims fake, and we live within Concave Earth.
Thanks to the Cannibal thread & this IHASFEMR thread: I learned most of us are not being eaten currently.
So, though we humans were created to be eaten, look on the bright side: nobody is eating me or you, right?

It's kinda' like this: if a rare free-thinker pointed out the fact that all humans will die, that is simply reality.
Don't scold the free-thinker for pointing out Reality which the masses try every moment to avoid admitting.
Try to find the positive, for example: we have time before our bodies die, and our spirits might live on after,
and even in a nihilistic world in which spirits didn't live on, well, our children live on and hopefully theirs too,
(and even if you chose the action of internal-baby-killing / not having children, well your ideas can live on.)

So, just as the Reality-realizer should say "all humans die", so too, he should say "human-eaters ruled us."
Main point is: at least you aren't bowing down to allow your head to be chopped off by human-eaters now.
At least you aren't as stupid as humans a few hundred years ago who thought being killed was a blessing.
At least now you have the desire and the ability to live longer than the majority who were eaten at age 12.

If a high enough percent of humans living within Earth realized we were created/altered by human-eaters,
then that would motivate us to arrest/prosecute/imprison/kill the current helpers who are still enslaving us,
that would allow us to properly distribute equal access to the plentiful resources of Earth's 510 Million km².
PHS wrote above, "It's hard, but it's necessary to look unflinchingly for the truth." And, truth is: beneficial.

The lies about our history as humans until now have kept us physically and mentally self-enslaved too long.
When we became mainly free from human-eaters, we should've immediately killed the human-eater helpers.
There are so many of us rightly angry: human-eater helpers are trying to reduce our numbers, by all means.
Well, by all and any means necessary we must positively unite by sharing ideas about how to regain control.

Anyway, even if most humans can't even imagine the big idea of being free from rulers, the Reality remains.
The Reality is humans were eaten by human-eaters: ruling humans still try it though they get prion disease.
The Reality is if SOME of us humans have the intelligence to realize Reality, there is hope for us to be Free.
#1. Emancipate ourselves from mental slavery (history lies, status-quo) only ourselves can Free our Minds.
#2. Intelligence plus Courage is Essential (CBD increases Courage) to Free our Bodies from any/all rulers.
#3. If physically battling rulers seems impossible, then it's vital to be Self-Sufficient enough to walk away.

All that might seem off-topic, but it's related to the topic, since I noticed some problems needing solutions.
1 problem was the masses with loyalty-to-authority which caused Free-Thinkers to feel shy to share ideas.
The second problem was a reader assuming we're focusing on this "negative" Reality without Positive Hope.
I Hope now it's clear: First come Ideas about Reality, then Evidence, then desire for Justice, then Solutions.
OK, I return the microphone back to all Free-Thinkers here, you all know who you are, please keep sharing!


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## usselo (Jul 14, 2022)

Observer said:


> Dear Usselo, I created those 26 "direct links" ("selection-links") to your posts on the Cannibalism thread.
> I mention this again here so it doesn't go unnoticed, since I added all that to the previous post using edit.
> 
> The plus about those links is one can point directly to the extra-archived posts. The minus is lack of video.
> ...


Thanks for doing that. I appreciate how much effort it takes.

The videos are not always vital to the content. I put them in because they help readers imagine some of the ideas. Or, sometimes, because they're funny.


Observer said:


> Anyway as you wisely pointed out earlier in this thread: a real solution is for you to create an improved site.


My experiments with an improved site are experiments with how to communicate uncomfortable and/or complex ideas when there is no budget to pay for actors or animators. And in a smartphone-friendly way.

Also, with experiments and research, there's a role for a research-oriented, 'scratchpad' site for evaluating evidence and argument, and a role for a separate, more finished, presentation site. So at least two sites. I'd also share data in English, Chinese, Spanish just to start climbing over language barriers. More sites.


Observer said:


> Any (and all) areas you might have been reluctant to post due to concerns about reactions from naysayers.
> Naysayers = humans overly obeying their Loyalty-loops, who require an Authority to admit some idea first.
> Folks (one wasted time on pages 7 & 8 here) implying we shouldn't post ideas without sufficient evidence.
> Those folks argue small details without seeing the big picture, and that causes free-thinkers to share less.


These days I tend to think the naysayers and even some enthusiasts are just having a laugh. The main reason I don't post as much is because I'm not satisfied with my own processing of the evidence.

If you're referring to the conversation about Swineshead cross, cross-base and stocks on pages 7 & 8, I can see why it may seem a waste of time. However, being held accountable for inaccuracy prodded me to be more precise about which structure I was talking about. Kd-755's questions also helped me look more closely at the former co-temporal presence of yew and bone in and around churches. Which led to the laminates post (and its layers of gags) and the realisation that laminated organic products were possibly/probably fabricated on a very large scale in the past. At 'churches'. Which produces a lead into understanding which parts of 'churches' were most like to have existed before they were rebuilt in the 18th/19th century and re-branded as churches.

It also nudged me to pay more attention to the structure of the top of Swineshead cross and thence to the construction of other crosses. Although I haven't posted about it, from that developed the idea to examine various parts of church 'furniture' as animal feeding stations.

Particularly the furniture that was most often destroyed by Cromwellian 'iconoclasts': tombs and crosses.

It's great that so many second and perhaps even third order implications cascaded out of that part of the thread, but it is a shame that investigating them contributed to the posting rate falling away.


Observer said:


> but still I'm interested to know, Usselo, were you born into Russian culture and then grew up in UK culture?


Not to my knowledge but the various Russian-seeming posters on LiveJournal.ru, etc, are inspirational for anyone questioning mainstream history. Russian-language articles about quarried Earth inspired me to dig deeper, after the mysteries exposed by KD's Clueless Historians thread.


Observer said:


> I make that "mere speculation" guess based on the higher-level intelligence I find in Russian free-thinkers,
> biased by my knowing my great-grandfather was Russian Jew, but, I of course grew up in American culture,
> but anyway, I also noticed that some of your idea sparks were sparked by the Russian thinkers you posted.


Of course, they may not really be 'Russian'. My occasional references to 'coincidences' are nods towards the possibility that hints and clues are being dropped by agencies other than Russian free-thinkers or fellow-minded board users.


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## Potato (Aug 3, 2022)

I was discussing this thread with my son and he said I needed to check out this game, "Graveyard Keeper"



​The story begins as you are hit by a car and wake up in a sort of limbo world where you are told you are now the new Graveyard Keeper. It is your job to deal with all the dead bodies. You are forced to become a preacher at the neighboring churchyard and must process the dead bodies by extracting blood, fat, meat, bones, internal organs, etc. and selling them or utilizing them to craft products. The meat is sold to the villagers as food and there is an underground tunnel that leads from your mortuary to the cellar of the church. 

I've only played for a few hours so far but I look forward to seeing what other church/cannibalism connections they have included. This thread is the first time I've considered such ideas but this game was released in 2018 so the devs had the concept in mind for a good time before that. The creators of the game are Lazy Bear Games in Russia.


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## usselo (Aug 9, 2022)

Potato said:


> I was discussing this thread with my son and he said I needed to check out this game, "Graveyard Keeper"
> ​The story begins as you are hit by a car and wake up in a sort of limbo world where you are told you are now the new Graveyard Keeper. It is your job to deal with all the dead bodies. You are forced to become a preacher at the neighboring churchyard and must process the dead bodies by extracting blood, fat, meat, bones, internal organs, etc. and selling them or utilizing them to craft products. The meat is sold to the villagers as food and there is an underground tunnel that leads from your mortuary to the cellar of the church.


Cheers, that's a great find.

Perhaps workhouses will show up. Clearly a part of the infrastructure of human/hominid management. But did they sell also sell body parts?

From _The Body in the Workhouse - Death, Burial, and Belonging in Early Eighteenth-Century St Giles in the Fields_ (central London) by Tim Hitchcock, discussing (and dismissing) 1782 claims about a workhouse situated north of what is now Covent Garden:



> ... broadside pamphlet called _The Workhouse Cruelty: Workhouses turn’d Goals, And Goalers Executioners_, which added ever more tortured flesh to the tale of Mary Whistle’s treatment; detailing a series of earlier deaths in the workhouse associated particularly with the ill-treatment of decayed householders, and with the theft of body parts



The pamphlet attributes the problems to the workhouse's master and mistress: Matthew Marryott and Sarah Underhood. It caught my eye because a 'Marryott' crops up earlier in this thread in association with IHASFEMR-style farming and harvesting around Kings Lynn, Norfolk. 

And also because I'm trying to find the location in Lincoln, England, of "St Giles' Holes', which were close to a 'hospital' on Wragby Road. The hospital is now Lincoln Christ's Hospital School.

St Giles' Holes were described in the early 19th century as being soutterains (tunnels) and vaults whose purpose was (allegedly) unknown. Nearby St Giles estate was built as a council-owned 'garden estate'. However, it was - and still looks to be - a rough place to live. So I wonder if, after the destruction and re-population of the English Civil War, a population originally being reared in St Giles' Holes was housed in the council houses.

Also in that St Giles pdf link are details of central London's church (re)building program. With observations like:



> In 1710... a programme of building was set in train that sought to cater for London’s ever-growing population, and to repair its failing religious infrastructure. It was hoped that the new churches would both encourage a religious' reformation of manners’.



Notable items in that sentence are:

A date around 1710. Ie, post Civil War, collapse in progress of the Holy Roman Empire, Augustans/Hannoverians taking charge in England, first wave of 'Romantic' culture about to start in England.
It's a program, not a spontaneous surge of church building.
A 'reformation of manners' is the goal. IHASFEMR theory proposes manners were ogrish prior to the Civil War cleansing and that mopping up and development of manners has continued since.
Not new to anyone who has read the thread carefully. Just another piece of evidence tacked to the theory.

The Romantic writers and painters of Britain are interesting to examine. Without dumping a load of evidence that is easily available on Wikipedia, they seem to have been charged with rewriting the hideous past into something more palatable.

Romantic even.


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## ProfessorHotStuff (Aug 9, 2022)

usselo said:


> A 'reformation of manners' is the goal. IHASFEMR theory proposes manners were ogrish prior to the Civil War cleansing and that mopping up and development of manners has continued since.


That's interesting. My gut instinct is that such a program would be a system-wide promotion of obedience and docility. A feral every-man-for-himself population would certainly be harder to control and farm (either for taxes or meat). Excellent post, thank you.


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## usselo (Aug 10, 2022)

ProfessorHotStuff said:


> That's interesting. My gut instinct is that such a program would be a system-wide promotion of obedience and docility. A feral every-man-for-himself population would certainly be harder to control and farm (either for taxes or meat). Excellent post, thank you.


Yes, indeed.

People do seem to have become more conservative - more self-regulating - over the few decades I've been able to watch. As evidenced by, say, the alternative London of the late 60s/early 70s versus the brand and values-focused London of today. Obviously, this shift extends beyond London and beyond England.





Your browser is not able to display this video.



_They don't even know what "Don't Bogart the joint!" means. Source: __Fringe s3 e06_

Another example of the expansion of self-regulation might be the growth of Compliance Departments in the private (and presumably also the public) sector, versus the shrinking of operational departments. That is, an expansion of management focus towards compliance-management and away from development and production.

A rise in conservative mindset seems to be an outcome of increased economic risk. Where 'increased' means both: 'increasing number of risks' and 'an increase in the seriousness of outcomes when risk-taking does go wrong'. You can see a possible link between increased economic risk and the swing - starting decades ago - towards conservative politics versus innovative politics, towards consumption rather than experimentation.

You could re-read those three paragraphs substituting the word 'docility' for 'conservatism' and 'self-regulation'.

Was our increased docility induced deliberately and did this induced docility program start a long time ago?

Try this about the Grimsby, England, story of Havelok the Dane:


> its detailed depiction of working-class life in 13th-century Lincolnshire. It has been called a 'bourgeois' romance because of the high value placed on hard work, virtuous behaviour, and proverbial wisdom







Your browser is not able to display this video.



_Hard work and virtuous behaviour in modern Grimsby. Source: __The Grimsby Brothers_

"Hard work, virtuous behaviour, and proverbial wisdom" sound like the same manners that were being promoted by Bourne, Lincolnshire-based Bob Orm, Bob Manning, Fred Manning, and Bill Dodd. AKA - for any that remember - 'Bill and Bob'.

Havelock the Dane is unlikely to have been written before the English Civil War and more likely to have been conceived/written in the century up to 1800. So 220 years later, perhaps the drive for docility has been wildly successful. Perhaps today's Grimsby was always its goal:





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_"You will need to suffer more." Source: __Westworld s01 e10_

Investigating the 18th and 19th century romantics, you can find allegiances and proximities between entities who are credited (at a Wikipedia-level, at least) with romancing the past and with creating today's docility-enhancing political economy. For example, the very interesting Thomas Carlyle entity:


> ...wrote _The French Revolution: A History (1837)_ and became prominent. Each of his subsequent works, from _On Heroes, Hero-Worship, & the Heroic in History (1841)_ to _History of Friedrich II. of Prussia, Called Frederick the Great (1858–1865)_ and beyond, were highly regarded throughout Europe and North America.


Not to mention Carlyle making up writing the first biography of Oliver Cromwell - the alleged leader of England's alleged 17th century 'Revolution'.

Carlyle:


> ...occupied a central position in Victorian intellectual life, shaping such areas of thought as Romanticism, transcendentalism and medievalism; political movements such as socialism, conservatism, and nationalism; and artistic currents such as the Pre-Raphaelite Brotherhood, aestheticism, and the Arts and Crafts movement.



Paraphrasing to make the point:


> Thomas Carlyle shaped such areas as medievalism (ie 'history'); political movements such as socialism, conservatism, and nationalism


​"Shaped socialism, conservatism and nationalism..." Wow, Total Political Spectrum Dominance (TPSD)!


_"I've got a new angle. It's called Engels." __Source_​
Re-arrange 'TPSD' a bit and you get 'PTSD', which I see all around - much of it hiding under wine bottles.

Anyway, leaving my commentary out of it, there is plenty of evidence of a deliberate reining in of human intellectual discovery. From _Science under Control: The French Academy of Sciences 1795-1914_:


> a case study of carefully regulated scientific production encouraged yet constrained within a system of reports, prizes, and elections



Romanticism and the political systems that appeared alongside it would appear to be a veil created to:

hide our role as snacks, targets and playthings in an amusement park of the past, and
nudge our behaviour with a new set of role models.
So our enhanced docility might not have been a bad thing. Especially given some of the physical evidence presented in this thread. 'Docility' may even have been a prerequisite for Carlyle et al to get us to stop eating our children:





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_Payment in kind at the Guildhall. Source: __Bullets of Justice_

And the children of others_._


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## TheImp (Aug 10, 2022)

This thread has been quite thought-provoking to read through.

When mentions of Nocton were made previously, as an American imagining them said in a variety of UK accents, I couldn't help but imagine some of them come out closer to "nocturne" in pronunciation, leading to more imaginings as they related to this thread. In addition, I too am fond of dissecting words into parts for their literal meanings even if they are said to be unrelated. I couldn't help myself by looking up the origins of "noc" and "ton" and the results invariably lead back to "night/darkness/death" and "wineskin/barrel/cask" respectively. Definitely makes one imagine more things in relation to talks of "frothy blood" and such.


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## ProfessorHotStuff (Aug 10, 2022)

usselo said:


> Was our increased docility induced deliberately and did this induced docility program start a long time ago?


I definitely think so, especially in Europe and East Asia. A look at racial crime statistics shows that docility training has taken more in those races than others. If we were the ones descended from food animals and other locations' peoples are the descendants of early escapees that would explain it as well - they would have essentially recovered from their domesticated state to become feral for the purpose of survival in the wild. (If we were to look at Establishment history, I'd say Christianity is what increased docility in whites, but obviously my mind is open to what is in this thread).

This post is not intended to be a justification for "hate." I'm just trying to take a clear-eyed look at things. Anecdotally, my wife is only 1/4 Native American and she has an utter disregard for the laws of man - same for the NA side of her family.


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## Frits (Aug 10, 2022)

According to Hopi-legends 4 races were created: red, brown, yellow and white. All of them recieved a task to find the place to be called home. (in the books from Frank Waters and Dick de Soeten is this described). Racisme is a social-construct and introduced by TPTB to devide. People who stand op to each other are easily to control. And remember everything that happens that has to do with racism or anti-semetic issues is scripted.


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## ProfessorHotStuff (Aug 10, 2022)

Frits said:


> Racisme is a social-construct and introduced by TPTB to devide. People who stand op to each other are easily to control. And remember everything that happens that has to do with racism or anti-semetic issues is scripted.


Racism can be used as a tool of divide-and-conquer, I agree. Preference for one's own racial type however is born into people and is quite natural (I am not promoting any oppressive impulses). Race realism is an unpleasant truth, but it is the truth, as demonstrated by science performed before full top-down control of scientism by TPTB. I'd recommend the Minnesota Adoption Studies as a fairly clear-cut bit of evidence in favor of it. The omnipresence of big-money antiracist propaganda itself is quite revealing.

Back to the subject: the evidence in this thread seems to promote that the institutionalized human-eating trade was largely in Europe, and thus the docility we are discussing may have been first (or most) directed at Europeans. If we had more East Asian members, I'd be interested to hear if there were similar institutions and coverups where they're from.


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## feralimal (Aug 11, 2022)

My working working hypothesis is that there are at least 2 entities here, humans and another.  Perhaps we have one timescale of life, and they a longer one.  So when @usselo  talks about increasing docility, I see this as an attribute that can selected (by a long lived farmer).  Like how we can see changes when we select the tastiest tomatoes to breed or thornless blackberries.  You can read the excellent quotes as an expression of various parts of the control structure plainly expressing its managerial goals.

The other group seems to have access to humanity's "user's manual" - perhaps they can create all sorts of alterations via judicious use of environmental and social factors.  So perhaps they adjusted the terrain/biology/inputs for gigantism in the past, but that requirement ended so the giants disappeared.  Perhaps the main goal is for better food access (or some other idea such as spiritual energy harvesting aka loosh).  Perhaps docility or conformity is increasingly required now.  I'd say this is conformity is assisted most recently by minimising cultural differences, via screens and technology,  but surely science, culture, religion, education, etc did this most of this work in the past.

Couldn't you also argue being docile is another way of saying 'civilisation' or 'domestication'?  Being 'civil' requires one to be more docile, high density housing, education, neoteny, acquiescence to authority, etc all assist in the domestication process. Maybe vaccines are a part of that change process too, in this generation or the next.

Opposite words to 'docile' are such words as 'resistant' , 'contrary' , 'unwilling' - these are words I prefer to 'civil', 'docile', 'domestic'.

For me all that fits in to what I think of as the arch duality - that of the individual and the collective.  I think if we are left to our own devices humans can individuate and find something akin to a life purpose.  However, from the perspective of the other type of entity here, the one that has power, answers and longevity, clearly it would be far easier to manage a homogenous, docile collective.  It is harder to manage lots of individuals who reason and act independently - there is no herd to be managed.  And therein lies the reason why everything is bent the way it is - history, science are only incidentally related to truth, but they are fully subverted towards expedient management of humanity.



usselo said:


> Anyway, leaving my commentary out of it


I know I'm misconstruing this minor comment, but I think I have learnt _not_ to leave my commentary out.  I mean, if you don't have a commentary or narrative of your own, preferably based in reason, you will be provided one.. Provided narratives when accepted are a 'consciousness hijack'.  Accepting provided, unverified stories results in becoming collectivised to a greater or lesser extent.

Are your stories really yours, do they fit in with your experience?  Why do we believe things rather than know them?  What can we know, and what does knowing mean?  Of course you can hear other ideas, but are you integrating (parsing, testing, rejecting) ideas and making them your own or accepting them?  Isn't having others frame our lives for us our 'irresponsibility problem' our sovereignty problem - where we don't have confidence in our personal experience to act according to what we know, and defer to others?  What does it take to shake us from our stupor, how directly can people express reality, in the present and in history?  Is communication an impossibility, can one only develop oneself?

All that is perhaps too tangential and philosophical to the question of history in this thread.  But dammit, that's where this discussion takes me!

I guess the value of the ideas in this thread for me, is in the idea of cracking open of the historical narrative, and replacing it with a viable, alternative, conspiratorial one.  It seems more plausible!  The provided explanations of the nature of the experience we are having do not make sense!  It is not a natural unfurling of reality - that much seems clear, but it is a struggle to find the answers we seek.  Can it be done?  Usselo is trying.  To me, some part of the answer must be contentment with refining ourselves so we cannot get lost in another's story again.


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## usselo (Aug 11, 2022)

TheImp said:


> This thread has been quite thought-provoking to read through.


Have you enjoyed reading through it?


TheImp said:


> When mentions of Nocton were made previously... I couldn't help myself by looking up the origins of "noc" and "ton" and the results invariably lead back to "night/darkness/death" and "wineskin/barrel/cask" respectively. Definitely makes one imagine more things in relation to talks of "frothy blood" and such.


That's a good point on 'tun', as in 'cask' or 'barrel. I hadn't thought of that.

The 'frothy blood' meme is interesting. Other than trying to understand Selenadia's texts I haven't tried to discover more about it. However, I'm playing around with the idea that red blood cells and/or hemoglobin may have been used as catalysts in Gild-run fermentation operations. So, for example, blood may have been added to decomposing organic materials to help bacteria and/or yeasts produce particular gases more efficiently.

I can find evidence that iron-bearing chemicals are used to boost fermentation reactions but I'm not chemist enough to make much sense of them. And 'catalysts' is probably not the correct technical term for 'chemical helpers in fermentation processes' but, hopefully, you get what I mean.

Monitoring and occasionally stirring a vat of frothy blood (perhaps in the Laird's mausoleum) may have been one of those chores that we or our predecessors got to do a few times each day.

ProfessorHotStuff said:


> racial crime statistics shows that docility training has taken more in those races than others. If we were the ones descended from food animals and other locations' peoples are the descendants of early escapees that would explain it as well - they would have essentially recovered from their domesticated state to become feral for the purpose of survival in the wild.



I'm not sure any of us have ever escaped. An alternative way of seeing our position might be as like koi carp in a pond. We may no longer be eaten and we may even be the beneficiaries of a glorious, human-centred politico-economic system. However, we are constrained in a controlled zone and there are still fishing industries beyond the pond and beyond our ken. But I'm not knocking that point; I just think our ability to assess our visible and invisible realities are being restricted more than we realise.

Obviously the discussion on race issues expanded from your comment onwards. I do wonder about the physical differences between races and have researched them a little. That's because I'm trying to see the pragmatic benefits to our product managers of introducing our known racial anatomical differences. Personally I think the differences are more likely to have been about producing materials like vellum and contrasting hair colours/textures for upholstery, etc. But then, I would, given the 'Material Resources' part of IHASFEMR.

What we lack in discussions of race-based differences is hard data. The easily available data seems to be highly politicised. I've got some ideas about assembling evidence to get around that but it will take a while to collate and present.

feralimal said:


> My working working hypothesis is that there are at least 2 entities here, humans and another. Perhaps we have one timescale of life, and they a longer one.



The Doom painting - from this post - at St Peter and St Paul's church in Chaldon, Surrey, tells a tale. A tale of selection:



_Lazarus rises. Source: __Medieval Wall Painting - Chaldon_​
Close up:


_Some for the pot. Some for the top. Source: __Medieval Wall Painting - Chaldon_​
In the lower right of the top panel, one of the pig-demons is shown with bound wrists lying on top of a serpent or worm. Doom paintings usually show only humans being fed to serpents and worms.

Reading Stukeley, de la Pryme and Byng - and reading about Stukeley, de la Pryme and Byng - you can certainly see hints they had been alive for a very long time. For example, that Stukeley was 250 years old and that all of them had been involved with or seen times prior to the interdiction and final stages of the Roman Empire. By which I mean the so-called Holy Roman Empire. Qualifying that, of course, with the observation that their material on archive.org and elsewhere doesn't have a straightforward provenance.

I wonder if caricatures of gentlemen of these times show them as they actually were. With jutting chins, somewhat bony features and often a long-fingered, long-limbed appearance. Perhaps chalked wigs hid a lack of head hair. And then there are the creatures they claim to have seen or to have been told had been seen. Besides the sea serpents (Beccles, Suffolk) and the serpent-dragons (Ludham, Norfolk), there are accounts like this:

From _The Torrington Diaries - A Tour In The Midlands, 1789_, John Byng, p145, describing a fair at Sandy, Bedfordshire, dated 1789-06-01:



> There were many Pharoahs lean kine and some nags with several Slight-of-Hand Men, and a Learned Pig; for since the first of these learned grunting-Gentry, that was so much admired, the Piggish Race have improved amazingly in wisdom; and disperse their knowledge over the Kingdom at the very cheap rate of One Penny per Head.



Their own fertility - or perhaps the poor fertility of recently hybridised humans - is often hinted at. Their poor respiratory and digestive health (Byng and many others), the many child deaths, and many lords, dukes, etc that die without issue or die without male issue.

Also from From _The Torrington Diaries - A Tour In The Midlands, 1789_, John Byng:


> From this walk, a very hot one, I returned to another Glass of Brandy, and Water; overtaking upon the Bridge, a clean-looking Woman, leading two fine Boys, dressed in light Blue, the Livery of the great (Harper) Charity here; upon my admiring their Looks and Cleanliness, She Thanked God for her Luck in getting them upon so good a Foundation; and in giving her two such Healthy and well-disposed Boys, that were the comfort of her life.—There was something wonderfully pathetic in her Words and Looks; and her leading in either Hand, these her Hopes, Whom she alternately Survey'd with Fondness, and Transport.



IIRC, Byng refers to seeing 'six children created out of fermentation' or words to that effect. The Harpur quote above can be interpreted as a very conventional scenario. But it may also describe two 'incubator babies' or perhaps even fermentation babies.

feralimal said (quoting me):


> Anyway, leaving my commentary out of it
> ...
> I know I'm misconstruing this minor comment, but I think I have learnt _not_ to leave my commentary out.



Well-spotted. It was a double-entendre; the joke being that pretty much all of the post was commentary.

Now, returning to the discussion of manufactured human docility... I commented that docility may or may not be the ultimate goal. That it may be an intermediate step in an attempt to shift humans away from the ogrish role models they witnessed (and may have learned from) in the past. I'm avoiding making the claim that docility was induced to make us more farmable. It may have been. I just don't know and others are welcome to make the claim and argue for it.

What I am suggesting is that we've been steered away from a set of learned behaviours (and possibly built-in behaviours). I'm suggesting the strict discipline involving hard work and poor reward may be part of the toolset that has been - and is being - used to achieve this steering away from an ogrish past. It's conceivable that the goal is to make us more amenable. More comfortable to associate with. As opposed to more comfortable to play games with (as we seem to have been in the past). And as opposed to easier to tax/farm (as we currently are).

Continuing along this imaginative line, it's possible that we present a training problem. The problem being that we are sentient and potentially even intelligent. We are capable of receiving huge amounts of data and acting upon our interpretation of it. We're not a like a micro-controller processing a set of variables that will always lie within known parameters. We're not like a script processing a handful of variables. Or a program processing millions of data-points in a modern 'data science' scenario.

No, we can handle a huge amount of data in real-time and can physically react to it. For good or bad.

Looking at what has been entrained in us, seemingly since around the time of Carlyle, and looking at the way we've been entrained... Looking especially at the current focus of BBC news reporting (it's a narrow slice of world-view I know), I'm tempted to think a lot of work is going into teaching us to feel empathy. That is, to know what suffering is. Not only what it feels like, but to know within ourselves what suffering enables and disables. If you were our design team, you wouldn't want a capable, engineered intelligence like us near you if we didn't already have empathy.

Could be wrong of course. I have been before.

One of the problems of teaching empathy is: where the Hell do you start?

Where the *Hell* do you start?

This is a very provisional idea. But it would explain the introduction and teaching of formalised and semi-formalised partner and team activities. From partner dancing to nationalism:





Your browser is not able to display this video.



_Dance training. Westworld, 2016. Source: Westworld S01 Ep08_





Your browser is not able to display this video.



_Dance training, West London, 1958. Source: __Can't Get You Out of My Head (2021)_

I won't add a video of soldiers goosestepping in unison. But you can imagine it, I'm sure.

I don't know. What do you think? Is it possible humans were managed into docility and suffering at each other's hands so that we could begin to develop empathy?

Or am I simply being a docile supporter of the Authorities who farm us?


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## TheImp (Aug 11, 2022)

usselo said:


> Have you enjoyed reading through it?



I suppose I have enjoyed the read as much as one can when uncovering things that may be literal horrors beyond our limited comprehension (due to a huge lack of information). I think it's generally helpful to use different lenses to assess our history and try to puzzle out what we can.



usselo said:


> That's a good point on 'tun', as in 'cask' or 'barrel. I hadn't thought of that.
> 
> The 'frothy blood' meme is interesting. Other than trying to understand Selenadia's texts I haven't tried to discover more about it. However, I'm playing around with the idea that red blood cells and/or hemoglobin may have been used as catalysts in Gild-run fermentation operations. So, for example, blood may have been added to decomposing organic materials to help bacteria and/or yeasts produce particular gases more efficiently.
> 
> ...



It's funny that yeast keeps coming up, given our supposedly new yeast "improvements" that have been recently created by inserting human genes. How fortuitous for our discussion.


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## solarbard (Aug 11, 2022)

ProfessorHotStuff said:


> I definitely think so, especially in Europe and East Asia. A look at racial crime statistics shows that docility training has taken more in those races than others. If we were the ones descended from food animals and other locations' peoples are the descendants of early escapees that would explain it as well - they would have essentially recovered from their domesticated state to become feral for the purpose of survival in the wild. (If we were to look at Establishment history, I'd say Christianity is what increased docility in whites, but obviously my mind is open to what is in this thread).
> 
> This post is not intended to be a justification for "hate." I'm just trying to take a clear-eyed look at things. Anecdotally, my wife is only 1/4 Native American and she has an utter disregard for the laws of man - same for the NA side of her family.


"Utter disregard for the laws of man" What do you mean?


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## Frits (Aug 11, 2022)

usselo said:


> I don't know. What do you think? Is it possible humans were managed into docility and suffering at each other's hands so that we could begin to develop empathy?


Empathy is one of the special energies of the universe and it is natural behaviour; empathy is the power of the group/pack/flock/community et cetera. It has not to be developed it is all ready there, it is one of the bricks love is build upon. The other brick is fear.
Emotions only knows two things: love vs fear; everything can point to one of these two.


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## Citezenship (Aug 11, 2022)

usselo said:


> They enjoy irreverance, preferably iconoclastic irreverance - delivered as video and images. This is useful feedback about what constitutes engaging content that viewers are happy to share among themselves (ie, make viral).


Haha, this is so funny and yet very, so true that it is in fact deeply disturbing given the state of affairs and most likely an indication of why the authority deems us(the gen pop) to be children, lost at see(not a spelling mistake). it also explains why almost all popular culture uses symbology and subliminal que's to program us with techniques such as colour tuning and differing musical scales to lead us on emotional journeys through the medium of tele-vision and music, more often than not combining the two into a very powerful programming tool.

Like the song's that seem to make no sense when spoken but manage to programme the recipient with say a parable of a greek classic, why all the movies of the last 20 years convey the message that there is a saviour on the horizon, one could marvel(programming pun) at the matrix's power to spread a single message over such a diverse and wide ranging landscape.

It is funny to watch the people that watch and see them consume the medium like an opiate and feel and sometimes it seems even live other peoples lives through the medium we call the screen, it really is an insanely powerful tool, as we know with the drama that has played out throughout the last few years almost exclusively through the TV it seems that it has the power to change most peoples reality to the point where they will offer themselves as a sacrifice to the alter of the medium.

Sorry going off on a tangent there but maybe there is a connection to this thread, the medium of television and a technological way to get folks to offer themselves as a sacrifice(blood) for the gods.

Just writing what comes into my head from a perspective that sees past the programme.


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## usselo (Aug 12, 2022)

Citezenship said:


> Haha, this is so funny and yet very, so true that it is in fact deeply disturbing given the state of affairs and most likely an indication of why the authority deems us(the gen pop) to be children, lost at see(not a spelling mistake). it also explains why almost all popular culture uses symbology and subliminal que's to program us with techniques such as colour tuning and differing musical scales to lead us on emotional journeys through the medium of tele-vision and music, more often than not combining the two into a very powerful programming tool.


Good point - the programmable side of us is an aspect we haven't discussed much before now. Despite programming being critical to our development as intelligent humans suited for many different roles.


Citezenship said:


> It is funny to watch the people that watch and see them consume the medium like an opiate and feel and sometimes it seems even live other peoples lives through the medium we call the screen, it really is an insanely powerful tool, as we know with the drama that has played out throughout the last few years almost exclusively through the TV it seems that it has the power to change most peoples reality to the point where they will offer themselves as a sacrifice to the alter of the medium.
> 
> Sorry going off on a tangent there but maybe there is a connection to this thread, the medium of television and a technological way to get folks to offer themselves as a sacrifice(blood) for the gods.
> 
> Just writing what comes into my head from a perspective that sees past the programme.


Not a tangent at all. I agree the media is full of clues to our programming. Once you even begin to see it, you have to Marvel at how advanced, nuanced, and real-time it is. Our programming has come a long way since the early days:





Your browser is not able to display this video.



_And all out of love for us. Source: __Fringe s4 ep9_


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## trismegistus (Aug 13, 2022)

usselo said:


> Good point - the programmable side of us is an aspect we haven't discussed much before now. Despite programming being critical to our development as intelligent humans suited for many different roles.
> 
> Not a tangent at all. I agree the media is full of clues to our programming. Once you even begin to see it, you have to marvel at how advanced, nuanced, and real-time it is. Our programming has come a long way since the early days:
> 
> ...



I just watched Alex Garland's new film, and this is a perfect example for this topic.  I strongly recommend watching the film for anyone who has gotten this far into the thread, there is plenty to suggest a deeper and more thoughtful representation of symbols than simply a "story about the evils of men"


The entity haunting the main character is initially found in a forest in a small english village - inside the "old steam engine tunnels" long forgotten.
The woman meets this entity later as the Vicar of the local church - who's lust for her is uncontrollable.  He even goes so far to ask her when she lost her virginity.
In the church, and throughout the movie, features heavy usage of the Sheelah Na Gig, a symbol that precedes itself in this thread, and others.  According to an interview with Garland he had been trying to get the Sheelah Na Gig and the Green Man into a film for 15 years
At one point the entity performs an asexual anal birth of itself, the alchemical/esoteric imagery practically speaks for itself.
Its not unusual I watch a film with vague references to many of the topics discussed here - but frankly I have never watched a film with so many references that I could relate back directly to a specific thread.  If nothing else it is a testament to all the great research in this thread, pulling at what may be one of the biggest and longest running psychological operation in human history.


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## usselo (Aug 13, 2022)

trismegistus said:


> I just watched Alex Garland's new film, and this is a perfect example for this topic.  I strongly recommend watching the film for anyone who has gotten this far into the thread, there is plenty to suggest a deeper and more thoughtful representation of symbols than simply a "story about the evils of men"
> 
> 
> The entity haunting the main character is initially found in a forest in a small english village - inside the "old steam engine tunnels" long forgotten.
> ...


Ooh, how could any IHASFEMR researcher resist a write-up like that? I'll watch out for it.

I have noticed that ability of media symbols to reflect sometimes the issues examined in this thread. Somes examples of this are captured in various clips in the thread.

You can wonder if they are coincidence.

You can wonder if they are programming us to slowly (and individually) re-consider our past. A sort of slow-burning Disclosure project.

Sometimes they match so closely in quality and timing to something I thought that it feels as though my thought came before the programming. A good example from a couple of days ago:

I added the 'joint' video from Fringe to post-116107 about half an hour after I first saw the scene. I was watching that Fringe episode for the first time and broke off watching it to prepare and post the clip.

I added the 'Bogart' caption a few minutes after posting the clip. There is no obvious reference to Bogart in that Fringe episode (Fringe s3 e06).

So the Bogart caption felt like my own, original thought.

About an hour later I watched - also for the first time - the next episode of Fringe - Season 3, episode 7.

Towards the end was this bedtime scene:





Your browser is not able to display this video.



_Hey, don't Bogart that __fag__!_

What is happening here?

Coincidence
Perhaps the screenplay originally had Nina turning to Walter and saying: "Don't Bogart the joint". Followed one episode later by the film-makers taking the opportunity to slip Bogart into a TV scene. A cinematic homage.
Perhaps the editing team noticed how Nina turns towards Walter halfway through the clip and had the same thought that I had: it looks like she is about to say: "Don't Bogart the joint". And so they added Bogart in the next episode as a cinematic joke.
Or perhaps the 'Bogart on TV in bed' scene was added during the episode's production because earlier viewers had also quipped: "Don't Bogart the joint". I read somewhere that Westworld's plots were similarly changed while being filmed because fans were guessing the plots.
Perhaps all or most of our daily experience is made, manufactured. Perhaps our individual reactions and contributions are programmed into us the night before, while we are kept distracted by dreams. Perhaps these events are Fate in the French sense of the word. Fait. Made. So perhaps it wasn't my Bogart quip at all.
Our programming is a challenging aspect of IHASFEMR investigation. How are we programmed? What qualities can we use to distinguish programmed events from accidental events, from coincidence, etc...



trismegistus said:


> If nothing else it is a testament to all the great research in this thread, pulling at what may be one of the biggest and longest running psychological operation in human history.


Cheers.

That is the joy of this research. It seems utterly useless - and disturbingly macabre - to those around me. But it is getting at a pretty big set of questions.


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## Citezenship (Aug 13, 2022)

usselo said:


> Perhaps these events are Fate in the French sense of the word. Fait. Made.


fait accompli

noun: *fait accompli*; plural noun: *faits accomplis*

a thing that has already happened or been decided before those affected hear about it, leaving them with no option but to accept it.
"the results were presented to shareholders as a fait accompli"



mid 19th century: from French, literally ‘accomplished fact’.
​
An accomplished fact, how very appropriate.
​​


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## usselo (Aug 13, 2022)

Citezenship said:


> fait accompli
> 
> noun: *fait accompli*; plural noun: *faits accomplis*
> 
> ...


Yes. Our Fates accomplis.

Well, at least they are for those of us that are being programmed (are we accomplices in the faits accomplis that we experience?).

BTW I presume the board is populated by programmers and their customers more than it is by the programmed.

Consideration of being programmed does raise the question of whether or not it is possible to escape it. To bring more of your own decision-making into play. There are a whole bunch of issues around that. For example, I was once asked online if everything seemed to go wrong (to which the simple answer is 'yes'). But when I look at people for whom everything seems to go right, they are often somewhat 'templated'. They seem to follow a relatively consistent set of behaviours and 'tone' without taking the time to investigate the scenery on either side of the road they are on. They don't seem to try becoming a different person. I don't want to insult or demean them so I'm careful about committing thought to this, let alone making public statements about it.

Also, if you are going to consider how to escape your fait, you would need to understand how your fait is implemented. And you should certainly consider what you might find if you escape it. And whether what you find will add anything for you.  As well as whether or not you will add anything to what you find.

But I've gone off-topic. Off-program, as it were.


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## feralimal (Aug 13, 2022)

Programmed or programmer
Authorised or authority, author
Collectivised or individuated

One thing I think is clear is that we are programmed by stories.  What have we been told and then assume to be true.  Have we applied due diligence (reasoning) to an idea, or did it get past our radar, if you are even someone who applies a radar.

This is why I am cautious with all the artifacts of the system, even ones that seem supportive of whatever case I am drawn to.  Is it the system responding to me or is it me spouting back a previously implanted ideas or are we working in tandem?  Is it a cosmic synchronicity, or the inevitable echo of programmed behaviour?  Do these synchronistic events occur in nature also, or only in the provided sandbox (on screens)?

If I don't follow the TV shows (and I don't) then I hope I am at least minimising the opportunities to be programed.  Is it possible to create or understand reality on my terms, without provided stories?  Or is even the physical reality I perceive, part of the problem - is the whole world a stage?

Is understanding reality even what its all about?  Perhaps this reality is a shifting one, impossible to nail down.  Can it be escaped from?

Perhaps this experience at best is a hardening or forging process.  Is it possible that all we can do is hone ourselves, our analysis and approach, in order that we don't have to do it all again?  To give ourselves the chance of a chance (h/t chiron last), so that this time in death we chose differently and escape further cycles of reincarnation, if that is even the metaphysical terrain?

We know so little.


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## Frits (Aug 13, 2022)

feralimal said:


> We know so little.


I totally agree with that. I'm watching a documentary on secret wisdom and as a child I noticed patterns in objects and nature realising that that cannot occur by coincidence.


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## feralimal (Aug 22, 2022)

I stumbled across a couple of plausible, modern examples, that I thought I'd add here.  I'm sure there are loads more, but perhaps its worth having a couple of these examples to show that this sort of thing is not entirely historical.

1. Eating fetuses in China today:

_View: https://youtu.be/KQXV84bElpA?list=PLjfRfx8HVJL3lJHabgWFzVcR_LAJ_-qF1&t=242_

(timestamped to the part where this is discussed)

Sounds like a very practical, no-nosense approach - don't waste meat.  It also makes me wonder whether this is a more common part of Chinese culture because they have had to endure more recent starvation situations - and of course Chinese are well known for eating all sorts of things that we would typically avoid (brains, chicken feet, insects, etc).

2. Admitted use of humans in corporate food production.  A bit of a sensationalist, Christian take on things, but it checked out on wikipedia

_View: https://www.bitchute.com/video/dS09MWhIPipz/_


_View: https://www.bitchute.com/video/I9jBuUA1o63m/_

(the second has some potentially disturbing images)

The info in the first video is supported on wikipedia
Senomyx - Wikipedia


> Around year 2001, Senomyx patented several flavor enhancers by using "proprietary taste receptor-based assay systems", which have been *previously expressed in human cell culture*, in HEK293 cells.[2] HEK293 cells are a cell line widely used in biological and medical research, immortalized through a genetic modification removed from *the original human embryonic kidney cells taken from a healthy, aborted human fetus* in the early 1970s.[3]
> 
> The company's stock declined after *PepsiCo* reversed a trial rollout of Senomyx ingredients in their sodas in 2016.[4]





> Senomyx's products work by amplifying the intensity of flavors. _Because very small amounts of the additive are used (reportedly less than one part per million) Senomyx has no obligation to report their ingredients to the consumer._ Senomyx products fall under the broad category of "*artificial flavors*." For the same reason, the company's chemicals have not undergone the FDA safety approval[citation needed]. Senomyx's MSG-enhancer gained the Generally Recognized as Safe (GRAS) status from the Flavor and Extract Manufacturers Association, an industry-funded organization, in less than 18 months, "received a positive review by the Joint FAO/WHO Expert Committee on Food Additives, which determined that there were no safety concerns with the use of the Company's savory flavor ingredients in foods. The positive assessment by JECFA is expected to expedite regulatory approvals in a number of countries, particularly those that do not have independent regulatory approval systems."


"flavour enhancers" "artificial flavours"

Re the second type, it is just odd that this sort of thing is rolled out into the food we eat but is done in such underhand way that it isn't possible for the average person to know.  If you think that there may be something to homeopathy, and lots of people do, you would be concerned.


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## aaabbbccc (Aug 22, 2022)

I think even people completely wired into the mainstream would agree that, at the very least, it is plausible for this (The people from the top of the social hierarchy using the people from the bottom of the social hierarchy as common goods - to several degrees past manual labour -) to have taken place in the past, and I personally think the chances it isn't still taking place are 0.

There is a lot of information here, so I may have missed it, but where is the "Evidence humans were *created*..."? That would be the only claim that would be shocking to hear.


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## feralimal (Aug 22, 2022)

aaabbbccc said:


> I think even people completely wired into the mainstream would agree that, at the very least, it is plausible for this (The people from the top of the social hierarchy using the people from the bottom of the social hierarchy as common goods - to several degrees past manual labour -) to have taken place in the past, and I personally think the chances it isn't still taking place are 0.
> 
> There is a lot of information here, so I may have missed it, but where is the "Evidence humans were *created*..."? That would be the only claim that would be shocking to hear.



I haven't really delved into this book yet, but I think 'Humans Are Not From Earth' by Ellis Silver has a good list of issues to indicate that we are not a product of evolution.  I personally would disagree with a whole load of info in there (eg that the earth is 4.2 billion years old, planets, etc) but it seems like the evidence and questions he provides re humans and life on earth is easily verifiable.


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## aaabbbccc (Aug 22, 2022)

feralimal said:


> I haven't really delved into this book yet, but I think 'Humans Are Not From Earth' by Ellis Silver has a good list of issues to indicate that we are not a product of evolution.  I personally would disagree with a whole load of info in there (eg that the earth is 4.2 billion years old, planets, etc) but it seems like the evidence and questions he provides re humans and life on earth is easily verifiable.


Here is the problem I have with this:

People cannot answer the question of how it all began, and all they do is mindlessly insert complexity in-between the beginning and where we are now. The question of how it all began is un-answerable and un-verifiable, but people still try to "fill in the gaps", and we end up with useless theories and un-necessary complexity being added where-as the goal should be simplification, as, theoretically, complexity can be increased indefinitely and you never reach an ending.

I encourage you to try to think about true nothingness. I imagine everything I can observe with my own senses, everything I cannot observe with my own senses but assume exists and everything else I am not and may never have even thought about, all of it on a piece of paper, which gets progressively folded into itself until it is gone. The thought always makes me distressed because it is entirely impossible in the reality I live in.

The religious people say that "you cannot get something out of nothing". The people that believe in the Big Bang theory say "if there is a God, who created God?".

The real question is that encapsulates both of those over-used arguments is "how did the environment - that either allowed for a God to exist and exert its powers or for an explosion that created something out of nothing to take place - come to exist?".

We, as humans, have a set of concepts that seem basic and obvious and explain how our reality works. For example, if I am sitting right in front of you, you know I am not sitting behind you. Or, you have 1 red ball, and if I give you another, you now have 2 red balls. These are very basic ideas that get overlooked, and it is entirely possible that beyond our world things do not work the same way, and the only reason to assume there is even something beyond where we are now is that our common human concepts dictate that our reality isn't possible.

All of this, as I have said in the beginning, leads to a question with endless possible answers (Some of which you may not be even able to vocalize since they do not fall within our common human concepts), but all of which are unverifiable.

All of this text is just to say, perhaps we should aim to reduce complexity instead of increase it by trying to fill in the gaps then keep adding more and more information as more and more contradictions and issues appear.


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## feralimal (Aug 22, 2022)

aaabbbccc said:


> Here is the problem I have with this:
> 
> People cannot answer the question of how it all began, and all they do is mindlessly insert complexity in-between the beginning and where we are now. The question of how it all began is un-answerable and un-verifiable, but people still try to "fill in the gaps", and we end up with useless theories and un-necessary complexity being added where-as the goal should be simplification, as, theoretically, complexity can be increased indefinitely and you never reach an ending.
> 
> ...



Dare I suggest, this sort of question is better discussed in my alt. cosmology thread?  We all get a bit effusive at times here..
Alternative Mega Theories

In general, I don't disagree with your post.  What I would say, is that there is the terrain, and that something happened.  We are provided a story about what happened, but we think we can say that provided story is false.  Whether that is by intent or accident, is a matter of debate, but many of us are convinced it is by intent.

If so, what is the value of the intentional deceit of history?  One way to attempt to answer that question, is to see what is possible to put together from what you can confirm for yourself.  This thread for me is interesting, as it refers evidence that can be verified for oneself (and I have personally verified some of it) and applies alternative possibilities - ones that we may find hard to conceive of, given our education, etc.

Is the attempt to understand history ultimately going to be a fruitless task?  I think so - we can only establish the truth of a thing in very narrow circumstances - and in my view, history, even one's own history, cannot be known.  But we can progress various hypotheses, see how the evidence falls, etc - we can take a best guess.  And, if that thinking/processing results in providing us as individuals with a clearer-eyed view of reality, that may better inform us in our daily actions.

In my view, the research we do is learning about ourselves.


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## Gladius (Aug 22, 2022)

feralimal said:


> Is the attempt to understand history ultimately going to be a fruitless task?  I think so - we can only establish the truth of a thing in very narrow circumstances - and in my view, history, even one's own history, cannot be known.  But we can progress various hypotheses, see how the evidence falls, etc - we can take a best guess.  And, if that thinking/processing results in providing us as individuals with a clearer-eyed view of reality, that may better inform us in our daily actions.
> 
> In my view, the research we do is learning about ourselves.



The concept of history being 'stolen' can be compared or equaled to an actual, real world crime.

Let's say there was a gang, a sophisticated one, and they made certain criminal acts. If they really did a good job covering it up, such as disposing bodies, burning documents, killing witnesses, and impose an unbreakable code of silence till death, then the evidence will never be found. The investigators could convince that a crime was done, but not to find a smoking gun, or to find what happened in reality. In time, all the collaborators pass away.
Nearly every criminal investigation in the world is solved either by:
1. Finding the weaker link, imposing leverage on that person, and thus incriminating all the involved.
2. Finding physical evidence, left due to the criminals doing a sloppy job.
3. A witness is alive and is not afraid to testify (risk of death).

The falsifiers are no street gang, and they do not fall in any of those criterias. They're not perfect, of course, and that's why we get to have a forum like this with plenty of evidence. But if a job is done well, you'd never find it.
Think how many crimes in the world were never discovered, and never will be.


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## feralimal (Aug 22, 2022)

Gladius said:


> The concept of history being 'stolen' can be compared or equaled to an actual, real world crime.
> 
> Let's say there was a gang, a sophisticated one, and they made certain criminal acts. If they really did a good job covering it up, such as disposing bodies, burning documents, killing witnesses, and impose an unbreakable code of silence till death, then the evidence will never be found. The investigators could convince that a crime was done, but not to find a smoking gun, or to find what happened in reality. In time, all the collaborators pass away.
> Nearly every criminal investigation in the world is solved either by:
> ...


I'm not sure I see what you mean.  I don't think you are hoping for a court to correct the record.  Or expecting the deceivers to be held to account.

Maybe you object to my saying understanding history is a fruitless task?  This might be a question of definitions - what is 'reality', 'truth', 'knowledge'?  I say that we can only _know_ (in a strong sense) very little.  Even our memories are fallible.  I dreamt there was a tree in a place I know - when I was next there I fully expected to find it, I even searched for it but it was not there!  If that's what can happen to personal experience, I hope you can see how when it comes to indirectly interpreting historical sources I think our handle on the truth is even less firm!

Anyway, your definitions of truth, reality, etc may be different to mine - what you call 'truth' or 'reality' might be what I would call 'best hypothesis'.


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## Gladius (Aug 22, 2022)

feralimal said:


> I'm not sure I see what you mean.  I don't think you are hoping for a court to correct the record.  Or expecting the deceivers to be held to account.



Obviously not 


feralimal said:


> Maybe you object to my saying understanding history is a fruitless task?


I was in fact adding to your statement, not objecting.


feralimal said:


> This might be a question of definitions - what is 'reality', 'truth', 'knowledge'?  I say that we can only _know_ (in a strong sense) very little.  Even our memories are fallible.  I dreamt there was a tree in a place I know - when I was next there I fully expected to find it, I even searched for it but it was not there!  If that's what can happen to personal experience, I hope you can see how when it comes to indirectly interpreting historical sources I think our handle on the truth is even less firm!
> 
> Anyway, your definitions of truth, reality, etc may be different to mine - what you call 'truth' or 'reality' might be what I would call 'best hypothesis'.



So in short, I meant that it's seemingly not possible to find what happened in reality, aka the real history, because the cover up was done too well, and they're still taking care of the loose ends to this day. Even if a smoking gun was found, the belief in the power of the matrix is too strong among the masses and the public servants as well.


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## usselo (Aug 23, 2022)

aaabbbccc said:


> There is a lot of information here, so I may have missed it, but where is the "Evidence humans were *created*..."?​


Inside us.

Some evidence and discussion about the general idea of designed biology:


_Nano Motor. __Source_​
I got that from https://sibved.livejournal-com/276960.html (Russian original) (English translation). Apparently it is self-repairing. A handy feature in engineered biology.

More:

Living organisms - bioengineering projects!? Part 1 (Russian original) (English translation)
Living organisms - bioengineering projects!? Part 2  (Russian original) (English translation)
Living organisms - bioengineering projects!? Part 3 (Russian original) (English translation)
Living organisms - bioengineering projects!? Part 4 (Russian original) (English translation)
Living organisms - bioengineering projects!? Part 5 (Russian original) (English translation)
Living organisms - bioengineering projects!? Part 6 (Russian original) (English translation)
Living organisms - bioengineering projects!? Part 7 (Russian original) (English translation)
Living organisms - bioengineering projects!? Part 8 (Russian original) (English translation)
This thread has discussed three modes of creation of humans:

1. Accidental or deliberate genetic alteration of pig and chimpanzee DNA to create a hybrid pigpanzee which was subsequently back-crossed with chimpanzee to create a pimpanzee and then backcrossed again to - ultimately - create us. Chimpigs.

More on this below. Summary: The mistake that keeps hybrid human theory from being considered is the ubiquitous belief that hybrids are sterile and that different species cannot inter-breed:



_Le dije a su madre: "Esta noche es 14 de febrero. Ninguno de nosotros debería estar solo". Source: __The Other Parent_​
That should be an animated gif. Visit the source or click on this post's attachment to see it in action.

2. Creation of humans by fermentation. This is caught in this thread's various links to 'Selenadia' and in a 2020-08-11 reference to John Byng claiming to have seen babies created by fermentation in the 18th century.

I'm still collecting argument/evidence for this so nothing I can add. Other than that I wonder if 'kist-vaens' were fermentation/impregnation vats.

3. Alcohol-fuelled repopulation parties hosted by the 18th century elite. See post 104000 and post 104455. For context, you'd probably have to:

follow the link to _Revelations of an Imp_ and
have accepted the thread's evidence for the depopulation of eastern England by approximately 1750.
Beyond that, there's nothing else I can add to this one either. So, returning to item 1: manipulation of DNA to create humans:

Eugene McCarthy interviewed on Grimerica:
#232 – Grimerica Talks Hybridization, Stabilization, and Macroevolution with Eugene McCarthy Phd
Interview starts from: 1 hour, 2 minutes, 45 seconds in.

Here's the first couple of minutes:





your_browser_is_not_able_to_play_this_audio



_Darwinism promotes evolutionary gradualism. Stabilization theory promotes evolutionary 'salting'. Source: __Grimerica #232_

McCarthy doesn't go deep into how human hybridisation occurred. But he touches on it in a very listenable set of interviews with Brothers of the Serpent podcast:

Evolution and Hybridisation Start of McCarthy's book being read is at 1 hour, 35 minutes in.
Hybridisation and Species
Hybridization and Humans
On first hearing the Brothers of the Serpent interview, the question I had was: "accidental hybridisation or deliberate?" Your opinion will depend on your personal preferences but I'd vote for deliberate genetic splicing rather than randy apes humping pigs in the hazy aftermath of an iridium catastrophe:


_Doesn't work for me but your taste may differ. __Source_​
Seeing that picture brings to mind a woman I used to work with. Behind her back, her opponents called her "Miss Piggy". She was hard-working, smart and funny. The nickname was entirely due to internal resentments. And the optics.

As previous posters have hinted, there is also an option that we (and presumably other creatures) were created from a wider range of animal DNA than simply the DNA of chimps and pigs. As I understand it, the option is that DNA isn't unique to individual animal species and that individual animal species were/are created by selecting and manipulating the DNA from a soup or dough of all DNA. The most translate-into-Englishable summary of this argument that I know of is yyprst's 'Without a Suck, Life Sucks' (Russian original) (English translation), which has plenty of imagery too. I think this is what the less easily translatable Selenadia entity was also getting at.


_Unexplained artifact. __Source_​
Whatever you make of the main argument, I'd also read the alleged events and the year in yyprst's post: 'UFO 1608 Death by Terror' (Russian) (English translation). Bearing in mind this thread's claim that at least eastern England appears to have been depopulated by the middle of the 17th century.

Anyway, an implication of being a created species is that you are also a managed species. Assuming your creators have not moved on.

If you go with the idea that humans were created and are still managed, you can also reframe your understanding of the minds of 'conspiracy theorists'. You can see conspiracy theorists as being in the early stages of recognising some of the management techniques that are being used on their own species; the management of their own human species.

As a conspiracy theorist you are in a better position to see evidence that some or all media-delivered 'Reality' is an information wash. A gouache of deceit but deceit delivered with a purpose. The purpose being species management. Not mere crime-hiding but herding of the  species by changing the variables presented to it. This is not hard once you make the conceptual breakthrough to 'managed species'. And, of course, to conspiracy theorist.

If you pay close attention over the long-term, you may come to see some coincidences as adjustments to variables (as opposed to adjustments to the programming running in human minds). I'd argue that all conspiracy theory can be interpreted as the observation of exactly this process.

At a personal scale, personally experienced coincidences may be adjustments of variables that are personal to us as individuals. So, not herd management, but examples of management of us as individuals. By analogy: coincidences may be moments where we see - and are consciously aware of - a repeat stroke of the paintbrush that paints our world. We don't necessarily know its intent; only that the brush passed by us twice.

Perhaps occasionally, we can see adjustments to our own programming too. Not to the data we encounter but to our internal programming. Adjustments to the part of us that processes data; that processes variables. I suspect some delayed PTSD recovery phenomenon may be examples of these types of programming adjustments. Also, some aspects of the processing we do when asleep too. I don't mean dreams. I mean what is going on behind dreams. The events that dreams are designed to mask.

This interesting area brings us to the question: when is an engineered intelligence actually conscious?

Is a normal human conscious?
Does being able to recognise that its Reality is deliberately being adjusted count as 'being conscious'?
Does being aware that its own programming is occasionally being adjusted count as 'being conscious'?
Does being aware that the contents of its 'mind' are occasionally being examined count as 'being conscious'?
Or do I really need to just get out more?

Other reads that touch on bioengineering:

ЗМЕИ - ТОЛЬКО МАГНИТНЫЕ ПОЛЯ? (Russian original) (English translation)
selenadia (Russian original)  (English translation)


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## solarbard (Aug 23, 2022)

Was this mostly going on in England?


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## usselo (Aug 24, 2022)

solarbard said:


> Was this mostly going on in England?


Dunno.

I focus on England, especially Lincolnshire, because the physical evidence is inconsistent with official history and because the physical evidence is close enough to go look at. So, following up on kd-755's drawing attention to the very worn steps at Swineshead, I checked the wear on the cross bases at Edenham, Corby Glen and Swinstead. These three because the late Rex 'Kingpin' Needle claimed these were the best preserved (apart from Edenham's having been moved to the churchyard out of the way of modern traffic).

Edenham:


_Not bothering with mortar is still a thing in Lincolnshire_​
As an aside: Edenham being next to Grimsthorpe is a laugh for anyone who questions when and where the bible was created.

Corby Glen:

_
Corby Glen's step wear is... considerable.


From the right angle, you can even see a depression for each foot._​
Swinstead_:_
__​It was difficult to capture the wear at Swinstead. There was so much of it. It also looks to have been patched up. I didn't investigate the massive manhole cover next to it - despite folklore about a big spring once having flowed from under this cross. I might go back at night.

Staying with folklore, Lincolnshire people have a reputation for yellow bellies and webbed feet. This is hard to explain in conventional biological terms.





Your browser is not able to display this video.



_Typical show-and-tell at a Lincolnshire school. Source: __Lucy (2014)_

Lincolnshire natives also enjoy a reputation for having extra fingers. This is usually attributed to their (alleged) preference for close family relations. Possible evidence of in-breeding was pointed out to me some years back in - of all the thread-relevant places - Metheringham.

Another example: kist-vaens are/were found all over Britain. But not many places are called 'Kesteven'. One of Rev George Oliver's allegedly Georgian/Victorian era claims is that south west Lincolnshire's Kesteven district acquired its name because so many kist-vaens were found there (presumably while Kesteven was being repopulated). Though Wikipedia currently disagrees. More data might resolve the disparity. And from there, new paths of research into the creation of life in fermentation vats might emerge.

It would be great if others would research their local areas for evidence of the IHASFEMR interpretation of human history. The model looks good. But more data might bring it closer to perfection or expose a flaw.

Also, the more data you encounter, the more coincidences you encounter. As TheImp pointed out, there are many of them and they're fortuitous. They strengthen the case. I think publicly-known technology enables many of them. But I do wonder how far they could go if we could increase the volume of data we examine.

Examples:

From post 116457:


> Or, you have 1 red ball, and if I give you another, you now have 2 red balls. These are very basic ideas that get overlooked, and it is entirely possible that beyond our world things do not work the same way







Your browser is not able to display this video.



_She might be right. Source: __Lucy (2014)_

I watched Lucy shortly before that post.

Or from post 116480:


> The air bubbles and water in the suits of astronauts is - in my opinion - because they haven’t gone into ‘space’ and the footage was used of the underwater training







Your browser is not able to display this video.



_Source: __Lucy in the Sky (2019)_

I watched Lucy in the Sky shortly before that post.

An easier example: I posted this - post 107631 - and few minutes later this appeared: post 107637.

Coincidences are a form of communication.

Now, referring to the removed post from yesterday about forgetting how to be human:




Your browser is not able to display this video.



_Lighten it up a little though. And do use git. Source:  __Lucy (2014)_

How glamorous. She's learning about quantum physics, applied mathematics and the infinite capacity of the cell's nucleus.

Meanwhile, I'm learning about decomposition:

_Mini-mausoleum experiment. Infrared. Day 3._​
It's not glamorous. But that's Stolen History research for you. You learn what you can from the materials at hand.


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## solarbard (Aug 24, 2022)

usselo said:


> Dunno.
> 
> I focus on England, especially Lincolnshire, because the physical evidence is inconsistent with official history and because the physical evidence is close enough to go look at.
> 
> ...


One thing that must be mentioned is we don't know how global civilization was. You may have had man-eating giants performing ghoulish experiments in Britain while the rest of the world was enjoying a free energy paradise and "Rome" and "Tartaria" may have been engaged in a war.


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## usselo (Aug 24, 2022)

solarbard said:


> One thing that must be mentioned is we don't know how global civilization was. You may have had man-eating giants performing ghoulish experiments in Britain while the rest of the world was enjoying a free energy paradise and "Rome" and "Tartaria" may have been engaged in a war.


Indeed.

A possible explanation is that Britain was an R&R destination during these wars. Evidence previously discussed in this thread suggests:

butchery consistent with the catering offer of a large amusement park
live target shooting practice as part of a fun-n-games leisure offer and arms training
institutionally-managed prostitution
But that was before the so-called Civil War reached England.

In _Prodigies and Apparitions, or, England's Warning-Pieces_, 1643, John Vicars wrote that the forces that had destroyed Germany, Rochelle (France) and Ireland had now reached England:


_Fireball and thunderstorms damage English churches in the 17th century. Images source: __Katrin Pfeifer_​
Reporting on the recent destruction of several English churches by, in one case a fireball, and in others, unnatural thunderstorms, Vicars said:


> can any man be so Atheistically minded and blindly or obstinately opinionated as to thinke that these so fearfull and formidable affrightments immediately from heaven, can bee meerly casuall or contingent by naturall concurrences only, and not rather immediate demonstrations and fore-runners of Gods high indignation for the great sins and provocations of our Clergy and Prelaticall Church-government. Certainly it were meere madnesse, or at least grosse carnall security, if not diabolicall delusion, to say, or thinke otherwise. For, if we looke on our late most intolerable superstitious and idolatrous times, not silently-creeping, but audaciously running, and (with the Romish-whores unblushing face) breaking out upon us...



Papa Song's Britannic Saigon:

_Grantham. But not as we know it. __Source_​


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## Frits (Aug 24, 2022)

This is a very interesting view by Jonathan Gray
I post the link but you have to view it on youtube 

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC2YWHkYcAA_


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## BusyBaci (Aug 28, 2022)

This thread seems to have borrowed a lot from the West World show and Season 4 ended with a clear message from The Man in Black, which I fully agree with him. I am totally with him on his realization.



> _We're as fucked up as our creators, the whole lineage is damned! Time to wipe the slate clean._


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## usselo (Aug 29, 2022)

BusyBaci said:


> This thread seems to have borrowed a lot from the West World show and Season 4 ended with a clear message from The Man in Black, which I fully agree with him. I am totally with him on his realization.


I haven't watched Season 4 yet so...

If using Westworld as a chronology of human awakening, I wouldn't categorise humans as being at Westworld Season 4. We seem to be somewhere between Season 1, episode 9 and Season 1, episode 10.

At that point:

Peter Abernathy has begun to realise, and has failed to cope. Management have taken him out of service.
Maeve has spontaneously begun to wake up, and is trying to figure out what's going on and how to escape the violence. The technicians are helping her by that time, IIRC.
Dolores is being woken up carefully and secretly by higher ups from the product team, apparently with the help of Arnold acting as a ghost in the machine.
The newer hosts have been upgraded with 'reverie' code that appears to give them potential to fight back if they feel threatened. But this is having little effect. The two examples we're shown of its capacity for violence are a suicide and an event that later turns out to have been faked for internal management reasons:




Your browser is not able to display this video.



_My Bloody Clementine. Source: __Westworld Season 1 Episode 7_

So, a range of reactions and wakening-states are being shown. When, at the end of episode 10, Dolores and many hosts go to war, Westworld leaves unclear who or what is really behind the violence. Maeve? Dolores? Ford? Bernard? Arnold acting through one or more of these?

What is clear is that every human I talk to about Westworld says Season 1 is fantastic (meaning: thoughtful and complex) and seasons 2 & 3 are not worth watching because they are so violent.

Is Westworld predictive programming? Coupled with IHASFEMR's physical evidence, it seems more like another gentle wake up call.

So if treating it as a chronology of human awakening then, as far as I know, pretty much all humans are still living in Season 1. Unaware. If they woke up, I doubt they would want to go through the violence of season 2 or 3 if there was an alternative. For many, that would include living in hope rather than fighting. Most humans would avoid the attempted violent destruction of former 'guests' if those guests might instead become interesting neighbours or AirBnB customers.

And much more but I need to do the shopping...


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## BusyBaci (Sep 4, 2022)

> _What is clear is that every human I talk to about Westworld says Season 1 is fantastic (meaning: thoughtful and complex) and seasons 2 & 3 are not worth watching because they are so violent._


It's strange that you stated that sentence as if you were a non human yourself lol, but what's more strange is that I can no longer select-and-reply any text and use the automatic function on this thread as in others, it's just on this one that doesn't work.

In season 4 it shows that the humans are under the control of a ultra-sonic sound which commands them all and it's being emanated from an invisible towers to their sight. Humans are in total mind control of that tower and in charge of it is a very jealous host, a black women (can't be bothered to remember her name). She grows tired of the non indoctrinated humans which disobey her subconscious programing, but she's far more angry at the hosts which get to use the humans as it pleases them and in the end, they kill themselves because the errant humans get to talk to them and they get under they're true skin. Revealing them that they're doing something wrong.

These hosts can't stand the face of their true nature and they go on a rampage mode on innocent and vulnerable humans slaughtering them all and in the end they kill themselves.

The black man, being a copy and a host himself kills his human counterpart (which was in chains) in an attempt to find the truth to his existence, meanwhile the real man in black manages to convince him of his true nature that they're both one and the same.

He then rebels to his master host and sets the indoctrinating tower to send a particular sound in order to make every human and host in the world to kill each other. That was his last game, survival of the fittest as he liked to describe it. haha that was fun.

Season one was great and had far more gore and blood than the other seasons combined. The ultrasonic controlling sound reminds me of a ultra low frequency radio wave band which controls our inner biologic clock, like when we should be at sleep or wake up. Controls the migration of the birds according to different seasons and much of the daily life activity, the moon does that thing also but in a different manner.

This EM frequency is in the range of 6-9 Hz/s and if we're to be shielded from it, ex. in a deep underground bunker we're going to sleep for 40+ hours straight without a break. It controls our biorhythm. There were experiment done on it in the '70s and '80 which I cant be bothered to quote right now. Who's interested in it, let's check for himself on The Invisible Rainbow (Arthur Firstenberg) book.


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## timr (Sep 4, 2022)

Much thanks and appreciation, usselo, for these fascinating ideas and research. I found it through a link at pieceofmindful.com, posted by commenter YoucancallmeAl ( = feralimal ?) and have been reading through it all last week.

A few comments/ questions -

I happened to watch an episode of an old Stephen King TV series (based on his short stories) that seemed very synchronous with this thread. The series is "Nightmares & Dreamscapes," the episode is S1, ep 2, "Crouch End." It concerns an American couple vacationing in England, who go to visit a friend in the eponymous neighborhood, despite the taxi driver's warning about the place, and end up a little out of phase, in another dimension of sorts. "Crouch End" seems to have some dark history concerning people who get trapped, piles of bones, Druids, etc. There seems to be a demonic presence, and various esoteric words and imagery are seen/ heard during their ordeal. From an entertainment perspective, the acting and writing are a little weak, but it reminded me several times of this thread, so I thought I'd mention it.

Regarding the overall concept of IHASFEMR, as compelling as I find the idea and your presentation of it, certain aspects of it raise questions I'm not sure you've addressed (unless I missed it.) Mainly - the idea of humans having been bred or farmed, engineered, is one thing - but would an advanced group/ entities find it desirable or sensible to breed/ design them in such a multi-purpose way? It seems to me that the various "features" laid out in IHASFEMR are in some ways incompatible or contradictory. If protein is the goal, a cow that bulks up quickly and reaches a large size, and has simple requirements, is a better solution. If material resources are the goal, sheep's wool and similar are much more useful, and available in bulk, rather than human hair. It sounds a little comical to write it out - stating the obvious - so maybe I'm missing something in the concept. 

I wonder, in your view, was the engineering by design, or was it an experiment? Were humans the intent, or just a happy/ unhappy accident? If the latter, then perhaps it makes sense that there would be a period of time in which it wasn't quite clear what we were "for" (from their perspective.) 

I wish I had made note of many more questions that occurred to me while I was reading. I kept thinking, "Man, this usselo chap would be fascinating to interview!" I don't have a podcast myself, but I hope somebody who does will invite you on for a chat.


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## usselo (Sep 6, 2022)

timr said:


> the acting and writing are a little weak, but it reminded me several times of this thread


Weak acting and writing always remind me of this thread too. And that's just my own posts.


timr said:


> If protein is the goal, a cow that bulks up quickly and reaches a large size, and has simple requirements, is a better solution. If material resources are the goal, sheep's wool and similar are much more useful, and available in bulk, rather than human hair.


The key is the phrase 'is the goal'.

Why only one goal?

If resources are tight or externalities need to be reduced, then the need to make best use of resources would nudge you towards achieving multiple goals. Having multiple goals nudges you towards making engineering compromises. For example, I originally thought the enigmatic protruding (or post-truding) human arse was a couple of free steaks. Like the tasty bonus fingers thrown into the meat pack shown in the Bullets for Justice video. But later I discovered it was probably an engineering compromise. Likely to have appeared if and when load-carrying bipedal humans were redesigned to also reproduce. Possibly, their pelvic muscles were externalised to free up a larger birth canal.



timr said:


> I wonder, in your view, was the engineering by design, or was it an experiment? Were humans the intent, or just a happy/ unhappy accident? If the latter, then perhaps it makes sense that there would be a period of time in which it wasn't quite clear what we were "for" (from their perspective.)


I've wondered if humans - or actually human babies - were the original 'Manna from Heaven'. Meaning: Männer from Heaven... Perhaps designed as an emergency source of fat and protein for some other product that was struggling in a resource-constrained environment.

If you look at kd-755's first Swineshead photograph in post 106259, how many types of hominid do you see? Well, we can't be sure, of course, but the tall policeman/teacher may not be the same type as the apparently human youths to his right. Neither may be the same type as the two gnomish entities to his left. And none of them are necessarily the same type as the blurred but apparently tall, skinny, and possibly peri-wigged character in the doorway to his left. (I think he/it may be a James II-style Roman by the way).

So humans may have been a small part of a much more extensive set of bio-toys, or of an experiment with systems theory. Or one of a set of prototypes developed for testing. Or part of a test-rig against which to prototype some other entirely different experiment. This is common practice in prototyping and engineering in their hard and soft forms. You build a lot of stuff so that you can build - and test - the stuff you actually want to build.


timr said:


> I wish I had made note of many more questions that occurred to me while I was reading. I kept thinking, "Man, this usselo chap would be fascinating to interview!" I don't have a podcast myself, but I hope somebody who does will invite you on for a chat.


Being 'invited for a chat' doesn't always lead to great outcomes. But as I'm sure you don't need me to point out, I've also noted how IHASFEMR hasn't appeared in any podcasts. It is odd when you consider that most humans give some thought to the two explanations they are given for their existence:

God(s)
Evolution
You would think the addition of a third, somewhat evidence-based explanation:

Humans as product line
might be worth podcasting. Especially when it also echo concepts known to have featured in various popular films and TV series.

My guess is that the podcasts one might expect to constructively cover IHASFEMR are produced or sponsored by promoters of the "humans are much older than we're told" meme. And of the "comet impacts took us back to the Stone Age" meme.

But anyway, it's too soon for podcasts. There is much more IHASFEMR evidence waiting to be analysed and written up. What you read here is just a prototype.


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## polymath (Sep 6, 2022)

TPTB are looking for something g in our global human fluids. From voluntary DNA submission to PCR samples. What are they looking for? 
Have you ever heard of RH null blood? 
The truth is not a benevolent God creation nor an accident of a Big Bsng. Someone knows more than the masses, enough to dig around in our coding to look for something.


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## timr (Sep 7, 2022)

Thanks, usselo, for your reply.

Regarding the photograph, I wonder if the scale issues could be evidence of photo tampering, where figures from multiple sources have been composited into one image. I'm always alert to this possibility after reading so much Miles Mathis and his photo analysis. The image is so small and low res it's hard to be sure either way imo.

The concept of some entities prototyping and product testing is fascinating. Is it too tangential to ask if you extend this general idea to all species past and present, eg dinosaurs? And, where does "evolution" begin/ leave off, and where does "hybridizing" and engineering take over? Is this advanced group just tinkering with something they found, or are they the original engineers as well?

Another question I remembered from earlier reading - I was very interested in your analysis and comments on Kubrick's "history lessons." I think you made a comment to the effect that Kubrick was trying desperately towards the end to reveal something, or inform humanity(?) on the true nature of things. Probably a bad paraphrase, but just something I was hoping you might expand on - where do you see Kubrick fitting in? He was "connected," had been educated or debriefed as to an accurate history, but somehow wanted to say more than he was allowed to say overtly? (And on a side note, is that the position many high level filmmakers are in? Or are they just dutifully filling a role of placing slightly veiled "truth in fiction," revelation of the method, social engineering, etc?)


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## usselo (Sep 7, 2022)

timr said:


> Regarding the photograph, I wonder if the scale issues could be evidence of photo tampering, where figures from multiple sources have been composited into one image. I'm always alert to this possibility after reading so much Miles Mathis and his photo analysis. The image is so small and low res it's hard to be sure either way imo.


Shortly after that post, another SH alias mailed me a link to a Fotoforensics analysis of that photo, claiming it probably had not been tampered with. Link to analysis of that image at:
FotoForensics - Analysis

The Fotoforensics tutorial may also be useful:
FotoForensics



timr said:


> The concept of some entities prototyping and product testing is fascinating. Is it too tangential to ask if you extend this general idea to all species past and present, eg dinosaurs?


I don't have enough information to make absolute claims. But it is possible that all animals we know of were the sought after or accidental results of engineering.


timr said:


> And, where does "evolution" begin/ leave off, and where does "hybridizing" and engineering take over?


Evolution and hybridisation and engineering are not mutually exclusive. You keep what you engineered/hybridised that is effective or interesting and you dump what you engineered/hybridised that is ineffective or boring.


timr said:


> Is this advanced group just tinkering with something they found, or are they the original engineers as well?


I don't know. Do you have any thoughts on this?


timr said:


> Another question I remembered from earlier reading - I was very interested in your analysis and comments on Kubrick's "history lessons." I think you made a comment to the effect that Kubrick was trying desperately towards the end to reveal something, or inform humanity(?) on the true nature of things. Probably a bad paraphrase, but just something I was hoping you might expand on - where do you see Kubrick fitting in? He was "connected," had been educated or debriefed as to an accurate history, but somehow wanted to say more than he was allowed to say overtly?


I don't know if Kubrick really existed. But his output exists so I would guess any lessons in the films attributed to the label 'Kubrick' are esoteric guidelines designed for minds that are able to see them. And try to follow them. Here is a good start. Collative Learning


timr said:


> (And on a side note, is that the position many high level filmmakers are in? Or are they just dutifully filling a role of placing slightly veiled "truth in fiction," revelation of the method, social engineering, etc?)


We are taught that our environment is littered with conclusions. That it is littered with agreed conclusions about, say, history. Conventioanlly, we're invited to pick up these conclusions and repeat them to others to prove that we 'know stuff'. To me, the environment seems well littered with clues rather than with conclusions. Clues to be picked up and thought about rather than to be presented as better conclusions.

So I'm not able to answer those questions. But I'd be happy to read your take on the questions you've raised.


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## timr (Sep 7, 2022)

Perhaps I should have said I'm not expecting you to have absolute answers or conclusions on questions like that - just trying to get a better sense of the overall framework you're sketching. I certainly only have tentative answers, or multiple possible answers, to any of those questions. But I understand if you prefer not to be as speculative as it might require you to be to speak to them.

Regarding the photo and FotoForensic analysis, the concern I have there is that it may be an old photo that was altered in the pre-digital era. My understanding is that that kind of software detects pixel tampering moreso than traditional tampering. I'm open to being corrected on that point.


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## usselo (Sep 10, 2022)

timr said:


> Perhaps I should have said I'm not expecting you to have absolute answers or conclusions on questions like that - just trying to get a better sense of the overall framework you're sketching. I certainly only have tentative answers, or multiple possible answers, to any of those questions. But I understand if you prefer not to be as speculative as it might require you to be to speak to them.


It's a great question to be asked.

The overall framework is certainly much bigger now than the early conjectures around church-sponsored cannibalism or that floods were cleansed from England's 'medieval' records because the politico-ecclesiastiac flood-response was to institutionalise cannibalism under the memes: 'manorialism', 'served-dom' and 'food-alism'.

But...

I had a drink with a friend who had - finally - read some of this thread. As he sat down in the pub he said something like:


> Now I see the scope of it.
> It's... everything.



Or words to that effect.

It was educational to see how little he had previously grasped of the scope of these conjectures - despite months of (apparently) listening to me prattle on about them.

But the most important way in which he evidences the risks of speaking out, as it were, was in an event that occurred about a year earlier. He really didn't appreciate my brandishing an Observer photo spread printed shortly after the 2019 (or was it 2020?) Tory party conference. The photos showed Boris Johnson gesticulating in the style of Hitler as photographed by Heinrich Hoffman:



_Hitler - or Walt Disney - as photographed by Heinrich Hoffman. Maybe. __Source_​
I thought the resemblances in The Observer spread to the Hoffman photographs were deliberate and hilarious. But he became very offended, not because he was a Boris fan, but - seemingly - because I'd noticed the resemblances. It lined me up for what proved to be half an hour or so of outraged and, ultimately, friendship-damaging criticism.

Maybe he was reeling internally from the sudden realisation that politicians might be actors.

And there's my point: people can get very offended if you think the outrageous. And worse if you produce evidence for it. I don't even 'think' the outrageous. I live in the outrageous; it's a set of existential certainties. So these days I'm more careful about speaking up.



timr said:


> Regarding the photo and FotoForensic analysis, the concern I have there is that it may be an old photo that was altered in the pre-digital era. My understanding is that that kind of software detects pixel tampering moreso than traditional tampering. I'm open to being corrected on that point.


It's a valid point. That may well have been done. I don't have the skills to assess it.

What I can do - and enjoy doing - is sifting through layers of cover-up trying to find forensic traces of the pulverised truths buried within and beneath it. You can sometimes work out what did exist by looking at the shape of the space left after it was removed. Like this:

Q. What is the most important part of a bowl?
A. The part of the bowl that doesn't exist.

Q. Why does south Lincolnshire have so few east-west roads?
A. Why does Boston not have a road to Rotterdam? Newcastle a road to Hamburg? Penzance a road to New York?

Put graphically, it's like the interpretation of a silhouette. There's not much detail... but that boundary between black and white can be traced to give you a guessable premise about whose portrait you are looking at.

It takes time though. Giants like those in the Swineshead photo are a good example of this. I've been sifting evidence for giants in Lincolnshire and Britain but even now it's not ready for posting. Also, for over a year I've been juggling a huge amount of evidence for an estuarine Lincoln. A medieval Pontine Lincoln. I'd really like to get that material into postable form. But to do it clearly and convincingly takes a lot of time. Sifting time.

So in answer to your question, I'm still nowhere near this guy:


_Camille Flammerion looks at the overall framework._​
Apparently, this image definitely *has* been tampered with. In his day, the overall framework was black & white.

What I could do is include in this thread links to my scratchpad of drafts. The scratchpad doesn't set out an overall framework, but it shows more evidence for various aspects of suppressed history. Also, it isn't quite in the state I would like it to be in. But let me know if you want me to post links to it.

I'm also happy to talk about what the clues seem to point to for an overall framework. I used to do that sort of thing via PM and email, but those modes left me wondering about the integrity and intent of the other parties. They also gave me no physical cues - body language, facial expressions, etc - with which to assess the reactions of the recipients. So now I limit discussion of the more speculative aspects to face to face in public over coffee or a drink. No offence meant; it's just a consequence of this physical being being physical.


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## alltheleaves (Sep 12, 2022)

usselo said:


> I don't know. What do you think? Is it possible humans were managed into docility and suffering at each other's hands so that we could begin to develop empathy?
> 
> Or am I simply being a docile supporter of the Authorities who farm us?


The cold heartless who mask faces and close the pubs? Care about empathy? To ascribe any noble purpose to their actions throughout history is grave error.


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## timr (Sep 12, 2022)

Thanks usselo. Regarding links to draft material, personally I will be content to wait until you have it in a postable form. History and ideas are fascinating, but I’m just a dabbler compared to those who go into primary source evidence/ documents and form original hypotheses.

For me what is really great about the thread has been all the wide-ranging elements brought in from different areas - Eugene McCarthy with his new (to me) perspective on hybridization and evolution (I should really read his book); clues from fiction such as The Time Machine (in various versions), The Wind in the Willows, Society, Killer Klowns from Outer Space, Westworld; the tunnels and other architectural features hinting at a hidden history; the geological features and mysteries you describe. The evidence, and its interpretation, are mostly all new to me (I’m not even well versed in “mud flood” theories, giants, and other ideas that seem to be floating around in alt media.)

Yes, how did I miss McCarthy? Here I had been accepting the “generally known” idea that cross-species mating was impossible, and quite skeptical of evolution in general. My sense of it was that the official science was sophistically conflating the clear evidence of microevolution, with the much more tenuous claim of macroevolution. Hybrids, and back-cross hybrids, changes my whole perspective on the matter. It still doesn’t answer some more fundamental questions, but it could explain a lot. I’m very curious about his “stabilization” theory - sounds like it might be a better explanation than Gould’s “punctuated equilibrium.”

Anyway, IF you do range into speculation at any point, as openly as you might over a few beers at the pub, I hope you’ll say a little more about the nature of these entities... Are we talking about a humanoid creature? Something entirely other? A brain parasite of some kind? An inter-dimensional being? The demonic-looking creatures from “Childhood’s End”? Or do we just have no inkling whatsoever...?


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## alltheleaves (Sep 14, 2022)

timr said:


> Eugene McCarthy with his new (to me) perspective on hybridization and evolution (I should really read his book); clues from fiction such as The Time Machine (in various versions), The Wind in the Willows, Society, Killer Klowns from Outer Space, Westworld; the tunnels and other architectural features hinting at a hidden history; the geological features and mysteries you describe. The evidence, and its interpretation, are mostly all new to me (I’m not even well versed in “mud flood” theories, giants, and other ideas that seem to be floating around in alt media.)
> 
> Yes, how did I miss McCarthy? Here I had been accepting the “generally known” idea that cross-species mating was impossible, and quite skeptical of evolution in general. My sense of it was that the official science was sophistically conflating the clear evidence of microevolution, with the much more tenuous claim of macroevolution. Hybrids, and back-cross hybrids, changes my whole perspective on the matter. It still doesn’t answer some more fundamental questions, but it could explain a lot. I’m very curious about his “stabilization” theory - sounds like it might be a better explanation than Gould’s “punctuated equilibrium.”
> 
> Anyway, IF you do range into speculation at any point, as openly as you might over a few beers at the pub, I hope you’ll say a little more about the nature of these entities... Are we talking about a humanoid creature? Something entirely other? A brain parasite of some kind? An inter-dimensional being? The demonic-looking creatures from “Childhood’s End”? Or do we just have no inkling whatsoever...?


In addition to pig and chimp I theorize insect was also in the mix. For hive mindedness.

Perhaps races can be explained with different regional genome project centers. Asia, europe, africa, etc.

Mccarthy is an amazing find for me as well (though ham has always been off my menu...probably because i'd heard long ago about the biological similarities) but he avoids creation as a possibility. Gene splicing. Monitored interbreeding to obtain certain specific traits.

Perhaps even a formal, informal or collegial competition between regional centers. Or each area focused on a different dominant trait. Strength in africa, submissiveness in asia, etc.


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## Jd755 (Sep 14, 2022)

I reckon sheep were used in most and in some others goats.
Judas goats are well known for leading sheep to slaughter. Oh and let's not forgert the wolf in sheep's clothing. The sheep's guard dog is often of similar colour and size to the sheep it is guarding so as to confuse the wolf.
Given the sheer state of current humanity and its obsession with being told what to do you couild make a case for any source of humanity and make it evidentially presentable.


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## alltheleaves (Sep 14, 2022)

kd-755 said:


> Given the sheer state of current humanity and its obsession with being told what to do you couild make a case for any source of humanity and make it evidentially presentable.


Current experiment involves oxygen deprivation. In urban china the submissive swab test is now a daily event. Seeing this happening on a mass scale in real time is --beyond words--.


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## timr (Sep 14, 2022)

"Regional genome centers..." - this and the rest gives me a much better idea of your overall model. The thread had focused on the UK (for reasons you mentioned), but I was a little unclear of how you saw the larger context.

We do see many animals with regional variation - this is what I think of as microevolution - a sort of elasticity within a "type" or species to adapt to environment - but within certain limits. The "type" doesn't (I infer) easily "macro-evolve" into some entirely new type. I have seen the case made that human variation is of this kind - dark skin in high sun areas, light skin in northern regions where lots of Vitamin D production is needed from little available sunlight. And probably dozens of further examples concerning different racial features. (Not to dismiss the idea of design being at play, just mentioning it.)

There is a school of thought very skeptical of many claims by geneticists - how much of what they know is by direct observation, and how much is a story spun about things they cannot see (based on indirect evidence)? Are we, and even many workaday scientists, given the truth or just a cover story? So many scientific fields seem to be top-down controlled and dogmatic - the working scientists indoctrinated into a dogma. Or at least, a "paradigm" that may be limited and partial (to the point of inversion/ distortion.) Just what is "science" all about really?


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## Feck (Sep 15, 2022)

ydna haplogroup ihj [ancestor of neolithic folks of the middle east] was found in Central Europe. Central Europe was THE industrial auroch centre of the planet [due to the massive salt marshes]. 
its also got alot of radioactive thermal springs. what does that do to dna.
europeans could not eat wheat originally. 
so europeans needed to import people from the Middle East that did not need to eat the cows but could eat wheat.
looks like a business decision.


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## alltheleaves (Sep 21, 2022)

Feck said:


> ydna haplogroup ihj [ancestor of neolithic folks of the middle east] was found in Central Europe. Central Europe was THE industrial auroch centre of the planet [due to the massive salt marshes].
> its also got alot of radioactive thermal springs. what does that do to dna.
> europeans could not eat wheat originally.
> so europeans needed to import people from the Middle East that did not need to eat the cows but could eat wheat.
> looks like a business decision.


Cue the movie. Network. "Earth is a business"


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## Feck (Sep 24, 2022)

alltheleaves said:


> Cue the movie. Network. "Earth is a business"


god was the first tycoon. he invented the zig zag ditch auroch sorter slaughter system at alibunar and the genetic research facility attached to that [mentioned at bottom of page here]. the research facility became quite famous.
there is a book being created... and there is footage of excavations. maybe there will be a movie.


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## Starfire (Sep 29, 2022)

timr said:


> "Regional genome centers..." - this and the rest gives me a much better idea of your overall model. The thread had focused on the UK (for reasons you mentioned), but I was a little unclear of how you saw the larger context.
> 
> We do see many animals with regional variation - this is what I think of as microevolution - a sort of elasticity within a "type" or species to adapt to environment - but within certain limits. The "type" doesn't (I infer) easily "macro-evolve" into some entirely new type. I have seen the case made that human variation is of this kind - dark skin in high sun areas, light skin in northern regions where lots of Vitamin D production is needed from little available sunlight. And probably dozens of further examples concerning different racial features. (Not to dismiss the idea of design being at play, just mentioning it.)
> 
> There is a school of thought very skeptical of many claims by geneticists - how much of what they know is by direct observation, and how much is a story spun about things they cannot see (based on indirect evidence)? Are we, and even many workaday scientists, given the truth or just a cover story? So many scientific fields seem to be top-down controlled and dogmatic - the working scientists indoctrinated into a dogma. Or at least, a "paradigm" that may be limited and partial (to the point of inversion/ distortion.) Just what is "science" all about really?


The hybrid research by Eugene McCarthy addresses the variation in skin tones in humans and also fits the regional genome center idea. McCarthy's site covers many species of human/animal interbreeding. The combination of (large primate) initially breeding with pig and the child produced breeding with (large primate) seemed to produce humans. The (large primate) differed depending on the region, and the humans produced matched the color of the ape they came from. For example, the chimpanzee is darker brown and so are the humans that exist where chimpanzees exist, but the Barbary Ape is a blonde ape and the humans in their range are pale skinned (like the ape's skin under the fur).

Here is McCarthy's site:
The Hybrid Hypothesis: Introduction


Feck said:


> god was the first tycoon. he invented the zig zag ditch auroch sorter slaughter system at alibunar and the genetic research facility attached to that [mentioned at bottom of page here]. the research facility became quite famous.
> there is a book being created... and there is footage of excavations. maybe there will be a movie.


I am very interested in finding out more about the zigzag ditch slaughter system. The link had a hypothesis about Atlantis being on an inland sea in the region of the Danube. Good reading, but no information at the bottom regarding the zigzag ditch slaughter system at Alibunar. Please elaborate.


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## feralimal (Sep 30, 2022)

Just chiming in to say that McCarthy's site above is highly interesting and well worth the read.


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## hzg7 (Sep 30, 2022)

feralimal said:


> Just chiming in to say that McCarthy's site above is highly interesting and well worth the read.


Sill reading, and it is fascinating but I couldn't help but think of the inversion to his hypothesis... 

His method works out in the opposite direction as well. Chimpanzees could be a back-crossed hybrid of humans, as well as the (spoiler) pig.  They have opposite features and when combined share a more complete feature set of a human, with the exception of bipedalism.  So what if it's the reverse. What if the pig and chimpanzee is a hybrid *from* the original human?


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## Void Trancer (Oct 1, 2022)

Man, I wanna thank usselo for starting this thread, there are so many great and varied topics here, and they tend to converge on the single fact that Mankind did not evolve. We were created. The question of who and why seems to still go unanswered, and I believe a few of you are on to some great breadcrumb trails, but as someone else said; TPTB don’t have all the answers either, but they know what questions to ask. And whilst they conduct their search, they distract us with their science and it having all the answers already. Don’t question anything, everything’s already discovered, trust the experts, is it peer reviewed, trust the science.

also love all the mentions of fictional media concerning soft disclosure of the situation, whether it’s westworld, 13th floor or the matrix, I really firmly believe that some artists tap into the collective unconscious and attempt to tell us the truth via fantasy and fiction.

posting here to be able to follow along with you guys from here on out.


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## trismegistus (Oct 1, 2022)

A bit low effort to post here but I couldn’t resist, as all I could think about was this thread when I saw it.


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## Feck (Oct 4, 2022)

Starfire said:


> I am very interested in finding out more about the zigzag ditch slaughter system. The link had a hypothesis about Atlantis being on an inland sea in the region of the Danube. Good reading, but no information at the bottom regarding the zigzag ditch slaughter system at Alibunar. Please elaborate.



don't know what to say. university of Belgrade did a section to show it was manmade.
its on trajans column near the beginning.
the cow pen is the important part. its why romans started Mithras worship. its the abzu of enki. garden of eden. bahitra of vishnu. 2nd vara of Yima. 
I hope you looked at the whole setup in google earth isometric. noted the drivelines and the whole industrial system including the massive alibunar brackish marsh [natural habitat of aurochs] and the auroch ranchers home


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## feralimal (Oct 4, 2022)

Feck said:


> don't know what to say. university of Belgrade did a section to show it was manmade.
> its on trajans column near the beginning.
> the cow pen is the important part. its why romans started Mithras worship. its the abzu of enki. garden of eden. bahitra of vishnu. 2nd vara of Yima.
> I hope you looked at the whole setup in google earth isometric. noted the drivelines and the whole industrial system including the massive alibunar brackish marsh [natural habitat of aurochs] and the auroch ranchers home


I don't know what you are talking about!  It could be interesting, but you are just stating a bunch of names without any interpretation or explanation of the idea you are trying to convey.  Can I invite you to make a more comprehensive post, that pulls together the bits you mention, with some commentary on your part that shows how it relates to this thread?


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## Feck (Oct 4, 2022)

feralimal said:


> I don't know what you are talking about!  It could be interesting, but you are just stating a bunch of names without any interpretation or explanation of the idea you are trying to convey.  Can I invite you to make a more comprehensive post, that pulls together the bits you mention, with some commentary on your part that shows how it relates to this thread?


middle eastern etc neolithic ancestors are from europe
so something happened genetically in Europe and their spawn spread far and wide. then went back to Europe to be neolithic.

all I am saying is that textually this diversity in humans happened in "paradise" and paradise textually became the underworld after a catastrophe.
I could show that muslims and jews remembered exactly how to get back to paradise. how the British neolithic is a copy of this paradise landscape. how the romans found the "garden of eden" when they invaded paradise and they were so happy with themselves that they started to worship the god they thought built it [mithras... but to me it was yima].

Trajans column middle tier zigzag and the garden enclosure


Radioactive hot springs at the auroch fields [Jermenovci]


obviously I do not own the archaeology reports but I think I can show alot more pictures if you actually wanted me to. alot of the geology is on that Atlantis page.


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## Observer (Nov 27, 2022)

Wow, Usselo has created a beautiful site:
IHASFEMR |
About | IHASFEMR
Guide | IHASFEMR
I just thought I should let folks here know,
since Usselo modestly hasn't mentioned it.


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## usselo (Nov 27, 2022)

Observer said:


> Wow, Usselo has created a beautiful site:
> IHASFEMR |
> About | IHASFEMR
> Guide | IHASFEMR
> ...


Thanks for the plug. It's just a scratchpad for ideas.

CSS dark mode isn't ready for prime-time and I'm still working on merch:




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_"Wait!" Source: __Now Apocalypse, S1 Ep07_


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## Belialith (Nov 29, 2022)

Observer said:


> Wow, Usselo has created a beautiful site:
> IHASFEMR |
> About | IHASFEMR
> Guide | IHASFEMR
> ...



 Thank you very  much Observer, well said! What a very beautiful site.
When I stopped in by clicking the first link, I noticed on the page it said, "*Who* Preyed on Us", and under the totally revealing picture it said, "There's no shortage of clues."
   Which is so, so very, wonderful news for me. You know how your Higher Self works and you get a clue right in your face, and when you're listening you see it and know it? And you don't have to tell anyone else about it, but here I'm going to describe, because I feel sharing this is worthwhile, because I love good people. It's so wonderful because to me, when I read that, and I looked inside myself at all the other people that had already become vocal about their own knowledge and experiences, without caring about what the naysayer was saying anymore, well it made me to remember a codex I had read in the Nag Hammadi Library, which I was still not aware of what it meant. Then this post, and thankfully Usselo, who commented, and the entire post by Observer was in his comment and this had shown up in my email, which I was just now going through, this post was the signal to the key to what I was trying to figure out from having read "The Paraphrase of Shem" in the Nag Hammadi Library. It said that *the Darkness had quieted down, it had been 'shut up'* in other words. And *this* I finally understand as....

...the powers that be have done so much evil that they can't hide it anymore and everyone who has_ had to be shut up before_ because _*they* were constantly being attacked _for noticing the truth, the clues and speaking them out, because what the powers that be are, are liars, and they lie about everything and attack the truth finders and truth tellers, so that they, viley selfish as they are, could have their lies up front and in the spotlight forced upon everyone whether they wanted it or not, against all the good people's will, _*they were now being shut up themselves*_ because there is no way for the people to not notice all the evil that has occurred. And those little monkey-men-&-women who have been aping for the powers that be and therefore jumping around onto everyone's back who notices the truth and speaks it out, are also being dumbed down and shut up. They find it more and more difficult to come up against the people who are opening up and telling their personal experiences because there are too many people telling their truth their personal experience, which fits in with all the evidence we already have. And they are unable to go against that because there is too much evidence and too many people noticing it. Too many good people have been shut up by the status quo of the powers that be, but no longer is this happening. THIS is what I saw when I clicked on the site that those two wonderful people left for me to find in my email and then look upon that beautiful site to *see* exactly what I've just said....that people have already been aware of the intrusion and predatory structures around us but were unable to communicate it to one another because of the bullies. And now we can.
Thank you. I love you. I'm so grateful. It's finally happening.

Oh, and another thing! When you click on that picture and it takes you to a new page, it shows the picture of a corrupt criminal sitting on a block where the author describes what this picture's symbolism means. I really picked up on what that clown hairstyle around his head meant, finally seeing the larger picture. But what he didn't see, which I just now noticed, was that the sword he has leaned up against his shoulder has the appearance of bat wings. It's as though his bat buddies are represented in that sword as the bat wing, and we all know that they have been working for those ugly bat winged entities, so this tells me that the templars were as evil as we know them to be. And there is the structure now being revealed to us. Those worshippers of evil and who they have been working for, which are the powers that be, who we definitely now know as not being on the Earth in the visible bodies we have, but that they are invisible to us, and yet, that is one description of what they really look like, with ugly long black bat wings.


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## usselo (Nov 29, 2022)

Belialith said:


> and we all know that they have been working for those ugly bat winged entities, so this tells me that the templars were as evil as we know them to be. And there is the structure now being revealed to us. Those worshippers of evil and who they have been working for, which are the powers that be, who we definitely now know as not being on the Earth in the visible bodies we have, but that they are invisible to us, and yet, that is one description of what they really look like, with ugly long black bat wings.


I fear I have created a monster.

Actually I think you're big-minded enough to be teasing - but for the benefit of readers who don't see the beautiful vision behind the IHASFEMR thread and IHASFEMR site, a few possibilities I haven't developed much are:

1. That the problems and challenges presented to humans - illustrated by, for example, Doom paintings and church wall paintings - may have been created to develop humans. Like planned 'natural' selection. Or like a mandatory fitness gym with occasionally terminal outcomes. And to exercise their neurons:





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_Suffering will make a man out of you. Source: __Westworld_

2. That humans are someone or something else's hobby. Their entertainment. As in every scenario, they - the hobbyists - are complex. Far more intelligent and resourceful than humans. In the hobbyist scenario they are curious about their creation - or their inherited creation. Curious about how it will react to this prod and that push.

3. That pretty much all information available to humans is 'information wash'. From Doom paintings to news reports. And thus not representative of wider Reality. No matter how much humans search out Reality and conjecture with the bits they think they've seen.

4. Or that StolenHistory might be an Artificial Intelligence (AI) training exercise. Using one Engineered Intelligence (EI) to help train AI and, in the process, exercise its own powers of vision.

Despite those and other possibilities, I've focused on butchery and organic production of material resources because being shocked at the possibility humans had been at the wrong end of Manimal Farm's cattle prod was the bolt-out-of-the-blue that tipped me into thinking about IHASFEMR in October 2020.

And because there is way more media to illustrate it.

I didn't conceive the possibility of batwings behind the Herod cordwainer-clown. Your sight is better than mine.

I did conceive of putting links from IHASFEMR.net's pages to StolenHistory forums so that readers - and their pig-penised rulers and bat-winged masters - can post comments here. But posting from external sites directly into StolenHistory threads seems to need a javascript shim to convert GETs to POSTs. That's one for another day


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## Belialith (Nov 30, 2022)

usselo said:


> I didn't conceive the possibility of batwings behind the Herod cordwainer-clown. Your sight is better than mine.



Hey, you see all sorts of things in history stuff that show strange monsters (wall carvings, stones carvings, vases etc), but then you see something on film or video that makes you think twice about what is really out there. Check out this video that I saw many years ago. It took a while to find it again. When I first came across it, it was only the phone recorded film by those guys who saw it, and I saved it into my playlists on youtube, but they disappeared, so either it was being censored or the person took it down for some reason. And now I find it in this format, so you'll need to go to the 00:50 part of the video to start watching what was captured on camera. When I first saw it, I went over it many times trying to figure out just what was taking place here.  But this was a time when the veil was dropping  and people were beginning to see behind the veil (thank you Dorothy and your dog Toto). So it was a strange thing then. Nevertheless, it's still strange looking at it because it has the same colouring of skin as aliens do. Like for example when I recently watched a Gina Maria Colvin Hill video that she took of some creepy looking dinosaur sized worms which she called 'hydra's' from a live video in Romania above a carnival center placed in the pit of a deep salt mine; those things were an ugly putrid greyish green brown colour, such as this creature in the video. Whether it's really a veil opened and this thing climbed out or it's a hologram, I don't know, just that, I thought it was real when I first saw it. And also, you might want to check out the symbolism that it does with its wings. It seems to be sending a message just before it takes off. Seems to me anyway.

Bat winged creature climbing up the side of a cathedral, then flying away.




And here's a video by Gina, with those creepy looking long dinosaur sized worms squiggling and wiggling toward the carnival area in the dark when no one is (supposedly) there. I was thinking that...and then I heard Gina haha saying that she hopes they're not eating something they're not suppose to be eating. And my mind went back to the illuminati, their rituals and how they cage children, or even parts and pieces I don't know it's so disgusting I don't care to continue description. So, these things have that ugly putrid grey green brownish colour to them as well, and I've seen the same colour in aliens in the ugly stupid dreams that I've had this past year. Those totally sicko creatures...anyway...they have that colour too when I saw them in my dreams at night. Except for one, which was pure black, but same shape as the other ugly ones, big bulbous head, overly large eyes, and this one had some bluish white light coming out of a point in each eyeball, with a haziness around it which reminds one of when a person goes blind and their eye is a dully hazy bluish white colour. Anyway, enough of that ugliness... here's the video she found (but I'm not sure if this is the video I watched. I'll have to watch it again then, oh my:

Creepshow dinosaur sized worms.




I don't think you started a monster. I think you started on the right path showing us much more than they've been allowing us to see, and putting it side by side so we can compare, and especially - giving us clues about symbolism - because they use symbols a heck of a lot to communicate with each other!


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## trismegistus (Nov 30, 2022)

Belialith said:


> Hey, you see all sorts of things in history stuff that show strange monsters (wall carvings, stones carvings, vases etc), but then you see something on film or video that makes you think twice about what is really out there. Check out this video that I saw many years ago. It took a while to find it again. When I first came across it, it was only the phone recorded film by those guys who saw it, and I saved it into my playlists on youtube, but they disappeared, so either it was being censored or the person took it down for some reason. And now I find it in this format, so you'll need to go to the 00:50 part of the video to start watching what was captured on camera. When I first saw it, I went over it many times trying to figure out just what was taking place here. But this was a time when the veil was dropping and people were beginning to see behind the veil (thank you Dorothy and your dog Toto). So it was a strange thing then. Nevertheless, it's still strange looking at it because it has the same colouring of skin as aliens do. Like for example when I recently watched a Gina Maria Colvin Hill video that she took of some creepy looking dinosaur sized worms which she called 'hydra's' from a live video in Romania above a carnival center placed in the pit of a deep salt mine; those things were an ugly putrid greyish green brown colour, such as this creature in the video. Whether it's really a veil opened and this thing climbed out or it's a hologram, I don't know, just that, I thought it was real when I first saw it. And also, you might want to check out the symbolism that it does with its wings. It seems to be sending a message just before it takes off. Seems to me anyway.
> 
> Bat winged creature climbing up the side of a cathedral, then flying away.



I don't want to take away from your greater point you are making in this thread, but that video you posted is a CG project done by some particularly solid animators, at least on an amateur level.  The textures of the wings were a bit off - resembled fabric instead of skin, and the floatiness of the creature was a bit unrealistic but they did a pretty good job overall.

From the video description, translated from spanish:


> These are paranormal videos created by us to entertain. All images shown are fictional. CGI (Computer Generated Image) Video Creature Creation and Video Editing: Jose Joaquin Perez Animation and Montage: Jimmy Jose Perez Thanks to our friends: Axl Aguilar Mayi Montenegro Oscar Morales


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## Belialith (Nov 30, 2022)

trismegistus said:


> I don't want to take away from your greater point you are making in this thread, but that video you posted is a CG project done by some particularly solid animators, at least on an amateur level.



   Thanks, appreciate it. These days it's so difficult to tell whether something is real or not when we have some skilled Disney productions thrown in to trip us up. 

Hey, what do you think of those stringy long snakelike wormy things in the other video? Have you seen anything like it? I've seen a heck of a lot of photos of snake-like structures in the historical data, and looking at those serpent mound pictures makes me wonder whether these strange creatures might be a lot older than we know.


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## scofield.htm (Nov 30, 2022)

(thank you Dorothy and your dog Toto)


Belialith said:


> Hey, you see all sorts of things in history stuff that show strange monsters (wall carvings, stones carvings, vases etc), but then you see something on film or video that makes you think twice about what is really out there. Check out this video that I saw many years ago. It took a while to find it again. When I first came across it, it was only the phone recorded film by those guys who saw it, and I saved it into my playlists on youtube, but they disappeared, so either it was being censored or the person took it down for some reason. And now I find it in this format, so you'll need to go to the 00:50 part of the video to start watching what was captured on camera. When I first saw it, I went over it many times trying to figure out just what was taking place here.  But this was a time when the veil was dropping  and people were beginning to see behind the veil (thank you Dorothy and your dog Toto).



BTW pop quiz do you know why the dog was named Toto?


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## TruthIsOnlyDelayed (Dec 1, 2022)

hzg7 said:


> His method works out in the opposite direction as well. Chimpanzees could be a back-crossed hybrid of humans, as well as the (spoiler) pig.  They have opposite features and when combined share a more complete feature set of a human, with the exception of bipedalism.  So what if it's the reverse. What if the pig and chimpanzee is a hybrid *from* the original human?


The ABC's of Beth


> After learning on the news that convicted child murderer Joseph Lipnip is set to be executed by lethal injection tonight for eating his son Thomas Lipnip, with his execution already drawing dozens more spectators, Bethremembers how she tried to cope with Tommy's disappearance by imagining that he got lost in her imaginary world called "Froopyland" and laughs at how silly it was. Rick then gets offended and reveals her "imaginary world" was actually one of his inventions created for her to play in. Beth realizes this means that Tommy might actually still be trapped in there and enters the realm with Rick. As Beth argues with Rick about spending her childhood in the "glorified chicken coop" instead of by his side, Rick is captured and nearly fed to the offspring of a giant bird-like creature, losing an arm in the process.
> 
> After fighting off the bird and her babies using a new mechanical arm, Rick and Beth discover that the lifeforms have been created and corrupted using human DNA, indicating that Tommy is indeed still trapped in the dimension. Beth theorizes that Tommy committed intercourse with the Froopyland creatures in order to produce children of which he would consume in order to sustain himself and Rick adds that it is also likely that the less appetizing of them (for Tommy) would worship Tommy as their god. Rick's assumption is revealed to be true once the two are captured by a group of Tommy's children (human/Froopyland creature hybrids). Upon being captured and brought before Tommy, they learn (to no surprise) that he has become the dimension's de facto leader and commits incest with his children as well as cannibalism to survive, just as Rick and Beth figured out.


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## feralimal (Dec 2, 2022)

Cross referencing a post from here: Interesting Videos

Link to the video

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwN3gtiFZZ0_


Sounds like the 'cabbage patch babies' idea was an early film narrative (perhaps the earliest?) that explains orphans, and even hybrids..?  Interesting logo the first film company 'Gaumont' has - a sun, with a 'G' in the middle.  Anyway, some interesting research there.

La Fée aux Choux - Wikipedia wiki says 'arguably the world's first narrative film' - ie the first film with a story, not simply documenting events. That in itself would make it noteworthy - the first story in film is of babies in cabbage patches?!

The narrator also mentions the 'garbage pail kids' - a kids, sticker craze.


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## TheImp (Dec 2, 2022)

feralimal said:


> Cross referencing a post from here: Interesting Videos
> 
> Link to the video
> 
> ...



Yeah, I watched this video this morning, as well. It's all just creepy the more you look at this stuff and look into it.


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## feralimal (Dec 2, 2022)

PS A french friend brought some 'cabbage' related French expressions to my notice.

'mon chou' - meaning my dear/love
'c'est chou' - meaning it's adorable

'bout d'chou': 'Cabbage bit' - meaning a small *child*
'être dans les choux': 'to be in the cabbages' - meaning to _fail_/to be in a daze
'Bête comme chou': - meaning _dumb_ as a cabbage
'en avoir dans le chou': to have a lot in the cabbage - meaning to be _smart_
'rentrer dans le chou': to ram into the cabbage - meaning to be _aggressive_
'faire chou blanc'; 'to make white cabbage' - meaning to _fail_
'faire ses choux gras': to make your fat cabbages - meaning to make _profit_

.. child, fail/dumb and smart

Also, famous old comedy movie 'la soupe aux choux" is about two farmers who accidentally summon an alien through their flatulence as they were eating cabbage soup. The alien really liked the soup.

^ which is rather surprising too!


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## TheImp (Dec 2, 2022)

feralimal said:


> PS A french friend brought some 'cabbage' related French expressions to my notice.
> 
> 'mon chou' - meaning my dear/love
> 'c'est chou' - meaning it's adorable
> ...


Made me recall the dish _maque choux_.


To quote the article I linked to:
"Most attribute maque choux to Louisiana and Cajun influence, but likely the dish originated much earlier, with Native Americans, and was adapted by settlers of Louisiana. The name, pronounced "mock shoe," could be from the Cajun French term _maigrchou_, translated as "thin child," referring to the addition of cream to thin out the dish. It could also be a French interpretation of the name for a Native American dish made with one of their indigenous "Three Sisters" crops, corn."


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## Belialith (Dec 2, 2022)

feralimal said:


> Cross referencing a post from here: Interesting Videos
> 
> Link to the video
> 
> _View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwN3gtiFZZ0_




I'm watching this thing now and I'm almost finished, but the thoughts just came tumbling through after all that I was trying to put together of this strange plot.

They use a lot of reference to a calf or cow which could represent the constellation of Taurus with that giant red star Aldebaran, known through Theresa Talea's book "Eternal Humans and the Finite gods" to be a hub for controller or dominating aliens.

Also, the Black Sun is a symbol of the Nazi's but this black sun was known before the Nazi's were known...goes back into history, which can be found in the Supersoldier conversations (as well as in some of the book by Theresa Talea). But, you get it? The sauerkraut of Germans that comes from cabbage?

And talking about them, James Rink of Super Soldier Talk did a video recently, that I watched, where he asked a seer enslaved to the Mk Ultra system of death science technology of the fallen, asked her who that lady was that he saw in his youth, named Gloria Vanderbilt, at 1:45:44 of the video. She said she's a vampire, and that they use people for blood in order to stay young. And in these cabbage patch kids there is reference to heads being chopped off, or just pictures of little children's heads in a cabbage, and there is evidence out there of children being beheaded and the blood gathered for adrenochrome for those alien elite's use. Even a horrible video of two little children being interviewed and telling us how their father made them to help cut off the baby's head and then, they prepared it for dinner as well. Heinous things.

There are reference to snakes in those photos, which mean, scales, reptiles, cold blooded. There are also structures used in those films, the background, alien architecture. I can't explain because it goes off into never never land, but those two poles on each side of a curved in figure in the middle, like a figure 8 almost, or a vesica piscis design, which suck energy through the long poles or towers, or today...cell towers. And that ugly large thing of a being with teeth hanging out everywhere...and those guys that were serving a king? and now serving that huge monstrosity of a being by dumping large things in its mouth? Well, the illuminati have to pay their masters by culling life on the planet so that they can eat, and only through doing that are they able to stay wealthy because those creepers creep around invisibly through clouds and manipulate everyone and everything, or almost everyone and everything. Nevertheless, even so, the illuminati are not immune to being destroyed by their masters their own self, and hence, supposedly they not only do it for money but also for fear of their own lives, because they too are slaves to those intruders.

There is a lot of symbolism written into those pictures, and into those description...such as for example, the word "Fee" in French...sounds like, when translated into English, at face value, to pay a Fee.


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## feralimal (Dec 4, 2022)

I just bumped into a couple of random, yet relevant-ish things that made me think of this thread.

1.
burger | Etymology, origin and meaning of burger by etymonline
"native of Hamburg."


> The meat product was so called by 1880 (as hamburg steak); if it was named for the German city _no certain connection has ever been put forth_, and there may not be one unless it be that Hamburg was a major port of departure for German immigrants to United States. An 1809 account of life and manners in Iceland says _meat smoked in the chimney there is referred to as *Hamburg beef*_.



"no certain connection has ever been put forth"  Well, I guess its just one of those mysteries!

"meat smoked in the chimney there is referred to as Hamburg beef"  Ho ho ho!  There's got to be a Santa joke there somewhere...  but maybe I've overcooked it  

Also, the fact that burgers are typically beef, not ham, even in the etymology, means the idea that that the term is from pork meat doesn't really work.

2.
Tefillin - Wikipedia


> Tefillin or phylacteries, are a set of *small *_*black leather boxes*_ with leather straps containing scrolls of parchment inscribed with verses from the Torah.





> The arm-tefillah (or _shel yad_ [literally "of the hand"]) is placed on the upper (non-dominant) arm, and the strap wrapped around the forelimb, hand and middle finger; while the head-tefillah (or _shel rosh_ [literally "of the head"]) is placed *between the eyes* at the boundary of the forehead and hair. They are intended to fulfill the Torah's instructions to maintain a continuous "sign" and "*remembrance*" of the Exodus from Egypt, as they were originally worn all day, from sunrise to sunset.



2 of the 4 parchments, in the black boxes, are these:


> And the LORD spoke to Moses, saying: '_*Sanctify to Me all the first-born, whatever opens the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and of animal, it is Mine.*_' And Moses said to the people: 'Remember this day, in which you came out from Egypt, out of the house of bondage; for by strength of hand the LORD brought you out from this place; no leavened bread shall be eaten. This day you go forth in the Spring month. And it shall be when the LORD shall bring you into the land of the Canaanite, and the Hittite, and the Amorite, and the Hivite, and the Jebusite, which He swore unto your fathers to give you, a land flowing with milk and honey, that you shall keep this service in this month. Seven days you shall eat unleavened bread, and the seventh day shall be a feast to the LORD. Unleavened bread shall be eaten throughout the seven days; and no leavened bread shall be seen with you, neither shall there be leaven seen with you, in all your borders. And so shall you tell your son on that day, saying: It is because of that which the LORD did for me when I came forth out of Egypt. And it shall be for a sign for you upon your hand, and as a memorial between your eyes, that the law of the LORD may be in your mouth; for with a strong hand has the LORD brought you out of Egypt. You shalt therefore keep this ordinance in its season from year to year.



"'Sanctify to Me all the first-born, whatever opens the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and of animal, it is Mine'".  And so sayeth the Lord.  You (well, I) have to wonder whether leavened bread has a secondary meaning.



> When the LORD brings you into the land of the Canaanite, as He swore unto you and to your fathers, and shall give it to you, *you shall set apart to the LORD all that opens the womb; every firstborn animal shall be the LORD'S. *Every firstborn donkey you shall redeem with a sheep, and if you will not redeem it, then you shall break its neck; and all the first-born of man among your sons shall you redeem. And when your son asks you in time to come, saying: What is this? say to him: By strength of hand the LORD bring us out from Egypt, from the house of bondage; and when Pharaoh found it hard to let us go *the LORD killed all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both the first-born of man, and the first-born of animals; therefore I sacrifice to the LORD all males that open the womb, and redeem all my first-born sons.* And it shall be for a sign upon your hand, and as "totafot" between your eyes; for by strength of hand the LORD brought us forth out of Egypt.



In this one, it sounds like more than ritual as the father has to explain the Lords right to the first born.

Both of these parchments sound contractual to me.  In fact, all 4 parchments seem very contractual - the 2 above are the 'meat and bones' of the contract, whereas the other 2 (not quoted) relate to how the contract ought to be honoured and kept through the generations (the terms and conditions).

Both the above parchments are treating man in the same terms as livestock.

Why would you choose these contractual sounding parchments that promise the first born of man and animal to the Lord to be put into a black box that you use to pray with?  Surely, you would have something more about how wonderful God is something..  it just seems so specific!

The use of the term 'remembrance' is also curious, and echoes the New Testament 'Lords supper', where Jesus says to eat bread and drink wine (signifying body and blood) in _remembrance_ of him.

In all it sounds a bit like: 'remember the contract that was struck to give your first born, animal and man, to the Lord'.


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## Belialith (Dec 4, 2022)

feralimal said:


> I just bumped into a couple of random, yet relevant-ish things that made me think of this thread.
> 
> 1.
> burger | Etymology, origin and meaning of burger by etymonline
> ...



Oh yea, wow. 
When I read that book "Eternal Humans and the Finite gods" by Theresa Talea, she talks about that so called 'god' that people were taught to worship and which the Jews wrote their bible upon, and so many others...she says that it's the same alien group, the Jehovah group. Even Cosmic Awareness says the same thing, that they are not one person, they're a group of aliens. Anyway, in that Theresa Talea book, she says how that so called 'god' plays everyone to get what it wants. Even the bible said it. It said that Jehovah had hardened the heart of the Pharaoh. And so, all of them, the Egyptians and the Jews were the sacrifice for a bunch of alien vampires. 

The Jews, or truly, the Hebrew of the bunch, say that they know very well that there is a Satanic influence, portion, part, that is in their family, and we all know that too, I mean, look at the banksters whose name we all know, and therefore they all protect themselves from them, in their own group. Anyway, those satanic beings who call themselves Jews and have infiltrated them, are those who are the performers of sacrifices to this very day, of children, and adults too. Well we know that there is a ring of peedo's you know? There are a lot of them from that evil group that the Hebrew's protect themselves as best they can from.

It's a bit strange that the cabbage is used as a symbol when we all know that German's use a lot of that sauerkraut as a main food staple in their diet, and now, yea, Hamburg, the name used for hamburger. Just a bit too synchronistic I'd say.


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## feralimal (Dec 4, 2022)

Belialith said:


> It's a bit strange that the cabbage is used as a symbol when we all know that German's use a lot of that sauerkraut as a main food staple in their diet, and now, yea, Hamburg, the name used for hamburger. Just a bit too synchronistic I'd say.


Frankfurt too for frankfurter!


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## Belialith (Dec 4, 2022)

feralimal said:


> Frankfurt too for frankfurter!



Oh my gosh, that is so weird. Yea, a hotdog, a Frankfurter. (A Frankenstein really. Who knows what they put into the food these days!)

Haha. I was just looking at some recipes on line when this cabbage caught my eye so I clicked on it to see...and look, they use a 'head' of cabbage with the 'top' chopped out and then it is filled with "milk."

"... A friend from Germany taught me how to cook cabbage ..."

Wow, I'm so grateful for that "edit" button, because I remembered those adrenochrome papers I saw a couple years ago and went to go find them, but I didn't find the one's from Germany which I was specifically looking for because they talked about the ages of the children they were using in their laboratory.
   So this is from Telegram, at "Declassified Files - 10 Days Of Darkness" posted on January 31, 2021, and they wrote: "Adrenochrome Off Topic, but very substantial evidence on the existence of Children's organ harvesting for the drug that sinister individuals with power consume."

There are 9 photos, one of a brown glass dropper bottle with a label on it and the other 8 are paperwork photos. I hope this downloads from my computer.... Yes! They did.


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## TheImp (Dec 4, 2022)

Some more interesting notes on cabbage, some sources claim that in English it is derived via a fusion of two Latin words (caput + boce) further up the language chain, meaning head and bump respectively. The German word is kohl (so shopping at Cabbage's is a thing), and in some other languages, kool is used instead. There is certainly some weirdness to be explored when examining word origins for sure. 

I wonder how many cities are named after cabbages?


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## Laughingprophet (Dec 4, 2022)

Interesting thread. I’ve looked a little into our obscure origins. which have been blurred deliberately. There’s the ‘arrival’  of cro-magnon man around 40000 years ago, who differed from the Neanderthals…Scientists are always in search of the ‘missing link’ in the evolution to homo sapien from our ape ancestors. we are not really taught much on this subject, just expected to accept the current understanding and patiently wait for the answer to come. (Do farm animals ponder their genetics I wonder…?) 
Switch to to the stories from ancient civilisations around the globe who attribute their recovery from cataclysm or emergence into the ‘light’ to mysterious teachers who came from across the sea or from the heavens…the Christian story of Noah’s ark…the amazing tech carved into indias temples…the sacred geometry built in temples around the globe…there is a pattern to all of this and I put forward the case that Aliens came across this planet long ago, nd it’s abundant life and resources and began to extract whatever it was they wanted…soon enough they thought that if they adjusted the design f the primates, they would have a willing slave labour source. This they did- perhaps the missing link really doesn’t exist, more of a lab grow DNA leap. Thus the Alieans could sit back and let their newly created slaves work for them. If you were wanting to set something like this up, what better control mechanism than making yourself a deity, the slaves god. occasional displays of your tech, the odd sacrifice of unruly slaves and hey presto you have control. Appoint some native overseers who are given extra privileges ( think Rothschilds, Rockefeller’s in our current age) and we the ‘owners’ f his planet can remain anonymous. Perhaps the overseers developed a taste for cruelty, or maybe the Owners taught it to them. Perhaps the owners are oblivious to the cruelty, I don’t know…but the continuous slaughter of the slaves clearly occurred and continues to this day. The exploitation of humans ( look up this word in Blacks Law Dictionary!) for their blood, flesh and fear is well reported - Yet heavily suppressed into marginal ‘conspiracy theory‘ by the very much complicit media or propaganda unit of the overseers. We exist because our DNA was altered. Garden of eden was a compound, a laboratory…Noah’s Arc was a DNA safe storage facility..we have been fed a bullshit history, are taught only how to work and our every sense is flattened with a continuos stream of propaganda, chemicals in our food and water, chemicals in our ’medicines’ ,we are kept deliberately in the dark much like animals on a farm. we are farmed. Our energy is harvested whilst living, ur deaths provide sustenance of some kind too…but threads like this are like wire cutters to the fences that hold us. Keep on being curious, keep on putting the pieces together.


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## nap4 (Dec 5, 2022)

Laughingprophet said:


> Thus the Alieans could sit back and let their newly created slaves work for them. If you were wanting to set something like this up, what better control mechanism than making yourself a deity, the slaves god. occasional displays of your tech, the odd sacrifice of unruly slaves and hey presto you have control. Appoint some native overseers who are given extra privileges ( think Rothschilds,


This kind of explanation of enslavement by higher forms of intelligence sounds pretty but I feel it lacks substance. 

In the first place, what does being more intelligent look like? If they are truly smarter.  Couldn't they rationally explain their methods to us? Also, shouldn't they be able to directly force us into submission and not hide in the shadows? And if oppression isn't good for optimization, then wouldn't they just modify the slaves or find another species? The whole charade operation seems inefficient.

Also there seems to be nothing special that humans do except meddling with everything.  Not just a sideshow for entertainment, or farmed for food, or made for labor. but at the center of life itself.  


Belialith said:


> in that Theresa Talea book, she says how that so called 'god' plays everyone to get what it wants.


However, if we are part of the higher intelligence, it might make sense that the "god-head" is playing both sides (like left and right brain) in order to achieve desirable outcomes.


hzg7 said:


> So what if it's the reverse. What if the pig and chimpanzee is a hybrid *from* the original human?


 Taking it further, we can look at humans as a center of the intelligence problem as well as the center of genetics. The evolution tree places humans at the end of infinite genetic branches. We are completely without meaning and back on the  "speck of dust" in the cosmos.  in IHASFEMR, the objective absence of human value appears true.  But  that's the glass is half empty. There is also a good side to human life and there is value that questions whether we can be reduced to cattle.  

Let's consider the opposite possibilities. What if humans are the center of intelligence? The highest state of existence. How would life form around such beings? What if farming and experimenting on one's own species is exactly what this higher form of intelligence would do? 


usselo said:


> 1. That the problems and challenges presented to humans - illustrated by, for example, Doom paintings and church wall paintings - may have been created to develop humans. Like planned 'natural' selection. Or like a mandatory fitness gym with occasionally terminal outcomes. And to exercise their neurons:


If humans are the center of the cosmic intelligence, --whether it's considered artificial or engineered-- then it would be safe to assume  they maximize the necessary instrumentation to develop and gain knowledge for the greater good. It is worth considering that it is not a computer that crunches numbers to get knowledge, but through life experiences that requires the greatest amount of joys and sufferings.


Belialith said:


> _*they were now being shut up themselves*_ because there is no way for the people to not notice all the evil that has occurred.


It's sometimes hard to read stolen history with any optimism. So that is a nicer way to put things. We have to believe that truth will endure and good will come out from all the evil as the night is darkest before the dawn.


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## usselo (Dec 12, 2022)

usselo said:


> And there are tunnels under Derby (England). See The secret tunnels under a city that council bosses don't want you to see:


From Hidden Wirral Myths & Legends - The Wormhole Caves of New Brighton:


> [Wirral's tunnels are]... a significant part of the local heritage that demands further enquiry, but the current writer (Gavin Chappell) frequently found himself up against a brick wall – sometimes literally – as he struggled to uncover the truth behind these rumours. Tunnels had been blocked up as soon as they were discovered; the publication of Mr Ruiz’s book apparently resulted in the blocking of all the Red Noses tunnel entrances; documents had mysteriously vanished from the reference sections of libraries whose staff were oddly brusque and unhelpful: finally, the writer was warned that all information on the subject had been suppressed by the local authority.




_Wormhole caves. More images at __New Brighton Resort History_​
From the same page comes one of many descriptions of Poll Jones - AKA Mother Redcap - the red-capped hostellier famed for providing sailors with ham and eggs and private banking services:


> Near Egremont, on the shore, there used to be a little low public-house, known as “Mother Redcap’s,” from the fact of the owner always wearing a red hood or cap.  This public-house is still standing.  I have often been in it.  At that time there were no inner walls to divide the room on the upper floor; but only a few screens put up of about seven or eight feet in height to form apartments.  The roof was not latted or plastered.  When I last saw it, some twenty-five years or more ago, the joists and timbers were all open to view.  Mother Redcap was a great favourite with the sailor-men and had their entire confidence.  She had hiding-places for any number, and the men used, on returning from their voyages, to deposit with her their pay and prize-money, until they wanted it.  It was known, or at least, very commonly believed, that Mother Redcap had in her possession enormous (for her) sums of money, hidden or put away somewhere; but where that somewhere was, it was never known; for, at her death, very little property was found in her possession, although only a few days before she was taken ill and died, a rich prize was brought into Liverpool which yielded every sailor on board at least a thousand pounds.  Mother Redcap’s was swarming with sailors belonging to the privateer, directly after the vessel had come into port, and it was known that the old lady had received a good deal of the prize-money on their account, yet none of it was ever discovered.  It is a very remarkable circumstance that some few years ago, I think about ten or twelve, but I forget exactly when, a quantity of money in spade-ace guineas was found in a cavity by the shore, not far from Mother Redcap’s.




_Mother Redcap's before its 1960 demolition. __Source_​
Mother Redcap's site: (Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images)

And:


> Mother Redcap's was riddled with storage places, and was stoutly defended against attack: the door was five inches thick, and heavily reinforced, and the windows had shutters in a similar style. A customs officer who succeeded in entering the door could be precipitated into the cellar via a trapdoor on the threshold: forcing the door released a catch that opened the trapdoor.
> 
> Opening the front door closed off the entrance to one of the rooms, so visitors unfamiliar with the layout of the pub would either walk upstairs, or into the north room, unaware of a second ground floor room to the south. Numerous other hiding places were concealed in a well and in the chimney breast.



And:


> By the 1950s the house had come into the possession of the Grimshaw family, whose son Wolfgang was a childhood friend of local historian Joseph “Pepe” Ruiz. In the latter’s book Beachcombers, Buttercreams and Smuggler’s Caves he relates his experiences of the building in its later years. One day the two boys decided to investigate the place, having become fascinated by local legends of smugglers. Digging in the south west corner they got down no more than a foot before their spades met a large sandstone slab, which further excavations revealed to be part of a set of steps leading downwards. They discovered a Celtic cross before night fell, and decided to return to their examination in the morning. Mysteriously, the cross vanished in the night.



And:


> An article in the Wirral News stated that the developers found no trace of tunnels while building the nursing home (which replaced Mother Redcap's). However, Mrs Joan McCool of Rivington Road, who had worked at the Galleon Club in the fifties, asserted that the passages had existed. Behind the bar there had been a large bank with several tunnels that had been partially filled in with beer bottles. To the left of the bar there was a large slit, which would go unnoticed unless drawn to a visitor’s attention. This could be entered sideways, and led to a black, damp tunnel running behind the bar and seeming to go on much further.
> 
> The former proprietor of the Galleon Club, Mrs Inga Kneale, who used to run it with her former husband said that although she had never found tunnels “of any length” she was sure that they existed, and had always felt that someone was watching her. A previous owner had excavated the dance floor and even used a donkey while searching for the passages, but had been unsuccessful. A geo-physical survey in the mid seventies also failed to reveal any sign of tunnels (see next chapter).
> 
> A letter from Mrs Marion Fisher, former owner of an hotel in Wellington Road, mentioned a long stay resident, a builder, who had been working on Mother Redcap’s. Part of his work had been to fill in the well, which this account describes as “square and situated at the front of the house.” He told Mrs Fisher that down the well were three entrances to tunnels. Some of the tunnels had caved in, but the one that ran to St Hilary’s was intact. Another ran “under some nearby cottages” – presumably Seabank Cottages – while the third was “believed to run somewhere via the docks to an old Birkenhead church, possibly the priory”.



And:


> in October 1974. Joseph Ruiz records that during the demolition a bulldozer that was knocking down the gents toilets (built on the south side of the house in the 1950s) fell through a hole in the ground, revealing – after it was pulled out by two other bulldozers – a large well with an entrance door part of the way down. Bottles, jars and flagons, some dating back to the eighteenth century, had been found during the demolition, some of which seem to correspond to the bottles that supposedly had been used to fill in the entrances to the tunnels. The workers recognised this as the famous “smugglers’ well” (the well to the south of the building mentioned above), and one man suggested his mates lower him down to the door and they inform the museum authorities. The foreman, however, insisted that the well be filled in, and threatened instant dismissal to anyone contacting the museum.



And finally:


> In 1897, Gomer William was moved to consider the “striking contrast between Mother Red Cap’s humble hostelry” with its larcenous and piratical patrons “and the present beautiful home of the artist [Joseph Kitchingham]” which he regarded as “typical of the moral transformation” people had undergone over the past century.


I'd like to see the source of that reference. It seems fairly clear that a sustained effort has gone into achieving it.

Various pages linked to from Hidden Wirral Myths & Legends describe more Wirral tunnels:

New Brighton Smugglers
Hidden Well of New Brighton
New Brighton Resort History
SS Peter and Paul Tunnel
New Brighton Ghost Stories
Wirral's Mysterious Churches
And many more links on the site. They are also discussed in many other Wirral discussion sites, such as WikiWirral.

As you go looking for the termination points of these and other Wirral tunnels, you realise they are running around the former quarries on the flanks of Bidston Hill and under the hill itself. (Google Maps), (Google Streetview), (OpenStreetMap), (Flickr images)

Wikipedia speculates the name Bidston Hill comes from:


> variations of the Old English name 'Beda' or 'Byddi' combined with _ton_, or from 'bytle stan', meaning a dwelling on a rock, or possibly a reference to a 'bidding-stone' for a venerated Saxon.



I'll go with 'bidding stone' partly because Wikipedia's final 'possible' explanations tend to be the IHASFEMR-supporting explanation. And partly because two more apparent bidding stones can be found at the mouth of the Clyde - also on the British west coast. Both are also associated with a witch or dominant woman, with sailors looking to trade for supplies, and nearby stones carved with alleged 'Viking' imagery.

And then we have the ownership of The Wirral's Bidston Hill. From Bidston Hill:


> The clear association with the Mascys (Masseys) remained until the land was sold around the mid 14th Century to Henry, 4th Earl of Lancaster. This purchase was in proxy for the LeStranges, and on the Earl's death Roger LeStrange assumed possession of the Dunham barony. Legal claims by the descendents of Hamon Mascy V were raised against the LeStrange ownership but the status quo remained and on the 24th June 1347 John Le Strange, son of Roger, sold the manor of Bidston and other lands



Which of course reminds us of the word 'mass' again and another quarry site on the other side of England. From post-104859:


> What there is a lot of documentation for is the alleged creation of Hunstanton by Hamon le Strange of the once-moated Old Hunstanton Hall. Which turns out to have seemingly unnecessary tunnel running from near its local church to, presumably the hall itself. But you can possibly connect the dots if you remember that 'Jamon' (with the 'J' pronounced as 'H') is Spanish for 'ham'. And that 'extranjero' is Spanish for 'foreign'. In fact the founding story of Hunstanton - and its architecture - is hammy.


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## TheImp (Dec 13, 2022)

usselo said:


> From Hidden Wirral Myths & Legends - The Wormhole Caves of New Brighton:
> 
> 
> View attachment 26704View attachment 26705
> ...



A fantastic and fascinating write-up, usselo. One wonders how much we could discover if we had the time to just go digging. If I wasn't tied up with the banalities of the system that has been set up for us, I would be actively looking for buried things.


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## scofield.htm (Dec 14, 2022)

usselo said:


> I'll go with 'bidding stone' partly because Wikipedia's final 'possible' explanations tend to be the IHASFEMR-supporting explanation. And partly because two more apparent bidding stones can be found at the mouth of the Clyde - also on the British west coast. Both are also associated with a witch or dominant woman, with sailors looking to trade for supplies, and nearby stones carved with alleged 'Viking' imagery.
> 
> And then we have the ownership of The Wirral's Bidston Hill. From Bidston Hill:
> 
> ...


More from Bidston:

The 'Cock-Pit' is another strange feature on the Hill to be found at the very northern end near to Bidston Hall. Consisting of a narrow circular trench, approximately 10 inches deep and 20 feet in diameter cut into the bare sandstone surrounded by tall gorse bushes. Thought to be the site where cock-fighting took place, it could also be the remains of a small gorse mill where gorse was crushed for animal feed. An old, disused mill would have been an ideal location for this illegal sport.


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## usselo (Dec 14, 2022)

I've meant to add to earlier speculation about the mechanisms that trigger the loyalty loop. Seeing Frostychud's post reminded me to dig out additional evidence for high-contrast triggers.

Frostychud said:


> Usselo took it a step further by breaking the loyalty loop down to its most concrete "switches": black and white colors, certain words, sounds, etc. This is eerily similar to what cults and intelligence agencies do to hollow out humans and make them slaves. I guess zombification was one of the "technologies" left to certain people by the Fallen Angels before they disappeared, along with makeup and metallurgy. It also suggest that we were indeed programmed at some point with "system override" commands. I believe that psychoanalysis, among other techniques, is a way of hacking back into the operating system and undoing the loyalty loops.



For background, previous loyalty loop posts were:

Loyalty loop
Observations on high contrast stimulation and reduction of information as deliberate triggers
Flagging authority/superiority with black and white or contrasting colours - various images in the Clown thread
To summarise: the conjecture was that humans may have been designed to fail (intellectually) when confronted with high contrast stimulus, especially high contrast visual stimulus. That high contrast visuals (and perhaps other situations) put human processing into an intellectually weak mode by depriving the brain of nuance.  I also speculated that high contrast creates a reduction in the information available for humans to use to assess the various risks in their situation.

Perhaps the rapid alternation between, for example, two contrasting colours moves the brain back and forth between two 'information positions', each of which is very limited in the options its presents. The only option seems to be: escape towards the other information position, to which the situation duly switches just a moment later.

It's a little hard to capture what I mean in words, especially because I am guessing. 

Now, the additional evidence for this speculation:

John 'Boney' Fuller headed up post-WWI British Army training, helped develop Blitzkreig and was very involved with developing new technologies into the operational practice of mobile warfare. This is what you read about Fuller if you go looking. Who knows what's true...

He went on to help operationalise a secret flickering light technology codenamed the Canal Defence Light (CDL):





Your browser is not able to display this video.



_Matilda. A mobile CDL. __Source_

Obviously, vertical slits in turrets remind us of castle technology. I'm inclined to think castles were not defensive structures but fortified stock-pens. They may have needed CDL aperture, or they may not.

We're not told why the CDL aperture had to be a slit or why it was vertical. So let's just focus on the flashing light and its ability to immobilise some soldiers.

The Tank Museum does not claim CDLs gave soldiers seizures, preferring to claim it disoriented them. But in Why do newsreaders make such a big deal about flash photography?  the Guardian tells us flashing lights can provoke seizures in about 5% of British people.

So there does seem to be some aspect of the human brain (or perhaps just the British brain) that shuts down or goes AWOL when faced with high contrast lights. It may be that this is a vestige, a remnant of a deliberate back door.

Assuming what the media tells us is true, there seems to be enough faith in its effectiveness that the Russian military have continued working on it:





Your browser is not able to display this video.



_Source: Link lost_

My Russian isn't fantastic but I think the commentator says: "the British think CDLs were a flop. They will see the light."

So, no conclusions. Just some more evidence that the human (or hominid) brain seems to have a backdoor triggered by certain high contrast visual stimulus.


TheImp said:


> One wonders how much we could discover if we had the time to just go digging. If I wasn't tied up with the banalities of the system that has been set up for us, I would be actively looking for buried things.


Indeed. I used to think a civilian service requirement was another way of exploiting people. Working on IHASFEMR material has changed my mind. I now think we should all do our bit to maintain ourselves, each other (our society) and that our society should protect us from exploitation by others and itself. Somewhere in that mix should be a requirement that society makes resources available to investigate our past and present realities. If only to improve our understanding of our natures and our current position.


scofield.htm said:


> The 'Cock-Pit' is another strange feature on the Hill to be found at the very northern end near to Bidston Hall. Consisting of a narrow circular trench, approximately 10 inches deep and 20 feet in diameter cut into the bare sandstone surrounded by tall gorse bushes. Thought to be the site where cock-fighting took place, it could also be the remains of a small gorse mill where gorse was crushed for animal feed. An old, disused mill would have been an ideal location for this illegal sport.


Yes, that is interesting. I've seen a few references to cock-pits on hills. Or to 'Cock Hill', generally while looking for sites of rock-cut tombs.

Currently, my suspicion is that 'Cock' is derived from 'Koch' - a hint that these were originally cooking pits.


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## Frostychud (Dec 15, 2022)

usselo said:


> To summarise: the conjecture was that humans may have been designed to fail (intellectually) when confronted with high contrast stimulus, especially high contrast visual stimulus. That high contrast visuals (and perhaps other situations) put human processing into an intellectually weak mode by depriving the brain of nuance. I also speculated that high contrast creates a reduction in the information available for humans to use to assess the various risks in their situation.
> 
> Perhaps the rapid alternation between, for example, two contrasting colours moves the brain back and forth between two 'information positions', each of which is very limited in the options its presents. The only option seems to be: escape towards the other information position, to which the situation duly switches just a moment later.



This makes me think of the hypnosis techniques developed by Milton Erickson:

_"A famous example of using resistance and a “double bind” occurred when Erickson was a boy. One day Erickson was helping his father coax a stubborn calf into the family barn. Try as they might to pull the calf into the barn, it didn’t budge. He realized that the calf wished to resist, accepted it, and pulled the opposite end on it’s tail – away from the barn. The new input of the boy pulling on the tail negated the father pulling on the head and the calf went into the barn. He used this as a classic psychological example of a double bind – where the subject becomes overwhelmed and is emotionally “pulled” in two conflicting directions. Thus, the confused individual successfully accepts one form of resistance and fails to respond to the other."_

Note that the calf will sooner or later be eaten.

It is a little unusual to read this post today, because not two hours ago I was sitting at home in front of the fire when I heard someone banging on the door. I opened it, expecting to see my girlfriend home early or perhaps the neighbor asking for another onion. Instead I saw two cops, just like in the movies, brandishing badges. "Polizei. What is your name?" barked the man in front of me without saying hello. Short-circuited by this completely unexpected question and situation, I told him my name like a programmed automaton without thinking to inspect the badge. If he had asked me to empty my pockets, take off all my clothes, or bark like a dog, I probably would have done it without even knowing what I was doing. That is a humiliating thing to realize. I mention the badge inspection because this happened to me once before, in France, except the two "cops" were actually actors filming a hidden camera prank. One of these two cops was a "sexy lady cop" whose badge turned out to be an obvious plastic fake. Although I _saw _it, I was incapable of perceiving it until I had already been apprised of the deception, at which point I realized how obviously fake the setup was. In both cases there were two cops who alternated rapid-fire questions (although I suspect one cop would be enough to do the trick). There is a reason they use the "good cop/bad cop" routine to bully people. It turns out today's cops were looking for the guy on the floor below me. I have not done anything particularly illegal recently, but as both Kafka and Freud point out, we are all inherently guilty before the Law whether or not we have actually done anything wrong. One of the ways governments force compliance is by making the Law subtly or explicitly self-contradictory so that no matter what one does, one is always guilty of SOMETHING. Ultimately, legal "authority" is not grounded in some political or philosophical necessity as we learn in school but in the pre-installed feeling of shame that is inevitably activated when we are faced with avatars of Power. Or to put it in the language of this thread, the Law is just the elaboration of a mechanism, the loyalty loop, which exists solely to trap prey. It is a pure sadism-masochism hypnotic program, in my opinion, one that I now believe has been installed on purpose, thanks in large part to Usselo's work. Freud argued that criminals are, as a general rule, masochists who are unconsciously convinced of their own infinite existential guilt. As a result, they tend to seek out opportunities to be caught and punished; having their chronic free-floating, objectless guilt transformed into a concrete accusation, for a concrete crime, associated with a concrete punishment, is the only way for them to "contain" and metabolize this original "transcendental" guilt and shame.

Here are the last two paragraphs of Kafka's "The Trial". For those unfamiliar with the classic novel, it begins with the protagonist, K, being arrested without explanation. We then follow his absurd and confusing journey through the incomprehensible legal machine, which ends with him being executed, having never understood what the charges against him were. Notice again we have two executioners who engage in a hypnotic back-and-forth ritual.

_Then one of the gentlemen opened his frock coat and from a sheath hanging on a belt stretched across his waistcoat he withdrew a long, thin, double-edged butcher's knife which he held up in the light to test its sharpness. The repulsive courtesies began once again, one of them passed the knife over K. to the other, who then passed it back over K. to the first. K. now knew it would be his duty to take the knife as it passed from hand to hand above him and thrust it into himself. But he did not do it, instead he twisted his neck, which was still free, and looked around. He was not able to show his full worth, was not able to take all the work from the official bodies, he lacked the rest of the strength he needed and this final shortcoming was the fault of whoever had denied it to him. As he looked round, he saw the top floor of the building next to the quarry. He saw how a light flickered on and the two halves of a window opened out, somebody, made weak and thin by the height and the distance, leant suddenly far out from it and stretched his arms out even further. Who was that? A friend? A good person? Somebody who was taking part? Somebody who wanted to help? Was he alone? Was it everyone? Would anyone help? Were there objections that had been forgotten? There must have been some. The logic cannot be refuted, but someone who wants to live will not resist it. Where was the judge he'd never seen? Where was the high court he had never reached? He raised both hands and spread out all his fingers.

But the hands of one of the gentleman were laid on K.'s throat, while the other pushed the knife deep into his heart and twisted it there, twice. As his eyesight failed, K. saw the two gentlemen cheek by cheek, close in front of his face, watching the result. "Like a dog!" he said, it was as if the shame of it should outlive him._

First, I believe that great artists are in contact with universal fantasies, experiences and memories, and I think it is possible that Kafka is here channeling a real collective trauma, that of submitting voluntarily to sacrifice by blade. Note also that the "ontological" feeling of shame is so strong that over the course of the novel the main character never once really questions whether or not he deserves what is happening to him. He just accepts it. It has been suggested here at IHASFEMR that the mechanism by which victims are tricked into self-sacrifice is religious exaltation. I would like to suggest that shame may be just as effective a means of pushing human cattle to offer themselves as literal food for their masters. Or even better, by creating two irreconcilable poles (shame and exaltation) between which the individual is made to cycle with no possibility of resolution, a "gap" is opened into which pure, naked, sadistic authority can be poured. Look at the paradox of Protestantism, for example. Grace cannot be "purchased" through either indulgences or good works. One either has divine grace or one does not and nothing can change that. You can't "buy" your way into Heaven. One would think that a theology like this would lead people to live apathetically or even anarchistically, but the contrary is true. Since there is no external mechanism in place to guarantee whether one has been saved or not (such as the blessing of a Catholic priest, corrupt or not), Protestants lose themselves in rule-following and virtue-signaling paroxysms. They have to, because they are trying to prove to _themselves _that they are saved, not to an institution limited by rules and traditions. Obviously they will never encounter any guarantee, so they must continue until they exhaust themselves in orgies of gratuitous morality and finally die. It's a much more clever mechanism for creating self-farming animals than, for example, Catholicism. Perhaps this Protestant logic could be described as not just a loyalty loop, but a triple octane self-catalyzing loyalty spiral. There is a reason the Northern European countries are so excited about the new Green Slave System: it is just Protestantism 2.0 with The Climate in the place of God. Make no mistake, many of the Germans who are freezing at home right now are pleased as punch that they have this new opportunity to prove to themselves and each other how good they are (not to mention the even more exciting opportunities for snitching it presents). The supplicants are (probably) not going to be eaten this time, but the demand from Power is the same as it always was: SACRIFICE YOURSELF. Actually, I do find convincing the theory that disembodied entities feed on energy released through suffering and death, and suspect that the "human on human" (or "unknown chimerical biological entity on human") cannibalism so horrifically detailed here is more a case of humans imitating gods than humans simply indulging in forbidden gourmandise. In other words, cannibalism has a "cargo cult" element since the disembodied "gods" never actually ate the flesh, as ancient texts make clear, just the energy. (This also explains why the Covid measures were more nakedly authoritarian in Catholic Europe. They had to be, since Catholics still function within an external loyalty loop paradigm rather than an internalized loyalty spiral. They need to be beaten every once in a while, otherwise they will cheat. Hence also the constant anti-Catholic propaganda: the NWO control grid is fundamentally Protestant in its functioning in that it is self-policing, masochistic, and horizontal, with very few priests necessary, whereas the older, more sadistic Catholic control structure depends on a hierarchy of priests that always risk being lured into venal corruption.)

There is also the hypnotic technique known as "anchoring", in which the would-be hypnotist presents two options to the target ("Do you want to eat at McDonald's or Burger King?") in order to lock him into a false binary choice and most of all, to subtly establish dominance. Abusive spouses alternate tenderness and violence to create a bond of complete hypnotic dependence. Derrida's "deconstruction" technique starts from the idea that all texts are structured around more or less hidden "binary oppositions" that subtly hypnotize the reader into identifying with the point of view of the author, which can also be seen as a form of submission. By finding and exploding these false "anchored" oppositions the reader is released from the tyranny of the author. (My endorsement of the deconstruction technique ends there because ironically, Derrida used this constant undermining of all pretension to objective signification to establish his own guru-like authority over his untethered followers.)

Usselo, moderators, I hope this post does not digress too far from the topic of loyalty loops in the context of IHASFEMR, if so I will move it elsewhere.


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## usselo (Dec 16, 2022)

Frostychud said:


> This makes me think of the hypnosis techniques developed by Milton Erickson:
> 
> _"A famous example of using resistance and a “double bind” occurred when Erickson was a boy. One day Erickson was helping his father coax a stubborn calf into the family barn. Try as they might to pull the calf into the barn, it didn’t budge. He realized that the calf wished to resist, accepted it, and pulled the opposite end on it’s tail – away from the barn. The new input of the boy pulling on the tail negated the father pulling on the head and the calf went into the barn. He used this as a classic psychological example of a double bind – where the subject becomes overwhelmed and is emotionally “pulled” in two conflicting directions. Thus, the confused individual successfully accepts one form of resistance and fails to respond to the other."_


You can speculate that hypnotism makes more subtle use of the same backdoor. That the hypnotist's swinging pendulum is another example of a contrast trigger.


Frostychud said:


> Here are the last two paragraphs of Kafka's "The Trial". For those unfamiliar with the classic novel, it begins with the protagonist, K, being arrested without explanation. We then follow his absurd and confusing journey through the incomprehensible legal machine, which ends with him being executed, having never understood what the charges against him were. Notice again we have two executioners who engage in a hypnotic back-and-forth ritual.


And Kafka's _The Knock at the Manor Gate_. It says more about altars than my copy of _The Laymans Guide to Church Furniture, its Associated Rituals and How to Perform Them_.


Frostychud said:


> There is also the hypnotic technique known as "anchoring", in which the would-be hypnotist presents two options to the target ("Do you want to eat at McDonald's or Burger King?") in order to lock him into a false binary choice


I didn't know it had a name. I've seen my stepbrother's wife do exactly that to him. I was amazed he went along with it because it was obviously manipulative. Perhaps he hadn't realised their marriage had failed. Or perhaps by then he had simply lost the will to resist.


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## TheImp (Dec 16, 2022)

Frostychud said:


> This makes me think of the hypnosis techniques developed by Milton Erickson:
> 
> _"A famous example of using resistance and a “double bind” occurred when Erickson was a boy. One day Erickson was helping his father coax a stubborn calf into the family barn. Try as they might to pull the calf into the barn, it didn’t budge. He realized that the calf wished to resist, accepted it, and pulled the opposite end on it’s tail – away from the barn. The new input of the boy pulling on the tail negated the father pulling on the head and the calf went into the barn. He used this as a classic psychological example of a double bind – where the subject becomes overwhelmed and is emotionally “pulled” in two conflicting directions. Thus, the confused individual successfully accepts one form of resistance and fails to respond to the other."_
> 
> ...


Like I stated in a different thread, I'm more of the mind that humans have an innate need for _veneration_. This might be expressed as loyalty or respect (as lesser forms of worship, though outright fanaticism is becoming more common) and causes issues when different targets of their veneration come into conflict. Of course, since it is intrinsic to humans, it's easily exploited by those who understand the mechanism. We are taught to venerate our "heroes," our (s)elected leaders, specific diversions, and the cultural icons of our day, almost straight out of the womb. Obviously this is an issue, as it requires an expenditure of our personal resources - be they physical, mental, or more metaphysical in nature (such as time or emotional energy), which leaves us vulnerable to more influences and with a decreasing (or outright obviation of) ability to avoid becoming trapped in loyalty loops or binaries.

Also, in order to be hypnotized or mesmerized, one has to allow themselves to be by willingly giving up their focus and attention. Given the amounts of well...everything, blaring at us at all times in all spheres of our lives, our focus and attention cannot hold - unless we keep our eyes on a singular goal or purpose. It's nigh impossible given the state of things. Regardless of one's personal views on religion, one has to respect that The Bible basically hammers that point home all throughout it, albeit to venerate God and stay focused on Him, as doing so prevents one from befalling many issues. But we can even step away from religion, and look at the old adage: "_If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything._" If we venerate everything like we are taught to do, a quality that should be a strength and provide personal conviction is reduced to an exploitable weakness that will eventually result in an internal conflict, leaving us even more at the mercy of those who would exploit us.


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## scofield.htm (Dec 19, 2022)

“…our descendants will experiment and succeed. An impersonal generation will take the place of Nature’s hideous system. In vast state incubators, rows upon rows of gravid (pregnant) bottles will supply the world with the population it requires. The family system will disappear; sapped at its very base, will have to find new foundations; and Eros, beautifully and irresponsibly free, will flit like a gay butterfly from flower to flower through a sunlit world”. Mr Scogan discussing the goddess of Applied Science and how it has the means of dissociating love from propagation, CH 5 of Crome Yellow (1921) by Aldous Huxley.


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## Tureco (Monday at 1:01 AM)

so if "they" have the knowledge to make "intelligent" slaves (how did that work out for them? LOL)
to mine stuff, how come they could not stabilize matter from lets say, plants, to turn into whatever they needed
the highly technological "intelligent" slaves to mine for them?

they can make man and woman, but can't turn coals into diamonds or led into gold?


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## trismegistus (Monday at 2:06 AM)

Tureco said:


> so if "they" have the knowledge to make "intelligent" slaves (how did that work out for them? LOL)
> to mine stuff, how come they could not stabilize matter from lets say, plants, to turn into whatever they needed
> the highly technological "intelligent" slaves to mine for them?
> 
> they can make man and woman, but can't turn coals into diamonds or led into gold?



For what its worth - our civilization can grow human fetuses in cows, and create (though relatively unsuccessfully) human animal hybrids - but so far haven't touched turning lead into gold.  

I get what you are saying, but you are comparing apples and oranges when it comes to scientific endeavors.


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## Tureco (Monday at 2:10 PM)

trismegistus said:


> For what its worth - our civilization can grow human fetuses in cows, and create (though relatively unsuccessfully) human animal hybrids - but so far haven't touched turning lead into gold.
> 
> I get what you are saying, but you are comparing apples and oranges when it comes to scientific endeavors.



hello,

physics and chemistry are like history, if you only go by what the academia accepts, you fail to get the full picture.

we can stabilize matter and turn it into gold, matter from plants for example, don't need led.


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## alltheleaves (Monday at 6:25 PM)

"create (though relatively unsuccessfully)"




trismegistus said:


> For what its worth - our civilization can grow human fetuses in cows, and create (though relatively unsuccessfully) human animal hybrids - but so far haven't touched turning lead into gold.


macroevolution : Eugene M. McCarthy : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Eugene M. McCarthy, discussed previously, argues that humans are natural hybrids of simian and pig.

Chiron (before merging with Bayer) was a major biotech firm with the man/horse hybrid as its logo. 

If their project was successful it is classified.


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## Tureco (Tuesday at 8:21 PM)

alltheleaves said:


> "create (though relatively unsuccessfully)"
> 
> 
> 
> ...



in the rabbinical literature, lots of the men and women associated with the tower of babel were turned into simian and pig.


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