# Ritz Carlton Half Moon Bay California



## Mabzynn (Apr 26, 2021)

So Jon Levi has a new video out where he's discussing _columns that have become exposed with recent erosion_.  He also talks about how the Ritz Carlton has been fined for restricting access to this beach.

_He didn't really show any pictures so here are some:_

​*Thoughts?*


> Note: This OP was recovered from the Sh.org archive.





> Note: Archived Sh.org replies to this OP are included in this thread.


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2020-01-26 16:58:45Reaction Score: 19


This video is so much more, and we need a separate thread on that world council Lady, and her daughter’s California restaurant menu.

*It was done:* _Somerset Belenoff - World Governing Council - Modern Controllers - Jon Levi_
Sometimes I tell my wife when we drive around, that there could be entire cities inside some of the dirt hills we have in the area.

I think this is where history PHDs, in droves, need to start start turning their resignation paperwork in, unless they can explain where these pillars/piles came from. This is not Greece, where they are used to explaining stuff like that. This is California. This could be huge big. Which tribe built all that again?

P.S. _@jd755_ would probably enjoy these pics.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-01-26 17:50:55Reaction Score: 13


Cheeky. They looked like pilings being eroded out by the waves. Reminds me of Scarborough over here where similar catastrophic erosion takes place.

Sure enough we are looking at piles. From here here



And here


_Source__ 
The most intense wave erosion in a beach environment is directed at headlands....the rocky points that stick out into the sea.  In 1972, developers erected this concrete foundation supported by massive pillars on a bluff where the posh Ritz-Carlton hotel in Half Moon Bay was to be built.  The pillars, that can now be seen emerging from the eroding cliffs and the blufftop "rip-rap" (later determined to be illegal) were installed in an effort to prevent such erosion from continuing.

The cutout on the right side of this photograph shows the extent of cliff erosion in just one year (insert dated March, 2016).  A round of late February (2017) storms took out a section of the blufftop near the hotel further exposing and collapsing some older pilings that resemble ancient ruins.  The toppled pilings represent work that had been done on a hotel that was later abandoned for the current structure, which is set further back.  This was one of California's rainiest and snowiest winters on record.  It broke a five-year drought, but also caused flooding and landslides in much of the state and sped up coastal erosion.
_


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: RTP nowDate: 2020-01-26 17:56:11Reaction Score: 7


@KD, completely agree that there’s much more crammed into that 18min JL video than the title suggests. Jon Levi has to be one of the most efficient and effective video posters.. he gets a LOT in und

Wow, I don’t know if it’s my active mind or what, but seems like a LOT has been revealed in such a short time in 2020.
I’m not surprised that Kali would be home to a cannibal restaurant given its high population of homeless people.


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2020-01-26 18:48:10Reaction Score: 9


If this is something we have done in the 20th century, it should not be that hard to dig up a source on who, when and with what equipment. Do we have anything?

Piles are on my local lake Washington. The below image of somewhere also shows some piles.


Those OP trunks embedded in dirt are some MEGA piles if that’s what they are. The things are like 6 foot by 60 foot posts. That’s for the visible portion. Wondering what they are made of.

From this article: Council addresses erosion at Ritz-Carlton

_The toppled pilings and rebar represent work that had been done on a hotel that was later abandoned for the current structure, which is set further back._
The current hotel _was opened in 2001._ What was there before that?

And those little details:

_Maybe this tunnel-like cave was a connection between the sea where the booze was sometimes dropped off and one of the roadhouse restaurants in Moss Beach._
_Half Moon Bay memories_


_The City of Half Moon Bay was incorporated in 1959. It is now a town of approximately 12,500 people._


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: RTP nowDate: 2020-01-26 19:21:40Reaction Score: 8




KorbenDallas said:


> If this is something we have done in the 20th century, it should not be that hard to dig up a source on who, when and with what equipment. Do we have anything?
> 
> Piles are on my local lake here. These are mega piles if that’s what they are. The things are like 6 foot by 60 foot posts. That’s for the visible portion. Wondering what they are made of.
> 
> ...


I’ve been around coastal communities and am familiar with piles and those do not look like typical piles if indeed that’s what they are. It looks to me like the current structure is built on top of an old structure that is now being revealed.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-01-26 19:38:07Reaction Score: 3


It might mention it here Engineers News.
The pdf keeps on locking this little computer up, memory shortage at a guess but here's the excerpt from startpgae result.
_1964; Orr, 1972; Leatherwood et al., 1982; ... Study area maps: San Francisco Bay, California, and harbor porpoise (Phocoena phocoena) sighting area in the ... SF Bay, their abundance between Half Moon Bay ... *Pile driving zone of respo*_


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2020-01-26 19:49:03Reaction Score: 1


Here is a document with an interesting choice of words pertaining to the area. What _overflown_ lands are they talking about?

_Link_


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-01-26 20:03:06Reaction Score: 0




KorbenDallas said:


> Here is a document with an interesting choice of words pertaining to the area. What _overflown_ lands are they talking about?
> 
> _Link_


Cannot read the linked document but no matter as I feel they are referring lands overflown by an aircraft.

*overfly* (ˌəʊvəˈflaɪ) _vb_, *-flies*, *-flying*, *-flew* _or_ *-flown*
(Aeronautics) (_tr_) to fly over (a territory) or past (a point)
Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged, 12th Edition 2014 © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2014

And the pictures are of piles connected together with a ring beam to my eyes as always. They have been inserted from above hence the 'hanging in mid air' aspect made use of in the pictures. Rip-rap on the bluff refers to rock armour usually put at the base of the cliff.bluff in an effort to stop the undercutting of the cliff.


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2020-01-26 20:10:44Reaction Score: 0




jd755 said:


> Cannot read the linked document but no matter as I feel they are referring lands overflown by an aircraft.


Could be but I doubt. That document is from 1858.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-01-26 20:22:22Reaction Score: 3




KorbenDallas said:


> Could be but I doubt. That document is from 1858.


Balloon is the only known thing that it could refer to then, unless hang gliders and powered aircraft are older than we are told. A digression sorry.

Here's a picture whicH to me illustrates the hotel locations problem. It's from a news site detailing a big fine for blocking beach acees which is probably the thing discussed in the op video. Cannot access the article as its paywalled.


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2020-01-26 20:26:46Reaction Score: 1


I’m pretty sure it has nothing to do with no aircraft, based on context alone.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-01-26 20:32:56Reaction Score: 1


From here dated 2005 bigger pucture at the site
The rip-rap and a bit more cliff still extant.


This photo was taken in September 2002, before half the riprap was removed. It shows some of the problems with the seawall at the golf course. There is increased erosion on either side of the seawall. The high tide line comes up to the cliff and the boulders extend into the water, making it difficult and dangerous for the public to cross this part of the beach.

My money is on the sea taking the hotel.


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## Mabzynn (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: MabzynnDate: 2020-01-26 20:35:57Reaction Score: 5


Here's the flickr link to higher res: _Link_


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-01-26 20:37:02Reaction Score: 0




KorbenDallas said:


> I’m pretty sure it has nothing to do with no aircraft, based on context alone.
> 
> View attachment 39398


Thank ee kindly for the page. Section two holds the answer. They are talking about a saltmarsh as far as I can tell. it is land overflowed by the sea.


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2020-01-26 20:55:44Reaction Score: 0


I think if those were salt marshes, they would have called them that. Glad we got the aircraft out of the way though.

Ocean simply overflowing an area is not normal. If it’s a salt marsh, it a salt marsh. To me it suggests that the same area was previously known in its water free state. What happened for it to get overflown?

In general, we need to look for the available related older documents, and images of the area. Like may be the end of the 19th century, beginning of the 20th.

As it stands we have no idea what this posts are, and who installed them. Would be nice to figure out what this prior hotel they are talking about was.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-01-26 21:02:02Reaction Score: 1




KorbenDallas said:


> To me it suggests that the same area was previously known in its water free state.


Fair enough but it must be low lying as they are building a wharf for loading/unloading ships which also suggests a depth of water nearby to take ships of a certain draft. I had a look for images of the wharf or the bay in the late 1800's without success yet.
I'm not au fait with distances in America as this island is tiny by comparison but how far away are the Sutro baths and the 'gold strike' location?


KorbenDallas said:


> The toppled pilings and rebar represent work that had been done on a hotel that was later abandoned for the current structure, which is set further back.


Aren't they referring to the existing hotel which was originally to have been built right on the bluff and they moved its site further inland in a rare show of common sense?


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2020-01-26 21:07:44Reaction Score: 0




jd755 said:


> Aren't they referring to the existing hotel which was originally to have been built right on the bluff and they moved its site further inland in a rare show of common sense?


It’s possible, but considering that this hotel was opened in 2001, these piles would not be old at all, and as such very easy to track down.

Figuring out the material they were made of could probably help.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-01-26 21:17:10Reaction Score: 0




KorbenDallas said:


> It’s possible, but considering that this hotel was opened in 2001, these piles would not be old at all, and as such very easy to track down.
> 
> Figuring out the material they were made of could probably help.


Did the pdf I linked to provide no clues/answers?


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2020-01-26 21:27:25Reaction Score: 1




jd755 said:


> Did the pdf I linked to provide no clues/answers?


Will have to look up when on my computer. They have tons of _normal size piles_ down there.

Not sure if those are arches I’m seeing on my tiny screen in the below image of the Half Moon Bay City.


_Source_


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-01-26 21:39:11Reaction Score: 0




KorbenDallas said:


> They have tons of _normal size piles_ down there.


That's New Zealand's half moon bay.



KorbenDallas said:


> Not sure if those are arches I’m seeing on my tiny screen in the below image of the Half Moon Bay City.


Yep it's a bridge.


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2020-01-26 22:01:16Reaction Score: 3


I like how they worded the description _here_:

_A round of late February storms took out a section of blufftop by the Ritz-Carlton, Half Moon Bay, further exposing and collapsing some older pilings that resemble ancient ruins._
How much older?


jd755 said:


> That's New Zealand's half moon bay.


Yep, messed up on that one. They still have a whole bunch normal piles out there, like any normal bay area does.

I will see what that 16 pager of yours says when have access to a bigger screen.

By the way, check out them commenters in this video’s comments section. I guess it is an older video from April 2019.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: RTP nowDate: 2020-01-26 23:02:09Reaction Score: 1




jd755 said:


> From here dated 2005 bigger pucture at the site
> The rip-rap and a bit more cliff still extant.
> 
> View attachment 39399
> ...


I’ve looked around but haven’t found a better photo that allows for detailed zoom to examine the bottom layer (dark brick) versus the top layer (lighter brick) of the hotel building. It kinda looks like the lighter built on top the darker.

Something is a bit off. Furthermore, why build so close to the cliff if so much work was required? It doesn’t make good engineering sense given there’s a hole near the edge very close to the golf course... after all, the Ritz is a multi-billion dollar hotel chain with the best minds who should know better.


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2020-01-27 00:34:51Reaction Score: 10


_@jd755_, this _PDF_ has piles mentioned 4 times with none of those pertaining to our issue here. This part "_*Pile driving zone of respo*_" is not a part of the PDF I think it bled over into your search results either _from here_, or from something similar.

Well, this is getting utterly ridiculous, for the info on these piles is very hard, if not impossible, to find.

This _article_ is probably the best unconfirmed info out there:

_*Concrete pillars that once supported the foundation of a Half Moon Bay hotel that was never built* *have been removed in light of safety concerns* stemming from rapid bluff erosion in the area. _
_Resembling ancient ruins, *the crumbing structure was constructed on the bluff top in the 1970s*, just west of where the Ritz-Carlton, Half Moon Bay stands today._
_The source article, just like most of the above linked articles are dated with 2017, which is weird. I thought these piles were out there to see today._
_Considering that __this video__ was uploaded in April, 2019, it has to mean that some parts are still visible._

I could not come up with nothing better than dropping a _public disclosure_ request on the Half Moon Bay City Public Records Department.

*Jessica Blair*

_Communications Director/City Clerk
Email: Jessica Blair / Phone: 650-726-8271_
Let us see what they have to say...


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## Verity (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: VerityDate: 2020-01-27 07:35:04Reaction Score: 1




KorbenDallas said:


> It’s possible, but considering that this hotel was opened in 2001, these piles would not be old at all, and as such very easy to track down.
> 
> Figuring out the material they were made of could probably help.


They look like reinforced concrete to me, blown out in some places too. My immediate supposition was whomever built/invested in building on such a site would have taken sea reclamation seriously. I've watched enough episodes of Grand Designs to know that one doesn't build next to an open ocean cliff without investing in the stability of said cliff. Even with such an investment against nature it's borrowed time.

Dad had a beach house in a coastal region of NZ that was completely reclaimed (by the sea)- all the locals lost their baches too, within a ten year period.
For about 50 years there was no problem, then the sea suddenly chomped right into the cliffs. The hideous long-drop dunny (toilet) went first, and after another season Dad abandoned it altogether. Five years later there was nothing left.
As the houses slowly fell in to the sea/rocky beach the council rebuilt the whole coastal road inland instead of trying to negotiate with the water; its collapse was inevitable.
I love the look of this though. It does look like an old Greek temple.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-01-27 10:18:46Reaction Score: 1




KorbenDallas said:


> is part "_*Pile driving zone of respo*_" is not a part of the PDF I think it bled over into your search results either


Possibly will have another try in other search engines.
From here.
how the cliffs disappear over time from the air. Who knew! California Coastal Records Project

October 2019


2002

Then it gets a bit harder to recognise the bluff as the same thing. It looks like it.

1979

This one's captions is _Nearest caption:   Half Moon Bay Dump, Poplar Street, Half Moon Bay_

1972


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2020-01-27 13:51:36Reaction Score: 0


I am not sure what this here gives us. I do not really see the area free of dirt which would suggest that the pillared portion was a later creation.

Will inspect the linked photographs later on on a bigger than my iPhone screen. May be some of the photographs contain the construction process...


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: HulkSmashDate: 2020-01-27 15:12:30Reaction Score: 2


These pillars do not look like they were put to keep back the erosion.  The pillars are way too far apart.  Furthermore, if that's why they were created, and not so long ago supposedly, they did a piss poor engineering job.  The anti-erosion measures lasted a whole 20 years?  Ohhhhhh.  Something isn't right here.  I do find it interesting that once again, a site of interest is covered up by a golf course and a quick neighborhood....nothing to see here...right out of the X-Files movie....


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-01-27 15:23:29Reaction Score: 1




HulkSmash said:


> These pillars do not look like they were put to keep back the erosion.


The erosion protection is either a red herring or true but to my eyes I am looking at eroded out piles and ring beam of the planned but not built hotel. When they went in the bluff was much bigger than it is today if the image archive is any guide.

Interesting that in the 2019 photograph there is clear evidence an attempt to prevent further erosion has been installed.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: StarmonkeyDate: 2020-01-27 15:47:29Reaction Score: 0


When I watched video, it seemed to be at the same height as the lower level of the hotel. But... Who knows?!


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: HulkSmashDate: 2020-01-27 16:23:34Reaction Score: 5


I keep looking at the videos and pics regarding this and find it a very strange way to hold back erosion.  Are there any other areas that show this method of cliff bolstering?  Furthermore, based on the 1972 and 1979 pics, the golf course was not covering, err constructed, on the site yet.  Also, when I think of how they would have constructed the 'erosion pillar framework", it seems very inefficient to me.  The giant piles of chunky rock to the left of the pillars, yes, that seems like erosion proofing, but not the pillars.  Maybe its just me, but the lack of construction photos, the golf course that seemingly weaves in and out of the neighborhood, basically covering up the entire spot.  Something seems fishy to me.  I guess it is possible for the 1970's engineers to have drilled out very deep, wide holes, on the edge of the cliff, to fill with concrete and rebar for the main pillars, and then dig out horizontal trenches between the pillars and lay down, and attach, the horizontal supports to the pillars.  There is one picture that shows one of the main pillars, tipped over, exposing the inside of the column.  It does not appear to show any rebar.  And if rebar wasn't used, I do not see how this could have been built to withstand erosion...  One picture from above shows the shadow of the pillar/support frame, and it appears as if it would be hexagonal.  It means nothing, but could this be an ancient star fort site?  Again, something is fishy here.  *NOTE* - when I was checking out Google earth regarding this site, a general observation popped into my head.  Why is it that the shallows along the coastal areas, all over the globe, seem to be a generic blue/green color, with VERY little detail.  While you go further out, where the supposed continental shelf begins, and all of a sudden we get more detail.  Wonder why that is?  Methinks I know the reason and it screams cover up because we could definitely see patterns and manmade forms.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-01-27 17:05:29Reaction Score: 6


The bluff has a name. Miramontes Point.

And 3 crops from here that speak volumes. LANDSCAPES


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2020-01-27 17:11:10Reaction Score: 1


Well, with such information all this should be easily confirmed by proper permits and other documents when we get a reply to the public disclosure request.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-01-27 17:45:47Reaction Score: 1


A Startpage search for images of Miramontes Point brought up this one of a grounded destroyer in 1921.Looks as though that bluff could be Miramontes Point but the photo just says Half Moon Bay. Wonder when the bluff got its name.


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## SuperTrouper (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: SuperTrouperDate: 2020-01-28 01:17:42Reaction Score: 0


Miramontes = view/sight of mountains. I guess it was a lookout from where you could see mountains.


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## Dielectric (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: DielectricDate: 2020-01-28 02:21:07Reaction Score: 0




jd755 said:


> Balloon is the only known thing that it could refer to then, unless hang gliders and powered aircraft are older than we are told. A digression sorry.
> 
> Here's a picture whicH to me illustrates the hotel locations problem. It's from a news site detailing a big fine for blocking beach acees which is probably the thing discussed in the op video. Cannot access the article as its paywalled.
> 
> View attachment 39397


You forget about Samuel  Cody's War Kites....
It is California after all. Anything is possible.


jd755 said:


> A Startpage search for images of Miramontes Point brought up this one of a grounded destroyer in 1921.Looks as though that bluff could be Miramontes Point but the photo just says Half Moon Bay. Wonder when the bluff got its name.
> View attachment 39467


Isn't this also where something like six destroyers ran aground and was a giant fiasco for the Navy?
This is becoming more interesting by the minute.


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## Trouvare (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: TrouvareDate: 2020-01-28 02:34:58Reaction Score: 1


Sorry this photo was a phone screenshot.

According to this data, looks like it was many, many miles from the beach when it was constructed:


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## Mabzynn (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: MabzynnDate: 2020-01-28 03:30:49Reaction Score: 0


So - you've got an 1853 coastal survey:


SOURCEIt doesn't have much in the sense of Half Moon Bay / Miramontes Point - it looks like it was a spot to look at Black Mountain though, and it had a "contracted anchor."


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: SearchingDate: 2020-01-28 03:37:44Reaction Score: 1


About 350 miles south off the coast in Malibu, there is this:

_Church said. “*My first impression was that it was Greek, it looked artificial and didn’t look natural.*"
The Truth Behind The Malibu Underwater 'Alien Base'_

Of course, pretty much everybody assumes it's an alien base because aliens are really into Greek Revival Architecture.

__
Wonder how much more is covered up along the coast.


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2020-01-28 04:35:56Reaction Score: 2


And there we go into derailing again. San Francisco and Malibu have nothing to do with the issue presented in the OP.

Come on guys, help me out to keep things in order please.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-01-28 09:18:24Reaction Score: 3


Bloody hell!

To get back in the groove.


SuperTrouper said:


> Miramontes = view/sight of mountains. I guess it was a lookout from where you could see mountains.


Thank you. Now the to us here in 2019 utterly absurd location for a hotel on a bluff that is disappearing year on year but if one thinks like a 'hard businessman or someone with more money than sense' where would be the best place to site a hotel to bring in maximum profit.
One the bluff with sea  view rooms, lots of them with views of distant mountains. Kerching!
Is something often overlooked when peering into the past as is the fact people will do literally anything for money so contractors will work on a project they don't believe in IF the money is right.

As a teenager in the seventies I noticed the air of 'we can do anything' pervading the esrly part of it. Technology was fast emerging as the 'answer' and 'the way to the stars'. Cobblers from today's perspective but still it was a real thing here and from my recall of telly box, magazines, comics, papers the same for a lot of the 'developed' world. 
A long winded way to say all sorts of things were attempted and indeed done that didn't fare well as the muchvaunted tech failed. 
Perhaps these pilings are just an example of this that would have remained hidden until the sea deided it needs more room.


Dielectric said:


> Isn't this also where something like six destroyers ran aground and was a giant fiasco for the Navy?


I only included the photo as it looked to me to contain a possible bluff we are looking at at an earlier bigger size. The 6 ship loss was at Honda point.


Mabzynn said:


> It doesn't have much in the sense of Half Moon Bay / Miramontes Point - it looks like it was a spot to look at Black Mountain though, and it had a "contracted anchor."


Again showing the value of the location to a hotel developer.
Anoher thought was perhaps the original hotel idea was a scam used to make oodles of cash and then run. A search of newspaper archives, beyond me, could be of use to determine what was going on.


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2020-01-28 09:31:19Reaction Score: 6


This is California. Half of the state has an ocean view.

Isn’t it weird that for something allegedly built in 1970s there is zip of info to corroborate. Without it we can only speculate.

I’m waiting on the results of my public disclosure request. They have 10 days to comply with the state law. They will answer with something, we will see what it’s gonna be.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-01-28 09:52:40Reaction Score: 2




KorbenDallas said:


> Isn’t it weird that for something allegedly built in 1970s there is zip of info to corroborate.


Not to me. It simply means whatever there is hasn't been digitised so will require feet to taske eyeballs to wherever the archives are San Mateo County Hall or something like that. I often wonder who decides what goes digital and what doesn't and why.


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2020-01-28 10:03:28Reaction Score: 1




jd755 said:


> Not to me. It simply means whatever there is hasn't been digitised so will require feet to taske eyeballs to wherever the archives are San Mateo County Hall or something like that. I often wonder who decides what goes digital and what doesn't and why.


As it stands we have nothing. Everything else is hypocritical. That’s to me.


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## Verity (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: VerityDate: 2020-01-28 12:03:42Reaction Score: 1




HulkSmash said:


> I guess it is possible for the 1970's engineers to have drilled out very deep, wide holes, on the edge of the cliff, to fill with concrete and rebar for the main pillars, and then dig out horizontal trenches between the pillars and lay down, and attach, the horizontal supports to the pillars


Possible? Probable. The top bracing can be seen quite plainly. In one of _@jd755_ 's collection of photos on page 2, one can clearly see the hardened, concreted "fossilised" drill point at the base of the right hand pillar.
There is a great deal of official documentation describing the techniques for structural support/foundations on heavy load zones, this point on the coast being a perfect textbook example of a heavy load zone.

In spite of following the recommended technique for enforcing the zone, nature is still flipping the finger. I suspect they gave up... I find it interesting to see the practical hopes of some developer exposed by natural tides and time but nothing conspiratorial. The hard evidence of modern building  is right there in plain sight.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-01-28 13:44:49Reaction Score: 9




KorbenDallas said:


> As it stands we have nothing. Everything else is hypocritical. That’s to me.


Hardly nothing. The photographs are evidence of the use of steel pipe, weldinhg of steel, concrete all of which tallies with the 1972/3 date.
I fail to see any hypcrisy in any of the evidence from the op to here.
The absence of digitised paper is not indicative of anything. If there is no mention in the paper archive then its a different ballgame.

It is interesting to one born in the paper age, as in before digital, how digital has come to represent 'reality' and paper has been sidelined into obscurity for so many people. An event that has gone exponential with the introduction of the laughigly labelled smartphone.
The world at your fingertips indeed but whose world?

As far as I recall only anotherlayer has actually walked into a building to look at archives on one of the exposition threads so if there is anyone near San Mateo county please when you get a moment toddle along, have a look and report your findings or lack of on here.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: HulkSmashDate: 2020-01-28 13:55:03Reaction Score: 1




Mabzynn said:


> So - you've got an 1853 coastal survey:
> 
> View attachment 39480
> SOURCEIt doesn't have much in the sense of Half Moon Bay / Miramontes Point - it looks like it was a spot to look at Black Mountain though, and it had a "contracted anchor."
> ...


While I am beginning to see these pillars as a modern construction, I do think something is off but I don't know what.  I do find it very curious that _@Mabzynn_  's 1853 Coastal Survey clearly labels this as "Pillar Point".  The 1970's pics that _@jd755_ posted, do not show pillars.  Supposedly these pillars were constructed when they were thinking of putting the resort closer to the bluff?  Wasn't that way later in time?  I must be missing something.


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2020-01-28 13:58:49Reaction Score: 1


In my book it’s fairly simple. In the 1970s it would be impossible to pull this off without a city permit. If they send me something resembling a dated permit, the riddle is probably solved.

If they reply with something where all the permits got destroyed by a fire in a city hall, the riddle is probably not solved.

Here is some _19th century info_ on the Pillar Point. Why would they give this specific area a Pillar Point name, I wonder?

There is also an interesting description of the mountain in there.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-01-28 15:25:10Reaction Score: 2


Pillar point was so named by a Jesuit named Joan Crispi and is on the other side of the bay from Miramontes Point.
I've marked it *PP* on this graphic.

Here's the pillar.
A little about Joan Crespi and Pillar Point.

From here; The March of Portolá and the Discovery Of The Bay Of San Francisco, by       Zoeth S. Eldredge

_In 1585, Captain Francisco de Gali, sailing for the Philippines, was directed to sail, on the return voyage, as far north as the weather would permit, and on reaching the coast of California, examine the land and the harbors on his way homeward, make maps of all, and report all that he accomplished. It does not appear from Gali's report that he accomplished anything in particular. He reached the coast in latitude 37° 30' (Pillar Point), and noted that the land was high and fair; that the mountains1 were without snow, and that there were many indications of rivers, bays, and havens along the coast. 

---------------------------

On the 28th they camped on Pilarcitos creek, site of Spanish town or Half Moon Bay. They named the camp El Llano de los Ansares—The Plain of the Wild Geese—and Crespi called it San Simon y San Judas. Every man in the command was ill; the medicines were nearly gone and the supply of food very short. They contemplated killing some of the mules. That night it rained heavily and Portolá, who was very ill, decided to rest on the 29th. On Monday, October 30th, they moved forward. Half Moon Bay and Pillar Point were noted but no names given._


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2020-02-07 15:13:54Reaction Score: 5


I got a whole bunch of images and documents through the public disclosure. I have not looked through those due to a very poor connection I have here in Mexico. Please help yourself, and post to this thread whatever you find pertinent:

_Request 20-6 - NextRequest - Modern FOIA & Public Records Request Software_


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: BantaDate: 2020-02-07 16:02:36Reaction Score: 1




KorbenDallas said:


> I got a whole bunch of images and documents through the public disclosure. I have not looked through those due to a very poor connection I have here in Mexico. Please help yourself, and post to this thread whatever you find pertinent:
> 
> _Request 20-6 - NextRequest - Modern FOIA & Public Records Request Software_


Holy moly, this is gonna take a minute to get through everything. But at first look, I do not see anything related to the construction of the pillars at all. It all seems to be from starting in 2017, all about the proposed deconstruction. I know you're probably shocked.


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## Mabzynn (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: MabzynnDate: 2020-02-07 16:05:26Reaction Score: 3




KorbenDallas said:


> I got a whole bunch of images and documents through the public disclosure. I have not looked through those due to a very poor connection I have here in Mexico. Please help yourself, and post to this thread whatever you find pertinent:
> 
> _Request 20-6 - NextRequest - Modern FOIA & Public Records Request Software_


So maybe I'm missing something but I don't see anything older than 2017? Seems like she just sent you all the demolition permitting information on removing vertical concrete columns but nothing about the building of the foundational piers or what was done afterwards to "re-stabilize" the property.

_An Emergency Coastal Development Permit for the concrete pier abatement was issued November 6, 2017. This emergency project consists of the demolition and removal of the exposed concrete structures, temporary rerouting the California Coastal Trail around the construction site, as well as refurbishing the existing golf course and paths to their current state. Permit documentation is provided in Attachment 1. The City Council was notified of the emergency permit issuance at the November 7th City Council Meeting. Every effort will be made to keep the Coastal Trail open over the construction phase; however, at times equipment and materials will be transported from Miramontes Point Road to the bluff edge and the trail may need to be temporarily closed to ensure public safety. California Coastal Commission staff were notified upon issuance of this permit on November 6, 2017 pursuant to Municipal Code 18.20.040. California Coastal Commission staff also issued an Emergency Coastal Development Permit the same day, for closure of the beach and for demolition work to take place on the beach itself._


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: BantaDate: 2020-02-07 16:19:31Reaction Score: 7


A few of the pictures are pretty good though to get an idea of what they're made out of.





Basically nothing about construction, aside from the geologist noting that they were "1970s era".

Here's an interesting one. Appears to be down the beach a bit. Is this another column sticking out?




Edit: It is. And I'm foolish. These are after they tore the other columns down. Metadata says December 7th, 2017. First pictures were from May.

Before:


After:


I wonder how many columns they would have found if they kept digging...


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-02-07 19:00:35Reaction Score: 1




Banta said:


> I wonder how many columns they would have found if they kept digging...


Give it a couple of winters and the sea will let you know.
Where would the archived records end up in that part of the world?
Over here it would be in the County archive but have no idea how its done in the United States.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: BantaDate: 2020-02-07 19:06:03Reaction Score: 1




jd755 said:


> Over here it would be in the County archive but have no idea how its done in the United States


It should be about the same, unless you're dealing with a large city. It seems like it should have been available through the resource KD used... of course, as you note, the older records are probably not digitized. 

I hope KD can further inquire about the whereabouts of older records, if only to see what they say.


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2020-02-07 20:18:14Reaction Score: 1


When I get back from Mexico I will verify with the city if they have anything else. At the same time I doubt, for I requested all available information. By law, they are required to provide all public records they have. So naturally I think this is all we are gonna get, but I will verify that this is it.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: hajniDate: 2020-02-09 03:38:28Reaction Score: 6


I don't want to derail the topic here, but I've find these pictures a bit interesting too: of course *experts say* all these are quite natural, _"These are cemented into place by minerals that are resistant to erosion, and appear to be related to a large volcanic explosion that took place about 760,000 years ago. " Mystery Of Crowley Lake Columns Solved - Lake Scientist_

__


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## Kronos (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KronosDate: 2020-02-09 08:32:09Reaction Score: 0


The lack of records is incredibly eerie. This would be no small undertaking to essentially reinforce a coast line. I don’t need official documents to tell me what my stomach already knows. There is a story I read a while back about someone traveling via submarine deep into caverns under/inside California entering off of the coastal area.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-02-09 10:36:47Reaction Score: 5


These experts must be incapable of using their senses, either lack or don't use common sense or are after better funding as saying "we don't have a clue quite honestly" is beyond them.
Check out the weasel wordage in that article, tastefully highlighted in red.

-----------------------------------
After California’s Crowley Lake reservoir was completed in 1941, strange column-like formations were spotted on the water body’s eastern shore. The rising gray and stony cylinders have cracks ringing around them at intervals of about 1 foot and have inspired comparisons to Moorish temples.

With those sort of descriptions out there, it’s not surprising that theories on the origins of the columns have been similarly wide-ranging. Some believed they were just portions of rock that, as luck would have it, were eroded away to form the perfect, rising spirals and arches. Others believed the columns had a connection to the area’s volcanic past.

To get at these questions, geologists at the University of California, Berkeley, set out to investigate. Using a slew of different methods and equipment, including X-ray analysis and electronic microscopes, applied to samples of the columns, the researchers have found there are tiny spaces throughout them.

These are cemented into place by minerals that are resistant to erosion, and appear to be related to a large volcanic explosion that took place about 760,000 years ago. Scientists say that the blast was more than 2,000 times larger than that of the eruption of Mount Saint Helens, and created the Long Valley Caldera that holds the Crowley reservoir today.

In describing the formation of the columns, researchers believe that falling snow melted on top of the tuff rock deposits left after the eruption. This still-heated porous material caused the melted snow to boil, which created the even spaces between the columns that exist today.

Estimates hold that there are up to 5,000 of the columns within a 2- to 3-square-mile area to the east of Crowley Lake. They appear in clusters of varying shapes and sizes. Some are gray and as straight as poles, while others are reddish-orange and bent or tilting. There are also still-buried columns that would look like fossils to an untrained eye.

Odd then that these experts who made all this shit up by using high tech equipment to look at 'samples' of the rock in 'the lab' deem themselves to have trained eyes when they couldn't just mosey on down there, along with their eyes, sit and look, get up close and touch the rocks to deduce how they were formed and by what but best of all when. Does all rock have the date it is formed running through it like blackpool rock has the word Blacpkool running through it but only visible to 'trained eyes'?


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: RecognitionDate: 2020-02-12 12:27:32Reaction Score: 0


Maybe we should start a different thread on this lake, see when it starts appearing on maps. Wikipedia goes even further: Samples of the resulting "evenly spaced convection cells *similar to heat pipes*" (a quote from a study at UC Berkeley) were analyzed using X-rays and electronic microscopes; and researchers found that minute crevices in these "*convection pipes*" were literally bonded into place by minerals that were able to resist the corrosive force of the lake's waves. Researchers have now counted nearly 5,000 of these pillars, which appear in groups and vary widely in shape, size and color over an area of 4000 acres, with some of the columns standing as erect as towering pylons and sporting ringed apertures approximately a foot apart; others which are warped or leaning at various angles; and still others that are half-submerged and, some say, resemble the petrified remains of *dinosaur vertebrae*.


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2020-02-16 00:24:27Reaction Score: 2


Well, it looks like the city has no related 1970s docs in its possession. It's either that, or they are unwilling to release those. The latter is highly unlikely on the state level. 

Considering that _Seattle was able to give me_ some documents _(though just as worthless)_ from 1908-09, this is bizarre...


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-02-16 11:53:25Reaction Score: 0


Over here the documents sent in to get planning permission from the planning authority remain with the authority for a period of time and are then archived in a county level archive office.
They are only copies as the originals aren't sent to the authority they remain with whover submits the planning application. So there are at least two sets of them kickig around at the start.
A friend of mine who is an archivist and her boss at the time told me the plans I wanted to see for a house my great,great,great grandfather built in 1910-11 were still in the local authority office and had not been passed to them. It was not unusual for the office to hang on it seems. That was in the early nineties. 
They also recieved planning documents from solicitors and lawyers when they closed down, merged went out of business or simply had a clear out. They got other planning related information from estate agents when they closed down, cleared out or merged.

A long way of asking is there anything ay the San Mateo County level where one could walk in off of the street and inquire?


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2020-02-16 17:14:11Reaction Score: 1


It's different in the US. City, County or State publicly authorized projects are fully disclosable regardless of their age. There had to be permits issued. 

It is easily seen with other less controversial objects. They will gladly give you anything all they have. It's also a law to fully disclose, and when they do not they pay hefty fines to the requester.

I sent a follow up e-mail to the city asking about the 1970s docs. We'll see what they have to say.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-02-16 18:25:45Reaction Score: 0




KorbenDallas said:


> It's also a law to fully disclose, and when they do not they pay hefty fines to the requester.


Are they also forced to reveal all to the requestor or does the payment put an end to the matter?


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2020-02-16 18:33:41Reaction Score: 0




jd755 said:


> Are they also forced to reveal all to the requestor or does the payment put an end to the matter?


They will let you know if they need any payment. Normally if you want paper copies they will charge you. PDF and electronic is free. 

You can give it a try yourself if you wish. No need to be a US citizen to request. The links _are here_.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-02-16 18:46:27Reaction Score: 0




KorbenDallas said:


> They will let you know if they need any payment. Normally if you want paper copies they will charge you. PDF and electronic is free.
> 
> You can give it a try yourself if you wish. No need to be a US citizen to request. The links _are here_.


No I meant the payment of the fine. Does that payment forced by the lack of full disclosure get accompanied by full disclosure or does the fine payment stop the process.


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2020-02-16 18:52:34Reaction Score: 1


I think _this link_ will provide you with the information you are looking for, but in general it sounds like this:

_The court also held the city’s search was inadequate. West requested, “Any records concerning any agreements, policies, procedures, or understandings related to the acquisition, use or operation of stingray technology.” The city didn’t conduct an email search because it interpreted the request as seeking documents specifically related to the acquisition, use and operation of the technology, which it provided. The court found this search inadequate as the city had email communications about the technology, including responses to a reporter’s questions about the technology and what the nondisclosure agreement allowed to be released. The court deemed these email communications responsive to West’s request. _
Those fines can be rather expensive for the municipalities or any publicly funded organizations:

_Court tags Tacoma police with $1.77 million in penalties for withholding public records._
In other words, if the organization is funded by public taxes, on the state or below level, they have to disclose everything they have upon request, and within a specific time frame.

On the Federal Level our fine _Freedom of Information Act_ kicks in, but it is much harder with the Feds.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-02-16 19:20:55Reaction Score: 1


Thanks for the link. It's as clear as mud as to what the effect of the fine is on the disclosure compliance.

This document (page 6) suggests that the records are long gone.

_California Records Management_
According to Government Code, Section 14740, California’s Records Management Program is designed to “...apply efficient and economical management methods to the creation, utilization, maintenance, retention, preservation, and disposal of state records”.  Effective Records Management ensures that records are kept only as long as they have some administrative, fiscal, or legal value.   *When records no longer fulfill the value for which they were created, they should be destroyed unless they also have some historic or research significance.  If that is the case the records should be preserved by an appropriate historical agency.  Staff members should realize that an effective records management program is not only cost effective, it will also make their jobs easier.  They should also know that records retained beyond their value “just in case” only extend the agency’s legal liability in the event of adverse litigation. *These principles apply to all levels of government.

And this from page 10

*Once records have fulfilled their administrative, fiscal, or legal function they should be disposed of as soon as possible in accordance with their Records Retention Schedule. * A properly completed schedule provides an agency with the legal authority to dispose of records entrusted to its care.

Perhaps a Spanish land grant for the area in question may be extant. From page 5.

Permanent Records – Records that are required in perpetuity, usually identified by statute or other written guidance.  Examples include original birth certificates, death certificates, *Spanish land grants,* etc.


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2020-02-16 19:37:58Reaction Score: 0


I doubt that the only records pertaining to the construction of this structure, i.e. pillar locations, materials used, permits and what not, would have gotten destroyed. 

You could request a public disclosure on the 1933-1937 available Golden Gate Bridge records from the City of SF to emphasize the point of construction records not getting destroyed after mere 50 years. I bet they will send you a whole bunch.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-02-16 19:47:39Reaction Score: 0




KorbenDallas said:


> You could request a public disclosure on the 1933-1937 available Golden Gate Bridge records from the City of SF to emphasize the point of construction records not getting destroyed after mere 50 years. I bet they will send you a whole bunch.


I'm sure they would, having read more of that pdf. The bridge is of 'historical significance' (whatever and however that is decided) a hotel on the coast not so much.


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2020-02-16 19:54:01Reaction Score: 0


These pillars will fall under CA_ Safety Code Section 19850_.

_The building department of every city or county shall maintain an official copy, which may be on microfilm or other type of photographic copy, of the plans of every building, during the life of the building, for which the department issued a building permit. _
As it stands, we do not know who built these pillars, or when.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: BantaDate: 2020-02-17 03:18:23Reaction Score: 0




KorbenDallas said:


> As it stands, we do not know who


Or how many there are, buried further back. 

It would be interesting to know what the surveyor really thought about the structural integrity of the hillside prior to the removal of the more overt columns. To me, it seems unsafe that there are additional pillars still remaining on the edge... if there are ones further back, then it seems like the entire hillside is sitting on unsafe ground. Would it never occur to someone to use ground penetrating radar or something similar? Is it because it's privately owned and they're trying to keep it on the cheap? Seems like a public safety issue even... maybe there's more in the documents they sent, but I spent a bit of time looking through them and it is basically taken as a foregone conclusion that this was the remnants of a 70s dock project. I wonder who even floated that explanation in the first place... again, wouldn't you think that the surveyor might have wanted the original building permits/construction details for their own sake, to get the scope of what they're dealing with?


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2020-02-17 04:00:29Reaction Score: 1


Just reading some of the docs _(like this one from their geological engineer)_ in the disclosure, kinda gives out the vibe that they have no pillar location documents to rely on, on go by what they can actually see. Doing 3D scanning of the area to map stuff, when everything had to be mapped in the 1970s. Normally the demolition crew would rely on the available documentation. Where are the docs? It's not like 1970 was in 1850.


_Entire Letter__This doc here_ implies some hypothetical knowledge, I guess. It tells us that it is a "larger subterranean foundation."


And finally it would be nice to find out _what concrete substructures_ they removed in 2006.

I think I went through all of the docs in the disclosure. Did not see anything originated in the 1970s. Asked the city a few questions. Let's see what the reply is going to be.

__


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: Red BirdDate: 2020-02-17 04:20:13Reaction Score: 0


This reminds me in the 1990’s we were interested in a place in Pony, Mt.  We went to the county seat in Virginia City, Mt to look up the platte. Found it and thought, what are all theses little squares? The platte they had still showed the gold mining tent city. True story. 
nothing to do with this, but there are strange things With properties.


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2020-02-18 18:59:45Reaction Score: 2


Well, I made an additional request for information. Hopefully it will help out figuring this stuff out a bit. Will update you when they reply.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-02-18 20:09:52Reaction Score: 1


I'm taking a different tack and am searching through old directories and newspapers etc, at least those digitally available, the wormhole service is still down!
This map is from 1929 with what could be our headland but named San Mateo Point. Question to those in America is it the same headland?


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2020-02-18 20:27:51Reaction Score: 2


Well, looks like we have our reply to the _request #20-8. Links from the below reply:_

_Local Coastal Program & Land Use Plan | Half Moon Bay, CA_
_Contact Kenmark Construction_
___This __Kenmark Construction Corporation__ is not gonna help us out much because it was established in 1994._

At this point it looks like all official channels were exhausted.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: RonanDate: 2020-02-18 20:56:04Reaction Score: 0


So officially it was done by a company that didn't yet exist?


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## KD Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: KorbenDallasDate: 2020-02-18 21:18:28Reaction Score: 0




Ronan said:


> So officially it was done by a company that didn't yet exist?


It does sound that way, but I will allow myself to think that Jonathan meant the original builders of the current hotel.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: jd755Date: 2020-02-18 21:45:02Reaction Score: 0


Going down the golf course route as golfers are fanatical aboutt there game and there may be photo's kicking about.
First there are two courses at the Ritz Carlton site.
The newest one is the Ocean course opened in 1997, this is the one Kenmark were involved with, probably as prime contractor, too lazy to look any deeper as its outside the time frame.
The earlier course is known now as the Old Course and it goes inland from the bluff laid out to an Arnold Palmer design it opened in 1973 bang on the date given for the pilings. Not that in itself helps much but ever onward.
From here Golf Vacations & Golf Packages with Golfbreaks.com

The Old Course was originally designed by Arnold Palmer in 1973 and is more in-land in comparison to the Ocean course, winding its way through residential properties. The front 9 has many pine trees, good bunkering and undulating fairways.

Also discovered Half Moon bay suffered a tsunami in 1946.
Also from here Old Course at Half Moon Bay boasts strong routing, spectacular finish | California Golf

HALF MOON BAY, Calif. -- *Arnold Palmer was just beginning his course-design career when he and Francis Duane teamed up to build the Old Course at Half Moon Bay Golf Links in 1973. *The 7,001-yard course, located 30 miles south of San Francisco, was only his second project. Its strong routing and spectacular finish was a harbinger of what was to come from the King as an architect. 

Palmer's design firm has built more than 200 courses around the world. Only a handful are as good as Half Moon Bay.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: RecognitionDate: 2020-02-18 22:29:23Reaction Score: 1




KorbenDallas said:


> Well, I made an additional request for information. Hopefully it will help out figuring this stuff out a bit. Will update you when they reply.
> 
> View attachment 40690


KD you are so badass! I love it! Signed with a stolen history gmail, no less!


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: blake vittorDate: 2020-02-28 18:33:39Reaction Score: 1


*Any updates on this guys? *

I don't believe these are recent, even with the rebar and metal connectors on the pillars. You can tell they are roman styled pillars, i can't imagine engineers pouring concrete down holes and having it turn out that way. And to go through all that for a tiny private golf course? ridiculous. Perhaps we should see if this supposed reinforcement technique has ever been used any where else. I doubt it has


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: StarmonkeyDate: 2020-02-28 19:38:03Reaction Score: 0


Hell no it hasn't! There's no lasting stability in it. Being ocean front, facing prevailing winds and weather. If anything, you'd just use big rocks and boulders, maybe a wall. Like their attempts at slowing erosion just to the north of it, and now probably along its entirety.


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## Archive (Apr 26, 2021)

> Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.Username: BantaDate: 2020-03-02 02:46:11Reaction Score: 1


Recent drone footage of the area:


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