# Joseph Justus Scaliger according to Jacob Duellman



## Silveryou (Dec 17, 2020)

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEt6C3vjrow_

The intent of these series is to expose a sort of "chronology of trolls/propaganda" from Joseph Justus Scaliger to Edward Louis Bernays.

Many of the connections are detailed here (TheBrain).

Jacob Bernays, grandfather of Edward Louis Bernays, "father of propaganda", wrote Joseph Justus Scaliger's ("father of chronology") biography, printed in Berlin in 1855. Not much information on Scaliger is available before this biography.

In the "Dictionnaire historique et critique" of Pierre Bayle, a biographical dictionary published in 1697, Scaliger was not included.
Thomas Birch and John Peter Bernard introduced Scaliger in his edition, the "General Dictionary, Historical and Critical" published from 1734 to 1741 in London in 10 volumes. They both became fellows of the Royal Society thanks to their contributions on this books.
Volume 9 of this edition is the only one (at the time of this interview) not available online, and it contains informations on the Scaliger family.

Julius Caesar "Scaliger" Bordone, father of Joseph Justus Scaliger, was said to be descended from the ancient princes of Verona, but in reality was the son of Benedetto Bordone, a Paduan schoolmaster who took the name of Scaliger. Julius Caesar Scaliger claimed his origins were confirmed by the historian Paulus Aemilius Veronensis, who found documents related to his family in Bavaria.
Caspar Schoppe denounced the "findings" of Paulus Aemilius Veronensis as an imposture, and claimed that Paulus Aemilius Veronensis had never existed.

From Fomenko's "History: Fiction or Science?": "The Bible lists a great many geographical locations that the People of Israel visited during their 40 years of wandering after the Exodus from “Egypt.” The archaeologists still fail to find these locations where the Scaligerian history places their Biblical descriptions. Wright says that “few sites on the way to Mount Sinai can be identified with any degree of certainty” (quoted in [444], page 128). V. Stade wrote that: “checking the itinerary of Israel has as much sense as, say, tracking the way of the Burgundians’ return from King Etzel as described in the Nibelungenlied.” The Egyptologist W. Spielberg quotes this statement, saying that “we can still sign under every word of Stade’s” and that “the depiction of events following the Exodus, the listing of the sites where stops were made, the crossing of the desert – all of this is fiction” (quoted in [444], page 132). Many sites that were considered to have been on the itinerary of the Israelis have been excavated thoroughly and intensively for a long time now. No traces have ever been found! The Biblical account of the destruction of Jericho is well known. One of the Arabic settlements in the Middle East had been arbitrarily identified with the Biblican Jericho whose walls were destroyed by the sounds of the horn. The settlement has been subject to thorough excavations since the endeavours of Sellin, Watzinger, and Garstang in late XIX century. There were no results obtained."

John Garstang was the founder of the British School of Archaeology in Jerusalem, now known as the Kenyon Institute, with Israel Gollancz, nephew of Victor Gollancz, printer for the Fabian Society, Aldous Huxley and the MKULTRA project.
History has been set and solidified during the British Empire rule back in the 1870s, from where these societies had sprung from. There is an interest to set the stage for a biblical history built upon Scaliger's "work". Frederic George Kenyon was president of the British academy, just as Arthur James Balfour, responsible for the Balfour Declaration.

About biblical archeology, William Matthew Flinders Petrie, founder of the British School of Archaeology in Egypt in 1905, translated the Famine Stela, which supposedly states the first mention of Israel, but his translation is highly questionable.
William Matthew Flinders Petrie was the teacher of Margaret Alice Murray and Gerald Lankester Harding. Harding worked in the team guided by Roland Guérin de Vaux for the recovery of the fraudolent Dead Sea Scrolls, which are the basis for the localization of biblical Israel in Palestine.

Finally some funny anecdotes of Scaliger's life which show how this character was.


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## Silveryou (Dec 19, 2020)

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYQpozU2Dsg&t=2s_


In the first part is showed how Scaliger's version of history was not welcomed by many scholars in that time and how the prevailing of this version was due to reasons that had nothing to do with an authentic scientific research.

Many of the connections are detailed here (TheBrain).

It is discussed how the most old historical dictionaries contained plenty of footnotes with alternative views on the subjects. These footnotes were gradually reduced with every new dictionary published, until no footnotes remained and in this fallacious way they came up with an history without contradictions.

Then a more in depth analysis of Scaliger's family tree and arguments with many examples, such as his faulty translations in which he took too many liberties, consequently corrupting the texts. Apparently the reason why they posed as nobles was due to poverty... with an important name (of a family gone extinct at that time) they were able to achieve positions otherwise unobtainable.

In the light of what has been said and contempling the possibility of a revised chronology as suggested by Fomenko, then the "Dionysian imitatio", the rhetorical practice of emulating, adapting, reworking, and enriching a source text by an earlier author formulated by Greek author Dionysius of Halicarnassus, assumes a totally new meaning, also considering the fact that the most important student of Scaliger was Dionysius Petavius. Julius Scaliger wrote a lot about Aristotle (even about his love poems, considered fakes), which was the one introducing the concept of imitation, but not to apply to human activities, totally the opposite of the supposedly ancient Dionysius of Halicarnassus.


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## Silveryou (Dec 22, 2020)

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSk6eacelnk&t=38s_

A very detailed episode with lots of connections.

In the first part a description of the "Scaliger collection" published in 1993 with a preface by Alistair Hamilton, son of Hamish Hamilton, founder of the Hamish Hamilton Limited, now part of the Penguin Random House group, deeply involved with the Fabian Society, responsible for mass control and observation and moral decadence. Jacob Duellman goes deep into the subject of these secret societies and concept of kabbalistic "inversion".

Many of the connections are detailed here (TheBrain).

Alistair Hamilton became Dr C. Louise Thijssen-Schoute Professor of the History of Ideas at the University of Leiden in Holland in 1985, where Scaliger was professor. In 2004 he was appointed the Arcadian Visiting Research Professor at the School of Advanced Study, London University, attached to the Warburg Institute.

They touch the subject of elitism in universities and the cloth-code, Thomas Wolfe and his connction with CIA. Harvard social relations department as a sort of "second CIA". The corruption of Yale and Harvard and the formation of secret agents.

The "beehive symbolism" depicted on the coat of arms of the Gollancz Family on the cover of "Personalia Relating to Rabbi Sir Hermann Gollancz". Victor Gollancz was nephew of Hermann Gollancz. Israel Gollancz was nephew of Victor Gollancz and founder of the British Academy and the British School of Archeology in Jerusalem. Beehive in freemasonry symbolizes the mass labour of men and mastery over workmen. "The bee was among the Egyptians the symbol of an obedient people".

Encyclopaedia Judaica, second edition: "antisemitic forgery aimed at showing the existence of international Jewish aspirations bent on world power. The specter of a worldwide Jewish conspiracy aiming at reducing the gentiles to slavery or exterminating them loomed up in the Christian imagination during the Middle Ages, growing out of legends about well-poisoning and plague-spreading. Some such stories claimed that a secret rabbinical conference had been held to work out a detailed plan for ritual genocide of the Christians. From the time of the Renaissance, at first in Spain, these legends turned on a political plot rather than a religious one; similar notions circulated in France and Germany, after Napoleon's convocation of the Great Sanhedrin (see French Sanhedrin) in 1807. They did not gain widespread popular credence, nor at first did the versions launched during the second half of the century by French Catholic authors like Barruel and Bailly, who associated Freemasons and Jews in an anti-Christian plot. In its latest version, the legend of the "Elders of Zion" was concocted in Paris in the last decade of the 19th century by an unknown author working for the Russian secret police (_Okhrana_); in all probability, it was intended to influence the policy of Czar Nicholas II toward the interests of the secret police." _An unknown author working for the Russian secret police... _a known unknown for Duellman, and a recurring scapegoat to disprove some real occurring issues!!! Obviously we can see how Zionism has been the ideological driving force behind all modern events... the _Russian spy _was correct and Czar Nicholas II succumbed to the zionist plot.

A description of how intel-cells work: the constant circle of citations by these agents to prop each other up. They cite each other works to create a false well-supported paradigm built upon their zionist academic works.

The parallel between the worker bees killing the useless drone bees with the freemasons' plan and intent to kill the useless (for them) members of society, as reported by Carl H. Claudy in The Master's Book, published in 1946 by The Temple Publishers.

Israel Gollancz was the editor of the "Temple Shakespeare", with J. M. Dent as publisher. Duellman talks about the connection between Israel Gollancz, Joseph Rudyard Kipling, Christopher Edward Nolan, Frank Podmore and Humphry Fortescue Osmond (MK-ULTRA and Aldous Huxley's personal doctor).

Link between Dionysus, Freemasonry and beehives. Concepts carried on by the Gollancz Family.
Overview of some publising circles and their relations.

Christian Matthias Theodor Mommsen, author of "A History of Rome", was friend of Jacob Bernays. An "incident" occured to him. At 2 a.m. on 7 July 1880 a fire occurred in the upper floor workroom-library of Mommsen's house at Marchstraße 6 in Berlin. After being burned while attempting to remove valuable papers, he was restrained from returning to the blazing house. Several old manuscripts were burnt to ashes, including _Manuscript 0.4.36_, which was on loan from the library of Trinity College, Cambridge. There is information that the important Manuscript of Jordanes from Heidelberg University library was burnt. Two other important manuscripts, from Brussels and Halle, were also destroyed.
Mommsen published over 1,500 works, and effectively established a new framework for the systematic study of Roman history. He was influent on Bernard Shaw (Fabian Society) and Mark Twain (a freemason) described his encounter with him in ecstatic terms. He talked of Mommsen as an "Emersonian". Ralph Waldo Emerson gave a series of lectures on the philosophy of history at the Masonic Temple in Boston. This was the first time he managed a lecture series on his own, and it was the beginning of his career as a lecturer.

Anthony Thomas Grafton, one of the contributors to the "Scaliger collection", studied at University College of London and retains links with the University of London's Warburg Institute. Israel Gollancz was also a student at the University College. The Warburg Institute is connected to the Warburg banking dinasty. The Rothschild Family was in contact with Hermann and Israel Gollancz.
Anthony Thomas Grafton is noted for his studies of the classical tradition from the Renaissance to the eighteenth century, and in the history of historical scholarship. The _history of historical scholarship_, Duellman argues, is "another palimpsest, another layer to cover things up".
His many books include a study of the scholarship and chronology of Renaissance scholar Joseph Scaliger. Duellman laughs at the fact that this overly-precious books on Scaliger cost none other than 400$, a good way to give credence to some garbage. But also a way to keep ordinary people away from some anachronistic and contradicting information that goes against established history.
His most original and accessible book is "The Footnote: A Curious History_"_, a case study of how the marginal footnote developed as a central and powerful tool in the hands of historians. Funny thing, Dullman has noted, is that on the the "Scaliger collection: A Collection of Over 200 Antiquarian Books by and about Josephus Justus Scaliger, with Full Descriptions, with a Checklist of All Known Scaliger Publications, with a Checklist of the Scaliger Annotati, with a Full Index to Bernays' Scaliger Biography (1855)", which Grafton contributed to, nothing is said about the voluminous Encyclpaedia "General Dictionary, Historical and Critical", which is the first essay with informations about Scaliger _mainly in the form of footnotes!!!_

The Warburg Institute was formed in Hamburg, Germany, from the library of Aby Warburg, a student of Renaissance art and culture, and a scion of the wealthy Jewish Warburg family. As an art historian, Warburg had become dissatisfied with an aestheticising approach to art history and was interested in a more philosophical and interdisciplinary approach. While studying the culture of Renaissance Florence, he grew interested in the influence of antiquity on modern culture (faking of history), and the study of this second life of the Classical World became his life work.

_In 1933, under the "shadow" of Nazism, the institute was relocated to London._

Arnaldo Dante Momigliano, teacher of Anthony Thomas Grafton and honorary Knight Commander of the Order of the British Empire (KBE), was an Italian Jewish historian known for his work in historiography, characterised by Donald Kagan as "the world's leading student of the writing of history in the ancient world". Donald Kagan is the Jewish patriarch of the Kagan Family, father of Robert Kagan and Frederick Kagan, and all founders of the neoconservative "Project for the New American Century". Robert Kagan's wife is Victoria Jane Nuland.
Arnaldo Dante Momigliano also took an interest in modern historians, such as Edward Gibbon, a freemason member of the Royal Society and author of "_The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire"._

The home of the Scaliger Family papers is nowadays the American Philosophical Society, founded by Benjamin Franklin, Hellfire Club member and fellow of the Royal Society. Thomas Birch, author of the previously mentioned "General Dictionary, Historical and Critical" (containing the first mentions about Scaliger) and fellow of the Royal Society, was the copyist for Benjamin Franklin during his visit to England.
Ian Irvin goes on telling about the dark past of Benjamin Franklin, a probable pedophile and murderer (14 bodies were found in his basement).
The American Philosophical Society (Charles Darwin and Margaret Mead were members) was a subcontractor for the MKULTRA Subproject 58. It is from this institution that Vernon Hall Jr. writes "The Life of Julius Caesar Scaliger" (1484-1558).


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## Otherlane (Dec 23, 2020)

Excellent post. I was unaware Bernays wrote Scaligers biography. How funny and convenient. Great mention about the ancient art of the footnote as well which transformed from historians being allowed to insert information contradictory to the original theory or entry and into nothing more than corroborating source citation for the narrative


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## Sasyexa (Feb 20, 2021)

I probably shouldn't, but I'll share this quote found here https://stolenhistory.net/threads/ww2-what-was-the-enemy.2136/#post-10750
Just as a flavoring to this post

"Backstory: I love Browning's poems, and years ago, I wanted to understand one called Porphyria's Lover. I looked into it, and found the disease in the poem, porphyria, or the Royal Disease, has a huge incidence among Ashkenazi Jews, as do a _huge_ number of other genetic disorders. The historic cure for porphyria was drinking blood. From there, I found this disease called Tay-Sachs which only affects them, and there is no cure, but thought nothing of it.

Years after finding that, I read a novel that had a character with Tay-Sachs, who was taken from her family to be with people who cured her with blood, and it was written in a way that I have come to associate with hidden meaning - not to mention the link between porphyria, blood drinking, and Tay-Sachs - so I looked in earnest in to Tay-Sachs, and it turns out that there _is_ a cure, only to be found in Israel, and the kids who are diagnosed with the disease are taken from their families to Israel to get treatment. It's hard as hell to find what that treatment is, but.... It's blood, and marrow. It has been cured with a transfusion of pure umbilical blood, a full replacement of all blood within the child, though historically, it was done through, again, _bibens sanguinum_ (which is the Hebrew translation of the word "Damascus", because it was where Cain slayed Abel), or literally, drinking blood, done every so often. This has been a theme since Canaanites came into existence.

Ok so, yeah, I'm a crazy person, right? I have to be making this up, and no one else in history might have stumbled upon this imagined trail of bread crumbs. Turns out that the time in which Jews migrated to Europe, there also happened to arise the mythos of vampirism. You can escape a vampire if you drop a coin on the ground. Bram Stoker's Dracula was a Jew. Elizabeth Bathory was a Jew. Motzah balls, traditional ones served at passover, call for the blood of gentile children, and it is a well-kept secret that this practice continues in some circles today. Hemophilia (love of blood) is a typically Ashkenazi disease (Factor XI deficiency).

I should say that I don't think all Ashkenazi are literally vampires, but that the _myth_ of vampirism arose from them. Speaking of, look at Marina Abramovic, the Spirit Cooking lady. She's fucking _70_. She is quite obviously a Jew, but her wikipedia page has been scrubbed of any mention of her heritage, though it still lists it in search engines

From there, I found out about "blood libel" and that Ashkenazi Jews have been responsible for the Jews expulsion from 350+nations over the past few hundred years. 100+ of those were for blood rituals involving the murder of gentile male Christian children under the age of 7 (NSFL)................................. Here's a _very_ suppressed book, written by a Rabbi, chronicling the history of Jewish blood ritual.

If the Ashkenazi don't interbreed with the races around them, their DNA breaks down within 3 generations, as if there were no "glue" to hold them together, but also, it seems to me, in a symbolic sense, that there _is no growth, no evolution_, no *negentropy*. It seems they are always dying, never growing.

The kicker is that these Jews, the evil ones who engage in this practice, are not even Jews, and it has been proven. You won't find anything but the typical apologetics that occur when an individual or group accidentally expose them, but the popular genetics website 23andme concluded the link between the Ashkenazi and the Khazars, who are Caucasian Babylonian Talmudic practitioners who infiltrated and took over Judaism. This renders their claim to Israel moot, and proves that the Jews who appear white are Jews in name only. Those same Jews are the ones who infiltrate positions of power in order to pervert them. "

To stay on topic though, this 
_View: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJk0yT4erxuRcCMBujshjWZ-KNAHAWCx6_
 is one of the classics, where Fomenko's works were summarised and Scaliger's name thoroughly cursed)


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## Silveryou (Feb 23, 2021)

Sasyexa said:


> I probably shouldn't, but I'll share this quote found here https://stolenhistory.net/threads/ww2-what-was-the-enemy.2136/#post-10750
> Just as a flavoring to this post
> 
> "Backstory: I love Browning's poems, and years ago, I wanted to understand one called Porphyria's Lover. I looked into it, and found the disease in the poem, porphyria, or the Royal Disease, has a huge incidence among Ashkenazi Jews, as do a _huge_ number of other genetic disorders. The historic cure for porphyria was drinking blood. From there, I found this disease called Tay-Sachs which only affects them, and there is no cure, but thought nothing of it.
> ...



Did you read this one?
British royalty dined on human flesh (but don't worry it was 300 years ago)


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## Sasyexa (Feb 23, 2021)

Silveryou said:


> Sasyexa said:
> 
> 
> > I probably shouldn't, but I'll share this quote found here https://stolenhistory.net/threads/ww2-what-was-the-enemy.2136/#post-10750
> ...



And suddenly I'm crazy when I tell that we're being manipulated by shape-shifting-man-eating reptilians)


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## Silveryou (Feb 23, 2021)

Zecharia "Nazi Reptilian Annunaki" Sitchin in the Vatican...


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## Safranek (Feb 24, 2021)

Sasyexa said:


> Elizabeth Bathory was a Jew.



I just want to correct that statement. Elizabeth Bathory was NOT a jew. I almost made a thread on this topic (Elizabeth Bathory) when I discovered it upon doing some research but didn't have time for it and other subjects became more relevant.

What prompted me to look into this was the fact that I was aware that the Habsburgs controlled the country at the time and to my knowledge, the Bathory family were fighting to get Hungary back under Magyar control and leadership.

In a nutshell, the Bathory family were a Székely (Saka, Siculi) family from the local royal bloodlines. Hungary was already under almost TOTAL Habsburg (Fugger) control by that time and the wealthy Bathory family stood in their way of clinching that control. They had to think of a way to eliminate their key opposition  and this was done by creating a 'legal' court case with the accusations now known as 'history'. It was further followed up with the usual divide and conquer tactics.

When looking into this, I found a document that was written by a university student for his PHD. He took the time and went through all the old records and upon doing so, discovered that the whole case rested on just 2 witnesses, one of them a top ally of the Habsburg 'king' and the other being a catholic bishop, also a top ally. 

A handful of other witnesses had their testimonies extracted by torture and were  executed soon after. The questionable language of the documents, discrepancies in the testimonies, evidence of collusion, political motives and the fact that normal legal procedures that applied weren't followed were noted by the researcher.

Soon afterwards, between the Habsburgs and the Vatican, Hungary was gradually totally destroyed from inside and out over the course of the next 500 years.

Source (in Hungarian):

http://midra.uni-miskolc.hu/JaDoX_Portlets/documents/document_14344_section_7592.pdf


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## Sasyexa (Feb 24, 2021)

Safranek said:


> Sasyexa said:
> 
> 
> > Elizabeth Bathory was a Jew.
> ...


Found an interesting tidbit here: Origin of the Székelys - Wikipedia 

"Some scholars (especially Gyula László and Pál Engel) say that the Székelys are the direct descendants of the "Late Avar" population of the region. The "Late Avar" period started around 700 A.D., and lasted for about a century. Artifacts (mostly buckles and strap ends) decorated with floral patterns and *griffins* are the most featured items of the assemblages for this period. László and Engel attribute this new archaeological horizon to a group of Onogurs who had fled from the Pontic steppes to the West after the *Khazars* destroyed their empire around 680"


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## Safranek (Feb 25, 2021)

Sasyexa said:


> Safranek said:
> 
> 
> > Sasyexa said:
> ...



That is not the interesting tidbit. They give it to you right up front;

"_Scholarly theories about the *origin of the Székelys* (a subgroup of the Hungarian people) can be divided into four main groups. *Medieval chronicles unanimously stated that the Székelys were descended from the Huns and settled in the Carpathian Basin centuries before the Hungarians (or Magyars) conquered the territory in the late 9th century. *This theory is refuted by most modern specialists. According to a widely accepted modern hypothesis, the Székelys were originally a Turkic people who joined the Magyars in the Pontic steppes. Other scholars say, the Székelys were descended from the border guards of the Kingdom of Hungary who settled in the easternmost region of the Carpathian Basin and preserved their special privileges for centuries. According to a fourth theory, the Székelys' origin can be traced back to the Late Avar population of the Carpathian Basin. _"

The highlighted part is the truth. As we know, history started being falsified at a great pace in the 1800's.

And;



> _There are ... in Transylvania, privileged nobles called Scythuli, originating from the Scythian people when they first came to Pannonia, whom we call by a corrupt name: Székely. They enjoy quite different laws and customs; they are very skilled in warfare; and divide up and distribute inheritances and offices among themselves by tribes and kindreds and the lineages of kindreds, in the manner of the ancients.
> — Tripartitum__[9]_


According to my research into this, the so called Siculi, Saka are most likely the royal line of the Scythians. The term Székely is very close to Székhely (one letter being omitted), which in today's Hungarian language means Place of the Throne. So this would indicate, as _ *Medieval chronicles unanimously stated. *_that the Scythian origin is the true one. Hence why they were able to keep their original language mostly intact while other Scythian nations of Europe (Celts, Gauls, Iberians, etc.) lost theirs due to earlier conquests leading to systematic erasure of their histories and being assimilated into the so-called 'Roman Empire'.


Silveryou said:


> _View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEt6C3vjrow_
> 
> The intent of these series is to expose a sort of "chronology of trolls/propaganda" from Joseph Justus Scaliger to Edward Louis Bernays.
> 
> ...




I listened to those podcasts when I was following up on Fomenko research a couple of years ago. It became pretty much evident that even the fabricators of our history were to some extent fabricated.


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## Sasyexa (Feb 25, 2021)

Safranek said:


> This theory is refuted by most modern specialists


This is usually the case with peoples, who claim Scythian origin, which is quite an extensive list:

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOM2fT6tBFE&list=PLru9zi8j7G3Nsz03pkBzFdv_1tRxdCMJo&index=1&ab_channel=AshaLogos_


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## Silveryou (Feb 25, 2021)

Safranek said:


> I listened to those podcasts when I was following up on Fomenko research a couple of years ago. It became pretty much evident that even the fabricators of our history were to some extent fabricated.


In my opinion there were two waves of fabrication. The first in the 16th century (probably) and the second starting in the 18th and continuing till now. Their relation is unclear to me though. The roots of the most important contemporary families seem to go back to the 16th century, therefore they could have a part in that first wave as well. All is pretty much confusing at this point though. The question is "who is who?"


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## Sasyexa (Feb 25, 2021)

Silveryou said:


> Safranek said:
> 
> 
> > I listened to those podcasts when I was following up on Fomenko research a couple of years ago. It became pretty much evident that even the fabricators of our history were to some extent fabricated.
> ...


In my headcanon it was two main factions of generally the same kind of people - one was Vatican and all it's branches, the other one is Freemasons/Illuminati, the second one became prominent about the time they merged in the end of 18th century. The Illuminati fully took over after WW2 in the 1960s/70s (I think it was after the death of Pope Pius XII) and began it's final course of destruction and propaganda


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## Safranek (Feb 25, 2021)

Sasyexa said:


> Safranek said:
> 
> 
> > This theory is refuted by most modern specialists
> ...




I like this channel, I've followed him on and off for some time. I especially like the idea he put forth in this video;

*The Launch of 'The Phoenix Project'*


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiSXX00X4NE_


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Silveryou said:


> Safranek said:
> 
> 
> > I listened to those podcasts when I was following up on Fomenko research a couple of years ago. It became pretty much evident that even the fabricators of our history were to some extent fabricated.
> ...



I have found the same regarding the centuries mentioned however, I found it to be that same 'families' from the 16th century on. They were already working at it prior to that, but they hadn't managed to take over the influence over all the original 'aristocracies', so as this proceeded, the falsifications gradually became more organized and effective. 

This is why you hardly find any 'documents' from the previous centuries. As they gained control over a nation, their history went up in one big bonfire (or a bunch of smaller ones). The 16th century spelled the true beginning of the end for Europeans (the descendants of the Scythians). 

To follow the threads right from Babylon to Rome to today, just follow the money and the picture becomes clear. Even a family like the Habsburgs (considered to be the masters of Europe for a time) were funded and thereby controlled by the Fuggers. 

All the 'emperors' needed money to run their empires, to conquer. Armies of mercenaries cost money and those with the money moved them from empire to empire. At the fall of each empire the people lost and the financiers become more powerful. Naturally, history was destroyed every step of the way.

To get certain countries, tribes, cultures to fight their own kind, the divide and conquer tactic continuously worked wonders. Deception was always the key aspect of war.


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## Silveryou (Feb 25, 2021)

Yes I agree with you overall, but I'm not so sure about the Habsburgs, even though I cannot explain my thought in a proper manner because I've not cleared my mind yet.


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## Safranek (Mar 4, 2021)

Silveryou said:


> Yes I agree with you overall, but I'm not so sure about the Habsburgs, even though I cannot explain my thought in a proper manner because I've not cleared my mind yet.



To shed some light on the Habsburgs and Fuggers;

_"During the 15th and 16th centuries, religious and political institutions fought frequent wars to gain or hold territory. Lacking citizen armies, the warring parties had to hire mercenary soldiers. European princes purchased bishoprics from the church. Holy Roman Emperors needed to bribe electors to gain that position. The Vatican state had to defend its territories in Italy against military     encroachment by the French. Surrounded by an explosion of artistic creation during the Renaissance, the Roman church adorned itself richly. Pope Julius II proposed to rebuild St. Peter’s church on a much grander scale. Famed artists such as Bramante, Raphael, and Michelangelo worked on this project for more than a century. These undertakings cost money. The mighty ones of Europe turned to bankers for the funds to carry out their various projects. *In April 1552, Emperor Charles V, arguably the most powerful European monarch since Charlemagne, had to beg Anton Fugger to lend him the funds to raise an army to oppose his former ally, Duke Maurice of Saxony, who had defected to the Protestant cause.* The emerging commercial sector thus gained leverage in society. 


Many  of the great banking houses in Europe began as financial adjuncts to textiles manufacturing. The city of Florence became a center of weaving and dyeing woolen cloth after the monastic Order of Humble Brethren relocated there from Tyre, bringing with them secrets of oriental cloth preparation. Florentine cloth gained a reputation for high quality. The wool was imported from northern Europe. Its transportation and financing involved risk. Florentine bankers, who handled the Papal funds, worked out a system of purchasing wool from England with monies collected there for the Roman church. Because the profit margin for woolen textiles was less than for luxury goods imported from the orient, cloth manufacturers in Florence had to watch their costs more closely. They had to develop more sophisticated ways to handle credit, to set prices, and cover their risks. They learned how to build a steady business based primarily on trust.


*The German House of Fugger began in the 14th century when Hans Fugger produced and marketed a cloth called “fustian” which consisted of linen and wool woven together. His two sons, Jakob and Andreas, continued the family business after Hans’ death. Jakob and his sons acquired great wealth in this business. They therefore had money to lend when, in 1488, the Archduke Sigismund of the Tyrol needed to borrow a substantial sum to compensate Venice following an unsuccessful war. As security, Jakob Fugger took an assignment of metal from a silver mine recently opened in the Tyrol. Once in the mining business, he received assignments from other Tyrolean mines and from copper mines in Hungary in exchange for loans to members of the Habsburg family, especially Maximilian I and Maximilian’s grandson, Charles V. The House of Fugger also handled Papal funds, earning substantial income from the different     exchange rates for receiving and dispersing funds in scattered places. Pope Julius II used the Fugger bank to deposit all incoming funds from the Jubilee Year of 1509, intended chiefly to pay for construction of St. Peter’s Church. *_


_The project to build a monumental church in Rome and adorn it with the finest works of Renaissance art seemed to some to reflect mistaken priorities. This was Judaic religion mated with the visual arts, a most unstable combination. To pay for the project, the church had to step up its fundraising efforts in northern Europe. When Johann Tetzel arrived in Saxony in 1517 to announce a new sale of papal indulgences, Martin Luther posted a religious manifesto on the door of the castle church in Wittenberg to protest abuses of the Roman church. Though branded a heretic, Luther received support from powerful German princes. Soon European society was split into two armed camps. The Protestants were religious fanatics in the tradition of Moses, Mohammed, and the Byzantine iconoclasts, who were opposed to worshiping God in the form of graven images. They preferred God’s word as presented in the Bible. The worldliness of the Roman church, its wealth and ornate decorations, offended Protestant sensibilities.* Ironically, the take from the sale of German indulgences was disappointing. Half of the proceeds went to the Fuggers for commissions and settlement of past debts.*_"

_Source: Chapter 2, Five Epochs of Civilization by William McGaughey (Thistlerose, 2000).

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and from an earlier thread; 

*In Germany, we find many Italian banking families migrating to Hamburg and becoming the hidden money behind the Hanseatic League,*_ an early trading company that used Spanish and Portuguese merchant sailors in the lucrative spice trade. These early unions of rich bankers investing in trade became the basis for what would become corporations like the Dutch and British East India companies. *In southern Germany, two great banking families emerged in the 15th Century, the Fuggers and the Welsers. They basically came to control much of the European economy and dominated international high finance in the 16th Century. The Fugger Bank lasted from 1486 to 1647. *_

https://stolenhistory.net/threads/the-hanseatic-league-who-were-they-really.3397/post-29712
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and another;

_In 1557 Hieronymus Wolf publish "Corpus Historiae Byzantinae" in which, for the first time, we met the word "byzantin"! The latin citizens called their country Imperium Romanorum and the greek citizens called their country Basileia ton Rhomaion, why would use today historians an invented term?! Who financed Hieronymus Wolf? *It was Anton Fugger who made him librarian at Fugger Library in Augsburg in 1551! The Fugger family is the family who replaced de Medici family, taking their assets and influence! *So called "ancient history" looks like a late medieval forgery! During medieval age the Romanians from today were called Vlachs and the last vlach school in Greece was closed after 1900!

What if the medieval and ancient history were invented in order to eradicate the memory of a destroyed civilization on planetary scale just a three-four hundreds years ago? _

https://stolenhistory.net/threads/t...lek-17th-century-north-america.1954/post-5635
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## Silveryou (Mar 4, 2021)

Safranek said:


> Source: Chapter 2, Five Epochs of Civilization by William McGaughey (Thistlerose, 2000).


About this first part I have nothing to say other than the absolute certainty with which the author of this reconstruction presents his arguments. One has to believe such a rational reconstruction with a proper and professional language! But I always have in mind the fact that these reconstructions are based on Scaligerian chronology. History is silently created with this kind of summaries by professional historians. I am more interested in primary sources, which are not well advertised and completely unknown to the general public, who is fed with reconstructions made by someone else. Here for example (Arch of Glory of Imperator Maximilian I) we can read a totally different origin of the Habsburg family and a totally different history of the germanic tribes. Why these professional historians deny stories which were renown in the Middle-Ages? Here (Origin of Homer's Illiad) I've recently found out that the disbelief in ancient history, its transformation in myth and its substitution with new "ancient" Egyptian and Babylonian stories supposedly dating to several millenia back in time, probably happened during the time of Scaliger.

The Habsburgs were at the centre of a scandal regarding the alleged fabrication of the Privilegium Maius (<i>Privilegium Maius</i>). I wanted to write something about it but then I stopped because it's a really long journey to accomplish. Anyway the one who supposedly discovered this fabrication was the Italian Petrarch (Petrarch - Wikipedia) and even if he his considered just a famous poet, he was in reality "the first to develop the concept of the Dark Ages". And the accusation towards the Habsburgs was probably his most important job during his lifetime. At the same time Charles IV (Charles IV, Holy Roman Emperor - Wikipedia) issued the Golden Bull of 1356 (Golden Bull of 1356) with which he explicitly named the seven Prince-electors who were to choose the King of the Romans. The Habsburg were not part of that list. Historians say that the Privilegium Maius followed a Privilegium Minus (<i>Privilegium Minus</i>) issued by Emperor Frederick Barbarossa (Frederick I, Holy Roman Emperor - Wikipedia) on 17 September 1156. It elevated the march of Austria to a duchy. Historians don't deny the validity of this document.
So here is my question. If the P. Minus was followed by a P. Maius, then why that fool and stupid of an Habsburg (Rudolph IV - Rudolf IV, Duke of Austria) claimed the P. Maius to be issued by Julius Caesar and Nero?!?!?! They lived more than 1000 years before his time! This is absurd beyond limits in my opinion. And when you see that the document was identified as a fake by Petrarch, first Humanist and first inventor of the Dark Ages, then you can see how the Habsburgs were probably the victims in this case.
That's why I'm sceptic about these studies. To me the truth is far more hidden than that. With this I am not saying that the Habsburg were the good ones and their opponents the bad guys, but the presence of Petrarch and Italian humanism is really fishy. And I've seen no mention of the conflict between Guelphs and Ghibellines (Guelphs and Ghibellines - Wikipedia). Barbarossa, who issued the P. Minus, was an enemy of the Pope. Thus the elevation of Austria to duchy should have a meaning. And Caesar and Nero mentioned in the P. Maius are not what we think they are today. Humanists went to Germany to find the ancient Latin authors! Why? Wouldn't it make more sense if they discovered those books in Rome, or anywhere in Italy?


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## Safranek (Nov 10, 2021)

Silveryou said:


> So here is my question. If the P. Minus was followed by a P. Maius, then why that fool and stupid of an Habsburg (Rudolph IV - Rudolf IV, Duke of Austria) claimed the P. Maius to be issued by Julius Caesar and Nero?!?!?! They lived more than 1000 years before his time! This is absurd beyond limits in my opinion. And when you see that the document was identified as a fake by Petrarch, first Humanist and first inventor of the Dark Ages, then you can see how the Habsburgs were probably the victims in this case.


Although I can't directly answer your question, I will add a few points to consider, based on personal opinion.

But first, I would just like to add that what brought me back to this question were the following threads, dealing with these times - The Dark Ages - and the so-called Roman and Byzantine Empires. It seems that the magnitude of falsification that occurred is huge enough that we have many academics in anthropology, archeology, history, linguistics and as of late, genetics who are speaking out regarding inconsistencies and attempting to revise the 'official' record we have been given to date.

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Let's start with yours; ;-)
Arch of Glory of Imperator Maximilian I​Arch of Glory of Imperator Maximilian I
France - Biblical Israel​France - Biblical Israel
How Long Was the First Millennium? - Gunnar Heinsohn’s stratigraphy-based chronology​How Long Was the First Millennium? (Part 3/3, Unz review)
From Scythia to Maghreb: Beyond the Phantom Middle Ages​From Scythia to Maghreb: Beyond the Phantom Middle Ages

and as of recent...
Real medieval history of England​Real medieval history of England

Of course, there are many other relevant threads containing useful info, but I'm just posting those that have inspired recent interest and are worthy of discussion individually, as well as in unison due to the additional chronological aspect tied to each.

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Ok, having said that, allow me to add a couple of points for consideration to your question.



> _"So here is my question. If the P. Minus was followed by a P. Maius, then why that fool and stupid of an Habsburg (Rudolph IV - Rudolf IV, Duke of Austria) claimed the P. Maius to be issued by Julius Caesar and Nero?!?!?! They lived more than 1000 years before his time!"_



Did they live 1000 years before him? Is that what Fomenko would say? Or Heinsohn? Or Illig? or Topper?

How would these tie in to the rise of the Habsburgs (with Fugger capital behind them - follow the money), exactly how many years would we be talking about given the chronological references mentioned by Fomenko, Illig, Topper and the last one to add to the list is Toth in the Scythia to Maghreb thread (whom I quote here)?



> Well, one who is practiced in the various parallel chronologies, may know that there existed a Seleucid chronology as well, that started 312 years before Christ. Since there wasn't a year zero in it's timeline, between the Christ chronology and Seleucid chronology there is an exactly 311 year difference. Now, if I propose that Childerik's claim of the throne in 457 is the Christian calendar correlation of Charlemagne's date of reign, and the 768 date is a Seleucid date, then it can easily be that these two kings: Charlemagne and Childerik, were equivalent.



and,



> As we know very well, two hundred years later, in 525 comes a monk named Dionysius Exiguus, otherwise of Scythian descent. He is the first one to bring up that it might be more honoring if we didn't use all sorts of various, irrelevant calendars, but would count years from the Birth of Christ. Dionysius Exiguus' proposal, however was to no avail.
> 
> There was a need for many hundreds of years to pass by, for this chronology to become popular. As we know the English chronicler Bede was already counting dates according to Christ. But even he didn't have many followers for years on end. It is only after the turn of the millennium, that there are many more chronicles written according to Christ.



So we have Scaliger's dating, Seleucid dating, Julian dating mixing simultaneously up to the time that the 'calendar' implemented the birth of Christ as a starting point. Historians have been lost studying the anomalies not being able to reconcile what obviously didn't make sense.

Now, thanks to those attempting to untangle the falsified chronology of Scaliger and the fabrications of 'historians' of the past, we are starting to be able to shed some light on the magnitude of the deception.

And a few 'facts' about Petrarch. Using his skills in the Latin language, he was able to determine the forgeries of the Habsburg-created documents. I have not problem with that as this is possible given that:



> Petrarch spent his early childhood in the village of Incisa, near Florence. He spent much of his early life at Avignon and nearby Carpentras, where his family moved to follow Pope Clement V, who moved there in 1309 to begin the Avignon Papacy. Petrarch studied law at the University of Montpellier (1316–20) and Bologna (1320–23) with a lifelong friend and schoolmate called Guido Sette. Because his father was in the legal profession (a notary), he insisted that Petrarch and his brother also study law. Petrarch, however, was primarily interested in writing and Latin literature and considered these seven years wasted. Additionally, he proclaimed that through legal manipulation his guardians robbed him of his small property inheritance in Florence, which only reinforced his dislike for the legal system. He protested, "I couldn't face making a merchandise of my mind," as he viewed the legal system as the art of selling justice.[8]



So we have a smart kid who loves Latin and is in the favor of Pope Clement V, but later gets cheated out of his inheritance in Florence, for which he blames the legal system? (according to the Wiki quote)

and we have this,



> In 1345 he personally discovered a collection of Cicero's letters not previously known to have existed, the collection _Epistulae ad Atticum_, in the Chapter Library (_Biblioteca Capitolare_) of Verona Cathedral.[17]
> 
> Disdaining what he believed to be the ignorance of the centuries preceding the era in which he lived, Petrarch is credited or charged with creating the concept of a historical "Dark Ages".[4]





> Petrarch also collated and restored Livy's History of the Roman Republic, a book which could be the founding charter of Civic Humanism.



But if we consider what is said in the *How Fake Is Roman Antiquity?* thread:



> Alcuin also wrote _Propositiones ad acuendos iuvenes, _which is seen as the earliest general survey of mathematical problems in Latin. “We do not understand how Alcuin could learn mathematics and write it down in Ciceronian Latin after the crises of the 3rd and 6th century, when there were no more teachers from Athens, Constantinople and Rome to instruct him.”[44]



and,



> In the mainstream of classical studies, ancient texts are assumed to be authentic if they are not proven forged. Cicero’s _De Consolatione _is now universally considered the work of Carolus Sigonius (1520-1584), an Italian humanist born in Modena, only because we have a letter by Sigonius himself admitting the forgery. But short of such a confession, or of some blatant anachronism, historians and classical scholars will simply ignore the possibility of fraud. They would never, for example, suspect Francesco Petrarca, known as Petrarch (1304-1374), of faking his discovery of Cicero’s letters, even though he went on publishing his own letters in perfect Ciceronian style. Jerry Brotton is not being ironic when he writes in _The Renaissance Bazaar_: “Cicero was crucial to Petrarch and the subsequent development of humanism because he offered a new way of thinking about how the cultured individual united the philosophical and contemplative side of life with its more active and public dimension. […] This was the blueprint for Petrarch’s humanism.”[6]



and take into consideration that he was part of a lawyer family working for the papacy, then how much can we rely on anything he writes?

I believe this was your point when you questioned why he would turn against the Habsburgs by declaring their forgeries to be what they are. Here's my answer in a 'what if' form that may explain how the Habsburgs most certainly are NOT the good guys of their time, but at the same time may have had a 'slap-on-the-hand' for something they may or may not have done.

What if...

The Dark Ages didn't exist (Illiq, Fomenko, Toth, Topper)

and instead,

there was a time when civilization flourished (Heinsohn), except it was NOT a Roman civilization but a Celt/Frank//Goth/Gaul/Hun/Iberian/Norman/Sax/Slav civilization (Szabo). In other words, Scythian 'tribes/factions'.

Then came the conquerors who do what they do best. Burn, destroy and re-write his-story.

It is entirely possible that there were power-struggles among these new 'Roman Emperors' and the Habsburgs were targeted because another 'power' wanted the top spot, financed by a different faction in opposition to the Fuggers who supported them, or the Fuggers' friends, relatives and associates may have even been supporting both sides as it has been done to date. (There most likely were other financier families involved for the logistics of which we'll have to dig deeper.)

So IMO, summarizing the Scythia to Maghreb thread, in a nutshell this would give us....

Various Scythian (mentioned by many names) tribes occupying  the area from the Scythian Sea to Continental Europe, the Balkans, Greece, Iberia and Anglia living peacefully as 'people of the cross' with respect to their religion.

Than Greece, the Balkans, Iberia, and parts of Continental Europe and Anglia are invaded by 'foreigners', let's call them 'Romans'.

In response, additional Scythian/Hun and relative tribes under the leadership of Attila (and other names) retaliate and take back the conquered lands and his ancestors go on to reform their culture for the next few hundred years.

until,

certain ruling families (Habsburgs, Romanovs, Fuggers, Medicis, Orsinis, Sforzas, etc., I'm sure we can pin-point the families in all conquered nations from Greece to England to Russia), by continuous deception, waves of invasions using mercenaries and infiltrating the 'Royal/Leader' lines of the Scythian tribes, remnants of them are separated via language changes and false histories, brought to them through takeover by the Papal Holy See and the 'Roman' Emperors declared by them, and are made to fight and destroy each other as 'enemies' via the instigation and financing of the PTB of the time.

Upon following the threads mentioned at the beginning of this post added to the background-history we've all been discussing in the various threads, I personally think this is the most likely conclusion.

When Scythia was the main power in Northern Europe and Asia, there must have just been one common language for them, Scythian, with probably many dialects, but mostly understandable across the 'board'. Upon the many inquisitions, the culture was probably destroyed, languages altered and false histories created.

Now, we are faced with the likelihood of being 'hereditary brothers', pit against each other, as Germans, Huns, Latinos, Slavs, etc., by our past and present kings, queens, popes, emperors, historians and a multitude of other institutions, none of which represent 'us' and most of which openly work against 'us'.

IF....    this is indeed the case, my question is this;

How can we contribute to reconciling our differences stemming from our falsified history and chronology as handed us by our conquerors, if we continue to look shortsightedly from a perspective of artificially induced nationalistic pride, illusion of academic grandeur or a lack of perception to make sense of all the research presented to us by alternative historians and revisionists objectively?

And this question applies mostly to us here at SH and to those at other sites searching and contributing to uncovering our true history. For the rest of society, for the sake of a cliche, the Hollywood-consuming, scientism-believing masses living in the Disney-Pepsi world, we'd have to pose a different question.

In conclusion, I would like to add that this 'what if' scenario, although based on considerable research (like everyone else's ;-)), is my personal view of a possible historical sequence of events that would put things into the proper perspective and put many a hypotheses to rest via offering an action/reaction sequence of events that are congruent with historical maps, archeology, linguistics and genetics. (Excluding most of mainstream, of course.)


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## Silveryou (Nov 10, 2021)

Very long post so I'm not going to comment on everything, since you also added a post on the other Arch-thread and for me it's difficult to answer everything.

Starting from the end I would say that I'm not a fan of reconstructions, since I feel we lack too many informations and confirmations. But I have to say that your reconstruction is similar to mine, even if I would describe those primordial actors with the 'classic' names of Acheans, Troyans and the like. Achilles being a Schityan shows the relationship between various tribes in antiquity as being part of what we now generally consider the so-called Indo-Europeans. And this is a direct answer to your legit question about who's who and reconciliation. So I have my personal ancient bias which I partially described in this thread (Homer in the Baltic). I personally think that it was in origin an internal Indo-European conflict which later took the semblance of a religious and then racial conflict.



Safranek said:


> Did they live 1000 years before him? Is that what Fomenko would say? Or Heinsohn? Or Illig? or Topper?





Safranek said:


> What if...
> 
> The Dark Ages didn't exist (Illiq, Fomenko, Toth, Topper)


I was rethorical here. My point is that it is an absurdity to claim rights on a territory supposedly given to me by someone who lived 1300 years before my time. So, in line with the recentists I am saying that in his time Rudolf was probably telling... the truth?!? How could someone hope to be believed if there was not the _possibility_ that Caesar or Nero had in fact granted those rights? To whom Rudolf was talking to, so ignorant to believe in such a stupid thing?(rethorical here)
I personally think that Caesar and Nero were perceived by everyone as characters living certainly in the past, but a recent past.


Safranek said:


> and take into consideration that he was part of a lawyer family working for the papacy, then how much can we rely on anything he writes?


Following this the actions of Petrarch become even more suspect. He was the one who created a symbolic gap (the dark ages) in the world timeline, therefore scouting the path that lead to the creation of the middle-ages and the throwing back in time of Caesar and Nero. And he worked for the Colonnas and therefore the Vatican Roman aristocracy.


Safranek said:


> I believe this was your point when you questioned why he would turn against the Habsburgs by declaring their forgeries to be what they are. Here's my answer in a 'what if' form that may explain how the Habsburgs most certainly are NOT the good guys of their time, but at the same time may have had a 'slap-on-the-hand' for something they may or may not have done.


Exactly. I have nonetheless some doubts about your take on the Habsburgs. As I said on the Arch-thread I am probably developing some kind of feticism towards them (I like this face so much), but it seems to me that even if I'm certain they were motherf***** as one should be when in power for some 3-4 centuries, the actual historiography is totally against them, which is quite suspect. And the *zero (0)* covering by historians of the incredible conflict of interests involving Petrarch in the dismission of the Privilegium Maius, makes me wonder if those guys were at least _right_, if not _good_.

EDIT: Safra I've not yet read your other post!


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## Fawkes (Nov 11, 2021)

Safranek said:


> Even a family like the Habsburgs (considered to be the masters of Europe for a time) were funded and thereby controlled by the Fuggers.


Was there also a German "Fuchs" banking family, or were they the same as the Fuggers?


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## alltheleaves (Dec 26, 2021)

Silveryou said:


> _View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEt6C3vjrow_
> 
> The intent of these series is to expose a sort of "chronology of trolls/propaganda" from Joseph Justus Scaliger to Edward Louis Bernays.
> 
> ...



Bernays' Scaliger book in German as a text file here. Maybe someone can run it through translate.google or deepl translator. I've managed to do entire book doc files in one shot. Full text of "Joseph Justus Scaliger"


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