# Greek question



## Coulness (Feb 16, 2021)

Hoping someone with some linguistic knowledge might be able to explain to me:
Why Greek?

What I mean is why is Greek the title of such a widely used language when the Romans appear to have been the world conquering force?

I have many little supplementary questions, but maybe understanding this first question will answer more!


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## dreamtime (Feb 16, 2021)

Maybe because the "Romans" needed a convincing origin story, and they went with the Greco-Roman myth of deep antiquity, origin of democracy, culture, writing, etc.


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## Megalonymous (Feb 16, 2021)

the world conquering force was alexander and his oekumene. romans were in Italy because the proto romans were evicted from their original home by the greeks. everywhere the romans went was already greek[ish].
Alexander even found the actual garden of eden...


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## matematik (Feb 16, 2021)

I've read that most of Greece, including Athens, used to be Albanian speaking (it's called "Arvanite" in Greece) and then in the 1800s post-Ottoman Empire, the "Great Powers" (Britain, France, Austria-Hungary, Russia) decided to create the Greek Republic and make Greek the official language, to create the impression of an unbroken link to antiquity.

Apparently the fact Greece used to be Albanian speaking is a taboo subject there these days. They've tried to erase it from their history, I've read that there are still some rural villages in Greece where the first language of the elderly is Albanian, but apparently it's considered unpatriotic to speak it publicly and is a very sensitive issue, because it gets in the way of the narrative that modern Greeks are the direct descendants of the ancient Greeks.

I'm of the opinion that Modern Greek is probably an artificial language imposed on the inhabitants of what is now "Greece" mainly to back up the establishment narrative of antiquity and create physical "proof" of it. Before Greek was probably just the liturgical language of the Orthodox church, and then turned into the national language, similar to how Modern Hebrew was artificially made the language of Israel, a language that no one other than religious clerics would have spoken before the 1940s.


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## Huaqero (Feb 16, 2021)

I am Greek. And I am troubled about this as well.
_2021 is the 200th Anniversary of the beginning of our War of Independence (WOI), 1821._
However, having followed the discussions, mainly here, about stolen history matters, I have noticed several things that make our WOI a case that is full of stolen-history, in accordance to almost all the observed abnormalities of the 19th century:

questionable battles
questionable narratives
population transfers
out of place buildings
fake personalities
linguistic paradoxes
towns with exploding growth right after their establishment
secret society activities ...
... you name it! Our WOI is a stolen-history goldmine.
I hope that I will soon be able to post things under a _'1821-2021 Greek Independence Stolen History Special'_ title;
I already have a lot of stuff to present to you, but, I am a slow writer and I have a few basic sources to read, first, in order to consolidate something worth reading.

But, here is the picture that has started to appear to me, and I think it offers a rough answer to the question of this thread:

_The 'Ancient Greek' world that we know and learn about and admire its antiquities and works of art, is actually a pre-cataclysmic world._
Maybe the 'Atlantean' itself, maybe called somehow else, but not 'Greek' or 'Hellenic'.
_It is the Lost Civilization._ Its language was what we now call 'Ancient Greek'.

Secret societies of the West knew that and became the inheritors of the written works and philosophy and myths that survived.
This is why the secret societies include 'ancient greek' iconography, greek letters for the fraternities, etc.
And this is why the scientific vocabulary is full of 'ancient greek' terminology: they 'anglishized' the words they found in the inherited texts.
It was not out of 'admiration' for the greek language, it was practical. They were inheritors.

They also came to this part of the world, the Balkans, to search for what remained here after the catastrophe. What they found was a mixed salad of mostly primitive Balkan tribes. They found albanian speaking ones, turkic speaking ones, slavic speaking ones, latin speaking ones (the Wlachs) and, amongst some others, they found one tribe that spoke a language that was the closest to the one of the Lost Civilization that they inherited. All living next to lots of ruins, from which they were completely detached.

This living tribe were the Greeks (Γραικοί - Graekoi).
Note that, according to the academia, the 'Greeks' were an _ancient tribe of the balkans, long lost_, like the Achaeans, the Myceaneans, the Spartans, the Macedonians, etc, yet there are sources and modern traditions that show that, until the 19th century, there were people that were calling themselves that way.
A common WOI rebel yell of ours that survives in our oral tradition was "Εγώ Γραικός γεννήθηκα, Γραικός και θα πεθάνω!" ("I was born Graikos, I will die Graekos!").
One of our earlier linguists published a small book called "Dialogue Between Two Graekoi", with the heroes being contemporaries of his, discussing politics.
A famous painter of the 16th cent. from Crete, which is an island and not mainland Greece, was called 'El Greco' by the Spaniards.
Why do encyclopedias still call 'Greeks' an ancient lost tribe?

So, my guess is that the secret societies decided to build a new nation, based on that tribe, the Greeks, largely because of the large linguistic resemblance to the Lost Civilization's language.
Maybe, the balkan Graekoi themselves were also the closest survivors, but, now, nothing more than a local tribe amongst others.
_The masonic 'Philhellenic' ('Friends of Hellenes') movement of the West, with the help of local masonic leaders (Φιλική Εταιρία), helped the Greeks gain Independence as 'Hellenes' - 'Ελληνες', the way we now call ourselves_, after a -mostly fake- War of Independence.
The rest of the tribes were later more or less absorbed to the new 'Hellenic' State.
_The Philhellenes made sure that the Lost Civilization, now called 'Ancient Greek' was connected to the present times through this new nation, thus, leaving no traces of the catastrophe that destroyed it._
So, they gave us a new identity for our new blended State, the Hellenic identity, but continued to call us what we are, 'Graekoi-Greeks'.

Here is a key point:
While the Balkan Graekoi started calling ourselves 'Hellenes', _our cousins in Southern Italy_ continued calling themselves 'Griko'!
Why? Because they remained _unaffected_ by the Philhellenic movement!
Another major clue that Graekoi were alive and kicking in the 19th century, and not a lost ancient tribe.

This is my theory, in a few words. I'll have to match the timelines for it to make more sense, but, everything here is about crazy timelines, anyway, lol...

---------------
Now, I recently listened again to a _Sylvie Ivanova_'s piece about Ancient Rome and Greece.
While she seems to be mostly correct about the fake antiquity, according to her slavic nationalistic worldview, the modern Greeks are a _fake tribe_ made of albanians and wlachs and slavs. The derogatory tone in her voice against us was telling...
*  No!*
_We are a new nation, built by secret society expeditions, with the real tribe of Graekoi as a backbone._
I think this explains everything about the presence of other tribes in our WOI, the presence of Greek-speakers in other balkan countries and the linguistic issues in our area. (How was an 'artificial greek language' developed _outside_ the Hellenic State, Sylvie?)
Moreover, the rest of the balkan nations/states, slavs>bulgarians/serbs, ottomans>turks, shqiptars>albanians were later built in the same fashion by other masonic expeditions, writing the 'history' of the Balkans we 'know', so noone can claim purity, Sylvie...!

And, going back to the initial question of the thread, the 'Ancient Greek language' was actually the Lost Civilization language, at least one of them.
It is _everyone's_ mother language, whether Greek/Hellenic, or English/inheritors ...


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## Lightseeker (Feb 16, 2021)

Huaqero said:


> I am Greek. And I am troubled about this as well.
> _2021 is the 200th Anniversary of the beginning of our War of Independence (WOI), 1821._
> However, having followed the discussions, mainly here, about stolen history matters, I have noticed several things that make our WOI a case that is full of stolen-history, in accordance to almost all the observed abnormalities of the 19th century:
> 
> ...



Modern Greeks are not related to ancient Greeks, are they?


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## Huaqero (Feb 16, 2021)

Lightseeker said:


> Huaqero said:
> 
> 
> > I am Greek. And I am troubled about this as well.
> ...


I think all Europeans/Whites are survivors of the people depicted in the 'Greco/Roman' art that is found buried.


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## Clown Of God (Feb 17, 2021)

Great post.I can only contribute with another’s quotes.
The Newearth lady brought this issue up in one of her countless videos.
Some might be fazed with her theory as I guess ( if I have understood her correctly) it ties in with the Scythia-Tartaria-Slav connection or relation.She brings up that term Grk (Which in Slavic connotes a Greek) comes from the Slavic word Grkljan which means throat.In the light of this, she speculate or have a theory that this province that we today call Greece (Grcka -Grchka phonetically) was a region ( in some empire as I understand it..can’t recall which or if she named it at all) dominated or where many priests,clerks and scribes lived ( Implying educated individuals that could read,write and probably talk well (ability to put and express thoughts,ideas,mental concepts in word..both in speech and writing) Defined by this ability to be great masters of words (maybe some of the region was an seat for philosophy and religion), she speculates that they got their Slavic name Grci In a nickname or short name type of way.

I myself have read about a possible connection between Greeks and Armenians.To me it would somewhat tie in with the above speculation. Since Armenian is/was a so called Christian stronghold.Then there is the theory that the Greeks are essentially immigrated Arabs.


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## Oracle (Feb 25, 2021)

Huaqero said:


> I am Greek. And I am troubled about this as well.
> _2021 is the 200th Anniversary of the beginning of our War of Independence (WOI), 1821._
> However, having followed the discussions, mainly here, about stolen history matters, I have noticed several things that make our WOI a case that is full of stolen-history, in accordance to almost all the observed abnormalities of the 19th century:
> 
> ...



One of the books I am rereading at the moment is the Oera Linda, a copy of which I downloaded from Here

In the introduction it says the following by a linguistic expert who examined the book and was trying to ascertain it's authenticity.

" Immediately occurred to me Cæsar's remark upon the writing of the Gauls and the Helvetians in his "Bello Gallico" (i. 29, and vi. 14), "Græcis utuntur literis," though it appears in v. 48 that they were not entirely Greek letters. Cæsar thus points out only a resemblance--and a very true one--as the writing, which does not altogether correspond with any known form of letters, resembles the most, on a cursory view, the Greek writing, such as is found on monuments and the oldest manuscripts, and belongs to the form which is called lapidary. Besides, I formed the opinion afterwards that the writer of the latter part of the book had been a contemporary of Cæsar.  The form and the origin of the writing is so minutely and fully described in the first part of the book, as it could not be in any other language. It is very complete, and consists of thirty-four letters, among which are three separate forms of a and u, and two of e, i, y, and o, besides four pairs of double consonants ng, th, hs, and gs. The ng, which as a nasal sound has no particular mark in any other Western language, is an indivisible conjunction; the th is soft, as in English, and is sometimes replaced by d; the gs is seldom met with--I believe only in the word segse, to say, in modern Fries sidse, pronounced sisze.  The paper, of large quarto size, is made of cotton, not very thick, without water-mark or maker's mark, made upon a frame or wire-web, with not very broad perpendicular lines.  An introductory letter gives the year 1256 as that in which this manuscript was written by Hiddo overa Linda on foreign paper. Consequently it must have come from Spain, where the Arabs brought into the market paper manufactured from cotton.  On this subject, W. Wattenbach writes in his "Das Schriftwesen im Mittelalter" (Leipzig, 1871), s. 93:--  "The manufacture of paper from cotton must have been in use among the Chinese from very remote times, and must have become known to the Arabs by the conquest of Samarcand about the year 704. In Damascus this manufacture was an important branch of industry, for which reason it was called Charta Damascena. By the Arabians this art was brought to the Greeks. It is asserted that Greek manuscripts of the tenth century written upon cotton paper exist, and that in the thirteenth century it was much more used than parchment. To distinguish it from Egyptian paper it was called Charta bombicina, gossypina, cuttunea, xylina. A distinction from linen paper was not yet necessary. In the manufacture of the cotton paper raw cotton was originally used. We first find paper from rags mentioned by Petrus Clusiacensis (1122-50).  "The Spaniards and the Italians learned the manufacture of this paper from the Arabians. The most celebrated factories were at Jativa, Valencia, Toledo, besides Fabriano in the March of Ancona." 1 In Germany the use of this material did not become very extended, whether it came from Italy or Spain. Therefore the further this preparation spread from the East and the adjoining countries, the more necessity there was that linen should take the place of cotton. A document of Kaufbeuren on linen paper of the year 1318 is of very doubtful genuineness. Bodman considers the oldest pure linen paper to be of the year 1324, but up to 1350 much mixed paper was used. All carefully-written manuscripts of great antiquity show by the regularity of their lines that they must have been ruled, even though no traces of the ruled lines can be distinguished. To make the lines they used a thin piece of lead, a ruler, and a pair of compasses to mark the distances.     In old writings the ink is very black or brown; but while there has been more writing since the thirteenth century, the colour of the ink is often grey or yellowish, and sometimes quite pale, showing that it contains iron. All this affords convincing proof that the manuscript before us belongs to the middle of the thirteenth century, written with clear black letters between fine lines carefully traced with lead. The colour of the ink shows decidedly that it does not contain iron. By these evidences the date given, 1256, is satisfactorily proved, and it is impossible to assign any later date. Therefore all suspicion of modern deception vanishes.  The language is very old Fries, still older and purer than the Fries Rjuchtboek or old Fries laws, differing from that both in form and spelling, so that it appears to be an entirely distinct dialect, and shows that the locality of the language must have been (as it was spoken) between the Vlie and the Scheldt.  The style is extremely simple, concise, and unembarrassed, resembling that of ordinary conversation, and free in the choice of the words. The spelling is also simple and easy, so that the reading of it does not involve the least difficulty, and yet with all its regularity, so unrestricted, that each of the separate writers who have worked at the book has his own peculiarities, arising from the changes in pronunciation in a long course of years, which naturally must have happened, as the last part of the work is written five centuries after the first.  As a specimen of antiquity in language and writing, I believe I may venture to say that this book is unique of its kind.  The writing suggests an observation which may be of great importance.  The Greeks know and acknowledge that their writing was not their own invention. They attribute the introduction of it to Kadmus, a Phenician. The names of their oldest letters, from Alpha to Tau, agree so exactly with the names of the letters in the Hebrew alphabet, with which the Phenician will have been nearly connected, that we cannot doubt that the Hebrew was the origin of the Phenician. But the form of their letters differs so entirely from that of the Phenician and Hebrew writing, that in that particular no connection can be thought of between them. Whence, then, have the Greeks derived the form of their letters?  From "thet bok thêra Adele folstar" ("The Book of Adela's Followers") we learn that in the time when Kadmus is said to have lived, about sixteen centuries. before Christ, a brisk trade existed between the Frisians and the Phenicians, whom they named Kadhemar, or dwellers on the coast.  The name Kadmus comes too near the word Kadhemar for us not to believe that Kadmus simply meant a Phenician.  Further on we learn that about the same time a priestess of the castle in the island of Walcheren, Min-erva, also called Nyhellenia, had settled in Attica at the head of a Frisian colony, and had founded a castle at Athens. Also, from the accounts written on the walls of Waraburch, that the Finns likewise had a writing of their own--a very troublesome and difficult one to read--and that, therefore, the Tyrians and the Greeks had learned the writing of Frya. By this representation the whole thing explains itself, and it becomes clear whence comes the exterior resemblance between the Greek and the old Fries writing, which Cæsar also remarked among the Gauls; as likewise in what manner the Greeks acquired and retained the names of the Finn and the forms of the Fries writing.  Equally remarkable are the forms of their figures. We usually call our figures Arabian, although they have not the least resemblance to those used by the Arabs. The Arabians did not bring their ciphers from the East, because the Semitic nations used the whole alphabet in writing numbers. The manner of expressing all numbers by ten signs the Arabs learned in the West, though the form was in some measure corresponding with their writing, and was written from left to right, after the Western fashion. Our ciphers seem here to have sprung from the Fries ciphers (siffar), which form had the same origin as the handwriting, and is derived from the lines of the Juul?  The book as it lies before us consists of two parts, differing widely from each other, and of dates very far apart. The writer of the first part calls herself Adela, wife of Apol, chief man of the Linda country. This is continued by her son Adelbrost, and her daughter Apollonia. The first book, running from page 1 to 88, is written by Adele. The following part, from 88 to 94, is begun by Adelbrost and continued by Apollonia. The second book, running from page 94 to 114, is written by Apollonia. Much later, perhaps two hundred and fifty years, a third book is written, from page 114 to 134, by Frethorik; then follows from page 134 to 143, written by his widow, Wiljow; after that from page 144 to 169 by their son, Konereed; and then from page 169 to 192 by their grandson, Beeden. Pages 193 and 194, with which the last part must have begun, are wanting, therefore the writer is unknown. He may probably have been a son of Beeden.  On page 134, Wiljow makes mention of another writing of Adela. These she names "thet bok thêra sanga (thet boek), thêra tellinga," and "thet Hellênia bok;" and afterwards "tha skrifta fon Adela jeftha Hellênia." "

So what I am considering  here is that maybe you are right about ancient greek being a pre cataclysmic language and that that language was Old  Fries ?
Just thought I'd add it here as I recently read this thread and thought this man's observations relevant.


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## freygeist (Feb 25, 2021)

Oracle said:


> So what I am considering  here is that maybe you are right about ancient greek being a pre cataclysmic language and that that language was Old  Fries ?
> Just thought I'd add it here as I recently read this thread and thought this man's observations relevant.



Interesting, some languages that are connected to frrisian, are still spoken in northern europa, in germany it is sometimes referred as "Plattdeutsch" or "Niederdeutsch", which is similar to the dutch language, being kind of the root of german and british language. Take the number 55 "Fündundfünzig" "Fiftyfive" or "viijvenvijftig". Many "platt" or "east frisian" speaking germans, can understand and speak dutch, and vice versa, but these people are rare now.


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## Oracle (Feb 25, 2021)

freygeist said:


> Oracle said:
> 
> 
> > So what I am considering  here is that maybe you are right about ancient greek being a pre cataclysmic language and that that language was Old  Fries ?
> ...


Yes! That is what I am researching at the moment.
IF the Oera Linda is authentic, and it states it's reach spread far and wide pre catastrophe (flood), then IT is the ancient world empire. This is what I'm trying to ascertain, it's a huge undertaking though but threads like this all help to tie information together.
And as said earlier in this thread, it would be proof that "we are all one". Something I firmly believe in.
If we can prove this in the eyes of all people, then hopefully we can forever end the hate  ?

And it will also prove it is the parasites to the whole world ( who I believe are the Phoenicians) who are the one's setting us all apart.
Oh I would die happy if we can expose this and have a true not manipulated World community!


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## Huaqero (Feb 25, 2021)

And how does this relate to this other thread here Homer in the Baltic , I wonder... So interesting.
I have not gotten into the details of Oera Linda and the Homer-thread yet, but will soon do.
There is an Asha Logos video too, on O.L., I quickly got lost into the details and quit it, now I hope I find time to review it.

In the meanwhile, just another thought for you to consider:

I strongly got the impression that _the archaeological sites in my country, at least, were named by those secret society agents_,
when they came here to build the balkan nations (and maybe record the aftermath of a catastrophe).
I mean, there are ruins everywhere, many of them are megalithic.
How could they know that, for example, that particular ruin was 'ancient Pleurona', when there were no ... traffic signs with its name
and the local greek shepherds called the place 'Gipsy-castle'?
Did they possess any original ancient Greek maps? Lol, no.

_*They had found survived texts with those names and, book-on-one-hand/drawing-board-on-the-other,
they started naming names of sites on the new maps.*_

I can almost listen to their conversation:

_"This we call 'Pleurona', done, the one we found earlier is 'Corinth', done, ...

Oh, look at this huge temple on top of that rock! This must be that big city 'Athens' we read about,
with that temple the Partha... Pertha... Parthenon, that's it, the 'Parthenon'!

And, you know what, Edward?
Do you remember those troubling-to-explain atlantean sculptures we found on the basement of the British Museum?
We can claim that we found them here, on the Parthenon and shipped them to London, because 'we appreciate art':
"Ancient Greek Art"... Sounds nice! Let's write a memoir of our fake shipment later, shall we?"_


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## Blue Ice (Feb 20, 2022)

Sorry if this has already been discussed. I’ve been struck by how much Albanian people look like Anscidnt Greek statues. Has anyone else noticed this? Are Albanians true Anscient Greeks? They are also uncommonly beautiful people as a group. I have no relation to Albania and Albanians and have never been there. Their uncommon good and I would even say “aristocratic” looks is something that I’ve noticed.


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## Gladius (Feb 20, 2022)

Hebrew language texts, from earliest to modern, name the Greek people as "Ionians", based on the anatolian group.
Ionians, Yevanim יוונים
Ionia Yavan יוון

The name is used to describe all hellenic civilization, including "late antiquity". YAVAN is described in Genesis as Japeth's son.
The form of "Greek" is never used. Romans are called Ionians as well.
The Jews make no distinction between Greeks and Romans apart from the banner they serve in the given story.

I always suspected that the Hebrew "Yavan" does not refer to actual Greece, and that neither does the global term "Greeks" originally refers to the Balkan people. Could it actually mean "orthodox christians"? Thinking in reversal, that the term used to describe Christians prior to catholicism, and was later attributed to a local ethnic group, and not the other way around. 

I'm not well invested in this research yet, but I'll take you a bit far, to 17th Century Ukraine, to the Khmelnytsky Uprising, fought between Ukraine's Orthodox Cossacks, aided by Tartars, against the Polish Catholics.
The war had a great impact on the Jews, therefore a chronology book was written by them to describe the events.

The book is called Yavan Metzula. 
(יוון מצולה , "Greece Depths") No english version found. Published in late 1650's,
The book describes a conflict between the "Polish nation, People of the Pope" (catholics) and "The Greek People" (יוונים) which are today attributed to the orthodox Ukrainians.
Scholars claim that the author named the Ukrainians "Greeks", because they're "Greek Orthodox". When reading the book, the author makes it clear to me at least, that these are "Greek people", while he does name the catholics as Poles. The book's title, Greece Depths,  signifies the events happen in "Greece", or Ionia.
"Yevanim" as a term is always used in Hebrew texts to (allegedly) describe the pagan Hellenic people who conquer Israel for many times. This book, is the only occassion where you'll find of Jews describing Orthodox Christians as "Greeks".
The word Christian or Orthodox isn't used at all throughout the book.
I'm probably not throwing any strong evidence here but hope it may bring value to some extent.


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