SH Archive 1880s Submarines: Zalinski Boat and Gymnote

[KD Archive]

This stuff just keeps on popping out. These weird "no education" inventors and their so-called inventions. None of them have any pertinent education, but all of them invent things requiring construction bureaux and armies of engineers. This Edmund Zalinski guy here is something special. Holland is not far behind. Check this out.

• Tell me that "the hand" means nothing after this one...

Edmund entered the war in November 1864, at age fourteen, volunteering as an Aide-de-Camp to General Nelson A. Miles. In a letter dated February 11, 1865, Miles wrote to then Massachusetts Senator Henry Wilson:

• “I have a young friend, Lt. Edward Zalinski (the youngest officer in the army) who has been here since November and is very desirous of obtaining an appointment (at large) to the West Point Academy. His papers were presented to the President by the Hon. Isaac Newton, Commissioner of Agriculture. He is a young man of fine education and excellent character, has been under fire with me, and I can vouch for his bravery. Any assistance you can afford him will greatly oblige me.”
• Edmund Louis Gray Zalinski: Soldier, Scholar, Inventor | Shapell

Fifteen year old 2nd Lieutenant Edmund Zalinski


Edmund Zalinski​

Let's get the narrative out of the way. Edmund Louis Gray Zalinski was a Polish-born American soldier, military engineer and inventor. He is best known for the development of the pneumatic dynamite torpedo-gun. Zalinski was born in Kórnik, Prussian Poland on December 13, 1849, and emigrated with his parents to the United States in 1853.

1849-1909

• He began school in Seneca Falls, New York and attended high school in Syracuse until 1863, when he dropped out at the age of 15. ​
• Lying about his age, Zalinski enlisted in the United States Army, and served during the American Civil War as aide-de-camp on the staff of General Nelson A. Miles from October 1864.​
• In February 1865, he was commissioned a second lieutenant in the Second New York Heavy Artillery Regiment, having been recommended for promotion for gallant and meritorious conduct at the Battle of Hatcher's Run, Virginia.​
• He continued on General Miles's staff until the surrender of General Robert E. Lee in April 1865. ​
• He was promoted to first lieutenant in January 1867, and finally to captain on December 9, 1887. ​
• President Johnson pardoned Dr. Mudd in 1869, citing Lieutenant Zalinski's petition as one of the reasons. ​
• From 1872 till 1876 Zalinski served at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology as professor of military science. ​
• He graduated at the Artillery School, Fort Monroe on May 1, 1880, and at the school of submarine mining, Willets Point, New York, in July of the same year. ​
  • His name became widely known in connection with the invention and development of items of military technology, particularly the pneumatic dynamite torpedo-gun. He also invented the electrical fuse and other devices for the practical application of the weapon, and devised a method for the exact sight allowance to be made for deviation due to wind in the use of rifled artillery and small arms. Other inventions included a modified entrenching tool, a ramrod-bayonet, and a telescopic sight for artillery. ​
• That's it for education, and bla-bla-bla...​

Zalinski Dynamite Torpedo Gun

John Philip Holland​

John Philip Holland was an Irish engineer who developed the first submarine to be formally commissioned by the U.S. Navy, and the first Royal Navy submarine, the Holland 1. He is widely regarded as the father of the modern submarine for his designs.

1841-1914

Holland was born in a coastguard cottage in Liscannor, Ireland in 1841. The area was heavily Irish-speaking and Holland learned English properly only when he attended the local English-speaking St Macreehy's National School, and from 1858, Irish Christian Brothers school in Ennistymon.

• Holland joined the Irish Christian Brothers in Limerick and taught in Limerick and many other centres in the country including North Monastery CBS, St. Mary's CBS, St Joseph's CBS and as the first Mathematics teacher in Colaiste Ris. ​
• Due to ill health, he left the Christian Brothers in 1873. ​
• Holland emigrated to the United States in 1873. ​
• Initially working for an engineering firm, he returned to teaching again for a further six years in St. John's Catholic school in Paterson, New Jersey. ​
• After his arrival in the United States, Holland slipped and fell on an icy Boston street and broke a leg. ​
  • While recuperating from the injury in a hospital, he used his time to refine his submarine designs and was encouraged by Isaac Whelan, a priest.​
• In 1875, his submarine designs were submitted for consideration by the US Navy, but turned down as unworkable.
• More bla-bla-bla...​

Submarines designed by John P. Holland

• Holland I
• Holland II (named Fenian Ram)
• Holland III
• Holland IV
• Holland V (named Plunger)
• Holland VI – First modern submarine in the United States Navy. Launched in 1897. Acquired by US Navy in 1900.
• HMS Holland 1 – First modern submarine in the Royal Navy.

Education Summary​

Anyone here thinks that 'hand-in-coat' Zalinski and 'no-known-education' Holland knew how to build submarines? The youngest Civil War officer and the 'father of the modern submarine'... talents like these were all over the place back than, so... nothing special here.

Holland IV Sub aka Zalinski Boat​

Zalinski also helped John Philip Holland raise money for the development of one of his submarines, which was armed with one of Zalinski's pneumatic guns. The two men having formed the Nautilus Submarine Boat Company, started working on a new submarine in 1884. The so-called "Zalinsky boat" was constructed in Hendrick's Reef (former Fort Lafayette), Bay Ridge in the New York City borough of Brooklyn.

• May be Fort Lafayette had something to do with the emergence of this sub. I don't know, like in... that's where they found it, repaired, and launched?​

Links for the sub: #1, #2, #3

...this is construction process...

"The new, cigar-shaped submarine was 50 feet long with a maximum beam of eight feet. To save money, the hull was largely of wood, framed with iron hoops, and again, a Brayton-cycle engine provided motive power."

• The project was plagued by a "shoestring budget" and Zalinski mostly rejecting Holland's ideas on improvements.​
• The submarine was ready for launching in September, 1885. ​
• "During the launching itself, a section of the ways collapsed under the weight of the boat, dashing the hull against some pilings and staving in the bottom.​
  • !!!: Memorize the "collapsed" part.​
• 
  
• Although the submarine was repaired and eventually carried out several trial runs in lower New York Harbor, by the end of 1886 the Nautilus Submarine Boat Company was no more, and the salvageable remnants of the Zalinski Boat were sold to reimburse the disappointed investors." ​
• Meanwhile, somewhere in France...​

French submarine Gymnote​

Gymnote was one of the world's first all-electric submarines and the first functional submarine equipped with torpedoes. Launched on 24 September 1888, she was developed in France following early experiments by Henri Dupuy de Lôme, and, after his death, by Gustave Zédé and Arthur Krebs, who completed the project. For Gymnote, Arthur Krebs developed the electric engine, the first naval periscope and the first naval electric gyrocompass.

Link: French submarine Gymnote (Q1) - Wikipedia

• The keel was laid on 20 April 1887.
• Trials began on 17 November 1888.
• The submarine was built with a steel single hull, a detachable lead keel, and three hydroplanes on each side.
• She made over 2,000 dives, using 204 cell batteries.
• She was armed with two 355 mm (14 in) torpedoes.
• Gymnote was partly inspired by the earlier development of the submarine Plongeur, the world's first mechanically powered submarine.
• Gymnote was damaged on 5 March 1907 when she ran aground.
  • The boat was drydocked but a hatch was left open while the dock was being filled, allowing her to flood and sink on 19 June 1907.
  • Repairs were considered too expensive so she was sold for scrap in 1911.

Side by Side​

I don't know but this stuff is weird. One was made in 1885, the other one was ready for launch in 1888. One was wood, the other one was steel. Both ended their existence with some B-rated story. Both look like they could be twin sisters., but they are not apparently.

Collapsed what?


​

KD: There are so many 1880-1900 subs out there, it's not even funny. Most of them have some weird details in their bios. Anyways, these are probably two different models, but one has to love the visual synchronicity.

And this fifteen year old Civil War Lieutenant Edmund Zalinski... is this even for real?

source + source (art)

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[AthroposRex]

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Username: AnthroposRex
Date: 2019-10-27 12:26:08
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It's like someone found a bunch of pictures amongst the wreckage and just made our history up. Everytime they get stuck on plot holes they pull a deus ex machina with a convenient child prodigy.
If those aren't the same boat, it might have been a common style that was found in different cataclysmic wreckage half a world away. It's hard to believe the official stories anymore.

 

[Archive]

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Username: jd755
Date: 2019-10-27 13:40:50
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The elephant in the room is civil war US images, photographs, tech, tents, guns, uniforms, military hierarchy, government hierarchy, constructions, tents, etc are interchangeable with their French counterparts.
Who bought a US ironclad/
Whose architects of the era were 'educated' in the French Beaux Arts style and school in Paris?
Who designed and built the statue of Liberty/
Whose navy carried the thing over to New York?
Which 'side' in the civil war did the French support overtly and surreptitiously?
The connections are legion.

 

[Archive]

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Username: BrokenAgate
Date: 2019-10-27 15:15:11
Reaction Score: 1

I've heard numerous stories about kids who lied about their age and signed up with the army. Seems to happen in every war...or, rather, all the wars that happened way back in the past, where we can't verify anything. You don't hear about 14-year-olds joining ranks with the American forces in, say, Afghanistan, in modern times. But maybe that's because there are better ways of proving a recruit's age.

At any rate, I doubt that there are very many middle school dropouts who could not only fake their age to join the army, but also have the genius to create the torpedo gun. That is some very high-tech stuff right there. Where is the factory that built it? Or did they just bang it out of scrap metal on the field?

 

[Archive]

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Username: jd755
Date: 2019-10-27 16:17:24
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Using google translate submarine gymote becomes gymnote sous-marine
Using startpage image search it found this;
Gymnote - 1888

Here's the google translate version of that page; Gymnote - 1888

InEenglish it's name is gymnasium, how odd. And is a bit of a shape shifter if the photographs on that site are any clue.

At the bottom of the page is a link to this site; http://rbmn.waika9.com/Krebs_Note_Gymnote_1979.html
Which is a dead link so over to the waybackmachine which has 28 captures up to 2009; GYMNOTE : premier sous-marin moderne du monde 1886-1911

Putting that into google translate gets this dating from 2000;
Google Translate

It was made of steel not bronze. Apologies if I'm getting the boats mixed up.
- Built in Toulon at the arsenal of Mourillon
- Ordered November 22, 1886
- Started on April 20, 1887
- Baptized on January 31, 1888
- Launched on September 24, 1888 at 10:00 am by Admiral Bergasse du Petit-Thouars
- First test at sea: November 17, 1888 (harbor of Toulon)
- Returned on hold for conversion on January 6, 1897
- Completion of the transformations on January 4, 1900
- First definitive armament on May 1, 1900.
-----
- Hull in thin steel sheets, circular section (extended by 0 m 60 by the addition of a ferrule in the middle)
- Thickness of the shell: 6 mm and 4 mm at the ends
- Movement: 30/31 T (30 T 9 in dive position)
- Dimensions:. Overall length 17 m 60
. Length of the hull between
point-to-point tips 17 m 20
. Width 1 m 80
. Draft 1 m 68 (mid draft in
1899), in diving position 2 m 80
- Diameter of the master torque: 1 m 80
- Propulsion: Engine apparatus, originally an engine
multipole electric (16) type Krebs 51 HP (Company of Forges and Chantiers du Hâvre). Then replaced by a Sautter-Harle electric DC motor, with a maximum power of 90 HP developed at 200 V (electric motor set on the shaft of the propeller) and electric accumulators.
- Accumulators: Primarily 564 accumulators with a capacity of 93 million kilograms with alkaline liquid system Commelin and Desmazures, which was substituted in 1894, 200 accumulators system Laurent-Coly. Finally, in 1897/1899, 100 new type batteries of the Society for Metalworking were installed.
- Propeller: A propeller with 2 independent orientable wings and 4 branches in bronze of 0.900 in diameter (Maugas engineer system).
- Speed: 7 knots 31 and 4 knots 27 on the surface (1900). In 1899 under water with 0 m 50 of water above the kiosk and a voltage of 200 V, speed of 3 knots 56.
- Range of action: 31 nautical at 7 knots 3 and 25 nautical at 4 knots 27.
- Apparatus of vision: First a device with 2 mirrors telescope of vision bent, then in December 1889 a periscope, then a device Mangin system. In 1898 a Daveluy and Violette apparatus with sliding tube of 3 m 50.
- Rudders: Horizontal direction provided by a horizontal rudder and a vertical rudder, placed on the front of the propeller exactly like a car torpedo.
- Steering apparatus: An ordinary compensated compass, replaced by an electric gyroscope in 1889
- Ailerons: central flaps Darrieux 1893 system and rear wing Leflaive system in 1895.
- Security devices: Security pombs, placed in wells, on each side.
- Kiosk helmet called "telescope".
- Lighting: Interior illuminated by incandescent lamps.
- Armament: No military equipment originally. In 1899 installation of two outdoor devices with claws sliding torpedo carrier, Terrien system, located port and starboard through the helmet. Two 356 mm (model 1887) torpedoes normally launched at a distance of 400 meters at a speed of 27 knots (Drezwiecki launch device).

- In the upper part was a narrow platform on which was manhole of 0 m 45 for the introduction of the crew. In the center a small dome provided with mirrors and reflectors. An electric servo motor was used to govern all the vision stations; a special probe lead was used to measure the depths.

- Crew: An officer and two second-masters, two quartermasters, two certificated sailors (specialties mechanic and torpedo)

- Plans of the Director of Naval Constructions Gustave Zédé on projects of engineer Dupuy de Lome and Amiral Bourgeois. Construction directed and followed by the engineer of the Maritime Engineering Gaston Romazotti. Electrical part of Captain Krebs, engineer of the Paris Fire Brigade. The plans were approved by Admiral Aube .
NOTE : The GYMNOTE is the true ancestor of all modern submarines; he is indeed the first who has been able to sail under water at a constant immersion and to go exactly from one point to another point indicated in advance.
Its characteristics were profoundly modified between 1888 and 1898, after a series of military and technical experiments.
He was above all an experimental submarine. It made it possible to ask and to elucidate the many theoretical and practical problems raised by diving navigation; problems that had never received appropriate solutions before.
It was of mediocre military value because of its small size, low armament and inability to move more than 10 miles off the coast, but it had remarkable nautical qualities in terms of its ease of immersion and maneuvering.
Excellent training and training building for submarine personnel.

Ha! Wouldn't you know it the link to the sites homepage works and it has a Union Jack on it which tuns the site ioto Enlish1
KREBS - Documents in English

 

[JimDuyer]

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Username: Jim Duyer
Date: 2019-11-02 16:54:57
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Using google translate submarine gymote becomes gymnote sous-marine
Using startpage image search it found this;
Gymnote - 1888

Here's the google translate version of that page; Gymnote - 1888

InEenglish it's name is gymnasium, how odd. And is a bit of a shape shifter if the photographs on that site are any clue.

At the bottom of the page is a link to this site; http://rbmn.waika9.com/Krebs_Note_Gymnote_1979.html
Which is a dead link so over to the waybackmachine which has 28 captures up to 2009; GYMNOTE : premier sous-marin moderne du monde 1886-1911

Putting that into google translate gets this dating from 2000;
Google Translate

It was made of steel not bronze. Apologies if I'm getting the boats mixed up.
- Built in Toulon at the arsenal of Mourillon
- Ordered November 22, 1886
- Started on April 20, 1887
- Baptized on January 31, 1888
- Launched on September 24, 1888 at 10:00 am by Admiral Bergasse du Petit-Thouars
- First test at sea: November 17, 1888 (harbor of Toulon)
- Returned on hold for conversion on January 6, 1897
- Completion of the transformations on January 4, 1900
- First definitive armament on May 1, 1900.
-----
- Hull in thin steel sheets, circular section (extended by 0 m 60 by the addition of a ferrule in the middle)
- Thickness of the shell: 6 mm and 4 mm at the ends
- Movement: 30/31 T (30 T 9 in dive position)
- Dimensions:. Overall length 17 m 60
. Length of the hull between
point-to-point tips 17 m 20
. Width 1 m 80
. Draft 1 m 68 (mid draft in
1899), in diving position 2 m 80
- Diameter of the master torque: 1 m 80
- Propulsion: Engine apparatus, originally an engine
multipole electric (16) type Krebs 51 HP (Company of Forges and Chantiers du Hâvre). Then replaced by a Sautter-Harle electric DC motor, with a maximum power of 90 HP developed at 200 V (electric motor set on the shaft of the propeller) and electric accumulators.
- Accumulators: Primarily 564 accumulators with a capacity of 93 million kilograms with alkaline liquid system Commelin and Desmazures, which was substituted in 1894, 200 accumulators system Laurent-Coly. Finally, in 1897/1899, 100 new type batteries of the Society for Metalworking were installed.
- Propeller: A propeller with 2 independent orientable wings and 4 branches in bronze of 0.900 in diameter (Maugas engineer system).
- Speed: 7 knots 31 and 4 knots 27 on the surface (1900). In 1899 under water with 0 m 50 of water above the kiosk and a voltage of 200 V, speed of 3 knots 56.
- Range of action: 31 nautical at 7 knots 3 and 25 nautical at 4 knots 27.
- Apparatus of vision: First a device with 2 mirrors telescope of vision bent, then in December 1889 a periscope, then a device Mangin system. In 1898 a Daveluy and Violette apparatus with sliding tube of 3 m 50.
- Rudders: Horizontal direction provided by a horizontal rudder and a vertical rudder, placed on the front of the propeller exactly like a car torpedo.
- Steering apparatus: An ordinary compensated compass, replaced by an electric gyroscope in 1889
- Ailerons: central flaps Darrieux 1893 system and rear wing Leflaive system in 1895.
- Security devices: Security pombs, placed in wells, on each side.
- Kiosk helmet called "telescope".
- Lighting: Interior illuminated by incandescent lamps.
- Armament: No military equipment originally. In 1899 installation of two outdoor devices with claws sliding torpedo carrier, Terrien system, located port and starboard through the helmet. Two 356 mm (model 1887) torpedoes normally launched at a distance of 400 meters at a speed of 27 knots (Drezwiecki launch device).

- In the upper part was a narrow platform on which was manhole of 0 m 45 for the introduction of the crew. In the center a small dome provided with mirrors and reflectors. An electric servo motor was used to govern all the vision stations; a special probe lead was used to measure the depths.

- Crew: An officer and two second-masters, two quartermasters, two certificated sailors (specialties mechanic and torpedo)

- Plans of the Director of Naval Constructions Gustave Zédé on projects of engineer Dupuy de Lome and Amiral Bourgeois. Construction directed and followed by the engineer of the Maritime Engineering Gaston Romazotti. Electrical part of Captain Krebs, engineer of the Paris Fire Brigade. The plans were approved by Admiral Aube .
NOTE : The GYMNOTE is the true ancestor of all modern submarines; he is indeed the first who has been able to sail under water at a constant immersion and to go exactly from one point to another point indicated in advance.
Its characteristics were profoundly modified between 1888 and 1898, after a series of military and technical experiments.
He was above all an experimental submarine. It made it possible to ask and to elucidate the many theoretical and practical problems raised by diving navigation; problems that had never received appropriate solutions before.
It was of mediocre military value because of its small size, low armament and inability to move more than 10 miles off the coast, but it had remarkable nautical qualities in terms of its ease of immersion and maneuvering.
Excellent training and training building for submarine personnel.

Ha! Wouldn't you know it the link to the sites homepage works and it has a Union Jack on it which tuns the site ioto Enlish1
KREBS - Documents in English

I went to the page in French, and under the image it says
Le Gymnote et son Equipage. Equipage meant equipment not crew.
Today it means luggage. WTF?

Post automatically merged: 11/2/19

I went to the page in French, and under the image it says
Le Gymnote et son Equipage. Equipage meant equipment not crew.
Today it means luggage. WTF?

• n Gymnotus jĭm*nō"tŭs (Zoöl) A genus of South American fresh-water fishes, including the Gymnotus electricus, or electric eel. It has a greenish, eel-like body, and is possessed of electric power. "One fearful shock, fearful but momentary, like that from the electric blow of the gymnotus ."

So at least the name makes some kind of sense, if nothing else.

Post automatically merged: 11/2/19

Here's how you come up with a phantom submarine to fool the kiddies:
You just take a picture of a torpedo, and call it a submarine. This is the
1880 version of one, and it looks very close to one of the pictures on your
French submarine page: (Although which submarine would be large enough
to carry and deploy that size torpedo is left to our imaginations)

 

[wizz33]

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Username: wizz33
Date: 2019-11-05 12:14:06
Reaction Score: 1

I went to the page in French, and under the image it says
Le Gymnote et son Equipage. Equipage meant equipment not crew.
Today it means luggage. WTF?

Post automatically merged: 11/2/19

• n Gymnotus jĭm*nō"tŭs (Zoöl) A genus of South American fresh-water fishes, including the Gymnotus electricus, or electric eel. It has a greenish, eel-like body, and is possessed of electric power. "One fearful shock, fearful but momentary, like that from the electric blow of the gymnotus ."

So at least the name makes some kind of sense, if nothing else.

Post automatically merged: 11/2/19

Here's how you come up with a phantom submarine to fool the kiddies:
You just take a picture of a torpedo, and call it a submarine. This is the
1880 version of one, and it looks very close to one of the pictures on your
French submarine page: (Although which submarine would be large enough
to carry and deploy that size torpedo is left to our imaginations)

that in not a torpedo
it more in common with a fighter fuel tank or a deep-water motion powered instrument