Objective Evidence for the God of Scripture?

[Duel]

I generally don't like tearing down anyone's belief system because it's usually nothing more than an exercise in ego but since you asked here is a link that provides one possible explanation.

https://www.selfpublishingreview.co...nity-a-weapon-of-ancient-rome-by-henry-davis/

Another theorized take on early Christianity is it was created by jews (Paul/Saul) to undermine the Roman empire as jews were at war with Rome. In many ways it's a master/slave religion creating submissive and easily manipulated people by promising a better afterlife if one suffers through whatever hell the masters are doling out in this life.

To play devils advocate, lets assume ELS message are encoded in the bible. God foretelling something like the twin towers collapsing (for example) in a bible code necessitates a predetermined outcome.

How is it that I'm to learn anything in this life via my free will if my every action is predetermined? I can't because I'm nothing more than a robot, doing God's preordained will. A Godbot if you will.

In that's how this universe works, I want my money back.

1: The ELS codes involving 'predicting the twin towers collapsing' is absolute nonsense and I have yet to see a single shred of evidence to support it. I am referring to ELS codes that clarify or expound upon verses. The ELS codes are not some secret way of predicting the future or something bs like that, but hidden messages placed there to strengthen the faith of believers and to be a possible proof for God.
2: From my understanding, God is all-powerful and outside of time. Because of this, He already knows what we are going to do. This does not mean we don't have free will, it just means we are really predictable to an all-powerful being. To say this means we don't have free will is the same as saying that because modern supercomputers can crack AES 256-bit encryption, encryption is worthless. God lets us have free will. but that does not mean He doesn't know what is going to happen through that free will.

 

[InchoateTulpa]

1: The ELS codes involving 'predicting the twin towers collapsing' is absolute nonsense and I have yet to see a single shred of evidence to support it. I am referring to ELS codes that clarify or expound upon verses. The ELS codes are not some secret way of predicting the future or something bs like that, but hidden messages placed there to strengthen the faith of believers and to be a possible proof for God.
2: From my understanding, God is all-powerful and outside of time. Because of this, He already knows what we are going to do. This does not mean we don't have free will, it just means we are really predictable to an all-powerful being. To say this means we don't have free will is the same as saying that because modern supercomputers can crack AES 256-bit encryption, encryption is worthless. God lets us have free will. but that does not mean He doesn't know what is going to happen through that free will.

God knowing what its creation will do is absolutely the definition of predetermination. By virtue of it knowing, events MUST follow accordingly. There is no free will left.

IMHO God is not something you can even name, never mind understand. Wrap your intellect around infinity (you can't) which is akin to discussing God. It's something that is imbued in all of creation but also something that doesn't know of itself. Humans are created with an ego that needs to be uprooted if we are to "see" God. In other words God coming to know of itself, it being pure awareness and not a self referential system.

Thinking it (reference to God is "it" in my lexicon because it contains both the divine masculine and divine feminine) is so small minded that it put codes in the bible (a group of books arbitrarily chosen by men) to "prove" its existence is like imagining you've wrapped you mind around and corralled infinity.

What I'm saying is God (whatever it is) is beyond anything you can think. Believing codes are planted in the bible to satiate the mystery of existence is equivalent to a belief in Santa Claus. You can't think your way to God - you can only experience God by ego annihilation. Just my 2 cents.

 

[CatELyst]

The only differences between a 'religion' and a 'cult' are the number of 'believers' and -- marketing.

And it never occurred to you that these things happened because of what you did; because of your effort and work?

I gave myself a few days to mull over your comments here. The first thing that stands out to me is your rather aggressive response...as if my TRUTH offended you somehow. Bottom line, dude...it's my truth, my life, my testimony. You weren't there when my mother put my clothes in paper sacks and kicked me out of the house because her then-husband said I wasn't good enough to be his daughter. I was seven. He was a drunk, an abuser, a wife-beater, and (being her 3rd husband so far) made several attempts to kill my siblings and myself.

You're literally proving here that what a lot of us know about followers of the 'bible' already: it makes you weak, and it keeps you weak.

Let me correct you: I don't follow the Bible. It is a source, a tool, but not WHO I have my relationship with. That book wasn't there when I was seven and didn't save my life either. It didn't push me up the other side of a frozen gully that I had fallen into, it didn't dry my soaking wet frozen clothes, and it didn't clear a path in the snow to the next ranch where I found safety. That book wasn't the song that the rancher heard being sung in that dark frozen night that lead him to me in the cattle field. The Bible didn't tell him to wrap me in a blanket, carry me into his house and cry over me while he rocked me to sleep.

God was.

You can call Him anything you want. I call Him Rescuer, Savior and Lord. When I asked Him why that man had said I wasn't good enough to be his daughter, the Lord replied, "Because you are Mine."

I am not weak. I used to be...a big coward, bullied all the time, beaten, frightened, scared of my own shadow. But the Lord kept talking to me, kept telling me I was strong, smart, that I could do amazing things. I didn't believe Him at first because the people that were supposed to give a crap about me didn't, and they kept saying I was horrible, a loser, would never amount to much, blah blah blah.

"When will you believe who I say you are?" THIS is what saved my life as an adult. It got me out of an abusive marriage, away from toxic family members, and free. Free, Strong and doing amazing things with my life now!

If I had not heard the Voice of God, I would never had escaped that abusive, toxic culture of control. And I WAS strong! I CHOSE to believe who God says I am. I CHOSE to walk away from the abusers. I CHOSE my own path of TRUTH.

The only 'people' that I have ever heard speak like this have names that end in -stein, -burg, etc..

And as for your final statement about my last name likely being -stein or -berg....you showed how narrow minded and uneducated you have chosen to be, not to mention how apparently angry you are over whatever hurt. Who is being weak now? Who is letting their hurt OWN them and force their life choices, instead of being free from stereotypes and believe systems based on lies?

Lastly, you wrote your comments as if your opinion has some validity. I don't know you...you aren't a part of my life, or my journey. Therefore your opinion doesn't matter. Please consider that the next time you try to vomit your negativity and narrow-minded judgmental nonsense on someone's post.

It really is difficult to let go of. Truly it is. That's what happens when the people that are supposed to love you the most spend the first 15-20 years of your life telling you to 'believe in this horseshit or burn in eternal literal hellfire'.

It's total psychological abuse on a nuclear scale.

Well at least you understand that part.

WIll is all. Faith is strong as well - but only when applied to ones fellow man. Faith applied to 'religion' or 'spirituality' is totally and completely hollow.

This reads as if you are saying we are supposed to have faith in our fellow man? Did you not just prove my point about how my "fellow man" was an abusive POS that didn't care about me? That my own mother abandoned me? That NO human in my life has EVER done any more for me aside from abuse, use and condemn me?

I will put my faith in the Creator, the One who made me, Who knows me better than anyone else. The rest of humanity can walk their own path. I will not be following them.

God knowing what its creation will do is absolutely the definition of predetermination. By virtue of it knowing, events MUST follow accordingly. There is no free will left.

IMHO God is not something you can even name, never mind understand. Wrap your intellect around infinity (you can't) which is akin to discussing God. It's something that is imbued in all of creation but also something that doesn't know of itself. Humans are created with an ego that needs to be uprooted if we are to "see" God. In other words God coming to know of itself, it being pure awareness and not a self referential system.

Thinking it (reference to God is "it" in my lexicon because it contains both the divine masculine and divine feminine) is so small minded that it put codes in the bible (a group of books arbitrarily chosen by men) to "prove" its existence is like imagining you've wrapped you mind around and corralled infinity.

What I'm saying is God (whatever it is) is beyond anything you can think. Believing codes are planted in the bible to satiate the mystery of existence is equivalent to a belief in Santa Claus. You can't think your way to God - you can only experience God by ego annihilation. Just my 2 cents.

Genesis 1:26 And God said: 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..."

God's pronouns are "They, Them, We, Us, and Our"

We are made in God's image, not the other way around. So applying our knowledge, our limits to the Creator of the Universe is absurd. And because He is God, the Creator of all things, He can do anything He wants....including put clues in a book for someone to find that will strengthen their faith, lead them to TRUTH and give them a thirst for more! It is man that is limited by his own bias and prejudice, his own limited education. Every man is different. God is the same...yesterday, today, forever and always.

 

[InchoateTulpa]

I gave myself a few days to mull over your comments here. The first thing that stands out to me is your rather aggressive response...as if my TRUTH offended you somehow. Bottom line, dude...it's my truth, my life, my testimony. You weren't there when my mother put my clothes in paper sacks and kicked me out of the house because her then-husband said I wasn't good enough to be his daughter. I was seven. He was a drunk, an abuser, a wife-beater, and (being her 3rd husband so far) made several attempts to kill my siblings and myself.

Let me correct you: I don't follow the Bible. It is a source, a tool, but not WHO I have my relationship with. That book wasn't there when I was seven and didn't save my life either. It didn't push me up the other side of a frozen gully that I had fallen into, it didn't dry my soaking wet frozen clothes, and it didn't clear a path in the snow to the next ranch where I found safety. That book wasn't the song that the rancher heard being sung in that dark frozen night that lead him to me in the cattle field. The Bible didn't tell him to wrap me in a blanket, carry me into his house and cry over me while he rocked me to sleep.

God was.

You can call Him anything you want. I call Him Rescuer, Savior and Lord. When I asked Him why that man had said I wasn't good enough to be his daughter, the Lord replied, "Because you are Mine."

I am not weak. I used to be...a big coward, bullied all the time, beaten, frightened, scared of my own shadow. But the Lord kept talking to me, kept telling me I was strong, smart, that I could do amazing things. I didn't believe Him at first because the people that were supposed to give a crap about me didn't, and they kept saying I was horrible, a loser, would never amount to much, blah blah blah.

"When will you believe who I say you are?" THIS is what saved my life as an adult. It got me out of an abusive marriage, away from toxic family members, and free. Free, Strong and doing amazing things with my life now!

If I had not heard the Voice of God, I would never had escaped that abusive, toxic culture of control. And I WAS strong! I CHOSE to believe who God says I am. I CHOSE to walk away from the abusers. I CHOSE my own path of TRUTH.


And as for your final statement about my last name likely being -stein or -berg....you showed how narrow minded and uneducated you have chosen to be, not to mention how apparently angry you are over whatever hurt. Who is being weak now? Who is letting their hurt OWN them and force their life choices, instead of being free from stereotypes and believe systems based on lies?

Lastly, you wrote your comments as if your opinion has some validity. I don't know you...you aren't a part of my life, or my journey. Therefore your opinion doesn't matter. Please consider that the next time you try to vomit your negativity and narrow-minded judgmental nonsense on someone's post.

Well at least you understand that part.

This reads as if you are saying we are supposed to have faith in our fellow man? Did you not just prove my point about how my "fellow man" was an abusive POS that didn't care about me? That my own mother abandoned me? That NO human in my life has EVER done any more for me aside from abuse, use and condemn me?

I will put my faith in the Creator, the One who made me, Who knows me better than anyone else. The rest of humanity can walk their own path. I will not be following them.


Genesis 1:26 And God said: 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..."

God's pronouns are "They, Them, We, Us, and Our"

We are made in God's image, not the other way around. So applying our knowledge, our limits to the Creator of the Universe is absurd. And because He is God, the Creator of all things, He can do anything He wants....including put clues in a book for someone to find that will strengthen their faith, lead them to TRUTH and give them a thirst for more! It is man that is limited by his own bias and prejudice, his own limited education. Every man is different. God is the same...yesterday, today, forever and always.

I gave myself a few days to mull over your comments here. The first thing that stands out to me is your rather aggressive response...as if my TRUTH offended you somehow. Bottom line, dude...it's my truth, my life, my testimony. You weren't there when my mother put my clothes in paper sacks and kicked me out of the house because her then-husband said I wasn't good enough to be his daughter. I was seven. He was a drunk, an abuser, a wife-beater, and (being her 3rd husband so far) made several attempts to kill my siblings and myself.

Let me correct you: I don't follow the Bible. It is a source, a tool, but not WHO I have my relationship with. That book wasn't there when I was seven and didn't save my life either. It didn't push me up the other side of a frozen gully that I had fallen into, it didn't dry my soaking wet frozen clothes, and it didn't clear a path in the snow to the next ranch where I found safety. That book wasn't the song that the rancher heard being sung in that dark frozen night that lead him to me in the cattle field. The Bible didn't tell him to wrap me in a blanket, carry me into his house and cry over me while he rocked me to sleep.

God was.

You can call Him anything you want. I call Him Rescuer, Savior and Lord. When I asked Him why that man had said I wasn't good enough to be his daughter, the Lord replied, "Because you are Mine."

I am not weak. I used to be...a big coward, bullied all the time, beaten, frightened, scared of my own shadow. But the Lord kept talking to me, kept telling me I was strong, smart, that I could do amazing things. I didn't believe Him at first because the people that were supposed to give a crap about me didn't, and they kept saying I was horrible, a loser, would never amount to much, blah blah blah.

"When will you believe who I say you are?" THIS is what saved my life as an adult. It got me out of an abusive marriage, away from toxic family members, and free. Free, Strong and doing amazing things with my life now!

If I had not heard the Voice of God, I would never had escaped that abusive, toxic culture of control. And I WAS strong! I CHOSE to believe who God says I am. I CHOSE to walk away from the abusers. I CHOSE my own path of TRUTH.


And as for your final statement about my last name likely being -stein or -berg....you showed how narrow minded and uneducated you have chosen to be, not to mention how apparently angry you are over whatever hurt. Who is being weak now? Who is letting their hurt OWN them and force their life choices, instead of being free from stereotypes and believe systems based on lies?

Lastly, you wrote your comments as if your opinion has some validity. I don't know you...you aren't a part of my life, or my journey. Therefore your opinion doesn't matter. Please consider that the next time you try to vomit your negativity and narrow-minded judgmental nonsense on someone's post.

Well at least you understand that part.

This reads as if you are saying we are supposed to have faith in our fellow man? Did you not just prove my point about how my "fellow man" was an abusive POS that didn't care about me? That my own mother abandoned me? That NO human in my life has EVER done any more for me aside from abuse, use and condemn me?

I will put my faith in the Creator, the One who made me, Who knows me better than anyone else. The rest of humanity can walk their own path. I will not be following them.


Genesis 1:26 And God said: 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..."

God's pronouns are "They, Them, We, Us, and Our"

We are made in God's image, not the other way around. So applying our knowledge, our limits to the Creator of the Universe is absurd. And because He is God, the Creator of all things, He can do anything He wants....including put clues in a book for someone to find that will strengthen their faith, lead them to TRUTH and give them a thirst for more! It is man that is limited by his own bias and prejudice, his own limited education. Every man is different. God is the same...yesterday, today, forever and always.

I guess it lies in how we interpret things. I'm partial to Buddhism, which posits that the ground of being is emptiness. My own limited experience suggests that is true.

Man being made in God's image means the ground of our being is a reflection of God's being which is void/emptiness. But then what do I know? Lol.

I gave myself a few days to mull over your comments here. The first thing that stands out to me is your rather aggressive response...as if my TRUTH offended you somehow. Bottom line, dude...it's my truth, my life, my testimony. You weren't there when my mother put my clothes in paper sacks and kicked me out of the house because her then-husband said I wasn't good enough to be his daughter. I was seven. He was a drunk, an abuser, a wife-beater, and (being her 3rd husband so far) made several attempts to kill my siblings and myself.

Let me correct you: I don't follow the Bible. It is a source, a tool, but not WHO I have my relationship with. That book wasn't there when I was seven and didn't save my life either. It didn't push me up the other side of a frozen gully that I had fallen into, it didn't dry my soaking wet frozen clothes, and it didn't clear a path in the snow to the next ranch where I found safety. That book wasn't the song that the rancher heard being sung in that dark frozen night that lead him to me in the cattle field. The Bible didn't tell him to wrap me in a blanket, carry me into his house and cry over me while he rocked me to sleep.

God was.

You can call Him anything you want. I call Him Rescuer, Savior and Lord. When I asked Him why that man had said I wasn't good enough to be his daughter, the Lord replied, "Because you are Mine."

I am not weak. I used to be...a big coward, bullied all the time, beaten, frightened, scared of my own shadow. But the Lord kept talking to me, kept telling me I was strong, smart, that I could do amazing things. I didn't believe Him at first because the people that were supposed to give a crap about me didn't, and they kept saying I was horrible, a loser, would never amount to much, blah blah blah.

"When will you believe who I say you are?" THIS is what saved my life as an adult. It got me out of an abusive marriage, away from toxic family members, and free. Free, Strong and doing amazing things with my life now!

If I had not heard the Voice of God, I would never had escaped that abusive, toxic culture of control. And I WAS strong! I CHOSE to believe who God says I am. I CHOSE to walk away from the abusers. I CHOSE my own path of TRUTH.


And as for your final statement about my last name likely being -stein or -berg....you showed how narrow minded and uneducated you have chosen to be, not to mention how apparently angry you are over whatever hurt. Who is being weak now? Who is letting their hurt OWN them and force their life choices, instead of being free from stereotypes and believe systems based on lies?

Lastly, you wrote your comments as if your opinion has some validity. I don't know you...you aren't a part of my life, or my journey. Therefore your opinion doesn't matter. Please consider that the next time you try to vomit your negativity and narrow-minded judgmental nonsense on someone's post.

Well at least you understand that part.

This reads as if you are saying we are supposed to have faith in our fellow man? Did you not just prove my point about how my "fellow man" was an abusive POS that didn't care about me? That my own mother abandoned me? That NO human in my life has EVER done any more for me aside from abuse, use and condemn me?

I will put my faith in the Creator, the One who made me, Who knows me better than anyone else. The rest of humanity can walk their own path. I will not be following them.


Genesis 1:26 And God said: 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..."

God's pronouns are "They, Them, We, Us, and Our"

We are made in God's image, not the other way around. So applying our knowledge, our limits to the Creator of the Universe is absurd. And because He is God, the Creator of all things, He can do anything He wants....including put clues in a book for someone to find that will strengthen their faith, lead them to TRUTH and give them a thirst for more! It is man that is limited by his own bias and prejudice, his own limited education. Every man is different. God is the same...yesterday, today, forever and always.

I guess it lies in how we interpret/understand things. I'm partial to Buddhism, which posits that the ground of our being is emptiness which implies the ground of God's being is emptiness. Admittedly that's an mystical/esoteric take on things, though my personal existential struggles drew me to that conclusion.

So man is made in God's image which means the ground of man's being is a reflection of God's being which is void/emptiness.

TBH, I wish I could experience the God I feebly attempt to imagine but for now I'm left with conceptualizing what I believe "being" is. All of this is another way of saying that ego death is what is meant by the bible verse referring to God that states "for no one shall see me and live".

 

[jonathan24]

1: The ELS codes involving 'predicting the twin towers collapsing' is absolute nonsense and I have yet to see a single shred of evidence to support it. I am referring to ELS codes that clarify or expound upon verses. The ELS codes are not some secret way of predicting the future or something bs like that, but hidden messages placed there to strengthen the faith of believers and to be a possible proof for God.
2: From my understanding, God is all-powerful and outside of time. Because of this, He already knows what we are going to do. This does not mean we don't have free will, it just means we are really predictable to an all-powerful being. To say this means we don't have free will is the same as saying that because modern supercomputers can crack AES 256-bit encryption, encryption is worthless. God lets us have free will. but that does not mean He doesn't know what is going to happen through that free will.

God created everything in this realm/dimension in the only possible way where love can exist, love can not be taken by anyone or anything, love can only be acquired when it is given freely. God gave us the freedom to experience love & He also wants to be loved ,He wants to be chosen to receive love and also give love freely & because He gave us free will , He does not know what we wil do ,He knows everything except our choices that come from having free will. We are not predictable ,if we where then why bother with creation what would be the point then.

 

[Feck]

I wonder if you were to follow scripture you could find GOD.
lets look at what is promoted as the most accurate version of the bible ever...

New American Bible

Psalm 48

The Beauty And Glory Of Zion.​

Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised,
In the city of our God, His holy mountain.
Beautiful in elevation, the joy of the whole earth,
Is Mount Zion in the far north,
The city of the great King.
God, in her palaces,
Has made Himself known as a stronghold.
For, lo, the kings assembled themselves,
They passed by together.
They saw it, then they were amazed;
They were terrified, they fled in alarm.
Panic seized them there,
Anguish, as of a woman in childbirth.
With the east wind
You break the ships of Tarshish.
As we have heard, so have we seen
In the city of the LORD of hosts, in the city of our God;
God will establish her forever. Selah.
We have thought on Your lovingkindness, O God,
In the midst of Your temple.
As is Your name, O God,
So is Your praise to the ends of the earth;
Your right hand is full of righteousness.
Let Mount Zion be glad,
Let the daughters of Judah rejoice
Because of Your judgments.
Walk about Zion and go around her;
Count her towers;
Consider her ramparts;
Go through her palaces,
That you may tell it to the next generation.
For such is God,
Our God forever and ever;
He will guide us until death.


so lets find Zion as we are supposed to according to scripture... that would prove GOD was real...
as dogma says...
-God, our Creator and Lord, can be known with certainty, by the natural light of reason from created things.
-God keeps all created things in existence.
-God through His providence protects and guides all that He has created

its sooo easy to find. that was GOD's intention... for it to be easy to find Zion at the appropriate time.... which is now.

peace
hope you want to know where Zion is...

 

[Code For Faith]

Let me correct you: I don't follow the Bible. It is a source, a tool, but not WHO I have my relationship with. That book wasn't there when I was seven and didn't save my life either. It didn't push me up the other side of a frozen gully that I had fallen into, it didn't dry my soaking wet frozen clothes, and it didn't clear a path in the snow to the next ranch where I found safety. That book wasn't the song that the rancher heard being sung in that dark frozen night that lead him to me in the cattle field. The Bible didn't tell him to wrap me in a blanket, carry me into his house and cry over me while he rocked me to sleep.

God was.

When I read this, the Holy Spirit fell strongly on me. Everything she said is true. May God bless you sister.

In my twenties, I began attending church...and found a lot of nonsense. Scripture used to oppress women into being nothing more than unpaid hookers, black labs, and maids. Husbands and fathers were given all the rights, while wives and daughters were taught "obey" "submit" or God would strike us with lightening, close our wombs, burn down our houses, and give our husbands' permission to cheat on us.

I don't attend church neither. And I'm sorry you suffered so much from those wicked people.
The Bible actually teaches that, yes wives have to respect / submit to their own husbands, but also that husbands have to love their wives as themselves.

"Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband." Ephesians 5:33

For more context, you can read Ephesians 5:22-33.

The Bible also teaches against adultery. Jesus said that if you simply lust for someone, it's already as bad as having committed the act in the eyes of God. And that those that do such things will go to Hell.

"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell." Matthew 5:27-30

 

[0xUnified]

While my account is relatively new, I have been browsing these forums as a guest for about a year now. The people of this esteemed community are the most open-minded I have ever met, and that is more refreshing then you can believe. While each person has their own opinions on the various subjects discussed on these forums, the entire community is generally willing to admit when they are wrong. That is so rare for an individual, and it is even more rare for an entire community. To the entirety of Stolen History, I just want to thank you for being what you are and helping to find the truth in the world around us. While I disagree with much that is posted here, I can always expect to find people who genuinely want to find the truth, whatever that may be. Now for the actual contents of this post.

I can be considered something akin to a 'Christian', though I utterly reject that term. I believe in Christ, but I despise the form Christianity has taken over the course of it's history. The Church is supposed to stand for truth, and yet it has lost itself to blind dogma. They have stopped looking for the truth and would rather mindlessly believe what is fed to them, and I absolutely reject that way of thinking. I want the truth, not delusions, and I don't care whether the truth agrees with my preconceived opinions or not. That said, I think evidence is out there for Him in the Word. Now, we don't know what can be considered the Word, but that is for another post.

While researching for this evidence, I came across an article from Behold the Stone titled ELS Bible Codes: A Brief Introduction talking about Equidistant Letter Sequencing (ELS) codes that are in Scripture. I sadly can't link it directly since this is my first post. The idea is that by taking certain sequences of the original Hebrew/Greek letters, we can decode messages left by Him in order to further guide us. Now, I don't agree with a lot of the information people have put out about these codes, such as the delusional idea that secret messages in the English text predicted Bin Laden. It is much more logical to use the original sources, or else we will lose any consistency. A simplistic example of these ELS codes can be seen in Psalms 69:30.

View attachment 21528​

A more complicated example can be seen in Genesis 22:7-9, where a message proclaiming the name Yahusha/Jesus as perfect can be read.

View attachment 21529​

I have been able to partially verify these verses specifically, and they are very promising. I can't scan Scripture on my own using a program because my laptop, the only device I can consistently access at the moment, is a potato that can only barely run the stripped-down web browser I use. If anyone with the time and resources could dig into this, that would be great! If this is true, then it would prove divine influence on Scripture, and by extension, God Himself.

I can't comment on the secret code; I'm not aware of such a thing, and I think it may take up more of your time and attention than it's worth - but perhaps there's something to it. If you feel drawn to it, then follow your heart. You'll know whether it's right, in time.

The truth can be known - and is, by many - but can't be proved to another. This doesn't diminish it as a thing that's known, and there's a way to confirm if you, yourself, know, it whether you just wish to know.

Do you remember magic eye posters? Say that you and I are looking at one, and I know the trick to seeing the hidden image, but you do not.
If I say to you, "there is a sailboat", but you, yourself cannot see it, you may think I'm wrong, but I know that I'm right. I can't prove to you that you're wrong in thinking I'm wrong, but I know without a doubt that you can never prove to me that I'm wrong and you're right, because I know what it is I see; I see it with my own eyes.

 

[Code For Faith]

The truth can be known - and is, by many - but can't be proved to another.

2 + 2 = 4. That's true, and I can prove it to you.

Do you remember magic eye posters? Say that you and I are looking at one, and I know the trick to seeing the hidden image, but you do not.
If I say to you, "there is a sailboat", but you, yourself cannot see it, you may think I'm wrong, but I know that I'm right. I can't prove to you that you're wrong in thinking I'm wrong, but I know without a doubt that you can never prove to me that I'm wrong and you're right, because I know what it is I see; I see it with my own eyes.

The fact that a blind man can't see the sky doesn't mean that truth in unknowable. It simply means that blind men can't see.
Yes, our perception of reality is imperfect and it can lead to confusion. So our only escape is to have the truth told to us by Someone who has a perfect perception of reality. That Person is God.

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6

 

[Lee_Magee]

None of the current Hebrew scriptures we currently have are the originals, different manuscripts have variations and the Hebrew language throughout the Old Testament is not uniform, therefore ELS and Gematria is a waste of time and effort.

 

[mifletzet]

The Samaritans possess only the Five Books of Moses (Pentateuch) and the Book of Joshua. Josephus records that they were bitter enemies of the Jews already from the very beginning of the 2nd Temple. The Samaritans were brought from Cutha by Shalmaneser to settle in the land of the Ten Tribes who had broken away after Solomon's reign when the books of Judges, Samuel and Ruth were yet new, and the sole long-established books extant were the Pentateuch and Joshua. After breaking off, the Ten Tribes would not accept any new books from Judah. They broke away from the House of David and had no interest in David's Psalms or Solomon's Proverbs, nor Judges and Samuel. The few of the Ten Tribes who still remained in the land (II Kings 17) taught the new settlers from Cutha the Pentateuch and Joshua, which they cherish to this day ie that the hostile Samaritans failed to receive any books except the Pentateuch and Joshua date testifies that those books were already extant at least in 900 BCE. Solomon's temple was erected 480 years after the Exodus.

 

[Lee_Magee]

It is strange that the events in the Old Testament seemingly happen at the same time the Phoenicians were carrying on with their lives, for example the many Phoenicians who founded colonies throughout Europe did not bring with them anything Biblical. This suggests the history in the Old Testament never actually happened.

There never was an ancient language called Hebrew, the actual language is Phoenician language, therefore the gods in the Old Testament must also be Phoenician. Or that the Old Testament is stolen rewritten Phoenician history.

 

[mifletzet]

"The English Language is the sea which receives tributaries from every region under heaven". (Emerson)

Modern English is said to be a mixture of 10% Greek, 20% Latin, 15% Old German, 20% Old French, 15% Old Norse and surprisingly 20% Hebrew.

Indeed Isaac Mozeson claims that every word in every language can ultimately be traced back to Hebrew, a legacy of the confusion of the Languages at the Tower of Babel, and that in the Garden of Eden proto-Hebrew was spoken!

Edenics – EDENICS is the engineered Human Language Program best documented by Biblical Hebrew and Aramaic






View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glWG3coAtEg

 

[Gladius]

Indeed Isaac Mozeson claims that every word in every language can ultimately be traced back to Hebrew, a legacy of the confusion of the Languages at the Tower of Babel, and that in the Garden of Eden proto-Hebrew was spoken!

Edenics – EDENICS is the engineered Human Language Program best documented by Biblical Hebrew and Aramaic

The first video already begins with an error.
The author shows the link between "Ragil" in Hebrew with "Regular" in English, which have the same meaning.
The problem is that "Ragil" is not a Biblical word. The later Jewish scholars used "Ragil" to describe something that is repeated many times. In modern Hebrew, it became a word for normal, regular. It is probably based on "Regel", leg.

In other examples he's simply doing crazy longshots, like Giraffe coming from Hebrew "Oref" because it means "Neck", and that's misleading, because it's the back of the neck, not the neck itself.
Other examples he gives can be simply explained by ordinary borrowing due to biblical influences on Christian/Muslim cultures, not because the languages themselves stemmed from Hebrew.

It is quite surprising, as Mozeson graduated from an American Orthodox school. He perhaps doesn't natively speak Hebrew but he should be very proficient in it. Such "mistakes" lead me to believe he's purposely adjusting things to fit his work as to be able to sell it. I didn't watch it all but after 10-15 examples I got discouraged.

 

[mifletzet]

The Hebrew root RGL means usual, normal, habitual, a time, an occasion, as in Numbers 22:28. Regel is one of the regularly repeating pilgrimage holidays, with their attendant regulations, walking to Jerusalem on the Regalim required use of raglayim which keep a regular beat, like an army of regulars, Exodus 12:37.

From Mozeson's book "The Origin of Speeches" p238 "Animal Names":

"If you think the GIRAFFE is a strange animal, check out its weird given etymology. French girafe and Italian giraffa are said to be a corruption of Arabic zirafah. The trouble is that no such root exists in Semitic. The etymon or source word is meaningless in Arabic too, and a G from a Z shift should have been too strange to print. Using the emetology of Edenics instead of etymology, one could salvage zirafah as a metathesis of Edenic [T]ZaVaR (throat). While Adam or any ancient human would do well to call the GIRAFFE a "neck" creature, it is the back of the neck, not in the front, or throat that captures the essence of a giraffe. The Edenic term stressing the Giraffe's prominent back of the neck or (S)CRUFF of the neck is OReF, more correctly pronounced with a guttural as GHoReF. The Ayin Resh Phey is 'stiff necked' is seen in the 'SCRUFF' entry. Now we've got the perfect sound and sense for GIRAFFE, GHoReF means the scruff of the neck. Like SCARF, SCRUFF is a neck-word whose intial S is non-historic. (Any word with more than 3 root letters in Hebrew or any language is carrying extra baggage around the root, or involves compound roots). These C-R-F neck words come from Biblical Hebrew GHoReF (neck) just like CRAVat (necktie). There's nothing wrong with 'throat', but it better fits creatures more delicate than the GIRAFFE. A related Gimel-Resh term, GaRoN (throat, neck) gives us other long-necked animals, like the CRANE, EGRET, and HERON, along with neckwear like the GORGEOUS GORGET, the throaty GROAN of a CROONer, the extension of a building CRANE, and the GARGLING of a GOURMET GARGOYLYE." !

 

[Gladius]

The Hebrew root RGL means usual, normal, habitual, a time, an occasion, as in Numbers 22:28. Regel is one of the regularly repeating pilgrimage holidays, with their attendant regulations, walking to Jerusalem on the Regalim required use of raglayim which keep a regular beat, like an army of regulars, Exodus 12:37.

It means time/occasion, that's not identical to "Regular", which can be found only in modern Hebrew.

From Mozeson's book "The Origin of Speeches" p238 "Animal Names":

"If you think the GIRAFFE is a strange animal, check out its weird given etymology. French girafe and Italian giraffa are said to be a corruption of Arabic zirafah. The trouble is that no such root exists in Semitic. The etymon or source word is meaningless in Arabic too, and a G from a Z shift should have been too strange to print. Using the emetology of Edenics instead of etymology, one could salvage zirafah as a metathesis of Edenic [T]ZaVaR (throat). While Adam or any ancient human would do well to call the GIRAFFE a "neck" creature, it is the back of the neck, not in the front, or throat that captures the essence of a giraffe. The Edenic term stressing the Giraffe's prominent back of the neck or (S)CRUFF of the neck is OReF, more correctly pronounced with a guttural as GHoReF.

But who said Zirafa is Semitic? The etymology itself claims it is from Persian, a different language family, borrowed into Arabic. (In wiki: from Persian زُرنَاپَا‎ (zurnāpā), a compound of زُرنَا‎ (zurnā, “flute, zurna”) and پَا‎ (pā, “leg”).)
Also, what if the word originates in an African language and got corrupted by Muslims?
Why should the Ayn (in Oref) be
guttural? Even if that Ayn was guttural,
The word is still pronounced
J-iraffa or Zh-iraffa, not G-iraffa as in "great". Those sounds aren't even close.

This is what I mean by him doing longshots.

 

[Lee_Magee]

Indeed Isaac Mozeson claims that every word in every language can ultimately be traced back to Hebrew, a legacy of the confusion of the Languages at the Tower of Babel, and that in the Garden of Eden proto-Hebrew was spoken!

This is not true, there never was an ancient language called Hebrew, the Old Testament authors borrowed the Phoenician language and used it for writing their myths and laws.

Yahuda's dictionary is much more logical, he also never categorises Phoenician words into roots, which I am against.

ῥάχετρον, ῥάχις (ערף) the beginning of the spine
λάρυγξ (גרון) the larynx or upper part of the windpipe
δειρή, δέρα (צואר) neck, throat

 

[mifletzet]

Written records of biblical King David discovered by researchers

 

[Sunny]

While my account is relatively new, I have been browsing these forums as a guest for about a year now. The people of this esteemed community are the most open-minded I have ever met, and that is more refreshing then you can believe. While each person has their own opinions on the various subjects discussed on these forums, the entire community is generally willing to admit when they are wrong. That is so rare for an individual, and it is even more rare for an entire community. To the entirety of Stolen History, I just want to thank you for being what you are and helping to find the truth in the world around us. While I disagree with much that is posted here, I can always expect to find people who genuinely want to find the truth, whatever that may be. Now for the actual contents of this post.

I can be considered something akin to a 'Christian', though I utterly reject that term. I believe in Christ, but I despise the form Christianity has taken over the course of it's history. The Church is supposed to stand for truth, and yet it has lost itself to blind dogma. They have stopped looking for the truth and would rather mindlessly believe what is fed to them, and I absolutely reject that way of thinking. I want the truth, not delusions, and I don't care whether the truth agrees with my preconceived opinions or not. That said, I think evidence is out there for Him in the Word. Now, we don't know what can be considered the Word, but that is for another post.

While researching for this evidence, I came across an article from Behold the Stone titled ELS Bible Codes: A Brief Introduction talking about Equidistant Letter Sequencing (ELS) codes that are in Scripture. I sadly can't link it directly since this is my first post. The idea is that by taking certain sequences of the original Hebrew/Greek letters, we can decode messages left by Him in order to further guide us. Now, I don't agree with a lot of the information people have put out about these codes, such as the delusional idea that secret messages in the English text predicted Bin Laden. It is much more logical to use the original sources, or else we will lose any consistency. A simplistic example of these ELS codes can be seen in Psalms 69:30.

View attachment 21528​

A more complicated example can be seen in Genesis 22:7-9, where a message proclaiming the name Yahusha/Jesus as perfect can be read.

View attachment 21529​

I have been able to partially verify these verses specifically, and they are very promising. I can't scan Scripture on my own using a program because my laptop, the only device I can consistently access at the moment, is a potato that can only barely run the stripped-down web browser I use. If anyone with the time and resources could dig into this, that would be great! If this is true, then it would prove divine influence on Scripture, and by extension, God Himself.

Great post, this thread however, a total waste of time. Pearl casting and scoffing. What if I told you that I was in possession of actual empirical evidence of the existence of God and His Son Jesus Christ?

 

[LeePappas]

I don't see where you are going with that. Yes, Paul was a rabbi, but he was changed due to the direct interference of Yahusha. I don't see how you could get to a psyop when referring to the fairly minimal organization of the 1st century

more complicated example can be seen in Genesis 22:7-9, where a message proclaiming the name Yahusha/Jesus as perfect can be read.

I have a bone to pick with you. You refer to Yahusha, but that was not Jesus' Hebrew name. His name was spelled:

Shin oo shin yod
Pronunciation: eeshoosh

His name is composed of two smaller Hebrew words... eesh=black+oosh=foundation.

In Greek they don't have the sound 'sh', so they had to transliterate shin as sigma in the Greek translation of the New testament. His Hebrew name translated to Greek is: Isous(eesooce).

It is from that word that the English derivative 'Jesus' comes from.

I can prove my statement, so you can't prove yours.

How on earth did you come up with the idea that his name was Yahusha? I'd really like to know.