SH Archive 1840: Napoleon's Funeral Carriage

[Archive]

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Username: jd755
Date: 2019-11-04 08:32:12
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Cannon fodder, common people, lower class, small. Aristo's, upper class, officer class, important people tall. The class system on display in printed lithograph if you will. This class system is as real and still in use today, just hidden a bit by political correctness.
Which class has the cash to buy these publications when printed?
Which class runs the publication?
Which class needs, or appears to, reminders of their superiority.
This tall and small distinction is found n many publications of the era.

The odd thing is people accept other lithograhs where there is a giant head on a small body as 'cartoon' but see a tall person anongst small people as evidence of giant people,

 

[KD Archive]

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Username: KorbenDallas
Date: 2019-11-04 12:32:55
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This is exactly how the narrative explains this, among other things.

I do not see any cartoon type images in those two Napoleon lithographs. And as far as I understand, according to the narrative, there was not too many classes back then with opportunity to publish stuff. And even if there were, the higher class would have censored their “highness” in.

Following this logic every single image was supposed to display higher class as taller people, but that was not the case. This reminds me of those slaves dragging huge stones up the ramp.

 

[Archive]

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Username: jd755
Date: 2019-11-04 13:20:02
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It's not a narrative. It's from personal experience, of the class system at work, reading and looking at old books, pamphlets, newspapers.
Look at the images. That funeral carriage weighed 13 tonnes and is completely out of scale with the horses pulling it. They are not draught horses which are the type needed to pull 13 tonnes along ergo they are a cartoon or caricature to be more apt or the modern eye brought up on moving image style cartoons.
And the number of horses change depending on the drawing.
These lithographs always carry within them a message for the intended audience. These are no exception to me always to me.
i know you and others are convinced that these depictions show two sizes of people who existed alongside each other in the 1800s' ergo giants or taller than average people where the norm and have been all but airbrushed out of history but for me political lithography is just that political.

The system is only as good as the messages it can sustain for as long as it can sustain them. A walk around any stately home on this island will give a clear as day example that the aristocracy of the day considered themselves to be the epitome of civilised society. Everything they did and commissioned is on a grand scale from buildings to portraits and the telling of their deeds is done with only one aim in mind. Aristocracy rules everyone else.

 

[KD Archive]

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Username: KorbenDallas
Date: 2019-11-04 13:34:40
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We all have opinions. If they lithographed the pygmies the explanation would have been the same. Some class with money wants to be more important.

 

[Archive]

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Username: jd755
Date: 2019-11-04 13:44:02
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Here's a giant donkey with a giant Napoleon on his way to Elba. As you say imagery is open to interpretation.

Giants or dwarves?

The aristocracy do not see money as wealth. Money is for the common people.

 

[KD Archive]

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Username: KorbenDallas
Date: 2019-11-04 13:57:08
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There are some pretty big donkeys out there. Fossils of some could even be considered prehistoric huge donkey ancestors, or even dinosaur species.

I’m not sure why you keep on bringing in comic type images into a discussion about two lithographs of a serious event, but what else is new? After all fully mapped continents were also just humorous cartoons according to the narrative.

 

[Archive]

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Username: jd755
Date: 2019-11-04 14:00:20
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And pretty big kings!
A political cartoon by James Gillray in which George III (the big guy) says to little Napoleon (who was actually taller than Danny DeVito): "I cannot but conclude you to be one of the most pernicious little odious reptiles that nature ever suffered to crawl upon the surface of the Earth." BURN!

 

[KD Archive]

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Username: KorbenDallas
Date: 2019-11-04 14:07:44
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This funeral image is sure full of sarcasm as well. Probably is a cartoon as well then.

 

[Archive]

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Username: jd755
Date: 2019-11-04 14:14:34
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For what it's worth i'm not in the least bit convinced that Napoleon existed.

This funeral image is sure full of sarcasm as well. Probably is a cartoon as well then.

View attachment 33539

48 42 pallbearers is a bit of a giveway.

 

[Archive]

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Username: Palaiolagash
Date: 2019-11-04 15:11:38
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It would be funny if the only reason Napoleon had been considered a dwarf is if everyone he had done business with on the world stage was a giant but he was a standard sized man as they are known today.

 

[Timeshifter]

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Username: Timeshifter
Date: 2019-11-04 17:50:57
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This funeral image is sure full of sarcasm as well. Probably is a cartoon as well then.

View attachment 33539

Notice the Epaulets on those taller dudes like these here in your Uniforms thread.

 

[HollyHoly]

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Username: HollyHoly
Date: 2019-11-04 18:03:12
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There are some pretty big donkeys out there. Fossils of some could even be considered prehistoric huge donkey ancestors, or even dinosaur species.

View attachment 33537
View attachment 33536

I’m not sure why you keep on bringing in comic type images into a discussion about two lithographs of a serious event, but what else is new? After all fully mapped continents were also just humorous cartoons according to the narrative.

there are giant donkeys!! I saw one once because I had this crazy friend who was an animal trainer bulls ,camels,mules tigers whatever she trained it ,so one day she drives me out to the fricken nowhere desertville Az and shows me this Giant !! Donkey living in a reinforced pen like something you would keep elephants in. When we approached the pen to look at him he started pawing the ground like a bull about to charge. I say so what the hell is this monster? she says what do you think of him? I say think he has bone spur in the brain< our code for that thing is crazy.

the King and queen of the Netherlands < Nether Lands are some Tall people!

 

[Archive]

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Username: Recognition
Date: 2019-11-05 00:12:11
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Theidea of aristocracy being drawn bigger doesn't hold up in this picture:

Generals are significantly smaller than the soldiers.

 

[KD Archive]

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Username: KorbenDallas
Date: 2019-11-05 00:24:31
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It could be that in the above image they are standing on higher ground, the higher ups should probably still be imaged bigger.

The idea of the size depending on importance is plausible at best. This is how my teachers were explaining stuff like this. Where the notion was from, I'm yet to see.

As far as nobility being drawn bigger, that could be highly questionable. We can not really ask those artists any longer. There are plenty of images to dismiss the idea.

At the same time there are plenty of Napoleon images where he is depicted to be of normal size. The truth is lingering somewhere in there. We will get to the bottom of it at some point.

 

[anotherlayer]

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Username: anotherlayer
Date: 2019-11-05 03:09:30
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Let's not forget, we were just learning how to paint again

 

[Archive]

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Username: jd755
Date: 2019-11-05 08:25:31
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Maybe Boney really was a giant as were all the British Aristocratic witnesses to his death. Pity the little ones.

This a very good example of what happens in 'the official history' world as regards this Frenchman. It's about the death mask. Do have a read
Napoléon Bonaparte et la supercherie du masque mortuaire!

This one is the timeline of events at Lngwood house which led to his frst funeral.
INSIDE LONGWOOD - After Napoleon's death

More giants and little people.

 

[mifletzet]

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Username: Mifletz
Date: 2019-11-05 20:00:02
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Rod Steiger would be flabbergasted

 

[Archive]

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Username: Recognition
Date: 2019-11-05 22:28:26
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Off topic but on discussions of drawings of royalty and giants, here's an interesting story about a king obsessed with 'tall men' to the point that he would kidnap them and show them off like circus animals. The Potsdam Giants: How the King of Prussia 'bred' an army of super soldiers | All About History



Could have been interested in rounding up remaining giants...

 

[JimDuyer]

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Username: Jim Duyer
Date: 2019-11-28 00:10:44
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Love this from https://shannonselin.com/2017/05/napoleons-body/

20 years after his burial...

'The cover of the third coffin having been removed, a tin ornament, slightly rusted, was seen, which was removed, and a white satin sheet was perceived, which was detached with the greatest precaution by the doctor, and Napoleon’s body was exposed to view. His features were so little changed that his face was recognized by those who had known him when alive. The different articles which had been deposited in the coffin were found exactly as they had been placed. The hands were singularly well preserved. The uniform, the orders, the hat, were very little changed. His entire person presented the appearance of one lately preserved. The body was not exposed to the external air longer than two minutes at most, which were necessary for the surgeon to take measures to prevent any alteration. (6)'

Wtf?

As to whats in the carriage? Something BIG!

And also, here we have another legendary funeral, 13 years into mainstream admission of photography, but no photos of the event....

This could be anything, anyone, anytime?

This part about him not changing sounds like the description that the Catholics give of their saints - supposedly even after many years their bodies do not decay. But wait - wasn't Napoleon in Egypt for quite awile? Could he have been embalmed using the esoteric fashions of the Egyptian gods?
t

 

[Archive]

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Username: Nightrider
Date: 2020-02-29 21:56:37
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mmm, could be, did the French hold carnivals back then? Did anyone?

a side note, wtf are those things atop of the Arc? Which are no longer there? Considering the size of the arc (50m) they are not small.

Also, 1840. 13 years after the French supposedly invented Photography, and no photos?

View attachment 24142

edit: Whilst looking for old photos of the Arc DT, could not find anything pre 1960. However,

Victor Hugo had a similar funeral, but his carriage was a little less grand

View attachment 24143

However, by the time we get to the Arc, we have this? and the Stuff on the roof is back....

View attachment 24144

Symbolism? Scarifice?

Maybe it was the western gate of sorts? Of the european arcs i have been looking at, they have some sort of horses on top of them. Looks kind of "roman" to me.
I also wonder what that big piece of fabric might be. Its hangin on the left in one picture. And its covering the top horses, or whatever they had in paris, in one picture.