1901: Pan Am Buffalo and why these Pan Ams were as insane as they look

[Archive]

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Username: jd755
Date: 2019-01-30 20:18:11
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They are not removing the first tree they are planting it.
The big fruits are likely jackfruits or custard apples or some such and they are on display in those jars because they don't travel well, bruise and rot easily and are south american in origin.
The one with the half fruits in it look to be melons.
The fruit on the right appear to be all apple or tomato. Is/was missouri known as an apple/tomato growing state?
The 'fairy' statue looks completely out of place. If its really there my money is on it being papier mache on a chicken wire support construction.
The 'white workers photograph is a mixture of 'painted in people' (specifically the two blurry figures and whatever is between them) and real photograph).
The wooden beans sporting already cast? corintian style tops seem to have been made ready to receive their casting of whatever they are using lime mortar maybe. The square columns by comparison appear to brick built but the one in the left background shows wooden supports still in place which suggests they too were cast.

 

[KD Archive]

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Username: KorbenDallas
Date: 2019-02-17 19:41:15
Reaction Score: 6

I am far from being convinced on us building this expo the way it is told in the history books.

We sure do have a lot of newspaper cutouts pertaining to 1901 PanAm Expo. At the same time newspapers back then were publishing some things which I consider to be a pure building indoctrination program.

• 1889 Post-Fire Seattle rebuild speed: 5,625 buildings in 18 months

Machinery Building plaster arches

Why do we have trees growing within the supposedly brand new construction? Could they be dismantling something old? What's the significance there? Well, if they did not build this specific building, they did not build the entire expo.

A bigger image can be seen within this post here, or at this link.

And in general, for something which was supposedly built in 1901, where is all the equipment which allegedly existed for approximately 50 years by then? We can see a horse, a rope, a shovel and a hammer.

Personally, I think we are far from figuring out this 1901 PanAm Expo.

Obviously buildings are not mushrooms, as in they do not grow on their own. The buildings were clearly there, which means they were built. The questions are when, by whom and how.

 

[anotherlayer]

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Username: anotherlayer
Date: 2019-02-21 04:02:16
Reaction Score: 3

I am far from being convinced on us building this expo the way it is told in the history books.

We sure do have a lot of newspaper cutouts pertaining to 1901 PanAm Expo. At the same time newspapers back then were publishing some things which I consider to be a pure building indoctrination program.

• 1889 Post-Fire Seattle rebuild speed: 5,625 buildings in 18 months

Machinery Building plaster arches

Why do we have trees growing within the supposedly brand new construction? Could they be dismantling something old? What's the significance there? Well, if they did not build this specific building, they did not build the entire expo.

A bigger image can be seen within this post here, or at this link.
View attachment 17308

And in general, for something which was supposedly built in 1901, where is all the equipment which allegedly existed for approximately 50 years by then? We can see a horse, a rope, a shovel and a hammer.

Personally, I think we are far from figuring out this 1901 PanAm Expo.

Obviously buildings are not mushrooms, as in they do not grow on their own. The buildings were clearly there, which means they were built. The questions are when, by whom and how.

I'm pretty certain those trees are just the landscaping. The sooner you plant them, the better. You can see in the larger version that the trees are clearly behind (outside) this building. This is also great picture of the simple wooden lathe that is behind the plaster.

If these were repairs or deconstruction of some ancient building, you would have to explain what gives you that idea. Perhaps that they are chiseling those plaster panels off with hammers? In this photo you have people working. You have a pony. You have wooden lathe. You have other work going on in the background.

And if I were a foreman, I'd tell the photographer, you can come on site and take your stupid photos, but get in early and get out before the entire crew is here (sidenote, the photos of hundreds of workers and horses in one shot exist, I have held them in my hands).

That is a picture of them constructing a building out of wood and plaster. On ol' Rumsey farm. With all due respect, you guys know I am with you on all thoughts and conjecture but I think the Buffalo Pan-Am is what it is and we are barking up the wrong tree.

 

[KD Archive]

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Username: KorbenDallas
Date: 2019-02-21 05:27:12
Reaction Score: 7

I don't see how those weeds could be incorporated into the below building. But its just me. Would be nice to hear some additional opinions.

Just like I don't know why the image had to be a composite one.

 

[fega72]

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Username: fega72
Date: 2019-03-02 19:32:43
Reaction Score: 2

View attachment 17534

Can someone please explain me how the hell this 2x4+plaster walls can hold the weight of this building?

 

[wizz33]

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Username: wizz33
Date: 2019-03-12 00:01:32
Reaction Score: 1

watch the Vatican bit

 

[_harris]

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Username: 0harris0
Date: 2019-03-12 14:36:41
Reaction Score: 2

Can someone please explain me how the hell this 2x4+plaster walls can hold the weight of this building?

massive steel framed building, like a warehouse, or an old railway station

the wood is there to frame the steel and hold the plaster and lathe cladding

 

[fega72]

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Username: fega72
Date: 2019-03-12 19:32:59
Reaction Score: 2

massive steel framed building, like a warehouse, or an old railway station

the wood is there to frame the steel and hold the plaster and lathe cladding

View attachment 17534

I would like to see the steel frame of this building. This must be an art of steel work!

 

[_harris]

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Username: 0harris0
Date: 2019-03-14 01:51:58
Reaction Score: 2

I would like to see the steel frame of this building. This must be an art of steel work!

I don't doubt that it would be- we did get pretty good at steel!!

 

[fega72]

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Username: fega72
Date: 2019-03-14 09:14:05
Reaction Score: 3

I don't doubt that it would be- we did get pretty good at steel!!

How you can compare this two?

 

[_harris]

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Username: 0harris0
Date: 2019-03-14 14:04:32
Reaction Score: 2

first off, i'm not saying all the exhibition buildings were steel, wood and plaster, but some of them definitely were. and I'm not trying to force any sort of belief of opinion, just giving you some real life evidence of how good our ancestors were with steel work!!!

I am simply offering an answer to your question of "how [can] 2x4+plaster walls can hold the weight of this building?". It's because the "fake" ones were built with wood and plaster facades over a steel frame, not simply an entire building held by 2x4 and plaster.

look at the indoors photographs of the exhibition halls and tell me there's no difference between the way they're built and the way my local train station was built.. check out Sutro baths too, same type of steel framework!

that's just how the huge steel frames look, it's how it all works. the roofs in a lot of the exhibition halls are made the same. just cladded with very fancy looking facades.

 

[fega72]

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Username: fega72
Date: 2019-03-14 14:55:28
Reaction Score: 1

I am simply offering an answer to your question of "how [can] 2x4+plaster walls can hold the weight of this building?". It's because the "fake" ones were built with wood and plaster facades over a steel frame, not simply an entire building held by 2x4 and plaster.

Thanks!

 

[Archive]

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Username: Tyrion
Date: 2019-03-14 15:48:52
Reaction Score: 5

There is not much I can say that haven’t been said before here. But It is impossible for these expos to have been built in less than two years just for show and then demolished, even using the cheapest materials. It takes years to build a Disneyland and that is not nearly as impressive.

 

[Archive]

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Username: jd755
Date: 2019-07-11 11:31:09
Reaction Score: 1

In this picture,

where KD ringed the vegetation in red, we the viewer and the camera with its photographer are inside the machinery building looking out on the trees which are actually outside of the building.

Flipped through 180 degrees to get the right perspective.

Here's the courtyard/between buildings space on the right of the machinery hall in this photo.

 

[Archive]

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Username: Banta
Date: 2019-08-02 17:52:28
Reaction Score: 1

Couple things,

anotherlayer has gotten out there and provided additional information, which is more than many are willing to do and is very appreciated. However, let's all bear in mind that his primary source is a historical society that was founded in 1862, whose first President was an ex-US President (Millard Fillmore, the last Whig essentially, who also helped found the University at Buffalo around the same time), who moved into one of the only permanent Expo buildings afterwards, also:

It has hosted observances of Lincoln's Birthday for over a century.

Buffalo has a role in that in general... oddly enough. From the Lincoln's birthday wiki:

The earliest known observance of Lincoln's birthday occurred in Buffalo, New York, in either 1873 or 1874. Julius Francis (d. 1881), a Buffalo druggist, made it his life's mission to honor the slain president. He repeatedly petitioned Congress to establish Lincoln's birthday as a legal holiday.

I would think the earliest known observance of Lincoln's birthday would have been the day he was born, but I guess you don't care about birthdays if you're log cabin folk.

From 1879 to 1947, the Society published pioneering scholarship on the people, events, and history of the Niagara Frontier. Many of those volumes are now online in full text.

Preserving or creating the narrative? Always seems to be a little of both.

Link:
BHSpublications.doc

The second one has a transcript of the address given at the 1882 Buffalo 50 year anniversary by then Mayor Grover Cleveland. Another President in Buffalo history.

Where are they, indeed! Okay, so it's a little out of context.

Basically, I'd like to see the Electric Tower construction photos that anotherlayer mentioned and any other followups that can make this even more confusing!

 

[Archive]

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Username: jd755
Date: 2019-08-03 14:49:21
Reaction Score: 1

Once again the question is what source(s) of information are trustworthy?
All that happens is a regurgitating of wikiwakiallmadeup and what google deems fit to host on its utube.
Actually holding photographs/documents in hand, taking photos of them, taking photos of real locations are the best it gets as far as I can tell and sharing the findings on here is the best way to 'get it out there'. But obviously on this thread as many others such things are deemed not good enough.

 

[Archive]

Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.
Username: Banta
Date: 2019-08-03 16:36:40
Reaction Score: 1

Once again the question is what source(s) of information are trustworthy?
All that happens is a regurgitating of wikiwakiallmadeup and what google deems fit to host on its utube.
Actually holding photographs/documents in hand, taking photos of them, taking photos of real locations are the best it gets as far as I can tell and sharing the findings on here is the best way to 'get it out there'. But obviously on this thread as many others such things are deemed not good enough.

Practically no source is trustworthy. Certainly not YouTube but neither are official archives. Does the Vatican store ancient, surpressed texts or pure Jesuit fantasy stories? I have no idea. Is it easier to build a thousand buildings or fake a thousand documents?

I'm not saying that we should throw anything out, everything needs to be evaluated on its own terms. And for myself personally, I'm gonna need more than a few newspaper articles and photos that can be debated (and then even if accepted, we still can't be certain of exactly when they were taken) in order for me to actually believe that we could build projects on the scale of these expos, given the supposed time involved.

Getting more detailed construction photos of the permanent structures would help, as it's also possible everything was built where and when they said, but not how.

 

[anotherlayer]

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Username: anotherlayer
Date: 2019-08-04 03:34:02
Reaction Score: 1

The satisfying part about the Pan Am is, it was 1900 and we had cameras and they actually took pictures of it all! Usually we're left asking "hey, this happened in 1900 and no photos exist???".

Go Bills. Cool thread.

 

[KD Archive]

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Username: KorbenDallas
Date: 2019-08-04 04:41:32
Reaction Score: 1

The Organ post:

• The Temple's auditorium was capable of seating 2,200 people, and contained one of the largest pipe organs ever built in the United States.

The 101 of organ building:

• Building an organ - the largest and most complex musical instrument of all - takes a huge amount of material, craftsmanship, time and money. Frequently it takes several years of planning and construction until the pipe organ is finally completed, and there are many different crafts involved in the process.
• In this passage the process of building an organ will be explained in a somewhat simplified manner but with many pictures to help you understand it all.
• Organ building.

We have photographs, newspaper articles and other texts, but we do not have understanding of how it was accomplished. I'm exactly the opposite from @anotherlayer on this entire Buffalo Expo. It was built, but everything we know about the construction infrastructure, as well as the event support infrastructure remains unanswered. We have trees growing at some crazy rate, pipe organs being built within months, the city of Buffalo accommodating additional 100k people on a daily basis, and many other things. My understanding is that quite a few people have different opinions on the matter. I think that the main info on what these events really were are yet to come out.

 

[Archive]

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Username: jd755
Date: 2019-08-04 14:01:06
Reaction Score: 1

Well there it is. No source is trustworthy and yet the truth about these events has yet to come out, from somewhere, somehow, a source that has yet to be revealed, or discovered or placed into the public domain or some such. Why bother with untrustworthy sources any more when surely the most pressing task at hand is to find the unknown source that is trustworthy. It's out there, too quote a half a phrase.