AI and Stolen History: An Open Inquiry

[Jd755]

Well having read all I can find on this Canadian startup taalas its product and its founders and funders I might as well give up with my wanderings through historical evidence, thinking for myself, looking into "left field" just for the hell of it, you know "human" things and sit waiting for the taalas product to hit the market as AI running on it exceeds human abilities when it comes to data crunching and therefore will decide the past, in the now, predicting a future, in the now, as humans have always done, with the sole difference being AI inference isn't alive.

Except. I have heard such tales before. Every new invention over my lifetime is always going to "change the world" in ways "we cannot imagine" and this one is following the same pattern so it must be a pattern that works. But works for who and in what way exactly?
The fact people on here are predicting what's going to happen in the vague but universally popular "3-5 years out" based on their interactions with AI software or their readings of the claims about AI software is quite sad. Hell I was even accused by the author of the op of being a bot!
Carrol O'Connor: Secret Agent Man

This place, in its first incarnation, was a busy place full of bright people unafraid to lay their ideas, thoughts, insights out with few (very few thinking back,) taking offence at words on a screen. Banter was moderated but not discouraged, staying on topic was heavily moderated (rightly so if the discourse was ever going to get anywhere) and the understandings moved on or became stuck as people, yes living breathing people, were the "things" doing the investigating and the writing and reading.

Today this second incarnation contains people, best I can tell, some of whom openly say they use AI software, others who obviously use it but don't say so and majority still don't. I know of one of those who used it without saying so was banned after two members brought it to the attention of the then administrator but others are active on here.
Its the tip of the spear that will kill the endeavour.
As more and more choose to take the convenience option over the work option (and they will, people at large are moths to a flame when its convenience on offer) this forums reason for being diminishes as the AI programmed acceptable reality replaces the human desire to find out and enjoy doing it.
That is not a prediction its pattern recognition.

 

[AntiSoof]

Indeed, AI seems to me to be a hostile weapon, an intruder that brings the world under the control of the evil one. That much is clear to me. I can't prove it, of course, but judging by the history of the evil bringers (the 'Mafia'), this will also bring terrible disasters.
Most of the wars of the last 100 years e.g. (more than 80) have been waged by evil. The top brass of that terrible evil sees its opportunity to amass even more power.

I don't know if that's what you meant, but I see a clear line. The technocrats, under the leadership of the evil in this world, are making their move. In my opinion, the MSM is the most treacherous and important party, fooling billions of people, hypnotising them, and leading them to hell on earth. Youtube = MSM.

So, I think, that 'AI' is from the devil himself. (And isn't the internet also an invention of the 'technocrats'? We can use it until the net closes, I think.)

 

[jeenam]

I understand your sentiments.

From my experience and from what I've read, the thing that makes humans different is that we have been imbued with a soul. And that isn't just limited to humans from what I can tell. Anyone who says plants or animals don't have souls is ignorant imho. They've done research and there's documented evidence of people missing a significant portion (>80%) of what would be considered normal brain mass for homo sapiens with no loss of physical or cognitive abilities. The point is that our current primitive understanding of what it means to be intelligent is obviously flawed; so much so that we can't figure out how someone missing what we consider to be essential components of the brain that enable higher forms of thinking (the neocortex) can still function normally.

It is my personal belief that we're intentionally being led astray in our scientific endeavors and understanding of the world around us so as to intentionally retard our abilities. Of that I have zero doubt. If we truly want to understand how biological creatures built from the underlying code of DNA truly operate, we need to figure out how to read and program DNA. It is for that reason that I am also what would be referred to as a "creationist". The problem in modern times is that the word "creationist" is associated with folks who fervently ascribe to organized religions, and I can assure you that I have zero association with what anyone would consider organized religion. If anyone were to ask me my thoughts on religion I would refer them to the quote by Bertrand Russell:

"My own view on religion is that of Lucretius. I regard it as a disease born of fear and as a source of untold misery to the human race."

The complexity and operation of DNA is obviously so complex that there is intelligence behind it, hence the term "intelligent design". The biological processes underpinned by genetic code far surpass any machines that we currently produce. There's nothing that even comes remotely close. The fact people can't realize this absolutely stumps me, but that can all probably be traced back to the lifetime of indoctrination the masses receive from the time they're born up until their physical vehicle (read: the human body) expires.


As for AI polluting discourse all over the internet, yeah, it's awful. We can all see how it will eventually be used as a source of truth to indoctrinate the generations to come with false ideas and beliefs. It will be an always on, always pervasive mechanism whose influence will compliment the cesspool that is mainstream media. Even worse, it's enabling mass surveilance that can and will be used for oppression and suppression.

 

[SonofaBor]

Except. I have heard such tales before. Every new invention over my lifetime is always going to "change the world" in ways "we cannot imagine" and this one is following the same pattern so it must be a pattern that works. But works for who and in what way exactly?
The fact people on here are predicting what's going to happen in the vague but universally popular "3-5 years out" based on their interactions with AI software or their readings of the claims about AI software is quite sad. Hell I was even accused by the author of the op of being a bot!
Carrol O'Connor: Secret Agent Man

Every new technology has profoundly changed us. No way around this. See, McLuhan on media or even Plato on writing. I don't know how to perceive this LLM change precisely. So I'm cautious and skeptical. But I think if one has an orientation toward things human, they are probably better off. No offense, but I really don't know if you are a bot or not; thus, I wouldn't accuse you of being one.

 

[Tomkat]

Every new technology has profoundly changed us. No way around this. See, McLuhan on media or even Plato on writing. I don't know how to perceive this LLM change precisely. So I'm cautious and skeptical. But I think if one has an orientation toward things human, they are probably better off. No offense, but I really don't know if you are a bot or not; thus, I wouldn't accuse you of being one.

I'm sorry but there isn't a bot in this universe that could be mistaken for Jd755 haha

 

[jeenam]

I'm sorry but there isn't a bot in this universe that could be mistaken for Jd755 haha

There's a pretty simple solution if you want to avoid being mistaken for a bot. Throw in some witty humor, cuz frankly, I've yet to see a bot that comes close to making insightfully snide remarks that poke fun at the shitjob world we're living in.

 

[SonofaBor]

AI doesn't understand people. It has been pre-programmed to interact via responses that will induce people into believing that it actually does. Do not confuse this reality.

Here the LLM explains misunderstandings about it and what it actually does do in non-computer language. It is short--8+ minutes.

 

[jeenam]

Here the LLM explains misunderstandings about it and what it actually does do in non-computer language. It is short--8+ minutes.

She lost me around the 4:15 mark when she asked the AI to interpret the Bible LOLz. AI can't interpret - it just recites, verbatim, other people's writings...smh. In other words, the AI doesn't have an opinion. Whatever it spits out to her regarding her question about Bible interpretation is just someone else's writing that it scraped from the web.

If anyone found the Truthstream Media video I linked to in a previous post compelling, they did a follow-up video on the same topic.

The Eliza Effect 2: Electric Idiocracy Zombie Apocalypse Boogaloo

 

[SonofaBor]

She lost me around the 4:15 mark when she asked the AI to interpret the Bible LOLz. AI can't interpret - it just recites, verbatim, other people's writings...smh. In other words, the AI doesn't have an opinion. Whatever it spits out to her regarding her question about Bible interpretation is just someone else's writing that it scraped from the web.

If anyone found the Truthstream Media video I linked to in a previous post compelling, they did a follow-up video on the same topic.

The Eliza Effect 2: Electric Idiocracy Zombie Apocalypse Boogaloo

Well, I think there is more to it; but I remain cautious and skeptical. She is a human, just trying to figure things out.

 

[jeenam]

Well, I think there is more to it; but I remain cautious and skeptical. She is a human, just trying to figure things out.

I get where you're coming from, and my comment reply was in no way meant to be a shot at you.

The divide between the technically adept and technically uninformed majority will always exist. If anyone needed further proof of that, the difference in comprehension of reality between folks who support Trump and folks who realize he's a conman is a good analogy. Some folks just aren't ever going to get it - they're simply hopeless. Perhaps one of the biggest issues is the way AI is being framed to the masses. There's no disclaimer or test required before "interacting with AI" that ensures people have a full understanding of what AI is and isn't capable of to prevent the anthropomorphizing and mistaken belief that AI is actually anything remotely sentient like an actual human being.

 

[Jd755]

I'm sorry but there isn't a bot in this universe that could be mistaken for Jd755 haha

Thank you.

 

[Jd755]

There's a pretty simple solution if you want to avoid being mistaken for a bot.

If that statement doesn't illustrate what "resets" actually are and how they are done I will show my backside in Woolies window...or eat my hat

 

[Jd755]

Here the LLM explains misunderstandings about it and what it actually does do in non-computer language. It is short--8+ minutes.

Youtubes will send you gaga if you choose to let them.
I would argue once upon a time printed media had the same effect on people truth be told it still can if one consumes media to 'find out about the world'.
Top tip disassemble jefdemolders first post in this thread line by line if you want to figure out what "written by AI" tells are.

 

[Jd755]

I get where you're coming from, and my comment reply was in no way meant to be a shot at you.

The divide between the technically adept and technically uninformed majority will always exist. If anyone needed further proof of that, the difference in comprehension of reality between folks who support Trump and folks who realize he's a conman is a good analogy. Some folks just aren't ever going to get it - they're simply hopeless. Perhaps one of the biggest issues is the way AI is being framed to the masses. There's no disclaimer or test required before "interacting with AI" that ensures people have a full understanding of what AI is and isn't capable of to prevent the anthropomorphizing and mistaken belief that AI is actually anything remotely sentient like an actual human being.

People actively sell their souls for convenience alone these days. The device that enables it is the mobile computer with a screen masquerading as "a phone" that has successfully turned all but 100% of the human population here where I live ( and I would argue most places where they are sold) into phone zombies.
Glued to the things, carrying them with them wherever they go, peering into them scrolling, tapping, listening, hoping for some contact from the ether to manifest right in their hand.
These devices are fully funded by the humans using them not the companies serving up the content. They are "upgraded" at extra cost regularly when a new device is brought out. If dropped or stolen, mislaid then its the end of their world until the device is located and secured. It is the connection to an artificial illusion of "reality".

That is how stupid humans are and I write this in the knowing that almost everyone reading this will do so on a mobile computer aka "smart phone". Having lived through the invention of the phone zombie (transhumanism hello!!) from its inception until today I have come to realise how easy it is to get people at large and crucially individually to do just about anything over time.
This device is the true game changer. AI is and only ever can be software.

The history has always been written after the fact. No other way to write it, if one discounts Star Trek and The Simpsons, it has always been deliberately faked, made up on the spot, only ever existed in the opinions of academics committed to "papers", guessed at, etc
AI is pulling data from all of these "sources" and each time a set of writing is presented as "the answer" to the human phone zombie on screen a "new take" on history has been invented which humans who chose to be divorced from their innate self inculcate and take forward as "fact".
Then they will go on to defend their new AI "fact" just as dutifully as they defend their "smartphone'.
History faked by software is nothing more than the contemporary version of history faked by writing which in turn is nothing more than history faked by opinion.

Perhaps the truth is true history only exists inside our perception and experience.

 

[Jef Demolder]

Top tip disassemble jefdemolders first post in this thread line by line if you want to figure out what "written by AI" tells are.

Not at all. I would never allow AI to speak for me. I stand behind what I say with my whole being. That is also the reason why I fight with an open visor, using in this forum my real name and a photo of myself. I we want to realize scientific progress, in history criticism or whatever, we must commit ourselves personally and not hide behind pseudonyms, and we must try to find a constructive form of scepticism and a way out of the matrix. Or am I, as a retired boomer, already a historical phenomen?

 

[SonofaBor]

Or am I, as a retired boomer, already a historical phenomen

I hope not; for I have the same reflections. I think it is most serious of you to take up with the emerging technology and its epistemic effects.

 

[SonofaBor]

Youtubes will send you gaga if you choose to let them.
I would argue once upon a time printed media had the same effect on people truth be told it still can if one consumes media to 'find out about the world'.

I'm pretty "discerning"-- as they say nowadays. I do think some people are getting information or feedback from the device in their own languages, which confounds the instinct to refuse them and the technology. It is interesting, I've found some young people who are, at the very least, asking pertinent questions. Immediately after the videos, youtube sends me to fantasy land. That is youtube doing its youtube. I stand by my recommendations.

 

[Jd755]

Not at all. I would never allow AI to speak for me. I stand behind what I say with my whole being. That is also the reason why I fight with an open visor, using in this forum my real name and a photo of myself. I we want to realize scientific progress, in history criticism or whatever, we must commit ourselves personally and not hide behind pseudonyms, and we must try to find a constructive form of scepticism and a way out of the matrix. Or am I, as a retired boomer, already a historical phenomen?

Obviously neither you nor I can prove what we say to anyone else however just as we take onboard the accents of those we spend the most time amongst we also take onboard the writing styles of those we most read the most.

Had to look "boomer" up. Turns out I too was born in the time period the odd, to me at least, label is applied to. Not that that adds anything to the discourse but there it is.

Obviously not onboard with your commitment being dependant on 'real names'. The name on the book matters not the content is what counts.
On that note I have read your articles on your website and your style of writing there is different to your post on here.

 

[Jd755]

May I just add it has been a genuine pleasure to take part in a conversation where nobody takes offence at words on a screen.

 

[Oracle]

I agree.


One of many totalising waves, I'd say. Religion, education, law, money are also previous examples to me. All this 'social infrastructure' can colour the individual's perception of actual, experiential reality.

I get that the idea of 'correcting oneself' as @AntiSoof says, can sound like a poor consolation if you want to make this place 'great, again'. If you think the past was better, humans were nobler, societies were wonderful, etc, but now we are led astray, nurtered into playing roles that no one would choose, there is frustration. And that with AI there is even less hope of cracking the reality (needle) of the thing, with so much hay being produced.

Where I go is to accept that my ideas and thoughts of the past are just another story. That these too are a delusion based in the stories I prefer. It simply is not possible to know the past. Even if one imagines an ideal society, someone was having a hard time, experiencing unfairness, feeling constrained by others. Nothing was perfect, just because we have the idea of it.

In a way, the worse a society is (ie the more constraints and manipulations it attempts on the individual) the easier it becomes for the individual to find true value for themselves, as the contrast becomes stark. True value can only be found within oneself, and it was ever thus. You don't need to subject yourself to anything you don't want. If others are acting in ways you can see are flawed, what is that to you? - they are free to choose. One doesn't need to choose to be outward facing, and make this place better (like Marxists, right wingers, and everyone else) who know better and want to "help" you, whether you want it or not. The real work was and is: working on oneself, accepting that others have the right to live as they like, to have the strength to do the right thing according to your personal assessment even if 'everyone' has a different opinion.

So 'looking to the self' is no mere consolation, it was always the only answer.

You're right, I shouldn't have reacted that way and should have read the topic more carefully. I'm sorry.

I would love a discussion about that side of things though myself, perhaps you could start another thread focusing on that aspect and submit it to an appropriate sub forum?