Carrol O'Connor: Secret Agent Man

SonofaBor

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After the recent controversial comments by Donald Trump about Rob Reiner-- he called him, after his apparent murder at the hands of his son, "a deranged person" and after listening to Mike King's "The Murder of Meathead" analysis of Reiner (who co-starred with O'Connor in "All in the Family" during the 1970s), I went searching for the article below, which I posted on the original site. I could not find it; so I will re-post it for scholarly and speculative purposes.


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Reiner and O'Connor​


While my dad was ill from cancer (probably from hauling nearly everything, including, chemicals and crude oil across the United States-- a job and "identity" of care and self-sacrifice for which he was proud) in the early 90s, some of us were hanging out with him talking and watching TV. The Simpsons was on and my dad commented: “Another hit job on the workingman.” He would not have said that in the 1970s. He didn’t see it coming. But at the end of his life, he saw it terribly and clearly. The jokers put on TV to entertain us were not only mocking us, but also training us how to be impotent and teaching others (and ourselves) to revile us (that is, to be “deplorable"). In the 1970s when we were still laughing, one of the most “popular" shows on TV was All in the Family. It starred John Carroll O’Connor (1924-2001) as Archie Bunker, and it ran weekly on CBS from January 12, 1971 to April 8, 1979.

According to Wikipedia:

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"All in the Family is about a working-class white family living in Queens, New York. Its patriarch is Archie Bunker (O'Connor), an outspoken, narrow-minded man, seemingly prejudiced against everyone who is not like him or his idea of how people should be. Archie's wife Edith (Jean Stapleton) is sweet and understanding, though somewhat naïve and uneducated; her husband sometimes disparagingly calls her "dingbat". Their one child, Gloria (Sally Struthers), is generally kind and good-natured like her mother, but displays traces of her father's stubbornness and temper; unlike them, she's a feminist. Gloria is married to college student Michael Stivic (Reiner) – referred to as "Meathead" by Archie – whose values are likewise influenced and shaped by the counterculture of the 1960s. The two couples represent the real-life clash of values between the Greatest Generation and Baby Boomers. For much of the series, the Stivics live in the Bunkers' home to save money, providing abundant opportunity for them to irritate each other....

Frequently called a "lovable bigot", Archie was an assertively prejudiced blue-collar worker. A World War II veteran, Archie longs for better times when people sharing his viewpoint were in charge..."

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Sounds like pure sweetness. Of course, it was not. It was vile propaganda, designed to destroy. I’d like to go through the up-side down descriptions on Wikipedia and elsewhere and explicate the treachery. But this seems like a waste of time. Instead, I’ll offer a brief clip that will help us understand the perverse so-called humor and its relation to the points I hope to make in the paragraphs that follow.

Archie Bunker and the Jews

I grew up in a working class household with working class relatives and working class friends. Dads worked as truckers, machinists, maintenance men, printers, factory workers, linemen, train conductors, policemen, firemen, meter readers and so on. I never heard any man or woman speak ill of the Jews, Blacks, Mexicans, homosexuals or each other. No one ever concocted a petition to keep anyone out of the neighborhood. My dad spent time helping kids at school, coaching sports, making friends with other parents, and talking with other people at his favorite local restaurants. Life wasn’t idyllic. All the parents were concerned about earning enough money to keep their families afloat, but no one ever talked about it. They talked about their kids, the weather, the news, the beauty of Oregon, and all sorts of stuff. People weren’t gorging themselves on nostalgia for the good old days, either. If anything, they wanted to forget the wars and fears. Women were not naive. Nobody learned from this show about the “Greatest Generation and Baby Boomers.” In fact, if I remember right, those terms hadn’t been inserted yet into the popular discourse. Nobody would have thought a real life bigot to be at all lovable.

To turn the screw once more, Norman Lear, a well-known and highly celebrated producer, based the show on his own father. Wikipedia tells us:

"When Lear was nine years old, his father went to prison for selling fake bonds. Lear thought of his father as a "rascal" and said that the character of Archie Bunker (whom Lear depicted as white Protestant on the show) was in part inspired by his father, while the character of Edith Bunker was in part inspired by his mother."

It is notable that in the 1980s, the Christian right tried to tar Lear, who is ethnically Jewish, as an atheist. (I admit this is one label that made people in my town uneasy; no doubt, that is why it why was used). But the attacks were simple misdirection. Defend the working class only by associating it with religious conformity and intolerance. Lear was never really in trouble. The Christian Right leadership (e.g., televangelists and mega-church stars) were ripping off their subjects, just from a different angle. That is, ordinary Christians were right in their cultural critique of the show and television in general, but they were kept ignorant about who was behind the cultural onslaught against them. In any case, if Lear really came from humble origins (which is very doubtful, insofar as his dad dealt in bonds), he wasn’t showing any compassion. Like father, like son, he was a rascal but a superior counterfeiter.

Looking back, I doubt anyone would have watched the show at all were it not for the fact that it suddenly became the number one show, celebrated at every turn, in the early 1970s. (For those who don’t know or recall, there were only four reliable channels on TV in those days-- CBS, NBC, ABC and PBS.) In fact, during its first season it got very poor ratings. It was during the summer, when networks ran re-runs of the prior-season’s shows, that All in the Family somehow spiked in popularity. It sounds suspicious. Like all the best-seller lists and top-40 lists and everything else that "we the people" are supposed to like, its popularity was probably manufactured and then sold to us as “must see TV.”

My parents liked to pass time with the TV. And they were gullible. These were their sins.

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John Carroll O’Connor
 
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John Carroll O’Connor was neither Protestant nor Jewish. He was Catholic. He was from New York. He certainly didn’t grow up working class, either. His dad was a lawyer and his two brothers were doctors. Like a blackface minstrel, he portrayed something he wasn’t. Imagine a Catholic producer and a protestant actor teaming to make a show about a Jewish “lovable bigot.” One can’t. It would simply not be allowed or even considered.

I suspect that John Carroll O’Connor was a “secret agent man” from the early 1940s. My first clue is that there is nothing about his family past his father at geni.com or elsewhere. Wikipedia tells us about his youth. We learn that he had a very remarkable (meaning unbelievable) career. O’Connor entered Wake Forest University-- private and presumably expensive in 1941, age 17. He then left the college to join the Navy (naval intelligence?) at the onset of WWII. He was reportedly rejected and enrolled in the merchant marine. (Miles W. Mathis has shown that this is often a stop for spooks— i.e., intel agents). But it gets weirder. After the war, instead of a return to the warm, comfortable climes of North Carolina, he went to Missoula, Montana to study at the University of Montana. There he became the editor of the school newspaper. He then went to live in Ireland “to help his brother in medical school.” Huh? So, an at least moderately well-off kid goes to Ireland to help his brother? How could he help him? Working at the gas station for wages? Doing his homework? Didn’t his parents have enough money to send Carroll to a private college? Why wouldn’t the brother just come home if he needed help? Why are both Carroll and his brother in Ireland at the same time? (Maybe a reader with knowledge of Ireland in the early 1950s will have a better idea than me and share it. Nonetheless, I suspect, from the work Carroll would perform and his familial connections that they or Carroll were either getting intelligence training or at a family pow wow or both).

He then returned to Missoula, married a Drama and English major, and graduated with a Master’s Degree in Speech in 1956. Again, this seems strange. Not only did he take leave for irregular purposes, but he seemed to have not graduated. But then he graduated with a Master’s Degree? By 1960, again as if by magic, his career in acting took off. He took bit roles in many of the big TV shows of the era. A clear sign of the spook: moving across continent in an irregular but spectacular career arc.

Coincidentally, just after O’Connor left Montana, my dad became a member of his fraternity. He, however, never graduated. If it was hard for me, and it was, it was likely nearly impossible, even for a charming, optimistic and bright person like Ted, who came from the oil fields of Northern Montana. In any case, O’Connor definitely had no problems and he learned something about the Irish Catholic working class; for I’m sure that everyone, including my dad, who had any knowledge of Montana was convinced the TV O'Connor was another Irish Catholic from the mining town of Butte.
 
A second clue came to me by chance. A week or two ago a friend who helped me find the "Montana Brewery” wrote to me. She told me she had been to Helena and that I had to see Carroll College, “it looks just like a castle.” Of course, castles are usually mud flood remnants of a prior civilization. Sure enough, the pictures tell us just that:

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Carroll College​

All the usual signs are present. No trees. Ramps to un-flooded stories. Buried basements with windows and doors yet to be dug out. Vanilla skies. Impossibly large for the times and technologies, etc. I’ve searched the internet for photographs of workers at work on any building in Montana during the 19th century. I find photographs of miners, lumberjacks, farmers, ranchers, oil field workers, and housewives. But no serious photographs of masons and work on stone buildings. In fact, I’ve never known any person who comes from a family of stone masons in Montana, Oregon, or Washington (three states in the West in which I have resided). There are none because our people didn’t build them. Carroll college was founded, just like every land-grant college in the state and, probably elsewhere.

The most haunting photograph I discovered of such a founding is this one of Montana State University:

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Montana State University Founded​

So who founded Carroll College? None other than Bishop John Patrick Carroll (Second Bishop of the Diocese of Helena, Montana) . According to Wikipedia: “Carroll College is named for Bishop Carroll. He simultaneously built St. Helena’s Cathedral and started Carroll College during the first decade of the 20th Century.” (That we believe these stories…..).

Though the proof is not 100% (how can I produce such proof when dealing with secret societies and nobility), I strongly suspect that the reason Carroll O’Connor was in Montana was to learn the ways of the locals in a place intimately connected to his lineage. Any follower of Aplanetruth 4 u will note a further connection. Washington, DC was founded by the Carroll brothers in the 18th century. Bishop John Carroll (Archbishop of Baltimore) founded Washington, DC and Georgetown University in, then, Rome, Maryland. His family was one of the richest in America. He was a Jesuit. If this is not enough of a coincidence, Cardinal John O’Connor served as the Archbishop of New York from 1984-2000. Of course, The Carrolls and the O’Connors are in the peerage. The Carroll family is of particular historical importance insofar as the lineage of Bishop John Carroll traces straight back to Maolruanaidh “The Beard” O’Conner, King of Ely, Ireland-- 15th century. Norman Lear gained his first fame in the book Crew Umbriag, by Daniel P. Carroll.

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We have: John Carrolls and John O’Connor and O'Carrolls. And we have John Carroll O’Connor, or Archie Bunker that “lovable bigot.” It is truly “All in the Family.”
 
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From here.
Perspectives on Campus Planning
The most typical of the Old Main type, the central portion of St. Charles was the original building for Mount St. Charles College, the precursor to Carroll College. Designed by the Washington D.C.-based A.O. von Herbulis and built in stages from 1909 to 1924, St. Charles is the campus architectural icon, and its palette of red porphyry ashlar blocks with limestone trim and red tile roofs is repeated in several campus building
From the photographs here
Montana's Carroll College Bathroom Ghost

And here.
Carroll College Aerial Photoraph--view of west side of St. Charles Hall in 1937 - a photo on Flickriver
The aerial shot shows very clearly lower land to the rear of the building which matches the lower land to the front in yours. Thats on enormous amount of land cleared of mud without discovering any part or competely buried building save the one building you claim to be a mudflood building which actually sits upon the highest land in the photo.
 
I had a conversation today with a with a woman old enough to recall Archie Bunker. Knowing full well the effects of this show, she recalled with disdain its influence on her own family and others. The treatment of "Dingbat" or Edith by her husband Archie was atrocious. I'm sure this single show created more confusion and pain in American culture than can be measured. It is interesting to me insofar as I didn't see men behaving in such a manner when I was a kid. As I noted, it wasn't idyllic in the early 70s and certainly there are bad and miserable, for various reasons, characters in this world; but, the full onslaught of this kind of chaotic programming was yet to emerge. Based on the conversation, Archie Bunker (that is the intel agents behind it) probably provoked enough outrage to fuel many feminist manifestos. Mission accomplished.

After listening to Sage, I'm aware of but don't really know how to write about the energetic fields produced by ancient AI. I do know who some of the agents are; I also know the context was completely missing from the show. As we laughed at an idiot-supposed-to-be-us, de-industrialization was just around the corner. When that happened in the 1980s, the very basis of the American dream for working class people collapsed, only those in government and other, often, parasitic professions could afford to live as did Archie and Edith.

@Jd755, you might see Old World, Helena, Montana and @dreamtime on the Natatorium. Helena is a strange government city/town, with both a cathedral and a Mosque.
 
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Strange it might well be. However a building on a rise or hill is not one that has been dug up from 'the mud' and piut back into use.
As for Carrolls and the founding of the college, if I may make so bold, the mining "magnate" who stumped up most of the cash for the building thus financially backing Carroll would help you get to grips with this character and by extraction this town itself.
Someone paid for these buildings find the someone(s) probably find the 'whys' might help with understanding the where's, specifically.
 
I don't agree with your points. There is simply too much of what was beyond the means of our people at the time to be easily explained away.

Can a bot be programmed to dig around any issue and find the counter claim, no matter its plausibility, and enter it into the record. Hmm...
 
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Can a bot be programmed to dig around any issue and find the counter claim, no matter its plausibility, and enter it into the record. Hmm..
What are you on about?

Agree or not. Its obvious from the available photographs that specific building was not dug out and put back ito use.
 
Some "bits I uncovered.

From here; FamilySearch.org

He was married in Dublin Ireland in 1951 to Anne Kathleen Nancy Fields.

From here; How Carroll O'Connor Really Got The Part Of Archie Bunker - And The Battles Behind The Scenes - NewsBreak

In the late 1960s, O’Connor had settled comfortably in Italy, far from Hollywood politics and network pressures. So uncertain was he about the project’s future that he agreed to play Archie Bunker only after securing one crucial promise: if the pilot didn’t sell, the producers would pay to fly him straight back to Italy.

Upon her graduation, Nancy Fields came to Ireland and the two were married on July 28, 1951. And while O’Connor had no interest in becoming an actor — instead envisioning himself a professor of European history — he actually did do some acting while there and was discovered by producer Sheila Richards, who got him involved with Dublin’s Irish Players group. As he would tell The Los Angeles Times in 1972, “The press said I was the only American actor who ever worked in Ireland who could perform an Irish part faithfully, and they were correct.”

Returning to America, he got his start in an off Broadway production of James Joyce’s Ulysses, directed by Burgess Meredith (the Penguin from Adam West’s Batman TV show and Mickey from the Rocky franchise), followed a year later by a revival of Clifford Odets’ Big Knife. He would also appear in 20 movies between 1958’s The Defiant Ones and 1971’s Doctor’s Wives. Additionally, he made his television debut in the 1951 TV movie The Whiteheaded Boy, and then, between 1960 and 1971, starred in several others and made numerous episodic guest appearances.

From here; www.imdb.com/name/nm0005279
In 1946, he enrolled at the University of Montana to study English; while there he became interested in theater. During one of the amateur productions, he met Nancy Fields; they married in 1951. He moved to Ireland where he continued his theatrical studies at the National University of Ireland. He was discovered during one of his college productions and was signed to appear at the Dublin Gate Theater. He worked in theater in Europe until 1954, when he returned to New York City. His attempts to land on Broadway failed, and he taught high school until 1958, when he finally landed an Off-Broadway production, "Ulysses in Nighttown". He followed that with a Broadway production that was directed by [[Burgess Meredith]], "God and Kate Murphy", in which he was both an understudy and an assistant stage manager. At the same time, he was getting attention on TV. He worked in a great many character roles throughout the 1960s. A pilot for "Those Were The Days", based on the English hit "Till Death Us Do Part", was first shot in 1968 but was rejected by the networks. In 1971 it was re-cast and re-shot at All in the Family (1971) and the rest is history.

He adopted his only child, Hugh O'Connor, while in Rome filming Cleopatra (1963). He named him after his own brother, who had been killed years earlier in a motorcycle accident

Auditioned for the role of Skipper Jonah Grumby on Gilligan's Island (1964), but the producers found him to be too unsympathetic in the role, which went to Alan Hale Jr.

So where was he in the "late sixties" Ireland, Italy or the United States?
It would seem he was in and out of all three countries up until he got his signature role.

His family tree is available here; https://en.geneastar.org/genealogy/oconnorjohn/carroll-o-connor
 
Yeah, I'm really wondering if you are a bot. That's all. No offense.

What do you think about Archie Bunker and the rise of feminism as a reaction formation?
 
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What do you think about Archie Bunker and the rise of feminism as a reaction formation?
No idea what a reaction formation is. Never heard of the Archie Bunker character until I read your opening post. The show never made it over here.

However feminism is simply the undermining of the family. And by family I mean all living generations of the same family nurturing the babes they produce.
Reason being it is the one unit of true society men would kill for, if I may put it that way. With the family structure fractured, a society has been buikt where the few deign to control the many, ero the prevailing state of affairs.

Not bad or a presumed "bot" eh. Just wait till you see the AI enhanced version of "me"!!!

I asked pushamaku if he would 'unban' me and he kindly agreed. Thats why there is a huge gap in my contributions here. I wanted to try and enliven this place to keep it from going silent and dive into the archive as my thoughts on some 'things historical' have changed.
 
Welcome to "life"!

Archie Bunker was only a small bit of the onslaught, but it was bad. What's more, it ties into the events of 2020. For as women got angry, feminism took off. In the process, women overcame their own mothers, only to find themselves lost.

In 2020, I felt the rage everywhere. It wasn't just "protect yourself for everyone's sake." No! It was much, much more sinister. Trained and programmed to hate everyone, except their beautiful selves (or souls), women in Seattle (where I lived at the time) went on a rampage. They hated people like me the most. It was awful. It was also interesting. Meanwhile, their men were totally flummoxed. They didn't know what to do. A couple guys, like my insurance agent and director of the local aquatic center, told me about their wives who worked for the city. They feared their wives! A little fear is always OK-- people are powerful beings. This is called respect. But by 2020 these guys were totally neutered (see, Castration, Circumcision, and Transgenderism from Antiquity to Today-- in fact, this thread could well be considered a footnote). Even though they knew what I was saying was true, they didn't dare do anything.
 
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Though the proof is not 100% (how can I produce such proof when dealing with secret societies and nobility), I strongly suspect that the reason Carroll O’Connor was in Montana was to learn the ways of the locals in a place intimately connected to his lineage. Any follower of Aplanetruth 4 u will note a further connection. Washington, DC was founded by the Carroll brothers in the 18th century. Bishop John Carroll (Archbishop of Baltimore) founded Washington, DC and Georgetown University in, then, Rome, Maryland. His family was one of the richest in America. He was a Jesuit. If this is not enough of a coincidence, Cardinal John O’Connor served as the Archbishop of New York from 1984-2000. Of course, The Carrolls and the O’Connors are in the peerage. The Carroll family is of particular historical importance insofar as the lineage of Bishop John Carroll traces straight back to Maolruanaidh “The Beard” O’Conner, King of Ely, Ireland-- 15th century. Norman Lear gained his first fame in the book Crew Umbriag, by Daniel P. Carroll.

Can you provide alternate links to the YouTube videos in the paragraph above? Seems the censors already removed them. *shakes fist*
 
I think James W. Lee died-- but I may be wrong. His books are here. He changed youtube channels due to censorship. 2 channels remain, 3 and 16.. I don't see anything on Jesuits, an area he covered years ago, in what remains. But you might try here and here.
 
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