Collecting Historical clues for calendar manipulation

[FarewellAngelina]

Just had a gander at the famous Prague Astronomical Clock which was constructed in 1410.

Here is the AI answer to the question I asked - Was this clock originally an Astrolabe? - the reply was

"Yes, the Prague Astronomical Clock was originally designed as an astrolabe. Its astronomical dial, installed in 1410, is a mechanical astrolabe—a medieval instrument used to model the universe and track celestial movements. It displays the positions of the Sun and Moon, the zodiac, and various time systems, functioning as a geocentric representation of the cosmos. Historical records and multiple sources confirm that the clock was described at the time of its completion as an astrolabe clock, making it one of the oldest surviving examples of this type of device in operation.

When the Prague Astronomical Clock was installed in 1410, its primary function was not simply to tell time, but to serve as a mechanical model of the universe, accurately reflecting celestial movements — especially the position of the Sun. It was calibrated using sundials to show true solar time, meaning it marked local apparent noon (when the Sun is highest in the sky) with precision. "


Now since it's 1912 and 1948 reconstruction/desecrations it has turned into a 24hr CET time piece.
The 24hr clock is the big heliocentric deception in my view.

 

[Breizh]

The 24hr clock is the big heliocentric deception in my view.

The Ethiopian variable time system is pretty wise imo:

The Ethiopian time is unique. Instead of the 24-hour clock used in most parts of the world, Ethiopians use a 12-hour clock that starts at sunrise (which is 1:00 on the clock) and ends at sunset (which is 12:00 on the clock). This means that the time of day is constantly changing throughout the year, with longer days in the summer and shorter days in the winter. Ethiopians also divide the day into two cycles of 12 hours each, with the first cycle starting at sunrise and the second cycle starting at sunset.

 

[FarewellAngelina]

The Ethiopian variable time system is pretty wise imo:

Yes . Don't the length of each hour vary accordingly as the day/night cycle progresses through the year . I'm sure this was mentioned in the chat about the Prague clock - it originally included a few "clocks" from various civilisations.

 

[Frostychud]

I am copying and Google translating (with corrections) the following interesting post about Scaliger from the Facebook page of the French recentist Anthelme Arvière:

The Joseph Justus Scaliger character project, or the partial investigation carried out by Recentists to save the entire "History" enterprise.​

​

Officially, Joseph Justus Scaliger published his conclusions in 1583 in his work Opus Novum de Emendatione Temporum (Work on the Improvement of Time Measurement). Although many sources claim that the term Julian refers to Scaliger's father, Julius Caesar Scaliger, it is clearly stated in the introduction to Book V of his work that "Iulianam vocauimus: quia ad annum Iulianum dumtaxat accomodata est," which can be translated as "We have called it Julian simply because it fits the Julian year." So, Julian refers to Julius Caesar, who introduced the Julian calendar in 46 BC.​

​

We can start with a simple Ngram search for the expression "emendatione temporum," which only shows up at the beginning of the 18th century. A work of such importance, admittedly in Latin, should have appeared much earlier, and yet...​

Still on the subject of chronology, if we try to see when the debate between the Julian and Gregorian calendars arises in literature, we find that it only begins in the middle of the 18th century (if we disregard the fictitious, antedated entries that appear disproportionate and very sporadic in the 16th and 17th centuries).​

​

In reality, the calendar was fixed as follows:​

At the index (1500): 10 fixed months + 2 lunar months (Janus and Fèves) + the Kalends of March to reset the beginning of the year to Easter (March 1st).​

In 1530-1540, the calendar was 365 days: Hence the 10-day discrepancy around 1582 (later incorrectly corrected by the Catholic Church).​

In 1582, the calendar was 365 days + 1/4: February 29th was added every 4 years. A correction of 10 days in the wrong direction... which resulted in the Protestants refusing to adopt these 10 days, and from this comes the Spring Equinox shifted by 20 days relative to March 1st (initial start of the year - 10 days of error in the wrong direction = 20 days of error).​

​

In 1700 (shortly before), at 365 days + 1/4 - 1/100: February 29th was eliminated every 100 years.​

​

Later, 365 days + 1/4 - 1/100 + 1/400: Hence the presence of February 29th in 2000... and thus justifying February 29th in 1600, which also occurred in a simple 365-day + 1/4 configuration.​

​

One commenter notes the irony: "Ironically, this falsifier of history is a fake himself"

So Arvière situates the beginning of the calendar in the year 1500/1492, just like Alexander Tamansky and Andrey Pustogarov. Interestingly, all three have different explanations for how and why the year 1500/1492 was chosen as a starting point, but they all agree that that was the year. Arvière notes somewhere that the 15 was originally an iS, so the first year was iS01, but I still haven't found out what his explanation is as I am still going through his Facebook content.

The idea that the 10 extra days that had accumulated by 1582 are due to the leap year not being observed for forty years is simple, elegant, and much more plausible than the mainstream explanation, which is that this lag was the result of not subtracting a leap year every hundred years.

 

[Frostychud]

Today is Easter. I'm sitting in a hipster coffee shop in a globalized New World Order city and it occurs to me that half of the people in here probably don't even know it's Easter.

What I've learned from this and other threads is that the original European calendars hinged on this date. If we are to believe history, people shed blood over it.

What is Easter? It must have its origin in the spring equinox. It announces the beginning of the "good times".

The Roman calendar supposedly only included three hundred days. Since there was no agriculture in winter, there was no reason to count the winter days. (Kind of like the school year in which summer is not counted.) This would therefore mean that there were also no days of the week during this time. I can imagine that Easter Sunday, the day of the Sun, which even I learned was the first day of the week as a child, was the day on which the calendar began again. This would have been March 1. It had to have been March 1. The only other possibility would be March 15. Even today, February has a variable number of days because it was once the last month of the year.

How did Easter become disconnected from the spring equinox? Logic dictates it should be simple. Use some sort of landmark or monument to mark the exact spot on the horizon where the sun rises on the spring equinox. Call that day Sunday and start the calendar. Count the number of days until the next equinox.

How did it get so convoluted?

The lunar calendar must have preceded the solar calendar. First of all, it's easier to observe. Anyone can look up and see what phase the moon is in. Literacy and numeracy are not required to follow the lunar calendar, as they are with the solar calendar.

The lunar and solar calendars are out of sync. At a time of mass innumeracy and illiteracy, the function of articulating the two would have been entrusted to priesthoods who alone possessed the "magical power" to predict the return of the sun and determine agricultural rhythms.

If your primary calendar is lunar, the spring equinox falls on a different day every year, and requires some calculation.

I learned that ancient people were so dumb that they believed the sun wouldn't return unless they performed magic rituals. I learned that this was some kind of spontaneous collective superstition. I think it is much more likely that they were less dumb than gullible, and the timekeeper priests (time = tempo = temple) brainwashed them into believing that.

Did the priests convince the people that only they had the power to bring the sun back, and only on condition that the slaves paid up in some way? Is this how astronomy was first converted into power and money?

More evidence that the Aztec sun-worship religion was a Jewish colonization scheme from the beginning.

A 100% solar calendar would have necessarily democratized timekeeping and eroded the prestige of the temple priesthoods, which is probably one reason why the solar calendar generated so much resistance. In a world in which peasants can count, no one needs priests to tell them when to plant their crops, at least as long as you have some way of marking the spring equinox. Considering that leap years only occur once every four years, it would take decades before anyone began to notice that solar years are slightly longer than 365 days. Anthelme Arviere's explanation of the Gregorian Reform of 1582 which I shared in the previous post is especially logical for this reason. He believes that the Julian calendar was only introduced a few decades earlier than the Gregorian calendar, and that the Gregorian "patch" was added the first time anyone noticed that the spring equinox was "wandering". There were no calendars before the 16th century, or at least no solar calendars.

The Gregorian Reform had nothing to do with the precession of the equinoxes, which takes thousands of years to affect the calendar. My guess is that precession was discovered later (if it is even real) and used to justify the artificially lengthened chronology. There was no 2148-year "age of Taurus". That stuff was all invented later as mystification.

CONTINUED IN NEXT POST

 

[Frostychud]

CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST

The Catholic Church jumps through serious hoops to make sure that Easter and Passover do not coincide. Why?

Passover is calculated in a much more straightforward way than Easter. It occurs on the first full moon on Nisan, which always falls on the 15th day, since the Hebrew calendar is lunar. This lunar calendar is kept in sync with the solar calendar by adding a 13th month 7 out of every 19 years. This is called the metonic cycle.

Meanwhile, the Islamic calendar is purely lunar, with no leap months, which is why Ramadan moves by about ten days every year.

Official history tells us that the lunisolar Hebrew calendar came first, followed by the Roman solar calendar, followed by the Islamic lunar calendar.

This makes no sense at all.

Logically, the lunar calendar must have come first, the lunisolar calendar must have come second, and the purely solar calendar last. Mainstream history cannot accept this because Jewish, Roman, and Muslim history were broken up and sent back to different fabricated historical periods that are out of order. Not only that, they fabricated all these Babylonians and Sumerians who were supposedly master astronomers.

Passover is defined by a full moon. This suggests to me that the calendar must have started on that day, just as the Christian calendar must have started on the spring equinox itself, which was defined as the first Sunday. It occasionally happens that Passover occurs on the second full moon after the spring equinox (by just a day or two), but I suspect that this only began to happen after the calendar was "solarized" to an extent that was not the case originally. It must have started as "first full moon after the equinox".

I am trying to use logic to reconstruct this, not documents. Reality and history are not always logical, but sometimes logic can suggest how, why, and when certain things might have been changed.

So Passover always occurs on a full moon. It is a lunar holiday, and presumably it was the day the calendar began anew every year. Nisan is the first month in the Bible, as March was the first month. The moon's day is Monday, whereas the Jewish Sabbath is Saturday. "Sabbath" comes from the word "Sabbatai" which just means "Saturn". That seems illogical.

Thinking about the word Sabbath, it hits a little differently when you think of it as a "Saturnth" (like moon -> month).

Julius Caesar (himself probably some kind of astrotheological cutout) was supposedly killed on the Ides of March, which translates as Passover (15 Nisan).

According to Wiki there's a Buddhist holiday called "Uposatha" which is celebrated four times in the lunar month, so roughly every seven days. It appears to correspond to the Sabbath in many ways. "Uposatha" sort of looks like the word "Sabbath" rearranged. I may be stretching here.

So what I find myself wondering is: was the moon the original Saturn, and the Sun the original Jupiter? I never understood how and why the Sun and the Moon were lumped in together with the five other classical planets, which are just wandering lights. It doesn't make sense. The Sun and the Moon are huge and dominate life on Earth. They are the exact same size in the sky (this detail alone causes me to doubt our official cosmology). The planets are barely visible and affect nothing. The fact that they wander in the sky as opposed to the fixed stars would probably have been perceived as a minor anomaly, nothing more, without the whole astrology brainwash imposed by the priests.

So here is what I am imagining. The Jewish calendar is indeed older than the Catholic calendar. Both of the exoteric stories associated with this holiest of days are metaphors for the sun returning after an exile. Jesus is reborn, and Moses leads his people out of "Egypt" (=winter) after a period of suffering. But when I think about it, the Christian Easter holiday seems to correspond better to the winter solstice. Why? Because God dies and then returns three days later. If Easter were a true solar allegory, Jesus would return to life months after dying, not days (e.g., the Persephone myth). However, the fact that he is only dead for three days lines up pretty well with the solstice (death of the Sun) and the first observably longer day (a few days later).

Was the original religion one in which Passover and Easter were both celebrated, with Passover occurring around the spring equinox and Easter occurring around the winter solstice? Is today's Christmas nothing but a kind of ersatz Easter that replaced the original one after it was cut out of the original religion and moved to springtime?

Is Christmas still more popular than Easter for this reason?

When the Catholic Church became Christian and broke away from the previous universal religion, did they promote Jesus above Moses and move Easter to the spring equinox as a kind of "rival Passover" the same way McDonald's will open a store next door to Burger King to put the competition out of business? In Islam, Christ is a prophet, but he is not God. Was this the original religion?

Boba Fett was a huge fan favorite in the original Star Wars trilogy despite having little screen time. He was so popular that George Lucas decided to give him an entire film in the second trilogy. Is this what the Catholic Church did? Was Jesus the "Boba Fett" of the original religion, a secondary character who so popular that he was given a starring role in the "sequel"?

The reason the Catholic Church made it so complicated to date Easter is because they really did not want it to fall on the same date as Passover...ever. I take this as a sign that they were trying to put the old religion "out of business".

So:

Easter - solar - Sunday
Passover - lunar - Saturday

Again, if the original name for the moon were Saturn, then this makes more sense.

We also have all the "Greek" mythology around Jupiter replacing Saturn as the top God. If Jupiter and Saturn are the Sun and Moon, this makes some kind of intuitive sense. But if they were just wandering specks of light...not really.

The Electric Universe people think that Saturn might have been our original sun, and who knows, maybe this is true.

Or maybe it is simpler than that, and the myths about Jupiter replacing Saturn just refer to the moment the Roman Church launched their new rival religion with a new God, a new Sabbath day, and a new calendar. In other words, Jupiter was the original name of the Sun, and Saturn was the original name of the Moon. This is why Kronos, the Greek Saturn (banished by Jupiter), was associated with timekeeping. You can't use Saturn to keep time, but you can use the moon.

I have no evidence for this. I am just brainstorming.

I can't imagine the planets being elevated to the same rank as the Sun and the Moon until telescopes were invented.

Moses used to be represented with horns, which can symbolize the lunar crescent. His name is also similar to the word for "month" in several languages (in French, for example, month is "mois" and Moses is "Moïse"). The sickle of Saturn also looks like a crescent moon. Was Moses the full Passover moon leading the Sun back into summertime? Was this primordial inversion of the natural order (the moon leading the sun rather than vice versa) the basis upon which the entire architecture of priestly deception was founded?

Chris Jon Bjerknes, the scholar and critic of Kabbalistic Judaism, claims that the moon is the great symbol of Judaism.

TLDR: My idea is that the original calendar was lunar. The original name for the Moon was Saturn. The Sabbath (Saturnth) was celebrated on the four "corners" of the lunar month. When the solar year was discovered, the lunar calendar became obsolete, but the priests who administered it did not want to lose their monopoly on sacralizing time. Christ, the Sun, the Son, Jupiter, replaced Moses, the Moon, the Father, Saturn, as the pre-eminent deity. A new priesthood emerged around this new calendar and this new pantheon. Later, when telescopes were invented, the five visible wandering stars were retroactively elevated to the status of "planets" and the whole esoteric cosmology about the seven spheres, etc. was elaborated, mostly to brainwash peasants.

Happy Easter!

 

[Tomkat]

CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST

The Catholic Church jumps through serious hoops to make sure that Easter and Passover do not coincide. Why?

Passover is calculated in a much more straightforward way than Easter. It occurs on the first full moon on Nisan, which always falls on the 15th day, since the Hebrew calendar is lunar. This lunar calendar is kept in sync with the solar calendar by adding a 13th month 7 out of every 19 years. This is called the metonic cycle.

Meanwhile, the Islamic calendar is purely lunar, with no leap months, which is why Ramadan moves by about ten days every year.

Official history tells us that the lunisolar Hebrew calendar came first, followed by the Roman solar calendar, followed by the Islamic lunar calendar.

This makes no sense at all.

Logically, the lunar calendar must have come first, the lunisolar calendar must have come second, and the purely solar calendar last. Mainstream history cannot accept this because Jewish, Roman, and Muslim history were broken up and sent back to different fabricated historical periods that are out of order. Not only that, they fabricated all these Babylonians and Sumerians who were supposedly master astronomers.

Passover is defined by a full moon. This suggests to me that the calendar must have started on that day, just as the Christian calendar must have started on the spring equinox itself, which was defined as the first Sunday. It occasionally happens that Passover occurs on the second full moon after the spring equinox (by just a day or two), and I suspect that this only began to happen after the calendar was "solarized" to an extent that was not the case originally.

I am trying to use logic to reconstruct this, not documents. Reality is not always logical, but sometimes logic can suggest how, why, and when certain things might have been changed.

So Passover always occurs on a full moon. It is a lunar holiday, and presumably it was the day the calendar began anew every year. Nisan is the first month in the Bible. The moon's day is Monday, whereas the Jewish Sabbath is Saturday. "Sabbath" comes from the word "Sabbatai" which just means "Saturn". That seems illogical.

According to Wiki there's a Buddhist holiday called "Uposatha" which is celebrated four times in the lunar month, so roughly every seven days. It appears to correspond to the Sabbath in many ways. "Uposatha" sort of looks like the word "Sabbath" rearranged. I may be stretching here.

So what I find myself wondering is: was the moon the original Saturn, and the Sun the original Jupiter? I never understood how and why the Sun and the Moon were lumped in together with the five other classical planets, which are just wandering lights. It doesn't make sense. The Sun and the Moon are huge and dominate life on Earth. They are the exact same size in the sky (this detail alone causes me to doubt our official cosmology). The planets are barely visible and affect nothing. The fact that they wander in the sky as opposed to the fixed stars would probably have been perceived as a minor anomaly, nothing more, without the whole astrology brainwash imposed by the priests.

So here is what I am imagining. The Jewish calendar is indeed older than the Catholic calendar. Both of the exoteric stories associated with this holiest of days are metaphors for the sun returning after an exile. Jesus is reborn, and Moses leads his people out of "Egypt" (=winter) after a period of suffering. But when I think about it, the Christian Easter holiday seems to correspond better to the winter solstice. Why? Because God dies and then returns three days later. If Easter were a true solar allegory, Jesus would return to life months after dying, not days. However, the fact that he is only dead for three days lines up pretty well with the solstice (death of the Sun) and the first observably longer day (a few days later).

Was the original religion one in which Passover and Easter were both celebrated, with Passover occurring around the spring equinox and Easter occurring around the winter solstice? Is today's Christmas nothing but a kind of ersatz Easter that replaced the original one after it was cut out of the original religion and moved to springtime?

When the Catholic Church became Christian and broke away from the previous universal religion, did they promote Jesus above Moses and move Easter to the spring equinox as a kind of "rival Passover" the same way McDonald's will open a store next door to Burger King to put the competition out of business? In Islam, Christ is a prophet, but he is not God. Was this the original religion?

Boba Fett was a huge fan favorite in the original Star Wars trilogy despite having little screen time. He was so popular that George Lucas decided to give him an entire film in the second trilogy. Is this what the Catholic Church did? Was Jesus the "Boba Fett" of the original religion, a secondary character who so popular that he was given a starring role in the "sequel"?

The reason the Catholic Church made it so complicated to date Easter is because they really did not want it to fall on the same date as Passover...ever. I take this as a sign that they were trying to put the old religion "out of business".

So:

Easter - solar - Sunday
Passover - lunar - Saturday

Again, if the original name for the moon were Saturn, then this makes more sense.

We also have all the "Greek" mythology around Jupiter replacing Saturn as the top God. If Jupiter and Saturn are the Sun and Moon, this makes some kind of intuitive sense. But if they were just wandering specks of light...not really.

The Electric Universe people think that Saturn might have been our original sun, and who knows, maybe this is true.

Or maybe it is simpler than that, and the myths about Jupiter replacing Saturn just refer to the moment the Roman Church launched their new rival religion with a new God, a new Sabbath day, and a new calendar. In other words, Jupiter was the original name of the Sun, and Saturn was the original name of the Moon. This is why Kronos, the Greek Saturn (banished by Jupiter), was associated with timekeeping. You can't use Saturn to keep time, but you can use the moon.

I have no evidence for this. I am just brainstorming.

I can't imagine the planets being elevated to the same rank as the Sun and the Moon until telescopes were invented.

Moses used to be represented with horns, which can symbolize the lunar crescent. His name is also similar to the word for "month" in several languages (in French, for example, month is "mois" and Moses is "Moïse"). The sickle of Saturn also looks like a crescent moon. Was Moses the full Passover moon leading the Sun back into summertime?

Chris Jon Bjerknes, the scholar and critic of Kabbalistic Judaism, claims that the moon is the great symbol of Judaism.

TLDR: My hypothesis is that the original calendar was lunar. The original name for the Moon was Saturn. The Sabbath was celebrated on the four "corners" of the lunar month. When the solar year was discovered, the lunar calendar became obsolete, but the priests who administered it did not want to lose their monopoly on sacralizing time. Christ, the Sun, the Son, Jupiter, replaced Moses, the Moon, the Father, Saturn, as the pre-eminent deity. A new priesthood emerged around this new calendar and this new pantheon. Later, when telescopes were invented, the five visible wandering stars were retroactively elevated to the status of "planets" and the whole esoteric cosmology about the seven spheres, etc. was elaborated, mostly to brainwash peasants.

Happy Easter!

Love this, thanks Frostychud

 

[moyal]

...How did Easter become disconnected from the spring equinox? Logic dictates it should be simple. Use some sort of landmark or monument to mark the exact spot on the horizon where the sun rises on the spring equinox. Call that day Sunday and start the calendar. Count the number of days until the next equinox.

How did it get so convoluted?

@Frostychud:
First of all, I would like to thank you for the excellent summaries of the theories and works of various unknown and obscure authors that you have posted here in various forum threads. Second, I don't write much here, because I'm just a interested layperson when it comes to chronology criticism and my ability to express myself in English isn't great anyway.

Regarding the statements I quoted above, I would like to offer some brief points for consideration.

When one delves into the unknown and forgotten works of German occultists and Ariosophists, one encounters the following line of thought:

- There is a contrast between the numerical/unit of measurement/calendar systems of the (postulated) original Nordic/Aryan/Hyperborean peoples and those of the later church-indoctrinated systems, which are based on a system with a more geographically southern origin (the Mediterranean region). As far as I understand, this has to do with the calculation of day and night hours and orientation by the cardinal directions (particularly important for deep-sea ocean navigation to Iceland, Greenland, etc.). Northern and southern regions differ in how long the sun remains above the horizon on a specific day of the year (polar night and midnight sun).

- The Nordic system is based on the number 4 as the base number, while the Southern system is based on the number 3.
The compass rose used in navigation is a remnant of the northern system. The clock face is a remnant of the southern system.

Two books that offer interesting insights along these lines:
- Roland Dionys Jossé: "Die Tala der Raunen - Runo-astrologische Kabbalistik" (1955)
(there is sadly no translation in English language for this one, I think)

- Otto Sigfried Reuter: "Germanische Himmelskunde" (1934) / "Der Himmel über den Germanen" (1936)
This is the more important one and I found this online translation of "Der Himmel über den Germanen" here:
-> Base < Reuter: Himmel/Skylore