SH Archive Hotel New Netherland & Sherry Netherland Hotel

[KD Archive]

Built in 1892-93 to a design by William H. Hume for William Waldorf Astor, its original lessee was Ferdinand P. Earle. The structure was 234 feet (71 m) in height with 17 stories, making it the "tallest hotel structure in the world". The structure was among the first steel-framed buildings in the city and it enjoyed a reputation for being a very fashionable hotel and location in its day. It was classified as a luxury hotel, rather than one with apartment accommodations as it provided permanent accommodations to its residents, albeit without kitchens. Meals were served in the hotel's dining room, the Louis Sherry restaurant.

• Hotel New Netherland - Wikipedia
• Larger Image

Hotel New Netherland

Renamed the Hotel Netherland in 1908, the neo-Romanesque structure was razed in 1927, replaced by the Sherry Netherland Hotel.

• Larger Image

Sherry Netherland Hotel

​

Figure this out:

• Demolition began in the early winter of 1926, and construction began before the year was out, but the upper floors suffered a spectacular fire when wooden scaffolding caught alight on April 12, 1927 before the building was completed. ​
• In March 1927, construction was almost completed and the property was turned over to Louis Sherry, Inc. ​
• Source of the above info.​

KD: If I'm reading this correctly, than some time in December of 1926 they demolished the old hotel (The Netherlands) and in March 1927 the new hotel (The Sherry-Netherland) was "almost complete".

• 4 months to demolish, clean up and build a new one.
• Is my math wrong?

Oh, and by the way, did they simply "uglify" a beautiful structure? Opinions?

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[Bunnyman]

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Username: Bunnyman
Date: 2020-06-09 03:37:54
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Every time my eyes behold such beautiful structures it strikes a cord in me somehow. The many magnificent buildings that were at one time, and have been savagely razed, seem almost to have been impervious to decay. Our surroundings certainly have been spuriously "uglyfied". Dragging down our capacity for imagination and virtue.

I think KD you again point out inconsistencies in the narrative that seem spot on. It ain't right.

 

[DanFromMN]

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Username: DanfromMN
Date: 2020-06-09 03:44:37
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Nope. Cant say that I agree with the narrative.

Every time my eyes behold such beautiful structures it strikes a cord in me somehow. The many magnificent buildings that were at one time, and have been savagely raised, seem almost to have been impervious to decay. Our surroundings certainly have been spuriously "uglyfied". Dragging down our capacity for imagination and virtue.

I think KD you again point out inconsistencies in the narrative that seem spot on. It ain't right.

Maybe it's a genetic memory of seeing g things like this before you were here this time

 

[5thGradeKid]

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Username: 5thGradeKid
Date: 2020-06-09 04:52:24
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Such a common theme... why tear down a building such as these at all? Maybe it was burned down partially By angry rioters? The new one shares similar features, but not as elegantly...

 

[BStankman]

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Username: BStankman
Date: 2020-06-09 09:04:47
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There is a not quite convincing record of the 1927 scaffold fire.
More historic photos of 59th and 5th in the link, zoomable.

OldNYC



Fire which destroyed scaffolding on tower of incomplete Sherry- Netherland Hotel, Fifth Avenue at N.E. corner of 59th Street. No damage was done to the structure itself. April 12, 1927.

 

[igneous]

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Username: igneous
Date: 2020-06-09 16:12:50
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This is bananas. I cannot find any photos of the destruction of The Netherland Hotel in NYC,. I also cannot find any photos of the CONSTRUCTION of the Sherry-Netherland. This was the only thing I found that I can add to this conversation (after 1.5 hrs of looking)

In 1926 there is no internet, there is no TV. One would think the DESTRUCTION of a huge building would generate some sort of commentary, either verbal or photographic.

 

[Archive]

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Username: jd755
Date: 2020-06-09 17:12:58
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The first one is a definitely a steel framed building with cladding & masonry, (found on a site about NY architecture whose name escapes me) well what if they didn't demolish the thing just took the roof off, knocked the cladding off, added some more framing new walls etc & then put new cladding on basically an upgrade in capacity of the original hotel?
Or maybe they simply took the roof of and went up with the extra floors and reclad the entire thing.

My guess is possibly this sort of consruction or reconstruction was so commonplace in NY at the time that it may not have been that newsworthy.. What year did the depression hit NY and what else was occupying the newspapers of the day?
Perhaps a walk into archives is in order for someone more local than I. Reliance on digital is not the way to go as gets proved so often on here.

Getting away from wikiwakiallmadeup is useful to.

The remarkable hotel made news far outside New York City. Maine’s The Lewiston Evening Journal announced on June 1, 1893 “The New Netherland is a magnificent structure, 17 stories high, of dull, yellowish brick, with brownstone trimmings. The entrance is imposing and broad, with massive carved stone pillars supporting the portico. It is a palace for a king, magnificent in its appointments, solid and durable as the ages.”

Calling the hotel “elegant, “ the newspaper said “But the parlors surpass in beauty and magnificence of furnishing everything in the hotel. They open directly into the hall and connect with each other. There is one that is especially unique and beautiful, and that is the empire room. Their [sic] furniture is upholstered in the prevailing tints and the magnificent rugs harmonize with the whole.”

The Evening World chimed in, saying that the 370-room New Netherlands was even finer than the Waldorf. “Of the series of Astor hotels which have so far been erected in New York the New Netherlands is, architecturally, the most magnificent. It is, indeed, considered by many persons the most wonderful hotel structure in the world.”

The day following the opening, The New York Times commented on the technical advances, including the fire alarm. “As a precaution against fire telemeters are connected with each room by which, whenever the temperature rises higher than 130 [degrees], the annunciator tells that fact to the office.”

The Times reported on the painted ceilings, the many oil paintings and tapestries, and the marble, onyx and hardwood trimmings. “The general effect is of substantial elegance, and a degree of taste has been displayed which leaves no room for criticism as to over finish.”

Unfortunately for Ferdinand Earle, his extravagant outlays for silver, antiques, artwork and furnishings were more than the hotel could provide in income. In March, less than a year after the opening, Earle was no longer able to pay the rent and, as The Evening World worded it on April 6, “he was evicted from the palatial New Netherlands Hotel.”

 

[KD Archive]

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Username: KorbenDallas
Date: 2020-06-09 17:36:11
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what if they didn't demolish the thing just took the roof off, knocked the cladding off, added some more framing new walls etc & then put new cladding on basically an upgrade in capacity of the original hotel?

My OP thoughts exactly. This is probably very similar to this Walla Walla building transformation mentioned in the below thread.

• Mud Flood evidence in the City of Port Townsend, WA

This could explain the speed of construction. If that’s the case, what’s the purpose of the lie?

They clearly want to demonstrate that they built this building from the ground up.

What did they strip the old building off in the process.

 

[Archive]

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Username: jd755
Date: 2020-06-09 18:01:57
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If that’s the case, what’s the purpose of the lie?

Welcome back & good question.

As the 20th century dawned, the hulking Victorian hotels of a generation earlier lost favor. In 1905 the Plaza Hotel was demolished and in its place Hardenberg’s lavish new Plaza was erected. The handsome French Renaissance palace stood in stark contrast to the dour brick-and-brownstone New Netherlands across the plaza.

The speed of build does favour a reconstruction on the existing as for the lie to my mind a hotel that is closed is not generating profit so the shortest route to profit is the best from a financial standpoint but who would could promote a half new half old hotel and fill it?
True it went from a residental hotel in the original incarnation to an apartment hotel in the second coming so the 'quality' of the clientele changed a bit but even so a half n half would be a hard sell when new was all the rage.
Developers have been known to pull all sorts of stunts to sell sell sell, perhaps this is just another example of said stunts.

 

[KD Archive]

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Username: KorbenDallas
Date: 2020-06-09 19:39:46
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It’s all good, but how do you fool the locals who for example had a chance to observe the renovation vs. demolition and brand new construction.

When was the narrative originated? When we talk about some mid-18th century events, that’s one thing. But 1926-27... some people are still alive.

 

[Archive]

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Username: jd755
Date: 2020-06-09 20:06:00
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It’s all good, but how do you fool the locals who for example had a chance to observe the renovation vs. demolition and brand new construction.

When was the narrative originated? When we talk about some mid-18th century events, that’s one thing. But 1926-27... some people are still alive.

Perhaps the physical newspapers of 1926-7 could shed some light on actual events of the day.
Given the buildings location demolition to the ground would have to be carried out carefully to say the least & I would argue not possible in the stated time frame.
Perhaps they simply shrouded the building in netting hessian or plywood even to minimize prying eyes & the workforce could have been from out of state perchance just thoughts that come to mind.
Maybe it was known to the locals as a rebuild but the media of the day were in the know & bought to some extent. Astor was a very influential clan with intriguing connections, actually they still are.

Mind I am convinced there were just two Olympic class ships built in reality & somehow the story of the third came into being, in print primarily, just to illustrate where my thinking originates regarding this hotel rebuild. Certainly from all the images I've looked at today the rebuild scenario is quite evident.

Another thing that has just struck me, why keep the Netherland part of the first hotel's name?
Seems an odd thing to do, new hotel brand new name would make sense but the only sense I can make is the Netherland was kept as the bulk of the hotel remained in the 'new' one & possibly both were known locally as the Netherland.

 

[DanFromMN]

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Username: DanfromMN
Date: 2020-06-09 21:09:07
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They could have just said an airplane hit it. Someone who hated our freedom flew an airplane into it and we have to rebuild it.

 

[KD Archive]

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Username: KorbenDallas
Date: 2020-06-09 23:20:21
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Perhaps the physical newspapers of 1926-7 could shed some light on actual events of the day.

I am not sure about the actual newspapers but there are plenty of various pubs out there dated with 1927-28. Here is one of those.

Here is another one, from here.

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Here is where we get more interesting stuff. Right next to our Sherry-Netherland Hotel we can see the Savoy Plaza Hotel.

Here is how Savoy Hotel history goes:

• The original Savoy Hotel at Fifth Avenue and 59th Street opened in June 1892, more or less in answer to the neighboring Plaza Hotel opened in 1890. The original 12-story Savoy was designed by architect Ralph S. Townsend, for landowners including New York Supreme Court Justice P. Henry Dugro. The old Savoy continued to compete with the Plaza in lavish surroundings and expansions into the 1920s. Its furnishings were liquidated in 1925.

As far as I understand these were the insides of the first Savoy Hotel.

1895 Savoy Hotel Ball Room

Source


Source: The Lost 1892 Hotel Savoy - 5th Ave and 59th St

Harry S. Black, owner of the Plaza, bought the Savoy Hotel, consolidated the block, and demolished it to commission a newer companion to the older establishment from the architects of the Plaza.

• On November 28, 1925 its demolition was announced.

The 33-story, 420-foot (130 m) skyscraper hotel was designed by McKim, Mead & White, built for some $30 million, and opened on October 1, 1927.

• By the time of its completion in 1927 the new Hotel Savoy rose 33 stories.
• This new 1927 Savoy PLaza Hotel was demolished in 1965.

At the same time, in support this "demolition" version the remains of the old Vanderbilt Residence are right here.

As far as I understand, this is the house that we see demolished in the above image.

• It was sold in 1926 and demolished.
• Cornelius Vanderbilt II House - Wikipedia

Source

Bergdorf Goodman building below replaced the structure above.

Essentially we have three major structures "demolished" and three major structures "built" next to each other (from scratch) between 1926 and 1928.

• The Sherry Netherland Hotel
• The Savoy Plaza Hotel
• Bergdorf Goodman Luxury Department Store

That is allegedly, for I have hard time picturing the required logistics. And frankly... just read this.

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Of course, we have these immortal words.