SH Archive Presidential photographs of Ulysses S. Grant... where are they?

[KD Archive]

On March 4, 1869, Ulysses S. Grant was sworn in as the eighteenth President of the United States by Chief Justice Salmon P. Chase.

In Office: March 4, 1869 – March 4, 1877

President U.S. Grant by Brady 1870​

In his inaugural address, Grant urged the ratification of the Fifteenth Amendment, while large numbers of African Americans attended his inauguration. He also urged that bonds issued during the Civil War should be paid in gold and called for "proper treatment" of Native Americans and encouraged their "civilization and ultimate citizenship".

Grant's inauguration... allegedly...
March 4, 1869

Inauguration of President U.S. Grant, Capitol building steps.
by Brady March 4, 1869​

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U.S. Grant spent 8 years as the President of the United States. That would be from 1869 until 1877. Where are any photographs related to his presidency? We have tons of ridiculous images looking similar to the ones below.

• General Grant vs President Grant... same room, same tablecloth, same vase, same carpet, same pants, same shoes, probably the same books... how many years apart?​

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Do we have any photographs suggesting that Mr. Grant was involved in any activities presidents normally get involved in? Something similar to the below ones...

Bush


Clinton


Reagan

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KD: Have you seen any photographs suggesting that U.S. Grant spent 8 years performing duties of the United States President?

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[Archive]

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Username: Banta
Date: 2020-02-21 01:43:36
Reaction Score: 2

This is a good point. I was briefly distracted by Grant when looking for Lincoln pictures, and noted that most are really hard to place any distinct location, aside from some supposed Civil War glamour shots. I'm gonna keep my eyes open though...

Just wanted to note a few things about the images posted because they're bothering me. In your first General Grant vs President Grant picture comparison (calling them 1A and 1B), it seems a little curious that he's crossing his legs in the opposite direction. They both go the same way in 2A and 2B. Also, it seems like photo 1B and 2B were taken at different times? Vase is replaced in 1B with a hat. The chair in 2B is completely different than in the other three. His hair and facial hair seem slightly different lengths, but like with his clothes, I can't tell if its just that 1B is darker.

When compared all around, seems really hard to guess his age in these pictures. Of course, it's only a small period of time, really, (1861 to 1877 total), but his 1870 Brady photo looks, if anything closer, to his appearance in his "General" photos. It's all so close enough though that it would seem that the President Grant photos were taken early in his Presidency. Which is kinda odd.

 

[KD Archive]

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Username: KorbenDallas
Date: 2020-02-21 20:52:18
Reaction Score: 5

I just find it highly suspicious that we have no photographic evidence of the US Government being operational in any capacity.

 

[Timeshifter]

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Username: Timeshifter
Date: 2020-02-21 20:59:12
Reaction Score: 1

I think, in the top 2 sets of pics, it is a different person in each image, either that, or he had his ears changed between images.

Will help with search KD, could be long and fruitless however

 

[KD Archive]

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Username: KorbenDallas
Date: 2020-02-21 21:12:01
Reaction Score: 5

I think we could be dealing with a pretty big project assisted by wax figures used to fill in existing historical voids.

This lack of any reasonable and conclusive photographic evidence is one of the bigger smoking guns we have, IMHO.

 

[Archive]

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Username: Banta
Date: 2020-02-21 21:51:51
Reaction Score: 1

I think, in the top 2 sets of pics, it is a different person in each image, either that, or he had his ears changed between images.

I thought it might be like that picture of Lincoln where they photoshopped his head onto Calhoun's body, as something looks off, but couldn't decide if it was just his varying hair lengths and difference in the contrast of the photos throwing me off.

It is amazing. Multiple sources make the claim of Grant being one of the most photographed people in the 19th century, but none of him doing anything Presidential. After the Civil War, wouldn't you think there would be propaganda value in showing the President being a leader? There's seemingly no shortage of sketches showing him meeting with governmental officials and foreign dignitaries, but not a single photo I have come across yet. And the photos that do exist of him in general, outside of the Brady ones, have very wide range of dates attributed. The "President" Grant ones I've basically only seen attributed to sometime in his Presidency.

This picture is mostly cited as being from 1872, which seems about right if that's his son Jesse, who would have been 14. But I've seen it dated up to 1880 and frankly, that kid could be younger (or not even Jesse). Regardless, nothing Presidential about it.

 

[KD Archive]

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Username: KorbenDallas
Date: 2020-02-21 23:15:08
Reaction Score: 1

What could be included in the list of possible reasons for the absence of such photographic evidence? Please do not include conventional “photography was at its infancy” type of explanations.

 

[wild heretic]

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Username: wild heretic
Date: 2020-02-22 01:03:32
Reaction Score: 2

What could be included in the list of possible reasons for the absence of such photographic evidence? Please do not include conventional “photography was at its infancy” type of explanations.

Very good question and im drawing a blank. What about other presidents? Who is the earliest president photographed doing presidential stuff?

I noticed the painted backdrop to grants photos is some kind of stage background. Its a prop of some sort. Maybe part of a photographers studio or borrowed from a theatre.

It also looks like he is wearing a wig.

Grant has crossed the opposite leg in the later photo. Do people normally do this? I dont think so.

 

[Archive]

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Username: Red Bird
Date: 2020-02-22 02:43:04
Reaction Score: 1

While I haven’t found any of Grant actually in office, this was supposedly him reading his inaugural address - one I hadn’t seen.
I happened upon the following article about his wife, with with many fascinating tidbits, such as the usual characters appearing towards the middle to end of their lives (carnegie, Rockefeller, mark twain, etc). Not to mention it seemed to be the start of full On publicity/marketing. She had many firsts, such as being the first, First Lady.
oh yes, she was supposedly the first, First Lady filmed but, alas, it is lost.
Julia Grant Biography :: National First Ladies' Library

This is interesting, and I’d NEVER read it: 22 years old, married 22 August 1848, St. Louis, Missouri, to Hiram Ulysses Grant born 27 April 1822, Point Pleasant, Ohio, died 23 July 1885, Mount McGregor, Saratoga Springs, New York. Contrary to wide belief, Grant’s middle name was not “Simpson,” and he later confessed that his taking of the middle initial of “S.” was merely an affectation.

As miles Mathis would say...
Hiram (Phoenician "benevolent brother"), Hiram (Hebrew חִירָם "high-born"), Standard Hebrew Ḥiram, Tiberian Hebrew Ḥîrām) is a biblical given name referring to Phoenician kings.

 

[Archive]

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Username: Banta
Date: 2020-02-22 04:30:28
Reaction Score: 1

While I haven’t found any of Grant actually in office, this was supposedly him reading his inaugural address - one I hadn’t seen.

I had seen this one too, but I think it was the same photo KD posted in the OP.

Worth noting while we have that picture from supposedly 1869, we do not have any from Grant's second inauguration in 1873. We get lovely sketches like this:

Maybe it was too cold for the cameras!

Ulysses S. Grant’s second inauguration — still stands as the coldest March day on record for Washington, and it was a wintry disaster. Just how cold was it? Look at it this way: the recorded temperature at noon was 16°F. Wind gusts of 40mph created a wind chill of "-15° to -30°F." The inaugural parade sent many frost-bitten cadets to the hospital. And forget about having any music to see them off — the musicians' breath froze in their instruments and they were quite unable to play.

The inaugural ball was even worse. It took place in a temporary structure not designed to withstand the cold. Guests arrived and kept their overcoats firmly wrapped around them. They must have looked quite silly as they stiffly danced to whatever music the musicians could coax out of their frozen instruments.

While they were dancing, dead birds fell on their heads. (Yes, you heard that right!) Hundreds of canaries in cages had been hung from the ceiling above to add a cheery atmosphere with their song, but any of the little birds that hadn’t frozen to death were obviously too cold to sing. The dead ones slipped from their perches and fell on the unfortunate dancers below. Even the refreshments offered the guests no relief. The champagne was reportedly frozen solid and one guest "claimed the coffee turned to frappe."

President Grant's Wintry Inaugural Disaster

The drawings don't really capture the intense cold that well. Or the reduced crowd.

 

[KD Archive]

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Username: KorbenDallas
Date: 2020-02-22 05:20:06
Reaction Score: 2

Very good question and im drawing a blank. What about other presidents? Who is the earliest president photographed doing presidential stuff?

These are very good questions. The issue is a bit bigger than people think.

• 19th century photographs of the US Government in session prior to 1865. Where are they?
• Where were US flags prior to the Civil War?

Casual photographs we do have, bear no affiliation with any country, or government. Any affiliation is represented by drawings. The ones we do have appear to have been staged, and the date of such photographs is virtually indeterminable.

It's like we are missing a country. Of course we have documents of various types, but where are the photographs.

Is it reasonable to question this complete lack of photographic evidence? I think it is.

 

[Archive]

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Username: Banta
Date: 2020-02-22 09:05:25
Reaction Score: 3

The ones we do have appear to have been staged

And are still being staged as of 2019!

Join Ulysses S. Grant National Historic Site for a commemoration of the 150th anniversary of Ulysses S. Grant's first Presidential Inauguration. Activities will include reenactments of Grant's Oath of Office and Inauguration Speech, and a roundtable discussion with park rangers on the historic legacy of Grant's two terms in the White House.

Event Details (U.S. National Park Service)


Okay, so not super impressive. But they at least got his character right, because from what I can find, he's most known for in photos sitting next to a table (points off for no tablecloth though). However, check out one of Lincoln's inaugural reenactments:

Ceremonies and reenactment of the one hundredth anniversary of the second inauguration of Abraham Lincoln, 1865-1965. On the East Front of the Capitol ...

Too bad it took 100 years for people to figure out the propaganda value in photos! And to get it back to Grant, from that same document:



Now, I can't find any large scale Grant reenactments like this, but I wonder if a Grant actor wasn't floating around in the background anyway. Grant might have even been "supposed" to be there, I cannot verify if he returned to Washington for Lincoln's 2nd inauguration in the narrative timeline, but it seems plausible.

Sorry if this is a little off the exact track of the thread now, but I'm backing up the point about the inauguration photos possibly being from ANY time. It's easy enough to draw a crowd. It's a lot harder to fake sessions of Congress and keep everything and everyone looking historically accurate. It's like why there are no stars in moon photos. It's just too much detail and mistakes are bound to crop up.

 

[Truth Lover]

Just wanted to note a few things about the images posted because they're bothering me.... Also, it seems like photo 1B and 2B were taken at different times? Vase is replaced in 1B with a hat. The chair in 2B is completely different than in the other ...

Good observations. Also, the pillar looks like wallpaper.

Good observations. Also, the pillar looks like wallpaper.

Also, "Grant," with the weid eyes, is wearing the exact same pants in all four pictures. The same wear marks on the right thigh, the same funky added on 4 inches of material at the bottom. The exact same shoes and pants! They look like poverty pants.

Good observations. Also, the pillar looks like wallpaper.