Through England on a Side Saddle in the Time of William and Mary

[Jd755]

Assumptions have to be made regarding the journals of Celia Fiennes and the book of them claimed by the author Hon Mrs Griffiths as being a verbatim copy and the author of the website doing a verbatim copy of the book because I have never held the book or the journals let alone seen them. I have my experience of of some the places Celia Fiennes visited and my experience of reading physical printed books from the 1700's and 1800's as my guide.
I trust both Celia and Mrs Griffiths.

Celia Fiennes lived at roughly the same time as Daniel Defoe. She was born in 1662 at Newton Toney, Salisbury, the daughter of a colonel in Cromwell's army. She is remarkable for the journeys she made, and the account she wrote of them: she rode side-saddle through every county in England, accompanied only by two servants. Although she always lived in the south, in 1697 and 1698 she made two long journeys through northern England and Scotland. She travelled to improve her health, visiting many spa towns, but also for personal adventure. Her account of her travels seems to have been written after her travels had largely ended, in 1702. She described both the great houses she visited and the developing new industries. She died in 1741.

On we go then.

I went to Sarum 8 miles which is a Citty and Bishop's Seat, pretty Large town Streetes broad but through ye midst of them runs a little rivulet of water which makes ye Streetes not so clean or so easye to pass in, they have stepps to Cross it and many open places for horses and Carriages to Cross itt

Streetes has been slid in modern parlance to streets and ye to the and of course easye to easy not to mention stepps to steps. This sliding becomes ever more obvious as we go through the diary.

Sarum is not Salisbury as modern interpretations claim or Salsebury. Its a different place altogether as Celia notes.

itt takes off Much from the beauty of ye streetes - the Cause of it was from the burning of the old town called Salsebury which was on a hill about a mile off this and it was so drye and farre from springs that it was destroyed by fire and only the ruines of the Castle is to be seen like a high wall with fortifications:

Fire destroyed Salisbury which was on a hill with springs that dried out i would appear so it begs the question why people chose to live up there. It also begs the question what caused the fire and was the town all within the confines of the castle walls.

Ye Dean has a very good house and Gardens, so is the Bishop's Palace at ye end of a Row of trees - the roomes are lofty and Stately: all these houses are round ye Cathedrall which is esteemed the finest in England in all respects, it only lyes low in a watry meadow so yt the foundations is in the water, made of ffaggots and timber,

Here we read Celia clearly showing the location of what is today called Salisbury Cathedral being located in a water meadow and describes its foundations as being of faggots and timber. The assumption being that at the time of its construction the water meadow was indeed watery. It could of course have not been a water meadow at the time of construction and was in fact dry land but became a water meadow after it was built due to a change in the course of rivers and streams either by natural or man made means.
It does show that by 1797 the cathedral was extant and in use.

there are severall doores into ye Church, in the body of it stands the pulpet and seates on each side; there are two large Isle's runnes up on either side; the font stands below opposite to the quire yt enters wth 2 or 3 steps assent from a large Cross Isle that leades to the Cloysters, in which is ye Chapter house which is very large and supported only by one small stone Pillar in ye middle,

More word sliding.
severall to several, doores to doors, pulpet to pulpit, seates to seat, Isles to aisles, (there's an interesting one as I am told I live on the British Isles!) runnes to runs, quire to choir, leades to leads, Cloysters to cloisters.

The roofe of the Church is very lofty and exactly neate in all things though not so large as some other Cathedralls - the top of the Qoire is exactly painted and it lookes as fresh as if but new done though of 300 yeares standing

300 years standing so finished in 1397 or so. A long time indeed for a structure built in a water meadow on a foundation of faggots and timber to stay up. And the paint lasting 300 years and still looking fresh, note. Given the experience of modern paints and viewing painted walls in churches or most often fragments of painted walls in churches this 300 year claim does seem doubtful for the paint at least.
Of course no mention of how Celia came to know this but presumably it was from the Dean at the time of the visit or one of his underlings.

there is a very good organ and a deske for the reader raised so high even with the organ for ye advantage of the voice to be heard, yet ye Church is so lofty yt ye Eccos drowns ye Intelligableness of the voice.

Organs seem to have been around a long time.
Acoustically the building does not seem to have been built to lend itself to preaching or sermons let alone music. Unless its built precisely for voice and music just not in the locations within where there were to be found in Celia's time.

there is the Effigee in stone of a doctor that starved himself to death attempting to imitate our Saviour to fast 40 dayes - but at 31 dayes end he became sensible of his evil and would have retrieved his life by eateing againe, but then by ye Just judgment of god could not swallow any thing down his throate;

Seems nutters are not a modern phenomenon!

its a pretty little town a good Market for corn and there is the Mindiffe Coale which is allmost as good as the sea Coale from newcastle that is dugg out of the hills all about;

Coale to coal, naturally, but here we seen two coalfields as we would call them being dug in 1697. The Midiffe being slid to Midlands. As coal was being dug it was clearly being used. Seems an obvious thing to have to say but modern academia and history seems to be want to overlook this and instead links coal production to the industrial revolution as its called.

there is one dineing roome yt the Chimney is just under a window and the Tunnells runnes upon each side. There is one Chamber, the chimney stands Just by the window opposite to Salsebury, and on the black Marble Chimney piece soe finely polished you may see all the Cathedrall as in a Glass; I have seen it plaine.

One Chimney which is what has been slid through to today as fireplace. What we today call a chimney was in Celias day Tunnell. Interesting.
So much for etheric heating elements aka firedogs.

Ye river runns through ye garden that easeily conveys by pipes water to all Parts.

A Grottoe is att ye end of the garden just ye middle off ye house - its garnished with many fine ffigures of ye Goddesses, and about 2 yards off the doore is severall pipes in a line that with a sluce spoutts water up to wett the strangers - in the middle roome is a round table and a large Pipe in the midst, on which they put a Crown or Gun or a branch, and so yt spouts the water through ye Carvings and poynts all round ye roome at ye Artists pleasure to wet ye Company

Water engineering was obviously not in its infancy. Water is delivered from the river in pipework and once in the gardens delivered to the ornament by more pipework to entertain and amaze guests. 1697 don't forget.

Ye Grottoe is leaded on ye top where are fish ponds, and just without ye grottoe is a wooden bridge over ye river. Ye barristers are set out wth Lyons set thick on Either Side wth their mouths open, and by a sluce spout out water each to other in a perfect arch ye length of ye bridge.

More water engineering to entertain and more word sliding. Grottoe to grotto, barristers to balustrades (barristers in the legal world seen in a very different light now), lyons to lions. The people of the time were ingenious and inventive perhaps building on earlier generations efforts. Assuming the pipe to be lead I would argue it puts the mythical Romans and equally mythical Normans into the same frame basically the people before 1697 who invented and built water engineering whoever they were and whenever they lived.

t lyes 15 mile from Winchester - it is three mile from Amesbury and 2 mile more to Stoneage that stands on Salsebury plaine - eminent for many battles being faught there - this Stoneage is reckon'd one of the wonders of England how such prodigeous stone should be brought there, as no such Stone is seen in ye Country nearer than 20 mile. They are placed on the side of a hill in a rude jregullar form - two stones stands up and one laid on their tops with morteses into each other and thus are severall in a round like a wall with spaces between, but some are fallen down, so spoyle the order or breach in the temple, as some think it was in the heathen tymes; others thinke it the Trophy of some victory wone by one Ambrosious, and thence the town by it has its name of. Amsebury. There is severall rows of lesser stones within the others set up in the same forme of 2 upright and one lies on the top like a gateway. How they were brought thither or whether they are a made stone is not resolved - they are very hard yet I have seen some of them scraped - the weather seemes not to penetrate them. To increase the wonder of the story is that none Can Count them twice alike - they stand confused and some single stones at a distance but I have told them often, and bring their number to 91.

Stoneage eh!
Odd is it not that this name has been so butchered and slid to invent Stonehenge and the Stone Age. It like academia and antiquarians pick and mix terms on a whim. Obviously it cannot have been built in the time of mobile cranes powered by diesel or steam as is often put forwards on this forum/ Speculation I too have undertaken on here ad its predecessor forum.

From Stonidge I went to Evell in Somersetshire, thence to Meer a little town about 15 mile; by the town is a vast high hill called the Castle of Meer - its now all grass over and so steepe up that the ascent is by footsteps cut in the side of the hill. I was on the top where some had been digging and was come to a space that was Arched and the walls plaistred and washed white and smooth - it was but a little roome, I tooke a piece of its walls and plaister. That shews there may be Cells or vaults in the hill

Seems to me Celia is writing of internal walls being plastered. This is prime evidence of wall plastering being the norm in buildings of Celia's time and prior so to think buildings put up subsequent to her time not being so plastered is erroneous. On a practical level it is far easier to create a smooth flat wall from plaster than it is stone and brick. Flat walls allow for much more usage purposes than uneven walls and crucially they do not harbour, dust, vermin or dirt.

The reason we see so many walls of bare stone or brick is simply that its too expensive to restore plaster in old buildings still roofed, even many churches, and in roofless buildings utterly pointless as weather and vandal alike will sooner or later remove it.

More to follow.

Another Journey to the Bath, from Newtontony to Warminster 18 miles a good road town and good way;Jo

Journey to the Bath. Not ye Bath or just Bath as it is known today.

we passed over one Common of some miles Length on a narrow Causy that a Coach can scarce pass, all pitched with slatts and stones-our Coach was once wedged in ye wheele in the stones that severall men were forced to lift us out; its made only for Packhorses which is the way of Carriage in those parts.

Celia makes many mentions of "pitched" in her descriptions of towns and roads. It seems that even in 1697-8 it was known that therehad to be a hard surface on such things to make them useable. I wonder why so few if any of the streets and roads in America are mentioned as being pitched. Unless of course the people of America did not know of such a practice or felt the need of it.

Ye town and all its accomodations is adapted to ye batheing and drinking of the waters and to nothing else, the streetes are well pitched and Cleane kept and there are Chaires as in London to Carry ye better sort of people in visits, or if sick or infirme and is only in the town, for its so Encompassed with high hills few care to take the aire on them.

Another pointer to my mind that shows history before Celia's time was both little known and invented. The Baths at Bath are claimed to have been of Roman construction but reality is no bugger knows. All that can be said of them is in 1697 they were in use as places of cleansing and healing and the infrastructure of them was all in place. Celia herself makes no note of any historical claims for them which she does for many other places, buildings and infrastructure so possibly these baths do not predate her time by all that much. A generation or two perhaps.

by ffarington is a fine house of Sr George Pratt's Called Coalsell. All ye avenues to ye house are fine walkes of rows of trees, ye garden lyes in a great descent below ye house of many steps and terresses and walkes one below another, a green walke with all sorts of Dwarfe trees, fruit trees with standing apricot and flower trees, abundance of garden roome and filled with all sorts of things improved for pleasure and use.

Now then. Apricots are too tender to grow to fruit. most years. over my lifetime. They need heat and long days to ripen properly yet here is Celia in 1697 writing of apricots being grown outside which alludes to a warmer climate than it is today.

The Entrance of ye house is an ascent of severall steps into a hall so lofty the rooff is three storyes, reaches to ye floore of ye gallery

Steps are a prominent feature of her descriptions of houses. The specific number seems to be a measure of wealth an or status of the principal resident of the house. Lofty halls are a measure in the same vein. That nails the giant nonsense for me if not for you.

Over this runs a gallery all through the house, and on each side severall garret roomes for servants ffurnished very neate and Genteele, in ye middle are staires yt Lead up to the Cupilow or large Lanthorn in the middle of the leads. Ye house being Leaded all over and the stone Chimney's in severall rows Comes up in them on each side ye Cupilow, it shewes exact and very uniform, as is ye whole Building. This gives you a great prospect of gardens, grounds and woods that appertaine to ye Seate, as well as a sight of the Country at a distance.

Another fancy bites the dust.
The domes an cupolas were built to allow the owner to show off how skilled he was at choosing a place to build his house which afforded greater view than another. The better the placement the greater the status coming from the amount of land seen which is in the ownership of the owner.

There was few pictures in the house only over doores and Chimney's; the hall was paved with black and whyte marble and had seates round the roome cut in arches on the walls.

This description of black and white marble flooring appears time and again. These days and especially in these forums much is written about black and white floors being masonic symbology but in 1697 they are the fashion status symbol of the day. All the new houses she encounters seem to have had black and white marble floors installed in their halls. The older, lower, buildings seem to have them too but in nowhere near the number of the stone built houses.
The Masonic Order sold to us today doesn't get a mention.

Broughton is an ancient Seate of ye Lord viscount Say and Seale; its an old house moted round, and a parke and Gardens, but are much left to decay and ruine when my brother Came to it.

Say and Seale is a name and or title I have never come across before. It appears at first blush to allue to speaking coming first thn writing doing the sealing. But what do I know?

From Broughton I went to see Edgehill where was the ffamous Battle ffought in Cromwell's tyme-its 10 mile off, the Ridge of hills runns a great length and so high that the land beneath it appeares vastly distant, its a rich ground full of inclosures and lookes finely, tho' fformidable to look down on it and turnes one's head round-the wind allwayes blows wth great violence there because of the Steepeness of ye hills. The top is a flatt full of Barrows and hills that are markes of a Camp and battles.

Edgehill it does seem was the site of a battle between Parliament and Kings forces. The mention of the violence of the wind is interesting as it would appear to me both forces would have been aware of the wind and mustered accordingly to use it to their advantage and their opponents disadvantage but I don't know enough to see if the accounts of the battle mention it at all.
Also the mention of barrows and hills smacks of a landscape shaped by man.

About 2 mile from Broughton is a great old house much like Broughton; its Sr Robert Dashwoods-most of the great houses there about are old built.

Which suggest Dashwoods are an old family.

One thing I have noticed which is quite remarkable in the context of the way they are used today, Celia doesn't mark by date. We are brought up in a society where the date is all important. This must have come into being between the late 1690's and whatever year you dear reader happened to be born.

 

[Jd755]

so to Hartffordbridge is 8 mile more thats only a place full of jnns for the conveniency of the road.

jnns slide to inns. Its easy to see how the j and i debate was fostered by reading through this book. Either deliberately, accidentally or a combination of both mis interpretations, for want if a word, are common. It was but a small matter to pop the j for i into year dates and boom another endless rabbit hole is created.

Thence I went to Buckinghamtown 7 mile, a very neate place and we passed the river Ouise over a very high bridge tho' the river seemed not then so very full, but it swells after great raines which makes them build their arches so large.

Ouise becomes Ouse in yet another slide. The bridge she describes is clearly not new and the people who designed and built it were well aware of the differing states of the river. No clue as to when but clearly before 1697.

There is a little river and large ponds-it gives you a good sight of the Country about, wch is pretty much inclosed and woods a rich deep Country and so the roads bad.

Enclosure Acts began being passed by Parliament in the mid 1600's and here is evidence of that process in play. The people petitioning Parliament were the people of the aristocracy. This idea that Parliament represents the will of the people has been a lie since its invention. The Enclosures removed common land and forced people who had free use of common land off of it one way or the other. Obviously as Celia observes an unexpected consequence was the terrible roads and the distances between places were artificially lengthened by walls and fences which affected aristocracy and everyone else in a negative way.

I saw some of this land improved in the produce of woods wch ye dyers use-its ordered in this manner, all the Summer season if drie for 4 or 5 months they sow it or plant it, but I thinke its sown-then its very Clean wedd when grown up a little out of ye ground, for it rises no higher then Lettice and Much in such tuffts; ye Coullour off ye Leafe is much like Scabins and the shape Resembling that:

More sliding and an interesting description of the method of growing weld which has a long history of being grown to produce a dye for cloth.

this they Cutt of Close to ye ground and soe out of ye same roofe Springs the Leafe againe, this they do 4 tymes, then in a Mill wth a horse they Grind the Leaves into a paste, so make it up in balls and drye them in a Penthouse to secure it from raine-only the wind dryes it.

Penthouse takes on a whole new meaning. Its just a pent roof structure without walls.

Here I saw flax In the growth. The smell of the Woode is so strong and offencive you can scarce beare it at ye Mill: I could not fforse my horse neare it.

So flax was grown for cloth alongside weld for dying the cloth made from the flax aka linen. A superb example of efficient and effective production that is anathema in modern times. We are so stupid as we allow the insanity to continue when the solution is right there in plain sight.

from thence I returned Backe by a place where is a stone stands to Divide ffour shires-Worcester, Oxford Glocester and Warwickshire-so I ascended there a high hill and travaill'd all on ye top of ye hills a pleasant and a good Roade.

I wonder who came to decide where this boundary stone should be positioned. Did they survey it, use a map, have a punch up or a piss up or did they just hazard a guess and nobody bothered arguing otherwise?

The Theater is a Noble Pile of building, its Paved with Black and White Marble, exceeding Large and Lofty, built Round and Supported by its own architecture all stone, noe pillars to support it; itt has windows all round and full of Gallery's ffor the Spectators as well as Disputants when ye acts are at Oxford.

A theatre in the round though Celia doesn't use the term. Black and white marble mentioned again. Its walls being load bearing, from her description, which is evidence of architectural and building know how being used by its architect/builder.
And Acts is the term she uses not actors or actresses or plays.
Acts on stage Acts of Parliament. Are they the same thing. make believe/
I would argue yes, most definitely.

Over the Rooff of this Large Roome are as Large roomes with Severall Divissions which are Used for the Drying the Printed Sheetes of bookes,

As good as it gets evidence that printing was in Oxford in 1697. There has to have been at least one printing press in use so that should help fix the time scale that was discussed on here in regards the origin of printing.
And indeed there was!

Under the theater is a roome wch is ffitted for printing, where I printed My name Severall tymes. The outside of ye theater there is a pavement and spikes of Iron in a Raile round with pillars of stone to secure it from the street.

The security from the street, is it suggestive of the value attached to the printing press and the work it produced or the Acts performed within?
Maybe both.
Hansard is the printed record of the Parliament. No idea if it was printed at Oxford but I would not be surprised as even today Oxford, the University part, is claimed by many to be where spies are chosen and trained up.

Just by it is a little building wch is full of Antiquityes wch have many Curiositys in it of Mettles, Stones, Ambers, Gumms.

This little building, its contets and its location right by the theatre containing a printing press make for very interesting reading.

There is the picture of a Gentleman yt was a Great benefactor to it being a travailer; the fframe of his picture is all wood carved very finely with all sorts of figures, Leaves, birds, beast and flowers. He gave them 2 ffine gold Meddals or Silve gilt wth two ffine great Chaines of the same, one was all curious hollow worke wch were given him by some prince beyond the Sea.

I suggest Celia is describing what we today call a museum. Wonder when that word was actually invented. She doesn't name the travelling gentleman so perhaps he was not of the aristocracy. Similarly she doesn't name the Prince across the sea, which to my mind refers to a Prince not of Europe.

There is a Cane which looks like a Solid heavy thing but if you take it in yor hands its as light as a feather, there is a Dwarfe shoe and boote, there are several Loadstones, and it is pretty to See how ye steele Clings or follows it, hold it on the top att some distance the needles stand quite upright, hold it on either side it moves towards it as it rises and falls.

A Dwarfe shoe and boote. Interesting how shoe is the only one of those three words to retain their 'e' today. Dwarfs were obviously known in Celias time. If giants were around it doesn't seem that this travelling gentleman encountered any as I feel sure Celia would have used anything giant she saw to counterbalance the Dwarfe. It would also be of great interest to see how she spelt giant.

There are several good Colledges I saw most of ym . Waddom hall is but little; in Trinity Colledge is a fine neate Chapple, new made, finely painted. Christ Church is ye largest Colledge.

I get confused here. She mentions colledges and chapple as though they are one and the same building.

The Courts large, ye buildings large and lofty; in one of the Courts is a tower new built for to hang the Mighty Tom, that bell is of a Large size, so great a Weight they were forced to have engines from London to raise it up to the tower.

And now Courts. If this and the preceding sentence dont show legal, education and religion are in essence the same thing I don't know what does.
Engines brought from London to raise a bell. I can only guess as to what the engines in question were, cranes of some kind or winding drums or windlasses seem most likely but tis but a guess. Thing is the road from Oxford to London must have broad and well pitched enough to allow the wagons carrying the engines to make passage in both directions. Perhaps the engines were disassembled for travel much the same as large cranes of today travel in bits on truck trailers.
I would also guess that the tower itself was the support aka the literal tower of tower crane and the engines provided the lifting power whilst the tower bore the weight of the bell.

The Physick garden afforded great diversion and pleasure, the variety of flowers and plants would have entertained one a week. The few remarkable things I tooke notice off was ye Aloes plant wch is like a great flag in shape, leaves and Coullour, and grows in the fform of an open Hartichoake and towards the bottom of each Leafe its very broad and thicke, In wch there are hollows or receptacles for ye Aloes.

Hartichoke has slid to artichoke. A plant name that never made sense. Hartichoke seems to make a bit more as its the heart of the flower bud that is eaten but the choke bit still comes across as odd.
I have an aloe vera on a window sill and it does indeed appear similar to a "great flag" aka flag iris of modern vernacular, but the Aloes hollow she refers to are barely hollows and the Aloes themselves can only mean seed pods. I have seen an aloe vera in flower and many moons ago had two other much smaller aloes in flower but none of them fruited and set seed.

There is also ye sensible plant, take but a Leafe between finger and thumb and squeeze it and it immediately Curles up together as if pained and after some tyme opens abroad again, it looks in Coullour like a filbert Leafe but much narrower and long. There is also the humble plant that grows on a long slender Stalke and do but strike it, it falls flatt on ye ground stalke and all, and after some tyme revives againe and Stands up, but these are nice plants and are kept mostly under Glass's, ye aire being too rough for them.

The sensible plant has become the sensitive plant. No idea what the other plant she describes is called. Under glass refers to a greenhouse so it would seem the greenhouse was built prior to the introduction of the Glass Tax in 1696 unless greenhouses were exempted from the tax.

there are also Severall books all of writing on vellum Leaves, and one book written in ye Chinease Caractor on the jndian barks off trees;

She is writing of books found in St Johns Colledge library here. The use of vellum is unusual which is why she mentions it in the same breath so too speak, as is the Chinease written on jndian barks of trees.
This suggests paper had superseded or replaced all other writing mediums long before 1697, to my mind.

a Book of the Genealogies of the Kings since the Conquest to King Charles the Second, with the Severall Coates all Gilded very fresh till the two or three Last wch is pretended to be difficient from the art being Lost of Laying Gold so ffine on anything to polish it, but thats a great Mistake for that art is still in use in England, but the Excuse served the Negligence or ignorance of the workman;

I think she is referring to the art of gold leafing here. Quite how gold leaf came to be discovered or created I know not and it does seem remarkable that a Genealogy of Kings since the Conquest should be so disregarded as to suffer the lazy attitude or ignorance of a workman.

I feel that Oxford is used to house the inventors of history quite frankly.

Before I proceed will Insert ye names of ye ffounders of ye halls and Colledges in Oxford. University Colledge was founded by King Alfred. Baliol Coll. was founded by John and David Baliol, Merton Coll. by Walter de Mert, Exetter Coll. by Walter Stapleton, Oriel Colledge by King Edward the second, Queen Coll. by Robert Egglesfield, New Colledge by Wm of Wickham, Lincoln Colledge by Richard Fleming, All souls Coll. by Henry Chicklay Magdalin Coll. by Wm Wainfleet, Brason-nose Coll. by Wm Smith, and Richd Sutton, Corpus-Christy Coll. by Richd fox, Christ-Church Coll. by Henry ye eight, Trinity Colledge by Tho. Pope, St Johns Coll. Thomas white, Jesus Colledge by Queen Elizabeth, Wadham Coll. by Nicholas and Dorothy Wadham, Pembrooke Coll. by Thomas Feisdale and Richd Whitewick, Hart Hall by Walter Stapleton, St Mary Hall by King Edward the 2d , Newin Hall by Wm of Wickham, Magdalen Hall by Wm of Wainfleet, Gloster Hall by thomas White, Albon Hall by ye abbess of Alban, St Edmond Hall by ye arch Bishop of Canterbury.

I feel it is from within these people and their families there is an insight to be gained from seeing them as the guides if not rulers of England as it was formed.

From thence I went to Chichester through . a very ffine Parke of the Lord Tankervailes, stately woods and shady tall trees at Least 2 mile, in ye Middle stands his house wch is new built, square, 9 windows in ye ffront and seven in the sides. Brickwork wth free stone coynes and windows, itts in the Midst of fine gardens, Gravell and Grass walks and bowling green, wth breast walls Divideing each from other, and so discovers the whole to view. Att ye Entrance a Large Coart wth Iron gates open wch Leads to a less, ascending some stepps, ffree stone in a round, thence up More Stepps to a terrass, so to the house; it looks very neate and all orchards and yards convenient.

As good as it gets evidence of the materials used for building and the uses they were put to in 1697.

the sea comes within a mile of ye Citty, Remarkable for Lobsters and Crabs Chichester is. There is an Engine or Mill about a Mile off the town draws up salt water at one side from the sea and fresh water from a Little rivulet wch descends from a hill, and so supply's ye town.

This suggests Chichester was supplied with both salt and freshwater. To what purpose the salt was put to and how both waters were delivered and or distributed in the town is a mystery.

 

[Deleted member 1432]

Fascinating stuff.

"A Grottoe is att ye end of the garden just ye middle off ye house - its garnished with many fine ffigures of ye Goddesses..." Goddesses in a cathedral grotto, ye mind boggles.

Stoneage: It's difficult to imagine how that could slide to Stonehenge. It seems more like a modern reclassification whereby it was redefined as a 'henge' of stone. 'Henge' is claimed to relate to 'hang' as in a gallows, but it's all guesswork and misdirection imo. I find it quite amusing that Stonehenge could have been the inspiration for the entire Stone Age concept. It's also interesting that Celia didn't use the alleged old name of 'Giant's Dance'.

I find it interesting that land enclosure was enacted just after Cromwell's well financed victory.

This all appears to be very much an aristocrat's point of view, which is only to be expected as the common folk would never have the means or the time to undertake such a venture. I wonder if Celia will be making any social comments during her wanderings?

 

[Jd755]

Celia is indeed of the aristocracy.
Stoneage is what she called the stones. Henge has a feel of "let's make shit up" about it.

Apologies its a grottoe at the Earl of Pembroke's house not the cathedral.

Celia in her own words followed by some quotes pertaining to the social from the same portion of the book as the above two posts.

TO THE READER.

AS this was never designed: soe not likely to fall into the hands of any but my near relations, there needs not much to be said to Excuse or recommend it. Som.thing may be diverting and proffitable tho' not to Gentlemen that have travelled more about England, staid longer in places, might have more acquaintance and more opportunity to be inform'd. My Journeys as they were begun to regain my health by variety and change of aire and exercise, soe whatever promoted that was pursued; and those informations of things as could be obtein'd from jnns en passant, or from some acquaintance, inhabitants of such places could ffurnish me with for my diversion, I thought necessary to remark: that as my bodily health was promoted my mind should not appear totally unoccupied, and the collecting it together remain for my after conversation (with such as might be inquisitive after such and such places) to wch might have recourse; and as most I converse with knows both the ffreedom and Easyness I speak and write as well as my deffect in all, so they will not expect exactness or politeness in this book, tho' such Embellishments might have adorned the descriptions and suited the nicer taste.

Now thus much without vanity may be asserted of the subject, that if all persons, both Ladies, much more Gentlemen, would spend some of their tyme in Journeys to visit their native Land, and be curious to Inform themselves and make observations of the pleasant prospects, good buildings, different produces and manufactures of each place, with the variety of sports and recreations they are adapt to, would be a souveraign remedy to cure or preserve ffrom these Epidemick diseases of vapours, should I add Laziness? – it would also fform such an Idea of England, add much to its Glory and Esteem in our minds and cure the evil Itch of overvalueing fforeign parts; at least ffurnish them with an Equivalent to entertain strangers when amongst us, Or jnform them when abroad of their native Country, which has been often a Reproach to the English, ignorance and being strangers to themselves. Nay the Ladies might have matter not unworthy their observation, soe subject for conversation, within their own compass in each county to which they relate, and thence studdy now to be serviceable to their neighbours especially the poor among whome they dwell, which would spare them the uneasye thoughts how to pass away tedious dayes, and tyme would not be a burthen when not at a card or dice table, and the ffashions and manners of fforeign parts less minded or desired. But much more requisite is it for Gentlemen in gl service of their country at home or abroad, in town or country, Especially those that serve in parliament to know and jnform themselves ye nature of Land, ye Genius of the Inhabitants, so as to promote and improve Manufacture and trade suitable to each and encourage all projects tending thereto, putting in practice all Laws made for each particular good, maintaining their priviledges, procuring more as requisite; but to their shame it must be own'd many if not most are Ignorant of anything but the name of the place for which they serve in parliament; how then can they speake for or promote their good or Redress their Grievances? But now I may be justly blamed to pretend to give acc: of our Constitution, Customs, Laws, Lect, matters farre above my Reach or capacity, but herein I have described what have come within my knowledge either by view and reading, or relation from others which according to my conception have faithfully Rehearsed, but where I have mistaken in any form or subject matter I easily submitt to a correction and will enter such Erratas in a supplement annext to ye Book of some particulars since remark'd; and shall conclude with a hearty wish and recommendation to all, but Especially my own Sex, the studdy of those things which tends to Improve the mind and makes our Lives pleasant and comfortable as well as proffitable in all the Stages and Stations of our Lives, and render suffering and age supportable and Death less fformidable and a future State more happy.

CELIA FIENNES

Ye Grottoe is leaded on ye top where are fish ponds, and just without ye grottoe is a wooden bridge over ye river

From thence we went by boate to a little Isle Called brownsea 3 or 4 leagues off where there is much Copperice made, the stones being found about ye Isle in ye shore in great quantetyes. there is only one house there wch is the Governours, besides little fishermen's houses; they being all taken up about ye Copperice workes

We went 3 miles off to Sonidge a sea faire place not very big – there is a flatt sand by ye sea a little way: they take up stones by ye shores yt are so oyly, as ye poor burn it for ffire, and its so light a ffire it Serves for Candle too, but it has a strong offensive smell.

thence to Woolfe 4 miles to a relation – Mr Newbery a man of many whymseys – would keep no women servants – had all washing, Ironing dairy and all performed by men

In most parts of somersetshire it is very fruitfull for Orchards, plenty of apples and peares, but they are not Curious in the Planting the best sort of fruite which is a great pitty, being so soone produced and such quantetyes, they are likewise as Careless when they make Cider – they press all sorts of Apples together, else they might have as good Cider as in any other parts, even as good as the Herriford-shire

Just by Lime you Cross a little brooke into Devon-shire which is much like Somersetshire – fruitfull Country's for Corn, graseing, much for inclosures that makes the wayes very narrow, so as in some places a Coach and Waggons Cannot pass – they are forced to Carry their Corn and Carriages on horses' backes with frames of wood like pannyers on either side ye horse, so load it high and tye it wth Cords – this they do altogether the farther Westward they goe for ye wayes grow narrower and narrower on to ye lands end.

Thence to Alford 2 miles where was a minerall water which Company resorts to for drinking – formerly it has been more frequented than of late – many now send for them severall miles and have Beer brewed of them – there being no good accomodation for people of fashion, the Country people being a Clownish rude people

You Generally sit up to the Neck in water, this Cross bath is much the Coolest and is used mostly in ye heate of summer; there are Gallery's round ye top that ye Company that does not Bathe that day walkes in and lookes over into ye bath on their acquaintance and company – there are such a number of Guides to each bath of women to waite on ye ladyes, and of men to waite on the Gentlemen, and they keepe their due distance.

The Ladyes goes into the bath with Garments made of a fine yellow canvas, which is stiff and made large with great sleeves like a parsons gown; the water fills it up so that its borne off that your shape is not seen, it does not cling close as other linning, which Lookes sadly in the poorer sort that go in their own linning. The Gentlemen have drawers and wastcoates of the same sort of canvas, this is the best linning, for the bath water will Change any other yellow.

Ye town and all its accomodations is adapted to ye batheing and drinking of the waters and to nothing else, the streetes are well pitched and Cleane kept and there are Chaires as in London to Carry ye better sort of people in visits, or if sick or infirme and is only in the town, for its so Encompassed with high hills few care to take the aire on them.

Ye town and all its accomodations is adapted to ye batheing and drinking of the waters and to nothing else, the streetes are well pitched and Cleane kept and there are Chaires as in London to Carry ye better sort of people in visits, or if sick or infirme and is only in the town, for its so Encompassed with high hills few care to take the aire on them. There is also pleasant walkes in ye Cathedrall in the Cloysters and yt leades to ye discription of the Coronation in this place at ye bath ye 23d April wch I recieved ye relation off from a spectatrix it being ye day queen ann was Crowned, and is never performed unless when a queen is the Chiefe as Queen Elizabeth &c., her Sister our late Majesty's King William and Queen Mary because the queen was Joyn'd in the throne as principle, they representing ye Amazons consisting of the young Maids. The Companyes of the town being assembled at Mr Mayors house begin to proceed with their officers masters and wardens and each Company with their flag – After marched in a troupe ye Maides of the suburbs each with their proper officers of themselves, as Captn Ensigne and lieutenant wth plummes of feathers. Just before ye captn went her guard which was 6 young men drest in their holland shirts, with garters, and Ribons in their hatts, and their swords drawn in their hands, then the captn in her short wastecoate with gold lace, and their peticoates silke yt were with furbellows one above another with Ribons, wth a trunchant in their hand wth an inscription, God save queen Ann. Just behinde their Captaines went two Maides with two scepters gilt, next them two more yt bore the crown between them wch was gilt, also their Ensigne. Their flag wch holds the same inscription God save queen Ann was guarded by two young Men drest as ye others in their holland shirts: then the troupe followed in order in same dress as their officers with Crowns on their heads of Guilded Lauwrell, in Number about 100; next came ye Citty Maides wth their Majoress Generall with their plummes of feather with a wreath of Gilded Lawrell like a Crown, and on ye top wth all sorts of pretious stones ye Jewellers shops Could supply them wth and were guarded wth young men as ye others; behind ye Majoress followed six all in white with a green Cross swathe with this inscription in white God save queen Ann each with their Trunchant in their hands as ye former, and two carrying 2 scepters gilt, and after them two more ye Crown between them, wch was very rich in pearles; then two more carryed ye queens Armes between them, their dress was just as ye first were only much richer and finer and all of them gather'd up ye upper peticoate in little scallops just to shew their under peticoates wch were white. Ye troupe of ye amazans in order wth their bows and arrows wth Crowns of Gilded Lawrel, their officers had plumes of feathers and their Serjeants with their halberts, their number was also about 100.

Next after followed all ye young men of ye town form'd into a Company of Granadeers wth their proper officers wch had laced hatts and plumes of feathers; each soldier had a red cap wth Cyphers and a Crown gilt wth gold and furbelowed with blew round their head; their hair was tyed back with scarlet ribon, they had scarlet garters and scarlet slings for their gunns; drest all in their holland shirts and white stockings and had a hanger by their sides. Their number was about 30. Next followed four couple of Maurice dancers with their pranceing horses, in holland shirts with laced hatt riboned, and Cross swashes and garters wth bells, wth their two antiques drest in their formalityes, wth hankershiefs in their hands danceing all ye way.

Next walked ye Clergy, then next followed Mr Major with two pages attending him, followed by the Corporation aldermen all in their scarlet gowns, and the comon Councill in their gowns. Next followed in ye reare all ye marryed men formed into a Company of Artilery, their hatts Laced, with plumes of feathers all in their own Cloths:

Ye Soldiers ye Same wth Swords and gunns wth two Blunderbusses; every Company both of men and women was attended by drums and all sort of musick both wind and stringed instruments.

Thus they repaired to ye Cathedrall, Ye granadeers salutes them Just as they enter the Abby with a volly of shott, and there they have a sermon and as they come out of the Cathedrall ye Company of artillery salutes them againe with another volly, so in the same order they return to their Guild Hall where is a sumptuous feast wth Musick and danceing wch Ends ye solemnity wth bonfires as is usual.

Thence to Banbury in Oxfordshire 13 miles, thence to morton Hindmost in Glocestershire 14 miles, thence to Hales 8 miles over steep stony hills, a house of Lord Tracy's where my brother Say lived – a good old house, and there is a pretty Chappel with a Gallery ffor people of quality to sitt in wch goes out of the hall that is a lofty large roome: good parlour and severall good lodging roomes

I came to Rowle Stone where are many such greate stones as is at Stonidge, one stands uppright, a broad Stone Called the King's Stone, being the place a Saxon King was secured against his enemies; thence to Broughton in all 26 miles. Thence I went to Astrop where is a Steele water Much ffrequented by ye Gentry,

New Colledge which belongs to the ffiennes's, William of Wickam the founder, so I look'd on myself as some way a little Interested in that, here I was very handsomly Entertained by Mr Cross wch was one of my nephew Say and Seale's Tutors when at Oxfford. These ffellowshipp in New Colledge are about 100 say and a very pretty appartinent of Dineing Roome, bed Chamber, a studdy and a room for a Servant, tho' ye Serviteurs of the Colledge gives attendance; and here they may Live very Neatly and well if Sober and have all their Curiosityes they take much delight in, greens of all sorts, Myrtle, oringe and Lemons and Lorrestine growing in potts of Earth and so moved about from place to place and into the aire sometymes

Another journey into Herrifordshire from London, by Uxbridge to Islip 5 miles that is 7 mile off Oxford, from Islip to Woodstock where remaines no foote steps of faire Rosomonds Bower, only ye walls round ye parke and the little brookes that supply'd it wth water for ye baths and wells and ponds.

Never heard of Rosomonds Bower before but it sounds similar to Bath but without the hot water.

Here we Enter into Worcestershire and ascend Manborn hills or as some term them ye English Alps, a Ridge of hills Divideing Worcestershire and Heriforshire and was formerly Esteemed the divideing England and Wales, Herriford Shropshire &. were Weltch Countys.

Manborn a very different name to the modern name of Malverns. Does Manborn reefer to artificial hills constructed or more likely shaped by man?
Intriguing as ever these windrows into a past.
Hereford and Shropshire were once Welsh or Weltch. Something else I was unaware of.

They are at least 2 or 3 miles up and are in a Pirramidy fashion on ye top. I rode up upon ye top of one of ye highest from whence Could discern the Country above 40 miles round and noe hills but what appeared Like Burrows or Mole hills, these being so high Nothing Could Limitt ye Eye but distance.

Nothing could limit the eye but distance, hmm if a lady knew that in1697 why were there globes in Oxfords libraries?

Herriforshire wch appears Like a Country off Gardens and Orchards the whole Country being very full of fruite trees &. it lookes like nothing else-the apple and pear trees &. are so thick even in their Corn fields and hedgerows

This description of abundant fruit or fruite trees appears time and again as does her descriptions of fish especially salmon and crayfish. Whatever else was going on back then the abundance of food comes through loud and clear as does the water quality. It has to be good and well managed unlike today.
She ate the food of wherever she stopped. She doesn't seem to have carried any with her.

The Cathedrall is very neate but small, the Carving of the wood in the Quire was good. In the Library I was shown by ye Dean of Herriford ye History of pope Joan with her Picture it was printed in and with the history of all the popes in Rome successively-it was writt in old English, but I made a shift to read it.

She is describing Herriford or Hereford as it is today, cathedral. Writ in old English note question is when did new English start replacing the old and why?
What drove the change?

Winchester is a large town was once ye metropolis, there is a wall Encompassing it with severall Gates; the streetes are pretty good, Large and long, ye buildings but Low and old, only some few in the Close wch are new built of the Doctors houses by ye Colledge and the Church

Metropolis referring to what is today called the capital?

about a mile or two beyond Winchester, we go by St Cross, a Large hospitall for old men and I thinke most is for ye decayed schollars.

Decayed schollars I rather like that term.

The Masters place is worth 1000 pound a yeare-it used to be annexed to ye Warden of the Colledges place, by their ffoundation they are to give reliefe to any Travellers that call there so farre as a Loafe of bread as big as our two penny bread is and a Draught of beare and a piece of mony. I thinke its ye value of a Groate.

Who oversees The Master, was my thought.

I came to Redbridge, thence to Buckland in the new forest in all 20 mile; ffrom Buckland wch was a Relation's house- Sr Robt Smiths-its a mile to Limington a seaport town- it has some few small shipps belongs to it and some Little trade, but ye Greatest trade is by their Salterns. Ye Sea water they draw into Trenches and so into Severall ponds yt are secured in ye bottom to retain it, and it stands for ye Sun to Exhale ye Watry fresh part of it, and if it prove a drye sumer they make the best and most Salt, for ye raine spoyles ye ponds by weakning ye Salt. When they think its fit to boyle they draw off the water from ye ponds by pipes wch Conveys it into a house full of Large Square Iron and Copper panns; they are shallow but they are a yard or two if not more Square, these are fixed in Rowes one by another it may be twenty on a Side, in a house under which is the ffurnace yt burns fiercely to keepe these panns boyling apace, and as it Candy's about ye Edges or bottom so they Shovell it up and fill it in great Baskets and so the thinner part runns through on Moulds they set to Catch it, wch they Call Salt Cakes. Ye rest in ye Baskets drye and is very good Salt and as fast as they Shovell out the boyling Salt out of ye panns they do replenish it wth more of their Salt water in their pipes. They told me when the Season was drye and so the Salt water in its prime they Could make 60 quarters of Salt in one of those panns wch they Constantly attend Night and day all the while the fire is in the ffurnace, because it would burn to waste and Spoyle

An accurate and detailed description of the industrial production of salt.

It was at South-hampton King Philip Landed when he Came to marry Queen Mary. Ffrom thence its 6 miles to Rumsey, and the Road Runns just by a ffine house of one of my Relations Sr John St Barbe's;

There is handsome roomes only those at ye Side and End are Garret fashion-between are Servants roomes and Closets: thence a little pair of Stairs Leads up to the Gallery and thence up to the Cupilow which is in the Middle of the house, all Windows round and on ye top has a Gold ball that holds severall Gallons. On each Wing there are 2 little towers, one has ye Clock the other a Sundial, and on the top two gold balls of a Lesser size.

So a clock on one tower and a sundial on the other. Not to mention a golden ball on each and a cupola topped with a gold ball of several gallons volume. (Gallons of what? Or is she just describing the size using volume as the guide?)
A device so beloved of etheric energy folk who see such things as evidence of etheric electricity gathering yet here they are simple ornament.

 

[Starfire]

Thank you for sharing from Celia's book. She was very observant and descriptive. She probably drove people crazy at the time asking so many questions. I would have liked to have known her. What a bold woman to be travelling so far at that time, in a carriage with some servants. Her father was military, so he most likely provided bodyguards.

The technology she describes is definitely more advanced than I thought would have been in common use at the time. Especially the various water devices. These things may have been built by craftsmen that were contemporary to her travels. Or they may have been still-functioning waterworks from earlier times.

One place you mentioned, Chichester, had the engine/mill with salt and fresh water. I didn't read it as both types of water getting pumped into town. I picture it as the salt water providing the kinetic energy to turn the water wheel or run the engine that pumped the fresh water into town.

----------

The Chimney and the Tunnells can be looked at a different way too. We cannot assume that she meant a fireplace as we now know it (stone hearth, firebrick or metal firebox with narrow-faced surrounding enclosure, in which wood or coal is burned). I looked at antique heat sources and think that the Chimney would have been more of a furnace or stove.

Celia says the Chimney is directly under a window and across from another window. How is a fireplace going to fit down low below a window, and could it even vent right? She says the front of the black marble Chimney is so highly polished it is like a mirror and she can see the reflection of the cathedral outside the opposite window. How is the front of a low fireplace below a window going to have a wide enough border to reflect a big cathedral?
Whereas, maybe the Chimney she is talking about has a small or nonexistent opening, and is more of a flat expanse. Also, if wood or coal was being burned in the Chimney there would be dust and smoke residue around the external opening that would have messed with the polished finish.

The Chimney was likely a smoother version of one of these:

The Tunnells would most likely be on both sides of the window, with the Chimney connecting the span between the two (or more) Tunnells. Or maybe the whole thing was more like this, but with the Tunnells separated farther to allow room for a window and connecting to the horizontal Tunnell pipe to be vented out.

Or the Chimney was an antiquitech box with no fire near it. And the Tunnells were conduits carrying the aetheric energy from the roof to the heater box.

----------

You were wondering about pitched roads in America. We call it blacktop or asphalt over here, and it has been in use for a while. The state of North Carolina is known for a group of people called the Tarheels. These are workers who made tar and made roads from it, supposedly by flattening the tar with their feet. Like a human steam roller. Here's a quote from Wiki:

"Hugh Lefler and Albert Newsome claim in their North Carolina: the History of a Southern State (3rd edition, 1973) that North Carolina led the world in production of naval stores from about 1720 to 1870. At one time, an estimated 100,000 barrels (16,000 m3) of tar and pitch were shipped from North Carolina to England every year."

 

[Jd755]

From what I gather Celia rode on her journeys for the most part. Carriages were useless save for certain roads. She certainly went to and through places her contemporaries didn't.

She travelled with her mother, her sister, herself on the journeys usually in company with two male servants. No mention of armed guards being required though possibly the servants wore arms, she doesn't say.
At times she had to lead her horse, at odd times she had to dismount a carriage to allow it to be freed from mud and stones.
Horseback is how she could see and write about so much.

Celia does not describe any machinery or engines being constructed so the things and infrastructure she saw were existing prior to 1697-8. For the most part the movement and control of water gets her attention. Pipes get mentioned frequently as do wheels aka water wheels along with pumps.
Going off to investigate what these things is very, very tempting but I am set on getting to the end of this book before doing so.
Suffice to say the people of the day knew how to construct and more crucially maintain and extend water infrastructure.

Celia never mentions fireplace so it was a term unknown to her. Chimney on the other hand gets frequent mention along with mantle and mantle piece. She never mentions iron stoves being within and I for one am certain she would have if they had been there.
Describing what we call chimneys as tunnels is much more accurate. Looking up from inside them reveals them to be tunnels.

The etheric energy stuff doesn't fly I'm afraid. If it were possible you do not need a fixed device built into a house that has to "see the sky" to work.

Pitched has more than one meaning. Its another line of investigation I am resisting but pitched in the instance of the streets Celia mentions could be referring to the road camber to direct rainfall to gutters.

Tar and pitch were used with oakum in making wooden ships watertight.

 

[Deleted member 1432]

it would also fform such an Idea of England, add much to its Glory and Esteem in our minds and cure the evil Itch of overvalueing fforeign parts; at least ffurnish them with an Equivalent to entertain strangers when amongst us, Or jnform them when abroad of their native Country, which has been often a Reproach to the English, ignorance and being strangers to themselves

Bravo Celia, very well said and even more relevant today, imo.

Next followed four couple of Maurice dancers with their pranceing horses, in holland shirts with laced hatt riboned, and Cross swashes and garters wth bells, wth their two antiques drest in their formalityes, wth hankershiefs in their hands danceing all ye way.

Maurice Dancing was a very common term that has long since become 'Morris Dancing'. There are crazy theories about the etymology of this term. It usually gets related to the Moors - i.e. the Semitic Arabs and Jews who invaded Spain at some point. However, in Spanish, Portuguese and Catalan, the words 'moro', 'mouro' and 'mairu' imply ‘foreign’ or ‘of a different race’ and do not apply specifically to Islamic Moors. Furthermore, the Mouras (fem.) and Mouros (masc.) of northern Spain are the Spanish equivalent of the Irish Sidhe and the Faerie Folk of the British Isles - that area of Spain is precisely the part that the invading Arabs never went to. In spite of this the Mourish Dancing theory persists and it has even been suggested that Morris Dancing was originally the Spanish Fandango... Scaramouche, Scaramouche, can you skip the light?

She was born in 1662

This was some 13 years after the Rebellion within Cromwell's own victorious army and the resulting massacre of the Levellers, which was then followed by the crushing of The Diggers. As with all revolutions, especially those financed by jewish money, the new replacement regime is always much more oppressive than the one it replaced. Cromwell conned his supporters with promises of a 'new world order' with its Level playing field for all (proto-communism), hence 'The Levellers'. Of course, none of these promises were kept and this led to rebellion over the enclosure of common land. It's interesting to see that these enclosures were still in full swing during Celia's journey some 40 or so years later, in fact they were so severe that the roads and byways were being reduced in width to the point where only a single horse could pass along them.

up to the Cupilow which is in the Middle of the house, all Windows round and on ye top has a Gold ball that holds severall Gallons.

This reminds me of the Golden Ball on top of St. Lawrence's Church in West Wycombe, built by Sir Francis Dashwood, of Hellfire Club fame, around 1750ish.

 

[Starfire]

I hadn't though about the road being pitched with a camber. I reread those two excerpts and it makes sense with either interpretation. A perfect example of how written words can be misunderstood. Especially years later.

----------

The Maurice/Morris dancers in the coronation ceremony caught my attention also. My first thought was regarding the 'Nephilim look like clowns' idea. Then I wondered how they were able to insinuate themselves into a coronation.

But this wasn't the real coronation, was it? Celia was in a city with baths and pitched roads that wasn't London. This was some kind of local procession to honor the new queen. Perhaps when a new monarch was crowned they travelled all over the country and had repeat coronations at every city with a cathedral. This would be a wise choice to solidify your subjects. They participated in the celebration and became invested in Ann as their divine ruler blessed by God.

The presence and location of the Maurice/Morris dancers in the procession is curious. They were part of the procession and had some importance. They came after the armed regiments but before the local clergy, mayor and city council. I think the dancers were included before the local government because the dancers were associated with the national government or as a national phenomenon. If this was a travelling coronation these same dancers would have travelled with the entourage, based on their location in the procession. Local dancers may not have existed. This would be a way to spread the phenomenon.

--------

Stoneage vs. Stonehenge. Put a Cockney accent on both words and they sound the same (in my humble American opinion). Who knows what word Celia actually heard.

 

[Deleted member 1432]

The Maurice/Morris dancers in the coronation ceremony caught my attention also. My first thought was regarding the 'Nephilim look like clowns' idea. Then I wondered how they were able to insinuate themselves into a coronation.

What!?

I think the dancers were included before the local government because the dancers were associated with the national government or as a national phenomenon.

Morris Dancing is an age old tradition that has been an integral part of English folklore and custom since time immemorial. Each community would have its own troop of Morris Dancers who would perform at all of the Pagan festivals and even civic events, many still do so today. Morris Dancing has never been associated with the government or the Nephilim in any way whatsoever.

Stoneage vs. Stonehenge. Put a Cockney accent on both words and they sound the same (in my humble American opinion). Who knows what word Celia actually heard.

I am officially a Cockney and I can assure you that those words still sound different when pronounced with a cockney accent. However, I can easily believe that they sound the same when spoken with an American, Dick Van Dyke, Mary Poppins, fake 'cockney' accent as most words would do. The vast majority of British English speakers don't have the problem of running individual sounds together to produce for example "tourists" from the word "terrorists," therefore Stonehenge without the 'h' sound would be "Stown-Enge" not "Stonenge" and "Stoneage" would still be "Stown-Age."

To me Stoneage resembles the word 'Tonnage' which is a measurement of capacity related to weight. In other words, Stoneage could refer to the mass and size of the stones as being 'off the scale' so to speak. Just speculation though.

 

[Jd755]

I went to see Hampton Court 10 mile from London; it looks Like a little town ye buildings runn so great a Length on ye ground, Ye old buildings and ye New part wch King William and Queen Mary built. Ye Queen took Great delight in it. Ye new was but just ye shell up and some of ye Roomes of State Ceil'd but nothing ffinished. The roomes were very Lofty, round a Large Court and all the appartments intire.

Ceiled a term to describe the room having a ceiling and the sound of the word being the same as sealed cannot be a coincidence.
Lofty roomes are something Celia mentions a lot when describing buildings and to my mind there is a marked change in building going on with stone and brick replacing wood as the load bearing materials so the rooms can be loftier.

Here Begins my Northern journey

IN MAY 1697 ffrom London to Amwell Berry in Hartfordshire 19 mile, thence to Bishops Startford in Essex 13 mile, wch is a very pretty Neat Market town, a good Church and a delicate spring of Water wch has a wall built round it, very Sweet and Cleare water for drinking. There is a little river runns by the town yt feeds severall Mills.

Nowadays its Bishops Stortford. Again water power is being used and drinking water is sourced from springs. So different to today.

Thence to Little-berry one Mile, where is a house with abundance of Curiosityes all performed by Clock work and Such like, wch appears very Strange to the beholders, but the master was not at home so I saw no more than the Chaire they Set in when they are Carry'd about

Clock work curiosities sounds very interesting pity the master was out.

The Library farre exceeds that of Oxford, the Staires are Wanscoated and very large and Easye ascent, all of Cedar wood, ye room spacious and Lofty paved wth black and white marble, ye sides are wanscoated and decked with all Curious books off Learning, their Catalogue and their Benefactors. There is two Large Globes at each End wth teliscopes and microscopes and ye finest Carving in wood, in flowers, birds, Leaves, ffigures of all sorts as I ever saw.

She is describing the library of Cambridge university. Large rooms, black and white marble floors, stairs of cedar, finest carving she ever saw an inspirational and beautiful place. Now contrast that with a modern library the internet accessible through your personal screen interface. God help us all.
Tech of the day being telescope and microscope so the search for answers in micro and macro was being undertaken even in 1697. A time of horse, wind and water power no less.
Never mind the Romans what has oil ever done for us?
Apologies to the Monty Python team!

Huntington is but a Small Shire town; just by it is a house of the Lord Sandwich, yt it is pretty large. We enter a good Lofty hall, in it hangs the Ship in wch he was lost, that is the representation of it Cut out in Little and all things Exactly made to it; there is a good parlour and drawing roome: well proportion'd are ye rooms wth good old ffurniture and good Pictures. There is a Large dineing roome above wth good tapistry hangings, and its Ceil'd wth jrish oake Carv'd with points hanging down like fine ffret worke; this wood no spider will weave on or endure.

Spiders dislike of irish oake is something else new to me.

There are good bed Chambers with good furniture and fine pictures; over one of the Chimneys is a fine picture of Venus were it not too much uncloth'd.

Chimney once again being what we call fireplace.

Ffrom Huntington we came to Shilton 10 mile, and Came in Sight of a great water on the Right hand about a mile off wch Looked Like Some Sea it being so high and of great Length: this is in part of the ffenny Country and is Called Whitlsome Mer, is 3 mile broad and six long. In ye Midst is a little jsland where a great Store of Wildfowle breeds, there is no coming near it; in a Mile or two the ground is all wett and Marshy but there are severall little Channells runs into it wch by boats people go up to this place. When you enter the mouth of ye Mer it lookes fformidable and its often very dangerous by reason of sudden winds that will rise Like Hurricanes in the Mer, but at other tymes people boate it round the Mer with pleasure. There is abundance of good ffish in it. This was thought to have been Sea some tyme agoe and Choak'd up and so remaines all about it for some miles a ffenny Marshy Ground for those little Rivers that runns into ye Sea some distance of miles.

I do get the feeling people in and of themselves do not change in their abilities by generations. We are and always seem to have been inquisitive and notice things that grab our attention and often seek to figure out what went before. Until today where the pervasiveness of the screen excludes the inquisition of the world we walk in.
I am in no doubt a fundamental change of man is underway, at least for as long as the electricity generators keep running.

On the Side of ye hill over against Stamfford and on the Left hand over against the town Stands My. Lord of Exeters Burly house, Eminent for its Curiosity.

There is a fine vineyard, Warren and Groves wch makes its prospects very delightfull.

A vineyard no less!

The Sides up to the house are built in roomes for appartments, you ascend the house by Stone Steps-about 12- that all turn round; the upper Stepp is at Least 20 foot steps in Compass; the door you enter is of Iron Carv'd the ffinest I ever saw all sort of Leaves, flowers, figures, birds, beasts, wheate in ye Carving; very Large ye doors are- there is an Inside doore as Case to it. On the other side of the house is Such another door that Leads into a Court.

And people on here still use these very large doors as evidence of giants.
Obviously the iron doors are cast so the real carving skill is in the hand and eye of the pattern maker and the quality of the cast in the hands of the moulder.

You go thence into parlours, dineing rooms, drawing roomes and bed Chambers one leading out of another, at Least 20 that were very Large and Lofty, and most fine Carving in the Mantlepieces, and very fine paint in pictures, but they were all Without Garments or very little, that was the only fault, the immodesty of ye Pictures, Especially in My Lords appartment.

Once more lofty rooms are a sign of wealth and status as are the Mantelpiece carvings.

My Lord Excetter in his travells was for all sorts of Curious things if it Cost him never so much, and a great many of my Ladyes fine things were given her by her Mother ye Countess of Devonshire.

This chap obviously got about a bit.

Lord brought from beyond sea, on the Mantlepiece under a glass; its nunns work the ffinest Embroidery that it Looks just Like point or the ffinest Linnen you can see; this Cost a great Sume.

And was a collector. Wonder where he went?

Newark is a very neate Stone built town, the Market place is very Large and Look'd ffine; just by it is the Great Church wch is Large and with a very high Spire, there is prayers twice a day in it. There remaines the holes in the Church walls that the bullets made which were shott into the town in the Siege Laid to it by the Parliament army in the Civil warrs: the Castle was then demolish'd so yt only the ruinated walls remaine wch is washed by a very pretty river.

Interesting that she note bullet holes in the wall and the demolition of the castle. I understand the reasoning for putting a fortification beyond use, to deny it to an enemy, but demolishing a castle even with gunpowder is not an easy nor quick task to undertake.
Perhaps lots of these castles were just fortified houses.

The land is very Rich and fruitfull, so the Green Meadows wth the fine Corrn ffields wch seemes to bring forth in handfulls. They soe most of Barley and have great Encrease, there is all sorts of Graine besides, and plaines and Rivers and Great woods and Little towns all in view. They make brick and tile by ye town-the Manufacture of the town mostly Consists in weaving of Stockings wch is a very Ingenious art. There was a man that spunn glass and made Severall things in glass-birds and beasts. I spunn some of the glass and saw him make a swan presently wth divers Coull'd glass; he makes Buttons wch are very strong and will not breake.

As social commentary goes that's pretty good. She is describing Nottingham.

Nottingham is ffamous for good ale, so for Cellars, they are all dugg out of the Rocks and so are very Coole. Att ye Crown Inn is a Cellar of 60 stepps down, all in ye Rock Like arch worke over your head: in ye Cellar I dranke good ale. We were very well Entertained and very Reasonably att the Blackmoors head;

Sixty steps down is one helluva depth in rock. No idea what particular rock they dug into but impressive nonetheless.
Robin Hood gets no mention. Probably a much later invention.

Mansfield is a Little Market town built with Stone, there is a Little river; they make and dye Tammy's here.

No idea what a Tammy was or is but interesting nonetheless.

At the End of the town is an hospital built by a quaker for ancient people, its a good neat building, they were to have 8 pound a year a piece and the roomes and Gardens, but its Chiefly for their friends.

Philanthropists but only for their friends. Quakers eh, who knew!

At Blith was a very Sweete house and Gardens and Grounds, it was of Brick work Coyn'd with Stones and the Windows with Stone, all sashes; the building was so neate and Exact, it was Square wth 4 juttings out at Each Corner; it Stands high and Commands the Sight of the Country about.

Sash windows in use in 1697. Sash windows when set correctly are air conditioning devices. Lofty rooms with sash windows create a flow of fresh air in at the human level and stale warm air out at ceiling level.

The Gardens are very neate and after the London Mode, of Gravel and Grass walks and Mount, and the Squaires with dwarfes and Cyprus, ffirre and all sorts of Greens and fruite trees, its very ffruitefull-I Eate good fruite there

London or rather the gentlemen of London setting the fashion. And again note the abundance she frequently mentions.

It belongs to one Mr Mellish a Merchant in London, its in all parts a most Compleate thing and its scituation most pleasant.

A merchant so not of the aristocracy but of sufficient means to emulate them.

From thence to TodCaster 8 mile, wch is a very good Little town for travellers, mostly jnns and little tradesmens houses.

Clearly tradesmen were to Celia men of a poorer class as measured by financial wealth and status. Indispensable for constructing large buildings and parks etc they may have been been but where they sat in the grand scheme is something else I am resisting digging into.

This stands on a very large River Called the Whart.

Somehow Whart has been slid to Wharfe. As Todcaster slid to Tadcaster. I mention so many of these as it has a deliberate feel to it.

Celia sees York in a series of apparent contradictions.

Thence we go much on a Causey to Yorke 8 miles more, it stands high but for one of the Metropolis and the see of ye Archbishopp it Makes but a meane appearance. The Streetes are Narrow and not of any Length, save one wch you Enter of from the bridge that is over the Ouise which Lookes like a fine River when full after much raine.

We Eate very good Cod fish and Salmon and that at a pretty Cheape rate, tho' we were not in the best jnn for the Angel is the best in Cunny Streete. The houses are very Low and as jndifferent as in any Country town and the Narrowness of ye Streetes makes it appear very mean.

it Lookes better att the approach because you see the towers off ye gates and Severall Churches in Compassing ye Minster and all ye Windmills round ye town of wch there are many. Ye River runns through the town and so its divided, ye buildings Look No better than the outskirts off London Wappen &. The Bridg is fine arches and built on with houses; the Pavements wch is Esteem'd the Chiefe part of town where ye Market house and town hall stands is so mean that Southwarke is much before it

The Minster is very Large and fine of Stone, Carv'd all the outside, 3 high towers above the Leads; I was in one of them, the highest, and it was 262 steps and those very Steep Steps, there is a Gallery round the middle of the Church about halfe way that goes off these steps of the tower, where you may go round and Looke down into the body of ye Church and yt was so great a distance that the men and Ladyes that were Walking below look'd like Pigmyes a very little to us above.

On the Leads of ye tower Shews a vast prospect of the Country, at Least 30 mile round, you see all over the town yt Lookes as a building too much Cluster'd together, ye Streetes being so narrow-some were pretty Long. There is another river wch fills the ditches round the town Called Ffosse

In the Minster there is the Greatest Curiosity for Windows I ever saw, they are so large and so Lofty, those in the Quire at ye End and on Each side that is 3 storys high and painted very Curious with History of ye Bible; the painting is very fine such as was in Kings Chapple in Cambridge, but the Loftyness of ye windows is more than I ever saw any Where Else and by all accounts is peculiar; There is such another Window at the End of the Cross jsle just by ye Quire-all ye other Windows are of ye usual Size of other Cathedralls

There is a large hunters horne tipt with Silver and Garnish'd over and Engrav'd ffinely all double Gilt wth a Chaine, the same given by a Gentleman that also gave his Estate to add to the revenues of ye Church, on a dislike to disobedient Children; he used the horne When he hunted and drank in it too.

The Chapter house is very finely Carv'd and fine painting on the windows all round, its all arched Stone and Supported by its own Work haveing no pillars to Rest on, tho' its Length and breadth be Equal and at Least 24 ffoot Each. Here was a mint for Coyning the old money and plaite into new mill'd money; I saw them at work and Stamp'd one halfe Crown my Self-they dispatch worke very fast and have Coyn'd Severall 1000? . I see all parts of the work about ye pounding, the boyling, defineing and makeing Barres and Cutting out in ye mill and Bakeing and Stamping, all but Milling which art they are Sworne to keep private.

Seems coinage is being introduced to me.

at Marsborough 12 mile; the town is a pretty stone building, in it a large Market place; there is a River, the water Looks black, I ffancy it runns off from the Iron and sulpher mines which Changes the Coullr

Industrial pollution has a long history.

Sides of the hill by ye River is all rock and the Little houses are all built in the Rocks, there is a little Chapple cut out of the Rock and arch'd and Carved wth ffigures of Saints, I suppose its Called Sr Robert Chapple he was Esteemed a very devout man, his Effigee is Carv'd at the Entrance, there is an alter yt was deck'd wth flowers and the Ground wth Rushes for ye devout that did frequent it. Severall Papists there about and many that Came to ye Spaw and St Mongers well did say their prayers there.

Papists get rare mentions.

There was a Manuscript wth a long story of this Sr Robert. There is also the ruines of an abbey where there has been many bones taken up and some preserv'd as Reliques-there was a papist Lady Lodg'd where we did and our Land Lady at ye Inn where we were treated Civily she told us she went with this Lady among these ruines where the Lady would say her prayers, and one day some had been digging and brought up ye bone of a mans arme and hand and ye Ligature of ye Elbow held ye bones together wch by Strikeing Came asunder, and in ye hollow part of ye joynt was a jelly like blood that was moist, this Lady dipp'd ye End of her handkerchief in it and so Cut it off and put it up as a Relique

Sounds like someone conned the lady to me.

We were in a very pretty Garden of a Gentlemans of our LandLady Mason's acquaintance where was all manner of Curiosityes of fflowers and Greens-Great variety- there is also a Cherry Garden with Green walkes for ye Company to walk in and a Great Seate in a high tree that gives a pleasant prospect.

It would seem Gentlemen are not of the aristocracy and a surprise to see something akin to a treehouse platform get a mention and be accessible enough for Celia to climb up to it.

Ffrom Harragate to Cockgrave is 6 mile where is a Spring of exceeding Cold Water Called St Mongers Well; the Story is of a Child yt was Laid out in ye Cold for the parishes Care and when the Church-Wardens found it they took Care of it-a new born Infant-and when it was baptised they gave it the Name of " Amongst '' because they said the Child must be kept among them, and as the papist sayes he was an Ingenious Child and so attained Learning and was a very religious man and used this spring to wash himself; after sometymes that he had gotten prefferrment and so grew Rich he walled the Spring about and did many Cures on diseased bodies by batheing in it, wch Caused after his death people to frequent the Well wch was an Inconveniency to ye Owners of ye ground, and so they forbad people Coming and Stopped up ye Well; and the Story sayes on that severall judgments Came on the owners of ye Ground and ye Spring broke up all about his Ground wch forced him to open it againe and render it usefull to all that would Come to Washe in it-thus farre of ye fable.

Intriguing moral tale of the devil called fortune.

Now the Spring is in use and a high wall round it, Ye Well is about 4 or 5 Yards square and round the brimm is a walke of Broad stone round. There are 4 or 5 Steps down to the bottom, it is no deeper at Some places then a Little above ye Waste, not up to ye Shoulders of a woman, and you may kneel on a flatt Stone and it Comes to yr Chin- this the papists made use of very much.

More mention of Papists.

At one Corner the Springs rise they are very quick and there is a Sluce that it Continually runns off so as to keep just at the same depth, and it runns off so fast and ye Springs supply so fast that it Clears the Well presently after any body has been in. I allwayes Chose to be just where ye springs rise that is much the Coldest and it throws off anything in the Well to ye Sluce. Setting aside ye papists ffancyes of it I cannot but think it is a very good Spring being remarkably Cold and just at ye head of ye Spring, so its ffresh wch must needs be very strengthning; it Shutts up the pores of ye body immeadiately, so fortifyes from Cold, you Cannot bear ye Coldness of it above 2 or 3 minutes and then you Come out and walke round ye pavement and then in againe, and so 3 or 4 or 6 or 7 as many tymes as you please.

Celia writes in detail about all the bath and spring waters in regards their impact on health.

You go in and out in Linnen Garmts , some go in fflannell; I used my bath Garmts and so pulled them off and put on flannell when I Came out to go into the bed which is best; but some Came at a distance-so did I and did not go into bed-but some will keep on their wet Garments and let them drye to them and say its more beneficial, but I did not venture it. I dipp'd my head quite over every tyme I went in and found it Eased a Great pain I used to have in my head, and I was not so apt to Catch Cold so much as before wch I imputed to the Exceeding Coldness of ye Spring that shutts up the pores of the body. Its thought it runns off of some very Cold spring and from Clay.

Some of ye papists I saw there had so much Zeale as to Continue a quarter of an hour on their knees at their prayers in ye Well, but none else Could well endure it so long at a tyme, I went in 7 Severall seasons and 7 tymes Every Season and would have gone in oftener Could we have Staid longer.

She obviously got a lot of benefit from this treatment.

We went back to Harragat 6 mile and then we went to Burrough Bridge 8 mile-a famous place for Salmon, but then we Could not meete with any, but we had a very Large Codfish there above a yard long and more than halfe a yard in Compass very fresh and good and Cost but 8 pence. I saw as big a one bought then for 6 pence and six Crabbs as big as my two hands, the Least was bigger than one of my fists, all cost but 3 pence.

Celia much prefers fish to meat it seems as she mentions fish far more. Also note the size of the cod and crabs.

From Knarsborough we went to Rippon a pretty Little market town mostly built of Stone, 8 mile, a Large Market place with a high Cross of severall Stepps; we were there the Market day where provisions are very plentifull and Cheape.

I do wonder just the tales of impoverishment of the 16-1700's are just that tales used in the late 1700's and 1800's to get people into towns and industries. Not saying everything was rosey just seems the past has been used over and over again as the fear of choice for those who like to persuade.

In the Market was sold then 2 good Shoulders of veal, they were not very fatt nor so large as our meate in London but good meate, one for 5d the other for 6d , and a good quarter of Lamb for 9d or 10d , and its usual to buy a very good Shoulder of Veale for 9 pence, and a quarter of Beefe for 4 shillings; Indeed it is not large ox Beef but good Middling Beasts: and Craw ffish 2d a Dozn -so we bought them.

See what I mean?

Notwithstanding this plenty some of ye Inns are very dear to Strangers that they Can impose on.

Fleecing strangers eh, nothing new under the sun as they say.

There are two good Bridges to the town, one was a rebuilding, pretty large with Severall arches Called Hewet bridge-its often out of repaire by reason of the force of ye water that Swells after great raines, yet I see they made works of wood on purpose to breake the violence of ye Streame and ye Middle arche is very Large and high.

More water infrastructure being maintained. These people were not idiots and masters or more often called peasants and aristocrats. They knew what to do and how to do it.

This is very interesting for me as it is well detailed and shows cattle breeding was being undertaken. It also feature many more examples of word sliding worthy of note.

There are Severall good houses about ye town and Severall Gentlemens Seates about a mile or two distance: 2 mile off is a fine place of Sr Edwd Blackets, it looks finely in ye approach in the Midst of a good parke, and a River runns just by it, it stands in the middle and has two Large Gardens on Each side. You Enter one through a Large Iron Barr-gate painted Green and gold tops and Carv'd in Severall places, this is ffine Gravel walks between grass plotts 4 Square, with 5 brass Statues Great and Small in Each square, and full of borders of flowers and Green banks with flower potts. On ye other side of ye house is just such a Garden, only the walkes are all grass rowl'd and the Squares are full of dwarfe trees, both ffruites and green, set Cross wayes wch Lookes very finely. There is a flower Garden behind ye house; in it and beyond it a Landry Close, with frames for drying of Cloths, walled in. There are good Stables and Coach house and all the offices are very Convenient-very good Cellars all arch'd, and there I dranke small beer four years old not too Stale, very Clear good Beer well brew'd. Their kitching, pastry and pantry & all very Convenient; in ye pantry hangs a picture of ye dimentions of a large ox yt was fed in these grounds wth ye acco of its weight. Ye Quarters was 106 Stone 1? and ye hide was 12 stone and 8 pound, the tallow was 19 stone, the head 4 stone, ye Legs and feate weigh'd 3 stone 11? . This Gentleman breeds and feeds much Cattle in his grounds and has one of ye largest Beeves in England.

his house is built with bricke and Coyn'd wth stone wth a flatt Roofe Leaded, wth railes and Barristers, and a large Cupilow in ye middle-you may see a Greate way round ye Country. Ye ffront Entrance is 3 gates of Iron Barres and spikes, painted blew with gold tops, and brick work between ye gates and pillars with stone tops Carv'd Like flob

The hall you Enter is of a very good size and height. 2 dineing roomes and drawing roomes, one for the Summer with a marble floore, 6 or 7 Chambers off a good size and lofty, so ye most of ye beds were two foote too low wch was pitty they being good beds, one was Crimson ffigured velvet, 2 damaske beds, the rest moehaire and Cambet. Ye roomes were mostly wanscoated and painted. Ye best roome was painted just like marble-few roomes were hung. The ffurniture was very neately kept and so was the whole house, the roofe of ye Staires was finely painted, there was Severall pictures but not Set up the house being in mourning for his Lady, and her mother the Lady Yorke, wch dyed in a month or two of Each other. She left Sr Edward 10 Children, he has a great state and will have the 2000 P an fall to him that is Lady Mary Ffenwichs anuity. he was a merchants son at Bristol. The house is served with water by pipes into a Cistern into ye Garden, Cellars and all offices. This was the ffinest house I saw in Yorkshire.

Low beds being a problem, who knew?

Thence to Beverly 9 miles wch is a very fine town for its size, its prefferable to any town I saw but Nottingham. There are 3 or 4 Large Streetes well pitch'd bigger than any in York, the other Lesser Streets about ye town being Equal with them.

Celia does rather like Beverly as we shall see.

 

[Deleted member 1432]

I really can't believe that the Chapter House in York Minster was used for minting coins... or did I read it wrong?

 

[Jd755]

Celia does rather like Beverly as we shall see.

The Market Cross is Large, there are 3 markets, one for beasts another for Corne and another for ffish, all Large, the town is Serv'd with Water by wells walled up round or rather in a Square, above halfe ones length, and by a pully and weight letts down or draws up the Buckat wch is Chained to ye beame of ye pully. There are many of these wells in all the streetes it seemes its in Imitation of Holland, they being supply'd with water soe.

Beasts corn and fish. Vegetables never seem to get a mention so I surmise vegetables were grown so ubiquitously no market could be made for them outside of perhaps London.
The water being drawn from the aquifer via wells and buckets does seem laborious but in the apparent absence of springs there seems to have been no other choice which leads to the question why is Beverly where it is?

The buildings are new and pretty Lofty, the Minster has been a ffine building all stone, Carv'd on the outside wth ffigures and Images, and more than 100 pedastalls that remaine where Statues has stood of angels and the like.

Interesting that the statues have vanished. Wonder who vanished them and why?

Just by the Comunion table is the Sanctuary or place of Refuge where Criminalls flee for Safety-its a Seate of Stone work Cut all in one.

Does she mean it was a single stone block cut into a seat upon which a criminal could get the sanctuary of the church and presumably god, once they got their are physically down on the thing?

Earle of Northumberland's and Lady's Monuments-his is very plaine, only a marble Stone raised up with Stone about 2 yards high; his Name, by means of his great atchievments in the Barrons warre, great Percy Earle of Northumberland, is monument Enough to posterity. His tombe was a little fallen in and a hole So bigg as many put their hands in and touch'd the body wch was much of it Entire of ye bonds; the Skull was whole and the teeth firme, tho' of so many yeares standing.

Imagine doing that!
Imagine the Earls descendants and the church hierarchy allowing it to continue.

There are 4 good monuments all of marble of ye Wharton ffamily. In the middle of ye Church is ye tomb of St John with a brass Inscription on ye pavement, and at a little distance they shew'd us the wearing of ye pavement with ye obeisance of his votarys, this being St John of Beverly.

Brass being used to label the tomb rather than a carved stone presumably as its easier to repair and maintain?

At the End of ye Church is ye ffont, ye upper part of it, that is the bason was of one Entire marble of a Darke Coullour Ye Cover was Carv'd Exactly and of a Piramidy fform and very high.

Hmm now why does a font in a minster have a cover over it of pyramid form?
I have seen metal versions on display in various expo photographs on this forum but for some reason none of the fonts I have seen over my life have such a cover.

There is a very good free schoole for boys, they say ye best in England for Learning and Care wch makes it fill'd with Gentlemens Sons besides the free Schollars from all parts-provision being very Cheape here.

A social commentary titbit.

From thence we went to Hull 6 mile all upon a Caussey secured wth two little rivers running on Each Side wch is used to flow over their grounds it being a Great fflatt severall miles, and the meadows are Cloth'd wth good Grass by yt means.

She is describing a floodplain and the higher ground above it which must remain dry enough to traverse even with the rivers in flood. I'll lay odds that today this floodplain is all but entirely built upon. Yes we are that stupid?

The buildings of Hull are very neate good streets, its a good tradeing town by means of this great River Humber yt Ebbs and flows Like the Sea, and is 3 or 4 mile over at ye Least; it runns 20 mile hence into ye Sea and takes in all ye great Rivers-ye Trent Ouise, Aire, Don, ye Derwent and ye Hull, and Carries much water that a man of warre of all sorts Can Ride. I was on board a new man of warre yt belonged to the town and Called ye Kingston, it was but small, well Compact for provision and was built fit for swift saileing.

The town having its own man of war would be prudent if foreign men of war could sail inland so far. Don't know about landing sites but this estuary and river sound like an ideal place for armed invaders to pitch up at. Clearly foreign ships of trade were coming and going so their captains would gain knowledge of tide, current and wind which would be useful to an invading fleet.

The Humber is very salt, allwayes it rowles and tosses just like ye Sea, only ye soile being Clay turnes ye Water and waves yellow and soe it differs from ye Sea in Coullour, not Else-its a hazardous water by reason of many shoares ye tides meete. I was on it a pretty way and it seemes more turbulent than ye Thames at Gravesend.

Spoke too soon!

I really can't believe that the Chapter House in York Minster was used for minting coins... or did I read it wrong?

No you read it right.
She said they were coining old money and plate into new milled money.

Here's more.

The Embriodery at the table is almost yard deep, that was given by Lamplue. In the vestry there is a well of Sweet spring-water called St Peter's well, ye St of the Church, so it is St Peters ye Cathedrall is. There is a large hunters horne tipt with Silver and Garnish'd over and Engrav'd ffinely all double Gilt wth a Chaine, the same given by a Gentleman that also gave his Estate to add to the revenues of ye Church, on a dislike to disobedient Children; he used the horne When he hunted and drank in it too. I saw there the ffine tissue Cannopy that was held over the head of King James the first when he Came into England and ye head of 2 mace wch were Carry'd before him then. There I saw a Chest that was Triangular fashion, the Shape of ye Coapes when folded in ye Middle and so put into this Chest. The Chapter house is very finely Carv'd and fine painting on the windows all round, its all arched Stone and Supported by its own Work haveing no pillars to Rest on, tho' its Length and breadth be Equal and at Least 24 ffoot Each. Here was a mint for Coyning the old money and plaite into new mill'd money; I saw them at work and Stamp'd one halfe Crown my Self-they dispatch worke very fast and have Coyn'd Severall 1000? . I see all parts of the work about ye pounding, the boyling, defineing and makeing Barres and Cutting out in ye mill and Bakeing and Stamping, all but Milling which art they are Sworne to keep private. The Bishops Seate was 4 or 5 mile out of town on the River Ouise. Ffrom thence we went over a marshy Comon to the Spaw at Marsborough 12 mile; the town is a pretty stone building, in it a large Market place; there is a River, the water Looks black, I ffancy it runns off from the Iron and sulpher mines which Changes the Coullr;- We pass it over on a large bridge, tho' in some places they may


The mint she visited had only began production in 1696.

Coins produced prior to 1662 were falling into a state of poor condition. Between clipping and general degradation, the weight was lower than the face value of many of the coins. The Great Recoinage involved the return of silver coins by weight rather than face value, before being reissued to the standards of the time. Satellite mints were established at Bristol, Chester, Exeter, Norwich and York to aid in the process.

From here https://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/info/british-mints/#CivilWar

The English Civil War (1642–51) fractured the system once again. Fearing for the safety of his family and retinue as tension with parliament ratcheted, Charles I left London on 10 January 1642. The Royal Mint was housed within the Tower of London and remained under parliamentary control along with the south coast ports. Denied access to the mint and supplies of imported gold, forces loyal to Charles I established their own means of production, striking oversized silver pound coins of equivalent value to their gold counterparts.

The Royalists had a head start as there was already a mint in Aberystwyth prior to the civil war. In September 1642, its equipment was transferred to Shrewsbury, where a mint was established in connection with the recruitment of soldiers for the king’s army.

Royalist mints were subsequently set up in Oxford, Bristol, Truro, Exeter, York and Chester. Besieged towns contributed silver plate which was turned into coins using hand striking techniques, similar to those at the Tower. Many were poorly produced but as a series their quality holds up given their temporary nature.

From here https://www.royalmint.com/stories/collect/explore-coinage-during-conflict/

1696 – The Bristol Mint reopened as a Branch Mint as part of the Great Recoinage, along with Chester, Exeter, Norwich, and York

From here https://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/info/british-mints/

Yet to find any evidence other than Celia's that the mint at York was located in the chapter house.

 

[Deleted member 1432]

'The Great Recoinage' - I've never heard of that before, but it's very interesting. I wonder if it's a coincidence that it happened just after Cromwell had readmitted all the Jews back into England as part of the deal he made with them for financing and provoding mercenaries for his campaign? Let's not forget they were expelled for precisely the crime Celia cites as bringing about the need for the Recoinage - coin-clipping. I suppose that's what you might call a Coincidence Theory.

At the End of the town is an hospital built by a quaker for ancient people, its a good neat building, they were to have 8 pound a year a piece and the roomes and Gardens, but its Chiefly for their friends.

So the ancient friends of the Quaker were given 8 pounds a year to live on, which was presumably for everything other than the room and use of the gardens. I wonder what the average wages were at that time?

In the Market was sold then 2 good Shoulders of veal, they were not very fatt nor so large as our meate in London but good meate, one for 5d the other for 6d , and a good quarter of Lamb for 9d or 10d , and its usual to buy a very good Shoulder of Veale for 9 pence, and a quarter of Beefe for 4 shillings; Indeed it is not large ox Beef but good Middling Beasts: and Craw ffish 2d a Dozn -so we bought them.

If a quarter of beef cost 4 shillings (20 pence now) I bet the ancient friends of the Quaker didn't buy it out of their 8 pounds a year. As interesting as all this is, I feel it's a somewhat distorted view of life in the 17th century that comes from a highly privileged frame of reference.

I do wonder just the tales of impoverishment of the 16-1700's are just that tales used in the late 1700's and 1800's to get people into towns and industries.

The fact that land enclosure was rampant at that time, as Celia herself attests, would indicate that the common folk were under severe pressure even then. They were forced to become tenants of the local Squire or Lord and submit to whatever financial arrangement he imposed. Later, mechanisation would make the situation even worse for rural communities. This would force them into the new slave labour industries in the towns and cities or to emigrate as indentured labour to the colonies. At least, that's the scenario as I see it.

 

[Jd755]

Sidetracked me now you bugger!

Seems the York mint that started minting in 1696 was a dodgy affair from the get go. Issac Newton, yes that one, was the top dog in the Royal Mint of William III and Edmond Halley was involved also as his deputy which seems to me to be more than bizarre.
If the goings on at the Chester mint is any guide common human greed and deciet was to the fore.
The other English Mints

But other than Celia's account it is proving to be impossible to locate the York mint.

The whole recoinage thing seems weird and contrived by the people of the aristocracy to skim gold and silver from everyone they could though I do always wonder how gold and silver was ever paid for by coins of gold and silver.
Notes do get a mention and a bizarre, to me, loan from the Dutch government, not the Dutch Royal family note, point to my mind to the replacement of precious metals with paper and promises.

The idea of recoinage is the EXACT same as the one that has been rolled out over my lifetime, namely to stop thievery. Back then it was the physical clipping of metal and today its counterfeit copying metal coins and paper. Slightly different materials but same twaddle.

Quakers looking after Quakers rather handsomely is another human trait that endures today. 8 pounds did strike me as being a lot for old people to end their days on.

Any view is distorted through the lens of the one having the experience and doing the writing.
With going through this book I am endeavouring to keep my mind from seeing divisions by class or circumstance and seeking clues that contradict officialdom's history as I was taught it and for decades thought it to be.
As you said earlier there is not going to be any journals from the poor so too speak so everything that does come through time is biased to some degree.

I'm not convinced the pressure was as widespread or as uniform as we have been taught. Certainly there were great changes going on but then again there always is. She mentions a rather piecemeal approach to enclosures in the differrent counties she journeyed in. Not in those precise words but some counties are less enclosed and some all but totally enclosed.
As the Crown, whatever it is or claimed to be be it manbor institution or idea, is used as the vehicle to lay claim to the lands of the British Isles as such it must have first claim on the land if not its uses.
This enclosure act and process seems to me to be the non royal aristocracy laying claim to crown lands and getting away with it.

Probably not a new idea but one that seems to make sense to me.

 

[Deleted member 1432]

Notes do get a mention and a bizarre, to me, loan from the Dutch government, not the Dutch Royal family note, point to my mind to the replacement of precious metals with paper and promises.

It's a good sidetrack though. The Dutch financiers were exactly one and the same as those who financed Cromwell. Furthermore, by means of the 'Glorious Revolution' of 1688, the Dutch William of Orange took the throne of England. Then the 'Bill of Rights' came along in the following year which stripped the monarchy of its power and transferred it to Parliament. Politics became a career and those few who had previously taken on the responsibility of government out of sense of duty, were lost forever. A bit later In 1694 the bank of England was established by a mysterious group of unknown ...people and the national debt was born - which we are still paying off today and will never finish paying off.

It's quite amusing really that Celia's account of England at this same time is all about serenity, good living and gentle sight-seeing, when all the while England is being destroyed behind the scenes.

Issac Newton, yes that one, was the top dog in the Royal Mint of William III and Edmond Halley was involved also as his deputy which seems to me to be more than bizarre.

I agree, much more than bizarre. Edmund Halley's mother was named Anne Robinson ...which could explain a lot.

 

[Jd755]

Then the 'Bill of Rights' came along in the following year which stripped the monarchy of its power and transferred it to Parliament.

Not convinced it did but that's just me. It hid the monarchy with Parliament is my take on it. Royal assent has not gone anywhere.

The Dutch financiers were exactly one and the same as those who financed Cromwell. Furthermore, by means of the 'Glorious Revolution' of 1688, the Dutch William of Orange took the throne of England.

Who was financing the English Royals?
Quite honestly it reads to me that money as credit and debt, which is all it is, actual wealth to the money pushers is control of land, had been installed on the continent and in England nor the rest of the British Isles.
This island has so many natural resources of such a wide variety its insane. And it is an prize worthy of war as long as it isn't actually those who covet it do the actual fighting.

It's quite amusing really that Celia's account of England at this same time is all about serenity, good living and gentle sight-seeing, when all the while England is being destroyed behind the scenes.

I don't see it that way. Celia's account is clearly viewed from her own unique perspective in the time. Its a journal of journeys she took not an examination of royalty parliament politics aka machinations of men.
The destruction of England the country doesn't seem to have happened. More it was a forced takeover or annexation. The Enclosures wwere forcing people in to towns and crucially dependency on the infant government from Parliament. Without the Enclosure Acts and the Recoinage government from Parliament would be a dead duck.
The Enclosure Acts could well have been the sop to keep the aristocracy quiet as it is from their ranks any challenge to William and Parliaments right to authority would come from and the Recoinage was to get as much silver and gold out of the hands of all manner of people and under the control of government.

 

[Deleted member 1432]

Who was financing the English Royals?

William was a groomed Dutch puppet financed by the same source as Cromwell had been.

Quite honestly it reads to me that money as credit and debt, which is all it is, actual wealth to the money pushers is control of land, had been installed on the continent and in England nor the rest of the British Isles.

Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying.

I don't see it that way. Celia's account is clearly viewed from her own unique perspective in the time. Its a journal of journeys she took not an examination of royalty parliament politics aka machinations of men.

I wasn't claiming otherwise. merely noting the contrast between her 'perspective' and the social / political scene of the time. It's also strange in a way because Celia's father was not just a colonel in Cromwell's army, but also highly active on the political scene.

The destruction of England the country doesn't seem to have happened.

Depends upon your definition of England. To me it's the people who were being abused by the landowners the King, Parliament and the newly formed financial slavery of the national debt. William went on to cause mayhem and massacres in Ireland and was also behind the Glencoe massacre in Scotland, thus ensuring ruptures between the peoples of the British Isles that would last forever.

None of this is meant to devalue Celia's journal in any way. "It is what it is," as someone once said.

 

[Jd755]

William was a groomed Dutch puppet financed by the same source as Cromwell had been.

But what about Charles 1 and 2?

Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying.

Money prior to Dutch Williams appointment was not a debt based entity on these Isles. Its value was fixed by weight and it was a means of exchange.
Probably not much clearer as I am not sure how to word my thoughts.

I wasn't claiming otherwise. merely noting the contrast between her 'perspective' and the social / political scene of the time

Thing is the writers painters aka recorders of the time seem all to have been on the literate side of the divide, so too speak.

To me it's the people who were being abused by the landowners the King, Parliament and the newly formed financial slavery of the national debt.

So just the same as today even the players remain the same though the names and faces change.

 

[Deleted member 1432]

But what about Charles 1 and 2?

Where do any monarchs get their wealth - from the people they rule.

 

[Jd755]

We enter ye town of Hull from ye Southward over two drawbridges and gates, there is the Same Entrance in another part of ye town by 2 gates and 2 drawbridges from Holderness, and so ye ditches are round ye town to ye Landward, and they Can by them floate ye grounds for 3 mile round wch is a good ffortification.

Impressive stuff. Hull is extremely well protected from land and sea invasions. What made Hull worthy of such an investment in infrastructure and when?

In the town there is an hospitall yts Called ye Trinity house, for Seamens widdows, 30 is their Completmt , their allowance 16d pr weeke and ffewell,

Contrast that amount with the Quakers £8 a year.

they have a little Chapple to it for prayers; over this building is a large roome for Cordage and sailes, where they make them and keep their Stores. In the middle of this roome there hangs a Canoe to ye Roofe of ye Roome just bigg Enough for one man to sit in, and the Effigie of a man that was taken wth it, all his Cloths Cap and a Large bag behind him where in his ffish and provision were, these were all made of ye skin of ffishes and were ye same wch he wore when taken, ye forme of his face is only added and just resemble ye wild man that they took, for so the Inscription Calls him, or ye bonny boate man; he was taken by Captn Baker and there are his oars and spear yt was with him -this is all written on ye boat to perpetuate ye memory of it; he would not speak any Language or word to them yt took him nor would he Eate, so in a few dayes died.

Quite a tale. Anyone fancy making a stab where the mystery man came from?

Ffrom thence to Beverly againe 6 mile wch is all a flatt, thence to Brance Burton 8 mile, all likewise on a Levell wch they Call Loughs.

Loughs are Irish lakes and Lochs are Scottish lakes. Lakres are english lakes.Connected?
If so what's a Tarn?
Level land called loughs is a new one on me.

Here we Could get no accomodation at a Publick house, it being a Sad poore thatch'd place and only 2 or 3 Sorry Alehouses, no lodgings but at ye hall house as it was Called Where liv'd a Quaker wch were Sufficient people. The rooms were good old rooms being ye Lord of the mannours house- these were but tennants-but did Entertain us kindly, made two good beds. for us and also for our Servants, and good bread and Cheese, bacon and Eggs.

More social commentary. A Quaker being sufficient people wonder what sufficient refers to in this instance?
Standing perhaps?
But she tried alehouse first and surely the landlords standing would be less than a Quaker who tenants the Manor house.

Thence we went to Agnes-Burton 7 mile, the miles are long and so they are in most part of these Northern County's.

Not sure if I've mentioned it but long miles refers to how slow the travelling was.

A mile or two off we pass by another of his houses wch is newer built and very good Gardens, Called Barmstone,-we Eate some of ye good ffruite. The house is all built with Bricks and so good Bricke that at 100 years standing no one Brick is faulty; it stands on a pretty ascent.

This pushes brick making back to 1597.
Agnes Burton hall must be an older building and I have actually been there. Just a bit of current social interest!

In Scarborough Celia had this to say of the Quakers

I was at a quakers meeteing in the town where 4 men and 2 women spoke one, after another had done, but it seem'd such a Confusion and so incoherent that it very much moved my Compassion and pitty to see their delusion and Ignorance and no less Excited my thankfullness for the Grace of God that upheld others from such Errors. I observ'd their prayers were all made on the first person and single, though before the body of people; it seems they allow not of ones being the mouth of ye Rest in prayer to God tho' it be in the publick meetings.

thence to Aberfford 4 miles all on a heavy bottom, their miles are long and I observe the ordinary people both in these parts of Yorkshire and in the northern parts Can scarce tell you how farre it is to the next place unless it be in the great towns, and there in their publick houses, and they tell you its very good yate Instead of Saying it is good way, and they Call their gates yates, and do not Esteem it uphill unless so steep as a house or precipice; they say its good levell gate all along when it maybe there are Severall great hills to pass, but this account did Encrease on us the nearer we Came to Darbyshire, but in Generall they Live much at home and scarce Ever go 2 or 10 mile from thence Especially the women, so may be term'd good housekeepers

Nowt as queer as folk! To quote a phrase.

To Aberford we Came by severall pretty Seates in view, we Lay at an acquaintances house Mrs Hickeringalls: thence we went to Castleton Bridge 5 mile, where was a glass house; we saw them blowing white glass and neale it in a large oven by the heate of ye ffurnace. All the Country is full of Coale and the pitts are so thick in ye roade that it is hazardous to travell for strangers.

Reads to me that its the coal carts that have ruined the road.

Thence to Pomffret 3 miles wch Looks very finely in the approach. Its built on a hill all of stone, its a very neate building and ye streets well pitch'd and broad, the houses well built and looks more stately than any in York, only its not the tenth part so bigg, its a neate little town as I have seen.

Pomfrett has weirdly been slid to Pontefract!
English is a bizarre language.

Ye town is full of Great Gardens walled in all round on ye outside of the town, on the Edge of ye hill so the Gardens runns down a great way, you descend with them by severall stepps. Its a fruitfull place, fine flowers and trees with all sorts of fruite, but that wch is mostly jntended is the Encreasing of Liquorish wch ye Gardens are all filled with, and any body that has a Little ground improves it for the produce of Liquorish of wch there is vast quantetyes, and it returns severall 100 pounds yearly to the towns. The Leafe is not much unlike a Rose Leafe but some wt narrower and Longer, the Coullour is something a Yellower Green, Else the branches grow Like it wth double Leaves on a Stalke and severall all down ye Stalke, somewhat in the manner of Caliceily or Solomons Seale and much of that smoothness of Leaf

Pontefract cakes anyone?

Where do any monarchs get their wealth - from the people they rule

The bankers who create accounts of numbers. The same people who installed Dutch William.