SH Archive 1880s-90s: Roller Ships

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KorbenDallas
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2019-12-04 06:32:36
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KD Archive

Not actually KorbenDallas
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The roller ship was an unconventional and unsuccessful ship design of the late nineteenth century, which attempted to propel itself by means of large wheels.

To be honest, I am not even sure what these are. May be these ships are indeed ships. One way or the other, this is another "failure" story, pertaining to the 19th century tech. Today they are simply called Roller Ships, or Roller Boats. Meanwhile back in the day at least one of the below models was called "Buoyant Propeller Ship".
  • We have three so-called inventors "responsible" for the designs. Two of those designs are somewhat similar. The third one is differently weird, or weirdly different.
The above linked wiki article is (imho) confusing, and does not say much. One thing is clear, the designs failed due being impractical. According to the narrative, of course.

#1: 1880s Roller Ship
by Robert M. Fryer
An early attempt to produce such a ship was made in the early 1880s by Robert Fryer, who built the Alice at a cost of some £14,000 after twelve years of experimentation. It consisted of three paddle wheels in a rough triangular layout, with a flat deck mounted above them; there was apparently no other propulsion. The project was a complete failure, perhaps due to the lack of any propulsion other than the paddles.
roller-boat-fryer-1.jpg
roller-boat-fryer-2.jpg
roller-boat-fryer-2.jpg
roller-boat-fryer-3-1.jpg
roller-boat-fryer.jpg
KD: We have some Robert M. Fryer who allegedly built the Alice roller ship contraption in 1880s. I did not find anything useful about this Robert Fryer, or about his ship Alice. I noticed that Robert McCollum Fryer was somewhat active during 1870s-1880s, but what and who was he?
  • And where are the photographs of the Alice ship?
#2: 1897 Roller Ship
by Ernest Bazin
The first and only operational roller ship, the 280-ton Ernest-Bazin, was designed by the French inventor Ernest Bazin after five years of model-based tests and launched at Saint-Denis on August 19, 1896. It had three pairs of discs ten-metres in diameter and three-metres thick; each pair was independently driven by a fifty-horsepower engine and, under normal conditions, about one-third submerged. The main hull was supported just above the axes of these discs, 4m above the sea level, and was about 40 by 12 metres; it contained the engines as well as the crew housing. Bazin predicted the ship would be able to make about eighteen knots, perhaps pushing twenty at full power, but hoped that a ship of similar build with the power that could propel a convention ship to 20 knots could achieve speeds of 47 knots; many observers estimated, however, that the design was theoretically capable of thirty-two knots based on the size and power of the wheels and on early model tests. This compared very favourably with contemporary steamships; the fast ocean liners of the day could manage slightly over twenty knots, whilst high-powered military Torpedo boat destroyers could break thirty. The fuel consumption was also anticipated to be sharply reduced; a full-scale vessel was predicted by Bazin to consume only 800 tons of coal for a thirty-knot Atlantic crossing, compared to 3000–4000 tons for a 22-knot crossing by a conventional liner.

The Ernest-Bazin was a test ship, meant to test the design. If its test succeeded, a roller ship with 4 disc pairs was to be constructed to transport passengers from Le Havre to New York City. However, when preparing to cross the English Channel in early 1897, the design was found to be unworkable. When the rollers rotated through the water, each one brought up so much water adhering to it that it was braked heavily, causing them to rotate much more slowly than anticipated and with a much greater consumption of fuel.

Bazin died on January 21, 1898, a few weeks after announcing he had overcome these problems, and revealing plans for an ocean-going liner, with four pairs of discs, which would be able to cross from Le Havre to New York in sixty hours.

Ernest_Bazin_roller_ship,_1897.jpg

And checkout this obituary. How sarcastic and ridiculous is that?
  • Bazin did not live long enough to perfect his design, however. He died on the 21st January 1898 and the Cortland Standard drily noted, "M. Bazin, the Frenchman who devised the roller ship which was to cross the Atlantic in four days, himself rolled into the unknown world before his ship was a success." In 1899 the ship was sold at auction for scrap.
  • The only one, or the last one?
  • Source
bazins roller ship utica sunday tribune 5 feb 1899.jpg

The idea briefly resurfaced in the 1930s, with proposed designs for a large "tricycle" liner appearing in Modern Mechanix in 1934, and a much smaller four-wheeled boat in Popular Science in 1935.

KD: Same here. Who was this Ernest Bazin? At least we might have a picture of this "inventor".

ernest-bazin-pic.jpg
Priceless: Very early, Ernest shows a taste for science. The biographies give him the title of civil engineer, but we do not know where he studied. It was not, in any case, the school of arts and crafts of Angers where the records of students do not mention it. Captivated by navigation, he embarked in the merchant marine and became a long-distance captain. But while traveling the Indian Ocean, he studies maritime locomotion, which will be his first and last concern. Returned to Angers in 1851, he filed on July 7 a patent for an airship machine that he experimented in Marans, without much success. After inventing the anemometer to regulate the wind force on the aerostats, he focuses his research on industrial applications, especially since he is responsible for the mining of the basin of Mons.
#3: 1897 Roller Ship
by Frederick Knapp
What is 34 metres long, 7 metres tall, and buried under Lake Shore Blvd.? The answer is Knapp's Roller Boat, a cigar-shaped vessel that promised to make sea sickness a thing of the past, or so its owner claimed. The hull would meet an ignoble public demise on the shore of the Toronto Bay before it was finally covered over.

The_Knapp_roller_boat_and_its_inventor_With_the_history_of_the_invention_(HS85-10-9773).jpg

In 1897, Frederick Knapp, a lawyer in Prescott, Ontario, designed a type of vessel which he termed a "roller boat"; this was essentially a single long cylinder which sat in the water. An engine inside, supported on rotating bearings, caused the outer surface of the cylinder to rotate, acting as a paddle wheel. However, it suffered much the same flaws as Bazin's design; the hypothetical "mile a minute" was, in practice, no more than five knots, and the vessel proved difficult to control. After trials, the prototype was tied up at the harbour for ten years, before being sold as scrap.

Construction?
Roller-Boat-Polson-Iron-Works-1897.jpg

Propulsion+?
knapp-Roller-Others.jpg
knapp-Roller-Others2.jpg
Source
Born in 1854 in Prescott, Ontario and educated at McGill, Knapp was a lawyer with a passion for inventions. Designed and financed in part by the daredevil William Leonard Hunt, a.k.a. The Great Farini, Knapp's vessel was basically a giant paddle passengers could ride inside. A rotating outer cylinder moved around a stationary inner cabin or cargo area, propelling the craft forward. The unique design differed greatly from others of the era and raised many eyebrows in engineering circles, especially when Knapp estimated his craft could potentially reach 200 miles per hour. The vessel became known as "Knapp's Folly" among less supportive folk who believed there was insufficient passenger and cargo space to make the boat viable.

The_Knapp_roller_boat.jpg
The boat was launched on September 8, 1897 and tested on Lake Ontario a few weeks later. Managing just three miles an hour on its maiden outing in front of a crowd of thousands, the vessel performed slightly better with wider paddles in April 1898. On the back of this improvement in performance, Knapp revealed plans to build a version of the vessel 800 feet long and 200 feet tall with enough room to carry 30,000 American troops to Cuba to fight the Spanish-American war. Nothing ever came of the plan.


Sources & Links:
kd_separator.jpg
KD: I am not sure what they used to add to their water back in the 19th century. It looks like lawyer-inventors were trending. Doesn't it appear that just about any person could invent and build something. Their 19th century business startup supporting industry had to be booming.

On a serious note... what do you think we have here? Were these boats as shitty as they say, or we are witnessing remnants of the suppressed tech?

Roller-ship-designed-by-Ernest-Bazin-1896.jpg
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Username: Timeshifter
Date: 2019-12-04 06:59:13
Reaction Score: 11
The 1st roller ship with large wheels, Ernest Bazin, is this another discovery which they had no idea what it was, so suposed it was a ship? When in reality it was a land machine?

Ernest Bazin.jpg
This looks like the last place it should be is on water...

The others, again appear like repurposed something else.

Boring machine? Train car?

This bit.

'What is 34 metres long, 7 metres tall, and buried under Lake Shore Blvd.? The answer is Knapp's Roller Boat, a cigar-shaped vessel that promised to make sea sickness a thing of the past, or so its owner claimed. The hull would meet an ignoble public demise on the shore of the Toronto Bay before it was finally covered over'

Weve heard a similar story before... Wolseley

:unsure:
 
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Username: Cemen
Date: 2019-12-04 16:20:01
Reaction Score: 7
Not excluded. And maybe both types of mechanisms.


A screw system could also be underground.
Someone dug tunnels around the world.
There are several options. Or these are attempts to reproduce / restore lost technologies, the creation of which was attributed to random people. Or we were so stupid that the design bureaus are now engaged in the development, and before that it was available to the ordinary lawyer in his spare time.
 
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Username: Starmonkey
Date: 2019-12-04 17:45:08
Reaction Score: 1
?
It's a wonder these people ever got ANYWHERE.
Oh wait, maybe they DIDN'T.
Brokedown Palace...
Palatial RUIN
Trying to invent cruise ships before their time. Bon voyage!
Go big or go home!
 
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Username: jd755
Date: 2019-12-04 18:03:44
Reaction Score: 5
5-4-3-2-1
themole.jpg
Abandoned tech or something that fell through the time continuum?

waterwhhel.jpg
 
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Username: AnthroposRex
Date: 2019-12-04 21:48:43
Reaction Score: 1
I agree. My first thought was that it would work better across sand than water.
Or electrified in a different atmosphere so that it would have opposition to what it rode on.
Regardless, the proliferation of early kickstarter like projects suggests a level of trust that capital investment firms rarely have without proof of concept.
These seem like found objects that were assigned some guy who claimed to have it worked out. Then they give it a go and fail spectacularly.
 
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Username: KorbenDallas
Date: 2019-12-05 01:05:21
Reaction Score: 2
It would love to see what this thing was capable of.

roller-ship-2.jpg
The speed of this boat is proportionate to the circumference of the rollers. Experimental rollers have developed a speed of 60 per cent of the circumference of the wheels. At the trials the model (five and a quarter metres long) gave a speed equivalent to 32 knots. The rollers for the service between Havre and New York should be 22 metres in diameter, and should be submerged seven and One-third metres. Rear Admiral Coulombeaud thinks that such boats, well constructed, will have great stability and can be easily steered. He says experiments will soon be made on a boat 25 metres long and 11.8 wide, having four rollers of eight metres and intended to cross the channel. It is expected that this construction will enable the passage to be made from Havre to New York in about four days.
So nice to know that the professor "has good wishes of the human race"... as if he was not of the human race himself. A survivor?
 
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Username: 0harris0
Date: 2019-12-05 11:48:33
Reaction Score: 2
I'm confused!!
1895 or 1896?
1897?
test ship to test a 5-year trialled design, or operational ship?
5 years of 1/8th scale model (5.25m long) tests and they didn't account for water being brought up by the wheels?
and they didn't once think to test one full sized wheel in water?
they just built a 40x12 metre, 6-wheeled version to test an already tested concept...

baffles me how something could be invented, tested for years, then build it full size, yet they couldn't build something really obvious and simple like a mudflap to stop the water being dragged upwards!
 
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Username: wizz33
Date: 2019-12-05 23:49:34
Reaction Score: 1
all those ships looks like they should fly, i think the wheels where containers for water.
 
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Username: GlobeHead69
Date: 2019-12-06 22:46:08
Reaction Score: 0
I can't fathom how a "wheel" can be used as a means of propulsion - when it can produce zero traction in the medium (water)

This wouldn't work on any level with smooth wheels. A water wheel style wheel would perhaps work somewhat, but not a smooth one.

Found tech me thinky
 
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Username: KorbenDallas
Date: 2019-12-07 08:06:11
Reaction Score: 1
For mudrunners they could be just what the doctor ordered. What else could go over some liquid mud?
  • Atlantis is a fictional island mentioned within an allegory on the hubris of nations in Plato's .... and Asia Minor combined, but it was later sunk by an earthquake and became an impassable mud shoal, inhibiting travel to any part of the ocean.
  • Atlantis - Wikipedia
 
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Username: BrokenAgate
Date: 2019-12-14 19:36:14
Reaction Score: 1
You're right, these things are weird, and I have no idea what I'm actually looking at. How could that thing even work? Is it part of a much bigger machine of some kind, mistaken as a form of water locomotion?
 
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Username: wild heretic
Date: 2020-04-02 07:22:44
Reaction Score: 1
As someone mentioned, what gets me is the sheer massive expense in building a ful scale version that they have no idea will work. Its not cheap to build a ship. Who is funding this? It would have to be someone or some corp who wouldnt care throwing massive amounts of money down the drain.

Why not build a little model first and test it indoors? Thats what inventors actually do. Definitely very fishy. It could be something like a dimensional bleed through or something. Just wierd.
 
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Username: Trouvare
Date: 2020-04-02 12:51:55
Reaction Score: 0
They float, but I don't think that's the intent.

Those with the big wheels would work on mud, the spiral-bottom guy would work better.

Still, this comes to mind:

shes-tre-jolie.png
 
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Username: jd755
Date: 2020-04-02 13:26:57
Reaction Score: 1
It's what he did. PDF

After long years of experimentation with a model roller ship in a scale of 1 :25, he wanted to realize his idea of the construction of a ship that would roll over the waves.

The rollers are placed next to each other in pairs. Each pair is moved by a machine with 50 HP.

The impetus is longitudinal, not vertical, so the rollers run like wheels on rails, when of course disregarding the mobiIty of water.

The ship turned out to be unstable, it was undermotorised. The ship propeller was dimensioned too small.

The wheels slowed down the ship instead of pulling it forwards because the resistance of the water churned up by the wheels was too big.
 
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