Alternative Mega Theories

[Sudevi]

Y'all might be interested in what Emanuel Swedenberg had to say about free will in his book, Divine Providence. It's rather a detailed book so I'll paraphrase here.

The Divine gives us the illusion of free will because we must choose goodness instead of evil for ourselves for it to be meaningful and lasting for us. But it is the Divine's intention that all of us will eventually return to the Divine by choosing goodness. Yes, a paradox. Both exist simultaneously.

I had a teacher who explained it with this simile:
All leaves will eventually fall from the tree. Some fall directly to the ground, others get caught in updrafts, some are blown sideways, some hang onto the twig as long as they can. But all will eventually reach the ground. Like the leaves, we will all eventually attain enlightenment (or insert your word for reaching the Divine here).

All of this is nothing we can prove to the satisfaction of anyone else. It can only be "proved" to oneself, by one's own personal experience and understanding. For me, I find that I stay with a belief or understanding until it no longer suits and becomes limiting; then some of it is discarded, some kept, and I adopt a new belief or understanding. I've come to see that there is no one belief system in this world that can encompass the whole truth for me. It's initially upsetting to realize this, but ultimately liberating.

Onward, ever onward my friends!

 

[feralimal]

All leaves will eventually fall from the tree. Some fall directly to the ground, others get caught in updrafts, some are blown sideways, some hang onto the twig as long as they can. But all will eventually reach the ground. Like the leaves, we will all eventually attain enlightenment (or insert your word for reaching the Divine here).

well, keeping to your metaphor, "compost" or "worm food" = reaching the divine

I'm joking! Thanks kindly for your thoughts.

 

[Sudevi]

well, keeping to your metaphor, "compost" or "worm food" = reaching the divine

I'm joking! Thanks kindly for your thoughts.

Certainly a transformation!
Thank you for this thought -provoking thread. The give-and-take here helps to clarify one's own thoughts.

 

[ViniB]

Speaking of books, life and teachings of the masters of the far east has a lot of intetesting stories, can't say how much of it it's true but if 1/4 of it are indeed real, that in itself is mind boggling.

It's worth the reading, and it reminded me of the concepts described in the gospel of Thomas

 

[grav]

What happened to your Optimism and Theory strength scores?
While a good stab at Mega Theories, it's TMI. not dumbed-down enough for me.
My goal is to see posters' squash their major conclusions into a brief synopsis.
a précis, in other words.
a sharply condensed short paragraph of 3 sentences which states a simplified thought with major details.
My own precis is still a work in progress, mostly a rendition of the gnostic hologram matrix.
By gnostic, I mean the idea that Advanced Beings emanated the projection that we are trapped in.
Who created this mega madhouse?
Interesting that on page 1 is a video showing an arcade game.
And who wrote the computer code for this reality game?
maybe some misguided aeon who looks like Kevin Flynn, from the old Tron movie?

 

[feralimal]

What happened to your Optimism and Theory strength scores?
While a good stab at Mega Theories, it's TMI. not dumbed-down enough for me.
My goal is to see posters' squash their major conclusions into a brief synopsis.
a précis, in other words.
a sharply condensed short paragraph of 3 sentences which states a simplified thought with major details.
My own precis is still a work in progress, mostly a rendition of the gnostic hologram matrix.
By gnostic, I mean the idea that Advanced Beings emanated the projection that we are trapped in.
Who created this mega madhouse?
Interesting that on page 1 is a video showing an arcade game.
And who wrote the computer code for this reality game?
maybe some misguided aeon who looks like Kevin Flynn, from the old Tron movie?

I would invite you to share even more of your thoughts.

 

[grav]

I would invite you to share even more of your thoughts.

You first.
For now, I'll stick with Kevin Flynn writing code for a hologram game, which led to
. larpimg Titans, Garden of Eden, Tartaria vs Khazaria, present-day earthling zombies.

 

[Tomkat]

While I don't want to get in to a general discussion about drugs in what is already a pretty already broad thread - I think you are on point. I do agree that drugs can facilitate a personal, spiritual experience. Whatever we are talking about, personal experience aka anecdotal evidence is something we can know. We know what we experience.

Along with drugs, I think there are a few other ways to gain some sort of metaphysical experience, and I would include: meditation, madness, philosophy, 'healthy living', religion and religious practices, out-of-body experience (astral projection), near-death-experiences, pre-birth memories. Of course, with this sort of area of investigation, we can only know what we ourselves experience - but if you have had one or more of these sorts of experience and it fits well with one of these ideas, surely you would become pretty convinced.

I would still wonder though, whether there is any possibility of trickery, inter-dimensional trickery even - I'm just suspicious I suppose..

Really great post feralimal. Why though? Why do you do this to me? It's gonna take me a week to even start on this. Bloody hell. I don't even know where to get started.

Ok, this for starters, if enlightenment really was doable, we would have seen a lot more of it by now.
I'm with you on the gnostic stuff. I have certain 'fiters' or whatever you wanna call it re grand explain everything theories. One of those is the gender aspect. I think the truth of all that is one of the core realities that has been hidden; the truth of the feminine. Just me though.
PS feralimal, have you run across the Urantia book? (If you covered it and I missed it, apologies, still reading your content)

 

[Tomkat]

My take, that I think is coherent with the subjective, hypothetical nature of this thread, is that the work is with oneself. That one needs to develop and grow oneself. Try to be based in truth, try to act from love, not fear. And, that as one does so, the 3d reality will follow suit.

In the spirit of this response Fl, I offer this personal knowledge. The enneagram. Take one heaping teaspoonful of Sufi mysticism and add a cup of south American psychology and voila!
The Riso Hudson work is all you need. https://www.amazon.com/Wisdom-Enneagram-Psychological-Spiritual-Personality/dp/0553378201/ref=sr_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.uEGexXAUPFvJE6tMgcgvPe3ar0ERlmM6U6eINn7BTHLuxhmaPF5x9-snpC0UTpLFO0LziFT29kiNB8qi1usT1v9OaMJMlA-dDj9gjOPlfD0KbdH76lJPHCdl0FS6VWhexZd7vd3GedwI4IN6jLjVVix2ou7rCaIEU4fiqHrsG3hH6ZYJTue4glRBZDqtDw7-0PIF57-lbZ3nC3fgSfVIyd7Aj5FuDFtDUAXpDZb8njo.WlxOiWx3wGpLaogxiYuHsoUaLBijMDPD-yytfKyAPgE&dib_tag=se&qid=1746573189&refinements=p_27:RISO+/+HUDSON&s=books&sr=1-1
This is real work. Anyone can do it. It's real. It makes no promises. No enlightenment. Just self knowledge.

 

[Tomkat]

"Our scriptures make it clear that our world is a trap and maya is the trapping mechanism. It is the idea of butter or the temptation of curiosity or some wicked desire that brings us here in the first place and puts us in contact with the objects of our world. Once we taste it, we enter into a make believe world and stop thinking about going back. We become involved with the process of becoming and being, as embodied souls, imprisoned in our own thoughts and desire bodies, undergoing births and deaths, binding ourselves to the consequences of our own actions and delaying our own liberation. And who unleashes this potent force? God is described in the Hindu scriptures as Mayavi, the grand master of illusion. He casts his net of illusion to catch the individual souls that are swimming in the waters of life as free souls, enjoying the highest bliss. He then drops them in the lap of His dynamic energy or Shakti to take care of the rest of the process. Maya or illusion thus becomes a very potent instrument in the hands of the Divine Prakrti, the Primal Nature. Through the force of illusion, she holds the beings under its sway." - Maya - Grand Illusion Heart of Hinduism

According to Hinduism we were free souls, God caught and imprisoned us in this illusionary world.

Great stuff Tapioca. Makes me wonder if the Hindus are on to something.

 

[Tomkat]

What happened to your Optimism and Theory strength scores?
While a good stab at Mega Theories, it's TMI. not dumbed-down enough for me.

Right?

My goal is to see posters' squash their major conclusions into a brief synopsis.
a précis, in other words.
a sharply condensed short paragraph of 3 sentences which states a simplified thought with major details.

Yes...

My own precis is still a work in progress, mostly a rendition of the gnostic hologram matrix.
By gnostic, I mean the idea that Advanced Beings emanated the projection that we are trapped in.
Who created this mega madhouse?

Interesting that on page 1 is a video showing an arcade game.
And who wrote the computer code for this reality game?
maybe some misguided aeon who looks like Kevin Flynn, from the old Tron movie?

We are in a VR. Not school. Any theory that has as has been mentioned escapism as a central selling point should be questioned. As should any belief system or practice that is nothing more than empty promises. My belief system tells me that once this is over is when we will truly understand the meaning of 'sound and fury signifying nothing'. Of course there is a reason for all of this, there's a reason for everything.
My beliefs tell me that if you stand back far enough, you can see how so many of these 'options' are just that. How many of these theories offer some sort of explanation for or contextualizing of the absolute shit of this, our world? Any explanation or excuse really, for this world that makes you feel good should be discarded.
I don't need drugs or meditation or someone else telling me what's true. No one does.

 

[Tomkat]

Books
A Theory of Everything - Wikipedia

Sex, Ecology, Spirituality - Wikipedia

By American transpersonal psychologist/philisopher Ken Wilber

 

[Just]

Right?

Yes...


We are in a VR. Not school. Any theory that has as has been mentioned escapism as a central selling point should be questioned. As should any belief system or practice that is nothing more than empty promises. My belief system tells me that once this is over is when we will truly understand the meaning of 'sound and fury signifying nothing'. Of course there is a reason for all of this, there's a reason for everything.
My beliefs tell me that if you stand back far enough, you can see how so many of these 'options' are just that. How many of these theories offer some sort of explanation for or contextualizing of the absolute shit of this, our world? Any explanation or excuse really, for this world that makes you feel good should be discarded.
I don't need drugs or meditation or someone else telling me what's true. No one does.

How about this world as literally a prison planet? We’ve been sent here to learn to respect and appreciate the world we came from, a world in which chaos isn’t allowed to rule and pain and suffering are not inflicted on us. We’re learning to discover how to recognise evil and fight against the evil in ourselves. And when we succeed, we’re allowed back into the eternal lives we had turned our backs on. If we don’t succeed in this lifetime we have to come back and try again. The line in the bible - 1000 years is but a blink in the eye of God type of sentiment - makes me think that in the world we have left our many lifetimes trying to get to the level we need to go back will barely be noticed time-wise (in a world in which time is meaningless). This thought works for me: I’m here to learn and to recognise evil and fight against it.

 

[feralimal]

By American transpersonal psychologist/philisopher Ken Wilber

I looked into this a bit, I can't remember it all now. I do remember that his thought devolves into the standard communal consciousness idea, he holds to nonduality (I don't) as well as taking science/history etc at face value.

Btw, you say transpersonal - is this a reference to his wig wearing in recent videos, eg:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoCB3FlAeiQ

 

[Tomkat]

I looked into this a bit, I can't remember it all now. I do remember that his thought devolves into the standard communal consciousness idea, he holds to nonduality (I don't) as well as taking science/history etc at face value.

Btw, you say transpersonal - is this a reference to his wig wearing in recent videos, eg:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoCB3FlAeiQ

All good points. Id still recommend (to be fair, its been 20+years for me...), but valid criticisms. PS nice one.....trans,wig i get it
Threw a few logs in, this thread is a great campfire we should keep it going. He is worth reading imo. Like Miles Mathis sort of, doesnt answer everything but can be useful and instructive.

 

[feralimal]

PS feralimal, have you run across the Urantia book? (If you covered it and I missed it, apologies, still reading your content)

I just took a look at the wiki:
The Urantia Book - Wikipedia

And I found the 'thought adjustor' idea was interesting:

Each person is said to receive one such fragment at the time of his or her first independent moral decision, on average around the age of five years and 10 months.[53][51] The Adjuster then serves noncoercively as a divine partner in the mind of the individual for the rest of life, and to the extent that a person consents with their free will to want to find God, it leads the person toward more mature, spiritualized thinking. A person's Thought Adjuster is described as distinct from either the soul or the conscience. In The Urantia Book's teachings, the degree to which a human mind chooses to accept its Adjuster's guidance becomes the degree to which a person's soul "grows" and becomes a reality that can then survive death. The soul is in essence an embryonic spiritual development,[56] one parental factor being the divine Adjuster and the other being the human will.[57]

I'm interested in this as it is an idea that can be explored personally. It makes an interesting distinction between the soul and instructing the soul.

Overall though, the outline described on the wiki make the Urantia eems like a naive, belief-based cosmological theory. It accepts science, there is a framed experience. It seems to be some sort of 'Jesus and science' idea.

In the spirit of this response Fl, I offer this personal knowledge. The enneagram. Take one heaping teaspoonful of Sufi mysticism and add a cup of south American psychology and voila!

I've just read the description on the link you posted. It takes about different types of people. If you like this, something else I've heard about is Human Design - which also talks about different types of people etc. Spiral Dynamics is another.

My general position on these sorts of explanatory frameworks is that while I'm open to hearing interesting ideas, how is it that one can test the truth of thing? In general, I suspect these things are lots of nice flattering words, probably thought provoking too, but what relation do they have to reality? How is it that some person (the originator of the theory) became aware of so much information, and why does understanding the truth of reality apparently involve reallocation of my resources on books, seminars and courses? I've no issue paying for entertainment/stories, or improving ideas, but I don't think these external proposals are able to help the individual get closer to truth - one does the work oneself. I also suspect that these ideas are often distractions.

Nowadays, I tend to dismiss anything that is not personally evidential or experiential.

 

[Tomkat]

I just took a look at the wiki:
The Urantia Book - Wikipedia

And I found the 'thought adjustor' idea was interesting:


I'm interested in this as it is an idea that can be explored personally. It makes an interesting distinction between the soul and instructing the soul.

Overall though, the outline described on the wiki make the Urantia eems like a naive, belief-based cosmological theory. It accepts science, there is a framed experience. It seems to be some sort of 'Jesus and science' idea.

Yeah

I've just read the description on the link you posted. It takes about different types of people. If you like this, something else I've heard about is Human Design - which also talks about different types of people etc. Spiral Dynamics is another.

My general position on these sorts of explanatory frameworks is that while I'm open to hearing interesting ideas, how is it that one can test the truth of thing?

That's what's cool about this system - the only 'instructions' are read it and understand it. I did,now I do.

In general, I suspect these things are lots of nice flattering words, probably thought provoking too, but what relation do they have to reality? How is it that some person (the originator of the theory) became aware of so much information, and why does understanding the truth of reality apparently involve reallocation of my resources on books, seminars and courses?

Ok ok. You don't have to buy anything. The reason I mentioned it is because you were talking about knowing thyself; "the work is with oneself". Jesus would approve I have no doubt. Seriously. It's just a book, it was the quickest link I could find.

Nowadays, I tend to dismiss anything that is not personally evidential or experiential.

Fair enough. Quick sidenote: people often cite certain drugs in relation to mystical or metaphysical experiences. Hallucinogenics right? Worth mentioning other drugs like MDMA have been ascribed to self epiphany type experiences (again, self knowledge aspect), like curing neuroses etc...

 

[feralimal]

I know I've not done due diligence in my 2 reviews there. I think I was explaining why I don't think I will look deeper as I think I see problems with the setup.

Re drugs, I don't advocate altering one's consciousness. Actually, I think I don't advocate alteraring oneself at all according to any instruction manual or idea. I advocate developing oneself from within, whatever that is, and becoming a fuller expression of that - and nevermind the external ideas/beliefs/hypotheses.

 

[Tomkat]

I know I've not done due diligence in my 2 reviews there. I think I was explaining why I don't think I will look deeper as I think I see problems with the setup.

Re drugs, I don't advocate altering one's consciousness. Actually, I think I don't advocate alteraring oneself at all according to any instruction manual or idea. I advocate developing oneself from within, whatever that is, and becoming a fuller expression of that - and nevermind the external ideas/beliefs/hypotheses.

Yeah of course, seeing what sticks. For me Wilber is just good reading, and a perfect title for this thread. As for the enneagram, I'm vouching for it. I think everyone should read it.

 

[Tapioca]

How about this world as literally a prison planet? We’ve been sent here to learn to respect and appreciate the world we came from, a world in which chaos isn’t allowed to rule and pain and suffering are not inflicted on us. We’re learning to discover how to recognise evil and fight against the evil in ourselves. And when we succeed, we’re allowed back into the eternal lives we had turned our backs on. If we don’t succeed in this lifetime we have to come back and try again. The line in the bible - 1000 years is but a blink in the eye of God type of sentiment - makes me think that in the world we have left our many lifetimes trying to get to the level we need to go back will barely be noticed time-wise (in a world in which time is meaningless). This thought works for me: I’m here to learn and to recognise evil and fight against it.

In Buddhism we really are in a prison. We (souls) crave physical experiences, feel joy, suffer, die, forget, and start all over again. During each lifetime, we lose attachment to something or worse, gain attachment to something else. This sets the situations we are reincarnated to. Over time we are set free. It is an ongoing cycle.

What bothers me about Buddhism is that you have to lose attachment even to your family. Buddha abandoned his wife and newborn when he set up on his journey to be enlightened. She begged him to come home and he turned her away. He doesn't seem like so good a person.

Ultimately, Buddhism is a selfish religion. You reach enlightenment for yourself. This doesn't make the world better. This doesn't help anyone but YOU. Hmmm...