Famous Falsified Musicians: Ludwig Van Beethoven

Very good research.

Now, answer this question: how were the classical scores attributed to Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Vivaldi, and Beethoven written? Obviously, the same group of people who wrote this music, also came up with the paintings credited to Da Vinci, and the huge body of work ascribed to Euler. How did they do it? Let us focus on the classical music itself. They composed these partitures very fast, using a secret code and algorithms. Are there any clues which have been discovered so far, as an example as they pertain to the music attributed to Mozart? What if they were able to translate sequences of very special numbers, and equations, into music?

The first real classical music composers were Brahms, Liszt and Wagner.
 
Very good research.

Now, answer this question: how were the classical scores attributed to Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Vivaldi, and Beethoven written? Obviously, the same group of people who wrote this music, also came up with the paintings credited to Da Vinci, and the huge body of work ascribed to Euler. How did they do it? Let us focus on the classical music itself. They composed these partitures very fast, using a secret code and algorithms. Are there any clues which have been discovered so far, as an example as they pertain to the music attributed to Mozart? What if they were able to translate sequences of very special numbers, and equations, into music?

The first real classical music composers were Brahms, Liszt and Wagner.
You ever here of the "rainman", I don't know how it was for the older music folk but the modern ones say they channel this "rainman/rainmaker" entity who will write through them, sometimes through a form of automatic writing. Most of the info relating to this has been scrubbed in the last ten years or so with the purge of old forums and videos.

https://spiritspeakstruths.blogspot.com/2009/11/rain-man-in-music.html
 
Certainly channeling has a lot to do with this. However, channeling accesses the astral plane which is not subject to the force of terrestrial gravity, and would not be able to coexist with an orbiting Earth (30km/s around the Sun). Those who use channeling to explain something must understand that this phenomenon is possible only on a stationary Earth, nowhere else.

However, let me share with you this information, the golden mean/fibonacci sequences discovered in the music composed by "Mozart" and "Bach":

https://stolenhistory.net/threads/new-radical-chronology-of-history.3767/#post-35510
 
An excellent topic.

Probably these songs were created by some computer program of the previous civilization, and not by several musicians, therefore they maintain the same style. As for the scores, LVB's job has been to transcribe them if he existed.

But it may be that he actually created everything they say, or just ascribes to him all the similar musical production of other musicians of the time. I'm not a musician, so it's hard to judge whether something like that would be humanly possible.
 
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I would like to present to you the enigmatic and astoundingly deaf bachelor, Ludwig Van Beethoven. The man, the myth and well... mainly the myth.


He began composing at 7 (similar to Mozart's 6: SH Archive - Music | - Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - anything strange there?) however even this is disputed as being too old in some circles.


At 14 he was appointed as the organist to the Choir of Maximilian Franz. I believe the age because I once saw Silverchair perform live when they were 14yo's playing 3, and sometimes 4, chord grunge songs.




Even so, there is no disputing that when he first began to get sick and deaf he was still pumping out the music with a bravado that is rarely, if ever heard of. In fact, during his sickness it is as if he wern't both deaf and sick as the quality, variance and complexity of his works amplified.

Putting this aside, he had a relatively easy life. Multiple on-going lawsuits, family deaths, family fights, family attempted suicides, complete failure to obtain a wife (even though he was the most famous composer in Vienna) and money problems due to inconsistent working arrangements. None, of these minor issues held him back, nor would they as he was a genius.

At 24 (1795), he had finished his studies with Haydn (left) and Albrechtsberger (right).


In the year of 1795 that he finished his studies he was at his most prolific. He composed 146 piano, violin, vocal, orchestral and symphonic pieces in this uneventful year of study, final exams, his first famous performances, intense courting and the subsequent denied marriage proposal to the semi-famous touring singer Magdalena Willmann. As if that wasn't enough, his old teacher, Haydn, visited LVB from London and finally his brother Carl visited him.

Amid the compositions that he released this year were the famed Trios for Piano (opus 1). An average of one piece every 2.5 days. Not a shabby effort at all.

There are many web pages spewing factoids about when our deaf mastermind actually went deaf but for the purpose of this thread I will go with the the year 1797 as detailed Chronology of Beethoven's life - Ludwig van Beethoven's website.

This puts him at the tender age of 26. You can of course find that this number varies due to his desire to keep his deafness a deep dark secret. Alas, being deaf is not the kind of thing that one can keep secret for very long, especially when you are the renowned musician Ludwig Van Beethoven (LVB) who is performing in front of paying students, packed church gatherings and large orchestral settings.

At 26, he had already composed a handful of songs. 433 to be exact. These works range from singular piano/violin pieces, duo's, trio's, chamber(4 instruments), septets, vocal arrangements over chamber music , orchestral and symphonies (in excess of 30 of these). Each piece contained at minimum three parts: intro, middle and end. Many of them have non repeating melody lines in them that evolve as the piece progresses.

A surprising thing to note is that in the late 1700's, LVB didn't have access to a computer to copy/paste melody lines or to undo mistakes. Instead he used paper and ink. The paper and ink was of such high quality that it lasted nearly 250 years until now and is still perfectly legible and thus open to melodic interpretation. If he made a mistake he would have to start again.


Beethoven by the numbers
Some stats to ponder. Please note that I massively underestimate the parts and melodies and most likely the instruments sections and variations but I would have to spend more precious time on the calculations to determine that one. It is thus better to undershoot than exaggerate. So, the numbers you are about to see are lower than the actual, so you will have to use your imagination to project.

First you should know what we are dealing with. Our bard wrote a lot of songs. 1285 to be as exact as one could be. Forgeries, variations and lost works could be argued to lower or raise this number but in the general way of our times, this is the number I calculated. The spreadsheet is linked below so you can see my methodology.

Here is a graph I complied from a thorough list of all his works and mapped them to the accepted year of completion and finally I graphed them.


Below is an example of 2 pages (p212 and p253) from his 263 page manuscript for the Orchestral Symphony, Opus.60, 1806. He had 84 of these orchestral symphonies and a further 54 slightly smaller, usually by a few pages, stage productions, operas, plays etc. You can see his attempt to scribble out a mistake or two. He really should have invented an eraser as it would have been easier than being paranoid writing out the 794,130 pages of manuscripts over his career. Yes, you did read that right. LVB, at a low estimate would have had to have scribed nearly eight hundred thousand pages of sheet music in his life time.


An Orchestral piece averages more at 270 plus pages. There are more than 10,000 individual melodies across all instruments and this is just a standard example.

I mapped it out and again I took the low ball on this.

SongsAverage PagesMedley's Per Sheet Music PageInstruments
Vocal57412165
Chamber37226165
Keyboard962822
Orchestral8427016100
Stage522601670
Keyboard/Vocal4616162
Uncategorised06164
Total128579413012706080
Year35.6944444422059.16667352946.6667
Day0.09779299860.43607306966.9771689

So, every day for 36 years LVB wrote, on average and at minimum, 60 pages of musical notation and 966 melodies. Illuminati confirmed. 3, 6 and 9! This doesn't include his recently found lost manuscripts...which I discount as 100% false although they may hint at what other musicians contributed...

Now I would like to say a few points here.

1. Total songs came out at 1285 which includes variations of compositions. If not included, the number is about 100 less but I chose to include them because his variations vary so much that they would have required much effort.

2. I target his deaf age to highlight how amazing this deaf guy was. Many of his pieces have such complex interplay of vocals, instruments and movements that many orchestras require weeks to perfect a single piece.

Pre deafness < 26Post Deafness > 26
433852
33.69%66.30%

3. Over his productive working lifetime of 36 good years before his untimely death at 56, he averaged 35.69 pieces per year.


4. He was a huge lover of Irish, Scottish, Welsh and British music. He was such a big lover that 10% of all pieces and variations were in this category. He didn't just take an old poem(although he did do that on many occasions), he created standard formats and interpretations of such songs as St Patrick's Day, God Save the King and Rule Britannia. The last two had 5 and 7 variations respectively. He LOVED this style even more than any other single style or nationality (including his native Country it seems). Come to think about it, he kind of looks Irish... in a mad hatter kind of way.




Some of his 'most loved' songs grouped by his release dates.

37 Scottish songs over 2 volumes 1815-19 (45-49yo)
O! Thou Art the Lad of my Heart​
Sympathy ("Why, Julia, say, that pensive mien?")​
Bonnie Laddie, Highland Laddie ("Where got ye that siller moon")​
Dim, Dim is my Eye​
The Sweetest Lad was Jamie​
Again, my Lyre​
O Swiftly Glides the Bonny Boat​
Could This Ill World Have Been Contriv'd​
O Cruel Was My Father​
O, How Can I Be Blithe and Glad​
O, Had My Fate Been Join'd With Thine​
The Lovely Lass of Inverness​
O Mary, at Thy Window Be​
Come Fill, Fill, my Good fellow!​
Behold my Love how Green the Groves​
The Maid of Isla ("O maid of Isla from yon cliff")​
O Sweet were the Hours​
Music, Love and Wine ("O let me music hear, night and day!")​
Sally in Our Alley ("Of all the girls that are so smart")​
The Highland Watch ("Old Scotia, wake thy mountain strain")​
Jeanie's Distress ("By William late offended")​

57 Irish songs over 3 volumes 1810-12 (40-42yo)
Including​
Air Tirolien: “I bin a Tiroler Bua”​
Air Écossais: “Bonny Laddie, Highland Laddie”​
Air de la petite Russie, also known as Volkslied aus Kleinrussland​
Air Écossais: “The Pulse of an Irishman” or “St. Patrick’s Day”​
Air Rirolien: “A Madel, ja a Madel”​
Air Écossais: “Merch Megan” or “Peggy’s Daughter”​
Air Russe: “Schöne Minka”​
Air Écossais: “O Mary, at thy Window Be”​
Air Écossais: “Oh, Thou art the Lad of my Heart”​
Air Écossais: “The Highland Watch”​

26 Welsh songs over 1810-15 (40-45yo)

9 British plus "Rule Britannia" (7 variations), "God Save the King" (5 variations) 1803-17 (32-47yo)

Total: 129 Songs from Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Britain.



Conclusion



The above data shows that this is a complete impossibility considering the high quality and variance of the works.

As one of my favorite classical composers, my favorite is Bela Bartok, I was saddened to come to the following obvious conclusion but sorry Ludwig my old friend, you are nothing more than a catchall for many other musicians from a previous time. A collection of musicians works, all clustered into one potentially real composer discography. What did he write exactly? We may never know but I for one am still going to listen to him but with different ears.

Statistics and Sources
Stats were calculated from data found List of compositions by Ludwig van Beethoven - Wikipedia (yes, yes I know it's wikipedia but they were the only source that was able to be neatly copied into a spreadsheet. I did compare with other sites and it appeared to be a consensus.
See my spreadsheet in read-only mode. It's a bit of a mess... Beethoven Data on CryptPad
I first came across this topic of LVB on a Facebook group run a good researcher "Marcia Ramalho". He said the following which kicked me off down a two day rabbit hole.

Side note: It took nearly two days to put all of this together and there are potentially minor mistakes but with such a lot of data the same conclusion would still be reached (I hope).


View attachment 7729

RIP my bonny lad of many men!

It would be cool to present this research (anonymously to prevent some prejudice answer) to some famous composer available on some social media and see what they think about it
 
It would be cool to present this research (anonymously to prevent some prejudice answer) to some famous composer available on some social media and see what they think about it

Meet the experts :cool:

Maybe just invite one into the thread .... Who would be good?
 
Meet the experts :cool:

Maybe just invite one into the thread .... Who would be good?
I don't know:LOL:
I was thinking to set up a trap... We present only the numbers without saying it's Beethy himself. How is it? Don't know where though... and who!
 
I like that. Let's do it. We can post the results back here so they don't have to sign up. Thoughts?
 
I am not really an expert on musical things. Maybe someone here can give us some names to do the test? Someone with some musical background could give us a hint probably
 
To further fantasize, maybe the oldtimers aka people allegedly living 300 to 900 years back in 2000 BC, left their legacy behind them, and it needed to be reassigned to 'non-mythical' person(s).
 
While i'm with the OP that certain pieces may have been attributed to his output, i generally disagree with the notion that Beethoven is a made-up figure, this is more fitting for Bach and Mozart, since their output is almost too perfect, aside from some Mozart works.
The main point that speaks against it, that his compositions in general have a more human quality too them, that whats sets Beethoven apart from Mozart and Bach.
Even in his great 9th symphony this can't be denied, when listening to the 4th movement, there are some structural issues, beside the magnificent beauty of the piece.
This comes more obvious when looking at his most important compositions, the 32 piano sonatas.
His sonatas were influenced by the most sophisticated form in music at that time, the sonata form, already perfected by Haydn and Mozart. Another major influence on Beethoven is of course the bible of music, the well-tempered clavier.
Some parts about Beethoven's life and his interactions with Haydn and Mozart might have been made up, but in either case, he tried to outdo the style of composition known to him early on, this is something very natural you can see with modern musicians. When someone gets inspired by something great, he can push himself to the limit.
For me Beethoven's style seems authentic, because his compositions are not as clean as Bach and Mozart, not even speaking of the quantity, and he might be one of the last composers, influenced by the Old Worlds musical masters, whoever they really were, that suffered through the cataclysm.
That might explain why some later composers adored Beethoven, while still considering him sometimes to be rough and imperfect.
 
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Mad tempo prescriptions: Beethoven may have read metronome incorrectly

For centuries, musicians have been torturing themselves with Beethoven's sometimes insanely fast tempo prescriptions. Did the genius perhaps read his metronome incorrectly? This is suggested by a new study published in the journal "Plos One".

Irrwitzige Tempovorschriften: Beethoven könnte Metronom falsch abgelesen haben
 
In our modern times, we have the Beatles, and they had the 4 in the band and the genius George Martin at the wheel, and they didn’t write as much as these single composers writing far more complicated music.
Andrew Loyd Webber?
Are modern composers just lazy? Even our best musicians/writers can’t put out all genius works—all the time. If you’re lucky, you get a hit song every 100 tries.
Maybe the writers of history have compressed nearly 1000 years of work into just a few composers. Makes more sense.
Webber is a glorified plagiarist. His so called music rips off other things that went before and sometimes even plagiarises himself!
  • Memory from Cats sounds like Ravel's Bolero.
  • I Don't Know How To Love Him from Jesus Christ Superstar is an almost exact copy of a theme from Mendelssohn's violin concerto in E Minor.
  • The 6 note motif sung with "Jesus Christ Superstar" is the same as one from Richard Strauss's September.
  • Themes in The Music of the Night from The Phantom of the Opera sound similar to Puccini's La Fanciulla (for which ALW was sued by Puccini's estate and settled out of court)
  • The accompaniment to Don't Cry For Me Argentina is a version of JS Bach's Prelude in C.
 
Webber is a glorified plagiarist. His so called music rips off other things that went before and sometimes even plagiarises himself!
  • Memory from Cats sounds like Ravel's Bolero.
  • I Don't Know How To Love Him from Jesus Christ Superstar is an almost exact copy of a theme from Mendelssohn's violin concerto in E Minor.
  • The 6 note motif sung with "Jesus Christ Superstar" is the same as one from Richard Strauss's September.
  • Themes in The Music of the Night from The Phantom of the Opera sound similar to Puccini's La Fanciulla (for which ALW was sued by Puccini's estate and settled out of court)
  • The accompaniment to Don't Cry For Me Argentina is a version of JS Bach's Prelude in C.
That’s amazing. I had no idea. When I think of all the musicians today taking down YouTube channels because someone used their music🤦🏼‍♀️ Enjoy the fact that some cares because in a decade or two, yiu won’t be remembered.
 
That’s amazing. I had no idea. When I think of all the musicians today taking down YouTube channels because someone used their music🤦🏼‍♀️ Enjoy the fact that some cares because in a decade or two, yiu won’t be remembered.
In some ways, the blatant rip-off music may be the only way future generations get presented with good music to encourage them to dig deeper into the archives of music.
 
That’s amazing. I had no idea. When I think of all the musicians today taking down YouTube channels because someone used their music🤦🏼‍♀️ Enjoy the fact that some cares because in a decade or two, yiu won’t be remembered.
I play several instruments and once you start playing his work on the piano you hear it.

As for Beethoven I went to his supposed birth place in Bonn, granted over thirty years ago, but did seem like many places a nice building that the local council wanted to protect and named it after someone to do so. I'm trying to find a link, which I thought I'd saved, showing how his face changes through the years and doesn't seem like it's the same person at all.

Another curious composer is Lithuanian artist/composer - Mikalojus Konstantinas Čiurlionis, which at times reminds me of old science fiction movie art, yet he was supposed to be late 19th/early 20th century.
 
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I had never considered this idea beyond the Shakespeare fraud. It makes so much sense! Repeated to fix timelines and ascribe a whole cultures’ work to a single man. Beethoven, Shakespeare, Newton, Einstein. This template fits so many.
 
Webber is a glorified plagiarist. His so called music rips off other things that went before and sometimes even plagiarises himself!
  • Memory from Cats sounds like Ravel's Bolero.
  • I Don't Know How To Love Him from Jesus Christ Superstar is an almost exact copy of a theme from Mendelssohn's violin concerto in E Minor.
  • The 6 note motif sung with "Jesus Christ Superstar" is the same as one from Richard Strauss's September.
  • Themes in The Music of the Night from The Phantom of the Opera sound similar to Puccini's La Fanciulla (for which ALW was sued by Puccini's estate and settled out of court)
  • The accompaniment to Don't Cry For Me Argentina is a version of JS Bach's Prelude in C.

To add to the list, I just came across this 1992 quote from Roger Waters, when asked by Q magazine about the similarities between Pink Floyd's Echoes and the theme for The Phantom of the Opera:

It probably is actionable, but I think that life's too long [sic] to bother suing Andrew fucking Lloyd Webber.
 
Let's not all pull a Marcia Ramalho and claim that everybody in history was either a fraud or didn't exist.

Men back then were intellectual powerhouses. There are still people nowadays, albeit few, who can be as creative and productive.
 
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