El Forastero
Member
Obfuscation will not save you from accepting the natural laws around you.
Flat Earth
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The Natural Laws around us.... Diamagnetic Water, a Celestial Sphere, Physical Navigation of the Oceans.... These are all things that DAMN the "Flat" Earth theory.
And point to INTELLIGENT DESIGN.
Let's not forget the 2018 Circumnavigation of Antarctica in 72 days. You guys sit back, seethe, and scream "fraud" like you folks love to do.... Yet you won't go navigate the tropics yourself?
I forgot... I'm trying to bringforth a model that promotes intelligent design, to people who'd rather scream "I don't need a model" rather than learn how they got duped into believing a version of reality which is based upon the very thing used to deceive you in the first place..... Your eyes.
Let's not forget, literally the only "evidences" that the "Flat" earth actually have.... are eye and light oriented. You've never taken a physical measurement of earth... If you had, you'd of figured it all out by now.
Water is Diamagnetic. Any "Flat" Earther that literally humbles them self, and gets Flat, and Level with the Earth, will understand, why it's not so "Flat" after all.
Occam's Razor always applies lads. You should take a better look at old maps.
Facts. This is why you refuse to accept, as the majority of "Flat" Earthers do, that you live INSIDE of Earth. They literally just Inversed Reality.
Occam's Razor. Now would be a good time to start looking at old maps. (Unless you guys finally got a FE one that works)
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Surely you are aware that Anaximenes believed that earth was a flat disk beneath a dome . The stars were similar to nails stuck in a transparent shell .
You could have looked that up in Wiki. I don't know whether to laugh or cry .
A
Apollonius
Guest
If you're too ignorant to answer a question, please stop yelling at other people.
I've read this exchange between GandalfThe Green and others and truly don't understand what you are arguing about.
You say 'Water is diamagnetic,' I agree; so what? To what question would 'Water is diamagnetic' be a meaningful answer?
You say all actual measurements refute the flat earth theory. However there are thousands of examples of things being photographed at distances which mean they should be invisible behind the horizon if the Earth was a ball of approx 5500 miles diameter with a curvature of 8" per mile squared.
Please explain what the concave Earth theory looks like. I can't see any concave curvature. I'm willing to accept in principle that We might be living inside the Earth in some sense, how would I visualise that? I can easily visualise both the spinning ball and plane disc models.
I'd like to know more about the 2018 circumnavigation of Antarctica, especially to see the route.
You say 'Water is diamagnetic,' I agree; so what? To what question would 'Water is diamagnetic' be a meaningful answer?
You say all actual measurements refute the flat earth theory. However there are thousands of examples of things being photographed at distances which mean they should be invisible behind the horizon if the Earth was a ball of approx 5500 miles diameter with a curvature of 8" per mile squared.
Please explain what the concave Earth theory looks like. I can't see any concave curvature. I'm willing to accept in principle that We might be living inside the Earth in some sense, how would I visualise that? I can easily visualise both the spinning ball and plane disc models.
I'd like to know more about the 2018 circumnavigation of Antarctica, especially to see the route.
While no rules are being explicitly broken, this thread for the last few pages have been quite heated, with many logical fallacies on both sides ultimately reducing this conversation from a discussion to a “you’re wrong and stupid/no you’re wrong and stupid” slugfest, with some occasional good points thrown in.
Last time this occurred we temporarily locked the FE thread for some time in order to catch up on moderation or to let things cool off a bit before it spun even more out of control. So I kindly ask before further action is taken to remind everyone participating in this thread:
Treat others as you want to be treated
We are here to learn and grow, not accuse each other of not knowing “The Truth” which if you’ve been around here long enough, you know is a trap in and of itself
Criticize the points being made, and stand your ground if you feel it right to do so, but criticizing others is not tolerated.
I don’t care if you’re a brand new account, a long time poster, a patron, etc, that is not taken into account regarding removing offtopic or inappropriate posts.
Consider taking a break from this discussion and spend your time reading through the hundreds of other very interesting threads.
While I understand that FE is a very popular topic, the staff at SH are often conflicted as to whether or not it is worth it to have the discussion of it on our forum. This has nothing to do with the ideas of FE, but more so the amount of work that goes into moderating these discussions, which spin out of control far quicker than any other discussion on the site by a wide margin. Whether this is a concerted effort or merely because both sides are too stubborn to see the other side as having any merit, is hardly the point.
The reality is the behavior of those participating in this thread is what earns the ability to continue this discussion.
Consider this post as the staffs final attempt to intervene in a way that does not involve locking the thread or temporarily/permanently banning accounts.
Last time this occurred we temporarily locked the FE thread for some time in order to catch up on moderation or to let things cool off a bit before it spun even more out of control. So I kindly ask before further action is taken to remind everyone participating in this thread:
Treat others as you want to be treated
We are here to learn and grow, not accuse each other of not knowing “The Truth” which if you’ve been around here long enough, you know is a trap in and of itself
Criticize the points being made, and stand your ground if you feel it right to do so, but criticizing others is not tolerated.
I don’t care if you’re a brand new account, a long time poster, a patron, etc, that is not taken into account regarding removing offtopic or inappropriate posts.
Consider taking a break from this discussion and spend your time reading through the hundreds of other very interesting threads.
While I understand that FE is a very popular topic, the staff at SH are often conflicted as to whether or not it is worth it to have the discussion of it on our forum. This has nothing to do with the ideas of FE, but more so the amount of work that goes into moderating these discussions, which spin out of control far quicker than any other discussion on the site by a wide margin. Whether this is a concerted effort or merely because both sides are too stubborn to see the other side as having any merit, is hardly the point.
The reality is the behavior of those participating in this thread is what earns the ability to continue this discussion.
Consider this post as the staffs final attempt to intervene in a way that does not involve locking the thread or temporarily/permanently banning accounts.
Thanks - however I can't interpret what I'm seeing here, it looks like two routes superimposed.
No me neither but it is the route plot that got the skipper his Guineas book of records certificate.
So here's a historical perspective...
I was taught a very specific story about Christopher Columbus when I was at school. The story is that everyone believed the Earth was flat and along came Columbus who was determined to prove the earth was round by sailing all the way round and arriving in India. However no-one knew there was a whole extra continent in the way which no-one had heard of before. That's how Columbus discovered America and also the reason why the natives are called 'Indians,' because Columbus thought he had arrived in India.
Furthermore when Galileo proposed the Earth was round he was threatened with execution by the Medieval Catholic Church, and forced to recant his heresy.
These two stories have been part of popular culture for a long time, they have even featured in songs and so on.
However there appears to be a concerted attempt to re-write this history by saying that we have always believed the Earth was round since Hipparchus in 500BC. If you search flat earth on youtube, the top two results are from the Guardian and National Geographic, both boldly stating this completely new narrative. I've also seen clips of a game show hosted by Stephen Fry with a question how long have people believed the Earth was round and the answer given as 2500 years, which is a lot different to what I was taught at school.
I was taught that there was a brief period in the late classical Greek era when they believed the Earth was round but that both the Roman Empire and the Medieval Church believed the Earth was flat so humans have collectively believed in the flat Earth for much longer than the round Earth, which only came back in with Galileo just over 300 years ago.
I was taught a very specific story about Christopher Columbus when I was at school. The story is that everyone believed the Earth was flat and along came Columbus who was determined to prove the earth was round by sailing all the way round and arriving in India. However no-one knew there was a whole extra continent in the way which no-one had heard of before. That's how Columbus discovered America and also the reason why the natives are called 'Indians,' because Columbus thought he had arrived in India.
Furthermore when Galileo proposed the Earth was round he was threatened with execution by the Medieval Catholic Church, and forced to recant his heresy.
These two stories have been part of popular culture for a long time, they have even featured in songs and so on.
However there appears to be a concerted attempt to re-write this history by saying that we have always believed the Earth was round since Hipparchus in 500BC. If you search flat earth on youtube, the top two results are from the Guardian and National Geographic, both boldly stating this completely new narrative. I've also seen clips of a game show hosted by Stephen Fry with a question how long have people believed the Earth was round and the answer given as 2500 years, which is a lot different to what I was taught at school.
I was taught that there was a brief period in the late classical Greek era when they believed the Earth was round but that both the Roman Empire and the Medieval Church believed the Earth was flat so humans have collectively believed in the flat Earth for much longer than the round Earth, which only came back in with Galileo just over 300 years ago.
A
Apollonius
Guest
No, the ancients believed that we live inside the Earth.
Thank you. I watched it right through and it was quite a journey. There were two landmarks both islands on their journey and that was it. Ice wind snow very rough seas aplenty and surprisingly to me there was a helmsman stood out in the open through the entire journey.
Unlike Pen Hadows failure of a trip into Arctic waters in 2018 or 17 where he took the trip in a pair of ice strengthened yachts this Katharis II yacht is not ice strengthened which also surprised me.
Once out of sight of land the crew relied totally on electronic and mechanical devices to establish positions. At no point in the documentary did Antarctica appear but they were not concerned with finding Antarctica they were racing against the clock/calendar around it so perhaps it is a tad ingenuous to expect the so called continent to get a look in. With that said they did spend days in the lee of icebergs of varying sizes.
Not sure what to make of it quite honestly. One thing it does not do is provide a scrap of evidence that Antarctica the continent exists.
And cue....
I should have said - for most of recorded history people believed the Earth was flat.
I'm not sure what ancients you are referring to. The underworlds are part of many traditional belief systems but they operate concurrently with our physical presence on the surface of the earth - part of our soul or dreaming body is said to be trapped in the underworlds.
E
eitea
Guest
When it comes to seeing Earth's shape, first need to comprehend that it cannot be seen directly. What is seen is not matter, but pictures formed from info that is transferred with socalled light, via eyes and nervous system to some inner working that filters out stuff and then forms "sensible" picture. What is seen is not "outside" of human body, nor "inside" in common sense, but rather more inside than common "inside". And what "sees" that picture is rather that socalled inner eye.
Cannot see matter, nor even light itself. And so material-physical shape of Earth, whatever "Earth" is, cannot be measured by these "common" ways.
Nearly everyone tends to assume that light is "straight" and has some "speed". Wrong. Light is a field, similar to magnetic field, but with different qualities. And fields are instant, no traveling nor speed. And fields are toroidal and circular and other such not at all straight stuff about them. Field within it has qualities, directions or vectors and as such what can be sort of regarded as "straight", but they do not manifest material-physically as straight, and they are not material-physical themselves.
Light curves less than does Earth's general surface. And this curving of both causes so-to-say natural illusions, when viewed with eyes and under assumption that that is what actually is, that as if were convex or even straight. Also, as magnetic fields are affected by other fields or influences and so change their behavior, their spread and other qualities, so does light - which mekes determinig Earth's shape, eye based and modern immensely stupid understanding based, that much more confusing to find out how it all really is.
Convex is impossible, and flat is ridiculous and so obviously impossible. There is always some sort of center working, and stuff around it. Less suitable are forced to be around, are forced toward "outside", and so form heavier layers around lighter core. Though this "core" rather not in common sense of core, but one that has many possibilities about it, possibiblities that can get very "weird".
Human body has organs and stuff, which in turn have cells and stuff. Smaller whole ones making up bigger whole ones, which make up yet bigger ones, and so forth. In this sense there is sort of some "convex" world, but which is "outside", like on skin; but life-activity itself is always inside, meaning under skin. And if activity is on some outer surface, then need to consider bigger whole to which that skin level is like lowest level or something like.
There may even be immensely large "flat" areas. But those are only those areas.
Socalled gravity... that as determining shapes of worlds... Gets "weird" also, because socalled gravity does not need to have a "round" source.
Those who keep themselves stuck to modern understandings, base their opinions on them, will never come closer to finding out how it all actually is.
Everything modern is garbage. Everything. So if any of your opinions are based on modern understanding, then you are wrong. I suppose then could also say there are various degrees of wrong, and so some are less wrong than others. Need to become ever less wrong, and then there will be a "tipping point" after which more right than wrong.
Modern way is immensely severely limited, many essential and simple things cannot even be explained using modern languages, modern words and wordings. I've tried... not possible. Also thoughtforms that are straight and simple, but to put present them in worded form, would take thousands, and even then would not be accurate enough.
Need to look at thoughtforms and meanings directly, as they are, as "abstract" forms and such that you simply comprehend immediately as you see them. But not modern words and definitions. If you base your "thinking" on words and definitions, then you are not thinking. Words and definitions are only necessary when descibing into words that which is internally being looked at.
This material-physical world has material-physical ways of conveying intentions and such, then there is "thoughtform" world, and also next one "above" it, and so on. It gets rather varied and diverse. Thoughtforms can be described using words, stuff of above thoughtforms can be described using thoughtforms, but those above thoguhtforms cannot be described in words in any practically usable and acutally meaningful ways.
Also consider worlds that are so-to-say below material-physical, including in your own body.
"Truth is stranger than fiction" merely because modern imagination is immensely rotted and pathetic, because is stuck to modern languages-words and understanding.
Need to be honest to self, so to be able to be honest to others. Not honest to others, then not honest to self either. Cannot find truth if not honest.
Cannot see matter, nor even light itself. And so material-physical shape of Earth, whatever "Earth" is, cannot be measured by these "common" ways.
Nearly everyone tends to assume that light is "straight" and has some "speed". Wrong. Light is a field, similar to magnetic field, but with different qualities. And fields are instant, no traveling nor speed. And fields are toroidal and circular and other such not at all straight stuff about them. Field within it has qualities, directions or vectors and as such what can be sort of regarded as "straight", but they do not manifest material-physically as straight, and they are not material-physical themselves.
Light curves less than does Earth's general surface. And this curving of both causes so-to-say natural illusions, when viewed with eyes and under assumption that that is what actually is, that as if were convex or even straight. Also, as magnetic fields are affected by other fields or influences and so change their behavior, their spread and other qualities, so does light - which mekes determinig Earth's shape, eye based and modern immensely stupid understanding based, that much more confusing to find out how it all really is.
Convex is impossible, and flat is ridiculous and so obviously impossible. There is always some sort of center working, and stuff around it. Less suitable are forced to be around, are forced toward "outside", and so form heavier layers around lighter core. Though this "core" rather not in common sense of core, but one that has many possibilities about it, possibiblities that can get very "weird".
Human body has organs and stuff, which in turn have cells and stuff. Smaller whole ones making up bigger whole ones, which make up yet bigger ones, and so forth. In this sense there is sort of some "convex" world, but which is "outside", like on skin; but life-activity itself is always inside, meaning under skin. And if activity is on some outer surface, then need to consider bigger whole to which that skin level is like lowest level or something like.
There may even be immensely large "flat" areas. But those are only those areas.
Socalled gravity... that as determining shapes of worlds... Gets "weird" also, because socalled gravity does not need to have a "round" source.
Those who keep themselves stuck to modern understandings, base their opinions on them, will never come closer to finding out how it all actually is.
Everything modern is garbage. Everything. So if any of your opinions are based on modern understanding, then you are wrong. I suppose then could also say there are various degrees of wrong, and so some are less wrong than others. Need to become ever less wrong, and then there will be a "tipping point" after which more right than wrong.
Modern way is immensely severely limited, many essential and simple things cannot even be explained using modern languages, modern words and wordings. I've tried... not possible. Also thoughtforms that are straight and simple, but to put present them in worded form, would take thousands, and even then would not be accurate enough.
Need to look at thoughtforms and meanings directly, as they are, as "abstract" forms and such that you simply comprehend immediately as you see them. But not modern words and definitions. If you base your "thinking" on words and definitions, then you are not thinking. Words and definitions are only necessary when descibing into words that which is internally being looked at.
This material-physical world has material-physical ways of conveying intentions and such, then there is "thoughtform" world, and also next one "above" it, and so on. It gets rather varied and diverse. Thoughtforms can be described using words, stuff of above thoughtforms can be described using thoughtforms, but those above thoguhtforms cannot be described in words in any practically usable and acutally meaningful ways.
Also consider worlds that are so-to-say below material-physical, including in your own body.
"Truth is stranger than fiction" merely because modern imagination is immensely rotted and pathetic, because is stuck to modern languages-words and understanding.
Need to be honest to self, so to be able to be honest to others. Not honest to others, then not honest to self either. Cannot find truth if not honest.
Yeah I wanted to say that I had barely seen Antarctica, but hadn't watched it in enough detail yet to commit to that statement.
Does the surface of large bodies of still water ever become convex or concave in your world?
Thanks
A
Apollonius
Guest
They are shown setting off from Capetown and arriving in Hobart. Other than that the only land in that video is two islands both snow/ice covered whose names escape me. One has a needle stack of rock just off its coast, literally just off its coast they called a monolith. Found it on wikiwaki
The Monolith (Antarctica) - Wikipedia
