Ireland as an example of old-world governance

[matematik]

What about Spanish security forces in the Basque country, or Russian security forces in Chechnya? You got songs about that too or do you just hate "the English"? The world is a lot more complicated than "it's the English what done it".

 

[Oracle]

What about Spanish security forces in the Basque country, you got a song about that too or do you just hate "the English"? The world is a lot more complicated than "it's the English what done it".

My goodness,where did you get the impression I hate the english?!
Half my family are english haha.
I just shared a beautiful song on the theme of the thread.
Interested to read your thread on the Basque country if you share the link.

 

[matematik]

What about Spanish security forces in the Basque country, you got a song about that too or do you just hate "the English"? The world is a lot more complicated than "it's the English what done it".

My goodness,where did you get the impression I hate the english?!
Half my family are english haha.
I just shared a beautiful song on the theme of the thread.
Interested to read your thread on the Basque country if you share the link.

I find it irritating how there is this idea that the Irish have suffered uniquely at the hands the brutal "English" (which was actually the Normans any way), when in reality there's plenty of parallels all over the world that get no attention what so ever, and also this idea that the English should be uniquely apologetic for their history, when I don't see people in any other country apologising for their colonial history.

The English have become something of an easy target I think, a scapegoat for the ills of the world, mainly because we don't generally challenge that.

 

[GaelicWestIndian]

Why has Ireland so few trees?

Possibly the Great Frost disaster in the early 1740s killed many of the trees...

 

[feralimal]

The English have become something of an easy target I think, a scapegoat for the ills of the world, mainly because we don't generally challenge that.

"English" is a concept. Countries are a concept. It is an idea that you have been taught to accept and feel defensive about.

I don't feel that way - we are all individuals. To buy into the idea of England, the Queen and all that, is just to buy into the English cult. Or Irish cult, for the craic. Nothing to feel proud or embarrassed of. These geographical areas are really just administrative regions. No need to be defined by someone else's cult once you can reason for yourself.

Those that have run England though, have certainly impacted other countries. With Darwin, the Huxleys, HG Wells, City of London, etc, etc, we can see many examples of how England's rulers have impacted the wider world. Here are a couple of great shows that touch on the overall hidden geopolitical nature of this reality, where we can see in their own words (in books) how this occurred in recent years - you will be surprised how much 'England' figures in that:

https://jaysanalysis.com/2020/12/16...ism-the-vatican-klaus-richard-grove-jay-dyer/
https://jaysanalysis.com/2021/01/06...ien-disclosure-part-2-jay-dyer-richard-grove/

 

[Oracle]

The English have become something of an easy target I think, a scapegoat for the ills of the world, mainly because we don't generally challenge that.

"English" is a concept. Countries are a concept. It is an idea that you have been taught to accept and feel defensive about.

I don't feel that way - we are all individuals. To buy into the idea of England, the Queen and all that, is just to buy into the English cult. Or Irish cult, for the craic. Nothing to feel proud or embarrassed of. These geographical areas are really just administrative regions. No need to be defined by someone else's cult once you can reason for yourself.

Those that have run England though, have certainly impacted other countries. With Darwin, the Huxleys, HG Wells, City of London, etc, etc, we can see many examples of how England's rulers have impacted the wider world. Here are a couple of great shows that touch on the overall hidden geopolitical nature of this reality, where we can see in their own words (in books) how this occurred in recent years - you will be surprised how much 'England' figures in that:

https://jaysanalysis.com/2020/12/16...ism-the-vatican-klaus-richard-grove-jay-dyer/
https://jaysanalysis.com/2021/01/06...ien-disclosure-part-2-jay-dyer-richard-grove/

This is a recurring theme with this user I've noticed right across the board.
Often totally inappropriate and off topic.I sometimes wondered was it a deliberate thread killing/sliding tactic of a cointel troll but he's posted some good material elsewhere so probably just misplaced over enthusiastic nationalism. Good call mate and thanks for the links.

 

[matematik]

The English have become something of an easy target I think, a scapegoat for the ills of the world, mainly because we don't generally challenge that.

"English" is a concept. Countries are a concept. It is an idea that you have been taught to accept and feel defensive about.

I don't feel that way - we are all individuals. To buy into the idea of England, the Queen and all that, is just to buy into the English cult. Or Irish cult, for the craic. Nothing to feel proud or embarrassed of. These geographical areas are really just administrative regions. No need to be defined by someone else's cult once you can reason for yourself.

Those that have run England though, have certainly impacted other countries. With Darwin, the Huxleys, HG Wells, City of London, etc, etc, we can see many examples of how England's rulers have impacted the wider world. Here are a couple of great shows that touch on the overall hidden geopolitical nature of this reality, where we can see in their own words (in books) how this occurred in recent years - you will be surprised how much 'England' figures in that:

https://jaysanalysis.com/2020/12/16...ism-the-vatican-klaus-richard-grove-jay-dyer/
https://jaysanalysis.com/2021/01/06...ien-disclosure-part-2-jay-dyer-richard-grove/

This is a recurring theme with this user I've noticed right across the board.
Often totally inappropriate and off topic.I sometimes wondered was it a deliberate thread killing/sliding tactic of a cointel troll but he's posted some good material elsewhere so probably just misplaced over enthusiastic nationalism. Good call mate and thanks for the links.

I find it ironic how you say my nationalism is "inappropriate" when you are the user who literally posted an Irish sectarian song, and we all know what Irish sectarianism leads to. Then again funding the IRA was popular in the US so I suppose you think they are wholesome, salt of the earth "freedom fighters". I really don't see what is appropriate about that sort of thing on a forum that is supposed to be about discussing history, not modern tribal politics and conflicts.

I find it odd how there seems to be this mentality that everyone elses' nationalism is fine and to be encouraged, but English nationalism is bad and oppressive and must be stamped out. I suppose it's not surprising though, as I said England is the most common scapegoat for the ills of the world, even most native English people despise their own country and history.

The English have become something of an easy target I think, a scapegoat for the ills of the world, mainly because we don't generally challenge that.

"English" is a concept. Countries are a concept. It is an idea that you have been taught to accept and feel defensive about.

I don't feel that way - we are all individuals. To buy into the idea of England, the Queen and all that, is just to buy into the English cult. Or Irish cult, for the craic. Nothing to feel proud or embarrassed of. These geographical areas are really just administrative regions. No need to be defined by someone else's cult once you can reason for yourself.

Those that have run England though, have certainly impacted other countries. With Darwin, the Huxleys, HG Wells, City of London, etc, etc, we can see many examples of how England's rulers have impacted the wider world. Here are a couple of great shows that touch on the overall hidden geopolitical nature of this reality, where we can see in their own words (in books) how this occurred in recent years - you will be surprised how much 'England' figures in that:

https://jaysanalysis.com/2020/12/16...ism-the-vatican-klaus-richard-grove-jay-dyer/
https://jaysanalysis.com/2021/01/06...ien-disclosure-part-2-jay-dyer-richard-grove/

So it's ok for Oracle to post an Irish sectarian song, but not for me to respond to that? Give over. You may hate your own country but I don't and you will find that most people around the world don't regardless of the history of their elites.

 

[feralimal]

What does it mean to 'love your country'? What exactly are you loving? The history, the area, the culture you born into, the tax, its rules, the governance structure? It seems like a misplaced feeling. Can your country love you back?

As far as I can tell, its an idea, taught to people to better collectivise and administer them. If you are taught to love your rulers and their ideas, you can then put their intentions in your heart, and do their bidding without even being asked, or realising that you are a slave.

You are not a citizen of a country. You are an autonomous individual.

 

[trismegistus]

I find it ironic how you say my nationalism is "inappropriate" when you are the user who literally posted an Irish sectarian song, and we all know what Irish sectarianism leads to. Then again funding the IRA was popular in the US so I suppose you think they are wholesome, salt of the earth "freedom fighters". I really don't see what is appropriate about that sort of thing on a forum that is supposed to be about discussing history, not modern tribal politics and conflicts.

From an anthropological perspective, sharing that song is relevant content to the thread. I don't see any evidence that Oracle tacitly supports or promotes any further ideas related to Irish political parties. However, admittedly I cannot speak for Oracle so I am only seeing what I observe as a mod.

However, at the risk of spinning this thread out into complete offtopic territory I would recommend that any user who still has concerns over the content of another poster in this thread creates a report or to take it off this thread in general.

Please keep subsequent posts relevant to the OP, or thread may be locked or comments removed.

 

[matematik]

What does it mean to 'love your country'? What exactly are you loving? The history, the area, the culture you born into, the tax, its rules, the governance structure? It seems like a misplaced feeling. Can your country love you back?

As far as I can tell, its an idea, taught to people to better collectivise and administer them. If you are taught to love your rulers and their ideas, you can then put their intentions in your heart, and do their bidding without even being asked, or realising that you are a slave.

You are not a citizen of a country. You are an autonomous individual.

This whole concept of this thread is a celebration of Ireland though, and therefore presumably a love for the country/culture. Do you take issue with that? I think your apparent disdain for patriotism/love of ones country is a very British liberal mentality.

I think it's perfectly possible to love ones country and want to defend its traditions and identity without supporting the government/elites, in fact very often British nationalism is directly at odds with the government especially these days in a climate where any expression of nationalism is labelled as "racist" and "hate speech". I would also comment that most of the British elites are not even English, they are largely of Norman and other foreign descent.

Your implication that the sum of English culture is the City of London and the royal family, and therefore suggesting that English people should be ashamed of their nationality because of that is ridiculous. That's like saying Italians should be ashamed of their nationality and heritage because of the Vatican.

 

[Knowncitizen]

I'm Irish and I'm proud of my Celtic heritage but as for what is going on with Ireland, that's an ever changing landscape. Ireland has been raped and pillaged for centuries by the people in power and not the average man. I have no hatred toward the English for what happened in the past , that is almost as silly as the current black people trying to make me feel guilty for white mans crimes hundreds of years ago.

 

[feralimal]

What does it mean to 'love your country'? What exactly are you loving? The history, the area, the culture you born into, the tax, its rules, the governance structure? It seems like a misplaced feeling. Can your country love you back?

As far as I can tell, its an idea, taught to people to better collectivise and administer them. If you are taught to love your rulers and their ideas, you can then put their intentions in your heart, and do their bidding without even being asked, or realising that you are a slave.

You are not a citizen of a country. You are an autonomous individual.

This whole concept of this thread is a celebration of Ireland though, and therefore presumably a love for the country/culture. Do you take issue with that? I think your apparent disdain for patriotism/love of ones country is a very British liberal mentality.

I think it's perfectly possible to love ones country and want to defend its traditions and identity without supporting the government/elites, in fact very often British nationalism is directly at odds with the government especially these days in a climate where any expression of nationalism is labelled as "racist" and "hate speech". I would also comment that most of the British elites are not even English, they are largely of Norman and other foreign descent.

Your implication that the sum of English culture is the City of London and the royal family, and therefore suggesting that English people should be ashamed of their nationality because of that is ridiculous. That's like saying Italians should be ashamed of their nationality and heritage because of the Vatican.

I think loving your country is a ridiculous notion, whether its the UK, Ireland, the US or anything. "I love those people who administer me, and tell me what I can and can't do!". Ridiculous! That a circumstance of birth should confer some sense of superiority over others is ridiculous in itself, but you are feeling proud of what exactly? The way the government is structured? The countries your country's government beat in previous wars? How your government spends the taxes it extracts from the hostage population by use of force? The laws it has?

I've no problem with people having customs - I think that's great. Enjoy special food, songs, dances, idiosyncratic speech, whatever - that's all great. I love seeing different cultures. Those customs are nothing to do with the country though or being a citizen of a country.

Discussion of culture in intentionally conflated with government and country. They are not the same thing.

The government will promote cultural ideas only in so far as they help achieve its aims of greater control. So they are useful as a divide and conquer strategy. But don't be confused = as soon as possible the government will sell you down the river - creating burdensome restrictions for local companies and business, turning town centers into cultural dead ends full of corporate entities such as McDonalds and Starbucks, etc. Surely I'm not saying anything surprising here, am I? Surely we have all seen that cultural variations in our countries have decreased over time, that places are more similar with less local customs? Do you think the current crisis will decrease or accelerate that trend?

The reality is that there are only individual people. The ideas they hold - such as in the validity of government, of 'country', of 'us' - create or manifest the reality we experience. Local customs are an expression of personality - no problem. But if you want to hold to the notions on country that were provided to you, and that you were educated into believing and even loving, you are part of the problem. If you do, you are embracing your slavery and the collectivisation of all us all. And you will accept violence on others in the name of the greater good (king and country) when you inflict your received opinions about country on others who don't agree that any statist apparatus is morally acceptable.

 

[Jd755]

There never was old world governance.
Anarchy prevailed. It still does but people seem to gain a comfort in pretending otherwise
Ireland or Hibernia or whatever else the island has been named is just a construct of the mind in the same way governance is.

 

[matematik]

There never was old world governance.
Anarchy prevailed. It still does but people seem to gain a comfort in pretending otherwise
Ireland or Hibernia or whatever else the island has been named is just a construct of the mind in the same way governance is.

Some countries/people are very attached to this notion of an unbroken historical lineage, it often seems to me that the term "Celtic" is used very loosely to refer to anything not "English". I've even heard the term "Romano-Celtic" used a lot as if the Romans and Celts were basically one and the same as opposed to the "English".

 

[Knowncitizen]

There never was old world governance.
Anarchy prevailed. It still does but people seem to gain a comfort in pretending otherwise
Ireland or Hibernia or whatever else the island has been named is just a construct of the mind in the same way governance is.

Some countries/people are very attached to this notion of an unbroken historical lineage, it often seems to me that the term "Celtic" is used very loosely to refer to anything not "English". I've even heard the term "Romano-Celtic" used a lot as if the Romans and Celts were basically one and the same as opposed to the "English".

This thread has veered off into your defense of the English for some reason. I'm puzzled? Why defend the English if countries don't matter? Do you personally know any of the people involved in the history of Ireland?

 

[matematik]

There never was old world governance.
Anarchy prevailed. It still does but people seem to gain a comfort in pretending otherwise
Ireland or Hibernia or whatever else the island has been named is just a construct of the mind in the same way governance is.

Some countries/people are very attached to this notion of an unbroken historical lineage, it often seems to me that the term "Celtic" is used very loosely to refer to anything not "English". I've even heard the term "Romano-Celtic" used a lot as if the Romans and Celts were basically one and the same as opposed to the "English".

This thread has veered off into your defense of the English for some reason. I'm puzzled? Why defend the English if countries don't matter? Do you personally know any of the people involved in the history of Ireland?

I wasn't specifically criticising Ireland or its history actually, just saying that often I think the term "Celtic" is used very loosely and sometimes seems quite political, and this is probably the case in Britain even more so than Ireland. I was agreeing with kd-755's sentiment that peoples' modern idea of nations and a linear historical narrative from the past to the present day is an artificial construct that many seem to take comfort in.

This doesn't only happen with "Celtic" either, in Greece there's a strong tendency to want to portray a completely linear transition from Ancient Greece to modern Greece, as if today's Greeks are their direct descendants, same with the "Han Chinese" in China and their 5,000 year history or what ever it is.

What does it mean to 'love your country'? What exactly are you loving? The history, the area, the culture you born into, the tax, its rules, the governance structure? It seems like a misplaced feeling. Can your country love you back?

As far as I can tell, its an idea, taught to people to better collectivise and administer them. If you are taught to love your rulers and their ideas, you can then put their intentions in your heart, and do their bidding without even being asked, or realising that you are a slave.

You are not a citizen of a country. You are an autonomous individual.

This whole concept of this thread is a celebration of Ireland though, and therefore presumably a love for the country/culture. Do you take issue with that? I think your apparent disdain for patriotism/love of ones country is a very British liberal mentality.

I think it's perfectly possible to love ones country and want to defend its traditions and identity without supporting the government/elites, in fact very often British nationalism is directly at odds with the government especially these days in a climate where any expression of nationalism is labelled as "racist" and "hate speech". I would also comment that most of the British elites are not even English, they are largely of Norman and other foreign descent.

Your implication that the sum of English culture is the City of London and the royal family, and therefore suggesting that English people should be ashamed of their nationality because of that is ridiculous. That's like saying Italians should be ashamed of their nationality and heritage because of the Vatican.

I think loving your country is a ridiculous notion, whether its the UK, Ireland, the US or anything. "I love those people who administer me, and tell me what I can and can't do!". Ridiculous! That a circumstance of birth should confer some sense of superiority over others is ridiculous in itself, but you are feeling proud of what exactly? The way the government is structured? The countries your country's government beat in previous wars? How your government spends the taxes it extracts from the hostage population by use of force? The laws it has?

I've no problem with people having customs - I think that's great. Enjoy special food, songs, dances, idiosyncratic speech, whatever - that's all great. I love seeing different cultures. Those customs are nothing to do with the country though or being a citizen of a country.

Discussion of culture in intentionally conflated with government and country. They are not the same thing.

The government will promote cultural ideas only in so far as they help achieve its aims of greater control. So they are useful as a divide and conquer strategy. But don't be confused = as soon as possible the government will sell you down the river - creating burdensome restrictions for local companies and business, turning town centers into cultural dead ends full of corporate entities such as McDonalds and Starbucks, etc. Surely I'm not saying anything surprising here, am I? Surely we have all seen that cultural variations in our countries have decreased over time, that places are more similar with less local customs? Do you think the current crisis will decrease or accelerate that trend?

The reality is that there are only individual people. The ideas they hold - such as in the validity of government, of 'country', of 'us' - create or manifest the reality we experience. Local customs are an expression of personality - no problem. But if you want to hold to the notions on country that were provided to you, and that you were educated into believing and even loving, you are part of the problem. If you do, you are embracing your slavery and the collectivisation of all us all. And you will accept violence on others in the name of the greater good (king and country) when you inflict your received opinions about country on others who don't agree that any statist apparatus is morally acceptable.

You're the one conflating country/culture with government and big corporations. In my experience patriotic people are usually among the most anti-government and anti-corporation, especially in England where patriotism has long been considered taboo and tantamount to "racism". Your claim that English patriotism means supporting the City of London and the royal family is just not true, if anything patriotic people are by far the most likely to criticise those institutions as foreign impositions and completely detrimental to the interests native English people (let me guess you don't think there's any such thing as "native" English people?).

In the UK big corporations are among the biggest enemies of English people, most of them openly support elite, globalist agendas like BLM and mass immigration. Many of them openly pledge to specifically give preference to non-whites for employment just because they're non-white, essentially saying they want to disenfranchise native English people in their own country.

Culture and nation are intrinsically linked, you can't have one without the other, and I mean "nation" in terms of a specific ethnic/cultural group, not a modern state/governmental construct. You seem to be advocating for some sort of borderless world with no concept of race and nationality, but do you really think different cultures and traditions would survive in such an environment? That borderless NWO with one globalist culture is the aim of the globalists, the likes of the City of London and the Royals. They care nothing for English patriotism, in fact they see it as something that needs to be stamped out.

 

[FAELAGUM]

There never was old world governance.
Anarchy prevailed. It still does but people seem to gain a comfort in pretending otherwise
Ireland or Hibernia or whatever else the island has been named is just a construct of the mind in the same way governance is.

I wholeheartedly disagree with your claim 'Anarchy prevailed'.

Nature follows an order. The river has it's motion set and flows accordingly. This is not anarchy, but order. And us humans mimic nature.
Anarchy is what we see now. Where you have AFA, BLM and other lawless "anarchy" cells acting inorganically to what nature is supposed to be namely what we have now in cities, roaming, looting and obstructing law and order.

Now, elements of free will in nature ought not to be defined as anarchy since their is law free will cannot defy, and defying such law causes friction between forces, and sometimes the friction becomes so violent one has to be eliminated if not the forces involved do not apply peace, stillness and calmness to their encounter, meeting and so forth.

Don't fight. Just sit, relax and do nothing. Enjoy the weather!
If you are hungry, go hunt some salmons like the bears do. Now that is violence because you as a human can eat blueberries instead which a bear cannot because the bear has claws and cannot pick blueberries.

 

[Jd755]

I neither seek nor expect agreement with anything I post.
Anarchy can be defined as anything just like every other word in any language can be. To me it simply means without government.
Of course this simplicity gets immediately conflated into without law, more specifically without the law but what those who say such things really mean without the legal.

In the context of the op premise of Ireland being an example of governance of the old world the one before the catastrophe or the demolition or replacement of the old world it can be construed many ways, it is still falling into the idea that there has to be governance. I see nothing in my readings of history of these so called British Isles that reveals anything but governance of some description or other at least in the documented and pictorial sources and it could be argued in the architectural sources but it is impossible to derive truths from fictions. Governance is a fiction. Law of Nature is a fiction.
However, whoever, whatever is running this thing I was taught to call life doesn't appear to confide in me what is going on. Objective reality observation reveals life here is reliant on death. Unless we can get a handle on what death may be or is then we live a life confined by other peoples imaginary fears.

Apologies dreamtime if I have wandered to far. Please delete if you feel it appropriate.

EDIT to correct a couple of typos

 

[matematik]

I neither seek nor expect agreement with anything I post.

I take it this is in reference to me saying I agreed with the sentiment of your post. I didn't think I needed a posters' permission to say I agree with their post, surely that's my decision?

 

[Jd755]

Some countries/people are very attached to this notion of an unbroken historical lineage, it often seems to me that the term "Celtic" is used very loosely to refer to anything not "English". I've even heard the term "Romano-Celtic" used a lot as if the Romans and Celts were basically one and the same as opposed to the "English".

I've read on numerous occasions the Celts or more accurately the term Celts was invented in Victorian times used in the same way as Roman us ie by the Jesuit Church to paint its pictures over things its people decided were 'too ugly' for their tastes. No way to prove it either way of course but thought it worth the mention.

I neither seek nor expect agreement with anything I post.

I take it this is in reference to me saying I agreed with the sentiment of your post. I didn't think I needed a posters' permission to say I agree with their post, surely that's my decision?

Dear god.
This is what I was referring to!

I wholeheartedly disagree with your claim 'Anarchy prevailed'.