SH Archive Reich and Empire: the origins and true meaning

[Archive]

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Username: Paracelsus
Date: 2018-12-16 19:17:42
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@Paracelsus

Thank you very much, my friend. And don't fool yourself into thinking that your typical German speaker here in Austria or Germany has any clue about the meanings of words. Sincerely, I wish - the quality of conversations to be had over here would increase drastically!

My "favorite" is definitely the "valley girl" when it comes to US accents, especially when uttered by an effeminate male! I had ample exposure to that when I spent some weeks, incidentally during your highly entertaining 2016 elections, in Los Angeles. Hahaha...

And I agree in part with what you said regarding the injection of Latin into the European languages, but have to add that A) I've come to the opinion that Latin (same as Greek and Hebrew) was an artificially created language, devised by and for a controlling intellectual/sociopolitical elite and that B) this comes all down to the concept of "citizen" versus "pagan" or "heathen". So yes, latin for the unwashed masses, so that they too may speak like the "civilized folk" as you say, Paracelsus. "Civis" is the citizen of the Roman Empire, the refined and civilized city-dweller, a full human, and in contrast the non-citizen as the profane, dirty countrydweller, the villager and peasant, called "paganus" in Latin. I think this all has to be seen in the context of the "Holy Roman Empire" or the "Roman Church/Vatican", and the language and other reforms played out merely around 500 years ago. The religious connotations on such terms as "pagan" have been added on as a later obscuring layer, to hide the truth of the matter of a legalistic, sociocultural seizure of power all over Europe, carried out by a the Roman Church and her imperialists. My two cents! No such thing as Ancient Romans by my book!

Post automatically merged: 12/16/18

Hilarious! Sadly, the bastards blocked the video for my country. Bloody Austrophobes!

I'm gonna sneak this tangent in real quick. It is a personal dream to thrown on a bespoke tuxedo and clap along to the New Year's Eve performance of The Radetzky March in Wien.

No mere provencial, or Provençal/Provence would aspire to that!

 

[Sylvanus777]

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Username: Silvanus777
Date: 2018-12-16 19:46:18
Reaction Score: 1

Who is that creepy guy? Fred Phelps...



...or Skeletor?

No seriously, you should come over and we should just sneak in there. But we'd have to come with top hats and fake monocles and way in advance grow and groom beards like the Kaiser back in '14! We'll just claim to be the long lost, last Habsburgs.

 

[Archive]

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Username: Paracelsus
Date: 2018-12-17 00:23:21
Reaction Score: 2

Well, I say, a gentleman does not "sneak" into the Wiener Konzerthaus. You must arrive with élan and distinction.

 

[Archive]

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Username: welkyn
Date: 2019-01-13 19:36:02
Reaction Score: 3

I think "reich" has the same meaning in this context as English "reach". There were a lot of rulers in the old days whose names would be "Alaric", "Alfric", "Beohrtric", "Ealdric" and so on - all of these names have something to do with the "reach" of the ruler (and indeed, the old pronunciation of this sound would be "reech", either tʃ or x).

The ruler was the one whose "reach" extended so far - thus, "Alaric" was probably a ruler of a wide area ("all-reach"), "Beohrtric" might have had a particularly magnanimous reign ("bright-reach"), "Ealdric" might rule the old country ("old-reach"), "Theodoric" ruled over the people ("people/tribe-reach") and so on. Some people think "ric" might even be a title, and that none of these are given names, but epithets applied to rulers upon their accession to the throne. Thus, it performs the same function as Latin "rex", which, conveniently, is translated into modern English as "King".

So, I think that "reich" means just that - "reach", meaning the extent of land that was ruled over by someone. Either that, or the word "reach" has evolved from originally meaning "that extent of land over which someone rules". Osterreich is thus the "East-Reach", Frankreich is thus the "Frank-reach". In Irish, the related term is "Rige", meaning "Kingdom" - the Irish for "King" is "Ri", so it all works out in the end

 

[Archive]

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Username: Deleted_x7
Date: 2019-01-13 20:42:36
Reaction Score: 1

So, I think that "reich" means just that - "reach", meaning the extent of land that was ruled over by someone.

seems plausible.. first thing that came to my mind about it was 'right/rite', like the scottish rite. perhaps its related to "The divine right of kings"

 

[Archive]

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Username: freezetime26
Date: 2019-01-13 22:00:59
Reaction Score: 0

Nobody is gonna talk about the Great Britain flag at 0:45? I couldnt find it anywhere! unless thats another country.

 

[dreamtime]

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Username: dreamtime
Date: 2019-05-05 10:59:08
Reaction Score: 5

I'm starting to think there's some secret in the German history, when it comes to the time period between 1500 and 1800.

Was the conflicts that lead to the first world war related to invisible forces dividing the germans? How big was the german territory in 1600, and were people somehow politically united in the german-speaking areas? How old was the German Empire really?

How close together were the Habsburgs, and the Holy Roman emperors? Did someone tried to prevent germans from staying in unity, which ultimately resulted in all the splits we see in the 19th Century?

Which role did Austria-Hungary play? What was the true role of the German Confederation after the Congress of Vienna 1815 and what did really happen in the Napoleonic wars that led to them? Where did the idea of Pan-Germanism come from? Are the two world wars the last parts of a century long effort to exterminate the German Empire? Did the Germans really invade the slawic countries in the east in the times of colonialism, or was it the opposite? Did the German Empire once bordered the slawic empire of Tartaria?+

Why did Pan-Germanism only start during/after the Napoleonic Wars? Were the Napoleonic wars used to destroy the century old peace among the kindgoms of Central Europe? Is it possible that there was unity among the people without the need for a central governance?

Pan-Germanism's origins began with the birth of Romantic nationalism during the Napoleonic Wars, with Friedrich Ludwig Jahn and Ernst Moritz Arndt being early proponents. Germans, for the most part, had been a loose and disunited people since the Reformation, when the Holy Roman Empire was shattered into a patchwork of states following the end of the Thirty Years' War with the Peace of Westphalia.

Pan-Germanism was widespread among the revolutionaries of 1848, notably among Richard Wagner and the Brothers Grimm

Writers such as Friedrich List and Paul Anton Lagarde argued for German hegemony in Central and Eastern Europe, where German domination in some areas had begun as early as the 9th century AD with the Ostsiedlung, Germanic expansion into Slavic and Baltic lands. For the Pan-Germanists, this movement was seen as a Drang nach Osten, in which Germans would be naturally inclined to seek Lebensraum by moving eastwards to reunite with the German minorities there.

The Deutschlandlied ("Song of Germany"), written in 1841 by Hoffmann von Fallersleben, in its first stanza defines Deutschland as reaching "From the Meuse to the Memel / From the Adige to the Belt", i.e. as including East Prussia and South Tyrol.

Reflecting upon the First Schleswig War in 1848, Karl Marx noted in 1853 that "by quarrelling amongst themselves, instead of confederating, Germans and Scandinavians, both of them belonging to the same great race, only prepare the way for their hereditary enemy, the Slav."[7]

Germany is the totality of all German-feeling, German-thinking, German-willing Germans: In this sense, every one of us is a traitor if he does not consider himself personally acountable in every moment of his life for the existence, fortune and future of the fatherland, and each is a hero and liberator if he does. - Paul de Lagarde

The revolutions, which stressed pan-Germanism, demonstrated popular discontent with the traditional, largely autocratic political structure of the thirty-nine independent states of the Confederation that inherited the German territory of the former Holy Roman Empire. - German revolutions of 1848–49 - Wikipedia

I suggest whatever political structures existed before Napoleon was actually in practice a unified and greater Germany, and everything happeneing after 1815 was actually the result of Napoleon destroying the unity, and nationalists trying to re-establish the old way of life of the German Kingdom.

"This body which called itself and which still calls itself the Holy Roman Empire was in no way holy, nor Roman, nor an empire." - Voiltaire, 1756