Star Forts - A correction on my part

[xandermcargyle]

I think the value of a Stolen History post lies more in its ability to make you question what you think you know, rather than offer a complete, alternative narrative to believe in. Often a conspiracy theory will offer more justification than what we’re told is the truth. So I can see the temptation of just hopping into a new belief... and the disappointment that can be felt when it turns out to be on weaker grounds than it first seemed.

Personally, I’ll read a post, entertain it, let it sit, then retain just a small piece that feels notable.

That said, I agree that the Tartaria conspiracy has fizzled out in its current form. I think too many were happy to weave a story around the many mysteries it’s built upon, rather than dig deeper into the key ones.

 

[Deleted member 37]

The impetus for the original theory of Tartaria seemingly pops up out of nowhere and is the furthest thing from organic. There is no plausible explanation for the thought process that produces the theory, where in reading central asian history would a person come up with that idea?

It didn't pop out of nothing. It was implanted upon the research done by Fomenko, whether correct or not. THE CHRONOLOGY OF RUSSIAN HISTORY. History: fiction or science? Volume 4

 

[chocochip]

It didn't pop out of nothing. It was implanted upon the research done by Fomenko, whether correct or not. THE CHRONOLOGY OF RUSSIAN HISTORY. History: fiction or science? Volume 4

I don't think that's fair. Fomenko argues that the Mongol horde is really the Russian horde, not that Tartaria is an ancient empire that had advanced technology (if I'm wrong, feel free to correct me). SH clearly borrows heavily from Fomenko, but SH has an entirely distinct belief system. Russian exceptionalism, which is prominent with Fomenko, is basically absent from Stolen History. That's why I say Tartaria comes basically out of nowhere. Yes, Fomenko talks about the Mongols really being Russians, but he never claims anything about an technologically advanced empire being wiped from history, mudflood and all. That specific claim basically shows up out of nowhere somewhere around 2017, with the mudflood portion (I think) showing up around 2014.

 

[trismegistus]

Keep in mind this discussion is meant to discuss STAR FORTS and concepts related to that. We have other threads that discuss Tartaria to various degrees, please utilize those for further conversations.

 

[luchin001]

We have been subtly deceived before and this has served to change our history but there are stellar and strong constructions in Portugal, Russia and the Netherlands that seem more like the base of something that was on them, as if we only see the supports and the technology or what that was there was withdrawn, not all of us have the military training of the author of the thread but this site is made to question the religious and military antiquities that present us as definitive, I think that nobody is the owner of the truth

 

[MgvdT]

Stuff can be two things

 

[Blackdiamond]

Do you have any idea why did they not use the starforts in world war 1? why bother digging ditches when natural ditches was all over western europe were the battle took place?

 

[Citezenship]

Do you have any idea why did they not use the starforts in world war 1? why bother digging ditches when natural ditches was all over western europe were the battle took place?

They did, kind of.


View: https://youtu.be/k8qYDNao7VU

 

[Blackdiamond]

They did, kind of.


View: https://youtu.be/k8qYDNao7VU

Thank you, that made me even more confused. Forts bad, ditch good? I get your point though but still.

 

[Citezenship]

Thank you, that made me even more confused. Forts bad, ditch good? I get your point though but still.

Yes i think it was an improvisation of the topography and the fort was in the way and offered some advantages so was taken as such.

 

[Nick]

Why build more forts with the advent of mortars? Well, mortars can do damage, but not to troops in earthen bunkers. Casemates that shatter under mortar fire have earthen backing, so they are still effective after an attack.

No country spared any money on war and defense. Forts were made first when stepping foot in a conquered land. The Spanish, English, French and Portuguese built hundreds of them in the new world. I would have done the same in hostile environs especially before I invested in an expensive trade town afterwards. Forts were all about protecting trade and harbors. (See: Fort McHenry).

I worked for many years in the construction business and last year I am doing some ground works for water pipes. I am not an engineer but I do the actual labor.

For a simple industrial building it takes months of planning and then again more months for the foundations to be completed. It easily takes 1 to 2 years before anything is build at all. Big machinery like excavators and cranes are used. Advanced technology for our standards. Building a starfort is such an undertaking, the amount of dirt that needs to be moved and transported to level and heighten the surface to build on dwarves that of a big building we build today. And this is only dirt, there are other materials you find in the ground like clay which is a pain in the ass cause it sticks to the machinery. Then there are the canals around it which is another huge undertaking. Here in the Netherlands there is groundwater between 1-2 meter below ground level. If you want to build a simple and small basement you need to drain the water with hoses that go deep in the ground and have pumps running for 3 week at least just to lower the ground water 1 or 2 meter so can dig out the basement. No pumping no digging cause the groundwater will fill your pit. You will need to support the sides otherwise it will collapse in your pit. Digging the canals around a starfort is on a whole other level. I can’t even imagine the amount of work that goes into the bigger starforts. And here I didn’t even took into consideration the geometry used in the starforts, building the actual starfort above and under the ground. It’s a gigantic undertaking that will take us years to complete 1 starfort.

Now on the other hand if we look at the military equipment we have today it wouldn’t take us very long to disable or destroy a starfort. I’d imagine a couple of fighter jets, bombers or a cruiser on the ocean do that job in an instance.

I find it hard to believe that if we conquer a piece of land that we would spend years to building a fort just to defend it so we can setup trade and build harbors which would take even longer. I find it even harder to believe that a society capable of building these starforts by the hundreds all around the world would use canon’s and mortars for warfare. I mean they have to be at least as advanced as us (but probably way more) to even build these things and we’d destroy them in a blink of an eye.

 

[Akanah]

I didn't know in which Starfort thread to mention it, but I found two old maps of Berlin. One map without Starfort outlines and one with Starfort outlines. Both maps are very similar from the building structures and the river course. Interesting is, there are only 4 years between the two versions. If you look closely at the map of 1652, you can already see the beginnings of a Starfort formation on the left side of Berlin.
But these beginnings are smaller than the later version of 1656. It would not make sense if people would build small turrets first and then 4 years later bigger turrets with complete Starfort form.
Somehow it looks as if the start fort form had developed somehow without human intervention.
I found another starfort-map from 1737.
The Starfort looks a little different than from 1656.
Could villages/cities grow as starforts out of the earth and change ?

 

[13thMonkey]

I map out star forts on Google earth and used to colaborate with the owner of starforts.org
i gave that up when he literally made up a star city at the Baja peninsula that turned out to be a previously unmapped city in France
(see his last video) and really didn;t bother correcting his error.

My collecting hobby started by watching a video by Colm Gibney (another previous collaborator of starforts.org)
realizing i had lived across from one of these in Den Helder, The Netherlands as a child.
However digging in more and more one comes to find that there are starforts from many ages.
On old maps we find that this city of Den Helder or Helder was a sandbank/beach still when cities like Amsterdam were fully walled.

On the other hand we have places like Castello Sant Angelo in Rome, said to have been built in 300 A.D. to safeguard the pope from attacks.
this is a 5 pointed star connected to the also bastioned Vatican.
There is evidence of Lake Fucine, Italy having been drained with the help of starcities surrounding it in.... 78 A.D.
This throws the whole narrative upside down already but there are many more examples of the official narrative not making sense.
Why are some of these cities only walled to one particular side? Amsterdam's seaside for example had no walls, nor do Hoorn or Enkhuizen
(2 big East India Company cities) the walls point inward to the lands and leave the attackers side wide open.
What is a starfort doing in the middle of the empty pampas in Argentina? or in the middle of dense Brazillian jungles.
Henley Harbour and Churchill, Canada forts take the official narrative and kick it in the ass by being "built in permafrost without cement"
their brickwork is sp precise it fits together perfectly. but there is no reason whatsoever for either of these locations to be militarily fortified.

After more then 10.000 marks pointed down all over the world tying to castles, star forts, bunkers and walls i,m thinking that there is merit in most of the narratives given. Some of these stars are new some are old we have a tendency to re-use and or copy whatever we find when we come upon it and find it useful in some way temple of Baalbek anyone?

Maybe we found earthworks and bastioned cities from previous civilisations and expanded on them with bricks and added the whole military narritive on the fly

 

[Akanah]

I also find it strange that a star fort appears somewhere in a desert, while other cities had never been star forts before. While our capital in Saxony Dresden is said to have been a Starfort, there are no pictures at all of my hometown Chemnitz with Starfort outlines. Shouldn't all larger cities have been Starforts in former times or have Starfort pictures of some cities disappeared without trace ?

 

[13thMonkey]

No map yet of Chemnitz, but here's Dresden

 

[Blackdiamond]

Art of dino chanel have some nice posts. But The reply. ok, perhaps to do with the new T-word regulations they had to install. But, having looked at starforts for years as he have. And come to the conclusion of not only is it "modern" military construction, fair enough, but Vauben built half of them. T-word is not tartaria*

 

[13thMonkey]

Vauban building half of them is pure nonsense

This map from current day Belarus is from 1600, according to the narrative Vauban was born 1633

 

[Gabriel]

All is explained, but the topics that are not can be thought out with military-minded political, cultural, logistical and tactical logic.

Can you recommend a source that explains fort construction techniques, by whom and the general process. Also how the bricks were made, specifically where they came fromr where the limestone was coming from, how it was transported, by what routes and types of transports?

If its in another thread I haven’t found it. My apologies in advance if it is covered.

If all of these details are gone, Even the race that built it, I don’t know how one can be sure of anything regarding the buildings original purpose prior to a military occupying a fort and utilizing it.

I wonder if they have enough people to fill these forts - Is there any recommendation that you can make for a book explaining mundane details of how the fort was run. Was it 365 tents for the troops or did they have quarters, I wonder if they can estimate maximum troop capacity of some of these forts and do they reconcile with the expected numbers?

Thanks

 

[happenis]

It would make the most sense to create the bricks using the surrounding earth. Im not sure how as I have never made brick before, but the idea of shipping brick in such tremendous quantities seems highly unlikely. Either the forts would be built in areas that contained the type of earth needed for the project or perhaps they had found a way to turn whatever ground wether it’s clay, sand, or good old-fashioned dirt into brick.

I also have trouble picturing people building brick by brick by brick on that scale. Is it possible they had found a way to quicken or automate that process? Is it possible that these bricks were poured in a similar fashion to concrete? If we look at how many star forts there are, it would take so many people so many lifetimes to get it all built, not saying it didn’t happen, but I am sure they would do everything in their power to streamline the process.

AND/OR

In one of the latest episodes of ‘the book of boba fett’ SPOILER INC

A main character was visiting some planet and these large ant-shaped robots were building a domed structure rock by rock. It got me thinking that they may have had some way to do this, perhaps via robotoid or golem. Just another thought

 

[Gabriel]

but the idea of shipping brick in such tremendous quantities seems highly unlikely

I agree, so I was wondering if there are any good studies dedicated to this subject. I noticed that one site contains quite a bit of information regarding historical building materials and quarries in the US and a list of quarries and limited photos. There are a few books listed in the references section. It is worth taking a look at.