"Tartaria" is a myth and didn't exist

[trismegistus]

How is it even possible?

Perhaps an undertaking for the wiki (SH Wiki). I posted some additional links above to older conversations that should help newer people find research to dig through. Understandably, the sheer breadth of his work is difficult even for the more studious among us to tackle in a reasonable time - summarizing it would be a tall task.

but there are a lot of interesting arguments brought about by Fomenko which cannot be brushed away by saying "it's a Russian psy-op". It's just stupid!

A good psyop contains mostly good information - in order to sell the lie. It isn't stupid to question the intentions of any researcher or historian, and context sometimes can be an important factor in determining one's credibility. I don't know enough about Fomenko or his work in detail to weigh in on whether or not he is part of an intel op - but he does make very compelling arguments worth considering for anyone interested in this topic.

 

[Deleted member 37]

A good psyop contains mostly good information - in order to sell the lie. It isn't stupid to question the intentions of any researcher or historian, and context sometimes can be an important factor in determining one's credibility.

There is a fine line between a lie and a mistake. It all comes down to subjective perception. Fomenko has done a lot of mistakes, that's for sure. I do a lot of mistakes, equally sure and even more. You guys do mistakes. Do you like being called shills out of the mistakes you do? I suppose not! Funny thing is that Fomenko is not trying to make us swallow Putin and Russia against our will. He constantly talks about his work in the spirit of falsifiability.

Understandably, the sheer breadth of his work is difficult even for the more studious among us to tackle in a reasonable time - summarizing it would be a tall task.

Yes ure. But I don't want to be a fanatic here. I'll try to contribute by selecting the most compelling arguments and commenting on those with a dedicated thread.

 

[evgenik]

maybe they were states of people with elongated skulls?

 

[dreamtime]

How is it even possible?

It would be possible to summarize it. Probably the biggest barrier to make his views available to more people.

One can easily take every chapter of his books and summarize each into a short paragraph.

Actually now that we are thinking about an SH Wiki, summarizing his work in that way may be one of the most important tasks of such a wiki.

 

[Jd755]

The discussion here is well worth a perusal. These are the older replies to the thread not the contenporary one linked to above.
SH Archive Replies - Tartary - an Empire hidden in history. It was bigger than Russia once...

 

[matematik]

This shows you've never read a single line out of Fomenko's work. Good job!
Fomenko's work is used by Russian nationalists who say Fomenko is a shill, more or less the same things you say. Disproving thousands of pages of work out of your Russophobia is a poor display of intellect. And then China?!?! Do you even know what Fomenko says about China? Of course not, why am I asking?

As far as I'm aware the idea of Tartaria was brought to non-Russian audiences through the work of the New Earth channel on Youtube, which seems to be largely based on Fomenko's ideas, and frequently directly credits him.

From what I recall of Fomenko's work he mentions Tartaria quite a lot. I think it was other researchers who really turned Tartaria into a stand alone theory in its own right, but my understanding is the foundation is Fomenko's work.

I know Fomenko is dismissive of Chinese history, but I don't see how that changes the Eurasionist aspect because he believes that a large part of modern day China was part of Tartaria/Russia

I don't see how saying Tartaria probably wasn't a Russian/Slavic civilisation is Russophobic. That's like saying the claim that Ireland and Scotland weren't Anglo-Saxon civilisations is Anglophobic.

 

[Deleted member 37]

As far as I'm aware the idea of Tartaria was brought to non-Russian audiences through the work of the New Earth channel on Youtube, which seems to be largely based on Fomenko's ideas, and frequently directly credits him.

Then talk about New Earth channel. By your logic Fomenko was inspired by Morozov who was inspired by other previous recentists ultimately ending with the very English Newton. Duh.

From what I recall of Fomenko's work he mentions Tartaria quite a lot. I think it was other researchers who really turned Tartaria into a stand alone theory in its own right, but my understanding is the foundation is Fomenko's work.

And what does it mean?

I know Fomenko is dismissive of Chinese history, but I don't see how that changes the Eurasionist aspect because he believes that a large part of modern day China was part of Tartaria/Russia

Yes he is a Russian and talks about Russia, but wait he shouldn't talk about Russia because it's too nationalist, but wait he also talks about England he shouldn't talk about England because it's too Eurasianist!!!

I don't see how saying Tartaria probably wasn't a Russian/Slavic civilisation is Russophobic. That's like saying the claim that Ireland and Scotland weren't Anglo-Saxon civilisations is Anglophobic.

Problem is that politics have nothing to do with historical research, so please stop pushing this West vs East bias where it doesn't belong.

 

[Blackdiamond]

Then talk about New Earth channel. By your logic Fomenko was inspired by Morozov who was inspired by other previous recentists ultimately ending with the very English Newton. Duh.

And what does it mean?

Yes he is a Russian and talks about Russia, but wait he shouldn't talk about Russia because it's too nationalist, but wait he also talks about England he shouldn't talk about England because it's too Eurasianist!!!

Problem is that politics have nothing to do with historical research, so please stop pushing this West vs East bias where it doesn't belong.

It has all to do with it. Especially empires such as Englands queen is german. Russians claim on asian lands, fomenka helped, sure. American history is still used to push the people under the state umbrella. What i personally believe, is that , since fomenkos work was done in the soviet era if im not mistaken, pushed the Russians = Tartars. To me that is the piece of false state propaganda. China as well. Todays chinese empire is probably bigger then it has ever been. Can we even be sure it is half as old as the officials say? Some people here on Sh as well as fomenko questions that.
It can be argued that all modern day empires use history for politic reasons. Be they fals or true. Isnt that why we are here?

 

[Deleted member 37]

It has all to do with it.

I think you misunderstood what I said

What i personally believe, is that , since fomenkos work was done in the soviet era if im not mistaken, pushed the Russians = Tartars. To me that is the piece of false state propaganda.

What does it mean?

Guys! Can you stop bringing politics into the debate without even knowing what you are talking about? Thank you.

 

[Blackdiamond]

I think you misunderstood what I said

What does it mean?

Guys! Can you stop bringing politics into the debate without even knowing what you are talking about? Thank you.

I mean, if you were working for goverment, he was a teacher no? You push state agenda. Or you were not working.

 

[Deleted member 37]

I mean, if you were working for goverment, he was a teacher no? You push state agenda. Or you were not working.

Just a brief reminder that you talked about i standing for 1 in another thread. Fomenko is the one behind it, so if he is a 'secret agent' then you and me are 'secret fools'. Enjoy it.

 

[grav]

But, but, sheneeda name, which, as I learned from a girl named Shenita, is how she was so dubbed as a newborn when her aunts asked her mom, "What her name be?"

What else can we call the lost civilization?
Anunnakia would be my guess, because I don`t think that Homo ignoranus ever built any grand architecture anywhere, any time, until perhaps the 1900s. Even then, our best pales in quality and beauty compared to the buildings and star forts of the glorious past.

How about Atlantis? which word may have referred to a worldwide empire, its main city having been destroyed in a cataclysm. Mu? Lemuria? Babylonia?
Not Hyperborea, at least.

That which Shakespeare would call a rose is as good as it gets at this point. I appreciate the thread's thesis about lack of proof of ownership, but until a proper name is brought forth, I am stuck with Tartaria.
Yes, Velikovsky's science and cosmology are badly flawed -- with an error factor around 99% -- but his exegesis of world history and the origins of man are better than the alternatives of Scaliger and Darwin and the Jesuit freemasons who run our clown show world.

 

[Persister]

But, but, sheneeda name, which, as I learned from a girl named Shenita, is how she was so dubbed as a newborn when her aunts asked her mom, "What her name be?"

What else can we call the lost civilization?
Anunnakia would be my guess, because I don`t think that Homo ignoranus ever built any grand architecture anywhere, any time, until perhaps the 1900s. Even then, our best pales in quality and beauty compared to the buildings and star forts of the glorious past.

How about Atlantis? which word may have referred to a worldwide empire, its main city having been destroyed in a cataclysm. Mu? Lemuria? Babylonia?
Not Hyperborea, at least.

That which Shakespeare would call a rose is as good as it gets at this point. I appreciate the thread's thesis about lack of proof of ownership, but until a proper name is brought forth, I am stuck with Tartaria.
Yes, Velikovsky's science and cosmology are badly flawed -- with an error factor around 99% -- but his exegesis of world history and the origins of man are better than the alternatives of Scaliger and Darwin and the Jesuit freemasons who run our clown show world.

Much of Tartarian history has been deleted from history. But we don't just have old maps that point out Tartarians coming from Scythia. There is still quite a bit of written history that shows that Tartary existed. It WAS a powerful nation. It DID exist. And it came to control much of Asia. But I believe, from my extensive research, that The Scythians/The Israelites can source back to The Phoenicians, who were primarily of David and Salomon's Judah, combined with the peoples of Tyre and Sidon. Of course, those peoples worshiped the sun, but they DID only believe in one god. And they were Adamic/White (H120 Adam & G444 Anthropos - red, to show blood in the face, able to blush) as are The Israelites. They had common values. And they worked well together. They controlled The Mediterranean Sea, created Carthage, traveled the oceans of the earth, and established mines in Ireland. I have come to believe that the magnificent structures, across the face of the earth, were built by The Phoenicians, who also established advanced society in northern India. They, over time, disappeared. And then, with a weakened Judah, The Judahites were taken into captivity. Those Israelites ultimately escaped their captivity and created the nation of Scythia, to the north of The Black Sea.

 

[Bitbybit]

Yes, i agree with TS. When i have seen the word "Tartary" etc in maps etc then each time when i have made a test translation of "Tartary" in my head as "Wasteland" or "Sahara" or "Siberia" and very little context contradicted this. Most of what i have read has been supporting this scenario.

Some texts is talking about the people living in tartary as nomad people, with no cities etc and some have even taken this as evidence for superior developed lifestyle in harmony with nature etc. I think this is wrong and mostly just comparable to the lifestyle we see remnants of in Roma/gypsies/tattare.
The tartar territory has left no massive ruins in russia, no costline, no harbours. People have always built cities by the sea.
Sorry but I believe the tartar territory is found always different on the older maps, not because any tartar empire was changing its power influence, but more likely because no empire was claiming the land.

 

[fabiorem]

One strong argument against the idea of Tartary/Tartaria is the fact that the huge, beautiful buildings people like to post in threads related to Tartary are usually located in Europe, where Tartaria was not located. This kind of architecture is not present in the huge landmass that used to be Tartary.

Still doesn't explain the mystery of the world's fairs.

I remember posting about this once. The victorian buildings are nowhere to be found in the land where Tartary was supposed to be.
A uncanny theory would be that these buildings simply vanished, due to some tesla-like teleport technology, and were sent to the inner Earth. But it is just speculation and there is not a conclusive proof such thing could have happened.
There were also the pyramids indicated in a map, and buried star forts, but there are no excavations happening in those areas, so we can't know for sure what could have happened. We can only speculate, and here lies the problem, because the more you speculate, the more you run in circles. Today I think it would be better to pay attention to current events, because the amount of lies we are seeing now certainly happened before, not just the spanish flu, but events in the 19th century as well. Fact is, we will never know true history, because it was falsified several times.

 

[trismegistus]

The victorian buildings are nowhere to be found in the land where Tartary was supposed to be.

Victorian, perhaps not. But there are no lack of curious buildings in former Tartary

Beautiful & Mysterious Structures In the Russian Kursk Oblast - Abandoned Spaces

Tomsk, the former Athens of Siberia - Lambert Coleman

Wooden Beauty – Churches of the Russian North

Hot springs in cold Tyumen. From the Urals to Siberia

Abandoned church in the middle of nowhere · Russia Travel Blog

 

[Bitbybit]

Victorian, perhaps not. But there are no lack of curious buildings in former Tartary

Beautiful & Mysterious Structures In the Russian Kursk Oblast - Abandoned Spaces

Tomsk, the former Athens of Siberia - Lambert Coleman

Wooden Beauty – Churches of the Russian North

Hot springs in cold Tyumen. From the Urals to Siberia

Abandoned church in the middle of nowhere · Russia Travel Blog

Regarding the abanoned church, when i checked it on google maps. There are some villages nearby.
Even small villages often got a church as well.. in other countires as well

 

[trismegistus]

Regarding the abanoned church, when i checked it on google maps. There are some villages nearby.
Even small villages often got a church as well i think.

How do we know which came first? Did the village build the church or did they build the village around the found structure?

 

[Persister]

I remember posting about this once. The victorian buildings are nowhere to be found in the land where Tartary was supposed to be.
A uncanny theory would be that these buildings simply vanished, due to some tesla-like teleport technology, and were sent to the inner Earth. But it is just speculation and there is not a conclusive proof such thing could have happened.
There were also the pyramids indicated in a map, and buried star forts, but there are no excavations happening in those areas, so we can't know for sure what could have happened. We can only speculate, and here lies the problem, because the more you speculate, the more you run in circles. Today I think it would be better to pay attention to current events, because the amount of lies we are seeing now certainly happened before, not just the spanish flu, but events in the 19th century as well. Fact is, we will never know true history, because it was falsified several times.

These are very thoughtful comments. I agree that it's difficult to grasp that there would have been an advanced Tartary when there is nothing there now. And it wasn't that long ago. Old maps show many large cities in northern Asia. But there is nothing there now. What happened?! We would certainly love to know!

 

[Blackdiamond]

Yes, i agree with TS. When i have seen the word "Tartary" etc in maps etc then each time when i have made a test translation "Tartary" in my head as "Wasteland" or "Sahara" and very little context contradicted this. Most of what i have read has been supporting this scenario.

Some texts is talking about the tartars as nomad people, with no cities etc and some have even taken this as evidence for superior lifestyle in harmony with nature etc. I think this is wrong and mostly just comparable to the lifestyle we see remnants of in Roma/gypsies/tattare.
The tartar territory has left no massive ruins in russia, no costline, no harbours. People have always built cities by the sea.
Sorry but I believe the tartar territory is found always different on the older maps, not because any tartar empire was changing its power influence, but more likely because no empire was claiming the land.

So the tartar strait, tartar wall of Peking, todays ta'tar people etc. was just a joke or something? There are cities all over the maps. And different peoples. Novosibirsk means New siberia. Someone clearly lived there since there are mirror storus of siberia/tartary as to them of northern americas. They also had big cities.

These are very thoughtful comments. I agree that it's difficult to grasp that there would have been an advanced Tartary when there is nothing there now. And it wasn't that long ago. Old maps show many large cities in northern Asia. But there is nothing there now. What happened?! We would certainly love to know!

Have you seen the various empty grids, squares and canals? Have a look at the star city of Vladivostok. Lots of argument in this forums that some structures is still around today.

Edit with one example of a sibir town built in 1979 according to wiki.