"Tartaria" is a myth and didn't exist

[Mavis]

Does anyone know if the three tablets discovered in 1961 in the village of Tartaria in Romania have been deciphered? There is a photo of one of the tablets in Wikipedia.

 

[Tsigan]

so there is a village called Tartaria In Romeania where they speak kind of latin. What kind of natures library is that! =D

 

[Janusstark]

I agree that the few excerpts from books that I will share isn't proving much of anything, but at the same time, it seems like the references to a Tartarian people in numerous books (examples such as Travels in Tartary, Thibet and China by M. Huc and With Peter Fleming in Tartar by Gary Hogg) and its language below, is in dozens of books. And I am arguing for the existence of their culture.

Hogg argues that the reason why the Tartars never built was because they are masters of a desolate environment, and a cruel nomadic culture. (see below)

View attachment 19157​

From what I have witnessed, it seems that all sorts of circumstantial evidence supports the argument that there was a Tartarian culture, and in one book, the screenshots below compare an alleged Tartarian language (image left), to the more well known Tangut script (center and right image):

View attachment 19154​

View attachment 19150​

View attachment 19152​

Nord en Oost Tartarye, Nicholas Witsen

I would say it looks to me like a semitic language written right to left and most like arabic (modern reqaa or naskh script, image left). The image far right, middle box, shows "Crimean-Tartar" numbers. But certainly if one were to say it was "Romulan" from Star Trek, in the end I would be none wiser.

I think we have all come across this commentary either on this site or elsewhere pertaining to the Tartar language:

View attachment 19155​

source - The General History of China, Du Halde.
​

At any rate I think after looking at these books, I favor that a Tartarian Culture existed. But I can't go any further and say that I can similarly show evidence of borders, architecture, etc...

Also, if Tartary lacks the circumstantial evidence to prove they are a distinct (vanished) culture, then I will have to critically examine some other ancient cultures.

Lastly, I would entertain any thoughts from the group: Is there an agreed upon archaeologic standard to satisfactorily prove the existence of a culture in the absence of native speakers (ie., a vanished race)?

​

I have something to say about these scripts : about the image left , It's seems very much like the vertical tibetan script (The vertical Phags-pa script is known as horyig (ཧོར་ཡིག་ hor-yig, "Mongolian letters") and in fact, Mongolian vertical writing (in tibetan , Mongolia is called Hor).

I'll leave you to ponder the implications of the presence of Hor or Tibetan characters in the world of Western Tatars, for example... That means that there a bond between sino-tibetan linguistic group and mongolo-turcic languages ! Isn't it the proof of the exsistence, at least of a very ancient continuity/community of civilisation from China to the lands of Tatars and beyond (which, for convenience, we could call here TARTARIA) ?

For the rest of the letters shown here, it's actually very much sino-tibetan to me (according to our current classification, of course). It's easy to recognize tibetan alphabet, Zhang-Zhung or, eventually a kind of qiangic language.

"Northern Qiang is a member of the Qiangic branch of the Sino-Tibetan language family. It is spoken in the north of Sichuan Province in the south west of China, particularly in Beichuan, Heishui, Mao, and Songpan counties. In 1999 there were about 57,800 speakers of Northern Qiang, most of whom were adults. Few children acquire the language at home.

Northern Qiang is also known as Ch'iang. There are five dialects, which are mutually intelligible: Mawo, Qugu, Weigu, Cimulin and Luhua. It is closely related to Southern Qiang, which is tonal, unlike Northern Qiang.


Northern Qiang can be written with the Latin alphabet using an orthography developed in the 1980s and based on the Qugu dialect. This became the official way to write Qiang in 1993. Relatively few speakers of Qiang are able to read and write their language, however most are literate in Chinese. A new script, known as the Qiang or Rma Script, was introduced in 2017. Qiang is taught during the first few years of primary schools, and is used as a medium of instruction, alongside Mandarin, to some extent." (source)

Tibetan alphabet

Capital ZHANG-ZHUNG scripts (which is according to me, by large antiquity, the matrix of tibetan and many other languages).

About the Zhang-Zhung language, I recommend the reading of Siegbert Hummel's 'On Zhang-Zhung'. I have not much seen any mention of Zhang-Zhung among theories about Tartary/Tartaria. Yet, Tibet was allegedly part of the civilisation of Zhang-Zhung (coming from it, even) which leads me, logically , to a link between Tartaria and Zhang-Zhung.

The history of Tibet is closely linked to that of the Zhang-Zhung empire, which preceded it, overtook it and of which it was a vassal. Could it be that this vanished empire (which chronicles say even Rome paid tribute to) is part of the great Tartarian enigma?

I recommend Dmitri Ermakov's excellent book - admittedly focused on the religious traditions that existed and continue to exist from the peri-himalayan zone to Siberia: BѲ AND BÖN: ANCIENT SHAMANIC TRADITIONS OF SIBERIA AND TIBET IN THEIR RELATION TO THE TEACHINGS OF A CENTRAL ASIAN BUDDHA.

I think his introduction about the extent of the Zhang Zhung empire (centered on Mt Kailash/ Tise) might intrigue a few people here.
"This ancient kingdom included what is now Western Tibet and the sacred Mount Tise, also known as Mount Kailash. The Zhang Zhung language includes forty letters, and according to Yungdrung Bön texts, these ‘Forty Magical Letters’ were taught by Tonpa Shenrap Miwo. The two standard scripts were called Zhang Zhung mar chen and Zhang Zhung mar chung, ‘excellent capital letters of Zhang Zhung’ and ‘excellent lesser letters of Zhang Zhung.’ " (The Forty Magical Letters of Zhang Zhung)

I also remember seeing on an very old map (I'll try to find it again), the same sino-tibetan letters, but mentionned as that of SCYTHIA, north of Sibiria ! (remember SIBIR, capital of Great Tartary)

All this should bring reality to the Tartarian theories, on the base of very researched topics, while some here tend just to treat it like a "myth". Yes there is a lot to re discover, buts systemic scepticism is sometimes less motivated by scientific curiosity than by blind assessment that what seems improbable or strange is fake. Our quest is about a shredded enigma — one yet which resolution is of greatest importance.

I agree that the few excerpts from books that I will share isn't proving much of anything, but at the same time, it seems like the references to a Tartarian people in numerous books (examples such as Travels in Tartary, Thibet and China by M. Huc and With Peter Fleming in Tartar by Gary Hogg) and its language below, is in dozens of books. And I am arguing for the existence of their culture.

Hogg argues that the reason why the Tartars never built was because they are masters of a desolate environment, and a cruel nomadic culture. (see below)

View attachment 19157​

From what I have witnessed, it seems that all sorts of circumstantial evidence supports the argument that there was a Tartarian culture, and in one book, the screenshots below compare an alleged Tartarian language (image left), to the more well known Tangut script (center and right image):

View attachment 19154​

View attachment 19150​

View attachment 19152​

Nord en Oost Tartarye, Nicholas Witsen

I would say it looks to me like a semitic language written right to left and most like arabic (modern reqaa or naskh script, image left). The image far right, middle box, shows "Crimean-Tartar" numbers. But certainly if one were to say it was "Romulan" from Star Trek, in the end I would be none wiser.

I think we have all come across this commentary either on this site or elsewhere pertaining to the Tartar language:

View attachment 19155​

source - The General History of China, Du Halde.
​

At any rate I think after looking at these books, I favor that a Tartarian Culture existed. But I can't go any further and say that I can similarly show evidence of borders, architecture, etc...

Also, if Tartary lacks the circumstantial evidence to prove they are a distinct (vanished) culture, then I will have to critically examine some other ancient cultures.

Lastly, I would entertain any thoughts from the group: Is there an agreed upon archaeologic standard to satisfactorily prove the existence of a culture in the absence of native speakers (ie., a vanished race)?

​

I re found it (actually, it was on this site) : The " characters Scythico Tartarici" in this map are actually tibetan ume spelling , of which the following is an example :

Again, look on the map : we would not exepct to find such language and script in the region of north Siberia/Sibiria and Hyperborea, right ? Yet, there it is !!!
I cannot resist the pleasure of translating from Latin what is written here: "presented as still unknown by Stralbergius. Are not completely distant from the Europeans-Scythians".

On this other map, an arc running from present-day Syria and Lebanon to the Russian Caucasus, passing through present-day Georgia and Armenia, appears under the heading "spread of languages to the Scythian regions" and with the word "tartarica". Circassia (today's Azov region and from the Crimea to Odessa) is also mentioned: "Tartary with Teutonic and Slavic-sounding languages".
Is this really the idea we have of the region? And yet ...

SO, there is a lot to say and think about the link between, Scythia, Mongolia, Tartaria, Tibet, Kathaï/Kitaï/China (yes, did you know that until today, "Kitai" (китае) is the russian (tartarian) word for "China" ?) and last but not least ZHANG-ZHUNG (which gave to Tibet [a province of it] it's archaïc civilization)… This was a mega civilization !!! It was REAL ( and HUGE) !

 

[IceArctic]

Image: Canadian Parliament circa 1900. As depicted by the surrounding empty landscape it seems to be out of place in terms of design and architectural achievement for the location and period.


We all know that there is compelling evidence for a lost or hidden Empire called Tartary or Grand Tartary. We see this in maps, flags, historic books, records, etc.

We also see very compelling evidence for Old World architecture in North America, many of which implies a civilisation that is not acknowledged by mainstream history and/or archaeology (as provided by evidence of buried buildings, out of place architecture, World Fairs, and subsequent fires and destruction, deliberately doctored Old World photographs, etc., ie. mudflood).

My question pertains specifically to the methodology and evidence linking these two phenomenon together. So far as I understand it, there are two possibilities;

1) Tartary was an empire that existed but did not have a stronghold in North America, and these two phenomenon are not linked but simultaneously hidden chapters of history, unrelated, as this forum, thread, and as trismegistus previously outlined. If this is true, there remains many unknown aspects about these architectural achievements. Who built them and when? Is there a way to find more evidence and date these mysterious anomalies. So far, I lean towards this separate but hidden histories approach.

2) Tartary did have a stronghold in North America and perhaps there is evidence linking these two phenomenon (which so far, I believe is less likely. It seems much of this is based on the works by Anatoly Fomenko amongst others).

Regardless, there is absolutely more to this story than we currently have been able to piece together, and far more work to be done to uncover some of these historic mysteries, anomalies, and deliberate cover-ups. I am personally more interested in the Old World architectural phenomenon that has gotten conflated with Tartary, rather than the historic empire that got erased from history (although I also enjoy learning about this topic too). I believe there is more to North American history. There is something yet to discover, so keep pulling on that thread! Thank you to this community and others who have taken up the task so far. As I learn more, and if I find anything significant to this question I will be sure to provide subsequent information.

Cheers,
IceArctic

 

[IceArctic]

If anyone has more information on Canadian Old World Architecture please feel free to post links as a reply. This image of Canadian Parliament was officially taken during construction in 1863. (Photo credit: Library and Archives Canada). You can see the one photograph I found of construction, but it does seem to have evidence of masking (similar to these photos:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi_QYVFymQw
)

Feel free to share more information relating to this building and other similar buildings in the region. Let me know your thoughts.

 

[crystallize]

Who and when changed the brand of "Tartaria" from "giant Russia encompassing most of Europe and Asia" to "pre-mudflood Atlantis with giants, Nephilim and Annunaki"?

 

[crystallize]

One can probably call it enshittification

 

[trismegistus]

Who and when changed the brand of "Tartaria" from "giant Russia encompassing most of Europe and Asia" to "pre-mudflood Atlantis with giants, Nephilim and Annunaki"?

I'm not sure I could give you specifics, but it was whenever this type of research moved over to YT and social media. It got particularly noticeable around 2020.

 

[Tomkat]

I have something to say about these scripts : about the image left , It's seems very much like the vertical tibetan script (The vertical Phags-pa script is known as horyig (ཧོར་ཡིག་ hor-yig, "Mongolian letters") and in fact, Mongolian vertical writing (in tibetan , Mongolia is called Hor).

View attachment 28810​

I'll leave you to ponder the implications of the presence of Hor or Tibetan characters in the world of Western Tatars, for example... That means that there a bond between sino-tibetan linguistic group and mongolo-turcic languages ! Isn't it the proof of the exsistence, at least of a very ancient continuity/community of civilisation from China to the lands of Tatars and beyond (which, for convenience, we could call here TARTARIA) ?

For the rest of the letters shown here, it's actually very much sino-tibetan to me (according to our current classification, of course). It's easy to recognize tibetan alphabet, Zhang-Zhung or, eventually a kind of qiangic language.

"Northern Qiang is a member of the Qiangic branch of the Sino-Tibetan language family. It is spoken in the north of Sichuan Province in the south west of China, particularly in Beichuan, Heishui, Mao, and Songpan counties. In 1999 there were about 57,800 speakers of Northern Qiang, most of whom were adults. Few children acquire the language at home.

View attachment 28809​

Northern Qiang is also known as Ch'iang. There are five dialects, which are mutually intelligible: Mawo, Qugu, Weigu, Cimulin and Luhua. It is closely related to Southern Qiang, which is tonal, unlike Northern Qiang.


Northern Qiang can be written with the Latin alphabet using an orthography developed in the 1980s and based on the Qugu dialect. This became the official way to write Qiang in 1993. Relatively few speakers of Qiang are able to read and write their language, however most are literate in Chinese. A new script, known as the Qiang or Rma Script, was introduced in 2017. Qiang is taught during the first few years of primary schools, and is used as a medium of instruction, alongside Mandarin, to some extent." (source)

Tibetan alphabet

View attachment 28808​

Capital ZHANG-ZHUNG scripts (which is according to me, by large antiquity, the matrix of tibetan and many other languages).

View attachment 28807​

About the Zhang-Zhung language, I recommend the reading of Siegbert Hummel's 'On Zhang-Zhung'. I have not much seen any mention of Zhang-Zhung among theories about Tartary/Tartaria. Yet, Tibet was allegedly part of the civilisation of Zhang-Zhung (coming from it, even) which leads me, logically , to a link between Tartaria and Zhang-Zhung.

The history of Tibet is closely linked to that of the Zhang-Zhung empire, which preceded it, overtook it and of which it was a vassal. Could it be that this vanished empire (which chronicles say even Rome paid tribute to) is part of the great Tartarian enigma?

I recommend Dmitri Ermakov's excellent book - admittedly focused on the religious traditions that existed and continue to exist from the peri-himalayan zone to Siberia: BѲ AND BÖN: ANCIENT SHAMANIC TRADITIONS OF SIBERIA AND TIBET IN THEIR RELATION TO THE TEACHINGS OF A CENTRAL ASIAN BUDDHA.

I think his introduction about the extent of the Zhang Zhung empire (centered on Mt Kailash/ Tise) might intrigue a few people here.
"This ancient kingdom included what is now Western Tibet and the sacred Mount Tise, also known as Mount Kailash. The Zhang Zhung language includes forty letters, and according to Yungdrung Bön texts, these ‘Forty Magical Letters’ were taught by Tonpa Shenrap Miwo. The two standard scripts were called Zhang Zhung mar chen and Zhang Zhung mar chung, ‘excellent capital letters of Zhang Zhung’ and ‘excellent lesser letters of Zhang Zhung.’ " (The Forty Magical Letters of Zhang Zhung)

View attachment 28806


View attachment 28805​

I also remember seeing on an very old map (I'll try to find it again), the same sino-tibetan letters, but mentionned as that of SCYTHIA, north of Sibiria ! (remember SIBIR, capital of Great Tartary)

All this should bring reality to the Tartarian theories, on the base of very researched topics, while some here tend just to treat it like a "myth". Yes there is a lot to re discover, buts systemic scepticism is sometimes less motivated by scientific curiosity than by blind assessment that what seems improbable or strange is fake. Our quest is about a shredded enigma — one yet which resolution is of greatest importance.

View attachment 28811​

I re found it (actually, it was on this site) : The " characters Scythico Tartarici" in this map are actually tibetan ume spelling , of which the following is an example :

View attachment 28812​

Again, look on the map : we would not exepct to find such language and script in the region of north Siberia/Sibiria and Hyperborea, right ? Yet, there it is !!!
I cannot resist the pleasure of translating from Latin what is written here: "presented as still unknown by Stralbergius. Are not completely distant from the Europeans-Scythians".

View attachment 28815
View attachment 28816​

On this other map, an arc running from present-day Syria and Lebanon to the Russian Caucasus, passing through present-day Georgia and Armenia, appears under the heading "spread of languages to the Scythian regions" and with the word "tartarica". Circassia (today's Azov region and from the Crimea to Odessa) is also mentioned: "Tartary with Teutonic and Slavic-sounding languages".
Is this really the idea we have of the region? And yet ...

SO, there is a lot to say and think about the link between, Scythia, Mongolia, Tartaria, Tibet, Kathaï/Kitaï/China (yes, did you know that until today, "Kitai" (китае) is the russian (tartarian) word for "China" ?) and last but not least ZHANG-ZHUNG (which gave to Tibet [a province of it] it's archaïc civilization)… This was a mega civilization !!! It was REAL ( and HUGE) !

Please still be around Janusstark, this is amazing. Thanks for this.

 

[grav]

I'm not sure I could give you specifics, but it was whenever this type of research moved over to YT and social media. It got particularly noticeable around 2020.

Videos can be instructive. Jon Levi shows photos of the Old World, as well as his own boots-on-the-ground explorations. He delivers a few opinions, then says, "I don't know." He is the best of a mixed lot, imo, as most YTers are self-involved, long-winded lecturers.
Martin Liedtke also presents some amazing stuff, but still, after about 15-20 minutes, my attention span wanders off.

As we all know, people (especially Americans) have been dumbed down and prefer entertainment to education. Reading text is a lost art.
That there are so many languages and forms of script is another stumbling block to our discovery of Everything.
Cuneiform tablets, for example, seem to be a primitive communication system. But now we hear that ancient clay tablets with images may actually be a superior method of transferring ideas and, dare I say the word? data.
Other words that come to mind:
AI
matrix
world ages
Tower of Babel
reset

 

[trismegistus]

Videos can be instructive. Jon Levi shows photos of the Old World, as well as his own boots-on-the-ground explorations. He delivers a few opinions, then says, "I don't know." He is the best of a mixed lot, imo, as most YTers are self-involved, long-winded lecturers.
Martin Liedtke also presents some amazing stuff, but still, after about 15-20 minutes, my attention span wanders off.

Yes of course there are a few good ones out there doing research the right way, or at least as well as you can on a video platform revolving around engagement versus the content of the video.

I would say in relation to the dumbing down of the topic the bigger culprit is social media. Photoshopped/AI images, or photos with vague text, and "research" that has to be condensed down to less than 3 minutes (that is also scored based off engagement rather than accuracy) is why you see so much crap out there. Seems like a giant game of telephone where the information is continually distilled through different filters until it reduces down to what you see now. It has also had enough exposure to people who are more interested in topics like Nephilim/Annunaki who will use that information to bolster their own notions on the "true" hidden history.

It is ironic that after almost a decade of looking into SH topics I spend more of my time (outside of the SH forums) debunking a lot of this crap, or at least seeing it with great disappointment. It is a shame to see a topic I have spent a lot of time and effort researching getting bastardized by people who have watched a few YT videos and feel they have it all figured out.

I try to think that there is a silver lining to this problem - that this is the price that is paid in order to get information out to a wider audience. I think anyone who has been on this site for a few years can even see a microcosm of this issue on the forum itself. As the site grows and more members joined and contributed the overall quality of research went down. I can't expect people who spend hours a day scrolling TikTok to see a topic like Tartaria and get motivated to look through old archives, do their own boots on the ground research, or join SH to start contributing high value posts. So is it better that the information stays gatekept behind the people who take the research seriously? Most here would likely say yes, but unfortunately we are past that point. The info is out there, its getting diluted, and whether that is a natural consequence of posting research on the internet or a concerted effort to lead people away from the truth is hard to say.

 

[Tomkat]

I try to think that there is a silver lining to this problem - that this is the price that is paid in order to get information out to a wider audience.

This makes a lot of sense to me.

I think anyone who has been on this site for a few years can even see a microcosm of this issue on the forum itself. As the site grows and more members joined and contributed the overall quality of research went down. I can't expect people who spend hours a day scrolling TikTok to see a topic like Tartaria and get motivated to look through old archives, do their own boots on the ground research, or join SH to start contributing high value posts.

I totally agree with this entire post Tm. I'm one of those members who doesn't research in that classical way. Books right?(Kidding). I think I contribute in other ways like a lot of members. To your point tho - every day that goes by, those traditional sources of information are less available or are simply disappearing.
One of the best things about SH is that rigorous traditional methodology that people expect from here. I don't think it has to disappear. I do think it's harder to do nowadays.

So is it better that the information stays gatekept behind the people who take the research seriously? Most here would likely say yes, but unfortunately we are past that point. The info is out there, its getting diluted, and whether that is a natural consequence of posting research on the internet or a concerted effort to lead people away from the truth is hard to say.

Interesting philosophical question. I think it's a false conundrum though and here's why: it doesn't have to be gatekeeping in that sense. All SH has to do is rethink membership qualifications. Make it a bit more sophisticated. I would absolutely give mine up if I didn't make the cut. The info here is available to anyone. Doesn't mean everyone should contribute.
PS diluted info natural consequence of internet vs lead away on purpose. We are most certainly past that point. Nothing is natural in this world. I mean let's be real: the simple fact that SH exists means we should question it's validity. They don't let a lot of truth just lay around.
This is their internet and they just let us use it.

 

[Just]

This makes a lot of sense to me.


I totally agree with this entire post Tm. I'm one of those members who doesn't research in that classical way. Books right?(Kidding). I think I contribute in other ways like a lot of members. To your point tho - every day that goes by, those traditional sources of information are less available or are simply disappearing.
One of the best things about SH is that rigorous traditional methodology that people expect from here. I don't think it has to disappear. I do think it's harder to do nowadays.



Interesting philosophical question. I think it's a false conundrum though and here's why: it doesn't have to be gatekeeping in that sense. All SH has to do is rethink membership qualifications. Make it a bit more sophisticated. I would absolutely give mine up if I didn't make the cut. The info here is available to anyone. Doesn't mean everyone should contribute.
PS diluted info natural consequence of internet vs lead away on purpose. We are most certainly past that point. Nothing is natural in this world. I mean let's be real: the simple fact that SH exists means we should question it's validity. They don't let a lot of truth just lay around.
This is their internet and they just let us use it.

Let us use it in a philanthropic way or in a ‘let’s see how close to the truth they are’ kind of way? They now have a finger on the pulse of every online interaction. They know who we are and haven’t taken us down yet. If you read or watch any of the lectures of Nick Bostrom (the closest person to an AI robot I’ve ever seen), his argument is that, if humanity is inevitably moving towards creating an AI simulation then we are likely already living in one (he has a formula to show the likelihood). His advice to all participants in a simulation is that if you begin to be aware of the nature of our reality, keep your head down and don’t make that knowledge known to the creators otherwise they’ll have to take you down. If this hasn’t happened to us, either we’re not in a simulation or we’re not a credible threat. Or both.

 

[Tapioca]

This is the thing i cant wrap my mind around. Most people researching or putting out content of "stolen" history, and especially Tartaria are jews. They, as a re legion, would not benefit from this discovery. I see the jews in ukraine is trying to rename Mother Russia to Ol´ "Muscovy".

I agree with this statement. What do they have to benefit? It is a false flag to blame the Jews for everything. There is far more to it all and Jews are not the stop sign.

After all christianity isnt organic and royals seems to be of the hidden abrahamitic kind.

The royals believe they are descended from King David from the Bible. They keep the "Stone of Scone" under their coronation chair. They believe it is the same stone Jacob used as a pillow when he had a dream about angels going up and down a ladder to heaven. They believe their lineage will / have produced the Messiah.

 

[Tapioca]

All depictions of Tartarians or Tartars / Tatars show they are regular plains people. I had never heard of "Tartaria" until I watched Jon Levi's videos. I see "Tartaria" as a catch all word for what is being hidden from the public on purpose. Especially groups of people that are being hidden from us.

A real CIA document hosted on THEIR OWN website

The main part:

"Tartar history was to be rewritten- let us be frank, was to be falsified - in order to eliminate references to Great Russian aggression and to hide the facts of the real course of Tartar-Russian relations. And this was no isolated case. Needless to say, histories which present the facts truthfully have been withdrawn and destroyed, so that the present and future generations of Muslims are forever denied the chance of learning the true facts of their nations' past. "​

Out of context, Tartar history was purposefully destroyed to hide something. In context, the true relationship between Russia and Tartar Muslims were changed to create a different union and hide animosity. Communists outlaw religion. Before Russia, when the Mongols ruled north eastern Europe / north western China, they tolerated Jews, Muslims, and Buddhists and didn't even tax them. The people were free to believe and kept their traditions. The Mongols had conquered almost half of the known world!!

This could not be under communist rule. They had to "balkanize them." Groups are defined and set against each other. The communists did this on purpose to create animosity between groups. This happens in the USA today but that is a whole nother discussion.

That is why communist Russia had to erase Tartaria / Tartary. Not being taught the true history of Tartaria (united people free to believe) but as tabula rasa(s)? blank slates they learned what Russia wants them to learn. Remember Poland was once erased from the map too!! Their traditions did not die, they knew who they were.

I don't believe "Tartarians" are any more than that.

I DO believe much of history is being hid from us. False leads are given. The Jews are at fault. The Khazars. The Atlanteans. Aliens. Maybe puzzle parts we can glue together. Or not. Perhaps our controllers left us no clues.

There are people that show up where we are told they don't belong e.g. red headed giants. Proof is hidden on purpose and artifacts confiscated esp by the Smithsonian.

I believe the Bible is the only truth we are allowed. Every single word is from God and every single thing mentioned IS a clue. I made a longer post on that here.

Who does benefit from our not knowing? What would happen if we knew? What happened? Who knows for sure?

 

[Tapioca]

I try to think that there is a silver lining to this problem - that this is the price that is paid in order to get information out to a wider audience. I think anyone who has been on this site for a few years can even see a microcosm of this issue on the forum itself. As the site grows and more members joined and contributed the overall quality of research went down. I can't expect people who spend hours a day scrolling TikTok to see a topic like Tartaria and get motivated to look through old archives, do their own boots on the ground research, or join SH to start contributing high value posts. So is it better that the information stays gatekept behind the people who take the research seriously? Most here would likely say yes, but unfortunately we are past that point. The info is out there, its getting diluted, and whether that is a natural consequence of posting research on the internet or a concerted effort to lead people away from the truth is hard to say.

The first video I saw of Jon Levi's was the one where he goes through the possible different groups of people the old explorers would come across. Like the man with a face on his chest. Or the one big footed person. That is the stuff I was interested in. This led to suggested YT and KD's channel. I also still watch Jon Levi and Conspiracies R Us. I bought Jon Levi's book Not really about these topics but still.

I was part of a forum talking about conspiracies and what not but it wasn't censored. Racist, anti-semites, trolls. Be serious and you will be cut down and ridiculed. I found this forum. There were so many things I never heard of, so many more leads to follow.

Honestly the site looks almost dead. I would love for this forum to have more traffic I finally joined and my posts were mostly denied due to lack of substance. I do appreciate that. I am glad this forum is moderated and there are many serious posters.

I am glad information is NOT kept gatekept or I would never have looked into these subjects. I want to learn!!!

 

[Gold]

Yes of course there are a few good ones out there doing research the right way, or at least as well as you can on a video platform revolving around engagement versus the content of the video.

I would say in relation to the dumbing down of the topic the bigger culprit is social media. Photoshopped/AI images, or photos with vague text, and "research" that has to be condensed down to less than 3 minutes (that is also scored based off engagement rather than accuracy) is why you see so much crap out there. Seems like a giant game of telephone where the information is continually distilled through different filters until it reduces down to what you see now. It has also had enough exposure to people who are more interested in topics like Nephilim/Annunaki who will use that information to bolster their own notions on the "true" hidden history.

It is ironic that after almost a decade of looking into SH topics I spend more of my time (outside of the SH forums) debunking a lot of this crap, or at least seeing it with great disappointment. It is a shame to see a topic I have spent a lot of time and effort researching getting bastardized by people who have watched a few YT videos and feel they have it all figured out.

I try to think that there is a silver lining to this problem - that this is the price that is paid in order to get information out to a wider audience. I think anyone who has been on this site for a few years can even see a microcosm of this issue on the forum itself. As the site grows and more members joined and contributed the overall quality of research went down. I can't expect people who spend hours a day scrolling TikTok to see a topic like Tartaria and get motivated to look through old archives, do their own boots on the ground research, or join SH to start contributing high value posts. So is it better that the information stays gatekept behind the people who take the research seriously? Most here would likely say yes, but unfortunately we are past that point. The info is out there, its getting diluted, and whether that is a natural consequence of posting research on the internet or a concerted effort to lead people away from the truth is hard to say.

Probably natural consqeuence that is then co-opted, but honestly I don't care about people misusing Tartaria as a general label. I saw it coming and I can see why people roll with it and why people dislike it. I see this as more of a language problem, and the astute will know language IS warfare. I'm sure you're familiar with all the layers to the idea that our languages are weapons with encoded hexes and self curses. Tartaria is a very specific topic but there's a natural element to this even way back in time. In the same way we may say America isn't a literal empire that controlled the entire world we can also say there's obvious truth in the core of when someone says "America controls the world" in a commons definition sense. Influence, people, naming a place to be related to your place, translation... The ten million Georgia, Cairos and Alexandrias in every country.

But then you try to deconstruct what "America" really is and that goes on endlessly as you're trying to find the root of it through all the parasitism. I suspect it's the exact same no matter how far back you go in time. Nothing new under the sun. Everyone's always we wuzzing because nobody has roots.

 

[Gold]

All depictions of Tartarians or Tartars / Tatars show they are regular plains people. I had never heard of "Tartaria" until I watched Jon Levi's videos. I see "Tartaria" as a catch all word for what is being hidden from the public on purpose. Especially groups of people that are being hidden from us.

A real CIA document hosted on THEIR OWN website
View attachment 33998
The main part:

"Tartar history was to be rewritten- let us be frank, was to be falsified - in order to eliminate references to Great Russian aggression and to hide the facts of the real course of Tartar-Russian relations. And this was no isolated case. Needless to say, histories which present the facts truthfully have been withdrawn and destroyed, so that the present and future generations of Muslims are forever denied the chance of learning the true facts of their nations' past. "​

Out of context, Tartar history was purposefully destroyed to hide something. In context, the true relationship between Russia and Tartar Muslims were changed to create a different union and hide animosity. Communists outlaw religion. Before Russia, when the Mongols ruled north eastern Europe / north western China, they tolerated Jews, Muslims, and Buddhists and didn't even tax them. The people were free to believe and kept their traditions. The Mongols had conquered almost half of the known world!!

This could not be under communist rule. They had to "balkanize them." Groups are defined and set against each other. The communists did this on purpose to create animosity between groups. This happens in the USA today but that is a whole nother discussion.

That is why communist Russia had to erase Tartaria / Tartary. Not being taught the true history of Tartaria (united people free to believe) but as tabula rasa(s)? blank slates they learned what Russia wants them to learn. Remember Poland was once erased from the map too!! Their traditions did not die, they knew who they were.

I don't believe "Tartarians" are any more than that.

I DO believe much of history is being hid from us. False leads are given. The Jews are at fault. The Khazars. The Atlanteans. Aliens. Maybe puzzle parts we can glue together. Or not. Perhaps our controllers left us no clues.

There are people that show up where we are told they don't belong e.g. red headed giants. Proof is hidden on purpose and artifacts confiscated esp by the Smithsonian.

I believe the Bible is the only truth we are allowed. Every single word is from God and every single thing mentioned IS a clue. I made a longer post on that here.
Who does benefit from our not knowing? What would happen if we knew? What happened? Who knows for sure?

The term Tartaria or Tartarians has been hijacked, this is certain, but it's no different to how basically anybody can be a jew, claim to be a jew, and establish something that gets tacked onto "real jewry", whatever that is, just like we have with cryptos and namestealers. This being true does not mean that there isn't a deeper connection to erased history, erased kingdoms and a ton of shit that basically results in the scattering of tribes. The Scythians, the Goths, Huns, the Turks and Bulgars, the Euthalite/Naphtalite/Hepthalites, the red haired jews, the red haired Chinese Romans, all have connections through claimed ancestry and twisting of words, translations, and merging of cultures, that inevitably result in a blanket label that we always find insufficient, thus we wind up looking into cryptojews. But all of these rabbit holes and scattered loose ends are still part of a core fabric, no matter how tattered. You can endlessly, for a hundred thousand years, try to figure out if the Gothay were really descendent of the tribes, if the jews are Khazars, if they're Italian or Arab.

It's all so tiresome and reminds me of the Tower of Babel weapon. Scattering and confusing and obscuring to lead to endless we wuzzing, when we really wuz in either a literal definition, a geographic or genetic definition, or an esoteric or religious or synchronistic symbolic definition. That is also how rituals work, connecting every possible end no matter how loose or schizophrenic it seems. The point we're at where it just looks like we wuzzing until you get to the point you say "fuck it it's all fake" is exactly the goal of fracture language and roots as a spiritual weapon. It's a ritualistic weapon with a ritualistic purpose of symbolically severing something as well. You wind up with no choice but to accept the pile of puzzle pieces from different puzzles handed to you in a loosely wrapped blanket and lump it all together and focus on the hidden macro patterns that the micro patterns can obscure, but you can never fully ignore either. Even in the most complex webs there will be a simple connecting pattern, and that's the one that's the hardest to see because it's so complex through it's simplicity that it appears too loose to even notice.

As far as the Bible, much as I want to believe and a piece of me believes there's some core pure truth somewhere in it, it's been undeniably altered. And of course, when you break the word down, you get "buy bull". Same with money, mon-eye, Israel, Is Ra El, Isis, Ra, Elohim, same with chilled ren, off-ice, police, pole-ice... The bit in the bible I'll never forget is in Genesis where it mentions buildings existing barren and empty before any men were supposed to have been created. I don't know anything, and that's the most anyone can really know. And I can say "this or that probably existed and seems real" and say I don't know anything without it being a contradiction because finding one's self in this predicament is proof of silent weapons and that there's more to things than there seems. Within all contradictions, a consistency always emerges, and it's the gasping breaths of what would be a coherent truth.

 

[Gold]

Videos can be instructive. Jon Levi shows photos of the Old World, as well as his own boots-on-the-ground explorations. He delivers a few opinions, then says, "I don't know." He is the best of a mixed lot, imo, as most YTers are self-involved, long-winded lecturers.
Martin Liedtke also presents some amazing stuff, but still, after about 15-20 minutes, my attention span wanders off.

As we all know, people (especially Americans) have been dumbed down and prefer entertainment to education. Reading text is a lost art.
That there are so many languages and forms of script is another stumbling block to our discovery of Everything.
Cuneiform tablets, for example, seem to be a primitive communication system. But now we hear that ancient clay tablets with images may actually be a superior method of transferring ideas and, dare I say the word? data.
Other words that come to mind:
AI
matrix
world ages
Tower of Babel
reset

Conspiracy R Us is the OG. Still going strong with short, easily digestible content and digging up things not even any of us would have thought of like King George pipes being scattered everywhere and how deep they're found in the ground, their proximity to buried structures, and what that could imply.

 

[trismegistus]

Tartaria is a very specific topic but there's a natural element to this even way back in time. In the same way we may say America isn't a literal empire that controlled the entire world we can also say there's obvious truth in the core of when someone says "America controls the world" in a commons definition sense. Influence, people, naming a place to be related to your place, translation... The ten million Georgia, Cairos and Alexandrias in every country.

I had some shower thoughts about this thread yesterday, and your contribution has reminded me to post it here.

I think it is probable that this is the second time that Tartaria has been used as a psyop. The first time was in the reconstruction phase after the reset, and the second is now. What if the crumbs we are seeing about Tartaria are not remnants of truth in the narrative, but remnants of the Tartaria psyop as it was formed around the rebuilding of society?

This being true does not mean that there isn't a deeper connection to erased history, erased kingdoms and a ton of shit that basically results in the scattering of tribes. The Scythians, the Goths, Huns, the Turks and Bulgars, the Euthalite/Naphtalite/Hepthalites, the red haired jews, the red haired Chinese Romans, all have connections through claimed ancestry and twisting of words, translations, and merging of cultures, that inevitably result in a blanket label that we always find insufficient, thus we wind up looking into cryptojews. But all of these rabbit holes and scattered loose ends are still part of a core fabric, no matter how tattered. You can endlessly, for a hundred thousand years, try to figure out if the Gothay were really descendent of the tribes, if the jews are Khazars, if they're Italian or Arab.

What better way to obscure the past than to make a catch-all culture the Tartarians? The same is happening now - though instead of them being swarthy horseman who drink raw milk they are now free energy star children nephilim.

If words have power, then Tartaria has certainly held power in some form or fashion over the last few hundred years. Perhaps Tartaria is the "in case of emergency break glass" of reset narratives. In the case of the 19th century instance it was to add context to a huge geographic area in East Asia and the west coast of America. In the case of 2025 its intended purpose is to control the release of information that could potentially lead to knowledge of past cataclysm and the establishment of the modern control network.

The point we're at where it just looks like we wuzzing until you get to the point you say "fuck it it's all fake" is exactly the goal of fracture language and roots as a spiritual weapon.

I can't agree with you more on this. Speaking from experience the "shittification" of Tartaria and mudfloods is why I have experienced burnout in these topics. Thankfully SH allows for far more nuance in these discussions, which is why I'm still here and still support those that remain.