Who were the many Pauls the Venetians? Mark Paul aka Marco Polo, Paolo Veronese, Father Paul the Venetian aka Paolo Sarpi

[Gold]

So recently I was watching some of the new videos on China by Mind Unveiled and got re-inspired to look at more old maps after looking into some of his research on the Mongols, Scythians and Cathay. While doing so I noticed a couple patterns while investigating Alaska/Siberia in the Bering Strait and the kingdoms that were purported to be there such as Arzareth, Cathay, Argon and Anian. I noticed a name that popped up in those regions...

M. Paul, the Venetian.
He's accredited on old 16th century maps in the North Pole region. Just from looking around on old maps and playing with translations I've discovered he's cryptically credited as having apparently traveled to Hyperborea and Japan (depicted on old maps as standing where St. Lawrence Island does today, now a wasteland.)

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There are several "Paul the Venetians", two of note in the 16th century.
First let's go with the oldest professed depiction of Marco Polo, dated to the 16th century, depicting a man who allegedly lived 3 centuries prior.

Here's some evidence Marco Polo or Marcus Polus is "Mark Paul", or "M. Paul the Venetian", "Marco Paulo Veneto" or sometimes referred to simply as, Paul, the Venetian.
It seems fairly obvious to me the M. Paul, Mark Paul or Paul referred to as having gone to China (and Japan/Iapon which appears to have stood where St. Lawrence Island does now) are the same person.
Here are some excerpts.

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Our second figure is Paolo Veronese, a Venetian artist of the 16th century (Paolo Veronese - Wikipedia) is a very enigmatic figure. Accredited as a master artist, many of his works are magnificent, depicting a different world. He was born in 1558 and died 60 years later.

A bizarre aside is his alter ego, "Master Paul the Venetian", of which he is called and attributed as being Paolo by new age waves of Theosophists and referenced a lot in the 20th century in those books as Paolo being his final incarnation..(?)

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Our third figure is Father Paul, the Venetian (1552-1623) (The Letters of Father Paul, 1693.) He was also known as Friar Paul and is said to have produced several treatises, one of his most acclaimed according to these sources was one on how to rule.
He is also, apparently, Paolo Sarpi, even his Wikipedia article references many books about Father Paul the Venetian.

(Top half: History of the Council of Trent, 1676, bottom half, the Treatise from 1736 which contains a version of "The life of Father Paul")

His final words as quoted by Wikipedia are in some of these books as well,
"His last words, "Esto perpetua" ("may she [i.e., the republic] live forever"), were recalled by John Adams in 1820 in a letter to Thomas Jefferson, when Adams "wished 'as devoutly as Father Paul for the preservation of our vast American empire and our free institutions', as Sarpi had wished for the preservation of Venice and its institutions."" Of note is that this is Wikipedia's spin on his words.

Left to right: History of the Council of Trent, 1676, bottom half, the Treatise from 1736 which contains a version of "The life of Father Paul"

Friar Paul, also known as Paul the Venetian also had an assassination attempt on him ordered by Pope Paul V., and made some discoveries on the anatomy of the heart
Images from Fra Paolo Sarpi The Greatest of the Venetians By Alexander Robertson · 1894

Sources:

Fra Paolo Sarpi The Greatest of the Venetians By Alexander Robertson · 1894
Paul the Pope and Paul the Friar 1861
The Critical Review, Or, Annals of Literature 1807, quote "of Paul, the Venetian, whose two journies were accomplished in 1250 and 1270"
Lectures on Natural and Experimental Philosophy by George Adams, 1807
A Philosophical and Political History of the Settlements and Trade of the Europeans in the East and West Indies Volume 6 By abbé Raynal (Guillaume-Thomas-François) · 1804
Encyclopaedia; Or, A Dictionary of Arts, Sciences, and Miscellaneous Literature; Constructed on a Plan, by which the Different Sciences and Arts are Digested Into the Form of Distinct Treatises of Systems ... [& Supplement] Volume 19 1803
The Works of James Harris Volume 2 By James Harris · 1801
Supplement. Vol.I. Being Volume XIX of Encyclopædia Britannica ... (Supplement to the Encyclopædia Britannica ... By George Gleig ... Vol.II.). 1800
A Philosophical and Political History of the Settlements and Trade of the Europeans in the East and West Indies, 1788
The History of the World, Ecclesiastical and Civil, 1703
The Mahumetane Or Turkish Historie, Containing Three Bookes ... 1600

A Treatise Of Ecclesiastical Benefices And Revenues (Paolo Sarpi 1736)​

The Whole Works of the Reverend Mr. John Flavel ... By John Flavel · 1701
THE GREAT HISTORICAL, Geographical and Poetical DICTIONARY, 1694
The LETTERS Of the renowned FATHER PAUL, Counsellor of State To the most Serene Republick of Venice; And Author of the Excellent History of the Councii of Trent. (1693)
A New History of Ecclesiastical Writers - 1699, quote "Mark Paul, a Venetian, son of Nicholas Paul"
Of Idolatry: a Discourse In which is Endeavoured a Declaration Of, Its Distinction from Superstition; Its Notion, Cause, Commencement, and Progress 1678
The History of the Council of Trent: Containing Eight Books. In which Besides the Ordinary Acts of the Council are Declared Many Notable Occurrences which Happened in Christendom, During the Space of Forty Years and More ... 1676
The Voyages & Travells of the Ambassadors .. 1669, quote "Marco Paulo Veneto, Mark Paul Veneto, ''Zipangry'' "

Additional sources:
The Universal Magazine of Knowledge and Pleasure ... Volumes 12-13 1753
The History of the Reformation and Other Ecclesiastical Transactions .. 1722

 

[Hermolaus]

Thank you for your extensive insights, Gold. I would be interested in you telling me some things in private, as you mentioned. I'm thirsty for knowledge.

Very interesting stuff about Paul the Venetian, I had no idea that there is a new age cult surrounding this figure!

Regarding the Zodiac and its control over human fate, I'll give you an interesting somewhat related quote:

As all processes of production, knowledge is historical. In any given epoch, knowledge is formulated, structured, and filtered through what we might call “dominants” (following Fort) or “paradigms” (following Kuhn and Feyerabend). In his post-structuralist epistemology, Foucault coined the term “epistemes” to denote them. These are over-arching epistemic frameworks which, mostly unconsciously, limit the types of theories that can be developed within the context of them.

Wittgenstein would have called the mesh of these frameworks “hinge propositions” or propositions upon which all others hinge within the context of one or another “language game.” Different language games hinge on different propositions remaining unquestioned. Where this becomes hard for most people to swallow, especially those who fancy themselves scientifically-minded individuals, is when one recognizes that the most fundamental axioms in mathematics and the so-called “laws” of physics are nothing more than hinge propositions in another language game. They have nothing to do with “reality.” In a different language game, the zodiacal constellations of Astrology or the archetypal symbols of the Tarot more effectively describe how the world works — which is not at all to say that these matrices of meaning are any more “real” or veridical. Feyerabend shocked the intellectual community when he argued this, even though Fort had preceded him by about half a century in making essentially the same point. (Jason Reza Jorjani, "Erosophia")

I'll leave you to your own interpretation of this quote. I hope for more discussion, glad to see someone who I can engage with in greater length in this thread.

 

[Gold]

Here is some more information of Marco Polo and his adventures with the Mongols,

View attachment 31850​

View attachment 31851​

And here is Marco Polo mentioning Prester John, where his kingdom (encompassing Argon?) may have laid, that it contained many kingdoms including Tibet and Tancguth (Tangut?) and that he was known as the King of Slaves. He identifies Prester John as "Und Khan" (Ong Khan or Togrhul, of the Keraites) and apparently he was killed by Genghis Khan or fled.

The following images from History of the World:

In conclusion:

Right away, Marco Polo and Paolo Veronese share a very similar depiction. Even Father Paul has some resemblance although more aged. Father Paul and Paolo Veronese also share not only very similar names and monikers (Paul the Venetian) but were alive in the same period. I could find very little on Paolo Veronese in books, but it's noted that Father Paul or Sarpi was a polymath. He is referred to as "Paul the Venetian" in several sources from the 1600s to the 1800s, as is Marco Polo/Mark Paul. All such given the moniker Paul the Venetian are depicted as renowned men of vast talent and intellect. I have no idea why new age cults are worshipping Paolo as "Master" Paul, this is a trend that appears out of nowhere around the 20th century, if anything I would imagine them to be referring to Friar Paul.

Marco Polo and Paulo Veronese share a very strong resemblance, if we are to trust any of these depictions. It's curious that the oldest depiction of Marco Polo dates back to the time of Paolo Veronese and Friar Paul, which is of course the further back almost all artifacts of the past are found, then later dated back upwards of centuries. Is there a connection between these 3 men? Could they be one in the same, their accomplishments split between three individuals, or all fabricated? All three men arguably having ties to the church in the case of Marco Polo and Paolo Veronese whose religious paintings would've garnered him attention from them. Is this another situation of one person occupying multiple historical spaces as suspected of the Popes being emperors in an older thread by KD?

I'm not outright saying Marco Polo and Paolo Veronese are the same person but the resemblance is striking if all the portraits are to be believed. Same nose, same ears, same beard, same hairline, different age. Friar Paul looking a bit different and even more aged, but still sharing some resemblance despite the difference in facial hair.

Marco Polo's travels in the far north are worth another thread too.
Here's a bonus excerpt from KD's blog

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Thank you for your extensive insights, Gold. I would be interested in you telling me some things in private, as you mentioned. I'm thirsty for knowledge.

Very interesting stuff about Paul the Venetian, I had no idea that there is a new age cult surrounding this figure!

Regarding the Zodiac and its control over human fate, I'll give you an interesting somewhat related quote:



I'll leave you to your own interpretation of this quote. I hope for more discussion, glad to see someone who I can engage with in greater length in this thread.

Yes, I agree with that quote on the illusory nature of everything. I'll have to look into the gematria thing and Latin as well.

 

[Broken Agate]

I was looking at pictures of St. Lawrence Island, thinking you'd never know there was a civilization there, when I came across this photo. Of course, it's labeled as a "natural formation," but anyone here would recognize it as a castle, fried and melted nearly to unrecognizability in the cataclysm that destroyed the old world. Scientists and historians have to say it's natural or else all of their precious theories fall apart. Aerial views of the island show hundreds of pockmarks, lakes, and pools everywhere. It was bombed to oblivion, maybe to hide the fact that it was the original Japan? (I found the picture on this page, where you can see more photos taken from an airplane: Gambell and St. Lawrence Island, August 2001)



Bomb craters or natural lakes? Note the faint X-shaped marking at the upper left. Traces of former roads? I wonder what people saw in the past, when the old maps were made showing built-out, advanced cities everywhere.

Very interesting stuff about Paul the Venetian, I had no idea that there is a new age cult surrounding this figure!

He seems like a rather random, obscure figure around which to base a cult or following. I never even heard of him till now, certainly never learned of him in school. Not so obscure, I guess, to the guys who passed his stories down to the present generation.

 

[Gold]

I was looking at pictures of St. Lawrence Island, thinking you'd never know there was a civilization there, when I came across this photo. Of course, it's labeled as a "natural formation," but anyone here would recognize it as a castle, fried and melted nearly to unrecognizability in the cataclysm that destroyed the old world. Scientists and historians have to say it's natural or else all of their precious theories fall apart. Aerial views of the island show hundreds of pockmarks, lakes, and pools everywhere. It was bombed to oblivion, maybe to hide the fact that it was the original Japan? (I found the picture on this page, where you can see more photos taken from an airplane: Gambell and St. Lawrence Island, August 2001)

View attachment 31915

Bomb craters or natural lakes? Note the faint X-shaped marking at the upper left. Traces of former roads? I wonder what people saw in the past, when the old maps were made showing built-out, advanced cities everywhere.

View attachment 31916


He seems like a rather random, obscure figure around which to base a cult or following. I never even heard of him till now, certainly never learned of him in school. Not so obscure, I guess, to the guys who passed his stories down to the present generation.

I have to look more into the placing of Japan older maps as some from roughly the same period have it next to Korea but it's shape is nothing like it is now (it's usually rounded) and it's far too close to the middle of the Bering Strait to be simple distortion or bad mapping or something. I don't really believe that any of the maps were just straight up bullshitting us even if there's always inaccuracies expected in everything. I noted that St. Lawrence looked porous and fucked up in the same way Siberia did, which might be believable if they were neighbors.

As far as the weird cult take on Paul, I don't know where that comes from but it struck me as odd that there's a weird cult worshiping a master painter who appears out of nowhere and disappears all the same, who looks very similar to the other two Pauls who have the same titled of "The Venetian". A title like that isn't much on its own but I couldn't really find anything at all about him from anything near the time period he was supposed to exist in.

 

[Gold]

A correction for the caption in the first image in the OP:
It reads
"Japan insula, a M. Paulo Veneto zipangri dicta, olim Chryse, a Magno Cham olim bello petita sed frustra."
Which translates to
"The island of Japan, called zipangri by M. Paulus Veneto, formerly Chryse, once claimed by the Great Cham in war but in vain."
Which adds interesting context to old depictions of Japanese emperors KD brought up a while ago.

 

[Frostychud]

SH Archive - Bodhidharma: The blue eyed Devil. Was there an effort by this man and others to re-civilize mankind after the flood?

This older post is of interest here.

 

[ParanthropusSlam]

M. Pauli Veneti mentioned on a 1597 map of "Terra Australis"

https://www.raremaps.com/gallery/detail/41532/chica-sive-patagonica-et-australis-terra-mdc-

 

[Gold]

M. Pauli Veneti mentioned on a 1597 map of "Terra Australis"

View attachment 32106​

View attachment 32107​

https://www.raremaps.com/gallery/detail/41532/chica-sive-patagonica-et-australis-terra-mdc-

Very interesting, I'll have to look at it later. Seems even they had conflicting ideas on if "Australis" was the modern continent of Antarctica (as we know it) or was a border land separating us from other continents. Immediately, the Philippines and New Guinea stand out and the Philippines is a bit near Australia. The question is if modern day Australia is still connected to "Antarctica" and why they depict greater Australia as similar to Antarctica now. This contradicts some maps from the time and later ones like the Nazi moon map and possibly the moon map from the same century. We got any old maps from before 1500 showing anything similar to the Nazi moon map? It's possible the "terra incognita" part of your map is a placeholder assuming it's a continent similar to Antarctica before re-discovering it's a wall.

Who knows? Maybe "Multiple temperate Antarcticas" was right. I'll translate that map later.