SH Archive 19th Century Victorian Balls: where are the photos?

[KD Archive]

Balls were particularly popular during the Victorian era (1837-1901). It was a time when society was governed by strict moral precepts, and legions of guides were published on how to behave correctly, how to dress appropriately and what to say in various specific situations. Manuals on etiquette and dancing also abounded.

• Balls (In the 19th and Early 20th Centuries)
• Victorian Ball | How to Have a Victorian Ball
• Balls Victorian Era: Victorian Ballroom Dancing, Music and Dance
• Balls and Soirees
• 19th Century Social Dance
• The ball

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This drawing above is as close as it gets, as far as resembling a photograph goes. The most of the remaining images look similar to the one below. It appears that drawings and paintings are the only visual representation we have.

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KD: We know that 19th century Victorian Balls were pretty popular. We also know that photography did exist between 1850 and 1900.

• Question: Where are the photographs? Do we have at least one? May be I searched it all wrong.
  • Could it be that these balls were a bit harder to recreate when compared to the "Civil War" photographs?

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[dreamtime]

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Username: dreamtime
Date: 2019-03-07 18:37:56
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fascinating idea. I googled for answers and found this thread, lol.

 

[KD Archive]

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Username: KorbenDallas
Date: 2019-03-07 20:05:09
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I think figuring out the reasons why we are missing things like this one, as well as:

• 19th century photographs of the US Government in session prior to 1865. Where are they?
• Where were US flags prior to the Civil War?

could shed some light on some of the 19th century mystery.

 

[Archive]

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Username: tupperaware
Date: 2019-03-08 01:22:57
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I think figuring out the reasons why we are missing things like this one, as well as:

• 19th century photographs of the US Government in session prior to 1865. Where are they?
• Where were US flags prior to the Civil War?

could shed some light on some of the 19th century mystery.

Probably because indoor shots at the time even with ballroom lighting required 20 seconds or so for a decent image which was impractical for so many people "typically" at a victorian ball. Artificial lighting from touch powder magnesium powder or whatever they used back then would not have worked either.

 

[KD Archive]

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Username: KorbenDallas
Date: 2019-03-08 01:28:55
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Probably because indoor shots at the time even with ballroom lighting required 20 seconds or so for a decent image which was impractical for so many people "typically" at a victorian ball. Artificial lighting from touch powder magnesium powder or whatever they used back then would not have worked either.

I doubt this is the case:

• Rare Photos of American Hotels From Between the 1860s and 1890s

It appears that our understanding of the 19yj century photography is way off:

• A Brooklyn chemist's 1800s photos capture New York in motion
• 1878-1884 Photography in Motion

 

[Archive]

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Username: tupperaware
Date: 2019-03-08 04:33:25
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I doubt this is the case:

• Rare Photos of American Hotels From Between the 1860s and 1890s

It appears that our understanding of the 19yj century photography is way off:

• A Brooklyn chemist's 1800s photos capture New York in motion
• 1878-1884 Photography in Motion

The rare hotel photos show what looks like many large windows midday. But assuming you are right and something is amiss maybe its related to "depopulation" and there not being any Victorian Balls because there were not enough people for that.

 

[BStankman]

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Username: BStankman
Date: 2019-03-09 11:22:26
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Probably because indoor shots at the time even with ballroom lighting required 20 seconds or so for a decent image which was impractical for so many people "typically" at a victorian ball. Artificial lighting from touch powder magnesium powder or whatever they used back then would not have worked either.

Come on now. These are like some kind of prom photos taken at the ball.

Costume Ball 4: Ladies only
Fancy Dress 1897: the Duchess of Devonshire’s Diamond Jubilee Ball
Back to the party: the Duchess of Devonshire’s Costume Ball 1897
Party time again: Costume Ball 1897

Take a look for yourself.
They obviously did not want the god fearing commoners to see what debauchery was going on.

eyes wide shut

 

[Archive]

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Username: tupperaware
Date: 2019-03-09 18:42:59
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Come on now. These are like some kind of prom photos taken at the ball.

Costume Ball 4: Ladies only
Fancy Dress 1897: the Duchess of Devonshire’s Diamond Jubilee Ball
Back to the party: the Duchess of Devonshire’s Costume Ball 1897
Party time again: Costume Ball 1897

Take a look for yourself.
They obviously did not want the god fearing commoners to see what debauchery was going on.

View attachment 18662

eyes wide shut

View attachment 18655View attachment 18657View attachment 18658View attachment 18659View attachment 18660View attachment 18661

I think the Magicians of Light at the Ball wanted to be in complete control of a photo and they certainly are in these portraits. The same kind of image quality for an entire ballroom filled with people would take probably one hundred times more "synchronized" flash lighting. That would be around 10 lbs of magnesium flash powder.

A short history of flash photography

You are right about the debauchery. I zoomed into one of the photos and found an obvious Sheela na gig image lurking in the shadows.

 

[KD Archive]

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Username: KorbenDallas
Date: 2019-03-10 01:25:07
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With kings and queens attending those Balls, they could afford 10 tons of magnesium if they needed. But I don't think they needed any magnesium.

• Mysterious illuminations of the 18-19 centuries — Тарт-ария.инфо
• Illumination in celebration of the Marriage of the Dauphin Louis and Marie-Antoinette. Or not...
• Vauxhall Gardens Fireworks and Illuminations
• 1896 Illumination on the occasion of the celebration of the sacred coronation of Emperor Nicholas II
• The History of the Light Bulb

Additionally: The arc light (or “electric candle”) was invented and demonstrated by Sir Humphry Davy in 1802 in England. Davy, who can be considered the true founder of electric lighting, discovered that a blinding white light was produced by hooking up two charcoal rods to a battery, and bringing them very close together.

Then, in 1840 W.R. Grove invented one of the first incandescent electric lights, which was later perfected by Thomas Edison.

In 1876 Pavel Yablochkov invents the Yablochkov candle.

Yablochkov candles illuminating Music hall on la Place du Chateau d'eau ca 1880

Pavel Nikolayevich Yablochkov - Engineering and Technology History Wiki

I just picked a few.

 

[Archive]

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Username: AmorDeCognos
Date: 2019-04-23 05:40:33
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Not a ball, but seems to be a large banquet. From a set of St. Petersburg photos. Handwritten caption says 1893:

Photo from album "Санкт-Петербург. Часть 74" on Yandex.Disk

 

[JWW427]

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Username: JWW427
Date: 2019-09-15 15:51:07
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Its quite possible photographers were not invited to balls simply because royals and celebs and rich folks did not want pictures of themselves in the press or elsewhere. Just like today, many illuminati "balls" are severely private.
Just a thought.
JWW

 

[KD Archive]

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Username: KorbenDallas
Date: 2019-09-15 16:47:28
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Its quite possible photographers were not invited to balls simply because royals and celebs and rich folks did not want pictures of themselves in the press or elsewhere. Just like today, many illuminati "balls" are severely private.
Just a thought.
JWW

Personally, I do not see this as a possibility. The amount of the balls of various scales all over the world was in ridiculous numbers.

This is not the only type of events photographic proof of which we are missing. There are only so many possible explanations for this lack of evidence extending beyond mere plausibility.

 

[JWW427]

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Username: JWW427
Date: 2019-09-15 18:32:49
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Given that, KD, we must assume the negatives were all destroyed.
The question is why?
A ball is a fancy ritual, a tradition, a social must-do, sizing up the mating competition, business and pleasure. Preening and prancing. War of the sexes.
Male vs. male one-upmanship with much drink.
Lets keep looking for at least one photo.
JWW

Wait, I found one and colorized it! 1886.

The High Victorian Era By 1870, social dances were now those of one's parents, or even grandparents. The ballroom was slowly becoming the domain of high society's Old Guard. As dancing become less exciting, fewer people devoted themselves to mastering the full repertoire of dances. One-by-one, the Mazurka, Schottische, Redowa and Polka began to fade. Dance masters formed professional associations in an attempt to save their trade, but these organizations mostly resulted in the standardization and codification of dance steps, which further dampened the public's enthusiasm. Dance masters invented dozens of new steps in an attempt to revive interest, but the public remained largely indifferent. High society balls shifted their emphasis to the "German" parlor cotillion games, featuring expensive favors (prizes). Middle class public balls saw the great variety of dances dwindle to just two: the Waltz and Two-Step. By the end of the century, dancers were ready for something completely different. After centuries of innovations created by European leaders of society, they would not have guessed that the next wave of popular dance and music would come from America's lower classes.

 

[Archive]

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Username: Satsujinki
Date: 2019-09-15 18:36:15
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Victorian Balls...Victorian Era. Could these have been exclusive to victors of a great war?

 

[Archive]

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Username: Banta
Date: 2019-09-16 04:57:26
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Given that, KD, we must assume the negatives were all destroyed.

Or you had to check your camera (and dignity maybe) at the door? ... Or they didn't really ever happen? Maybe that's how you dress when you get on the ship to the Undying Lands?

 

[igneous]

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Username: igneous
Date: 2020-05-10 12:19:17
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source: A Victorian Fancy Dress Ball: Popular Costumes of the Late 19th Century

I got excited when I found this:



"Keys to history
Where's Waldo? He is among the multitude of people in this composite photograph, which was created by cutting out the many individual portraits which were then pasted onto a painted backdrop. This composite photograph represents a skating carnival organized in Montreal on March 5, 1881. Like most carnivals immortalized in a composite photograph, it hosted a dignitary, the Marquis de Lorne, Governor General of Canada.

We can see in the background the ice cave lit from the inside by gas jets creating colorful flames. According to newspapers at the time, the effect was not as dramatic as it appears here. The ice pillars had melted a lot, and plaster of Paris had been added to the ceiling to give the illusion of a blanket of snow.

The multicolored costumes brightly lit by electric light provide a stark contrast to conventional social gatherings, making costume balls so memorable for those who attend. Newspaper articles which give a full account of them often describe these events as "kaleidoscopic".

References
Montreal Herald , March 7, 1881.

• WHAT
  This composite photograph by Notman and Sandham represents some of the hundreds of people who attended the skating carnival in 1881, and who were photographed individually in the following weeks.
• OR
  The carnival takes place in Montreal, at the Victoria ice rink. Many other Canadian cities also have a Victoria ice rink, named after the Queen.
• WHEN
  In 1881, taking a photograph of a large group was practically impossible because of the long exposure time required. Composite photographs are therefore a good way to commemorate events attended by a large number of people.
• WHO
  The Marquis de Lorne, Governor General of Canada, appears in the lower right corner of the photo, next to a young woman holding a drum. He wears ordinary winter clothes, dark in color.

Well that seems like a lot of work.

https://novascotia.ca/archives/notman/archives.asp?ID=938

THIS is a fantastic shot from 1883 but I cannot copy it to put in this commentary. It might be me but even screenshotting doesn't work.



It is not clear when this is taken, maybe 1903 which puts it out of range for this discussion, but it is neat and I think it adds context to how popular and important these things were:

https://histrf.ru/biblioteka/b/posliednii-bal-romanovykh

(I had to google translate from Russian to English to understand the text)

There were, apparently, A LOT of balls around 1903 in St. Petersburgh.



This fits the period (1876) but again, it is a composite image as per the source:

https://thediscoverblog.com/2014/07/17/william-james-topleys-fancy-dress-ball-photographs/



1878 - Source:

http://collection.mccord.mcgill.ca/en/collection/artifacts/II-51688?Lang=1&accessnumber=II-51688



1896 -
https://todayinottawashistory.wordpress.com/2015/06/13/lady-aberdeens-historical-fancy-dress-ball/

After an hour of searching, only a handful of photos. I will leave it to others to discuss further as I found it very odd - there are strange gaps with regards to specific years and specific countries. Does it mean anything?

 

[Archive]

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Username: Starmonkey
Date: 2020-05-10 14:35:12
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Now some photos of congregations in cathedrals back then? Or an audience at the Trocadero or other old concert halls?

 

[igneous]

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Username: igneous
Date: 2020-05-10 16:16:54
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Now some photos of congregations in cathedrals back then? Or an audience at the Trocadero or other old concert halls?

It's strange that it is listed as a fancy dress ball (the last one) but you are quite right - they are in a church and it is some sort of procession.