SH Archive Cathars- Beliefs of the Historical Heritics

[Septimus]

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Username: Septimus
Date: 2020-08-03 21:41:38
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Redeeming sacrifice of JC, and that he came in the flesh,
most of the Old Testament

I never understood why Protestants (and maybe Catholics) emphasized the Son of Man flesh aspect of Jesus. Like if he has come to save humanity, is it really necessary for him to be 100% of human substance? Now seeing this Cathar belief of hologram Jesus, it makes more sense that this Son of Man emphasis may have been created as a counter to that argument.

And funny enough, having spent 20 years in a Protestant church, they never once mentioned the Cathars. And seldom, we would hear offhanded remarks about how the Gnostics were wrong, yet they were martyred just like the conventional early Christians (they would argue that they rightfully deserved it...).

 

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Username: Balibrew
Date: 2020-08-04 10:04:13
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Cathars have fascinated me for a while now, I do feel a deep connection with their philosophy, or what can be gleamed of it. I did my uni dissertation on early heresy, dissent and reform in the early middle ages but decided my timescale was pre-Cathar so I didn't include them. Such a shame, I could have learned things much quicker about what was going on if I knew more of their story.

I found this one interesting when I saw it a couple years ago or so:
Apparently in the early 1960s there was a seemingly mass reincarnation of Cathars in the Bath area. At least, I think maybe up 20 people claimed to have visions/dreams and vivid memories of specific people and details. I myself still feel very very bitter about what happened in Beziers.

This should be a great thread, looking forward to learning anything more about them.

I read one of his books which concerned using past life regression therapy on a number of his patients who related past lives as Cathars, he lived in the north of England. Is this who you mean?
Arthur Guirdham (1905–1992) was an English physician, psychiatrist, novelist, and writer on the Cathar sect, alternative medicine, ESP and reincarnation.

 

[Archive]

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Username: dejavu
Date: 2020-08-05 22:37:36
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@studytruth, thank you so much for helping me establish a good foundation to work from and answering my questions through emails. I think I have a better sense of Rex Mundi and the Matrix reality so I look forward to learning more about these people/groups, what they believed and why they were persecuted for it.

Dream, Wee
I agree totally with what you are saying. I have studied Old Egypt for two decades...not Old Kingdom Egypt, but who was there even before them- the ones who built the pyramids and megalithic structures.
And I am pretty sure that the Cathars were in some way in touch with the same basic knowledge, but instead of building pyramids they were using their energy to build something else- perhaps whatever the grail actually is (video on that coming in a few weeks).
And it might not be all are "reincarnated Cathars" but that so many here on SH, are linked to these old times when the Earth was very different, the Golden Age of the ancient myths, and we can see that the CAthars were one of the last points of that light in the timeline (whenever they lived). I think something about what they believed, their courage in the face of persecution, and that they seemed to live a Truth we all wish that we could. I think that is the draw for so many, a "Cathar-like" mind.

This angle fascinates me. I'm really interested to see how Old Egypt connects so I'm hoping you will touch more on this too.

Wrote about them here: The Jesus of the Gospels

I believe that the Cathars and other groups tried to preserve the Pre-Fall knowledge and state of being.

Before the Fall of mankind into darkness, life on earth was without evil. Not only in a esoteric kind of way but people were simply living in accordance and harmony with their environment.

After the Fall, whatever it was, there were two groups: those who were infected with evil, and those who tried to resist. Our entire history can be read in the light of the first group destroying the latter, and most evidence of their existence.

And it was always about groups of people. Humans can only thrive in groups, and if we want to re-connect with ourselves we need to organize harmonious communities.

I checked out the post link you provided. You have some well thought out and interesting ideas. Thanks sharing them on this thread.

Most sources say the following;

20,000 men, women and children massacred in Beziers, France by a force of 300,000 Crusaders in one day in 1209

Twenty years later, up to one million had been killed, including Waldenses and some Catholics.

Rejected :
Hellfire,
the Trinity,
the Virgin Birth,
Purgatory,
Redeeming sacrifice of JC, and that he came in the flesh,
most of the Old Testament

Believed in :
Immortality of the soul,
Reincarnation,
Apocryphal texts,
Heaven
Gnosticism
Corruption of Catholic Church from scripture
Rites and Ceremonies
Balkan or Manichean Dualism – or anti-clericalism (debated)
most of New Testament,


Had :
two classes, The Perfects (priests), and Believers,
Use of Bible in the Lange'doc (regional language) – presumably through the Waldenses


What is interesting to my mind, is that the massacres initially stopped in 1229, and this was the same year as the Council of Toulouse, which was a ban on all scriptural books unless they were books of Liturgy, and in the Latin language. This council came 2 years after a similar one in Narbonne. The inquisition then started 5 years later.

The Waldenses had different beliefs to the Cathars, such as the Trinity, and the redeeming sacrifice of JC, rejection of the priesthood, together with the fact that they preached their faith, and many abandoned their wealth. Yet both faiths were killed /persecuted up to 1229. This says to me, that it was the use of their own bible that was the problem. I'm not sure what the percentage of the million killed was in terms of Cathars, but it was called the Albigensian or Cathar Crusade. These two groups definitely were forerunners to the reformation.

Thank you for this. Interesting how you connect this to use of their own bible. Good to keep this in mind as I go through the thread.

I never understood why Protestants (and maybe Catholics) emphasized the Son of Man flesh aspect of Jesus. Like if he has come to save humanity, is it really necessary for him to be 100% of human substance? Now seeing this Cathar belief of hologram Jesus, it makes more sense that this Son of Man emphasis may have been created as a counter to that argument.

And funny enough, having spent 20 years in a Protestant church, they never once mentioned the Cathars. And seldom, we would hear offhanded remarks about how the Gnostics were wrong, yet they were martyred just like the conventional early Christians (they would argue that they rightfully deserved it...).

Septimus, reading your comment related to the Cathar belief of hologram Jesus made me think of the "hologram Jesus" that I've seen discussed related to some project blue beam or something like that. I'm not sure yet how a hologram Jesus would have been possible or depicted back in the day, tbh, but if that was something that was accepted then, I wonder if that might play a part in a more modern version of it and the accompanying narrative that may be used, if, in fact, it happens. Wonder if it's just a misunderstood concept? This thread is fascinating yet confusing at the same time...

 

[Archive]

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Username: studytruth
Date: 2020-08-06 15:11:45
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Thanks for the post dejavu,
Just so the rest of you knows what is being referred to above about Rex Mundi, I mentioned in a private message that one way of looking at how the Cathars can see Rex Mundi is as the architect of the Matrix, the entire program as well as all of the creations within it. Rex Mundi is both the creator of and the very Matrix itself.

 

[JimDuyer]

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Username: Jim Duyer
Date: 2020-08-08 18:33:46
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Are you the guy in this video? If not, quote marks on your post may be in order to show the words are those of the guy in the video.

That said, the video was very informative regarding the cathars. I knew they were considered heretical by the RCC (wasn't everyone?) but didn't know exactly what they believed. Strange mixture of Buddhist beliefs, native American nature "worship" and belief in Jesus (2, actually) without the virgin birth, death or resurrection aspects.

Since they were pacifists and not hurting anyone, I don't know why the RCC would target them for extinction but, due to their beliefs, they made easy targets. Maybe their eclectic blend of global belief systems would have caused people to question how they came to know of global beliefs? Plus, they were nihilists that welcomed death believing this world was the only hell and that producing children was a sin (complete opposite of RCC).

It seems unlikely they would have any written record of their existence or beliefs since they didn't think you should take one thing from nature to make something else (books/paper from trees, etc.).
What we know of the Cathars comes from Inquisition records which the guy in the video equates to knowing about Jews only through Nazi records (good analogy).

Looking forward to his further revelations about this strange group that was nearly eradicated from history.

Until the Church had a chance to decide what it did or did not believe in, historically you will find that the idea that Jesus believed in reincarnation, that he may have survived the crucifixion, and that there very well may have not been a virgin birth, were all topics that Christians of that time believed in to some extent. With the various councils, some topics were thereafter called "heretical", that had previously been held true in certain territories of Christian belief. Even some Bishops of Churches were required to renounce what the Church councils had agreed upon, or face very strong consequences.
My own belief system allows Mormans, Catholics, Baptists, Hindus, etc., as long as they are sincere
and don't attempt to push their beliefs on me by force. But everyone's mileage varies.

 

[Rhayader]

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Username: Rhayader
Date: 2020-08-09 06:33:45
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Until the Church had a chance to decide what it did or did not believe in, historically you will find that the idea that Jesus believed in reincarnation, that he may have survived the crucifixion, and that there very well may have not been a virgin birth, were all topics that Christians of that time believed in to some extent. With the various councils, some topics were thereafter called "heretical", that had previously been held true in certain territories of Christian belief. Even some Bishops of Churches were required to renounce what the Church councils had agreed upon, or face very strong consequences.
My own belief system allows Mormans, Catholics, Baptists, Hindus, etc., as long as they are sincere
and don't attempt to push their beliefs on me by force. But everyone's mileage varies.

I believe according to Wilson and Blackett that the idea of ascension was introduced by the Catholics only in the 8th century.

 

[Septimus]

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Username: Septimus
Date: 2020-08-11 04:56:39
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I stumbled upon an interesting Quora post by Kevin Einstein about black cats, which led into the topic at hand: Cathars.

"The Kushite Neteru Het Heru who Europeans called Hathor. Het Heru goes by many different aspects: Half Moon, Baby Cow & also a Cat. There was a group much like the Knights Templar but way more popular called the Cathar!

Now I want get too deep in the ancient Egyptian thing too much, but the Cathars were originally a cult which came from Egypt and started worshiping Hathor as Mary Madeline. They also worshiped other “devilish things” and even put them on their grand monuments they built to spread there new knowledge called cathedrals which were built using sacred geometry used from Egypt!

But if you read up on them they will say they were Dualistic… which is not true. You can’t be Gnostic and Dualistic at the same time! But besides the fact this is where crossing a black cat comes from:

According to legend, Dominic Guzmán became the spiritual father to nine women he had reconciled to the Catholic faith, by miraculously facing down a demonic black cat in the church at Fanjeaux. In later traditions they would become Cathar Perfects converted by his convincing arguments. You can read more here: Similaries and differences between, and criticisms of, the Cathar Church, Catholic Church and Waldensian Church

The Canon church killed off all the Cathars and canonized all their cathedrals and created the Catholic church based on their cathedrals not religion! As I said cathars were cult worshipers of Hathor = Het Heru as their “Christ” who was really Heru (Horus) reborn as a female! There is a lot of knowledge about Cathars if you can get the correct information! Even the link I posted is canonized, but has reference to the Black Cat!"

 

[Archive]

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Username: studytruth
Date: 2020-08-11 07:24:48
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I stumbled upon an interesting Quora post by Kevin Einstein about black cats, which led into the topic at hand: Cathars.

"The Kushite Neteru Het Heru who Europeans called Hathor. Het Heru goes by many different aspects: Half Moon, Baby Cow & also a Cat. There was a group much like the Knights Templar but way more popular called the Cathar!

Now I want get too deep in the ancient Egyptian thing too much, but the Cathars were originally a cult which came from Egypt and started worshiping Hathor as Mary Madeline. They also worshiped other “devilish things” and even put them on their grand monuments they built to spread there new knowledge called cathedrals which were built using sacred geometry used from Egypt!

But if you read up on them they will say they were Dualistic… which is not true. You can’t be Gnostic and Dualistic at the same time! But besides the fact this is where crossing a black cat comes from:

According to legend, Dominic Guzmán became the spiritual father to nine women he had reconciled to the Catholic faith, by miraculously facing down a demonic black cat in the church at Fanjeaux. In later traditions they would become Cathar Perfects converted by his convincing arguments. You can read more here: Similaries and differences between, and criticisms of, the Cathar Church, Catholic Church and Waldensian Church

The Canon church killed off all the Cathars and canonized all their cathedrals and created the Catholic church based on their cathedrals not religion! As I said cathars were cult worshipers of Hathor = Het Heru as their “Christ” who was really Heru (Horus) reborn as a female! There is a lot of knowledge about Cathars if you can get the correct information! Even the link I posted is canonized, but has reference to the Black Cat!"

Thank for the post Sept, just know I am not in any way attacking you here now. You found something and wanted to share it with us. Appreciated. All I want to do now is go through what the original writer is claiming to present about this period and throw some of it to the wall to see what sticks.

The challenge is that he makes a lot of claims without backing it up with anything,just making statements. That makes what he presents challenging.
First off Hathor had 3 forms- form as Hathor wife of Horus, and usually depicted as a cow. The second form is the fire healing lioness Sekhmet, and the third was the cool healing of bastet the black cat. Each are Hathor, or you might say forms of Hathor. Thus in a round about way there is a connection between Hathor and the cat, but it is via Bastet. If anything then the Cathars (from this line of speculation) would be linked to Bastet via the name.
Next he says that you can not be Gnostic and Dualistic at the same time. I don't think he has read very much of the Nag Hammadi documents which are about as dualistic at times as you can get. I can't recall which codexs off hand of course, but I could if I opened up my translations and found those sections.
Next that they worshiped Hathor as Horus reborn as a female. If they truly were descendants of Ancient Egypt they would be clear that Horus-Hathor were a complete pair. Like all things in the manifested world, there must be a dual aspect, a masculine-feminine in this case. They are both and neither at the same time.

Finally he makes his most strange claim, that the cathedrals were built by the Cathars and church you might say later confiscating them. On one level I think that is a knowledge that so many of us here are digging into to understand. Who really built these great structures? It obviously was not who it was claimed to be. But if he says Cathars built them (ok, I would be more inclined to them being Knight's Templar, but ok) that only covers Southern France. Who was building all the other cathedrals around Europe and in fact the world? Were they all Cathars, some brother-sister hood groups, groups not associated with each other?
So you can see he makes some claims that on the surface sound nice until you dig into the- how do you prove some of it. And of course with the ancient world it is almost impossible to prove anything, but it is good to attempt to find a few pieces and facts that sort of seem to support the claim, That is the problem with so much new age type information. All on the nice message, low on anything to back it up. And this stuff about the Cathars is a very much a new age type presentation mostly. It is why I wanted to make my video, to lay out what could be found, and see what had any fact or logic to the presenation and what is sort of still sitting there. Doesn't mean anything is wrong of course, something can be correct even without detailed proof, it just becomes much harder to believe it.
Cheers

 

[JimDuyer]

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Username: Jim Duyer
Date: 2020-08-11 16:23:21
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I stumbled upon an interesting Quora post by Kevin Einstein about black cats, which led into the topic at hand: Cathars.

"The Kushite Neteru Het Heru who Europeans called Hathor. Het Heru goes by many different aspects: Half Moon, Baby Cow & also a Cat. There was a group much like the Knights Templar but way more popular called the Cathar!

Now I want get too deep in the ancient Egyptian thing too much, but the Cathars were originally a cult which came from Egypt and started worshiping Hathor as Mary Madeline. They also worshiped other “devilish things” and even put them on their grand monuments they built to spread there new knowledge called cathedrals which were built using sacred geometry used from Egypt!

But if you read up on them they will say they were Dualistic… which is not true. You can’t be Gnostic and Dualistic at the same time! But besides the fact this is where crossing a black cat comes from:

According to legend, Dominic Guzmán became the spiritual father to nine women he had reconciled to the Catholic faith, by miraculously facing down a demonic black cat in the church at Fanjeaux. In later traditions they would become Cathar Perfects converted by his convincing arguments. You can read more here: Similaries and differences between, and criticisms of, the Cathar Church, Catholic Church and Waldensian Church

The Canon church killed off all the Cathars and canonized all their cathedrals and created the Catholic church based on their cathedrals not religion! As I said cathars were cult worshipers of Hathor = Het Heru as their “Christ” who was really Heru (Horus) reborn as a female! There is a lot of knowledge about Cathars if you can get the correct information! Even the link I posted is canonized, but has reference to the Black Cat!"

Most of what you have repeated above is absolute bull crap. It sounds more like a Miles Mathis Jesuit slander job or a way to alibi for slaughtering 100,000 men women and children (if not more, some figures go to 200,000). You can't assuage guilt by painting your victims in a bad way after the fact, and none of the connections you mention can be proven true. Yes, there were Gnostics in Egypt, and yes, some Egyptians followed their teachings. But there were many more Hebrews in Egypt and thus you have the Sept. Bible.

 

[Septimus]

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Username: Septimus
Date: 2020-08-11 16:46:17
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But if he says Cathars built them (ok, I would be more inclined to them being Knight's Templar, but ok) that only covers Southern France. Who was building all the other cathedrals around Europe and in fact the world?

Is it possible that the Cathars were a much larger group that existed outside of Southern France?

 

[JimDuyer]

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Username: Jim Duyer
Date: 2020-08-11 17:01:58
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Is it possible that the Cathars were a much larger group that existed outside of Southern France?

Catharism was greatly influenced by the Bogomils of the First Bulgarian Empire, and may have also had roots in the Paulician movement in Armenia and eastern Byzantine Anatolia through Paulicians resettled in Thrace (Philipopolis).

Here's the truth. Cathars were part of a group that knew more of the truth about early Christianity than the average group. They had to die in order for the changed versions and modifications made by the leaders of the Church (not for religious reasons, but to make it more acceptable to the masses, which means more worshipers and thus more income and power).

Early church Bishops were very surprised when they were thrown into jails to rot, or killed outright under the label of Heretic, when all they did was question why those changes were being made, and in whose name if not that of Jesus? They were punished for asking why the true story and lessons were being perverted. They had to die as well. Read the history - it's a sad tale and it's all there for anyone with eyes to see.

If you read some of what they say, and not from the lips of wikipedia or the Church, but instead on the site Gnostic.org or any other dedicated to that theme, you may find that some part of you resonates with some parts of what they say. Not all will, because you have been conditioned since early childhood to believe some things that they are pushing (that are not in the spirit of what Jesus taught), and it is very difficult to overcome that mental indoctrination.

I'm not a flaming Gnostic, nor actually any type of Gnostic, because frankly some of their beliefs do not sound like what Jesus told us, but I also don't wish to set them on fire, or anyone else for that matter.
However, some parts of what they say do indeed sound more like what is taught in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John (but leave out anything manufactured by Paul/Saul and there you have it).

 

[JWW427]

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Username: JWW427
Date: 2020-08-11 17:08:17
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I'm not sure we can 100% believe any mainstream historical accounts on the Cathars, because those accounts were probably written by the PTB and religious organizations. I sure don't.
Like the Zoroastrians and Celtic Druids, the Cathars were probably, maybe, most likely (?) practicing peaceful, harmonious, egalitarian ancient pagan beliefs that may have had their origins in the mythical Atlantis, Ultima Thule, and Lemurian Prediluvian high civilizations. Etc, etc. Then they mixed it with pure, ancient Christianity. I'm guessing here, but it makes sense to me.
Many of these groups tried to keep the matriarchal, cosmological, high vibe, and nature worship ancient wisdom alive, and some still do today.



Non-mainstream excerpt:

Secrets of The Cathars - Why the Dark Age Church Was Out to Destroy Them



"From 1208-1244 the first European holocaust was conducted. The Church of Rome savagely attacked the Cathars, the peaceful ‘heretics of the Languedoc’ of Southern France, with a viciousness and detestable arrogance paralleled only by the Nazi atrocities during WW II.

Note: IN WW2, Nazi SS units under Otto Skorzeny were purported to have raided a Cathar castle in Languedoc, France to steal the Holy Grail for Himmler. Books, crystals, scrolls, knowledge, relics). ––JWW

The Cathars called themselves Pure Ones after the Goddess known as the Pure One, their term for the Virgin Great Creator Mother Mari (meaning ‘love’). The reason the Church resorted to the mass murder of hundreds of thousands of Cathars most certainly had to do with their alternative views about Jesus.

They claimed to possess a secret Book of Love (Mari, TARA). This mysterious manuscript is attributed to Jesus who gave it to John the Divine. It was transmitted through the centuries until the Knights Templar and the Cathars adopted it. The Book of Love was the foundation of the Cathar Church of Love or Amor (the reverse of Roma).

The existence of this lost (or hidden) gospel was revealed when the Catholic Church subjected the Cathars and Templar (in 1308) to torture. Its contents were a secret skill (symbolized by the Templar skull) said to grant one the ability to control the forces of nature and to transform ordinary human blood into that of the wise, holy and pure blood of life of the immortal Illi or Illuminati. It is equated with the Holy Grail."

CHILDREN OF ATLANTIS



"According to Budge’s Egyptian Hieroglyphic Dictionary, Ar means, 'to make do, to create, to form, to fashion.' It is the root of Ari, the creative god. In Egyptian, Ari-en means 'made by, produced by the lady of the house’. These definitions shed light on the Cathars and their prominent lady, Mari, their Pure Goddess.

In 1934 (when F.D.R. sent Nick Roerich to Mongolia in search of the Grail) archaeologist Walter Andrea discovered a magnificent 3,200 year-old statue of Mari at the site of her temple in Syria. Called 'The Goddess with a Vase,' Mari is holding a Grail cup and wearing a helmet that Zecharia Sitchin says could make her go far into the universe. She wears a cluster of blue stones at her neck."



Okay, given all that, what are we really seeing here in this Middle Ages Cathar painting?
I personally see benevolent ETs (angels) helping dead Cathars ascend to higher vibrational realms after rough & tough service on hell-hole Earth.
The PTB, a devil creature or demon (A regressive ET influence?), and the Church look on in frustration. ––JWW

 

[Archive]

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Username: dejavu
Date: 2020-08-12 23:40:30
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I'm trying to catch up in following this thread so far. Lots of interesting views. I have a question for anyone who is able to offer insight on this.

The Canon church killed off all the Cathars and canonized all their cathedrals and created the Catholic church based on their cathedrals not religion!

Based on that quote, it seems cathedrals had a significant role to play. I understand not everyone follows this view, but the quote did make me wonder what exactly was their role? Are we talking about their structure design based on sacred geometry and knowledge (which would then suggest that knowledge would be openly shared/practiced within the cathedrals) or is there something else? I'm not clear.

If the Cathars did not build all the cathedrals, then what was their original purpose as it seems they held a different meaning from the current "house of worship" model we have in the here and now. Can someone help me understand this aspect of the discussion? Thanks.

 

[Rhayader]

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Username: Rhayader
Date: 2020-08-13 08:16:56
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I'm trying to catch up in following this thread so far. Lots of interesting views. I have a question for anyone who is able to offer insight on this.



Based on that quote, it seems cathedrals had a significant role to play. I understand not everyone follows this view, but the quote did make me wonder what exactly was their role? Are we talking about their structure design based on sacred geometry and knowledge (which would then suggest that knowledge would be openly shared/practiced within the cathedrals) or is there something else? I'm not clear.

If the Cathars did not build all the cathedrals, then what was their original purpose as it seems they held a different meaning from the current "house of worship" model we have in the here and now. Can someone help me understand this aspect of the discussion? Thanks.

Be sure to check out Fulcanelli's 'Mystery of the Cathedrals' for an alchemical interpretation. I believe the pdf is easily found online. I just found this interesting article about it, which i'm reading now. The Sword in the Stone: Fulcanelli reveals the Secret of the Cathedrals | Vincent Bridges´ Legacy



I couldn't find much online for this yet, so i'll just have to copy this random fb post I found from an unknown author:

"Rosslyn Chapel frequencies, the ark of the covenant, earth measure and 8:9 ratio.

Below I will list some frequencies that if tuned to can assist in tapping into the earth's resonance and Rosslyn Chapel. These can be used for musical tuning to bring about a healing resonance one can meditate to.

Rosslyn chapel was built in the 15th century by William Sinclair. The Sinclair family (who claims blood ties to the Merovingian kings of France who descended from Mary Magdalene) founded the Grand Lodge of Scotland in 1736. Sinclair was said to have arrived in America years before Columbus. For what reason? Here's a thought. There's said to be a grand treasure on Oak Island as you may know, known as the money pit. Oak Island is off the coast of Nova Scotia which translates to "New Scotland." Scotia being the the daughter of the pharaoh Ramses II. She was the queen who founded Scotland. Do you smell the Ark of the Covenant in this aspect of history along the thread of Sinclair-Scotland-New Scotland Oak island treasure? The Ark box resonates at 131 hz (if you base the 2.5 cubit length of the ark box on the 20.63 inch long Royal cubit). If you divide the internal length of Rosslyn Chapel by the speed of sound you get octaves of 131 hz, the same frequency as the ark box wavelength resonance. The choir room in the chapel also has octaves of this same 131 hz resonance. If you convert the amount of time sunlight takes to reach earth into hz you get octaves of 131 hz as well. The stave angel is shown to be holding what's figured to be the A note, B note and C note. 131 hz falls under the note C. The width of the Ark box falls under the note of A. Unsure so far of where the B note is in the chapel or ark box.

Rosslyn chapel is 72 feet long inside and 81 feet long outside. 72/81 is the same ratio octaves as earth circumference/speed of sound. Also same ratio octaves as earth circumference/Planck length. This ratio in its most broken down state is 8 over 9.

Both the Rosslyn chapel and the earth’s circumference relative to speed of sound have this 8:9 ratio but the other common thread is that both are expressing the ratio of the inside compared to the outside. Obvious with the chapel given we’re talking internal length compared to external length. As for the earth expressing this insideutside ratio we can see it like this, earth’s internal ground temperature is avg 68 degrees F causing the speed of sound to be 343-344 meters per second. So 344 meters or so is the “inside” and the outside is earth’s circumference (approx 40,042,754 meters). The circumference divided (outside) divided by the speed of sound based on the internal temp=octaves of 0.8888888 hz and 0.88888 is the ratio 8/9ths (given 8 divided by 9=0.88888). Also an octave of 0.111111, 0.2222222 and 0.4444444 hz. The Planck length (threshold measurement between matter and quantum realm) is octaves of the speed of sound so therefore the equation relative to earth’s circumference brings the same 8:9ths octaves when you put the Planck length in comparison to earth’s circumference.

To summarize, 8:9ths ratio is the ratio of earth’s circumference relative to the speed of sound as well as the ratio between the internal and external length of Rosslyn Chapel and the common thread between the two being 8:9ths being the ratio between the inside and the outside. As I’ve explained before, if you divide the speed of sound (343-344 meters per second) by the internal length of of the chapel you get octaves of 7.83 hz which is the Schumann resonance, aka the heartbeat of the planet.

Below is a visual of what the ratio 8:9ths weaves. That general design is made manifest as an energetic grid of resonance in Rosslyn Chapel given the ratio of its internal length to its external length, and across the world as a sound grid and a Planck length grid all due to the law of sympathetic resonance. If you flip this ratio inside out (9/8 instead of 8/9) then you get octaves of the auspicious number 144. Earth circumference sound frequency (227.555555 hz) divided by Ark box 131.072 hz=octaves of exactly 0.144. 131,072 is the 18th number in the binary sequence (1,2,4,8,16,32,64 etc)."

I understand much of that info probably deserves to be in another thread, but it does relate to the question of cathedrals and not entirely out of sight of what the Cathars were about.

 

[JimDuyer]

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Username: Jim Duyer
Date: 2020-08-13 15:42:17
Reaction Score: 2

I'm trying to catch up in following this thread so far. Lots of interesting views. I have a question for anyone who is able to offer insight on this.



Based on that quote, it seems cathedrals had a significant role to play. I understand not everyone follows this view, but the quote did make me wonder what exactly was their role? Are we talking about their structure design based on sacred geometry and knowledge (which would then suggest that knowledge would be openly shared/practiced within the cathedrals) or is there something else? I'm not clear.

If the Cathars did not build all the cathedrals, then what was their original purpose as it seems they held a different meaning from the current "house of worship" model we have in the here and now. Can someone help me understand this aspect of the discussion? Thanks.

Most of the Cathedrals in France, a strongly Catholic country historically, were built on top of ancient pagan sites. Yes, you can say that it was their way of saying that "we are now the big dogs in town" and yes, you can say that it made sense to place new worship over the top of old sites that the people were used to frequenting, (close to everything, convenient for the attendants), but then you have to ask yourself -
does it make sense? If you truly hated Satan and Satanic worship, and you were truly the opposite of that nonsense - you were the light against that darkness - would you really want to plant a new Church in that soil, which had been "unholy" according to the Church, for centuries?
No, something more was at stake. And if you are still unsure of this idea - just visit the many elaborate underground spaces that they have in those Cathedrals - which makes easy access to unholy ground
possible, and see if you still believe that the ones running it now are not themselves worshiping Satan.

 

[Archive]

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Username: Starmonkey
Date: 2020-08-13 16:05:20
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Definitely SOUND. We know that much is true.
Amplification. Resonance. Layering. Would be really fun to play around in there with OTHER music.
I bet it just magnifies whatever. Was thinking of songs I'd like to hear in there. From the old country. Nothing I'm personally familiar with in my blood lineages, but I happened upon that intense song in LotR that Peregrine Took sang for the bad king in Gondor. Hauntingly familiar and powerful, although not an old song, per se. Unsure if PJ copied an old melody for it. But I bet it would raise the hairs on your neck!
Wasn't paying attention to the tracks and guess we took a divergent but related tack... Off thread thanks to last two posts!

 

[Archive]

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Username: dejavu
Date: 2020-08-14 15:13:12
Reaction Score: 0

Be sure to check out Fulcanelli's 'Mystery of the Cathedrals' for an alchemical interpretation. I believe the pdf is easily found online. I just found this interesting article about it, which i'm reading now. The Sword in the Stone: Fulcanelli reveals the Secret of the Cathedrals | Vincent Bridges´ Legacy



I couldn't find much online for this yet, so i'll just have to copy this random fb post I found from an unknown author:

"Rosslyn Chapel frequencies, the ark of the covenant, earth measure and 8:9 ratio.

Below I will list some frequencies that if tuned to can assist in tapping into the earth's resonance and Rosslyn Chapel. These can be used for musical tuning to bring about a healing resonance one can meditate to.

Rosslyn chapel was built in the 15th century by William Sinclair. The Sinclair family (who claims blood ties to the Merovingian kings of France who descended from Mary Magdalene) founded the Grand Lodge of Scotland in 1736. Sinclair was said to have arrived in America years before Columbus. For what reason? Here's a thought. There's said to be a grand treasure on Oak Island as you may know, known as the money pit. Oak Island is off the coast of Nova Scotia which translates to "New Scotland." Scotia being the the daughter of the pharaoh Ramses II. She was the queen who founded Scotland. Do you smell the Ark of the Covenant in this aspect of history along the thread of Sinclair-Scotland-New Scotland Oak island treasure? The Ark box resonates at 131 hz (if you base the 2.5 cubit length of the ark box on the 20.63 inch long Royal cubit). If you divide the internal length of Rosslyn Chapel by the speed of sound you get octaves of 131 hz, the same frequency as the ark box wavelength resonance. The choir room in the chapel also has octaves of this same 131 hz resonance. If you convert the amount of time sunlight takes to reach earth into hz you get octaves of 131 hz as well. The stave angel is shown to be holding what's figured to be the A note, B note and C note. 131 hz falls under the note C. The width of the Ark box falls under the note of A. Unsure so far of where the B note is in the chapel or ark box.

Rosslyn chapel is 72 feet long inside and 81 feet long outside. 72/81 is the same ratio octaves as earth circumference/speed of sound. Also same ratio octaves as earth circumference/Planck length. This ratio in its most broken down state is 8 over 9.

Both the Rosslyn chapel and the earth’s circumference relative to speed of sound have this 8:9 ratio but the other common thread is that both are expressing the ratio of the inside compared to the outside. Obvious with the chapel given we’re talking internal length compared to external length. As for the earth expressing this insideutside ratio we can see it like this, earth’s internal ground temperature is avg 68 degrees F causing the speed of sound to be 343-344 meters per second. So 344 meters or so is the “inside” and the outside is earth’s circumference (approx 40,042,754 meters). The circumference divided (outside) divided by the speed of sound based on the internal temp=octaves of 0.8888888 hz and 0.88888 is the ratio 8/9ths (given 8 divided by 9=0.88888). Also an octave of 0.111111, 0.2222222 and 0.4444444 hz. The Planck length (threshold measurement between matter and quantum realm) is octaves of the speed of sound so therefore the equation relative to earth’s circumference brings the same 8:9ths octaves when you put the Planck length in comparison to earth’s circumference.

To summarize, 8:9ths ratio is the ratio of earth’s circumference relative to the speed of sound as well as the ratio between the internal and external length of Rosslyn Chapel and the common thread between the two being 8:9ths being the ratio between the inside and the outside. As I’ve explained before, if you divide the speed of sound (343-344 meters per second) by the internal length of of the chapel you get octaves of 7.83 hz which is the Schumann resonance, aka the heartbeat of the planet.

Below is a visual of what the ratio 8:9ths weaves. That general design is made manifest as an energetic grid of resonance in Rosslyn Chapel given the ratio of its internal length to its external length, and across the world as a sound grid and a Planck length grid all due to the law of sympathetic resonance. If you flip this ratio inside out (9/8 instead of 8/9) then you get octaves of the auspicious number 144. Earth circumference sound frequency (227.555555 hz) divided by Ark box 131.072 hz=octaves of exactly 0.144. 131,072 is the 18th number in the binary sequence (1,2,4,8,16,32,64 etc)."

I understand much of that info probably deserves to be in another thread, but it does relate to the question of cathedrals and not entirely out of sight of what the Cathars were about.

Thank you Rhayader. This reminds me of the stuff I came across regarding the Solfeggio Frequencies when I was researching classical music. The more I look into things, the more I think there is something to this, as well as the sound, resonance and amplification properties that @Starmonkey touched on. To me, acoustics in cathedrals seem to elevate vibrations, so what you posted makes sense as likely component of their purpose or use to some degree. Hopefully @studytruth will be able to also add his views on Cathars and Cathedrals as he seemed to suggest there is a connection. In the meantime, I appreciate your info.

Most of the Cathedrals in France, a strongly Catholic country historically, were built on top of ancient pagan sites. Yes, you can say that it was their way of saying that "we are now the big dogs in town" and yes, you can say that it made sense to place new worship over the top of old sites that the people were used to frequenting, (close to everything, convenient for the attendants), but then you have to ask yourself -
does it make sense? If you truly hated Satan and Satanic worship, and you were truly the opposite of that nonsense - you were the light against that darkness - would you really want to plant a new Church in that soil, which had been "unholy" according to the Church, for centuries?
No, something more was at stake. And if you are still unsure of this idea - just visit the many elaborate underground spaces that they have in those Cathedrals - which makes easy access to unholy ground
possible, and see if you still believe that the ones running it now are not themselves worshiping Satan.

Hello Jim. Not sure we are in the same mind completely about what you share but I will say that I have visited numerous cathedrals (in Europe, the Pacific, the Caribbean and here in North America) while visiting different places, so I've had an opportunity to explore first hand, including some underground areas and other sections not open to the general public, which gave me an idea of just how much we don't know about them; however, I didn't have the knowledge I have now so my exploration was not necessarily focused on the things I'm inquiring about. I guess that gives me a reason to keep exploring, which I look forward to. I don't know enough about who built what, where or when and for what purpose, so I appreciate others' views to explore possibilities, even if they are not in agreement with my own. That said, I would like to add these perspectives to the question you pose: would you really want to plant a new Church in that soil, which had been "unholy" according to the Church, for centuries?

Perhaps the people who chose to build on top of that "unholy" ground, as you put it, were desiring to reclaim it? Perhaps it was originally "holy" and someone or someones chose to take it and use it for "unholy" purposes, therefore replacing its original use/purpose? Perhaps the whole of the Earth was once deemed good and holy and as time went on things changed from place to place so there is an element of duality in this existence where there is both in just about every area of our world....i.e., building/constructing over cemeteries or sacred sites of previous people of that area, memorial sites over areas marked by great tragedies/events, reconstruction after devastating natural disasters where people chose to stay and rebuild where they could, and so on. I can see many reasons why people chose to build over "pagan" sites (cathedrals or other structures) because as I understand it, pagan (from the Latin paganus) was the term used by the Roman Catholic Church for those who escaped to the areas just outside the kingdoms because they didn't want to come under Roman rule as kingdoms were taken over. That, to me, does not make pagans evil or Satanic by default, though I do recognize those who self-identify as satanic fall into the pagan label simply because pagan is non-Christian.

I have a strong faith and belief in Jesus and his teachings, as I've noted in various threads when the discussion was related. But I am not an all or nothing person because my experiences show that is not an accurate mindset. I've learned firsthand, not all pagans are bad and not all Churches are good, if we want to use the good/bad terminology, which in itself is limiting, imo. So that is why I am interested in this thread and ask the questions I ask. I hope more will be continued to be shared about the Cathars and their beliefs. Even if we don't know everything, I can learn something new in the process. I appreciate everyone's input, even if I don't necessarily agree with all the points being shared.

 

[JimDuyer]

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Username: Jim Duyer
Date: 2020-08-14 15:43:21
Reaction Score: 1

Thank you Rhayader. This reminds me of the stuff I came across regarding the Solfeggio Frequencies when I was researching classical music. The more I look into things, the more I think there is something to this, as well as the sound, resonance and amplification properties that @Starmonkey touched on. To me, acoustics in cathedrals seem to elevate vibrations, so what you posted makes sense as likely component of their purpose or use to some degree. Hopefully @studytruth will be able to also add his views on Cathars and Cathedrals as he seemed to suggest there is a connection. In the meantime, I appreciate your info.



Hello Jim. Not sure we are in the same mind completely about what you share but I will say that I have visited numerous cathedrals (in Europe, the Pacific, the Caribbean and here in North America) while visiting different places, so I've had an opportunity to explore first hand, including some underground areas and other sections not open to the general public, which gave me an idea of just how much we don't know about them; however, I didn't have the knowledge I have now so my exploration was not necessarily focused on the things I'm inquiring about. I guess that gives me a reason to keep exploring, which I look forward to. I don't know enough about who built what, where or when and for what purpose, so I appreciate others' views to explore possibilities, even if they are not in agreement with my own. That said, I would like to add these perspectives to the question you pose: would you really want to plant a new Church in that soil, which had been "unholy" according to the Church, for centuries?

Perhaps the people who chose to build on top of that "unholy" ground, as you put it, where desiring to reclaim it? Perhaps it was originally "holy" and someone or someones chose to take it and use it for "unholy" purposes, therefore replacing its original use/purpose? Perhaps the whole of the Earth was once deemed good and holy and as time went on things changed from place to place so there is an element of duality in this existence where there is both in just about every area of our world....i.e., building/constructing over cemeteries or sacred sites of previous people of that area, memorial sites over areas marked by great tragedies/events, reconstruction after devastating natural disasters where people chose to stay and rebuild where they could, and so on. I can see many reasons why people chose to build over "pagan" sites (cathedrals or other structures) because as I understand it, pagan (from the Latin paganus) was the term used by the Roman Catholic Church for those who escaped to the areas just outside the kingdoms because they didn't want to come under Roman rule as kingdoms were taken over. That, to me, does not make pagans evil or Satanic by default, though I do recognize those who self-identify as satanic fall into the pagan label simply because pagan is non-Christian.

I have a strong faith and belief in Jesus and his teachings, as I've noted in various threads when the discussion was related. But I am not an all or nothing person because my experiences show that is not an accurate mindset. I've learned firsthand, not all pagans are bad and not all Churches are good, if we want to use the good/bad terminology, which in itself is limiting, imo. So that is why I am interested in this thread and ask the questions I ask. I hope more will be continued to be shared about the Cathars and their beliefs. Even if we don't know everything, I can learn something new in the process. I appreciate everyone's input, even if I don't necessarily agree with all the points being shared.

\

I appreciate the politeness in your reply; it's what one would expect from the people of the beautiful town of Louisville.

No, not all are either good nor bad. There are scoundrels on all sides of the equation.

Yesterday I was translating some very old tablets in cuneiform. I realized that the archaeological authors who published the work, some 60 years ago, and those who followed and made minor adjustments over those many years. also archaeologists along with linguists and historians, were not unintelligent, nor clumsy, nor without training.

So when I find that the name on one line has been changed from one god to another, it piques my interest.
Intentionally, and with full fraud intended, they have changed the name to Nergal, a Sumerian god of renown, from the originally intended, and very very clear name of another god. This is not a simple mistake - the sign they claim looks absolutely nothing like the sign on the tablet. Not even close.
There are other changes as well, all equally indicative of fraud, since they are so blatant.
But they count on the fact that nobody outside of their circles can read these Proto-Sumerian signs.
Wrong.

The result is, that the ones who made the tablet, who were, in my research and with clear evidence, the relatives of Cain, mentioned this god who was "the god of wild animals and wild plants in Eden" as someone whom they hoped would protect the tablet. I would say that this link to the Biblical text would have been something worth publishing, and not hiding. But that's what they have been doing.

Imagine that the ancestors of Cain still hoped for redemption, called on his name with favor, and this is being hidden from us, the ones who ultimately pay their salaries? I don't pay much in taxes now, but I was in the 60% bracket in my earlier working days. So yes, I did pay their salaries, or a portion thereof.

So, scientists hide Biblical truths from the public. The Church hides Biblical truths from the public. The scientists hide Biblical confirmations from the Church, and the Church helps the Jewish folks to hide truths that are not in strict accordance with the Biblical texts. And the common folk? What do we get?

When people ask me why I spend so much time on archaic tablet translations, that's one of the reasons. I search for the truth, wherever it is being hidden. It's refreshing to understand that you do as well.

 

[Archive]

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Username: WeeWarrior
Date: 2020-08-14 16:01:50
Reaction Score: 1

Definitely SOUND. We know that much is true.
Amplification. Resonance. Layering. Would be really fun to play around in there with OTHER music.
I bet it just magnifies whatever. Was thinking of songs I'd like to hear in there. From the old country. Nothing I'm personally familiar with in my blood lineages, but I happened upon that intense song in LotR that Peregrine Took sang for the bad king in Gondor. Hauntingly familiar and powerful, although not an old song, per se. Unsure if PJ copied an old melody for it. But I bet it would raise the hairs on your neck!
Wasn't paying attention to the tracks and guess we took a divergent but related tack... Off thread thanks to last two posts!

Love that song, it does resonate on some ancient level!

Did make me wonder about the Rosslyn Chapel pipe organ and it's role in tuning the entire structure:

That general design is made manifest as an energetic grid of resonance in Rosslyn Chapel given the ratio of its internal length to its external length, and across the world as a sound grid and a Planck length grid all due to the law of sympathetic resonance.

Surely the pipe organ was finely tuned to the building, just look at all that harmonic balance in the stonework...

source

Especially in view of this clip about the restoration of the Rosslyn organ. He changes the type of wood used for the resonance boxes to improve the sound...but I have to wonder how this will affect the entire cathedral structure?

Relevant bit at 2:32

 

[Archive]

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Username: studytruth
Date: 2020-08-14 16:07:03
Reaction Score: 1

Love that song, it does resonate on some ancient level!

Did make me wonder about the Rosslyn Chapel pipe organ and it's role in tuning the entire structure:



Surely the pipe organ was finely tuned to the building, just look at all that harmonic balance in the stonework...

View attachment 51281
source

Especially in view of this clip about the restoration of the Rosslyn organ. He changes the type of wood used for the resonance boxes to improve the sound...but I have to wonder how this will affect the entire cathedral structure?

Relevant bit at 2:32

Hey WeeW,
thanks for stopping by to make this post. Been a fan of yours for several years, have really liked some of the articles you have up on your site...lots of good research there.