SH Archive E PLURIBUS UNUM & The Great Seal of America

[Nostradennis]

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Date: 2020-03-30 06:00:48
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Rejected Designs for the Great Seal of the United States

After they'd completed their work on the Declaration of Independence, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and Benjamin Franklin were chosen by the Continental Congress to work as a committee and submit a seal design for approval.

We have the descriptions of each man's proposed seal from a letter John Adams wrote to his wife, Abigail. Adams suggested an illustration depicting the Choice of Hercules. This Greek allegory has Hercules deciding which path to walk in life by deliberating with the female personifications of Pleasure and Virtue.

JOHN ADAM'S DESIGN

Here's how John Adams described the seal: The Hero (Hercules) resting on his Clubb. Virtue pointing to her rugged Mountain, on one Hand, and perswading him to ascend. Sloth, glancing at her flowery Paths of Pleasure, wantonly reclining on the Ground, displaying the Charms both of her Eloquence and Person, to seduce him into Vice.

THOMAS JEFFERSON'S DESIGN

Jefferson's Front Side of the Great Seal

Thomas Jefferson also suggested allegorical scenes. For the front of the seal: children of Israel in the wilderness, led by a cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night.

Jefferson's Reverse Side of the Great Seal

For the reverse: The two brothers Hengist and Horsa, 5th-century Saxon warriors from Germany, were the legendary leaders of the first Anglo-Saxon settlers in Britain. They came to England as mercenaries to help the Briton tribe defend themselves against the rival tribes of the Picts and Scots.

BENJAMIN FRANKLIN'S DESIGN

"Moses standing on the Shore, and extending his Hand over the Sea, thereby causing the same to overwhelm Pharaoh who is sitting in an open Chariot, a Crown on his Head and a Sword in his Hand. Rays from a Pillar of Fire in the Clouds reaching to Moses, to express that he acts by Command of the Deity.”

The illustration above is based on the committee's revision of the design Benjamin Franklin submitted for the reverse of the seal. Franklin had a similar idea to Jefferson’s and wanted to illustrate a scene from the Exodus of the Israelites. The seal would show Moses parting the Red Sea with Pharaoh and his chariots being overwhelmed by the waters with the motto: Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God. Thomas Jefferson became so enamored with this motto he incorporated it for his own personal seal design.

Thomas Jefferson proposed an edit of Franklin's suggestion which read as follows:

"Pharaoh sitting in an open Chariot, a Crown on his head and a Sword in his hand, passing through the divided Waters of the Red Sea in Pursuit of the Israelites: Rays from a Pillar of Fire in the Cloud, expressive of the divine Presence and Command, beaming on Moses who stands on the shore and extending his hand over the Sea causes it to overwhelm Pharaoh.”
Benjamin Franklin was not happy with the eagle that was eventually chosen, as he explained in a letter to his daughter:
"For my own part I wish the Bald Eagle had not been chosen as the Representative of our Country. He is a Bird of bad moral Character. He does not get his Living honestly. You may have seen him perch’d on some dead Tree near the River, where, too lazy to fish for himself, he watches the Labour of the Fishing Hawk; and when that diligent Bird has at length taken a Fish,... the Bald Eagle pursues him and takes it from him."

Franklin saw the eagle as an avian aristocrat: classy-looking but unconcerned with helping the helpless.

Pierre Eugene Du Simitière Great Seal Design

One of the first actions of the Great Seal Committee was to call on an outside consultant to assist in the task. They picked artist Pierre Eugene Du Simitière, who, like the rest of this committee, was a member of the American Philosophical Society. Du Simitèire was born in Switzerland and was a painter, naturalist, and antiquarian collector. The picture above is what the committee picked for front of the seal, which was a revision of Du Simitèire’s proposal. His use of the Eye of Providence and the motto E pluribus unum are retained as elements in the seal today. The motto E pluribus unum ("out of many, one") is put into context by Du Simitèire's design, which contains a shield with 6 symbols representing the former nations England, Scotland, Ireland, France, the Netherlands and Germany of the colonists.

Lingua franca
A lingua franca, also known as a bridge language, common language, trade language, auxiliary language, vehicular language, or link language, is a language or dialect systematically used to make communication possible between groups of people who do not share a native language or dialect, particularly when it is a third language that is distinct from both of the speakers' native languages.

Latin is a dead language, ie, no longer spoken in everyday use. All of Europe was part of the Holy Roman Empire which lasted roughly one thousand years. Latin was the original language of the Romans and remained the language of imperial administration, legislation, and the military throughout the classical period. In the West it became the lingua franca and came to be used for even local administration of the cities including the law courts. Latin was the legal language of the Holy Roman Empire. The United States of America was founded during the time the Empire was still in effect and logically adopted it as well.

• Rejected Designs for the Great Seal of the United States
• Official Heraldry of the United States
• Our Documents - Original Design of the Great Seal of the United States (1782)
• The Great Seal (1776)
• Lingua franca - Wikipedia
• Ephraim and Manessah | History of the Twelve Tribes of Israel
  
  
  
  Summary
  Of the Original Great Seal's three designers two were of Welsh ancestry, namely Thomas Jefferson and John Adams. The Great Seal designs they presented were rejected for being too complicated.
  
  "The committee members—Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and John Adams—prepared a very complicated design that was promptly tabled by Congress. However, one prominent feature of their design appeared in the design that was originally adopted—the motto E Pluribus Unum, "Out of Many, One."
  
  All three Founding Fathers chose Biblical themes for their designs of the Great Seal. Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson both used the O.T. Book of Exodus for their theme design.
  
  John Adams applies a Greek allegorical theme where Hercules is deciding which path to walk in life by deliberating with the female personifications of Pleasure and Virtue and seems to be the least biblical of the three, or maybe not. Eusebius of Caesarea said that "the Greeks stole any truths they possessed from the more ancient Hebrews (Israelites) when describing his work "Praeparatio evangelica". Knowing that, the John Adams Greek allegory may be alluding to a N.T. theme namely, "for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat". (Matthew vii. 13)
  
  
  
  
  
  
  • 13 stars in a cloud represents the 13 tribes that were under the law of Moses which he received from the cloud
    
    
  • 13 stars, 13 leaves, 13 arrows, 13 stripes, 13 colonies all pointing toward the 13 tribes of Israel
    
    
  • Dan's tribe is the eagle
  
  
  Ephraim is the 13th tribe
  Ephraim was the 13th tribe because he was born after his brother Manasseh. He was born last to Joseph in Egypt, after Manasseh, the 12th tribe. The U.S. flag has 13 stripes, the U.S. originally had 13 colonies, in the U.S. Great Seal we find 13 stars above an eagle, also 13 arrows clutched in his left claw, and an olive branch with 13 leaves in its right claw, with a shield of 13 red and white stripes. The number 13 is associated with Ephraim and with America! Ephraims symbols were an Olive Branch, while his second symbol is a Bundle of Arrows. The first will be last and the last will be first!
  
  In the 13 tribes of Israel remember Jacob, as he was about to die, blessed Joseph's two sons, Manasseh and Ephraim. The blessing that Jacob gave Joseph was that Joseph's two sons would become his sons. This is why they are considered as part of the twelve sons of Jacob or his God-given name Israel.
  
  "And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head." (Genesis 48:17 KJV)
  
  
  **The United States is Ephraim the younger and Manasseh is Great Britain the elder**
  
  "And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations."
  (Genesis 48:19 KJV)
  
  
  
  
  
  E pluribus unum "Out of many, one"

  Out of the many 13 tribes of Israel comes One Nation Under God

  
  
  
  
  FYI
  Apologies in advance. I did not know where to put this. This was carry over and overlap from the Madoc and the Five Civilized Tribes and the United States of Armorica threads that I was working on. Not trying to rain on the OP's thread. Totally in KD's hands. Free to erase the FYI post decision.

 

[Archive]

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Username: dejavu
Date: 2020-03-30 10:24:45
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Rejected Designs for the Great Seal of the United States

After they'd completed their work on the Declaration of Independence, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and Benjamin Franklin were chosen by the Continental Congress to work as a committee and submit a seal design for approval.

We have the descriptions of each man's proposed seal from a letter John Adams wrote to his wife, Abigail. Adams suggested an illustration depicting the Choice of Hercules. This Greek allegory has Hercules deciding which path to walk in life by deliberating with the female personifications of Pleasure and Virtue.

JOHN ADAM'S DESIGN


View attachment 43352

Here's how John Adams described the seal: The Hero (Hercules) resting on his Clubb. Virtue pointing to her rugged Mountain, on one Hand, and perswading him to ascend. Sloth, glancing at her flowery Paths of Pleasure, wantonly reclining on the Ground, displaying the Charms both of her Eloquence and Person, to seduce him into Vice.

THOMAS JEFFERSON'S DESIGN


View attachment 43353
Jefferson's Front Side of the Great Seal

Thomas Jefferson also suggested allegorical scenes. For the front of the seal: children of Israel in the wilderness, led by a cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night.

View attachment 43354

Jefferson's Reverse Side of the Great Seal

For the reverse: The two brothers Hengist and Horsa, 5th-century Saxon warriors from Germany, were the legendary leaders of the first Anglo-Saxon settlers in Britain. They came to England as mercenaries to help the Briton tribe defend themselves against the rival tribes of the Picts and Scots.

BENJAMIN FRANKLIN'S DESIGN


View attachment 43357

"Moses standing on the Shore, and extending his Hand over the Sea, thereby causing the same to overwhelm Pharaoh who is sitting in an open Chariot, a Crown on his Head and a Sword in his Hand. Rays from a Pillar of Fire in the Clouds reaching to Moses, to express that he acts by Command of the Deity.”

The illustration above is based on the committee's revision of the design Benjamin Franklin submitted for the reverse of the seal. Franklin had a similar idea to Jefferson’s and wanted to illustrate a scene from the Exodus of the Israelites. The seal would show Moses parting the Red Sea with Pharaoh and his chariots being overwhelmed by the waters with the motto: Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God. Thomas Jefferson became so enamored with this motto he incorporated it for his own personal seal design.

Thomas Jefferson proposed an edit of Franklin's suggestion which read as follows:

"Pharaoh sitting in an open Chariot, a Crown on his head and a Sword in his hand, passing through the divided Waters of the Red Sea in Pursuit of the Israelites: Rays from a Pillar of Fire in the Cloud, expressive of the divine Presence and Command, beaming on Moses who stands on the shore and extending his hand over the Sea causes it to overwhelm Pharaoh.”
Benjamin Franklin was not happy with the eagle that was eventually chosen, as he explained in a letter to his daughter:
"For my own part I wish the Bald Eagle had not been chosen as the Representative of our Country. He is a Bird of bad moral Character. He does not get his Living honestly. You may have seen him perch’d on some dead Tree near the River, where, too lazy to fish for himself, he watches the Labour of the Fishing Hawk; and when that diligent Bird has at length taken a Fish,... the Bald Eagle pursues him and takes it from him."

Franklin saw the eagle as an avian aristocrat: classy-looking but unconcerned with helping the helpless.

Pierre Eugene Du Simitière Great Seal Design

View attachment 43360

One of the first actions of the Great Seal Committee was to call on an outside consultant to assist in the task. They picked artist Pierre Eugene Du Simitière, who, like the rest of this committee, was a member of the American Philosophical Society. Du Simitèire was born in Switzerland and was a painter, naturalist, and antiquarian collector. The picture above is what the committee picked for front of the seal, which was a revision of Du Simitèire’s proposal. His use of the Eye of Providence and the motto E pluribus unum are retained as elements in the seal today. The motto E pluribus unum ("out of many, one") is put into context by Du Simitèire's design, which contains a shield with 6 symbols representing the former nations England, Scotland, Ireland, France, the Netherlands and Germany of the colonists.

Lingua franca
A lingua franca, also known as a bridge language, common language, trade language, auxiliary language, vehicular language, or link language, is a language or dialect systematically used to make communication possible between groups of people who do not share a native language or dialect, particularly when it is a third language that is distinct from both of the speakers' native languages.

Latin is a dead language, ie, no longer spoken in everyday use. All of Europe was part of the Holy Roman Empire which lasted roughly one thousand years. Latin was the original language of the Romans and remained the language of imperial administration, legislation, and the military throughout the classical period. In the West it became the lingua franca and came to be used for even local administration of the cities including the law courts. Latin was the legal language of the Holy Roman Empire. The United States of America was founded during the time the Empire was still in effect and logically adopted it as well.

• Rejected Designs for the Great Seal of the United States
• Official Heraldry of the United States
• Our Documents - Original Design of the Great Seal of the United States (1782)
• The Great Seal (1776)
• Lingua franca - Wikipedia
• Ephraim and Manessah | History of the Twelve Tribes of Israel
  
  
  
  Summary
  Of the Original Great Seal's three designers two were of Welsh ancestry, namely Thomas Jefferson and John Adams. The Great Seal designs they presented were rejected for being too complicated.
  
  "The committee members—Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and John Adams—prepared a very complicated design that was promptly tabled by Congress. However, one prominent feature of their design appeared in the design that was originally adopted—the motto E Pluribus Unum, "Out of Many, One."
  
  All three Founding Fathers chose Biblical themes for their designs of the Great Seal. Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson both used the O.T. Book of Exodus for their theme design.
  
  John Adams applies a Greek allegorical theme where Hercules is deciding which path to walk in life by deliberating with the female personifications of Pleasure and Virtue and seems to be the least biblical of the three, or maybe not. Eusebius of Caesarea said that "the Greeks stole any truths they possessed from the more ancient Hebrews (Israelites) when describing his work "Praeparatio evangelica". Knowing that, the John Adams Greek allegory may be alluding to a N.T. theme namely, "for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat". (Matthew vii. 13)
  
  
  View attachment 43368
  
  
  • 13 stars in a cloud represents the 13 tribes that were under the law of Moses which he received from the cloud
    
    
  • 13 stars, 13 leaves, 13 arrows, 13 stripes, 13 colonies all pointing toward the 13 tribes of Israel
    
    
  • Dan's tribe is the eagle
• 
  
  Ephraim is the 13th tribe
  Ephraim was the 13th tribe because he was born after his brother Manasseh. He was born last to Joseph in Egypt, after Manasseh, the 12th tribe. The U.S. flag has 13 stripes, the U.S. originally had 13 colonies, in the U.S. Great Seal we find 13 stars above an eagle, also 13 arrows clutched in his left claw, and an olive branch with 13 leaves in its right claw, with a shield of 13 red and white stripes. The number 13 is associated with Ephraim and with America! Ephraims symbols were an Olive Branch, while his second symbol is a Bundle of Arrows. The first will be last and the last will be first!
  
  In the 13 tribes of Israel remember Jacob, as he was about to die, blessed Joseph's two sons, Manasseh and Ephraim. The blessing that Jacob gave Joseph was that Joseph's two sons would become his sons. This is why they are considered as part of the twelve sons of Jacob or his God-given name Israel.
  
  "And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head." (Genesis 48:17 KJV)
  
  
  **The United States is Ephraim the younger and Manasseh is Great Britain the elder**
  
  "And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations."
  (Genesis 48:19 KJV)
  
  
  
  
  View attachment 43367
  
  E pluribus unum "Out of many, one"
  
  
  
  
  Out of the many 13 tribes of Israel comes One Nation Under God
  
  
  
  
  
  FYI
  Apologies in advance. I did not know where to put this. This was carry over and overlap from the Madoc and the Five Civilized Tribes and the United States of Armorica threads that I was working on. Not trying to rain on the OP's thread. Totally in KD's hands. Free to erase the FYI post decision.

This is brilliant! Thanks so much. I was in the middle of researching when you posted, so I'm going to try to bring what I was looking into with your info when I reply properly to your post. Love the collaborative effort going on!

 

[Felix Noille]

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Username: Felixnoille
Date: 2020-03-30 11:26:54
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The 'New World' was considered to be where the 10 Lost Tribes of Israel would be found, therefore reuniting the 'hebrews'. Probably explains all the Old Testament references in some of the proposed designs... and the sympathies of the design's proposers. The Protestants were on-board with the theory big time as it's relevant to all of the Abrahamic religions.

(Edit: That's not to say it was true - it's the same old "we were there first" trick to justify colonisation and domination of the previous civilisation.)

 

[Archive]

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Username: dejavu
Date: 2020-03-30 20:12:23
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Thanks again to all who’ve provided info. Here’s the picture that’s coming into view for me based on your feedback and my research.

The main players behind The Great Seal, as I can identify them, are John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Pierre Du Simitière and Charles Thompson. Adams, Jefferson and Franklin were chosen by the Continental Congress to work together as a committee in order to create an official Seal design for the new nation. Du Simitière was the artistic consultant who was asked to assist the committee members and Thompson was the Secretary of the Continental Congress and credited with the final design, which was approved by Congress in 1782.

Franklin’s description includes the Motto "Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to God." To which it is said that Jefferson fully agreed with Franklin’s motto. Adams’ design description does not include a motto. So that leads me to Du Simitière, which is where I find the first reference to E PLURIBUS UNUM. It is noted that the motto is “put into context by using a shield with 6 symbols representing the former nations (England, Scotland, Ireland, France, the Netherlands and Germany) of the colonists. There were no plans to include a symbol for the 20% of the population that came from Africa.” The design was submitted on August 20, 1776, but not approved.

On June 13, 1782, Thompson was asked by Congress to take on the task of creating a suitable design, resulting in this sketch:

TheGreatSeal.com provides some information related to his background and design, including hand-written notes. The site notes:

Fifty-three at the time, Thomson had served the past eight years as Secretary of the Continental Congress where he acquired a reputation for fairness, truth, and integrity. Well-versed in the classics, he was once a Latin master at an academy in Philadelphia….Thomson incorporated symbolic elements from all three committees with ideas of his own to create a bold and elegant design. He made a sketch and wrote a description of his design.

• In the eagle's beak, he placed a scroll with the first committee's motto: E Pluribus Unum (Out of Many, One).
• Official Description of America's Great Seal – June 20, 1782
• Explanation of the Great Seal's Symbolism
• Original Source of E PLURIBUS UNUM - essentially, "America was originally likened to a bouquet of different flowers, where unity and individuality coexisted – as opposed to a "melting pot" that blended everyone together" as the following picture provided portrays.

I'm personally glad they didn't go with the melting pot idea because that just looks like America is going to be stewed...not sure that would encourage many to emigrate to the New World, imo. The bouquet idealism is quite different from the final concept too.

Interesting Note: Even though Thompson is credited with creating the Eagle based sketch shown above, The Great Seal said to have been adopted by Congress on June 20, 1782 was a written description of the two-sided design. No artwork was submitted to nor adopted by Congress. The original form of the Great Seal is this document that uses technical language to precisely describe the appearance of the imagery. In heraldry, this description is called a "blazon" – the starting point for creating a die or illustration of a seal. Hmmm, not sure how we then verify that it is his true sketch since it does not seem to have a signature or other marking related to him that I can see.

This is the first published copy of The Great Seal, which was in use from 1782 to 1841. (source)

It was used for the first time on September 16th on a document that gave General Washington full power to negotiate with the British and sign an agreement for the exchange, subsistence, and better treatment of prisoners of war. - GreatSeal.com

Conclusions:

Taking all these things into account, it would appear the E PLURIBUS UNUM motto use can be traced back to Du Simitière and continued by Thompson. This leans more with the idea that Latin was Lingua Franca and its use reflects it as the official language of the Roman Empire, whose reach included where the “former nations” of the colonists came from. Still, I’m not convinced that is the only reason, so I’m going to look more into Du Simitière to see if there are any direct Vatican or Freemason ties that might offer other explanations.

From the seal designs and descriptions credited to Adams, Jefferson and Franklin, there is clear evidence Judeo-Christian writings and beliefs are woven into their concepts, so that seems to suggest the Founding Fathers were establishing a new nation supported by such. The only thing I have found that might challenge that notion is in Article II of The Treaty of Tripoli signed in 1796. It reads:

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen (Muslims); and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan (Mohammedan) nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

Historical records show this is John Adams’ signing statement:

Now be it known, That I John Adams, President of the United States of America, having seen and considered the said Treaty do, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, accept, ratify, and confirm the same, and every clause and article thereof. And to the End that the said Treaty may be observed, and performed with good Faith on the part of the United States, I have ordered the premises to be made public; And I do hereby enjoin and require all persons bearing office civil or military within the United States, and all other citizens or inhabitants thereof, faithfully to observe and fulfill the said Treaty and every clause and article thereof.

From what I’ve been able to find, this has been interpreted by some to support the notion that the United States is not truly founded on Christian beliefs, while others hold that it should be interpreted as an act by the United States government to extend assurances to the Muslim nation that political negotiations and relations would be done under the guise of sovereignty rather than religion. A sort of diplomatic gesture, if you will. At least that’s how I’m interpreting it. Would be interested to see what any of you think.

This has been a good research effort. I truly appreciate all the feedback and information. It has given me a better understanding of the narrative behind the process and symbolism around the Latin use and meaning. There are still questions, but at least I have a better sense of where I should focus on going forward. If anyone has any additional thoughts or info, please feel free to keep posting. I’m trying to balance work, family and research so I may be a bit slow responding, but I’ll keep going.

 

[Clown Of God]

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Date: 2020-03-30 20:54:59
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E Pluribus Unum....has to be understood from the concept of meum and tuum.
Nothing other then universal reformation of the world through alchemical process from which true humanity will eventually merge...

 

[Archive]

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Username: dejavu
Date: 2020-03-30 21:22:31
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E Pluribus Unum....has to be understood from the concept of meum and tuum.
Nothing other then universal reformation of the world through alchemical process from which true humanity will eventually merge...

I'm sorry but you lost me. I don't speak Latin so I used a translator for your reference. How does meum MY and tuum YOUR reflect the plurality of out of many, one? Curious that you use reformation in the concept, so I'm trying to see the connection.

 

[Mabzynn]

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Username: Mabzynn
Date: 2020-03-31 17:04:57
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I'm sorry, but I don't know what that means. Would you please expand so I can understand? Thnx

EDIT: I'm trying to find out what that means. When I look it up, I just keep getting things related to the Imperial Crown of the HRE. Is this a reference to the Fourth Empire/Order/Reich? I'm interested to learn what you mean.

See here - America Was Stolen by the Holy Roman Empire

Feel free to ignore this as these are my crazy conclusions based on everything I've encountered from a variety of old sources and personal experiences. Pursuing these may get you disappeared:

I wrote that close to a year ago now. I've learned a lot more especially in October last year when a lot of the intricacies were exposed in the Ohio State Courts. What I didn't quite understand at that period was that America itself was "part" of the Holy Roman Empire. I thought it stopped at American Common Law (modified British Admiralty Law with specifications of jurisdiction on land), but there's at least two other layers of Law to peel through still.

The real name of this country has been hidden so as to hide the true seats (Sees) of power. (Damn Sethians). Here they are though:

Some how a US Attorney has stock value? :
Meet the U.S. Attorney



Unfortunately they hide the actual value of "his" stock:
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

The SEC also hides his stock value with "No Matching File Number":
Company Information:

Good thing they can't hide everything. Not only that, it's illegal what they're doing... someone should let the head of the SEC know... oh wait, they got the notice on March 5th). At least there's this backdoor website :
SEC Info - Search - “1334121”

Hidden behind a 3rd party corp:


Now back to the SEC registry searching the Company name and not just the SEC number and it yields a result:
EDGAR Search Results


Of course on the surface their SEC CIK number is different as (1316644):
AeroGrow International, Inc. SEC Registration



And their Bloomberg profile doesn't show their SEC number:



Oh look another (1338784):


Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

But the stock value is hidden again:
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Good thing we've got this backdoor website...
SEC Info - Search - “1338784”


Oh and another (1338794):
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?


Damn no value again:
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

And the backdoor... Shit, not again:


And another (1341031) with you guessed it... No value listed and hidden on the SEC website:
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?



More:



And more:




Another:



9/11:



The fraud just keeps on going:




Plus another:



More during Obama :



Another 9/11:



Yikes China:



Almost done:



Last one during Trump's presidency:



The Treasury was seized back in February 2020 and that is why the US Treasury bonds are now worthless and the FED will be nationalized as it can no longer function as a fictitious instrument through Christopher Eric Fite LLC via JP Morgan Chase.

Back to the topic:

What I do know is that the allodial rights to the HRE are American bloodlines (what we would call today old "Scottish" families) which really throws a damper in trying to understand these things. The Basques have the allodial rights in Spain and from what I gather they simply allow the Monarchs to rule in their stead. I've been in conversation with one of the Lawyer's working on exposing this and it has been mind bending to say the least. The Missouri Indians are a really interesting bunch to learn about or the "Long Canoe" people. The seven tribes... from the seven caves that peopled the Americas... Whom Votan came in contact with and established a global empire which is symbolized by the Double Headed Eagle. They were Sethians or the original "Christians" and referred to themselves as "Snake" people....

I suspect a lot of the obfuscation began with Frederick I with the visitation of "Americans" to Lusbeck in 1153 and the beginning of the Investiture Controversy and the re-establishment of Corpus Juris Civilis ("Roman" Law).

If we want any chance at understanding the reality of things we need to look at the Laws or framework with which these people have operated. The whore of Babylon is actually Egypt. Which is where our legal system began and why it is so prevalent in Vatican City today. Forget the timelines and the geography follow the Laws.

1783 Treaty of Paris - Signed by Prince Elector of the Holy Roman Empire - King George III. (Great Britain is the "3rd" Crown in conventional history making "America" the 4th Crown)

Here's my suggestion for a starting point if you want to understand the Trust/Bond system that is enslaving us that should be coming to an end very soon as we are in "Revelations":

The Institutions of the Law of Scotland - 1661
SOURCE

 

[Archive]

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Username: dejavu
Date: 2020-03-31 19:45:04
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See here - America Was Stolen by the Holy Roman Empire

Feel free to ignore this as these are my crazy conclusions based on everything I've encountered from a variety of old sources and personal experiences. Pursuing these may get you disappeared:

I wrote that close to a year ago now. I've learned a lot more especially in October last year when a lot of the intricacies were exposed in the Ohio State Courts. What I didn't quite understand at that period was that America itself was "part" of the Holy Roman Empire. I thought it stopped at American Common Law (modified British Admiralty Law with specifications of jurisdiction on land), but there's at least two other layers of Law to peel through still.

The real name of this country has been hidden so as to hide the true seats (Sees) of power. (Damn Sethians). Here they are though:

Some how a US Attorney has stock value? :
Meet the U.S. Attorney

View attachment 43471

Unfortunately they hide the actual value of "his" stock:
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

The SEC also hides his stock value with "No Matching File Number":
Company Information:

Good thing they can't hide everything. Not only that, it's illegal what they're doing... someone should let the head of the SEC know... oh wait, they got the notice on March 5th). At least there's this backdoor website :
SEC Info - Search - “1334121”

Hidden behind a 3rd party corp:
View attachment 43472

Now back to the SEC registry searching the Company name and not just the SEC number and it yields a result:
EDGAR Search Results
View attachment 43473

Of course on the surface their SEC CIK number is different as (1316644):
AeroGrow International, Inc. SEC Registration

View attachment 43477

And their Bloomberg profile doesn't show their SEC number:

View attachment 43476

Oh look another (1338784):

View attachment 43481
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

But the stock value is hidden again:
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Good thing we've got this backdoor website...
SEC Info - Search - “1338784”
View attachment 43487

Oh and another (1338794):
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
View attachment 43483

Damn no value again:
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

And the backdoor... Shit, not again:
View attachment 43489

And another (1341031) with you guessed it... No value listed and hidden on the SEC website:
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
View attachment 43486

Another one:

View attachment 43488

More:

View attachment 43490View attachment 43491

And more:

View attachment 43493
View attachment 43494

Another:

View attachment 43495View attachment 43496

9/11:

View attachment 43497View attachment 43498

The fraud just keeps on going:

View attachment 43499
View attachment 43500

Plus another:

View attachment 43501View attachment 43502

More during Obama :

View attachment 43503View attachment 43504

Another 9/11:

View attachment 43505View attachment 43506

Yikes China:

View attachment 43507View attachment 43508

Almost done:

View attachment 43509View attachment 43510

Last one during Trump's presidency:

View attachment 43511View attachment 43512

The Treasury was seized back in February 2020 and that is why the US Treasury bonds are now worthless and the FED will be nationalized as it can no longer function as a fictitious instrument through Christopher Eric Fite LLC via JP Morgan Chase.

Back to the topic:

What I do know is that the allodial rights to the HRE are American bloodlines (what we would call today old "Scottish" families) which really throws a damper in trying to understand these things. The Basques have the allodial rights in Spain and from what I gather they simply allow the Monarchs to rule in their stead. I've been in conversation with one of the Lawyer's working on exposing this and it has been mind bending to say the least. The Missouri Indians are a really interesting bunch to learn about or the "Long Canoe" people. The seven tribes... from the seven caves that peopled the Americas... Whom Votan came in contact with and established a global empire which is symbolized by the Double Headed Eagle. They were Sethians or the original "Christians" and referred to themselves as "Snake" people....

I suspect a lot of the obfuscation began with Frederick I with the visitation of "Americans" to Lusbeck in 1153 and the beginning of the Investiture Controversy and the re-establishment of Corpus Juris Civilis ("Roman" Law).

If we want any chance at understanding the reality of things we need to look at the Laws or framework with which these people have operated. The whore of Babylon is actually Egypt. Which is where our legal system began and why it is so prevalent in Vatican City today. Forget the timelines and the geography follow the Laws.

1783 Treaty of Paris - Signed by Prince Elector of the Holy Roman Empire - King George III. (Great Britain is the "3rd" Crown in conventional history making "America" the 4th Crown)

Here's my suggestion for a starting point if you want to understand the Trust/Bond system that is enslaving us that should be coming to an end very soon as we are in "Revelations":

The Institutions of the Law of Scotland - 1661
SOURCE

Wow. This certainly paints a much bigger picture. Will need some time to absorb it and decide what to look further into. Thank you for the link to your HRE thread. I had not seen it so I'll be sure to check it out.

 

[wild heretic]

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Username: wild heretic
Date: 2020-04-25 22:57:00
Reaction Score: 3

KD, I hope I'm putting this in the correct place. If not, feel free to move to a more appropriate place.

I have a question related to the Latin phrase/motto E pluribus unum used in the Great Seal of the United States, along with other Latin phrases on the back, used on official U.S. documents, flags and even currency. Specifically, my question is why is Latin used?

View attachment 43234

To give a brief background of my brainstorming:

As I understand it, the Great Seal was first used in 1782, after the Confederate Congress adopted it as the official symbol to authenticate documents for the United States. That is six years after the 13 British American colonies declared their independence from Great Britain and a year prior to the official end of the American Revolutionary War, which formally granted independence to become the United States.

If the 13 British American colonies were primarily English speaking, then why would Latin be used to formalize a symbol to represent this new, self-governing nation?

I know Freemasonry plays a big part in our nation’s history and there are many examples of occult symbolism in the seal (such as the 13 berries, 13 leaves, 13 arrows, 13 letters in the word “E PLURIBUS UNUM” and the 13 stars), but my question is specifically about the use of Latin. When I looked into the Freemason history, I found it has roots in Great Britain, primarily Lodges in Scotland and England so I’m not seeing the connection to Latin directly.

When I follow the historical narrative, Freemasonry & Lodges were founded during the Reformation when Europe protested the Vatican/Catholic Church’s views and practices, and established non-Catholic branches of Christianity (Protestantism). This Protestant Christianity is what we are told is the basis for our Founding Fathers’ religion and why they later adopted “IN GOD WE TRUST” as the foundation of our nation and government’s ideology. If that is the case, then why use a language that is symbolic of the very thing you are protesting – the Vatican/Roman Catholic Church – as part of the new symbolism? Is there a connection between Freemasonry and the Vatican/Roman Catholic Church/Holy Roman Empire I’m missing? Is it Jesuits in reality?

When I researched colonial America, I found that even University Seals are written with Latin phrases. I don’t get it. Why was Latin continued if it represented something the Founding Fathers opposed and protested in Europe, and English was the primary language of those colonies?

Jesuits. I have nearly finished this research because i had the exact same question u had. Here is my opinion. The jesuits are the Spanish knights templar originally, the ancient masonic lodges are the templars of the other nationalities, mainly british french and a bit of german.

I have come to the conclusion that the usa was created by the templars as the strongest nation they could make to smash the spanish colonies in north america. Spain had kicked out the jesuits in the 1760s and napoleon, the usa etc. were the jesuit bulldogs to hit back at spain and all of papal europe (as the pope had banned the jesuits too). I think russia was a bonus to hit their old enemy, the orthodox church.

I also made the mistake early on to equate the jesuits with the papacy. There is often an overlap depending on infiltration and time period. The enemies of the templars were the holy roman Empire of the german nations and the orthodox church both greek and russian which i think emanates back to the split of the roman empire into holy and old. In that sense the jesuits were one with papacy in goals. Ultimately they are all templars going back to egypt and the levant and the old jerusalem. There is a lot more but i hope that helps. its quite an extensive narrative but i think i have most bases covered with what info i could find.

 

[Clown Of God]

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Username: Clown Of God
Date: 2020-05-22 14:32:07
Reaction Score: 0

I'm sorry but you lost me. I don't speak Latin so I used a translator for your reference. How does meum MY and tuum YOUR reflect the plurality of out of many, one? Curious that you use reformation in the concept, so I'm trying to see the connection.

Have you ever considered that you are a you as much as you are an I ? The I which you go by with, becomes a you in relation to other I´s...

 

[Whitewave]

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Username: whitewave
Date: 2020-06-03 14:17:18
Reaction Score: 0

Have you ever considered that you are a you as much as you are an I ? The I which you go by with, becomes a you in relation to other I´s...

I feel like you're almost explaining something with your cryptic question. Could you expand the explanation to include relevance to use of Latin and/or the US seal? I got lost with your answer. Thanks.

 

[Archive]

Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.
Username: dejavu
Date: 2020-06-28 02:19:36
Reaction Score: 3

Jesuits. I have nearly finished this research because i had the exact same question u had. Here is my opinion. The jesuits are the Spanish knights templar originally, the ancient masonic lodges are the templars of the other nationalities, mainly british french and a bit of german.

I have come to the conclusion that the usa was created by the templars as the strongest nation they could make to smash the spanish colonies in north america. Spain had kicked out the jesuits in the 1760s and napoleon, the usa etc. were the jesuit bulldogs to hit back at spain and all of papal europe (as the pope had banned the jesuits too). I think russia was a bonus to hit their old enemy, the orthodox church.

I also made the mistake early on to equate the jesuits with the papacy. There is often an overlap depending on infiltration and time period. The enemies of the templars were the holy roman Empire of the german nations and the orthodox church both greek and russian which i think emanates back to the split of the roman empire into holy and old. In that sense the jesuits were one with papacy in goals. Ultimately they are all templars going back to egypt and the levant and the old jerusalem. There is a lot more but i hope that helps. its quite an extensive narrative but i think i have most bases covered with what info i could find.

Thanks for your comment @wild heretic. Sorry for the delay in response but I've not been in the forum for a few months now. I was having problems accessing and decided to just let it be for a while. Am just now getting back into the thread...

Following @Palaiolagash's coin reference, I have done some research into the Latin phrase since my posting and was able to find two Latin versions used in early Colonial America coinage: Unum E Pluribus (One From Many) and the revised E Pluribus Unum, both attributed to Ephraim Brasher, a prominent New York City gold and silversmith who is credited with creating the "Brasher Doubloons" in 1787. According to the American Numismatic Association, "The Brasher Doubloons were the only colonial gold coinage issues produced with intent for circulation, and therefore, must be considered among the most important of all colonial coinage." (source)

That being said, I felt this lends credibility to the related Latin phrase's use in the early establishment of the nation, in the sort of Lingua Franca form that @Nostradennis noted earlier in the thread. But the fact that it had originally been written in the Unum E Pluribus form, caused me to look a bit further into it to see if there was a reason for the different wordage in use.

As a side note: Of his original work, I found that "After making the coins Brasher counterstamped his initials on the reverse, six examples survive with the stamp on the wing and one survives with the stamp on the shield. The example long held by Yale University was offered at auction but went unsold (with an $800,000 reserve) during a January 1998 Stack's auction. However, according to Coin World (as cited below) the coin was jointly purchased by two coins dealers, Donald Kagin and Jay Parrino, in February of 1998. A unique half doubloon also survives in the Josiah K. Lilly collection at the Smithsonian." (source)

The Seal's Design
So, what I've been able to piece together so far is that the Seal is said to have been a combined effort between Charles Thomson (Secretary of the Continental Congress) with the help of William Barton (a lawyer and scholar from Pennsylvania known for his knowledge of heraldry) and the influence of Pierre Eugene du Simitiere. Barton and du Simitiere were both members of Benjamin Franklin's American Philosophical Society, so this seems to suggest there might be a natural familiarity and use of the Latin phrase within the Continental Congress and the APS. Still, the question to me remains why it was written in Latin and not the English language, so this is where I see a connection with Rome/Jesuits, as well as Freemasonry.

My Conclusion
From the Freemason's, I see a brotherhood symbolism in the phrase - that out of many, they represent one. From the Rome/Jesuit, I see the Latin language use in the phrase. If the history of our "new nation" is a result of Freemasonry and Rome/Jesuit efforts, then it would make sense to use the phrase in the Latin form to represent both groups. This is what I've come to deduce from the research I've done, taken all the different themes suggested by those who've shared their thoughts on the thread. For now, I have a better understanding of why the Seal has the Latin phrase in its symbolism, although I suspect I will continue to find more info the more I look into it. But for now, this is where I'm at. If there is anything else that I come across that can shed more light into my question, I'll be sure to add it. If anyone else would like to offer anything else, please feel free.

Thank you all for your thoughts and information. I appreciate the collaborative effort!

Have you ever considered that you are a you as much as you are an I ? The I which you go by with, becomes a you in relation to other I´s...

Yes, that is something I've considered. I can see how we might be individuals (the ME/MYSELF/I) yet part of a whole (the YOU/WE/US) in the grand scheme of things. So, is your position then that the E PLURIBUS UNUM is a symbolism of that idea/concept? If so, where is there a reference to that idea to research further?

 

[Archive]

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Username: Hipophoralcu
Date: 2020-06-28 07:04:22
Reaction Score: 0

KD, I hope I'm putting this in the correct place. If not, feel free to move to a more appropriate place.

I have a question related to the Latin phrase/motto E pluribus unum used in the Great Seal of the United States, along with other Latin phrases on the back, used on official U.S. documents, flags and even currency. Specifically, my question is why is Latin used?

View attachment 43234

To give a brief background of my brainstorming:

As I understand it, the Great Seal was first used in 1782, after the Confederate Congress adopted it as the official symbol to authenticate documents for the United States. That is six years after the 13 British American colonies declared their independence from Great Britain and a year prior to the official end of the American Revolutionary War, which formally granted independence to become the United States.

If the 13 British American colonies were primarily English speaking, then why would Latin be used to formalize a symbol to represent this new, self-governing nation?

I know Freemasonry plays a big part in our nation’s history and there are many examples of occult symbolism in the seal (such as the 13 berries, 13 leaves, 13 arrows, 13 letters in the word “E PLURIBUS UNUM” and the 13 stars), but my question is specifically about the use of Latin. When I looked into the Freemason history, I found it has roots in Great Britain, primarily Lodges in Scotland and England so I’m not seeing the connection to Latin directly.

When I follow the historical narrative, Freemasonry & Lodges were founded during the Reformation when Europe protested the Vatican/Catholic Church’s views and practices, and established non-Catholic branches of Christianity (Protestantism). This Protestant Christianity is what we are told is the basis for our Founding Fathers’ religion and why they later adopted “IN GOD WE TRUST” as the foundation of our nation and government’s ideology. If that is the case, then why use a language that is symbolic of the very thing you are protesting – the Vatican/Roman Catholic Church – as part of the new symbolism? Is there a connection between Freemasonry and the Vatican/Roman Catholic Church/Holy Roman Empire I’m missing? Is it Jesuits in reality?

When I researched colonial America, I found that even University Seals are written with Latin phrases. I don’t get it. Why was Latin continued if it represented something the Founding Fathers opposed and protested in Europe, and English was the primary language of those colonies?

Would you be surprized, if it uses latin simply because everything sounds better in latin? Tempus fugit sounds much better than time is flowing.

 

[Archive]

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Username: dejavu
Date: 2020-06-28 10:58:41
Reaction Score: 1

Would you be surprized, if it uses latin simply because everything sounds better in latin? Tempus fugit sounds much better than time is flowing.

What surprises me is that you would think I would accept that to be the case given the research efforts in the thread. To say that Latin is used simply because everything sounds better in Latin is ridiculous and doesn't hold much value in this inquiry. If that were the reason, then Latin would be the preferred language in use today. I grew up in the Roman Catholic Church where Latin was commonly used in Sunday mass. I did not find it better sounding then, nor do I think that is the reason it was used either. C'mon now. I'm looking for something that corroborates with supporting evidence its use as stated in the OP. If you have that, then I would be interested in learning more about it to see if it adds anything to what we have so far. There are genuine answers to genuine questions. Not sure if you are being serious or facetious but I'm not buying it, so I'll keep looking...

 

[Archive]

Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.
Username: Hipophoralcu
Date: 2020-06-28 12:30:28
Reaction Score: 1

What surprises me is that you would think I would accept that to be the case given the research efforts in the thread. To say that Latin is used simply because everything sounds better in Latin is ridiculous and doesn't hold much value in this inquiry. If that were the reason, then Latin would be the preferred language in use today. I grew up in the Roman Catholic Church where Latin was commonly used in Sunday mass. I did not find it better sounding then, nor do I think that is the reason it was used either. C'mon now. I'm looking for something that corroborates with supporting evidence its use as stated in the OP. If you have that, then I would be interested in learning more about it to see if it adds anything to what we have so far. There are genuine answers to genuine questions. Not sure if you are being serious or facetious but I'm not buying it, so I'll keep looking...

I did not meant disrespect. E pluribus unum is a motto. You comission a warship today, it gets a motto in latin in its crest, because it is tradition of mottos to be in latin since mottos were invented i think. I am convinced this was kept because it sounds better, really. The symbology, that provides company to these mottos, like the great seal, well. The founding fathers were not shy to build the US along the lines of the Roman Empire. Because the Roman Empire is the mightiest form of culture officially known. They were good, why not copy them? I mean, the US does the very same thing Rome did back then. War based economy for example, being always in a war, that is a roman thing in my understanding. Today many US citizens have never seen the peace flag. The US is a modern copy of the Roman Empire, i did not think someone has questions about that. Its all in your face style shown everywhere.
Is this because all the founding fathers were masons with hidden agenda or because they were not shy to copy what works? Of course both.

 

[Archive]

Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.
Username: dejavu
Date: 2020-06-28 13:11:01
Reaction Score: 1

I did not meant disrespect. E pluribus unum is a motto. You comission a warship today, it gets a motto in latin in its crest, because it is tradition of mottos to be in latin since mottos were invented i think. I am convinced this was kept because it sounds better, really. The symbology, that provides company to these mottos, like the great seal, well. The founding fathers were not shy to build the US along the lines of the Roman Empire. Because the Roman Empire is the mightiest form of culture officially known. They were good, why not copy them? I mean, the US does the very same thing Rome did back then. War based economy for example, being always in a war, that is a roman thing in my understanding. Today many US citizens have never seen the peace flag. The US is a modern copy of the Roman Empire, i did not think someone has questions about that. Its all in your face style shown everywhere.
Is this because all the founding fathers were masons with hidden agenda or because they were not shy to copy what works? Of course both.

I'm not taking it as disrespect as much as trying to figure out where you were coming from because it came across more joking opinion rather than based on something that could be supported with some historical reference. Without the benefit of facial expressions and voice tone, written word can come across different than what and how it was intended.

I agree that mottos are based on tradition and symbolism, that's why I'm trying to understand the one in the OP.

 

[Archive]

Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.
Username: Red Bird
Date: 2020-06-28 15:34:15
Reaction Score: 1

I am surprised that the seal with E Pluribus Unum doesn’t feature the fasces instead of a bundle of arrows. After all the saying is what the fasces is supposed to mean symbolically. However the supposed latin meaning is bundle. Also, I don’t think they’re hiding the relationship as the fasces is used so many other places.
So the bundle of arrows points to other meanings, such as arrow, itself. We’ve gone over this history In other places and it’s interesting.