Flat Earth

[GandalfTheGreen]

How can the Earth be navigated at all if not for a flat, stationary, plane beneath our feet?

Euclidean geometry proves the reality. You cannot use trigonometry with a curved adjacent.

There is no proof of a physical curve and the radius will NEVER be measured, because it is a figment of the imagination.

Let's see a flat earther use a AE projection to navigate the seas in the southern hemisphere; I'll gladly help you do so if you're willing to fund the voyage, I could use the vacation. The reality is that the tropics are the same size. Please refer to the attached image. Also, in terms of Curvature, what kind of curvature are you trying to measure? Judging from the arguments laid out before hand isochronus curvature? (Not serious but I am curious.)

Please refer to above links of the Katharis II for an updated, less than 3 year circumnavigation of Antarctica.

 

[El Forastero]

Let's see a flat earther use a AE projection to navigate the seas in the southern hemisphere; I'll gladly help you do so if you're willing to fund the voyage, I could use the vacation. The reality is that the tropics are the same size. Please refer to the attached image. Also, in terms of Curvature, what kind of curvature are you trying to measure? Judging from the arguments laid out before hand isochronus curvature? (Not serious but I am curious.)

Please refer to above links of the Katharis II for an updated, less than 3 year circumnavigation of Antarctica.

It doesn't matter what projection you use. I claim no model or projection.

Celestial navigation, using a sextant, would not be possible AT ALL if the Earth was a sphere.

 

[GandalfTheGreen]

It doesn't matter what projection you use. I claim no model or projection.

Celestial navigation, using a sextant, would not be possible AT ALL if the Earth was a sphere.

Tell that to the hundreds of millions of sailors who have navigated earth with a sextant using a CELESTIAL SPHERE, and navigating the earth PHYSICALLY, on the SURFACE as if it was a globe.

I've stated before there is an explanation for alot of the idiosyncrasies of the "Flat" Earth. Just have to go through them with what is evident in reality.

 

[otl2021]

The model that works, is the one that was introduced by Plato. It resurfaced again in the 1800's in another similar form, and again in the 1940's under the regime of Adolf Hitler. Endospheric Earth, Cellular Earth, "Con"cave Earth, Earth Id Est, I.E. : Inverse Earth.

Does the surface of large bodies of still water ever become convex or concave in your world?

When observing parallel with the ground, does the horizon/vanishing point ever appear anywhere else but eye-level when viewed from any height in your world?

Thanks

Frankly the Polish chaps claim is as dodgy as Cooks journals to my eye.

Cook is hardly the only explorer to document the problems with navigating the "southern hemisphere."

It seems that by the mid 1800s, they ramped up and began really pushing the heliocentric nonsense on everyday families. I can imagine it being much like sexulization of our children over the past decades, which today in many cases, includes mutilating our children's genitals being a good thing. And just like today there was backlash. And the backlash to heliocentrism has been documented in many books from many authors of the time.

It wasn't like one of two ships with drunk captains were crashing into Capetown. There are an amazing number of these cases documented. The same for the mileage and the time that it would take to sail along both the coasts of Africa, and also South America. And the story was always the same. The farther "south" one would sail, the more their daily reckoning would be off.

And it takes longer to drive across Brazil than America (and no, it's not because of their shitty roads). I found that odd.

We don't know what this place is, and I know there aren't many Alex Gleason fans here, but the man was certainly on to something.

 

[GandalfTheGreen]

It doesn't matter what projection you use. I claim no model or projection.

Celestial navigation, using a sextant, would not be possible AT ALL if the Earth was a sphere.

If it doesn't matter.... than why do you not claim one yourself? Because you know that your paradigm is incorrect. While you know your previous paradigm was also fraudulent, you do not have a prototype that can mimic reality, then you are not truly observing reality; But rather Illusion instead. As we all should know by now.... Horizon is always Apparent.

Does the surface of large bodies of still water ever become convex or concave in your world?

When observing parallel with the ground, does the horizon/vanishing point ever appear anywhere else but eye-level when viewed from any height in your world?

Thanks



Cook is hardly the only explorer to document the problems with navigating the "southern hemisphere."

It seems that by the mid 1800s, they ramped up and began really pushing the heliocentric nonsense on everyday families. I can imagine it being much like sexulization of our children over the past decades, which today in many cases, includes mutilating our children's genitals being a good thing. And just like today there was backlash. And the backlash to heliocentrism has been documented in many books from many authors of the time.

It wasn't like one of two ships with drunk captains were crashing into Capetown. There are an amazing number of these cases documented. The same for the mileage and the time that it would take to sail along both the coasts of Africa, and also South America. And the story was always the same. The farther "south" one would sail, the more their daily reckoning would be off.

And it takes longer to drive across Brazil than America (and no, it's not because of their shitty roads). I found that odd.

We don't know what this place is, and I know there aren't many Alex Gleason fans here, but the man was certainly on to something.

Water (ALL of it) is diamagnetic. This seems to be a property of water that the "Flat" Earthers have either purposely ignored, or ignorantly found no reason to investigate further. That being said, due to the diamagnetic property of water, ALL of it, reacts in accordance as it should, to the Celestial Sphere. Combine that fact along with a horizon that is apparent only, the circumnavigation of Antarctica in 2018 in 72 days, Atlas (The Titan) Who carried the Celestial Sphere on his back, the propagation of light through an atmosphere filled with gaseous amalgam (Many of which are Nobel gases, and reactant to EMF) and a little bit of Occam's Razor.... the sharp mind should see why "Flat" Earth fails by now.

But I digress....there is much more to discuss. Any dedicated "Flat" Earther who claims the Sextant doesn't work with a sphere, should take a sextant, and their preferred illusion of reality, and attempt a circumnavigation of the tropics to demonstrate their genius. If not, they should take a back seat; because the ancient peoples knew exactly what earth was, and there is no plausible way that every single captain of every single sailing vessel has been faking their mileage and supplies in their captains log through history.

The Tropics, are Equal in size. Anyone who dares to challenge that, should sail them themselves. There is One way to pull of the lie that is heliocentrism; and "Flat" Earth, is NOT the "final answer."

 

[FarewellAngelina]

Atlas the titan did not carry the Celestial sphere on his shoulders , he held up the vault of the sky , and that is in one version of the legend . He stood at the edge of the earth and held up the sky. Another version of the legend of the golden apples has Hercules slaying the dragon Ladon and took the apples - nothing to do with Atlas apart from him being the father of the Hesperides.
According to your logic a book of star constellations should be called an Atlas and so a book of maps should be a Map Book.

The celestial sphere may well exist but no man has ever seen this celestial sphere but only that portion that rotates over our plain .

The placing of the celestial sphere onto the shoulders of a Titan is a recent innovation to support the illusion of a globe .

Have a look at a Map Book and you will also find that France is about 650+ miles across up and down.

Which Map Book gave you your 4,000km ?

 

[Apollonius]

I have a little more time, so I'd like to touch on your silly meme.

The whole thing about the Southern " hemisphere " is a myth .

On the Flat Earth, the Sun does not rise for days even though it is 3 times closer to the city of Murmansk, while cities in New Zealand and Chile, which are somehow tens of thousands of kilometers away, experience about 16 hours of daylight.

Can you explain to me how this is possible on the Flat Earth model?

 

[GandalfTheGreen]

Atlas the titan did not carry the Celestial sphere on his shoulders , he held up the vault of the sky , and that is in one version of the legend . He stood at the edge of the earth and held up the sky. Another version of the legend of the golden apples has Hercules slaying the dragon Ladon and took the apples - nothing to do with Atlas apart from him being the father of the Hesperides.
According to your logic a book of star constellations should be called an Atlas and so a book of maps should be a Map Book.

The celestial sphere may well exist but no man has ever seen this celestial sphere but only that portion that rotates over our plain .

The placing of the celestial sphere onto the shoulders of a Titan is a recent innovation to support the illusion of a globe .

Have a look at a Map Book and you will also find that France is about 650+ miles across up and down.

Which Map Book gave you your 4,000km ?

Thank you for joining to our conversation and adding your contribution.

In regards to the rotating celestial sphere above our heads, you'll find that the more you research into it, it's rotation, the timing of stars, the more spherical it is. That being said, As for seeing only a portion, Need I remind you it's 2022 and people can livestream and share data. This WAS one of the fundamental aspects of "Flat" Earth. (Not that it's truly necessary at this point, because people all over the world have already demonstrated that the farther north, or the farther south you go, the more concentric star trails are.)

The point that you entirely missed about atlas, is that the "MODERNIZED" version of him pictures him holding a globe, where as the ANCIENT version of him he is depicted holding a CELESTIAL SPHERE. There are many ancient artifacts demonstrating this. The NASA Meatball, is the Celestial Sphere.

For your sake, I'll correct you on your presumption of my "logic." In Modern times, an Atlas, is a book used to navigate the surface of the Earth; and In Modern times, the Titan, Atlas (Who was banned to Tartary) is the one who holds Earth. In Ancient times, Atlas held a Celestial Sphere. Earth was, and has always been Terra Sancta.

View attachment 19716

On the Flat Earth, the Sun does not rise for days even though it is 3 times closer to the city of Murmansk, while cities in New Zealand and Chile, which are somehow tens of thousands of kilometers away, experience about 16 hours of daylight.

Can you explain to me how this is possible on the Flat Earth model?

How many days?

Atlas the titan did not carry the Celestial sphere on his shoulders , he held up the vault of the sky , and that is in one version of the legend . He stood at the edge of the earth and held up the sky. Another version of the legend of the golden apples has Hercules slaying the dragon Ladon and took the apples - nothing to do with Atlas apart from him being the father of the Hesperides.
According to your logic a book of star constellations should be called an Atlas and so a book of maps should be a Map Book.

The celestial sphere may well exist but no man has ever seen this celestial sphere but only that portion that rotates over our plain .

The placing of the celestial sphere onto the shoulders of a Titan is a recent innovation to support the illusion of a globe .

Have a look at a Map Book and you will also find that France is about 650+ miles across up and down.

Which Map Book gave you your 4,000km ?

Can you post a picture of Atlas holding the "vault?" I'd like to see that. Never have. Loads of painting/sculptures of him specifically holding a celestial sphere, prior to Mercator's incorporation of it.

 

[FarewellAngelina]

Any links to photos of ancient statues of Atlas holding up a celestial sphere? Pre say 1600

Mercator coined the term "Atlas" for a book of maps in1585 - his own work . The title page has an image of Titan holding up a terrestial globe , not a celestial sphere and not the sky as the myth tells.

Before him Ortelius published a book of maps entitled "Theatrum Orbis Terrarum" 1570 . That translates to "Theatre of the circular/round/disc world". https://www.wordsense.eu/orbis/

So another stolen history clue in all that .

 

[GandalfTheGreen]

Any links to photos of ancient statues of Atlas holding up a celestial sphere? Pre say 1600

Mercator coined the term "Atlas" for a book of maps in1585 - his own work . The title page has an image of Titan holding up a terrestial globe , not a celestial sphere and not the sky as the myth tells.

Before him Ortelius published a book of maps entitled "Theatrum Orbis Terrarum" 1570 . That translates to "Theatre of the circular/round/disc world". https://www.wordsense.eu/orbis/

So another stolen history clue in all that .

It's not really a clue. It's pretty obvious. The Celestial Sphere is inside of the Terrestrial sphere. "Terrestrial Orb" Also you're asking for a citation for something pre 1600, and then providing it directly to yourself in the very next line. Here is a screenshot of an artifact that predates both of the dates requested.

Here is a link to the Farnese Atlas the oldest known statue of the celestial sphere being bore by atlas. (1562)
Here is a link to a amphorisokos C6th B.C.

 

[otl2021]

Water (ALL of it) is diamagnetic. This seems to be a property of water that the "Flat" Earthers have either purposely ignored, or ignorantly found no reason to investigate further. That being said, due to the diamagnetic property of water, ALL of it, reacts in accordance as it should, to the Celestial Sphere.

I can't tell if this is another concession or you're just going for pure avoidance, but I am honestly trying to give your model a shot. Will you please answer these simple questions?

Does the surface of large bodies of still water ever become convex or concave in your world?

When observing parallel with the ground, does the horizon/vanishing point ever appear anywhere else but eye-level when viewed from any height in your world?

Thanks

 

[GandalfTheGreen]

I can't tell if this is another concession or you're just going for pure avoidance, but I am honestly trying to give your model a shot. Will you please answer these simple questions?

Does the surface of large bodies of still water ever become convex or concave in your world?

When observing parallel with the ground, does the horizon/vanishing point ever appear anywhere else but eye-level when viewed from any height in your world?

Thanks

I've already provided you as much detail necessary for you to understand the forces at play. All water is diamagnetic. This does not need repetition.

The Truth is indeed stranger than fiction. The observable horizon is an apparent non-geophysical illusion. Hence you can see over the alleged curvature of the convex earth. Interestingly enough, if you were to lie down flat upon the surface of the earth, and view out as far as you could into the horizon, you'll find that the more you zoom OUT the more your camera has to be angled UP.

 

[FarewellAngelina]

It's not really a clue. It's pretty obvious. The Celestial Sphere is inside of the Terrestrial sphere. "Terrestrial Orb" Also you're asking for a citation for something pre 1600, and then providing it directly to yourself in the very next line. Here is a screenshot of an artifact that predates both of the dates requested.

Here is a link to the Farnese Atlas the oldest known statue of the celestial sphere being bore by atlas. (1562)
Here is a link to a amphorisokos C6th B.C.

The dating of the Farnese statue is controversial and remains uncertain - even wiki here Farnese Atlas - Wikipedia

The statue is thought to be (not known to be) a 2nd C roman copy of a Greek statue .

So Atlas holds up the sky in the 6th bc, no sphere depicted there - and the source is the vatican

 

[GandalfTheGreen]

The dating of the Farnese statue is controversial and remains uncertain - even wiki here Farnese Atlas - Wikipedia

The statue is thought to be (not known to be) a 2nd C roman copy of a Greek statue .

So Atlas holds up the sky in the 6th bc, no sphere depicted there - and the source is the vatican

I guess you're going to completely ignore the fact that a spinning sphere solves the entire issue of star trails, and navigation from within the earth.

 

[FarewellAngelina]

I guess you're going to completely ignore the fact that a spinning sphere solves the entire issue of star trails, and navigation from within the earth.

Farnese atlas statue -found in mid sixteenth C in Rome apparently - brought to Naples end of 18th century . Fabrication of history in action it seems.

The Rebel God's Punishment: The Farnese Atlas

Your "facts" seem seem not be .

 

[otl2021]

I've already provided you as much detail necessary for you to understand the forces at play. All water is diamagnetic. This does not need repetition.

I'll assume concession at this point, while also noting complete avoidance to such a simple question. I will also note that this is a well known technique to stifle legitimate discussion.

The Truth is indeed stranger than fiction. The observable horizon is an apparent non-geophysical illusion. Hence you can see over the alleged curvature of the convex earth. Interestingly enough, if you were to lie down flat upon the surface of the earth, and view out as far as you could into the horizon, you'll find that the more you zoom OUT the more your camera has to be angled UP.

What convex Earth, seriously, and can you please post the original video from where you grabbed that grainy shot?

Thanks

 

[Apollonius]

I'll assume concession at this point, while also noting complete avoidance to such a simple question. I will also note that this is a well known technique to stifle legitimate discussion.


What convex Earth, seriously, and can you please post the original video from where you grabbed that grainy shot?

Thanks

The "Convex Earth" is the model of the Earth that mainstream science offers and everyone believes in. The reason why it is called convex is the claim that we live on the outer surface, not the inner surface.

Also, I still have not received an answer to my question.

 

[GandalfTheGreen]

I'll assume concession at this point, while also noting complete avoidance to such a simple question. I will also note that this is a well known technique to stifle legitimate discussion.


What convex Earth, seriously, and can you please post the original video from where you grabbed that grainy shot?

Thanks

That's the main issue with "Flat" Earthers, you've done nothing but made false assumptions this whole time. It's not that I'm avoiding the question, it's that you are avoiding the answer.

Water, is Diamagnetic.

Farnese atlas statue -found in mid sixteenth C in Rome apparently - brought to Naples end of 18th century . Fabrication of history in action it seems.

The Rebel God's Punishment: The Farnese Atlas

Your "facts" seem seem not be .

"The marble statue is 185 centimeters tall (approximately seven feet) and is thought to date back to the 2nd century BC, although it probably was inspired by an older original."

Still waiting for the whole "Fabrication of history in action"

 

[FarewellAngelina]

That's the main issue with "Flat" Earthers, you've done nothing but made false assumptions this whole time. It's not that I'm avoiding the question, it's that you are avoiding the answer.

Water, is Diamagnetic.

"The marble statue is 185 centimeters tall (approximately seven feet) and is thought to date back to the 2nd century BC, although it probably was inspired by an older original."

Still waiting for the whole "Fabrication of history in action"

The use of the words "thought to date back to " reveals how weak your "facts" are.

The statue was acquired by Cardinal Alessandro Farnese in 1562 . Vatican again. Says so in this link. Doesn't say from whom.

Farnese Atlas - Wikipedia

Click on his name in this link and scroll down to the section titled " Legacy as collector and patron" . You will see that
"In the Palazzo Farnese the best sculptors worked under his eye, to restore fragments of antiquities as complete sculptures, with great scholarly care"

I'll link that for you too.

Alessandro Farnese (cardinal) - Wikipedia

The statue has to be regarded as a fraud. He told the sculptors what he wanted and they obliged .

 

[GandalfTheGreen]

The use of the words "thought to date back to " reveals how weak your "facts" are.

The statue was acquired by Cardinal Alessandro Farnese in 1562 . Vatican again. Says so in this link. Doesn't say from whom.

Farnese Atlas - Wikipedia

Click on his name in this link and scroll down to the section titled " Legacy as collector and patron" . You will see that
"In the Palazzo Farnese the best sculptors worked under his eye, to restore fragments of antiquities as complete sculptures, with great scholarly care"

I'll link that for you too.

Alessandro Farnese (cardinal) - Wikipedia

The statue has to be regarded as a fraud. He told the sculptors what he wanted and they obliged .

Farnese atlas statue -found in mid sixteenth C in Rome apparently - brought to Naples end of 18th century . Fabrication of history in action it seems.

The Rebel God's Punishment: The Farnese Atlas

Your "facts" seem seem not be .

It's not the statue that matters. It's the concept of the Celestial Sphere itself, something recognized in this thread by several "Flat" Earthers. You have not proven the statue is infact a fraud, you're only casting shadow because that's literally the only thing you can do at this point.

Regardless of who made what statue, the "Celestial Sphere" Is a concept that predates the Farnese Atlas by over 2000 years; with it's earliest mention from Anaximenes. It was also adopted and used by Pythagorus, Plato, and Aristotle.

Infact, the concept of the celestial sphere still remains relevant to this day, Because it is still used for navigation, the keeping of times and seasons, and astrology.

You can scream "Fraud" all you'd like; The Freemasons know damn well it exists. They're partly responsible for the cover up of it.

The use of the words "thought to date back to " reveals how weak your "facts" are.

The statue was acquired by Cardinal Alessandro Farnese in 1562 . Vatican again. Says so in this link. Doesn't say from whom.

Farnese Atlas - Wikipedia

Click on his name in this link and scroll down to the section titled " Legacy as collector and patron" . You will see that
"In the Palazzo Farnese the best sculptors worked under his eye, to restore fragments of antiquities as complete sculptures, with great scholarly care"

I'll link that for you too.

Alessandro Farnese (cardinal) - Wikipedia

The statue has to be regarded as a fraud. He told the sculptors what he wanted and they obliged .

"He told the sculptors what he wanted and they obliged." Welcome to art 101.