South Bronx anomaly?

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Mifletz
SH.org OP Date
2019-09-23 21:27:18
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7
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15

mifletzet

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The Mud Flood channel on youtube, now unfortunately deleted, had a program entitled "South Bronx - when did people live here?" claiming that no one knows who built the dilapidated S.Bronx or when, that it was always deserted, and has never been inhabited until its recent gentrification.

Has this apparently recent historical anomaly been cleared up?

Related image
Image result for south bronx  dilapidation
Image result for south bronx  history
CMkJ5ENVAAAiGki.jpg
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Username: KorbenDallas
Date: 2019-09-23 23:09:18
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This is the first time I hear about it. These claims, do they have an origin?
 
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Username: Red Bird
Date: 2020-05-15 01:15:41
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i remember Jon Levi’s video where the Bronx question was discussed, also. While researching something found this article. Sort of sounds like they wanted it it to burn..

In the 1970s, the Bronx was burning, but some residents were rebuilding
In the 1970s, fires ravaged much of the Bronx: seven census tracts lost 97 percent of their buildings and 44 tracts lost more than 50 percent. Many people still believe that those fires were the result of arson—landlords burning their own buildings for profit, or even residents starting the fires. But Bronx residents are trying to reclaim that narrative.
 
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Username: Red Bird
Date: 2020-05-15 02:37:17
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I thought I remembered the videos were mostly of the 80’s so that would jive.
This area was Settled by the Dutch- maybe somebody was cleaning out the remnants.
 
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Username: whitewave
Date: 2020-06-26 02:26:01
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@Mifletz, that third picture you posted shows once manicured garden areas. They're overgrown in the picture but not by hundreds of years worth of growth. Probably not even 5 years worth of growth. Red bird mentioned that area being burned out in the 70's. Do you know how long after the fires these pictures were taken?
 
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Username: irishbalt
Date: 2020-06-26 05:30:22
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So why has this not been further explored?

One can actually visit the S Bronx, might be dicey right now but what else are you New Yorkers doing, go get it man. Publish the findings will ya.
 
Here are some pictures of fires (and aftermath) in the Bronx, mainly in 1977. The most active year, fire-wise.

burning-1977.jpgfire-on-tremont-and-grand-ave-768x525.jpgbf041dd.jpgfire-bronx-blackout-1977.jpgDecade-of-Fire-05.jpgvrg-00000-00043v.jpgthe-bronx-in-1977-new-york.jpg

Life as usual in the war zone....

160729-south-bronx-1970s-09.jpg160729-south-bronx-1970s-10.jpg11266979004_3776e44f30_b.jpg
Look at this next image. Regardless of when it was built, it would have been a descent apartment building. This was no slump. I think the fire escape stairs were probably retrofitted following City regulations. But would anybody add these if the building had never been lived in? It might still be pre-reset era, though. Just re-purposed.

05-Vyse-Ave-at-East-178th-St-Bronx-N-Y-September-1984.jpg
And now some images of the past and perhaps as they say "lost" Bronx. It used to be a safe place for the lower middle-class to raise a family. They were probably living in larger apartments for less rental price than in Manhattan.
Something made them leave....... 😮

Bronx-Webbs-Shipbuilding-academy.jpgBronx-1940sPostcard.jpgBronx-Grand-Concourse-at-Weeks-Avenue-looking-north-from-near-Trainors-House-1536x967.jpgBronx-Jerome-Ave-161st-St-c-1906.jpgBronx-looking-north-Baker-Ave-Wakefield.jpgBronx-1930_1.jpgBronx-1930s.jpgBronx-1930.jpgBronx-1949.jpgBronx-1940s.jpg

The following are from 1950s. And it looks like trouble had already started. Already disrepair and abandonment.

sobronx.2e16d0ba.fill-640x449.format-jpeg.jpegquality-70.jpgphpzXwJ.2e16d0ba.fill-640x413.format-jpeg.jpegquality-70.jpgphpY0hx.2e16d0ba.fill-413x640.format-jpeg.jpegquality-70.jpgphpSrKX.2e16d0ba.fill-640x413.format-jpeg.jpegquality-70.jpgphpsmyj.2e16d0ba.fill-640x474.format-jpeg.jpegquality-70.jpgphpiFRQ.2e16d0ba.fill-413x640.format-jpeg.jpegquality-70.jpg
 
Spanish and blacks move in. Whites move out. Buildings are not cared for by either tenants or the building's owners, who eventually burn them for the insurance payoff.
 
I was just talking to someone about this yesterday, and I still can't wrap my brain around it. It is an anomaly and the more I think about it I realize that this view of the Bronx has been it's theme for quite some time. Ever since I was young this is how the Bronx has been portrayed, especially in Hollywood. These movies that take place in the Bronx during the late 80's early 90's that I remember have a connotation of disrepair, inequality, unless you were the deprived, and a the rich owning these buildings only to neglect them and leave tenants in squaller. Usually the plot was that the rich landlord was given these run-down buildings because they weren't responsible to take care of the "better buildings" that the rich family may have owned, and they were trying to teach the irresponsible owner a "lesson".

This is concept only creates an almost real narrative that many will remember because of watching these movies, perpetuating the stigma of the ill gotten buildings. This place looks like a war zone in many pictures that are presented above from others and I did watch a small portion of Jon Levi's clip and I think he may be on to something.

It does seem to be a systematic way of moving people in and out of the "ghettos". But just think, I moved (about 45 years ago, a young Italian neighborhood) to the "ghetto" of Vermont. When I lived in the city it had an Italian festival that they would close the major roads and put up this "fair". Then as time moved on, it became the Puerto Rican Festival, and my family packed up and left. There was no Italian section anymore, and that was about the early 80's. Can't you see a pattern here?" Dubious bastards are in charge my friends.

I wonder if they used the Bronx for the Apocalyptic television series they had on ABC called "The Day After"? It looks just like it for the post apocalyptic scenes. This is the kind of MK Ultra crap that I have been finding throughout my youth, and just imagine how many people have been subject to such things. It truly is remarkable and Very scary!!
 
It does seem to be a systematic way of moving people in and out of the "ghettos"

Yes, I observed this phenomenon in my own town too. You live quietly in your neighborhood, then new people arrive massively attracted there by who knows what, and eventually you don't feel at home, it's not your neighborhood anymore.
And it might very well be deliberate too.

But the case of the South Bronx seems special. I realized while reading my post again that perhaps I should have presented my photo gallery in chronological order. Here's the chronology as I see it:

- c1900 to 1950: Rapid increase of population of the area by middle class people.
- 1950: Sudden departure of this middle class.
- 1950 to 1970: A 'void'. Neighborhoods abandoned and gradual arrival of new groups of people, mostly lower class and unemployed. But the repopulation was nothing compared to what it was before. Landlords don't do any maintenance anymore.
- 1970 to mid-eighties: Gradual destruction of entire blocks by fire and vandalism. Demolition and leveling of the parcels.
- Mid eighties to now: Reconstruction and re-development of the affected areas. In fact, most traces of this anomaly have disapeared.

Here's a photo comparison. On the left a famous TV coverage image taken by helicopter showing the war zone. On the right, what it looks like today.

Bronx_the&now.jpg

Let's go back a little to the late 19th century with this 1897 bird's view of the western part of the Bronx. Note how empty it seems to be in view of all the already laid out streets. How did they figure over a million people would soon live there?
If most of the Bronx consisted of trees as shown in the drawing, why spending a fortune in urban infrastructure, planning all the street layout a generation before it would be occupied? Is it possible that there was a whole city there, abandonned, but they would not want to show it on maps?
In the late 19th century, few people lived in the northern tip of Manhattan and most New-Yorkers might not have been aware of this unknown city, having no reasons to go so up north. Transportation was also scarce and slow then.

Bronx_1897_ups.jpg

The western part of the Bronx was populated heavily while the eastern part may have remained empty. Studying photos of the empty buildings I noticed that some seem to have been evacuated by its tenants not so long ago while others are in such a state that you may wonder if anybody ever lived there.
Why the discrepancy?
I would like to speculate at this point (although I prefer facts to speculations most of the time):

Let's say that this really was an ancient city in accordance with the reset theory. What if there had been two factions among the decision makers, two philosophies?
One would be in favor of re-use of the structures while perhaps erasing possible clues of its origins and culture. The other preferred immediate destruction to make sure everybody forget as soon as possible that this was already there.
By 1900, those in favor of repurposing may have won the argument. Populating started after renovations.
Everything seemed to work and develop until circa 1950. Possibly the faction for reconstruction (their sons and grandsons) decided that it was time to take measures to put an end to this. They would stage all sorts of violent events in the South Bronx to scare the population. Parents would not want to expose their children to risks and therefore the exodus started.
By 1970, the destruction and replacement faction have finally won the internal disagreement among those 'in control'. Their plan was simply delayed by a few decades. The destruction however would have to look natural, not too systematic, hence the narrative of 'awful' tenant's vandalism and fire settings for insurance money purposes by desperate building owners.

Needless to say, I cannot prove any of this. Just throwing an idea.
 
I don't have time right now to look, but I am wondering if this is a pattern and maybe somewhere else like perhaps, Chicago, might have the same story. Just putting it out there, all though I may be reaching.
 
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