"Tartaria" is a myth and didn't exist

[HollyHoly]

well Ill leave this here for you Tartarians just an awesome amount of great info in this video

​

 

[DavidMalcolmCurrie]

I did a search on plant names, and many plants have the name "Tartarian" in them, not just the well known "Tartarian Cherry". My research didn't go deep enough to know if all those plants originated in Asia, but many of them were found in North America currently as I recall - more research is needed on this subject.

One strong argument against the idea of Tartary/Tartaria is the fact that the huge, beautiful buildings people like to post in threads related to Tartary are usually located in Europe, where Tartaria was not located. This kind of architecture is not present in the huge landmass that used to be Tartary.

Still doesn't explain the mystery of the world's fairs.

Those huge, awesome buildings built for giant sized humanoids (human beings?) are all over the world, on every continent (I don't consider Antarctica a continent), although perhaps not in central Asia as you described - I'm not certain about that vast, mostly empty area. But every continent has those incredible buildings, usually near the ocean or rivers, with the familiar domes, columns, towers, arches, etc. I took a tour of the Capitol building in Olympia Washington, and it was clearly built for giants. The front steps were too far apart for people our size, making it awkward to use them, I had to take one huge step, or two little steps. When I reached the front door, I noticed how huge it was, for some reason I didn't know at the time. Then on the inside all the ceilings and doorways were very high. Strangest of all, some of the rooms still had the old furniture in them, and obviously weren't presently being used for modern "government" purposes. I say that because the tables and chairs were huge, I would feel like a little child sitting in those huge chairs at the huge tables! At the time I didn't know about the previous civilization(s) of giants, and was confused about the size of the building and furniture, but now it makes sense. I don't believe it was "Tartaria" or "Great Tartary" that made those awesome buildings built for giants, and whoever built them was likely disappeared from history, by the satanic cabal that controls this world for satan. I confess to believing in the Holy Bible, although I didn't start doing that until a few years ago (I'm 66), but I believe humanity's past which we are discussing at this site is explained in biblical scripture.

 

[Daniel]

We have echoes and layers of all kinds of former civilizations Sumerians Assyrians Minoans, Greeks ,Egyptians Aztecs Incas Moche, Hindu, Mughal, so where does Tartaria come in? What were these other civilizations doing with it in response to it ?

I think you have it the wrong way round. We have no relics from any civilisations such as "Sumerians", as the "Sumerians" are 19th century fiction.

Meanwhile, Tartarian relics in North and Central America are called names like "Aztec" or "Mayan", Tartarian relics in South America are called "Incan" Tartarian relics from present-day Iraq are called "Assyrian" or "Babylonian". Tartarian relics from Esst Asia are credited to eg the "Ming Dynasty" etc.

And these are scattered across thousands of years of false "History".

Most "former civilsations" that we learn about in History books never actually existed. And the artifacts that are credited to them in museums either belonged to another civilisation entirely, or they are modern fakes.

 

[yoxdo]

I think you have it the wrong way round. We have no relics from any civilisations such as "Sumerians", as the "Sumerians" are 19th century fiction.

Meanwhile, Tartarian relics in North and Central America are called names like "Aztec" or "Mayan", Tartarian relics in South America are called "Incan" Tartarian relics from present-day Iraq are called "Assyrian" or "Babylonian". Tartarian relics from Esst Asia are credited to eg the "Ming Dynasty" etc.

And these are scattered across thousands of years of false "History".

Most "former civilsations" that we learn about in History books never actually existed. And the artifacts that are credited to them in museums either belonged to another civilisation entirely, or they are modern fakes.

That's a good way to throw everyone off including the useless mainstream historians. Just give it a different name and since its in a different area nobody notices it.

 

[asatiger1966]

The main instigator of the Tartaria theory seems to have been Fomenko as far as I can tell. I always got the sense there is a Russian nationalist undercurrent to it, and Fomenko continues to be employed as a professor by Moscow State University, so clearly the Russian establishment approve of his theories.

Personally I think the promotion of the Tartaria theory suits current Russian geopolitical agendas, such as their Eurasianist agenda. The idea of reviving the Soviet Union (which is basically the aim of Eurasianism) has a bad rep with many people for obvious reasons, so I would think it suits them to paint a narrative that Russia being united with the Central Asian states and having close relations with China, etc, has a much more ancient historical precedent.

That said, I wouldn't completely write off Tartaria as a theory, there's enough evidence that has been unearthed that there's clearly something to it, but I think the way it's frequently portrayed by Russian researchers as an ancient Russian/Slavic empire is baseless and is really taking it out of context to benefit modern nationalist and geopolitical agendas.

If Tartaria did exist, the most probable scenario seems to me that it was the Russian Slavs who destroyed it in their Eastward expansion/empire building. It's also interesting that the regions of modern day China with the highest levels of authoritarianism and controls, Tibet and Xinjiang, correspond to the regions that used to be part of Tartaria. This makes me more inclined to think what has happened to those regions is part of a cover up.

Thoughtful, thanks

 

[toneavii]

Tartaria has become another psi-op

Enough truth to get those questioning interested, a portion of those becoming 'followers' and 'repeaters'

Enough half-truths to keep things confusing and difficult to piece things together.

Enough blatant lies and idiotic information to get those not questioning to point their fingers and make the whole subject and community appear 'crazy'.

Same old algorithm, used again and again and again

I find it funny that those who don't know make outlandish claims.

View attachment 18703
Tartary, a vast country in the northern parts of Asia... This is called Great Tarary (1771, Encyclopedia Britannica)​

As we got many new users during the last months, some from Youtube, I think it's time to start a thread on this topic.

Many people in the alternative history community believe there was a unified civilization until recently, and that it was called "Tartaria". The idea of calling this civilization "Tartaria" is mostly being spread on Reddit and Youtube, and is being promoted by Youtubers who earn money with creating an almost religious following.

Read this to get an overview of previous research on Tartaria: SH Archive - Tartary - an Empire hidden in history. It was bigger than Russia once...

I think everyone who uses the term Tartaria to describe the Old World continues to cement a misleading view of alternative history.

While Tartary itself was real, it was not what many people now think it was. I do think there once was a unified civilization, with a unified architecture. But "Tartary" is a wrong name for it.

The myth came about when Russians started to realize that before their country was called Russia, it was named "Tartaria" on old maps. And it didn't only span Russia, but most of Asia.

Tartaria was split into different parts - Russian (Muscovite) Tartary, Chinese Tartary, etc.

Later some people found evidence that there were remains of Tartaria in America, mostly Western America, too. So the idea spread that Tartaria was literally everywhere.

And this is where things started to move into the wrong direction. In reality, Tartaria was simply a geographic area in Asia, with some of those Tartarians also influencing the American culture.

There is nothing more to it. It was part of the "Old World", but it wasn't exclusively the Old World.

So using the term Tartaria everytime one speaks about this old world cements a misleading view of a Slavic-centric world, where for some reason Russian culture dominated everything else.

To this date, not a single proof has been presented why this geographically limited region in Asia called "Tartary" was worldwide.

It is now simply a meme, and in my view it is a dangerous meme, because it limits our possibilities of what the Old World really was.

View attachment 18704
Country Flag of Tartary, independent of China, indeed suggesting a political structure. Another map here.​

Yes, Tartary was somehow forgotten after the communist revolution. Yes, Tartary was probably not a geographical area but a kingdom of sorts, with a flag and political unity. Yes, it was probably powerful at one point. Yes, Tartarian influence extended probably to America. No, it was not a worldwide advanced civilization that somehow dominated all of the other kingdoms we see on old maps.

View attachment 18665​

A quick glance on the oldest maps of Tartary show that not the entire world was Tartary, surprinsigly.​

South of Tartary you see Arabia, Persia, India, China and Japan. To the West is Europe.

If anything, Tartary should be understood as a symbol for forgotten knowledge - that's why we have the Tartary Griffin in our logo.

I will use this thread to collect more information on this, with the goal to publish an extensive article on this topic, wich can be provided as a reference whenever the topic of Tartary comes up.

Many scientists from Western Europe considered the Great Tartary a huge empire stretching from the Urals to the Pacific Ocean. For example, the Italian diplomat and Jesuit Giovanni Botero in his work “Universal Relation” (Relationi universali), dated 1595, wrote that this country used to be called Scythia. And it occupies half of Asia, in the west bordering on the Volga region, and in the south – with China and India. At the same time, the lands of a huge empire on one side are washed by the waters of the Caspian Sea, and on the other by the Bering Sea.​

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Another representative of the Jesuit order – the French Orientalist Jean-Baptiste Duhalde – in 1735 published a scientific work entitled “Geographical, historical, chronological, political and physical description of the Chinese Empire and Chinese Tartary.” In his opinion, in the west this huge country borders with Muscovy, in the south – with Mongolia and China, from the north this state is washed by the Arctic Sea, and the East Sea separates Tartarius from Japan.​

Where was the Great Tartary? | Earth Chronicles News

The pseudohistorical conspiracy theory about Great Tartaria first appeared in Russia, popularized by Nikolai Levashov, and in Anatoly Fomenko’s New chronology. In Russian pseudoscience, known for its nationalism, Tartaria is presented as the "real" name for Russia, which was maliciously "ignored" in the West (for example, the 2011 film "Great Tartary - Empire of the Rus", posted on YouTube). Since about 2016, conspiracy theories about the supposed lost empire of "Tartaria" have gained some steam on the English-speaking part of the Internet.​

​

The conspiracy is based mostly on a misunderstanding of architectural history. Adherents suppose that demolished buildings such as the Singer Building, or the temporary grounds of the 1915's World's Fair were actually the buildings of a vast empire based in Tartary that has been suppressed from history. Sumptuously styled Gilded Age buildings are often held out as really having been built by the supposed Tartaria. The conspiracy is very light on details, and only vaguely describes how such a supposedly advanced civilization which had reputedly achieved world peace could have fallen and been hidden. The idea that a "mud flood" wiped out much of the world and thus old buildings is common, supported only by the fact that some buildings have basements which had windows. World War I & II are cited as a way in which Tartaria was destroyed and hidden, reflecting the reality that the extensive bombing campaigns of World War II did destroy many historic buildings. The general evidence for the theory is that there are similar styles of building around the world, such as capital buildings with domes, or star forts. However, such designs exist globally due to colonialism by empires such as Britain, Spain, and Portugal, not some lost empire such as Tartaria. The theory reflects a cultural discontent with modernism, and a supposition that traditional styles are inherently good and modern styles are bad.​

Tartary - Wikipedia

You have not gone deep enough.

 

[CurvedBullet]

So how do they explain the presence of Tartarian tribes on North American soil?

What is a "Tartarian tribe" and what evidence is there of their presence in N. American soil? Because N. American includes Canada, the "U.S." and Mexico.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

How can Tartary be a myth if it was a country with its own flag, coat of arms and language?

It even had a capitol city. Sellingham.

The Tartarians are the lost 10 tribes of Israel according to Marco Polo and book I believe is called "Purchace his Pilgrims" . The 10 tribes were imprisoned in a land called Azareth. Some of them were actually believers in Christ.

What is a "Tartarian tribe" and what evidence is there of their presence in N. American soil? Because N. American includes Canada, the "U.S." and Mexico.

There are Many maps showing Most of North America under their control

well Ill leave this here for you Tartarians just an awesome amount of great info in this video

​

An excellent channel and great source of Truth in a time of great deception. Shout out to David Carrico and Jon Pounders!

 

[Khdrd]

Tartaria was definitely not “Russia” and i don’t think Russians really even existed as a nation at that time. They probably were a bunch of tribes who were always controled by somone. Most likely Tartarians were a mix of many different ethnicities and races— mainly of “scythes” who later became turks. They were probably a lot more of other ethnicities that got wiped out, and it’s really hard to say for sure because it’s indeed a lost world.
But it’s really funny to me that Russia is trying to really turn this story around and make it seems like it was “Russia”. I think Russians have very deep generational trauma, because they were marginalized group- basically slaves for a very very long time (I’m talking about 1 or 2 thousand years). They have been somewhat “free” for couple of centuries, but i think that’s why there is such a strong imperialistic desire coming from Russia. Some sort of unconscious revenge. And also there is a strong slave mentality and really lack of understanding of a human and civilian freedom, that’s why they are always ruled by autocrats and usurpers.

 

[Safranek]

Tartaria was definitely not “Russia” and i don’t think Russians really even existed as a nation at that time. They probably were a bunch of tribes who were always controled by somone. Most likely Tartarians were a mix of many different ethnicities and races— mainly of “scythes” who later became turks. They were probably a lot more of other ethnicities that got wiped out, and it’s really hard to say for sure because it’s indeed a lost world.
But it’s really funny to me that Russia is trying to really turn this story around and make it seems like it was “Russia”. I think Russians have very deep generational trauma, because they were marginalized group- basically slaves for a very very long time (I’m talking about 1 or 2 thousand years). They have been somewhat “free” for couple of centuries, but i think that’s why there is such a strong imperialistic desire coming from Russia. Some sort of unconscious revenge. And also there is a strong slave mentality and really lack of understanding of a human and civilian freedom, that’s why they are always ruled by autocrats and usurpers.

While I agree with your first paragraph, I don't come to the same conclusion as you regarding today's Russians.

They, like the rest of Europeans have been psy-oped for generations via wars of deception, erasure of cultural histories including modification of languages. Its fairly evident to most Russians who do even a little research that their 'royal families' and their ruling elite have been and are of German descent (and by that I don't mean German blood but the aristocracies that subdued Germany).

The likely scenario is that the Russian people are remnants of the Scythians (later Tatars), at least the portion that wasn't eliminated by various genocides such as this one (just one example). I am sure the Scythians didn't speak Russian and Western Europeans didn't speak Latin originally. Genetic studies show the true relationship between peoples and logic would dictate that at least those with common genetics spoke the same language before they were subdued and their cultures altered and destroyed.

They have been somewhat “free” for couple of centuries, but i think that’s why there is such a strong imperialistic desire coming from Russia. Some sort of unconscious revenge. And also there is a strong slave mentality and really lack of understanding of a human and civilian freedom, that’s why they are always ruled by autocrats and usurpers.

The imperialistic desire is not coming from the Russian people but from their ruling elite (and I don't mean their politician stooges). Regarding the slave mentality, unfortunately this has been bred into every nation including yours. Need I mention your 'fairly elected' president of recent for several terms, his international oligarch friends, his wealthy family being tied into the oligarch network, while the people of Kazakhstan just obediently watch, much like Russians, Europeans, Americans, etc.

The point is this. We've all been lied to, deceived in many ways, robbed by our 'leaders', and they were and are able to do this because they have us fight each other. There's no reason for this, we haven't done anything to each other by our own intent, we've been manipulated into it by a ruling elite via the age-old tactic of divide and conquer.

If we can't get enough people to channel their aggression against the true aggressors, we'll continue to have more of the same, and worse.

 

[iseidon]

Need I mention your 'fairly elected' president of recent for several terms, his international oligarch friends, his wealthy family being tied into the oligarch network, while the people of Kazakhstan just obediently watch, much like Russians, Europeans, Americans, etc.

I agree with most of what was said.

There is one nuance. The current president of Kazakhstan is no longer Nazarbayev, but Tokayev. This does not cancel the fact that the influence of Nazarbayev and his family in Kazakhstan is enormous. So, in essence, everything you said is correct.

I still can't understand people who think that the president is brought to "power" (or rather to the official position) by the people. The only difference is that in developed countries they know how to present this process beautifully. But there are problems with this as well. Biden came to power on bayonets (20+ thousand military men «defending» the White House from the "invasion" of the Trumpists). Trump was blocked on major social networks. So, even in the U.S. there are already problems with pushing the "president for the people" version.

 

[toneavii]

Tartaria was definitely not “Russia” and i don’t think Russians really even existed as a nation at that time. They probably were a bunch of tribes who were always controled by somone. Most likely Tartarians were a mix of many different ethnicities and races— mainly of “scythes” who later became turks. They were probably a lot more of other ethnicities that got wiped out, and it’s really hard to say for sure because it’s indeed a lost world.
But it’s really funny to me that Russia is trying to really turn this story around and make it seems like it was “Russia”. I think Russians have very deep generational trauma, because they were marginalized group- basically slaves for a very very long time (I’m talking about 1 or 2 thousand years). They have been somewhat “free” for couple of centuries, but i think that’s why there is such a strong imperialistic desire coming from Russia. Some sort of unconscious revenge. And also there is a strong slave mentality and really lack of understanding of a human and civilian freedom, that’s why they are always ruled by autocrats and usurpers.

Read Ancient and modern Britons. Pg. 406 describes the tartarians as black, and ruthless.

 

[Liberated Collective]

You Are correct, literally everything we have been given in history is a total lie, because I am pretty sure we just got taken over, and we are all men of renown, stuck in human form. The evidence is practically still surface level, meaning it happened in the last hundred years...

 

[QuakerTheOat]

Tartaria was definitely not “Russia”

You know this how?

Most likely Tartarians were a mix of many different ethnicities and races

Sure. These type of 'multicultural' demographics are apparent in all successful societies. I mean, look at the wonder and beauty it has created in Detroit, London and Paris.

But it’s really funny to me that Russia is trying to really turn this story around and make it seems like it was “Russia”. I think Russians have very deep generational trauma, because they were marginalized group- basically slaves for a very very long time (I’m talking about 1 or 2 thousand years). They have been somewhat “free” for couple of centuries, but i think that’s why there is such a strong imperialistic desire coming from Russia. Some sort of unconscious revenge. And also there is a strong slave mentality and really lack of understanding of a human and civilian freedom, that’s why they are always ruled by autocrats and usurpers.

From a historical perspective, what evidence do you have to support any of this? The Russian People are now and always have been some of the most intelligent and creative in the world. And I'm specifically *not* referring to the 'ruling class' there. The Russian people of today are enslaved by the same 'people' that the rest of us are. Some call them 'the deep state'. Some call them 'the elite'. Some call them 'TPTB'. I just call them Jews, because it annoys the s*it out of me when people dance around it.

 

[Blackdiamond]

You know this how?

Sure. These type of 'multicultural' demographics are apparent in all successful societies. I mean, look at the wonder and beauty it has created in Detroit, London and Paris.

From a historical perspective, what evidence do you have to support any of this? The Russian People are now and always have been some of the most intelligent and creative in the world. And I'm specifically *not* referring to the 'ruling class' there. The Russian people of today are enslaved by the same 'people' that the rest of us are. Some call them 'the deep state'. Some call them 'the elite'. Some call them 'TPTB'. I just call them Jews, because it annoys the s*it out of me when people dance around it.

It seems like russia is a modern thing. It mirrors the US history story nearly 100%.
Same expansion story.
Us got rid of their german language where is russia it lives on in names and cities.

 

[robgreen12345]

They had free energy and building technology

Did they have mental health technology? Something based on stones and crystals that made you feel better?

 

[Mavraki]

When I first heard of tartary, about one month ago, the first thing I thought could it possibly be true? History has been hidden from us, especially biblical history. Tartary is the lowest form of hell. That is reserved for Satan and the fallen angels. The children of the fallen angels are giants and this part of our history has not only NOT been taught in schools. It’s difficult to find the truth on the internet unless you search for aliens. It is not even mentioned in our churches. Upon seeing not only ancient structures but also gigantic ‘modern’ buildings and learning why they were built and how they were used these giants were in existence a hundred years ago. And are still in existence today. At least a remnant of them.

 

[Deleted member 1432]

When I first heard of tartary, about one month ago, the first thing I thought could it possibly be true?

The vast majority of Tartarian believers do not equate it with Tartarus. To them Tartaria is a lost worldwide civilisation, whereas Tartarus, not Tartary, was the name given by the Greeks to the ruler of Hades and also to a specific area within Hades.

this part of our history has not only NOT been taught in schools.

This would be classed as mythology in school curriculums, not history.

Upon seeing not only ancient structures but also gigantic ‘modern’ buildings and learning why they were built and how they were used these giants were in existence a hundred years ago. And are still in existence today. At least a remnant of them.

Are you seriously suggesting that gigantic modern buildings have been and still are being built by giants?

Wikipedia defines the Tartarian Conspiracy Theory as follows:

"The theory about Great Tartaria first appeared in Russia, popularized by Nikolai Levashov, and in Anatoly Fomenko’s New chronology. In Russian pseudoscience, known for its nationalism, Tartaria is presented as the "real" name for Russia, which was maliciously "ignored" in the West. Since about 2016, conspiracy theories about the supposed lost empire of "Tartaria" have gained popularity on the English-speaking part of the Internet.

"The conspiracy is based on an alternative view of architectural history. Adherents suppose that demolished buildings such as the Singer Building, Penn Station, or the temporary grounds of the 1915's World's Fair were actually the buildings of a vast empire based in Tartary that has been suppressed from history. Sumptuously styled Gilded Age buildings are often held out as really having been built by the supposed Tartaria. Other buildings, such as the Great Pyramids and the White House are further held out as Tartarian buildings. The conspiracy only vaguely describes how such a supposedly advanced civilization which had reputedly achieved world peace could have fallen and been hidden.

"The idea that a "mud flood" wiped out much of the world and thus old buildings is common, supported by the fact that many buildings across the world have architectural elements like doors, windows and archways submerged many feet below "ground level" for no apparent reason. World War I & II are cited as a way in which Tartaria was destroyed and hidden, reflecting the reality that the extensive bombing campaigns of World War II did destroy many historic buildings. The general evidence for the theory is that there are similar styles of building around the world, such as capital buildings with domes, or star forts. Also many photographs from the turn of the 20th century appear to show deserted city streets in many capital cities across the world. When people do start to appear in the photographs there is a striking contrast between the low-tech horse & cart dwellers in the muddy streets and the elaborate, highly ornate stone mega-structures which tower above the inhabitants of the cities.

"Zach Mortice writing for Bloomberg believes that the theory reflects a cultural discontent with modernism, and a supposition that traditional styles are inherently good and modern styles are bad. He describes the theory as the QAnon of architecture."

 

[trismegistus]

Wikipedia defines the Tartarian Conspiracy Theory as follows:

Regardless of where you fall on the "tartarian conspiracy theory" it really amazes me how lazily the mainstream attempt to "debunk" using poor rhetorical tactics.

There are only two articles used as "evidence" to support the idea that "Tartaria" is a baseless conspiracy -

Inside the wild architecture conspiracy theory gaining traction online

Inside the ‘Tartarian Empire,’ the QAnon of Architecture

The ancient empire of Tartaria is at the centre of a conspiracy theory that’s growing online, spread via YouTube and Reddit, where more than 14,000 people regularly engage with what’s been called “the Qanon of architecture”.

Circular logic used here - the only other place its been referred to as the Q-anon of architecture is in the second article. This is a common tactic used in media to discredit - seed an earlier article into media and then refer to it as "truth" later in a second article. The only people calling it Qanon architecture are the people who write debunking articles, what a surprise.

Even old maps of our country from the early 19th century could be proof of the empire’s existence, because who named all of those places on the map? Tartaria fans believe it couldn’t possibly have been the puny Englishmen sent here to club seals.

While I don't know much about the origins of NZ, something tells me their explanation of "puny english clubbing seals" isn't the full story, either.

They weren’t part of an empire; they were residents of a massive region with many different cultures lumped together into “Tartary” by Europeans who didn’t care to understand the area beyond its association with Ghengis Khan.

Using the resources available on this site to learn more about Tartary - this has been shown to be a low effort throwaway response to Tartary as an expansive civilization. Not only did they have flags, distinct borders on maps, kings, and large cities - they also likely had the same on the American continent. However if your only "source" is encyclopedia Britannica I could see where this idea would come as a surprise to the author.

The Tartarian theory was originated by pseudohistorians, who combined a Russian fervor for their lost empire (“Tartaria” being the supposed real name of Russia) with an alternative historical chronology; basically, all known historical events happened in a much shorter period of time than we are told.

What exactly defines a pseudohistorian? Is it someone without a college degree in history? Is it someone who has a historical theory that differs from the mainstream? Anyone who sees holes in the logic of modern science when it comes to virology and epidemiology is called a pseudoscientist - but as has become evident these pseudoscientific theories have proven to be more true than false. This is why I believe the modern definition of this is "theories we think are wrong". I would argue that NZ being founded by seal clubbers is pseudohistory - yet the cognitive dissonance does not seem to have registered with the author. After all - the author of this article is not a historian - by that logic they are on the same playing field as myself - someone with no former historical training by the education industrial complex - their theories stand on the same ground as mine. And if that is the case - the argument is to be judged on its merit alone - merit to which this author has provided little evidence for.

Robin Aitken, an architectural historian based in Wellington, was blunt when approached for comment on “Tartarian” architectural features: the mud everywhere, he said, was probably because of horses. “I think horses can answer for a lot of this,” he said. “Horse shit, horse hooves pounding the horse shit.” Another factor contributing to the mudslide-looking streets of the 1860s, he said, is that colonial cities were very slow to upgrade roads. “In the beginning chuck up some kitset colonial buildings and wait until the street is so fucked that you need to do something about it,” he said.

Anyone who has actually examined photos of this time period know that the city streets of the old world were in reality very well kept, especially in the larger cities. Horse shit was generally cleaned up and in some cases, recycled for methane gas fuel. This cultural layer babble in no way shape or form explains the mystery of buried structures, yet is allowed to exist as a pseudohistorical explanation for this buildup.

Regarding the slow buildup of roads - perhaps to some extent this is true, but it isn't the full story. Many of these structures are so brilliantly designed and particular - yet when it came to actually engineering these structures they couldn't care less where they were erected. So the psuedohistorical explanation is they were actually idiots who had no mind for civil engineering.

The only culprits Tartaria believers can point to is a nebulous new world order; the government, or shadow government, or deep state.

It is interesting that in the same article that paints englishman as "puny colonials who only sought to club seals" also is hesitant to admit that the "Colonial" powers of the day were, in fact, a new world order government attempting to establish global dominance in the 19th century. Even in the mainstream it is admitted that the colonial takeover involved the destruction of native history, and the lives of untold amounts of people. Somehow making that connection to this theory is entirely lost on these psuedohistorians.

“Most, if not all of our cultural history has been fabricated. Racial identity was something the controllers brought in to divide us,” he said. “Tartaria was a worldwide civilisation that lived in harmony, and had access to technology that we could only dream of.”

This quote comes from a YTer the author decided to interview for this writeup - I have never heard of King Dave, nor watched any of their videos. I believe this is his channel - certainly a modest one, with quite a few videos on this topic. Certainly there are much larger channels on alternative history out there, but I suppose it made sense to reach out to someone who is local to NZ to write the story. However - this view proffered by King Dave is indicative of exactly why this topic gets shit on by the mainstream. Its not enough that a globe spanning civilization was destroyed over the course of hundreds of years - they were also the ancient world equivalent of hippies with spaceships. Never has it been proven that Tartary was responsible for the ancient energy grid system that exists on the planet, and certainly there is no evidence these people lived in complete harmony.

Some Māori pā and redoubts, he said, are actually buried “star forts” (Tartarian military bastions).

Again - a complete overgeneralization and frankly disingenuous description of what starforts may have been in the past. Apparently in the same breath of "tartary was living in harmony" they also have "military bastions". A contradiction I'd imagine was put in on purpose in order to discredit this YTer. That said - I also generally disagree with the theories put across by King Dave - a type of nuance that is entirely missing from this article. Perhaps if this author spent less time on wikipedia and interviewing micro-niche YTers and more time looking into the sheer amount of available content on this site and even on other YT channels, they would understand there is a lot more to this story than appears. That, of course, is wishful thinking at its finest.

TLDR: in an ironic twist, this site is actually better at “debunking tartaria” than the mainstream is.

 

[iseidon]

Regardless of where you fall on the "tartarian conspiracy theory" it really amazes me how lazily the mainstream attempt to "debunk" using poor rhetorical tactics.

There are only two articles used as "evidence" to support the idea that "Tartaria" is a baseless conspiracy -

Perhaps the mainstream is using a strategy of "the less said about something, the fewer people will know about it.

After all, if you start actively (on the part of official science and history) to debunk the myth of the "Tartarian" past, underground cities and other things, many people will start to study hundreds of cities for information about underground tunnels, passages, etc.

Then it won't be possible to build up theories about private cases (foreign engineers who build sewers; slave owners who use tunnels to secretly transport slaves from one place to another; hiking sites for the wealthy, etc.) in each individual city.