"Tartaria" is a myth and didn't exist

[LyteTouch]

New info on Tartaria PUTIN declassified the TARTARIA archives. The official history is FALSE

PUTIN declassified the TARTARIA archives. The official history is FALSE​

Geography, Hidden History, Lemuria (Mu)


PUTIN declassified the TARTARIA archives. The official history is FALSE



From Encyclopedia Britannica, first edition, Volume 3, Edinburgh, 1771, p. 887:



How did the Great Tartarus disappear from geographical maps in the 18th century? And why has the total falsification of world history become possible?
The Moscow Kremlin website reports in 2017:
Vladimir Putin met with the former President of Tatarstan, now the State Councilor of the Republic of Tatarstan, Mintimer Shaimiev, to present him with a gift – the map of Tartarus, made by the seventeenth-century Dutch cartographer Willem Blau. VIDEO
WHAT IS TARTAR?
What is the significance of Putin’s gift, observers wonder. The Dutch cartographer Willem Janszon Blau, whose work Putin presented as a gift to Shaimiev, was the greatest specialist in Tartarus.
On the gold-framed map presented to Shaimiev, the territory of northeastern Eurasia from the Volga and the Caspian Sea from the west to the eastern ocean belongs to Tartarus. At the same time, the countries of Siberia, Central Asia and the Far East are shown to be under the control of the great inn. This, in particular, is reported by the TASS agency. The map also shows the borders of Tartarus, the genealogy of the great Han temples of Chingiz, as well as Little Tartary (Crimea), Great or Asian Tartarus, Tartaria, Desert Tartarus, Chagataisky ulus, Turkestan, the Kingdom of China and Old Tartarus.
According to the Encyclopedia Britannica of 1771, Tartaria was a huge country. The encyclopedia offers the following definition of this gigantic state, plunged into the darkness of centuries: “Tartaria, a huge country in northern Asia, bordering Siberia in the north and west, called the Great Tartarus. The Tartars who live south of Moscow and Siberia are called Astrakhan, Cherkask and Dagestan, those who live in the northwestern Caspian Sea are called Kalmyk Tatars and occupy the territory between Siberia and the Caspian Sea; Uzbek Tatars and Mongols, who live north of Persia and India, and finally Tibetans, who live in northwest China. ”
Business Online asked its experts what such an unusual gift presented to Shaimiev could mean and what it means.
Damir Iskhakov – Chief Researcher of the Ethnological Monitoring Center of the Institute of History of the Academy of Sciences of the Republic of Tatarstan: There are many such maps showing Tartarus – Little Tartarus and the Great Tartarus. Until the eighteenth century, European cartographers used this term.
At school we are taught that before the advent of Christianity we were all almost wild people. However, many facts contradict these fictions. For example, in the Encyclopedia Britannica of 1771, the land of our ancestors is described as the largest and most developed state called the Great Tartarus. There are many documents and maps that support this. Some of them are in the Russian Geographical Society. These and other artifacts, such as the Chandar plate, testify to us that the level of development of the civilization of our ancestors was incomparably higher than what we learn, as official history tries to convince us. This level is even higher than the current level of development of our civilization.
Why did they hide the plates from Tărtăria?
Our past – the Great Tartarus
The past of the Aryan Slavs is the past of our earthly civilization. There is already a lot of truthful information! You just have to look for them and popularize them as much as possible among all the peoples who want to know the truth…
The movie “Great Tartary – Empire of the Russian” tells the true story.
The Great Tartarus was and remains the greatest power in the world, which the world’s elites are trying to break into small pieces – specific principalities that would be easier to conquer to destroy the population…
Putin declassified the Tartar archives
Original by: Posted by u/One-Ad6450


Notes on the Language of Tartaria:
Yes, and no.
To peel back this onion you need to “un-babble” the church’s counterintelligence and other assorted misdirection.
The tablets are not in Hungarian per-se, they’re in the language modern Hungarian is based on which is now being called “magyar”.
The name itself is somewhat tongue-in-cheek. This is not it’s real name, the name used by the people actually speaking the language, it’s the label that is used to obfuscate what it really is and to hide it in plain sight. But, we will use the term for now since it’s easy to Google.
The language base called Magyar is the linguistic origin of Sumerian, Etruscan, Dacian “first civilization” peoples as well as many others. Sounds ridiculous given the timeline we are all indoctrinated with, but it’s true:
LÁSZLÓ BOTOS
Magyar-Etruscan affiliations
“The presence of the Magyar language at such an extensive geographic spread going into ancient times is the proof of a once unified world-language of which the longest surviving remnant is the Magyar. “
Also, please don’t get hung up on the modern idea of Hungary, Romania, Poland, Ukraine, etc. – these are all blinds to hide the common ancestry of these peoples and languages, what we would modernly call the Sauromatian peoples of Scythia. These people have been mentioned before on the forums and are a key to understanding the war that’s been waging between the old and new factions. That’s a whole ‘nother can of worms.
Hungarian prehistory – Wikipedia
“Most extant chronicles show that the earliest works contained no information on the history of the Hungarians before their conversion to Christianity in the 11th century.[35] The only exception is the Gesta Hungarorum, which is the earliest extant Hungarian chronicle, whose principal subject is the Magyars’ pagan past.[37]”
The Gesta is one of the few surviving original texts of these peoples. Or at least that’s still accessible. Its a link back to the truth before the propaganda war began.
In any case, the Tartaria tablets actually mention and show the “Sumerian” god Enki (Aquarius), that’s what the little guy with the fish tail is standing next to the goat (Capricorn). Also note the little sprig of wheat between the two, which is the same as shown in the “Sumerian” seal on the right. Same language. Different parts of the world. Different artistic flare.
View attachment 25443 View attachment 25444 View attachment 25445
There were several types of alphabet used on this base language depending on the part of the world you were in and the time period. Coelbren was one of the earliest and was used for trade throughout the British isles, Mediterranean, Turkey, and North America all the way through China. There was also more than one form of coelbren, one of which we now call ogham. These are not “Celtic”, there was no such thing as Celtic. Total myth created in the 1800s to fill a hole caused by hiding the other groups. A modern term and idea and part of the great misdirection.
In the above Alan Wilson link he mentions the “Cimmerians” using coelbren. Cimmerians are the same word as Sumerians. Pretty obvious if you just say them out loud.
All forms of Coelbren can be read omnidirectionally as can it’s cousin Cuneiform. They can both be translated with the same base language. Its useful as a trade language as everyone sitting around the table can read the same document at the same time without the need to pass the paper around or flip it.
Now, is this the later Tartarian language referenced earlier? Yes, kinda. Magyar is the base of that language, but they were using a different common alphabet later in the empire. Coelbren had long been replaced with the advent of printing. What you’re seeing is an evolution in a single language, not necessarily different languages.
Also, just a fun aside. The pretty “nordic pagan” tattoo symbols so in vogue these days are a multidirectional sigiled form of the coelbren/ogham on the right (book of Ballymote). Right in front of everyone’s faces, yet no one is literate enough to read them.

Its an interesting history thats dropping in on big $ billion shows like Amazon Prime's Ring of Power. If Tartaria was fake then why the interest to destroy it? The Freemasons had an interest in politically destroying it and rebuilding the region in the mid 19th century. I have the magazine issue The Freemasons Magazine and Masonic Mirror 1865-04-15 as admitted by them. It was connected to a large amount of other things. It beats both the narratives coming from the Kremlin and the declassification from the CIA.

 

[wisdomkeeper]

Call it Tartaria, Call them the past reset civilization, call them the romans/greeks, call it Atlantis, Gods intelligent design, Titans, Giants, Days of Noah, Days of Jesus, Babylon. Call it mystical/magical/angelically manifested on a higher plane and somehow bound into form and matter to this realm. All we really know is something very miraculous is responsible for whats left behind of these building that stand all around, and below us, across the world. We know our history is a fabrication, none of what was taught in mainstream education can be trusted at this point. We have no ability match or even come close to what was done in the past. Our understanding, engineering and construction practices even now falls way short and we lost the spiritual and geometrical knowledge to the purpose and the function of why build to this precision and with this sacred geometry flower of life type template or baseline scale to the entire structure. It must resonate between all seen and unseen dimensions as the flower of life sacred geometry pattern, that can give rise to all other geometric patters like its the fabric or canvas that the creation is formed from.

Not too sure but I think were going to figure something very important out about this topic now that many people can see through the illusion and are digging deep for answers. They did a good job hiding the past and destroying the records but they won't have caught everything. Just a matter of time before somebody who is searching finds something they're looking for and blows this topic wide open and destroys the fictional reality thats been cast upon us.

Seek To Know Truth So The Truth May Guide You Onward

 

[Jd755]

All we really know is something very miraculous is responsible for whats left behind of these building that stand all around, and below us, across the world.

Pick a building. I guarantee its built to level and plumb ergo humans built them.

 

[Nick Weech]

View attachment 18703
Tartary, a vast country in the northern parts of Asia... This is called Great Tarary (1771, Encyclopedia Britannica)​

As we got many new users during the last months, some from Youtube, I think it's time to start a thread on this topic.

Many people in the alternative history community believe there was a unified civilization until recently, and that it was called "Tartaria". The idea of calling this civilization "Tartaria" is mostly being spread on Reddit and Youtube, and is being promoted by Youtubers who earn money with creating an almost religious following.

Read this to get an overview of previous research on Tartaria: SH Archive - Tartary - an Empire hidden in history. It was bigger than Russia once...

I think everyone who uses the term Tartaria to describe the Old World continues to cement a misleading view of alternative history.

While Tartary itself was real, it was not what many people now think it was. I do think there once was a unified civilization, with a unified architecture. But "Tartary" is a wrong name for it.

The myth came about when Russians started to realize that before their country was called Russia, it was named "Tartaria" on old maps. And it didn't only span Russia, but most of Asia.

Tartaria was split into different parts - Russian (Muscovite) Tartary, Chinese Tartary, etc.

Later some people found evidence that there were remains of Tartaria in America, mostly Western America, too. So the idea spread that Tartaria was literally everywhere.

And this is where things started to move into the wrong direction. In reality, Tartaria was simply a geographic area in Asia, with some of those Tartarians also influencing the American culture.

There is nothing more to it. It was part of the "Old World", but it wasn't exclusively the Old World.

So using the term Tartaria everytime one speaks about this old world cements a misleading view of a Slavic-centric world, where for some reason Russian culture dominated everything else.

To this date, not a single proof has been presented why this geographically limited region in Asia called "Tartary" was worldwide.

It is now simply a meme, and in my view it is a dangerous meme, because it limits our possibilities of what the Old World really was.

View attachment 18704
Country Flag of Tartary, independent of China, indeed suggesting a political structure. Another map here.​

Yes, Tartary was somehow forgotten after the communist revolution. Yes, Tartary was probably not a geographical area but a kingdom of sorts, with a flag and political unity. Yes, it was probably powerful at one point. Yes, Tartarian influence extended probably to America. No, it was not a worldwide advanced civilization that somehow dominated all of the other kingdoms we see on old maps.

View attachment 18665​

A quick glance on the oldest maps of Tartary show that not the entire world was Tartary, surprinsigly.​

South of Tartary you see Arabia, Persia, India, China and Japan. To the West is Europe.

If anything, Tartary should be understood as a symbol for forgotten knowledge - that's why we have the Tartary Griffin in our logo.

I will use this thread to collect more information on this, with the goal to publish an extensive article on this topic, wich can be provided as a reference whenever the topic of Tartary comes up.

Many scientists from Western Europe considered the Great Tartary a huge empire stretching from the Urals to the Pacific Ocean. For example, the Italian diplomat and Jesuit Giovanni Botero in his work “Universal Relation” (Relationi universali), dated 1595, wrote that this country used to be called Scythia. And it occupies half of Asia, in the west bordering on the Volga region, and in the south – with China and India. At the same time, the lands of a huge empire on one side are washed by the waters of the Caspian Sea, and on the other by the Bering Sea.​

​

Another representative of the Jesuit order – the French Orientalist Jean-Baptiste Duhalde – in 1735 published a scientific work entitled “Geographical, historical, chronological, political and physical description of the Chinese Empire and Chinese Tartary.” In his opinion, in the west this huge country borders with Muscovy, in the south – with Mongolia and China, from the north this state is washed by the Arctic Sea, and the East Sea separates Tartarius from Japan.​

Where was the Great Tartary? | Earth Chronicles News

The pseudohistorical conspiracy theory about Great Tartaria first appeared in Russia, popularized by Nikolai Levashov, and in Anatoly Fomenko’s New chronology. In Russian pseudoscience, known for its nationalism, Tartaria is presented as the "real" name for Russia, which was maliciously "ignored" in the West (for example, the 2011 film "Great Tartary - Empire of the Rus", posted on YouTube). Since about 2016, conspiracy theories about the supposed lost empire of "Tartaria" have gained some steam on the English-speaking part of the Internet.​

​

The conspiracy is based mostly on a misunderstanding of architectural history. Adherents suppose that demolished buildings such as the Singer Building, or the temporary grounds of the 1915's World's Fair were actually the buildings of a vast empire based in Tartary that has been suppressed from history. Sumptuously styled Gilded Age buildings are often held out as really having been built by the supposed Tartaria. The conspiracy is very light on details, and only vaguely describes how such a supposedly advanced civilization which had reputedly achieved world peace could have fallen and been hidden. The idea that a "mud flood" wiped out much of the world and thus old buildings is common, supported only by the fact that some buildings have basements which had windows. World War I & II are cited as a way in which Tartaria was destroyed and hidden, reflecting the reality that the extensive bombing campaigns of World War II did destroy many historic buildings. The general evidence for the theory is that there are similar styles of building around the world, such as capital buildings with domes, or star forts. However, such designs exist globally due to colonialism by empires such as Britain, Spain, and Portugal, not some lost empire such as Tartaria. The theory reflects a cultural discontent with modernism, and a supposition that traditional styles are inherently good and modern styles are bad.​

Tartary - Wikipedia

It ties in with idea of the megalithic civilisation I first heard via Mick Harper. Mostly buried among dross

 

[wisdomkeeper]

I wish I could read Russian and also gain access to their foreign records. Nothing found in the west thats allegedly translated to english and released to the narrative aint going to be legit. They just make all kinds of nonsense claims that they say Russia is doing or saying placing their own narratives as the translation.

Tartaria is found on countless maps from different parts of the world, it appears as commonly known as any other also mentioned in many writings as well. Its definitely something much more then a myth at the very least.

I remember when science claimed the giant squid was a myth as well. And that men walked on the moon, that they know the universe is 14 billion years old and once gigantic lizards walked the earth in a made up time so ancient that know person could comprehend so a time frame or know anything about it, were it even fact.

 

[jafa]

Breakthrough! In October 2022 THE FIRST TIME IN MODERN HISTORY in Kazan (Russia) the official international scientific seminar (organized by the Russian Academy of Science) was held with the following agenda: “From Tartaria Empire to Peter’s Russian Empire”. This is THE FIRST TIME the official science put a name Tartaria on the map. Not Tatars… TARTARIA. This is trully historical event. Apologies, there is no English translation, but Google translator can help. There are slso few videos on the subject

Международный научный семинар "От империй Тартарии к Российской империи Петра". Открытие

View: https://youtu.be/cd-7IMBGsOg

 

[Jd755]

Using Google translate we get this.

International scientific seminar "From the empires of Tartaria to the Russian Empire of Peter". Opening to Official KFU

December 07, 2022

The beginning of the second stage of the symposium dedicated to the 350th anniversary of Peter the Great. The participants included representatives of leading academic centers, leading universities of the country, fruitfully cooperating with Kazan Federal University. The event is held within the framework of a grant allocated by the Foundation for the History of the Fatherland

The papers were presented as part of the International Scientific Symposium "On the Shoulders of Giants: Peter the Great and Russia's Imperial Experience in the Context of World History" at the Institute of International Relations of KFU

"Within the framework of a grant allocated by the Foundation for the history of the Fatherland".
Call me cynical but an outcome guaranteed sort of limiting device it seems to me.

 

[Deleted member 37]

"Within the framework of a grant allocated by the Foundation for the history of the Fatherland".
Call me cynical but an outcome guaranteed sort of limiting device it seems to me.

By the look of it, it seems more like some kind of 'answer' to Fomenko's New Chronology. A sort of late attempt to adjust things after having ridiculed them for many decades.

 

[Jd755]

By the look of it, it seems more like some kind of 'answer' to Fomenko's New Chronology. A sort of late attempt to adjust things after having ridiculed them for many decades.

Until its translated we will never know.

 

[ViniB]

Pick a building. I guarantee its built to level and plumb ergo humans built them.

Maybe. I'm more interested on where tf all the mud that buried countless buildings across our realm came from, and truth be told, cultural layer my ass! that's the dumbest mainstream explanation ever

 

[Jd755]

Maybe. I'm more interested on where tf all the mud that buried countless buildings across our realm came from,

I am more interested in the now defunct process of mud burial. How it was allegedly able to bury countless buildings in good enough order they are dug out, but never back to original ground level, and turned to new uses.
A drawing/painting digger account or two would be most welcome.
As it is there is theory put forward by a Russian on livejournal who had no clue what he was taking photographs of.
Oh an endless endless chatter about windows and light wells, doorways in cellars and basements.

 

[jafa]

Breakthrough! In October 2022 THE FIRST TIME IN MODERN HISTORY in Kazan (Russia) the official international scientific seminar (organized by the Russian Academy of Science) was held with the following agenda: “From Tartaria Empire to Peter’s Russian Empire”. This is THE FIRST TIME the official science put a name Tartaria on the map. Not Tatars… TARTARIA. This is trully historical event. Apologies, there is no English translation, but Google translator can help. There are slso few videos on the subject

Международный научный семинар "От империй Тартарии к Российской империи Петра". Открытие

View: https://youtu.be/cd-7IMBGsOg

They started to quote Tartaria in school programs. It is already in school history books in Russia 6-7 grades:
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YaoC8MCed3A

 

[Deleted member 37]

They started to quote Tartaria in school programs. It is already in school history books in Russia 6-7 grades:
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YaoC8MCed3A

Here is the translation of the transcription provided by Youtube. Notice how the name Fomenko is mentioned as a joke:

Hello dear subscribers and
just viewers of my channel immediately want
thank everyone who supported me
kind words in the previous video
recognition of the empire of tartaria is common
achievement of many authors who
have been studying this subject for many years.
unfortunately almost no one
alternative bloggers including those
who were not mentioned in the comments
paid attention to this topic
Are they really the subject
support one thing go to
Armory Chamber of the Moscow Kremlin and
making a video about the Globe is another matter
look for confirmation that the Great
Tartaria was an empire or a state
some showed me that the name
video is incorrect and this seminar is not
was the recognition of the Great Tartary perhaps
Of course it's my fault and I didn't explain well
situations where scientists collect
press conference is invited by the leading media
countries later at this conference
declare literally the following we are 200 years old
wrong about history
Mongol-Tatar yoke of nomads
was and was the Empire of Tartaria and so
friends you will never hear this
history correction will be gradual i
I will even tell you more this correction already
is in full swing a little later I will bring
examples
thanks to everyone who responded to my
request and threw off the necessary examples from
screenshots indeed while we were sleeping
the word Tartaria has already got into school
history textbooks while interesting
what is written in the textbook for the sixth grade
the very same golden order of European
maps were listed as Tartarus or Tartaria
And in the history textbook for the seventh grade
already another interpretation I quote on the maps
At that time, Russia was designated as a country
barbarian dash Tartaria in quotation marks
however the tutorial was also placed
historical map on which there are two
words Tartary You can even find the word
Circassian tartars Although, of course, in the very
the textbook is difficult but this word is possible
see also in the atlas of history for
seventh grade was inserted part of the card
Remezov drawing map of Siberia with
inscription in Old Russian Great
Tartaria So what do you want further
claim that Tartaria was not
recognized as official science but the facts
they say otherwise, I understand perfectly
what's in the comments to the video to me
they will probably write literally the following Well
the word Tartaria appeared in textbooks
so what yes no friends my word
Tartaria for historians is very long
time was the worst curse
if at some conference or
seminar, someone from the audience or
journalists God forbid asked what
what is Tartaria, then historians literally
began to lose their temper
curses sometimes even obscenities and
remember that all cards of starters
this is the machinations of British intelligence
the word Tartaria did not just appear in
textbooks is the implementation of the plan for
gradual substitution of history Today I
I want to show how it has evolved
concept of the so-called
Mongol-Tatar yoke for the last 100
with little years to start let's
consider a 1917 history textbook
released in the city of Petrograd, that is,
under tsarist rule, the Bolsheviks on that
moment has not yet had time to write your
history textbook chapter 11 is called
Tatar conquest
a terrible disaster befell the Russian land
in the first half of the 13th century it was
The invasion of nomadic Tatars who
conquered Rus' itself
emergence of the Russian state
constantly suffered from the steppes
migrated from Asia to South Russian
steppes but never before the Tatars nomads
were such a huge number
they never spilled all over
the Russian plain never claimed
here the Tatars left their dominance
Central Asia from the steppes of Mongolia one
Tatar Khan, nicknamed Genghis Khan
have the Great Khan united under his
power separate wild tribes of Mongolia
and led them to conquer neighboring countries
having subjugated several
Asian states Genghis Khan moved
their hordes to the west intending
go to Europe here on the page there
image of a Tatar warrior let's
remember what he looked like in the future
I'll do some comparison now
I will quote an reader on the history of the USSR with
ancient times until the end of the 18th century
1989 It's almost over
Soviet Union chapter 5 wrestling russian
people and other peoples of our country with
Mongol-Tatar invasion in the 12th century
Mongolian tribes lived in
Central Asia more backward northern
forest tribes were engaged in hunting and
Angler while southern steppe nomadic
cattle breeding leaders of the Mongolian
Khan tribes and their nuker vigilantes
quickly enriched themselves, they owned huge
herds of horses, camels and sheep
the economy of the noble Mongols worked
ordinary community members Black people in quotation marks
and slave prisoners of war in 1206
the leader of one tribe united
Mongol-Tatars, under their rule, having collected
kurultai i.e. eat Mongolian
the feudal lords proclaimed Timuchin theirs
Khan under the name of Genghis Khan soon
conquests began
Genghis Khan and his generals Mongolian
the army was divided into tens of hundreds
thousands combined into tens of thousands
darkness in quotation marks hence the expression
mother of countless
the peoples who created
centers of ancient civilization in Asia and
Eastern Europe standing on more
high level of public and
cultural development than the conquerors
campaigns enriching the feudal elite
tore the Mongols away from peaceful labor and
hindered the progressive development
mongolian society end quote i
I don't think you can read further
everything is clear here
attention that if in the textbook of 1917
it was about Tatars here already Tatars
replaced by the Mongols and began to use
term Mongol-Tatars And now I
I will quote the textbook History of Russia for
sixth grade Edition Prosveshchenie Moscow
2016 chapter 15
Mongol Empire changes
political map of the world education
power of Genghis Khan from ancient times
endless steppes north of China
inhabited by various kindred tribes and
peoples Mongols Tatars Kereites and others
natural conditions of these steppes
predetermined the main occupation
nomadic peoples living here
cattle breeding during brutal wars
the Mongols at the beginning of the 13th century succeeded and
Unite neighboring nomadic tribes during
these wars, almost all Tatars were
exterminated, but the Mongols themselves became
known in China and then in other
Asian European countries under the name
Tatar historians sometimes call them
Mongol-Tatars at the convened in 1206
congress kurultai of the Mongolian nobility
Nyonov is a talented commander
energetic cunning and merciless
Lord Timuchin was proclaimed
Great Khan and named Genghis Khan then
there is a heavenly khan it meant
meant the creation of a unified Mongolian
states definition mongols in
quotation marks gradually spread to
all the tribes that were part of the original
the core of the Mongolian state chapter 18
formation of the Golden Horde
returning from a hike in the central
Europe
1242-1243 bloodworm became the ruler
own state originally
which was an ulus of the Mongol Empire
shortly after the death of Batu in 125
year this Ulus received full
independence later Behind the state
the name created by Batu was fixed
Golden Horde this state included
Northern Black Sea Coast Northern Crimea
Caucasus middle and lower Volga Urals
Western Siberia Khorezm at the beginning of the 14th century
The Golden Horde was one of the largest
states of the world in the Golden Horde
included many tribes and peoples Oni
were both sedentary and nomadic
life subservient to the nomadic population
supplied horses to the conquerors
were milk agricultural population
gave them most of her harvest
Mongolian nobility appropriated the best
lands and pastures at the head of the Golden Horde
Khan stood this title was carried by descendants
Genghis Khan Genghis Khan belonged to
all the lands and populations his power
relied on a huge army and
numerous officials end quote
Pay attention to how the substitution went
Now Rus' has attacked Muscovy Hello
everyone is not the darkness of the darkness of the nomadic Tatars, but
the whole Mongol Empire is the same
An empire that has no
traces in Mongolia neither cities nor
written monuments or looted
wealth, no graves of Genghis Khan, nothing
they couldn't find it in Mongolia
sometimes in the comments they present
claims they say I don't know history friends
my I remember the story According to the Soviet
textbooks but logically the more
time passes after
historical event the more in it
distortion occurs Well, either
Accordingly, this story somehow
how it will be corrected
go on And then gradually
the concept of the Mongol Empire will
be replaced by the concept of the empire of Tartary i
I want to show you an article from 2013
called the Legacy of the Golden Horde in
European cartography
15-18 centuries author Igor Konstantinovich
Fomenko No, this is not that Fomenko one of
authors of the new chronology is a historian
Senior Candidate of Historical Sciences
Cartography Department Researcher
state historical museum
it’s interesting that in his article he
although he talks about the Mongol Empire about
Golden Horde but all its sources
mention tartaria and here he is absolutely
correctly translates the king of tartaria king
Tartaria mentions Tartarus, that is, here
no complaints about him
no distortion except the most important
for some reason, instead of the empire of Tartaria
the historian believes that it was the Golden
Horde Well, wait, the Golden Horde has ceased
exist at the end of the 15th century A Empire
Tartaria on maps exists until the 19th century
As far as I understand it will
there is a gradual adjustment
history concept Mongol Empire and
The Golden Horde will gradually cease
exist and instead of it there will be an Empire
tartaria at least want it
hope there won't be another
distortion of history
With artifacts of the great tartaria too
there will be no problems for example coins
After all, it has long been known that all coins
found in Russia with
Arabic script is by default assigned to
Golden Horde, for example, coins can
see on the site goskatalak.ru in the search
enter the phrase Golden Horde and
find more than 12 thousand exhibits
order note here there is a number
coins that are marked as not
definable but still worth it Gold
Horde, that is, Even those Coins that are not
managed to determine still refer to
Golden Horde to that state which
not on any historical map A
now let's go back to the image
Tatar warrior in the Soviet textbook from
1917 and After all, this is how they portrayed
Mongol-Tatars in old Soviet films
war were wearing oriental robes But what
we see in our time in our time
Mongol-Tatars depict iron armor
in iron helmets
for example in the TV series The Golden Horde in the movie
2017 Legend of the Great Kolovrat
Khan is generally depicted with a dragon on his back
and on the tent by the advisers of the Great Khan
are Chinese and again looking at this
the image arises the thought Well, what are
these are nomads, of course I understand that
after such films, historians usually
deny and say that none
there is no historical Truth there, but on the other
side A historian, how to know how
everything was actually these films
create an image if in the middle of the 20th century
the image of the Mongol Tatars was in the form of backward
nomads who won only
most now it's an image
a serious empire that had mines
iron processing and technical
equipment was high enough
level, otherwise how could this Empire
conquer most of Eurasia
thank you all for watching today
this video please vote for
this video and give your opinion on
content until the next release

 

[Brett]

There is also the matter of history discussed in the early 19th century - from American Antiquities and Discoveries in the West, 1832

I’d like to share some research that pertains to this, because I find the perspectives of those alive at the turn of the 19th century intriguing.
Philip Gatch (1751-1834) was a very early settler in the Northwest Territory in what is now the state of Ohio. Originally from Maryland, this Methodist preacher purchased land in the NW Territory and moved his family west after he was maimed in Baltimore over his opposition to slavery. He ultimately acquired and settled on land near the confluence of the Little Miami and the East Fork rivers, in what became a part of present day Milford, Ohio. On his land were numerous earthworks, mounds, and enclosures that he discusses in his papers.

Mr. Gatch observes: This beautiful land has been a hidden space to civilization for many ages. There are traces in many parts of ancient fortifications, and other works, which could not have been made by the Indians, but by a people much farther advanced in civilization than they now are. The growths of timber upon these works, consisting of mounds and elevated embankments, seem to be the same as on the ground generally, which shows their great antiquity. What people or race constructed these works is not now known, and probably never will be. Some think these formations were before the flood, but this notion, it appears to me, is refuted, by timbers being found in the earth at a great depth. I saw timber that was found on digging a well on high land; also, by salt-water shells being found in high places.
-Sketch of Rev. Philip Gatch

He elaborates on his thoughts in an essay written in 1829.

America was certainly settled before the Indians inhabited it: the vast enclosures by walls and the mounds raised some of them to a great h[e]ight; which are made with great exactness, assure us that a laborious and ingenious People, once inhabited this country.
I am inclined to think that the Chinese & Tartars once dwelt here: the Chinese are a laborious people possessed of mechanical ingenuity. The Indians know nothing of these establishments, as a man informed me that lived with them many years. History says that China surpasses all other countries in roads and canals, the great canal that connects Pekin with Nankin is 500 miles long; there is the great wall, which they built along the whole of their frontiers, to preserve them from the intrusions of the Tartars (who were a troublesome people)[;] it is said to be 1500 miles in length, built of brick and stone 25 feet high and so thick that six horsemen can ride abreast on the top of the wall. The Tartars have been the enemies of the Chinese, and by a breach made in their wall they have interrupted them; but they are now divided and many of them have been destroyed. The Chinese are very cautious of let[t]ing any other people among them. And my thoughts are that the Chinese and Tartars once lived in America, and the Tartars so harassed the Chinese that they left this country, and the Tartars followed them for the sake of plundering them.
-Untitled essay by Rev. Philip Gatch

Gatch, who was admittedly not at all a historian, seems to with his writings propose that the Chinese and Tartars both migrated from the Americas to Asia, and that the “Indian” inhabitants which the European settlers encountered were remnants of the Lost Tribes of Israel who came after the Chinese and Tartars moved on.

 

[trismegistus]

I’d like to share some research that pertains to this, because I find the perspectives of those alive at the turn of the 19th century intriguing.
Philip Gatch (1751-1834) was a very early settler in the Northwest Territory in what is now the state of Ohio. Originally from Maryland, this Methodist preacher purchased land in the NW Territory and moved his family west after he was maimed in Baltimore over his opposition to slavery. He ultimately acquired and settled on land near the confluence of the Little Miami and the East Fork rivers, in what became a part of present day Milford, Ohio. On his land were numerous earthworks, mounds, and enclosures that he discusses in his papers.


He elaborates on his thoughts in an essay written in 1829.


Gatch, who was admittedly not at all a historian, seems to with his writings propose that the Chinese and Tartars both migrated from the Americas to Asia, and that the “Indian” inhabitants which the European settlers encountered were remnants of the Lost Tribes of Israel who came after the Chinese and Tartars moved on.

I am curious what type of information these authors from the early 1800s had that led them to conclude that Tartars and Chinese were over in America. It's been a little while since I've read Priest's book you quoted from me, but if I recall he seemed to think that Tartars expanded from the steppes to America, in the process wiping out the mound builders. This author seems to have the opposite approach, but with the same general cast of characters. I'd like to know how common this was in literature of those days, and more importantly why isn't it discussed now?

 

[Brett]

I am curious what type of information these authors from the early 1800s had that led them to conclude that Tartars and Chinese were over in America. It's been a little while since I've read Priest's book you quoted from me, but if I recall he seemed to think that Tartars expanded from the steppes to America, in the process wiping out the mound builders. This author seems to have the opposite approach, but with the same general cast of characters. I'd like to know how common this was in literature of those days, and more importantly why isn't it discussed now?

It is interesting that the cast of characters is the same. One possibility that would apply to Gatch would be that he, being born to religious Prussian parents, had been taught various histories in the home. Upon finding that his land had been heavily inhabited by a prehistoric culture, he filled in the blanks with his personal (limited?) knowledge of the world.

It also seems that based on the commentary in the essay I shared, written by an academic descendant of Gatch, he had an annotated version of the Bible containing various content/insights that surprises the academic. I am neither Methodist nor Mormon, but I must point out that Gatch’s (and many others’ assumably) discussion of the lost tribe theory pre-dates The Book of Mormon. I suspect many of these theories (lost tribes, Chinese/Tartars, pre/post-flood, etc.) were common religious literature of the time which led to discussion amongst the religious circles.

And I specify religious because the secular parties of the time seemed hellbent on destroying all the evidence. This is why I think Gatch and Priest are much closer to the truth than those that proposed primitive people built the works who were later annihilated by a comet or other peoples - why rush to destroy the latter?

 

[trismegistus]

. I suspect many of these theories (lost tribes, Chinese/Tartars, pre/post-flood, etc.) were common religious literature of the time which led to discussion amongst the religious circles.

I suspect something similar. So the next step is to find those sources of religious education that taught these things as some type of truth. Was this a commonly held opinion or was this seen as heretical? Since it was the printed word in an era where only the well connected elite had access to the printing press, I’d imagine it would have to have been somewhat acceptable discourse in order to get published.

I have found a lot of sources referencing Tartaria in older texts but I would say an overwhelming majority of them, if not all, are educational in nature not religious. It seems we have a missing piece of the puzzle.

 

[Jd755]

Since it was the printed word in an era where only the well connected elite had access to the printing press, I’d imagine it would have to have been somewhat acceptable discourse in order to get published.

According to my 1897 encyclopedia the first printing press in the Americas was established at Cambridge Massachusetts in 1638.
By established it reads to me either a physdical machine inc type was imported or the machine was built locally and the type imported.

 

[trismegistus]

Attempting to research Josiah Priest (author of American Antiquities) leads mostly to a dead end, specifically how someone who they claim has little education had the influence to get their books published and distributed.
Wiki certainly seems to have a narrative ready to explain this guy:

Josiah Priest (1788–1861) was an American nonfiction writer of the early 19th century. His books and pamphlets, which presented both standard and speculative history and archaeology sold in the thousands. Although Priest appears to have been poorly educated, he attempted to portray himself as an authority in his books. Priest is often identified as one of the creators of pseudoscientific and pseudohistoric literature.[1] Although his work was widely read and several of his works were published in multiple editions, his books were characterized by theories that were used to justify the violent domination over both the Native American and African-American peoples. Priest's works were among the most overtly racist of his time. Priest's offensive works help set the stage for the Trail of Tears and the defense of slavery that contributed to the conflicts of the American Civil War.

Oh no, it turns out I've been discussing the most racist author of his time! I've never read his other book about Slavery, I'd imagine it has some takes I will likely disagree with (not that I take his words about Tatars and the mound builders as gospel either, but I digress) but this is about as clear a hit job on any past historical figure you can find on wiki.

The historical gatekeepers appear to treat Rev. Gatch much more favorably, but interestingly enough his thoughts on early american history are never mentioned on his wiki page, not even as "pseudohistory" like they do with Priest. I suppose what is important to know about him is that unlike the notorious racist Priest he actually promoted the freedom of slaves.

So we have a Reverend who loved slaves, and a man named Priest who wasn't a religious figure who hated slaves. That is about as much as the modern historical narrative will tell you about those two. What is missing is how these two men reached the same conclusion about early American history with having any real connection (Gatch died around the same time Priest published American Antiquities).

The only connection I can find inbetween the lines is both men frequently traveled all over the country - Priest did so in an attempt to write his books, and Gatch was on the methodist preacher circuit. Both clearly spent time in Ohio, as that is where much of their reasoning on the past is based. Were they talking to the same people in those areas? Were there people in Ohio who had word of mouth traditions that lasted until the 19th century?

 

[Brett]

Was this a commonly held opinion or was this seen as heretical?

I don’t want to dwell on Philip Gatch too much longer in this thread, but I would say that he was never viewed as heretical by his contemporaries. He was a key figure in establishing the town of Milford and the constitution of the State of Ohio. He was appointed without his knowledge or consent to be a Justice of the Peace which required establishing local and county courts, which he reluctantly accepted. He was certainly held in very high esteem.

It seems we have a missing piece of the puzzle.

It is certainly a route I am pursuing, that being the personal papers of individuals who were among the first to settle in the Northwest Territory; particularly religious men who saw it their calling to share and be humble yet outspoken.