The Founding Fathers of the United States and the Ethno Religious State

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Username: dejavu
Date: 2020-07-05 13:30:38
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I do not see any evidence that they were Christian in the same sense that most people think of Christian.

This is what I'm picking up on too because in the thread there is reference to British Christian being different somehow from American Christian. But to complicate matters, then there is reference that the Freemasons do not reflect Christianity, so what is the British Christian ideology that the Founding Fathers held? This is where the whole secret knowledge mysteries are rooted. It's hard to examine what is presented without really delving into the ideology and practices so traditions and religion are going to fall in the mix somehow. Trying to keep it on point with the OP as much as possible though.

If we could crack the code on who they really were/are, we’d be further along. They were NOT who we’ve been told and our belief in them has prevented us from solving this problem of what is REALITY?

I think we are both trying to get at the same thing but we are coming at it from different positions, which is ok because we all have our way of processing it. I think it's good to have different perspectives to work from.
 
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Username: RTP now
Date: 2020-07-05 15:01:13
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I really don’t know what to think because whenever I think I’m closer, I quickly realize I’m not. I have decided to be as emotionally detached as possible and simply examine whatever evidence we have.

I do feel that the combination of the past narrative and the current events unfolding will help if we look carefully and ask the proper questions.
 
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Username: Onijunbei
Date: 2020-07-05 15:24:17
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well, to DejaVu, their were indeed several Christian factions that set up shop in what we refer to as America. The people themselves were mainly Christian but the People (the Government) show very little signs of following that faith.
 
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Username: Son of a Bor
Date: 2020-07-05 15:33:00
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Regarding light versus darkness imagery in the New Testament, even if you skew a literal meaning, please note:

I used to have a lot of fun with people of Asian ancestry. I’d put my arm up against theirs and ask: Who has lighter or whiter skin?

My mom was “100% Norwegian”, dad was Croatian and British. Both blue eyed. Me, darker than many Asians. But I look pretty white with brown eyes.

Maybe I should buy a wig and powder it?

In other words, you really gotta be kidding...
 
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Username: Divine Wind
Date: 2020-07-05 15:50:56
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As I suggested in my last post, Christianity was the majority religion of the founding fathers, but the Freemasonic influence became stronger and stronger, such that when they had enough dodgy guys at the top, they generally promoted their own such that even if the majority at the time were still Christians, they didn't have enough top men to keep promoting themselves to the most prominent and powerful positions. How many decent people today are in positions of power or influence ?

List of presidents of the United States who were Freemasons - Wikipedia
That is 18 out of 45 presidents. These days, you don't need to be part of that organisation to proceed, as the real power is always behind the scenes, and there were other underground organisations such as Skull and Bones, Fat Hat, Bohemian Grove etc
List of Skull and Bones members - Wikipedia 2 more presidents
6 Secret Societies Presidents Have Belonged To 3 more presidents = 23/45 in total
If you check out other secret societies, it's full of important players, and not just the presidents.


Freemasonry and Washington D.C.'s Street Layout
These layouts were designed in 1791 just a few short years after the war of Independance. I'm sure that many didn't fully understand these designs when they were detailed, but they do show intent, control and sheer bloody mindedness to get these ideas fully constructed and to comply to an overall plan. Who designed them? I'm pretty sure they weren't Christians.

This isn't made up, check out where the pencil goes in the compass on the google map, it's Starbucks. The owl's eyes (all seeing) are definitely detailed. It's incredible that the Set Square just rolls past the White House (on a different line) and points to the Supreme Council Building, an exact distance that just happens to be equal to the distance from the Washington Monument to the Capitol Building. Lincoln's memorial is just a sideshow. The layout is telling you where the ultimate power would end up, and it doesn't appear to be anywhere near the White House. What are the chances of this map all happening by accident?

washington layout 3.jpgwashington layout.gifwashington layout 4.jpg
Google Map - of above area, showing all details

freemason symbols.jpgfreemason symbols 2.jpgbohemian grove.jpg
 
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Username: RTP now
Date: 2020-07-05 17:07:12
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My question is this: what does you mean by: "Christianity was the majority religion of the founding fathers"? I ask this question because if we assume that it was, this does not mean that they were true believers or adherents who lived according to whatever the Christian precepts were/are.

This is what was included by the OP:

"The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence, were the general principles of Christianity, in which all those sects were united, and the general principles of English and American liberty, in which all those young men united, and which had united all parties in America, in majorities sufficient to assert and maintain her independence. Now I will avow, that I then believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God; and that those principles of liberty are as unalterable as human nature and our terrestrial, mundane system."
- John Adams, Letter to Thomas Jefferson, June 28, 1813

Again, here we have the following: "were the general principles of Christianity". What does this mean? As I previously stated, I don't see any evidence that these people were REAL Christians as far as I have come to know the term. What would be helpful to me, is if someone more learned in the TRUE meaning of Christianity would tell me what it means. Given that all of the information the OP points to these people being very conscious and focused on making/keeping America a pure White nation, I listed a couple instances of what I would be contradictions in the official narrative.

From my limited knowledge, it seems to me that these people were inheritors of an advanced culture post some sort of cataclysm and decided to leverage a mixture of theologies - including magic/witch craft - to ensure that they and their descendants would maintain complete control of the social, political and economic system in perpetuity. It is possible that the previous civilization was based on "ancient" magic/rituals and the inheritors decided that it was worthwhile to mix some of those traditions with the "Christian" ones. In other words, they were made an offer they could not refuse because the previous culture was so much more advanced than the one they came from and therefore wanted to ensure the success of the new Union.

All speculation on my part because I do not see the Christian foundation unless Christianity is something totally different than what I was led to believe.
 
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Username: dejavu
Date: 2020-07-05 17:18:28
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Here we go. I think I'm starting to see it. The lower case "people" vs the upper case "People." This is going to be the key in trying to understand, imo. So the words have different intended meaning. Follow that and we can have a better chance of understanding what is being shared in this thread....the "People" and their ideology, ie, God or version of "Christianity." and how that played a role in the founding of this nation.
 
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Username: Son of a Bor
Date: 2020-07-05 17:32:55
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I forgot to add this link above. And it surely pertains:

When Jesus abandoned America, or why TPTB prefer Pagan Gods
 
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Username: Divine Wind
Date: 2020-07-05 17:57:44
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Unfortunately, until my very last post, I have been moderated such that some of my posts show up 3/6/12 hours or so after I have written them. so I was just confirming my last post which i think clarifies it, which I think you have missed as it is on another sheet. Look at the number of Masons who were identified at the outset of the American Republic.

"This link is stating that 9 of the 56 signers of the declaration of Independance were Masons
and then 13 out of the 39 signers of the Constitution were Masons"


My comment was, "as I suggested", but you are right, we don't actually know, but at the time most of the people in the US would have been Christian, and possibly going to Church once a week. Therefore, if the minority of the signers of the DOI and Constitution were defined Masons' then we must assume that most of the rest were Christians. Of course, many of them would have been highly ambitious and ruthless, but my assumption is that many of them were desparate to get a clean break from the British Empire which is why freedom of religion and expression was so important in the Constitution and subsequent Bill of Rights. If the majority were Masons', surely those documents wouldn't have been so good. Of course the underlying question is the status of the Virginia Company and whether the US just became a colony of the UK.

The fact that so many Europeans travelled to N America to start a new life, and live their own lives, with their own ideas and beliefs without interference from the Government surely cements that fact?

Also, look at what Adams said with respect to the foundations “The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.”

There can only be assumptions, but I suspect that the very people ensuring that the foundations were not laid on Christain principles could only be the Masons, as they were present and in positions of authority at the time. George Washington's statement in my first post here is telling, and the fact that he is so lauded, and continuously held up as the first President is telling. How many people have heard of Peyton Randolph? or the other guys?
The Forgotten Presidents (The presidents before George Washington)
 
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Username: Starmonkey
Date: 2020-07-05 19:03:27
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I should stay out, BUTIJUSTCAN'THELPMYSELF.
Labels don't mean anything. Walk into any congregation or caucus, cut a sample, and despite the overall appearance of gathering under one banner, ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE ARE DIFFERENT. No solidarity. A herd like mentality relating to safety in strength of numbers. Like any of it. Any club, denomination, sect... It's all division. Walls and fences.
I got one for ya. Watch "The Family" on Netflix or wherever you can, and let me know when you find Jesus. He's supposedly there somewhere...
And I mean the 2019 series not the 2013 movie.
 
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Username: RTP now
Date: 2020-07-05 19:39:31
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I, like all of you, am rethinking every aspect of the story we’ve been told. A big part of the story is that a bunch of religious and freedom seeking people got on wooden boats to get away from the Crown so as to worship according to their “Christian” desires. Well, it’s possible that a tiny sliver of this is true. However, given what are uncovering, it appears that most, if not ALL of this is nonsense. It’s more likely that ALL of the “Europeans” who came over here post 1492 were part of The Great Land Grab team sent over here post-reset. The had Agreement per the various Crowns but decided to do a switcheroo of terms to keep all the marbles.

My sense is that the Bill Of Rights and other changes to the Constitution were done to appease and or trick the “foot soldiers” who did the work.

I gotta go back and do a bunch more reading because I’m starting to see some patterns but cannot yet articulate them. I think what we’ve been told about what was taking place in Europe at the time that led these people to come here is completely false.

KD did a write-up on uniforms [Uniforms: Old World Order vs. New World Order] that had me thinking that these wars were one continuous planetary war between the old world and current controllers. I don’t buy any of the stories about the “founding” of this country or any country since 711.

Yes, some of these people may have been “Christians”, but I think they were mostly wolves using Christianity as an outer layer. They were principally master magician who played long ball according to the sky clock and therefore laid everything out for hundreds of years. I also think that the emphasis on race was likely a deceptive move on their part to permanently confuse and divide people. How else do you explain Jefferson’s public pronouncements against his 13 children with Sally Hemings?
 
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Username: dejavu
Date: 2020-07-05 20:31:37
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I know you were not responding to me directly but I would like to add this if I may.

I think this is why it's so difficult to have these kinds of conversations. I, for one, hope that my genuine search for understanding has not caused more division and pain. My goal is in trying to understand it from the filter that I have because I don't know any other way to do it. But I'm not trying to make it about religion, so I hope I have not added wood to that fire.

If anything, this thread has shown me that I did not "realize" the true intent of the words and actions that appear to have been manipulated and used to organize an ideology based system whereby the "People" did not include the "people" and in so doing, the whole narrative of the history of the Founding Fathers, Freemasons and foundation of this country is not as I thought. So now I'm left with trying to figure out what role it plays in the false historical narrative that we have, rather than if it is Christian or not, if I want to pursue it further.

I think the thread also shows that my mind, heart and spirit hold that we are all one and equal, so my hope is that we can all heal the wounds and come to appreciate each other with genuine love and care for humanity.
 
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Username: RTP now
Date: 2020-07-05 20:51:35
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It could be that I’m a bit odd, but I’ve not been offended in any way by anything that’s been shared thus far. Race, religion, sex and money are among the things we are NOT supposed to discuss. This makes think that these are important things we should discuss. I want to say for the record that nothing I’ve said was ever intended as a negative response or attack to anyone. English is not my native language even though I’ve spoken it for a long time. I’m still learning and somethings I say may be misinterpreted due to my own ignorance... my apology.

I am here to LEARN.
 
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Username: Starmonkey
Date: 2020-07-05 21:28:54
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Me neither. I just don't like unnecessary division.
We really don't know it all. There were so many factions, it's all just advertisement and enticement.
Too big for this thread. Too many vested interests.
Need to follow their continued exploits from OVER THERE, and besides a few hopeful idiots, it was much the same perpetuated propaganda over here.
I don't know about deeper into Europe... For more recent shenanigans anyway. Just good old western Europe and it's influences. Britain, for one, since they were more closely tied to the OP here. Some DUTCH, I suppose.
But, IMO if you look into the German, Spanish and French it seems as if they integrated more with the existing populace. In the US anyway. But we don't know much about the west coast yet. Clearly.
There's an old world Christianity I've come across in various stories. Persecuted by the Catholic sturch but more recent than the MSN.
But it seems more St Francis and nature related. Healing, craft, way of living more naturally. Homeopathy.
Maybe Jesus was just another witch.
?
 
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Username: dejavu
Date: 2020-07-05 21:56:30
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I would be interested to learn more about this as I don't think I've heard of it. I wonder if it has any relevance to this hidden ideology that we are trying to identify within this thread?

Interesting that you mention St. Francis. He is one character that I connected with during my Roman Catholic upbringing precisely because of his gentle, nature minded essence. Seemed so different from others, from what I can remember. Would like to learn more. We may have to start another thread for it in case it doesn't flow well with this one....or we can pursue through PM too. I'm game either way. :)
 
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Username: ScottFreeman
Date: 2020-07-06 00:00:29
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Makes perfect sense if there are more than one "Constitution" but that option never seems to make it into the conversation.

I hate to keep posting the same graphic but there's so much information in it. Ignore the red outline for this thread. I used it in another for another purpose. My reason for posting it here is as a reminder that more than one jurisdiction can exist in the same place at the same time just as a people/man (as opposed to legal person) can act in different capacities.

Notice there are three different Constitutions listed with slightly different names? Each is a service contract within a different jurisdiction and, while very similar in form, must then have it's own amendments. Some may be the same if they apply in more than one jurisdiction but some will not.

The Constitution for the united States of America (1787)
even this link re: finding copies published in 1825 doesn't touch on it and mislabels it to boot
The Constitution of the United States of America (1789)
The Constitution of the United States (1790)

Flow Chart of Authority - AVR.jpg
 
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Username: Starmonkey
Date: 2020-07-06 00:03:07
Reaction Score: 0
OMG. I literally blew my own mind with that one. Had to drop the mic for a bit...
WHAT IF since "THE BOOK" can't be proven in time and space, could be metaphor, could be allegory with a hyperbole thrown in here and there for good measure, Jesus could have actually been pagan. And elsewhere.
Healing... Nature...
THEN, I'm like what if he was training others to do what he did?...
THEN I fell back on what if he came after a major cataclysm or reset to help people figure out how to live and survive again and THEN teach certain gifted others to heal and work with the elements...
Kind of fits in with the whole PLAGUE, CRUSADES and our heritage thereafter.
The once and future king.
Makes sense with stamping out of herbology and nature religions and free living globally.
Always clicked with me in church growing up that the Romans and the Catholics were the same bunch, and they killed him and co-opted him like they do all. The Borg.
Then later in life, I thought he was probably a hippy or Rainbow Family...
But, here he is a pagan all along. PAN.
Hung from a tree like Odin.
ETC, ETC.
And "THEY" love to kill people and then vilify, Saint or martyr them. Dark knighthood.
 
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Username: Divine Wind
Date: 2020-07-06 00:27:05
Reaction Score: 7
My gut feeling is that Britain didn't want to lose control of the US, but it did initially to some degree. As always history is so much more complicated than is presented ie what happened to the Virginia Company and all the mineral rights, why was the catholic Church banned from making an official state visit till 1984, how long before the US was under the control of the Federal Reserve. In many was, the US is very similar to the UK, both countries got rid of the control of the RC church, but slowly but surely that organisation has managed to wind it's way back in to the reckoning. The big difference is the money supply IMO, If the fight to stop the Federal Reserve was bogus, then surely the bank would have got control prior to 1913. Then you have the Military Industrial Complex, the Council of Foreign Relations etc. The takeover has been slow but steady.

In many ways, the present state of the Virginia Company is the most interesting, Is the USA really just a colony of the British Crown, and does up to 50% of all the Gold & silver and some of the profits from the mineral rights still go to the 'Company'? Some people think that the Vatican ultimately control the Virginia Company.

THE VATICAN OWNS EVERYTHING
The Virginia Company Conspiracy – Country? Or Corporation? Icke make an appearance

Here is a view on the banking timeline, it chimes with many other opinions
The Federal Reserve: History of Lies, Thievery, and Deceit


The Federal Reserve: History of Lies, Thievery, and Deceit

Early American Wisdom

"The Americans had won their political independence but their financial independence was in jeopardy. The international bankers had an agent in place and his name was Alexander Hamilton who wanted a central bank. Thomas Jefferson lobbied vehemently against the central bank stating it was contrary to the Constitution. However, a central bank was formed in 1781 known as the Bank of North America which was patterned after the Bank of England. The colonists wanted nothing to do with it so it folded in 1790. The international bankers countered the closing of the Bank of North America by gaining a charter for the Bank of the United States which was chartered on February 25, 1791. The Bank of France desired the formation of the US Bank also and it was chartered for 20 years".

"In 1826, the second bank's charter was soon to expire and presidential candidate Andrew Jackson campaigned strongly against a central bank which was owned and operated by the international banking element. Here is Jackson's opinion of those bankers:

In 1836, the charter did expire but that was not the end of the international banking influence in this country. The Civil War was planned in England as far back as 1809. Slavery was not the real cause of the Civil War. The Rothschilds (who were heavy into the slave trade) used the slavery issue as "a divide and conquer strategy" which almost split the United States in two. The Bank of England financed the North while the Paris branch of the Rothschild bank funded the South. In 1863, the National Banking Act was passed despite protest by President Lincoln. This act allowed a private corporation the authority to issue our money.

Enter 1913 In November of 1910, some of these vultures came together at the Jekyl Island Hunt Club on Jekyl Island, Georgia. What were they hunting? The biggest prize of all, the absolute and complete control of all the money in America which means control of all America and with it the power to make slaves of all the people.
Those who attended were: Senator Nelson Aldrich (Nelson Rockefeller's maternal grandfather); A. Piatt Andrew, Economist and Assistant Secretary of the Treasury; Frank Vanderlip, President of the National City Bank of New York; Henry P. Norton, President of Morgan's First National Bank of New York; Paul Moritz Warburg, a German who was partner in the New York banking house of Kuhn, Loeb Co.; Benjamin Strong, an aid to J. P. Morgan.

Paul Warburg was credited as the architect of the bill which was passed by Congress and signed by traitorous Woodrow Wilson. It was entitled the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. America once again had a central bank but this time they had placed America under an absolute dictatorship. President James Garfield had insight into this situation:

The Federal Reserve was incorporated in 1914 and has been creating a completely unnecessary national debt ever since. In simple terms, the Fed creates money as debt. They create money out of thin air by nothing more than a book entry. Whenever the members of the Fed make any loans, that debt money is our money supply.

The United States went bankrupt in 1938 because of this system. It took the Fed only 25 years to bankrupt the USA. Can you imagine how little time it would take these vultures to bankrupt a developing nation? The American people are paying about $300 billion dollars a year in interest to this phony organization. When you look in the Washington, D.C. phone book, you will not find the Federal Reserve in the Government section as they are a private concern.

The national debt is increased about $1.71 billion dollars every day (as of October 12, 2004) . Have you taken a look at your money? It says "Federal Reserve Note" which means it is an instrument of debt. There is no real money in circulation".
 
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Username: RTP now
Date: 2020-07-06 00:29:55
Reaction Score: 1
Very interesting and definitely worth considering...
 
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Username: dejavu
Date: 2020-07-06 00:39:15
Reaction Score: 1
Hmmm, interesting. I'm not against exploring it because like @RTP now mentioned earlier in the thread, there seems to be (at least a perceived) element of hidden/occult/secret aspect of their ideology that may have magic or pagan type themes woven into it, but I'm not the OP, so I'm not sure how @Nostradennis feels about it because this may take us down a trail that may take us away from the original post.

From what I know of paganism's history, it is tied to the Roman Catholic Church's attempt at spreading their religious stronghold by taking over kingdoms. Pagan comes from the Latin term paganus meaning country folk because as the Roman Catholic stronghold grew, people who didn't want to be under Roman rule would escape/go off into the woods/countryside and establish themselves there so they could continue to live according to their own ways. Once the kingdom was controlled by the Roman Catholic Church, their focus turned to the paganus or countryfolk to be controlled and converted. I may be wrong about this, but this is my understanding. So, based on this, to me paganism is not necessarily bad or evil, so if there is another old world religion that may be similar to this, it may be worth discussing to see where it goes.

We can always link back to this one if we decide to start a new thread. I'm ok either way. I don't mind exploring the potential.
 
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