Alternative Mega Theories

[psymon]

12/ Martinus Cosmology

Not many people know about the Danish Mystic Martinus. He started having "cosmic glimps" around his 30s during his first meditation on Christ. After this he devoted his life to write and draw to explain his insights.

His works include The Third Testament, The Book of Life and many minor books and leaflets. He also created ~100 symbols to explain some of the concepts.

Videos: Video introductions
Symbols: Overview of the Symbols

First of all, he talks about the energies of the universe, which I interpret to overlap a lot with the chakra energies. It differs when he states that there is only 6 different energies and the 7th (crown chakra) is all of the others combined. The cosmic mother energy he calls it.

His idea is that we are connected to these energies in different amounts according to our cyclical journey. The last sentence of each energy is my interpretation.

RED - instinct - the plant kingdom - We manifest as plants and simple life forms.
ORANGE - gravity - the animal kingdom - We manifest as animals (and ego-driven humans)
YELLOW - feeling - the real human kingdom - We become real humans like Jesus, Buddha etc.
GREEN - intelligence - the kingdom of wisdom - We become godlike, but are still able to interact with the physical world. We live for many thousand years.
BLUE - intuition - the divine world - We know everything intuitively. We cut our ties to gravity, and are now immortal Gods.
INDIGO - memory - the kingdom of bliss - We slowly enter/manifest in the physical world again as minerals and crystals. This is because of our own longing to return and interact with the physical realm.

Humans as we are today, are on the border between orange and yellow. We are slowly transcending into being with the feeling energy as the strongest, but right now most people are still controlled mainly by the gravity energy. This energy corresponds to the animal kingdom and implements the killing principle. Within the next 2000 years most people should have evolved to the real human kingdom. This is what he calls Christ consciousness.

After the real human kingdom, we (our immortal souls) will evolve further and further going through the cycle (more like a spiral), which i interpret a bit like this. Take note that we are connected to all energies as shown below. The strongest will dictate our conscious state, and the interaction with other energies is mainly subconscious.

My biggest problem with Martinus and his ideas, is that everything "evil" is described as "unpleasant good" which is the driving force of evolving. He states again and again: Everything is pure good, implying that everything is as it's supposed to be. I think this is more of a comforting sentence he knows that people need to hear when they are dealing with the evil on another scale of existence. If your perspective are inside the ying or the yang, the other side is evil. But if you raise yourself above and look at the whole, you see how both are a reflection of each other and the concept of good and evil disappear.

But right now I'm alive in this form, and my perspective is here, so I have to acknowledge the duality and be able to recognise evil from good.

His ideas can explain how we build the pyramids in example. This was from another age where the humans living here were not controlled by gravity like we are. He actually said in a side note somewhere that the pyramids were build 90.000 years ago. He didn't elaborate. I always thought these old world relics were from the last golden age, where the generation of humans had reached higher states before leaving this plane of existence as gods.

Taking the principle, as above so below, into account, it makes sense that the "system" where the souls go between lives is deeply corrupt, just as here on the physical earth.

But on the other side, this cycle/spiral he's describing is moving in the other direction compared to 8/8.5 Loosh and spirit trap. Also opposite of the idea behind thetemplate.org if you know about this theory?
I'm almost certain that at some point in the Tibetan book of the dead, They are telling you to NOT go to the light when you die. It's a trap and you will just incarnate in the first feasible body. Instead you should stay away from the light and get to know this place. You gotta find your circle of elders that are guiding you to the next life which will be much more beneficial to your development instead of rushing back in, not even realising what death is.

I think also there is some crazy stuff hidden in Jim Morrisons lyrics. I feel he's describing how you can expel the souls of children through trauma so they can be obsessed with another spirit/soul. Related to the soul-trap idea, I think that the "illuminati" or whatever you prefer, have somehow hacked the reincarnation principle, and souls with origins elsewhere than earth (maybe reptilians) have hijacked the planet. Now they are trying to create artificial physical substitutes to replace the natural god-head, in order to become gods themselves. Just like a cancer cell that doesn't respect or adhere to the bigger self.

Some personal notes...

I had a soft NDE, after a huge psychotic guy, I was trying to help, attempted to strangle me. I fought my way out of his grib by forcing my thumbs deep inside his eyes while inside a near-death triggered DMT trip. This stressed up my body immensely and I lost all contact to my feelings afterwards.

1½ year later I had an anxiety/panic attack (at the full moon peak), where I thought some 5G antenna got turned on and my body couldn't absorb the oxygen. (Yeah I know, too much telegram), but the miracle here was that I quickly turned this energy around. It's wasn't 5G. It was simply my feelings coming back but i thought I was going to die for short duration. All my traumatic matrix barriers were broken down. I was shaking like crazy, crying and laughing at the same time telling myself that this energy is good and I tried my best to keep it inside. For the next week i felt like constant tripping on mushrooms. My brain was evolving and making new connections. I had to nap every 2-3 hours to calm down and reset my mind that was going at crazy speeds. I felt like Rudolf Steiner, as all answers just came to me. Even glimpses of my own future. During this week I had the most profound self-induced hallucinations in my life. Stronger than psilocybin and DMT, and I was able to control my trips. I learned how to open the tunnel and dive into the kundalini and beyond. This is where you see everything. Some of these days I woke up smelling the worst ever under my armpits. Some serious detoxification(fear-release) had taken place. Eventually i had to stop this adventure as my very supporting girlfriend started to get a bit nervous that I would loose my mind. So I ate a lot of eggs to ground myself to the ego-energy.

Now, half a year later, I see symbolism everywhere, and I see the hallucinations that take me away into sleep. I'm ready to continue the never ending journey for truth

Let me know if this is too much off-topic and I will edit the post. I'm new here, just trying to share my thoughts.

I definitely think there is more going on than is stated in Patrick Mewton's research. Even if its just trying to understand how much the people he hypnotised are guided by him.

In general, I often find that people are very certain that its this or that. Personally I don't know how you can get to that level of certainty, unless its via personal experience. And even then, if the soul trap is real, it could be that those people that have had personal experience (eg via an NDE or OBE) are wrong.

I bear in mind that its not like I've never misunderstood something or never been tricked. So, for the moment, I hold that there are multiple ways to interpret info on the metaphysical - there's room for the egg (or a naive interpretation of an NDE/OBE/regression experience) and a more conspiracy minded approach, as well as whatever else.. And I'm not sure we'll even have a handle on the 'true' perspective in this life and the next. I only hope that in investigating this stuff we are able to hone ourselves and work on better answers - ie that we are developing ourselves.

I don't know Patrick Mewton's research. Did you mean Michael Newton?

I really like your take on certainty. I feel much the same.

When dealing with these regressions, you have to take the limitation into account. First of all, most things are on a need to know basis, so many young souls don't know shit. They can't handle the truth yet so they are spared for it. On the other hand, life would loose much meaning if you could remember a thousand other lives. Also, all these accounts into the afterlife gives a picture of the afterlife of the PAST through child-eyes. Just like here on the physical planet, some state of affairs are changing rapidly. All our accounts from his regression has to be at least 50 years old and in many cases 100's of years. So how is the afterlife structured today?

Personally I like the thought that we are a big group (of souls) ready for graduation (the rapture), and this life is the biggest group-exam you can imagine. The stage has been set. Of course you need to look into yourself, but more importantly we need to show our elders that we are capable of (even with amnesia) to work together and create balance between good and evil in this world. When we have shown this we will graduate and be ready to take real responsibility in the cosmos (get a real job).

 

[feralimal]

Thank you kindly for number 12 Its a great write up!

My biggest problem with Martinus and his ideas, is that everything "evil" is described as "unpleasant good" which is the driving force of evolving. He states again and again: Everything is pure good, implying that everything is as it's supposed to be. I think this is more of a comforting sentence he knows that people need to hear when they are dealing with the evil on another scale of existence. If your perspective are inside the ying or the yang, the other side is evil. But if you raise yourself above and look at the whole, you see how both are a reflection of each other and the concept of good and evil disappear.

Yes - I totally see that. I hate that sort of re-defining of words. Its the same story with the nonduality people - optimism is at 11!

I can't even conceive of everything being 'good'... You need 'bad' to make the distinction. If there is no scale to measure whatever-it-is, its actually not something we can perceive. Eg, imagine that everything was at the same temperature - no hot or cold. We wouldn't need to use the terms 'hot' and 'cold' - we couldn't even conceive the idea of 'temperature'!

You might say that good and bad are illusory or temporary. In the way that there is nothing pleasurable about hard exercise at the time - it could be considered unpleasant - but later you are happy to have the benefit of extra strength/endurance. Would the act of exercise be an 'bad' in the short term, but 'good' in the longer term? Is 'good' the right word? Can't we just say 'stronger' or 'fitter'.

I'm fine with the idea that there is no good and bad in the world per say - but that there is good and bad for me as an individual. There is right and wrong to what I do. But there is no independent 'evil' or 'good' entity or whatever, that drives individual's actions.

Anyway, I see your criticism, and agree that it is problematic.

His ideas can explain how we build the pyramids in example. This was from another age where the humans living here were not controlled by gravity like we are. He actually said in a side note somewhere that the pyramids were build 90.000 years ago. He didn't elaborate. I always thought these old world relics were from the last golden age, where the generation of humans had reached higher states before leaving this plane of existence as gods.

I really don't like when people say this sort of stuff. Its a big claim! Its the same sort of thing for me as when Tom Campbell is talking about quantum theory. I'd like to ask "fine, I'm glad its coherent with your theory, but how can we check this sort of thing?" I don't think we can. To me its possible that the pyramids are just 200 years old - eg: SH Archive Replies - Did Napoleon build the Great Egyptian Pyramids? How can I know?

To accept these sorts of things, I have to consider that the claimant is saying this in some sort of interpretative way - ie not literally 90,000 years ago, but on some sort of basis like 'when I spoke to my spirit guides, they said...' or 'when I entered a state where I knew everything, I realised...' But if it is all interpretative, we are in the realm of stories. Is it just a cool story then?

I'm almost certain that at some point in the Tibetan book of the dead, They are telling you to NOT go to the light when you die. It's a trap and you will just incarnate in the first feasible body. Instead you should stay away from the light and get to know this place. You gotta find your circle of elders that are guiding you to the next life which will be much more beneficial to your development instead of rushing back in, not even realising what death is.

That's right - they say to 'go to the clear light of the void'. They are saying not to go to the light. This is why you can read the 'soul trap' as modern reboot of Buddhism - they are saying don't go to the light and the tunnel.

I think also there is some crazy stuff hidden in Jim Morrisons lyrics. I feel he's describing how you can expel the souls of children through trauma so they can be obsessed with another spirit/soul. Related to the soul-trap idea, I think that the "illuminati" or whatever you prefer, have somehow hacked the reincarnation principle, and souls with origins elsewhere than earth (maybe reptilians) have hijacked the planet. Now they are trying to create artificial physical substitutes to replace the natural god-head, in order to become gods themselves. Just like a cancer cell that doesn't respect or adhere to the bigger self.

I wouldn't be surprised. Did you know he was the son of an Admiral? Not just any admiral either - his dad was the commander in charge when the Gulf of Tonkin Incident occurred. To me, that raises huge red flags. I suspect that the father and son are props in different operations. Perhaps they were free masons, doing their thing - creating culture, steering the herd.

Let me know if this is too much off-topic and I will edit the post. I'm new here, just trying to share my thoughts.

This is great - its very interesting to hear your personal experience, and how you think it fits in with it all. It sounds like you have had a some serious, life-changing experiences. Thanks for sharing.

I don't know Patrick Mewton's research. Did you mean Michael Newton?

I really like your take on certainty. I feel much the same.

I put in the wrong name! Edited now, thanks. And I'm glad you like my tentative, skeptical take. I try to be clear between what I know and believe.

Personally I like the thought that we are a big group (of souls) ready for graduation (the rapture), and this life is the biggest group-exam you can imagine. The stage has been set. Of course you need to look into yourself, but more importantly we need to show our elders that we are capable of (even with amnesia) to work together and create balance between good and evil in this world. When we have shown this we will graduate and be ready to take real responsibility in the cosmos (get a real job).

Yes - its a nice idea. I do have a couple of issues with it though.

In NDEs we hear about people being directed back into the light by their family members - ie there is the concept of 'family'. Then the idea is that we incarnate again, perhaps keeping some links with the spirit world. Ie there are 2 simultaneous concepts of family going on - the physical family (and family members guide you to the light) and the soul family. Well, that is problematic! Maybe the soul family is the same as the physical family, but I don't get that impression.. So, if you think the soul family is the real one, it seems likely that some or most of the family you actually know, are not in your 'soul family'. And what is a 'soul family' anyway? Do we breed at the spiritual level?

Also, I find these sorts of ideas can give us an 'attachment value' to this domain - we need to come here, do as we are instructed to, learn our lessons, follow our plan, improve ourselves and then after some time and if we are judged to have done well enough, we proceed to the next step of evolution. But who is the instructor, the judge, the planner? How do we know these administrators/authorities have our best interests at heart? Yes, perhaps the world after death does seem like heaven - but is it similar to relief, like we would feel when we wear our shoes too tight, and then finally take them off? Is it possible that they can flood us with the spiritual equivalent of MDMA (love) and provide an exciting play pen (holding pen) for us? Would we be able apply discernment in the face of a love bomb?

Given we are on StolenHistory.net, I think it is fair to say that while most of us may have trusted authorities in the past, now we do not. It seems that the reality of what really happened is not as presented. I certainly have reasons not to trust the authorities to tell me the truth. And I don't think they are telling me 'white lies' for my own good either. Rather it seems a master/servant relationship, where I am the slave but I'm encouraged to think I am free. It seems possible that the authorities of this realm are amazing co-ordinators/planners too. They are so good, I can't help but wonder whether they are receiving 'outside help' (from the spiritual side of things) - which human group could co-ordinate so much so covertly?

Anyway, given all that, I need some convincing that I should we ignore the hard fought lessons of this life, and revert to a default of 'naive trust' in the next. Who says the spiritual entities that purport to help us (in NDEs etc) are not actually helping themselves, via the use of more illusions?

 

[Quiahuitl]

I notice there are several theories talking about how mankind is essentially food for something. This is the essence of the Casteneda.

Basically there are non-physical lifeforms which have consciousness and intelligence but very little energy of their own. Our human sexual energy is like gasoline to them, it's immensely valuable. How it works is the life forms whisper thoughts into your mind, and, at the moment you identify with those thoughts, you start to invest them with your life force energy. Except you are really giving the energy to the installation.

In my opinion, the vast majority of what most people think, most of the time, is programmed into their minds by these types of beings. Most people don't want to be made aware of this. If you ask most people to listen to what's going on in their minds and then make it stop, they can't, and they wont even admit that they can't. To free yourself from these installations can be a lifetime's work and is an important component of every major spiritual tradition. Castaneda says 'Silence is unpalatable to them'

A few years ago someone told me something so shocking I struggled to take it in. She said that the nature of the Matrix is that there are a team of powerful black magicians directing the entities. They also direct the advertising agencies and mainstream media, so they are feeding information from the entities back into the msm messaging, and vice versa. It has taken me several years to become comfortable with this idea. It doesn't bother me now

 

[feralimal]

In my opinion, the vast majority of what most people think, most of the time, is programmed into their minds by these types of beings. Most people don't want to be made aware of this. If you ask most people to listen to what's going on in their minds and then make it stop, they can't, and they wont even admit that they can't. To free yourself from these installations can be a lifetime's work and is an important component of every major spiritual tradition. Castaneda says 'Silence is unpalatable to them'

Castaneda gets at this when he says the parasites "gave us their mind". (Number 9, Alternative Mega Theories)

She said that the nature of the Matrix is that there are a team of powerful black magicians directing the entities.

I agree. Mark Passio has certainly talked about this. And here, is a recent, topical example from Hugo talks:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMbCpD0oyP0

Whether the magic really does anything, I don't know. Maybe you need to believe in it.

 

[Quiahuitl]

Castaneda says that for the vast majority of human existence we have lived in silent knowledge, which explains our great longing for it. That is a direct connection with the world around us, the ability to intuitively connect with plants and animals.

The non-corporeal lifeforms gave us what we call 'Reason' which is an objective way of seeing the world. That gives us the power to manipulate objects, but takes away our ability to live in harmony with the world. In addition to being able to objectify things, we also objectify ourselves through Reason. Thus we create the ego, the imaginary self in which we invest all our time and energy. So Reason is a two-edged sword.

Castaneda talks about how the entities knew that would happen, and are feeding off our egos. They tricked us into accepting the power over objects in return for turning ourselves into objects, which we didn't see coming.

A lot of people have suggested this occurred around 10,000 years ago, the same time Man started farming.

Before that, we didn't need to do any farming, because we lived in harmony with the world around us and everything we needed was readily to hand. After we switched from silent knowledge to reason, we started destroying our environment; so we had to start farming in order to survive.

 

[feralimal]

Castaneda says that for the vast majority of human existence we have lived in silent knowledge, which explains our great longing for it. That is a direct connection with the world around us, the ability to intuitively connect with plants and animals.

The non-corporeal lifeforms gave us what we call 'Reason' which is an objective way of seeing the world. That gives us the power to manipulate objects, but takes away our ability to live in harmony with the world. In addition to being able to objectify things, we also objectify ourselves through Reason. Thus we create the ego, the imaginary self in which we invest all our time and energy. So Reason is a two-edged sword.

Castaneda talks about how the entities knew that would happen, and are feeding off our egos. They tricked us into accepting the power over objects in return for turning ourselves into objects, which we didn't see coming.

A lot of people have suggested this occurred around 10,000 years ago, the same time Man started farming.

Before that, we didn't need to do any farming, because we lived in harmony with the world around us and everything we needed was readily to hand. After we switched from silent knowledge to reason, we started destroying our environment; so we had to start farming in order to survive.

What you say is interesting. The same story is broadly expressed in places - that we were a natural part of our environments, something happened (a parasite, or intervention) and then we are disassociated from the natural world, harnessed to something other - ie lost. I relate to this.

In the Castaneda clip I posted, it says:

"The grand trick of those sorcerers of ancient times," don Juan continued, "was to burden the flyers' mind with discipline.

"Sorcerers found out that if they taxed the flyers' mind with inner silence, the foreign installation would flee, and give any one of the practitioners involved in this maneuver the total certainty of the mind's foreign origin.

"The foreign installation comes back, I assure you, but not as strong; and a process begins in which the fleeing of the flyers' mind becomes routine until one day it flees permanently.

It sounds like he is recommending meditation or something. Is this something you have looked into? And had any success with?

 

[Quiahuitl]

That's very interesting. I haven't read Castaneda for twenty years, but I have studied the Toltec tradition with other teachers during the last 7-8 years.

The key is the word 'Discipline.' They gave us discipline.

Discipline is the positive aspect of Huitzilopochtli, the archangel of the South, who represents sexual energy and the element of Water. The downside of discipline is repetitive destructive patterns.

The four archangels of the Toltecs are Tezcatlipoca, Xipe-Totec, Huitzilopochtli, and Quetzalcoatl. All except Quetzalcoatl represent what we in our Modern Western way of thinking would see as pairs of opposites.

Tezcatlipoca is the future and the past; also the ultimate source of the present.
Xipe-Totec is living and dying - both the force of pure creation and the force of pure destruction at the same time.
Huitzilopochtli is both the power to affect the world around you and the negative consequences of that, the repetitive destructive patterns.

Quetzalcoatl is the art of achieving beauty by taking wing and flying, it is living your highest destiny/purpose. Buzzing. Having it large. Winging it. Christ consciousness. Lighting up from the inside.

 

[feralimal]

Tezcatlipoca is the past and the future; and also the ultimate source of the present.
Xipe-Totec is living and dying - both the force of pure creation and the force of pure destruction at the same time.
Huitzilopochtli is both the power to affect the world around you and the negative consequences of that, the repetitive destructive patterns.

Interesting. I'm seeing Time, Reincarnation and Karma. As dualities.

Quetzalcoatl is the art of achieving beauty by taking wing and flying, it is living your highest destiny/purpose. Buzzing. Having it large. Winging it. Christ consciousness. Lighting up from the inside.

Bring it on! It must be possible.... right?!

 

[Quiahuitl]

I'm seeing Time, Reincarnation and Karma. As dualities.

Bingo! You're absolutely right. This is a new interpretation to me. Many thanks. Of course it's obvious now you have pointed it out!

Xipe-Totec also has the connection to the constant renewal at a cellular level. I'm told the internet is essentially a manifestation of Xipe-Totec and so is mathematics.

Lighting up from the inside is mainly a question of getting out of your own way. I often have spontaneous moments of deeper connection with reality in which I become rapidly energised, but then conditioning kicks in and I often shut it down again. Sometimes I am able to sustain it for longer periods.

Regarding the meditation and the silence, yes I have practiced this diligently for many years and achieved great results. To start with it took me several years to be able to go quiet in my own mind even for a moment; then for many years I tried to go silent after completing each task during my day and before starting the next one; eventually I started to identify with my silent self instead of the talking self. That was over ten years ago, and since then it feels like layers peeling away every year or so. I can't even say what the layers are, but every time a layer peels away I feel more deeply connected with reality, and more aware of beauty in all things.

About a year after I first began identifying with my silent self, I felt like great sheets of ice were peeling away, it was like looking at the antarctic ice wall in my minds eye. I also dreamt about ice melting a lot. The reason I mention this is because a friend of mine had the exact same experience at the same point in his journey, seven or eight years after first beginning meditation.

I've also realised practical benefits. I'm finding wounds heal four to five times faster now than when I was in my forties (I'm in my late 50s now). Obviously I try not to get wounded too often, but when I do, I'm amazed how I expect the wound to take at least two months to heal, and it heals in two weeks now like when I was young.

Here's a beautiful thing - my mother (80) has experienced the same benefits. She hasn't done any meditation herself, but because I've done the work the benefits have been transmitted to her via our common blood, according to Toltec principles. She gave herself a nasty injury recently and it healed completely in two weeks. The doctors couldn't believe it!

 

[ViniB]

One of the most interesting threads i've read this year so far!!! Many thanks
From my own personal experience, the animation in shadow is quite the summary of what happened, who we are and how to break free from the matrix.

View: https://youtu.be/j800SVeiS5I

By means of meditation i've seen and experienced some wild things, more real than my house tbh, like a light Garden, messages in the form of geometric patterns, a valley with Energy that can be seen and much more! It was thanks to Dr Joe dispenza that i had all these experiences, his work saved my life 3yrs ago and continue to surprise me everyday!! Here's a link to his latest interview for anyone interested it's impressive the power of the mind over the body

View: https://youtu.be/ta4w28IlzPE

 

[Gold]

I really like this thread, but I feel the Egg has a better candidate to elaborate on this idea.

Dr Michael Newton did a lot of research into the Life Between Lives (LBL) through hypnosis. I've read 1000 of these sessions and if we dared to look at this scientifically we would come to a similar conclusion as the Egg. Except that the egg is very basic and miss the fact that so much is going on between our physical lives. He explains a whole complex world on the other side, which quite nice follows the principles of 'As above, so below', especially if you compare to old world cultures.

Also, what he is describing fits very much the simulation theory, with life as kind of a VR exam or exercise in your soul life, but it's only if you don't see the duality you would call it a simulation.

If you're interested I would love to make a write up of the "other world" Michael Newton describes after questioning 8000+ patients in hypnosis.

Please, do. I'm really interested to hear more about your experiences and views on if there's an exit from this place and a loving source or something along those lines. Especially kundalini and beyond, that's personally relevant to me.

 

[Quiahuitl]

I'm really interested to hear more about your experiences and views on if there's an exit from this place and a loving source or something along those lines. Especially kundalini and beyond, that's personally relevant to me.

The best book I've read about managing the kundalini ascension process is 'Dancing the dream' by Jamie Sams. It's available on Amazon.

It never mentions kundalini once. It is divided into seven chapters and each chapter describes the psychological challenges and processes you go through as your kundalini reaches the corresponding chakra.

 

[psymon]

Please, do. I'm really interested to hear more about your experiences and views on if there's an exit from this place and a loving source or something along those lines. Especially kundalini and beyond, that's personally relevant to me.

Hi Gold, and thanks for your interest.

Let me try to sketch up some of the principles of the LBL (Life Between Lives). It's important to note that the experience and how people/patients describe their LBL journey/experience may differ a lot. This is, in my opinion, mainly because of 3 influences.

1. The development stage of the soul (Some are close to their last mortal lives, while some is having their first, but mostly his patients has some kind of soul experience, which is also a driving force for them to go see him)
2. The personal ability to describe such an experience. Some are very specific and almost scientific, and some have a really hard time finding words and have pretty vague descriptions. (This is more related to current life, as it is still this body, with its vocabulary, that is the medium)
3. The past life right before your LBL experience. (Michael Newtons technique, is to bring people back to a another life at the time of death and follow them into this other realm as they die. This might not be the most recent past life, but this entry point has a lot to say about the first part of the experience)

Phase 1: Death and reunion.

When you die, it feels like floating upwards steadily, looking down on the death scene. If you are with loved ones, most people will try to communicate without success. Some people instantly knows what's going on and proceeds fast to the next phase. Others are confused and need more time to "say goodbye". Some might even be stuck in this experience and roam around like a ghost trying to communicate with loved ones left behind or the more scary type that gets stuck in a place, and kind of tries to continue their life as a ghost.

Most people see a bright cloud/mist and are welcomed by: A. soul avatars of their loved ones, B. souls from their soul group, C. Their soul guide/teacher.

Another thing Michael newton has concluded is that we are living in the physical realm on earth at the same time as in the realm of souls. Some souls will bring only a small part of their total energy to the earth body while some will put almost all their energy into it. So when we are living an earth life, our souls are in a state like meditation, but are still present in the soul group. Just like a student who's working on his own project in the back corner of the classroom. Some souls even choose to live two lives simultaneously, because of their eagerness to develop further and faster. This may backlash in most cases according to Michael Newton.

Phase 2: Evaluation w. The Counsil of Elders

The first "planned" thing you do is to meet the Council of Elders for an evaluation of how you think your life went. Some souls fear this in Phase 1, and others look forward to it. If you did a good job you have nothing to fear, but if you really fucked up your life, you will be given a choice. You can either continue your personal development, but you will have to account for all the negative Karma you've build up in this last life. Or you can be sent to the healing center to be transformed/healed by other expert healers and this way you can evade the bad Karma, but the price is that alterations (soul memory loss etc.) are made to your soul from the outside. Sounds like it's much preferable to avoid this if you want to stay true to yourself and self-development.

Phase 3: Healing/Isolation/Settling

So after the evaluation you'll have time to get over your jetlag from dying. People have many different stories here, but I feel they are very related to the past life just lived. Some go to a "planet" or world with amazing pets that give you all the love you need, and some go to isolation to calm down and face themselves. This might be a very short or very long phase according to your own needs and wishes.

Phase 4: Back to School

When you're ready and feel comfortable in the soul realm you return to your class or your soul group. They can count anything from 2 to 30 souls and will change slowly as the souls develop in different paces. Young souls tend to be in bigger groups and old souls seeking a specialized education is often smaller groups. Also, the soul guide for a group of young souls are still reincarnating and they have a soul guide of their own.

Sometimes in the hypnosis sessions Michael Newton get access to direct communication with the soul guide, but information is off limit. Sometimes he tricks the patients in hypnosis and pretends that he knows it all, so they think they are not breaking any rules by telling him about this realm.

In this relatively long phase, you study your past lives and the lives of others of interest. You have a library with magical tablets with a record of everything (Akacia Archive) and you can even relive episodes in some kind of VR. It seems your time in the soul realm, before the next reincarnation is related to the length of your past life. Did you die at birth, you are not back for long, but if you had a long life, you will stay in the soul realm for approximately the same amount of time as your past life.

You also study the creation/alterations of life-forms. How to build a frog ie. Other more advanced souls are working together in bigger projects like designing bigger worlds with interdependent systems. In one story, this couple of soulmates are working on an entire planet. The "guy" is creating/manifesting the minerals, mountains and landscape while the "girl' is creating all the life to inhabit these landscapes.

I can only imagine the souls designing universes, galaxies and entire solar systems. I don't think they are still reincarnating on the same scale we are.

At one point you feel ready to your next life.

Phase 5: Test-driving your options and choosing your next life w. The Counsil of Elders (The Ring)

Everyone meets the Council of Elders exactly two times during their LBL. The second time is when you are ready to choose your next life. Well, it's kinda up for interpretations if we "choose", as we are presented with 3-5 options, and in all the cases I've read, you pick one of these. I Haven't heard anyone discard all the options and ask for more.

So, you are presented with these options. You are able to testdrive the bodies in VR with some scenes from the childhood and teenage years. You will never know the details of the adult life. Seems like there is some limit at 30 years. So only if you die young, you will know it before you choose. Sometimes you are choosing a life, to help another soul from your group to develop and not fall behind the group. That could be if you die before you're born or very short after, because the parents had to learn something important. If this is the case you probably incarnate when they have the next child, which they are now ready for.

So you choose your next life. Never use that bad excuse again "I didn't choose this". You actually did

Phase 6: Backstage meetup and Preparation (Rehearsals)

You meet up with the main actors in your coming life. Sometimes it's with a lot of souls from your group and sometimes you don't know the others, but most it's a mix. You prepare for the really important decisions/paths in various ways. It could be remembering the smell of the person you're supposed to marry or the look in their eyes so you are a better prepared to notice it and take the right decision down here when the time comes. So this is the element of fate. It's all a prepared act and we're doing our best to follow the script, but we always possess free will.

Phase 7: Rebirth

To be honest I don't remember this part in detail, except that you are departing in groups at certain times where the portal to earth is open.

That's it basically. I forgot to mention that in the end of your reincarnating life, you've already started to specialize your development. I can't remember all the titles Michael Newton is mentioning but some I do. There is Healer, Artist/Designer/Creator/Manifestor, Explorer, Teacher/Guide. I think the "reptillian" idea some people believe strongly is because of "Explorer" souls originating from another realm/planet and now they went to earth. They are way more advanced beings that we are, but they never learned the lessons you get from the earth school. According to Michael Newton, the earth is open for explorer souls from other realms, but if souls from a specific place are corrupting our system, the gate for them will be closed, but we are still stuck with the ones that's already here.

Since I wrote my last comment, I've been exploring the idea of Tartaria/Old World as well as the soul trap idea. Just finished the book "Irish Wisdom Preserved in Bible and Pyramids" which is yet another book describing the Pyramids as a symbol of this reincarnated beast-man, we all are, and how soul consciousness is related to it. It also analyses stuff from the bible and related words/languages focused on the Irish origin of words. The Author thinks that the Aryan (descendents of Atlantis) are souls who didn't graduate in the last cycle and therefore they are way superior in knowledge and skills compared to the fresh new souls first born in this cycle of the world.
All the settlements and cultures around the world have their origin from the Irish missionaries. From India, Egypt and Rome, to Maya and so on. They share the same kind of worship of the sun, even though in Greek and Roman, the aspects of the sun has been translated more into planets.

Concerning the soul trap idea, I think the moon is heavily involved if this has something to it. The symbolism for this is everywhere in Hollywood and music, but I'm not sure if I like the term trap. I mean... did you think kindergarten or primary school was a trap because you had to go back every day for some time? I believe in cosmic scales, so if you look at the LBL, then this reincarnating lifecycle on earth must be constructed in some way. I think the same accounts for the soul realm. It's also a construct, but this is by design. When you start to see the scale or level above you, the current one can seem false and constructed, but this will repeat itself many times before you reach the final realm if there even is one. And then again... We have so much corruption in this earthly scale, so why wouldn't that be a reflections on the state of affairs in the soul realm above us. I'm just not ready to fight demons from the scale above me yet, so I'm not in a rush. I need to control the lower demons first in order to fight the bigger ones. I don't want to show myself to them before I know I'm strong enough.

So if you really want to try and skip some of your school/prisontime, I would suggest you to stay away from the light when you die. Take a look at this website: http://www.trickedbythelight.com/

But to really ascend beyond reincarnation, you can't have a desire to escape. Then you're not ready I think. The fear of not-escaping will keep you in this system. You must work on being the best you can be. Never be angry, always be kind, never be afraid. Devote yourself to the cosmic principle of soul development. You must learn how to generate energy within and send it out, instead of absorbing energy from others or the environment.

I would recommend (as a vegetarian that eats meet occasionally to stimulate my ego and investigate the effects) to skip meat and heavy protein foods when you are really working on meditation and connecting to your soul. It's about balancing your energies/chakras, so you can't dismiss the ego energy completely, but most of us is controlled by this in our daily consciousness and the breaking down of protein in your intestines releases this energy. You are killing and absorbing lifeforms from another scale which you might not have needed to. Some produce from nature is meant to be eaten by humans and some are not. We are still transitioning, so we can't live of sunshine alone yet, but think in term of purpose and use your logical sense to find the food that resonates with you, and the state of mind you're working towards. Fruits all have the purpose to be food, the same with seeds and nuts before they sprout. We are taking the produce of another life-form, not the life-form itself. The same with milk. The purpose of the Milk is to be absorbed as food. Whereas Kale or green vegetables often are killed to become food. I prefer the perennial greens that I don't have to kill when I harvest from them.

An exercise i learned from a hallucination to connect to the kundalini (or the tunnel inside me) is to turn your eyes inside out. I mean if you are able to focus on stuff in front of your eyes you are able to change your lenses. Try morphing your lenses into position so you actually are looking backwards in your eyes, right into the pineal. (Or let the pineal paint your retina from the inside). It's a bit like these patterns you can only see if you can find the focus point behind them, but I'm pretty sure we can use the same principle to look inwards.

I have a perfect eyesight, everything is always clear and in focus, but during an orgasm and just after, It's really hard for me to focus. Everything is a blur unless I concentrate hard on keeping my focus.

It can also help to just focus in the middle of your field of vision with eyes closed and really look hard for that tiny tunnel. Keep looking very focused until it appears and then dive into it. These two self-taught techniques have provided me the most vivid experiences of my life. Sometimes I even have to stop it, because my body goes panicky when I reach the red and last turn in the root chakra i guess. But if you make it all the way through the kundalini and "enter the void" you're in for a treat. I felt like being jesus and the potential to become the world savior. This is an awesome but also awful feeling at the same time, at least it was for me. Imagine the weight upon your shoulders when you realize your own potential, hehe. I need more basic work with myself before I go deeper down this path.

Hope you found this interesting, and god speed in your search for truth

 

[feralimal]

@psymon

That is a really detailed and thoughtful write up. I genuinely appreciate the time and effort you have taken to put all that down. I think what you've said, is very decent account of Michael Newton's work, and of the common new age understanding of the next life in general. So, thank you

Having said that, there are bits I disagree with or have have different interpretations. In the interests of better understanding, I hope you won't object to my stating some of my objections to Newton's model of reality.

Firstly, I think its worth making clear that he uses hypnosis to regress his patients - this is his only source of information. I personally don't see this as good a source as NDEs because all the experiences are being intermediated and instigated for us by Michael Newton.

The expression of the next life that he lays out for us is coherent with lots of NDEs - the terrain being described seems similar: there is looking down on one's own body, the tunnel, the living relatives, the life review, etc. I wouldn't dispute any of that. I would also describe his expression as the typical new age take. I hope you think that's fair. Ie, that he (and I think you) think we are here to learn, improve ourselves, learn to be positive, etc.

Where I differ to you, is in the interpretation.

You (recaping Michael Newton) mention a council of elders, a school, being given options that one has to choose, etc. This is to say, you are describing an authority structure, a heirarchy. It seems that everyone who has has some experience of 'the other side' says how they feel loved, they knew everything, etc - but then they never seem to be able to talk about the authority structure they find.

If you are conspiracy minded, you will look around this reality, and see a similar sort of mis-understanding or mis-framing of reality being played out by most of those around us. Eg, most people believe that covid was real, viruses exist, that governments are there to help even if they are largely incompetent, that education isn't perfect but better than nothing, that work, culture, etc are just how reality has naturally unfolded. However, for the conspiracy minded (at least for me), there is nothing natural about our lives. It seems to me that most fail to see that the structure within which they live was designed in a specific way in order to harness people's lives, gain general acceptance and remain invisible. Put simply, it seems that we are slaves in a system and have been so dumbed down that we don't even realise it.

Anyway, if you are conspiracy-minded, when you read about some sort of governance structure, that is painted as 'good', 'for our benefit', etc you cannot help but wonder if that is the whole story. IMO, this is the starting platform for considering the soul trap idea. (You mention the moon, but who knows what that is, whether it is even a place we can go to.) Re the soul trap, the question is: is it possible, that the controllers of the physical world which we see, are also able to control some part of the next? I think this is a more than a possibility - the machinations sometimes seem so elaborately perfect, it seems that there is more in play - ie perhaps there is a spiritual dimension to it. And let's not forget that the idea of a soul trap is an aged one - at least, it is akin to what Buddhists believe too. So it is not so outlandish as all that!

If you really are a free spirit, who can have the right to tell you to go back to school? To tell you that you should repeatedly reincarnate to learn to only see the good not the bad? Who can judge your life? Who are these judges? Where do they get their authority from? Is there a legal system in the afterlife too, and we sign life contracts? When we reincarnate, why do we have to work in ignorance of the life lessons we are meant to learn here, given that we are mind-wiped when we arrive? Etc, etc.

But to really ascend beyond reincarnation, you can't have a desire to escape. Then you're not ready I think. The fear of not-escaping will keep you in this system. You must work on being the best you can be. Never be angry, always be kind, never be afraid. Devote yourself to the cosmic principle of soul development. You must learn how to generate energy within and send it out, instead of absorbing energy from others or the environment.

But, how do you know any of that - eg no 'desire to escape' and that this is an indication of not being ready? Maybe this is how you have accomodated yourself to this reality - ie choosing to see the bright side of things in defiance of evidence and reason. Is it really right, that one should never be angry? If someone is hurt, should we accept that, and perhaps see it as their just deserts from a past life?

Do you see the issue? Being passive and accepting, is a fantastic ideology to foster in one's victims. For someone who likes to victimise others, how good if their victims accept their wrongs, don't get angry, etc? Don't you think you need to know how to live right, in the present world, in order to 'graduate'? And that this might mean getting angry and doing something about it? Is pain to be avoided or to be used to learn?

The kind of accepting outlook you describe, reminds me of this clip:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAF35dekiAY

Anyway, thank you again for your write up, and I hope you are not too put out by my pushing back a bit on some of the implications that Michael Newton assumes to be right and proper.

 

[psymon]

@feralimal

Thank you very much for your feedback. I do appreciate it, and it's also good for others to read. Sometimes I'm not super sharp about what's my interpretation and why I see it that way. It's all about the big question, so there are so many sources and experiences I constantly try to connect and make sense of. I'm also a newbie in here so it takes some time for me to reply properly. I keep fucking up when I try to include multiple quotes I have a few counter-comments

First. Hypnosis vs NDE. I don't believe in one more than the other, but i do agree that depending on your other views and what you think you know, they can differ alot. I'm always skeptical about the works of one man, but also intrigued. After reading all his books, my judgement is that he is honest. But of course it's still an option that he, in some kind of way and probably without knowing, can change the outcome of how this experience is being told by the patient. It could maybe soften it up, because he himself is approaching these patients with love and compassion so this affects the outcome. So much I don't know. That's also why I think NDE's can be very complicated to judge. Someone could have made a story up more easily than in hypnotherapy. I didn't study NDE the same way as I did with his hypnosis but I think we should take both as valid and important instruments in which we can use and compare the results. My mind has never been more open than at this point in my life

How far do the NDE's get in these phases I described above?

About the authoritarian structure he describes, I totally agree with you. It is definitely authoritarian. Michael Newton and his patients don't generally speak bad about the Elders, and emphasize they only want the best for you. Some souls can be embarrassed and don't feel like being confronted, but no real bad feelings against them. A few guys though, were really acting out in front of them upon the evaluation, because they died suddenly in an accident when their life finally turned to the better, and they felt that The Elders stole that life. I don't necessarily trust the Elders or this structure to be good or bad. I find it very interesting though, how it is strongly a "need to know" practice in this place and comparing to the institutions that work like this. Secret services etc. So we definitely get a distorted image of the even bigger stuff, or the next "scale" of our experience from the patients in hypnosis. If I end up at the evaluation one day, I wonder what the Elders will say about me investigating them and doubting their authority, hehe.

If you are conspiracy minded, you will look around this reality, and see a similar sort of mis-understanding or mis-framing of reality being played out by most of those around us. Eg, most people believe that covid was real, viruses exist, that governments are there to help even if they are largely incompetent, that education isn't perfect but better than nothing, that work, culture, etc are just how reality has naturally unfolded. However, for the conspiracy minded (at least for me), there is nothing natural about our lives. It seems to me that most fail to see that the structure within which they live was designed in a specific way in order to harness people's lives, gain general acceptance and remain invisible. Put simply, it seems that we are slaves in a system and have been so dumbed down that we don't even realise it.

Very well said. But I'm very open to the "harnessing" of lives concept. How exactly can this be better understood? Is it evil? Or is it just a part of the underlying structure for your consciousness even to exist or come to existence? I don't know. I know my body consists of billions of cells. They die, the multiply. They (maybe) live their lives in a strict need to know system where I am the bigger result. I really don't want these cells to revolt against the plan (cancer). Then again. The earth is not in balance right now it seems. We are definitely infected, but maybe the reincarnation of souls is only partially infected. Just like this world. I think the "battle" or "infection" on the higher level is very complicated.

If you really are a free spirit, who can have the right to tell you to go back to school? To tell you that you should repeatedly reincarnate to learn to only see the good not the bad? Who can judge your life? Who are these judges? Where do they get their authority from? Is there a legal system in the afterlife too, and we sign life contracts? When we reincarnate, why do we have to work in ignorance of the life lessons we are meant to learn here, given that we are mind-wiped when we arrive? Etc, etc.

They don't tell you to learn only to see good in my opinion. But yeah, maybe we did sign a contract like in the movie "The Game". It just lasts for an Age, hehe I'm skeptical about the mind-wipe also. We should or could be able to live without it, I believe.

But, how do you know any of that - eg no 'desire to escape' and that this is an indication of not being ready? Maybe this is how you have accomodated yourself to this reality - ie choosing to see the bright side of things in defiance of evidence and reason. Is it really right, that one should never be angry? If someone is hurt, should we accept that, and perhaps see it as their just deserts from a past life?

I don't know any of that. That statement about 'desire to escape' came out wrong. I think that this could be true if you follow the authoritarian way. I'm choosing to see the bright side often, because I also have a life and responsibilities that needs to function. It can be just as dark and evil, but to be honest it freaks me out if I go too deep. I've become very sensitive so I can't handle the same doses of evil as I used to, hehe. And you should definitely be angry when you need to. Many people can't get angry, and end up completely depressed. You need to get the bad shit out, but when you are above feeling angry then you can act better. Anger, I feel, is in the ego energy and that does not improve the learning from dreaming or tripping in my opinion. So I just guess it doesn't improve your situation when you die, no matter what your plan is

Do you see the issue? Being passive and accepting, is a fantastic ideology to foster in one's victims. For someone who likes to victimise others, how good if their victims accept their wrongs, don't get angry, etc? Don't you think you need to know how to live right, in the present world, in order to 'graduate'? And that this might mean getting angry and doing something about it? Is pain to be avoided or to be used to learn?

I see, I see. I don't see myself as passive, but also I'm not rushing into the battlefield before I'm ready. I think pain can develop our compassion and empathy, but too much is surely destructive.

Gotta go now. cheers.

 

[feralimal]

Cheers for your frank and honest reply. I get where you are coming from. It seems to me that the more I look the less I know too.

I like pretty much all that you said, but there's one bit I want to comment on.

I'm very open to the "harnessing" of lives concept. How exactly can this be better understood? Is it evil? Or is it just a part of the underlying structure for your consciousness even to exist or come to existence? I don't know. I know my body consists of billions of cells. They die, the multiply. They (maybe) live their lives in a strict need to know system where I am the bigger result. I really don't want these cells to revolt against the plan (cancer).

I get the use of the word 'evil', and you are certainly not using it in an exceptional way, but nowadays I am stumped by what people really mean by it. I do think there is 'right' and 'wrong' for an individual... and it ends there! So, what is evil, where is it? I think Christians mean it to be the work of Satan. Perhaps 'evil' describes the 'wrong' feeling when lots of people share it. Anyway, I get confused by the term - its a sort of expression of a subjective sensation as if it is objective.

I'm certainly happier talking about terms of right and wrong for the individual.

If someone initiates an action against another, because say, their boss or the law tells them its ok to do so, are they doing wrong? I think so as its not possible to pass on the moral consequences of one's actions. On the other side, if you are being acted upon by someone, say a tax collector or policeman who is following orders, where you have not acted against them first, you really have been wronged. So, if you are unable to act freely, where you are doing no harm to others and yet you are being constrained, fined, imprisoned, forced in some way or other - I think this is a wrong. (You might call this 'evil'.)

Now you can say that experiencing rights and wrongs is simply a part of this experience. I wouldn't disagree with that. Trying to resolve 'moral' questions seems to be a requirement of some sort. Do we need to experience this in order for one's consciousness to come into existence? I can say that trying to uncover truth, looking into things in this way has enlivened my personal experience.

If we have the ability to discern right and wrong, what then? Do we just observe, implement it in our lives, try to live freely noting the constraints, express the understanding to others for greater awareness? I guess these are the questions for the individual to answer, but there are consequent actions that follow.

Re your cell example - I don't know if that is how things actually work. To me, cells are a model - I don't know if there are billions of them. I don't know if there is a collective whole (the body). I think the cell-body metaphor you use, bakes in the type of answer that you can find - you are a cell in a collective. And this ties in with the distinction I was trying to make re 'right/wrong' (subjective experience) or 'evil/good' (objective "experience"). Anyway, I get what you are saying, I just don't know if it is the right metaphor. I can't assume there is a collective of which I am a part (much as I would like to) as that is not the experience I have. Perhaps that we are all one is the ultimate truth - I don't know. I'll let you know if I get there!

 

[psymon]

Good morning
I also completely get what you're saying, and have a little comment for the evil part.

Re your cell example - I don't know if that is how things actually work. To me, cells are a model - I don't know if there are billions of them. I don't know if there is a collective whole (the body). I think the cell-body metaphor you use, bakes in the type of answer that you can find - you are a cell in a collective. And this ties in with the distinction I was trying to make re 'right/wrong' (subjective experience) or 'evil/good' (objective "experience"). Anyway, I get what you are saying, I just don't know if it is the right metaphor. I can't assume there is a collective of which I am a part (much as I would like to) as that is not the experience I have. Perhaps that we are all one is the ultimate truth - I don't know. I'll let you know if I get there!

Well. As Above so below. I definitely feel my consciousness is part of a collective in some way, even though my own experiences only have subtle indications for this. It could very well be possible that we are both a collective and also one. I believe there's a loooong way to the ultimate truth, many scales of existence, so it's not really super relevant for me yet. I need more understanding of the immediate level above me, as the first step.

But yeah. Maybe this body has been designed to be a vessel for a soul. In this way, my soul consciousness would exist before the body, and really doesn't need it. Nevertheless, I wouldn't be me without it. I see it as a powerful tool. Tools are neutral

But to determine if this collective is good or bad is also a bit irrelevant. Some people are(act) good/righteous, and some people are(act) bad/evil, but the underlying structure of our existence is the same system (i guess). I feel that whenever we are jumping from scale to scale in the philosophy of the cosmos, then good and evil, right and wrong, kind of merges together in some kind of neutrality.

Not that I believe in everything that Michael Newton says, but if you don't have this collective feeling, maybe your soul didn't get born on earth. Maybe you have a special past as an Explorer from a different place, or even a special purpose. Maybe the "Elders" are grooming us to actually fight the parasites that have infected us (this life structure), and this is their way of interacting and balancing this realm. Maybe there are both good and evil Councils of Elders playing a game with us.

And about the anger from the previous post. If you don't feel angry when someone else is hurt by another, you are in a way better situation to understand why this happened, and then take a calculated action to change their view or future actions. Just because you're not angry, doesn't mean that you are indifferent.

Everything can be turned around with an open mind. You say that it is in favor of TPB to induce this idea of everything is good and so on, to pacify the victims (you and me) but I also see more and more pushing for the soul trap idea. So if their plan is to infiltrate/copy this reincarnation system, then it would be perfect for them to tell people that they are trapped in a bad/fake structure. This way they can trick us into leaving the "good/natural" Michael Newton "structure" in favor of the real soul trap they are designing. Personally i think the elites are obsessed with the idea of hacking reincarnation or to copy this structure on earth.

To finish of, I would like to emphasize my own conclusion from The Immortality Key by Brian Muraresko. If YOU identify yourself as more than your body with a higher consciousness, then YOU are actually able to merge with the HIGHER YOU upon death. If you don't, well, then it's not YOU that lives on after death, and YOU have died as a single life of a bigger entity. To interpret further, if you live like a beast, you are the beast, the beast will die. If you live like a higher being, controlling the beast, you still exist after the beast dies.

 

[feralimal]

You say that it is in favor of TPB to induce this idea of everything is good and so on, to pacify the victims (you and me) but I also see more and more pushing for the soul trap idea. So if their plan is to infiltrate/copy this reincarnation system, then it would be perfect for them to tell people that they are trapped in a bad/fake structure. This way they can trick us into leaving the "good/natural" Michael Newton "structure" in favor of the real soul trap they are designing.

I'm not 100% on the soul trap idea - I think there are problems with it too. Partly of how can they know and speak so confidently about something that cannot actually be objectively known (even if it is may be possible to have personal experience). Some commentators are a bit evangelical - though maybe they are just trying to grow their 'brand'. But when it comes to scale, there is surely no comparison re which idea is more widely promoted? The new age positivity ('toxic positivity') is effectively all that is publicised.

If YOU identify yourself as more than your body with a higher consciousness, then YOU are actually able to merge with the HIGHER YOU upon death. If you don't, well, then it's not YOU that lives on after death, and YOU have died as a single life of a bigger entity. To interpret further, if you live like a beast, you are the beast, the beast will die. If you live like a higher being, controlling the beast, you still exist after the beast dies.

And if you identify as pizza do you live on as pizza?

Perhaps you get what you want... I don't know. Part of the issue is that we have been imprinted and conditioned with certain ideas - ie: being an outsider is uncomfortable, we want to be good and perceived to be as good by others, we don't want to die, etc. As one moves through life too, it is possible that your thoughts change - when can one say one has a finished understanding? And, when you consider that even our own emotions and patterns of thinking have been moulded to some extent by our culture etc - they may not be serving us and may not be faithful, true understandings - how to counter that, and can you unpicking the years of programming? Finding resolution, uncovering permanent truth, when it seems that we are ourselves are finite and changing is quite the task!

 

[tastetherainbow]

6/ Mark Passio - video

There is lots of great evidence in this presentation, great questions are raised.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiCnrn6LkUo

• I like the fact that Mark is not stating that what he presents as the truth, but that it is the best theory that he had (at that time - 2013).
• He presents a great collection of evidence.

There are certainly bits that aren't 100%:

• This is a somewhat historical presentation, partly based on Zecharia Sitchin who I think has been discredited as using too much artistic license in his translations.
• Mark over-states some things - eg that chimpanzees are 3 times stronger than humans - most research seems to think this more like 1.3 times.

I am pretty forgiving of some of the data that I think is incorrect, partly because I think back then that data may have been widely accepted. I don't think he personally verifies things enough, but he has read (and watched) a lot!

Optimism score: 5/10
Theory strength: 4/5

I would like to preface this by stating I am stupid and know nothing.

I had never heard of Mark Passio but after watching this video it almost makes me want to start a separate thread dissecting this theory. It could also explain other theories like (IHASFEMR), Free Masonry, Zoo Theory, Illuminati, Invisible College, Occulted Knowledge, Esoteric Knowledge, UFO’s, Unexplained Architecture, etc.

I'm writing this out just to get my thoughts together, I may create a separate thread...

I think the questions he raises point to an archetypal story present in the collective unconscious of the human species expressed in myth and tradition. Of what nature this story comes from I make no claim, I personally have no clue what we live on/in, or where these entities may have come from or their motives.. but if we stand back and look at the bigger picture I think we may have some answers to why people are lying about history today or at least know what the people in power believe. Whether true or not I think this story influences major world religions, popular cults, governments, societies, secret societies and really most of humanity, which makes it true to some degree. Also I would like to add that even though this has a Sitchen undertone we cannot dismiss the theory in its entirety. Obviously Sitchen got some stuff right because when looking at other scholars writing about Mesopotamian, Pre-Babylonian myth it's all the same general story...

Here's what I took away and analyzed.

The thesis statement/questions:

• Humans as a species, whether true or not, are influenced by the psychological implications of "Cosmic" Abandonment.
  • Why do humans want unconditional love? Do humans want unconditional love? Why is psychedelic experience synonymous with unconditional love? Why does AA require you to believe in a higher power that loves you unconditionally to help with addiction?
  • What is natural human psychology like? Are primitive tribes guilty?
  • The "gods"/human creators "rebelled" against the Creator and did not follow the "natural" creation process. Is this “original-sin”? Why is there a collective self-loathing? Or why are we told through myth and religion we should be guilty as a species?
  • Some gods wanted to abolish humans as they were a mistake and humanity at the time was "immoral". Did they try to destroy humanity several times described by cataclysms due to humanity's "moral failings"?
  • Are humans hybrids, not following darwinian evolution, but Intelligent Intervention? Pigs, ape, humans?
  • Are Myths/Traditions historical accounts of entities creating humans as slaves for unknown purposes (Some say it was for mining resources)? Is there evidence for ancient mines? Peru?
  • To "Domesticate/control" humans, did these entities introduce agriculture, shame/guilt feedback loop systems and hierarchy systems? What is kingship and monarchical government? Why did humans with the same prefrontal cortex and reasoning capabilities today believe in divine right to rule through genetics? Is there evidence today that shows people in power somewhat obsessed with genetics?
  • Were hierarchy systems made to serve the gods? Were they based on genetic relation to some of the gods (who mated with humans and made demigods) are the structures of the old world homes for these (giant-human) demi-gods and priest kings?

My Questions/Additions

• The Abrahamic tradition/story says their people wait for a messiah to save humanity through Grace by the Creator... Why?
• Whether true or not, according to the narrative, in the Christian Religion the Creator sends a Messiah to send a message that the Creator loves them anyway... Why?
  • Were power structures are then questioned, is this what caused the invisible college formed
  • Start erasing/rewriting history to maintain the power structure/order
• Is there proof for the Creator through Unified Field Theory?
• Did humans become free and work with the Creator (Unified Field Theory) to make incredible infrastructure and technology

I don't have time to address each of these questions at the moment as I am still gathering my information and thoughts but I would like to touch on human nature or what I believe to be an example of true human nature.

My main question: Are the feelings of guilt, shame, love, and other "higher" conceptual abstractions due to innate hardwiring and/or some spiritual nature or is it learned behavior?

North Korean Refugee Yanomi Parks is a good Case Study

She states that they have no concepts other than "we", "the regime" and "Kim Jong-Un". She has no feeling of guilt or shame, kids dont have feelings of guilt or shame when running around dead bodies because "they dont know they're supposed too". Theres no sign of burials, afterlife or funerals. This is a clue to me that humans learned this behavior... Since the dawn of "civilization" and even before we can find "said to be" primitive humans having huge funerals, burials and afterlife acknowledgment. Who showed humans these concepts and where did humans learn them from? Was it interdimensional through psycho-chemicals, or was it physical beings... could be either one but it is my understanding that they may have been SHOWN these concepts.

 

[feralimal]

I would like to preface this by stating I am stupid and know nothing.

Lol

If you can admit that, you're doing fine in my book! Being able to admit you know very little seems to me to be the baseline of honesty that is required to proceed. Believing 'you know', when in fact 'you believe' (but can't tell the difference for yourself), is to spend one's life looking for your answers in someone else's story.

Mark Passio has his weak points (imo, he takes provided information at face value, and doesn't often consider the possibility that lots of it is fake), but even so I think he is excellent and worth the time to listen to.

I love your questions and thoughts. These are very similar to my own. In all the theories I put forward I think I see different answers/parts of the answer. Perhaps we can never get to the end, but I plan to die trying!

My own sense is that we have been engineered and that certain characteristics were fostered in us, eg herd-like behaviour, a servile nature, lack of independence (physically, psychologically). I also think there are a whole host of characteristics that can dialed up or down via manipulation of the environment (eg food, vaccines, technology). Still we do have a spirit of inquiry and reason on our side, and these can be used to override the negative traits we have. Its a pity that most people don't seem to make the effort to achieve independent thinking though, as our tendency towards collective behaviour seems well understood and straightforward to manage for our controllers. But then, one can only work with what one has - ie one can only work on oneself, so I try not to concern myself too much with the choices others make.

Re the controllers, they seem to have a far better handle on who we are and how we function than we do. The metaphor I sometimes use is that of a boiler (hot water heater) We are at the consumer level and get access to the boiler's user's manual - so we know to turn it on and get hot water, etc. The controllers however, seem to have access to the installation manual - this gives them awareness of 'pipes' and 'controls' that the consumers are simply unaware of - when they switch off the water at the mains this comes as a shock to the consumer! Still, they are not creators of the boiler itself or the 2 manuals - they simply have more information - ie there may be a higher group of controllers than even they. Continuing with my (tortuous?) metaphor, my reading is that perhaps our controllers' ultimate aim is to gain the ability to create boilers for themselves, and so achieve a further elevation.

Anyway, thanks for your post and I look forward to hearing more of your thoughts on this, whether on this thread or your own.