New buildings on old foundations or lower floors.

[iseidon]

I did not find a similar specific thread on the site. Only «Alternative explanation for floors below ground: buildings GREW, not built». Which doesn't quite fit my intent.

During the dispute with user @kd-755, the topic of hypothetical underground foundations came up. @kd-755 rightly noted that there is not enough evidence to consider that the building (Palace of Farmers in Kazan) was built on old underground foundations.

I totally agree with him in this, so I decided to open this thread, so that any user can post photos which show (preferably during the global redevelopment) that the "new", much taller than old buildings were built either on the old foundations or on the lower floors of the old building.

Since users from all over the more or less developed world sit here with examples of "ancient" architecture, I think there is an opportunity to collect in one place a large number of examples of such superstructures.

Especially interesting will be those buildings that were built on a large height, but before this building was not carried out capital work to strengthen the foundation. Such work cannot be hidden from the observer, because it is necessary to dig out the ground around the perimeter of the building to make the reinforcement.

If no such work was done, then it is obvious that the foundations of 1-2-3-story "ancient" buildings, which grew in height by 1.5 and more times, were obviously not meant for low-rise buildings.

The generally accepted version, explains this discrepancy more often so - "Ancestors built qualitatively and for centuries". In my humble opinion, it is very close to delirium. Because by the level of architectural performance of "ancient" buildings it is clear that they were built by specialists of high level and qualification.

This in turn suggests:

1) a developed system of training (wherever such buildings are found; especially, not in isolated cases).

2) the developed system of standardization of both building materials and tools or their analogues. Moreover, this system of standards was quite flexible, as it allowed the construction of buildings with building materials of different sizes in the same style from Chile to Siberia and from Australia to Canada.

3) about well-developed logistics in the broad sense of the word, which includes developed and coordinated organization of production and production cycles from manufacturing of machines to commissioning of the building.

I'm sure there are other traits, but I think these traits are enough.

Without all of the above attributes, the construction of buildings in a single style around the world is impossible. Official versions about conditional semi-literate (or even graceless; depending on your region and its specifics) peasant workers, who built all these masterpieces observing such a high level of performance, do not withstand any criticism.

Today, it is enough to walk through the cities of the world to see how unskilled or low-skilled construction workers work. Brickwork (for example) of the highest level is achieved only by employing workers of the highest qualifications.

In the global metropolis (USA+CA+UK+AUS+NZ+partly South Africa, Western Europe, Japan+South Korea+Taiwan, and the richest metropolises in the world), the human resources situation is better, so most buildings there are built at a fairly high level of workmanship.

In other countries, however, the level of construction work often leaves much to be desired.

On the example of Yekaterinburg (a typical city of millionaires in the colony of modern metropolis with traces of "ancient architecture"), it is clearly visible.

The brickwork in pre-revolutionary buildings is of the highest level. After the revolution and up to the 60's - more often than not - awful. Since the 1960s, on average, acceptable (depending on who the building is built for).

The main conclusion that emerges from all of the above is that the social system that was able to provide such buildings around the world was able to calculate the right foundations for these buildings. And if we see that on the conditional two-storey building five more are built on - this indicates that the foundation under the "ancient" building was designed not for two floors. Hence, questions immediately arise. How high were these buildings and where are the real foundations of such buildings.

In a previous thread, I pointed out the building for which the excavation was dug and ground consolidation to preserve the nearby historic buildings. On the link (ru), there are photos of foundation reinforcement of the neighboring historical building (Central Department Store (ru) in Voronezh), built in the 1950s, but on the site of a pre-revolutionary building.

The photos in the basement clearly show that the level of masonry is very different.

In my opinion, the following has happened. There was an old building with a smaller perimeter and fewer floors. And on top of that building (with a strong foundation) were built up several floors, as well as expanded on a number of sides. That's why we see that, when working in the basement, the closer to the center of the building, the better the masonry. And vice versa.

Later I will publish an example of a superstructure from Yekaterinburg (Glavpochtamt and Central Gastronome).

 

[wommak]

There is one important thing about buildings and foundations (especially with the size of the building), and that is the depth the soil freezes to. Not mentioning type of the soil, ground water levels etc. Years back when I was studing in Poland, they put much students attention to that when designing building.

Strefy przemarzania gruntu
Strefa Zone	I	II	III	IV
Głębokość przemarzania [m] Depth of freezing	0,8	1	1,2	1,4
Głębokość układania instalacji wodno-kanalizacyjnej[m] Depth of water and sewege pipes	1	1,35	1,6	1,85

Here in UK for stone built castles the foundations would, wherever possible, been built directly onto the bedrock. The builders would dig down to the rock before leveling it to create the strongest possible foundation. The stones for the walls would be laid directly onto the bedrock. If there was no suitable bedrock or it was too deep, then a similar approach to that used today for buildings would be used. The builders would dig a deep and wide trench, then fill it with rubble that was packed down as firmly as possible to create a solid foundation. The wall stones would be built on the compacted rubble. Castles of England/Construction Techniques - Wikibooks, open books for an open world

I assume it would be wise to use old existing well settled foundations to bild on again instead of doing it all over again with everything involved in process.
Another question is what was the climate and soil conditions back then when they designed and built those 'old world' buildings? And when you include events like deluge, mud flood, mud rain, earthquake, nukes? or any other catastrophic event and that causes sudden change of climate?

 

[iseidon]

I agree with you on the level of ground freezing and other features. They, of course, must be taken into account. But in most cases, it may not even be necessary, because you can clearly see that the buildings are built on top of the old building.

On the rocks. The question arises, what are rocks? Are they not molten (or otherwise deformed) cities or architectural structures?

In Yekaterinburg, there are Kamennye Palatki (ru) and Chertovo Gorodishche.

There are many versions of these sites. Near the Kamenny Palatki is Lake Shartash (ru), which is elliptical in shape (seems to be connected from two small ellipses).

Next.

An example of a superstructured building from Yekaterinburg.

Gastronome, Lenina 41.

1895.

1928-1930.

1932-1933

1932-1933

1950-55

2015-2020

Yekaterinburg, Old Volkov House, Lunacharskogo 210.

2010s.

 

[Blackdiamond]

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OK1zRl-9Zjw

Cant find the thread now, but how about an second ground level.​

There are also some photos from rus of bricked up windows below the ground, taken from inside. Somewhere. Building on top isnt that extraordinary if it modern.

 

[iseidon]

On the building of the Prado Museum. Good example, but it only perhaps indicates that the building has been partially dug up. It seems unlikely to estimate the foundation from visible features.

In cases where a large number of floors are added to a building - it almost always indicates that the foundation is very strong and is not designed for a conditional 1-2 floors.

On dolmens. The subject is very difficult for me. "My" generalized version is that dolmens and man-made (which look like this) stone formations are the remnants of a past civilization that has undergone a conditional melting down of most of the world.

There is a version on the Internet that New York City (Manhattan) stands on a similar rock. Why is it possible to build skyscrapers there with a similar density of buildings. In areas where the rock is under a layer of soil - there piles are driven up to this rock, and then the building is put on these piles, which are anchored in the rock.

I don't think this is only found in New York City. It's just that New York is the most famous case.

And the dolmens are just tiny remnants of that civilization (which is located at our altitude), of which the rock (is it a rock?) under Manhattan is a part.

UPD.

By the way, note the growth of the cultural layer. Checkmate, alternate history.

The streetcar tracks appear to be really paved, not excavated.

 

[iseidon]

Photohistory. Wales House, Sydney.​

Today, I want to show you a photohistory of a corner flatiron-shaped building in Sydney.

The building is located at 64-66 Pitt Street at the intersection of three streets: Pitt, Hunter, and O'Connell. And from the north, the modern building touches Spring Street.

PIC 0.1 | Wales House. Source: Wikimedia, 2012.
​

A number of sources indicate that the building was built on the site of the old Herald Building.

Three phases of the building are mentioned.

But it is not mentioned that the current Wales House (WH) was built on the site of three (or five) buildings.

PIC 0.2 | Conditional plan
​

1. Herald Building (HB).

2. Fairfax (conditional) Buildings (FBs).
2a. FB on Pitt Street (FBP).
2b. FB on O'Connell Street (FBC).
2ba. FBC-1 at the time of construction of the first phase of the WH in the 1920s.
2bb. Demolished (or coordinately rebuilt) part of FBC-2 when the second phase of WH construction began in the 1920s.

3. Dixson Buildings (DBs).
3a. DB on Pitt Street; Old Oriental Bank (DBP or OOB).
3b. DB on O'Connell Street (DBC).

Construction of WH in the 1920s.

The1. Construction of the first phase of WH at DBC and FBC-2 sites.
The2. Construction of the second phase of WH at FBC-1, HB and FBP sites.
The3. Construction of the third phase of WH on DBP site.

We are done with the conditional abbreviations.

Three days of searching for photos and images accumulated about 60 files.

I divided them into 4 categories and 10 groups.

Let's start browsing.

Category 1​

Photo of the buildings before WH construction began.

Group 1.1​

The photo without the electric poles and with the dirt road is of terrible quality.

PIC 1.1.1 | HB, FBP, OOB (DBP). Source: State Library of NSW.
Herald Office.
New Zealand, Hobart, Melbourne and Sydney / from an album of photographs with the inscription]
«Colonel Trevor, 14th Regiment, November 10th, 1869»

PIC 1.1.2 | HB, FBP, FBC, OOB (DBP). Source: State Library of NSW.
Herald Office.
Photographs of Public and Other Buildings, &c.

PIC 1.1.3 | OOB (DBP), FBP. Source: State Library of NSW.
Bayliss, Charles. (1873).
Oriental Bank, Spring Street, and Bradley, Newton & Lamb's Auction Rooms.
Corner Pitt and O'Connell Streets, Sydney.

PIC 1.1.4 | HB. Source: State Library of NSW.
Looking west along Hunter Street to George Street, from the Currency Lass Hotelo.
Corner of Pitt and O'Connell Streets, Sydney.

PIC 1.1.5 | HB. Source: State Library of NSW.
Looking west along Hunter Street to George Street, from the Currency Lass Hotel.
Corner of Pitt and O'Connell Streets, Sydney.
​

Note the element in front of the HB in the last two photos.

PIC 1.1.6 | HB, FBP, OOB (DBP). Source: State Library of NSW.
[Pitt Street at Hunter Street].
Album of views, illustrations and Macarthur family photographs, 1857-66, 1879 / by various photographers.
​

Group 1.2​

The photo with the electric poles and the dirt road is of average quality.

PIC 1.2.1 | OOB (DBP), FBP, HB. Source: National Library of Australia.
Kerry, Charles H. (1883).
General view of Pitt Street, Sydney.

PIC 1.2.2 | DBC, FBC, HB. Source: National Library of Australia.
Kerry, Charles H. (189-?).
Horse-drawn carriages along O'Connell Street from Bent Street, Sydney.​

Note the tree in the building (either FBC or DBC). Possibly a retouch.

PIC 1.2.3 | HB, FBC, DBC. Source: National Library of Australia.
Kerry, Charles H. (1899).
O'Connell Street, Sydney, 1899.

PIC 1.2.4 | HB, FBs, DBs. Source: Flickr.
Herald Office, 1899.
Tyrrell Photographic Collection, Powerhouse Museum​

Note the effect at the top of the photo. Probably a defect. But maybe it's something else.

PIC 1.2.5 | HB. Source: National Library of Australia.
Australia Federation celebrations, street scenes and decorations, Sydney, 1901.
​

Group 1.3​

Photo with electric poles, streetcars, and paved road.

PIC 1.3.1 | HB. Source: State Library of NSW.
Western Hunter Street.
Hood Collection part II:
[City streets and scenes: including streetscapes, labour processions,
military parades and memorials, statues and Cenotaph]

PIC 1.3.2 | HB. Source: National State Library of Australia.
Fairfax Corporation.
Men getting onto a tram on Pitt Street, Sydney,1911.

PIC 1.3.3 | DBs, FBP, HB. Source: State Library of NSW.
Mrs. Arthur George Foster.
Series 01: Glass negatives of Sydney and suburbs ca. 1900-1914.

Note that the OOB has two floors added to it.

PIC 1.3.4 | DBC, FBC, HB. Source: National Library of Australia.
Fairfax Corporation.
Herald newspaper and Dixson building on O'Connell Street, Sydney, ca. 1920s.
​

Group 1.4​

Photo with streetcars and paved road, but without electric poles.

PIC 1.4.1 | HB. Source: State Library of NSW.
Looking west, showing the Herald Office, 1923
​

Category 2​

Photo during the construction phases of WH.

​

Group 2.1​

Photos showing the progress of the work on The1.

PIC 2.1.1 | The1, FBC1, HB, DBP. Source: National Library of Australia.
Fairfax Corporation.
Herald Building on Hunter and Pitt Street, Sydney, ca. 1920s.

PIC 2.1.1 | The1, HB, FBC1. Source: State Library of NSW.
O'Connell Street, Hunter Street; South British Insurance Co.
​

Group 2.2​

Photos showing the progress of the work on The2.

PIC 2.2.1 | The2, DBP. Source: National Library of Australia.
Foster, A. G.
Sydney Morning Herald office, construction work, 1920s.

PIC 2.2.2 | The2, DBP. Source: State Library of NSW.
Photographed by Arthur Ernest Foster.
Box 23 No. 249. Sydney Morning Herald, Hunter Street, 1924-6.

Note the gray to white transition at the top of the picture.

PIC 2.2.3 | The2, DBP. Source: State Library of NSW.
Volume 2: Old Sydney, 1924 / Alice M. Haigh.
28. and 29.[ Pitt Street near corner of Spring Street - see photo No.7 ].

PIC 2.2.4 | The2. Source: State Library of NSW.
Photographed by Arthur Ernest Foster.
Box 23 No. 246. Sydney Morning Herald, Hunter Street, 1924-6.

PIC 2.2.5 | The2, DBP. Source: State Library of NSW.
Photographed by Arthur Ernest Foster.
Box 23 No. 247. Sydney Morning Herald, Hunter Street, 1924-6

PIC 2.2.6 | The2. Source: State Library of NSW.
Looking east from George Street, 1926.

PIC 2.2.7 | The2, DBP. Source: Getty Images.
The Sydney Morning Herald building in Hunter Street Sydney completed in 1929.

PIC 2.2.8 | The2, DBP. Source: National Library of Australia.
Foster, A. G.
Sydney Morning Herald building construction.​

Group 2.3​

Photos showing the progress of the work on The3.

PIC 2.3.1 | The3. Source: State Library of NSW.
Hall & Co.
The South British Insurance Co.; O'Connell Street.​

Category 3​

Photos of WH after the completion of construction work.

Group 3.1​

Photos showing the WH already built. The steetcar rails, are still in place. Pre-war cars, drive along the road.

PIC 3.1.1 | WH. Source: Historic Photographs.
Pitt street looking towards Harbour Bridge.
Sydney, NSW, AU 1930's.

PIC 3.1.2 | WH. Source: Wikimedia.
Hunter Street, Sydney from The Powerhouse Museum​

Group 3.2​

Photos that show the WH. The streetcar rails have already been removed or paved over.

PIC 3.2.1 | WH. Source: National Library of Australia.
Hurley, Frank.
Pitt [Street] from Martin Place [Sydney, New South Wales].

PIC 3.2.2 | WH. Source: State Library of NSW.
[E. C. O'Neill photographs documenting buildings of Sydney 1960-1970's].​

Category and group 4/4.1.​

Images, but not photographs. I will not publish them here. Here is a link to the files.

Conclusion.​

This is such an interesting building.

In my opinion, the WH is built on the old foundations of five buildings.

The construction areas for the theoretical strengthening of the foundations were used as a warehouse of building materials.

Due to which we can conclude that no work to strengthen the soil and foundations was carried out.

(I would be glad if someone would provide photos of the strengthening of old foundations in the area of interest).

Accordingly, we can conclude that the old foundations of the 2-4 story buildings were capable of supporting an 11 story building.

Also the photos show that in the late 19th century and early 20th century, DBP (OOB) and DBC added two floors to each building, removing the gable from the original (in terms of photographic evidence) OOB building.

 

[iseidon]

Now, for the umpteenth time, I was looking through old photos of Yekaterinburg (I do this from time to time, to look at old photos with a new look each time). I was interested in this photo (1898 year).

Perhaps it is the ruined foundation of an old building. But the quality of the photo is low (I could not find a higher quality), so it is impossible to say for sure. Maybe someone has seen something similar.

Now, this building, which is part of a larger complex of buildings (rus), stands on this site (at least most of it falls in).

My photos of this building. Note the difference in the quality of masonry within the same building. About the underground windows, I think it's clear. Officially, it was built during the Soviet pre-World War II years.

This building, clearly visible in the first photo, helped us identify the place. StreetView.

This photo from the late 1920s shows the construction of the top of the building of one of the houses that is part of the building complex. StreetView.

Part of the complex, which overlooks Pushkin Street. 1928-29. StreetView.
Compare the width of the window openings of the old and new building, at the bottom right of the photo.

​

This brick building stands directly behind the ancient structure (in the previous photo).

​

Guess what we'll see if we remove the construction plaster from the first two floors?
Two more floors were added to the old two-story (visible part) building.
"Nothing out of the ordinary".

 

[thewhitepeakcoffee]

That's fascinating, thanks for sharing.

 

[iseidon]

Recently I was looking for information on the underground part of Berlin (deu). Of course, the search pointed to the subway tunnels and the sewers.

Berlin combined sewer. It is possible that the facing brick is hiding an older base. Source.​

But I found the Bötzow-Brauerei (deu) brewery complex interesting.

Bötzow quarter before the reconstruction.​

In youtube there is a video, which shows a tour group going down into the underground part of the complex (the building complex is located on a relief terrain; I've already brought up a similar topic in this and this post).

The video clearly shows that this is an ancient-style dungeon. Assuming that the video is made in the underground part of the building, the following conclusion can be made. The vaulted ceilings in the underground part of the building are very high (at least 5 meters).

The highlight of the tour of the place was a walk through the 5000 square meter vaulted basement of the brewery. The first part was established in 1864 and has been expanded again and again. Source (deu).

In modern times, an office and cultural center of several buildings has been built on the site. The historic remaining buildings have been preserved. David Chipperfield Architects led the redevelopment of the neighborhood.

Project photo from davidchipperfield.com​

While reading about the undergrounds of Berlin, I also came across pneumatic mail or Rohrpost (other link in Deutsch). In recent episodes of the White Collar series (season 6, episode 5 and 6), this theme is played up. Characters steal unmarked cash (secretly brought from Europe to New York for the Fed) using a pneumatic tube. The protagonists plan to steal 30 million unnoticed during the heist (by temporarily opening a pneumatic tube in a section in the sewer). A heist that the authorities will not tell the media or the general public about.

On stolenhistory, the topic of pneumatic tubes (but in a broader context than mail) has already come up in this forum thread.

I would like to point out that in Berlin there is an organization called «Berliner Unterwelten» (deu) which strives to research and preserve underground structures (at least that's what it claims). 2 years ago there was news about future possible bankruptcy (deu), but it was avoided.

Underground of Prenzlauer Berg.​

The Prenzlauer Berg neighborhood (where the Bötzow-Brauerei is located) appears periodically in movies. Keinohrhasen and Berlin Syndrome come to my mind.

---

Other links that relate to the underground part of Berlin and the Bötzow neighborhood:

Former Bötzow Brewery Building in Berlin. Description of the project of reconstruction of the quarter.

Bötzow-Brauerei-Gelände an der Prenzlauer Allee. A thread on stadtbild-deutschland.org dedicated to the reconstruction of the Bötzow-Brauerei.

FOTOSTRECKE: Untergründe. Photos of some of Berlin's underground tunnels.

Berlin's sewer system (rus). The article contains high-quality photos of Berlin's sewers.

Berliner Unterwelten. Die Catacomben der Berliner Stadtentwässerung. The video shows a brief tour of Berlin's tunnels underground.

(Doku in HD) Berlin von Unten - in den Tunneln der Hauptstadt. Moments where the sewer is shown (27:10-29:44 and 36:53-39:32).

Wasserwerke schlagen Alarm - Ratten im Berliner Untergrund - Doku Kurzfilm. At the beginning of the video there is footage from the sewers.

Die Adern von Berlin. The sewers are visible from 18:11-19:01. Also note the end scene with the credits. Behind the construction plaster you can see old large-format bricks.

 

[iseidon]

The Catacombs of la Iglesia de San Francisco.
Lima, Peru, Stephen Thorburn.​

Today, Lima is next.

The most famous site (in terms of undergrounds) in Lima is the Monastery of San Francisco. Beneath it are catacombs similar to those in Paris. They have already been mentioned on stolenhistory. I won't touch on the context of the burials. I am, at this point, more interested in the subterranean context.

For the past 3 days, I've been reading and watching videos about Lima's dungeons (I've been studying the etymological connection "bulkanie(gurgle->hello,google->movement and bubbling of information)-bulk(ob'yom)-bulka(bread)-boil(kipet')-bull(byk)-bell(kolokol'nya)-belly(zhivot-puzo)-bowel(kishechnik+nedry)-bellow(ryov)-bubble(puzyr')-bill(s'chyot+ukaz+beak-klyuv+sword-mech)-ball(myach)-bowl(chasha)-cup(kubok+chashka+kruzhka-krug-ring)-kupol(dome)-keep(protected in a bubble) etc" in parallel for the past two weeks, but that's a more complex topic).

In the history of the construction of the buildings I am interested in, there are often theories that the buildings were built on the site of old Inca buildings. Somewhere Chinese smugglers, somewhere the wishes of the rich (Omsk, Vrubel Museum), somewhere visiting architects and engineers (rus), somewhere followers of Mithraism, etc. There will always be those to whom we can attribute the construction of the dungeons (which don't quite fit the standard version of history). If such dungeons are discovered in Antarctica, we will probably hear about penguin builders.

Maybe someday historians (archaeologists, linguists) will learn to add two plus two. More precisely, maybe someday scientists will stop working for the sponsor. The current sponsor wants to see world history as the history of different nations, peoples, and cultures (guess what that history is for). Scientists are happy to comply with this whim. Most scientists in today's world are typical mercenaries (as are most people, so it's hard to blame scientists for anything) who do as they're told. A perfect reflection of the situation of the scientific world can be found in the movie "The Big Short" (the scene when the heroes come to the rating agency and want to know why an asset is falling in price, but the trading speculative price is rising; since the heroes expect the stock price to fall, they are not happy about this situation; the rating agency representative is the scientific community in miniature).



But let's move on to examples.

Catacomb in San Francisco Monastery.
Lima, Peru, Steve Mullensky.​

There's not much information on Lima's dungeons, but it's out there. The most interesting thing I found for a visual demonstration is a video showing a shallow excavation process at the San Francisco Monastery (StreetView, the fountain next to it as evidence of the temple complex's past purpose).

It clearly shows that the building has an arched subterranean window (but since it's only a video, keep in mind that this could be a planned production to attract tourists).

In addition to the video, there are two articles-reports in Spanish (first and second). But they don't contain much relevant information. There are also low-key tourist videos from public catacombs provided at this link. Plus there is a short post (esp) about the dungeons of the San Francisco Monastery from an architectural perspective.

There are also dungeons under the Government Palace (Palacio de Gobierno del Peru, Casa de Pizarro).

Journalists visit the dungeons of the Government Palace. Lima, 1981. Source (Paid access to read articles. Only the beginning of the article is visible).
​

The January 20, 1912 issue of Variety reported the discovery of an underground tunnel in Block 2 of the Chiron de la Union that led to the palace.

There are still tunnels or underground corridors accessible in the back garden of the Palace of Government. They were presented in Gonzalo Torres' program "A lavuelta de la Esquina", which indicated that they were part of the crypts of the ruined Church of Desamparados, on the site of which the garden is today. As we know, the crypts were burial places during the colonial era and were located under churches in their atriums.

Spoiler: The text is in Spanish.

El miércoles, los alrededores del Palacio de Gobierno fueron agitados por la curiosidad de los transeuntes, que comentaban nerviosamente ante un hueco abierto en el pavimento. Una carreta pesada y escandalosa, que iba por la calle de Palacio, comenzo á hundirse con el piso; cedió una rueda, sintióse un raro estrépito, y cuedó la carreta atascada. Al moverla apareció negro, húmedo, mal oliente, un hueco; husmearon los transeuntos y divisaron un pasaje subterráneo. Asombro. Revuelo de curiosos. Comentarios de actualidad y erudición histórica barata: "Los Jesuitas", "Los Vireyes", "La Vida Colonial". Tres capitulos interesantisimos que podrian venderse por cuadernillos á diez centavos. Vago rumor de actualidad politica.

La hora presente borrando empeñosa y pueril, la poesia vieja y amable del pasado. Conjeturas extraordinarias, y con ellas receloso myrar y escudriñar de los policiacos. Tal vez si un recóndito y también subterráneo deseo de que hubiera algo gordo dentro para gloria de quien lo descubriese, confusión de los culpables, y agradecimiento eficaz de la Patria reconocida.

El hecho es que el descubrimiento de este subterráneo ha sido la obligada comidilla de todos. El pasaje va de la casa que ocupa hoy el Instituto Molinares al subsuelo del Palacio de Gobierno.

Las autoridades están, como es natural, haciendo las investigaciones del caso, pero parece lo más probable que este pasaje sea uno de los tantos de que seguramende está llena la ciudad.

The passage leads from the house now occupied by the Molinares Institute (If anyone is interested in this topic, look for this building; it's hard to search on a smartphone, and the search doesn't produce any clear results) to the basement of the Goverment Palace.

The authorities are naturally investigating the case, but it is likely that this passageway is one of many that the city must be overflowing with.

Source (The article is called "The ghosts of the Government Palace").

The next site is the Church of the Orphans (esp; La iglesia de Los Huérfanos; StreetView).

Source. It is noteworthy that a search for similar pictures takes us to different places on the planet (Crimea, Rome, Israel, etc.). Compare how Yandex and Google's image search works.​

Beneath this beautiful church, descending a small staircase, we come upon a large vault with a large well in front. We believe that this well serves as an anti-seismic element, as it captures telluric waves that prevent it from expanding. Once past this well, a large wall is visible in the background, showing several niches, some open and others closed.

There is a video that shows the process (if the footage is not edited) of descending into the dungeons of the Church of the Orphans.

The same article says that the underground premises are the Church of Our Lady of Solitude Sanctuary (esp; StreetView; located next to the San Francisco Monastery) and the Church of Santa Ana (esp; StreetView).

There is also interesting information about the Casa Concha or Venetian Palace in Lima.

Casa Concha, Source.​

In the 18th century, a tunnel was drilled under the bed of the Rimac River to connect the estates of the noble family Vaga del Ren. Their domain also included the Venetian Palace.

There were several houses on the street, now gone because of demolitions, where the tunnel ended in one of them. It turned out that a large quantity of gold coins had been found in one of these houses.

News of the find leaked out and reached the military government of the fifties. They seized the residences and demolished them.

The demolition was done under the pretext of building a boardwalk along the river bank. This was not done, and soon the place served as a parking lot and then a street market.

Source (the text is adapted within the context of the forum thread).

It is currently occupied by the Alameda Chabuca Grande (esp; StreetView) and before it the Polvos Azules Shopping and Exhibition Center.

Source.

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Other references:

30/04/11: La Lima subterránea: la ciudad de los muertos. The article states that the network of tunnels in Lima is much larger than what is shown to tourists. This mystery is explained by state and military interests.

La Lima que no conoces: hallan misteriosos túneles debajo de una conocida iglesia. An interesting moment from 9:47.

17/06/2019: Las entrañas de Lima. A documentary in Spanish about the bowels (catacombs) of Lima.

 

[iseidon]

I was looking for which city to choose for the next post. I ended up with 10 cities around the world. There are 99 tabs open on my mobile browser.

And then it occurred to me to look at the dungeons of Irkutsk. I really don't know why I thought of Irkutsk. But... It so happened that 10 hours ago there was a video in Irkutsk, which fits my theme very well. In one of the courtyards, a group of people discovered dungeons and descended into them.

How not to believe in the theory that thoughts are waves... And the brain (which is tuned to receive corresponding thoughts) is their receiver/resonator/transmitter...

The failure in the center of Irkutsk turned out to be a network of underground rooms.​

Clip description.

In one of the courtyards of Irkutsk there were several collapses in the ground. Under the hole was found a small pre-revolutionary gallery. The video shows that it was reinforced in the early to middle years of Soviet power.

Pay attention to the surroundings of this place, as it is possible that many similar neighborhoods have similar dungeons.

In the comments to this video, there is a comment (image; text in Russian) stating that this has happened before on another street (Proletarskaya Street). But then everything was quickly rolled into asphalt.

Here's another link (there's a video (May 4) from the state channel, which I can't put here).

The location of the yard has not yet been determined. I'll post it here as soon as I find out.

Here is another video from Irkutsk five years ago:

Chekotov's marketplace has fallen into a mysterious underground city. Other video (A necessary moment at the end of the video with 20:37).​

The dungeon is somewhere around here (I identified it by the beige 4-story building).

There is an article without photos or video that talks about a wide network of dungeons in Irkutsk.

Somehow it seems to me that someone from above (or below) is leading me on this topic on purpose.

UPD.

Here's another news video about the dungeons of IVATU (rus; StreetView). The exact building is not listed due to military secrecy. The video has been removed from YouTube. Found it only on vk.




There is also a video that shows the IVATU town after the fire. There is also an article (rus) that lists fires from 2013 to 2022.