Sixteenth century maps from Tuscany

[Deleted member 37]

Stefano Bonsignori and Ignazio Danti were two central Italian cartographers from the sixteenth century. Their maps are located in Palazzo Vecchio, Florence.

About these maps it is officially said: “Of the 53 maps eventually completed, 30 were painted by Dominican friar Egnazio Danti (1564-1575) and 23 by Olivetan monk Stefano Bonsignori (1575-1586). Twenty-seven were taken from Ptolemy's Geographia (2nd century AD) though they were updated to reflect contemporary writing, while the others, including those of America, were taken from a variety of more recent sources.”
(Hall of Geographical Maps)

Here the links for the majority of the maps:
Stefano Bonsignori - Google Arts & Culture
Ignazio Danti - Google Arts & Culture

In this thread I’m going to translate as best as possible all the captions contained in their maps, which told a history quite different from the one told nowadays, be it correct or not. I will sometimes specify where I am not sure about the translation or whether there’s something interesting to say.

We start with the map titled ‘La Germania’ by Stefano Bonsignori.

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It is not to believe that people of so noble a Province (Provincia) such as Germania (Germany), handed down from the great father Noah (Padre Noe) to his dearest and youngest son Tuisto (Tuiscone), lived as grossly as their enemies the Romans (Romani) described. The Romans, not less than the Greeks (Greci), tried to destroy the ancient history of the other nations as much as their governments in order to enrich and honour themselves. Who is going to believe that the very stingy Romans spent so much money, lost so much time and shed so much blood without hoping for any prize? The Germans (Germani) lived peacefully, within their limits, defended by huge rivers, the extremely harsh mountains (alpe), a very dangerous sea, following their ancient laws and saintly habits. But when they grew in number they used to send out colonies, like the Cimbri (Cimbri), the Goths (Gotti), the Vandals (Vandali), the Alans (Alani), the Franks (Franconi), the Langobards (Longobardi), the Huns (Vnni) and others who got Spain (Spagna), France (Francia), Italy (Italia) and other provinces very busy, in order to expand their borders with the good orders of battle and then keeping them with caution, since they don’t want to serve others than themselves in their own territory. And they are very loyal to their own kind and also towards their allies. And since they are like brothers to each other, they left the name Teutons (Teutoni) and took that of Germans, and they have kept it.



Tuisto is in my opinion just the 'latinisation' of the word 'deutch' despite the explanations given on the wiki (Tuisto - Wikipedia). In modern Italian deutch people are called 'tedeschi'. So according to the caption the deutch people descended form a guy called Deutch who was the son of Noah. The wiki says the history of this biblical association was quite recent and attributed to a monk named Annio da Viterbo (Annio da Viterbo - Wikipedia). Tuisto was subsequently identified with Ashkenaz, son of Gomer, by James Anderson (c. 1679/1680 – 1739). Anderson is best known for his association with Freemasonry. (James Anderson (Freemason) - Wikipedia)

So I have two questions:
1. were deutch people really descended from Noah?
2. why should I believe in the identification of Deutch (Tuisto) with Ashkenaz, which apparently happened only in the 18th century?

Btw, the wiki on Annio da Viterbo is super-interesting since he is depicted as a fraud but at the same time talked about a different kind of history. It seems like they decided to censor his point of view!

 

[busy.baci]

I do like your posts, Silveryou. You know I would always like this kind of posts you make. But.
How could you explain that there is no Italic peninsula in the map you're showing us? The north of Europe is missing also. No Norway, no Sweden, no Finland. And what's up with the Franks up to now day Netherlands and Belgium.

But just wait, there is more to it. In the Balkans peninsula, Dardania, Bosnia, Ceraunij and Croatia are really off set from what we know today, their out of place and being shifted in the Europe map.

And what's up with Norvegia? Is it called Dacia now including Denmark and linked to Teutonia? And why Eastern Europe stretching up to now day Russia likely, it's not being depicted in this map? What's the problem showing St. Petersburg and Moscow? They were important urban centers after all. The map descriptions are not in Latin language, those are in Italian.

I wonder why.

 

[Deleted member 37]

You are too impatient. This is the first map of a series...

modern Italian language is first and foremost derived from Tuscan and these maps were done by Tuscans. I chose to call them Italians in order to be more comprehensible even though no one in that epoch dreamed and no one wanted a unified Italy, with the possible exception of the Pope.

 

[busy.baci]

modern Italian language is first and foremost derived from Tuscan and these maps were done by Tuscans. I chose to call them Italians in order to be more comprehensible even though no one in that epoch dreamed and no one wanted a unified Italy, with the possible exception of the Pope.

I understand you point of view. All I want is a better understanding and explanation of the map, the sources you provided are a lot in the old side of history spectrum.

About these maps it is officially said: “Of the 53 maps eventually completed, 30 were painted by Dominican friar Egnazio Danti (1564-1575) and 23 by Olivetan monk Stefano Bonsignori (1575-1586). Twenty-seven were taken from Ptolemy's Geographia (2nd century AD) though they were updated to reflect contemporary writing, while the others, including those of America, were taken from a variety of more recent sources.”

My questions are related to the geography of the dry land above the waters, because those coastlines are really interesting. Please, don't take my questions as an argument against you post. I already said that I like you post. But, I do have already plenty of maps which are weird for their time, and I'm wondering if I could post them, without upsetting other members or the already established line of history.
Your post is good, all I want from you is if you could explain the incongruousness with our maps regarding population and nation establishment with the map you showed already to us. If there are more maps you have, that's better.

But please, be advised, there will more questions from us that read it, and those questions will be in a constructive way.

 

[Deleted member 37]

But I don't have answers, at least not definitive answers. So maybe you can develop your own thoughts, possibly one at a time if you want to know what I think about it.

I'm not well acquainted with the historical geography of these places. The only thing it seems out of place is Prussia above Podilia (Podolia), a certain Rascia whose name is similar to Russia corresponding more or less with modern Serbia, the Ceraunij mountains which arrive in Bosnia/Croatia rather than be isolated in Albania (I know you want to talk about that, LOL) and the usual name Dacia for the Jutland. Maybe there's more!

Didn't check the cities (there's too much) but I know that modern Bratislava was Pressburg, as shown on the map.

edit: well, I don't know if Podilia is Podolia because there's also a Pars Podalie on the map.

 

[Deleted member 37]

Second map without a title (but it’s Chile and Argentina with the Magellan Strait) by Stefano Bonsignori.

This strait took the name of Strait of Magellan (Magaglianes) from its first discoverer, who, after facing many dangers, once he crossed said strait, reached the Molucca (moluche) islands. It was found again by Captain Juan Sebastián Elcano (Gio batista Cano), who passed through this strait with the ship Victoria (Vittoria). These were the first who passed there. This strait is 110 (CX) leagues in lenght while its width varies. In this province there is no notable thing, no written memory and very few information about it. This territory is owned by the catholic King Philip of Austria (Re Filippo d’Austria).



Here it is said that Juan Sebastián Elcano (Juan Sebastián Elcano - Wikipedia) found the strait a second time after Magellan on board of the Victoria. The wiki says he was on board of the Victoria during the first expedition and died in the Pacific during the second. A mistake on Bonsignori’s part or a different story to be told?

edit: The map shows two lakes side by side with Rio de la Plata on the right. But one of the two lakes is called Titicacha, the famous lake in Peru/Bolivia! These lakes seem to correspond to modern day Lago Salinas Grandes (or Lago Salinas de Ambargasta, or both) and Laguna Mar Chiquita, both in modern day Argentina.

​

About modern Lake Titicaca the wiki says (Lake Titicaca - Wikipedia): 'Given the lack of a common name for Lake Titicaca in the 16th century, the Spaniards are thought to have used the name of the site of the most important indigenous shrine in the region, thakhsi cala on the Isla del Sol, as the name for the lake. In time and with usage, this name developed into Titicaca. Locally, the lake goes by several names.'

Is this 'explanation' viable? Expecially seeing how the nearby lake was called Titicaza on the map. Another Isla there too? Possibly de la Luna?

 

[Randolph C.]

Now you kind of lost me. My questions regarding the map were general and wide spread out in geography. I did point out many incogruencies with our days maps, but you think that my objections has nationalistic flavor. No. Why should I? As much as I wold like to point out something about my country there, why should I do it, when there is a whole Italic peninsula missing in your map. Don't you think that is important, or did that just slipped through your logic and you focused on my potential intentions which are not the case here?

Hello!
There is no Italy.
Let me repeat that.
THERE IS NO ITALY!
Where is the Vatican???
Question mark.

Why should there be Italy on a map of GERMANIA? If you look closely, you see that "Parte d'Italia" is indicated at the bottom of the map, but without detail, west of the "Mare Adriaticum", where it is supposed to be. Parts of modern Italy, at that time under German Imperial rule, are depicted in detail, like South Tyrol and the entire coast line up to Trieste. I am sure there is a detailed map of Italy to follow in this thread. Concerning the city names I just checked some parts of Germany and am amazed at the level of detail, there are even small settlements that can't have had much more than a few thousand inhabitants at the time indicated.

 

[dreamtime]

The map implies that all of those modern European countries like Netherlands, Austria, Switzerland, Denmark, Poland, Hungary, etc. were part of ancient Germania, and simply names for german provinces.

The Ashkenaz connection can already be found in work by Matthias Quad (1557–1613). According to "Diskurse der Gelehrtenkultur in der Frühen Neuzeit", he writes:

Ascenas who is called Tuiscon​

The same was the son of Gomer.​

Whom Japheth after the deluge gave birth​

​

Regarding "Padre Noe" - is it possible, that the original meaning was simply something like "Our Father"? Noe and Nos are similar.

The Romans, not less than the Greeks (Greci), tried to destroy the ancient history of the other nations as much as their governments in order to enrich and honour themselves.

This is an impressive quote that directly references the Vatican forgery operation of the Renaissance.

While the usual narrative is that these kind of maps refer to the time of Ptolemy, I think what they really show is the old world pre-reset before the Fall of the Roman Empire, for example. So it makes sense that this map was published in the 16th century, in the century after the Fall of Rome.

Why should there be Italy on a map of GERMANIA? If you look closely, you see that "Parte d'Italia" is indicated at the bottom of the map, but without detail, west of the "Mare Adriaticum", where it is supposed to be. Parts of modern Italy, at that time under German Imperial rule, are depicted in detail, like South Tyrol and the entire coast line up to Trieste. I am sure there is a detailed map of Italy to follow in this thread. Concerning the city names I just checked some parts of Germany and am amazed at the level of detail, there are even small settlements that can't have had much more than a few thousand inhabitants at the time indicated.

It even has the city I grew up in with around 10k inhabitants today. And back then in 1600, population was only 1,000 people according to official history.

 

[Deleted member 37]

This is going to be interesting for the few people interested in history on stolenhistory. Third map titled ‘L’Egitto’ by Stefano Bonsignori.

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Saturn (Saturno), namely Ham (Cam) called Camese, the youngest son of Noah (Noe) of those born before the flood, was the First King (P° Re) of the very noble and famous Province (Provincia) of Egypt (Egitto), in which since the beginning all sciences and good arts flourished, sciences and arts which all the other Provinces took up claiming to be the inventors. This Province was not ruled by an absolute monarchy as the other ones but was ruled by more people, which moderated the royal actions for certain definite periods, and this government was called Dynasty (Dinastia) or Potentate (Potetato), which at first changed frequently. Later however those rulers, seduced by the well-being, began to stay more time in power sometimes even without a King. But during the 25th (XXV) dynasty the Ethiopians (Etiopi) killed King Bocchoris (Boccoro) and occupied Egypt. Afterwards it was freed and then taken back and kept by the Persians (Persi) during the 27th (XXVII) dynasty, until it passed under Alexander the Great (Alessandro il Grande) when he subdued them, whose successors left the title of Pharaohs (Faraoni) behind and called themselves Ptolemies (Tolemei). These ruled not only upon most of Africa (Affrica), but also upon the island of Cyprus (Cipri) and Phoenicia (Fenicia), until the Romans (Romani) took Egypt and reduced it into a Province. But it was taken away from them in the time of Emperor Heraclius (Eraclio Imperadore) by the Arabs (Arabi) and Saracens (Saracini), who brought it back under one Prince (Principe) called Sultan (Sultano) by them. But Selim (Selimo), great Lord of the Turks (Signore dei Turchi), obtained it and turned it into a Province during the rulership of the Emperor Maximilian (Massimiliano). The Sultans put out the ancient nobility and virtue of this land, but the superb pyramids still bear testimony to its greatness and power. And its inhabitants still enjoy the extraordinary fertility of the soil due to the Nile (Nilo), that every year inundates the entire country. Since it becomes very capacious due to its springs being located beyond the equinoctial in those places where it’s winter during the month of June (Giugno), the Nile was called Ocean (Occeano), after Ocean son of Noah, and the Province was called Aeria, which took a different name after its King Egypt. Contiguous to Egypt is the Province of Marmarica, fertile near the sea and barren elsewhere, celebrated for the famous temple of the great Jupiter Ammon (Gioue Ammone), to which the whole world longs for* an answer from its oracle.

* I'm not sure if the author meant this verb in the present or past tense. The word is concor, with a sort of 'crescent' upon the r. I will eventually add something if I encounter again this symbol pointing to one solution or the other, since the way I translated implies the temple was still used in the XVI century.



There are many things to say here, but the most important is probably the one about the egyptian dynasties. I didn’t expect that a map from the XVI century would somewhat confirm what Velikovsky said in his ‘Ages in Chaos’. There he stated that egyptian history was shorter than what commonly believed (this is not stated in the map obviously) because many of the various pharaohs actually lived and reigned in the same period of time upon various parts of Egypt.
Here I think the explanation, whatever the original source was, is even more convincing. The ‘dynasties’ were not the succession of pharaohs related by blood. A ‘dynasty’ was a government, and one which was elected in its components at first!
The only example that comes to my mind is that of current Italy, where we not officially had a ‘first republic’ from the end of WW2 to the fall of the Soviet Union and a ‘second republic’ from the Soviet Union untill now. Someone not-not-officially says a third one started these years (and I think they are right).
If I have to give an historical parallel to this system of power, where an unelected King was ‘supported’ by a government, Magna Charta England comes to mind, where the government was already composed of ereditary nobles. Another example could be the Roman Empire, where the emperor was supported by a Senate.
Whatever is the explanation these ‘dynasties’ probably coincided with the so-called priestly caste of ancient Egypt, drawing a parallel between this caste and the strange similarity in terminology between the Roman senate and the Christian clergy offices. A caste of priests-senators-nobles.
It seems that this caste managed to survive the various changes in rule of the Egyptian history, since dynasties survived after the Ethiopian conquest or the Persian one. But it was apparently ended by Alexander or his successors. What happened?

Aside this, another relevant thing is that the Nile was called Ocean (another son of Noah!!!). This could lead to some heavy confusion in terms of geography. Not going to expand my thoughts here though.

And last but not least, here Ham is said to be Noah’s youngets son before the Flood, implying many others after it! How could Bonsignori, who was a monk, be so ignorant. Why were there so many priests telling another story back then? Was the Bible really Jewish?

 

[asatiger1966]

But I don't have answers, at least not definitive answers. So maybe you can develop your own thoughts, possibly one at a time if you want to know what I think about it.

I'm not well acquainted with the historical geography of these places. The only thing it seems out of place is Prussia above Podilia (Podolia), a certain Rascia whose name is similar to Russia corresponding more or less with modern Serbia, the Ceraunij mountains which arrive in Bosnia/Croatia rather than be isolated in Albania (I know you want to talk about that, LOL) and the usual name Dacia for the Jutland. Maybe there's more!

Didn't check the cities (there's too much) but I know that modern Bratislava was Pressburg, as shown on the map.

edit: well, I don't know if Podilia is Podolia because there's also a Pars Podalie on the map.

Maps especially old ones are subject to change and quite rapidly. After the planet was hit by the object up north of present day Alaska the gods had to either abandon the planet, because the wobble was shattering earth into pieces or make an attempt to stop the wobble. They started moving land masses around to stabilize it. This happened often, this activity always created losers and winners.

The next phase was to install a system of energy bands that would help repel objects that might be attracted to the wobbles magnet - electro pull. Again these manipulations took time and different methods were used over that period. You are living on a planet that still has issues with survivability , we are a work in progress.

The planet can heal itself giving enough of certain vibrations at select frequencies. The Pyramids were one such adaptation out of many.

IMO, IMO

 

[Deleted member 37]

The Ashkenaz connection can already be found in work by Matthias Quad (1557–1613). According to "Diskurse der Gelehrtenkultur in der Frühen Neuzeit", he writes:

Ascenas who is called Tuiscon
The same was the son of Gomer.
Whom Japheth after the deluge gave birth

Good to know. Wikipedia being wikipedia as always. But my concern remains. Tuiscon is clearly a latinisation of 'deutch', which is reflected in the Italian 'tedesco'. You can see that 'tedesco' is the messed up version of 'deutch'. It makes sense, whether true or not, that the ancestor of the deutch people was called Deutch. It makes more sense than to say it was Ashkenaz!
Saying that Ashkenaz was son of Gomer and Gomer was in some way the one who gave Germany its name is not an explanation at all. It makes more sense that Deutch people acquired the new name 'Germans' in order to show their brotherhood. 'Hermano' means 'brother' in Spanish, so it fits more with the explanation than the Jew Gomer supposedly coming from the Middle-East.

Regarding "Padre Noe" - is it possible, that the original meaning was simply something like "Our Father"? Noe and Nos are similar.

We in Italy use Noè as a proper name for Noah. I remember the word 'nos' means 'we' in Latin, rather than 'our', which was expressed by the word 'noster', reflected in the Italian 'nostro'. So I don't know!

This is an impressive quote that directly references the Vatican forgery operation of the Renaissance.

While the usual narrative is that these kind of maps refer to the time of Ptolemy, I think what they really show is the old world pre-reset before the Fall of the Roman Empire, for example. So it makes sense that this map was published in the 16th century, in the century after the Fall of Rome.

Hard to tell the date. What I see on this map and also in the biography of that certain Annio da Viterbo of which I talked in the OP, is that Tuscans were fierce enemies of the Romans and they therefore pushed their own narrative. It seems logical that this point of view was defeated and subsequently neglected. I've come across multiple renaissance works which are litterally 'pagan', despite talking about biblical matters in a way that just one or two centuries after their epoch would be considered heretic.


Another thing to add. We are three maps in and we already have:
1. Tuisto being the last of Noah's sons (FALSE)
2. Ham being the last of Noah's sons before the Flood (implying he had more after - FALSE)
3. Ocean another of Noah's sons (FALSE)

Where did these guys took their infos? Are we supposed to believe they made up everything and managed to believe it despite their bibles under their noses telling a different story?

edit: Where is the tale of the crossing of the Red Sea and the Jews freed by Moses? It is supposed to be one of the most important biblical events in history and egyptian history in particular. Bonsignori was a monk. How could he omit it?

 

[busy.baci]

Good to know. Wikipedia being wikipedia as always. But my concern remains. Tuiscon is clearly a latinisation of 'deutch', which is reflected in the Italian 'tedesco'. You can see that 'tedesco' is the messed up version of 'deutch'. It makes sense, whether true or not, that the ancestor of the deutch people was called Deutch. It makes more sense than to say it was Ashkenaz!
Saying that Ashkenaz was son of Gomer and Gomer was in some way the one who gave Germany its name is not an explanation at all. It makes more sense that Deutch people acquired the new name 'Germans' in order to show their brotherhood. 'Hermano' means 'brother' in Spanish, so it fits more with the explanation than the Jew Gomer supposedly coming from the Middle-East.

I do agree with Silveryou with the name of "Gomer", that word in Albanian it is the plural of "donkie", I doubt a group of people would call themselves with that denomination, unless it's being used on purpose by another group in a derogatory way. The "Hermanos" way of describing the Germans makes much more sense and it's closer phonetically speaking.

It's interesting to note the end of the map's description. It mentions the Great Temple of "Gioue Ammone", do they really meant "the young Amon-Ra"? Even though Giove is meant for Jupiter. The map itself implies that the territory of North Africa is already a desert, it's being described in many topological denominations of the geography. But it raises many questions regarding the timeline of Alexander the Great and Eraclio or Heracles as an Imperator having to do something with the under earth, before the Romans took over Egypt, I'm not really able to translate it, I'm confused.

Why should there be Italy on a map of GERMANIA? If you look closely, you see that "Parte d'Italia" is indicated at the bottom of the map, but without detail, west of the "Mare Adriaticum", where it is supposed to be. Parts of modern Italy, at that time under German Imperial rule, are depicted in detail, like South Tyrol and the entire coast line up to Trieste. I am sure there is a detailed map of Italy to follow in this thread. Concerning the city names I just checked some parts of Germany and am amazed at the level of detail, there are even small settlements that can't have had much more than a few thousand inhabitants at the time indicated.

That was a mistake by my part, I wasn't paying enough attention to it, that confused me. I apologize.

 

[Deleted member 37]

About the temple of Jupiter Ammon, I went to the wiki page of the Siwa Oasis, where the ancient temple was placed . They say this one below was the temple...

... but the old town is dominated by the usual-unusual strange looking 'hill'!

 

[busy.baci]

About the temple of Jupiter Ammon, I went to the wiki page of the Siwa Oasis, where the ancient temple was placed . They say this one below was the temple...

View attachment 23226​

... but the old town is dominated by the usual-unusual strange looking 'hill'!

View attachment 23227View attachment 23228​

Very strange indeed. It looks what a melted multi stories building would look like, if it was destroyed and the floors collapsed over each-other in the absence of the supporting columns. And the village itself it looks like it's made of the same material as the hill, just it's bombarded and reduced to ruble. Only one minaret tower has survived close to that 2-stories square building, I wonder if that building was the template for the other houses or what ever that net-urban village thing was.

It's interesting to note the potentially mined hills in the background, they all share the same height above ground.

 

[Deleted member 37]

Very strange indeed. It looks what a melted multi stories building would look like, if it was destroyed and the floors collapsed over each-other in the absence of the supporting columns. And the village itself it looks like it's made of the same material as the hill, just it's bombarded and reduced to ruble. Only one minaret tower has survived close to that 2-stories square building, I wonder if that building was the template for the other houses or what ever that net-urban village thing was.

Yes I believe it's highly possible. The Wise Up dude on YT continuously talks about these things and possibly others too (don't know about the wood part). There's something similar in Italy in the town of Terracina, where according to an illustrated book from 1835 by Alexis-François Artaud de Montor the Palace of Theodoric the Great was located (1835 - Book Illustrations: Alexis-François Artaud de Montor). Similar 'melt-down' or 'collapsed' structures (or whatever they were and whatever happened).

edit: Oh! And above the structure in Terracina they say there was a temple to Jupiter Anxur (Tempio di Giove Anxur - Wikipedia). Isn't it funny?

 

[busy.baci]

Yes I believe it's highly possible. The Wise Up dude on YT continuously talks about these things and possibly others too (don't know about the wood part). There's something similar in Italy in the town of Terracina, where according to an illustrated book from 1835 by Alexis-François Artaud de Montor the Palace of Theodoric the Great was located (1835 - Book Illustrations: Alexis-François Artaud de Montor). Similar 'melt-down' or 'collapsed' structures (or whatever they were and whatever happened).

edit: Oh! And above the structure in Terracina they say there was a temple to Jupiter Anxur (Tempio di Giove Anxur - Wikipedia). Isn't it funny?

I've followed "Wise Up" channel for quite a while and I do admit, his analytical engineering skills are spot on, he has some very good ideas about what mounds could be, those are just collapsed domes structures without the supporting pillars. He's good, his problem is only his possessive attitude, other than that he's right on topic. You don't have much to look for these type of structures, just take a look at Gallipoli star fort city or Amalfi coast to witness the same type of destruction as below.

1.Gallipoli; 2.Amalfi Coast bridge.​

And I do confirm it, I've been graduated in the Army's Road & Railway Engineering Academia. What we use today, is poorly done than in the past, they had better cement and concrete blends and steel than today. Our engineering skills have degraded, except for computation in hardware and software developments, these are the areas we shine today.

Regarding the Africa map, I've spotted many areas describing: Mastiti Populi, Nitrioti Populi, Asiti Populi, Ezari Populi, Avgili Populi, Apetomiti Populi, Aniriti Populi Pto, Bassachiti Populi Pto, there is even a Menelau town.

I wonder who these people were, because I've never encountered these different tribes or populations before. The "Pto" ending in some of the towns I guess comes from Ptolemeu, a friend and a general in Alexander the Great army ruling over Alexandria and maybe regions close to it. Because he was blessed to rule those lands by Alexander after he conquered them, this is how the MSM narrative goes.

It's really interesting to know these people.

 

[Deleted member 37]

Regarding the Africa map, I've spotted many areas describing: Mastiti Populi, Nitrioti Populi, Asiti Populi, Ezari Populi, Avgili Populi, Apetomiti Populi, Aniriti Populi Pto, Bassachiti Populi Pto, there is even a Menelau town.

I wonder who these people were, because I've never encountered these different tribes or populations before. The "Pto" ending in some of the towns I guess come from Ptolemeu, the friend and a general in Alexander the Great army ruling over Alexandria and maybe regions close to it. Because he was blessed to rule those lands by Alexander after he conquered them, these is how the MSM narrative goes.

It's really interesting to know these people.

Most of these peoples' names (if not all) derive from Claudius Ptolemy's 'Geographia'.

I knew what 'pto' meant, but now I don't remember and I cannot come up with any word whatsoever. It's the abbreviation of some Italian word for sure, so it's not Ptolemy, since that name was already used in the main text as 'Tolemei'.

edit: There's also a Betlemes town East of Cairo.

a certain Rascia whose name is similar to Russia corresponding more or less with modern Serbia

It seems that Rascia was in fact the name of the territory which became Serbia (Rascia - Wikipedia).

 

[busy.baci]

Most of these peoples' names (if not all) derive from Claudius Ptolemy's 'Geographia'.

I knew what 'pto' meant, but now I don't remember and I cannot come up with any word whatsoever. It's the abbreviation of some Italian word for sure, so it's not Ptolemy, since that name was already used in the main text as 'Tolemei'.

edit: There's also a Betlemes town East of Cairo.

Now, this map of Africa is weird. The town of "Betlehem" you mention I think is being read either of as "Betsemes" or "Betfemes", this is the rule being applied to reading this map in Italian language. But I did spot so many other weird things, like the town on top of the map description quadrant, right side, the lake of "Laccio Palude", I wonder who the Lazzio football fans are cheering for. There are strange town names also like "Bianchi Camini", "Palema"=Palermo, "Augilla"=Aquila, "Mezzu Villa", "Migione"=Minchoni hahaha. There seem to be many towns named in south Italian dialect, this is weird.

I'll take a good look at Germany's map tomorrow. I'm sure I'll be surprised even there.

 

[Deleted member 37]

The town of "Betlehem" you mention I think is being read either of as "Betsemes" or "Betfemes", this is the rule being applied to reading this map in Italian language.

Oh yes you are right. So maybe it's the biblical Beit Shemesh (Beit Shemesh - Wikipedia)!

There are strange town names also like "Bianchi Camini", "Palema"=Palermo, "Augilla"=Aquila, "Mezzu Villa", "Migione"=Minchoni hahaha. There seem to be many towns named in south Italian dialect, this is weird.

hehe it seems all these places had some translation in the Italian language for the maps of the period, not only on this map.

 

[Deleted member 37]

Fourth map titled ‘La Francia’ by Stefano Bonsignori.

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France (Francia) once called transalpine Gaul (Gallia transalpina) was divided into Comata and Bracata. Comata was divided in Belgica, Celtica, also called Lugdunensis (Luddunese), and Aquitaine (Aqtania). Bracata was also called Narbonensis (Narbonese). It took the name Gaul from Celtus (Galate) son of Egyptian Hercules (Ercole Egizzio), or from the Gauls (Galli) first inhabitants of that land, so called by the Arameans (Aramei) and the Hebrews (Ebrei), because they ran into danger due to the waters of the flood. Parts of Belgica are France (Francia), Picardy (Pidcardia), Flanders (Fiandra), Brabant (Brabant), Holland (Olanda), Lorraine (Loreno) and Champagne (Campaigne). Parts of Celtica are Normandy (Normadia), Brittany (Bretagna), Burgundy (Borgoga), Nivernais (Niuernois), Bourbonnais (Borbonois), Poitou (Pictou), Limousin (Limosin), Saintonge (Saiton), Auvergne (Auuerge), Perigord (Perigort), Angoumois* (Lecaux), Berry (Berri) and Gévaudan (Geuondai**). Parts of Aquitaine are Guyenne (Guiene) and Gascony (Gascogne). Parts of the Narbonensis are Savoy (Sauoia), Dauphiné (Dalfinato), Provence (Provenza) and Languedoc (Lingadoch). In its entirety it was called France after the Franks (Francoi), who under Pharamond (Feramondo) came here to live.

* Not sure this is the correct translation for this region. The Lecaux region appears where Angoumois is located in all the maps of France I've seen. Don't know why it is called Lecaux here.

** Should be the ancient region of Gévaudan (Gévaudan - Wikipedia).



It would be natural to expect more historical informations about France and instead we have a description of the various regions and nothing more. The only exception is quite interesting though and must be added to the already long series of definitions of the word ‘gaul’. Here Bonsignori gives us two options, showing how the problem was already felt back then.

On one hand the Gauls descended from their eponymous ancestor Celtus (or Galate - Celtus - Wikipedia), who was said to be the son of the Egyptian Heracles. There’s no insight about who this Hercules from Egypt could really be. Today there’s no distinction between the various Herculeses, but it seems at the time they were considered separate individuals.

On the other hand, and way more interesting, possibly due to the fact that we don’t really know who this Hercules was supposed to be, is the Hebrew/Aramaic definition. The reason why these people, which supposedly lived in the Middle-East, had a definiton for the term 'Gaul' and the reason why the Gauls kept that name as their own is in itself a conundrum. Is it because the Gauls/Galatians invaded what is now modern Turkey in that not precisely established period in history that historians say it was for certain the third century before Christ? Even in that case it makes no sense according to official history.
Whatever the explanation we have to face this ‘new’ meaning of the word: ‘because they ran into danger due to the waters of the flood’ (pch haueano corso picolo dalle acque del diluuio). What does that mean? Is it possible to find some kind of word similar to ‘gaul’ in modern Hebrew that conveys a sense of danger? And what part had the Gauls in the Flood narrative?

If anybody knows something please tell me/us.