SH Archive Tartarian Language and Alphabet

[Archive]

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Username: UnusualBean
Date: 2019-02-14 19:51:06
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As per this thread, if Tartarian isn't literally just Manchu then it's gotta be an extremely close relative. I'm also now 100% convinced it could be written in Chinese. The pronunciations of those words seals the deal.

 

[Archive]

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Username: jd755
Date: 2019-02-14 20:51:07
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This site just popped up during a break from reading an old book. Manchu Studies Group

And this one Rise of the Manchus | Fe Doro - Manchu archery

Manchu was the name that a number of united Jurchen tribes took in the 17th century in present day Manchuria. Manchu being an identity rather than a race, the Manchu cultural group contained mostly Jurchen but also Koreans, Ming Chinese deserters and frontiersmen, Mongolians and others.

 

[space966]

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Username: space966
Date: 2019-02-15 01:58:41
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Language you are talking here is Old Slavonic буквица. It can be translated as "letters", "order of letters", or more precisely in literature-spirit meaning "poetry of letters". Couple times I heard talking in this language, it's sense, that you hear some ancient singing. Several years ago in Russia out of nowhere appeared Slavic Vedas. At first I was sceptical, because letters reminded Old Slavonic Church language. But it seems no, they are against Abrahamic religions, and are considered pagan or Vedic. One emphasis! - they refer to themselves not Russians, but Старославянский, means Old Slavonic. Letters are quite complicated, can have several meanings, or mean several sentences, also have numerical value. It's something like new Hebrew. Will try to find more info, will write more.

 

[KD Archive]

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Username: KorbenDallas
Date: 2019-02-15 04:33:34
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Not sure how one could read Slavonic upside down.

These boys have a much easier chance of being read upside down.

 

[Archive]

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Username: mythstifieD
Date: 2019-02-15 06:51:19
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The History of the Conquest of China by Tartars
Here's a Tartarian word meaning thrice Prince

Pelipaonan

 

[Archive]

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Username: UnusualBean
Date: 2019-02-15 20:11:54
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The History of the Conquest of China by Tartars
Here's a Tartarian word meaning thrice Prince

Pelipaonan

I like how the author called Chinese "the most difficult and troublesome language in the whole universe"

Anyway, the word is pelipaouan, not pelipaonan. The image to text algorithm just derped it for that one instance.

The word parts peli, pao, and uan are all said to mean "prince" in Tartarian, Korean, and Chinese respectively. The word itself is an actual person's name, not a vocabulary word. If we break it down into those three parts and look for their origins though, some interesting things come out...

Peli - May also be "peri", "pali" or "pari". This seems to be of Iranian origin, and wherever it comes up it refers to supernatural beings. Fairies, witches, angels, gods...
Pao - Written 包 or 포 and pronounced "poh", this one is strange too. It actually originally comes from the Manchu ᠪᠣᠣ (boo, pronounced like bohh), meaning "house". If anything, it should most likely refer to a slave or contract worker, not a prince...
Uan - Written 王 and pronounced "wang", this is a general word for a monarch. It's the only one that definitively can be said to mean "prince".

 

[Archive]

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Username: jd755
Date: 2019-02-15 20:58:29
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WOW https://twitter.com/manjurabumbi
WOW Dictionnaire tartare-mantchou françois composé d'après un dictionnaire ... : Joseph Marie Amyot : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

 

[Archive]

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Username: mythstifieD
Date: 2019-02-15 21:02:22
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WOW https://twitter.com/manjurabumbi
WOW Dictionnaire tartare-mantchou françois composé d'après un dictionnaire ... : Joseph Marie Amyot : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

BEAUTY! WOW! Kinda looks like Arabic/Sanskrit

 

[Archive]

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Username: jd755
Date: 2019-02-15 21:08:32
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WOW Dictionnaire Mongol-Russe-Fançais
and MORE The Tibetan and Himalayan Library

 

[Whitewave]

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Username: whitewave
Date: 2019-02-16 00:24:46
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As per this thread, if Tartarian isn't literally just Manchu then it's gotta be an extremely close relative. I'm also now 100% convinced it could be written in Chinese. The pronunciations of those words seals the deal.

This book written in 1908 has a chapter on the Tartars that identifies Manchurians as one of the tribes of Tartars.

 

[Archive]

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Username: mythstifieD
Date: 2019-02-16 17:09:29
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Asia is One Volume, with Thirty One Maps, Sanson's Tables, &c. as May be Seen in the Catalogue Thereof Annex'd to the Preface

Just found this rather lengthy summary of Tartaria and its people's from the 1600s

 

[Bald Eagle]

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Username: Bald Eagle
Date: 2019-02-17 00:21:47
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Check out what this guys says around the 3:30 mark:

"This writing once existed worldwide ...."

 

[JimDuyer]

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Username: Jim Duyer
Date: 2019-02-18 16:44:15
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May be at some point we will be able to locate the Tartarian alphabet, and examples of their writing. I do not mean the Tatar Language mentioned on wikipedia. The language I'm talking about does appear to be omitted from the narrative compliant history.

Initially, courtesy of @anotherlayer in this thread, it came to our attention that language of Tartaria was still one of the main languages as late as 1849.

• Source: The Washington Union: Washington, DC, Tuesday, February 13, 1849 - Page 3

Basically, what we learn from the below passage is that there were Opera songs written in Tartarian language. Being neighbored by such languages as Russian, German, English, French, and Italian suggests that Tartarian language was one of the major languages in the World at the time.

View attachment 16974

Also of interest a particular excerpt from this 1739 book titled:

View attachment 16977
Originally from here.

The language could be read upside down and backwards... how about that?

View attachment 16978

Obviously it would be useful to obtain some additional info, and may be locate this weird all-directional alphabet. The description sounds pretty interesting.

In my humble opinion, the language that was first used by the tribes that eventually formed into the people of Tartar, was the Tocharian languages, a branch of the Indo-European family, that was found in tablets on the Silk Road, and especially the area in Southern Russia of modern times. Wikiconfusia tells us : Agricultural communities first appeared in the oases of the northern Tarim circa 2000 BC. (The earliest Tarim mummies, which may not be connected to the Tocharians, date from c. 1800 BC.) Some scholars have linked these communities to the Afanasievo culture found earlier (c. 3500–2500 BC) in Siberia, north of the Tarim or Central Asian BMAC culture.
Thus we see a direct connection between these red-haired, white-skinned mummies of people that migrated into the Tarim basin in northern Tibet, and the rise of a great people in the area to the northwest of there. Perhaps they were escaping the genocide that was on-going?
Anyway, that's my take on it, from a linguistic standpoint, and by the way - don't believe the reports that their three written alphabets, the so-called Tocharian A,B, and C are undeciphered. Some very clever scholars have done that, and even produced a dictionary of sorts, although limited at this time. But to give them credit, even the Sumerian is only about 30% deciphered to date, and the Mayan about the same percentage, and we have many examples to work from in those languages.

 

[_harris]

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Username: 0harris0
Date: 2019-02-24 11:04:27
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The Tarter characters are of such a nature that, being overturned, they are also read, that is to say, that a Tartar introduces you to an open book in the ordinary sense, and if you read it, he who does not see the letters all the way back, will read faster than you, and will warn you when you hesitate.

so the french(?) guy, is reading a Tartarian book (presumably very slowly...) and the Tartarian guy mentioned, is sitting opposite and watching him read the book? a book he's probably read before, in his native language, faster than a foreigner... hardly surprising to me

I have to say the whole "reading upside down" seems too much like a red herring, especially to base it on only one small piece of text. I can read english upside down... it's pretty easy to say the least!

Are there any other mentions of upside-down reading/writing??

If not, I think that could probably be dropped as insignificant to the search. It could maybe even hinder finding the truth!

 

[Archive]

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Username: Born Curious
Date: 2019-02-25 02:14:57
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I believe that Finno-Ugric languages are later development of Tartarian, because of Turkic and Slavic (Sarmatian/Gothic) influence through centuries. Magyar (Hungarian) people would be a closest connection and descendants of Tartars in Europe, and here is another perspective on this topic...

By the bible and legends, Noah had three sons; Japheth, Ham and Shem.

1. Ham's descendants would be Cush, Mizraim, Phut and Canaan (Hamitic people, mostly Africa)
2. Children of Shem are Elam, Asshur, Arphaxad, Lud and Aram, in addition to daughters (Semitic people, middle East)
3. Japheth's son's would be Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal and Meshech (European and Asian people from lands above Himalayas)

Magogs would be Scythian (Tartarian) people based on conclusion and writings of many historians. Someone already opened this topic on SH forum Gog and Magog. This Map and story about three Indias might also be interesting in connection to Magogs.

Etymologically Magyar would be from Mag(og) and yar = friend (turkic). Term Armagedon descibes event connected to Magog, but meaning can be translated in many ways. Armagedon is usually a final battle or Ragnarok from Norse mythology

 

[Archive]

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Username: sineNrise
Date: 2019-03-18 01:06:13
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Came upon this.
Translation of the T'sing wan k'e mung, a Chinese grammar of the Manchu Tartar language; with introductory notes on Manchu literature : Ch'êng Ming-yüan, ed : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Translation of the T'sing wan k'e mung, a Chinese grammar of the Manchu Tartar language; with introductory notes on Manchu literature by Ch'êng Ming-yüan, ed; Wylie, A. (Alexander), 1815-1887, tr

 

[Archive]

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Username: jd755
Date: 2019-03-18 12:10:48
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Armageddon is a gathering of the people of god, is another.

 

[Mabzynn]

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Username: Mabzynn
Date: 2019-03-19 21:55:52
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Some work by Pierre van der Aa

La galerie agréable du monde, où l'on voit en un grand nombre de cartes très exactes et de belles tailles douces les principaux empires, roïaumes, républiques, provinces, villes, bourgs et forteresses ...les îles, côtes rivières, ports de mer...les antiquitez, les abbayes, églises, académies...comme aussi les maisons de campagne, les habillemens et moeurs des peuples...dans les quatre parties de l'univers. Divisée en LXVI tomes, les estampes aiant été dessinées sur les lieux et gravées exactement par les célèbres Luyken, Mulder, Goerée, Baptist, Stopendaal et par d'autres maîtres renomez.... Tome troisième d'Arabie, Terre Sainte, Natolie & Assyrie / Pieter vander AA | Gallica

 

[Whitewave]

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Username: whitewave
Date: 2019-03-20 01:15:11
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Can you translate the text for us?

Lot of similarities to the Cherokee language.

Of course, Sequoyah, who ironically enough, could not read any language had been around literate people and had seen Latin, Greek, Cyrillic, English, French, Spanish, and just made up his own language from symbols/letters he'd seen. In the Cherokee language those symbols/letters (syllables, actually) aren't pronounced at all like they are in Latin, Greek, etc.

Looks like the first one is Samaritans alphabet, then Saloman's alphabet then? Next picture is Abraham's alphabet, then Enoch's alphabet, then what looks like Hebrew. Next picture is Syrish (Syrian?), then Phoenician ? Next picture has a guy holding a book that reads in plain English "The Book of Alpha and Omega" even though the symbols depicted are not at all English and doesn't look particularly Greek either as suggested by the words 'alpha and omega'. The next picture doesn't say what the top one is but the bottom one is Chinese.

I'm not being deliberately patronizing by listing what you just posted. I just figured I couldn't be the only one who couldn't read that small print without enlarging the page.

 

[Archive]

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Username: Ladybug
Date: 2019-03-20 05:50:45
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May be at some point we will be able to locate the Tartarian alphabet, and examples of their writing. I do not mean the Tatar Language mentioned on wikipedia. The language I'm talking about does appear to be omitted from the narrative compliant history.

Initially, courtesy of @anotherlayer in this thread, it came to our attention that language of Tartaria was still one of the main languages as late as 1849.

• Source: The Washington Union: Washington, DC, Tuesday, February 13, 1849 - Page 3

Basically, what we learn from the below passage is that there were Opera songs written in Tartarian language. Being neighbored by such languages as Russian, German, English, French, and Italian suggests that Tartarian language was one of the major languages in the World at the time.

View attachment 16974

Also of interest a particular excerpt from this 1739 book titled:

View attachment 16977
Originally from here.

The language could be read upside down and backwards... how about that?

View attachment 16978

Obviously it would be useful to obtain some additional info, and may be locate this weird all-directional alphabet. The description sounds pretty interesting.

I imagine the language to have an almost musical quality as beautiful as I am learning the people were by the construct and design of their buildings and culture etc.. Call me a romantic but I do..