They say that this building was built recently, the building hides some mystery or not?

Near the Kremlin, in addition to the Palace of Farmers, there is a circus, the Central Stadium and the Pyramid Culture and Entertainment Complex.

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The black soil in the foreground of both pictures is evidence the site has been cleared of all previous construction.
The presence of fresh chernozem does not mean anything. In Russia, they put it everywhere. Next to my apartment building there are constant excavations every year (replacing pipes mostly). And there are thousands of such houses all over the country. Under the black earth and layer of soil, literally at a depth of 2-3 meters there is a sewer. By your logic, I have to assume that there is nothing under the fresh chernozem (which, among other things, every time they fill up the sewer system).

The only evidence of the presence of chernozem is that there is chernozem, of which there is plenty in Russia.

Yes, you are right. We mere mortals cannot provide any evidence. They won't let us in. If we were allowed in, this site (and many others) would be unnecessary.

But what do I see, from my subjective point of view? I see the Kremlin area in Kazan. Around this Kremlin there are a number of buildings that always attract my attention (circus, pyramid theater, stadium). Next to such an object a building in the "ancient" style is built. Already there are suspicions. But then I go to the website of the architect and what do I see? And I see that the same architect was engaged in a suspicious (one of the most suspicious, in my opinion) building in my city, which interests me for a long time. And on the facade of this building (as if in banter) hangs a phrase that can be made the motto of this and any other similar site.

And as the cherry on the cake. Building in Ekaterinburg, is located 400 meters from the place of "murder" (the proof, though was not after the death) of Nicholas 2. Combine this with numerous legends of dungeons in those areas. I got these legends directly from my relatives (mother, grandfather, great-grandmother). All as one said that there were underground passages. But over time, most of the area where my relatives lived was buried underground. So was the Melkówka River. Now there's a movie theater and a park there.

Given all this, the Palace of Farmers in Kazan seems suspicious, to say the least. The presence of photos at the stage of the bare excavation with the appropriate depth would remove my doubts, but there are no such photos.

User @HELLBOY gave the example of two buildings. Hypothetically linked them to the Manchurian supposed "ancient" old-new cities. Given that the building in Kazan interested me before, I decided to give the @HELLBOY user as much information about that area as possible. And given that this building led me to a building with similar connotations in Yekaterinburg, I think there is definitely reason for doubt.

Still found (with the help of Yandex) photos of construction (albeit not from the stage of the pit). That's something.

But there are still no photos of the zero stage of construction.

And I can tell you exactly. The fact that you have to search with such difficulty for pictures of construction in a city with a million people, in one of the most visited places in Russia (the Kazan Kremlin; except for Moscow and St. Petersburg), is already suspicious.

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More speculation.
Were I a native Russian speaker I would do my utmost to contact someone in Kazakstan who was either in the newspaper industry or the construction industry or even a local historian and find things out us English only speakers cannot do.
I do happen to know a chap who is in Kazakstan on 3 months on 3 months off rotation but he is on a gas field and is escorted to and from the field as the oil company running the gas field do not want the locals finding out just how much money he gets paid.

Still until you pull some evidence from somewhere which shows anything to the contrary the available evidence is what it is. The building is a recent construction built using modern building methods which rather knocks the suggestion that "Taratarian" architecture cannot be built today into a cocked hat.
 
More speculation.
Were I a native Russian speaker I would do my utmost to contact someone in Kazakstan who was either in the newspaper industry or the construction industry or even a local historian and find things out us English only speakers cannot do.
I do happen to know a chap who is in Kazakstan on 3 months on 3 months off rotation but he is on a gas field and is escorted to and from the field as the oil company running the gas field do not want the locals finding out just how much money he gets paid.

Still until you pull some evidence from somewhere which shows anything to the contrary the available evidence is what it is. The building is a recent construction built using modern building methods which rather knocks the suggestion that "Taratarian" architecture cannot be built today into a cocked hat.
Wait. I didn't even say a word about the building itself being old. That the building (its upper level) is recent is obvious.

The only question is this. What's underground. And here we enter the realm of hypotheses. But, in my opinion, it is obvious that there is something under the building. In Russia, there are plenty of such cases (buildings or their lower parts underground, not just the basement).

Remains of building foundations underground in Russia (ru, photo). Given that digging deeper than 5 meters in Russia without a license is prohibited - lucky that we see at least something at such shallow depths. What's deeper than that? They won't tell us.

Chernozem on Vainera (Yekaterinburg) at a depth of 3 meters. The buildings that have been blown in?
 
But, in my opinion, it is obvious that there is something under the building. In Russia, there are plenty of such cases (buildings or their lower parts underground, not just the basement).
At the risk of another post being deleted. What have you done or going to do to validate that opinion?

You won't know this as you are new here but honestly I went through this with the creator of SH version 1 Korben Dallas. He too was convinced buildings in Russia had been partly dug out, they are never 'restored' to the original ground level for some reason no-one has ever explained, and I showed him the evidence he presented did not back up his claims. Here's some links. Posting them here as they are relevant to this buried buildings theory.
SH Archive - Mud flood, dirt rain, and the story of the buried buildings
SH Archive Replies - Mud flood, dirt rain, and the story of the buried buildings

Edit to correct typo
 
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This really is not hard to do. I spent less than ten minutes with duckduckgo, google translate, the Tatar language & the Russian language and found this.

Let's assume for a moment that it was indeed built in modern times.
Modern-day machinery and tech was necessary to build ONE building in TWO years. Yet we are told that the buildings shown in the world fairs were built in a few months...
 
What have you done or going to do to validate that opinion?
It is naivety that speaks in you, which is expressed in the fact that someone will provide you with information. I get the feeling that you are unfamiliar with such concepts as “non-disclosure agreement” and “state secret”. Everything that we are interested in in Russia (I am sure that the situation is similar all over the world, since such measures are aimed primarily at the safety of facilities, and they are approximately the same everywhere) falls under this concept. (Underground works at a depth of 5 meters; Works in the Metropolitan; Real projects of buildings; etc.). As a result, not a single official will tell about anything, the necessary plans will not be posted. So what kind of evidence can we talk about? The only thing that can convince me is a photo report from a bare pit, the stage of strengthening the soil and driving piles. In the vast majority of cases, when it comes to building within the historic centers of cities, this is not the case.

We (in Russia), in general, have little to find. Therefore, it remains to put forward hypotheses (based on inconsistencies) and connect them. The more such inconsistencies, the better. This is how I see the approach to recovering STOLEN history. I get the impression that you want the thief (since the story is stolen, then there must be a thief) to bring you proof of his guilt. This will not happen.

My opinion is not the ultimate truth. This is just my opinion. But it arose not just from watching videos on YouTube and reading a couple of dozen articles or books.

If there is a reason to delete it, then delete it.

You don't need to warn me. I won't die if a couple of my posts get deleted. Even my attitude to the site will not change. I respect the opinion of the moderators, no matter how it applies to me. I didn't offend a single person. All posts are related (in one way or another) to the topic of the thread.

This message was specially folded under the spoiler so that not everyone read it.
 
Let's assume for a moment that it was indeed built in modern times.
Modern-day machinery and tech was necessary to build ONE building in TWO years. Yet we are told that the buildings shown in the world fairs were built in a few months...
Knock yourself out. SH Archive Replies - 1904: the destruction of the Louisiana Purchase Exposition in Saint Louis 10 pages long.
It is naivety that speaks in you, which is expressed in the fact that someone will provide you with information. I get the feeling that you are unfamiliar with such concepts as “non-disclosure agreement” and “state secret”. Everything that we are interested in in Russia (I am sure that the situation is similar all over the world, since such measures are aimed primarily at the safety of facilities, and they are approximately the same everywhere) falls under this concept. (Underground works at a depth of 5 meters; Works in the Metropolitan; Real projects of buildings; etc.). As a result, not a single official will tell about anything, the necessary plans will not be posted. So what kind of evidence can we talk about? The only thing that can convince me is a photo report from a bare pit, the stage of strengthening the soil and driving piles. In the vast majority of cases, when it comes to building within the historic centers of cities, this is not the case.

We (in Russia), in general, have little to find. Therefore, it remains to put forward hypotheses (based on inconsistencies) and connect them. The more such inconsistencies, the better. This is how I see the approach to recovering STOLEN history. I get the impression that you want the thief (since the story is stolen, then there must be a thief) to bring you proof of his guilt. This will not happen.

My opinion is not the ultimate truth. This is just my opinion. But it arose not just from watching videos on YouTube and reading a couple of dozen articles or books.

If there is a reason to delete it, then delete it.

You don't need to warn me. I won't die if a couple of my posts get deleted. Even my attitude to the site will not change. I respect the opinion of the moderators, no matter how it applies to me. I didn't offend a single person. All posts are related (in one way or another) to the topic of the thread.

This message was specially folded under the spoiler so that not everyone read it.
All I asked was what you are doing to prove or disprove your opinion. From memory there is a similar state permit required when digging in Holland, more to do with flooding most likely than buried buildings but still.
If the only thing that convince you there is nothing there except a bare pit as you put it then the likelihood of you finding such a thing given the restrictions you outline is remote. Perhaps you would be better doing a similar search effort in a country where the state is not as onerous. At least then you would get a clearer idea if your opinion is valid or not. Best of luck whatever you decide.

Edit to add
As you can see in the linked threads forum member cemen is a Russian and he managed to find a lot of things out.
 
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Knock yourself out. SH Archive Replies - 1904: the destruction of the Louisiana Purchase Exposition in Saint Louis 10 pages long.

All I asked was what you are doing to prove or disprove your opinion. From memory there is a similar state permit required when digging in Holland, more to do with flooding most likely than buried buildings but still.
If the only thing that convince you there is nothing there except a bare pit as you put it then the likelihood of you finding such a thing given the restrictions you outline is remote. Perhaps you would be better doing a similar search effort in a country where the state is not as onerous. At least then you would get a clearer idea if your opinion is valid or not. Best of luck whatever you dec
Edit to add
As you can see in the linked threads forum member cemen is a Russian and he managed to find a lot of things out.
Gostiny Dvor in Kasimov has an underground floor (at least). To shoot the video, the author of the video had to go against the security of the complex, who threatened the police.

Video (19:19), Article on tart-aria.info (ru)

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The Luzhetsky Monastery in Mozhaisk has not been fully excavated. Excavated 1 meter after the collapse of the USSR. They didn't dig further. At the same time, all windows, at the excavated level, are sealed with modern bricks on cement mortar.

Video (20:01)

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What should the posts of the user cemen convince me of?

All the examples (quite well-known in the Russian environment of alternatives) that he cited confirm the version that something interesting is waiting for us underground, rather than refute it.

What difference does it make what country a person is from? Let's say you are an American. If I tell you that another American believes something, will that be an argument for you in favor of this statement?
UPD
This is the height at which most of the buildings are buried, at least in the Urals. But most likely, all over the world, where there are traces of "antique" architecture.

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This thread seems to have slid from the op so I won't contribute any further to that slide. Apologies to hellboy if its already gone too far.

If there is something pre-existing in the ground under that building as iseidon opines then the chances of it ever coming to light are extremely remote for the reasons iseidon has provided. The building shown in the op was built in modern times as the evidence of the photograph, solitary as it is, attests.
Until such times as evidence of a pre existing foundation is presented then no there is nothing mysterious about the building we see today as far as I can tell.
 
Only two years to complete that monstrosity of a building?? How?? I've seen smaller, cheaper construction projects that took longer than that, and they weren't fancy, just the usual modern ugly boxes. That's surely an incredible feat of engineering, yet we get a photo of some scaffolding and no ground-to-roof construction photos at all. I'm not buying that this thing was made in modern times. Reconstructed, certainly, but not put together from the foundation up.

I love the tree under the archway. It surely wasn't an accident that it represents the World Tree, Yggdrasil, whatever you want to call it, beneath the dome of the sky. Proof enough to me that there is more going on with this building than some bored billionaires wanting a pretty building to house the agriculture department.
 
Interesting. I would also like to see the construction photos. Here's another building attributed to him:

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from this link:

https://www.skyscrapercity.com/threads/new-classical-architects-list-please-add-more.1715624/page-40
In fact that's what I was looking for, if anyone here on the forum, perhaps from among the Russian members would have access to construction photos.
And what is the problem with it being the final part?
Are we so immature we need photos from breaking ground all the way through to topping out before we accept it is not ancient, found or something?
Who used Yandex?
The claim was construction photos do not exist which led to all the speculation above.
Well here is a photo that disproves the claim.
I'm sure native Russian speakers would be able to find more if they are so minded.
Right, I was hoping some member in Russia would provide some pictures to give me an idea of how the construction went, I was going through Tartaristan with google and it has thousands of buildings of this style, I was thinking about the fact how come they don't support this kind of architects for global architecture, it is very beautiful.
It would be even more impressive to find some map or engraving of the same place or photo of about 10 years ago.
I'm not familiar with the geography of the place but if one manages to find a photo without this construction, wouldn't it be considered proof of its non-existence in the recent past?
Yes, actually my search about this Palace of Agriculture is, what was there before the building on the site, hopefully maybe some old map of the city or some engraving, and some photos of the construction but I knew it was an easier task maybe for some Russian. That's why I decided to ask if anyone had any data on the site.
 
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The image immediately underneath the construction photo shows more of the area that is under development after being cleared.
The idea that massive foundations existed under whatever buildings were on the ground and were miraculously uncovered then deemed safe enough to build on remains an idea nothing more. There is zero evidence be it documentary, pictorial or anecdotal for the pre existence of a building of this precise shape.
This image shows the distance between this church and the Palace of Agriculture, which seems to be in a deeper place.
Google Maps

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  • Someone with an old map of the city, as this aerial shot reminds me of the St. Petersburg swamp.
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Could just as easily be a photo of renovations / maintenance or simply cleaning. This is all scaffolding.
No it is a construction site. I have been on on construction sites bigger and smaller than the Qazak one so I know what to look for.
The biggest clue is the area butting up to the building within the white fence. Its appearance is repeated ad nauseum on building sites large and small all over the world. Not quite littered but untidy and uses to store materials as they arrive and move them onto site which results in a generally muddy environment.
Were it renovation this would not be there. The fact it continues across to the two black roof buildings is evidence that they are newly built.

This image shows the distance between this church and the Palace of Agriculture, which seems to be in a deeper place.
Do you mean the church is built on a hill and the agriculture building isn't?
How about a WW2 German aerial photograph dated 1942, that do?
Kazan, a German air recce picture taken in 1942
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Or how about one dated 1943?
Kazan, a German air recce picture taken in 1943
Kazan_1943.jpg

Edit to add
Continuing asking search engines questions brought this site to my attention Kazan city modern architecture photos

Specifically this image

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It is the same building in the top right corner of the construction photograph. The image is undated but the white construction site fence is the same. However as the land inside the fence has been recently graded there is no green growth in view. Based on my experience and the evidence within this photograph and the construction photograph it looks like the site was levelled prior to construction beginning. Clearly a hill or bank has been removed to create a large level area to build the agriculture building on.

Edit two
Just to round it out these two images are evidence that all I have mentioned above in regards this building is over the target so too speak
From here Kazan Palace of Farmers - the pearl of Tatarstan - Environment 2022

The dilapidated building(s) are still there when this photo was taken.
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This one shows a part of a hill was removed.
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Yet another edit,
I found the photographer who took the images above images Flight over Kazan (2012) — Photos — Encyclopedia of safety

They are dated 2012
In this post I collected the photos taken during a flight over Kazan on a sunny summer afternoon. Undoubtedly, this city — in his own amazing and interesting. It combines the beautiful historical buildings and modern skyscrapers. Kazan continues to prepare for the Universiade, which will take place in 2013 — is in full swing throughout the construction and reconstruction.

Here is a screenshot of the last photo above enlarged in the browser and in it you can clearly see the grass behind and to the right of the building has recently been laid so the landscaping which is always the final stages of construction was ongoing or just about complete in 2012. You alsio get a clear view of the dilapidated buildings behind the agriculture building high on the hill.
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For there to have been existing foundations for this building if not for the three alongside it then they would have been buried under a hill at least partially as I have no idea how much hill was removed to accommodate this building and possibly the three alongside it.

What this thread has shown me is we alive today and our technologies and materials are easily capable of building any built structure in any built style whatsoever and architecture alone is no guide to when it was actually constructed. In the flesh these buildings may not pass the ancient test in terms of appearance and materials used but only to people who are looking into such things or have knowledge of such things for most people "it looks old therefore it is old" is good enough.
All this so called Tartarian architecture is more than likely a mix of buildings constructed at different times in the same or very similar styles. following fashion is one way of putting it.

Apologies again for wandering a bit Hellboy this just seems the right place to record my observation.
 
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No it is a construction site. I have been on on construction sites bigger and smaller than the Qazak one so I know what to look for.
The biggest clue is the area butting up to the building within the white fence. Its appearance is repeated ad nauseum on building sites large and small all over the world. Not quite littered but untidy and uses to store materials as they arrive and move them onto site which results in a generally muddy environment.
Were it renovation this would not be there. The fact it continues across to the two black roof buildings is evidence that they are newly built.

This image shows the distance between this church and the Palace of Agriculture, which seems to be in a deeper place.
Do you mean the church is built on a hill and the agriculture building isn't?
How about a WW2 German aerial photograph dated 1942, that do?
Kazan, a German air recce picture taken in 1942


Or how about one dated 1943?
Kazan, a German air recce picture taken in 1943

Edit to add
Continuing asking search engines questions brought this site to my attention Kazan city modern architecture photos

Specifically this image


It is the same building in the top right corner of the construction photograph. The image is undated but the white construction site fence is the same. However as the land inside the fence has been recently graded there is no green growth in view. Based on my experience and the evidence within this photograph and the construction photograph it looks like the site was levelled prior to construction beginning. Clearly a hill or bank has been removed to create a large level area to build the agriculture building on.

Edit two
Just to round it out these two images are evidence that all I have mentioned above in regards this building is over the target so too speak
From here Kazan Palace of Farmers - the pearl of Tatarstan - Environment 2022

The dilapidated building(s) are still there when this photo was taken.

This one shows a part of a hill was removed.
Yet another edit,
I found the photographer who took the images above images Flight over Kazan (2012) — Photos — Encyclopedia of safety

They are dated 2012


Here is a screenshot of the last photo above enlarged in the browser and in it you can clearly see the grass behind and to the right of the building has recently been laid so the landscaping which is always the final stages of construction was ongoing or just about complete in 2012. You alsio get a clear view of the dilapidated buildings behind the agriculture building high on the hill.
For there to have been existing foundations for this building if not for the three alongside it then they would have been buried under a hill at least partially as I have no idea how much hill was removed to accommodate this building and possibly the three alongside it.

What this thread has shown me is we alive today and our technologies and materials are easily capable of building any built structure in any built style whatsoever and architecture alone is no guide to when it was actually constructed. In the flesh these buildings may not pass the ancient test in terms of appearance and materials used but only to people who are looking into such things or have knowledge of such things for most people "it looks old therefore it is old" is good enough.
All this so called Tartarian architecture is more than likely a mix of buildings constructed at different times in the same or very similar styles. following fashion is one way of putting it.

Apologies again for wandering a bit Hellboy these just seems the right place to record my observation.
Apologies again for rambling a bit Hellboy these just seems like the right place to record my observation.

  • Seems to me you do a good job and I appreciate it.

I was really confused with the Kazan 1942, 1943 shots. I wanted to contrast with the actual map and based on the Kasanka river which is even apparent in the two photos, the area shows huge changes since that date.

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The photo shows the curve of the Volga to the left as I marked above, it is strange when you compare and see that now the Kazanka river is further inland away from the Volga.

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The land mass in the center of the Volga moved to the right?

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As I said, I already took a look in the city and saw thousands of buildings similar to the Agriculture Palace in the city, the pictures you posted show a land without buildings, so many of these buildings must be after that 1942-3.
 
Seems to me you do a good job and I appreciate it.
Thank you. That means a great deal.

The difference is the German photographs are taken from a low flying aircraft on film. The google images are as far I as can find out are digital renditions of images taken from higher flying aircraft. The evidence for the existence of a satellite guidance and stabilisation system that allows a machine said to travel at thousands of miles per hour over land and sea and allow a camera to produce high quality still images is simply not there.

That there has been ground reshaping since 1942/3 is beyond doubt and it seems likely the banks of the river would be reshaped as would any islands in the rivers themselves. We cannot stop ourselves fiddling with such things it seems. As with many places on river banks or lake sides the easiest way to get more flat land is to infill indentations in the bank and often push this infilling out a fair way from the original land/river boundary. Its popular the world over and as Kazan was under Soviet control for a long long time there would be no shortage of labour and machinery to carry out vast changes more or less hidden from the outside world though no doubt United States spy planes were busy taking photographs that we do not have access too.
They could also build just about anything and we would know nothing of it until the Soviet era collapsed.

My friend in the gas field says there are two Kazakhstans. One where the city people live that is underpinned by mafia and the European west and the rest of the country where they are more or less left to their own devices and are piss poor financially but are the much more friendly and generous people.
Ties in does it not with the creation of the Tartars as described in this thread where the author opines then provides evidence of Germans creating Russian history. Usurpers from abroad inventing a history is a repeating event across the entirety of stolen history subjects.
 
I was really confused with the Kazan 1942, 1943 shots. I wanted to contrast with the actual map and based on the Kasanka river which is even apparent in the two photos, the area shows huge changes since that date.

The photo shows the curve of the Volga to the left as I marked above, it is strange when you compare and see that now the Kazanka river is further inland away from the Volga.

The land mass in the center of the Volga moved to the right?

I told you earlier.

«The Palace of Farmers is next to the Kazan Kremlin (there is a theory that the Kremlin is a relative newel, as part of Kazan on such a theory washed away), so the place is 100% not the most common.»

As you can see, the theory did not arise from scratch.

The flooding of part of the city (ru) is associated (according to the generally accepted version) with the creation of the Kuibyshev reservoir.

During the construction of which a number of cities and many villages were flooded.

Before that, there is still information about a strong new flood in 1926 (ru).
 
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