The True History of the American Civil War (War of Rebellion)

[Deleted member 37]

This painting depicts the 'Caste' system that was prevalent in South America when it was under Spanish rule. It's possible that a similar system existed in North America, therefore the word 'Yankee' could have been part of the terminology used for a specific racial mix, like Dutch/Cherokee for example. Although you would expect to hear similar terms that have filtered down describing other racial mixes I suppose, but I can't think of any - maybe our US members know of some?

View attachment 9009​

The Noteentiendos (Don'tunderstandyous) are definitely the funniest

 

[Alexandra]

I liked the article overall, but I don't like the use of the terminology "white supremacy" for facts happened in the 19th century.

According to my source (not an American one) Lincoln was the one who claimed that white race was superior:

"There must remain a position of superiority and inferiority," Lincoln also swore, "and like no other man I am in favor of the superiority being assigned to the white race."

Source:
Afschaffing slavernij in Amerika

I've noticed that English language sources about this subject avoiding these words. They prefer "unequality".

Words are very powerful to re-write history.

This painting depicts the 'Caste' system that was prevalent in South America when it was under Spanish rule. It's possible that a similar system existed in North America, therefore the word 'Yankee' could have been part of the terminology used for a specific racial mix, like Dutch/Cherokee for example.

To my surprise I found this:

"The population of the colony of Rensselaerswyck in its early days consisted of three classes: freemen on top, who emigrated from Holland at their own expense; farmers next; and farm servants sent by the patroon at the bottom of the caste system."

As far as I know there is no caste systeem in Holland so I'm a bit surprised that a Dutch guy implemented it there.
There is no mention of this in the Dutch version.
Also "free men" and sent servants are new to me.

Maybe of brings a new light to what was meant with "slavery" at all in the Americans.
Manor of Rensselaerswyck - Wikipedia

 

[Deleted member 1432]

"There must remain a position of superiority and inferiority," Lincoln also swore, "and like no other man I am in favor of the superiority being assigned to the white race."

That's very interesting, but puzzling at the same time. Superficially at least the Civil War was fought by the North against the South to abolish that kind of white supremacy in the form of slavery. Very odd.

As far as I know there is no caste systeem in Holland so I'm a bit surprised that a Dutch guy implemented it there.

Similarly there was no caste system in Spain, but the Spanish colonisers also implemented one in America. Makes you wonder who they really were...

 

[Deleted member 37]

According to my source (not an American one) Lincoln was the one who claimed that white race was superior:

"There must remain a position of superiority and inferiority," Lincoln also swore, "and like no other man I am in favor of the superiority being assigned to the white race."

Source:
Afschaffing slavernij in Amerika

I've noticed that English language sources about this subject avoiding these words. They prefer "unequality".

Words are very powerful to re-write history.

I am sure he spoke about race and the advance of "white" civilization when compared to "black" civilization, even in harsh tones. But focusing on few lines to explain an entire war and doing it in this moment in time with the rethoric "white vs black" is nontheless a sign of a political bias transposed into history. What if Lincoln also said something entirely different but it's not used because it goes against modern narrative?

Similarly there was no caste system in Spain, but the Spanish colonisers also implemented one in America. Makes you wonder who they really were...

I think the Black Legend (Black legend - Wikipedia) has something to do with those events. I personally don't believe in the mass killing of Latins by the Spanish through a flu...

 

[Deleted member 1432]

I think the Black Legend (Black legend - Wikipedia) has something to do with those events. I personally don't believe in the mass killing of Latins by the Spanish through a flu...

I agree, in fact the Legenda Negra against Spain is still going on today and also includes the Franco period.

What's interesting is the Caste War of the Yucatan which was simultaneous with the American Civil War running from 1847 to 1901:

"Background to the War

"In Spanish colonial times, Yucatán (like most of New Spain) was under a legal caste system, with officials born in Spain at the top, the Creoles of Spanish descent in the next level, followed by the Mestizo population, then the native "Hidalgos", descendants of the Pre-Columbian nobility who had collaborated with the Spanish conquest of Yucatán, and at the bottom were the mass of native Indios.

With independence there was much rhetoric of a new equality before the law, but little actually changed other than the Creoles taking over the role of the Spaniards at the top of the political pyramid." (Article)

 

[Deleted member 37]

I agree, in fact the Legenda Negra against Spain is still going on today and also includes the Franco period.

What's interesting is the Caste War of the Yucatan which was simultaneous with the American Civil War running from 1847 to 1901:

"Background to the War

"In Spanish colonial times, Yucatán (like most of New Spain) was under a legal caste system, with officials born in Spain at the top, the Creoles of Spanish descent in the next level, followed by the Mestizo population, then the native "Hidalgos", descendants of the Pre-Columbian nobility who had collaborated with the Spanish conquest of Yucatán, and at the bottom were the mass of native Indios.

With independence there was much rhetoric of a new equality before the law, but little actually changed other than the Creoles taking over the role of the Spaniards at the top of the political pyramid." (Article)

That explains it all in few lines, really

 

[denverguy2]

Very interesting post. I don't claim to know the absolute truth, but I tend to trust the EIR's (Executive Intelligence Review) take on things more than most, especially back in their hey-day in the 70s and 80s., publishing their notorious Dope, Inc. book (attached) which blew the lid off the international drug trade and the histories, families and agencies behind it. They explain that the secession of the South was a plot to subvert and split up the US by using the British and oligarchy-backed South. Chapter 2 goes into the history of all of this. Here is a quote:

"I tend to trust the EIR's (Executive Intelligence Review) take on things more than most".

Hello, I am new to this website and this is my first post. I used to lurk on the old stolenhistory.org site, and I find this all very interesting. I would like to say that in my humble opinion (which doesn't count for anything, make up your own mind) that the Executive Intelligence Review is not a trustworthy source. It is one of the publications promoting the views of Lyndon LaRouche, who passed away in 2019 at the age of 96. LaRouche was a genius who had very strong opinions on everything; for example, he really hates the British. I think it is fair to call the LaRouche Movement a political cult. They certainly produce some interesting articles and publications, which are worth reading, but I wouldn't cite it as a primary source, and I wouldn't take it as "the truth". For example, on the LaRouche PAC's homepage, there is an article entitled: "Why the British Launched the Coup Against Trump". I'm not trying to derail this thread, I just think that if you quote a LaRouche publication that you should acknowledge it. Webster Tarpley, a former LaRouche associate, also has some very interesting views.

 

[torgo]

"I tend to trust the EIR's (Executive Intelligence Review) take on things more than most".

Hello, I am new to this website and this is my first post. I used to lurk on the old stolenhistory.org site, and I find this all very interesting. I would like to say that in my humble opinion (which doesn't count for anything, make up your own mind) that the Executive Intelligence Review is not a trustworthy source. It is one of the publications promoting the views of Lyndon LaRouche, who passed away in 2019 at the age of 96. LaRouche was a genius who had very strong opinions on everything; for example, he really hates the British. I think it is fair to call the LaRouche Movement a political cult. They certainly produce some interesting articles and publications, which are worth reading, but I wouldn't cite it as a primary source, and I wouldn't take it as "the truth". For example, on the LaRouche PAC's homepage, there is an article entitled: "Why the British Launched the Coup Against Trump". I'm not trying to derail this thread, I just think that if you quote a LaRouche publication that you should acknowledge it. Webster Tarpley, a former LaRouche associate, also has some very interesting views.

Yes, the EIR is indeed a LaRouche publication and I understand your concern with it. I had a skeptical view of him back in the day, before I did my own research on them and their history. The LaRouche PAC today is not the same as it was decades ago, as a lot has happened since. LaRouche and his Labor Party were attacked and smeared in the press ("fascist", "cult", etc.) He was railroaded and thrown in jail under false charges and relentlessly slandered in the 80s in order to prevent him from gaining political office. It was one of the most effective smear campaigns in US history. Since all of the drama, the organization has undergone several revisions and was effectively neutered and prevented from doing the kinds of independent investigative reports they did in the 70s and 80s with their own intelligence network. This research from that era I've found to be excellent and unique, in my opinion and I am open to any refutations of it, but I have not seen any so far. They really did a good job of exposing the people and organizations behind much of what has happened in the world, and the book Dope, Inc. was a case in point. So it was essentially another organization entirely back then from what it has been in the last couple decades, where I feel it has been compromised and untrustworthy. Yes, LaRouche blamed the British constantly as the source of our ills, which I think in many ways was accurate but in other ways overly simplistic. I also did not agree with all of his opinions. But they did publish many articles explaining the hidden networks in detail, giving the impression that it wasn't as simple as just "the British" behind everything, for example, their articles on much of the power coming from Switzerland.

Here is a documentary on the story of what happened with LaRouche and his organization.

 

[Onijunbei]

Before I get into watching these videos and reading these articles fully. I'll have to ask was the South operating as a nation and the North conquered it or at least possibly the American states were supposed to operate as independently as possible, but we are told that America used to be a single nation.

the "South" didnt have the "right" to break away from the Union. The Union was set up by England for England. All the estates (states) were given by England, and their consolidation was for the behest of England. All the incidents that led to the war may have well been planned or staged...but the Land and the organization set up on the Land, was always at the behest of England, on her behalf.

 

[Alexandra]

That's very interesting, but puzzling at the same time. Superficially at least the Civil War was fought by the North against the South to abolish that kind of white supremacy in the form of slavery. Very odd.

Perhaps... Just a weird jump in my head.
I mean why would a white (or jewish?) President of a stolen country even say that.
Or were black Americans up onto something that we don't know and we're not supposed to know?

Is that why they were kept in a sort of hostage in their own country until WW2 happend (i believe that is the big reset of the 20th century) and history was neatly erased and rewritten and Rosa Parks was able to stand up (or sit down- don't remember) in that bus?

The circumstances did not approve for most blacks after the war, in contrary; they were thrown into poverty.
But in the meantime the ex slaves managed to reach ages of 120 years old...

(About this Collection | Born in Slavery: Slave Narratives from the Federal Writers' Project, 1936-1938 | Digital Collections | Library of Congress)
(This is a strange book anyway...it says that the Yankees were out stealing slaves for example many ex slaves stayed with their masters after war because they were nice people...)

Nothing about this whole war and aftermath makes sense.

 

[Deleted member 1432]

This post and others related require summarising imo, then the bigger picture may become clearer. Personally I don't have time at the moment, but it's on my list, unless someone else jumps in before I get a round tuit.

 

[Gladius]

May I add a question regarding slavery, as it's presented to us as a catalyst for the civil war.

New Orleans auction of 18 enslaved persons from Alabama, 1858 (*)

When I read this sale post, I notice a few things.
The list mentions to the reader if the slave is Black. Examples:

No.9 DAN, Black, aged 23 years
N0.10 LEWIS, aged 35 years
No.7 POLLY, Negress aged 23
No.8 GEORGE, Griff, aged 23

Some are labelled Black/Negress, some labelled Griff, and most are simply not labelled.
"Griff" I found to mean = light skin, or mixed race.

Why bother making the distinction, if all slaves should be Black? Seems like the non-black slaves are the "default", while blacks/mixed have to be mentioned so.
Do we find an indication that practically any race member could've been under "slave" status prior to the abolishing?

(* Notice how the source website has copied the text onto the webpage, but omitted the parts that mention race.)

We also see that slaves are talked of professionally, and some even gracefully if they're excellent.
Interestingly, No.8 GEORGE, 23, is married to his wife and has four children., oldest being 7.
Articles I've found on the subject, claim that slaves did not have a legal right to marry, and that was in very rare cases.
Mr. George apparently is recognized as a married person. Possibly since age 16.

Could it be there's actually no historical difference between "slaves" , "serfs" and "indentured servitude"?

Does this coincide with the 1861 Emancipation of Russia which took place de facto in 1864?
Parallel to the Civil War years. We also have Poland's January Uprising 1863-1864 on the same years.
While I don't see wiki linking the uprising to emancipation, I also fail to understand its explanation for the uprising motives or catalysts.
This could be part of the same scenario that created the Confederacy, a secession from an Empire that is changing its social structure.

 

[Deleted member 1432]

Some are labelled Black/Negress, some labelled Griff, and most are simply not labelled.
"Griff" I found to mean = light skin, or mixed race.

This is interesting and could be related to earlier discussions concerning Castes, where someone postulated that the term 'Yankee' could also denote a particular mixed race origin.

Parallel to the Civil War years. We also have Poland's January Uprising 1863-1864 on the same years.

This was also concurrent with the Civil War:

The Circassian Genocide and the American Civil War.

 

[Worsaae]

This is interesting and could be related to earlier discussions concerning Castes, where someone postulated that the term 'Yankee' could also denote a particular mixed race origin.



This was also concurrent with the Civil War:

The Circassian Genocide and the American Civil War.

Connect it with the flag of Tartars that have a griff on it.

Connect it with tartars=rus=slavs.

The word slovo ("word") and the related slava ("glory, fame, praise") and slukh ("hearing") originate from the Proto-Indo-European root *ḱlew- ("be spoken of, glory"), cognate with Ancient Greek κλέος (kléos "fame"), whence comes the name Pericles, Latin clueo ("be called")

What do these words have in common? Word, glory, praise, hear, called?

• He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”
  Luke 11:28
• In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
  John 1:1
• He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
  Matt 11:15
• Hear the word of the Lord, O house of Jacob, and all the families of the house of Israel.
  Jer 2:4
• Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word
  John 8:43
• I will meet there with the sons of Israel, and it shall be consecrated by My glory
• For the Lord has redeemed Jacob
  And in Israel He shows forth His glory
• That glory may dwell in our land.
• Everyone who is called by My name,
  And whom I have created for My glory
• He said to Me, “You are My Servant, Israel,
  In Whom I will show My glory.”
• and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
• For many are called, but few are chosen
• And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My Church (ecclesia/called), and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
• There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling
• But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light
• And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose

We have another thread with excellent research by @debtforyou Tartary is Memory-Holed Because it is Key to Understanding the Bible, End Times

That links the Tartars with the lost tribes of Israel, Gods Glory.

 

[myth]

It was mentioned earlier in the thread that the Lincoln assassination was faked yet I didn't see the research of Dave McGowan mentioned.

Why Everything You Think You Know About the Lincoln Assassination is Wrong
The Lincoln Assassination

Also, there was a good interview by Ryan Dawson recently on the horrors of post civil war reconstruction.

Episode 561: The Horrors Of Post 'Civil War' Reconstruction w/ Ryan Dawson​

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU3JrHE-KAU

​

 

[Deleted member 37]

where someone postulated that the term 'Yankee' could also denote a particular mixed race origin.

To be fair I implied that Cherokees could be white people, since the Yankees are white and the two names are similar (and also similar to Afrikaans, so it would be interesting to know the opinion of Dutch speakers). It seems that the original story told in the XVIII century was that the Yankees took their name from an Indian local tribe who saw them "agreeable to the Indian custom" (Yankee - Wikipedia). This story was debunked by Sonneck who pointed out the non-existence of an Indian tribe called Yankees.

So, if this is true, then the "Indian legend" could refer to a possible white "Indian" tribe (the Yankees) and the Cherokees could be white too. It seems from the few articles I have read about them on the newspaper I posted that their complexion was white. So I implied a cover-up to transform a white tribe into a "native" one in the aftermath of some events during the middle to the end of the XVIII century itself.

Is this correct? I don't know. It's just an idea. Those interested could search more in depth maybe. Or maybe not!

 

[Deleted member 1432]

Connect it with the flag of Tartars that have a griff on it.

Connect it with tartars=rus=slavs.



What do these words have in common? Word, glory, praise, hear, called?

• He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”
  Luke 11:28
• In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
  John 1:1
• He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
  Matt 11:15
• Hear the word of the Lord, O house of Jacob, and all the families of the house of Israel.
  Jer 2:4
• Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word
  John 8:43
• I will meet there with the sons of Israel, and it shall be consecrated by My glory
• For the Lord has redeemed Jacob
  And in Israel He shows forth His glory
• That glory may dwell in our land.
• Everyone who is called by My name,
  And whom I have created for My glory
• He said to Me, “You are My Servant, Israel,
  In Whom I will show My glory.”
• and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
• For many are called, but few are chosen
• And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My Church (ecclesia/called), and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
• There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling
• But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light
• And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose

We have another thread with excellent research by @debtforyou Tartary is Memory-Holed Because it is Key to Understanding the Bible, End Times

That links the Tartars with the lost tribes of Israel, Gods Glory.

'Griff: Meaning: hooked nose
Griff as a boy's name is of Latin origin, and the meaning of Griff is "hooked nose".' (Article)

"Griff as a boys' name has its roots in Latin and Welsh, and Griff means "hooked nose; lord, prince". Griff is an alternate spelling of Griffin (Latin): in Greek mythology and medieval legend. Griff is also a variant of Griffith (Welsh): anglicized version of Gruffudd." (Article)

"Definition of griff (Entry 1 of 2)
dialectal, England: a deep narrow glen or ravine.
griff noun (2)
\ ˈgrif \ variants: or less commonly griffin \ ˈgri-fən \ plural -s (Article)

"a deep narrow glen or ravine" like the Grand Canyon - so, a tribe of Welsh people with hooked noses left over from Prince Madoc's colonisation of America who inhabited the Grand Canyon.

Some of the images are clearly dragons, not Griffins or Gryphons.

Connect it with tartars=rus=slavs.

Why? More 'Khaoz Etymology'?

'Max Vasmer, the authority for Slavic etymologies, rejects a connection to *slava "glory, fame," which, however, influenced Slav via folk etymology. This is the -slav in personal names (such as Russian Miroslav, literally "peaceful fame;" Mstislav "vengeful fame;" Jaroslav "famed for fury;" Czech Bohuslav "God's glory;" Latinized Wenceslas "having greater glory"), perhaps from PIE root *kleu- "to hear."' (Article)

 

[Worsaae]

Griffe meaning:
- mixed (a person of three-quarter black and one-quarter white ancestry)
- or mixed (a person of mixed black and American Indian blood)
- hook nosed (like a eagle)
- hooked claw (like a lion)
- and a mythical legendary creature that is a mix between a lion and an eagle.

Note black and white also have biblical meanings, as does a lion and eagle.
Is that it? The Griffe represents the union of these two tribes? The tribe of the lion and the tribe of the eagle?

 

[Deleted member 1432]

Griffe meaning:
- mixed (a person of three-quarter black and one-quarter white ancestry)
- or mixed (a person of mixed black and American Indian blood)
- hook nosed (like a eagle)
- hooked claw (like a lion)
- and a mythical legendary creature that is a mix between a lion and an eagle.

Note black and white also have biblical meanings, as does a lion and eagle.
Is that it? The Griffe represents the union of these two tribes? The tribe of the lion and the tribe of the eagle?

Do you have references for this or do we have your imagination to thank for it?

This notion of the 10 lost tribes being in the Americas was promoted by Cromwell's financier, Menasseh Ben Israel's propaganda pamplet 'The Hope of Israel' in 1650:

"the ten Tribes... determined to goe into Countries farre remote, in which none dwelt, whereby they might the better observe their Law. And as they passed over some branches of Euphrates,... till they had passed over; and that Country is called Arsareth. From whence we may gather, that the ten Tribes went to New-Spaine, and Peru, and possessed those two Kingdoms, till then without Inhabitants. Genebrardus, quoting Esdras concerning that wandring of the ten Tribes, saith, that Arsareth is Tartaria the greater, and from thence they went to Greenland, for that America is lately found to be on that side farther from Sea, than it is upon other sides, being almost an Island, and they might passe from Greenland by the streight of Davis into the Country Labrador, which is now called India, being fifty miles distant from thence, as Gomoras saith in his History. The same journying of the ten Tribes into India, is confirmed by that which P. Malvenda reports, That Arsareth is that Promontory which is neare to Scythia, or Tartary, neare the Sea, called by Pliny, Talis, where America is parted from the Country of Anian by a narrow Sea; which also on that side parts China, or Tartary from America; so that there might be an easie passage for the ten Tribes through Arsareth, or Tartary into the Kingdomes of Anian, and Quivira; which in time might plant the new world, and firme land; which in bignesse equals Europe, Asia, and Africa put together; Alonsus Augustinianus counting from the shoare of the North Sea, from the Country of Labrador 3928 miles, and from Sur, 3000 miles; but Gomaras counts from India by the South, and Sur, 9300 miles; which space is bigge enough for the ten Tribes, that they may there spread in places hitherto unknowne."

Which is a real geographical mess, but even he didn't equate America with Tartaria because he claims that the 10 tribes had to pass through Tartaria to get to... wherever it was they went - assuming that they're real and not just a myth.

Anyway, I don't see how any of this relates to the Civil War.

 

[Worsaae]

Do you have references for this or do we have your imagination to thank for it?

This notion of the 10 lost tribes being in the Americas was promoted by Cromwell's financier, Menasseh Ben Israel's propaganda pamplet 'The Hope of Israel' in 1650:

"the ten Tribes... determined to goe into Countries farre remote, in which none dwelt, whereby they might the better observe their Law. And as they passed over some branches of Euphrates,... till they had passed over; and that Country is called Arsareth. From whence we may gather, that the ten Tribes went to New-Spaine, and Peru, and possessed those two Kingdoms, till then without Inhabitants. Genebrardus, quoting Esdras concerning that wandring of the ten Tribes, saith, that Arsareth is Tartaria the greater, and from thence they went to Greenland, for that America is lately found to be on that side farther from Sea, than it is upon other sides, being almost an Island, and they might passe from Greenland by the streight of Davis into the Country Labrador, which is now called India, being fifty miles distant from thence, as Gomoras saith in his History. The same journying of the ten Tribes into India, is confirmed by that which P. Malvenda reports, That Arsareth is that Promontory which is neare to Scythia, or Tartary, neare the Sea, called by Pliny, Talis, where America is parted from the Country of Anian by a narrow Sea; which also on that side parts China, or Tartary from America; so that there might be an easie passage for the ten Tribes through Arsareth, or Tartary into the Kingdomes of Anian, and Quivira; which in time might plant the new world, and firme land; which in bignesse equals Europe, Asia, and Africa put together; Alonsus Augustinianus counting from the shoare of the North Sea, from the Country of Labrador 3928 miles, and from Sur, 3000 miles; but Gomaras counts from India by the South, and Sur, 9300 miles; which space is bigge enough for the ten Tribes, that they may there spread in places hitherto unknowne."

Which is a real geographical mess, but even he didn't equate America with Tartaria because he claims that the 10 tribes had to pass through Tartaria to get to... wherever it was they went - assuming that they're real and not just a myth.

Anyway, I don't see how any of this relates to the Civil War.

I've seen Arsareth on maps in Tartaria. I have it here.

It is close to the ship, left of it.

We have a thread by KD, where he hypothesises that Tartaria extended into America and I don't remember if it is in that thread, where he hypothesises that the Americas was already populated and that this is why it took centuries to occupy north America through conquest.
It is interesting that we have mentions of "griffes" and "negro" slaves before the "civil war".
As for sources for the previous post, I used a mainstream source here:
Definition of GRIFFE

Griffe also seems to be connected to farming tools (in french) with "hooked claws"