Sixteenth century maps from Tuscany

[Deleted member 37]

Eighteenth map titled ‘La Spagna’ by Stefano Bonsignori.

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Spain (Spagna) was inhabited starting from the twelfth (XII) year of the reign of Nimrod (Nembot)*, which corresponded to year 1800 (MDCCC) since the creation of the world. Its first King was Tubal (Re Tubale), son of Japhet (Iafet) son of Noah (Noe), called Caelus (Cielo). He and Tubal called this land Celtubalia. Then King Ibero (Ibero) called it Celtiberia, then Iberia and in the end it was called Hispania (Ispania) by King Hispan (Ispano) around the year 2300 (MMCCC). It was for many centuries under the royal government, but during the reign of Abido it was abandoned due to the drought which endured for 26 (XXVI) years, and it was entirely inhabited except for those living near the Pyrenees (Pirenei) mountains, so named for the great conflagration that took place there. For this a great amount of gold was destroyed within these mountains, which was then brought to light due to the cracks produced by a great earthquake in the year 3500 (MMMD) and given to the Phoenicians (Fenici) and to those of Marseille (Marsilia) by the Spaniards (Spag.li), who didn’t know its value. When the Spaniards returned after the drought, they no longer had a ruler and so the Carthaginians (Cartaginesi) came with the intent to conquer it, but after lenghty wars they left its conquest to the Romans (Romani). James (Iacopo) the apostle and his disciples preached the Gospel of Our Lord Jesus Christ (Euagelio di N.S.I.C.) and they got great results. The Goths (Gotti) and other people from the North (Tramontana) arrived guided by their King Suintila (Suetilla) in the year of Christ 630, and ruled over it for many years. But after the year 700 it was occupied by the Moors (Mori), who kept it until Ferdinand the Catholic King (Ferdinando il Re Cattolico) reduced it to obedience, except for Portugal (Portogallo). He ruled not only over a part of Italy (Italia), and the islands of Sicily (Sicilia) and Sardinia (Sardigna), but he also discovered the new world and conquered a part of it, whence he took so much gold in exchange for futile things, that he managed to repair the damage of the gold taken by the Marsilians (Marsiliani) and the Phoenicians. And in its territory** there are 5 Reigns (V Regni), 21 Duchies (Duchi XXI), 20 Marks (Marchesi XX), 60 Counties (Conti LX) and 7 Viscountcies (Viceconti VII). And it’s very rich in terms of ecclesiastical assets, since there are 9 Archbishops (Archiuescoui IX) and 48*** Bishops (Vescoui XLVIII) with large incomings.

* It should be Nimrod, since Nembrot is one of the variants of his name, very similar to Nembot.

** I suppose Bonsignori is talking about the entire territory ruled by Ferdinand and not the American territories alone.

*** XLVIII should be 48… hopefully!

Lots of ‘Anno Mundi’ dates here.

So apparently we have here another possible definition for the Gauls. What is it now? The sixth, seventh, eighth? Tubal here is not a Scythian or a Tartarian. He is simply Japhet’s son and ruled over Spain, to which he gave his name combined with that of grandaddy Noah, called Caelus (aka Sky, Uranus) for the occasion. And therefore we have the Celtubalians! Never heard of them before and I already love them. They transform into the Celtiberians because a certain Ibero (couldn’t find info on this dude) pops out of nowhere. And then Hispan takes the lead, about whom there’s some meagre info. He settles the problem once for all by calling the land Spain.
This Celtubalian thing seems really fictitious but it’s nonetheless intriguing. Cielo is Italian and Spanish for Sky, so it’s not so obvious to say that it’s a ‘Roman-Vatican’ fake, since in the map of Italy we saw how, according to this narrative, Spain had a major role in Italian history through Hesperus and Atlas Italus.

The story of the drought is very interesting too. Never heard of that and couldn't find informations about King Abido. And I also never heard about the great fire of the Pyrenees, which in fact contain the word ‘fire’ in their name. And what about the gold? And the earthquake?
Phoenicians and Massilians are the sneaky ones here. Where is that gold now? Wait, I have a suspect… In the Vatican Library!!! Just anticipating someone’s comment here, LOL.

The Goths took control of Spain during Suintila’s reign (Suintila - Wikipedia). The text here implies they took over from the Romans but the modern narrative tells us it was the Byzantines. But we know for a fact that Byzantines and Romans were the same, so here we have the usual confusion. It seems the Goths took over in that period and not in the 5th centry AD according to consensual chronology. It seems there are multiple traces of this.

 

[Safranek]

** I couldn’t find much information about a possible translation and/or meaning of the word Chitim, other than the variant Chitin. It seems to be an appelative of Atlas.

I found a Kitiim in the History of Armenia who was allegedly the patriarch of the Romans.

1. After the inundations descending from heaven and the drowning of all the living under the abysmal waters, and after the most unwilling navigation of Noah and his coming out on shore in Armenia in accord with the order of the Lord together with his children, their wives and still others and non-rational brutes, once again the earth began to quicken through divine supervision.
2. To our own Japheth [Yabetc] at first a son was born and was named Gomer [Gamir], and the territory in his possession was named Gamirk' from his name.
3. Then Magog was born, and the descendants of Magog are the Celts [Kehkc] and Galatians [Gaiataccikc].
4. Then came Maday who named the territory of his house Media [Mark5] after himself.
5. Subsequently, came Tubal [Tobel], after whom the Thessalians [T'etalk'J were named, and Meshech [Mosok'], who ruled over Illyria [Liwrikia].
6. The sixth son was Tiras from whom were born our very own Ashkenaz [Ask'anaz] and Togarmah [T'orgom] who named the country that he possessed Thrace after himself, as well as Chittim [K'itiim] who brought under his sway the Macedonians.
7. The sons of Tiras were Ashkenaz, from whom descended the Sarmatians [Sarmatk'], Riphath [Rip'at], whence the Sauromatians [Soramatk'], and Togarmah, who according to Jeremiah subjugated the Ashkenazian army and called it the House of Togarmah; for at first Ashkenaz had named our people after himself in accord with the law of seniority, as we shall explain in its proper place.
8. From Javan [Yawan], the ancestor of the Greeks, descended Elisha [Etisa] whose progeny are the Sicilians [Sikilaccikc] and Athenians [Atcenaceikc], and Tarshish [T'arsis], the ancestor of the Iberians [Virk'] and the Tyrrhenians [Tiwrenac'ik'J,
9. and Kitris [Kitiim] whose offsprings are the Romans [Hrowmayec"ik].

Source: https://ia800500.us.archive.org/5/items/HistoryOfArmeniaByJohnKatholikos/YD_History_Maksoudian.pdf

 

[Deleted member 37]

Nineteenth map titled ‘Nubia’ by Stefano Bonsignori.

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Saturn (Saturno), that is to say* Cush (Cur)** son of Ham (Camese)***, was the first King (Re) of this Province (Provincia), once called Eritrea (Eterea)****, subsequantly taking the name Ethiopia (Etiopia) after King Aethiop (Etiope). Divine rites were always practiced in this region. A part of it was occupied by the Indians (Indiai), who didn’t change its name, and afterwards no other people entered anymore. Cambyses (Cambise) was the only one who tried to conquer it, but he gave up when his army was decimated by the lack of provisions. Ethiopians (Etiopi) sent colonies in Egypt (Egitto) and in Italy (Italia) under Phaethon (Fetonte). They had their royal seat in Meroe, then Garama and nowadays in Zambra. This reign was mighty since the start and it still is and never changed its government. They say that their emperor, called Prester John (Iani), was born from David's lineage. And in order to avoid chances of revolutions in the state and dissent, only those with his blood live freely while everybody else is all under vigilance. Thanks to the preaching of the apostle Philip (Filippo) they accepted the faith in Christ (Cristo), nor they abandoned it.

* Italian ‘ovvero’ (‘o vero’ in the text) nowadays means ‘or, or else’ but in the past it also meant ‘that is to say’. It’s really confusing to chose here what’s the best solution.

** I suppose he is Cush.

*** We saw that Bonsignori uses Cam and Camese as two interchangeable names for Saturn, even though there’s confusion with Cam’s son Canaan. But how is it possible that Cam/Camese/Saturn is Cush’s father if Cush’s other name is Saturn? This should mean that ‘o vero’ means ‘or, or else’ rather than ‘that is to say’ (see *). Therefore Bonsignori doesn’t know who the first king was. Ham or Cush?

**** I’m not sure Eterea should be translated with Eritrea, but it makes sense to me. The word brings to mind the Aether (the element) or Terra (meaning Earth). It’s fun to see how both terms are full of deep meanings. Are they related to this land? In a previous map it was said that Egypt was anciently called Aeria. Was it another spelling of Eteria?

This map is packed with alternative histories.

About Indians in Sudan one should ask what kind of Indians! If we want to use it in the most regular way then we are talking about the Indians from India.
In the manuscript El Becerro General (El origen inédito del Cristianismo oficial, un matrimonio y/o un proyecto indio) it is taught the story of the choice of faith between Chistianity, Judaism and Islam through a marriage between a representative of the three faiths with the ‘Princess of the Three Indies’. Her choice is ‘Don Juan’ coming from Rome sent by the Holy Father and he will be the first Prester John, according to this tale.
This story is obviously a variant of the famous choice of faith so widespread during the Middle-Ages and whose most famous example is the choice which Paris had to do with the Trojan War as an ending result. It seems in any case strange that a simple ‘Roman’ priest by the name of Don Juan was at the origin of the legendary Priester John. I repeat my idea regarding the possible connection with Noah. It is Bonsignori who usually places Noah everywhere, but he doesn’t do it here, so it is my duty to take care this time, LOL.
@HELLBOY let me know your thoughts.

And then? Ethiopians in Italy guided by Phaethon? What does it mean?

There’s in any case a peculiar similarity between the Pope’s representation and the Prester John. Do they have a common origin? Is it the Pope inheriting something from the Priester John or is it the other way around? And what about the other John, the one living in Russia/Muscovy? I am very inclined to think they are/were inheritors of a common belief system and/or traditions. Was it Noah/Janus their common ancestor?

There’s more to say about this map. Let me know what you think.

 

[Deleted member 37]

Twentieth map titled ‘La Schiavonia’ by Stefano Bonsignori.

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This Province (Provincia) and what lies beyond till the Greater (Maggiore)* sea and the Archipelago (Arcipelago)** was assigned from the ancient father Noah (Noe), in the third (3) year of Belus King of the Assyrians (Belo Re degli Assiri), to his nephew Tiras (Tira), Japhet’s (Iapeto) son, together with Arcas (Arcadio) and Emathus (Ematio)*** sons of Canaan (Canaam) called Phoenician Ham (Cam Fenice), who was son of Ham (Camese). After many years it was dominated by Illyrius (Illirio) son of Cadmus (Cadmo), from which it derived its name Illyria (Illiria) and it kept it for a long time, until the Sclaveni (Schiauoni), people from the north, chased away its inhabitants and occupied it in the time of Emperor Phocas (Foca Imp.re). They called it Slavonia (Schiuonia), and even though Barbarians (Barbari), they have expanded their name and their territory, whose extension in comparison to any other Province and Nation (Nazione) can be judged**** by the fact that their own language and letters (Caratteri) are nowadays used and found not only among Bosnians (Bossinesi), Serbians (Seruiani), Bulgarians (Bulgari), Russians (Rossi), Bohemians (Boemi), Poles (Polacchi), Lithuanians (Lituani) and Muscovites (Moscouiti), but also in Asia among the Tatars (Tartari)***** and even at the court of the Great Prince of the Turks (Gran S.re de i Turchi) who rules over most of it. This Province was in ancient times governed by its own sovereigns until it was subjected to the Roman (Rom.) Emperors, from whom, as already mentioned, it passed to the Sclaveni and then in part to the Hungarians (Vngari). But today it obeys in part to the Great Prince of the Turks, another part to the Venetian Senate (Senato Veneto) and another to the Austrian Archduke (Arciduca di Austria). Even though it’s a mountainous region for the most part, it is in any case fertile and rich in pastures and mines, from which resources and from the presence of the sea the inhabitants take great advantage, through which they live in abundance and peace.

* The Black Sea

** The Aegean Sea

*** I don’t know if it’s Emathus (Emathus - Wikipedia) or Emathion (Emathion - Wikipedia).

**** I’m not certain of the translation of ‘and their territory … can be judged’, but it should be something similar in any case.

***** I’m using the common translation not involving mythical Tartarians fighting Parasites, LOL.

This map is very interesting from a purely historical point of view.

Bonsignori says that Noah gave this territory together with all the lands that lie from there to the Black Sea going East and to the Aegean Sea going South. He gave it to some descendants of Japhet and Canaan, who is mentioned here for the first time with his proper name (and so it seems that Bonsignori always intended Ham to be Cam/Camese/Saturn), and who is given the nickname ‘Fenice’, Phoenician.

Arcadio is clearly the Arcas of Greek 'myth'. According to wiki one of the people descended from Canaan were the Arkites, supposedly from the city of Arqa in Lebanon. It seems the Greeks preserved the tradition better than the Jews. Were these Phoenicians really coming from the Middle-East?
Immediately after started the rule of Illyrus, son of Cadmus, another Phoenician. Cadmus is said to be the one introducing the Phoenician alphabet in Greece.
And then it’s the turn of the Slavs, the Sclaveni, who took over the region and expanded their borders and their language, alphabet included.

Am I the only one seeing a repetition here? Just few miles away to the West we have the Venetians and the famous seafaring city of Venice. While Venice and the Venetians remind the slavic Wends, the same word ‘Venetian’ seems to be a slight variation of the word ‘Phoenician’, with whom they shared the dominion of the seas and possibly other things.

So we have Slavs-Sclaveni-Venedi-Venetians-Phoenicians, and a strange recurrence of a story of language and alphabets.

A final word for the very clear distinction Bonsignori makes between Russians, Muscovites and Tartars. Deal with it, LOL!

 

[Safranek]

The KEY PROBLEM in assessing the historical information from the various NAMES in sources is summarized best by Istvan Horvat author of the book Drawings - The Oldest Histories of the Magyar Nation (pg. 90) in the following paragraph:

It is hardly imaginable, that the human Names would not have been corrupted, twisted and twisted by different Nations, and even if only by one People, as we still have fresh examples today.​

​

We know that Elisabetha = Ersebet = Ersi = Örzse = Liza =Lizi = Lilla = Bösi = Böske = Pere = Persi, and more.​

But how can a scientist, who is not initiated into all the branches of common language habits, get to know this diversity? However, in this way, as we see in this example, until we define the various unifying names; until the Translations of such names are faithfully collected and understood: Until then, the Earth will spread out hundreds and hundreds of Nations, and the world will not have a connected History even when there could be one. And it was these thoughts that caused me, encouraged by the times fraught with great deeds to be attentive, first of all to collect the Main Order of Rules, according to which the old History should be prepared, and then I reached for the Histories of our Nation.​

I will post more from this fantastic book, and I mean fantastic because he not only quotes a plethora of ancient sources continuously throughout the book, but correlates the NAMES being referred to by cross-referencing those sources, essentially laying out the example of how to correlate all the different 'stories', thereby rewriting the history of Nations adding a linguistic context pertaining to Names, personal, national and geographical.

 

[iseidon]

The KEY PROBLEM in assessing the historical information from the various NAMES in sources is summarized best by Istvan Horvat author of the book Drawings - The Oldest Histories of the Magyar Nation (pg. 90) in the following paragraph:

It is hardly imaginable, that the human Names would not have been corrupted, twisted and twisted by different Nations, and even if only by one People, as we still have fresh examples today.​

​

We know that Elisabetha = Ersebet = Ersi = Örzse = Liza =Lizi = Lilla = Bösi = Böske = Pere = Persi, and more.​

But how can a scientist, who is not initiated into all the branches of common language habits, get to know this diversity? However, in this way, as we see in this example, until we define the various unifying names; until the Translations of such names are faithfully collected and understood: Until then, the Earth will spread out hundreds and hundreds of Nations, and the world will not have a connected History even when there could be one. And it was these thoughts that caused me, encouraged by the times fraught with great deeds to be attentive, first of all to collect the Main Order of Rules, according to which the old History should be prepared, and then I reached for the Histories of our Nation.​

I will post more from this fantastic book, and I mean fantastic because he not only quotes a plethora of ancient sources continuously throughout the book, but correlates the NAMES being referred to by cross-referencing those sources, essentially laying out the example of how to correlate all the different 'stories', thereby rewriting the history of Nations adding a linguistic context pertaining to Names, personal, national and geographical.

That's why I mentioned inter-letter and inter-sound transitions quite often.

The unification (as we hear it, so we write it) of languages is necessary to reduce confusion (the International Phonetic Alphabet adds even more confusion).

But this is a distant prospect.

UPD1. For @Silveryou.

Diri*

* I couldn’t find who this deity corresponds to.

In the map "Scitia", there was a mention of Diri. Possibly a connection with the prince of Kiev (rus; within the official version). Perhaps they are somehow connected.

UPD2. The second curious point about "Scitia" is this. If you believe the official version of history, it turns out that the map was made at a time when the Moscow/Russian kingdom was developing/occupying the lands of the Volga region, the Urals and Siberia. But there is no indication of this (in the map presented).

Conquest of the Khanate of Sibir - Wikipedia (+ I suggest reading the versions in other languages).

Русское царство — Википедия (rus). Read the history, which refers to the 16th century. Amazingly, there is no hint of this in the "Scitia" map. Wikipedia (in this case) gives the same (±) material that is studied in ordinary Russian educational institutions.

UPD3. About the virgin (half woman and half viper-snake). Perhaps there is a connection with the Mistress of the Copper Mountain (instead of a viper, a lizard) or with Lamia, Echidna, Shahmaran (Verechelen, Zilant?).

Cameni Poias – Kamenny Poyas = Stone Belt.

Cities:

Strupili – ≈ Stropilo = Rafter
Poiassa – Poyas = Belt.
Cameni – Kamen' = Stone.
Weliki Poiassa – Veliky/Bol'shoy Poyas = Great/Big Belt.

Poyas (Belt), Veliky/Bol'shoy Poyas (Great Belt), Kamen' (Stone). + Khrebet or Gorny Khrebet (Ridge or Mountain Ridge). All Slavic words. All of these words are used today when talking about the Urals.

River/Fiume/Fluss:

Stzuchogora – Shchuchiya Gora = Pike Mountain. A pike in Russian culture means magic. The phrase "by the will of a pike, by my will" ("po shchuchiemu veleniyu, po moemu hoteniyu") means "as if by magic and at my wish".

I found this river to be a curious point, since one of my favorite places in the Urals is called the Pike Lakes (Big (rus) and Small) in the Yamalo-Nenets Autonomous Okrug.

The modern Shchuchya River flows out of them, but it is on the eastern slope of the Ural Mountains (in the Yamalo-Nenets Autonomous Okrug).

The other toponyms are either still found today (or are often found on maps), or are incomprehensible (there are few of them).

UPD4. Another curious point. In Russian the word mountain (when talking about a high elevation) can be spoken as "pik" (peak). It is very similar to "pike". Coincidence?

Derived from the word "piki" (spades – card suit + stabbing weapons). Plus, a very subtle, sharp and quiet exclamation.

Apparently, "picture" (something drawn with a brush or consisting of many drawn dots/elements) and "pixel" are words from the same group. It is possible that the collective root "pik" denotes "point (of) a pointed tip".

I apologize for responding only now. Some material was collected a few days ago, but it went down in my task feed. I just remembered about it today.

UPD5. For @HELLBOY. In response to this post.

The Chichimecs who remained in the mountains (they lived in deep caves) left the new people in quiet possession of their lands, and learned some of their customs, to the extent that they began to build huts, elect governors and live according to their laws.

In Russian, there is the word "chuchmek" (rus). It is a collective (and almost always pejorative) word referring to former (or current) nomadic Mongoloid Siberians. If you want, you can call anyone who does something wrong (it has nothing to do with ethnicity) that way. In nationalist circles, this is (among other things) what all non-Russians are called.

UPD6. For @HELLBOY. In response to this post.

Indeed. In Jewish texts, the "Red Sea" is named through the Hebrew phrase "Yam Suf", whose exact translation is "Sea of seaweed" .

Precisely in the middle of the Atlantic, today, there is an immense prairie of brownish red algae, known as the "Sargasso Sea".

This sea has an extension similar to that which occupies all of Europe, and revolves around the Bermuda Islands.

Christopher Columbus would narrate his transit through the Sargasso Sea in his "Logbook":

"... They saw much grass and very often, and it was rock grass, and the grass came from towards the west. They judged themselves to be near land.

So, inevitably we must ask ourselves if there is any connection between the "Sea of seaweed" that Moses and the people of Israel crossed, and the "Sargasso Sea".

Perhaps there is a connection to the red waters (rus)?

In October 2020 in Kamchatka, there was this (rus). Also the Red Sea?

UPD7. For @HELLBOY. In response to this post.

This is just a thought of mine, from time to time I like to relate certain things, in Mexico there was another type of warrior called chinaco (from where the famous Mexican charro was born) his ideal partner "la china poblana", another type of warrior was the Dragon de Cuera, the warriors were born here in America who maintained order in North America in California and New Mexico and so on.

There is a word "chin" (rus) in the Russian language. It means "post, rank, position, official" (post, rang, dolzhnost', chinovnik) or "slender, noble" (stroyno, blagorodno) or "order" (poryadok) or "make, fix, repair" (delat', chinit', remontirovat'). Very often the word combination "military rank" (voenny chin) is used. Often, this is the common name for a military officer.

"Totenkopf" is also called "Adam's head".

 

[ViniB]

The KEY PROBLEM in assessing the historical information from the various NAMES in sources is summarized best by Istvan Horvat author of the book Drawings - The Oldest Histories of the Magyar Nation (pg. 90) in the following paragraph:

It is hardly imaginable, that the human Names would not have been corrupted, twisted and twisted by different Nations, and even if only by one People, as we still have fresh examples today.​

​

We know that Elisabetha = Ersebet = Ersi = Örzse = Liza =Lizi = Lilla = Bösi = Böske = Pere = Persi, and more.​

But how can a scientist, who is not initiated into all the branches of common language habits, get to know this diversity? However, in this way, as we see in this example, until we define the various unifying names; until the Translations of such names are faithfully collected and understood: Until then, the Earth will spread out hundreds and hundreds of Nations, and the world will not have a connected History even when there could be one. And it was these thoughts that caused me, encouraged by the times fraught with great deeds to be attentive, first of all to collect the Main Order of Rules, according to which the old History should be prepared, and then I reached for the Histories of our Nation.​

I will post more from this fantastic book, and I mean fantastic because he not only quotes a plethora of ancient sources continuously throughout the book, but correlates the NAMES being referred to by cross-referencing those sources, essentially laying out the example of how to correlate all the different 'stories', thereby rewriting the history of Nations adding a linguistic context pertaining to Names, personal, national and geographical.

Looking foward for this book, it may finally clear up some of the mess this thread did on my mind hahahah

 

[Deleted member 37]

Twenty-first map titled ‘Affrica’ by Stefano Bonsignori.

​

The First Ruler (P.o Signore) of Libya (Libia), that is minor Africa (Affrica), was Triton (Tritone) son of Sheba (Saba)*, son of Cush (Cur)**, son of Ham (Camese), son of Noah (Noe). He took over the state with its colonies in the year 18 (XVIII) of King Nimrod of the Assyrians (Nimbrot Re degli Assiri) and left there his son Ammon (Ammone), who took for wife Rhea (Rea), sister of Ham King of Egypt (Egitto). Since he fathered Dionysus (Dioisio) with Amalthea (Amaltea), he came into discord with her and she left and took for husband his brother Ham and together they took away the state from Ammon. But Dionysius drove them out of Lybia in order to avenge his father and adopted their son Osiris (Osiride) and made him King of Egypt. He also adopted Pallas (Pallade), who taught the art of war to the Lybians (Libici). But after a long time their Women (Done) harassed King Iarbas (Iarba) the First and he very humbly gave them many gifts and defered to them every decision***. Later the Phoenicians (Fenici) came. They built many Cities (Città) among which Carthage (Cartagine) that fought against the Romans (Romani) for supremacy. It was destroyed and the Province (Puincia) remained under Roman rule until Gaiseric (Geserigo) King of the Vandals (Vandali) bought it. This province accepted the faith in Christ (X.o) but kept it not for so long, since it was occupied by the Arabs Saracens (Arabi Saracini), who ruled over it up until it passed to the Turks (Turchi), who still rule it today.

* Not sure that Saba it’s in fact the Sheba of the legendary Queen, but it fits with his ancestry.

** I already translated Cur with Cush in a previous map. I hope it’s correct.

*** A weird sentence. It’s hard to tell what that ‘First’ means, since it’s attributed to King Iarbas, so it probably means he was the first of some rulers with the same name. The rest of the sentence is not very clear, but the general sense seems to be that Iarbas had to deal with these Lybian women and managed to do it by sharing his power with them or something like that.

I don’t have much to say, mainly due to the fact that there’s too much to say. Nowadays we talk about ancient Gods who are not supposed to exist or are supposed to be something coming out of human’s mind, while here we are dealing with real characters having territories and fighting each other for power. The various identifications of these Gods one with the other are not followed. Here Ammon is not Zeus/Jupiter since we saw in another map the identification of Jupiter with Osiris.
In a previous map we had events unfolding in the third year of Assyrian Belus, here we have the eighteenth year of Nimrod. Gods acted side by side with semi-historical characters.

Women instructed by Pallas (the text says she was a ‘she’, so it must be Athena) and threatening the current king with brute force is the dream of every modern feminist. Do they know this story after an abundant century of their ‘studies’ in search for their freedom from eeeevil men, LOL?

 

[Deleted member 37]

In the map "Scitia", there was a mention of Diri. Possibly a connection with the prince of Kiev (rus; within the official version). Perhaps they are somehow connected.

I think we should search for some diety and/or hero in Greek mythology. The list of eventual characters gave no results for me though.

The second curious point about "Scitia" is this. If you believe the official version of history, it turns out that the map was made at a time when the Moscow/Russian kingdom was developing/occupying the lands of the Volga region, the Urals and Siberia. But there is no indication of this (in the map presented).

I think it's more geography/history oriented though. There is another map by the other guy Ignazio Danti that I've not yet translated but I know it's more actuality oriented (for that period of time, no Putins have been harmed in the making of that map).

About the virgin (half woman and half viper-snake). Perhaps there is a connection with the Mistress of the Copper Mountain (instead of a viper, a lizard) or with Lamia, Echidna, Shahmaran (Verechelen, Zilant?).

Yes. In Greek 'mythology' the Scythians were born out of the relation between Hercules and Echidna. That also reminds me of the Chinese people saying they are a nation descended from the Dragon... who knows!

Cities:

Strupili – ≈ Stropilo = Rafter
Poiassa – Poyas = Belt.
Cameni – Kamen' = Stone.
Weliki Poiassa – Veliky/Bol'shoy Poyas = Great/Big Belt.

Can you actually recognize some of these cities or geographical features? The map is about 'Karelia and Northern Russia'. The main rivers represented are the Volga, the Oka, the Pechora and the 'Ob. The Riphean mountains are clearly the Urals and that land West to the 'Ob's estuary/gulf.
The map is called 'Part of Scythia', implying there's another part, possibly to the East of the 'Ob and the Urals. It's in any case a map centered on the North of modern Russia, so I wonder if there's a connection with the linguistic maps connecting those parts with Central Asia and I wonder what was the migratory sense. From North to South or the other way around? Here the author says it was from the Caucasus. By the way, this map below is probably an example of how these ancient stories have conditioned our 'schienthific' perspective and have been removed afterwards to give more credibility to the narrative and/or modify it.

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Looking foward for this book, it may finally clear up some of the mess this thread did on my mind hahahah

I thought about this thread to be something like this on purpose. People who actually don't care about history are going to be confused since here there is no narrative to follow and you are free to make up your mind with the content you read. I strongly invite you to try coming up with some idea out of your own experience/knowledge rather than following the next big trend. Cheers

 

[Safranek]

The First Ruler (P.o Signore) of Libya (Libia), that is minor Africa (Affrica), was Triton (Tritone) son of Sheba (Saba)*, son of Cush (Cur)**, son of Ham (Camese), son of Noah (Noe).

Stated in the aforementioned book of my previous post (pg. 28);

The Scythians were Chamites and according to Moses whom I could not think more credible, the inhabitants of Africa. Their residence was Nubia and Abyssinia, where it is easy to find the home of Magyars, Huns, or Bissenus, Nomades, Avars, Enareas, Uz, on the tablecloth of Africa.​

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The old Abia, Abissenus, Bissenus European and Asian names have proclaimed this uninterrupted. The fact that Egypt was often visited from here is no doubt. Making great advances in the beautification (because every new traveler* derives this beautification from Abissinia and Nubia), their princes began to raise the great pyramids instead of the Hunhaloms** or the King's mounds (Hunenbette, Hunengräber), and later this caused the people to emigrate. This is what Moses' mixing of languages was, and in the field of Sennaar in Nubia was built a big tower, and also the big city of Babylonia, Babylonia (Bábul, Bábulna, Bábolna), not in Asia.​

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* he could be referring to narratives written by travelers of the time, or I'm translating badly.
** halom = mound

So he places Babylon in Sennaar in Nubia.

and,

The Scythians, as Sunworshipers, already carried the Titanes name in their old homeland.​

I'm only half-way through the book and I have to keep re-reading as I'm struggling to understand it while translating the Latin (a lot of quotes), so its a very slow process. According to this author, the Greek myths are to be taken historically.

 

[iseidon]

I think we should search for some diety and/or hero in Greek mythology. The list of eventual characters gave no results for me though.


I think it's more geography/history oriented though. There is another map by the other guy Ignazio Danti that I've not yet translated but I know it's more actuality oriented (for that period of time, no Putins have been harmed in the making of that map).


Yes. In Greek 'mythology' the Scythians were born out of the relation between Hercules and Echidna. That also reminds me of the Chinese people saying they are a nation descended from the Dragon... who knows!


Can you actually recognize some of these cities or geographical features? The map is about 'Karelia and Northern Russia'. The main rivers represented are the Volga, the Oka, the Pechora and the 'Ob. The Riphean mountains are clearly the Urals and that land West to the 'Ob's estuary/gulf.
The map is called 'Part of Scythia', implying there's another part, possibly to the East of the 'Ob and the Urals. It's in any case a map centered on the North of modern Russia, so I wonder if there's a connection with the linguistic maps connecting those parts with Central Asia and I wonder what was the migratory sense. From North to South or the other way around? Here the author says it was from the Caucasus. By the way, this map below is probably an example of how these ancient stories have conditioned our 'schienthific' perspective and have been removed afterwards to give more credibility to the narrative and/or modify it.

View attachment 23787​

Scitia​

I tried that a few days ago. But it's hard to do on the phone (match mountains and rivers; no trust in names, as they're easy to change). According to my observations, it is very difficult to compare the current relief with what is shown on the map.

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Here is a fairly accurate match (in my opinion):

You can see how the rivers were renamed or how the Pechora (for example) was changed. Assuming that the original historical map is correct.​

The intersection of the Pechora and Izhma (+Usa).

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I have come across information (this is a respected blogger on tart-aria.info; I have not found other sources; so one should be careful with the information) where the Great Tumen is compared to Yekaterinburg (on the Iset River). If this is true, then the top river (above) is the Tura or Tavda (hard to understand from this map).

I do not see (more precisely, can not reliably determine) on this map the place where the basins of the Volga (Kama, Chusovaya, Belaya) and Ob (Irtysh, Tobol, Tura, Iset, Miass) intersect. Therefore, it is difficult to say anything.

Now it looks like this:

The watershed of the basins is highlighted in yellow (excluding Tobol river).​

Unfortunately, I don't have a better visual photo (since I didn't take many screenshots; and my computer and hard drive are lost).

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Map showing the rivers (without mountains) of Russia (let it be here, just in case).

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If you look at the Vychegda River, the town of Kondori is the approximate location of Troitsko-Pechorsk or Komsomolsk-on-Pechora (rus).

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It is possible that Kargapole is located correctly and roughly coincides with the modern city Kargopol.

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Also, it seems to me that Viburg on the map does not correspond to modern Vyborg. But it looks like modern St. Petersburg (there is also a lake nearby). But this is hypothetical, of course.

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I found it curious that the town of Saint Michael is shown at the mouth of the Northern Dvina River. Approximately there, Arkhangelsk is located. I have a delusional theory that one of the images of Archangel Michael is Mikhail Lomonosov (he was the most prominent Russian scientist and chemist who contributed to almost every science; chem-mech or xem-mex and chim-mich or xim-mix and mach/mash-cham/sham; chemist/chimik - does mixing and/or something ingenious and inventive (mechanic); shaman - assembles the machines/mashiny; perhaps most people perceived mechanics as wizards/shamans). He is from those places. It seems to me at times that such a mark has been thrown into Russian culture (in general, I believe that the saints are the alchemical scientists of the ancient world, who laid the foundation of our civilization, based on the knowledge they received from the gods in the Arctic; and the mythology around them is only necessary to ensure that real alchemical knowledge is received by only those who seek alchemical knowledge). By alchemy I mean a complex science that operates with the real laws of nature and the universe (not those we are told are real). I think of it as the universal science from which all others have descended.

I have kept this map. When I get a computer, I will definitely take it apart, as this map is interesting to me (I also liked the map showing the Sahara with the mountains).

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Regarding languages. I think that before the supposed cataclysm (roughly 250-300 years ago) there was a single world culture. During the cataclysm, some people managed to escape in the bunkers of the mountains. Therefore, we observe language families that come from the mountains (apparently, they lived in the mountains for at least 50-100 years). After the cataclysm was over, people began to look for suitable places to live and there was a migration (to places where they could live). After a while, conditions in other parts of the world began to improve. People began to return to the old territories (colonization), where they met the descendants of people from the ancient world who had survived the cataclysm (either outside the mountain bunkers; or the bunkers were inoperable for a long time, so people had to go outside before they could live comfortably there), who had not been able to maintain developed social norms and technologies (plus they saw traces of adaptation to new conditions in people, which made people different).

This explains why in many cultures of the peoples of the world there are legends of the ark. Perhaps they are mountain bunkers that were located all over the earth.

By the way, my initial interest (one of) the rivers is specifically related to mountain bunkers. According to Ural legends and stories, old legendary peoples survived in the mountains, who hid in the mountains the treasures of the old world (before the Cataclysm). On guard of these riches are various heroes (Mistress of the Copper Mountain, the Great Poloz/Ratsnake, Griffins, etc.), who do not allow outsiders there. In our time, about these places (the mountains of the Urals and Altai) there are many rumors that there are military (mines of intercontinental missiles) and government bunkers.

 

[ViniB]

I thought about this thread to be something like this on purpose. People who actually don't care about history are going to be confused since here there is no narrative to follow and you are free to make up your mind with the content you read. I strongly invite you to try coming up with some idea out of your own experience/knowledge rather than following the next big trend. Cheers

What i got from all of the maps and narratives presented is, and if the narratives are true btw, the following:

Gods from multiple cultures decided to play war with humanity, together with prester john type characters (??????) That's my whole take at the moment. Honest to God here, it's all very confusing

 

[Deleted member 37]

I have come across information (this is a respected blogger on tart-aria.info; I have not found other sources; so one should be careful with the information) where the Great Tumen is compared to Yekaterinburg (on the Iset River). If this is true, then the top river (above) is the Tura or Tavda (hard to understand from this map).

Every time I look into maps of that time showing Sibir's location there's something not ok with the position given to it nowadays. I'm not going to post all the maps, but there's plenty of them. To summarize what I always see, I can say that Sibir is always represented on the West side of the Ob in its first section and NEVER on the Irtys river as commonly assumed.

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iseidon said:
in general, I believe that the saints are the alchemical scientists of the ancient world, who laid the foundation of our civilization, based on the knowledge they received from the gods in the Arctic; and the mythology around them is only necessary to ensure that real alchemical knowledge is received by only those who seek alchemical knowledge

Fomenko says the same when he thinks saints gave Dmitri Donskoi the first cannon to fight against the 'Tartars' (even if for him they were both Tartars aka Russians aka Slavs.........., LOL).
In any case you reminded me of a strange occurence in the text of the Alexiad. There Anna Komnene describes multiple sieges occured during her father's reign and she always uses certain terms: μηχανῶν (mechanon), generally translated as 'machines, engines' and ὀργάνων (organon), generally translated with 'siege-engines'.
Now it is hard to find a good definition for the word 'cannon'. They say it 'is derived from the Old Italian word cannone, meaning "large tube", which came from Latin canna, in turn originating from the Greek κάννα (kanna), "reed", and then generalised to mean any hollow tube-like object; cognate with Akkadian qanu(m) and Hebrew qāneh, "tube, reed"' (Cannon - Wikipedia).
But you can see that a cannon is in fact a machine, a me-channon. It seems more logical to me than saying it derives form Italian-Latin-Hebrew (very original as always) for 'tube. large tube'.
On the other hand we have the organ gun (Ribauldequin - Wikipedia), a siege weapon used in medieval warfare side by side with the cannon.
Apparently people already used cannons and organs before the invention of gunpowder but historians seem to ignore the simple fact that they used the same exact words for siege enginesof different epochs. Why did they do that and why historians don't seem to be bothered by that?
About the saints with double identities I suspect the same thing. I've so many times stumbled upon incomplete biographies of saints who magically had a secular namesake with a scientific background. The same can be said about political-religious institutions like the Senate-Sinedrion, the Pontifex Maximus-Pope and many more.

What i got from all of the maps and narratives presented is, and if the narratives are true btw

Bare in mind that you are probably not reading the truth from these maps. It was just another narrative and in fact our own modern narrative still derives from it without saying it explicitely. It seems historians crippled the old narrative(s) and then substituted the missing parts with 'schientific' explanations. I consider these maps as the missing legs and arms. It doesn't mean this narrative is true but is at least more complete.

 

[Deleted member 37]

Twenty-second map titled ‘Libia interiore’ by Stefano Bonsignori. This is his last map.

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The ancients called this Province (Provincia) inner Libya (Libia), which for many centuries was unknown even though inhabited since after the deluge, since here Dionysus (Dionisio) was nurished after his father Triton (Tritone) gave him to Queen Minerva (Regina Minerua) in order to guard him. She rejected men’s customs and wished her women to train in warfare and government, so that after many years Myrina (Mirina) defeated King Iarbas (Re Iarba) with her valiant army of women and occupied Mauritania and almost all of Africa (Affrica), and after making arrangements with Horus (Oro) king of Egypt (Egitto), she passed into Arabia, returning from where she was defeated and killed, and her Women (Donne) went back home and laid down their arms. After that, perhaps due to the eartquakes which made navigation impossible, or maybe because the inhabitants themselves refused to trade with strangers, it remained hidden for many centuries, until the Portuguese (Portoghesi) sailing along its shores discovered the land, and taking possession of various places they fortified and still own them. The ancients didn’t know about the Niger River (Fiume Negro) and they didn’t know how it flooded this Province the same way the Nile (Nilo) does with Egypt, and that its sources are in the same mountains from which the Nile is born, and that it makes this land very fertile.

We now know that Queen Minerva decides to get rid of patriarchy. Since Minerva is considered to be the Latin/Roman version of Athena and in the previous map we encountered a certain Pallas teaching warfare to the Lybians, we can infer that Minerva and Pallas are one and the same… even though I’m not sure, to be fair. In any case she takes control of the territory until what is probably one of her successors, Myrina (Mirina (mitologia) - Wikipedia – no english wiki at disposal), considered to be the Queen of the Amazons, conquers almost all of Africa (probably the middle to northern part of the modern African continent) until her death while returning from Arabia.
Alexander the Great and Genghis Khan were two half-asses compared to her!

Here it’s time to open a discussion though. Myrina is not the Queen of the Amazons, because the Amazons were mentioned in the map about Scythia. We also had in various maps a mention to the famous Prester John, which is also represented on various Asian maps somewhere beyond Muscovia. Africa also shares with the North the troglodytes (trolls, wildmen, cavemen) and many other legendary people not mentioned here but well known through various authors and maps.

My personal take is that we are facing a geographical duplication. My bias leads me to think that the original was the Northern one. What’s your take? Do you think it’s a duplication, or is it just a series of coincidences… or is it the Europeans who attached fancy stories to the parts of the world they didn’t know and therefore it’s all a big joke?

 

[Safranek]

The Scythians were Chamites and according to Moses whom I could not think more credible, the inhabitants of Africa. Their residence was Nubia and Abyssinia,

According to that book, the Scythians had their primary base in those lands and they were 'chased' (via war) out of those territories by Joshua (Josue), who possessed a huge formidable army, and they scattered in several directions of which account is given. (pg. 31 art. 34)

The Parthian Szittya Nation, which had lived for Valor and Glory, felt the terrible blow, the weight of God's wrath in its humiliation, and now had no choice but to abandon its homeland and retreat to Arabia and Egypt. The fertile Arabia on the side of the Red Sea is a refuge especially for Asian Magyars. Here the Philistaeus, i.e. Alenitic gulf, strikes; here Agra, Egra, that is: Magyarvár. Others seek refuge in Africa around Cyrenaica, and especially the people of Kádköz (ušoov Kačn) spread to Tanger, and there they built today's Cadix over time. They were so just towards the great deeds of the Victorious Leader that they are not ashamed to erect a pillar in Tangier with the inscription: "Running from our enemy Josue, we Hun Leaders made our abode here."​

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The Libia in that map is in a different location from the current Libya. You can see Sierra Lione which is the lower west coast of Africa.

 

[Dr.G.]

Referring to the "Twentieth map titled ‘La Schiavonia’ by Stefano Bonsignori", for those interested in the topic of "Greater Tartaria", this history on the map mentions the invasion by Slavonics into the Adriatic Sea, whose Slavonic alphabet was widely used by all peoples in what is considered by the author to be the lands of Tartaria. So, the Khan's Golden Army met the Pagans of Rome, and stayed.

 

[Deleted member 37]

Referring to the "Twentieth map titled ‘La Schiavonia’ by Stefano Bonsignori", for those interested in the topic of "Greater Tartaria", this history on the map mentions the invasion by Slavonics into the Adriatic Sea, whose Slavonic alphabet was widely used by all peoples in what is considered by the author to be the lands of Tartaria. So, the Khan's Golden Army met the Pagans of Rome, and stayed.

There is a translation under the map. The author, Bonsignori, doesn't mention Tartaria, Greater or Minor, on any of his maps. He locates some Tartars on his Scythian map but doesn't talk about them in the respective caption and neither of Khans and Golden Hordes.

 

[iseidon]

Interesting point. Apparently (if the map is to be believed), these islands (in modern form) appeared relatively recently. It is unlikely that they would not have noticed the missing (on the old map) islands (if these islands had them; those who provided data for the map), given that some islands are marked (perhaps the water level was higher in that area; only the high part of the islands was visible). Which suggests that someone was in those areas. And they would, unlikely, not have noticed other islands nearby (which are in the present tense).

Or, someone deliberately created such a marker to distract attention (which also cannot be ruled out).

But overall, this map looks very similar to what should be under the sand and at a higher water level (which was provided by water runoff from the mountains that are now under the sand; as a matter of conjecture). The mountains (which provided the water flow) were backfilled with sand. Therefore, there was a drop in the water level in the area.

Unlike Scythia, there is little distortion here, as the proximity to the equator (and distance from the poles) reduces distortion on a flat map by Mercator projection (and similar analogs).

That is why the map of Scythia (and other circumpolar areas) is so difficult to parse. Ideally (in my opinion) you need a detailed (modern) map with the azimuth projection, to be able to see the contours (as old cartographers saw them) and the outlines of the rivers and mountains. Then, there would be a better chance of seeing something.

 

[Dr.G.]

In reference to "La Germania" map. We notice the strange name for modern Denmark.
"Why Dacia? The background for a peculiar province name" (1957, 2012, via Centre for Dominican Studies of Dacia, jggj.dk/Dacia.htm) [archive.ph/ppNrU]

 

[Deleted member 37]

In reference to "La Germania" map. We notice the strange name for modern Denmark.

An interesting link. It seems the author has the usual problem of every modern historian, which is not citing the original sources.
And so history is silently rewritten by people who quotes other people who quotes other people. None of the medieval authors cited in the article has been quoted directly. You probably don't know what their literary works are called and where they are preserved. We don't even know if we have the originals (probably not) or copies or copies of copies.

That said the conclusion is always the same. In the middle ages people were ignorant but fortunately we have plenty of modern leftist historians who are not bothered to go and take a look at the origianl sources and when they do, they do it with the preconceived idea that those books were written by people with an IQ slightly above that of a chimpanzee.

So @Dr.G. (and by the way, you said "We notice" so I don't know how many Dr.Gees are out there), how do you feel about it? Do you think we should take these kind of summaries for granted or is it maybe better to do some research on your own to find new answers to old questions?

By the way, this article also shows their ignorance when saying "Back in the days of Christ, Dacia was the name of a country in central Eastern Europe, equal to present-day Hungary and the Romanian province of Transylvania."
No no my dear. The Romaioi, aka Byzantines still called Dacia with its name in full medieval times.

edit: here a link to Heinsohn research. He shows how according to stratigraphy the 'Roman Empire' ended in the 10th century AD, so in a time very close to the authors mentioned in the article ascribed to the 11th century (https://www.q-mag.org/_search.html?req=Heinsohn). Maybe they were not crazy.