SH Archive Tartarian Language and Alphabet

[Archive]

Note: This post was recovered from the Sh.org archive.
Username: Unkindled
Date: 2020-07-29 05:26:32
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When speaking of Japan, I would like to say that if there was to be admixture with the Tartarians, your best bet would be the Ainu, who occupy the northern most islands of Japan. Ainu is very distinct from other Japanese languages. Makes me think of the Takenouchi Manuscript, speaking of universal languages and cultures.

 

[Janusstark]

Also found this map from 1741 while I was looking at some old maps

The characters reproduced on the map (BTW , the title is "Europa poly-glotta, Africa poly-glotta scribendi modos gentium exhibens, Asia poly-glotta linguarum genealogiam, cum lit...." Hensel, Gottfried. Cartographer and you'll notice that on these maps, California IS CLEARLY AN ISLAND ON ITSELF ! ) under the mention "Characteres scytico-tartarici " (scythico-tartarian characters") are VERY SURPISINGLY the VERY same than tibetan Ume script !!! I say VERY surprisingly, because this region is pretty far from Himalaya and is not one we'd think about the cradle of tibetan language : it's the edge of the arctic seas ! That mean that "tibetan" language (or maybe Zhang Zhung language : see Siegbert Hummel on that : on the Zhang Zhung) was one of the languages in use inside the great tartarian confederation, along with kufic, slavonic, khitan, sanscrit, runic, tangut and mongolic languages and who knows how many others.

 

[Tapioca]

Kharosthi reminds me of Japanese

 

[Janusstark]

I draw your attention on this very interesting video, stating as I said about the link between Tangut/Manchu/ Tibetan/ Zang-Zhung (notice the swastika that the fourfold name "Muhammad" (Praised Be His Name) form, while Swastika is the very symbole of Yungdrung Bön, and Bön in general) and the olthers languages of Great Tartaria. I add a book on Him.

I re-post a refernce to "An Histori-Geographical Description of the north and eastern part of Europe and Asia" by Philipp Johann von Strahlenberg in 1736.
I draw here the very interesting On Zhang Zhung by Hummel (see attachments) along with this from the Old SH : "Tartaria" is a myth and didn't exist
Also, I bring back this post of mine : Arabic writings on Russian and European crowns.

 

[Tapioca]

This is a great text @Janusstark
Here are the parts that stand out to me:

ZHANG-ZHUNG, STAG-GZIG

Bon texts, handed down to us in Tibetan translations, were stated to be originally written in the language of Zhang-zhung, but almost nothing remained of this original language, apart from the book titles and a few Zhang-zhung terms in the texts. This gave rise to a still ongoing dispute about whether this was a real language, or just a fabrication. By contrast the location of sTag-gzig remains mysterious, and the name has even taken on the mythical connotation of a promised holy land, similar to the Sharnbhala of the Buddhist world.
The country of Zhang-zhung probably consisted of a confederacy of several western, northern, and north-eastern Tibetan tribes, all of related ethnic stock, which was already in existence before the rise of the Central Tibetan monarchy. Thus, the name sTag-gzig does not just refer to Persia or to the regions on the fringe of western Tibet.

CONNECTION TO OLD CANARIAN, ETRUSCAN, MONGOLIAN

"According to J.-H. Scharf the prefixes ta-,ti-, to- belong to the oldest linguistic heritage of mankind, and would thus represent so-called larnbdacisms. We find the same prefixes, inter alia, in Old Canarian (ti- with the meaning of an article); compare also ta in Etruscan as a demonstrative pronoun and definite article (possibly also & with a demonstrative function). The -ta used for noun forming is also to be found as a suffix in Etruscan and in Mongolian. " The rapid disappearance of Etruscan is also reminiscent of the fate of the Zhang-zhung language. Probably both languages were spoken by a foreign element of the population which actually carried the culture, but was numerically insignificant. The same situation existed in the Meroitic language, spoken by a foreign ethnic minority as a result of treason).

ZHANG ZHUNG’S SIMILARITY TO SUMERIAN, EGYPTIAN, CANARIAN, ETRUSCAN, BASQUE, MONGOLIAN

1. The peculiar formation of numerals in Sumerian, Egyptian and old Canarian
2. The prefix a- as in Sumerian -a, -e as nominal particle:' cp. the prefix a- as article and demonstrative in old Canarian.
3. The prefix ta-, probably as definite article old Canarian -ta, -tu, -to (definite article, demonstrative, nominal particle) Mong. -ta [as lta, mta] (nominative particle -1, -m, with -ta), Etruscan -ta (definite article, nominal particle). Prefixes can become suffixes with the same meaning, like Canarian ta- to -ta-.
4. The prefix ti- probably indicates nominalization, like ti- in old Canarian, besides -ta- and -ta- . . . -te- (noun formation).
5. The suffix -to as nominative particle has old Canarian and Basque parallels (-te).
6. The genitive particle ni, Etr. in, old Canarian -n, -en, Mong. -in (connected with the personal pronoun for the 3rd person, cp. Sumerian -ne, -ni, Arabic -in also dative and ablative as in Etruscan, old Egyptian -n).
7. For the dative-terminative particle la we have Sumerian -ra, -re, -ri, Basque -ra (Canarian for building the possessive, e.g. i = 'you', ire = 'your'); la is also ablative in Etruscan and old Canarian (-ra), Tib. -nc.
8. For ta- as collective noun we have Sumerian -da (= 'all' = gu, Sum. = gu). To the lexical examples given for the [Ural-IAltaic substratum and to the probably pseudo-Mediterranean roots gl, gr, kr, belonging to the Ural-Altaic substratum, we could add Sumerian kurkur ('circle') and the word for 'dog', Zhang-zhung ku[-ra], Chin. kou, Na-khi 2k'o, Canarian cuna, Greek ~&\jov, Lat. canis.
Sumerian Canarian and Zhang-zhung could be for instance
Sumerian lilii = Zhang-zhung li ('wind', Sum. lil = 'air');
Sumerian tag = Zhang-zhung bteg ('to throw');
Sumerian Sa = Zhang-zhung she ('heart');
Sumerian ka = Zhang-zhung khag (Tib. kha = 'mouth');
Sumerian bad ('to open') = Zhang-zhung rbad (Tib. gcod = 'to cut up, tear apart');
Sumerian zu ('knowing'), San ('wise') = Zhang-zhung shen ('to know');
Sumerian ag ('give orders') = Zhang-zhung ag ('to speak', Tib. ngag);
Canarian guaire = Zhang-zhung wer ('ruler').
The [Ural-] Altaic substratum can also throw light on the formation of Mongolian zla (= Zhangzhung 'moon') we have Mong. Sam, Canarian sel; for Sumerian dingir ('sky, god'), Mong. tengri; for Canarian era ('man, hero'), Mong. ere.

THE SONGS OF THE UNHAPPY QUEEN SADMARKAR

FIRST
Queen Sad-mar-kar, dejected by her jealousy of her reportedly unfaithful husband Lig-mi-rhyaI4 and tormented by the longing for her Tibetan homeland, cannot bear any longer the inhospitality. The Songs of the Unhappy Queen Sad- pitiable conditions in her new, foreign environment. Full of scorn and disillusionment, she reports this to her brother. How faithful her description of the facts is we do not know.
SECOND
In this song Sad-mar-kar recalls the history of the conquests when the Tibetan state was being set up, concealed in the metaphor of hunting the wild yak, and urges the Tibetan king to attack Zhang-zhung in the same way and to overthrow Lig-mirhya, which in the end is successfully achieved through the complete annexation of Zhang-zhung by the Tibetans. The upheavals against the Tibetan rtgime in the years 644 and 677. Zhang-zhung was annihilated by treason.
THIRD
The instructions on fishing given by Sad-mar-kar, just like the dead fish, are a figure of speech for the strategy to be adopted in the fight she invokes against the king of Zhang-zhung and for Lig-mi-rhya, lying on the ground wounded to death and vanquished by the Tibetans. The song is a variant on the content of Song 2, which was about hunting the wild yak. Song 3 is about the rapidity of the action and about the defensive measures to be taken against the assailants. The dead fish represents then overthrown king of Zhang-zhung. Song 1 was more concerned with the tactical aspects.
FOURTH
Sad-mar-kar comes back to considerations about her lost former status, melancholically recalling old familiar wanderings in her Tibetan homeland in the days of her youth. As in the first song, she wants to prompt the spirits to free her from her humiliating state of abandon and to take her back home.

 

[Janusstark]

This is a great text @Janusstark
Here are the parts that stand out to me:

ZHANG-ZHUNG, STAG-GZIG


CONNECTION TO OLD CANARIAN, ETRUSCAN, MONGOLIAN


ZHANG ZHUNG’S SIMILARITY TO SUMERIAN, EGYPTIAN, CANARIAN, ETRUSCAN, BASQUE, MONGOLIAN


THE SONGS OF THE UNHAPPY QUEEN SADMARKAR

View attachment 32955

VERY GOOD POINTS ! Thank you a hundred times, Tapioca, for noticing this pearl of a text I wanted to show here ! At last, it finds its ways to someone !

According to me, Zhang Zhung was a name for some ancient part of Tartaria , Royal Tibet was a vassal of ; a little bit like Rus'/Rosh was part of Muscovy which itself was a vassal of Sibiria/Great Tartaria (Sibir was once the capital city of Tartaria, then Tobolsk/Tubal, only after, it came that Rus'/Rosh took over Meshek/Mesec/Moscow : Moscow was called Meshek/Mesec in the indigenous Tartar language, i.e. in Kufic. Thta'ts the reason why Bonaparte attacked Moscow and didn't even care about St Petersburg where the German Romanov Tsar was seated at the time of this invasion : his real foe (their real foe ?) was the remnant of Tartarian Mesec/Moskow still under the Tartars !!! You still can find , just on the other side of the red place , front the Kremlin / Krom/Qorom/ Qorum (like in Karakorum = mighty/black fortress : in Tartaria, black was equivalent to mighty too) a very protected sectir called "the Khitaï-Gorod " , sign of the presence of Sino-Tartars or khitans in Moskow before German uusrper Romanovs took it ! As much as the Meshec/ Mesec/Moscow Tartar has disappeared from the books, this one has remained known as a conquest of the Romanovs in the 19th century (1868).
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_lDRlQM8aw
.).

The video in a previous post (just above ) is about old world and post-reset kufic/arabic and connection with Phœnician, Etruscan,Greek, etc.. Thanks to Hummel, we now can add Mongolian/Tangut /Mandchu and tibetan wich is consistent with my hypothesis that the fate of Zhang Zhung is an echo (in the Fomenkoian sense of the term) of the one of Tartatria/Scythia ! Good thing is that Zhang Zhung has not completely disappeared , as long as one is willing to take an open-minded look at the antediluvian literature of the Bön (Yungrung).

 

[Tapioca]

I psoted a video about old world and postreset kufic/arabic and connexction with Phœnician, Etruscan,Greek.

Can you respost or send a link please?

What gets me in that text is the connection to Summerian!

I am starting to read the one of the other texts but it is quite long

 

[Janusstark]

Can you respost or send a link please?

What gets me in that text is the connection to Summerian!

I am starting to read the one of the other texts but it is quite long

Of course : here it is :
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFLdqFWmktg
(don't worry : I'm editing a very complete post : you'll see : It will appear above)

 

[Janusstark]

A number of contemporary researchers ("In Search of Zhang Zhung"—Film Screening | CyberSangha) such as Charles Ramble, Khenpo Gelek Jinpa (Hidden Treasure Of Bön Secrets of Mustang | Hidden Treasure Of Bön Secrets of Mustang This film maps a journey made by Geshe Gelek Jinpa, a Bönpo Geshe (Doctor of Religious Philosophy) researching... | By The call of mountains | Facebook), Dmitri Ermakov and John Vincent Belezza (About the Author | Tibet Archaeology) are working on this issue, with major philological and archaeological discoveries in the field. If you are interested, you should know that a conference will be held this year in Blou, France, at the Shenten Bön Studies Centre : 13-16 August 2025 7th International Conference on Bön Studies / Various speakers (including online : Yungrung Bön Buddhist Temple). This will be an opportunity to hear first-hand about the state of research into little-known subjects.

In the attached book ‘The Many Faces of King Gesar' (for all attachments, see the post above) ; Tibetan and Central Asian Studies edited by Matthew T. Kapstein, Charles Ramble , the chapter ‘Can Culture Transcend Religion? The Muslim Bards of Baltistan (p. 135 and next) by Estelle Dryland will be of great interest. Indeed, Baltistan harbours a Muslim culture lived in Arabic and Tibetan. I state that this territory between Pakistan and Gilgit is a conservatory of the particular history that brought us here, namely the linguistic, ethnic and religious interoperability in the vast Tartar space - from northern Scythia to Himalayas, Americas, Africa and Oceania (dare we mention too the ‘forgotten’ continents of Lemuria and Atlantis, Terravista, Lacach and Tierra del Fuego, to name but a few?) ! Dmitri Ermakov's BO and BÖN give an in-depth insight on the subject of ancient (almost) erased but still very much alive civilization (see attachments). Good reads !

 

[Tapioca]

I already got the texts mixed up . One of them has cures for insanity and a barren woman. They both include stabbing the person with a "phurpa." Here is one and that happy fellow is Khyung Mar a Red Garuda a healing deity.



Stab Stab Stab is the cure

 

[Janusstark]

I already got the texts mixed up . One of them has cures for insanity and a barren woman. They both include stabbing the person with a "phurpa." Here is one and that happy fellow is Khyung Mar a Red Garuda a healing deity.

View attachment 32962View attachment 32963

Stab Stab Stab is the cure

Ahaha. Yeah well , don't take these too litterally (obviously). Buddhism or Bön exclude murder, at least, the common type: these artefacts (a bit scarry somehow) are part of a complex iconographic system that emphases the destruction of ego (not life, for sake!)— meaning above all, the LIBERATION OF CONFUSION, ANGER AND DESIRE/AVIDITY INTO THE CLEAR EMPTY NATURE OF PHENOMENA AS CLEAR EMPTY NATURE THEMSELVES AND NOT OBSCURATIONS. This is not about killing a person !

IN PARTICULAR, Phurba is not to be mistaken for an actual sacrificial dagger of some sort, unless if one is a witch. Many people made this very heavy mistake, though.

Sorry I didn't warn you about the crude, let's say, aspects of tantric iconography in certain of this esoteric contents. I forgiot I was revealing them to a profane public. Anyway knowledge is for everybody ! But, maybe do you already know how to avoid those mistakes…

If you look at Khyung/Garuda, you'll notice snakes that are under his control. These are representation of naga energies, which can be understood as chtonian, telleric, aquatic or even magnetic forces/entities. raging fire here means incandescent wisdom, not soem kind of californian event, wings symboblize the wide reach of primordial presence, Phurba is the ultimate (and compassionate) control on the three venenous emotions.

These are coded images. The text are in the same vein, sometimes even more difficult to understand if one is not correctly intructed. But I should say that this is the case for any advanced knowledge. I hope these few late disclaimer will help to not mistake this very ancient and preciious doctrine with the canonic and proverbial obscurity of our interpretations in our unfortunate epoch.

It turns out that this is not only extremely advanced, but also particularly old, so that certain antediluvian details escape us. All the more reason not to get lost in what we have left. When it comes to these concepts, curiosity and well-informed exegesis are essential. If you have any misgivings or doubts, it is always best to consult a specialist, who will be able to clarify the essentials. That is humbly what I am trying to do here, even not being such a specialist. Please, Tapioca, don't misuse these contents, even if you don't understand it very well, because I've shared it here to inspire and not to mislead. Don't hesitate to ask me questions: I'll be happy to try and answer them.

 

[Tapioca]

Please, Tapioca, don't misuse these contents, even if you don't understand it very well, because I've shared it here to inspire and not to mislead. Don't hesitate to ask me questions: I'll be happy to try and answer them.

Seeing the knife and instruction to "stab" makes me think it is literal. I am no scholar but I enjoy reading these texts and admit I can only see the face value

 

[Janusstark]

I already got the texts mixed up . One of them has cures for insanity and a barren woman. They both include stabbing the person with a "phurpa." Here is one and that happy fellow is Khyung Mar a Red Garuda a healing deity.

View attachment 32962View attachment 32963

Stab Stab Stab is the cure

NOW, it seems that phurbas , vajras, wheels and many other sort of artifacts could have been certain kind of energetic weapons in the ancient antediluvian world. They still are considered active today. So that would mean that they allow the taming of unbalanced etheric energies - what emotions and certains aspects of the conventionnal reality are.

 

[Janusstark]

Seeing the knife and instruction to "stab" makes me think it is literal. I am no scholar but I enjoy reading these texts and admit I can only see the face value

This is because you think that the only thing that can be "stabbed" is the flesh. That's the huge difference between our material world and ancient world conception. There is a tibetology for a reason : these aspoects are very subtil to apprehend with our mindset : some of these instructions are 18000 years old ! Can you imagine how people used to think at that time ?


Stab stab stab the ego is the cure !-)

 

[Tapioca]

Can you explain this Mohammed picture? It looks like a microchip.

 

[Janusstark]

Can you explain this Mohammed picture? It looks like a microchip.

Of course !
This drawing represents the quadruple repetition of the word ‘Muhammad’ in square Kufic script. This motif is often used in classical Muslim architecture, particularly on ornamental faience. It is also a devotional seal. Kufic is the language in which the Holy Q'ran was originally written, Arabic only appearing later. In the video I've shared, the surprising depiction of a swastika at the very centre of this seal is rightly pointed out. Hence my mention of the Yungdrung Bön or Bön swastika tradition. This type of swastika, enhanced by the four dots in the hollow of the swastika branches, is also abundantly represented in Buddhist or Hindu iconography. Here again, it is important not to confuse this sacred symbol, shared by a plethora of vernacular cultures around the world, with a symbol that has been hijacked by a certain mortifying ideology. But we are in good company.

 

[Janusstark]

There are several kufic graphics, all recognisable by their geometric appearance. I believe I enclosed a sumptuous book the other day on the devotional practices associated with the name of the Prophet of Islam: ‘AND MUHAMMAD IS HIS MESSENGER ; The Veneration of the Prophet in Islamic Piety’.

The same seal as the one I posted is found at the end of chapter six: ‘THE NAMES OF THE PROPHET’: ‘The veneration of the Prophet's name has influenced numerous aspects of Islamic culture. The peculiarities of the Arabic alphabet allow calligra-phers to write it not only in elegant cursive forms but (even more often) in square Kufi, so that it can be featured on tiles and brick walls and in embroideries and weaving (often along with Allāh and, in Shia circles, with Alt).’

In 638, the city of Kufa in Iraq, which gave rise to the style derived from its name (Kufic style), was founded.
The economic and intellectual development of the city gave a boost to the nascent calligraphy. Despite the importance of this movement, the oral tradition continued, including the transmission of the divine word. However, as a result of wars, old age and the disappearance of those who held the memory of this sacred word, the project of collecting the Holy Q'ran and putting it in writing was born.

Calligraphers divide the kufic style into 2 types: the kufic of books (manuscript) and the kufic of monuments. These 2 groups are themselves divided into different variants. Generally speaking, the kufic of handwritten books is calligraphed freehand using a calamus. Whereas the kufic found on buildings is drawn on paper and then transferred to the support. It is then carved or engraved in stone, wood, etc.

From one monument to another, the kufic varies and is represented, for example, as floral (= floral kufi), woven or geometric. The floral koufi evokes plants and their stems intertwining between the empty spaces left by the letters. As the name suggests, the letters of woven kufi cross at one or more points. Finally, geometric or square kufi is drawn rather than calligraphed with a calamus. This is a very special style, based on geometric rules. It is made up of straight lines of the same thickness, and does not have smooth lines like the Thuluth style, for example. (= the thinnest parts of the letter, characteristic of Arabic calligraphy). It's in this style that we could classify the motif you're asking about. All the letters are simplified. This square style has enabled calligraphy to be adapted. All the letters are simplified. This square style has enabled calligraphy to be adapted. It was only later that the kufic style was supplanted by the Nashki style.

A Sufi would join me in raving about the secret kinship between traditions and languages, from one end of the East to the other and far beyond, from Islam to Bön and beyond !

 

[Tapioca]

Of course : here it is :
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFLdqFWmktg
(don't worry : I'm editing a very complete post : you'll see : It will appear above)

I stopped watching this video after about 30 minutes. IMHO the narrator's intent is to erase Jews as a legitimate separate religion and people from Islam and Arabs.

First:
The narrator points out the historical discrepancies (clothing, Arabic like writing) in the paintings. The painters are reflecting their current conditions into the paintings. This is also seen when Jesus is depicted as a white man with blondish hair, darker skin with black hair, a man with a perm, etc.

Europe was introduced to Islam and depicted middle eastern themes in their art. Back then, they did not have contact with other cultures and went by stories others told. Islam uses a crescent therefore crescents are in the paintings. They wore red, everyone wore red.

The narrator talks about the timeline CE, BCE, AD, etc. He says the 16th century began an accurate timeline. The timeline is certainly not what we are told, so how can we really date the paintings? For that reason, IMHO, whatever year it is we are told doesn't matter too much. It is pointed out scholars tell falsehoods anyway!

 

[Tapioca]

Second:
I would like to see the reference for Elazar bin Yehuda saying he used Arabic to invent Hebrew. The semetic languages were developed in the same area so of course they shared some vocabulary.

Hebrews had their own language from antiquity. It was preserved in the written form and called the ancient version is called Paleo-Hebrew. This form of writing developed over 2000+ years and led to modern Hebrew.

Third:
Of course Jews in Arab countries spoke Arabic!
Did Jews in Europe speak Arabic? No.

BTW Timestamp 12:40 has the masonic double headed eagle in the background.

 

[Tapioca]

A Sufi would join me in raving about the secret kinship between traditions and languages, from one end of the East to the other and far beyond, from Islam to Bön and beyond !

Can you tell more about this?